Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

you guys.

All right, good evening. Today is August 26, 2026, and I'm going to call to order the regular meeting of the Muriel Planning Commission. Madam Secretary, would you please do a roll call for determination of a quorum? Here. All right, this moves us on to the Pledge of Allegiance. Commissioner Wojciech, you were standing, but could you please lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance, please?

Place your hand, right hand over your heart. Ready to begin.

All right, this moves us on to the approval of the agenda. Are there any changes to the agenda, Madam Secretary? All right, I'll call for a motion and a second to approve the agenda. Would you like us to do this electronically? All right, we have a motion by Commissioner Voychek, second by Commissioner Rose.

Motion carries unanimously.

3-0. We need to vote. If you want to do a roll call or electronic, either way is fine.

We'll do electronic.

You see it? Yes.

We did see it was a motion by Commissioner Wojciech and then second by Rose. All right.

Motion carries unanimously, 3-0.

We still need to vote. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we're having the.

You're probably predicting the outcome.

Yeah. If you would rather us do a roll call vote, we can do that if it makes it simpler.

We'll do a roll call vote. Chair Vrooman.

Aye. Approve.

Chair Voychek.

Aye.

Commissioner Rose. Aye. Motion carries unanimously, 3-0. Okay.

This moves us on to public comments. At this time, we'll take public comments. Any person may address the Planning Commission on any subject pertaining to city business which does not relate to any item listed on the agenda or the consent calendar. Normally, no action may be considered or taken by the Planning Commission on any matter not listed on the agenda. Speakers are limited to three minutes. Madam Secretary, do we have any non-agenda public comments?

Seeing none.

Okay, thank you. Then this closes the public comments. So we're going to move ahead with the approval of minutes from the July 8th, 2026 regular planning commission meeting as presented. Now, before we do so, I did get a question from a member of the public on whether our minutes, whether required or if we do publish the speakers in Just mentioning their names, whether they were in support, against, or neutral. Is that something that we're, this would be a question to the city attorney. Is this something that we're required to do? Is it a nice to have, need to have? What would be your legal?

So the Brown Act and state law do not require minutes in any fashion to be kept. The only requirement under state law and under the Brown Act is a record of actions taken by the board. So anything that any agency does in excess of that is purely at the discretion of that agency. Minutes are generally kept for things like this as a summary of those actions, and they're not intended to be a transcript of the proceedings. However, usually the videos are kept as a public record for anybody who wants to go into that level of detail.

And just offhand, do you know at the city council level what they do? Is it published in their minutes or?

I do not know offhand the details of the city council minutes. That would be how the clerk keeps them, and it's a different clerk for the planning commission as it is for the council. So I'm not sure if they... Do you know if you have a consistent policy on that?

So the city council does action minutes as well.

Action minutes as well. So it's the same type of format, it sounds like.

Okay, so they don't list the... The speakers, the for and against and neutral in their minutes.

They list the speakers. I'm not sure that they put if they're for or against it.

Well, I guess maybe, and maybe moving forward just for consistency purposes, should we not be the same as council?

Yeah, I always try to keep everything consistent, but I'll look at that. I know in the past they haven't, but it could have changed in the last year.

I would also caution, not every speaker comes up and declares whether they're for or against the item. Sometimes speakers just come up to speak. So we wouldn't know if they're for or against, depending on what they say.

Yeah, I think just generally when they walk up, we call the people that are for first, and then we call the people that are against second. So we call them in that order. But I guess for whatever, just for whatever council does, I would just... make a suggestion or maybe with my colleagues if we just do whatever they do to be consistent moving forward. I wouldn't say change anything for tonight, but moving forward.

Sure, I can do that.

Okay. All right. Let's move forward with the approval of the minutes. Madam Secretary, any members of the public requesting to speak on the approval of the minutes?

Seeing none.

Then again, looking for a motion and a second on the approval of the minutes. All right, we have the same two. Motion by Commissioner Wojcik and second by Commissioner Rose electronically. You want to do a roll call?

Sure. Chair Vrooman.

Aye.

Vice Chair Wojcik. Commissioner Rose. Aye. Motion carries unanimously 3-0.

Okay. Now moving on to the public hearing. And our first and only public hearing is the Development Plan Permit DP-2023-00060 and the Conditional Use Permit associated with it, CUP-2023-00020 for car wash. Are there any members of the Planning Commission that wishes to abstain or recuse themselves? All right, seeing none, we'll move on to the staff presentation. Mr. Thiessen.

