Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

We are live.

Welcome, everyone. Planning Commission meeting, June 17. We'll start with roll call. We've got Andy, Jeff, Russ, myself, Kelly, Jack on attendance. All right, we've got item B, election of officers. Lucas, you're gonna take it away?

You bet, you bet, thank you. So as everyone here is probably aware, Mr. Greg Latch was not reappointed, our former chairman, so we're gonna have some changes here with the planning commission as far as the officers are concerned. We're also in the process of looking for a new planning commissioner as well. So one has yet to be reappointed. So as of right now, Cassandra, you are vice chair and Kelly is secretary. And so I don't want to put any pressure on you guys tonight to make a decision on who needs to be chair. Certainly, I think it might make sense to wait until we have our new person on board and maybe get some familiarity with that and give you guys a month to fight over that role. But the, you know, some of the things that we've also kind of been talking about is, you know, moving that role around a little bit. And so it's not necessarily, you know, the last two chairmen of the Planning Commission were there for a very long time with Greg and Dave Rumple. So if we change that up every year or every two years, that's something that we could look at too. So I don't think there's a recipe there that has to always be the same so we can mix things up. So at any rate, we don't need to unless somebody is ready to jump in and speak up on their interests or wants to nominate someone. Typically, we nominate, you know, each position individually. But I think, you know, just my suggestion is to kind of roll with how we have things tonight and wait till next month.

All right.

You're welcome to have more conversation about it if you like.

The only conversation I want to have is Greg Latch was an extraordinary leader. As I said to Cassandra earlier, I've chaired the Zoning Board of Appeals for a lot of years. This guy thinks out of the box. Not only does he come in really well prepared, but he also has that brain where he can look at stuff and think about things that wouldn't even occur to some of us and started great discussions as a result, both with the applicants as well as among us. Don't be intimidated. Those are difficult shoes to fill, but I hope one of you will think about it and step up. That's all I have to say. Pass me the Kleenex. Perfect. Thank you, Jack.

Okay. All right. Moving on to adoption of agenda. Do we have a motion to approve the agenda as written?

Are there any late additions or? No, sir. I make a motion to approve the agenda as written.

Support. Okay, all those in favor?

Aye.

No opposed. All right, item D, adoption of the April 15, 2026 meeting minutes. We did not have a May meeting. Any additions, any notes?

I couldn't even find an error anywhere in it, so I'd make a motion to approve as presented. The secretary did a great job.

I would second. I'll support. Okay. All those in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Okay. Time for general public comment. Anyone that wants to step forward, please state your name and address.

Good evening, my name is Nicholas Hrolinski. My address is 334 Maple Avenue in Holland, Michigan. I'm here on behalf of the property at 15669 Littlefield Lane here in Spring Lake, in the township of Spring Lake. This property is a historic carriage house. as a part of the Sunset Farm complex, which is a historic setting on Spring Lake, and it experienced a significant fire on February 14th, Valentine's Day. The fire was largely a roof and attic fire, but since then, the main portion of the building has been largely demolished and is going through some removal of materials, both for salvage and saving things, but also just to clean it up. and to mitigate existing safety concerns that would be on the site right now. However, given the historic character and value of this resource within its context, I'm here as a part of the project team just to provide an update on where this project is at given the fire and given these considerations and mentioned that there is interest in figuring out ways in which we can safeguard and retain some of the historic fabric that is there as a resource. And we don't know exactly what that's going to look like yet. We don't know exactly who and what we'll be asking about. We know we're not really here tonight to ask you anything, but we're really here to provide an update. and kind of show ourselves as a team on the public record and say this is what we're up to right now. This is what we've done so far and this is what our work plan is. So that's kind of what's going on right now. We have done some walkthroughs and some demo as I mentioned. We're excited to tell you that we've had one conversation with the State of Michigan Historic Preservation Office. And we explored some of the historic designation opportunities that are offered through their office. And we're still kind of exploring what might be a good fit, if any, as far as programs and frameworks that they might be able to help us out with. But tomorrow they'll be visiting. So they'll be bringing a preservation architect and a project coordinator on behalf of their team to walk the site with us. We'll be visiting multiple buildings as a part of the site, including the damaged carriage house, and we'll have more information after that. That could play into or be helpful in understanding how do we navigate and sort through building code issues that historic buildings often experience, zoning issues that you're very familiar with and how does the historic aspect of this and then the fire aspect of this, how does that work with zoning? and we're curious to know if the SHPO folks have any advice on that as well after they've seen the site and walked with us. So with that, I will turn it over to the owner, Ms. Kim Koston, and I believe she's brought some materials for you as well just as a part of this update. Thank you.

prepare to hand out hello i'm kim costin i'm the owner um the carriage house and we're really here to also to it's really a revelation of the the first time publicly of some information we've come across very recently we've always i grew up on the sunset farms i grew up in the chicken coop on apple tree lane And my parents bought the carriage house in 69 when I was going into high school. And I've loved it all my life and I've wondered who built it all my life. And we found out three years ago from a relative of Philip J. Klingman that he, in fact, bought Sunset Farms. There's a site map in here dated 1905 that's in the Tri-Cities archives that shows that he didn't buy it until 1909, but he was already planning and laying out the buildings and planning a giant renovation of the main point house. And so there are six existing buildings from the Sunset Farms as it was. But if you read the article, which is in your handout from 1913 in the Grand Rapids Free Press, they explain the chicken house, the carriage house, He used the carriage house for offices as well as a barn and for horses and carriages. And he had a walkway to the main house, a grape arbor. And he explains the chicken coop in quite a bit of detail. He calls it the hennery. And so why is this important locally to us? And unfortunately, Philip died. 1913 year that article was written at the end of the year, and he was only 50 years old, but what's this local significance to us and the historic context of sunset farms. He was a brilliant entrepreneur and visionary in grand rapids. He paved the way for the furniture market by building showrooms. He bought the Waters Building, built five showrooms. He first was in the Blodgett Building, he and his partner, then he bought the Waters Building with a banker, built five showrooms, then added five floors, an additional sixth floor the next year, another building, which paved the way to more and more buildings, which made the market bigger and bigger and able to sell more and more manufacturers' work and artisans' work. So he really shifted his focus in 1905 to this part of the state, and he was with a neighbor of his in Grand Rapids who bought a 30-acre farm just down the road on Fruitport Road from him, and Sunset Farms was 60 acres. The other important key thing of local significance is the inter-urban railroad that served Spring Lake and served the resorting and cottaging on the lake and brought thousands of people here and facilitated these kind of estate farms. And also, we're looking at and exploring the possibility, we think that, Some of the buildings may have been created by master craftsmen and artisans, and that would add a lot of significance for the state historic preservation people in terms of recognizing all six of these buildings and the property. I tried to do that in three minutes. Did I get it? I brought two books from our Spring Lake Library just in case you ever want to check them out but this part of this chapter of the book is in your handout about philip clingman and um about this whole market phenomenon that he was so important in creating and why grand rapids became the furniture city he's one of the founding fathers and then his connection to us is really important and the other The other book is really fabulous about the inter-urban and I learned so many things and I've loved the lake all my life and lived on it. I mean, I've lived in that neighborhood. For me, this is home forever. Wherever I go, I always come back here. So I'm here to just tell you why it's special. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah, please. So you're aware, you've met Lucas Hill and you're working with him as our community development director. Where are you going with this?

So I have met Lucas and worked with Lucas on variance applications in the past. I should have mentioned, we're actually working with Denny Dreyer. He's the project architect. And so we're transitioning from cleaning up a fire mess to saying, let's not scrape everything right away. Let's pump the brakes just a little bit and see if there's any of this historic fabric that can be salvaged, can be saved. can be restored, rebuilt in some way. And so we're kind of just being a little bit more methodical. To your question, where are we going with this? Is it variances? Is it zoning questions that we're gonna have? We're not quite sure about that, but we felt, and Denny's recommendation was, it would be good to get in front of this group just as kind of an update. And then behind the scenes with Lucas, we'll be communicating after we learn more with our walkthrough with SHPO.

Well, as our community development director, he's the key person and that's where you'll want to focus a lot and then he'll feed the stuff on down to us. So interesting presentation. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Any other comment? Comments?

Okay. You can just close the public comment. Yes, yes.

Okay.

All right.

Closed general public comment. Moving on to item F, Lake Ministries Daycare Center, special land use at 16765 Hemlock Drive.

