Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Well, you know, the interesting thing is that with new Trump policies, you know, the meeting more clarification. What's that? I don't know. I don't watch the news.

difficulties. We are back. Um, and you can live stream us. We want you to know that we did move the agenda items and we're doing the surf club item which is 4A first. So, we've had the staff report on the surf club and I believe now we are going to have a co a report from code enforcement. Am I correct? Yes, that's correct. And um the TV station will bring it up in just a second. Thank you.

There we go. Mitch, um can you pass this to Mitch? [Music] Uh so good evening, Madam Chair, members of the planning commission, fellow city staff, and members of the public who are joining us tonight. Uh my name is Mitch Naban. I'm the city's code enforcement supervisor. Uh and among other things, I oversee our city's uh enforcement program. Uh so what I prepared for you tonight is um just a highle review of uh some of the information and data that we have uh collected um largely since the surf club went operational back in the fall of 2024. Um during my time with our city's co-mp compliance department, I've actually been uh involved with this project assigned to mitigating noise uh going back to the initial development stases in the test wave in I believe it was in April or uh May of 2020. um kind of seen uh had some interaction with the ownership group, have some interaction with management on site um through the different progressive steps they've taken to uh to both test the wave, develop the wave and then get to state where they've been operational. So u have a lot of experience uh onsite at this facility uh working with uh working with this particular business. Um, apologies, I'll lean in. Uh, so picture here on this slide are just some reference points. Uh, so in the middle is a satellite overview image of the Palm Springs Surf Club. Um, there's been some some data callouts. So, if you notice kind of in the the southwest corner, which is bottom left corner, um those three buildings that are identified are the wavemaking system

pump houses. Uh there's one that is immediately to the north of the pool, one immediately to the west, and one to the south. Um so, the um these are the buildings that house the the the machinery that produces um produces the waves. Um these are also the um the buildings immediately to the south and west are the two buildings that generally uh are the source of the of the noise that um has created these impacts on the surrounding neighborhoods to the south across the wash. Um if you notice that blue dot along that concrete paved area, that's the bike path. Um that's generally where we conduct our uh noise observations. So that's where myself and my team have set up. Um there's an image to the left there that shows uh what that looks like. That's our um noise level measurement device, our decibel reader um that's positioned on the bike path uh which is immediately adjacent uh to the south property line of the nearest wave making systems uh pump house. So that's that's where we are collecting our logged data that's incredibly close to the the property line. Um and and generally our our noise measurement procedure u while we get a lot of reported concerns from the neighbors that are across the wash. Um part of our process is once we've identified the source of the noise uh we make our observation from the nearest available point uh just beyond the property line uh to conduct our logged readings. Additionally, we will then reposition over if we if it's known where the reporting party is. Uh we'll conduct a secondary observation from that uh from that location to get an idea of what exactly they're experiencing as well as what the noise level is um just beyond the property line. And then on to the right, um, you know, again, when we talk about our city's noise ordinance and what the noise level limit is and what's a what's a noise violation, um, there is a set limit, a noise level limit. Um, it's

broken up into three different time periods throughout the day. Uh, there's a 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., 6 p.m. to 10:00 p.m., and then 10 p.m. overnight to 7:00 a.m. Um, during the the daytime hours, uh, our city's noise ordinance allows variation above that. So, um, that table on the right is the time durations correction table. So, during the daytime hours, which is, uh, defined within our municipal code as the hours between 7 a.m. and 10 p.m. Um, in addition to what the permitted noise level limit is, uh, there there are allowed, uh, to have that variation above that set limit uh, for very brief periods of time um, measured each hour. uh getting into kind of what the and again this this log data is pulled from our measurements uh measurements specifically related to the wave making system. So this have some slides later on that uh will display some information about the special event noise the music uh music noise. So these um these particular logged readings and and this graph displays noise that's isolated specifically to uh the wavemaking system from that vantage point of what was on the previous slide. Uh the top graph shows uh just a a wave profile that's generally in compliance with our city's noise ordinance. So you'll notice that orange line that is our uh the permitted noise level limit uh for this particular property from 7 a.m. to 6 p.m. that noise level limit is 70 dB. Um so that's what that orange line is representative of. And as you see that you know that blue information on the graph that's where the uh those are the data points uh from our logged data. So when we're taking decibel readings, um the data is logged at 1 second intervals. Um so again, it generates a lot of data points, um it's continuously monitoring and and these two graphs are generally

representative of the the most common wave profiles that we have seen um during our time observing uh while the while the business has been operational to the public. So the top is again a compliant wave. You'll notice um the what's that?

Sure. Yeah. Uh so on the uh top half you'll see fewer waves in each set uh and more time in between sets. So that the top graph is representative of of generally three to four waves per set um for a total of 1 minute and 35 seconds in duration with 70-second uh intervals in between sets. Uh and then the second half of that top graph, uh you'll notice that there's a pause or a break in the in the session. Um and you'll see that there's more waves in each set and less time in between. So, um it's approximately six to eight waves per set um with a 2 minute and 50 second total duration of each set with around 55 seconds of uh interval in between sets. Uh so again, we would look at that as that is a good wave profile operating and compliant. Um you'll notice the the numbers uh that are below that's the time of of each value each second that it was at that particular range. So the green is good. Um as it gets to red that's progressively bad. Um so you'll see that in that top graph the the noise um as the wave is is kind of ramping up and creating those waves. um it's generally living in that um that range between 70.1 dB um up to I believe it's 76. Um looking at the bottom graph again that's um you know again over an observed 60minut period um the frequency and the amount of time above that permitted noise level limit because of the amount of waves in each set is representative of a profile that has been found in violation. Uh so we do see this occasionally. Um again consistent amount of waves per set throughout the 60 minutes. Um approximately six to eight waves. uh 2 minutes and 50 seconds duration and approximately 80 to 90 seconds in between sets uh over that observed 60-minute period uh with no

extended breaks kind of breaking up those two uh evenings. And then when we're looking at the compliant wave profile um as it gets into the later evening, so outside of that highest level of noise range from 7 am to 6 pm. So essentially, if the surf club were uh operating their wave system beyond 6:00 p.m. um you lose 10 dB of noise. The noise level limit resets to 60 dB. Um and again, this graph on the bottom half is representative of what that looks like. Um you'll notice a lot more blue over that orange. That's not a good thing. Um so again uh looking at the u the bottom graph it's uh the same profile um but the uh the waves are now hitting in that plus 11 to plus 15 decel range whereas when it was compliant from 7 a.m. to 6 p.m. they were in that uh plus 3 to plus 6. Um, and then both the frequency and duration of the wave sets would need to be reduced um, even with the compliant wave before 6 p.m. to to be able to fit within what's allowed above the permitted noise level limit. And then when again looking at the non-compliant wave um similarly you know looking at both the frequency and duration each set um generally exceeds the permitted limits by 3 to 6 dB um which would be in violation as it gets beyond 6 p.m. um with the noise level limit threshold reducing you have a lot more blue above again that's bad. Um, so those generally fall in the plus 15 to plus 18 decibel range. Uh, which again, if we're going back to the time durations correction table, um, you know, you're really only allowed to be within those ranges for, you know, one to two minutes per each observed 60-minute window. Um, so it really

limits your ability to operate the wave as they desire, uh, within each hour to maybe one set uh, one or two sets. Uh some more uh observational references here. Again, this is um looking at the uh distance to neighborhoods and and how it relates to the surf club. Um specifically from the uh wave system, um Glenn had mentioned it was around 915 ft to the nearest residence on East Cherry Hills. Um it's about 1,200 ft uh to the area near Cherry Hills and South Brentwood Drive. Um it's about 1,900 feet to the area near the 2100 block of South Brentwood Drive. That's generally where um the most reported concerns uh from the uh report from the reported concerns that weren't submitted anonymously uh when they were submitted by neighbors who supplied their address. Um that's the general area of houses that were um that expressed those uh negative noise impacts. Uh in the Melody Ranch neighborhood um is the nearest residence is about 1300 feet. Um and that's located in the Seven Lakes um country club off of Desert Lakes Drive. Um I'm not aware of any reported concerns that we've gotten from them. Most of the reported concerns have come from uh residents of the Tacitz Creek Golf neighborhood. And again, that's specifically related to uh the negative noise impacts that were created by the wavemaking system. Uh now we're looking at the We lost it. when we're looking at the the amphitheater. So, the um the area where the special events, the larger scale um live entertainment events occur, um those are generally in the southeast corner. Um so, you'll notice the the sound waves that are kind of emanating from that on the graph. Uh we have received concerns from um uh from neighbors who reside as far as the Villa

delos Flores neighborhood which is still part of the Tacos Creek Golf Course neighborhood but um that's about 2300 ft away and again sound travels um especially at lower frequencies uh on a cold night a lot farther. Um and then uh how that relates to the other portions similar to the Tacos Creek Golf Course neighborhood is 940 ft to the nearest residence on East Cherry Hills Drive. 1500 ft to the uh area near East Cherry Hills and South Pebble Beach. Uh 1947 ft approximately to the area uh near the 2100 block of South Bwood Drive. So again that area in between 1500 and 1900 square ft or 1900 ft distance wise from that um that amphitheater area is generally been the source of most of the reported concerns that we had received. Um and that's specifically related to the um to some of the larger scale uh musical events.

What time have you received those complaints? So, um, with those events, the like the festival related events that are that occur at the facility in, um, in April are put on between 12:00 p.m. and 6 p.m. Um the we have recently received some reported concerns about some events associated with the surf club's uh night swim I think is what they're promoting it as. Uh which if you look at the um the overhead of the uh of the facility it's the they usually host those in the area around the um the lazy river and pool that it's kind of more central. Um, so those and those will come late at night because those uh those events generally occur in the in the later night uh hours up until about 10 p.m. I think is when they end. Most of the reported concerns uh associated with the wave making noise have come um in the morning, the early morning hours. Um and then obviously the music festival event related noise has been uh in the afternoon and the evening times. Um, looking specifically at some of the a couple of the larger scale amphitheater concert events. Uh, so going back to April of this year, there was a couple of festival related events that were hosted at the Surf Club. Um, these concerts took place on both Saturdays and Sundays for consecutive weekends from 12:00 p.m. to 6 p.m. Um, the log data, which is going to be shown on the next slide, was observed on Saturday, April uh, April 19th, 2025 from 1 p.m. through the conclusion of the concert that day. Um, that data was logged at 1 second intervals. Uh the event wrapped up shortly after 6 p.m. I think it was like 6:12 uh p.m. Uh the noise readings that we that are going to be shown on the next slide are largely going to be consistent with how the event was held that following um that following Sunday. Um as well as the

previous Saturday and Sunday. There wasn't a whole lot of variation uh from the data that we received. Um specifically for those events, uh there were 14 reported noise concerns logged. Um that's broken down by weekend one and weekend two. Uh so weekend one we had 11 reported concerns. Um weekend two we had three reported concerns. Um the reported concerns were almost exclusively received from neighbors uh from the Tacos Creek Golf Course neighborhood and and referenced largely the base vibration as the source of the nuisance. And then again this is just a visual of kind of what that event looked like over a period of a little over five hours. Um obviously the orange line is the permitted noise level limit for this particular day. Um and this time it was 70 dB. You'll notice a drop off at the end. Uh that's when we eclipse 6 p.m. and that noise level limit dropped to 60 dB. So um you know again this uh ultimately this profile was found in violation. Uh there was a notice of violation, a citation that was assessed to the surf club um relative to these findings. Um, generally what we're going to see during an event, you're going to see kind of those spikes above. Um, but again, the goal of the noise ordinance and and what it allows, we want to see fewer of those in kind of less thick um sections uh for that to be for that to be a compliant profile. Um, overall like maximum noise, I don't think there was anything that measured over the plus 24 dB that are generally allowed. Um it's just you know the the noise that was observed was largely um maintained within that plus 11 to plus 15 range which each hour you don't get a whole lot of allowance in. Um that is all I have um to present for now but I'm available uh if the board has any questions. I'll turn it back over to Glenn and Chris for now.

Questions of the code officer. Are there any? Yes, Commissioner Mororrow. Um, for the the readings that you just showed us, were those taken on the bike path um or were they taken in the actual neighbor neighborhoods? Sure. So, those readings that I that I showed um for for the the compliant wave profile or for the the amphitheater event? Uh for both.

For both. So for the uh for the wave profile, those were taken from the bike path immediately to the south kind of near the southwest corner. Um for the uh for the festival specific for the amphitheater concerts, um those readings were taken from the the neighboring property. Um the the Desert Water Agency um allowed us to set up um to to be able to facilitate some readings from their property. Um, and we were located roughly 150 feet um, uh, east of the stage setup, right? But you don't have any readings from 900 to,500 ft away.

We have taken logged readings generally when we're doing those observations um, unless the the readings are are spiking from the bike path in excess of 84 dB. So for a compliant wave profile or even that non-compliant profile that we were seeing where it was in that plus three to plus six range um the way that sound travels across that wash those 900 ft does not uh register on our logged uh noise level meter above the ambient noise. Again there's um you know there's a lot of traffic on gutry coming over that bridge. uh there's a lot of trees, there's a there's airplanes going over. Um so generally the um even if we are finding the the log data showing that they're in violation from the bike path. Um a lot of times it's not measuring above what the ambient readings are of about 45 to 48 dB on any given day depending on what the wind's doing, depending on kind of what the traffic is doing. So it's not causing a spike. There have been times where it has, but generally uh most instances it's not causing any spikes above that measured ambient level from the neighborhood.

Thank you, Vice Chair Lion. When you receive a complaint from a resident, uh, do you always respond and do you respond in person or do you go to the site, take measurements, and then if it warrants it, talk to the the resident who has complained?

Sure. Yeah, thank you for the question. Um, so whenever we receive a report of concern, depending on if it was submitted anonymously or if there is a reporting party to follow up with, we will reach out to them. um it it generates a an in-person response from one of my code officers. Sometimes it's me. Um and and those are usually pretty quick, so they're within 20 minutes depending on availability, depending on what time, but we have officers that work seven days a week. Um and generally have our city covered from around 6:00 a.m. to about 1:00 a.m. And those are, you know, we haven't really received any reported concerns outside of those uh times. So, uh, when we are getting those reported concerns, we are responding to them in person very shortly after we receive them. Um, our first response is generally going to be the bike path. Um, especially if the reported concern is related to the wave making noise. Um, so we're going to respond there and we're going to get an idea of what the operating conditions are. Um we have at times noticed um especially if we're seeing uh reported concerns in the early morning hours um that the rollup doors of the the pump houses may be open because they're you know they're working on something or they're having issues with some of the the the heat elements in there. Um and when we notice that those rollup doors are open, we essentially have the data to support that um if they continue to operate that that system for that entire hour, it's going to be in violation of the noise ordinance. Um so again, we we take enough log data at that at that point to to confidently make an a determination of whether or not uh a violation of the noise ordinance exists or not. And again, that could take up to 60 minutes. And then from there, we will also circle back to the neighborhood. Um, if we have another officer available, sometimes we'll have an officer responding at the bike path and we'll send another officer over into the neighborhood um to to kind of do an observation and see what they're picking up from there. Uh, and again, if the reporting party has supplied us with their contact information, we uh we will generally

follow up with them. if it's submitted via our city's web-based reporting tool or the city app. Uh we'll provide them with a written uh disposition of what our findings were. Um a lot of times we'll also call the reporting parties and speak with them on the phone. Um I have met some of them in person in front of their homes uh when they've seen me out there taking readings. Uh and we'll kind of give them an overview of what we've been finding um how it relates to the noise ordinance and try and take that opportunity to kind of educate them on what uh what the city noise ordinance allows. Okay. Um, this sounds like an awful lot of time over the course of the year. Do you have a feel for hours that are spent? Is that something that's tracked? Um, or do you have a feel for what the manpower costs are associated with it?

Sure. So, it does take a lot of time. Uh, thank you for recognizing that. um not only physically responding and taking the log data but then reconciling it all after the fact which is largely done by myself. Um again we have some some tools that help expedite that but it's still um it it does take a lot of staff time. Um so again the way that our noise ordinance is uh has been adopted is that uh you know we would need to conduct our observation for up to an hour each hour um to to be able to um accurately determine whether or not a violation has existed. And when you have a business that is kind of operating on the margins, sometimes it takes that full hour of log data to to demonstrate that look, they exceeded the plus six limits by two seconds and it took me, you know, 3600 values to to that. Sometimes if they're excessively loud, if they're operating at plus 15 or plus 20, we only need to observe for about five minutes, right? So we just we need to observe long enough to to be able to confidently determine and support the citation that we are issuing if it comes up for appeal. So it I mean we have we have all of our um documented responses logged. Uh we have all of our logged data in there. Um so we can give a rough estimate on what the staff time is. But generally each response as far as um you know again driving out, conducting our observation, doing our followup um takes, you know, roughly an hour to two hours of staff time. And then are the fines that are imposed um related or do they correlate with amount of time that manpower that is required to investigate or is it a fixed flat amount?

Sure. So the um the fine schedule for these are they're considered infraction penalty. So any violation of the noise ordinance is considered an infraction penalty. Um, so that fee schedule is codified uh with a $100 first citation, 250 for a second, 500 for a third and subsequent. Um, there's also some language in there that the city can pursue um civil charges or charges of misdemeanor with a penalty up to $1,000. Um, that has not been something that the city has um has pursued. Um so you know at the point that we're at with the surf club now because we've had um multiple visits where they were found in violation we've assessed administrative penalties um essentially every time they're found in violation the the fine amount starts at 500 and then depending on um kind of what the factors are if there are more than one violation observed that could compound um into an additional fine amount.

Okay, one last question I promise that's it. Um, is there technology available and does the city have technology that would allow uh remote monitoring, you know, stationary monitoring devices and then you can uh do this remotely or digitally or do you physically need to go every time? Yeah, the the technology exists. Um and um our city did explore um we we we beta tested um a device that a fixed device that you place and it continuously logs and it's tied in with a software dashboard that uh reconciles the data and kind of gives you a report. Um so the you know unofficially the city has used that. I think currently our our process and the code is um what we can attest to as far as the officer's observation. Um and so in these instances where we have found them in violation, it has been an officer um positioned with a decel reader and logging that data. Um but I know that uh familiar with the city's um vacation rental uh program, some of our owners will also utilize um you know thirdparty devices and software that continuously tracks uh you can you can install them at fixed locations throughout your property. Um it'll give you alerts if if it hits certain parameters. So that the technology exists. I think um our department has explored um seeing if it's a viable option for us and um and you know again I think that's still something that is being considered.

Thank you. I just have a follow up on that. So there was a photo we saw earlier that you had like a looked like a little speaker on a pole. That's not there permanently. That that was just a temporary

Yeah. So that's a that's a sound level reader. um a fixed to a tripod and then um officer Galva who's sitting in the front row here, he's uh the person that is standing behind that monitoring uh as it's uh as it's logging the data or myself sometimes uh doing that too. And and again, the reason why it's it's also important to have a bit of a human element there is because there's there's environmental factors. There's obviously planes passing by frequently. There's um there's the general public that are coming through on the bike path. And so, um, when we're noticing kind of something that's an anomaly and and what the readings are, we want to be able to attest to what caused that. Um, and so, you know, again, the log data is the log data. Um, but then, you know, the other part of it is the officer's notes um to explain any sort of uh things that are just seem out of the ordinary.

Uh, I have three three quick questions. If this weren't industrial, what would the decibel level be allowed during the daytime? Sure. So, the the the lowest threshold of noise is for our residential low density and that's um during the 7 a.m. to 6 p.m. time frame, it's a 50 decel limit with allowances and then it it's increases from there. So we have residential low density um residential high density commercial industrial and then uh second your equipment doesn't measure measure base at this point nor does our noise ordinance measure base or in or deal with deal with that concern that you've said that the neighbors raise.

Sure. That's a great question. So our equipment does have the capability of measuring in uh C weighted decibb which is generally what um bass measures at. Um however our noise ordinance doesn't have u a threshold or a limit uh like a numbered limit specifically to bass. So uh the way that bass is uh dealt with in our is codified in our noise ordinance is um does it exceed the vibration perception threshold? Um and so essentially is that um are you able to feel it uh like the sensation of the base uh vibration beyond the property line. So uh for those instances where we are receiving a report that um for example like my whole house is shaking um it's like there's an earthquake because of the base. Um and in those specific reports we would go straight to that reporting party's property if we're aware of it. Um we would make our observation and again we would um we would observe the conditions whether or not again we are able to feel that sensation. Does it exceed the vibration detection threshold? We would physically place our hand on the wall to again to see if we can feel that vibration through that. Um so that's how bass is dealt with currently in our noise or so. So our equipment does have the capability of um of logging that information at those lower frequencies. um it doesn't really come into effect unless it exceeds that vibration detection threshold.

