Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

We are We are live. We are live. Well, when only two people in the audience, it's really echoey in here, isn't it? Yes. Yep. Welcome. Thank you. This is the uh Spring Lake ZBA meeting on December 4th, 2025. Um, welcome. Uh, please note if you have electronic devices, mute them, please. It's really distracting when they start beeping during the meeting. And I watched a couple of our planning commission meetings um online and a lot of you can't hear some of the people. So, if you're talking, be sure you're right. These mics are quite direction. Can you hear me now?

I can hear you great now. But see, you're always you're always so Well, yeah. We hear you real well. All right. Um uh first called morning to order at 702. Uh we have an agenda. Is there any additions anyone sees for the agenda? Negative. I'll make a motion to approve. Support. Second. Second. Right there. Stephen. All in favor? I. Uh then uh consideration of minutes. I reviewed them. I didn't see anything. Does anyone have anything to add or correct in the minutes? Negative. to entertain a motion to accept. I'll make a motion to accept the agenda or the minutes. Carolyn supported. All in favor?

I I uh then we have uh always have a time for public comment. It would be on any issue in the township that does not pertain to the Beck application. tonight. I do you have something that you'd like to I saw your hand go up. I was retired teacher. I'm ready to call on you. You're already in the teachers pet because you're sitting the front row naughty kids. Remember the look away.

That's exactly right. I still do that. Um then I'll close public comment seeing there is none. Now we have the Beck Waterfront accessory building authorization and variance at 15720 Willows Drive. If if this is your first time before a ZBA, let me tell you the protocol is basically that uh we'd like you to come up and introduce your project and talk about a little bit. Then we'll probably have some questions for you. Uh then we open it to public comment which will probably be real quick again tonight unless you have neighbors coming forward against it. Um typically after public comment sometimes we might have a little bit more conversation with the applicants and then we go into you're here but a close session where we actually deliberate and we will come up with one of three options pass failure or uh uh not abstain. What am I looking for? um table for further information. Postpone table. Thank you.

So with that, why don't you come on up? And you know, there's been a lot of um differing stuff. The all the things don't jive between what your early application was and so on. So So why don't you just fill us in right from the beginning again?

Okay. So thank you all for coming. I know it's a cold evening. Thanks for getting out. Uh my name is Bill Beck. This is my wife, Ally. Um, we bought a house in Spring Lake in January of this year from a gentleman who had deceased and it was in pretty severe disrepair. Uh, once upon a time it had a dock and a building down by the lake and etc. And the the dock had been removed and the whole lakefront was in disrepair. where we had to replace the seaw wall and and we've been really working on beautifying the property. And so, um, we our our home, if you've been there or seen pictures of it, is on a really steep incline going up and down to Spring Lake. It's 25 to 30 feet depending on the level of the lake from the level of the water to the level of the back porch, which is the first floor of our home. And so there's a steep stairwell that goes down to the lakefront and we are looking to in to put in a building which is very much in keeping with the neighborhood. Every one of the neighbors has a building down by the lakefront where they store waterfront equipment, coolers, fishing supplies, you know, furniture that they keep down on their patio in the summer so they don't have to carry it all the way up to the top in the winter time. And so we're looking for a building that's big enough to suit the needs that we're looking for for a lakefront property. Um the the um planned building that we have in mind is no more than 10 to 12 feet tall. So it wouldn't impede any view of any neighbor. Um I've spoken with all of my neighbors. In fact, one of them helped me I hadn't been up here in a few weeks. So, one of them helped me clean my driveway today, which was sort of a

project. He brought over a snowblower, the Cellas, which are two houses down, and helped me get everything all all fixed up. But John Harper, who lives to the east of my house, Tony who lives to the west, uh Mr. Ella lives another house west of that. None of them are here tonight, but they've all given me verbal, you know, approval that they have no issue with this

and also shared where they have gotten their buildings from as well. We're trying to make this very aesthetically pleasing, you know, with their properties as well. Um the the need for having a larger than a than ordinance would allow building down there is simply to hold equipment and things like that to avoid both us and then I have elderly parents that use the house moving up and down the stairs. And so minimizing the amount of trips that they have to make up and down the stairs is important to me. Um, I mean I we can go over some pictures if if that's what the board would like to do to see what we're trying to accomplish or

Well, you know, we have early on like the drawing that's right now on the TV screen. Yes. You were you were going to request a 10 a 12 by 16 accessory building with a 5 foot setback from the sideyard. Yes. You know, so that's what I'm talking about. Very give me the nuts and bolts of what what you're requesting. So after we finished the project, we after we measured it all out, what I'm requesting is a 10x10, you know, standard size building under the variance with a 4 foot by 10 foot addition. So it would be 140 square ft total, which would meet all the requirements of the zoning

height. Uh 10 to 12 feet. So 10 foot what's allowed or 12t? 10.5. That's what 10 foot was. So 10 and a half. I wouldn't build anything that was out of the ordinance requirements. 10 foot.

