Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

There we go. Okay. Well, uh, in the absence of our chairperson tonight, uh, it falls on me as the vice chairperson to, uh, induct the meeting. So, I'm Rick Newman. Uh, let's call the meeting to order at 602. And uh may our zoning administrator uh do the roll call please. Detent present. Reed here. Romberg present. Meridian here. Moss here. Newman here. Smith here.

Okay. We have a quorum tonight. Uh, our next item of business is to approve the minutes from our last meeting on December 17th. Uh, does anybody have any proposed corrections or comments to the minutes? Uh, hearing none. Does anybody like to make a motion to approve? I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. Sorry, one touch. Um, I'll make a motion to approve the minutes from the um, sorry, December 17th. Yes, December 17th.

Second. Thank you, Rege. Uh, we have a motion to approve and a and a support. So, all in favor of approval of the minutes, please indicate. I

looks like a unanimous approval. Um, the third item of business tonight is our public comment period. And this is an opportunity for the public to um, comment on anything they want to or items that are not already on tonight's agenda. So, I don't know if there's anybody that would like to u make any comments to the planning commission. Looks like nobody here in person is ready to do that. And uh nobody online. Lisa

trying to get back there. Sorry to get this uh presentation up. It doesn't appear. So okay. Well, we'll move on to our public hearing tonight for case number 256-25, the Crestview Commons Major Amendment. Uh, John, would you like to u provide a staff report at this point on that?

Can do. Members of the planning commission, we prepared a memo dated January 14th that summarizes the application that's been submitted by a miracle real estate company, a representative from you, a represent a representative and I think an affiliate of the U-Haul Corporation. Uh the purpose of the application is to utilize the former Kmart building which closed in 2014 for a indoor storage facility. Uh their proposal that they've submitted uh includes the uh that uh 89,000 square ft of the building would be used for indoor storage. Uh they are proposing to include at the corner of the building two 4,000qt retail units that would be leased to other tenants. Uh one retail unit for U-Haul operations. Uh three shunting lanes for truck trailer and semi-truck use and 92 at least I counted 92 outdoor uh many storage units. Uh the building after Kmart closed portion of the building was used by big lots several years ago. Uh they closed in 2024. The planning commission um a couple of years ago also approved a portion of the building to be used for PetSmart. However, that did not go through on the on the uh uh uh on the side of the developer in terms of they had some negotiation issues. My understanding was relative to the rents. So, the even though the planning commission had approved a pets smart that did not occur. Uh in the memo, we put down some positive impacts associated with indoor storage facilities and some negative impacts. uh positive impacts. Basically, you're

going to fill some vacant space in the community. Uh U-Haul and some of these large storage facilities uh such as Public Storage, True Storage, Cube Smart, uh usually are long-term tenants. They have lower operating cost, significant reduction in traffic, and uh because they're using an existing building, it's somewhat sustainable. Uh the negative impacts associated with these facilities in existing shopping centers is they reduce con consumer draw. Uh there are perception issues in many communities where the these storage facilities have gone into a shopping center. Uh they become it appears uh visually as a dead use because the parking lots aren't fully utilized. There's some occasion occasionally there's parking and access conflicts because of trailer use semi-truckss bringing in supplies. Uh there may be an impact to co-enants primarily because of the reduced uh usage of the facility itself u based on the information that was submitted by uh U-Haul as part of the and they'll they'll have it as part of the presentation. uh these facilities only generate about 35 cars a day in in trip generation which is not a a large number of vehicles coming into the shopping center that would benefit the existing tenants. The thing that's before the planning commission this evening is to take a look at this project in in in uh in terms of the uh how it fits in with the community master plan. And I have a we had a narrative in here relative to a couple of the goals that were identified for the community master plan was the development and redevelopment uh to maintain highquality living and working environments for current and future residents and have a context appropriate rehabilitation and revitalization of existing commercial areas and

neighborhoods. As I mentioned in my observations of the overall application, the Kmart building has been vacant for some time and it's a challenge. I I fully admit that for a shopping center developer, it's a challenge to rent these large unused big former big box facilities. However, the one thing that we have to take a look at is what we're what they're asking for this evening is for the planning commission to make a major amendment to the PUD to allow warehousing and wholesaling. Uh that I just want to make sure that we're we all understand that could set a precedent in other commercial areas even for smaller operations. The other point that we've made and I think we've expressed this to the people from U-Haul is that the city is basically surrounded by a chartered township and we have no further area to develop. So we have to really take a look at infill and redevelopment of spaces that we have left and this is a uh a site that has remained vacant. However, is one of the few last remaining redevelopment sites we have in the city. As I mentioned, based on their trip generation, uh they generate based on their numbers, 31 cars on a weekday, 53 trips on a weekend. Not a significant trip generation in terms of bringing more people into a shopping center that is currently struggling. Uh once converted, these facilities are hard to reconvert back. And one of the things that has been noted and we all we all have talked about it when uh you all was here in August kind of given us a preview of what their what their uh project was that Crest View Commons is located on US 131 and it's a major gateway into Paskki. So it's sometimes the first thing people

see when they come into the community is is the shopping center. So we have to be somewhat cognizant about how that would be built out. I provided some proposed motions for the planning commission relative what's your disposition after hearing public input into the process. I have a motion to approve a motion to approve with conditions and a motion to deny. But uh in summary, that's the staff report relative to the project. Um and at this point, Mr. Chairman, I think it would be appropriate if the applicant gave a presentation to the planning commission. Okay. Very good. Would uh the applicant like to uh close is on a docket tonight, please believe please?

Absolutely. So uh push a button. Yeah. Would you uh

Is that that better? There we go. All right. My name is uh John Gilmore. I am the president of U-Haul of Northern Michigan. So I would oversee the operations and build out of this new facility up here in Paskki, Michigan. Um I'm native Michigan. My family's from Gaylord, so I'm super familiar with up north here. Spend a lot of time up here myself. Uh, Bo Mountain. I got engaged and married and, uh, this is this is my my country up here. So, um, I'm out of Grand Rapids right now, but that this is where family's at. So, I'm I'm very familiar and very cognizant of, you know, um, image coming into a community. Um, few things that I I want to touch on. uh you know we have a presentation to go on here but just to speak to um just a little bit of what John was talking about here in terms of image um we we are actually the gateway into a number of communities in in Michigan already. So um I I'm not sure if everyone here is familiar with Byron Center just uh on the south side of Grand Rapids. So we had a similar project to this in Byron Center Michigan uh which is on US 131 uh at 68th Street. Uh there was a Kmart, one of the last ones built actually, part of a strip center and Kmart closed um mid 2000s about about similar time time frame that Paskki closed up here. And after the Kmart closure, the strip mall began to lose tenants. It had a grocery store. The grocery store closed. Um I mean they had very little occupancy. So we we came in, we we bought the Kmart. Um, subsequent to us purchasing the Kmart, uh, it's now 100% occupied with additional construction in the parking lot of a Planet Fitness on top of Tractor Supply going into the old grocery store and every stall in that u particular development is full. Um, and