So at this point, we'd ask you to come up and give a presentation, a brief presentation on your request. And once that presentation is completed, then the Planning Commission will ask any follow-up questions, and then we'll move into the public hearing aspect, and then they will move into deliberation from there and possibly make a motion from there. Okay? Thank you, Lucas.

So we have already been in front of you. Welcome back. A couple of other times on this matter, so I don't know that I need to go into too much depth about what we're here for. What we're asking is that the special land use be approved for a daycare center to the extent that the state of Michigan will approve it. So if they approve it for 100 kids, you would go ahead and approve it for 100 kids. If they approve the building the way it is, you would approve it the way it is. They do not have their final approval yet because they have their... They have to have their employee list together. They can't have their employee list together until they know they have this locked in. So it's kind of a vicious circle that we've been working with. But they do have potential future plans for some modifications to the building or adding sidewalks or things like that. But we would just ask that it be approved the way it is right now. And then we can address those with Lucas when and if they come up. So you have the packets in front of you. So I will leave it at that.

If I may, so just to reflect on this a little bit more is that we did have the zoning ordinance amended to allow for daycare centers within places of public assembly as a special land use. And there are a number of requirements in section 915A to pretty much, I think it's a fairly substantial list that really Mr. Bolchi, our attorney, helped us create to make sure we're trying to eliminate all of the potential negative impacts that could happen to the adjacent properties. As we discussed before, we have these types of daycare centers occurring in churches already within our community that really, I mean, typically there are larger parking lots and they sit fairly empty most of the week and maybe the facility does too. So it seems to be a good symbiotic relationship. This particular site is, you know, it does have, you know, there's plenty of separation between it and home. So we're not looking where it's, you know, putting a playground right up next to development or homes or things of that nature. So I believe the applicant did provide a fair amount of detail in their responses to all of those special land use requirements. From a staff perspective, really, and maybe from your perspective, some of the decisions that would need to be made tonight is, is really some of that buffering, the landscape buffering along the parking lot, between the parking lot and the public road, and suggesting that there be some additional trees planted there. You know, the way the zoning ordinance is written, there could be a significant amount of landscaping added along that stretch. But I think there's discretion that the Planning Commission can use here when it's an existing facility. But that is entirely up to you and, you know, In my discussion here in the memo to you, there was a suggestion that that landscaping essentially be approved by the township landscape architect. And we wanna make sure whatever goes there is viable in that location, things of that nature. But it did feel a bit barren in that stretch, in my opinion. So I think that would add to the, kind of breaking up that spans of asphalt and adding some character to the site. So those were summarize some of the history and some of our concerns from a zoning ordinance standpoint. I think the landscaping would really be a minimal investment, but sometimes the trick is, and what we're finding with landscaping is making sure it's viable and then it does last and survive. So whether that's irrigation or just making sure things are watered, like if there's new trees put in, they have the water bags that you can fill up if there's a time of drought and things of that nature. Any questions, happy to try and answer them.

I had a couple questions, I guess I can start. Sure.

You're the chair. You can do whatever you want.

Okay. Were those questions for us or?

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, sure.

So this is the current sign, right? Correct. Are you guys adding the, assume everything gets approved, like the The daycare?

That will replace what is there right now. Okay, so this is the go forward. The name of the church, I believe, is Vision Community Church. So the logo for the church actually will be a little bit different than the one there, but that's what the sign will look like.

Got it. And it'll be on both sides. You can see it whatever way you're coming from. Correct. Okay. My other thought was in the parking lot, just because I'm too familiar with pick up, drop off lines at school and whatnot. So do you guys plan to do like painted lines, arrows, and like direction in the parking lot to avoid, you know, you have two cars trying to exit and one's trying to come in, something like that?

Yes, yes. So right now they do have parking that extends all the way to the north end. Some of the spaces will have to be removed at that end to ensure that there's circular motion around the parking lot. So yeah, they're gonna have it repainted. Perfect, okay. And I actually had a question real quick because I wanted clarification. Is the space for the landscaping gonna go along Hemlock or along 168th?

It would be along Hemlock.

Yep. Okay.

Hemlock.

Just the area in front of the parking lot there. Yeah, just the space.

But I agree with what the chair said too. It would be nice because when you're a harried parent and you're coming in to drop your kid off, you're already late to work. You're not even sometimes looking at signs, but in your eyes are the little arrows. If there's two or three arrows indicating one way, so you come in through the entrance, veer to the right, go to the back, and then a right turn and round. I think that would be helpful.

So they'll follow this plan? Okay. No, that's great.

Were there any other questions?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Be patient.

Do you have more? Oh, go ahead. No, I'm good.

First of all, Jennifer, I think you did a nice job, your presentation within answering the questions that we would have. But the landscape plan, Lucas, typically in a site review, we have a landscape plan in front of us. Instead, you're going to allow them to do it, and then with approval by our consultant,

That's a suggestion.

Sure. That's fine. As long as that's how it works and they can be real specific and she can help them so there's no invasive species brought in. Certainly.

I think if we get into that discussion with the landscape architect and balancing that with the requirements of the ordinance and then If we get to, and I don't anticipate this, but if we did get to a point where there was some disagreement and we needed to come back to the Planning Commission for the landscaping, we could do that. That's always an option, but I think we can work that together.

Right. And then my experience, when I started looking at the lot, and I've been there a couple of times driving through and just casually checking, I realize technically it's a corner lot. So there's two front yards. Does that affect at all where they plan on putting their outdoor exercise or playground area? Okay, good. I have no concerns. Having been a preschool teacher of deaf children for 30 years, I would really like to see some sort of screening on the roadside, I mean 168th side of that playground. It would not have to be extensive, but something to break up the visual there. You don't grow podocarpus here. Might be just some white pine trees, something inexpensive that would be green year-round. I would suggest that. You'll have to work that out with a landscape architect, but I would have children out twice a day on a playground and so on, and I like some screening there. There are a fair number of creeps in the world, so the less we can show of what's going on, I think the better for our children. Yeah, that's it. Thank you.

Going back to the parking lot, I was wondering about the lighting. If you guys thought those two light posts that you had were going to be sufficient. I'm just thinking about the winter time, early morning drop off when it's dark. And is the lighting going to be sufficient for that?

And that I'll have to defer to you guys because I haven't actually seen it at night.

I just think in those early morning dark hours when people are rushed and if they are parking to walk the kids in and then people are also pulling around, the more lighting the better for those periods of time.

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, great.

I think that's nice just for the protection of the children to keep prying eyes off. Great, thank you. Personally, I think if this works out for you to go through, it'll be an asset to the community. It's been a struggle for a lot of the working parents in Spring Lake, Downship, and many other areas for years. Where is there someplace convenient I can drop my kids off and get right back on the highway and get to work in time? I hope it works out for you.

Any other thoughts, questions?

Same with lighting. Any ideas to light the playground differently? There isn't a whole lot back there, if any. And understanding that 6 a.m. in the winter is a lot different than 6 a.m. in the summer. And 6 p.m. in the winter is a lot different than 6 p.m. in the summer.

I can, Jack, I can cover that. So just, we were, Jack and I were saying, you know, we'd like to have everybody talk into a mic, but just for, it's okay for now. We'll just clarify for those who may be listening that the, you know, the concern was lighting the playground. And if I heard you correctly, you said, you know, playground time doesn't really start until 10 a.m. And so you'll, It's not necessary, per se. So is there any lighting at all on the building back there? Like wall sconce or something along those lines?

There's doors from the gym, there's doors from a hallway, and there's doors from the classrooms, and they all have spotlights. So there is lighting for that area, how substantial it is. I've actually never checked it. I just make sure they're off, they're not on all night. And so those are something that if we needed more, we could add more floodlights or we could look at adding something that's higher like the parking lot lights.

Just be aware we're pretty strict too on downward facing. So if there are floods, you want them aimed down. Aimed down, yeah. Sure.

Thank you.

I do think Consumers Energy is typically pretty open to adding lights. So whether that light is hanging over onto private property or over onto the street, it might take a little while, but I think right at that intersection would be a good spot to have one of those lights and make that request.

Mm-hmm.

The only other comment I had was I am concerned about the vehicle circulation. It just feels very tight, especially for 100 plus kids or 100 kids. Recognize there could be two or three in a family, but still, so clear designation of pedestrian areas versus vehicle traffic. The ordinance really encourages no backing up. So parking and walking kids in is not ideal. So I'd encourage you to rethink that a little bit or look at that more closely as you work with Lucas.