Good evening, Chair Vrooman, Vice Chair Voychek, and Commissioner Rose. My name is Nicholas Thiessen, Associate Planner with the Development Services Department. I'll be presenting this project for your review tonight. Joining me here is Christopher Tracy, Senior Planner of the Development Services Department. And before use, a development plan permit 2023-00060 and a conditional use permit 2023-00020 for the construction and operation of the new Quick Quack Express car wash located at 25195 Madison Avenue. This slide provides an overview of the project site. Approximately 0.84 acre site is located on the westerly side of Madison Avenue, south of the Los Alamos Road, and north of Murrieta Hot Springs Road. The property is located within an established commercial corridor and is served by existing roadway, utilities, public services, and infrastructure. The project site has a commercial general plan land use designation and community commercial zoning. To the north is an existing retail shopping center that includes American Tire Depot. To the south is an existing commercial development including Mega Tom's Burgers. And across Madison Avenue to the east is Marietta Springs Plaza Retail Center, which includes stores such as Home Depot, PetSmart, Cardenas. To the west is a multifamily residential project, which is identified in the staff report. is under construction within the TOD overlay, and is project development plan 2022-2685, tentative parcel map 38568, referred to as Jefferson Murrieta Apartments. Car wash is a conditionally permitted use in the community commercial zone, and therefore it requires approval of a conditional use permit. A little background for everyone. The property was previously developed with the Madison Creek Commercial Center, which was approved by the city in 2004 and consists of a 9,020 square foot, one story commercial and office building with four tenant suites. In recent years, the site has experienced limited occupancy and prolonged vacancies. The applicant proposes to redevelop the underutilized commercial property with a new express car wash facility. The redevelopment includes removal of the existing building and associated improvements, followed by construction of the new car wash, stacking lanes, vacuum stations, parking landscape, and so on. The applicants requesting the approval of development plan and conditional use permit. The development plan authorizes the proposed site improvements and site plan, while the conditional use authorizes operation of the car wash within the community commercial zone. project consisting of a 3,588 square foot, one story express car wash for passenger vehicles. The businesses anticipate to operate daily from 8 a.m. till 9 p.m. with approximately two to three employees on site at any given time. This slide here shows the proposed site plan and the overall organization of the project. The car wash tunnel, as you see, is located generally within the central portion of the site. Vehicles will enter the dual stacking lanes along the southwesterly portion of the property and then proceed through the wash tunnel. The plan also provides exterior vacuum stations and a canopy, employee parking, a loading space, perimeter landscaping, lighting, drainage improvements, and the required utility connections. The project meets the applicable community commercial development standards, including setbacks, height, and landscaping. The building set back a minimum of 47 feet from an interior property line. The building's 29 feet 7 inches in height, which is below the 50 foot maximum. And the project proposes 21% landscaping, where a minimum of 20% is required. site will continue to take access from two existing driveways on madison avenue the shared primary driveway near the northeasterly corner is located at a signalized intersection and allows left and right turn movements into and out of the property secondary driveway near the southeasterly corner is restricted to right turn exit movements only Traffic Assessment Report evaluated the circulation and vehicle queuing. The project provides two stacking lanes with approximately 100 linear feet of storage in each lane for approximately 200 linear feet in total. This exceeds the minimum 120 linear feet of total storage that's required by the city's municipal code for this use and is intended to prevent vehicle queues from extending beyond the project site. The city's traffic engineer reviewed the project and determined that it would not create any additional traffic impacts beyond those anticipated in the general plan circulation element. This slide here shows the proposed architectural design of the car wash building. The building's designed to complement the Tuscan-style commercial architecture that's already found along Madison Avenue. Exterior materials and features including stucco, stone veneer, tiled pitch roof, metal awnings, decorative cornice treatments, and multiple complementary paint colors and vertical and horizontal plane changes. The parapets are designed to screen rooftop equipment while also providing additional articulations. projects, architectural materials, and detailing are consistent with the city's commercial development standards and the surrounding commercial development. Here we see the floor plan proposed for the 3,588 square foot structure. The majority of the building is occupied by the tunnel and equipment room. All of the interior office space, restroom, and employee lounge is restricted to the employee use only. The only time that the public would leave their vehicle is when they're utilizing the vacuum stalls. And per the building official, there isn't a building code requirement to provide any public restrooms for an express car wash facility. The development code requires 2.5 parking spaces for the project's single automated wash bay, together with the required accessible parking and loading space. The project provides a total of 11 spaces. This consists of three employee spaces, seven spaces equipped with vacuum stanchions, and one loading space. The parking supply therefore exceeds the minimum requirements set by the municipal code. Approximately 21% of the site will be landscape. Again, as mentioned before, that exceeds the minimum 20% that the zone requires. It also includes a minimum 15-foot wide landscape buffer provided along Madison Avenue. And the landscape plan preserves eight existing trees and adds 22 new trees along with shrubs, ground cover, mulched areas intended to provide screening and improve the appearance of the site. The operational characteristics of the car wash were evaluated because of the multifamily residential project that is located due west of the site. The noise study concluded that the project would comply with the city's applicable exterior noise standards with implementation of the recommended equipment and operational features. Those features include limiting the hours of operation between 8 a.m. and 9 p.m. daily, also using an ultra-quiet blower system, such as the identified 120-horsepower IDC Predator blower, or an equivalent system, They will also be including acoustic liner along the last 15 feet of the car wash tunnel. And they'll be lowering the tunnel exit door to nine feet to help reduce the noise exiting the car wash tunnel. The project is also conditioned to comply with the noise study and the city's noise ordinance. The project has been evaluated under California Environmental Quality Act and determined to qualify for a class 32 categorical exemption for infill development pursuant to CEQA guidelines section 15332. The project would redevelop a previously developed 0.84 acre site located within the city limits, which is substantially surrounded by urban development. The project is consistent with the applicable general plan and zoning designations and that site does not contain habitat for endangered, rare, or threatened species. The traffic assessment determined that the project provides adequate on-site queuing and would not result in significant traffic impacts. The noise study determined that the project would comply with the city standards with the required operational and design features. The city's environmental review also determined that the project would not result in any significant effects related to air quality or water quality. Existing utilities and public services are available. The site is not included on a hazardous materials list compiled pursuant to government code section 65962.5. And none of the exceptions in CEQA guidelines section 15300.2 apply with this project. In closing, it is staff's recommendation tonight for you, the Planning Commission, to consider and approve the notice of exemption for infill development and adopt the resolution approving development plan 2023-00060 and conditional use permit 2023-00020 as seen on your screens. Thank you for your time tonight, and this concludes my presentation for the project. I'm available, as well as the applicant and their team, to address any questions that you, the commission, may have for this project.

All right, thank you, Mr. Thiessen. We'll go ahead and open it up for questions from myself and my colleagues. I'll start with Commissioner Wojciech to my left.

Thank you, Mr. Thiessen, for that. Thank you for that. Do you know if it's a land lease or are they buying a specific parcel?

I do believe that it is. This is a partnership between Quick Quack and the property owner. I'm not sure what contracts or things are after this point, but as of right now, they've been working jointly.

My sense of direction may be off, but I'm going to say... Business that's north of this one or northwest? What businesses are there?

So directly north. Is that north? Right. Would be on the same side of Madison Avenue is American Tire Depot. Just south of it is Mega Tom's. Okay.

The blowers are going to be on the north side, correct?

They're going to be on the north side.

And you mentioned that these blowers, they're like 120 horsepower, and they're referenced in the report.

Correct.

Do you know if there's any on the market that are actually quieter than those?

My understanding, through working through the noise study, that this would be the most efficient, quietest blower that is on the market today.

And then I had a question going to the staff report. It's number two. And what we're supposed to determine as a planning commission is whether it's consistent with the objectives, policies, general land use programs of the general plan. And then we look at general plan goal LU1. And it says it looks to provide a complimentary balance of land uses throughout the community that meets the needs of existing residents. And then it says it does in the next sentence, but it's very conclusionary. There's no facts. And so It's hard for me to look at this because the section is facts. It shouldn't be conclusions. It should be what facts are we using to support that. And I'm not really seeing that. Was that?

Good point. No, not on purpose or either. In this area, one, there are no car washes within this general vicinity. And so, to some degree, we have to rely on the applicant, that they've done their market research, and that this is the best use. The existing structure, as one of my images here shows, unfortunately has been underutilized and under-leased. That's been one of the biggest problems for the applicant. As far as other uses, anything could be proposed, but the applicant and property owner, through their research and studies, have determined that this would be the best.