that is kind of the gateway leading into Grand Rapids there on the south side of town. We have another store in downtown Grand Rapids which is the gateway to a community in there. Um, and it's it's really right in the heart of downtown. Um, we we we blend well into those situations because we do things a little differently. You know, we we are a storage provider. Absolutely. We are a do-it-yourself moving provider. We are a first stop into a community um when somebody arrives to town. I mean, that's that's what we do. They they come to bring the equipment to us. They come to store their stuff with us. So low impact in terms of traffic, which I'm sure everyone here can agree that, you know, 31 out there is pretty busy already. So if there's anything we can do to help with minimizing a little bit of that traffic, we're we're we're there. But um the reality is is those 35 people a day come to us and they get introduced to those shops that they otherwise might not see down in that valley that we we would be located in. Everyone should I'm sure you're all very familiar with this site. It's it's down set. It's a little hard to see from the road, so it's not it's not super visible. And uh we we would bring those new those new faces as they come into town, 35 a day. It adds up to introduce them to the shops that are down there, you know, and we've done that in many other communities. Um we have a presentation here that uh we we sent over that speaks to a little bit of uh it has Byron Center actually on there as a as in in terms of imaging. Um so you guys have kind of an idea what that looks like. It it talks a little bit about our adaptive reuse. Um, John touched on that just a little bit. Obviously, the Kmart building, it's built, the material's there already. Any redevelopment of that site is not going to reuse that material. You know, any any tear down and deconstruction is going to put that all into a landfill. It's it's all going to have environmental impact. We are not proposing the removal of anything. So, everything stays the same in terms of the building exterior, the the the the walls as they exist now. We are looking

to add and not remove in any way. So there is no landfill addition from our use. There's no additional greenhouse gas produced from, you know, the destruction of a building to build something else new. Um, so we totally reuse these buildings as they exist now. So we we have found that to be incredibly uh uh meaningful in a adaptive reuse sense. Um, we could tear these down and build brand new. We we have new buildings. Um, but when the the circumstances present themselves where we can maintain a good building that's there now and use it without doing damage to the environment, it's just it's perfect. It's perfect use, fits perfectly into that space. Uh, and again, it it limits the damage to the environment, which I know uh personally and I'm sure everyone here shares that, you know, we want to keep the community up here as as pristine as we possibly can and and prevent more landfill uh in in in mass going into landfills. So, um, if we kind of continue on here, it shows a proposed site plan. Uh, John spoke to that already. Obviously, we've got, you know, the the stalls for, uh, commercial users that we would market, um, and and add to the end of the building there, as long well as our own commercial box sales, retail sales um, there on the south end of the building. Uh, with this, you know, we called on three lanes for trucks. Um, the reality is, if you're familiar with the site, there's a garden center now where there's a a brick wall separating the front of the building. It kind of continues on the face of the building along there. Those trucks would be located on the other side of that wall. So, it wouldn't be in the front-facing parking lot. Everything would be located along the side of the building, shielded to traffic by that existing wall that that is there now. So, that's where those would be located, and that's that's the only place those would be located. So, we're very cognizant of of the concerns on on that end with the the trucks and trailers

overwhelming the site, and that's not what we're looking to do here with this one at all. So, you want to continue on to the next one there. So, this this is Byron Center here. This shows um essentially uh what we've done with the former Kmart here. Again, this was one of the last Kmarts ever built, late '9s. Uh good building, great bones, sat empty for quite some time. Strip center um just absolutely going into uh bankruptcy for the prior ownership because of the loss of the Kmart. Just everything bled out. Um and and subsequent to us purchasing this 6 years ago, it is now again at 100% occupancy with additions in the parking lot for uh further business growth. So we would hope to do exactly the same thing here. You know, we are aesthetically pleasing. We bring in customers and clientele. Uh we we don't move into a building like this and and just throw up, you know, a sign and don't maintain it. We we are a member of the community and we are very cognizant of our buildings looking good means that everyone else around us looks good. So this this is how it looks in this picture from when we started. That's how it looks today. So we maintain that. We we maintain our buildings. This just shows a little bit more of the breakup of the the parking lot there. And if you want to So this is just another one of our Kmart U adaptive reuses that we've had. This one is in Oshkosh. Just another just showing more of the same. This one was not in a strip center, but it gives you the good idea of kind of what we've done. So if you want to and again just another just a few examples of of existing Kmarts that we have already taken this on at at this point u you know as a whole we we've got 50 plus Kmarts across the nation probably skewing closer to a hundred former Kmarts that we've done this with.

So we we we know what we're doing. We this is in a suburb of Detroit over there. This was a really dilapitated Kmart. It was one of the first Super Kmarts and uh we we flipped that in a struggling area and it is now a I mean they've got 25 employees there. It it went from a blight to to what you see here now is as a pillar in the community for for growth as well as employment. And this just talks a little bit to our security features. You know, everything in our facility is monitored 24/7. Um, we have burglar alarms, you know, uh, we have cameras on site, we have personnel on site seven days a week. So, it it's not a place where we're just going to set a box outside for people to rent and no one will be on site. We we will have on-site staff here seven days a week manning both our retail operation as well as maintaining our storage facility. And then this just speaks a little bit more to our sustainability programs. You know, our retail showroom, we sell boxes, but we also offer a really cool box exchange, which basically if you're done with the boxes, a lot of people struggle. What do I do with that? Do I throw it away? And that unfortunately is a lot of what happens. People cut it up, they chop it up, they throw it away. Um, we allow them to actually bring them back, used, and put them in a a area for customers to take for free. So, we offer that in every one of our showrooms. It's a It's a good way for people to reuse the boxes. They're very good boxes. Um and and it doesn't have to be our boxes. It can be any boxes. As long as it's in a good usable condition for the next person, we offer that. Um you know, we have different things that we've added to our trucks over the years, the fuel economy gauges to make sure that they're uh maintaining good fuel economy on the road. And and and again, this just speaks to a lot of our our

sustainability programs that we have. We're a very forwardthinking company in terms of sustainability. We we know that we rent trucks and we know that that's something that has an impact and so we've done everything we can to limit our impact in every other way that we can. And so that's we we are always environmentally focused in every way that we can. So and that's that's it for our presentation there. So, the only other things I will say here, um I won't want don't want to take up too much more of your time here is just uh this Kmart up here uh has sat empty for a long time. Uh you know, we we have a good use in front of us here to redevelop this in a meaningful way for both us and potential commercial users. uh you know it it it will be meaningful to the community. You know, housing is always a question mark in every community that we're in. You know, we need more housing. We need more housing. So, what are we doing in Grand Rapids right now? They they're working on micro apartments. I'm not sure if you've heard of those. I mean, they're very small apartments. Uh they're kind of a a a gateway to a a better opportunity someplace else. It gets you a landing place. It gets you to where you're going, a much bigger place down the road. But in the interim, what do you do with your stuff, you know? So, that's where we go handinhand with those kind of developments is we we give them a good place to store their possessions where they're not going to have anything happen to them. They're wellkept. They're well preserved. Climate control storage, you know, there's nothing you can't store in there that will be damaged. Electronics, paintings, anything you you have, you know, your your uh inheritance from your parents that you want to keep good. uh it's all kept well with us so they move on to the next step of their life and it's the same up here as you develop more plans on what we can do for for housing up here and I know housing and affordable

