City Council - Regular Meeting

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you much. Roll call, please.

Council Member Norby? Here. Council Member Woods? Here. Council Member McKenzie? Here. Council Member Schwerer is absent. Mayor Mongey?

Here. Thank you much. I have a motion to adopt the agenda, please.

So moved.

So moved.

McKenzie?

Second. Second, Woods. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Thank you very much.

All right, on to the consent agenda. Item A, June 2nd, 2026, workshop and regular meeting minutes. Item B, general claims of $1,522,226.76. Item C, HRA claims of $13,958.29. Item D, EDA claims of $55,776.81. Item E, tobacco sale license renewals for 2026 to 2027. ITEM F, LIQUOR LICENSE RENEWALS FOR 2026 TO 2027. ITEM G, RESOLUTION ACCEPTING DONATIONS FOR MAY OF 2026. ITEM H, NEW APPOINTMENT TO THE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION. ITEM I, APPROVAL OF COMPLETE CURB AND SIDEWALK IMPROVEMENT ON 7TH AVENUE. AND ITEM J, RELOCATION OF FIBER SERVICE FROM COMMUNITY CENTER TO THE PUBLIC WORKS BUILDING. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO POLL ANYTHING AT THIS TIME?

IF NOT, CAN I HAVE A MOTION?

So moved.

Woods? Second?

Second.

McKenzie? All those in favor say aye. Aye.

Thank you very much.

All right. 630. John Schmall. Yes, sir.

Hey, John.

Good evening.

Just a suggestion, a first item. If you see someone in the audience that hasn't been here before, it's obvious that you can pick them out because there's nobody here anyway. And so that one person would be, in addition to myself, and the person happens to be in their mid-80s. You can make a judgment, like was at the last meeting. Why don't you just come out in that 10 minutes after the workshop, before the meeting, and say, do you have something that you might want to say? Because they're not there to tick off an item on their bucket list. They're there for a reason, and this woman was. but they get a better deal because they get more than three minutes like the last time because you gotta straighten it out. The second item is the situation that is it going to happen with the electric bill for the month of June that we get sometime in July and the reduction in the rate for the power adjustment. which I still, you ought to have the newspapers come to this city and do a story on that the rates for electricity across the nation have gone up 6% over a year, but you are reducing an item that you've already paid out because it's a power adjustment and has been paid for, but it was said at that workshop meeting and there hasn't been anything in the newsletter about this. I mean, this is wonderful. Get the newspapers, get the TV stations here to do a story on that you're reducing electric rates to your citizens. It is a story. Thank you. Thank you.

All right. All right, on to city business action items. Four items on the docket for tonight. First one up is a variance request for 2130 Cowern Place. I'll turn that over to Mr. Ken Roberts, our community development director.