What's the age range at your daycare?

The age range is gonna be from infant until school age for before and after school programs. So they will have buses pick up and drop off at the daycare, but then the daycare will go through preschool.

Okay, because I just know having three kids in daycare that dropping your kids off and waving goodbye isn't really a thing. I'm not so much concerned about the circular is because I think the majority of your folks will be parking and going and getting their kids.

Right, when you're hauling a car seat inside the door.

So knowing that they're probably gonna have school bus pickup and drop off daily at the location, is the plan for the bus to bring all the children to the road for that pickup? Or are we thinking that a bus could make this turnaround?

So when we have buses now use our parking lot, they make the turnaround just fine from what we're watching. We are only partnering with one school right now and they're gonna bus with their one bus. They'll pull in, do the turnaround, come out. Now to go with your kind of your comment, in preschool, We're not going to have all 50 families show up at the same time. Our drop off is between 6 and 9 a.m. And we ask that our families are gonna be there by 9 a.m. So we understand that it's gonna trickle. So our parking lot is not going to be full. However, we do understand that there are gonna be some days when we have snow banks, when we have things like that, our parking lot is gonna become smaller. So when that time comes, having those buses, the one bus that we are gonna have, we're working with that school very closely to help them understand the best way to get in and out as well. But it will not be at the road. They'll come into our parking lot every time.

So when it comes up that someone from the Spring Lake School District wants to have their kids there picked up and dropped off so they can get them there in the evening or in the morning, Have you talked to the Spring Lake schools about getting a bus in there?

No, we have been really careful about putting everything out there because we wanted to respect what we were doing with you guys. So we have not advertised anything like that. This one school that we're working with are just good friends of ours. So that's where that conversation has come out of. But we've tried to wait as long as possible to get through these next few meetings before. just saying we're doing this and then not having the availability to do this.

Understood. So in the event that that happens, I don't know what the Spring Lake School District does if they pull into parking lots for pickup. They do.

Yeah, they do. They go to Little Acres.

Yeah, and that's what I'm gonna say. This parking lot is much safer than the one at Little Acres for getting in and out of. And they usually will probably pull up to the front door is what they do for Little Acres. So those kids have a very short walk from the door to the, Sprint Lake Transportation does a really good job with this.

At least when I was at St. Matthews, they came up to the driveway. They did not actually pull into the parking lot at all. I think it might be on a case-by-case basis, but that road wasn't as busy as Hemlock. This one, people go very fast on this road. Yeah.

So that's my other question. I know this is a site plan review and it's not technically the roadway further beyond down the way, but signage that designates now that this could potentially have up to 100 new vehicles pulling in and pulling out every day. Do they look at the road commission and have conversations with them? Are there road commission signs for that? Is it signage that they could potentially add to their property that doesn't go against the signage ordinances?

Any new signage in the right-of-way would need to be approved by the Road Commission. So if there's a new school-type sign or something along those lines. As far as the driveway is concerned, we could double-check with the Road Commission on that, make sure that driveway's adequate for the use based on... On my observation, it appeared to be a standard commercial driveway width. And so, but if we could make that a condition that it's double-checked by the road commission.

I'm less concerned about the driveway, just of the notification, just yellow caution signs that, you know, school zone or something like that. I mean, I understand it's not a school, but it's just something that will notify drivers because that is a blind zone. and people are looking to turn on to 168. People are smoking around the corner going the other way. That was my daily route. All of a sudden, there's extra cars turning there. When I'm not used to it in the morning, I can see that being a challenge.

So you're thinking of like a yellow school bus loading sign or something like that?

Yeah, I don't know what it's even offered. And I know it falls out of the site plan, but it's just something that.

I'm not sure it does. I mean, I think that's a legitimate.

Well, I'm thinking it's going to be off of their their lot potentially, because the lot is not, I mean, if we look at the lot, it's maybe to the south side, it's within stopping distance or reactive distance if a sign was on the side where the old pool blueberry farm was. But coming from the northeast down Hemlock, that sign could be 500 feet to a thousand feet away. I don't know what they do with current school zone signs. So there's something to look into.

I'm not sure if there's a qualifier per se, and if a daycare center qualifies for the road commission sign, and that's kind of how they operate from their engineer book, but I think it's certainly something to look into.

Good thoughts, Russ.

um the clarification on our students so our ages um is birth to five and we're seeking for 50 students from the state for that but then so like our daily six to six time frame our after school ages are going to be kindergarten through fifth grade and that's from the 2 30 to 6 p.m so those It's not 100 kids at 9 a.m. It'll be that 50 and below in the morning, and then the afternoon will be the once that after school kicks off is those higher numbers in the afternoon.

Thank you. That actually makes a pretty big difference. Yeah.

That does, yeah.

And I would assume that the majority of those afternoons would be a school bus drop-off.

Any other questions, comments? Okay, so.

Public hearing?

We can either, oh, yes. Yeah, we need to open the motion. Oh, open the public hearing, okay.

You can just open it. You need a motion to close it.

All right, let's open the public hearing.

So anyone has, if you have some comments regarding this application, come on up. Tell us who you are.

My first time here. Sure. And I know you kind of went fast past the general public comment, but I kept thinking, I don't have a comment, I have a question. So I didn't know if that count or if there's another period to ask questions of the agenda.

Related to this application or just in general?

Not at all. It's about my new construction home and its assessment and tax rate.

Well, yeah, this is the planning commission which doesn't address issues of that matter. So that would be something that would go to the assessing board of review. And so I can help you with that after the meeting or just give you my card and you can reach out to me and then I can put you in contact with the township assessor and she can help you with that.

I've spoken to the assessor several times, and I just get taken around in circles. In the meantime, for planning, my property used to be agricultural way back in the day, and I'm worried that maybe it's still classified that way.

Okay. Yeah, those are things that this board can't handle at this juncture, so those are things I can help you with. Okay. So I can give you my card.

Okay, there's no- I'll make a motion.

I'll make a motion to close the public hearing. I support.

Okay, all those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay, public hearing is closed.

All right, so are we- Now it's deliberation time, yes. So you guys get to discuss amongst yourselves any concerns you may have and build consensus.

Well, this is clearly an act in progress, because it's all on layers and so on. But I think their initial plan, to me, looks good. It certainly will be an asset to our community to have yet another child care center. I agree with what you say, Russ. And I think the school aspect, when you start bringing in kindergarteners, first, second graders dropped off, pose some new challenges. I'm sure there's some that haven't even occurred to them yet. They won't know until they get the place in progress, but I like what they have and I'm pretty much in favor of approval.

I fully agree with Jack. I think it's a need in the community. It's definitely a need on that end of the community. The one thing that, actually I forgot to ask, is if there's going to be playground time out of the fenced area with the drop off of older kids.

any of our playground time will happen in that fenced area i can't legally by the state have anything outside or in front of our property so anything that happens has to happen in our playground area

Well, your gymnasium will offer an opportunity, especially for those older kids to get some energy if they had to sit in the classroom all day to actually burn off.

Yes, our gymnasium will hold our after school program because it's so large so that they'll have areas to do homework, which we're willing to help them with but then also have an area of play time as well where they need to get that energy out they need to dump that energy yes um so yes so everything will happen on the playground okay thank you thank you thoughts

No, and just because I'm in the throes of daycare, the safety concerns of that parking lot don't give me much concern. Lighting, good point. They'll look into that, but otherwise, I think they have a good setup here. And like I said, safety-wise, compared to what we have already, this is a much better option.

I think it's a good plan. Jeff, anything? Last thoughts? I agree.

I agree with all of you.

Okay.

I'd like to make a motion. Second. That's it.

Excuse me, Jack. Jack, before you start.

Jack throws in a couple of things.

Could I just mention a couple things? Please. There is a draft motion there for you guys to use if desired. Some of the things that I added was, just for your consideration, is E would be repaint the lines to ensure proper flow through the parking lot. Screening on... on 168th Ave, which whether that's through vegetation or slats in the fencing, address lighting concerns and investigate an additional light on the consumer's energy power pole. And then also contacting the road commission to look at the possibility of additional safety signage.