housing is definitely always a question mark and it's always on the the mind of everyone in most communities is you know as we develop smaller homes for people to live in as a starter um our business allows them to keep the possessions they want while living in a smaller way until they can move to the next point in their life. So it it is meaningful to the community and it's meaningful to the goal of adding additional housing and capacity to a community such as Paskki up here. So with that, that's all I've got. Jeeoff, is there anything you wanted to add? Thanks, guys. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. This is part of a public hearing or or we are in a public hearing now on this on this proposal, this case. So

microphone. Oh, sorry. I thought didn't realize. There we go. Yeah. So, this is part of a public hearing. So, this is the public's opportunity to uh make any comments that you might have on this uh proposed redevelopment of our old Kmart building. So, if you'd like to come to the podium, please. And uh please state your name and your address. And typically we we try to limit people's comments to a couple minutes so that everybody has a chance to comment.

Okay. My name is Nette Graham. I live at 2907 Krauss Road here in Paskki. As someone who was born and raised here in Paskki, I remember when the corner of 131 and Sheran was a farm and bar boyer fence. So I've seen it all. I've witnessed a lot of changes here in the community over the years and I've always been pretty proud of what was represented. Sadly, in most recent years, there's been some changes that can't be undone, and I really don't want to see the K Kmart Plaza be one of those. Um, asking for change in zoning to fill the space is a poor decision for our community. And even though U-Haul appears to be a successful business, I'm not sure that it's one that will support our community with employment opportunities for our underserved population. I ask you to take into consideration and explore other opportunities such as Horhawks Farmtore. Not only would it be an asset to our community, but also an employer for several people. Additionally, they take bridge cards. Most of you know that as food stamps. Um, this allows our community to have an opportunity to buy highquality food for everyone, not just people that can afford it. Additionally, um, or I should say in closing, I would like you to take into consideration the needs of the community and not just the needs of the property owner. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Vanessa. Hello, Peter. And excuse the tremor of my voice. Actually, first time I've ever spoken on one of these. I'm 31. Um, with that being said, I moved up here 5 years ago from Lepier County. Now, I went down to Lepier County during the ice storm and actually I went and did ABC12 and WNEM5 to try and help my community that I came into here 5 years ago with everything we were all going through. I don't know how you guys do it every year. I'm still getting through winters after 5. It was a totally different city when I went down to Le Pier. I almost didn't recognize it. And it made me think of everything that we deal with here. You guys are special. You guys are different. It's not only tourists. It's up here in Northern Michigan. It's a different type of arctic cold. My cousin just came from St. Clair County. Lake Hiron, she's learning make Lake Michigan is like a whole different mother nature. With that being said, I'm sure that everything impacting housing in the way of storage facility would be great, but I think we're missing the big picture. Paskki again as the last woman just spoke. What did it look like 30, 40 years ago when you guys were all my age? This is going to affect your grandkids, your great grandkids, and every other generation. Every choice that you guys make, it's not just the community in the next 5 years from now. This is another big box store corporation. How many of those did you guys have 40 years ago? How about 10 years ago? They're going to employ what 10 people maybe maybe 15. My husband's a native to here. He's a bluecollar tradesman. 15 years experience. He started in his own very backyard here in Paskki. We stay small. Not saying that's the goal here. But we got to remember our community and not always big box stores because at the end of the day they stick a hiring sign, but is that paying for housing here that

we're already struggling with? How are they going to afford a storage unit when they can't afford to keep their lights on or a roof over their head? That affects our census and affects every last part of our taxes in our community on a daily. Vanessa Haliper, 11091 Picker Lake Road. That is all. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Any other comments?

Hi. Um, my name is Denise Paskki. I live at 141 Balsam Avenue on the east side of town. Uh, first I want to thank my neighbors for getting up and speaking. Um, and I want to thank you for giving us the opportunity to do that. I think the one thing that we can all agree on in this room is that Pitaski is a really special place. Whether you've lived here for 5 years, 50 years, or your family's been here for 300 years, it's a special place. And that's way for a reason because people that have sat in positions like yours have carefully crafted the way that this town is going to look. And I know that's a tough job that you guys are um balancing between keeping uh you know development, new things coming and keeping the character of this town. Um I think that the master plan exists for a reason. um it's you know our forefathers kind of telling us this is what we want it to look like in the future. So I'd be against a major amendment to that uh for warehousing and wholesale. Uh and thanks again for listening to us.

Thank you. Thanks.

Hi there. I'm Karen Dodge. I actually live in Bear Creek Township but have a Paskki address. Um, I object to this proposed site for the U-Haul storage. There were concerns raised at the August 2025 meeting where you all were discussing um this proposal and some of the I I have a couple points to talk about. It's already been mentioned a little bit, but um having this site there will involve a major change to the PUD and set an alarming precedent. that has already been said. The site currently has uses of mixeduse uh commercial, restaurant, multif family, residential. So, this would be a big change for um this area that would now include if this goes through would include storage, warehousing, and big equipment. It is fundamentally incompatible with the gateway character of the corridor. Uh, I also had heard a little bit of discussion about housing um, and however that might work out. I know a developer needs to be on board. Of course, affordable housing is what everybody's talking about, but I certainly would think that that would be a better um, option and benefit for the community. Thank you.

Thanks.

Anybody else? here in the audience tonight.

Hello board. Uh my name is Nate Hall. Uh I wanted to disclose that I own uh Conway Storage and we have been a uh independent U-Haul dealer. Some of you I know maybe have been in our office uh over the last 20 plus years that we've uh been in business. And um I would just ask you to flat out deny this. Uh I believe that any board should have all of the information presented right up front. and I think are missing just a few things. Uh didn't talk about the portable storage or um the July time when there's a 100 to 150 trucks and trailers which is confirmed in Traverse City and photographs. Uh H Hotton Lake would be the same. Uh this could be a mirror of H Hotton Lake. So if any of you uh could take time if if you were making your decision and just travel to Sue St. Marie and look at the Kmart and see if that's what we want here in our town or travel to Esanaba. Um, I would also like to bring it to everyone's attention in this room that this same company has a full wetlands permit in play to pave over a stream and fill in wetlands in a flood plane next to Olsen's in Pitaski and build a you guys could correct me 110,000 foot facility. So, it appears that we want to control the gateway to the north and south. Um, but it could be that that's all in play. that's public knowledge and uh it's in a public uh comment point for the state of um Michigan right now. So that's actually happening. So I just want to make sure you're all aware that uh there there are two things going on here. So I'm not sure um thank you guys for sitting on the board and um support you whatever decision you guys make. Thank you. We're all from the same community.

Thank you. Anybody else here uh in the room tonight that would like to make a comment?

