Commission - Regular Meeting

Horn. Yes, sir. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. You You feeling okay? Yeah, I sure am. I'm glad to hear that. Thank you for the call earlier today. Um Uhhuh. No problem.

For those of you, uh, Commissioner Tender is obviously on the phone with us today. She's a little under the weather. Um, so she's uh dialing in remotely, if you will. So, um, this is an information meeting only, so no need to to vote or anything, right? This is just a formal workshop. Okay. Uh, we've got the other four members here, so we're ready to roll. So, yes, sir. Mayor, we'd like to uh welcome Dr. Jessica Graham today. She's going to give us an update on our living shorelines project going on in the city of Linhaven. um she's got an update for the uh wastewater treatment plant shoreline as well as the Bayou Preserve. Um you'll see some stuff on your screen and you have some information here in front of you. So Dr. Graham,

welcome Dr.

Thank you so much for having us. Um appreciate the introduction. So today I'm just going to really talk about our um two living shoreline projects. But before I do that, I kind of wanted to take a a go a little bit back in time and talk about how we even got here. So, this is a completed restoration project in our bay. It's um outside of uh river camps that was installed by our friends St. Andrew Baywatch a few years ago. So, this is what we all like to see, a nice fun project, action done, results being seen, but there's a lot that goes into that. And so there's a lot of steps behind the scenes. And so we can kind of break this timeline or continuum into three main sections of early phase, middle phase, and late. In the early phase, the first thing we do is we talk to people about what are the issues, what are the needs. Then we get further into those identifying project specifics and then the feasibility assessment. There's a lot of projects that never move past this point because they are just not feasible. What we thought was the issue was not actually the issue. What we thought the solution was going to be is not going to work. Then we if that works, the feasibility is great. We go into the engineering and design. And there are a lot of different stages to engineering and design as I'm sure we all know. Then we get into the permitting which is always the fun process. We submit the application. We have a lot of conversations. Sometimes we resubmit the application, but eventually it gets approved hopefully, but most of the time we're waiting on these permits for a long time, years sometimes. And then eventually we get to construction. And so, as you can see, there's a lot of steps into actually seeing the resultant project.

And then what delays these even further is the funding. So there's always every single step costs money and especially the implementation and that's what we were struggling to get into this area. We were submitting projects for all of the phases together and in the past sponsors used to give funding for the entire project but because of that timeline and the permitting timeline they stopped funding the entire project at the at one go. So we have to now break things up. But we were still not competitive against projects that were ready for implementation when we needed design and feasibility. And so that's really what started the scaling up nature-based solution project. This came after Michael where we were trying to get funding in trying to get nature-based solutions when we saw that wetlands helped mitigate storm impacts more than seaw walls and were a lot cheaper to repair than the seaw wall was. And so trying to understand how we can do more of these projects quicker and move them along that continuum. So the Nature Conservancy led this effort and they did exactly those first few steps of meeting with people, talking to people, understanding the issues, identifying projects. City of Linhaven was one of those partners that we've been working with from the beginning. These they've been working through Franklin Gulf and Bay. and I engage in the Bay and Gulf because that's in our in our jurisdiction and we are seeing progress. So we are moving from the blue early phases into the orange late phases. So over time we are moving along that continuum. There were 72 projects originally identified. We are adding more every day and so we're trying to move them further and get that funding in the door and be more

competitive. And today we're going to be talking about these two. So Linhaven uh wastewater pond, there's the eroding shoreline along there. And then the Linhaven Bay Park and Preserve. If you go out there, you can see there's some shoreline erosion as well that we would like to address with installation of living shorelines. We are only at that feasibility stage very early. We want to get public feedback. We want to get feedback from y'all to understand how to move forward. And so I'm gonna hand it off to David Bell and Daniel Burr with Jacob's Engineering. They were under contract by the Nature Conservancy to help with those early stages.

Thank you, ma'am.

Good afternoon, gentlemen. Come on up. shall need our IT guy to

Harold. Technical assist center aisle, please. Did this for me earlier and then he came in and touched it. No worries. It's It's called Murphy's law. Absolutely. The rule of threes, wrong, wrong, right. What can go wrong will go wrong at the worst opportunity.

Hey, mayor. Yes, ma'am. Just FYI, the person at the podium, I can't understand one word they're saying. Okay. I'm not talking. No, no, they're not. They're not cigarettes. Yeah, Harold's Harold's doing an IT assist. Commissioner Tinder. Reaching for the hammer, miss. Yes, ma'am. It's not you. It's It's us. Yeah, we just had this working. Hey Pat,

how long would it take you to email this to me? I don't think the jump drive will work. Jacobs doesn't

I can I'll email actually everybody bear with us for just a moment for technical difficulties please your partner comes back with me

want to grab that You two can always tag team in and out as you need to.