And I agree with you that even as a city, we don't want underperforming properties. We don't like to see vacancies. We like to see businesses and hopefully generate sales tax and revenues and all that. So I get that. But in the analysis, did staff look at, because you said this is the only one in that vicinity or that area, did staff look at where the other ones were, like within a radius of this particular location?

Yeah, I don't have direct measurements or distances. I do have a slide here that you can see. Not a great image, sorry. We do have Walmart down here, right? So this project is gonna be just a bit north of that, right about where it says WAL, if you can see that.

I can't, I see the Walmart. Yes. Okay.

So where it says WAL is where this project is. So the majority of the car washes that we do have run along California Oaks Road, up along Clinton Keith on the north end of the city, Myriad Hot Springs to the east, but in this general area here on the west side of town, on the southern side of the town, we don't have any express car washes at this time.

Okay. And we don't know the distances, right?

I would make a best guess that it would be a couple miles.

Commissioner, I would say the Chevron's probably about half a mile away at Cal Oaks and Madison.

Okay. Yeah, I see that. And then it looks like there's one just west of that, right by City Hall right here, right? Yeah. Okay.

The Fast Five's about the same distance to the east on Hot Springs.

Okay. Okay. Got it, okay. In the same paragraph on page 16, it says that the proposed use expands the range of commercial services available to the public within the corridor. Again, that's a very conclusionary statement. Were there facts used to support that that aren't in the report? Because to me, this is very fact-driven, right? I didn't know if there's more supporting that.

Can you repeat which line you're referencing?

It's the very last sentence. If you go to page 16, top paragraph that says facts, it's the last sentence.

That the proposed use compatible with surrounding commercial uses expands the range. And again, this was more based on the general area here not the city at large, and the fact that there aren't any express car washes in this general vicinity.

Okay. So when, and that was going to be my question, when you talk about expanding the range of commercial services, that could mean a thousand things to somebody. I didn't write this, Paul, so I didn't know what their intent was. That's what I'm trying to figure out. Because almost any commercial establishment you put there, there's one argument you can say, well, doesn't that expand commercial services? Or is the intent to put a service there that ordinarily isn't offered? And that's the expansion we're talking about.

Yeah, so I'll step in there. That's not really what the general plan is getting at. It's more of the first part of what you said. Are we getting commercial uses where we want to see commercial uses? It's more like it's sort of at a higher level when you're talking about the general plan. So it's not really getting into whether or not the use should be like other uses that, like sort of the discussion you're getting at. The general plan's looking at it at a higher level. We're just looking to get commercial uses where we want to see commercial uses.

So. I guess I'm trying to figure out when would it be a non-commercial use? When it's not commercial. Yeah, I know. So like residential. Residential. Industrial. Okay.

A power plant, you know, something else. Wow. Then we might have a general plan conformance issue, and that's why you do... Well, yeah, you're not going to put homes there. Well, somebody might propose to do that. So then you're looking at a whole different set of findings, right? Right. This is a commercial use proposed on a commercial site where we've designated it for commercial use. So it fits all the...

Okay. So it's more of a macro view.

Yeah.

Okay. Got it. Okay. I don't think I have any further questions. Thank you, though. Thank you. Commissioner Rose.

I had two questions. Could you go back to the slide that shows the property as it is now? Yes. The one just before that.

That would be the proposed.

That's the proposed. Yes. Got it. The next slide. So if I understand right, that entire property will be torn down and the existing bushes there and stuff will all be torn up and new landscaping will be put in and the carwash will be basically on the land that exists already. That is correct. My second question is, is how close is this to a residential or apartment complex?

So let me go through the slides here. I'll go with this. So this is the project that I referenced in the staff report and during the presentation here. Jefferson, a myriad of,

So that's not built yet.

So right now they're currently under phase one, which would be, if you're looking at the screen, the right hand half of the project. There's about 456 units plus or minus that are being constructed right now.

And what's the total number that are?

The total includes phase two, which would be the left hand side, which is an additional 308. So... We're 764 plus or minus apartments.

And how close is this to the proposed car wash?

Because the property line kind of meanders a little bit right through there. From the... Looking at this screen, we'll say the right-hand corner of the building will be about... 140 feet from the nearest building right there. And on the left-hand side corner of the building, it'll be about 160. So we have about 140 to 160 feet of distance between the car wash tunnel and this. With that being said, sorry, I'll let you go.

No, no, go ahead.

We have the Yoder Wash that runs between that has existing trees and canopy. On the back side of the site, let me find another image here in our conceptuals. As you can see here, we've also worked with the applicant. We have a six foot tall freestanding mason block wall that will be there to help attenuate noise As well as the landscaping, there's a five-foot landscape buffer between that wall and the two dry vials. So with the 140 and 160 feet distance, we also have a number of trees that are existing mature within the yoder wash, as well as about a tree every... 20, 30 feet within that landscape buffer that will also grow to help separate the two uses.

And the apartment buildings that are being built, how many stories are those?

I believe three, three stories. The backside of this one here, the first story is all garages, and then it would be the living quarters above.

I'm trying to figure out the sight line from the apartments to the car wash. That I don't have an answer for you.

I'm not sure if this project after grading will sit lower, equal or higher right now. That I don't have an answer.

Okay, thank you.

Yeah, I was gonna add if it helps, the first floor is gonna be a part, it looks like they're garages facing the car wash facility.

So that was one of the questions I had was the distance to the apartments. I think you answered that roughly because there's carports on the side that's closest to the car wash. And then the apartments, are they going to be above the garages? It's hard to tell with the drawing there.

We believe so. It would be in three stories.

Okay. And then right turn lane that's going out onto Madison. I went by the property yesterday and I just thought about this. I know the city's done some site improvements on Madison Avenue where there's been a raised center divider that was modified and I Honestly, I couldn't remember with that right turn only. I know it's right turn only, but is there a raised center divider right outside that driveway? I mean, if somebody wanted to make an illegal left turn, they could, or are they pretty much forced to go right?

This is a fantastic question. perhaps the engineering has a better answer.

Or is there a plan eventually to add a race center divider out of there to prevent any type of illegal left turn traffic? And I suppose there'd be some signage posted.