And then the last question, and it's a bit rhetorical, does our city have a um have the ability for the applicant to go in and for a special event to exceed the noise ordinance?

So, generally, no. Um almost every single special event permit that I've seen as part of that process. Um the only variation that I've seen is is allowing them to operate maybe beyond that 10pm threshold. Um but generally there's there's never any language in there that provides them with exception to exceeding the city's permitted noise ordinance. It's it's very it's it's actually canned language I think where it says like you know you may not exceed the city's noise level limits for your particular uh zoning. So, while they could technically get and we see it with um some of the splash house after dark events at the air museum where they will operate beyond um what you know generally is that 10 p.m. um kind of most quiet period into the later hours of 2 a.m. Um they they are not permitted um technically to exceed the the noise level limit for that particular zoning in that time.

Thank you. Are there any other questions? Thank you so much for your service. Um, at this point, are there question generally questions for staff? Uh, seeing none, I'm going to open the hearing and the applicant. Oh, Madam Chair, if we could maybe call the uh the owner of the surf club up first as the applicant.

We would generally do that in the public hearing and she has 10 minutes. Hi there. My name is Mara Smith and thank you for letting me come in tonight. I am representing the surf club. Behind me, I also have a ownership. I have um management and our employees here. So, we um collectively want everybody to understand that we absolutely take this serious. We want everyone to also and forgive me I bet of all the folders I brought tonight the one I didn't bring was my speech so if I get jump around a little bit please uh give me some grace. We have been part of the surf club since tw since 2019 I believe and this has been a challenge for sure. This is a startup. This is new technology. We've had our challenges with it obviously breaking down. Um, learning the industry and understanding what it is. This was in 1985. I thought it was 82. Um, there was a water park built and it is sitting in the middle of Palm Springs which I have fallen in love with and I'm so grateful that I get to be and understand um the community here. As a whole, our business is an entertainment facility. We teach people to surf. We also have an amphitheater. We have restaurants. Um we have a water park. We have slides. We have children um there every day. And I have received many complaints from not just the children screaming and the music but also the wave machine. And we want to recognize that we are trying on every on our best uh mitigation efforts that we have put in. We have explored the opportunity of

installing a sound wall which will give us about two decimals of saving not much more than that. We have installed sound blankets in our in our machine room. Our um we have um explored right now and we're hoping to put it put forth to the planning department or who I'm not sure who we do to this with but doing a living wall of foliage to help mitigate the sound. As a business, we work with a community. We host weddings there and we've hosted birthday parties and we've hosted Yes. We've hosted adult swims. We've also um host children every every day. We host high schools, elementary schools and they come in and they celebrate life. This is a fun event space and there will always be noise with it. that is I know that for us I have personally gone to the local community's HOA meetings um answered their questions handed out my personal cell phone trying to relieve code invoicement a little bit so I'd rather have them reach out to me directly to relieve them of having to get 60 calls from them um I had an experience over Easter which I want to hear the neighbors and be a really amazing neighbor and I stand there and I anytime they ask me to hold a meeting there, we I'll allow them. Anytime they ask for a donation, we gift it to them. Um, we have offered many times, please come down, sit down with us, and and I would love to be part of your community meetings. on uh I think it was April 20th, one of the residents of that community came in and actually spit in my face, which to them I want to give give them the the grace that they're frustrated and just as we are frustrated. So forgiving them and there was no

part on my thing that I wanted to retaliate or all I could say was I'm sorry and let's call all speak again another day because this is probably an elevated time and they were emotional and frustrated. So to answer that, we are trying in our very best efforts to do what we can to do it, to do everything right, to be a good neighbor. And I am so grateful to the many residents within that neighborhood or all around Palm Springs that support us. We all we support the local community. We are obviously this the um I'm sorry, the people that come in for the winter. I don't want to say snowbirds. We have different clientele that come out throughout the year. So our noise level changes. We are we have community partners throughout the desert, not just in Palm Springs. Um we spend a lot of time and energy and effort to entrench oursel within the neighborhood and not just the Takawitz but then the seven lakes but all of them. And I really absolutely enjoy and I think every one of my staff members will up there. We welcome everyone to come in and to enjoy it and see it. and it is 22 acres and we have water slides and we have a lazy river and it's a big space. I personally have gone over to some of the neighborhoods um homes where they have I ride my bike in there and I take our sound media um reading recorder. Sorry, Mitch. Um I take it with me. So I want to experience what they're experienced and I do appreciate that there is a noise that there's always going to be noise and I also stood out there today while airplanes were flying over ahead and I had to stop conversations when they were um the flight the I guess the fighter pilots were coming in but I appreciate their concerns but I also am here to say we are a business and we want to be part of this community and we want to be great neighbors. the we have installed a permanent fixture that um

Mitch was speaking about. We have readings from the last year and we I I have readings from I'm sorry, forgive me from 10:24 to with me tonight until yesterday and I we track it. My security rides up on the bike paths one path once an hour. We do our readings. We we log it and we appre we also spend time well I we've spent time with the comm local um police department to work with them on the not just the noise but we've also our security staff comes and helps with the with the homeless population in the wash. So we are there constantly doing that path through with them um trying to trying to answer the questions and to do it right. I am lucky enough that I've had many meetings with many PE officials within the city. I spend time with them to better understand how we can help and how we can do a better job and also how we can all just show up for each other. And I thank the people that came in tonight and there's um people that came in from that neighborhood that are in support of us and some that aren't. And I am I want to hear everyone. We also own a home in that neighborhood or I'm sorry, we rent a home in that neighborhood. We're on Broadmore, so we are that part of that neighbor as well. Um, standing there with them, I understand it that their issues and they're they have a right to be heard and I want to help them, but also please call me and and let me help you instead of taking up the time of code enforcement or anything with that. I don't know if that makes sense to you this, but um I don't want we did have an issue with the chillers in our systems and I think we all have talked about the sound noise from that particular machine. It's loud

and we have done enough mitigation that I don't believe that they've had a complaint on that for months. So, we have been successful in doing some of the sound. the event space. We will continue to have um sound. I I think we failed one Tuesday night on our readings when we had 70 hikers out on the patio having and they had iced tea. It wasn't like they were there that long and we failed. We were at we were above the decimal reading of of 55 when we just had people sitting on our patio. So, it is a challenge for us and I just want to recognize that we we are here to help it. We want to hear you and I want to to in the future keep working together within that community as well as with the whole city of Palm Springs. So, thank you so much for today. Again, sorry I lost I did not bring my one page, but I was trying to get it. And I'm looking forward to answering questions. One question I have, Mitch, how many times have you guys come out and we didn't fail, which would be an interesting time question. How many times can we get that to say that we

I think he he he really can't answer that in this but we can ask that question of him later. Uh if you what I'm going to do is have the public come up open the public hearing and then bring you back up so I appreciate it. [Applause]

Are there members of the public who wish to speak? So, I'm going to call in order of of of who submitted a card to speak. For those that are online, I put this in the note, but if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. And once we do uh inch chamber comments, we'll come to those online. The first speaker that I have is Tom Jennings, followed by Jim Russell. I'm Todd Jennings. I live in the Tacos Creek neighborhood. My primary concern is the wave machine. Um, I'd like to address a couple what feel to be false narratives that are sort of circulating. One, the people in the neighborhood do not want the park to fail. Everyone that I know of is supportive of this park. Two, as suggested by the news program last night, we do not hate children or families. Okay? And third, this is really an issue of corporate responsibility, right? you make the noise, you're responsible to the neighbors. Um, so I'm hoping that the commission will consider this a data-driven decision because it's really the only way that you can be both fair and equitable to all parties involved. With corporate pro profits come corporate responsibilities. And while I appreciate the narrative to try to personalize or humanize a corporation, at the end of the day, they are not right. They are not. It's a corporation. There may be carrying people there, but at the end of the day, it's a corporation that's earning profits off a negative impact to those in the neighborhood. It can be remedied, and that's all we're simply asking. We don't want the park to go away. We don't want those who enjoy the park to not be there. We'd like to enjoy the park, but not at the expense of the quality of life of our neighborhood. So, I'm simply

asking that we've got the data. I'm a social scientist. I love databased decisions. So, I'm hoping that you do as well and that you see it as a way to move forward in an objective and fair way. Thanks, [Applause] Jim Russell. Followed by Tea Fel.

Hi, my name is Jim Russell. I live in the Tuckwitz Creek uh golf course neighborhood. And really, the only reason we're here today is because of noise. If there was no noise being created, I would not be here today. I'd be on my back patio having a beer. There is one problem. When we moved into the house, the the the previous water park was operating and it was great. We heard it, but it wasn't that big of a deal. As soon as the new water park came in and as soon as they started testing their equipment, we found a problem. We could hear it inside the house, outside the house, in the backyard, in the swimming pool, in the garage, anywhere I'm at. I can hear that weight machine when it's working. I also hear the bass from the music. That's the only reason we're here. So, planting a small ficus hedge is not going to stop that noise. Um, building a sound wall might. I don't know. But all we're asking for is for the surf park to take responsibility for for what they're doing. And they are destroying my way of life. I moved to this neighborhood because of the quiet, because of the way it was, and now it's changed. And I can't enjoy my house the way I did before. And I think that most people here are here for the same reason. We don't want to see the park fail. I would love to see it succeed. I would love to see them grow and build their whatever they're building there and make it work, but I don't want it to succeed if it's going to matter that we can't enjoy our lives the way we did before they were there. And that's my main problem. Thank you. [Applause]

Uh the Falco had already spoken, so we will have Dan Lasco followed by Brian Ashby. My name is Dan Lascoz. I live in

Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, for taller people. Guess I thought I was shorter. Dan Lasitz. I live in the Titz Creek area and have for 52 years. We've gone through a number of owners of the water park. Um, this current one is different in they have this machine operating which is really loud at certain times of the day as the engineer reported. How it bothers us is when we would go out in the morning to listen to the birds, look at the trees, it's quiet. Even an occasional plane doesn't bother us. But this thing is a constant draining groaning noise. the previous one of the previous planners wrote us a letter and said, "Yes, we have a problem. We are looking into building walls." We thought, "Oh, great. They'll build a wall. It'll it'll solve the problem." Um, we have never complained about kids enjoying themselves. Our daughter used to go to the original Oasis Water Park. It's never been a problem. We love to hear kids in the neighborhood. If the if a house is rented next door and kids are playing, it's great. We love that sound. So, how do you solve the problem of a business creating a noise that constantly drones? You either have to build a wall or you have to build a better facility to house

the equipment. The other problem we have are the special events. We cannot have amplified music in our backyard. We don't have a rental. We live there full-time, but there are rental properties that are prohibited from having amplified music in their backyard. No music. We can't have it. But the surf park can it's not fair. They're a business. So are rental properties a business. So I think it has to be fair that something has to be done especially with the subwoofers. Uh in one of your um I guess investigations you state you stated they're subwoofers are not allowed yet they use them. The bass is the thing that rattles our windows. So if those two things are taking care of the sound from the wave machine and the [Applause] Brian Ashby Hello, my name is Brian Ashby. I'm a resident of the Tockets Creek Golf neighborhood. And um I also wanted to reiterate the comment that the neighbors, myself and the neighbors that I talked to uh would love to see the water park succeed as a business. We're not at all interested in it sitting there vacant and empty and creating some of the problems that were listed earlier. Um, I am one of the licensed short-term rental property owners in the neighborhood, and I've been really

diligent for the five years that that's been the case to make sure that my renters uh do not play amplified music outside to bother the neighbors or anything. And I kind of re reiterate Dan's comment that uh the city has really clear ordinances about being respectful of neighbors with sound issues. Um, in some ways, exactly as Dan was just stating, uh, it's the wave machine and the subwoofers from the music events that have have my attention. Um, my partner doesn't hear well. He's one of the people in the neighborhood who says, "I don't hear anything. He has hearing aids. He will often take them out so he can't hear anything. But I will be in my house doing normal in-house things uh in the kitchen cleaning, doing laundry. Um I love my solitude. I'm a meditator. I love I cherish my quiet quite frequently. And there are days when the wave machine or the subwoofer equipment at the sound uh at the events at the park is on me. And uh there are days when I turn on my own music inside my house and I just ignore it and don't let it have me or bother me. There are other days where it is on my mind and I'm listening to it frequently throughout the day. So my my request to the city council, the the planning commission is that you just enforce the codes that are in place. and you know hearing that the fines are 250 5 that's just the cost of doing business to somebody that doesn't have any sting to it really. So anything that can be done from the planning commission to enforce codes and make sure that um everybody feels like they're being a good neighbor is is why I'm here. So thank you. We have no additional speakers signed up

to speak. If you wish to speak now, uh this is your opportunity. Uh and and the same goes for those online. I see no one with their hand raised on this item. Yeah.

Thank you again. Thank you to the planning commission for your volunteer time. you have a tough job and um I'm actually a professional land use planner and what I found is that quality of life and land use planning it's a loaded combination as we all know and our decisions are critical to the lives and happiness and peace of mind to thousands sometimes hundreds of thousands of people. I live at Riviera Gardens, which is right next to what used to be Margaritavville, and they had the splash parties and certain events seven or eight times a year. And it was uncontrollable there. I called code enforcement, and I really I um have nothing but compliments for code enforcement. They do their job as well as they can, as well as they're equipped to. And the problem is the city has not equipped them to solve the problem. It's it's insoluble the way it's coming down the pike. For one thing, the decibel ratings, they work with some things and types of noise. They don't work with other types of noise. And I noticed with the um noise that was generated by Margaravville, it wasn't the underlying musical melody. It was the thump thump thump thump going on and it doesn't register appropriately under the decibb and you listen to it sometimes for 12 hours straight and then my house was vibrating all weekend and it would go on for three days straight until I began to find ways to get out of town during that time period. But I was being evicted from my

own home and I had every right to peace and quiet in a residential neighborhood. The original zoning classification started in 1916 for residential was to maintain peace, quiet, and serenity. That is one of the longest legal entitlements that survived in the planning field in this country. I'm a professional planner and I studied that. So I want um I hope that the planning commission can look at a deeper level for some of the solutions to noise. And part of it is that there is just certain types of commercial development that do not belong adjacent to residential peace and quiet and I hope the city over time becomes more sensitive to that. Thank you. We do now have two speakers online.

Oh, I'm sorry. Is there Yes, come up. Yes, please. We'll go to the online speakers in just one second.

Thank you. Uh, thanks for letting me come on last minute. My name is Scott Shatsky. I'm also at Takwatz Creek and have been there since uh 2019. Um there seems to be some real confusion about everything which a lot of the homeowners that I know have also spoken with and spoken to and um there seems to be a lot of hostility from the surf park and false narratives from the surf park. We're just trying to live like we hear that homeowners should know that there's going to be noise. We should know and expect that there's going to be certain things. Sure, but we're also in Palm Springs which is a retirement community. We live on a golf course which is very quiet. we don't have a lot of noise and a lot of background noise. And so when the surf park came in and we actually had one of our annual meetings and there was a representative from the surf park back in 20 I think we asked them what the business plan was. They said we don't we're not going to disclose it and we don't know yet. Okay. Um we didn't know anything about them having special events. We didn't know there would be Golden Voice that was coming in and renting it out. We didn't know that they would have the subwoofers. We didn't know that they would have these microphones and we certainly didn't know that their wave machine would sound like airplanes taking off. And so we contacted the city time and time and time again. Veronica was amazing with corresponding and letting me know and she would even send me screen grabs of all of the different complaints that were coming in to try and say, "We're with you. We're trying." She let me know when they were the surf park was one citation away from a cease and desist. And that same day, she said the Surf Park showed up in the office to actually then start doing something different about the wave machines. So, we're not privy. We don't know what the business model is. We don't know what they have planned. We don't know what the building is that they've been building for the past, I year and a half that isn't complete. That's okay. We don't need to know that. But what we do need to know is that when we do call and I have

called that it is a pleasant conversation and that there is something that's effectively being done. Nothing is effectively being done. Maybe the wave machines of sound blankets are on it. Okay. Bas isn't going to do anything. All we're asking for, as has been said before, is that there is accountability and that we stop having these special events until there's a solution in place so that ultimately everybody wins. We don't care about children. We want them to succeed, but not at the cost of what it is to live there. You guys want to buy us all out of our homes? Great. Do that if that's what the case is. I don't think that is viable for them. But why after $80 million has been spent on a surf park should we suffer for that day in and day out? Thanks very much. [Applause]

We'll go online to someone named Ally. I have allowed you to speak. You have three minutes.

Thank you. Hi, Alicia Allen. Also a resident of Talkitz Creek. Uh we were super excited, stoked about the surf club opening until it opened. Unfortunately, uh most days that they are open, unfortunately, it has proven to be a nuisance. It's really driven by a combination of music, bass, um people yelling. We can hear employees on the microphones and of course the wave machine. Um since opening day on New Year's Eve of 2023, I have called the non-emergency line requesting dispatch and honestly just advice on how to handle this over 10 times. It's terribly unfortunate that we have come to literally dread the event days and the adult swim nights which just seem to be a nightclub on water. Um, for context, the wave machine is so loud that it drowns out the sound of our air conditioning unit and pool filter and traffic on Gene Audrey and we are only two lots away from Gene Audrey. So, this is not just white noise or slightly above ordinance. It is wildly disruptive to our piece and during events I can hear the music so clearly inside our house with the doors closed that it is like a karaoke bar. The bass is created it the bass vibrates on our sliding glass doors. That's how bad it is to the point that it actually scares my dog. There have been occasions when we've literally left our house for respit from the noise. And while the closest house might be 915 ft away, the geography between their space and the homes of the flat open terrain carries the noise directly into the backyards. So I hear and I understand that they wish to be good neighbors, but I am sincerely questioning the authenticity of the statement after 60 complaints and multiple citations. The wave machine is one part, but the other part just seems simple to me. Just turn the music down. And aside from that, what has been done to date, I hear that there are a lot of things that been have been put into practice, but I will tell you as a homeowner in this neighborhood, what has

been done to date is not enough. People choose to live in and visit our beautiful city for tranquility and peace and relaxation. And ultimately, the CIR Club operating the way that it does today is standing in direct opposition of Palm Springs self-imposed ordinances and is creating a completely different environment than what is set out to be the entire purpose of the city. And as a footnote, I am just really concerned that there are conditions that we're asking the surf club to meet on paper. And it's possible that they will meet these conditions, but it will continue to be a quality of life hindrance for our neighborhood, which perhaps poses the question of are these the appropriate conditions for a business operating that is bleeding into a residential neighborhood. I understand that they are zoned industrial, but this is a very, very gray area considering that we are only 900 feet away and can hear everything as if they are in our own neighborhood. So, I would just ask you to take their their zoning as an industrial neighborhood into consideration. Thank you. I appreciate it.

The next speaker is online as Surf Turk. You have three minutes and you first need to unmute yourself. uh surf turk if you wish to speak this is your opportunity they are able to speak but not unmuting perhaps we can go to questions and if if we sort this out we can come back to them if you want to do that madam chair we have no other I think I'd like to call the owner back up and see if people here have questions of the owner.

And do you go ahead? Hi. U so listening to the community it's very clear that there needs to be some type of mitigation apart from fus trees uh have you considered building a new building or other reinforcements that are structurally appropriate?

Absolutely. Um, we have I have all the data here that I've shared with the city about building a wall and we've met with several different companies to that would share with us the right correct data to meet the city's requirement. We have explored that and we what they have told us and what we met with the airport and we've met with the air museum and the convention center everyone that also has this problem within Palm Springs and we have taken upon ourselves to hopefully be able to plant that and it is not planting just ficus it is a it is a living wall which is quite ex um high it's 22 feet at the at the minimum to build into that which has been the most success which I've heard understand from the other uh companies that have had this issue.

So with that wall though only encompass the wave machine or will it also go east? Yeah, east towards the ampathe. Yes, it'll go down straight down that entire and uh let's see. Next question was noise mitigation. Um, have you considered changing the hours of the surf machine just to accommodate the neighbors?

Thank you for that question. We um we do we and and especially during the months where people have their w their windows open, we have we have shortened our hours. We we are able to operate at 6:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. And we don't we don't do that. We um sorry we um we don't we do it during the hours up till about six o'clock at night and we don't start till 8. Sorry. I'm sorry. Okay. Thank you.