Thank you, Brian. Members of the mayor and members of the council, this is a request for variance for the property at 21, where did it go? I don't know. 2130 Coleran Place East. This is a map of the property here. It's almost a one-acre lot on the corner of Coleran and 6th. Coleran's here, and then this is Holloway Town and back. This is the home, if you recall, six weeks ago, two months ago, we had the conditional use permit for the accessory dwelling in it. So it's right next to that. Just for location. These are the existing conditions from their survey. They are proposing to add a 40 by 30 detached garage in this location. And to do that, they're proposing to, I'll go to this one, demolish a smaller attached garage and a smaller detached garage and just have one new detached garage. The ground floor area of the house is 940 square feet and the city code limits the size of detached accessory buildings to a maximum size to the same size as the ground floor area of the home. In this case, that would be 940 square feet. So they're asking for a variance of 252 square feet to build the larger garage than normally would be allowed by code. The applicant with their submittal and their application included these findings. And each one of these is a point for them to try to explain their request. So first, explain how you wish to vary from that. applicable applicable provisions of the ordinance Their answer was we wish to exceed 1,000 square feet ordinance the size limit to 1,200 square feet Is the variance in harmony with the proposed purposes and intent of the ordinance? We believe the variance is in harmony with the purpose and intent of the ordinance given the size and current use of the property and neighboring properties this variance provides an example of proper storage and use of the property and Third point, will the variance adversely affect health, safety, or general welfare of the city? Their answer is the variance will not adversely affect the health, safety, general welfare of the city because it subsequently gives better aesthetic to the locality and presents proper storage use. Does the proposal use the property in a reasonable manner? Their answer, the proposal does use the property in a reasonable manner given the nature of the layout of the existing structures both on and near the property. And the last point, is the variance necessary due to special conditions that are particular to the property? And their answer was, the variance is necessary due to special conditions that are particular to the property given the size of the property in which it is used for. Those are from the applicant. So a little refresh, of course, the variance review criteria in our city code is any variance request needs to be consistent with the comprehensive plan and the zoning ordinance, as we just went through, not adversely affect the health, safety, and welfare. Should be because of special conditions that are particular to the property, and any variance should be the minimum variance necessary to alleviate the practical difficulty. We had a public hearing with the Planning Commission back on June 4th when the applicants came and were able to speak their, present their proposal and answer some questions with the Commission. We had two neighbors get up. They didn't wish to be identified, but they did support the variance request as well. And really what it comes down to is it's a wants versus needs. They want the large garage, 1200 square feet, great. We want people to build garages and put their stuff inside. However, the code says you can go up to 948 square feet. And we didn't find any special conditions or any special reasons in the code preventing them from meeting that 948 square feet. They want larger, they want a larger garage. So in staff's opinion, because of that, this request does not meet all the criteria in order for the city to grant a variance. Again, the project meets many of the criteria. It won't harm the neighborhood. It will be in keeping with the neighborhood. But when we look at the plight of the landowner as due to circumstances unique to the property and not created by the landowner, and the variances necessary to special conditions that apply to the land. Staff's response to that is although the size of the lot is large for the zoning district, the existing lot size does not prohibit compliance with the zoning ordinance. Planning Commission reviewed this again at the public hearing on June 4th. They unanimously recommended denial and staff agrees with that and we have a resolution for you recommending Denial of the variance application for the. Oversized accessory garage at 2130. Color in place. I do not see the applicants here, but I know they were notified.

Yeah. Any questions? Any more input from the Planning Commission that you were part of?

Unfortunately, I had to miss that meeting, so I rely on Ken to give us that information.

Any questions? If we were to deny this, could he come back with a smaller... proposal to hopefully get a little bit more into an alignment so it could be put in. And does he have any plans of black topping or concrete in his driveway? Because that's part of the deal. If he wants to put a garage in, he should have it make it black top or concrete for hard service.

Two points there. If we got a proposal in To build a 948 square foot garage here, I'm showing it on the screen here, using this existing concrete garage or driveway, great. They could build that all day, no problem. That's the maximum size.

Does he have concrete down in there now?

Yes. He does? Okay. That's already serving the existing garage that would be demolished.

The detached garage. Okay.

Well, I think he should come back and just shorten up his dimensions a little.

We suggested that. He wanted to go through with his variance request.

Okay. It's good precedent not to have the garages bigger than houses. I think that's the reason why we did that over the years. So, any other questions? Do you want to read what we're going to, or I can read the variance to... Deny?

Yes. Really, council would be making a motion to adopt the resolution to deny the variance application for the property at 2130 Cow Run Place East.

Okay, all those in favor to deny, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. Motion. Didn't I do that already? He read it.

Yeah, but then who made the motion? Oh, I'm sorry. Can I motion that our vote went to the motion?

There you go. Motion by Jason.

I can second that.

Second that motion. We voted on it. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay, thank you.

I hope he comes back and just shortens it up a little.

All right, next up is the zoning ordinance text amendment for accessory dwelling units. Right next door.