I had them all. So with that, I'm gonna make a motion to approve the site plan and special land use by the new name, but cares by the lake ministries is presented at 16765 Hemlock as the application meets all criteria in the applicable sections of the zoning ordinance with the following conditions. The applicant will comply with all the verbal representations made tonight. The Ottawa County Health Department shall review and approve the private septic system. That's still probably on your agenda of things to do. The facility shall meet all licensing requirements of the state and meeting all building and fire codes in advance of occupancy. Additional trees of at least 2.5 inches in DBH will be installed along the south edge of the parking lot on Hemlock. as approved by our township landscape architect. I suggest a consultation with the Ottawa County Road Commission to see what kind of signage or what kind of input they may have for you. additional marking a repainting of lines and additional marking some arrows and so on the parking lot some sort of screening up to your choice what you do for the playground area and then possible additional Yeah, lighting. You're going to have to assess that and take a look at it. And you can consult, too, with Lucas on that. He may have some input for you. It's hard to find a dark time now. You'd have to get there before 5 in the morning or after 10 at night. But in a month from now, it'll be a little bit easier to tell. That is my motion.

Second.

Okay. And we need a roll call here, Lucas. Is that correct?

Correct.

Okay. All right. So do you want me to call it off? I can do that.

Okay. Andy? Yes. Jeff?

Yes. Russ?

Yes. Jack? Yes. Kelly? Yes. And Cassandra?

Yes.

Great. Thank you. Motion passes.

Thank you. Good luck. One more step.

All right, moving on to item G, accessory structures and fences in the mobile home district.

Yes, I can take that one. So hopefully you had a chance to review the memo. As far as historically, the township has leaned heavily upon the state rules to ensure that accessory structures and fences and things of that nature were built within those parameters. And so what we found is that those parameters are fairly vague and they're not written well. And I think there's probably some agreement on that with even the park owners. And the state really, in my opinion, at least from what I can tell, does not do a very good job in really following up on things. So over the course of time, we noticed that many of these structures were being installed within the parks without permits from us. And so, some of the lots were starting to become fairly dense with development, if you will. So you have decks, you have garages, you have sheds, you have carports. fencing and not all of it necessarily looks bad. It just starts to really, as far as the bulk of materials that are happening on site, starting to really enclose those open spaces. And when we look at our ordinances, the way they're written today for like a normal single family home, We have lot coverage requirements that are 25 or 30% to make sure that there's open yard space left around throughout. So you have air flow, there's room in between the structures from a safety perspective. We have fairly strict guidelines as far as accessory building sizes that you can have. And so a lot of different things that come into play weren't really being applied within the parks up until recently when we realized, okay, there's starting to be an issue or a concern. Some structures... like a pergola, for example, might exceed that 200 square feet, but it's built right up against a mobile home. And when it's right up against the mobile home, then that starts to create some building code issues as well, because once it's adjacent to that, now you're trying to put a stick-built structure next to a structure that's mobile. And so there's some of those, and this hasn't been an easy one to navigate, but at the end of the day, from staff's perspective, I feel there should be, and I think I run this past some of the board members and the other staff, but there should be some limitations that apply. I'm not exactly sure how we develop those. I talked with adjacent municipalities about these things and they have very similar concerns and issues. Some of the documentation of the parks is not very good either. So their lot lines, it's not like a lot in a park is the same as a lot within a subdivision or in a new PUD where they're, surveyed and really well defined. So it creates some issues there. But what I'm attempting to do tonight is just begin that conversation. And I know Marcus Zylstra is here with Forest Lake Estates. Also been in touch with Tracy from Country Estates. and trying to create something that makes sense for both the township and the park and is easy to administer between both the park and the township. there's consistency and the lots don't get overbuilt. And when they do have construction put on them that it's done in manners that meet code and create an attractive and still a safe place to live ultimately. So, one of the concerns that also was brought up in the memo is, is portability or movability of structures. And so just, and this is just a philosophical debate we can have, but if the homes are meant to be movable within a park and that's the intent, should any other accessory structure also be movable? I mean, obviously a 10 by 12 shed is easily movable. Carports are easily movable, but we do see some tenants there who want to build a permanent stick built garage on their lot that's on a foundation, requires a building permit and things of that nature. So that's not movable. Ultimately, if I understand it correctly, that's not their property. They built the building. Maybe they still own the structure itself, but it becomes part of the park ownership and is a permanent structure. That adds value to the people who are living there and that's what they want to build and they're probably going to stay there for a very long time and enjoy that garage or that structure, whatever it is. By doing that, does it start to change the the nature or the intent of a mobile home park. So not easy questions, but to answer or easy ordinances to create, but the intent here is really just to kind of begin that discussion in the public forum with you guys who ultimately can make recommendations to the township board After tonight, you can hear a few things from Mr. Zylstra. We can have some conversation and then I'd like to carry this message up to the township board as well and kind of see what, get some feedback from them too and begin to potentially create some regulations. I threw some regulations together for you to look at just to kind of give you an idea. of what could be potentially, but ultimately that's kind of where I hope we're gonna go and just create something that works for everyone and those within the park, so.

Madam Chair, I'd like to hear what Mr. Zealster has to say. He's here and chewing at the bit. Why don't you come up and tell us what you have to say? Come on. Don't be shy.

I'm happy to talk. Marcus Sealshrove, one of the owners of Forest Lake Estates. We used to own Country Estates as well, but sold that to the NoDells. So to kind of back up, I would say our, in general, our goals are aligned here. We want one to be able to point to a set of guidelines, rules, whatever you may call it, because Francine runs our park and she gets a lot of requests for these things. And we have our own park rules and things that we are implementing that we think is right and appropriate. And I don't know how many of you have been through Forest Lake Estates, but would love to have you go through that and check out some of the lots. But anyways, that being said, so I think having a set, and I've been working with Lucas a little bit on it, to point to is a good thing. Cause like if someone comes in and we approve, let's say a deck, right? We go through fancy and they draw a picture, they sketch out the lot for us and we say, yep, this looks good. Let's do it. You know, they, then of course we say, okay, it's gotta go to zoning. All right, well, Lucas then gets it. He doesn't have anything to like, do you approve this or not? So I get the overall idea here that we can have a set of rules that we can say yes or no to. So an alignment with that. Secondly, in alignment with wanting the park to look really nice and the yards to look good and people take pride in ownership of Each lot, and that's something, you know, Francine and Junior do a great job in getting on these people. Some are, you can move the needle. Some are a little tougher than others, but in general, I think the park looks pretty good. We've awarded a couple awards in the area about the nicest park or whatever, but I think some of those recommendations you have, I don't, I did also make some comments on those. That was a few months ago, but I would, You've been doing this a long time, over 20 years in the mobile home park business, and we got to be involved with some of these rules. And he's for sure willing to do that. But I think one of the big things is the number of accessory structures, too, is going to be a problem. And here's why, one of the reasons. so some of our homes come with built-in decks anyways from the manufacturer so like right off the bat if we're saying a deck is is an accessory structure okay that's one strike out of two now the tenant's got to pick between a shed or a carport to keep snow i mean snow off of their vehicles they don't have garages they also don't have attics or basements to put the stuff so if they choose a carport okay now they don't have a shed now francine's looking at all of their bikes, their lawnmowers, their gas cans. It's all like, where does it go? Right. So that's one. And again, these are just it's a start. And that's why we're going to work together on this. But that's kind of one of the strong ones. I'm like, OK, that's going to be a real problem because now we've created a bigger problem where there's just junk everywhere in their yard and you can't store stuff under the home because that's a hazard. So that being said, again, happy to keep working with us. I'd like it to move quicker, though, because we've had we kind of were palted on some of this new stuff. And I understand why, because you got to know what's going on and to know a set of rules, but she's the one who's getting black from people like, Hey, I submitted this 10 months ago. What's going on? Like we really want to carport. Okay. Well, she had to go all winter last winter without a carport. We're like, eh, we're working with them and we're trying to get, you know, here's why. And, and so I would, I'd be happy to work as quickly as possible with whoever I got to to get this done before snow flies this year would be great. Because I don't think Francine wants to go another winter saying no to people who want a carport if they're allowed to have one.

So Marcus, can I ask a question? Yeah. Do you need or want our help? Because there's a part of me where I'm not sure this is our problem.

I don't want your help, to be honest. I mean, now here's the thing. To Lucas's point, if it's going through zoning, You know, then I guess it's a matter of, hey, go drive our park, and if you trust us, say, hey, if you give Lucas the green light to say, hey, I trust Forest Lake, if they approve it, I'm good. Like, there's nothing more that I would love more than that.

