City Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening, everyone. It is 638, and I call this regular meeting of the Victoria City Council to order. Please join us in the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the flag for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. The first item on our agenda this evening is announcements. In announcements this evening, I want to begin by thanking all of our volunteers and those who participated in our volunteer appreciation night earlier this evening at the Lions Pavilion. Our volunteers play an invaluable role in making Victoria the special community it is. Whether serving on advisory committees, assisting with community events, supporting our parks and trails, helping with beautification efforts, or contributing in countless other ways, volunteers give generously of their time, talents, and expertise to strengthen our community. Their commitment and willingness to serve makes a meaningful difference in the lives of our residents, and it helps us advance many of the goals and initiatives that would not be possible without their support. On behalf of the city council and staff, we want to thank all of those volunteers. We're grateful for their service, and we're proud to have such engaged and caring community members. In other announcements, we'll be kicking off our 2027 budget discussion on Monday, June 22nd at 5 p.m. during our city council workshop. Council will be reviewing and discussing preliminary 2027 budget and levy projections. On Wednesday, June 10th, will be our first Classic Car Night event of the season from 5 to 8 p.m. right here in downtown Victoria. The event will include a concert in Bayfront Park by the Johnny Holm Band, and we hope to see everyone there. As a reminder, city offices will be closed on Friday, June 19th, in observance of Juneteenth. City offices will resume normal hours on Monday, June 22nd. We also would like to remind everyone that all meetings of the city council, including workshops, are open to the public and held in council chambers at city hall unless otherwise noted. We encourage anyone wanting to attend our council meetings or workshops in person to contact our city clerk in advance. That concludes the announcements for this evening. The next order of business is to adopt the final agenda. Council, can I get a motion to adopt the final agenda?

Motion to adopt the final agenda.

We have a motion. Can I get a second?

Second.

We have a motion and a second. All in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Motion carries. We'll move on to our next item, which is the open forum. This is the opportunity for anyone to address the council. on an item that is not on the agenda and not in an application form that will be coming to the council at a future date. We do have three individuals who have registered to speak in advance. First up is Mr. Carl Runk, who would like to give us an update on construction progress in downtown West. Mr. Runk, welcome.

Hi, Mayor and members of the council. Brian and Did we have the slides here? So we were in front of you giving a construction update a few months ago and we thought it'd be timely to give another update with we're at right now with Moving into the utilities and joining me is Andrew McGinnis, by the way the project manager on the construction side But when the the sales center, which is also being built there opens in July be prior to that I'd love to invite you all To come see that and walk the progress with us. So I'll turn it over to Andrew. Oh

Welcome, Mr. McGinnis.

All right. Good evening. As Carl said, Andrew McGinnis with SW Group, SW Builders Project Manager for Victoria Downtown West. You can see here on our first slide, this is one of our newest renderings of Main Street with the retail. kind of block city with the parking lot as well, if you go to the next slide. So this was a photo that we showed in February. This was taken in late November. We mobilized onsite in middle of December. If you go to the next slide, you'll see a dramatic difference in scenery here. You can kinda see there's Steiger Lake Lane, there's the off ramp from five that's now been removed. This was taken just over a month ago. To date, our masquerading is complete. We've ran utilities from Steiger Lake Lane down to the west. You can kinda see that dark patch on the southeast corner. And then we're moving our way into the parking lot. All five retail buildings on the south side in our first phase are completed to grade to date, ready for vertical construction. We're just waiting for final design for the civil drawings that we've incorporated minor changes for our retail buildings. We're supposed to get our retail permit drawings either today or tomorrow and we'll be submitting those. It's crucial for the development team to get these buildings active to help drive the development, so we're working hard with the city officials to push this through for permit processes. If you go to the next slide, there's some granular photos. It's a little hard to see from here, but on the top left side, we're standing on Steiger Lake Lane looking westward. The Dairy Queen site is in the far back side, but that's Main Street, there's two retail pads on either side The top right corner is continuing down Main Street to the parking lot Bottom left corner. You'll see the parking lot and that big stack of soil there is for the underground storm retention system and then the bottom right corner is just a final shot of the parking lot and If you go to the next slide, this is showing our revised phasing. We're really, again, focusing on the retail component with phase 1.1 in the bottom right, continuing our utilities and infrastructure to the southwest, phase 1.2, and then focusing on phase two, which is being driven by presales. So if you go to our next slide, speaking of pre-sales, these are a few renderings capturing the intent, the design of the sales center. And the purpose of building this temporary structure is to give buyers and potential clients tactile feel, showing the level of finish that were constructed within the units. So just a couple of shots of a gallery, movie theater. going over the whole development, all the kitchen finishes, unique beam work, and then a studio for them to pick their finishes and selection packages within the units. Go to the next slide. This is taken earlier this morning. We're trying to freshen up the exterior with landscaping. You can see the sales gallery in the top right corner. Then cabinets got delivered late last week, and then tiles being installed in the mock bathroom. So with that, I'll open up to the council if you guys have any questions.

Very good. Thank you, Mr. McInnis. Any questions or comments from council this evening? All right. Seeing none, thank you. We appreciate these updates.

They're helpful for us.

All right. Next up, we have Mr. William Lutz, who would like to speak regarding the Kelser Pond City-Owned Outlot Conservation Buffer Zone. Mr. Lutz, welcome.