Good evening, my name's Rick Alzaga, I'm the principal engineer for the city of Marietta. And while you were asking the question, I was quickly trying to do the Google Earth thing, and you just give me a second. So it looks like there is no raised median. So if somebody wanted to, physically they could, but I guess our public records would show if people actually made those movements. My personal opinion is you have two driveways. and they're close to each other, so more than likely people would use the signalized exit if they wanted to make a left, because there's a left turn pocket if you wanted to make a left. If people are coming into that business, vehicles will be the obstruction, so they would make the right turn. Physically, yeah, I could see people could physically do that, but it seems maybe not likely.

I tend to agree with you. I think more people would probably want to use the signal. I see the, I would anticipate that those are the vacuum bays. And instead of like on an angle, like the one across the street where it kind of forces you out one direction, it looks like it's multi-direction here. So you back out of those vacuum bays. And if you wanted to make a left turn, you'd go to the signal. It just makes sense you would do that. But is there a, on that one driveway that's a right turn only? Is there a requirement for a sign postage saying right turn only?

Right now, there is not. This is an existing driveway that has been being utilized since the original development plan for the 9,000 square foot commercial use. So in keeping that, you know, There hasn't been any known issues at that driveway, but it may be something that we could certainly.

Yeah, I think that would probably just be a good idea just to remind people as they're exiting there that that would be it would make sense to put a bright turn only. Right. And then it's hard to tell. I know there's another driveway there, but it looks as though. like the angle of the driveway is to force people to the right, but I don't know if that's going to be a modification on this project, if that has to be done, or if it's just the drawing to kind of somewhat indicate that. But I would say a right turn only sign would be helpful, right, to prevent driving violations. Another question with Megatoms right there. And I've sat there, I've eaten at the restaurant there many, many times. I've sat in those booths right up against the glass there. Now, as vehicles come in there and they transition to go through the car wash, let's say it's, you know, well, there's no daylight saving time anymore, right? But at nighttime, they come through there and with headlights splashing through the restaurant windows there, what have we done to mitigate that and work with that owner?

This is treated very much like... any other drive through the setup. And so on this southeasterly line here, there is a low freestanding wall that is required as part of that. It ranged in 36 to 42 inches in height that would be required for that, as well as the additional landscaping That side, too, has a five-foot landscape buffer where shrubs, trees, and such are required to also minimize the potential headlight glare that could come through on it.

Okay.

And Tom's does sit much lower in elevation there. So realistically, the hopes is that this wall will do plenty to reduce that.

Okay, and then one thing I noticed which I like is the, not necessarily with all car wash facilities that we've seen, they have their own standard way of look and their own architecture that seems to be more kind of corporate driven. This one looks to be a little bit more mitigated to kind of fit in with the design of the quote unquote neighborhood. So was that something that, I guess, explain that process of what you did with the applicant to maybe kind of get to that. Is it something that it was a requirement by code or is it something that in negotiations back and forth they voluntarily wanted to do?

Chapter 16.10, the commercial standards, zoning district standards, design requirements do call out and require for consistency and compatibility within the area. So, Every project, especially this one, early on, that's one of the parts of the conversation through the cycle letter review that we go through. And so myself working with the Quick Quack team early on, the design was able to come through and meet those standards.

This is the first one that I think I've seen where it's going to a location that's already been developed. It's not like a... blank piece of land and then there's really nothing around it type of thing. So then there's maybe less design standards where this one, there's already a set of, uh, the neighborhood, the way it looks right. And so, uh, this one had to basically kind of fit in and it looks like a lot of the same coloring and things like that from the, uh, building that's going to be torn down. So, um, I appreciate that. And then, um, It was mentioned by Commissioner Wojciech here, and maybe this is something that Mr. Agajanian can answer. What sales tax revenue do these type of businesses bring into the city?

So it's a complementary use to the other retail sales that's around it. It's a little more in keeping with what's in that corridor, meaning that when you go out, you're probably not using the space that was currently there to go any other shopping. Sometimes you do go out, go to a car wash, and then go pick up some food and do some shopping. So it's a little more in keeping. To an earlier question, you had mentioned a little bit of a data history. I will just point out, Murrieta has the highest number of cars per capita anywhere in the United States. So our demand for car washes is just naturally higher than other places.

Well, I think it would it be fair to say to I mean with the amount of residential maybe the multi family residential facilities that have been approved that there seems to be probably more of a demand for these type of facilities by virtue of the fact that we have more multi family coming in.

Yeah, it's a combination of what we already have with the high demand and adding in all the new residences that are coming in it's going to only increase.

So I've understood your, it was a very tactful answer, but, uh, to, to give the point, these, these businesses don't per se bring in any specific sales tax revenue. However, the ancillary type of, Hey, I'm going to go get my car washed and I'm going to do this in the same trip per se, uh, may cause other, other, Hey, I think I might go to Megatoms and, and, uh, go get something to eat because it's right next door to where I'm getting my car washed.

In retail, we talk a lot about co-tenancy and how you put together a site that has meaningful impact for people to go do shopping. Car washes do supply that. It's an amenity demanded by the community just because of how much need we have. That's why they continue to build.

How about when you, like, monthly, some of them have, like, monthly or annual subscriptions and things like that. Does that bring any, those monthly or annual subscription rates, do they bring in sales tax revenue?

They're not sales tax based. Again, it just goes to keeping our cars clean without having people attempting to illegally do it at home and wash brake dust and oils down to the storm drain. Sure.

Yeah, so there's a benefit. Okay, that's all I have. Thank you, Scott. Thank you. I'm with that I don't have any other specific questions at this time will take a testimony from the applicant if you if the applicant would like to get up and speak I see a Mister client if you'd.

Thank you chair room and planning commissioners. Cast and client on behalf of Don Shively with quick back and we have our other. consultants here, our architect, our civil engineer, our noise consultant, and our traffic consultant for any further questions that you may have. As you can see by the the project number 2023 we've worked very collaboratively and this project has probably been the most scrutinized project that I've worked on and. You know I attribute that to our staff listening to the planning Commission on previous projects specifically the concern revolved around noise. and traffic. So I, you know, compliments to Nick and Carl and the rest of the team for that. For the record, we stipulate to the conditions of approval. The project strictly satisfies all required legal findings and is consistent with our development code and our general plan, and we respectfully request approval based on the complete technical record and staff recommendation. Now I'll try to answer your questions. I'll go in the order which they were asked. Commissioner Voychuk, did you, regarding the land lease, I sent a support letter from the landlord to the city clerk, and I don't know if you received that or not.