Well, I'm just looking at the map overview of your park, and I'm not seeing an overabundance of huge permanent structures. I'm seeing a lot of sheds. I see a few carports. i read this memo as somebody didn't get a building permit which to me is an enforcement by us so if they didn't get the proper permitting they should tear it down and we should enforce that yeah i'd have to be pointed to a specific event if you know i mean again i can't say

We're harping on these people too, to like, Hey, everything's gotta come through our office and approve it. But like, I can't tell you that one Monday morning you wake up and something did, somebody built something behind our back without telling us. And maybe we know, maybe we don't. Um, and that's not good.

It's the same thing that happens to the township though. People won't, they want to build a super duper chicken coop or whatever that's, you know, 200, 300 square foot. They just build it, not realizing the permit. I have some questions for you too, along with what Andy is saying. I don't know what your park rules are, but first of all, to a concept, most years are double wide and most years in really great shape, but do they have to remain mobile?

So yeah, going to that first point, I would say no. We... I mean, these are their primary residences. They're 99, if not 100% of these homes don't have tires or axles on them. They're removed. They're off-site. They've been sold. These are their homes. It's incredibly expensive to... break, especially a double down, double wide to break it apart, split it, cut the utilities, shake it down the road, merge it back together. And like, it's, $15,000, $20,000 to just even move it. So in almost every case, they would be better off just selling it, and they do.

Yes, even at a reduced rate because of the cost of moving it. So do you have rules then regarding structures? Like you mentioned, some of the prefab homes now that are set in there come with a deck. Do those decks then get bolted into the home, or do they have to be freestanding?

the ones that come from the manufacturer yeah they're tied into the frame okay when they're built um now if they build a deck like on to their home that doesn't have a deck yeah we will always tell them to get a permit and like review your the manufacturer's specs so you're tying into the home at the proper you know weight load and everything and lag it and do it right um So yeah, to answer your question, if it's coming from the factory, yeah, that's built by them, that's tied in appropriately. And then if it's above a certain square foot, I mean, the like a set of steps, I can't remember the square footage, but a set of steps like that's not bolted in. But if it's a deck, then then it would require a permit and approval.

I only saw a couple cases in your place where there was actually something other than a deck bolted into the foundation or the attaching points. It wasn't quite a pergola, but it was actually attached to the front of the home and so on, right? Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Okay, it was down at the west end of that. I wanted to know if they could be moved, whereas across the street I grew up, by the way, summers in a mobile home in a small part too. And they all had to have axles on them and they had to have tires there and so on, even though some of them are still there 50 years later. But nevertheless, that was a rule of the county that we're in in Northern Michigan. So you have these, they come in, they're set down, they're not, even if they're trailered in, they're set on a foundation, plumbing's hooked up and so on. They're not to be moved. So without an extraordinary amount of money, right, to take them out.

They're tied down, they're bolted, they're anchored.

So do you have, then, your park rules that you're not supposed to bolt things other than decks into the home?

Francine can talk more on that. From our perspective, if it's, and again, the manufacturer's manual is massive. So if the manufacturer allows it, we allow it.

Got it.

And then aesthetically, we have to...

Well, your comment earlier about whoever makes the rules, and I think Andy brings up a good point, is it really our responsibility? I know it's the same thing in our township. If we don't have conditions regarding a residential lot or a multi-family lot or whatever, people can almost do whatever they want. They may anyway try to do that, but without building permit. Whoever does it, it works to your advantage. If you have a set of rules that say, no, this applies to every lot in Forest Lakes Estates and so on. That can work. I don't know whose responsibility it is to establish those, but they do need establishment so you can be there. When I looked across the street at Countryside, there's a flagrant violations over there of what's going on. Also, your Forest Lakes Estates have generally really well kept up. I can see some of the people really pride in their property and below the logs and so on, whereas there are actually units, they actually look like the old 50s and 60s, 60 foot long trailers that probably should be condemned. I can't believe they're not leaking badly. They're in terrible repair and so on. So the rules would help. So those are my questions for you. Thank you.

Yeah. And I don't have, like, that's a, again, we've already kind of been going on it. So what he submitted is a pretty good start. Like, I don't think we're far off. I got a few notes and changes, but I don't think we're too far off.

Yeah, thank you. Talk to the microphone, Francine. I'm Francine. The tall guy brought it up. Oh, yeah, you're right. That's a good point.

That's one way to get me to look up to him. Yeah, I hear you. But I'm Francine Fields. I'm the manager of Forest Lake Estates, and we work really hard to try and bring it up and keep it up as best we can. And it has, like you said, there's those little ones that sneak by, and I've actually made people tear things down. Now, when it comes to hundreds and hundreds of dollars or thousands of dollars, I might have a bit of a problem, but that shouldn't be able to be done just in a weekend. There was someone that put up a canvas-type carport, and I said, nope. Well, she took it down. But we do have in our rules, and we make everyone sign them, that they check with us before they build anything. And we have made up a letter that says you must go to zoning first. If we approve it, we give them a letter that we will approve it, but then you have to go to zoning. So I make them sign it. So this way we make sure that now it's done right. I'm not quite sure how to address something that was done years ago that's against the rules now. Grandfathered in or something.

The term we use is legally non-conforming because they built it before you had the rules or whatever. It's pretty hard. But if they want to start modifying it, then that's when you can come down on it.

Right, right.

Yeah, and I think this points to my concern of getting into a business we're not familiar with. Like, we don't know manufacturer laws. We don't know what's allowed, and then we have to start writing rules based on that.

And you just described a situation.

You got them to tear it down. Do you know how long it would take us to get somebody to tear something down? It would be years. We'd get sued in court. We'd have to fight it. Like, you have the ability to enforce things faster, quicker than we could. So, like, this feels like we went looking for a problem.

we found it and now we want to pass rules to tell you how to run your business it just that feels uncomfortable to me and the other thing that is kind of concerning is when you make all the manufactured home or mobile home parks the same Sometimes they don't work because I know of a park that has homes so close together that the neighbor can hand them their salt. You know, we don't have that. We have larger lots and we really do push people. I'm every day out there sometime in the day and everywhere I go, I'm looking all the time. They need their grass mowed. I'll text them from my phone. You've got to mow your grass, whatever it may be. And I can't catch 100% of the things, but we do try very hard. We have much larger lots, it seems like, than most places. And well, as you can see from a couple of the other parks in the area, we do try very hard. We work on it. I live there. I work there, I live there, my life is there. And I think that with us is a good example of having a nicer property, wider lots, have a smaller deck or something and a car. All fits, because there's plenty of room. That should be okay. Like Marcus said, if you don't have a shed, they're going to put it under a cardboard. That's going to look horrible. And you can't, by law, store anything under the house.

So then you've got to rent a storage unit next door or whatever, something. Yeah, right.

Because they won't do that. If they're going to rent some place on top of their home they're buying, they're just going to say, we might as well go down the road.

It was quite impressive driving through. I did a slow drive on every street. I looked at every piece of property a couple days ago. Even witnessed you with a dustpan picking up leaves off the road out by the storage area. I'm pretty sure she was. She was right there sweeping them up. It's clear that the concern and care that you put into it you guys have because it is really quite attractive. I did not visit the ... We have a mobile home. area up also on Apple Drive, and I did not see that one, but there's a stark contrast across the street to what you're doing, so kudos. You guys did a good job. Thank you. I don't have any more questions for them.

Our homes are bolted down, drilled to the concrete with steel. It's not just strips or straps or anything. We have a storm. I don't feel my house moving.

Any other thoughts? Did you base your park rules on the current state laws? Do you find those vague?

Yeah. So to Lucas's point, the state laws are incredibly vague because they have to be, to be honest. Like every park is different. Every park has different lot sizes. So to like to write up rule, it just there would be so many exceptions. So, no, we I mean, maybe loosely, but I mean, if he's found out, you start looking at the state laws, you might as well not even look. I mean, because they're so vague because they have to be, they can't really apply.

So it almost becomes the discretion of the owner of the lot. For sure. Of the park.

There isn't a minimum lot or a spacing or, no.

There are some minimum distance requirements for, let's say, a shed away from the main, you know, the dwelling and adjacent dwellings. Things of things of that nature, but there isn't there aren't limitations. Let's say on the size of the shed Or the site you know there's and there's mention of carports, so it would you would be from that that there's an allowance for carports and they say they have to be at least two feet from the edge of the road, but that's it. So it doesn't say much beyond that and what size the carport could be and if it can be fully sided all the way down to the ground, things of that nature. So it's really not clear in that realm.

So do you want, what direction are we going?