10 foot it is. Um and then what you can't see from the from the picture is the property line. The the stairs on this picture did not get built. If any of y'all have worked as a with a contractor, you know the stairs actually come straight down instead of off to the leftand side as seen in that picture. And so there is plenty of room to offset the building a little bit. I wondered about that cuz even with a 10 by 10, if you're 10 foot off in that east side property line thought, boy, they're going to walk that last step. You're going to have about a yard to turn otherwise you walk into it. Okay.

Yeah. And so we've made some adjustments sort of as we've gone and that that project is finished. If any of y'all have been out there, you've seen that the stairs go straight down. They do not turn off to the left.

And you should know it's uh we have had in the past 10 years, I think three maybe four uh applications. So, we've all on your on Willow. So, we've all been down that hill. We know we know what it's like there. and so on. And you know, it's pretty clear you meet the criteria to be allowed a 10x10 uh waterfront accessory building as long as it meets setbacks, heights, dimensional, and so on. It's not a problem. You know, it's you got such a steep slope, it's regulated. So, I mean, it meets it meets the criteria. Yes, sir. Go ahead, Laura.

Um, also included there's a satellite view. Um, I taped out. Oh, if you could go back one picture, please, Lucas. Yeah. Uh, forward this one. Uh, go one more. Uh, one more. The one where I taped it out before it snowed. Oh, I'm not sure. Uh, let's see if I go back up to the top here. I think that's all I have. Past it. Oh, you you saw it. The one you want. Oh, okay. That one. No, keep going.

Keep going. Keep going. Like, yes, it's right there. Oh, okay. There we go. So, I took the liberty of of marking out what a 10 by 10 shed would look like then in that area as well as a 10 by 14. Um, that would give sufficient setback from the lake, which I think five feet is required as well as 10 feet from the property line. And then you're eight foot back from the lake, I believe. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. No problem. And and then 10 feet from the eastern property line, which is Mr. Hunter's property, which is you can see his building there in the background.

Our real concern for the extra space is truly that we're sharing this property with his elderly parents. Yes. both have had knee and hip surgeries and um they recently relocated from Oregon for the purpose of being able to fish with their son. Um they brought their fishing boat back from Oregon and so we're really looking for this to be a shared family property and we're just concerned with being able to fit the fishing equipment and um necessary supplies in just a 10 by 10. But we do understand the 12 x 16 was too big which is why we've gone back to the 10 by 14

once we taped it out because we too we're concerned with safety you know as far as how close to the lake um etc to the seaw wall and we were li we were limited to a 4ft retaining wall.

Yes. And so we couldn't ex, you know, we couldn't dig into the into the hillside far enough to get a 12 x 16 building where it was a safe setback and a allowed setback from the lake. And so working within all the constraints that we've been learning about, 10 by 14 is the is the size that we would like to request. Well, you know, being a a a township that has a lot of water on it, uh whether it be on Lake Michigan or Grand River on the Spring Lake, we're quite protective of viewsheds. Yeah.

Uh we don't want someone building out in front of someone. You they everyone should have an equal viewshed. We're real careful about buildings and what type of buildings are built on the waterfront. They're allowed, but we're pretty strict on on on deviating. It's interesting, too. You're right. There are two the house to the east as well as it two to the west have large probably 10 by 14 buildings. Uh I measured them. They're 12 by 20. 12 by 20. Mhm. That when you were on the board.

Yeah. Yes. One of them was built the ones in this picture I believe was built without a permit. So that never came to us. But the one I two properties west of you and I don't remember us agreeing to it that at all. So the property rat us out. Yeah. The property directly to the west that one did go through a special land use process with the planning commission in 2015. That's when the planning commission for a short time was looking at these

and so there was a 10 by14 that was approved and then these regulations then changed and went back this this process came back to the zoning board of appeals and then in that in that time period the the when that change happened so did the restrictions with the 10 by10 area occur. So the ordinance became more restrictive and that was less restrictive prior to going. Correct. Correct. And I think that was part of the concern um when we were looking at these is that they they were too um I guess uh too big. Yeah.