Sorry about that. Um also and and and forgive me I'm I was quite surprised to hear about the hostility because I I have never experienced that myself or hearing it. I don't um with with some of the comments from saying the fines we do take serious and we we do have we have 411 employees that are there every day and I hate that I'm walking around going don't don't talk too loud. Um but we do take it all serious. So I'm I was quite surprised when I heard the hostility and I'm happy to answer to that and I again they all have my cell phone number and I I welcome when they call me. Thank you. Other questions? Vice Chair Lion,

I I'm not quite understanding your living wall 22 ft high. Is this something that you have had modeled and determined that you also said earlier something about a wall that would only lower by two dipos? So, yes, thank you. Sorry. the difference of the walls that we've explored. Um, and forgive me, I don't know the exact terms on what it would the the entire system said it was about a two to three decimal lowering for it. It would only absorbed enough. The the living wall was the one that said because of you're staggering the trees and how you plant them that it would bounce the wall. It would bounce the sound back and it would filter it. So, okay.

Does that help? If if I might just uh just based on some conversations we've had, there are limitations on the height of the wall that can be achieved through the zoning code etc. Whereas the living wall, you know, there there is an ability to go up with some additional height. So, as I understand it, and I I've not seen the acoustic work that's been done, but that the combination of the type of landscaping and the additional height that you can achieve buy you more of a reduction in the decibel level than the wall might. Why do we call it a living wall? I that's what was on my report. I I think it's because it's all planted.

Okay. Um also then have you I've uh seen problems in the past where there was friction where uh residential neighborhoods bump up against commercial districts amplified music outdoors caused problems. and uh some of which were solved by going into the residents and actually changing out replacing their windows with double pane or triple pane for especially in older homes where that seemed to take it. Have you looked at that at all?

I have you know someone suggested that to me for the first time yesterday. It was in a conversation to be quite honest uh with you. We do submit letters. We are partnered with uh Golden Voice. We do submit letters ahead of time with Jasmine and and within the community we do send out. Um but yes, someone suggested that just the other day. We have had people approach us to buy their home. We have had people um off give us other solutions for that. But buying or renting the houses around them, but I mean yeah. Okay.

So yes, I that was only suggested yesterday, the windows to be honest with you. And uh also how about um isolation or vibration pads for the equipment? Um I know you've changed out the equipment or changed it significantly once. Was there anything that was done to isolate it from any structural born

structural? Absolutely structural. We've vented the ceiling and put it and the noise actually gets redirected. Um and forgive me I should know north south but it is redirected away from there towards where it's um a storage facility. So that has been successful um the blankets within the bu building there's a tremendous amount of pressure in that room. So I understand building another whole building might sound like you could do it but the pressure that that comes in you actually see that that we room expand and it's it's center block and rebar but um but yes what we've had success and I from what I understand from code enforcement and some of the city officials is that we have not had a call about the machines in months and since we did the last sorry reinventing the the sound directing redirecting the sound. So, I'm not saying it's successful. I'm saying we've had a a little step in the right direction, but it's not become up as much to us since we did that.

Okay. And then one final question. Uh it sounds as though you have taken a number of steps to address the problem in the past. It also sounds like it hasn't been solved. I'm assuming that you would be continuing if we identify other uh measures that we believe should be tested or tried out or uh things that you have not opportunities you might not have exhausted. Are you open to absolutely making more changes? We look forward to it. Okay. Quite frankly, um Oh, sorry. Yes.

Uh I had a question regarding um you used to have to keep the uh garage bay doors open in the equipment rooms, but has that that was a cooling issue that required those to be open? Yes, it was. Has that been resolved as far as the cooling part of it?

The cooling part of it is I would has been resolved not completely, but we do leave the doors shut. We had um three days this year where the cooler was down and then that's when I got a phone call and and we the doors were up. And if they're up or if they someone leaves the door a jar, it does affect the neighborhood. So as soon as I get the phone call, I call my my staff and we get it shut. And it's as simple as somebody left the door not fully closed, but yes. When did the cooler go in or the coolers go in? Um, December of last year. Okay. So, it's been six months. Yes. And you're you're saying the doors have only had to be open a couple times since that time, which

I know that of the three days for sure. And I know um the one other time when somebody left the door a jar cuz you what happens when the wave runs if they don't shut the door all the way it literally pulls and pushes and it goes opens and closes. So and we just that that's all I know of that it's been open. Have you been working with a a professional noise expert? Three different companies. Yes. That was suggested to us by the city of Palm Springs. Okay. Thank you. Commissioner Robin, is that any questions?

Yeah. With the um um acoustic engineers you've been working with, um have they given you sort of a tiered approach how to um mitigate this like maximum, you know, you're you're the graphs that we saw, you know, you're exceeding your uh decibel levels quite significantly. And so I'm just wondering whether they gave you a tiered approach and if you're approaching it that way. You're doing baby steps to sort of mitigate it.

Yes, they gave us tiered and quite frankly if we find a solution that they say will absolutely work and the city of Palm Springs approves it. We will 100% do it. But yes, they have we have all the data. We've shared the data and we will we will submit the data again. The most recent one. Um there is the every one of them has said to us the biggest promise that you have is the is the growth the growing the trees versus the wall. But I'm happy to share that with you guys and understand it because I've learned a lot about this and and this is a corporation. Yes, it's a corporation, but it's a genuine business and I genuinely have connected with so many people within this neighborhood and this in this community that it's it's it's a lose. It's a it's a corporation right now that is at risk be for our own selves because we've put a tremendous amount of money into it and we're willing to invest in additional sound um mitigation for for everyone and that we're not opposed to it. We have to make sure it's the right one and that it's going to work and we aren't trying to delay it. We aren't uh we are 100% moving forward if we if someone tells us this is the way to go. The problem is getting people to tell us and we've done a lot of the data. We've done the research. They've sat out there for a month. They've they've stood with us and we've met with different companies from around the country that have similar issues. We're all in a in a um collective unit trying to solve this as well.

Um and so uh maybe I missed it, but the um living wall uh you you said just building a wall just will reduce it maybe to a decibel. What what are they projecting? The living wall will reduce it. 7 to 11 is what they said. 7 to 11. Okay. And then uh from personal experience um uh I we dealt with CALR at one point doing construction um on a road near us and if I remember they came and provided some sort of acoustic film that was applied to all the windows to help mitigate some of that sound. Has that been prop to you?

We yes and we have done it. We also have um well in within our own system we're doing we utilize acoustical plaster. We use um we have acoustical uh board that's going into our cabanas. Any flat surface within the park we have addressed and we will continue. That may be something you want to apply to your the the res. Yes. See I mean I there's been advances in the materials and uh it you you just have talk to them about how effective that could be. Absolutely. Thank you for that. Sure. there's a there's a membrane that they introduced to them, but it does create a fog, but we'll absolutely look into that for them. Absolutely. Thank you for that.

Um, a couple of questions. Uh, and to me it looks like you've got two separate problems. One is the events and the other is the machinery. And they both they both need solution. Um, I live in Aena and my neighbors could have been your neighbors uh a couple of years ago uh before they brought outside engineers in with um Splash House. The Splash House did and it was very limited. It was three weekends maybe to four weekends a year, but people who were close by almost had to move out and leave on the weekends when the music occurred. Um, and part of that is because the city doesn't have bass requirements and the other part is that the way the sound travels travels slightly different every time it travel at least for us. But Tyler really worked with outside people and uh he brought outside engineers in for their events and the levels of complaints have gone way down

and I think that's something you need to work with uh in terms of your events and the events are more when I was on this commission when you came to us um and at that point in time there wasn't an arena. There was just some quiet restaurants that might have very light music with dinner. Uh, and nothing was ever mentioned to the city in the first approvals about special events uh or evening pool parties. How many evening pool parties do you have? Um, Saturday nights in the summer. Um, Saturday nights

and we are partners with Tyler and he does assist us with all of our events. uh that I'm sorry the first part of it she was talking about how uh Tyler has done an amazing job with Splash House and what he's done to mitigate the noise and he he is our partner at the surf for for events. The difficulty you have is you're closer than we were. You're much closer. We were I mean my house would rattle uh occasionally uh maybe three of the nine ten times I paid attention to it but I was a mile and a half away.

Right. And so you're closer and you've got a harder problem in terms of the neighbors and you have an industrial noise level that where you hear it in the neighborhood might not exceed the the decibb, but it exceeds people's comfort level. And so I think you've got to figure out how you solve that problem. um because you're going you're going to continue to have it for your events unless you work harder on it. And the machinery problem you just have to solve. You can't you can't leave those machines violating the noise ordinance consistently.

I agree. Uh and I you know and anything that you can do, anyone that you can work with to solve it, I think is something you have to do. Thank you. And I know that's not asking you questions, but it's interesting to know that you are working with him and that's at least encouraging. Chair, can we bring I have a question for code enforcement. Can I bring them back? If the code if if you could come back.

Thanks for coming back up. Um have you noticed a reduction in the number of complaints um over the last April was the special events say the last couple months?

Yeah. Overall, yes. Um so I think Mara mentioned it back in the fall of last year. Uh we were running into some issues uh with the with the wave making system specifically operating um and they were having these challenges relating to keeping their machinery cooled down which resulted in them having to um have the rollup doors open in order for them to operate their wave system. Um essentially when they do that when those when those rollup doors are open that's just unmitigated noise just coming straight out. Um and that's where you see a spike of I mean it's really um between 12 and 15 dB. So it's significant. Um since then most of the reported concerns that we've received uh have largely been related to like the the live entertainment. So there was the um there was reported concerns during the Golden Voice events in April. And then more recently, just over the last few weeks, uh there's been some reported concerns specifically related to the um to the the adult swim nighttime

Saturday nights. Yeah. But I mean, largely um the the wave making system, we as it's currently operating, they have found a way for it um to operate consistently in compliance with the with their permitted noise level limits when it's operating from 7 a.m. to 6 pm. Um, you know, again, when we're getting those concerns and it's, you know, we're we're noticing that the uh the noise levels are spiking, it's because there's um, you know, if there's a door that's left unsecured and that noise is kind of coming out unfiltered from those from those pump houses, uh, both on the south and the and the west, which is, you know, effectively directed um, straight at that neighborhood across the wash.

Okay. Thank you. And then uh the applicant the door that's under question is does it have a is it a rollup? Is it a a hinge door? It's a regular door and it's on a closer I hope. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes. So maybe that needs to be tightened to make sure it closes. Oh, trust me when I saw that. Yes, I agree. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Um, I think at this point if there are more questions of the applicant, otherwise the matter is before the commission.

I have one more question for staff. If we could get Mitch to come back up for a minute. You've been around uh dealing with issue like issues like this across the city for a long time. Can you help put it in context for me? This business and its operations and the complaints with what goes on for Splash House around the Sorro, what goes on for other um during, you know, White Party, the events that go on. Does this generate the same nature and number of complaints or is this an extraordinary problem on a scale of 1 to 10? Where are you going to put it compared with other um I guess my point is that Palm Springs is a very uh visitor friendly and businessfriendly city and we want people to come here and have a good time but we don't want them to be too annoying to the neighborhood. How would you scale this relative to other events we have here?

Sure. So I mean similar impacts. Um, I think overall there's there's probably fewer reported concerns than when we have uh those very event specific weekends. Um, whether it's um the the Pride events, whether it's um the Splash House events in the summer at some of the hotels. Um I think the difference is is that with Splash House, you know, essentially after the event weekends, um the special events team, um code compliance, uh along with the event promoters, um kind of do a debrief and kind of learn from our mistakes. We try to evolve. So those events have evolved greatly, um in the time that I've been here since 2019 to where we are now. Um there's also a level of of professional management. Um there's there's direct uh engagement with the folks who are in charge of the the sound engineering or the consoles for some of those uh for the specifically for the flash house related events. Um and and through that special events process, uh we've kind of evolved the application process to include um language in those where it's um encourages um more collaboration with with the with code enforcement, with the police department, uh when it comes to some of the the noise attenuation. Um and you know again if if we are making requests to you know make those adjustments whether it's lowering the overall volume or adjusting the equalizer the sound balancing to reduce those bass level limits um we generally are we are at a point with most of these um uh event promoters who spent a good amount of time in our city where they are responsive and they're cooperative with that process. Um so it is a bit of a balance um when we are coming out there to to again facilitate um these these uh events um while balancing the the restrictions of the of the uh noise

ordinance. So um so it's it's it's very similar um especially when when it comes to what the specific you know reported concern of the noise related impact uh when it comes to the um whether it's the overall volume or the the level of bass. Um, I think when you know it's just we're we're still kind of figuring out best practices uh with the surf club as far as what those um what the best way to kind of communicate and to make those adjustments in real time um so that you know if it does create these noise related impacts we can kind of get them under control and get them under control quicker.

One more question for you. uh those events have special event permits which allow the debrief. Do you have anything like that here? Because the events are allowed. So there's no is there debrief?

Uh so I've had a lot of engagement with Mara and and representatives from uh the surf club's management team. So, while they don't necessarily have to go through the special events process, um especially for this uh for the events early in April, we still kind of had a similar approach um as far as how we were setting those up and and what the city's response was going to be. Um so, you know, again, I think they have uh they've engaged with us well. They've been responsive. They have taken attenuation measures um based off of our direction to correct in those instances. Uh so so again while we don't necessarily go through that formal process a lot of the same players um I know Mara mentioned that um Tyler has been was involved with helping them promote some of these events. Um so again I think he brings his experience he brings his knowledge of what those best practices are that can reduce those impacts uh to them and and again I think they've uh they have worked well with us and have been responsive uh when we've um kind of identified some shortfalls.

Thank you. Um, sorry chair. One more question. Sorry, this is the end for Mara. Yeah. Um, where are you in the process of designing and constructing this living wall? Um, we are ready to go. Like we could have it b uh planted it as long as it's approved by August 1st. Okay. So, it'll be done by August 1st. Not done by. We can begin it. Begin. And what's what what are you projecting in terms of construction time? Um, probably two I would say two to three weeks is Oh, so by Yeah, it's not it's not as extensive of of it's definitely not going to take as long as our building has taken for sure. Okay.

I would say weeks. So by the 1 of October, you think you'll be up and running? Okay. Thank you. For sure. Anyone else? Uh, thank you. The public hearing is closed. Thank you. And it's before the commission. Uh before we start discussing I believe our purview is to give staff direction. We don't have any at this point decision making or actions that we can take. Am I correct in that?

That's right. As a 12-month review uh you know this is really anformational and discussion item. So were the commission to consider additional imposing additional conditions of approval to the original conditional use permit that was granted or modifying those conditions of approval, uh we would need to return at a at a noticed public hearing. Uh so really tonight I think we would take direction from you, then continue to work with the applicant on what is feasible or realistic to address the concerns raised tonight and the direction raised and then return, you know, as soon as possible uh with those changes. Um that doesn't mean that in the interimm we aren't working on some of the solutions that have been raised tonight. I certainly think we can do those in parallel hearing that they're ready to go on some of those items. We're happy to work with them.

Uh so one question and I should have asked it for Mara. It would be helpful to our code compliance if you were hooked into their system and they could mon they could pick up your monitoring. Are you willing to do that? Yes. Thank you. There may be other questions like that so stick around. Thank you for your time.

Okay, this is in front of us. Um I can start. I think it's a serious situation that needs attention and at the same time a business that if we can we'd like to see continue. But we've got we've got a we've got two problems. One is the machinery and the second are the events. And I think our suggestions, as people make suggestions, they should say which one they're going towards. Okay, Commissioner Miller, I see your lights on, so you're going to start.

Well, I appreciate uh Christopher, you um providing clarity on our authority tonight. I um was reading the original condition that planning placed in uh 2019 and it was quite simple I will say um didn't provide a lot of direction on what our authority would be. So I appreciate you're clarifying that. Um on item number two of your recommendations as far as our authority though you say we could provide additional noise limiting measures to be reviewed by planning staff. Um so you're going to hear I think those things. Is it your intent that this would automatically come back to the commission for another re-evaluation or do we have to specify that or do we need to continue this item as a commission so that it does get back to us in three months or six months or whatever the number is.

There's probably a few different ways to to structure that. So I I think there's a few different answers in there. I think to the extent that there are actions that you want us to take at the staff level in working with the applicant, you can provide that direction tonight. To the extent that implementing the discussion that happens tonight um requires changes or additional conditions of approval associated with the conditional use permit that was granted in 2019. That requires us to come back at a noticed hearing before the planning commission, which we obviously cannot do until September, at least at this point. uh given that we're this is our last meeting before the summer break for those listening uh we go dark in August uh and then uh to the point of returning you know so so I think if we were to return with a noticed hearing for the cup to amend the conditions obviously that's going to come back before you um and if the direction or will of the planning commission is to have another check-in I think that that would be a revised condition of approval that we would add at that point in time um if we aren't going down the path of requiring that notice to CUP hearing and amending the conditions then I uh I certainly think you could direct staff to provide an update to the planning commission at some point in the future. I think we have different ways of addressing it. So very clear answer.

Can I piggyback on that? I think the the time is of the essence. We have neighbors here who are not being able to enjoy their their homes and I would rather see something done sooner rather than later. And by sooner I mean Octoberish because these poor people have been putting up with this noise and I I golf on that golf course and I hear it while I'm golfing and it really we're like what the heck is that? I can imagine that being in my house. I I would certainly not want whichever path we go down in terms of addressing this to delay us in implementing, you know, some of the measures that they're ready to move on. And I think planning commission can certainly give us direction or support for that. I I think that implementing the the landscape wall is something that we could that would in normal process be uh implemented administratively through a decision at the staff level. So I'm not concerned with that. If the planning commission wants to direct that we do that. We I think can move on that quickly while we sort the balance out if it does require coming back in the fall. I I can unless people want to I have some suggestions on the noise which is one direct staff to implement the living wall as quickly as possible. Um if you can direct the applicant to work with sound engineers to find additional noise attenuating measures there need those measures need to be found and they should be report back on what they're doing. I think there needs to be a rule that if the doors are open, the machines are off. I don't think you can leave the machines running even if you have clients if the doors are open. Um the um I I think the the other and

I think the machinery is probably the most serious of the issues and it needs to be dealt with but I don't have other brilliant suggestions in addition to those. Does anybody else have things that they would suggest on the machinery?

Well, it's a question. And I'm not a noise expert by any means, but I'm just wondering if this has been considered. And if not, if Mara could um could ask their noise consultant if this has been considered. It sounds a little foolish, but it might work. Have you considered like a hay bale wall, put close proximity to the equipment rooms and perhaps close proximity to the amphitheater. I don't know if it's going to be effective, but that's two or three feet wide of of solid hay stacked up as high as the city would allow it. I don't know if you would consider that a structure or plant material or um I don't know if it would work, but I think it should at least be considered because I got to think if that is 15 or whatever feet high, it's got to be absorbing some of that sound. Um, again, I'm not a noise expert, but please consider it.

And I'll I'll actually inquire if that would work. That's interesting. But the second prong of that is we still haven't addressed the amphitheater and the frequency, the hours.

Let's let's go to that next. The next thing I think is she said she would hook her equipment up to um to the city. so that they can do the monitoring remotely and don't have to be on the property all the time. Uh, and I think that as quickly as that could be implemented, I think that's helpful. Now, we can go to the amp amphitheater and the event noise and those those are I think those are different things. Um, but are there more? And the hay bale is a wonderful suggestion. I I don't know if it'll work, but I've you know I know those pl Hey hay bale houses are incredibly quiet. So

I want to go back uh to something you said chair um which was that they needed to consult with acoustic engineers or sound engineers. I understand that you have a couple times already. Frankly, that's not us. And I'm at a loss when you look at us and say you need somebody to tell you what to do. you're willing to do it. We're not the folks who are technically going to well other than Commissioner Miller, we're not the folks who are going to be able to uh come up with that. So, I would in I guess my suggestion would be to explore additional creative more creative uh acoustic engineers or something because I don't think that we're we're your solution there. No, and forgive me. I didn't mean to to act as if you did. I do take the recommendation of the sound experts that we do have and I will certainly continue and perhaps I can submit them and and and let them let the planning department tell me

and vice chair if I might just clarify because I think we're talking about two different experts and two different solutions in here uh that the chair was was referring to. So one are the acoustic experts who uh Mora and her team have been working with to address what is the wall attain obtain attaining in terms of reduction in decibel levels what is this living wall going to attain the sound blankets the uh there's vent hoods are something that you've you've talked about implementing to redirect the noise that I think have been successful so that's something that noise experts are studying and determining you know based on their expertise is having some impact on the level of noise that's being generated I believe there's also a conversation in This is something that I believe uh both code uh and I I believe the chair has had experience with in in working with splash house and others are during the splash house events as I understand it and I'm going to look to people to shake their head if I misspeak. Uh there are on-site sound engineers that are part of the event promoters or event teams that are throwing these golden voice or splash house events who are continuously monitoring and making adjustments to the noise. Okay. So, I just wanted to clarify there's sort of two different experts in the mix there.