Here's my guidance. If you want to agree to a set of rules, come back to us with that, but do it quickly so he can run his business. But I don't think, personal opinion, we should be in the business of regulating these. You're going to add 600 zoning applications to your docket already when you're already slammed. And we don't know this business. We're going to have to understand manufacturers and what they allow and don't allow. We're going to have to adhere to that. So we're wading into waters that we're ill-informed on, is my personal opinion.

Mm hmm.

All our homes had built.

So there is some sort of enforcement or there is some sort of regulation that's happening? That's federal.

Yeah, that's federal. I mean, but coming from the factory, it's already HUD approved. So yeah, that's the only types of homes we would buy. But yeah, getting back to the accessory structure go forward plan, I'd just to hear your thoughts on Andy's comments.

I'm interested in how our current zoning ordinance doesn't cover it. It calls out accessory buildings and structures in the mobile home district. Capitalized, so it's a defined term. And as such, we don't have some setbacks and some other things, some definitions in that section 306, as I saw. I don't know that we need a whole separate thing out there.

So good question and I had conversations with Mr. Bolchee about that and the the the challenge is that the lot lines aren't defined within a mobile home park and if you apply if you actually applied the accessory building regulations that we have that I agree with you would apply across all residential districts They would basically meet many of those And and so we would be denying those applications if we applied the ordinance has written so the attempt is to create something that's for a unique district and so At the end of the day, if the answer is do nothing, and we can do that, I think we just need to clarify that in some fashion, that essentially, if we were to say, look, you can build accessory structures and fences, as long as they're meeting building code, we could do that and just be done. And we could even clarify that they meet all of the standards of the state laws. So there's that option, but then I think the other, that was my challenge exactly, Jeff, is that if I apply these, it's not gonna work for the parks. And so if we were to create something that was, and I'm thinking on the light side, something that both the parks can use because, But if we have something in our books, the township enforces that and they don't necessarily have to. So that's something that makes their lives easier in that realm too. So that's kind of the middle ground that I was trying to find that would be beneficial for everybody.

Well, I can see where, again, not having a whole separate ordinance, we can tweak the existing by adding in a mobile home district, this is what you have, different things like that. But I don't know that we have to rewrite a whole section for it. That just feels tough. And I do agree with you that it's like, whatever's more stringent, state law, federal law, or whatever we decide to draw up, or if we do anything at all, or park rules, whatever's more stringent. Because you have safety, liability, other concerns that you have to worry about as well. I mean, you don't want sheds flying around in a heavy windstorm like we had a couple days ago, you know, or other stuff. Right. So...

They want to hear.

Right. My thoughts. I think we have it, we almost have it covered. We got to just define it differently. Because again, even like your lot coverage piece, I understand why you did that. But if we can't define the lot, how are we defining lot coverage?

And you, you own the lots, right? So you can redraw your lines. We do.

And yeah, there, there are no lot lines. It's up to our discretion. Yeah. So that's where it gets very unclear applying residential stick bill law. Like it's just,

Well, it's not even zoned residential. It's zoned commercial.

Yeah.

I would see if you allowed some structures or some sheds, whatever. I mean, we have it kind of covered in that ordinance. We just got to define... As it applies to a mobile home park, there's some distances from other structures, from neighbors, from the main structure, everything else I think you laid out was decent. Tying it down, important. I think there's a stack up of what's more stringent and let the park owners have their business as they want, because you want it to have a certain aesthetic and feel in the area. Outside of that?

I don't mind having a set of rules that you guys have. I just want to write them. Let me do it. I'll work with you, but rely heavily on...

I'd have to believe the market would to a certain point dictate that too. I come in, I'm a prospective new buyer. I'm looking at a couple of areas here. I go to their place, I see everything's orderly. There's no bikes and junk yards, junk cars laying around. I go across the street and I see dilapidated homes bordered on each side by a new home. I think I'm going to go to his lot and not across the street. I think the market will determine some of that, but you can't get in lot coverage, even as large as their lots are. If you get a carport and you get a 10 by 12 accessory building out back, many of your accessory buildings are very handsome, by the way, you've exceeded the 50% lot coverage that is allowed in a mobile home park. I agree with you, Andy. I don't think we should get too far into the weeds with this.

Yeah, and I'm saying- So are you saying currently, Lucas, when a zoning application comes across your desk, it's just denied because when we apply current zoning law?

So it could be. But historically what basically what we've what we've done is somewhat of a informal moratorium until we can get this worked out so. On accessory structures so and we, I think we have let some sheds go in and things of that nature, but it's. There's been an interest in doing, I think it was an attached carport off of a home and things of that nature, which again, at the end of the day, if that's something that is, as long as it meets code building code then and we're okay with that we can just be good with that and we can enforce that as it's written on the books today um the question you know is it just is there um uh Is there a time when that becomes too much on a lot? We say yes to that inside of our normal residential districts. So there might be a similar concern within the park. And if there isn't, that's fine. And that's the feedback I'm looking for. And I think we could still work together to create some what I'd call some light regulations that that work for both the park and the township to create some consistency allow us to You know make it easier for them to say no to certain things and and still do zoning reviews on those to make sure that it's that it's safe and Maybe we're just looking at distances from different structures, things of that nature, where our fire department might want to have a word, you know, or some interest in that.

But tying them down too. Everything's tied to the ground.

Yeah, the accessory building's correct. And the thing is, if it's under 200 square feet, you don't need a building permit. So it can be a 200 square foot carport that's not, I mean, they can set it right on the ground. And that's, I doubt that happens and people tie them down, I'm sure. And that's just the way the law's written. yeah so we're just looking for some you know i think we've got a lot of input here tonight um i don't know if there's anything else you guys want to add to this but i think i can continue to work with the owners and and come up with something uh potentially that's lighter or um simplify it that and at the end of the day if if there's uh I just maybe would, what would be helpful for maybe for both parties is just some clarification on things. Clarifying within the ordinance that section 306 does apply, but here's how it applies differently in the parks in a certain fashion.

I think that makes sense.

Sure. Mike? Oh, sorry. When would be your next meeting? So maybe we could get something addressed in between time and then get an answer by next meeting?

July, mid... Third Wednesday in July. We meet the third Wednesday of every month.

And again, we've already got somewhere on this, so I don't think we're far. I like that you're working together.

We can dissect what we have and simplify that. July 15th is our next meeting and so we can work on it in between then. Thank you both. Thank you.

Keep sweeping the leaves.

I appreciate that, everyone. The next topic, and this one comes from a few property owners and some history of looking at waterfront setbacks. And, you know, in... What we've seen in applying the average waterfront setback is those measurements are made from the ordinary higher watermark to the foundation of the home, and it does not encapsulate any decks that might protrude towards the water. So what may happen at times is when you make those calculations, it pushes that home back to a point where the deck would have to start basically behind the deck of the two adjacent homes. We see this especially out on the Lake Michigan shoreline. One of the owners out there and I were talking about it and asking the question basically, is it fair that the home in the middle has to start their deck even with the two foundations of the homes next door? Is there a way that the ordinance could be written to allow them to have the same opportunity and have a deck that extended out from their home and matched up with the neighbor's decks? And so that's really the question here. And of course the main concern we're always trying to be cautious of is view shed blockage. We don't want to create a situation where any sort of structure gets out beyond that average setback, creating a visual hazard and causing problems here with the township. That's where we've been very vigilant about protecting those view sheds and the Zoning Board of Appeals goes through the waterfront setback determinations on a regular basis and is vigilant about that as well. one option is to consider something like I've proposed here where you have a situation where adjacent homes have similar decks. And so this would be something that would just be matching up with what the adjacent homes have. But this would be the difference between this and what happens now is that it'd be something that could be administratively approved. so instead of having to go to the zba someone could hey your waterfront setback is is 50 50 feet for example and your your your two neighbors have decks that are 10 feet out from that same point and administratively i can give you that 10 foot deck as well that way it's just it's just consistent that's all i'm really looking for is some consistency and allowances that even the zoning board of appeals has a tendency to give out when they're looking at those waterfront setbacks so it's And if they weren't doing that, I probably wouldn't be suggesting this, but sometimes when you see the ZBA can do things in a consistent fashion over the years, you start saying, well, is there a way to change the law so someone can do that administratively and not have to jump that hoop?

Pay the $750 or whatever. Exactly, paying the dollars to go through that process and try and...

