Plan & Zoning - Regular Meeting

Hi, welcome everybody to the um November 18th 18th, 2025 meeting of the Orange Planning and Zoning Commission. Uh if if we could introduce ourselves, Tom Toranti, Jenny Bowser, recording secretary, Bonnie, court reporter, Kevin Cornell, Jack Emer, zoning administrator,

and Paul Kaplan, very temporary acting chairman for my friend Azie Pente for tonight. Anyhow, all right. Um, we're going to do review of business uh minutes from October 7, 2025. Actually, I did see I think I did see something on this one. Let me see. Yes. Okay. Uh, anyhow, let me ask for comments first. No, I'll abstain. Okay. Okay. Okay. Mr. Cornell, I had no comments. Really? No comments?

Thank you. Huh. Um, I'm thinking about changing uh October to October on the front page all the way on the top. Oh, there is the there is the egg to see if [snorts] you would find it. See? See? Okay. [laughter] There we go. October. Okay. Uh, anybody have a motion for me? I'd like to make a motion to approve the minutes the October 7th, 2025 uh planning minutes, but wait a minute. We only have two people who could vote. I can I can post. He can vote. He just can't initiate the motion. She wasn't there. All right. Well, we're going to table that puppy. Well, tableing this. Yeah.

All right. Moving on. Hi. Uh, old business, anybody? Yeah. Uh, Jack, could you give us the timeline on the uh referrals coming back for the uh text amendment regarding uh short-term rentals? Uh, I certainly can. We are scheduled to have that public hearing on December 2nd, which is our next scheduled meeting. So, the referrals are all complete. Super. Have we gotten any feedback at all or no?

Uh, we've gotten some feedback um specifically from the Ngatuck Valley Council of Governments. Nothing substantive. I don't I don't have it in front of me right now, but they they did have uh minor comments. Yes. Okay, good. All righty. Uh, no. Okay, moving on. Uh, new business. I hear something. Little bit of whining. No, I not until we read. Oh, okay. Got it. And next, I have a report of our ZEO. Yeah, I think I'm going to go into a lot of a lot of that with my report.

Um, so yes, short-term rental is December 2nd. Um, that will be the opening of the public hearing. Uh, item number two that I have is commissioner training. Uh, I gave everybody a flyer that looks like this. This was a commissioner training opportunity that was sent to me um in Woodbridge for Thursday, December 4th at 6 p.m. at the JCC in Woodbridge. Um, this is being put together, I believe, by um by Woodbridge and a few other uh housing corporations from that general area. Mhm.

This will I think it's an hour. Yeah, an hour session of affordable housing training. So, this is the one hour out of the four that you can get for affordable housing if you do not have it already. Um, I think I also mentioned at previous meetings that SCROG is not going to be doing a new curriculum for this round. So you can still review the uh uh the same videos that they put out two years ago or find other opportunities for training elsewhere. Um but this is a very good opportunity locally in person that we have to go for one out of the four hours. For one out of the four hours. Yes. So if anybody's interested in that, that is your heads up. Got any cost to that?

Um I do not believe so. No. Okay. And you don't even need to register. It says registration is not required but recommended. Yeah. Yeah. They're looking different from bodies. Okay. Um for Kevin, I know you and I were speaking about this. I got more copies of that book that you and I were talking about, what's legally required. Yes. Which is a really great zoning resource book for Connecticut uh commissioners, anybody involved in land use really. So, if anybody's interested in getting a copy of that and and reading through it or just refreshing your memory, I have several copies upstairs in my office now. more than happy to let anybody take one home for a while.

House Bill 8002, I'm sorry, 8002. This is the bill that was passed recently. That was the slightly modified version of what the board talked about with Barbara Shelonberg and Owen Weaver, I think several months ago. Um it's more or less a preliminary review pretty much the same bill that we discussed at that meeting. So there is a lot of land use changes that come along with this. Um I think Owen and I are going to be scheduling a meeting for him to come in on and you know break it down for us and let us know his thoughts.

Um but this big thick booklet here is the summarized version of of that bill. When does this take effect? Uh, a lot of it in uh January 1st of next year. So, a little over a month. Yeah. Um, I'm assuming uh Owen's law firm is breaking this down still. There's a lot of material here, so we'll give them a chance to

condense it and uh come in and talk to us about it. Um, my last item is for the Rise Dispensary. they are going to be coming in for a modifi or looks like they're going to be coming in for a modification of their special permit only regarding their hours. Um, as the initial part of their application where they got their approval, they had modified their own hours to make it more I think digestible for Orange at first to sort of cut down their own hours as digestible as it could have been.