The the the other thing going into the arena and the event noise, the the first thing that um Splash House did was notify people. So there were there was always notification of people uh including the police and the city's numbers to call if people needed to call and your own person depending on who people wanted to call to report issues. But that notification was easy in our neighborhood because we had one neighborhood, one HOA. We could send out one email and it hit 450 homes. I think you have to figure out a system of notifying the people that are going to be impacted, which may mean door hangers. It may mean something electronic. But if you're going to be doing something and there's going to be a special event, I think at a bare minimum, people need significant advanced notice uh of that of that event.

We we follow the same guidelines that Splash House does. Actually, Tyler has taught us that. Um, we absolutely do that. I also have requested in the there's gosh, and forgive me, it was like 162 neighborhood neighbors, HOAs that we reached out to to become Facebook friends so we could submit it to um the main people, then they could distribute it within their neighborhoods. So, we've done

I think doing both because uh your HOAs those or or the neighborhood organizations are the HOAs probably are more formal. The neighborhood organizations are a little more informal. But notification, you know, a consistent policy of notification. But let's talk a little the the difficulty you have is how close people are and the differences in perception um between an industrial noise level and what's comfortable. And you you may meet the city's limits and people still object because it's not comfortable in their homes. Uh, and that's a conundrum.

And one of the things that I would suggest or I certainly encourage you to do is uh take your acoustic engineers, not the on-site events engineers, um, and actually go to people's homes. It sounds like you've got a finite number of homes, the the people really who um are impacted and can hear that they're being impacted because you can impact my house. You're good. I can't hear. Uh but there's a finite number of homes and taking the engineers and looking in to see if there's anything specific that can be done. Not necessarily on the uh surf park side, but in their yards around their homes for those particular instances would be advantageous.

Perfect. And we do travel. Anyone that calls me and gives us their address, we do automatically put it on our list of when when on the hourly and I wouldn't say they do it hourly, but I know that they rolled through the neighborhood and identify certain streets that have had additional calls and Mitch is uh given us just streets, not necessarily house numbers for that. But yeah, I'm not suggesting that uh during the event they go and they monitor the noise level from there, but they take a look at it with an eye towards. Is there something physical um some sort of barrier or barricade or something that can be done on site so that they don't have to go back and monitor every event? Exactly. Yeah. No, we will provide that.

Yes. I mean, my last thing on the uh amphitheater, I would say at a minimum, I think the uh bass or the subwoofer, whatever it is, has to be turned down. It has, and that's something simple. Not turned down so that the people aren't having fun and you can't hear it from the event space, but there I've been to events like this, not for the last 10 years, but when I was younger. Um, and they can turn down the base and it'll still be fine and it'll make less vibration 1,000 ft away. It will. And I think that's an easy fix if that can be somehow articulated in a agreement with the planning staff. And I think that gets back to the other expert that I was referring to, uh, the on-site engineers that I believe are working with Mora and her event teams and having them just more closely monitor that situation and and perhaps coordinating with Mitch and his team on again the lessons that we've learned through Tyler and and folks with Splash House. Absolutely.

Is there more? I mean, it's when do people want this to come back to us? Well, it's kind of doesn't help us to come back before there's been you've made some changes and there's been another special event because we wouldn't have people to have uh feedback from the public as to how successful it's been without six months.

Yeah, I think it has to it has to give them time to, you know, do some improvements. uh or attempt to make improvements, but I think it's got to be within six months. Certainly, I would think like closer to three months. Uh for staff, three months passes as you blink your eyes. How much time do you need?

Can we maybe perhaps make it a range of 3 to six months? I I I just I do worry to the point that Commissioner Miller and Vice Chair Lanner raising. You know, despite the applicant's best intentions, sometimes the wheels of city government turn a little bit slowly and we will certainly endeavor and commit to working as quickly as possible in terms of getting them in the ground with these attenuation me uh me measures that we're discussing. I worry three months may be a little soon, but a range of three to six and then returning as soon as it's implemented and we have the data to inform you all in terms of what those next steps might look like. Uh probably and maybe this is a question of what you have planned over the fall.

Is there going to be an event that you're thinking about over the fall that might give us that data to see how these measures work? Um, I would hope I do believe there will be and I absolutely I will commit to submitting everything that we're doing along the way if you can just update them prior to that. And yes, maybe we'll say October if we could do I don't know what your schedule is, but October to January is kind of that 3 to six month range and that feels good. Um, but but I'm still concerned about the community having to deal with that for another six months after they've had 60 violations. I mean, time is of the essence.

Absolutely agree. Again, we can certainly work to get them approved and in the ground as quickly as possible, but I think the combination of of getting that that wall constructed and then having another event to see how it's worked is is critical to informing you all uh on how things have worked. And I think it's six violations and 60 calls. I'm sorry. Well, the wall, Isn't the wall primarily for the machinery? I think it's intended to address both. Yeah. So, it would be, as I understand it, along almost that entire southern perimeter. Are there other mechanical things that you've been looking at to address the machinery issue? Um mechanical mean or anything

to to address the noise? No. Um the really we have done everything that we've executed everything within those walls that that we that has been brought to us by all the mechanical engineers 100%. But again we I think our next step is outside out you know 10 feet off of that wall and help bounce the the noise. And as part of those discussions about the the living wall, we can certainly explore, you know, the hay bales suggested by Commissioner Miller and potentially some of the other measures uh that Mora and team are looking at uh surrounding the mechanical room uh as well as ensuring that it remains closed, which I know

I think I mean not just hay bales, there must be materials that people are using that dull noise. I know we had Yeah. people telling us that with um the pick the proposed pickle ball court that came in. I think they're materials that people are beginning to use to dull noise. Well, and you did install some sound fabric within the the room itself, the mechanical room. Yes. And when did you install that? Uh about eight or nine months ago.

Okay. So, that's that's been in place for a while now. So, but and then yes, there is additional material and we've explored a lot of it and we're happy to continue. It's a thermal uh thick wall that that that will we can actually put that along with the living wall and not and it's not imposing on. So, I think exploring that as well. Um and with that are there any other comments? I think the matter's closed. Coming back to us in three to six months, understanding there's urgency.

Yes. And I I do want to reiterate to commit to Commissioner Baker's concerns. We will bring that back as soon as we can. Ideally, three months, but just a little flexibility to make sure that we have the data to support your discussion. Thank you. Do we need a we need a break, don't do we need a break? Uh we are taking a Thank you for your time. Thank you. Uh we're taking a bio break till 8:10.

Okay, I'm calling this meeting back to order. We're missing one commissioner, but we are going to start without her unless she gets back to the dis. So, hustle.

Okay, moving at lightning speed. We are back to item A. A request by 1784 Holdings LLC applicant Palm Springs Mini Storage uh on behalf of Grit Development, the property owner for a tenative parcel map 39222 for a two commercial condominium lot subdivision, a major development permit application to construct a 90,468 square foot mini uh warehouse building and adjacent RV parking lot located at the southeast corner of North Gene Autry Trail and District Center Drive. Staff report, please.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Let me uh get to the slides here. So the scope of the review of the planning commission is that uh there is a tenative parcel map for a two commercial condominium lot subdivision uh and to conduct a public hearing on that um that application. There's also a major development permit for the construction of a 90,468T mini warehouse which is two stories and a 41 RV parking spaces adjacent to the building. And looking at the zoning of the of the site, this is the zoning map. The the red box shows the three parcels. So the tenative parcel map will combine these three lots into two. And this is the aerial photograph showing the context that is it is adjacent to Gatu Trail, which is State Highway 111. I'm sorry. Yes, 111. The airport is to the left. uh District Center Drive and the Palm Springs School District buildings are the larger buildings on the right and then the vacant lot is in the uh center. The tenant parcel map 39222 shows the parcel one second as a 3.18 acre parcel and then parcel the north parcel is for future development and that's 1.28 28 acres. That parcel could be developed um in the future for any uses that are consistent with the M1P zoning. Uh the applicant will be able to answer any questions. I know there was some um questions about what could possibly be there in the in future development. The proposal for the mini warehouse and storage is a 4.466 overall parcel. The building as I mentioned is 90,000 square or yes 90,000

square feet. It meets the standards of the M1P zone. The building height is three 30 stories at uh 30 ft at two stories. The density is 46 F which is less than what the uh zoning uh code would allow for the M1P zone. Parking for the RV storage is very small. It's eight spaces provided and there are 41 RV parking spaces. Looking at the overall site plan, the entrance to the RV uh RV storage and the building is off of District Center Drive. There's one main entrance right here. There's a secondary emergency exit to the south. Uh, and once you enter the site, inside the building itself, there are rollup doors, and if you're moving things in and out, you pull it inside the building, uh, which is climate controlled. And the eight parking spaces are located to the top of the slide here, and there's a drive out that goes down to the RV parking here to the south. Uh, the applicant has provided u building renderings of what it would could look like. The architectural review committee will be reviewing the overall design of the building, but there are some points I'd like to um to mention. Uh staff had worked with them. This building looked different than when it first they first submitted it. They've added other elements to it. Uh this corner element is more embellished. They've added other elements here with um eyebrows. uh some middle architectural details uh to the building itself. Uh looking at the RV parking to the south, this wall here is 8 ft tall. It's masonry and they've added, if you

can see here, decorative features within the wall itself uh to break up the uh consistent plane of the wall. This is another ending from rendering from the district center drive. And this is the office and the rollup doors that you go into um to unload to put into storage. The landscaping that's proposed really isn't reflected in these renderings. And I want to mention that, you know, this palm tree is not a palm tree that you would see here in the desert. An exhibit shows the building materials, the type of colors that are proposed to use, uh, which are desert neutral, browns, beiges, and darker accents. The building height is 30 ft to the top of the architectural elements. Uh, and it is two stories. So, the first story does not have many windows. There's some windows along the bottom here. Uh, and the second story is where these are actually not really windows. They're um they don't go into the building itself. They're just decorative. The landscape plan is provided showing the type of desert trees. Uh we did work with them to get more landscaping along Ginatru Trails. That's an important element. and also additional trees along the south property line as this is a vacant lot and um we're not sure when that would develop at some point in the future but it is a visible wall as you drive up Gatri you'll be able to see uh this south wall quite prominently this is a detail of what the walls would be it's staggered and there is this decorative metal element that is up here in this corner

and the types of CMU block, masonry block that will be used. I've included some floor plans. This shows the interior of the building. There is uh the loading docks are here, an office, uh and then there is a caretaker's apartment which is here in this corner. You'll see it's a two-bedroom with a kitchen and restroom and laundry. The second floor shows the types of units and the applicant can talk about the sizes if that's important to the planning commission. So, our recommendation is that you approve the tenative parcel map, the development permit. It meets um all the findings that uh the are within the zoning code and they are consistent with your findings that are in the resolution. um the landscaping and open space conforms. However, some work may be needed to be done and any uh recommendations that you would have to forward to the architecture review committee, we would do that. So, that completes my report. As I mentioned, the applicant is here.

Um any questions of staff? Seeing none. Oh, I have just one. Uh, Commissioner Rottman was first and you will be second. That's all right. Lori can go. I was just going to say you've got a couple pages of photos in the um that were included with the staff report that are titled 1784 holdings example developments. Those aren't related to anything we're looking at tonight. Correct. That's correct. I had asked the applicant to provide um they're a company that has multiple properties throughout the southwest and I wanted to see what other buildings that they've done before look like. Okay.

And as you can see in these drawings, they're pretty much the same. Yes. So, um I know this is a a project by Wright, but can you tell me how many other storage units there are along gene? Yes. So, there are there are two other ones. one that is completed and that had 500 and some units inside it with 20 or I think 36 RV parking spaces and there's one at the corner of Geotry and Tativa which has about 600 units inside of it and it is not completed yet. How many years has it not been completed?

Um our principal planner Robertson is the project planner. He may be able to answer that. Good evening, Madame Chair, members of the planning commission. So, it's been it's been going on for a while and uh so we received some questions from members of the planning commission when you got this report and I tried to um get in touch with the uh with the um developer and I wasn't able to. Um but I'm I keep trying because it it seem to have uh stalled a little bit. I don't see signs of construction activities going on there at the site. So uh but um I will keep uh trying to get hold of somebody.

It was entitled in about 13. I sat on this commission when it was entitled. I remember sending notes to Chris when he first came in. Is it two or three years now? Chris two. Uh asking why nothing had done for about four years. Uh I just I I just throw that out. It's not It doesn't look good.

I I do know and not to take us too far off uh off track. Uh code has has worked with them over the years and you know per our vacant building ordinances and and other ordinances that would speak to that. Uh they they've done enough work over time to sort of avoid going into that path. Um but it's a conversation that we are continually having. So, uh, if that ever does get built and the one that is currently, uh, under construction, and I did look at Google Maps, and apparently there's three more. They may be smaller. I have no idea what the unit count is, but just with the three, we're looking at uh, over,900 storage spaces and 40 77 RV spaces. And I'll ask the applicant, is there really a market demand for this? um at that rate with the population in Palm Springs, it's one unit per 23 residents. So um anyway, another question um is um in the staff report there was a minor correction. I think I sent it to you about the clarification about which are clear windows versus spandrel.

Yes, thank you for that. And since you bring up um some changes, there were revised conditions of approval that um engineering has done it. They're just minor housekeeping issues that um really don't um change the conditions at all. It's dates are have been changed and other um things like that. So I just want to mention that. Thank you. And then this is a question for engineering I believe. Is there any uh has has the city ever uh required cool paving for large paved areas such as a parking lot?

Uh good evening. Um cool paving for commercial applications like this. Yeah. No.

No. It has been suggested by some developers that they want to pursue permeable concrete, this sort of thing. Most of those types of materials don't work out here because of the blow sand. It it plugs up the aquafer that that the intent of that type of material is so that the water can migrate through it and that sort of thing. It gets plugged up with blow sand. you get somebody 10 years down the road that decides, hey, we should slurry that and it does it plugs it up and it doesn't work.

So, um, as far as cool decking, it's been some people have proposed it, it in the in these types of applications, I find that it just doesn't hold up and it usually they find that it usually doesn't last.

So, I know LA I did a little reading about it. LA and Phoenix have instituted a pilot programs where they're using and apparently it's a coating, a spray coating that they put on the roadways which is reflective and apparently it potentially reduces the heat impact quite a bit. It's initially like 40% and over time maybe it drops to 20%. So I'm just wondering whether that's something that you know we might consider. I mean this is looks like it's about an acre of concrete. Yeah. And you know, so

so at the like city hall and the library, I'll give you a good example here at city hall. This used to be an asphalt um parking lot around the entire city hall and also the library, the leisure center. And a few years ago, we did white topping here where it is a type of concrete slurry right over the top of the existing asphalt. Um, we did that as kind of a not really of an experiment, but just kind of see how it performed out here. Um, and it's held up pretty well. Um, but concrete cracks, right?

Just like asphalt cracks. The problem is when asphalt cracks, you can slurry it, you can coat it. Um, you really can't do that with concrete when it starts to crack. So, there's pros and cons to it. Um, we're hopeful that the data from this other type of of coding that you're talking about that over the course of several summers in Tucson that it it it yields some really good results, but right now I think everybody's kind of waiting to see how it actually really does hold up. Um, slurry is typically a seven-year application.

I think everybody's kind of waiting to see what what happens with that, but it has been suggested. Okay. Thank you, Vice Chair Lamb. You had a question of staff or do you have a comment? My microphone. I believe I did have a question.

Let the rest of us know. No, I think my my only question was about the uh 1784 holdings. Were the other uh were those photos included for a reason or the No. Yes. If you have a question. Hi. Out of curiosity, I want to know if this temperature controlled building will be utilizing um solar. That is a applica a question of the applicant. Okay. Thank you.

Uh with that the we'll open the public hearing on this item. The applicant has 10 minutes and Good evening, commissioners. Um, I believe I have a PowerPoint. If we could bring that up, that would be great. And, um, would you like me to let you know when to advance the slides?

All right. Good evening, honorable commissioners. Thank you for the opportunity to share this project with you. My name is Shane Swerllo and I'm a land use consultant at Craig Lawson and Company and I'm joined by members of our design and development team from 1784 Holdings including Michelle Boach and Alex Matchner who are here tonight. Um we appreciate the opportunity to meet with you. Um so 1784 Holdings was established in 2013 and has been grow grown to be one of the leading developers and owners of storage facilities in the United States with an increased focus on Southern California and the Coachella Valley with a project um ready to be permitted soon in India. 1784 Holdings is committed to improving public perception of storage facilities through state-of-the-art construction, attractive architectural design, professional management, and enhanced security. And so um seen here is one of their typical projects. There's a strong corporate identity with the exterior design of the buildings as well as really pleasant interior spaces. So the focus is a lot on emulating the look of an office building and then having really welcoming spaces inside. The demand for climate controlled self- storage projects in Palm Springs is high and 1784 does really significant market research and economic analysis to study every market in which they're interested in investing while accounting for those projects that exist, those that are under construction, those that are in the pipeline. And the demand is high in the Coachella Valley and in particular Palm Springs. Um, and I want to highlight here that self- storage customers are very diverse. So, we think a lot about people storing their household items, but as shown on this slide, self-s storage customers include local residents, local businesses, community groups, people working from home, uh, real estate agents, construction businesses, homestagers, sales reps, sports teams, freelancers. It's quite common for community groups, different organizations to need storage units for whatever storage needs that

they have. And alongside that, demand for secure RV storage is high in Palm Springs. Um, in part due to its proximity to worldclass recreational areas like Joshua Tree National Park and and the many recreational areas throughout the desert. Um, the demand for alternative modes of travel and accommodations, including RVs, significantly increased during the pandemic and has been sustained since the pandemic hit and continues to grow. And in addition, one of the main drivers for RV storage demand is new residential development, of which there's been new residential in Palm Springs and surrounding communities. And so many of the communities in Palm Springs and the Coachella Valley have HOAs and CCNRs that prohibit the storage of RVs within the residential neighborhoods. So there's this demand. There's an inability to store them in the residential neighborhoods, which leads to the need to have a convenient, secure place to store them that's still nearby. So on that note, we really feel that this specific site is the optimal location for self- storage and RV storage because it is in an industrial zone that permits this use and it's directly adjacent to the Palm Springs International Airport, which is shaded green in this exhibit. And I want to focus even more on the airport and its land use compatibility plan, which designates our site into two airport land use compatibility zones. Um so seen here you can see we're in compatibility zone C which is the extended approach departure zone shown in green and compatibility zone B1 which is the inner approach departure zone shown in yellow. Um we worked very closely with airport land use commission staff and with the commission in Riverside County um to review this project and one of their key priorities for sites in these zones so close to the airport is to have low occupancy uses. they do not want a lot of people congregating on the site and um so we we feel that this is really a perfect use. Storage is a low occupancy use. It's a

quiet use. Um and it's a use with very high demand. So when thinking where the ideal locations, this is a site that that we we feel confident in. Um so Glenn did a nice job walking through the site plan. Um and and again what we're proposing is a two-story climate controlled self-s storage building near the center of the property. There would be eight vehicular parking spaces located directly east of this use um which conforms with the zoning requirement for this use. Um those would be accessed from District Center Drive. And the east side of the building would include two internal loading bays. So these would be flat bays. They wouldn't necessarily be loading docks. They would be bays where a a moving truck could drive into. There would be glass rise tech rollup doors to access each of the loading bays. There would be a customer service office and a caretakaker's unit all on the east side of the building. The RV storage area would be located south of the building with gated access u from the customer parking lot and an emergency exit on District Center Drive. Um and there would be 41 RV storage spaces and 8ft screen wall and landscape buffers on all sides. Um, no development is proposed at this time on the north portion of the lot. So, if development happened there in the future, it would conform with whatever the allowable uses are. We're envisioning potentially a commercial use. Um, but as part of of what's being proposed, there is no proposal for any development there at this moment in time. Um Glenn did a really nice job highlighting that we conform with all relevant zoning regulations for this zone and this table or similar table is included in the staff report. Um so attractive architectural design is a high priority for 1784 holdings and this project will feature a contemporary design that emulates the appearance of an office building with high quality materials on each elevation. The materials include significant use of

concrete masonry unit and auburn and gray colors. Um, brick elements near the center of the gene arrey facing elevation, dark metal accents articulating the building corners and spanning the tops of windows as well as glass on all elevations. Um, and there is a mix of vision glass and spandrel glass. Um, the windows at the building corners would provide views of display areas. Um, and those would not be storage units. So they would they would remain um open in their appearance. Um this rendering shows the project from Gina Tree Trail. Um our proposal for landscaping is to balance shade trees such as desert ironwood and blue palo verde with California fan palm. So, I know um that Glenn mentioned that um that these appear as tropical palms, which we agree this was the best we could do with our rendering software, but our intent is California fan palms um which are part of the um the iconic civic um branding, the monument signage on Geonatri and many of the nearby developments. Um and these renderings show the district center drive frontage which would have a similar mix of landscaping. Um, so a little bit more about the screen wall. It would match the building's materials and colors with auburn precision block and gray splitface block. Um, and the screen wall would feature a staggered design with every other 25- ft segment set back approximately 2 feet 8 in. Glenn described um a metal accent, but actually what we're proposing in those setback areas are breeze blocks to as a tribute to the breeze block tradition and Palm Springs and um and specifically the vista view pattern that that's very common throughout the city. Um, as far as the building materials go, um, these are a couple photos of of comparable projects which feature the mix of materials that are a big part of the brand of 1784 holdings and their

projects throughout the country, including in various desert locations. Um, and the mix includes concrete masonry unit in multiple colors, brick, metal elements, and rollup glass rise doors at the loading bays. Um, so here you see our landscape plan and the mix of trees and shrubs that are proposed including desert ironwood, blue palo verde, and California fan palms on the east and west sides of the property. And we're proposing a row of velvet mosquite trees along the south edge of the RV storage area. In conclusion, this project offers a variety of benefits. It provides a service that's in very high demand at an appropriate location with airport adjacent occupancy restrictions that really limit the scope of allowable uses. Um, and the applicant has a proven track record in setting the industry's highest standards for operations, management, design, construction, and security. The project enhances a long vacant site with attractive improvements that will encourage future economic development in the largely undeveloped vicinity. And in addition to not generating adverse environmental impacts, the project will generate jobs associated with operations, maintenance, and construction. And it will provide tangible benefits to the city through permitting and development impact fees. Um so we're really excited about the opportunity to add this project to the um Gene Autry Trail Corridor and um I'm here to answer any questions that you might have. Thank you again. and ask you questions after.