I'm certainly not trying to give anybody any sort of special favoritism or anything like that. It's not what I'm suggesting. It's just really fairness to allow a similar type of structure in comparison to the two homes on a waterfront lot. I think the deck needs to come off the main level. There needs to be restrictions on it, like the railing maximum height of three feet, the 10-foot depth requirement. No large structures on it. No structures on the deck and things of that nature. And certainly making sure that that deck doesn't become... you know, walled or have a roof and things of that nature. Those are all the things we have to be concerned about today anyway. But hopefully that makes sense. If not, happy to answer some questions there. But, and I can, if there's even a hint of, yes, this sounds like a good thing, you know, I'd want to continue to work on this. This is really a very early discussion on it. and we'd wanna refine the language further, but it's more philosophical discussion at this point.

I think your point about these, these have come up a lot at the ZBA and rightfully so, I think a lot of them are granted because they look at it and it makes sense. So if that has been the precedent that we've been setting, then this makes a lot of sense to make their life a little bit easier. But Jack, I defer to you on, because you see it more often.

real often actually and he and you know your point I agree I think this is a good idea there will still be people who will come before us because what he what what we're talking about allowing will not be enough for some people it's the biggers you know they want a bigger accessory building and they're going to deck the sticks out further but I think they have that as a general framework which will eliminate some of those that really are no-brainers before they come before us you still have to go through the whole process I think it's a good idea I like it I agree

I also like the deed restriction. Yeah, the deed restriction is a nice way to go because then when you sell a property, hopefully people are reading their documents when they go through a title search.

Well, we'll talk about that in a minute.

I'm not sure. Did you guys lose your screens?

No, we're good.

That's very strange. I lost the main screen here, but okay. So I'll continue on down that path. Okay. Sounds good. Thank you.

All right. Commissioner comments.

Nothing major other than we got a new trustee appointed. We finalized it down to four. I think Joanne agrees with our pick, which is all that really matters. So we did good. And the big thing is we kind of got phase one of the repair costs for the North Bank Trail that caved in. This is really around the water sewer line and getting that back up and stabilized. And that's coming in at $60,000 to $70,000. It'll be pretty significant, probably, the cost to repair the whole thing.

Will insurance help?

We're trying. We filed a claim. We expect some pushback. But I don't think it's been approved yet, right, Lucas? So we're working on that. But if they don't fund that, we'll have to figure out how we get that restored. So we have some options. And then... Russ is in the bathroom, so he can talk about SLARA, but that's it.

Andy, were there a good, highly qualified group of people applying for the open board position?

Yeah, I think we got 18 resumes overall, had a working session to get them down to four. I was impressed with all candidates, I thought. We kind of did a voting system to whittle it down to like the final two and then we deliberated. I would have been happy with the top three candidates like I really liked. And even if the fourth one, I think it would have been fine. But it was a good batch and Chris Estes has a ton of business experience running large credit unions on the east side of the state and he's made his home back over here on the west side and just has a really good business acumen. I see him helping with the CIA work and a good banking mind, but also a business owner, loves the community, wants to be back here and yeah, he's excited and yeah, rounds out the board, adds a little bit of a business leadership expertise that we could use.

Well, I only know what I read in the Tribune. I wasn't at that meeting. I somehow was not able to get it online, but your discussion of the last four was all done in closed session, but it sounded like all four of them were quite qualified, which leads me to the next thing, which is it sounds like there's been quite a few well-qualified people applying for various positions within township. That's comforting.

Everything was in open session. We didn't do anything in closed session, and we deliberated in open session, which was probably a change from the past. I attribute that to Supervisor Rabideau of wanting to run a very transparent process. He didn't go seek out candidates. We advertised, we posted, we've been much more proactive about attracting new people and not just going to the same bank. So I don't think any one of us had a personal relationship with any of the four that we selected. which I think is good. And we let the best person emerge and I think that's what happened. So we're excited for Estes to join.

Excellent. Well, you know that we were waiting for a new liaison for the trustees for the Zoning Board of Appeals. And because of the process with Carolyn retiring and so on, it took a while. So I'm assuming that will be appointed soon.

I think he wants to make, he wants to get this position filled and then we have to rearrange some deck chairs and committee assignments. So he'll make some changes there, but we've got to find homes for some new people. So I'm thinking he'll do that in the July meeting, but he's determined to get this filled and then we'll get the committee.

I'm looking as a chair of that, of ZBA, I'm looking forward to having that person in, but I tell you the, you just added, christian bsl and he looks like a real winner he's an alternate on our board and uh i think that um elias ashi is coming along it's starting to progress i was a little concerned at first but uh it's it's great that we have now really qualified people are interested in serving in the township so well done Yeah, yeah, if they want, whatever the chair wants me to do.

Yeah, you're up.

I lost my notes. Hold on. Where's my agenda? See, I was putting stuff away. My mistake. So at the ZBA meeting last month, we had three applicants. One was just a variance request for a front yard set back on a corner lot. It's one of those where they added a street after the lot was there and a house was built out and they put a subdivision. So now you have a house with two front yards rather than one front yard and two side yards. We granted that variance. 16210 Highland Drive requested variances and authorizations for a waterfront accessory building that is over the allowable square footage and over the allowable height. As it turned out, it was also located three foot onto a neighbor's property. So it's a heck of a five yard, five foot setback. We also were three foot into the neighbor's property, which when someone said, well, I hope they pay attention to the realtor or whatever. In this case, I think the people who sold that house, the realtor and the ex-owner both knew there was an issue there and sold it without ever disclosing that. So we have a really nice young family. beautiful home uh right on is that that's a bayou it's a bayou at spring lake yes yeah it's not hanky panky jerusalem bayou i believe jerusalem right so uh it's really unfortunate because there'll be here and there's a seawall there and the eagle's going to get involved so the people have some options and they asked us to table that so that will be continuing but it's a from a zoning board of appeals it's a real interesting case but it just shows a buyer beware and then on 17850 oakwood drive which is kind of part of Prospect Point. The two people that spoke about the historical significance on Set Set Farms, there were a number of farms along that east side of Spring Lake and that was just one of them. So this one was actually part of a farm and it was an orchard and they have an underground building We were trying to determine, is that a structure? Because you then wanted to build a new building down there. Well, if you got a structure, you can't have two waterfront structures. So it actually was a pump house for the orchard. And it's heavy concrete, all rerods in it and so on. It's just, it's a bunker. It's really a bunker. It would take an atomic bomb. He's safe in that baby. Anyway, we did grant that variance authorization and a variance at 17850 Oakwood. That's it.

We talked about the Petty's Bayou public hearing review. I wasn't at that. And so we just went through the concerns. Main concerns were parking lot, The crossing, the crosswalk. We had one public comment about the Rising of Park Master Plan. Baseball seems to be really prevalent. Almost every park we're talking about removing all the baseball fields. during Central Park's getting them removed. We were looking at it in our master plan for rising and removing them there, and turns out it's come full circle, now baseball's hot. So we need to do a little bit more digging on that. Obviously, we weren't gonna get moving forward on rising at any time soon. Pickleball courts out there are on the move. The posts are up. I don't know if they started repainting yet,

I'm not sure it should be happening this month for sure.

Yeah, I was out there last week. But yeah, so fencing will go up after that and netting too.

And they're built on old tennis courts, correct?

Yes, we took the basketball courts and split the basketball courts into two. Then we had the bike path discussion. Tomorrow's the state road ribbon cutting. And then Lucas started the culture of kindness on the paths. So everyone's concerned about e-bikes and getting run over and all these different things. So there really isn't. any regulation we can do that's gonna change any of it. That's the consensus on the rec committee. So just telling people to be nice on the paths is where we're going and notify. Jerry sent out a post today and we'll talk about the,

bike ordinance later on sidewalks so i think it's interesting russ i've been in town a lot lately checking out things for zba and some but i'm seeing now that school's out a lot of kids have these really expensive low electric bikes and they're flying down these sidewalks pedestrian beware so obviously when you've got north bank trail or some of these other trails you've got to be i mean they really create a lot of speed they really got a vehicle that could do some real harm because those with the batteries must weigh a fair amount If you could hit someone at 25 miles an hour, you're going to break bones.

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a hot topic across the nation right now. I think it's very confusing. It is not being presented well. anywhere i mean the problems aren't e-bikes they are not e-bikes they're e-scooters and e-motorcycles so until we make the distinction there we're going to struggle with it forever because we'll never ban bikes we'll never ban e-bikes per se true e assist bikes but the problem comes in with these other vehicles that are being classified as e-bikes they just had a big deal where they went with Grand Haven Public Safety and reviewed it downtown Grand Haven this week. And talking about e-bikes, but all the imagery and everything is motorcycles. Yes.