I did.

Okay. We did. I think the rest of your questions were answered by staff. If they weren't, when I'm done, you can hit me with them. Commissioner Rose, Your question regarding proximity to JPI. I've previously done research on most of the other car washes in town. And generally speaking, using Google Maps, they have a measuring device. And I won't name the competitor by name, but there is an express car wash over on Jackson and Murrieta Hot Springs Road. And based on, and this is general, this isn't exactly, right, but based on my research using that device, from that structure to the nearest residence is 130 feet. From the vacuum, where they vacuum, it's 71 feet. So comparatively speaking, we are further than that particular facility. And then the concern with the line of sight. You know, I think this is my own personal opinion. This is an upgrade to the existing building if you walk behind it. But more importantly, if you drove back behind and look and see what they're going to be looking into at the American Tire Depot, this is a huge upgrade compared to what's existing there today. Chair Vrooman, we will add signage. The no right turn, and we'll work with engineering staff on that. It was pointed out to me by our traffic engineer that there is an existing island out there that partially obscures or what would be an illegal left, and then there's a double yellow line that's painted to that. So, I think that answers all of your questions.

I appreciate it. That's definitely helpful from getting somebody to think about doing something that they shouldn't do.

I think that answers all of your questions, but I'm here to answer any more that you may have, or our team is available.

I had one question. I'm not the best with names, but isn't there one on Jackson and Cal Oaks where the sports complex?

Where Jackson terminates at Cal Oaks, yes, that is a quick quack.

Okay. And that is not going to be what this building is going to look like because that is a huge sign.

I'll let Don Shively respond to that. I think there's a little bit different architecture, but there is going to be a sign on this building.

If you wouldn't mind, could we show the rendering? Yeah.

There we go.

Yep.

This is a deviation from our prototypical design. Working with staff, we came up with this color palette with it. But the architectural articulation resembles from one site to the next site so that our membership-based model clients can recognize us and use their membership at any one of our quick wax.

OK. So when I drive down Cal Oaks, before they started building, I'm not sure what that is. It's some kind of, looks like a, I don't know if it's a McDonald's or a Wendy's.

It's gonna be a Popeyes. Oh, Popeyes, okay. I happen to be very happy about that.

So the signage that you have on the one on Jackson and Cal Oaks, when I talk about signage, that's the bump on this rendering that goes up is gonna be different.

It'll resemble this signage here that we have on this picture. I mean, we have to come in for a sign permit with you, but it'll resemble that all of our signage is very similar throughout the country.

Okay, thank you.

Yeah, I guess, so what you're saying is the green, that's a trademark basically of quick quack, but to Commissioner Rose's point and what I mentioned is that I like the fact that this was deviated and I appreciate the fact that you deviated it to look like the neighborhood, so to speak, as opposed to keeping it the standard, you know, cookie cutter, quick quack car wash. And I'll just editorialize if we had more of this as they went in to do this, that that would, It would make it a lot better amenity throughout the city.

We're very sensitive when we come into a community of what their requirements are and we work with the staff for that.

I had a question. One thing I want to say, quick quack car wash. You guys do a really great job. Your buildings always look nice. Friendliest staff out there. Being that I said that, I'm not a member. I don't have a membership. Come on. Get you someday. Yeah. And I echo Chairman Brooman's comments that I appreciate the fact that you worked with staff to change the look to match the shopping center. Question I got, one of the questions I asked earlier is, is there a quiet blower on the market than the one you're proposing?

Yes, there is, but it's not efficient. And so you might as well not even put one up.

This is... What do you mean by efficient? Energy efficient or it won't blow the water off the car?

Blowing the water off the car. And so what we're trying to do is we're trying to meet the needs. What we find really is that less than 20%, maybe 15% stick around. They'll wash their car and then take off to their next errand on it. And so what they're trying to do is really have all the water off. And what we're trying to do is keep the water on site, and if we blow it off the car, we're able to recycle that water. If it stays on the car, it goes off onto the streets, and then you have water marks down the street. We can't recycle that water. So we want to be efficient. You have sound ordinance that you require. We try to find the best blower that keeps under that sound blower without degrading the site and then making the customers unhappy with the experience.

Okay.

I'm sorry.

Go ahead. To that point, on a previous car wash that I had approved, one of the concerns was, I'll call it fugitive water, right? Where a car took that off site and onto the public street. Right. Okay.

Never thought of water being a fugitive. Well, I don't know if that's the proper term. That's a good way of putting it.

Fugitive dust, I would look to Rick. Is that what we call it? Fugitive water?

And I know you've built a number of these, and you probably have your business down to a science. And so how many cars do your models show that you'll be running through an hour?

We'll run close to... 30 cars an hour. I mean, we're projecting that we'll have 500 in a day come through this property. And that'll be about 38 an hour on it. And that means every 28 seconds that we're having one come through. We can process about five cars in our tunnel at one time because we just know how close we can get them together. and that we're pretty efficient. We wash six million cars a month.

No, I know you have it down to a science. I mean, you guys are experts in this. So with those projections, and if you're open from, what was it, eight to nine? How many hours a day will the blowers be running?

They cycle on and off. So, I mean, I would say it's pretty similar. I mean, I don't know. Every 30 seconds, as you go through the blower, it's maybe a 10-second, 15-second process as you're slowly edging out of the car wash. And then the next car is coming in behind you. So every 30 seconds, it's cycling on for 10, 15 seconds, then powers off and then cycles up again.

My only hesitancy is, I don't know the name of the car wash, but it's off of Cal Oaks, kind of by the Target, by the 215 freeway, whatever that one is. And I'll be at that stoplight, and there's a Bank of America building right across the street from it, and I'm in my car, air conditioning's running, radio's on, and I've been at that intersection because it's just a bad intersection. I'll sit there for a few minutes until I get my green light. And that thing is just blowing the whole time.

Is it a quick quack?

No, it's a different company. I hate to be compared to this other car wash. My hesitancy is I understand the noise, but it's just constant. You know, if it's running for every minute, if it's running 40 seconds of that, and I do that for nine hours a day, that's gonna drive me nuts. And if I'm in an apartment building and I'm a couple stories up and I hear this noise coming all day long like this tunnel, that's my hesitancy.

Sure, we completely understand. The Madison, the ambient noise that's coming from Madison is gonna overpower our sound on that, let alone you have the impact wrenches from the tires shop nexus that's going nonstop.