Good evening, Mayor, council members. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. I live on Kelser Pond Drive. I've been a resident here since 1997 before Watermark was even developed. I'm here to talk about Kelser Pond. Specifically, I want to talk about the conservation buffer zone that is city-owned land around 90% of that pond. And this is my request. I would like to ask for attention and specifically action by the city to enforce the prohibitions that are to stop adjacent property owners from cutting and mowing and damaging and now spraying chemicals in the city-owned buffer lot. It's been going on ever since that property was developed. It's city-owned property and it's not a new problem. And it seems to me and many other residents that although the city will put out letters, that they will try some educational programs, every year the same people in the same location continue to cut, mow, spray, take down trees, and there are no consequences. No one's being required to replant. From what I understand, there have been no fines. There have been barely any visits or conversations with these people. We know the location. They are reported. I send videos. Just this weekend, what's the most recent example? Over Memorial Day weekend in the same southeast corner, a resident is out there with a gas-powered weed whacker cutting all the way to the shore in an area that's the size of a small lawn now. and then cutting a swath eight feet wide and 50 feet high all the way up to their own property. It's city owned land. It's not theirs. It's supposed to be protected. Just this last week, middle of the afternoon, another resident is out in that same area, spraying chemicals of some sort across that whole path, wearing a respirator type mask that you'd wear for COVID. So we're not talking about putting fragrance out there. It's troubling and curious why the city will not take steps with respect to these same individual property owners to enforce the rules. If someone were to come out here to Bayfront Park because they didn't like the trees and start whacking away at trees and cutting those down. Or if someone went to the rec center, an adjacent landowner, and said, I don't like the trees. I'm going to cut them down, the ones that are on city property. I dare say this city would be all over them. They'd be calling the sheriff. There would be an investigation. There'd be either civil trespass or criminal trespass or some type of activity. But why doesn't this happen here? It's not a new problem, but there is nothing new going on. It's not only damaging that buffer zone, but the purpose of that buffer zone is to protect the pond. We've got exploding growth of weeds in that pond. In these areas, you've got more runoff and now we've got a higher water table and both Travis and Watershed have been out there because of extensive erosion along the shoreline there. And I guess my point is, whatever the city's been doing so far, it's having no effect. The word gets out among the people who are doing this activity, the city's not going to do anything. Go ahead. Do it. I do it. You do it. Go ahead. And it's been going on forever and ever. And something needs to change. Some type of enforcement needs to happen. I ask the question, who's to solve this? I've talked with both Travis. I've talked with Jen. I talked with watershed. Watershed seems to point back here. Watershed says these are city owned out lots. We have an agreement at the time of development with the city as to what's allowed and what's not allowed. Watershed says we have no leverage against the individual property owners. So it's coming back to the city. Um, And when I speak with Travis and I speak with Jen with all respect and thanks for their work, I get the impression they need guidance from you. They need approval. They need guidance. They need the imprimatur that says it's time to take some enforcement actions. I don't speak for them. That's just the impression I got. But I think without guidance from all of you here on the council, this is not going to happen. Do we need an ordinance? Maybe five years ago in April, I sent an email to the council and to the people in planning with three examples from Minnesota cities of what type of ordinance would work. I don't know what's going on with it. Um, but I would say even without an ordinance, You've got basic trespass going on here at city property. You've got criminal damage to property. This is intentional. It's not by accident. And it's city-owned property. It's got restrictions on its use, but they're not being enforced. So I leave you with this question. What's the next step from the city? When will it happen? Who will be the people who are going to champion this effort? And in the meantime, What do we do? We do try and speak to the sheriff when this happens, but I get the impression they're feeling like they don't really know entirely what their role is, what to do. So I thank you all for the opportunity to speak, and I hope you'll understand I will offer assistance to any extent that I can. I've been here since 97. I was here when the property was platted, when it was developed. There used to be signs there. There aren't anymore. But I'm willing to help. So I hope I can offer that. And thank you all.

CHRISTIE WOODARD- Thank you, Mr. Lutz. Next up, I have Miss Jessica Hager, who would like to address the council this evening. Miss Hager, welcome.

Good evening, Mayor, members of the City Council. I'm Jessica Hager, and I'm running for Carver County Sheriff. I wanted to take the opportunity just to introduce myself to all of you and kind of let you know why I've made the decision to run for Sheriff and then to also provide my contact information. So one of the reasons I... decided to run for sheriff there are five of us running is I recognize that there are some significant changes needed in the sheriff's office and one of the things that I really want to do is improve the relationships with the cities it really should be a partnership between the cities in the sheriff's office when it comes to contract policing because truly at any point any city could say that they want to start their own police department and there are things that the sheriff's office can't do but there are a lot of things that can be done that aren't being done and to improve that relationship with the cities the other thing is obviously looking at employee retention and Hiring they're down It's not a definitive number but around 13 deputies and so I mean one of the things that you guys are having to share a town deputy with the city of Carver And so I don't know that that would change, but if we were up to full staff at the sheriff's office, would that change that Victoria could go back to having a 24-hour car? From what I've told, there's a minimum of seven deputies. That's the minimums that are required in the county. When you look at the fact that Chanhassen has two of those and that leaves five to cover the rest of the county, that seems a little sparse on what we're doing to make sure that our citizens are safe. The other thing is I want to improve our school safety. And so many people seem to think like, oh, we need to put an officer in the school to make our school safer. That's not the case. I started an SRO program from the ground up for the city of Hopkins with an extremely diverse amount of schools that ranged from Blake, which was a private school. I had Uba Medical Academy, which is a Somali program. Charter school I had the public schools I had the schools I had run the gamut of everything you could think of as far as schools go and I couldn't be there all the time But there were other things we could do to improve that school safety the other thing is looking at officer wellness and It goes beyond just doing a checkup from the neck up for our officers. There's so many other wellness aspects that an officer needs. Because there is a significant amount of stress on us, especially in today's world, the amount of stress that's on officers. Just the other day, a state trooper lieutenant committed suicide. We need to make sure that we're taking care of those officers who are here But so the biggest thing is though I just want to grow the partnerships I want it to be that we are working for you because truly the sheriff's office in a lot of regards is You were your customer right you guys are paying the sheriff's office to cover your cities Service that you need and that you deserve And so my contact information, if any of you want to reach out to me, if you'd like to have a further conversation, it's Hager, H-E-G-E-R, for, F-O-R, sheriff, at gmail.com. And do you guys have any questions for me at this time? Council, any questions for Ms. Hager? Seeing none, we wish you luck with your campaign. Thank you. And I would welcome any further conversation with any of you if you would like to do so.