Hi, my name is Christina Pes. Uh my address is 5471 Maple Hill Road in Paskki. Um I oppose U-Haul coming into town. Um I think we don't want to lose our small time town charm. Um, a lot of what they're saying sounds like they fit more in a big city and that's just not us. Um, and then even going back to the lady asking about employment. I mean, I doubt they would employ 10 to 15 people. I mean, what is it maybe two that would bring employment here to Paski if they opened it? And I just feel like our commercial and residential property options here in Pitaski is so limited that having U-Haul come and take this space is just a missed opportunity for a new business that's a better fit for our residents here. Um I think that's all. Thank you.

Thank you. Thanks. Uh, anyone else here tonight in the room that would like to make a comment before we go to see if there are any online comments? Hey there. Hello.

My name is Cindy Hicks. I'm not from Paskki, uh, although I've enjoyed visiting here quite a bit. I'm actually the senior vice president for US Properties Group. We actually own the center. Um, we've had multiple conversations. um about the property and just wanted to bring a couple of things um up that I've heard. I'm very sensitive to uh where I live and I know that y'all are very sensitive to uh your town and um we have owned this property for quite some time and as you know Kmart left we have gone to a lot of expense over the years of trying to make a fit for a retailer. Um this building is quite old. um as you all know and um it's um the brick and mortar part of it is in great shape. The interior is not. Um we did have a a couple of um tenants that we actually tried to pursue. Um the depth of the building is a problem for us. Uh from an economic standpoint, um we can't make it work. Um, we did we spent a lot of money on the Big Lots building uh to have Big Lots come in because we cared about the community. We cared about, you know, our bottom line, too. And basically, um, they went bankrupt. We did um, someone mentioned the Pets Smart deal earlier. John, I believe you mentioned that. And the depth of the building was problematic. We couldn't get um, the proper loading dock um, for them. It was quite expensive. So, we had to weigh our options and right now the building is is empty. Um, I know everyone talks about the uh gateway to Paskki and that property um is seemingly the gateway. Everyone talks about it. We've also talked about multi-res and you all know that we have spent a lot of money and a

lot of time looking at multi-res options and economically it's just not feasible and I know there's a sensitivity to um uh blocking the view of the bay as you come over the hill into paskki and my question has always been if you're worried about multi-res then if you're going to put multi-res there then that certainly is going to create a visibility problem to the bay. Um, so I just wanted y'all to keep in mind that we have as a landlord, we have um 27 properties in 10 states and um this is one of the properties that we've had an issue with on on leasing. Um I can assure you that we we are frustrated with it. Um but uh outside of U-Haul, we have not had any takers on this building. If you go down the street down um you I mean there's other retailers um that have taken quite a bit of land um and you have every retailer that's imaginable there. So um our hands are somewhat tied with that and I just would ask you to keep that in mind when you're making your decision because we've owned this building for quite some time and we've put our heart and soul in finding uh retailers and um our options are limited at this point. And so again, I I know that it's very sensitive. Um but right now it's it will be and will stay a dark building um unless we have someone like AU Hall to come in. And I know that you said that there's 31 to 35 cars a day and there's 5 to 10 maybe 15 people working. That's more than you have now. And so um I would ask you to take all of that into consideration um when you're making this decision. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

Um, is there anybody else here in the room tonight that would like to make a comment? Otherwise, are there folks on Zoom who would like to make a comment? Mr. Chairman, as part of the part of the public record, we do have a number of emails that have come into the city regarding this case. Uh, I have 14 of them here. um all of all of which are have expressed uh their opposition to the project or to the PUD amendment. I'll just read their names so they're part of the record. Joe Daly, Ross and Shelby Hamilton, Darlene Feathers, Kyle Wright, Kurt Zimmerly, Christina Feathers, CPA, Christopher Hathaway, Nate Fel, Rochelle Martinez, Allison Carman, Tana Baldwin, Laura Shaw, John Jablinsky, and Susan Perry.

It's actually Okay, thank you, Joe. Joseph, yeah, I was going to mention the letters that we have seen so far. Yep. And then are there anybody on Zoom that would like to make a a a comment on this proposed case? They need to raise their hand. Uh yes, if you would raise your hand, please, so that uh you can be called on if you'd like to make a comment.

Not seeing any. Okay. Well, no raised hands, so I guess um at this point at six, Mr. Chair, yes. Oh, sure. Yes, please. Thank you.

So, one one thing I I I want to touch on with you all is there's something of a misconception because of our size and success that we've had that we are just a nameless corporation. Our company was founded by the Shonne family um returning from World War II. Uh so returned to World War II, they saw a need. They they wanted to relocate to to California and there was no there was no way to do it. So our our founder um bought a trailer and you know he he took it to California and he worked out a deal with a local gas station to rent that trailer again. And that's kind of how U-Haul started. And it's built from there. And we are still owned by the Shonne family, the the same founders, the same the same folks who who initiated that drive to to bring us to where we're at. So, we are still a family-owned company in spite of the size. The size speaks to the need in in communities for U-Haul. Um, you know, it was brought up that we're in Sous St. Marie and Eskanaba, we're in Manaste. Um, you know, we we are in big cities and we are in small cities. Uh we we bring redevelopment especially to a building like this where it has gone dark and it is very difficult um as it's been spoken to tonight from ownership to to fill that type of building. Uh we do bring jobs to the community not just within U-Haul but without um a redevelopment of that site. You're looking at 10 to 15 construction jobs during the time that we'd be building out. Local construction jobs, local trades would be used. you know, folks here in Paskki, this would bring more to Paskki here. And then the folks that we would hire on would be from the community here. We wouldn't bring them in. I'll share just a little bit about myself. I don't want to take too much time here. I uh I came to U-Haul almost 20 years ago now. I started as a

part-time employee at a facility in in the northeast side of Grand Rapids. And from there I I moved up um I moved around to a couple of different stores, got my own store where I started making a good living as a general manager of a UW facility and I ran that in Lancing for 5 years until I came into the position that I've been in now for 11 years which is uh you know president of Northern Michigan here where I oversee the operations. I have no college education. I am not a person who you would look at and say gosh how did you know how did he get to where he's at? He has no college diploma. I work for an organization that that that promotes from within to folks who work hard, who want to do good work and want to work with their communities. And I was able to prove that. And when we come into a community like this, just like in Manaste, just like in Sue St. Marie, we hire locally, we promote locally, we we bring on folks to maintain our buildings to do the work. It's all local. We we keep it local. We promote from within. So, we're not bringing somebody else into the community here to run this place. We're finding someone here to bring on to to pay a good livable wage to staff it up and as the business grows we add to that. You know I we have some facilities that have less employees and as they grow as I spoke to the one in Detroit they have 25 to 30 employees at that one and that's Metro Detroit so obviously it's going to have more but this facility up here we expect to have 7 to 10 permanent positions at we're open seven days a week here 7 to 7. So that's not a twoman job. But anyone that tells you differently, I'd like them to help us understand how you man a store 7 days a week, 7 to 7 with two people. It just doesn't work. It's we have housekeepers that clean the storage. We have maintenance people who maintain the building. Groundskeepers have to be brought on either as a outside service or someone in house that we hire. So, uh we're not a traditional storage place. You know, we are so much more than that

and and our employment reflects that. So again, my story is one of, you know, from nothing to everything because of this company and every community we go into, I look to do the same thing because that's where I came from and that's what I want to do here. So again, I appreciate it. Thank you for your time, guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. To my comments, please. Yes.