Okay, sounds good. Are there any members of the public who wish to speak? We have no other members of this the public that were not associated with the applicant team that wish to speak. Uh if there is, come up.

Judy Deerek, Palm Springs, California. I'm getting a lot of practice tonight. Um I really want to compliment the presentation. I listen to a lot of planning presentations and this is one of the better ones. Very well presented. Seems like it's very well designed. Um the it gives me an opportunity to get up here with a planning issue that I've been concerned about for the last couple of years. It need you need to be on point to this project.

Well, it is to this project. What I what I want to ask about is the lighting plan for it because what I'm noticing in the industrial manufacturing area from um Ramon if you go towards at nighttime when you travel towards Vistuchino what I notice if the project's going up and this is in that area that the lighting plans don't seem to be meeting what I think the requirement is that the shading that the glare would not go out into Gene Autry. And if you I invite you to travel to see what I'm talking about if you're not already aware of it. And I don't know what the lighting plan is for this, but I don't want it to aggravate more than what's already happening. That um as you go there is a turn and you've got lighting so glareful that you you can barely get around that corner. Um, and what what I've wondered about for a long time is to what extent is the city council and the planning commission attending to the glare issues and keeping those lights at a lowest level possible and capped so that the glare doesn't go off the pre the site or the premises themselves. Um, so I'm hoping when you're looking at the lighting plan for this development that that also has been taken care of. Thank you.

Are there any other members of the public who wish to speak? If the applicant would come back up, are there questions of the applicant? Commissioner Miller, I see that you're proposing no covering on the um RV storage area. had you considered putting some covers because I know a recent self storage that opened on San Rafll, I think it's called Secure Space, um has quite a bit of covered RV parking and I assume that's because they had demand or their marketing showed that that was a desirable attribute for people so that they didn't get so hot and scorched in the sun. Had you considered it?

It's a good question. It's something that's been considered. It's something that that has been done in other projects, but there wasn't an analysic analysis of the demand and and the effect that that would have on rents for the units. And generally, the the analysis supported that there wasn't a demand for the covered RV spaces. So, none are proposed for this project.

If you did do angled uh RV cover, it would provide a a venue for solar panels as well. So, something that good of a win-win. I'd like to piggyback on that. My concern was on security for those RVs. So there's there's such open air that what's precluding a malcontented individual from hopping over the fence and causing mischief.

It's a good question. 1784 has very uh robust security protocols through cameras and and monitoring systems that have worked really well at all of their projects. This will be a completely walled off RV storage area with gated access. There will also be somebody living on site at caretakers unit. So there will be that on-site presence combined with the um with the security protocols. Yeah. But that person will be inside on the on the northern end of the building. If I'm trying to steal tires or something, I'm going to hop over the fence from the southern end. What's going to alert the person who's inside watching TV at 10 o'clock at night that someone's outside?

Good. Another good question. So the security system wouldn't be tied just directly to the person living on site. there would actually be an on a security company constantly monitoring with alerts. This is this has worked well at 1784's properties throughout the country because nobody wants to have any of that vandalism and people are going to be paying a lot to have secure. So um so that that's something that's at top of mind and the protocols will be in place to make sure that the surveillance and eyes on the street are happening through the different infrastructure plus the person on site. John go.

Um just wondered about the the remaining land that you have available. Um do you have any uh idea of what would go there or when that might actually get developed? At this point, no. Um but that the intent would be likely for some type of commercial use. You want to go? Yeah, that's your phone.

Good evening. I had asked this question earlier. Um, will you be using uh solar for your temperature controlled facility or are you thinking of a a alternative? Right now, the plan is to conform with Cal Green requirements for solar. So, we would be implementing the required procedures under the green building code. Yeah. Um, thank you. Um, couple of questions. Um, what are you using for paving uh the parking areas? I believe it's asphalt. Is that correct, Michelle? Concrete. Okay. I apologize. It's concrete that we're proposing for the paving.

It's concrete. And what are you doing for a roof? The roofing material. Uh, I might invite Michelle who's a part of our design and development team to answer some of these questions. Hi, Michelle Bach with 1784 Holdings. Our roof is a standard white tpo roof.

Okay. Um, and then um I've seen recent well I've seen other storage facilities and they do clear vision glass and when you drive by them all you see are a row of ugly doors. So um I really I'll I'll make this recommendation later but um what's the reason for that? I mean I I one thing is natural light but you know it's it's a blight to look at those doors I think.

Yeah. So actually our facilities these uh display corners that we call them um is you know we have limited signage and it's another way for us to do marketing for the REIT that manages the facility. So, the doors that are shown in the display areas are only three foot by eight foot doors and they are nonoperable. They're faux doors in a five foot hallway corridor. Okay. Just for maintenance to clean the windows. Um but there is no storage in them. So, unless you are um management or cleaning maintenance, you are not allowed even in that corridor.

Okay. And uh what color door are you proposing here? Um it we don't know the rate that's going to manage the facility yet. So all right answer. And then I saw you answered one of the questions about the offset on the wall uh which is good. Um and um so there's some areas in the RV parking uh towards the ends that are striped. Um would it be possible to make those landscaped? Absolutely. and with some trees at least to provide a little bit of shade. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. No issue with that.

All right. Um and then this is more a question for the developer, but maybe you can ask it and it's moreformational. I had a question um with a description of the proposed change uh a single ground parcel with two condominium airspaces. What is tell me about that. So yeah, essentially what we're proposing, there's currently three different lots on the site to merge them all into one ground lot and then essentially create two condominium style lots. So what we're proposing is all on the south condominium lot. Um and then the north condominium lot would remain available for future development.

Okay. And um are you you you're going to be the owner of the ground parcel or does it remain with the original land owner? So, so yeah, 1784 is under escrow for the whole Okay. Um, so, and I'll just repeat that because I'm not sure if the microphone picked it up, but yeah, so 1784 would own the entire site. At some point, they might potentially sell that north parcel, but it would remain like a condominium style parcel that would be owned.

Okay. All right. Thank you. Um, just see. And then um I I asked staff about it, but would you be amendable to doing something like cool painting? As I said earlier, you've got about an acre of concrete and um yeah, I'm just I I'm a little concerned about the heat island effect and you know Yeah.

Um I I think it's something we're willing to look into. I'd like to run it by our construction team and our engineering team to really kind of see what the cost and the benefits are with it. Um versus maybe just imposing some more landscaping shading instead. Um but we we'll certainly consider it. Okay. But you had seen some negative impacts of the cool paving in Arizona, right? Yeah. I live in Phoenix, Arizona. We're based Okay. Well, you're one of the best cities.

Yeah. Um we're headquartered in Scottsdale, Arizona. Um there are parts of Phoenix that have implemented on uh public city streets the school pavement and as just a resident um pure resident experiencing this um it's hard to drive on. So I see that it is can probably have an engineering benefit to it but it's it sends off a glare from the pavement because it's like this silver white color. So sometimes it be hard to to drive on. In Arizona it has just as many sunny days as Palm Springs does. So but that's just my own personal experience.

Well, in this application there's not so much driving as opposed to just parking and Yeah. So that's why I would um like to just explore the idea more. Okay. All right. Thank you. Oh, is your landscape architect from the desert? Um, yeah. So, we are using um Egan engineering. They're headquartered in India. The there are a couple of things. Did you Oh, sorry. Landscaping is evergreen and yeah, sorry. Thank you. Um, evergreen design and yes, they're they're in Arizona.

They're in Arizona. There's um the pelverity trees are undergoing a blight here uh that they either don't survive or they get very thin and lose most of their greenery. I I was wondering if your landscape architect was aware of that. The second question was are you aware that the velvet pelverity is deciduous and is also thorny? I'm sorry, the uh velvet mosquite. I am not, but we can certainly run those by our landscape architect and make sure that he's aware of that, which I'm sure he is. And

it's uh the the other thing is that your landscape is fairly light on the meandering path in front of your property. um given what else is out there in terms of landscape uh in adjacent properties, you've uh you've gone very minimal. Okay. We're we're happy to reook at the landscape plan and see if there's any other items plant material that we can add to it.

Thank you. Uh are there no other questions? the matters before are there any the matters before the commission. Thank you. Um I'm sorry I didn't know if there was still an open comment about the lighting that needed to be addressed the phototric plan. Right. So Madam Chair, in your packet is the lighting plan. It was not in the presentation. So there are there's a phototric plan and the light fixtures staff has evaluated and it meets the lighting standards of the zoning code. Thank you. Uh the matters before the commission. Thank you. And I I have a couple comments. Uh sure.

I want to start. Okay.

I just want to say that I'm really this is something that's in it's entitled uh it's appropriate under our current zoning and I think it's a missed opportunity. I'm really sorry that I'm I'm going to vote for it, but I'm really sorry that I have to. Uh and I hope that when we do our zoning, we don't continue to put uh storage facilities up and down our main roads. Uh there's going to be housing next door to it. I think we could have come up with something much nicer on this location. And I also think it doesn't meet um that lu the general plan basically says that to work with the chamber to promote and attract new industrial businesses to Palm Springs. This is attracting an an old business that um we have a lot of. So, I just I just want to say that to staff. Um, first is is my my sorrow about seeing this site go this way and then I want to open it up to the the group in terms of comments, other comments. Vice Chair Lion.

Um because of the location and this is on Highway 111, it gets tens of thousands of vehicle trips a day. Um and it is the architecture, the massing of the building. We at the planning commission don't get particularly involved in the architecture. That's something that you'll the applicant will need to work on with the U architectural review committee. But the massing of the building and the looks of the wall are very uh flat and institutional and I I'll say very utilitarian. And that's not what Palm Springs wants in in our buildings that are permanently visible. Um, I'm hoping that through the architectural uh review processing that our committee will introduce articulation into the wall and into the building itself. uh that they'll make it a three-dimensional building. Right now, there's some and and thank you for having added some decorative elements, but they are flat. Um and they need to be three-dimensional. Um so, like Chair Wear, I will support the the project and I will vote for it. Um, but I'm certainly hoping hoping that we can um coach it along into something that is more in keeping with new projects that are being built uh

throughout the city that have even in industrial areas. um but have more interest and to them and a um lighter hand on the design.

Uh I agree with the chair on her comment about the appropriateness of this and I agree with uh vice chair Lean's assessment of the architecture. Um I think um some it it it is a missed opportunity both in design and function. Um I think uh definitely though uh building walls need to be better articulated more movement. I think the sitewall around the parking um if you look at the dimensions the building is 262 this is a long gutry 262 feet long of concrete block with a stripe in it. You have another 240 ft long of a block wall with a stripe in it. And then if you turn the corner on on District Center Drive, you got another 270 227 lineal feet of wall. So if you're coming from the south on Gene Autry, you're potentially seeing over 700 feet of block wall and I think that's a and the little two-foot offset with the breeze block is not adequate in my opinion. Um I think um I I raised the question about the vision lights looking at doors. I think it's really I would rather personally see them frosted with maybe you know clear light above. I I fake looking at fake doors. I I don't get it, you know. So, I I uh I I really would um question the use of those clear glass windows looking at doors. Um and I think there are ex other examples in Palm Springs as well as other within the valley where they've got much more innovative, much more creative solutions architecturally. And I just think this misses the mark big time. Um uh

definitely increase the number of plantings and trees along Gene Autry. Um and at the islands in the RV parking um I do have concerns about the amount of heat that the parking lot as I said it's about an acre of concrete uh that it's going to radiate. So any shading um elements that can be either provided for some of the RV spaces or additional trees I think would go a long way uh as well as exploring potentially cool paving as an option. I I I don't have the answer. I know it's relatively new, but I think something needs to be done about mitigating an acre of concrete. Um, and I think, you know, even though it's the caretaker's unit, you've got three tiny little windows for that unit. If you look at the elevation, it just I don't know. I I it's a missed opportunity for both the person who's living there as well as an architectural um opportunity. Um, and yeah, so that's all I've got. Thank you. Well, and now for the good news. Um, um, no, I do share, uh, some of the concerns from the commissioners who mentioned the design. However, I think the color scheme is not bad, although I would like to see a little bit more of a pop of color perhaps at the entrance, but I do appreciate the desert color scheme. I agree that especially there needs to be some vertical breakup in the building I believe because it's very linear and I think you could relatively easily do some um vertical elements that still retain um a semblance of a rectangle which I understand you want to do for um

efficiency in storage uh unit placement. Uh, I agree that the wall, especially along Gene Autri and to the south, needs more articulation. Um, did you mention it was 2 feet? I think it needs to be more than 2 feet certainly. Um, but overall, I think we got to realize this is a permitted use. Um while we all would lament for something um more interesting and more useful, we are in the zone of the airport which doesn't want a lot of congregation um for obvious reasons. Um so in that respect, I'm going to support this um again with some direction to the ARC to make some improvements. I wanted to mention the landscape plan. The trees the trees that are proposed are pretty thorny. Um I don't think that's appropriate. I think they could make that softer. There are things that they could do. Uh there clearly needs to be more trees. I agree with staff about the 36inch box, but I do absolutely do not agree with the tree plan that they have. Uh it's it's just it's too harsh for that location. It might be if we were in um in the middle, it's sort of a tree plan for the middle of a ghetto uh rather than uh a major boulevard in Palm Springs. And um I just I you know so I think we're almost done with comments and we should be at motions. Um I'm going to start and suggest that we approve this with strong direction to the ARC.

Uh and Commissioner Rottman, do you want to do items? I think we want to include the walls, the building and the landscape plan and the shading on the RV struct area. Yeah. So um uh some of the items I mentioned and and to repeat um other uh people on the commission increase the size and quantity of trees um around the perimeter of the project as well as the addition of trees and planting in the RV parking area. Um address the tree species issue that the chair raised. um look at possible um ways to mitigate the heat island of the parking area, the RV parking area, whether it's shading for the RVs themselves or looking at something like cool paving as an option. um add articulation and movement to the building and the perimeter walls around the parking. Um a more creative architectural approach uh uh more appropriate to Palm Springs. Um, look at the use of clear vision windows at the corners uh where you see empty doors behind them. And did I say larger offsets for the

perimeter walls? No, larger offsets. and and variety of materials. And if I could add more one more thing uh on slide 15 uh demonstrates or illustrates I think that they need to coordinate the signage locations with the landscaping. [Music] Um, so we have a motion. Uh, do I so move. I'll second that.

Uh, any discussion? We call the role, please. Commissioner Rottman, yes. Commissioner Miller, yes. Chair Wormick, yes. Vice Chair Lean, yes. Commissioner Baker, yes. Uh, and Commissioner Morurell. Yes.

Motion carries. Um, we are at item B, a request by First Industrial Realy Trust owner to certify a final environmental impact report FEIR, an approval of a statement of overriding conditions, a tenative parcel map for two parcels, and a major development permit for the construction of two warehouse buildings on a 96 acre parcel located at the southeast corner of North Indian Canyon Drive and 18th Street. Staff report, please.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, this is a 2 and a halfyear project coming before you today. Uh and the request is for a major development permit ten of parcel map uh to combine multiple lots into two lots. Certify the final EIR adopt the statement of overriding considerations and adopt the mitigation and monitoring program. In your packet included the final EIR, the overriding considerations and also the mitigation monitoring program. So those were given to the planning commissioners in their packets last week. So looking at the zoning map for the site, u this site is at the north end of town along Indian Canyon Drive to the west. This red box shows you the area that the city council adopted an ordinance several years ago amending the zoning code to allow development standards in the E1 and M1 to allow warehouse and fulfillment centers. The uh planning commission approved a similar project that's before you tonight on a lot that's uh right here adjacent to the proposed warehouse development that you're reviewing tonight. Looking at the aerial, you'll see that this is at the interchange of the I 10 and North Indian Canon Drive, showing 19th Avenue to the south and 18th Avenue to the north and north Indian Indian Canyon Drive on the right hand side or to the east. Next to uh across the street from on Indian Canyon is a development called Coachillan which is in Desert Hot Springs. So the properties to the east of North Indian is in Desert Hot Springs and the property uh to the west is Palm Springs. So when the EIR

looked at cumulative effects and it was fully analyzed, there are several developments that are taking place in this general area uh such as other warehouses, distribution centers, and the ER um fully analyzed all of those developments. The logistics center proposal was on 96 acres. As you mentioned, there's a building one which is the larger building. Building two is the smaller building. The setbacks vary uh along North Indian and along uh the other 18th Avenue and Noble Drive. Uh the less of the setback is 177 ft from North Indian Cannon Drive. The building heights will be 53 feet well within what is permitted in that zone. Uh this is a exhibit showing the ten of parcel map which is 38790 showing the two lots the larger lot to the north and the smaller lot to the south. Uh and this happens to show the outline of the development that was approved by the planning commission which was appealed by city council and approved by city council. This is an overall site plan showing North Indian Canyon Drive on the uh right hand side, 18th Avenue, which would be built to a half road standard, including sidewalks, curbs, gutters, Noble Drive, or I'm sorry, Indigo Drive, which is the very west. Uh, and then Noble Drive, which is in the south between the two properties. there's a connection between the two lots and then building two which is oriented north south and 19th Avenue to the south. So, you'll see that in the site plan, the auto parking areas are at the ends of the building and then the stalls for uh

trailers are located um the middle portions and all of the bays and uh loading docks are on the interior north, south or east, west sides. So, there are points into the build into the property. Let me point pointer is not working. There are four entry points along North Indian Canyon Drive. There's a traffic light currently at Coach Chillin. Uh there's another traffic light that will be added as part of the uh Snyder project here on um 19 18th Avenue or 19th Avenue. And then there are two entrances uh off of 19th Avenue to the uh smaller building. An internal circulation happens uh along Noble Drive and Indigo Drive which will be private streets internal to the site. These are just blowups showing uh what the building uh uh will look like. Uh the site plan water retention basins are located on the south portion of the lot. uh the the hydraology in WQMP has been fully analyzed and our engineering department can discuss that uh when they speak shortly. And also this is building number two and this also shows the part the adjacent 700,000T warehouse to the east. There are several rendings of what the building could uh will possibly look like. Each of the corners of the building has an office element. Uh it is two stories within the office elements and then obviously it's a warehouse. Uh within the internal port other portions they provided uh as part of the EIR they needed to do aesthetics review uh and

provide some perspectives. This is a view from the I10 towards uh the east showing uh the windmills here and then beyond is the buildings north of the MLAN industrial tract. There are building elevations. There we go. There are building elevations that are provided showing the length of the building and the type of articulation and so forth. um as a followup to the ARC that reviewed the previous building, uh they will have to go through that same review and the architecture review committee has experience reviewing these large buildings and uh offering some changes to the design. The landscape plan uh provides landscaping throughout the site uh including the types of desert plants uh that will survive in the wind and the uh heat that is currently out there. Uh and then this shows the water retention basin areas here to the south of building one. The uh site will be uh contain a wall that is a CMU wall. This is a design of the wall here showing the CMU8. This one has 14 foot and uh the gates that will provide security for the site. So, moving on to the EIR. Um there are it was fully analyzed in a document that was uh presented to the public uh several months ago. uh it was circulated in January, I'm sorry, December through January and then there was a second recirculation of the EIR for an additional 20 days based upon some

comments that the city had received. The less than significant impacts are shown here. Uh then there are significant impacts with mitigation measures which include biology, cultural, greenhouse gas, geology and soils. And then significant and unavoidable impacts will be transportation and that's VMT and the number of trucks and cars that will visit the site. There was a fiscal impact analysis that was completed. Uh this is a snapshot of what it was of what it is what building ones and two uh with the annual property tax anticipated the sales tax anticipated 750 jobs are what is anticipated the EIR evaluated those number of jobs what construction spending would be the sales tax how many jobs would be included during construction and then the cumulative impact In order for the planning commission to certify the EIR, you need to determine that a statement of overriding consideration is appropriate. This document says that there are land use benefits that are consistent with the general plan in the zoning. That it meets market demands for industrial space. That there are economic and fiscal benefits of the project that encourages economic growth and diversity within the city. Increase the property tax revenue through collection of taxes, licenses and fees. Introduce a new industry to the city and broaden our economic base. Also, there are public benefit to infrastructure including roads, water, and sewer lines and uh pay substantial development impact fees such as our MSHCP, our TU fee, our public arts fees, and so forth. So, staff is recommending that you approve the ten of parcel map, certify

the EIR, adopt the statement of override considerations, and adopt the mitigation monitoring program. So, Madam Chair, that concludes my report. Um we do feel that it meets the findings that are approved all 11 of them that are in the uh staff report and the resolution. Oops. Thank you. Before we go further, I just need to disclose that I met with one of the principles um Paul Lube about a week and a half ago and went over the site plan uh issues and reviewed the site plan.