Very good.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anyone else in the audience that would like to address the council on any item that is not on the agenda and not in application form that's coming to the council at a future date? Seeing no one, we'll move on to the next item on our agenda, which is the consent agenda. Items on the consent agenda are routine, administrative, and do not require deliberation or are housekeeping items that are required by law. They're approved with one vote unless someone requests an item to be considered separately. Ms. Hardy, does staff wish to pull any consent agenda items for separate discussion and vote this evening?

None from staff, Madam Mayor.

Is there a member of the council seeking to pull an item for separate discussion and vote? Or a member of the audience this evening? All right, seeing none, I will make a motion to approve the consent agenda.

Motion to approve the consent agenda. Second.

We have a motion and a second. All in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Motion carries.

Moving on to the regular agenda, the first item this evening is item 6.1, which is a public hearing regarding the renewal of on-sale intoxicating liquor and Sunday liquor license for Blue Agave Tacos and Tequila. Presenting on that item this evening is Assistant City Manager Alyssa Nelson. Miss Nelson, welcome.

Thank you, Mayor. Council members, happy to be here this evening. As the agenda report stated, yes, we are here to host a public hearing for a liquor license renewal. This probably looks familiar to you. We did host a number of liquor license renewals at our last meeting on May 11th. However, due to some problems Not necessarily pushback, but some forms that we were missing from the state. We were waiting for Blue Agave's liquor license application to come through, which is being presented to you this evening. With any liquor license applications that come before the council, we are required to host a public hearing by city ordinance. So that is the reason that we're also doing a public hearing regarding this. And as just a reminder, although you just went through this, our liquor license are held annually. So when we approve agaves, assuming that it passes all the rest of the application forms at the state of Minnesota after we approve this tonight, it will run from July 1st to June 30th, 2027.

Very good, thank you, Ms. Nelson. This is a public hearing, so I will now open the public hearing. If there's anyone in the audience that wishes to speak to this item, please step to the podium. Anybody wishing to speak to this item can approach the podium. And last call on the public hearing. Seeing no one, I will now close the public hearing and open the floor for council discussion. Council, any questions, comments on this item this evening? Pretty straightforward. At this point, I'll entertain a motion.

Motion to adopt the resolution approving a renewal of an on-sale intoxicating liquor and sundae licenses from Lugave Tacos and Tequila from July 1st, 2026 to June 30th, 2027.

Thank you, Council Member Reif. We have a motion. Can I get a second?

Second.

We have a motion and a second. All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. The next item on the agenda is the final plat and development agreement for the shores of Marsh Lake, second edition residential development. Presenting on this item this evening is City Planner Brian McCann. Mr. McCann, welcome. The floor is yours.

Thank you, Mayor and Council Members. I'll just jump right into it. So we have a final plat submittal and a development agreement for consideration by the City Council this evening. This slide here is just overarching our major subdivision or platting process. You are at the final step here where they get their final details of the development approved as well as the development agreement. So you may recall this is a residential development consisting of six single family lots. They are requesting that final plat and development agreement this evening, but the location and existing conditions, the property is part of a larger parcel here shown in the image on the left as well as a couple out lots and one undeveloped lot from the first phase of the Shores of Marsh Lake residential development. The site is intersected by County Road 43. It's also in close proximity to Marsh Lake Road and Marsh Lake. And then as I mentioned, we're talking about five new single family homes, and then they're just doing a simple lot line adjustment for that sixth lot, which was part of the first addition for the Shores of Marsh Lake just to the east. So here is the final plat that was submitted. You can see they have four lots on the south side of the cul-de-sac for Lakeside Drive, and then two lots on the north side. They also have three outlots proposed. The first outlot here consists of some stormwater area, some wetlands, and some preservation open space areas. Then outlot C here is future right of way for the future County Road 43 project. And then outlot B here is open space, which will be privately maintained by the local HOA out there. And then this is just to highlight all of the planned unit development regulations that were approved by the city council when they last saw this item at their meeting on April 13th. These are the deviations that were approved with that planned unit development matching almost exactly what was approved for the Shores of Marsh Lake first edition. So this will be one cohesive neighborhood out here. Then the city council also authorized submittal of a comprehensive plan amendment for this proposal to bring it into the 2021 to 2030 development decade. Right now it's in the 2031 to 2040 decade, so that required a minor amendment. It's still in review with... our adjacent jurisdiction, so we have to send out a notice to impacted jurisdictions such as the DNR, the county, places like that. They get 60 days to respond, so we're still waiting to hear from them. That ends this Friday. So after that, staff will submit the amendment to the Metropolitan Council for consideration. Until then, I do have a condition in the resolution for you this evening that we would need that approval before the final plaque could be fully issued. Then looking at landscaping and tree preservation, they are meeting all of our minimum requirements. They're exceeding the minimum 50% open space. They have at least three trees per single family lot. They also have boulevard trees placed every 45 feet and meeting our street tree standards. They also have buffer trees proposed for the north side adjacent to County Road 43 and Marsh Lake Road. And then they're only proposing 10% of the existing significant trees on this area. So they're in compliance with the tree preservation requirements. Then for streets, parking, and pedestrian connections, they are proposing that cul-de-sac, which is sized accordingly per our requirements, which would allow parking on both sides of the street. They are also proposing a 20-foot wide emergency access connection to County Road 43 as directed by the fire chief. It has been preliminary reviewed with Carver County and the Fire Chief, and they've both signed off on a grass pavement type of material, which is basically concrete spacers where grass is allowed to grow up in between it and make it look more natural as opposed to just straight pavement for the full emergency access. And then for parking requirements, our code requires two enclosed spaces per home. We anticipate that to be met based on all of the other homes in this neighborhood. Then for park dedication, I have a note here. We excluded one of the units since we already collected parkland dedication for that home that's getting the lot line adjustment from the first addition. So we're only calculating five new single family residences here. The calculation comes out to be a little less than a quarter acre or about $24,500. There is a private park out in this neighborhood already, so we anticipate that fee in lieu of land. Then for wetlands, stormwater management and utilities, it's subject to the MCWD's rules and regulations. They are working with MCWD currently and they are plotting wetlands and buffers within outlots as required by our code. And then they're proposing to extend utilities from Lakeside Drive all the way to the future county road line here for their right of way with the future Marsh Lake Road, County Road 43 project. So with that, I have some suggested conditions of approval. They're the same as the ones that are included in your packet. I've highlighted the first two here since they're more atypical than our standard ones. The first one being that we need that approval from the Metropolitan Council for the Comprehensive Plan Amendment. And then secondly, that we get written approval from Carver County. We've heard verbal approval from them, but we want to make sure we have that in writing before we fully approve that emergency access for the neighborhood. And then with that, I have two sample motions for you this evening. Staff can stand for questions, and I have a representative of the application in the audience as well.