That would be me again. Speaking of that home next to the one there on Colorado Place, we had back in April the application for the accessory dwelling unit in that attached garage in that home right next to this one. But the way the accessory dwelling unit ordinance is currently written, they could not have as large of space in accessory dwelling unit as the There was a size limit similar to the garage ordinance we just talked about. So because of that, the Planning Commission asked staff to look at the ordinance and see if we could make some changes. And again, it was April 21st. Council looked at this request for the conditional use permit for the ADU at 2121 Holloway. Again, that's this house, which is right next to that lot on Cowron. They were going to convert this whole space into a accessory dwelling unit. It was going to be about 1,250 square feet total. And council approved that subject to two conditions. Well, there's six conditions, but two relevant to this application. The applicant shall amend the proposed floor plans to show the ADU the square footage of no more than 900... square feet to be in compliance with the code, and if the city approves a zoning ordinance text amendment to allow the ADU to be 1,258 square feet or larger, the city will consider the applicant's original proposal for the ADU in the existing attached garage approved. So our task as staff and the Planning Commission was to go rework the existing ADU ordinance and see if we could make it better. What we're proposing is some language that amends and clarifies the definition of an ADU, amends the maximum size of the attached accessory dwelling unit to 40% of the floor area of the principal dwelling, and the maximum size of a detached ADU to 1,000 square feet, which relates to the maximum size of a detached accessory building. So there's... Several lines of words here that were added in. And this is the code language specifically. Excuse me. Make sure the reference that it has to meet the requirements of the state building code. Excuse me. It must be fully separated from the principal dwelling unit. With the separating wall, they may have a door connecting the unit, the ADU unit to the principal dwelling. It can be in a freestanding structure on the same property as principal dwelling and or with attached to the detached garage, a detached garage. And to clarify, North St. Paul does not consider campers, recreational vehicles, trailers, and or other temporary structures as ADUs. Just to make sure no one tries anything a little wonky. Here's where the biggest change relative to the previous application. We had a maximum size of 900 square feet. We've changed that to 40% of the floor area of the principal dwelling. And in the applicant's case, that would allow them to have 1260 or 80 square feet of ADU, which would be enough to accomplish their request, initial request. And then, so that scales up the larger the home, if it's attached, the larger the ADU can be, so you do it on a percentage and not just a flat square footage limit. Also proposing to add language that the owner or contractor must connect the accessory dwelling unit municipal sanitary sewer and water. Connections for the ADU sanitary sewer and water must be provided from service lines shared with the principal dwelling unless otherwise approved by the public works director. And that owners may not sell accessory dwelling units separately or independently from the principal dwelling or create a separate tax parcel. It's all one property. It has to stay as one property. We don't want it. Somebody trying to split her off and create a little substandard lot. So the Planning Commission reviewed this on June 4th with the changes proposed by staff, and they recommended approval on a 5-0 vote of what staff was proposing. And I'll take questions otherwise. We're recommending council adopt the zoning ordinance text amendment with the motion that approves ordinance 2026-XXX, an ordinance amending portions of chapter 154 of the North St. Paul City Code regarding the definition of an accessory dwelling unit and accessory dwelling unit regulations.

So you're increasing it from the 900 up to approximately 1200?

For this property.

For this property. Well, for this particular property, I checked it. I know it was at least $1,260. So it would accomplish. But we're going to 40%.

I like to change to percentage. I think it makes more sense. I agree.

Yeah, I do too. All right.

We're going to do it right this time. Can I have a motion? Let's try it that way.

So moved.

So moved.

Council Member Woods?

Second.

Second. All right. The motion is that we are going to adapt the 2026 Dwelling Unit. And we have a second by Council Member McKenzie. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Thank you.

All right. Next up is the McKnight Athletic Complex Preliminary Design Development Professional Services Proposal. Turn that back over to you, Ken.