Uh the E was not out. So I have no discussions regarding that. Um we have do we have a report from the EI consultant? Should we do that? I would like to do that before we ask questions of staff unless people have questions. We don't have a report, Madam Chair. We would typically take that as questions. Oh, we don't have a report. Not on the ER. So she's not present. She's here, but we're not doing a specific presentation. and it would be questions coming. Okay. So, um then I'll open it up to questions starting with Commissioner Morel and coming down the line.

Um yeah, I have a few questions. uh for engineering. Um there's a reference uh in the in the conditions uh item 41 to a septic system, but um there's other uh references to the fact that they're going to have sewer and water um to the site. So I wondered why we need that septic. Uh

sure, I'll explain that. Um, at the time that these conditions were written, the um, sewer system that is being proposed in DHS in Desert Hot Springs was not completed. The treatment plant wasn't ready. It u is just barely coming online. They're still installing sewer lines. So, in the event that that didn't happen or if they ran into problems and they ended up building this building ready to occupy prior to a sewer system being ready to connect to, they needed a way to um treat their sewer. Um, in the event that the sewer does become available, then they'll actually have to probably put in a dual system, abandon the septic system that they put in and connect. Um, this is one of those the chicken and the egg which which which was going to happen first, right? So, we decided that it would be best to have all of those conditions in there because currently in that area there is no sewer. It is it is going in as we speak. But, um, whether or not it'll be available to them at the time that they're ready, that's another question.

All right. Um well the the rest of the report it seems like they're getting a sewer and so that that concern concerned me a bit. Um there also for planning um I noticed several references in the document to um Palm Desert and I think those just have to be corrected to Palm Springs. Um I don't know in the uh in um I don't have a page number. I'm not sure. I just um

but is it the the EIR which or the staff report? I think it was the EIR. Yeah, it was the one um with the mitigations. Um we had um some additional conditions in the other warehouse project. Um so we we mirrored the conditions that you had with the other warehouse such as um outdoor patio space for employees, a spot for the um you know like food trucks if they came to visit.

Trucks. Yeah. Yeah. So, if you look in our conditions, uh I'll have to give you exactly what those numbers, but they are included in there. Okay. I just wanted to be sure they were in there. We also had um some greenhouse gas mitigation measures like uh limiting truck idling and um possibly uh if they're going to do refrigerated warehouse they would have to put in uh electric outlets at the loading docks. So things like that.

That project was different in that um for a host of reasons that are complicated and beyond my technical expertise. It had an un unmititigated and unavoidable impact in greenhouse gases. And in part that's because of the way they designed the buildings and they designed the project and they didn't take full advantage of some of the construction methods and other opportunities available to them under SQA and under other regulations to get them below an impact threshold. this project has. So there are already mitigation measures proposed as part of the mitigation uh monitoring program and as part of the conditions of approval here that bring greenhouse gas below the unimpact threshold. So there's no nexus for us to require those additional conditions the way that we did for the prior project because there was an unmitigatable impact there. Yeah,

if I may, those additional conditions really come in uh the other agreements that were signed on the other project,

right? And my understanding as I look through this and our conditions is those those other agreements are also in this project and they've been agreed to and we have a condition as which is far as far as our attorneys will allow us to go which is that they will comply with the terms of those agreements. When the applicant's up, I think we can ask him about those agreements, but I I do believe it includes all of the electricity for the trucks uh and rooftop solar and other things.

Right. There are regulations on the the minutes that a truck can idle and it would have to be turned off. Uh and also those types of mitigation measures that the um the forklifts be electric that uh as soon as technology advances and fleets become electrified that they will be able to provide that those charging stations on on site and so forth.

Great. Yeah, that that takes care of a lot of uh what my questions were. I also wondered, this didn't come up last time, but there's no um Sunline bus service to Gene Autry. Uh I'm sorry to Indian Canyon. There is on Gene Autry. I wondered how um the city could go about getting Sunline to provide service. Well, when an EIR gets um sent to public agencies, Sunline is one of the ones that receives the the notice. um they did not comment but that's noted.

It's a difficult uh question to answer because uh understand and hear the point. They are of course you know an agency not under the city's sole jurisdiction or uh control. Um but there are on certainly ongoing dialogues with Sunline and I know that they are undertaking work to look at improving bus service throughout the valley including Palm Springs. And so what I would imagine will happen over time and we're having those conversations with them in in terms of projections that they're looking at are you know we are now looking at 3 plus million square feet in this area and a lot of employees and as these come online I am certain that they will evaluate the service needs and and look at what they can do to provide service up here.

Yeah. Um okay rest of my questions are for the applicant. Commissioner Rottman.

Yeah. Uh for engineering. So one of the concerns I have is um these trucks are heavily loaded and big and I've just wonder the standards that the city is using for the road and intersection improvements. are they comparable to like Highway 10 so that it's going to it'll withstand long-term uh use and abuse and that it doesn't fall on the city to maintain these roads in the future. Well, I can tell you that our roadway sections are nowhere close to Highway 10 or standards.

Though that roadway section is I think in some cases 24 in thick to 30 in thick. Have you ever seen the entire section it the amount of steel and concrete? We couldn't afford to build roads that way. So the section that we actually have that we are um imposing on the conditions for this project um are actually um the same thoroughare major thoroughare roadway sections that we use on every major thoroughare in the city. So that's being imposed on Indian and it's also being posed on their private sections. Now, as an applicant, you can ask them this later when they come up to give their presentation, but I think that in some cases, they're actually going to be proposing for the on-site stuff a thicker um section that might might even be concrete, which would supersede our um conditions, but that's something that they'll propose to do on their own. And the city doesn't have the uh uh purview to uh require a more substantial section.

Not on site. No, not not not off not offsite. Yeah. Offsite. We already have approved adopted standards for roadway sections and that's what we're imposing on this project.

Okay. Um uh and then in you know in the IR it talks about transportation is uh unavoidable. The mit it's it's not mitigatable. Um so and part of it was uh the offset was about uh economic benefit for the city and uh and specifically tax revenue. And so, um, I'm I'm wondering, um, how the city expects to collect taxes, whether it's just property tax or if they're looking to get tax from some commercial transaction that happens with the delivery of these goods.

Yeah. So a few things and I'll I'll go back to the slide here and this is you know caveat here is this is information provided by the applicant but we've run it through uh several of our teams including our finance director including our chief economic development officer and his uh the consulting team that is advising him on the economic development master plan who have a lot of experience with this type of development and they agreed that these numbers felt you know solid. Uh so there's a few different ways that we are generating revenue. The first as you mentioned is property tax. Uh so annually based on what we believe roughly will be the the value of this project you know 2 million square feet on on 90 something acres in this particular part of the of the city. We believe that that will generate at the standard 1 and a4% property tax $1.6 million annually in property tax. The city's share of that a quarter goes elsewhere 1% comes to the city. So we're looking at $1.3 million annually potentially in property tax revenue to the city. Um there's also the annual sales tax revenue that is generated. So again we are assuming because this is what the applicant is telling us at least a partial fulfillment center. And so conservatively based on what they think are reasonable annual sales and the 9 and a quarter percent uh well sorry let me back up. There is the 9 and a4% sales tax that's applicable in Palm Springs. Um of that 3% uh is is what the city claims. So we get 1% measure J and there's you know other measure A other things that we get in there. So 3% sales tax effectively is what we get. So it's generating about $2.26 million annually in sales tax total. And of that since we get or 3% we're looking at about $750,000 annually. And again we think that that's probably a little bit on the conservative side um because there's a potential that a portion of this be a warehousing component which generates less sales tax for the city. So between those two things, we feel comfortable assuming around $2 million annually in ongoing revenue to the city. So that's

what we can kind of project, you know, once it's fully operational and online. And I think they're projecting 2029 for online. In the interim, there's also potentially substantial economic benefit from the construction activity itself. So they are uh they have estimated $140 million in construction spend um which would generate $13 million in sales tax. This is a a more difficult number to uh to project in terms of what that benefit would be to the city because some of that's going to be dependent on where goods are purchased, how it's purchased, and and how uh that monetary relationship works. But we would expect at least some portion of that $13 million over the three years of construction to come to the city. So, you know, we're talking in the magnitude of of millions of dollars here. Um, then when you sort of factor in all of the indirect benefits, and I should say the applicant can certainly speak to this in more detail, but um, of having 285 construction jobs over a number of years, plus 750 ongoing permanent jobs, you know, the the additional payroll, the additional spending locally, uh, gas, restaurants, food, you know, whatever it might be. Um the the the economic indirect economic impact of this project is estimated to be about $330 million and that sort of tracks when you look at the scale of this compared to the last one and that one we estimated about $110 million of economic impact. So we think that this is scaled appropriately based on on our understanding of the project. So,

um, and I can ask the applicant more detail about what they how the operation of this is going to be and, um, and how the sales tax is actually generated for the city. So, I'll I'll save that for the applicant. Um, uh, let's see here. Um, uh, and then the other thing is again related to transportation. you know, there's changes in the federal policy about um electric vehicles and charging that are look like they're going to impact state policy. Um and so does that that change change the EIR um in such a way that what the assumptions were used no longer apply?

I might give you the higher order answer. Uh I talked to our director of sustainability about this and some of her experience on this and then certainly uh Anna Chidari who is our uh SQL consultant is on the line and and I may ask her to give the more technical response but at sort of a higher sort of level we don't really know enough about what the impacts of those changes federally are going to be at the state level yet. Certainly we're expecting litigation. Certainly we're expecting push back. And what our sustainability director sort of expressed to me today was there is just sort of a natural market move towards uh EV um infrastructure generally happening at the market level regardless of some of these these federal policies. So such that we don't really know enough uh to make any determination one way or another about what would change or need to change in the EIR. I think we'd also from my perspective say that we need to be consistent in how we've applied this to some of the other projects in the area. So we need to be able to have comparable data. We made certain assumptions for the last facility. We need to make certain assumptions here. Based on what we know today, we feel comfortable uh with what we've assumed, but I will see if Anna has anything to add or correct in terms of what I've said.

All right. Thank you. And I don't know if you have anything to add. Are you there? Yeah, I'm here. Can you hear me? Yes. Oh, yes. Good evening, members of the plan commission. Madam Chair, I'm sorry I couldn't be there in person. Uh, you are quite correct, Chris. It's not going to really make much of a change. Um, hello. We can hear you. You might just be getting feedback.

Okay. Sorry. I mean, the uh the graphic just disappeared. Um, and because we're looking at SQA more at the local regional level and we also have our traffic uh, and air quality GHD sub consultant sitting there in the audience and he can answer to that in a little more detail than I can. If you would like him to come up, he is sitting right there. Jean Carlo. Madam Chair, do you want to entertain that question now from the subconsultant?

Yes. If the if the uh consultant is here and he'd like to come forward, just introduce yourself, please. Uh good evening, Madam Chair, members of the planning commission. My name is Gian Carlo Gandini, uh principal at Gandini Group. We were a subconsent with Anna's team um helping prepare some of the technical studies um to support the findings of the EIR. Um I think um Chris has already kind of said as much as we can at this stage. There's not really any clear direction in terms of what sort of effect the changes at the federal level will have at the state level. Um so as far as the analysis for the EI goes um we have to work within the the framework of the current state uh requirements. Um and that you know for the document as it's prepared today um those changes wouldn't have any effect right now. Alternate Hernandez, do you have questions? Uh, Commissioner Miller.

Um, I don't have anything. I just want to commend the staff and the consultants for putting together a great AIR and the um the conditions from engineering and planning especially. I thought they were very thorough and I appreciate uh you picking up the conditions from the last uh warehouse next door. Uh my only question is that we could possibly get these ERS ahead of time like we did the last time. It's a little difficult to digest voluous materials in three days.

Vice Chair Lane has already chastised us for this, Commissioner Baker, but uh yeah, no, I I think we absolutely appreciate that. uh you know 1,700 pages of reading over the weekend is not ideal. Uh so apologies for that and some of this it it has been a little frenetic in terms of trying to get across the finish line. Um so uh it's on us and we'll do a better job going forward. Vice Chair,

I'll start with what Commissioner Baker said. Um, I have a number of questions and these are kind of as I came across them, so they're not necessarily grouped by topic. Can we start with parking? Um, the numbers in the staff report didn't I couldn't really track. Can I is it safe for me to say that the project is neither overparked nor underparked?

Right. Correct. After we um discussed this the the tra the parking numbers uh the ones that are on your the site plan um let me go back to it. I know they're very hard to read because in a slide like this they're difficult to see. Uh actually I cut them off so never mind. So um in in your packet there are two plans that show um site A and B um building one and two and the very top corner shows the parking calculations. So in the staff report it mentions 312 I think that is not correct. The numbers that are are in the table are the correct ones. So they are meeting the parking standards. They are not overparked. Okay, thank you.

Sorry for that long explanation for

Okay. Um, and I'll I'll I'll just put this out here that uh when it comes time to um take a vote or to u make any changes in the project. I will note that on the findings number uh four and five on page seven of the resolution one deals with the proposed height and massing. We're supposed to find that the project is consistent with the surrounding development and the other deals with uh finding the number five deals with the uh proposed setbacks and placements being consistent with the surrounding development. the findings that are in the resolution don't really answer either of those. Um, so I'm at some point I'll be looking for some wording that is a little bit more on point with that. Um, the mitigation measures for transportation it's uh specifically MM RP 4.2 to 4.14. Um they're not quantitative and I'm not quite sure how these are measured or we know if the project is is making um what is required as an example. One of them says provide electric vehicle charging infrastructure. Another says employee subsidized or discounted transit program. How do we know how what the infrastructure for charging should be? how many units there should be uh or any requirements surrounding it. And for a program, an employee, you know, subsidized transportation program, do we know? How do we tell if they've met the mark?

How many or what percentage of employees should be subsidized and to what depth? And all of the I think there's about eight different transportation mitigation measures that are just given a name but not quantified. And I'm not sure how we deal with that kind of a question. Yes. In the mitigation monitoring program, I'm looking for a and Anna, can you do you I was looking in the MMRP page. Yeah, I I'm sorry. Uh Jean Carlo, you might be better to respond to this.

Right. So, in on page 23, right, of the mitigation monitoring program, and I'm not even sure if these are supposed to be on transportation during construction or if it's during the operations of the building after it's complete or what are we doing here?

Um, thank you. Um yeah so in terms of quantification those measures um they're specific uh those measures are drawn from the CAPCOA uh greenhouse gas emissions handbook um which provides a lot more detail and and uh methods uh formulas more or less for quantifying um the anticipated effect that those u measures would have on reducing vehicle miles traveled. Um the way the mitigation is written, it does effectively leave some discretion for the uh city uh staff to kind of go through and uh make those determinations in terms of what to is considered um to the extent feasible at the project. So, the city staff will have to work with the project applicant um going through each one of those measures, identifying that the project applicant is in fact um um implementing those measures to the extent that um that makes sense uh for the site. Um

so when does that happen in the process that the city staff uh I forget what it's tied to, but it would certainly be before certificate of occupancy. It does relate to one of your questions. It does relate to the project operations. Okay. Um,

and it's specifically um more or less trying to target the employee uh employee travel and trying to reduce the amount of single occupant um vehicles traveling to the site in in their own car. Um so there's kind of a um a toolbox per se of of different measures that can be done. Um and the way the measures written it's to the extent feasible. Um the this was one of the um impact areas that requires that the significant overriding considerations. Um the reason it's not quantified in the EIR uh there was some discussion in in the transportation section that explains even if the project was able to implement every single one of those 100% it still wouldn't hit the target necessary to have a no impact finding. So

okay, it can't get into detail beyond um what's there right now. Okay, thank you. That clarifies that. Before you go on on that same question, who pays for that monitoring if it's ongoing? Does the applicant pay for it or do we need to detail that? I believe there is a condition of approval that speaks to the applicant needing to uh that the city would would engage a third party to undertake the review and that that cost would be borne by the applicant. That's correct. Yes.

Yeah. Okay. Uh, thank you. Next one's on terminology. The staff report refers to the project in a couple terms. Sometimes calling it a a warehouse project, sometimes calling it a a distribution center or something else. The EIR, it calls it consistently throughout a fulfillment center. each of the different types of facilities operate differently and would it be appropriate to have uh different conditions? Um, and I appreciate uh director explain to me kind of how we got here or what we're supposed to be planning for, but I think it'd be useful for you to explain that to everybody. Yeah, I think it's a really good point and you know sometimes when we as planners are in the weeds we forget to sort of you know be consistent and clear in and how we're defining land uses. All three are permitted land uses in this area but as you're saying they're all sort of different in terms of how we define them in our code but may be changed used interchangeably elsewhere. So uh for the purposes of what is before you tonight, the environmental review documents have assumed a fulfillment center which is one of the most impactful uses for the purposes of environmental review. So we're airing uh on the side of being conservative for the purposes of SQA analysis u because that's what we need to do. In addition, the applicant has expressed that their intention is to build this project as a fulfillment center. So, uh, I do think that we should be using that language consistently and I apologize for the inconsistency, uh, in talking about warehouse versus logistics center versus fulfillment center, which all have slightly different meanings, but we are looking at a fulfillment center tonight.

Okay. So, we can clean that language up. Okay. Thank you. Um, okay. I want to look at the information we got today on the economic and fiscal impact analysis. Uh I have a couple of questions there. First of all, construction sales tax of 13 million um city share to be determined. Am I right in roughing this out in my head to say, okay, if everything were bought were purchased in the city of Palm Springs, which is not going to happen, but say that everything were purchased here, there would be $13 million worth of sales tax. Actually, that doesn't even make sense because that's on the in that's on the construction spending or on the total construction cost

because the total construction would be labor and materials. So, we may need the uh the applicant during their comments to speak to that number, but from my understanding based on the numbers that were provided to us, yes, that is representative of the sales tax rate on the $140 million. Um, so I think you're right. There are probably portions of that number that would not be that would not necessarily collect sales tax. I'm not a sales tax tax tax expert. So again, I think the applicant can clarify the numbers. But setting that aside for a second,

uh your other assumption is correct. So let's say it's $13 million for the purpose of this conversation. Uh the idea would be that if everything were purchased or procured in the city of Palm Springs, that number would be 100% of that. But of course, in reality, that's probably not how it works. And I think the applicant will have to speak to that in more detail. So we would take in 100% of it, but then we would pass on to the state and the the county the majority of it. We we'd end up with 3 million. We would end up So if that number represents nine and a quarter, we get about a third of that. So

a third of that. So we'd get a third of 13. So we'd get four million. Okay. would that would be best case scenario if everything were purchased here and if the 140 million is really the cost just of the materials not the materials and labor to build the project. Correct. Okay. Um I'm still having a little bit of and you had a useful slide maybe to go back up. Um the 331 million cumulative economic output that had something to do with the fact that for statement overriting considerations or um that the economic, social, technological, legal considerations um associated with the project on which we have no dollar amount somehow add up to a benefit to the community of 331 million. I don't really understand that 331 million or how what that represents. Again, I think that we'll have the applicant speak to it in more detail, but really it's the it's the total economic benefit to Palm Springs or to the the region. I'm not even sure how we're defining the geography of that impact, but it would include um the sales that are generated, the sales tax revenue, the property tax revenue, the additional payroll that would be generated with the 750 permanent jobs and the 285 construction jobs, the payroll taxes that might be generated by that. And then all of the indirect effects of this additional 750 people plus being in the community, coming to the community, spending in the community, going to lunch, buying their

gas, going to the store and buying whatever. Um, effectively, you know, 2 million additional square feet and all of the people and activity that come along with that and what additional economic benefit is being provided as a result of that. I'm sure that there are economists who can speak to this in much more detail uh than I can and will probably have the applicant give much more clarity when they come up, but that's my un my very basic understanding.