Um I I mean, I know Nate disclosed he's part of a storage unit. I am also we own Pitaski self storage and we literally just opened and we are not full and I guarantee if you call any of the other facilities around here they have availability. So, why would we need U-Haul to come in and most likely undercut all of our prices? And then, yes, you have Kmart full now, but you've got three or four other local community members that have businesses that are now out of business because U-Haul can come in and decrease prices. And for someone that built these units themselves, we can't afford to do that. I just it's there's just no need for it. I I I guarantee if you make a few phone calls, you can find, you know, large storage units, small storage units, climate controlled. We have it here in Pitaski already.

Thank you. Love you. We have someone Ah, okay. There is somebody on attending via Zoom that would like to make a comment. Please go ahead. Yes. Can you hear me? Yes. Could you state your name and address, please?

I just want to make sure you can hear me. My name is Terry Herrera and I live on Artisian Lane um off of Pickrol Lake and Ellsworth Road. Um I lived in Texas. I'm born and raised here. I moved to Texas for 14 years. And there's a U-Haul on every corner, I swear to gosh, in there. And I just don't think it's something that Pasky needs. While I'm sorry that no one's um taken over a lease or anything like that, you know, the she could she could sell that building, I guess, if she wanted to. I just don't think it's a good fit and I don't think it's a good idea. That's all. Thank you.

Thank you. Anybody else um on Zoom that would like to raise their hand and make a comment, please? Okay. Well, seeing none, and um there's somebody

uh well, since you've already spoken, we're going to let this gentleman speak first, please. Artshaw, uh, 6336 Greenwood Road, Paskki. Um, the question, and I'm sorry I didn't come early enough. What's going on with the parking lots uh out front? Many store. I know the trucks are are going to be parked on the side. Well, there would be, as I understand it, there would, as shown in the site plan, there there would be storage units outside to

be two buildings out front there. So the balance of the parking lot would be left empty, but just in that furnace to the drop two lanes. Can you get to the site plan? Uh Lisa is going to find the site plan here. There we go. There. So

yeah, there would be those buildings there and then there would be we've been presented, you know, we would have landscaping again continuing what we've been spoken to from the August meetings and concerns that we tried to address there, you know, keeping things as shielded and down at the bottom of the hill as possible. From the road, you really can't even see into that area. So that's why we positioned them where they're at and we further add landscaping in the islands there to further shield. The other half the parking lot will go into the retail. And then as for the trucks and trailers, you know, again along where that four is right there and you folks have in your ordinance written in there how you deal with someone breaking your ordinance. If we fill that pump parking lot with our equipment, you have every right to come in and tell us and ticket us and have it out of there. So that was the preventative me is your ordinance does not allow us to have out. It has to be behind the building as as we have shown that's what our intention is to do and then it's fully enforceable on us that if we don't adhere to that obviously it's we have to then get them out of yard. So we fully cognizant of that and that that is our plan is to keep everything restricted to that side. So, my comment is going to be related to I don't know what they're proposing for what the buildings would look like, but I would hope there would be something that's a little more amendable than some of the uh current designs that you see out there that are pretty blah. And again, this is the entrance to town. And even though it's shielded somewhat, back when Kmart was built, there was a lot of effort put into shielding rooftop heating units and that for um visibility. So it didn't look things uh look uh too mechanical, I guess, is what

I want to say. So I would hope there would be some appearance considerations of that. And then the rest of the parking lot in the future, what would you allow in there? um if you only have x number of people coming to u access their area, what happens to the rest of the parking lot and what happens to the rest of the parking lot and the rest of the uh development there now that we don't have the big stores at some point something's going to change. Uh somebody's going to want something. So what appearances what visual impact do you want in that area? Thank you. Okay.

Thank you. on the trainer. That gives you a good idea. Like I said, visual impact. Thank you. Would you like to make one more brief comment?

So, as I say before, I was an outsider to here until the last 5 years. Sitting here, listen to everything. There's also a post on Facebook, which I get that they're not here, but if you guys actually paid attention to some of the stuff that they brought up, what people in the community that's on social media are stated they would like to see for this community is things that are smaller business-based because that's what we all rely on. There's no corporation. There's no extra bylaws. We already have Walmart, Meyer, Home Depot, everything like that. There's a lot of red tape that comes with it, including zoning. The other thing is people want more community-based. People already feel detached in the community. If we look right in downtown Paskki, we're already facing a lot of backlash with that. What do you see going downtown? That's where all of our boutiques are, our coffee shops. That's where our city is, our county building. How does that look? Leir. We're going to bring that up again for a second. Leier Center Building. You guys look this up in your free time. generated in 2023 census. Yes, it's a nonprofit, but in 2023 census public record, $700,000 annually. What they do is the same thing similar to what our county building does here in our fairgrounds, but they do it on a bigger level because they have bigger square footage. They still do weddings. They do flea markets. I grew up going to that flea market Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays, and Sundays. You could have 80 to 300 tables minimum even on a Tuesday and Thursday. You've got small businesses in there. You have coin dealers for your coin collectors that come up here. You have what you see on Facebook, people selling their stuff, e-commerce, they're doing at tables. You still have weddings. You guys have opportunities.

Excuse me. But I don't know that that's really relevant to what we're considering tonight. I I understand that the relevance point would be the square footage and how they're already struggling. That's something that could be brought into the community that would benefit the community as well as the land owner if this is something that wouldn't go through. But this is also the same things are being mentioned that they're not here to speak on it. This has already been brought up and this is where it's been successful in the same city size and population as Paskki and it's been there for 15 plus years. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. One more comment.

I was going to stay silent. Uh Jackie Hall, Conway Storage. I submitted a bunch of information for you guys. I hope you got a chance to review it. I know it was last minute. Um I just hope you do your homework. Visit the H Hotton Lake Center. Visit Sue St. Marie. I don't know if you submitted pictures. I did.