Too big if you will and and and just too liberal in the size allowance for for what it was intended for. So that was the I think the rationale at the time. So So the neighbors was built in within ordinance and then the ordinance changed after. Correct. So it's an existing non-conforming structure. Correct. Yeah. Just want the one to the east is no permits. We we don't show any permit but at that time it was built within the ordinances. The westerly one. Yes. Correct. Yep. Great. Folks have questions for the applicants. What's the sidewall? Pardon? How tall

is the retaining wall? The sidewall of the building. Um 10 foot, 12 foot. What are you talking? The sidewall is 8 and 1/2 ft, I think. Okay. And then it, you know, it has a little bit of a slope to the peak of the roof, which is 10 and 1/2 ft. So, are you still planning on moving it over the 10 ft to have that 10 foot setback? Yes. from the side. From the sideyard. Yes. Because if you look at the picture where that where that um one block retaining wall is there on the east side, there's another four or five feet on the other side until you get to the property line. Oh, I see. Okay. That wasn't clear from the picture, was it Elias? No, I couldn't figure that out.

Yeah. So, just so I'm on the same page. So, right now I'm going to go over kind of what I've written down and we've talked about because we have differing sizes and pictures. Yes, sir. Um, so right now you're 8 foot back from the lake, correct? You're 10 foot from the east property line, correct? You will be. Your height is going to be in accordance with the ordinances at the 10 or 10.5 and 1/2 ft. Okay. And you're requesting a 10 by 14 and 10 x 10 is allowed. I would like a 10 x 10 if that's what the committee would be willing to grant, but I am requesting a 10 by4. Okay.

The ordinance authorization so 40 extra square feet is essentially what I am requesting. Nope. That's why I just wanted to kind of go through it and make sure everybody had appreciate that everything all in one statement. And what did you say the neighbors um approved dwelling was or I have no idea what their approved status is, but 14 by 14 by 12. Didn't you measure the neighbor to the west was 14 by 12? It was 12 by 18 or 12 by 20. But that was before the ordinance changed by and that was different

when it was under the uh purview of the planning commission and and then it was switched and the ordinance was rewritten because as Caroline stated they were just it was getting too large large. Yeah. And as as you noted there are many properties on Willows Drive with pretty large waterfront structures there. This would be the smallest one even at 10 by 14. And we're looking to make this purely storage, very aesthetic. We're not looking to, you know, do anything. No bathrooms, no no bunk beds for the additional kids or I mean, it would be a great idea, but No,

no, just strictly storage so we can minimize trips up and down the stairs because even at my age, it's tough. Yeah. So, in the in the Go ahead. I'm sorry, sir. How big is the one to the east? Um, I have not measured the one to the east that recently was installed in the last three months. We took note of that. Okay. Thank you. So, just as just a reminder, the the one to the west was approved at 10 by 14. So, it might maybe it's not matching up, but that's what was approved.

Yeah. And I believe it was also tucked back into the uh retaining wall. It was pushed as far back as I could get it. Our retaining wall is equal with the neighbors to the west and so we have similar setbacks. Yes. And um if I can ask a question in the picture that you currently have up um you have stubs um are those stubs sticking up all electrical or is there plumbing also in that? Only electrical. Okay. For a airator and shore power for a fishing boat. Oh yeah, nice. And a boat lift which is already installed.

The uh circuit breakers and the control panel would go in planned. And I was just making sure there wasn't plumbing coming. Nope. You've spent enough on the remodel. Any other pertinent questions right now, gentlemen and ladies? Lady, let's do Can you read into Let's do I'd like to open just second. I'd like to open public hearing. There's three letters that were submitted. Can you read those in for us? I received two.

There was three there. There were two that um one was received uh that was dropped off at the office from Milt Burger. Um he stated that he thinks the request should be approved. He lives across the bayou from the house. Sees no problem with the request. The houses on either side have waterfront accessory buildings as well. Right. And then the other was an email from Tony Anton. Anton. Anton. He's the neighbor to the west. Okay. Immediately to the west 1573.

Yes sir. So they indicated um strong support for our next door neighbor in support of their variance request. So those are the two I have. Those are the only two submissions that you've had in terms. Yes, sir. Uh motion to close public hearing. I'll make a motion to close public hearing. Support. All in favor? I. Now it's your turn again. Um so we've had a public hearing. That public hearing is actually for both uh the authorization and the variance. We can do both of those. We vote on the other two separately when we get to that. Okay.