The non-motorized bike path, though, right? Yeah. Yes, yes. That's a distinction. That's tough. You're right.

That's the messaging in the culture of kindness. That it's non-motorized, that was the messaging I read today.

Well, so where do you make the distinction, right? Is it truly non-motorized, right? Or is e-assist acceptable? It is, but it is also a bicycle path. I always said if they could just fake pedal it, I'm okay with it.

So they're not even doing that.

So I really do think that what the township is following, which is pretty close to what Tart Trails is following, is very consistent. Is it going to eliminate the problem or the challenge? No, it will not.

If we banned them or did anything, we wouldn't have it.

Oh, absolutely. And on the other side of that, I'm on the... I'm probably on the opposite side of the spectrum here, where almost everything I read or hear is addressing this, talking about children and teenagers being the problem. And that is not the case. And again, it's the messaging. Everyone in our area should all get together, come together, talk about it. And I think that's what we're trying to do. So we're going to have some engagement on the paths and put some signs up.

Well, as Andy says, the enforcement issue, and it's the same thing with the noise issue. Where do you get, who's going to enforce that? We don't have officers that go out with audiologic equipment to study the decibels of a, you can now hear. You can now hear these, what are they called, cigarette boats or muscle boats or whatever. I live two miles off the lake. If there's not much wind or so, I hear those babies starting mid-morning Sunday. They roar all weekend, you know, and you can hear them for miles. When I would sail, I could hear one 15 miles away if he was downwind coming down Grand Dravers Bay. Or the noisy car where you used to get an RR ticket and have to go to stop there. The enforcement issue is there. So I like the township's approach and what TARD has done.

Our whole nation needs some kindness. Right. It's a good start.

The only other thing is we're starting the communication with everyone about the last remaining paths that we have in the second millage. Not a lot of money left.

Yeah, that'll be a fairly intense community engagement process to not just look at Boom Road, but look at all other places in the township to make sure that last path location that's picked is the right one. And so I think the recreation committee will do the heavy lifting kind of like through the park process for Petty's Bayou and then ultimately make a recommendation up to the board for consideration.

We may need that money for North Bank, though, too. Oh, yeah. So I'm reserving judgment until we get cost estimates on that, because we can't build a new path and not afford to replace that one.

But it would really help if you could negotiate successfully with the insurance companies, huh?

It would be helpful. Hopefully.

So there will be in July, just to add on to that, that staff has worked on, I think it's July 16th. We're going to set up a tent, probably in Central Park or North Bank Park, it's called now, and have a table. And then throughout the day, hopefully it's a nice day, there will be, like every hour is kind of like when we do the bell ringing at Orchard Market for Christmas, everybody takes an hour shift. Is it staff and elected officials and maybe you guys, whoever wants to participate can come out to the tent, which is along the bike path. And that's gonna be kind of the kickoff, if you will, of this community of kindness trails and talk to people and, change the culture a little bit on the bike paths. And so that'll be kind of a fun event to do.

So are you saying you're handing out yard signs or something?

We're not going to hand out yard signs necessarily, but hopefully we'll have some kind of bling to share, like some stickers, you know, and things of that nature for kids and whatever. But more or less just trying to promote the culture of kindness on the trail system areas. So... And Beth Peel is our new communications director, and she is a rock star, and she's really helping us with so many different aspects of communications and graphic design, so she'll be helping us with that, and it's pretty exciting stuff.

Council employee?

Yeah, full-time communications director, yep, yep. So excited to have her on board. And I'll just jump into number four, kind of dovetailing into that. The community ambassadors really kind of went through a process of designing an engagement procedure for the rec committee to follow. And it's like a four stage process basically to work through to ensure a robust engagement process. So that's what they've been working on. And I think next month they're going to just open up the topics and pick another one to continue to experiment with engagement processes. I think we might have a template that's forming. And so that'll be kind of neat to take each topic and try and fit them into a template and follow that template. And so we're consistent in the process that we do these things. So it's fun to watch that group evolve and continue to do more things. Is that about right, Joanne? Yeah. Joanne's one of our community ambassadors.

Let's see, Corridor Improvement Authority.

Work continues on the corridor plan. The consultants, which is progressive companies, held a mobile walking tour. Jack joined us on that one. And that was interesting to hit some intersections. And, you know, one of them was Rupert Road, number 104, and the other one was 148th and 104. So you start to, you feel different when you're a pedestrian out there on those intersections, wandering around. And so the idea there really was to try and think, okay, what can we do to make this space safer, more comfortable? more attractive, things of that nature. We haven't seen the report come back yet, but all in all, I think the event was good. They also did a village walkabout as well and just kind of auditing places. But people were trying to, just trying to imagine if you had a disability and you were trying to manage, maneuver these sidewalks and spaces, it's... It can be a challenge. So we'll see what comes of that.

If I may piggyback, it is amazing when you walk an area that you normally would bike through at 25 miles, 20 miles an hour, or that you drive through at 35 to 55. When you're actually there, what a different perspective it gives you when you see things. And then it happened to be today, I happened to be on Roosevelt Road, west of Henry Street, which is where there's a famous burger shack and stuff and so on. What a wonderful, you would just want to get out of your car and walk down those, the way they have set that up and so on. It's all walkable. It's all local businesses. It's walkable. And to look at what we saw when we were especially at, not so much 148, but when we were back at Fruitport Road, how that deteriorated the further to the east you went. Yeah, yeah. Very interesting.

So for CDD, I guess all I would share is that I had the opportunity to go to Detroit last week and join Jason Shamblin, who's the county parks director, in separate presentations to the Michigan Natural Resources Trust Fund Board regarding the Petty's Bayou Waterfront Park. So they invited us there to speak on that. And so that was quite an honor to be there. the presentations or grant applications were amazing. I mean, I don't know how they make a decision on which one's the fund or not, but I mean, they go through a scoring criteria, but I mean, there are some really amazing projects in this state that are on the docket for 2026, but we're right up there. And it was a great opportunity to, thank them for funding the acquisition of that property, as well as all of the other projects that they've touched in Spring Lake Township. The Grand River properties, Little Black Lake, the North Bank Trail, Risinga Park, pretty much all of that improvement has been through a trust fund grant. So, and that's just us. Can you imagine that statewide, you know, and the funds that have been dispersed? I wish I knew what that number was, but they're celebrating their 50th anniversary this year. So 50 years of the trust fund. So pretty amazing program that we have here in the state. So hopefully things will work out for us in December.

is that when you find out when they find out if it's approved okay yep yeah that's all for me since andy brought up the uh ribbon cutting let me also bring up the north bank trail which now we just had a ribbon cutting that was chaired once again by lucas uh last night right there by the Nunica Saloon. Some of us avoided going in there for drafts later. It's been a group of citizens from about five different, six different municipalities from here to Coopersville that have been working together for 20 years now to make this happen. And there's been some various generous donations, some from the state, but some from some local families. And last night, the Russets, and Sylvie was a board member for many years here, also helped to start the North Bank Trail Organization many years ago. Their family donated a quarter of a million dollars to our project. which allowed us then to re-deck the two trestles over both branches of Crocker Creek. It's all open now. They've gone to a crushed gravel path through there up to, is that the 80th Street then? Is that the next crossing? 96th. 96th. But anyway, Lucas was amazing at sharing that. A number of local dignitaries. Josh Brugger was there. Who was that representative lady, one of our state reps?

Give me just a second. Allison Miedema, she's a county board person too. But I don't think, we didn't have any of the higher ups as far as state level, but we had county level reps there and some Crockery Township board members.

Well, he did a really fine job of cheering this and the Russets were honored and brought down to see the, there's a wonderful plaque right there that you could see right by the caboose and then further down more to the trestle. So for a good time, you might want to consider taking it, whether it's a walk or a ride or whatever down there and check it out. certainly probably the one of the top two high points of the whole trail. I think one of them is the one that the board's working on repairing right now. But when you see those bridges over those two branches of Crocker Creek and that valley, it's quite impressive. So thank you, Lucas. Sure.

It's a wonderful donation from the Russett family. Absolutely. Yeah.

Do we adjourn?

Would you like a motion?

Yes, I'd entertain a motion.

I move. Who wants a second? Second.

All right.