Okay. Um you know, they don't talk about We've been in business together for 20 years. We've had a great partnership and still do today. We provide a service that's needed in the community. Um, self storage is a quiet neighbor. I agree. They are not self- storage. They're self- storage. They're propane distribution center. They're hitch installers. They're moving and truck rentals. Um, the truck rentals are 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. You can go up to my facility and rent a truck off your phone and get the key out of a lock box at 2 am. It's part of their program. They're not telling you any of this. They're not telling you about the U boxes, the distribution center that they're going to have. They're going to stack U boxes in there three to four high. I showed you pictures. They didn't have any pictures of the trucks and trailers sitting on their parking lot in those photos. You didn't see any of them. There was over 150 last June in Traverse City at their facility. They come and they go and they do say they're variable and they do say there's lot limits and you do have to call to have them moved, but they move them from one place to the other. When I call, and I did recently, and they came and got them, I had 23 trucks sitting in my lot. I can't house 23 trucks. They came for six. They're not giving you the full story of what they do. They have a great business, but is this what our community wants to see when we drive into Paskki? It's messy. People drop trucks and trailers off at 2 a.m. They're loud. They're noisy. You have young drivers. You have 18year-old people that don't need a CDL that gets

in a 26- ft truck that can tow a car trailer, put their car on it, and leave that parking lot. No one has talked about how dangerous that is. We don't even rent trucks or trailers anymore. We just rent trucks just to help our storage customer and help our community. It's a side business. They're not just storage. Ask them for more information. visit the sites. I have H Hotton Lake pictures. The first thing that you see when you pull in the parking lot is big chain link fence. They do boat and RV storage. They have a huge propane sign. They're the largest independent retailer of propane in the United States. They're the largest aftermarket hitch installer in the United States. That's not in their plan. They're going to do it. They'll tell you tow their trucks. Who's going to tow their trucks? No one's going to tow their trucks or people are going to call and say it looks messy and then that's what you're going to have to deal with. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, one more. Okay,

Mary Lieberman, 1045 Lindella in Paskki. I just want to say in summary, first of all, thank you for your service. I know you're in a difficult position. You've been very professional in conducting this hearing and I appreciate you doing it for the public. But in summary, I just want to remind you as commissioners, you represent us, the citizens of EMTT and Paskki, not the U-Haul business that's trying to change the zoning. Please remember that. I think the community has spoken pretty soundly tonight and pretty unanimously and I just want to remind you of that going forward. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay, one more brief comment. Um I do want to um remind all of you that we have been in touch with um our tenants there and our anchor tenant right now is Hobby Lobby and Hobby Lobby has consented um to this um deal. So I just wanted to make y'all aware of that. they um they have been um in other centers where U-Haul has come in come in and taken a space that has been uh less desirable for other retail tenants. So, Hobby Lobby is on board and I felt like I needed to let you know that. Okay. Thank you.

Jeff Stefani, I'm the area district vice president for U-Haul. Um I'm also local to Michigan, born and raised here. spend uh many nights up north. Um it's hard to hear that we're being deceitful. We're not. So, you can ask us any questions. We'll be happy to answer them. Do we have these other facilities across the state that have different uh plans? Absolutely. I'm not going to deny that we do. This this isn't the footprint we called for here. So, we're showing you what we're proposing. That's what you guys are looking at. That's what you would be approving or not approving. If there's something extra, we would come to you and ask for that. We would have started with that. But that's not so this is a smaller version of what we typically do because that is the conversation we'd had with these folks in the beginning. That is what they we're we're not suggesting, but these are the back and forth conversations we had of what would fit in in this town and that is what we designed that for. So we have limits for everything. Sure. But we're not going to have a bunch of containers up here. We're not going to have a bunch of semis in the parking lot. It's just not true. So, it's hard to hear these things, but if you want ask us questions, we'll be happy to tell you. We'll be as transparent as we we can. You We owe that to you. You You guys owe us the same in return. So, thank you.

Thanks. One more. E.

Hi, Cynthia McWaters, 1047 Lindell. Um, I have to be very honest. I'm very opposed to this plan. I too have lived here a long time. One thing that struck me on this um presentation tonight was they made reference to larger cities. We're not a larger city that can compete with say Grand Rapids for instance. I can't see Kmart being turned into a um Planet Fitness. You have to have a population in order to support the big businesses. We don't have that population. The population that is here are very concerned about our town and how it's going to look in the future. And I can truly say we're not going to like what's proposed. Um, as far as the job there, again, it's the in larger cities, they have the opportunity to provide more jobs with this project. I don't see that happening. They mentioned the constructor construction workers. Yes, they'll be here until the construction is finished. Then it's down to how many employees for I don't see it working. My opinion and please go along with it. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Okay, we've got to be close to the end here. Is this is going to be the last call and then uh we're going to close the public hearing. So I guess that's it. Thank you all for your opinions tonight and let's uh close the public hearing at 7 o'clock. So that concludes our public hearing, but now we go on to the discussion of this um application under old business since it had been brought before us before. So John, is there anything else you'd like to say relative to commission discussion or anything? No, I'm fine right now.

Okay. Um, any comments that commissioners would like to make on this topic because we have uh this as a case to decide upon tonight or not decide upon. I have a question for the applicant. Okay. Um, one of the public comments mentioned um that a project is in the works or you know in development or near the Olsen's um supermarket. Is that factual?

So that is factual in that we are exploring that as well but they're not saying application there. So right now we are in front of the site but have to plan. We we're not just doing this to try to force our way. strong again all pleasant facilities. We are in small and large similar if not identical projects.

Okay, you answered my question. Thank you. I appreciate it. Um, and I have a question for the public in general. If you could just show a raise of hands. Um, in their packet that they put together, part of the plan was to create two 4,000 foot retail spaces within the Kmart Plaza. Did you all see that in the packet? If you did, can you raise your hand for me? Thank you. That was it. Okay. Thanks, Carolyn. Any other comments that commissioners might have, Re?

You know, I desperately wanted to find a way to support this. I'll be honest, and I'm sure I'm in the minority because I think, you know, there was a time when that building was built that it was the gateway to Paskki, but it's not anymore. I mean, the gateway starts at Meyer. the untrained eye doesn't really perceive the difference between Bear Creek Township, uh, the tribal development and where the city starts. And I I do recall when this many years ago when when this uh development was uh proposed and ultimately approved that the the preservation of that vista was a big uh issue at that time. And um uh so I I you know I look at that corridor and you know today uh you know that was before Hampton Inn that was before all the big box stores everything that took off in Bear Creek Township. So you know I'm I love our town. I born and raised here but that's a pretty typical commercial corridor. One of the busiest uh north of Traverse City and outside of Gaylord I suppose. So, it's just it's a commercial corridor. That's really what it is. And you don't really get the aha thing until you sort of get past uh Hampton Inn or so. I mean, that that's, you know, and the hospital is expanded. So, you know, this is not the the vista hasn't been preserved, I guess, is just what I'll say. There's there's some, but it's certainly not what it was when I was a kid and and any of you know you all who have grown up here. So, I desperately and and I think that the the housing situation is desirable but highly unlikely. I mean, I I appreciate the comments from the building owner. And so, really, the question uh you

know, for us is would we rather just see it empty or or do we want to see it used on some level? Uh, I would like to see it used on some level, but I really don't like the presentation of all the orange. Uh, I don't think the units are sufficiently screened. Um, I think I think you could do better than than what you presented to us. And so I, you know, as much as I would like to see an empty spot uh used somehow and and hats off to them wanting to to sort of, you know, redevelop a right-sized retail space or two. Uh I think that's meritorious and and I, you know, if this doesn't happen, you know, I hate to say it, but I just think nothing's going to happen. Are we going to be happy with that for another 10 years uh of it just just sitting there? I I I guess that's a you know a question we have to look at. But in its current form I I can't support it. Albert,