But, but the, but the noise on Madison isn't constant.

Oh, it is. It's a constant drone. Well, I mean, it's, it depends on traffic signals.

I mean, you're going to have a pack of cars go through, then it's going to be quiet for whatever time and it's going to happen again. Yeah. And from what your projections are telling me, this is more, for every minute, it's gonna be at least 30 seconds throughout the whole day. Which is good for you, it's good business, but do I want to constantly hear that noise for half the day?

But again, I have my sound engineer here that can speak to that. But again, Madison Avenue is gonna be a constant traffic.

If not Madison, the freeway. I mean, when I lived over on Calle Estancia, which is just south of Thompson Middle School, I could hear the freeway. Not during the day because of the other ambient noise, but when I would walk out to wash my vehicle Saturday morning, I could hear the hum of the freeway.

So the... Was there anything in the noise study to indicate how long the noise would be lasting throughout the day? So I didn't see anything about that.

Joel, do you know that answer? Yeah. Joel is from MD Acoustics, our sound engineering company.

So the concern is the noise impact to the residences?

The constant noise.

OK. As you can see in the model, right behind where that property line would be, it's going to be 45 dB, which is going to be about 10 dB quieter than what the current ambient noise from the roadway is. So it'll be essentially half as loud as the current ambient noise.

Was there a study done on how frequently you're getting that noise from the road?

We actually, yeah, we took ambient noise measurements. That's where we got the number from.

Is that the 1, 2, 3, 4?

No, no, that's the project noise. Yeah, yeah. So we took measurements. It's... It's in the noise study.

The measurements are for how long?

What's the duration of the measurement? Oh, yeah. So the duration of the measurement is 15 minutes. And then that's an accepted amount of time to extrapolate for a full hour. And we took that measurement at the quietest time of day. So that's a worst case scenario. So the numbers in the study here represent a worst case scenario where the blowers are on literally the entire time from opening until closing, which is a worst case scenario. It just won't happen.

So that's not an average number over the 15 minutes. That's not. This is this is high.

So this in the model, we have every single vacuum nozzle, the producer and the the blowers running. Like full blast the whole time.

Got it. OK, appreciate this.

The predator system is the quietest.

Well, he said this one quieter. But there's going to be runaway water.

It's more like your hair dryer. We're sitting out there with your hair dryer.

Let's just say that if I live next to a car wash, I hope that it's a predator system. They're great.

Thank you for that clarification.

And then we did some other, like if you're worried about the, you mentioned like the people on the third story or whatever. It's gonna be probably something in the 30-ish decibels. So it's gonna be even lower than the 45. The 45 is right at the property line.

What would be an example of a 30 decibel that we all commonly would know?

Probably something like this.

Okay.

Yeah. So 55 is, right now when I'm talking, probably about 60 dB.

Okay.

So a quiet conversation, about 55 dB. and then every 10 dB is half as loud. Got it.

Thank you for that.

Yeah, of course.

If there are no more questions, just if there's public speakers, would ask to be able to come up and offer any rebuttal that may be necessary.

Absolutely. Thank you. With that, this brings us on to the public testimony. Madam Secretary, do we have any speakers, starting with those that are proponents, opponents, and then neutral, in that order?

Seeing none.

Okay, with that, we will close the public testimony, and I'll bring it back to the commission here if you have any other final comments.

I don't have any other questions.

I appreciate everybody's time tonight, and like I said, I do like to look at the quick quacks. Not a member, but every time I go, the people are friendly.

Okay, well that brings us back to looking for a motion and a second. I'm going to go ahead and make the motion.

Would you like me to read the recommendation while you're doing that?

Yes, please.

Okay. Staff recommends the commission consider and approve the notice of exemption for infill development pursuant to the California Code of Regulations Title 14, Division 6, Chapter 3, Section 15332, the guidelines for the implementation of the California Environmental Quality Act, and adopt a resolution entitled the Resolution of the Planning Commission of the City of Murrieta, approving the development plan permit and the conditional use permit for the construction operation of a one-story, 3,588-square-foot car wash facility with associated improvements located on a .84-acre site located at 25195 Madison Avenue. Based on the findings and subject to the conditions of approval in Exhibits A and B and the operations statement in Exhibit C. And my motion, just to clarify, would include the requirement of a right-turn-only sign. Right, so we... Add a right turn only sign at the southeast exit driveway. Correct. As an additional condition of approval. Correct. Understood, Chair. Excuse me.

Carl? Looking for a, well, we have a second here.

One second. Mr. Thiessen, you have something to add?

I was just going to ask if there's any specific direction as far as how the vote needs to be done with the number of commissioners that we have here for this project.

Is that a question for the city attorney on the voting?

I'm not sure what the question is.

With having three commissioners on right now, is there a specific number of votes that we have to have in the affirmative?

Just the majority of the quorum, and the quorum here is three, so a 2-1 would be a successful vote.

Okay, thank you.

Appreciate that. Thanks, city attorney.

Okay, so I made the motion, and Commissioner Wojciech made the second. We have it electronically so that we can register our votes here on the screen, so... Let's do so.

And I'm glad I became irrelevant.

Motion carries unanimously, 3-0.

Okay. Thank you. All right, looks like, next up we have a workshop on the Auto Mall update.

Give us one minute here, Chair, and we'll get everything set up.

Give everyone the opportunity to switch seats.

All right, good evening. Good evening, Jarrett. Not a workshop, we'll just have a info item.

Okay.

Hey, I'm Jarrett Armaya, Deputy Director with Development Services.

Do you wanna switch mics, maybe?

She turned it down, I think.

Did you get it?

She turned it down.

Okay, cool.

We have no sound guy.

Maybe switch to the one next to it. Wanna try this one? Yeah, yeah, that works.