Um, now they are hoping to come in and get their hours changed to the fully allowed hours by regulation. So, our regulations as well as state regulations allow dispensaries to be open uh the same times as uh package stores. So, um selling liquor is Monday through Friday 8:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. Saturday 8:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. Sunday 10:00 a.m. to 6 pm. Those are the hours that the dispensary would be asking to move to, which again are allowed by our uh our regulations, but because their initial special permit was approved at their modified hours, we're asking them to come in for a modification.

What were the modified hours? Their current hours are Monday through Friday 9:00 am to 800 pm. Saturday 9:00 am to 7 pm. Sunday 11 am to 5:00 pm. It's really only one hour on either end that they're that they're looking to do. But again, still wanted everybody to be able to take a look at that. Um I think that's it for my items. If anybody has anything for me.

All right, moving on. Um, so there is a public hearing. That is right. Um, and I guess we'll have to open it and then in light of the fact that Azie and I forgot to mention Jay and I apologize. Jay is otherwise detained tonight. Um, so we'll uh we'll kind of table it until the next meeting.

I think that's what our plan is. We're going to be opening the public hearing tonight. We'll also get into uh we got a comment or a referral from D that was just received the last half hour of today. Um so we will discuss that referral a little bit with who we have here tonight. Uh open we'll open the public hearing, discuss the referral, and then we'll kind of see how everybody feels about what D had to say. Frank and I have had a a few minutes to kind of break it down. Um, but it also give everyone a week to decide, do we want to incorporate their language? Do we want to incorporate a little bit of it? None of it at all. It's purely advisory. Um, is it only contained in this?

It is only in that. Correct. There's only, I think, three items that they really suggested. Frank and I discussed some of them. Um, I don't want to get too far into it before the public hearing. Okay. But yes, we are planning on keeping this open and hopefully scheduling a special meeting next week to actually vote on the POC, but because we only have three voting members here tonight, we said maybe we should wait till we have at least one more. Yeah, I think that makes sense. So, yes, sir. Um, so [clears throat] pretending to be me, I have to change this. Why don't you have Yes. as the nonacting secretary. [laughter]

To appear one time on Wednesday, November 5th didn't happen. And appear one time on Wednesday, November 12th. Wow. That didn't happen either. Yeah. H Okay. What do you mean didn't happen? It it it got um Oh, that's when it was noticed. That was not Yeah. Now give him [laughter]

notice of public meeting. Notice is hereby given that on Tuesday, November 18th, 2025, at 700 p.m. at the Orange Town Hall, 617 Orange Center Road, the Orange Town Planning and Zoning Commission, will conduct a public hearing on the following. The Town Planning and Zoning Commission will hold a public hearing with representatives of BFJ Planning, the town's planning consultant for the plan of conservation and development revision. The purpose of this public hearing is to seek final comments from the TPZC and feedback from the broader Orange community regarding the final draft of the new plan of conservation and development. The draft plan of conservation development can be found on the town's website and reference copies are available in the library and the town clerk's office. Copy of this notice has been filed with the Orangetown Clerk. Additional information is on file with the Orange zoning department dated Orange, Connecticut this 4th day of November 2025.

Not as easy as it looks. [laughter] Well, the thing is it says it's from Paul Kaplan. This I understand. If my name was on here, it would have been perfect. Exactly. I will make that change for the next one. All right. So, um this is with regard to the information that was just given to um uh to both uh Jack and Mr. Fr. uh within the last uh hour or so um from the uh DEP instead of um trying to uh incorporate that into the PC, you know, without any discussion, we'll table it for tonight. I think we'll go into a little bit of I'm all Yeah. of the referral.

Um and then we can kind of have the week to chew it over again. Do we want to incorporate all of it, only some of it, or none of it at all? We do not have to take anything into consideration. and it's purely an advisory document. Um, based on preliminary discussion between Frank and myself, um, it looks like there is kind of a combination of two items that maybe we'll add to one of our pages. And I will let Frank kind of clean this up a little bit, but there was another part of it that we both agreed is really not necessary for our local POC for one of their comments, but I will let Frank kind of take it from here and educate everyone. Mr. fresh.

I mean, just so I I could maybe summarize and you can follow along this letter and then as uh Jack said, you know, if we if you take some additional time just at your leisure and read it, then if we can get together, we were looking at and by the way, I guess we can set the date when when you're ready, but uh we were look actually looking at I think next Monday night. We're hoping to recon if you can because I think the chair Aussie may be back um and could make it. I don't know if that's a possibility, but Kevin and [clears throat] Tom said they would be able to make it as well and I'll be able to make it that way. That'd be great.