Very good. Thank you. Mr. McCann. Okay. Council, any questions, comments on this? Final plat. All right, seeing none, I will entertain a motion.

Make a motion to adopt the resolution approving the final plat for the shores of Marsh Lake second addition.

We have a motion. Can I get a second?

Second.

We have a motion and a second. All in favor, signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Motion carries. And we need the second motion as well, correct? Correct. Council, I will entertain a motion.

Motion to approve the development agreement between the City of Victoria and Charles Cudd Co. for the Shores of Marsh Lake second addition.

Thank you, Council Member Roberts. Can I get a second?

Second.

We have a motion and a second. All in favor signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Motion carries. We are moving on to item 6.3. This is to consider a proposed noise ordinance amendment. Presenting on that item this evening is our Community and Economic Development Director, Jen Brewington. Ms. Brewington, whenever you are ready, welcome. Welcome.

Good evening, Mayor, members of the council. Tonight we're going to be talking about a proposed noise ordinance amendment. So just some background. City staff is currently evaluating potential amendments to Chapter 12, Article 2, Noise of the Victoria City Code. The review is intended to improve clarity, make enforcement more consistent, and address concerns related to late-night amplified outdoor music. The purpose of this ordinance update is to balance community events and business activities with the needs of nearby residents. The proposed changes are intended to protect public health and safety, reduce impact from late night amplified music, and create clear expectations for everyone. The goal is to support vibrant downtowns while maintaining a good quality of life for nearby residents as well. This proposal would establish a clear expectation that amplified outdoor music in the Central Business District ends at 10 p.m. Outdoor speakers, sound systems, and similar equipment would be included under this regulation. If a business, organization, property owner would like to have amplified music past that 10 p.m., they may apply for a temporary noise permit for City Council consideration. It is important to note that this proposed is focused on the CBD district and not intended to regulate any residential activities such as listening to music in a backyard. The temporary noise permit process provides flexibility for businesses, organizations, and community groups that would wanna host special events after that 10 p.m. timeframe. Rather than allowing extended hours automatically, each request is reviewed individually through a public process. This allows the city council to consider the details of the event, potential impacts on properties, any public feedback before making a decision, and that way the public knows when the events are being held. The goal is to support community events in downtown and balancing the noise. To request amplified outdoor music beyond 10 p.m., an applicant must submit a temporary noise permit application at least 45 days before the event. The application includes basic event information such as location, dates, hours, descriptions of the event, and any measures that may be taken to reduce any noise impacted by their event. An application is also required per event, and these requirements help ensure that the city has adequate time to review requests and to notify nearby property owners. Enforcement is simplified by establishing a clear 10 p.m. cutoff for amplified outdoor music, and if music continues beyond that time without an approved permit, law enforcement may issue a citation. Violations remain in a misdemeanor under city code, and citations may be issued to the property owner or manager depending on the circumstances. Many of our neighboring cities use a special event permit process to allow flexibility for special events that want to utilize amplified music past their time. Victoria's temporary noise permit process does follow a similar approach. They also have cut their music off at 10 p.m. like we're considering, and their fees are comparable to ours. Ours are, however, determined by our fee schedule each year. And I have a sample motion for you to review on the screen, and I'm here for any questions.

Very good, thank you so much. Council, questions?

When would this go into effect? Like today?

Correct. It goes into effect once it's approved.

As far as getting a temporary noise permit, is there a way to bundle? So I can say I want to go every Thursday, Friday, Saturday to 11 o'clock, pay $150 fee, and then cover myself for... three months after the 45 day window or not?

Council Member, no, not correct. They would have to go to a public hearing for each individual event and pay a fee for each eventable event as well.

Each event, meaning in that case, a Thursday night is one event. Correct.

Mayor, members of the council, just clarification. I just want to make sure that we're all clear on that. You can bundle, if you know all of your events for, let's say, the month of July, an applicant could bundle everything, uh, in one application. However, the public hearing would be noticed for each individual event that's happening and a fee would be collected. So if there are six events that are identified in the application, the public hearing would cover all six individual events and the applicant would be subject to paying a for each individual event.

So a fee of $150 in that case for six events.

$50, Mayor.

$50 for six events.

Times six, yes.

So $300 or whatever.

$50 per event, yes.

Okay. But they could do that at one bundling.

They can submit one application, but they would have to clearly identify in that application each event. The time that each event, so all the requirements for that, what we need to evaluate, what council would need to evaluate each event would be, they would have to provide all that information. So they don't have to have, let's say they're having six different events in the month of July, they don't need to submit six applications. One application, but all of the information for each event would be, be needed in order for you to evaluate that, and they would be subject to paying that fee.

And then is it one public hearing or six public hearings?

You would hold one public hearing that covers all of the individual. So your notice would notice the dates and the times and all the relevant information for each of those events that were part of that application.

And again, this would only be needed if it's going to go after 10 p.m.?

Correct.

Outdoors.

Mayor, members of the council, it's very similar to what the VBA does for the classic car show. Lumpset has one public hearing, lists out the dates.

Very good. Thank you.

I would say we may want to limit the amount of events that they can put on one application just from a standpoint of, one, they're going to pay the same amount no matter what, right? It's $50 per event. But also it gives us... more power to say if someone's not abiding by right because abiding by you know if we say they have to be done by 11 and they're going till midnight we want that ability to we've already done you know three months the whole summer like I'd rather do a month at a time and be like listen if you can't you know, abide by the 11 o'clock or whatever time they ask for, we're not going to approve those permits anymore. So I would like to, if possible, to say, like, you can't do, like, a whole summer in one application.