Um, well, I'll get us started. So, good afternoon. You don't mind speaking? Speaking.

Uh, good afternoon. Good to be with you all. Uh, I'm David Bell with Jacob's Engineering. uh my colleague Daniel Burr. Um and uh yeah, we appreciate the opportunity to speak with you all and and present on this. We've uh been lucky to to work quite a bit with this Sun's program over the last four years or so, really since its inception to take a lot of these projects going from that original concept design and some of them where there where there we do see the opportunity to move them into further early stages of engineering um and getting some early preliminary cost estimates also um has been something we've been supporting and generating information that can make these projects more competitive for grant funding. So, that's really been our focus. Um, and these are two that that that we uh developed some of that preliminary engineering information and costing um on uh these two sites were were brought to us by by Jessica and um Dr. Graham and and and uh her team and uh really looking to address issues with with shoreline erosion. How can uh these living shorelines also produce some other co- benefits like enhancing um natural vegetation communities, oysters um and and filter the water um improve water quality and such. So um what we're going to show is some of that early engineering design for these two projects um and show a little bit of that cost information. Um really the idea with these two projects is, you know, nature-based solutions aren't intended to be the all-encompassing, you know, solve all of the potential erosion issues or the the challenges that they have, but they they very much complement um and can add a um part of sort of a an additional insurance policy, buy more time, if you will, and be very cost-effective

um compared to just going in and spending those higher capital dollars for things like a seaw wall. Um, and they have a lot of that community benefit also um community participation sometimes in the types of materials that are placed um at these projects. And we'll talk about some of the materials that we evaluated um for these where there may be a potential for community members to be involved with the construction, if you will, um kind of get more hands-on, get their hands dirty with the uh with the work. waiting for that for that to just pop up like Okay, I was able to hear much better yet.

Okay, very good. Thank you. You're tap dancing very well. By the way, I'm trying here. You know, have a joke or top hat McCain. You know the old school. What do you call a uh What do you call a deer with no eyes? No idea. We call a deer with no eyes and no legs. Still no idea. out of little of that naturalist humor, huh? Just a little bit.

All right. Um, well, I'm looking at this figure here on the handout. It's got the two images. Um, page two. Thank you, Dr. Graham. Um, Lyn Haven Bayou Park and Preserve. We enjoyed our time out there, um, today. Um, beautiful out there. It's amazing. Um the drone photo photograph was taken by u Mr. Daryl Budro um uh I think it was in the last couple years but there's been even more erosion um since you know uh Dr. Graham and her team has done some some really good work um doing some analysis on the rate of erosion that is happening at that site and I mean couple feet per year is I think what you all were estimating um with those rates of erosion change. So, uh, one of the, um, elements that we're looking at to slow down that erosion and and really, um, uh, reduce the the rate that that's occurring, um, is putting in these, um, living shoreline breakwater structures, uh, offshore from about a,500 foot reach of shoreline um, extending from that McKitten's bayou um, down a little bit past the uh, uh, that that large dock with the two boat boat boat slips. Um we looked at a few different materials um uh we looked at a few different materials um that could potentially be used to construct um these individual reef segments um traditional core stone limestone. Uh we also l looked at a product um that are sort of these interlocking interlocking um concrete castles if you will or blocks. They call them oyster or um reef castles and then something called um like generically it's a modular reef

sphere or oyster balls. Uh there it's a pre-cast um product. They all have different um unit prices and different ranges of cost and different complexities related to how you would get them installed. The um uh different types of vessels that might be required to bring in that material and place it. Um but we believe that uh this sort of alignment or geometry configuration of these reefs would provide a substantial amount of benefit um in reducing wave the energy of waves um reaching the shoreline and and cause which is causing that erosion. Um so we're looking at at reef structures that are about 50 ft offshore. Um they would be up out of the water about a foot above that mean high tide. So you would see them most most of the year and they're they're intended to um break waves, you know, at that mean high high tide, but also at storm events where waves may be breaking a little bit above a mean high tide. So, they're not going to solve for like, you know, that big one in 25 year storm um or that one in a 100year once in our generation type storm, but they're really meant to complement and support potentially o other measures um uh that you might take on that shoreline um and be sort of that additional layer of insurance, but they're not going to uh reduce all erosion there. So the the price range for those material for the um looking at the different um materials I know we were looking at um the limestone rubble and there's ranges for for each of those three materials kind of baked into that 150 to 1.1 that is a huge range. I