So, I think Monday would be the the day. And I give you a chance to read this in detail, but basically the first two pages are simply a letter from DP and it's basically kind of praising document the work you've done

and praising the plan and saying that they think it's a very good plan and basically um the second paragraph says it. First, we would like to commend the town of Orange plan and zoning commission uh and the department for drafting such a comprehensive document, particularly the draft documents focus on low impact development, open space and recommendations for improved management of storm water and so on. So, it's basically a very complimentary letter. Then at the end though they say we have an appendix which if you could consider the three things we have to say in the appendix and the appendix um I mean I I think some of these things I wrote to myself for instance on the very first one in the appendix chapter one vision and goals they'd like us to put in this sentence that's underlined and I think both Jack and I thought we could put in a sentence like this but it doesn't belong in the vision and goals. I think just just to if I could, you all have um you all have the doc the new document. The documents um now dated November.

All the changes that you had wanted in the past are all in the new document. But in our new document, if you turn to page um 90 in the new document, everybody's got it, I think. Um what or I should say just so you know page 89 it starts on page 89 has in it what we're dealing with here is the other um agencies. So we list first the South Central Regional Plan of Conservation and Development on page 89. Then you turn and it's the Connecticut Plan of Conservation and Development by OPM. What we're thinking of is there's a white space here at the bottom on page 90. We could put into that white space um what they've entitled their real comment which is on their coastal management program. We could put in deeps coastal zone management program otherwise known as CAM and just incorporate the language that they would like in the goal here. All this is saying is that municipalities PLCD that's when you're in a CAM uh should have uh recognition of these three things um A B and C and I'm on you know just uh again their appendix first paragraph underlined under vision and goals. It's fine. I think it's uh doesn't commit you to anything. Um I think it's okay statement. Um we Jack and I look contiguous to Long Island.

Oh, by the way, perfect comment. Paul, I can't I I Does any part of Orange Touch? I can't resist the language. Okay, but if you look up the word contiguous Oh, okay. It means ab budding to. So, this is great for Kevin. So, are we a budding to Long Island Sound? I would say no. However, I don't think it's worth um Okay. I don't, by the way, I don't think it's worth. There's a there's a prairie pothole in North Dakota. That's right. A water of the United Correct. A water of the United States. Right. So, it's not worth I don't think it's worth. But that caught Paul

the very thing you just caught caught my eye also and we discussed it and just said look you know u there's a what they explain later is that and I and I think it's worth picking up under the last page coastal management program if you look at their last paragraph underlined so these are the words they would like you know there's 36 Connecticut coastal towns including Orange. You do have it's a very very small part of town that the southwest corner. It's in the thousand foot review area.

Sorry, the southeast corner. Right. Oh, it's in the Yeah. a tiny corner um touching Milford. You go over, you know, past Marshill. Yeah. Uh and then a small portion of the Husatonic between us and Shelton. So very very small areas of orange qualify for a CAM application. 1,00 feet from the Long Island Sound. The Long Island Sound. Yes. The coastal flood zone. Where is that again? I know. I know. Uh so part of it is the the Husatonic um right northwest corner. Uh and then the end of But that's not the Long Island Sound, right? It's not Long Island

South and it's navigable waters. Navigable waters of Long Island South. Uh and then a I think only two or three parcels um Conair Road I want to say. Uh where the old Draone Classic you go down that road small portions at that dead end fall within the thousand foot upland view area. So which is why we had to refer this to to D even though it's

minute. So what we thought just as a suggestion to you fir first this is entirely up to you as Jack said first you don't have to take any of their recommendations at all it's completely voluntary on your part so you can take some you can incorporate all of them we do have a a recom you know and by the way I've only discussed this from five o'clock to yeah this came in about four o'clock and uh so [clears throat] we started reading it over and convincing about it but what I wrote sort between that period. I was wondering if I could combine

just a suggestion to you if if you want to incorporate anything. We were thinking we could have a paragraph at the bottom of page 90 which because there white space there and we can fit it in easily. So the bottom of page 90 after OPM's plan just say DP's coastal management area and then what I wrote this is by the way I didn't have time to get this you this just came in so uh a suggestion to you might be the following while most people may not consider Orange to be a shorefront community I think that's true