Um my notes will be handling these as two separate items.

Yes. Well, let's first look at the waterfront accessory and building authorization and we're going to deal with that first. So, um by right you're re you're you meet the criteria for an authorization to place a 100 square foot building without bunk beds and toilets and so on down there. Um and um you anyone have anything to add to that otherwise I'm going to go through the Okay. So the criteria here is in section 306 I5 is what shall be considered for a waterfront waterfront accessory structure is if the waterfront lot where there's significant relief such as steep slopes which prevent reasonable enjoyment of the waterfront any waterfront accessory building or structure shall be subject to approval as an authorization by the board of appeals deck should be 400 square f feet or less. You've already met that one. That's A. B. Deck shall not have walls or roofs or percolas or whatever. And you don't have that on yours. Uh here we go. Uh board members, an accessory building or structure shall be 10 ft or more from any side lat line. And I believe that the correct applicant has done that stated.

Yep. An accessory building or structure shall not impede the waterfront view of an adjacent building. I would think it fits that criteria. I would agree. Sheds shall be 10 and a half feet tall or less and not more than 100 square ft in floor area. That's the current plan. We'll get to the other when we get the dimensional variance. F the proposed accessory building or structure shall be generally be compatible with the architect architectural style and building from the principal uh building. And you see the picture he had submitted here. It's very attractive

and should fit very nicely down there. It's a good look. Landscaping plan existing uh illustrated existing proposed vegetation shall be submitted with a site plan. I didn't see Do you plan any vegetation down there? I didn't see that submitted. We have a very small planter on the east side of the property, but it's not more than two feet wide. It just separates us from from Mr. Anton. Yes. And so we don't plan on planting any, you know, other other things down. Well, you'll have a lot of natural vegetation growing in the water by about late by about August. We found that this year.

Uh so we're in agreement that that all fits. Would any uh any further discussion or would someone like to make a motion? I'll make a motion. I'll make a motion to approve the back authorization for a 100 square f foot waterfront accessory structure at 15720 Willows as the application meets all the criteria in sections 3065 of the zoning ordinance with the following conditions. The applicant will comply with all the verbal representations per priorly stated, which is why I wanted to get them all kind of in a row.

Um, the shed will comply with the 10-foot side yard setback. Um, verbal representations would cover statement that they won't put and toilets and whatever in there. And we don't have to add that. So, I'm not adding that to mine. So, that is my motion. Would like to offer support for that motion? Support. Carolyn supports. Uh, roll call vote. Carolyn, yes. Uh, Elias, yes. Larry, not here. Tom Tenate, yes. Steven, yes.

Jack, yes. So, that's that's the first part. So, that's all approved. No problem. Now we're going to move on to the more difficult one is they are also asking to add additional 40 square ft. So the 100 square foot is allowed by right. So they would like to have it to be 140 square ft to give them additional room for the wheelchairs and whatever they need for their aging parents. Um perhaps a vanicular would be nice too. A little extra money. Nice lift. Yeah. Yeah, that will be needed.

Um, so they've pretty well represented that. Any of you have questions for them? Carol and Steven,

Tom? So pertaining to just the addition of the 4 foot by 10 foot um because the ordinance currently does not allow that additional um with the changes now that you know that how things have changed over time and the ordinances have tried to become more restrictive because they were getting larger and larger. Um, so most most of the time when I look at it and say, "Okay, that's ordinance. I've got to try to comply with ordinance because that's what we're here to do." Um, so 10 by 14 has to really get, you know, to get the additional 40. To me, there's got to be an extenduating circumstance that is not self-created. Um, you know, a shed, you're not there's nothing really to create or not to create. It's a shed. um whether we we have a tendency to occupy the space which we create and we have a tendency to fill it and sometimes when you move multiple times like I have you have a tendency to get rid of a lot of stuff. bill.

Yeah. Um so the additional 40 ft, what is your reasoning for needing that 4x10 addition? So it because of the um topography of the property, which we did not create, um when you when I'm looking at at building a shed and maximizing the storage space, I can in a 10 by 10 and 1/2t tall building, I can build lofts that come over where I can set things up on top. We salmon fish a lot in the Pacific. We fish for halibet and tuna and things like that. I'm a salmon guy. I know.