realize that um so that uh limestone rip wrap we we cost that and have additional details in the presentation. There it is, Daniel. Um, and also additional details in a much more um, uh, expanded design summary report that we provided to the to the estuary program with a lot more information and breakdown of these costs. Um, but the lime rock option 150 to 600K, the oyster castle blocks 200 to 800K, and the reef balls 300 to 1.1. This is like a rough order of magnitude. it's like a plus minus 50% plus 100% you know range that we put on that and several contingencies. So like Dr. Graham was saying earlier, very very preliminary. Um, and we uh as the design would progress and funding was was there to progress the design, those those numbers would tighten up a lot. But this sort of gives you a sense probably it's going to land somewhere. I mean, that's it's a half million dollar job, something like that.

Yeah. Um, as you can see in the rendering there also, um, there's some good references of marsh habitat in the vicinity, um, of that. And so we think that you can that there is that potential for that marsh vegetation to come back also and provide that again another layer of stability, um, to to um, absorb energy from the waves.

Want to go Ah okay. So you saw sort of like the um early concept design where we've taken this um design at this point is is we've done a site survey. We've done a little bit of um evaluation of the subsurface conditions to understand how much settling there might be. do we need to add additional materials underneath to um make sure that these things are supported? Um we don't get, you know, slumping and sloughing. Um so what we've done is, you know, it's it's to the point where it's an early schematic design and we we're able to do takeoffs and quantities and get a better price for it. Um but still pretty early in the design phase. Um, so that's that's really about where we've taken this project and that and that does support a lot the justification in the grant that you have taken it to something that is more design ready and again that helps with that competitive competitiveness in the grant um cycle. There cross-sections um with these also that are included in in the design summary report that can that I assume can be provided. Oh, and here's sort of just a um more of a cartoon representation of of what that cross-section looks like. Um and you can see it's meant to break break some of the waves um you know that are that are right at that mean high water. We think that that would be um you know balancing cost and performance is really what this is all about. You can certainly make them bigger, more rock, higher level of protection, higher level of of that insurance policy that you want, but added cost. So, it's really about kind of finding that balance.

Okay. And these are examples and some images of the different u material types that we that I was trying to describe. um the lime rock or stone interlocking um blocks and the um modular reef spheres or oyster balls which is a product if you'll go back for just a second looking at those individual spheres. I've never seen those before. Is that a kind of a new erosion control thing?

Um great question. um newish in that I mean I don't know this this is a particular this is a product called a reef ball um I forget where they are out of I think they're in the state of Florida um maybe in the last 20 years this kind of technology if you will has been has been coming on and there they're many different products and vendors um they have different shapes um they come in different sizes you know the the arrangement of the the holes is is, you know, thought through in in how it performs in attracting different organisms and critters to latch on to it. Some of this concrete material, you know, they've got like their proprietary mixture that, you know, only certain critters will come to it and it uh repels other ones. You know, you don't want the predators coming and eating the oysters. Some of them like absorb um carbon and are like great for greenhouse gases and that kind of thing. Who knows? That's their proprietary um product that they're they're trying to sell. But there's a wide range of of these products and they're um they're nice because they're pre-cast. You just sort of put them on a barge and and lift them up and and it's just their weight holding them down. They are expensive though compared to just Corey stone. But there is that added cost of trucking that material, finding a local source um that is suitable and um costefficient which minds are changing sometimes in that the availability of certain kinds of material.

Commission, any other questions thus far? No. Thank you for that. Okay. Um we'll briefly go through I think the other the other um site. Thank you all for bearing with us. Jumping around a little bit.

Oh, I think we're to the be beginning of the PDF, please. Okay. Uh, next slide. And go ahead. Hey, Living Shorelines. All right. Go ahead. Um, so, uh, two of the projects, um, I spent a good minute just talking about the Bayou Park and Park and Preserve, but, um, now we're going to be talking about the, um, the other project at the, um, the wastewater facility and, and looking at the refuge pond, the the treatment lagoon. And again, like I mentioned, the the intent here is to um reduce some of that energy from um some of these waves really generated during those orientation of these in in the bay. They're really getting catching those those winds coming from the northeast. um uh during the winter is when you know when we're really seeing um the u the annual um erosion occurring. Um it's not these are not meant or designed to deal with like another hurricane Michael type situation. So next slide. Uh we visited this site um stopped by this site today also. Where's Mr. Sure. Thank you um for your time. Um and so you know it's incredible to see how much loss of bank of that embankment um there has been in just a few years. Um I know that the the crew out there has done several repairs. There's a um a chainlink fence that is falling in. You can see the um concrete peers that are exposed. um it's still actively eroding