Which brings up the question about enforcement. What is the enforcement mechanism we have, and what are those? What are those, Ms. Hardy or Ms. Brewington? Ms. Brewington? All right.

miss hardy i can i can jump in i'll jump in here mayor members of the council yes the enforcement piece um so we have spoken with our our deputies and then our code enforcement office travis is also here today so i'll look to john and travis to jump in as well as needed so um the language that is being proposed is simply to prohibit outdoor amplified music after 10 p.m And so this would give the ability for our code enforcement officer or any deputy that observes any, hears any music or receives complaints of music that is outdoors and amplified to go in and say, essentially, this is not allowed. You got to shut it down. The penalty for doing that is a citation. And so that citation holds, uh, is a misdemeanor. Um, and so it would be, um, in the deputies, uh, purview to issue that citation.

Is there anything in this ordinance that allows us to, even though they may have permits that stretch into the future, is there anything in this that allows us to claw those back? Mr. Vost, do you want to take that one? Sure.

Yeah, Mayor and Council, sort of inherent in licensing or permitting, permitting is a kind of licensing, inherent in that is the ability to revoke or terminate permits you've already granted for noncompliance. I don't think we have language explicitly saying that in this provision, but that's just the general principle of permitting. You would want to, though, give any party that has the permit notice that you're going to consider doing that and the opportunity to come here and say why you shouldn't do that. But yes is the answer. The short answer is yes, you could revoke a permit for a clear violation.

Okay, very good. Thank you. Other questions, comments? Council Member Roberts?

We don't have any limit on how many they can do right now.

Yeah, Ms. Hardy. Mayor, members of the council, Council Member Roberts, right now, the way it's written, it would be open to council's discretion. In the staff report, it's noted, and so I don't have it up in front of me, but essentially... it would allow council to approve, approve with conditions, or deny. So it gives you flexibility. So if somebody is applying for the entire summer, you could approve it outright and go through a revocation process, as our city attorney just noted. as an option or it would be within your ability to say, we're going to see how this goes and you've applied for six, we're going to do three and have them come back.

So if they said July through September or whatever, we could just say, okay, we're approving July, but we're holding your application the rest of it August through September until you know, the end of July or whatever so that you have enough time to know.

You could certainly do that, council. Member Roberts, mayor, members of the council.

Yeah, mayor?

Yes.

If I can on that point, I agree with what your manager said. So it's impractical to write every administrative detail into an ordinance like this. You can appreciate, I mean, all these questions you've asked are great, you know, How many events can be included in a given permit? Is there a separate fee for each? Is there a separate hearing for each? These are all great questions. Some of that has to be left to the staff to administer, but clearly what they want to do is your will. They want to do what the council wants to see done. So as an example of that, I think I heard that you'd like to see the staff limit on the front end the number of events that can be applied for. You don't want somebody to be able to apply for 15 events from July until December. And I think staff can implement that. But I think it would be better to implement that on the front end. It's going to be a little uncomfortable. if the staff has said, sure, you can apply for eight events, and then that comes before you and you only want to grant three events, right? I mean, that's just awkward for everybody. So I think that feedback you're giving right now that you want to limit that is quite helpful. And that is my encouragement to staff is to hear that and let's limit the number that can be applied for based on what sounds like council consensus about that.

And I think it's helpful for the applicant, too, because they're not spending money on something that we're not going to.

and advertising for it or whatever.

Yeah. So how, I guess, you know, a little concern about our businesses currently though, right? So we're putting this into potentially policy today. So how does this work for, you know, we, you know, these businesses generally before today, right? We're having concerts when they wanted to. So how does, I guess, like we, I want us to be sensitive to that because it obviously we want our businesses to thrive and that's a, you know, good for attracting people in downtown. So how do we, you know, go about, you know, with the 45, was it 45 days, I think, right, window, that how do we go about making sure they're allowed to have their concerts still?

Ms. Brewington, please. Yeah, Council Member Roberts, thank you for that question. Well, as of now, the way everything is written, they are still supposed to play till 10, so those rules are in place right now, and our deputies are aware of that. I might have to look to legal on that, if we could change that 45 days, to let us review those quicker, but we might have to have a discussion on what that looks like for the next couple of months coming here. But I did talk to one of our business owners that is looking to have events, and they did submit an application today for the rest of the summer because they knew this 45-day was coming up. But I'm not quite sure if Bob has any comments on that. if we could change that.

Yeah, Mayor and Council, I have to confess, I don't know what the 45 days is. Remind me of what?

It's for permit review for the application. So that's kind of just our way of building in some time to make sure we've got enough time to do our process.

And the public hearing notices as well.

Yeah, so Mayor and Council, I mean, on those points, staff will laugh when they hear me say this, but I would always prefer that a code provision build in plenty of time for staff and Council to process these things. with the understanding that you would want your staff to bring these forward as fast as is reasonably possible. And I think that's the goal of staff. I mean, obviously, 45 days doesn't mean they have to wait for 45 days to decide. That just means we have 45 days. So if I'm understanding the 45 days correctly. Correct. Thank you. staff can always bring that forward as soon as it's convenient. And then the other thing I would just say is to give a little bit of comfort to bars in town that may have events lined up. I mean, I presume the staff's recommendation to you will be if there's evidence that they have literally contracted with somebody to do something, that we would give careful consideration to that where people have already made an investment in those things. Now, are they entitled to it because of that? No. But I'm sure that you're going to want to give fair consideration to folks that have made some plans already for a given date.

And in fairness again, right, they can have the concert from 7 to 10, right? We're just saying, you know, past 10 they need this permit. So they're still able to have the concert with whoever they contract with. It's just right now until they have their application approved, they're not supposed to go. Yeah, on 10.

It's already placed.

Thank you, Mayor, members of the council. Just another point of clarification. This only is regulating outdoor music.

That was the question I had. So if it's indoor with doors open, is that indoor or outdoor?

I'm going to, I would say that that's indoor. Yeah. That would be my interpretation.