um there is a very small part of the south it would be the southoutheastern right southeastern part of the town that is within Connecticut Department of Energy and Environmental Protection deep coastal area management boundary

the CAM some 36 Connecticut coastal towns including Orange have a a described a I'm sorry a designated CAM boundary and then go back and say any municipal POCD with a CAM um boundary should meet the following three criteria and those following three criteria are right here on the front page of their their first comment. A you know they've commented it ABC maybe I should just read those. Uh the first one A is consistent with the municipal coastal program environment environmental requirements. [clears throat] B made with reasonable consideration for restoration and protection of the echo system and habitat of Long Island Sound. And C designed to reduce hypoxia, pathogens, toxic contaminants, and floatable debris in Long Island Sound. doesn't really have a lot of connection directly to you, but it answers their first question and it answers their second with their

most importantly we can fit it into that little white space. That's right. Most importantly, quite frankly, that's [clears throat] true. That's true. [laughter] I'm trying to do something that I can also fit in nicely. You've responded and now I just say one thing for your discussion

that Jack and I both had the same reaction on. I think the next uh one is their second comment though is on chapter 8 infrastructure and we already have identified storm related water quality impairments that they're talking about in the infrastructure chapter. We've already done that. We've identified it. We've comment [cough] we've considered D. We we actually listed DP as the source of our they're mostly streams that are uh in in their words storm water related water quality impairments. We already have it and we don't think there's any need to uh recognize this part of their comments

here and later on in the next paragraph they reference should require the appropriate LI. What are they talking about? low low impact development. Um all all Yeah. Yeah. That's we actually kind of read it I read it in in your voice actually, Kevin. It sort of leaves us open to any development that comes in can point at this section and say, "Oh, well, this isn't as low impact as it could be." And it seemed more no development is low impact. Yeah. So we wanted we suggest this just a suggestion from Paul, you know, from Jack and I

is to not incorporate this one comment from them, but to rather incorporate the other two comments and um All right, leave it at that. So we'll uh we'll table this for right now. I'm going to ask for uh anybody has any um uh comments, but uh in terms of voting, we'll uh we'll take this up. It'll give us a week to digest uh what we're talking about here. And Frank will put together the official of what he wrote down. Yeah. what I wrote down. I'll get you'll be able to circulate that. Yeah, I'll get it circulated to you. And one other thing, if I may, just before you close, is what we'll also do, you've all got a draft resolution um I think in front of you actually.

We need on the last whereas [laughter] this is the resolution for adoption. So, um and you've seen this before. You've seen this before the last whereas I think we need to change it to whereas you know the commission re received comments from deep and the commission revised a section of the plan to acknowledge these comments. If we if we do that, if you do that. Yeah. If you do that, that's just And by the way, as you read their letter, you may decide not to. But if if you do, could we could you let us know

because u you know, we wanted to be as um upfront as we could with what we'd like to do because if you meet next Monday and and and I think everybody can make it. We'll have everything ready for you and then then you'd be in a position, I think, to uh you have read everything. You have discussed it tonight. you'd be in a position to have a motion to Oh, first you need to close the hearing, right? And then you'd have a motion to um adopt and you'd have the resolution in front of you. But as you read it and I'll get this I'll try to get this to Jack if Jackie if not tomorrow, you'll definitely

Tuesday if you you'll definitely have it Thursday. You will have it Thursday morning. Absolutely. [clears throat] So that you can all have this before the weekend. And all it is is going to be is is literally going to be uh three or four sentences one change to the to the resolution. That's what it would be. All right. Um any further discussion you want to have now? Before we move on, should we see if anyone in the public is here for that? Yep. Okay. I'm going to ask for public comment right now. Anyone want to come comment on the the plan of um conservation and development or anything that you've heard? Why don't you come on up? I introduce yourself and come to the podium.

He's a pro by now. [laughter] Okay.

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, members of the board, uh public. Uh my name is Dr. Lawrence Msina, president of the Orange Land Trust, and I have to say, uh, I'm very impressed by all of you, uh, for the meticulous work that you've done along with BFJ. Uh, we're very happy with the, uh, the Land Trust board of directors for the direction that we're going in. Um, I would like to also thank the public for always backing us up and making this the town gem that it is in comparison to other towns and cities in the state of Connecticut. uh land trust has been in existence since 1968 and I've never seen so many positive uh works uh that are being done to improve the environment to keep open space in the town of Orange and um I hope this continues. Um uh we actually at the Land Trust have uh expanded. We have um scholarships that we offer for anyone uh at UNH going into environmental studies. Uh we had our uh we have a number of hikes this past Saturday. We had a uh hike with the goats over at Camp Cedarrest. And you would never think that so many people would turn out. We actually were packed to the rim with people hiking with our goats that came from Washington Depot, Connecticut. So um once again, we're going to continue moving in this direction. We're going to make this town continue to be the town that it should be and it always has been. And again, with your help, the public's help, uh, we're going to reach that goal and, uh, keep Orange as green as we possibly can. Thank you so much for all of your time and your efforts. Thank you.