I was trying to just get a handle on the, you know, we're doing a major P uh amendment or asking for a major amendment on a PUD that was made in 1989. And so I went back because I don't I think the city because of a sewer backup or something, some of the old paperwork on this is not there. But um there were three articles um in February and March of of 1989 when this was approved and it was approved for the western 20 acres being commercial 4.1 in between as green space to also help with the drainage and then uh the rain remaining 10 plus acres or so was for residential. So commercial and residential is what it was designed for. None. None in no place in there was sto there storage. No place in there was warehousing. Then if you look at our current zoning, we can do warehousing in basic and correct me if I'm wrong because I you have this better than I do, but basically do it in our industrial districts. That's the only place that we can do warehousing. And this is maybe not full-on warehousing like you think about, but when you think of the the way it works, people coming in and out of a storage area. It's not it's mini warehousing, but it's warehousing. And would we do this any place else? I mean, we're basically in a B3 area where B3A is right up against there. B3B is around the corner. Kllins, I believe, is a B3 AB. Would we put storage right there in the middle of the parking lot? I'm not sure we would. And so that's my, you know, my reason for it. And I understand, I really understand, I feel concerned for the property owner and for that area to be developed. And I think it needs to be de developed, but it needs to be developed right with

something that will be meaningful for Paskki for a number of years. in the newspaper articles. It took 19 months from the beginning to the end to get that approved. There was a hotel planned for that site that they had to take off to get it approved because it did take away the vista. I respectfully disagree with Re Smith, our fellow commissioner here. I think the view of the Bay begins at the holiday end. And for me, I got married in that church. seeing that church every time I come into town and I half my family got married in that church and seeing the downtown it's special to me and for that reason I can't support that this you know it's not the right purpose of this at at this time I take the 19 months I take the 20 months I take it time to get the right thing there it was the right thing 20 from 1989 to when did it close

2014 14 so it was the right thing for 25 years. So I'd like to have us look at a 25 year project here. Something that's going to be a right thing for a long time.

Bob or Max or Richard, do you have any thoughts you'd like to add?

I might say something here. Um, yeah. I I just want to say that uh I've been overwhelmed by the community's uh push back on this and frankly, you you have to take that into consideration. And um even though I'd like to see some development on that site, everybody would. U maybe this isn't the right the right uh project and we may have to wait longer and I uh uh I do appreciate uh the comments from the uh owners uh and I understand their plate but uh I also have to listen to the community. Thanks

Max. I fear that I'm going to echo um my fellow commissioners and uh residents of Paskki and saying I don't think that this is the the right use for the property. I do appreciate you moving the um tenant spaces as we discussed in August. I think your best chance of getting the public on board with a major change in use would have been filling the entire facade with tenant space and redirecting traffic perhaps. Um, but I would have to respectfully deny this motion. Thank you.

Bob, would you have any comments on this at this point? Oh, I've got comments, but most of them aren't for here. Um, I too am from this area. Um, I remember coming up over this hill and the bay from the holiday in um was all farm fields to the left and to the right. Um while I recognize that development has changed the um vista from the top of the hill the um and the fact that it is down low as we've talked before um I think it would be shortsighted to um grant something like this into a space that has other potential. Um for an example would be in Acme where the um Kmart that was there um is now five building units and they maintain retail. Um I just it brings me joy every time I go by because there's so many people living in those places now. So I'll hold my verdict, I guess, until we do a formal vote.

Okay. Um well, I guess that leaves me to make any comments that that I might want to make. And I sort of believe that um because we have a limited amount of commercial space in town that um since this was originally the PUD was set up to be a multi-use commercial and residential development which did not include storage and warehousing that I feel like that that's how it should remain and that the PUD should not be amended to allow that. So, um, again, I I appreciate the owner's perspective. I I know that, you know, it's it's a tough situation to be in. There's a lot of strip commercial development around the country that's experiencing similar kind of issues as as retailing and and autooriented commercial has really taken a hit from the internet and and other types of shopping that Americans do these days. But I I still think the highest and best use is to try to subdivide that building into smaller spaces there. Although you have some smaller spaces that are unused at the moment. So that's probably not a good possibility either. So I do sympathize with the plight that the owners have, but again I I don't feel that I could support this amendment. So, we're at a point where uh would would any of the my fellow commissioners like to make a motion?

Um let's see if I can find the the right page. I would make the motion that we deny.

Okay. Um, based on the documentation submitted by the applicant, the public record, the planning commission review of the application and site plan, I make a motion to recommend to the Paskki City Council the denial of the application to include warehousing and storage as a use within Crest View Commons planned unit development with the following. The inclusion of warehousing and storage in the Crestview Commons planned unit development is inconsistent with the original intent of the planned unit development as a commercial hub for the community. The inclusion of warehousing and storage in the Crestview Commons planned unit development is inconsistent with the vision and goals of the livable Paskki master plan which classifies this property as mixed use to accommodate commercial and residential development. Okay, thanks is our support for that motion, Albert. Uh, any further discussion on the commission? Okay. Uh, could our zoning administrator take a make a roll call vote, please?

Smith, no. I mean, yes. Okay. I'm sorry. Okay. Moss, yes. Newman, yes. Demer, yes. Freed, yes. Yes. Meridian, yes.

Okay. Well, it looks like it is a unanimous vote to not approve the application. So, I'm sorry to uh your application. Sure. appreciate all the hard work you guys have put into this, but I think most of us think that it's not a a bad use for our community, not a bad facility for our community, but that it's it simply is not the right location for it. I think that sort of summarizes what I'm hearing people think. So, thank you for all all the effort that you put into this. And uh we'll move on to our new business, which is to schedule a public hearing regarding

the former Leo's Lounge. It's a special condition use request because part of the conversion is to construct a 4unit co-living space on the lower floor of the building. Um, maybe we'll let the room clear out here for a second before we we move ahead, but

John, do you have any comments to make on on this?

Yeah, I'm just, you know, public hearing. I give you the background. A couple of months ago, the planning commission amended uh the uh appendix A of the zoning code section 901 to allow below grade uses. And one of the uses allowed below grade is a is co-l livingiving space. uh the developer of the property and their architect have programmed in to the lower level uh a speak easy plus a 4unit co-l livingiving space for their employees as part of the the code that's a special conditional use which requires a public hearing and a review by the planning commission this memorandum is basically we need a motion to schedule the public hearing for February 18th and at which time you'll get the full application on all the plans.

Okay. Would anybody like to make a motion to schedule the that public hearing for February 18th? I motion to uh schedule a public hearing for February the 18th. 18th. Thank you, Max. Support. Bob. Thank you. All in favor? I. Okay. Looks like we have a another public hearing next month. And uh that concludes our new business. And so now we have u a zoning ordinance update, I guess, from John and Lisa, please.

Uh the we have our we have our special meeting on January 29th at at 6 o'clock to talk about zoning districts. I gave you some homework. I put together a spreadsheet that shows all the commercial districts, what's permitted in each district, and uses that are special conditional uses. I did that intentionally because I needed to educate myself about how all of the districts are structured relative to the uses. And the ones that are that show up in multiple districts, I highlighted them in red. So you can see on the on the on the sheet a lot of the uses appear in each of the the different business districts. Um and I gave you a copy of the zoning map that just shows the business district so you can compare the district and the uses to the geographical area in the city to get a put some context together.