Because the band is indoor or whoever's playing.

And then the other, and then that would kick in other provisions in your noise ordinance 50 feet from the the property measuring, so on and so forth.

Just to clarify, I didn't know how we...

I mean, we just need to bring back some acoustic music from 10 to midnight, right? I mean, then all would be solved.

Which is a really nice way for the rest of us to unwind anyway. Right, yes.

And Mayor and Council, just last, I'm talking more than I should, but clearly this is one of those examples of why you have a hard job, which is that you're trying to balance some important interests here of businesses that matter to you and residents that matter to you that are being bothered by noise. And I think you are, by having this conversation and having it so nicely, you're sending a message, right, to folks that this is a concern for the city and for the city council. And so if people can help accommodate that, then this just isn't a problem, right? So there is a message being sent to everybody here, I think, right now that this is an issue that's come to your attention.

And I do want to say, you know, thanks to the staff for your hard work on this ordinance. And, you know, we really do want to strike the right balance and we want to thread this needle very carefully to make sure that everybody's rights are being protected here. So yeah, Council Member Roberts.

Just a couple of follow-ups. So you said this citation would be a misdemeanor, right? So what would, like, I'm assuming there's a fine with that, right? Or is it, like, what do we know what that is?

Yeah, so Mayor and Council, I'm not a prosecutor, so I'm going to get the full expanse of what can happen. A misdemeanor is a criminal offense, and so there are the potential for jail time and there's potential for an extended amount of, a significant amount of money to be awarded. Ultimately, a judge decides that, and judges are not going to typically drop the hammer on the first offense. But, yeah, I mean, there's the potential that you would identify a manager who's responsible for this, and they could actually theoretically serve jail time. That is a possibility with a misdemeanor.

I'm assuming it escalates a little bit the more it happens. For sure. A judge that hears about this the third time is going to be less happy about it. Sure, for sure. And I think back to our conversation of, I don't know, the last meeting, right? We can kind of keep a book on this so that when it comes to liquor renewal time, we can use that at our, right? I mean, if they're not going by our, ordinances then like that can be kind of held against them.

Mayor and council just as I said with the permit itself the temporary noise permit that you know misbehavior could be held against that permit or even be used to revoke it the same is true with the liquor license itself so I mean all of the rules of a liquor licensee are brought to bear when you decide on issuing new licenses including noise related things. Very good.

Anything else, Council Member Roberts?

So I guess my only question would be, do we want to put a limit on this, or do we want to just say, right, like if they bring a full summer, which it sounds like we already have one, you know, that at that time will only maybe do, or I guess what other people's opinions on that are.

I think for me, it's, it's, it's, subjective, right? So, you know, can you have 20 events in a summer? And if you've got acoustic music going until 11 o'clock, that's very different than if you've got, you know, an electric guitar and somebody beating pretty hard on that and a set of drums. So I think there's, that for me, it makes it really uncomfortable to limit the number. I think I know we've had good conversations with some of our business owners and encouraged them to consider those things and be respectful of the neighbors. And, you know, I guess I would err on the side of human interest and say I don't know that we would limit it because we do have the opportunity to, you know, to revoke permitting if it's egregious and those kinds of things. So that would be my opinion. Other council members' thoughts? Council Member Patterson? I agree.

I don't want to limit it, and I just want to make sure that, I mean, it's going to be a pain for the businesses that have to do this, so I want to make sure it's as streamlined and as easy as possible, hence why I was saying let's make sure they can bundle them to a point. I think a monthly bundle is kind of maybe the right way to go with it. I'm just also a little bit concerned about, okay, we have 45 days to approve it. What does that mean for concerts that are going on Friday and Saturday this week or the Friday and Saturday next week?

I mean, that's...

They have to stop by 10. In five days, they have to get this approved or else they have to be done by 10 o'clock. I don't know if that's necessarily fair either. So those would be my two biggest concerns with it at this stage. I would say, you know, let's not put a limit on it. And then if we look down the road and we need to put a limit on it, then we cross that bridge when we have to.

Yeah. Yeah. And I, I guess I, I don't know if we know enough right now to put a limit on it up front, but I do, I think attorney voice mentioned we can, we can cross that bridge. I hate to say when we get there, but kind of keep an eye on that. The one thing I, and Council Member Pedersen just brought this up. I do this weekend events, next weekend events. It's a little bit unfair in my opinion. Is there a way to do like 30 days, and this goes into effect.

The only thing I would say is it's... Or is it 10 o'clock? We're actually just enforcing something that's already on the... They're supposed to be done at 10 o'clock the way it is, right? So we're just not giving out permits yet because we just made this. So they didn't have the ability... to do the 45 days before this weekend. But if without what we're doing tonight, they aren't supposed to do it past 10 o'clock. I mean, and that's part of the problem why we're doing this is because they're not following the rules that we have in place already. So Ms. Hardy, please.

Thank you, Mayor, members of the council. Just another point of clarification. So part of that 45-day review process also builds in time for us to do the public notice. So if they're going to be making a request for a temporary noise permit, that does require a public hearing. And we have to properly notice that. So with that public hearing, we need to collect the information We need to send that or mail that to properties within 350 feet of where that noise is going to occur. We need to post it in our official paper, and then we need to hold the public hearing. And so if this gets approved today, in order for that to happen, the soonest that we could hold a public hearing legally would be on July 13th. So what that would mean is that What that would mean is that the music, the outdoor amplified music between now and that time would need to be done at 10 p.m. It could move indoors.

It could go acoustic?

Sure, it could go acoustic. And then just another piece, another point of clarification is that our current ordinance is little clunky and difficult to enforce because music isn't outright prohibited at 10 p.m. the volume needs to decrease and so the way that we measure and determine if there's a violation is also difficult for us to do and so I This streamlines the process, makes it clear, makes it easy for us to enforce and make sure that both the businesses and the residents understand what those expectations are, but it also provides opportunity to balance all the things that you've talked about today balance the needs of both the businesses and the quality of life of the nearby residents by allowing there to be a public transparent process on the impact of what that requests for music beyond 10 p.m. is And that's that's a great point.