Okay. So, is this gross or net? because with some elements of having an additional 750 people or families um in Palm Springs, we end up we the city ends up paying um subsidizing their housing if they don't earn a living wage uh doing things like that. So, is this a net I would suggest this is likely gross, but we can certainly have the applicant speak to that.

All right, I'll have some questions on that. Uh, let's see what else. Okay, I have a question on uh tenative trap map condition number five on page it's on page 13 of the staff report. It indicates that the EIR has determined that uh implementation of mitigation measures will reduce any impacts to less than significant which I don't believe is correct. Um, otherwise we wouldn't have a statement of overriding considerations. Is that just uh an oops or am I misreading that?

I'm sorry, page five of the resolution. Um, no, it's uh admin five TTM condition number five on page 13 of the staff report. Oh. And then it would follow then it would also be on the resolution and the resolution it's the tracked map condition number five.

Uh yes the design of subdivision not likely to cause environmental damage to fish wildlife and other habitats. So we do or do not reduce any impacts to less than significant level. Right? So it says development has a potential to have impacts on the environment. However, the EI has determined that the implementation of the mitigation measures will reduce any impacts to less than significant. That's a result of the proposed tenative map. So I wonder this might be it might just warrant a correction. Okay.

As um meaning the conditions for the TTM are independent from the conditions for the development. Well, that's where my mind was going, but I actually don't want to misspeak on that. So, I think I think

that may need some clarification at some point. Okay. Okay. I believe that's all my questions for now. Most most of my questions will be for the applicant but I have one for the uh consultant and that's um 4.7 greenhouse gas emissions and this is the project shall maintain a minimum of 101 points per counting screening tables and if uh someone is here who can answer my question I'm I'm assuming that the county screening tables include the fact that the project is lead gold. Is that is that how we get to the 101 points? Is it Cal meeting California green standards? What standards has it met to make 101 points? Okay. Um I'm Katherine How with um Gandini Group and I helped with the air quality analysis. Um this the greenhouse gas standards are based on the county of Riverside's climate action plan which has uh basically like a twofold um analysis where first it looks at a significance threshold and because the project did exceed that threshold of the total emissions that then it has to we would have to um the applicant had to fill in the screening tables that are within the county's C um climate action plan. Um and in order to be considered less insignificant, you have to at least in in um you have to at least get um at least 100 points, which the count the project got 101 points. And it has to do with different reduction measures that the applicant um agreed to within the um screening tables.

I understand words like screening tables. What did they meet? What did they do? What are they doing? What's different about this project than the last one we saw that didn't meet this? Uh that's it's you know I'm delighted it's meeting it but I'd like to know why

or how um I I guess maybe a little more generally the the cap checklist um from the county it's it's effectively outlines a whole bunch of um mainly site design related uh uh measures or design features um implementing um you know electric charging stations u for example just a whole bunch of you know again my specialty is traffic so I can't speak to the the details it is outlined in the appendix of the air quality analysis and you can see where the points are added up um and tallied to specific to the specific measures and how those are calculated um those are then incorporated into the building plans um which is the way the mitigation measure is written again that the the final plan checks will ensure that that those um design features are being incorporated into the building. I don't know exactly how that translates into the lead design. I'm sure a lot of those measures overlap. Um but that's it's effectively a lot of the similar measures that you would see on on a leadcertified building.

So it's being leadcertified helps it m get these this number of points and these standards are met when the building is designed. So we are built so we don't have to continuously monitor these items or do we? Um my understanding is most of those measures are specifically related to the building design. So once it's constructed um I think at that point is prior to the to the certificate of occupancy all those measures need to be in place um and city staff can check off that that uh through the monitoring report that that's been uh satisfied.

Okay. Thank you. Uh there being no more questions, uh the public hearing is open. The applicant has 10 minutes.

Evening, Madame Chair, planning commissioners. Name is Paul Lubet. I'm with First Industrial. We're the owners and developers of the project. We're happy to be here. We want to thank uh city staff for getting us here. It's been a good process so far, especially Chris and Edward and Glenn, Rick, and uh even BBK. Um and the consultants and subconultants that helped with the EIR. Uh the project is was talked about is in the right place. It's in the red zone, red box up north of the freeway. Uh we don't have any sensitive receptors. I know we're not subject to AB98, but we did look at that as well. Uh, we've designed the site with plenty of room. You know, we're a public REIT. This is what we do for a living. We own industrial projects long term. So, we know some of the issues that you face. So, we've designed with plenty of room for truck ingress, stacking, and parking. We've designed it so that the the trucks and the autos don't coingle in the driveways for safety reasons. We're using colors as you can see. Well, you couldn't see that well in the renderings, but that blend into the desert scape. And we did some profiles to make sure that we're not blocking any mountain views, ridge lines. It's really a false flat out there. It's really amazing how quickly things drop and how those buildings won't be that visible and they don't stick up because of the grading that we have to do. Uh we're well below the height limitations in that area as well. Um, we're looking at doing indoor, well, we have designed indoor and outdoor amenities for the workers, indoor bike lockers, showers, uh, and amenities because you can't use the outdoor amenities a lot. So, we'll have indoor amenities. Um, we are going to be, to your point, contributing to a lot of traffic improvements. Um, we're going to be doing and paying

our fair share along with, you know, there's three three other developments going on. There's the Snyder project in Palm Springs and their shop off in Amazon in Desert Hot Springs. When we looked at the cumulative projects, all of us are putting traffic on there. So, some of the traffic improvements we're sharing like 19th Street, we're modifying that to its full ultimate width. We're going to share in the Garnet off-ramp in the refasing and striping to get additional traffic movements down there. Along with on our uh project, we're going to be widening Indian Canyon to its full width with all the improvements. We're going to be signalizing the Noble Kochin uh entrance, and that's where our trucks will be coming in. Uh we're going to be constructing Noble Drive to Indigo, Indigo to 18th, and then the half width of Indigo with all the improvements. So, quite a bit of work to make sure that we're doing what we can to help mitigate traffic. And then on 19th we're going to be doing the frontage there as well to its full ultimate width. I mean you're probably asking why another warehouse and you know people have been saying that but you know in the last four years 31,000 retailers have closed the warehouse fulfillment distribution whatever we want to call it become the retailers. You looked at the desert um uh community what's the um the new community college it's being built on an old mall site. Malls are going away. Is there retail? Yes, especially out here because you're tourism industry, but it's a lot of food service and tourism retail. Um, you know, every day we're hearing about more retailers going out of business and we're a consumer-driven society. We keep buying product has to go somewhere and we're helping to hopefully give um a place for those products to go out here in Palm Springs. you know, the with the growing tourism and the growing um convention center, they need a place to

get their goods and services. So, we're hoping that's where they'll be getting it. Um also, in the summer, you know, I sat here and listened about the the rental assistance program. We're hoping that they'll be able to provide some good jobs, part-time jobs in the summer to help fill that gap as well. and that we're hoping that, you know, that will help as and the um the building we're going to go for lead gold. Uh some of it's hard to hit because there are no public transportation uh out there in that area, but we're going to go for it. And we're also a uh gold status uh by the USGBC with the green lease leaders. So, you know, we are holders. We're caring about the green. And uh oh also another thought being a re we cannot deal in the cannabis business. So there will be no cannabis related businesses at all on our projects. Just want to make that clear. And we will be using uh union labor. We have signed PLA's with Leona Carpenters and the pipe fitters. And I think some of our brothers are here tonight to support the project. Thank you for sitting here so long. Um, we've also signed environmental agreements uh with advocates for the environment and the Sierra Club. And to your point on uh the solar, we've made agreements to uh put maximum amount of solar array possible on our buildings. Uh we talked about the sales generation, sale tax generation, and uh during construction, yes, that's on the construction items that will be put into the building. And uh we're going to work with our contractor to make sure that we can do all to get as much of that into Palm Springs as possible. And the construction payroll also will be between 47 and $55 million during construction. And as we talked about, the ongoing sales tax revenue will help fund services like rental assistance, the convention upgrade, just to name a

couple. And um the sales tax is really generated depending on who uses the who takes the building. This will be a speculative building, but in most cases, especially buildings of this size, there will be components in it. We are looking at an RFP right now for the building. And this specific user does actually have Amazon offices inside their warehouse so they can come and get goods and services. And a lot of those sales, as you know, are taxable. And Amazon fulfillment centers generate an enormous amount. We were conservative in our projections. Uh if we did something like that, it would be amazing, but we'd need to find a lot more parking. We'd probably have to eliminate building number two. Um but as we talked about, the um project fits into the zone. We meet or exceed all the development standards. Uh we don't need any variances and uh as we talked about, there's a robust EIR. Um and we have our team here to answer any questions. I've got Mike Goodwin, our head of construction, our architect, civil engineer. The city has a SQA team. Um, we've reviewed and approved the city uh conditions of approval and we hope for a positive vote. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh, if there members of the public who wish to speak, is anybody submitted? Yes, we'll start with Zach Straers, followed by John Sicily. All right. Good to be here this evening. Thank you. Um always pleased and grateful for how thorough the planning commission is uh out here in Palm Springs. You've done a great job. U Zach Straw is Care California. So, there are a couple reasons that stand out why we support this project. Uh, one of which is because they did a thorough job reaching out to the community, right? So, you're going to see that labor's in support tonight, but uh, one of the things that Care looks at specifically is on a project by project base, does the project make sense? Is a community pleased? And so, one of the big numbers outstanding is $331 million. And so when you're looking at that, obviously that's cumulative and that takes a lot of things into account, but we're talking about projects that build uh infrastructure, which in Palm Springs is incredibly important. Uh it's very hard for towns uh of this scope to be able to inject that level of infrastructure development independently on their own. So this is generational impact. And not only that, but when you're looking at two different levels uh two scopes of uh labor impact, you have the construction jobs. They did a fabulous job reaching out to multiple trades, which is a big part of the reason why Care is here tonight. And then the permanent impact, you know, so you're talking about um footprint, you know, of usable space of close to 2 million square ft. So, we could go on. Lead gold is important. Again, uh infrastructure development is important, but they did their due diligence. So we tip our hat to them this evening. Care California once again uh overwhelmingly in favor. Thanks and

God bless you. John Sicily followed by Rob Ramos. Brother John had a leave a little early but uh my name is Robert Ramos and I am with the iron workers of local 416. proud member for over 32 years already. You know, I'll just like to start off projects like this, especially this day and age will help out a lot of our members, not only our journeymen, but our apprentices who are looking to pick up that skilled and trained labor, right? The developer has did done his job and also going out and hiring local. As a union member, we have members all over Palm Springs in the surrounding areas. this would be great for them. So, so they don't have to travel from here to LA. It's a it's a drive, right? Projects like this keeps us home and not only that, it'll it will boost the local economy, right? So, that's all I got and I hope for your yes vote tonight. Thank you.

We'll go to Tamara Diamond followed by Judy Deerek. Hello, I'm Tamara Diamond and thank you developers for keeping the environment in mind. Um, and good evening belatedly to Palm Springs Planning Commission members. I grew up in Palm Springs and want to address large-scale warehouse development, an issue that has been weighing heavily on the hearts of many local residents. Palm Springs sits in one of the most biologically diverse deserts in the world. Our valley's unique ecosystem is both a source of pride and a vital part of our economy. This diversity defines us and brings visitors from across the globe. The Kawia Indians who have thrived here for thousands of years taught us invaluable lessons about stewardship and adaptation. They lived in harmony with the land, ensuring its health for future generations. But our current trajectory, marked by unchecked development of large warehouses, threatens to destroy the very environment we are entrusted to protect. The expansion of millions of square feet of warehouses in Riverside County, including Desert Hot Springs and potentially Palm Springs, is devastating. The proposed project's census tract is highly burdened with pollution, ranking 91st percentile for ozone and 60th percentile for traffic burden which are attributed to heavy truck activity in the area. This can cause lung damage, cancer, premature births and more. Developing this project will increase these effects on the diver diverse community who live and work in the area.

So, are we prioritizing short-term profits over the long-term health of our community, environment, and economy? It is time to change course. We need to preserve the quality of life for our residents and protect our desert ecosystem for future generations. Thank you. Judy Deerek, followed by Sergio Seaha.

Good evening, Planning Commission. Judy Dearrack. I'm presenting for Advocates for Better Community Development. It's late. I'm very tired, but worse. This is going to be a difficult presentation for me. I've been working on warehousing operations for my clients for about two years now. And I'm highly connected to the communities of color and the lowincome communities that have been disproportionately affected by what we're doing. And the one thing I can guarantee you is that the city of Palm Springs with upper income Caucasian people do not allow the type of development that's occurring on the freeway. It's not where we live. It's not what we ingest. It's not the risk level that we decide to live at because we're privileged and we're wealthy. And now we're talking about $330 million of more profit coming back to us. But I want to talk tonight about who is not represented here tonight even in the environmental impact report and that is a community of people 91 percentile in the census track for ozone which is cancer and cardio 60% for traffic burden we don't live under that we shifted it north of the freeway the same way we shifted section 14 and dispossessed those people made a $30 million settlement and we're essentially doing the same thing again 40 years later 60 percentile for cardiovascular 50 percentile for asthma. Who are these people? Are they three or 400? We don't even know the count but we do know 50% of the census area you're talking about does not speak English and that's why

they're not here tonight. 95% of them live below the poverty level and that's why they're not here tonight defending themselves against what we're doing. 45% of them are Hispanic. 75% are over the age of 25 with no high school diploma. So they don't have health care. And let me guarantee you they do not have the money to move from where they are. So, they're going to sit there and they're going to eat our smog and they're going to take the risk factor that we have uh what do you call it? Discarded for our own lives that we have imposed upon them. If you hear my anger tonight, it's because I've spent months interacting with that community. two years interacting with them, especially in the last year under the national administration that has devastated social equity, inclusion, and diversity across the United States. I am begging you to listen. I am begging you to go back. Thank you very much.

Sergio Seaha followed by Frank Tyson. Hello, good evening staff members planning committee. My name is Sergio Sea. I'm here I'm here on behalf of the iron workers local 433 as a journeyman to express my support and project and ask for your support well for yes vote for today. Building a project such as this one creates jobs, builds stronger, better a community for from day one. The developer has committed to local hiring and this will put hundreds of men and women just like me to work earning fair wages and safeguarding our children's and families futures. Yes, vote for today. Show us that and all pawn springs area take care of positive development and stronger future for everyone. Show your support for Bo for this. Thank you for your time. Thank you.

Frank Tyson has left. So our next speaker is Fred Noble. Madame Chair, Madame Vice Chair, members of the commission. Um, there was a US senator named Daniel Patrick Moyahan and he said, "Everybody's entitled to their opinion, but they're not entitled to their facts. Facts are facts." As to the area north of the freeway, nobody lives there. There is no resident of the city of Palm Springs north of the freeway. To the east, very scattered, less than 20 or 30 people for 10 miles. That's the population we're talking about in this general area. As to wildlife, this area has been I am a neighbor here and property surrounding the these parcels. U they were studied in the multiecies habitat plan. They're found to not have endangered species and they were not included in the reserves. Uh uh the properties have been studied over and over again when we developed wind farms there and we have never found an endangered species in that area and that's because of the high winds and the even a rodent knows to go somewhere else. The u as to trucks at the moment there are no trucks up there except trucks that go up Indian Avenue. So it's a little premature to talk about poisoning by trucks as a fact of complete. Um as to the underprivileged 700 jobs mostly entry level is a pretty good

start for the underprivileged in my view. What you really have here is a quality development by a highly experienced developer, highly well financed that's built projects for years that has uh checked all the boxes, more boxes than I would have checked, frankly. Leads, gold. It cost a fortune to do leads, gold, and you only gain a few points in efficiency. Uh staff has evaluated it very thoroughly. EIR has been done with great skill. Uh and what you have available here is an economic engine uh that will produce great wealth to the government and to the people as to the construction sales tax. There are methods whereby that tax can be invested in the city. The the taxes when the contractors pay for goods for concrete and steel. We did that when the Sentinel Power Plant was built North Palm Springs and the $50 million of sales tax in that transaction were directed to the county of Riverside. That project being built in the county of Riverside 100 yards. [Music] If anyone else in the audience would like to speak, I have no other We have no other speakers signed up or online.

If the applicant would come back up, you you of course have time for rebuttal first and then we'd like to ask you questions. I'm ready for questions. Uh do you want to start? We'll go in this direction this time and then come back to me.

Um, we heard a couple of speakers here tonight who are very concerned about environment and uh, social justice, environmental justice. You mentioned when you were speaking an agreement with I think you said environmental groups and I know you specifically said the city or a club. What kind I I'm surprised they're not here. What kind of agreements do you have with them? They re really just deal with our uh sustainable construction methods and solar installation on the projects. Um SQUA and our discussions with them did not get into equity and inclusion. That's not part of SQA. So the agreement

so so you agreed to do certain things in your construction as far as sustainability or maybe even in your operations and they agreed to what they they wanted to make sure that they had input on how the project was built and operated. Um and so instead through the SQL process we negotiated with them so that they uh were comfortable with the mitigations and with their agreements so they didn't challenge the project. So they agreed not to challenge the project. Right. If I may add that part of that agreement include Paul if I could.

Yes please. uh includes um the solar that is on the roof and um the non- idling of the vehicles, the forklifts being electrified. Also, you're paying into a carbon credit, a fee, you're paying a fee for a study that's being done by CAG. I don't know the exact amount of that what that money is, but that what you're paying, but that's part of those agreements. So, those are the type of things that the Sierra Club agrees to.

Let me just ask a question. They also do they also require the electrical plugs at at every docking station? Well, yes. That's kind of when they stop idling and you know your operation, they can plug in to run their air conditioning and yeah, since this won't be refrigerated, we don't have the refrigerated trucks, so they won't be plugged in, but we will have the ability to uh charge the trucks, charge the cars in the parking lot, and do the solar on the roof.

Okay. Um I think it was you or another one of the speakers indicated or referred to the $331 million that we're seeing. Um oh and it says here a cumulative economic output is cumulative over a period of time and what is it? Is it a 20 year? Is it a one year? Is it a lifetime? You know what what we used is a conservative. This came off of a an Andrew Chang who's a fiscal impact analysis um guru. Uh we got some of his modeling and some of his assumptions on the cumulative effects on an industry standard for this type of building. Again, being speculative, we're sort of guesstimating what we think the impact will be. And this is conservative to a lot of what Chris said. a lot of the consumer spending that's generated from it and the people that rent in the area, the new employment, the new houses, people will be spending in that area. Just like you do with a convention center, you get a convention business in there and you sort of project what sort of impact that convention is going to have on the surrounding areas. And it's a similar similar discussion here.

And over what period of time? 10 years. I'm sorry. 10 years. 10 years. Okay. um you are not the operator of the facility. You've got a tenant or somebody that's going to come in and be operating it. Is it fair to if we're looking at numbers, is it fair to speculate uh that they will pay industry standard wages for the type of logistics work being done?

Yes. I I think right now because it's such a popular industry right now and it is so competitive that yes the you're seeing competitive wages being paid. You're even seeing in some of the areas now they're conditioning the warehouse spaces because they need to provide amenities for their workers to try to attract them and keep them. So I think you're seeing the high tide rising all boats out there right now. Okay. And you said it was uh 47 to 55 47 to 55 million construction payroll. Correct. Over is this a two-year construction? Approximately two years. Two two years.

Um, okay. Let me see if I No, that's all I have. Thank you. No questions. Go ahead.

Good evening. Um, to your knowledge as to the equity and social impact, um, I'm sorry, as to the equity and social inclusion, is there significant amounts of advancement from entry level to leadership in your business model or is someone else? We just rent we rent the buildings out and it's up to the individual tenant. And and one reason why we're building speculatively is that for some reason I came from the retail side and I was actually the director of real estate at Ralphson. I built the Sunrise and Raone store when I was there years ago. Um I got out of retail when COVID happened because everything started shifting to the industrial. And what happens in industrial unlike retail we plan our stores two, three, four years out in advance. industrial, the logistics, they'll get a big contract, they'll something will happen and they will only negotiate on a building that is completed. It they won't even negotiate on a building that's started construction because they don't know if it's going to finish construction. So hopefully I'm answering your question, but yeah, we we have to build speculatively, so we don't know who will be in there, so we can't answer some of those questions.