I'll go again. Excuse me your voice gonna make it. Yeah, I'm powering through all right This is a little different proposal. What kind of fun one? It's a contract with WSB for preliminary design development professional services for the midnight and McKnight athletic complex Council is aware the McKnight athletic complex has got several fields and uses on the property and 2024 is city contract with the HGA to develop designs for three parks, including McKnight Athletic Complex, and how to refresh them and maybe redevelop them. Their concept planning, again, that's high-level concept that includes demolition of two tennis courts, a T-ball field and a parking lot, adding a flex field, a skate park, playground, green open space, and event space, new parking since then the city has identified the need for storage in the complex for both public works and electric departments there those weren't incorporated in the initial concept plans we have learned though that since the hda design there is no there are no land use restrictions from a previous agreement with the united states housing and urban Housing and Urban Development Agency, which where our fear was that there was rules in place that said it had all be used for park. And that was in place for a while, but we did find memorandum that said that that restriction has been lifted. Council authorized and the city had a survey done of the McKnight Athletic Complex, which was a first step in figuring out what can be done there and how to design it. So now we're to the next step. We're wanting to get more detailed concept plans and preliminary design plans for the layouts and maybe some options. And Parks Commission is supportive of this. So a little reminder, this is the existing McKnight Fields, Highway 36 to the south, McKnight Road to the west, 11th Avenue up here, four softball fields around tennis courts, Concord Baseball Field, a tee ball field and parking, batting cages there. Some of those elements stay, some would go if everything got built as the concept plan shows. Excuse me. So this one, again, the parking here, McKnight Road's over here to the west. This is the flex field that was talked about. This would be a playground climber, green space, open space, skate park here is number six. An event space, Kunkel Field remains the same. That doesn't change. And the concept plan shows two southern softball fields remaining. This is the batting cages up here. And then the two northern softball fields being refurbished or redone with turf and could be used for multiple different sports, whether it's soccer, lacrosse, or even softball and artificial turf. Those are the HGA designs. Staff has been working then with... WSB to put together site evaluation and preliminary design plans for this. And there's many elements that need to be done to design it correctly, including geotechnical exploration, an asbestos and regulated materials survey, wetland delineation, natural resources review. We would have meetings with stakeholders. They would develop some schematic designs and a preliminary development design with cost estimates and phasing options because, just for example, We don't want to say we want to build this, but yet that gets in the way of something we want to build over here. So we got to know which piece comes first and then second, then third, that kind of thing. So phasing will be very important. Clearly we'll work closely with the Parks Commission and the City Council, but the evaluation process will determine the feasibility of the features Get some cost estimates and the recommended phasing. And WSB estimates this process will take six to eight months to complete. There are representatives from WSB here. If you have questions for them, I'm giving you the high-level overview. But staff's recommendation that the council approve an authorized city manager to execute the contract with WSB for the preliminary design development of professional services as dated June 10th, 2026 for the McKnight Athletic Complex with a not to exceed amount of $129,000. Okay.

I know that the soil up there is pretty bad. Are we going to be doing... Lots of soil borings.

...before? Yes. Because... That's the geotechnical...

Yeah, that could derail quite a bit, because I know that when they did the Costco up there, when they kind of was on the same thing, it was like walking on a mattress. I remember it took them forever to get down good dirt.

Yeah, Ron's told us all about the fine soils out there.

Any questions, anybody?

I have one, and it's more of a technical question than this particular project. From everything WSB's ever done for us, they've done an exemplary job, but one of the things I don't understand is when does a project like this have to go for a bid, and when do we just get to choose WSB?

I bet Morgan has an answer.

I can certainly provide the context as having been a consultant engineer for coming up on 30 years so under and I'll defer to the city attorney if he wants to add more color commentary, but hiring professional services like a consultant for engineering or architecture or Building you know building official like you know Many cities use consultants for different arrangements. It's a little bit different than municipal contracting law. So hiring a contractor to build your streets or to work on utilities, there's very clear direction in terms of how cities might go about taking sealed bids. Comparing those, requirement to award a contract to the lowest responsive and responsible bidder, that sort of thing. Professional services, a little bit different. There's no requirement to have to go out. Certainly, you can go out for RFPs. The city has gone out for RFPs for different things, for professional services and other things. because of the standing contract with WSB, you know, if a proposal is reviewed and accepted, then certainly could be presented to city council for consideration for award in that situation without kind of like, if you want to call it competitive, but there's also no statutory requirement to award a professional services contract to the low bidder, for example, right? It's more qualified or could be considered more qualifications based or Otherwise, it's not necessarily the same as contracted construction services, if you will, if that makes sense. So, you know, this is simply an extension of what the contract that the city does have for ongoing professional services, certainly general engineering, city engineering is one of them. for specific types of things like a project, doing construction administration on one of your projects, as you've heard me present those types of things to council before, the acceptance of that letter proposal then becomes a part of that standing contract that has been in place between WSB and the City of North St. Paul. So this is similar to that. I'm confident in telling the council here that the scope and the price that is being presented to you is competitive. We put a lot of thought into it. I only want the best people working for me from WSB for the City of North St. Paul because I've been working for you since 2009. I don't anticipate wanting to give you a team of people that's not going to give you anything but the best. Candice Amberg, who's our landscape architect, has worked with me on many, many, many projects over the years in many different cities, and she does have parks and rec experience. Smaller things, she worked on some things in Polar Park and Housie Park and some other parks. Things like accessibility and playground improvements and things like that that have been important to the city of North St. Paul, so she is familiar with the staff, kind of the general lay of the land in terms of City of North St. Paul's expectations. And in addition to that, you know, I do have, you know, civil engineer folks on the team in the proposal that actually have day in, day out experience as city engineers of record and working with public works directors. So I think that's gonna be a key for success here or a success factor in delivering this project is being able to balance the different recreational needs, amenity needs, and also some of what public works and electric is looking for in the same footprint, but having that make sense. It needs to make sense to the users of that piece of property, both from an operations and maintenance standpoint, but also from a recreational standpoint as well, too. And there's a way to make that work. I'm confident that the people that are proposed as a part of the team and the scope that we've put together are going to be able to deliver that for you. Maybe I went on too long, but hopefully that answered your question in terms of how this is coming to you. It's very similar to street and utility project proposals that you've seen from me. This is not something that happens every day, but it's kind of in the same vein as that. But the city and city council always has the ability to, you know, go out for RFPs or do something more competitive or less. And that's just simply up to the city and the city manager. In this situation, it seemed like it was a pretty easy scoping decision. We did our discussion. We had at least two meetings, if not three, and some emails back and forth between Ken and his staff and folks on my staff. Development of proposal time, that's at no cost to the city. We actually took some time to sit down and understand, okay, what are the needs? What are the things that have come out with some of these things from a public works and electric standpoint? What are some ideas? What are some risk factors? Candice has enough experience to say, hey, asbestos in tennis courts is a thing and you don't want to be caught you know, in the middle of the construction project, not knowing how to deal with that. So, again, I'm very confident we're giving you a solid proposal at a competitive price.