It's the awareness and the transparency of it really because I mean, I think it was measured in decibels. Is that correct?

That is correct.

Which is not easy to do, because somebody's measurement may be different than somebody else's or whatever. But I guess on the discussion, Chad, your point on the upfront I'm okay with that being take it as is and trying this with the new ordinance, enforceable ordinance. I'm not sure how we address the this weekend, next weekend type stuff completely for some of the near-term events. But if we're not really changing anything, we're just I don't know.

We're changing the enforceability.

Changing the enforceability, but not the time.

We're actually allowing for them to have an opportunity to go past 10 o'clock legally. Kind of helping them out in some ways. Yeah, true.

Real quick, Mayor and Members of the Council, on that 45-day piece, we could change that to 30 days because that is what our temporary event permit is. is temporary liquor license.

I like going down to 30 days. I think the, I mean, I think we can get our work done in 30 days and I think that doesn't feel quite so, like such a big hurdle for businesses. So I do like that 30 day.

Because how long is the notice for public hearing? Like how long do we have to do that before?

What's our, Ms. Hardy, what's our requirement?

I'm going to look at Alyssa. I think you can probably answer this better than I can. Ms. Nelson, please.

Council members, great question. So for our paper, we typically require for a public hearing notice about 10 days before the public hearing. So we still have, we have that deadline to meet. Our paper comes out on the Thursday. So if our Monday meeting, we have to go to the Thursday meeting. 10 days before Thursday. So roughly maybe 20 days, two weeks, a little more than that. That's just rough math. It really depends on what the calendar looks like.

All right. Council, any questions, other comments?

Just one kind of clarification.

Council Member Pedersen.

For the public hearing, that's city council, not planning commission, right? Yeah, mayor and council, that's correct.

Okay, thank you.

I'm just trying to come up with other ways where it might be faster.

All right. Council, any other questions, comments? Seeing none, I will entertain a motion.

Motion to adopt ordinance 474 MC amending chapter 12 environment article 12-2 noise section 12-21. Sorry, the noise is prohibited.

We have a motion. Can I get a second?

Second.

We have a motion and a second. All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Council, there are no more items on our regular agenda this evening, so we're moving on to reports and emerging issues. And Attorney Volz, you're up first. Anything from you this evening?

Well, Mayor and Council, I don't usually drag you back into the back room and tell you all about the legal stuff going on. It's been busy. I did want to just highlight one thing, though, that came up in public forum tonight. We're entering the campaign season, political season. I just want to acknowledge I talked to staff a little bit about your policy historically on allowing campaign statements at public forum. My understanding is you've allowed that and many, many cities do that. I think just the only advice I would give is that there are plenty of cities that just say our public forum is not a place for campaigning at all. We don't want anyone's statements. Of course, that would be permissible in my view, but clearly picking and choosing is not okay. You don't get to pick the folks that come. And if the policy is going to be to allow people, I would encourage you to sort of put some reasonable limits on the amount of time because things can get a little, you know, if you have five people waiting to talk about their campaign, it can take a lot of your time away from you.

Very good. Advice taken. Thank you, Attorney Vose. Ms. Hardy, anything from you this evening?

Thank you, Mayor, members of the council. I think Alyssa Nelson is going to share a little bit with us Council and everybody watching this evening about our new artwork.

Oh, very good. Miss Nelson, please.

Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Dana. Yes, we have new artwork in council chambers for those in the audience as well as those that are watching from home. If you're not familiar, we do have a rotating art gallery at City Hall Council Chambers. It is in partnership with Deb Zeller, a Victoria resident and also owner of Zeller Studios out of Hopkins. We are graciously, thankfully, brought variety of different art from Debs, oh my goodness, Debs rotating artwork at our gallery, and people are able to come visit City Hall during our open hours to come look at the artwork.

Very good, thank you. We have some beautiful summer and beach scenes up, so if you want to take a little stroll through the art here at City Hall, please feel free to do so. Thank you. Now we're up to reports and emerging issues from council members. Ms. Hardy, I do have something for you in reports and emerging issues relative to our open forum this evening. Our buffer zone and issues around the outlots and that sort of thing is something that has been a perennial problem, but I know we have done some things. Can you help remind council kind of the path we've gone down on this topic.

Certainly, Mayor, members of the council. Excellent question. And first of all, Mr. Lutz is still in the audience here this evening, so I just want to thank him personally for his engagement on this issue. You've been very instrumental in helping us with our outreach and our neighborhood engagement on this issue. So thank you for your passion and your dedication on that. Over the past several years and as he stated and you Many of you know that this is has been an ongoing issue. So we do agree on that and over the past several years staff have investigated Different concerns both raised by him and others in the neighborhood. We've worked with the watershed district. We do send out a letter annually every spring I believe that goes out just reminding the neighborhood about what those what the buffer is, what those requirements are. This year we stepped up our game with the encouragement of Mr. Lutz and held a neighborhood meeting for the Kaltopan neighborhood to address specifically these issues. So to educate people about what those buffer requirements are, why they're important, and our city staff are out there along with the watershed district. Um, I think they, we had pretty decent turnout and, um, and we look forward to doing that again in the future. Um, so we will continue to be committed to sending out those, those letters. Um, and, um, we're continuing to evaluate, um, how to, um, be more effective in that education and enforcement, especially as, um, there is neighborhood turnover. Um, We do continue to respond to an investigate every, um, every complaint that comes forward. We are complaint based. So we do have our code enforcement officer, Travis, who is the lead on that. Our deputies also cover, um, for us when those complaints come in outside of our regular business hours, such as on the weekends. And so all of that has, um, has, uh, been followed up on in some way, shape or form. There has been enforcement done in the past. So for example, fire pits and different things, landscaping that have been done, those things have been removed. We do follow up on those things. There also have been situations where we have allowed some maintenance work to happen in our outlot, but outside of the buffer area. And so there have been historically property owners who have gained permission from the city or the watershed to start to do that work in those outlets. And so one of the things that we are currently working with our GIS staff on is an interactive map to show where active permits are happening, not only in this area, but we would extend that to other outlets and buffer zones throughout the community. So that is something that came from this process and this engagement and something that we're actively working on.