Thank you. [clears throat] Anybody else want to be heard? Hello, sir. How are you? Good. How are you? All right.

Uh, my name is Brian Cleveland. I'm a local resident here. Um, I just actually wanted to introduce our scout group. We're from Troop 41 in Woodbridge. Um, actually all the guests that are here this evening are actually from Orange, even though our troop meets in Woodbridge. Um, I wanted to at least let you know that we've been learning uh through the merit badge that we're taking right now, citizenship in the community, how local government works and the discourse that we have through public government for the staff, the different committees that we have and the public to be able to weigh in on different uh things that are happening around our communities. So, it's interesting to be able to be here this evening to hear the conversations that you're having. Um, I think for the scouts purposes this evening, um, there's a lot of acronyms that are flying around, so [laughter] it's probably hard for them to understand exactly what it is that you guys are talking about, but talking about the plan of uh, conservation and development, something that I'm familiar with because of what I do as an architect, um, this is a plan for the next 10 years for Orange, right? we're not going to revise this for for a while. And I think while it's not well known, I think to the residents that this plan even exists, it is important to the development of our community. Uh, one thing that I think I would like to actually invite one of our scouts to come up here and just mention because he mentioned it to me the other night at one of our meetings about what he wants to see in the community. And just as a way of putting on public record, I actually want Robbie to come up here. Yeah, you [laughter]

you told me that there's something that you really really would like Orange to do in front of your house. If you could just spell your name, Robbie, when you get up there and give us your address. Uh, I am Robbie Sullivan. R O B Y S U L I V. I'm Boy Scout, resident of Orange. And, uh, I I like to take walks. This is a nice town. I like to walk around our area. We're from Clark, Augusta, and uh like Rassy Hill, that spot right there. And uh my main issue is people are not good drivers, and I don't like to get squished. So, uh sidewalks is what I would really like to see eventually. You and I both. Yeah.

Not easy. Yeah, I get that. Cost money. A lot. Yes. And you have to have the space and the area to do it. Yeah. So, this this board Stop me where I'm wrong, guys. I think over the years we've tried to where we can uh encourage the homeowners and other owners to put in sidewalks, but it's it's a patchwork of uh and certainly not a a nice walking area. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good comment. Thank you. Thank you. [applause] Uh other comments on the uh uh plan of conservation and development.

All right. So at this point I will just throw one other thing just so to have this on the record. Um at our last meeting we did a number of u revisions with uh Frank. I think Owen was here as well. Uh this was a list of those revisions. Just want to let everybody know all of these were incorporated into the final copy. I did check those uh and confirm today. Good. But again, just want to Thank you, Mr. Fresh. Yeah. And it does include your new member. Good. Good. So you what you have here is the it's set to go and if you decide to uh incorporate a comment, we'll put it in on page 90. Okay.

So we'll be ready. We'll send that to to Jack. We'll have revised wording to Jack on Thursday morning and then he can get everything to you. So everything should be ready for Monday uh evening. Good. So we I guess we'll we'll keep the public hearing open. There's no re there's no reason for us to close it at this point in case somebody does want to comment uh on Monday. 100%. But we as of now we are planning on scheduling a special hearing. Bless you. Uh on Monday the what did I say? The 24th. Yes. Yeah. Monday the 24th. to close and vote on the POCD obviously pending any other issues or revisions. Um but that seems to be our path forward.

All right, keeping the uh public hearing open. Is there any other business to transact? There being none, I'm looking for a motion. This is where you usually come in. Mot [clears throat] motion to adjurnn. Anybody going once? Going twice. All right. Right. [clears throat] Like to make a motion to close [laughter] the public. He apparently didn't like the way you moved. No. [laughter] You know, you do it so often. I don't even know what ending the meeting's called. Yeah. [laughter] Uh, you're seconding now. Yes. There's a motion to close the meeting now hearing close the meeting. All right. So, the motion to adjurnn. Motion to adjurnn. Yes. Motion to adjourn.

Everybody second. Okay. All righty. Thank you everyone. [clears throat]