Thank you.

Thanks, Morgan. Any other questions? All right. I'm going to go get me one second and get back up. I was looking at the pictures, and I've got to get back up to the top.

Do-do-do-do-do.

So the motion is that...

Authorize city manager to execute contract with WSB for the preliminary design development professional services dated June 10th, 2026 with WSB for McKnight Field and McKnight Athletic Complex with a not to exceed amount of $129,000.00.

All right, can I have a motion on that, please?

So moved.

So moved.

Second. Second, Woods. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed? All right, thank you.

Thank you. Last item up is the 2026 Crack Ceiling Project Received Bids and Award Contract. WSB is here, and I think Tierney is going to put this forward to the council.

Welcome. Good to see you again. Good to have you.

Thank you, City Manager Frandall, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, members of the council, I'm here to discuss the action item, approve the resolution accepting quotes and awarding a construction contract for the 2026 crack ceiling project. Crack ceiling's a type of regular pavement maintenance that is used to extend the lifespan of pavement. The proposed area, as you can see on the map, for crack sealing was determined with the help of Public Works. The project area was then broken into three priorities based on inspections conducted by Public Works and the 2024 crack sealing project. Based off this map, we received four quotes for this project on May 21st, 2026. The quotes we received range from $61,000 to roughly $103,000. The lowest quote we received was from Seal Pros. Seal Pros is a new contractor to the city of North St. Paul, so we did reach out to three references from the city of Brooklyn Park, the city of Eden Prairie, and the city of Afton. All three cities were happy with the work they did and would work with the contractor again. Based on this information, the staff recommends that the city council accept bids and award by resolution a construction contract for the grand total quote in the amount of $60,116.78 to seal pros for the 2026 crack sealing project. I'm happy to answer any questions the council has about this project.

When are they set to do it? Is it gonna be quick?

The earliest they could do it is end of June.

End of June, okay. Which is next week. Any other questions?

Well, with the lines drawn out here in the green, what are the blue lines for like Navajo, east and west off of Helen to Hilltop? What are the blue lines representing then?

Related to priorities just based on pre-bidding in case bids came in very high and then we could break it down from there. Okay.

I can't tell the difference between the green and the orange, so.

The only suggestion I would have is use different colors, but that's just.

Dyslexic and colorblind. I won the lottery.

Good to know for the future.

Yes. All right. If any other questions, can I have a motion for the crack ceiling project for 2026?

So moved.

So moved. Council Member McKenzie? Second. Second. Council Member Norby? All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Thank you very much. Thank you, Tony.

Thank you, Tony.