Very good, thank you, Ms. Hardy. It was very helpful. All right, council, anything else from council in reports and emerging issues this evening? Councilmember Patterson.

Yeah, I just, I wanted to thank Mr. Lutz for coming. I think this is an issue that there's a lot of homeowners that jump onto city-owned property and start doing things to enhance their own yards, backyards, and everything else. And I know there's not a lot of teeth behind what we can do to try to stop them. I don't know if there's a huge legal or insurance risk that we have, but I do think it's something that's, I'm seeing more and more of it, and it's something that Today is probably not the time for the discussion, but I think it's something that we need to have, dig a little deeper into and explore more and come up with ways to enforce it better. That'd be my two cents on it.

Thank you, Council Member Pedersen. Right mayor. Yes.

Members of council. Sorry. I should add, um, I do want to acknowledge that we are the email that Mr. Lutz also, uh, noted that he had sent to city staff, uh, several years ago, he did send that to us again. Um, so I am in receipt of that and we've reviewed that. Um, I would note to council member Patterson's, um, point, as you all know, we are undertaking a very comprehensive. deep dive of all municipal and city municipal and zoning code. This is certainly language that it's very timely that this got resent, and I think there's some really good suggestions that might give some of that meat to some of our enforcement that's currently missing. And so staff briefly had a conversation this afternoon on some potential language that he shared with us this afternoon that could be incorporated into those future revisions that we're working on.

Very good, great, thank you. All right, council, anything else from council this evening? Council Member Wright, yes, please.

Just with everything going on in the neighborhoods, fiber and that season is picking up pretty quickly. I've heard a lot of comments around that and some of the comments I'm hearing are how long can these flags be in our yard and all these things. So I don't know if, Our city manager has any comment on that in general or anybody else, but I guess my Continue to reach out to us. I'll say that to the residents Have patience because we're I'm one of them that has this happen So just any comments you can share on the record about the timing of these things Thank You mayor members of the council excellent question and yes, there's a lot happening and

And Travis, who just stepped out, but is the lead here. And then Jen and Alyssa, also in the room, are very much involved in this process. So feel free to jump in as well. But there is an extensive review process. And as you know, being that these are utility companies and they're working within the right of way, there's not a lot of wiggle room for the city to deny their permits. So Um, that said, we are very closely monitoring the work that they're doing. Um, we recognize that the right away is, um, is congested and we recognize, uh, as we talked a little bit about last year, um, our city attorney had pointed out to us all that we're kind of in an unchartered territories with the interest in the number. of fiber companies that are wanting to install fiber in the ground in Victoria. So that is presenting a challenge for us and we're continuing to work through that. So what we've been trying to do is coordinate those activities and make sure that we have responsive teams and that we are holding them accountable to what they do what the permit requires them. So we are counting on our residents to be our eyes and ears. And so if something feels like it's taking too long or if something is not restored to your liking, we need to hear about that. We go out and look at that. We request that the company's project field superintendent go out and do that as well. And we have weekly meetings with all the project teams that there's field supervisors who are doing active work in the community reviewing each and every one of those complaints. We also have escalated customer service lines that we have a specific line that if we think things are not getting done timely or if they're not getting done to our satisfaction that we have an escalated complaint process. Um, and both of those things in combination have continued to work, um, work very well. Once crews are out there there once. There can be a delay from the time that, uh, the flags go into your yards to the time that our crew is there. And we recognize and understand you're trying to take care of your lawns and you're mowing over these flags. So they're trying to be, um, respectful of that, um, and get there as quickly as possible. but there can be a delay from the time. It's a completely different crew that goes out and puts those flags in until the work actually happens. Once the work occurs, they're doing that restoration work as quickly as possible, and they're trying to get done as quickly as possible, but also make sure that they're doing the restoration work that they're supposed to be doing. Hopefully that helps and answers the question.

It does. Thank you very much. Appreciate the clarification. Thank you.

We have Midco, right? And is MetroNet still doing service right now? I mean, I know there's service in here, but I don't know if they've finished expanding. But do we know, like, are these two companies, if both of them are still working, are supposed to be done this summer? Or is this going to go into next year?

Council Member Mayer, members of the council, yes. I would say the majority of the work that... As a growing community, there will continue to be now that these fiber companies are here though, as thing, as we grow, the companies will, um, continue to extend their services in those growth areas. However, the majority of what we're experiencing last summer, and some of us are now experiencing this summer will. dissipate immensely as we kind of build out the city. There may be other companies who might want to come in and we may have to go through that process again, but we expect that the major disruption that people experienced last summer and this summer with multiple companies coming into your yard repeatedly will largely not happen. after this summer. I think that's accurate. I'm looking at Jen and Alyssa.

We're getting some head nods. Ms. Nelson, you have something to add to that?

Not too much, Mayor, Council Members. Ms. Hardy, you did a great update on that. The one thing I do want to note is Midco also has a cable franchise with the City of Victoria, so they are also required to meet, I believe it's 80% of the entire City of Victoria boundaries and continue to grow with us, as Ms. Hardy noted. So that is a difference between Metronet and Midco. So as Metronet gets to choose where they go in the city of Victoria at their discretion, Midco is required to build out the city 80%. So we may see a little bit more of Midco's expansion than Metronet. However, Metronet does have the ability to go zero to 100 within our boundaries.

I'm assuming they work with new developments to go at a time when it's most convenient there than waiting till sod is put in and re-digging a lawn.

And then while the residents, I realize that this is very, very frustrating and it's very disruptive to your lawns, I beg your patience and I ask, very kindly to treat our staff and the workers with respect. We have had some not so nice comments, and we understand the frustration, but these are real people who really wanna do the best for you. So please treat them with respect. All right, last call for anything else from council this evening? All right, there are no more items to come before the body this evening, so I will entertain a motion to adjourn.

Move to adjourn.

We have a motion, can I get a second?

Second.

We have a motion and a second by Council Member Roberts. All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. We stand adjourned.