Ah, okay. Hey, good evening Planning Commissioners. My name is Jarrett Romaya. I'm the Deputy Director of Development Services. Joining me tonight is Jarrett String. He's with our, he's our Capital Projects Program Manager. So I'm really happy to join him here. Maybe new for you, Commissioner Rose, but a couple years ago, we were faced with a dilemma in our automatic parkway. We had some businesses that might have been parking a few of their cars that they were working on on our streets. We had some other activities where our fire department and our code enforcement had to spend some more time with the businesses in the area to try to encourage them to do a better time on managing the flow of their vehicles, and also the types of vehicles that were parking on the streets, so we took a hard look at that. Can I get the next slide? And just with these photos, what we were seeing was the public streets were being parked in a manner where you can see the lower image. They were pretty tightly bound. So you had the ability of not a customer to use these parking spaces, but more the businesses were tightly cramming them. And this is our public streets, our public asset. The photograph above, similar, a auto rental business was using our street as their inventory. So just a lot of things that could lead to public safety issues. If you're thinking about being a customer or a visitor to the area, you should be able to find a parking space with ease and you shouldn't have to have sight distance issues and be parking the street. But what this took was, I want to bring up Anna Pineda. She was a code enforcement officer that just had retired recently. But she began the conversation with some of these business owners to say, hey, how do we work to improve? Also, Doug Strasnutter, our fire marshal, was spending a lot of time with the businesses because we were seeing that our fire lanes were being blocked. Vehicles were being worked on, if you will, or queued. for space and that's just dangerous for our emergency personnel to come to a business if there's an incident. And so you can see where we started from. I'm going to hand over the presentation now to Garrett for a few slides because I feel that at this point our fire department and our code enforcement department have done a great thing. because my director here, David, and also our former assistant city manager, Ivan Holler, some of these ideas go back in time where they were trying to find a better way to allocate more parking spaces on the public streets, and also some signage opportunities to make sure that people could park within certain striped areas and not use them for any other use. So I'm gonna hand it over to Garrett here. And he's literally, there's some exciting stuff that he's gonna share with you in the next few minutes.

Uh, thank you for that, Jared. Um, good evening, uh, commissioners. Again, my name is Garrett Strang. I'm the capital projects program manager here with the City of Marietta. Uh, so, as you can see, uh, when a need comes up for an, for an improvement to the city infrastructure, uh, what we do is we develop capital projects to address those needs and, uh, provide, uh, better, to the public. So in this case, we were able to redo the layout for all of Auto Mall, including Hobie and that portion of Date Street. So overall, we are going to be installing 231 diagonal parking stalls, like you can kind of see the slanted ones on the south side of the street there, in addition to 134 designated street-adjacent parking stalls. So that gives us a total net increase of approximately 120 total stalls throughout those three corridors, both Auto Mall, Hobie, and Date Street, all three. So general items of work. Originally, we thought that we would just go ahead and remove the existing striping and just install the slanted diagonal parking stalls as they are. But we decided, with a little bit of help from our city manager's office, we decided to go ahead and revitalize this area, this corridor, given that it's a a high revenue area of our town with the auto mall. So we decided to go ahead and do a full slurry project for these three streets, basically revitalizing the asphalt and revamping the overall appearance of the street for this corridor. We'll have a much blacker look to the street and we'll have the fresh striping and it'll look like a brand new corridor for the most part. So scope of work for a typical slurry seal project, we'll remove the striping We'll do some surface prep, some street sweeping, weed abatement, and a few other things in prep for the application of the actual slurry seal. And then from there, we have to wait about three days, do some more periodic street sweeping, and then finally we get to go ahead and do the final striping layout. Just an overall advisory for a type of project like this, anytime we do slurry, it's the same process. It's the same type of application that we do on our local and residential streets. So what you will see is a level of raveling throughout the streets, which is why we'll have an increased amount of street sweeping throughout that three-day period between when we do the slurry and when we actually do the striping application. And I would note there has to be a certain window of time between when we apply the slurry and when we stripe it. The amount of traffic that we get will actually help the slurry seal cure it'll also beat down some of that raveling effect. So we have to, so yeah. So that being said, one other note is a project like this entails a lot of public outreach. Obviously we're having major impacts to a very high revenue area of town that we don't want to, to cause any disruptions with our public or with those businesses. So we did a pretty extensive outreach program for this, including, first of all, obviously we have to, anytime we have no parking for street work signs, for street work, we have to post no parking signs at least 72 hours prior to the effective closure. So that was conducted. We also did a certain amount of social media outreach on our social media platforms. And we also had staff go ahead and hand deliver informational flyers to every single business that's affected by this within that corridor. So now moving on to the schedule. So the slurry was actually completed today. So we started yesterday. We did the areas in green that you can see on this map right here. So basically have a layout. went was we kept all streets open at all times, but the street is about 53, 52 feet in width. So with that, we were able to do half the street at one time, the other half in the afternoon, and keep two lanes of traffic in both directions at all times. And like I mentioned, the top portion of Dates Street was performed yesterday. Hobie and Auto Mall were performed earlier today. puts us into that little hold period I was talking about. So once we do the slurry application, we can't go ahead and stripe it right away. We have to go ahead and let it cure, let traffic beat it down a little bit, let it ravel, and then continue to sweep it over the course of the next few days. So as of now, our striping plan will continue on starting September 3rd and 4th, so that's Thursday and Friday of next week. We'll go ahead and continue sweeping it, and then we'll stripe it, have some final closures that'll be posted by Monday of next week, and we'll go ahead and do the final striping layout. And overall, this is our overall project schedule, so like I mentioned, it covers the public notifications, the striping removals, the actual slurry applications, which happened yesterday and today, pause period before we do our striping, and then finally our striping and project closeout. And these are the two flyers that we handed out to all of our local businesses just to make them aware of the operation, and also this was posted on social media for all of our stakeholders.

Great. Thank you so much, Garrett. I wanted to just relay that this project started with code enforcement and fire. It received the help of the city manager's office, economic development, our planning director. It's just been a really, really good process for me. I THINK WE'VE LEVERAGED ALMOST EVERY TEAM AND PERSON WITHIN THE CITY. THIS HAPPENED WITHOUT ISSUING ANY FINES TO ANY OF THE BUSINESSES. I DID WANT TO HIGHLIGHT ONE BUSINESS SPECIFICALLY DRIVELINE. THEY WERE THE TOUGHER GROUP TO WORK WITH IN THE BEGINNING BUT I GOT TO SAY ONE OF MY STAFF JUST SIGNED OFF THEIR LANDSCAPE PLAN TODAY. THEY'RE PUTTING IN AN OFFSET SITE IN FIG STREET. THEY ALSO RECENTLY PURCHASED ANOTHER SITE. along one of our major corridors. And again, I wanted to compliment Scott Agajanian on our team. He did a lot of behind the scenes work to make sure that we don't just, we're not punitive. We're not gonna come after you as a business. We're gonna see if there's a way to work with you so that maybe you can expand in our town. And I took a lot away from Scott in doing that. It was a long haul. A lot of tough moments. But again, issuing fines doesn't make you a hero. Expanding a business might. And also the last guy standing, Garrett, has been the best help. Without him, I couldn't do a thing. So I just wanted to let you guys know I brought you a couple of info items and some workshops with some businesses here over the years. There's still some work to do. We're going to see how this sets. And then hopefully we'll see some expansion results. of some more businesses in the area because of it. But if there's any questions, please let me know. But we just wanted to present to you that information item for this evening.