All right. Moving on to manager and department reports. I'll start off with departments. Electric department's been busy. They have the directional... drilling crew here that they've hired to install a conduit up by Tower Park in that area, which will be looping some of the electric circuits up there, which is really good for power outages, being able to get people back on quicker. Also, they're doing a lot of pole installations or change-outs, which they're nearly complete for the transfer for ongoing for the fiber company that has asked them to do that. Their new employee started last week. He's doing well and fitting in, so that's great. Communications, they had the time capsule event over the weekend. It was successful in a way, but unfortunately they had water inside of the canister, so they're trying to get what they can out of it for the presentation still. The event will be covered by, or expected to be covered by Pioneer Press and WCCO Channel 4. HR had no workplace injuries to report for last month, so that's great. And the personnel policy is updated and complete, and the revisions and the policy will be distributed to staff soon. It was a long process, so we need everybody's help on that, especially you, Jack. Finance said all of the 27 department budgets have been submitted. Capital improvement plans are due this Friday, so I'll be meeting with the department heads and going over their budgets and the CIP requests here shortly. PD, they are doing their sergeant interviews this week, finishing up this week. Police officer applications closed yesterday. They had 10 applicants that they received, so that's good. They do have the cameras lined up to be out for the fourth at Casey Lake and at Silver Lake again this year, which is to deter some of the issues that we've had in the past. and the staff continues to participate in the towards zero death outreach and education events. Public Works has been busy with the student-filled house project, continues with the trim work underway. HVAC is operational. Trees have been removed from the site and the final grading is complete. Subcontractors remain active on the site and a final cabinet to be installed this week. Casey Lake project is progressing well. The pond has been constructed, liners installed, approximately halfway complete and final pipe work is scheduled for this week and final completion is still looking for July 4th, weather dependent of course. Street sweeping operations are near to complete for their second city pass. And paving has begun on the 2026 road project with several sections already completed. And the recent storms, they've seen some trees come down in the parks, some on the streets, but mostly it was private trees that came down. Community development, the five candidates were interviewed for the internship position and one was selected and will begin next Monday. So we'll be welcoming Julia Klinker for that position. Preliminary comprehensive plan information was submitted to WSB for cost estimation and review. And then I'd like to end by saying I really appreciate your time here, Jack, and it's been a good professional relationship. I hate to see you go, but best wishes and congrats to your new position. You'll be missed.

Thank you very much, and I'll miss all of you as well. It's been really lovely working with all of you. Even me?

Mostly.

Mostly.

There you go. Now you got it. All right.

Thank you very much. All right, reports, commissions.

We had our EDA last Tuesday, the 9th, and pleased to report that we have had four applicants for the facade program throughout our downtown. We've had Gary Insurance put in a bid for some work in the front of his. Rosbach Building and Construction's doing his. Division, the old shortstop, we haven't got any totals for him, but he's in the process. And Paperback Books is going through the process, and they're doing a nice facade addition, and it was nice to see we had some good positive feedback from that group.

Thank you very much.

Arts and Culture Commission had our last meeting just after our last City Council meeting on the 3rd and we talked about went through budgets got our budget set for that and reviewed some designs for upcoming utility boxes as well as I would like to point out that the utility box We like to call it the heart hands one, is done and wrapped on the east side of Casey Lake Park now. So if you get a chance, go out there and check it out. It looks awesome. Great.

Thank you, Troy. The planning commission met on June 4th. Unfortunately, I was unable to attend. We voted on some of the stuff that was discussed there, and the next planning commission meeting will be Thursday, July 2nd. Thank you very much.

Yeah, general business. Anything?

I was at the raising of the capsule the other morning, and it was a dull disappointment to see the water draining out the bottom.

That's too bad.

But they solved a bit. I think they're going to be able to solve a bunch of it, but some of it was pitched. But it was really nice to see and kind of fun to watch it come up out of the ground.

Nice. Great. Andrew? Andrew? I've got nothing. I didn't make it to last week's car show. My wife and I were gone for the weekend, but I was at the first one. And so it's nice to see. And I know you mentioned you were at the second one. So I know during our EDA, when I was there too, the businesses really appreciate having both of them. Because, I mean, that was a big deal for our businesses. So, you know, it... It's good. It's going to take time for the new one and, of course, the ones that have been around forever. So it's a good mix, and the business really appreciate it. So it's a good deal. If nothing else, we're not going to close. We have to do a closed-door session. Before we do that, the meeting will be closed under Minnesota Stat 13D.05 Sub 3C to consider an offer regarding the sale of the property located at 2300 North St. Paul Drive. So we'll go into closed doors and then adjourn the meeting from there. So no gavels, no nothing. Thanks, everybody.