But we have a we have a um an abundance of 6 foot by 2 and 1/2t coolers that would need storage and would be very cumbersome and probably a little dangerous to carry up and down that hill which is not self-created. We plan on having um seating down by the waterfront which would have to go inside in the wintertime. You know, I mean, you guys are familiar with the with the winter weather restrictions around here. And so, anything that we put down by the water would have to go inside in the winter. And so as I measure the equipment, you know, downriggers, fishing poles, all the things that go into a busy salmon fishing boat, um 10 x10 just isn't enough because if we bring if we bring a small loft space over, you know, four feet on each side, that's only two feet to go up, which doesn't fit a cooler. So if I'm going to put those things up on top, then I need to a little bit more length in order to get those things safely stored.

You don't store them on the boat. Yeah. Why would you store them on the boat? Uh there's not enough room on the boat. Then why would you need all the coolers? Because when we go out, we we have coolers that we fill with ice before we go and things like that. And so there's also lots of different kinds of fishing. So we bring different gear for different seasons and yeah, in addition to fishing, we also have children. And so you have two self-created. That is self created. But um in addition to fishing, it will be you know water toys for our kids as well and us to enjoy. But okay, thank you for answering.

Sure. With that said, should we review the criteria? Sure.

So you probably have already seen this as well, both of you. So we have this criteria we're going to go through. So uh number one is there are extraordinary or exceptional circumstances or conditions applying to the property question as to his intended use that do not apply to other properties in in that class. And I don't view that as an R1 or R2. I view that as in that along Willow or other similar street right that has a high bluff going down. Um, do you do any of you see any exceptional extraordinary circumstances here? No, I do not see anything exceptional or extraordinary.

Okay. B, the variances necessary for the preservation and enjoyment of a substantial property right similar to that possessed by other properties and classes and uses of the same zone. uh the property of increased the possibility of increased financial return shall not be in itself deemed sufficient to warrant this. Um, again, if you look at it, it's just those streets such as Willow which are perched up on the bluff with steep. I don't see this different than any other of those properties. Would disagree or Okay. Um the variance if granted will not be of a substantial detriment to adjacent property and will not materially impair the intent or purpose of the ordinance of public interest. I don't see this if it were to be granted I don't think it would materially uh affect the other properties just because of slope you're not cutting into the viewshed you know but some of you may feel different. I don't think

well material impair the intent and purpose of this ordinance not a view shed which case it does it would it would violate the ordinance the ordinance okay D the condition or situation of the property it's intended use is not of so general uh nature as to require a general regulation change I don't think so Um, anyone disagree? Nope. Uh, any exceptional extraordinary circumstances applying to the property in question are not self-created.

Leading into your question. Yeah. I don't I don't think so. How about the enforcement of the literal requirements this ordinance would involve practical difficulties? No, it wouldn't. Any other discussion or would someone like to make a motion? Close session discussion. Lies, anything to add?

Yeah, you mentioned your grand your your father. Um, is there is there special things that he needs to move around or or anything like that? How's he going to get down those stairs and up those stairs? And how how much time is he going to spend at the lakehouse with you guys? Um, he'll probably spend the most time up here because he's retired. I'm I'm a trauma surgeon by trade and the majority of the folks that I take care of are elderly falls on anti-coagulants, which my dad is, and those are devastating. So, the fewer trips that I can make up him make up and down those stairs, the safer it is for him. But his favorite thing in the world is going fishing.

Yeah. And it got to the point where being 80 miles offshore in the Pacific by himself wasn't a good option. Yeah, I agree. And so he moved here so that I could go with him or my wife could go with him or his grandkids could go with him. And so in a perfect world, he would go down those stairs none and we would drive down to the lake to the uh

launch site and pick him up. But he's not going to do that because he's going to be up here by himself. And so I would like him to make that trip once a day. And I think that, you know, if if you guys are familiar with the topography of that street, a an 80-year-old person on Eloquest falling down those stairs is a is a potentially lethal situation. We're going to have to consider a van killer of some sort and then a swing chair to get them into the I think we will. And at their house in Oregon for my grandfather, they had that. So, we're familiar with those sorts of adaptive technologies. So,

because my question is is because if you're going to need like wheelchairs or walkers, my dad's 90 years old, he needs walkers and all that stuff. Then, you know, you know, adding more shed would, you know, might be a thing because those take up a lot of room and they're also heavy. So, you can't necessarily like bring it up the stairs and that sort of thing. So, if he's going to try to stay down there, which my dad can't walk, you know, I have to get a golf cart to go down to the lake and he's got to sit on the golf cart. Um, so, you know, is there anything like like that that you guys are planning? Can you, you know,