Okay. Um, on following that, is there somebody here that could possibly answer that with some future assumptions or I think maybe Anna who's on since she does most of the SQL work can talk about if there is any work being done in that because as far as I know and I'm not an expert on that is that that's just not studied in the SQL process.

I see. Okay. Is that something we can ask Anna? Anna, I don't know that you would really have an answer to that. I don't know that there's any analysis done in SQA that looks at sort of the progression of people's careers up from entry level on. Do you have any insight on that?

Um, no, because that is not a SQA issue. That would need a totally separate fiscal impact analysis for that. Uh, SQA does not look at economic impacts in that aspect. So it's a difficult question to answer but I think it's a good question to ask you know as we're thinking about and some of the questions that have come up in different ways you know how do we assume the true economic uh output of this uh and I think we're making certain assumptions about what those 750 jobs will be and you know I I don't know that we know enough without knowing the operator about how that job growth or income growth will happen over time. So, uh, you're asking good questions that I don't think we have the answers to knowing that this is a spec building and we don't know who the tenant is and we can't say, you know, true,

Amazon, you're coming in, what what do you do for your employees to help them progress and have wage growth? Uh, we would need to have that conversation with the operator. What we could probably do um is look at some of that data and get some of it back to the planning commission at a future date just generally uh to inform I think our zoning code update conversations because one of the things we'll be looking at is we have the red box area that we showed on an earlier slide which is the area that these large fulfillment and logistic centers are limited to. One of the conversations we're having through the code update is do those rules work and what do we need to do and looking forward longer term in terms of uh amending those rules potentially and as part of that conversation probably uh getting more information on some of these questions would help you all when that comes before you.

Thank you Christopher. One more uh follow-up question. Um I'm not sure if you can speak to it now. You did mention part-time employment. Uh I'm not sure if that was spoken out of turn or if that's the intention of uh a facility of the sort is primarily part-time work. No, they're part-time and full-time and it's seasonal as well, but I think fortunately or unfortunately they're they have a good season when you have a slower season. So because you're starting to ramp up for the holidays. Thank you, Commissioner Rodman.

Yeah. Uh I'm not all that familiar with uh distribution centers and how they operate and since you don't it's speculative and you don't have a tenant. Can you uh explain to me the different possible scenarios of who might move in there and how they would generate income or benefit for the city. I think how I can generalize is you have a big box there. Most big boxes are filled with products that people are shipping somewhere. The way you will get revenue above just the building operations is that most of the larger buildings now are doing fulfillment to some extent, some nature. Like I talked about the one RFP that we're trying to get on this building where they'll even have an Amazon representative in the building just to pick up their goods that they ship to their warehouse. Depending on on who goes in there, they will then that's why we've developed four little pods on each corner of the building. So there can be different offices for different users and the building can also be demised which we're finding out million square foot buildings normally don't get demised. Um that's actually the lowest vacancy rate of any building industrial building in Southern California right now is the million square foot plus buildings right now. It's hard to find land to to accommodate that. So again the operators most of them are producing taxable sales out of the space. So, take the scenario where it's uh someone's you're getting goods in and they're loading another truck to take it to Amazon or somebody else. There's no sales tax revenue from that

when they're just transferring and and transferring. No, but a lot of them they're if they're collecting the orders in the building. Yeah. And they're shipping that order out, then there's a taxable event. If it's going to the consumer, it's going to the consumer regardless of where that consumer is located. Yes.

Okay. Um All right. And and there has been some horror stories I've heard along the 60 I think it's the 60 uh where they've built some of these distribution centers and they've gone vacant. There's nobody there's no tenants for them. is and I see I hear you saying that there's the market is building up and it there's demand for it, but what what guarantees do we have that you're going to actually be able to fill two million square feet of of space? I can't give you any guarantees, but what I can tell you anecdotally is that along the 60 freeway, you have the world uh trade center that uh is being built by Ido right now and two uh Sketchers is building a brand new 2 million square foot building um on a build a suit and the the larger buildings do v buildings go vacant? Yes. But the larger ones seem to be leasing up. There's a Sketchers building you'll see that's vacant that's in banning. Well, Sketchers thought they were in the uh foreign trade zone. They were not. So they couldn't operate the way they want to in that building. Then they tried to subleasase it, but it's on a such a short term. Nobody else will take a million square foot building on a short term. Most of the million square foot users want to take a building on a longer term.

Okay. Hopefully I've answered your question.

Uh, okay. Thank you, Commissioner Mororrow. Happened here. Okay. Okay. I have a I have a couple of questions. One is your construction spending the $140 million, how what portion of that is labor and what portion is materials? Uh guesstimate. Yeah, I was going to say we're probably on on that, you know, we said the construction payroll will be about $40 million. So

So about a hundred million. Okay. and um jobs you projected or someone projected 750 jobs. Where did that number come from? Is that from your experience of the numbers of people that are in the warehouses you lease up? That's correct. Yeah, we're using industry averages and we're using, you know, pretty conservative averages, but we wanted to make sure that we mitigated for that amount of traffic in the area. So, um, we think that that's a good number. It's industry standards again because we're we're assuming the type of person that'll be there and that we're doing our best job to give you the right number.

And then you mentioned um building out the Garnet off-ramp and I think part of Indian Canyon. Is somebody else requiring you to do that? I think our staff report said 19th Street and some of the adjacent streets, but are you do you have other requirements? not from other jurisdictions, just from our our staff report and our engineering conditions. Um, we're doing we're sharing with uh Snyder Shop off and Amazon the 19th Street intersection. Uh, we're doing our own 19th Street frontage 100%. We're doing all of our internal streets 100% ourselves. We're doing 100% of the half width. The only ones we're sharing are the 19th Street intersection at Indian Canyon, all four legs. and then the Garnet off-ramp to uh refase and give an additional through lift.

And on a really small note in this big project, the um the trees you have in your plan pretty much don't survive in the desert. the sumac never uh hasn't none of them are thriving and they're all dying off and no one wants a shoestring acacia for any kind of shade. So I'm are you open to changing some of the plantings that you

we'll be going back to DRC and going over the landscape plan with them and our architect and landscape architect to make sure that we don't want anything dying either because that's just a cost to us because we're going to be a long-term holder maintainer of the property. We don't want that either. So just uh and the pelarities have had a hard time. They're they're um impacted right now. So just looking at that, I just hope that you want it's hard to have plants thrive out there. It's really a struggle and I would love to see you have some thrive, but I think you've got to choose species that have got a chance.

Very much appreciate that. And then my last question is um you indicated that the you think the sales tax will be somewhere around $13 million uh and that'll be paid on the construction materials. Is that correct? That's correct. So, I want to know if you and your company will assure the city that you'll use your best efforts to be sure that the jurisdiction that that gets the sales tax is Palm Springs. Yes, we would like that as well. So, you you will use your best efforts and will you write a letter to the city to that impact that effect?

Yes.

Thank you. Uh that's my last question. I will make a comment which is I think it's a very good site plan as I looked at it. Um and thank you and with that any other questions of the applicants any followup? Um this is before the commission. Uh I think we Let's Let me just say I think we're looking at approval. Are we looking at approval? Is there anyone who's not looking at approval on this? Um, so I think we want we want comments and conditions. Um, and I think the longest list of potential conditions uh came from my vice chair. So possibly she could start off. I'd like to start with comments. Nobody wants this project. You don't want to live next to it

completely. You don't want to live next to it. You don't want it in your backyard. You don't want it in your community. You don't want to look at it. But you want your Amazon delivered the next day.

You don't want what it does to our environment. Everybody acknowledges what it does to the environment. you don't want it done and what it does to the traffic. SQL makes a provision that you can adopt a statement of overriding considerations so that this project that you really don't want to live with if it's special enough in certain ways, you can go ahead and improve even though it's not going to do good things for the environment. You can approve it for special economic considerations or for legal, social or technological reasons. In our case, as I think in all of them, it's the special economic considerations. And that's honestly the reason why we're looking at it. Palm Springs needs money. We need to renovate our convention center. We need to expand our airport. We need to have them build a new fire station. We need more pickle ball courts. We need to update our library. We're not sure on a day-to-day basis if we're going to be able to open the pool every morning or if we're going to be able to turn on the lights for the vendors at Villagefest because frankly, our systems are old and failing and we need the money. So for me it becomes the question really becomes does this project spin off enough money to help us. I'm setting aside the 750 jobs because when you take a look at the numbers the average in California as of uh last month the average wage for workers in fulfillment centers is $2510 an hour. By

the time you take out taxes, look at what their take-home income is and allocate 30% of it to be able to go for your housing utilities, you come up with $915 a month, that is not enough to live in Palm Springs. So what happens then is it turns around and Palm Springs or other governmental agencies need to provide subsidies to be able to have these workers live in our city or even in the Coachella Valley. There just plain isn't the housing at that market price or at the price that these workers will be able to afford to support them. We like to say that we're going to get $331 million over 10 years because of all the economic development that's going to be stimulated by these folks who really don't have spending money. So, I'm going pretty much on a wing and a prayer that this really the money is going to materialize because the numbers that have been put before us, I don't necessarily think speak the full picture. However, there are certain things that are that I don't disagree with and that is the fact that we will get property tax. We will get sales tax from the shopping that they do. when I don't believe that we're getting $13 million to Palm Springs for sales tax on the construction goods because since the beginning of this this meeting it's dropped down to oh there's only $100 million worth of taxable sales which would mean that we could get up to 9 or 10 million except that only three cents on the dollar actually comes to Palm Springs the rest of it

goes to the county and to the However, um the $331 million of benefit over 10 years is appealing in this economic climate and in the financial condition that the city finds itself in. So, uh, with that being said, I don't personally want this kind of development in my backyard. The women who spoke on that were absolutely right. I live downtown. It's not in my neighborhood, which makes it easier to tolerate. That being said, had Palm Springs this kind of development 30 years ago when I moved here, I don't think I'd have would have move chosen to move to Palm Springs. Um, I had somebody stop me at the pool the other day and say, "I don't want to live in Marino Valley." And I I get that. That being said, we need it. I am going to vote for it. Um, as far as Sorry about that, chairman. You gave me the opportunity, but then we need to talk about

comments. I think we need to throw them out. Exactly. We need to talk about uh conditions before we get to conditions because we just had a speech. If there are other speeches, I'd rather get the speeches. I'll be very quiet now.

Are there other speeches? No. Okay, then we're back to conditions. I, you know, I agree with Lori. Um, it's not a project that I want. Um I'm highly suspect of the economic benefit to the city and um I just I other than the sea the property tax the rest of the numbers are very challengeable to me and um and then the long-term maintenance of the roads um which I don't think are going to be built to a standard that will withhold withstand the long-term heavy usage of these trucks going in and out. Uh that's that's going to cost the city money. Um and um yeah, I just I I I I just don't see other than the property tax, I just don't the 750 jobs, they're not going to be living in Palm Springs. They'll be in DHS. They'll be in Thermal. They'll be somewhere else in the valley, I think. Um I I just I just I'm having a real hard time with the economic benefit. So that's my speech. Okay, we're and so I um I'm going to vote for this project. Uh and I I think I'm voting for it because of the economic benefit. I'm not as suspicious. I mean, if we get if we get a fulfillment center, we get dollars. Uh and if we don't get a fulfillment center, maybe we get one later because a large project. Uh but we've got the possibility of getting those dollars and um the permanent jobs. We have people in in hospitality who can't work in the summer. There there aren't jobs for

them. And having something that tides them over is important. Even if it's not the best job in the world, it's still a job. So those things matter. I think it's good to have more industry than one industry in this town. I would prefer that we had uh you know some kind of high techch campus that was throw you know that was what Cambridge used to be was throwing off um multi-million dollar businesses every day. But we don't have that. So we're adding we're adding an industry. We're adding it in a discrete area of the city. Um, and yes, I wouldn't want to live next to it, but it's a very discreet area of the city and we're not getting a huge number of them. And I have seen in person that when we've objected to things, they've gone next door and we get the exact same impact, but we don't get the um we don't get the property tax, we don't get the sales tax, and if it's a fil fulfillment center, we don't get the fulfillment center taxes. And I would rather have enough money that we can build a new library. um of and a new swim center, which I don't use, but I think it's really important. It's really important to have a new swim center. Um

yeah, and as many fire stations as we can build. And honestly, I'd like to throw a few dollars into the employee retirement funds, too, because I think it's important that we keep our employees, our good employees happy. Uh so, I'm going to vote for this. I I have some conditions. Uh they're not huge, but um there was some language that needed to be fixed up. Oh, and the other thing is it's it is the first time we've had somebody going for lead gold. I used to finance buildings all over the state that were affordable housing and people went out for lead silver and lead gold and we've never seen it here. and having somebody build an environmentally more sensitive building I think is important. Um, and I'm glad that it meets the it we don't have greenhouse gases although we have tra huge traffic I mean I'm not happy about the traffic impacts. So the first condition I had which is a small one. We got a letter on PLN number seven which was renewable energy and we got asked by the former director of uh our sustain our desert energy company to rewrite this provision and it says subject to the compliance with the settlement agreement and release if rooftop solar is not expected to meet the facility's energy demands the applicant and all tenants in the building shall endeavor ever to use 100% carbonf free power via Desert Community Energy or an electric provider registered with California Public Utilities Commission to satisfy the excess power requirements for projects and help reduce any impacts. A determination on the feasibility and applicability of this requirement shall

be made by the director of planning services in consultation with the office of sustainability and coordination with the applicant and tenants. And it's just it's a rewrite and an improvement on the PLN7 that's currently in our um and if you want to read the one that oh just to elaborate on that just because that was a lot. uh it's it's really as it was originally written was very limited to DCE and I think there was a concern that there are other uh carbon neutral energy products out there in other uh state uh affiliated uh or uh licensed uh providers. So expanding that and also extending it not just to the property owner or developer but the tenants.

Right. And then most importantly since we know this will be a leased building. So, uh, the substitution for that is one of the one of the items. I think there was a clarification on one of the findings. I have Yeah, a couple of those. Uh, let's see. on TTM condition number five. Uh staff is going to clarify the wording and which seems to indicate that the everything will be mitigated to less than significant. I what I think that we need to say is in that last section is uh that implementation and mitig mitigation measures will reduce most impacts to less than significant instead of all. Okay.

And then comma or have been we can work on this language uh or have been overwritten through overwritten through the statement of overriding considerations. Yes. And then carry on. That that would sound right. And then also I think on uh conditions four and five uh excuse me findings uh number four and number five about the proposed height and massing being consistent with adjacent development and about the setbacks being consistent with adjacent development staff will

yeah I think for that what I would recommend at the end of four is additionally the height and massing are consistent with the E1M2 uh uh development standards for this area as well as prior approved development on adjacent parcels. Okay. It's kind of hard because there's nothing out there to but it is consistent with the prior approval. So I think we can thread the needle that way and I would add similar language to the end of five. Okay, that works for me. There's also a condition on payment for the monitoring and it's for the monitoring during construction and to the extent there's monitoring ongoing the applicant or the the owner will pay for um third party

a third party monitoring it's in there for the ongoing okay

uh the other thing is as we make the motion we are certifying the final Environmental impact report. Adopting a statement of overriding conditions, adopting a mitigation monitoring and reporting program and approving the tenative parcel map and the major development permit subject conditions. So, a motion would have to include all of those. Are there other conditions? Uh I have one just as I would very much like the um architectural review committee to review the landscape plan and particularly the tree choices uh

to to trees that have a chance of thriving in that environment. Are there other Commissioner Rottman? Uh yeah, I noticed um uh in their package they're calling out all the site lighting to be 5,000 Kelvin and but in the AES one which was in the AATA's erata and revision section it there's a thing that says calls out the lighting to be two 3,000 Kelvin or less. So just want to make sure that that's addressed. Um, and then, um,

I'm sorry, can I just get clarification on that? So, we would want it to be at 3,000 or less. Well, that's it. Um, yes, if if they if they can make it work. Yeah, that would be preferable. Okay, we can work.

5,000 is really horrible. Um, and then I didn't see a lot of information about the articulation of the site walls. So, I'd like ARC to look at that. Um, there was no detail on that. And, um, and then Yeah. Anything else? Do we have a P? I I'm willing to make the motion. Do we have a second? I will second.

Will you call the role? Any comments? Will you call the role? Chair Worerick? Yes. Vice Chair Alan? Yes. Commissioner Baker? Yes. Commissioner Miller? Yes. Commissioner Rottman? No. And Commissioner Morell? Yes. the motion. Thank you. Okay, moving right along. This is the longest commission meeting we've had in a while. I I don't know if it counts because we had uh technical difficulties for about an hour in the beginning, but

it was felt like three hours of my life, but yes. Okay. What's for dinner? That's for real. I ate I ate at four o'clock. Oh my goodness. Okay. So, we are at planning commissioner requests reports and comments. I have I have a a comment that is kind of a follow on, but it will be brief. Um, Anita, start the timer

with uh when I was talking about needing to subsidize the housing for uh workforce, I ran up very conservative numbers on what that would cost a year uh to provide subsidies for salaries that only earn low income, in some cases very low. And even if they're just renting a studio to a two-bedroom apartment, it runs from 1.8 million to 6.7 million a year. If they're living, that's when you hope that they don't all live in Palm Springs because that's more money than we have. What this argues for is an inclusionary housing ordinance. Uh we started down that road some time ago and it would have um had a fee for commercial, industrial, and market rate housing projects to help subsidize uh affordable housing. And I would encourage um the policy makers and staff to keep working on that because I think it's somewhere in the pipeline.

Yeah. Maybe just very briefly um we were looking at inclusionary housing which is you know where there's a set aside in residential development or a payment in lie you know you could say a new development 10% of the housing needs to be deed restricted affordable we are also looking at what what vice chair Lane is is referring to is a commercial nexus or linkage fee and so one of the first requirements to do that and consider that is to do a study a nexus study which we completed about two years ago with a consulting team and took to the city council as a study session item. And so what that study needs to do is effectively do the math that vice chair Lan was was was alluding to and say in this particular type of industry you can expect average wages of this uh housing costs are this and what's the sort of delta in between uh and so what is the contribution that would be required uh by that development or that you know developer to subsidize the housing needed to house those workers. And so that study was concluded. We took it as a study session to council. Of course, the fees you can reasonably charge and still make a project feasible are not anywhere close to what the actual cost of housing that people are. So, it's it's a challenge. Um, we got direction from council and then we went into elections and have a new council and haven't really based on their current priorities revisit the conversation. It is something that the code team is looking at uh as part of the zoning code update. So, I hear you. I agree. Uh it's something I would like to pursue and uh appreciate the pitch.

If there's any city in the Coachella Valley that has the political will and courage to do it, it's Palm Springs. So I'm hopeful. It should be Palm Springs. Thank you for the update. The concern is shared by all of us. Other Other comments? Um, directors, planning directors. Oh, planning director's report.

Everyone's checking their watch. So, the only thing that I will say, and this relates uh to the Sherwin Williams decision, as well as the In-N-Out decision, is um we've become aware of an oddity um in the zoning code and the municipal code that uh while any member of council can call up for review any decision of a subsidiary body for which they directly appoint the members, so you all uh which they've exercised from time to time, most recently the Starbucks decision. um um uh on Vistuchino uh the the way that the language is worded in the code is that they can only call up for review items for those bodies again that they directly appoint. So what this means is that architectural review committee's decisions are kind of in this no man's land of not being subject to council member review unless appealed with the filing of the full appeal fee. Uh which is odd. I mean, we're effectively tying council's hands to review decisions of a subsidiary body. And I think it's raised concerns among different members in the community, especially based on uh the decision to advance in and out without sort of having a little more certainty around the final architecture and what that process is going to look like and making sure that there are the checks and balances available to council uh and to you all to ensure that that sort of comports to the direction that you had provided and to certainly their vision. Uh so we will be considering um and council requested this at their meeting last night bringing back revisions to the code to address that loophole and uh allowing that callup provision to be applied uh more broadly to the ARC. So just wanted to provide that update which again I think provides uh more checks and balances to the in-n-out discussion that we had recently and I will leave my updates there so everyone can get home.

Okay. And that is the end of your report. So this is the end of our meeting. I'm adjourning until 5:30 Tuesday, September 9th. I wish everybody a happy summer vacation except for those people that are meeting in subcommittees. Good night. Thank you.