Mr. Rose, you have any questions?

Questions, thank you for the information.

Mr. Wojciech. Comment and question. I really appreciate that because a lot of times we talk about things up here and we make decisions and we don't necessarily see the end product. And so we talked about this a while back and what solutions and it's kinda nice to see this kinda full circle. The diagonal parking spots, it's only on one side of the street? Correct. And then there's still plenty of space so you're gonna move the center divider line and we'll have plenty of space on both sides then.

Yeah, we had two of our traffic engineers, Ida and Brian. They spent a lot of time on this to make sure that we had horizontal and vertical clear space distance and also the width for the area. If you drive down there, you might find that there's a lot wider of a side than you thought before. So we're going to take advantage of that. But this will be allowing for a fire truck to whiz just by, just fine.

The opposite side of the street is going to be no parking all the way down then. Is that the trade-off, or can you still parallel park?

Actually, we're going to still be parallel parking. We might be able to put up an image on the end here. Yeah, you can see that our traffic engineers were very careful. We even are going to put some red paint on those curbs where some people have been parking. But yeah, it's going to be a good product because... I think they took a deep account into the spacing and then procured quite a lot of spaces. We think this will work, but we will monitor this closely. We always learn from implementation. There might be another thing that we can do. There's a whole other section of bottom wall that we're going to take another look at. So we may be back depending upon the public and the businesses identification.

Just to kind of add to that. So like a, Like Jared mentioned, so we will have diagonal parking stalls on one side of the street. The opposite side will have street-adjacent parking, but we do have to comply with, there's a new California law that requires no parking within, I believe it's two, 20 or 30 feet within any T-intersection or stop sign, I believe it was something like that. So you can kind of see that on the south side of this screen where there's a red kind of a red line next to the clouds. So that's what that is, complying with those rules. But yes, there will be street-adjacent parking as well.

Yeah, I think that law that you are referring to, I think it went into effect last January 1st. Speaking of that, one of the things that comes to mind, and I'm putting my cop hat back on for a second, but, and I was just looking on my phone here doing a cursory search here, obviously, The California Vehicle Code regulates what happens on streets, although I couldn't find anything just real cursory where it deals with if somebody fails to park within those designated angled parking zones or within those delineators there, it means it wouldn't be a violation of the vehicle code per se, right? So it's delegated to local ordinance to... basically regulate that and in the quick cursory search chapter 10 of our municipal code doesn't we don't have anything in our parking regulations currently that if if a big semi wanted to pull up and park or a big motorhome and just ignore the nice white stripes that you've put on to the roadway there and just park there there's really nothing that could be done about it. So what I would highly suggest is that we develop a municipal code. If we don't already have one that I couldn't quickly find that gets submitted to council probably somewhat quickly in order to make someone who doesn't want to obey the nice white lines that we've spent a lot of money on that code enforcement or law enforcement, the police department could actually cite someone for. So that'd be the kind of the step to the follow up to that so like I said, it could be wrong, but I don't recall anything like that that we had in our current municipal code and I couldn't quickly find it as I'm up here on the dais.

That's a very good point, Dennis. I'll be chatting with PD. We've been talking about the other areas like Nick Lane and stuff, so there is more work on signage. State law and local code aren't the best of both worlds.

Yeah, well, I mean, they don't typically, most jurisdictions, the angled parking might not necessarily, you know, apply to across the state, so local ordinances, my experience is local cities then have the authority to take it up a step further if we're going to deviate from the parking along the curb. you know, parking 18 inches from the curb is in violation of the, of the current vehicle code. But with the angled parking, it gives an exemption for that. But, but if someone doesn't want to, like I said, want to obey the wants to take up multiple spots or, you know, park a big truck and take up, you know, five or more of them, there's really nothing absent a municipal code to actually enforce it. There's not much we could do about it. So I would say, um, Probably want to have that in place when these new striping come down, just FYI. No, I'll do that. Thank you. Okay. Anything else? Any other comments by anybody? Okay, with that, thank you, Jarrett and Garrett. Really appreciate it. I think this is great for that zone down there. I mean, this has been a problem for, I can tell you, for 30 years, just from practical experience, and I think it's going to be an added enhancement there, especially with the auto mall dealerships, those type of things like that down there, and some of the car repair places and whatnot. With that, that will end our workshop. and we'll go to city planner comments. Carl, David?

Yeah, just we do have a couple items probably coming up in September. I'm not sure if it'll be at the next meeting or the one after, but a couple things coming up that we're working on. But other than that, I just want to compliment staff tonight on both presentations. Staff did a good job, and with that, I'll turn it back to you, Chair. Thank you very much.

Totally agree. Mr. City Attorney, Paul?

I was just trying to research your question right there. So there is a little bit of discussion in our code about being able to enforce vehicles that aren't parked in accordance with official traffic control devices. And I looked up some definitions of that. I haven't confirmed it, but it does include, in addition to signs, markings. So I think loosely it is there, but you're right that we should look at it and make sure that it will encompass what is being contemplated.

Did you find it as a municipal code? Yes, municipal code. Oh, okay. And maybe whatever section we use, there might be some applicable signage. that would help people understand.

Yeah, the signage regulation is clear. If you're parking in a manner that's inconsistent with the posted signage, that's an explicit one that's in our code. What I was looking for was something specifically related to pavement markings and parking within the designated pavement markings. And that one's a little more abstract. I think it's probably still enforceable, but we'll look into it and make sure that it meets the intent here.

Yeah, something that would make it plain to, and I'm not interested in obviously issuing a parking spot, but if people could pull up there and go, I better not do this, and it serves as a deterrent and serves a better purpose than I think that whatever works.

But I have nothing else to add, thank you.

Okay, no, I appreciate it. Thank you for that clarification. And then anything from my colleagues here?

Nothing.

Okay, with that, and... We will go ahead and adjourn unless somebody has something else they'd like to say. All right. With that, we're going to go ahead and adjourn, 7.25 p.m.