Okay.

Other than that I want you just to take it home and look at it. If I I will send you because the type is small. I will send you a PDF version tomorrow of both the map and and the the spreadsheet so you can you can look at it on your computers. But I think that's one of the things that we want to talk about next at the next meeting is the residential districts and the commercial districts. And I did the same thing for residential, but uh it's not quite complete. And I'll send that out to tomorrow as well. So you can see kind of the common the common land uses in each of the districts and how they vary a little bit with the intent in mind. Do we have an opportunity to consolidate some of these districts together?

Okay, that that's what I want you to think about. Okay. I don't have any particular recommendations at this point, but this is kind of like homework for you guys. Homework. Yeah. Um, we have our homework.

The only other thing I will mention is I don't have the exact date. Uh I didn't want to make it prior to public hearing, but uh EMTT County uh planning commission who handles the zoning for I don't know maybe eight or nine townships uh a couple of weeks ago put a moratorum in place I think until September uh not to consider any more commercial storage facilities because they're evaluating their zoning text and they're trying to get a handle on the no I think I sent you spreadsheet that showed you all of the there's quite a few in the county. Yeah. Um but it wasn't germanine to their application. Yeah.

But I did want to let you know that in the county, not all townships are under the county zoning ordinance. Uh but the ones that are are under a moratorum until they they can refine their zoning language in terms of how they're going to review these in the future. Yeah, they seem to be popping up like mushrooms in the spring. Yeah. So, just wanted to let you know that. Okay. Thank you.

Um, all right. Well, we're at uh item eight, which is commissioner comments. Are there any thoughts that anybody has this evening to pass on to the rest of us? Bob. So, I just want to thank fellow commissioners for the review of the UAL facility proposal. Um I think there was a lot of passion um and a lot of fact and a lot of history involved with that. So it was a tough decision. Part of me was leaning as was voiced as the other one the other way but the u original use of the PUD and again that view of the thing was this to there was was a big part of my decision but I know this was a tough one. So thanks thanks everyone. Okay, thanks Bob Albert. Yeah, I just most of the public's left, but I really want to thank the public for coming. I been on the commission now for a little over a year and often we have public hearings with the audience of zero or two or three and I really really appreciate the public coming out and we have some major things coming before the commission um in terms of our zoning that it'd be very helpful for us as commissioners to hear what the public has to say. So I'm I'm hopeful that we have good turnout. It controversy is tough, but controversy will build a better community. And so I I appreciate you all coming up. Thank you.

Good comment. Yes. Um Okay.

Uh can I just ask one thing? Um you gave us this uh winter sports park plan. Um it seems like it's all dead now uh based on city council, but can you comment on this or what the purpose for this? Well, I wanted I wanted the planning commission to for information only to see what the master plan was even though that you know I know at I know at the city council meeting they they did not approve to move move ahead with the shelter or the for the ice rink. Uh that that was that's only one of the components of the overall winter sports park master plan. But I want wanted you to see the results of all the community engagement, all the planning that went in because at some point in time, some of these projects may come up. I mean, they may not be the shelter or the pavilion, but they could be modifications to the, you know, the skiing and the sledding hills. It could be the installation of of splash pad for the kids and playground equipment, but it's all in the plan. It's it's quite extensive master plan for the property. Plus, I thought it was also important that there's quite a history with that property that dates back to 1905

and it used to have a zoo, which surprised me. Right. So, but I think you you have you have to you have to you know, it's part of the master plan process. There is a history with it. Yeah. And it's it's a pretty important piece of the Paskky's history. Yeah. Kind of like Harbor Springs Deer Park is Yeah. Paskki had a similar thing. So, it's for information only. I wanted you to be aware parks and recreation commission has a copy and there'll be a presentation to the city council in a couple weeks on the master plan results. Okay, great. Thank you, John. Any other updates that uh you or Lisa have for us? Just wanted to let Sorry,

I just wanted to let you all know I did put a memo in front of you. Um the zoning board of appeals met on January 6th and they were asked to do an interpretation of required rear yard as our ordinance does not have a definition specifically for that. There is a definition for rear yard but not required rear yard. So and there was a interpretation difference between staff and the applicant that was seeking a variance. So after um much discussion, the board did determine that a required rear yard is defined as the minimum rear yard required based on the setback for the dis the zoning district, excuse me, measured from the rear property line. So essentially, it's the width of the property and the required rear yard setback. That's the area of the required rear yard. So just so you're all aware,

that is what the it includes the extension of the sideyards then you're saying because it would be the whole width of the lot. So yes, technically the sideyards are for are between the front setback and the rear setback. Those are your sides. So it would Yeah. So it's essentially the rear the required rear yard set back times the width of the lot. That's the required rear area. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. But it's the 25% of that. So for accessory structures, which was what they asked was yes, 25% of that area is what would be allowed for an accessory structure in that area. Is that enough area? Um on a 50 foot wide lot, it would be I believe 437 and a half square feet.

What did we say our minimum was? Did we change our zoning? It's 600. Is that's for an ADU, right? Accessory structures are smaller. 100 square feet maybe. No, we don't have it. We don't have a it's the 25% of that require require barard this is or forward this is just the board's interpretation for other variance requests or does this this is this is the this is their they basically gave their interpretation of what the ordinance intends that to mean. So going forward that is how that will be applied. So that definition would be in our new zoning ordinance as an example. Maybe not. Yeah. Only for interpretation.

Yeah. Your interpretation essentially is the the the word of the ordinance essentially. So variances only or for no mean. So that rule applies to every application today as today. Yeah. But if we start looking at current character there's parts of town that have 50 foot lots. My parents was 48 by less than 100. There's not much yard left to do any at all expansion if somebody wanted to. So, and you only get 25% of set. So, I think there's been a that's if it's detached. So,

that's building garage.

Yeah. And and I think that I want to point out this interpretation is for the current code, not the proposed code because one of the things in the proposed code we have to think about is if you want to allow ADUs either by by right or by special approval. Many communities now are allowing them to be built 10 feet from the sideyard setback in the rear of the lot. So some of the new dimensions are the sideyard actually extends the entire length and then the front yard is between the sideyards and the rear yard in order to provide that dimension of where you put that ADU. So th the this type of discussion that the zoning board had is pretty critical in terms of how you dimension out a lot. So when you get into the new code, if the planning commission want we do allow in town ADUs, we have to really figure out geometrically where they can go and then what those dimensions are going to be.

Maybe depending on what the request is, it's possible to have both sets of lines work depending on the you know the correct the topic that's being requested or or the right improvement that's being requested. But that's something that we have to think through on the new code in terms of ADUs. Well, I think that um fulfills our agenda tonight. So, is there any other comments anybody wants to make? Other other than that, I guess we'll close our planning commission meeting of tonight at 7:30.