I think eventually that will be necessary. And if when, you know, I my dad's had both knees and a hip replaced. I think at some point we're going to have to drive the boat down to the launch to get him. And then if he wants to spend time with the family by the lake, we're gonna have to go back to the dock and then have all of that adaptive equipment available to go get him out of the boat. Now, because we're coming from the Pacific, we have a crane with a crab that we use to pull crab pots and things on the top of the boat. So, we have stuff that could lift a human Yeah. Actually, a thousand pound human from a with a in a wheelchair out of the boat and set them on the dock and then wheel them to the Yeah. The intent would be to put a lift in.

Yeah. Eventually. This is in the last, you know, I guess year almost since we've had the property, we've done major improvements. So that's definitely would be something we hope to do, just probably not within the next 12 months realistically. So, and so there are adaptive things that we anticipate having to use this storage for that can't get wet, they can't sit out in the winter time, you know, all of those sorts of things. So, I I just have a followup to that thought. If he needs a wheelchair, he's sitting in it. It's not going to be stored.

If he needs a walker, he's using it. It's not going to be stored. And if it gets lifted in the boat off the dock, I can't see that because he's in a wheelchair. So I that's not to me a reason for the extra 40 ft. So that's not an extraordinary enough circumstance to allow that. That's what you're saying, right? No. Having buildings with a and a half, I'm assuming is the peak. Correct.

That's correct. Correct. Yeah. You can get a couple of coolers through the rafters on a peak. I I mean there will be a little bit of room. I

more discussion questions. If not, I call for a motion. I have a question. U we only approved the 10 by 10. What is of the township on the shed that didn't get authorization non-conforming? What is the I mean it's really not relevant to it's relevant to my thinking because I'm tending to go with the bigger I but unless we're going to enforce it strictly other neighbors and

we have been pretty strict since that change made in complying to the 100 square foot looking for really heavily extraordinary circumstances here and as Carolyn and maybe Tom have pointed out I think that there there are ways to adapt around that here. I'm not certain that um are yet considered extraordinary for the next 40.

And and just to reiterate the the the shed to the east was installed without a permit and that was not known to me until this process began. the shed to the west was if it if it is indeed larger than 10 by 14 then that is in violation as well which I was not aware of until this process and I will also point out the ordinance changed correct so now we have a new ordinance that we need to comply with

given that more discussion or would someone like to make a motion All right. I'll make the motion to deny the Beck variance as presented for the following reasons. And we answered all of those A through F. So those A through it didn't meet the criteria A through F. Yeah. Okay. Support for that motion. I'll support the motion. Uh, calls for a roll call vote. Carolyn,

yes. Elias,

no. Jack, I mean, Jer. Yeah, but too. Yeah, I did. Oh, you already did. I was first. Jack, no. Oh, Tom, I'd like to vote. Tom, no. Four to two. Did your no? I'm sorry. I I would retract my last one. I am a yes. I am in support of I'm also in support. Right. So, the vote is three. Three yeses, which means it's a denial. Correct. Correct. Correct. Three to two. Great. Thanks, folks. Sorry we couldn't work it out better for you, but thank you. Thanks. We appreciate it. Thank you. You're welcome.

1010's a good shed. It's a nice sh. Okay. 10's a good shed. I'm sorry. 1010's a good shed. See? Yeah. Um, we have to look now next at the adoption of our upcoming upcoming meetings. Yes. Um, and you folks don't have to stay unless you choose to have a discussion afterwards. Okay. Um, is anyone see any problem with the dates is listed and it look good in my calendar? Oh, yeah. I think I was good, too.

For the most part, they're the uh fourth Thursday of every month with the exception Oh, I got the wrong one. Why do we have a November one? We do not have a November meeting scheduled because we put that up into early December. So, it's 11 dates. I will make a motion to accept as scheduled, but I want to make sure everybody's had a chance to look at their calendars if that's all good. Did Margaret do this for me? Did Margaret What? Margaret do this for me? Yes. The dates? Yeah, they're good. So, do I get a second?

Yeah. All right. Uh, do we need a roll call or just uh All in favor? Voice votes. Fine. Voice. Uh, all in favor? I I opposed. Hearing none. Dates pass. Thank you. And now, anything else anyone would like to add before we call for adjournment? Negative. And I'll make a motion to adjurnn. Support. Support. Elias. All in favor? I. I. Good. Thank you. Go Lions.