even with the uh the ongoing maintenance and and upkeep that they're doing. Um so it's about a 300 linear foot um reach extent of shoreline. Um sort of off the picture you can see from the top left is the direction that the that the waves are coming. That's that the longest fetch um that there is in the in the bay there. Um, so again, these these structures, these reef structures, we think are going to help buy valuable time um for that site so it can continue to operate as I as I understand other decisions are being made long term about what to do area. Next slide, please. Very similar concept. Um, you're going to see, you know, again these sort of um crescentshaped reef structures. That's a very stable um shape. um looking at placing them a bit offshore. Um these are intended to be a bit bigger than the other ones we just looked at just because of the criticality the the critical nature of that um pond behind it. Um we want to ensure that the structures are able to um manage larger waves if you will um because that's a very important um asset behind there that we don't want. um we want a higher insurance policy, if you will, um for that asset. Um but again, uh four structures, four reef structures. Um there's some good reference marsh, um behind um in the in the bayou behind it. So we think that there's an opportunity to get um some marsh habitat to to generate also behind those structures. You can notice the dark areas is the seaggrass. And I think the opportunity for more seaggrass to come in and and fill in around the the reefs is is also a high likelihood. I understand there's really good fishing back there and Danny is not

going to tell you exactly where his fishing hole is, but uh couple of the s we really only looked at two materials at this site. I think given the that we wanted to go a little bit higher and given the energy um at the site the the sort of interlocking castles didn't make as much sense but so looking and considering the um quarry stone and then the um the reef ball as uh as options. Next slide. Uh kind of that same schematic. You can see it's a little bit washed out there, but um the the arrow on your right, my left, well, I guess it' be your left. Um it um is the top of the that embankment. And so the these will be up out of the water. Um but again it's that that sort of that higher insurance policy if you will to help um deal with waves that that we did some preliminary modeling on to to understand what height what height is the water and how high are the waves that are likely causing that sort of repetitive erosion. So this is sort essentially designed to to that standard slide. And again, just showing the how the design has advanced. It's it the site has been surveyed. Um there's been information gathered to support permit applications. That's true for the um the other site as well. Um so some of that can be advanced a little bit um further or or more more quickly um pending funding. Um but again, you can see sort of that preliminary layout that's that's proposed. Um I think just one more slide looking

at cost. So again um bigger reefs they're higher but they're fewer of them. So it's overall less material. Um the rock somewhere between 150 and 550. The reef balls between 200 and 800. You know I'd put this one right, you know, average right in the middle 300 350 something like that. But that would be further refined through through the typical design process to narrow up that. Um I think that may be it. We're happy to take um questions. I know we went completely out of order, but thank you for bearing with us. Happy to take any questions.

So has has there been any funding opportunities for the resilience Florida uh money that's out there? Do you think this is a viable candidate for that? especially the wastewater treatment plant. Uh maybe not so much the Bayou Preserve possibly. So there's different buckets for Resilient Florida and because you need final design and permitting, you're not at the implementation stage yet. They do allow the preconstruction, but the match is higher and you guys do not qualify for match waiverss. So it may not be the best pot to go after for the preconstruction, but definitely construction.

Do you have any recommendations on the most viable pot we have? So we did put these two projects in for NIW's National Coastal Resiliency Fund that was due last month as a letter of intent. We'll hear back in May if we get invited for a full proposal. If that's the case, then we'll work towards the letters of support and really working it up more and then we'll be able to submit those. I think they're due in June, mid June, hopefully. Um, I think these are right up their alley, but we did put these in previously and did not get asked for a full proposal. So, you just never know.

And not to put them on the spot, but would it help if the commission provides a letter of support to submit in addition to? Absolutely. And that would be a request if we're asked for a full proposal for sure. Any question, commissioners? So, let's say there's a possibility that we go and move our wastewater treatment plant at some point, right? Would this still be an area that you'd want to add?

Yes. I think your risk tolerance would go down. So, no longer having that asset there, you would be able to maybe have lower reefs because you don't have to break as high of waves in order to protect that asset. But this is an actively eroding shoreline and whether that is there or not, it will be eroding. So, we did some analysis. It's in your handout on one of the pages that says shoreline erosion post Michael. You're getting a foot of erosion a year for that site alone. So, it is going to erode whether that asset is there or not. So, I would if you turn that into a recreational asset, you definitely want to protect it. Chris, uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but if we moved the sewage water treatment operations elsewhere, this would likely, this particular site would likely become a pump station, right? To

Well, the pump station would be up towards um would be at the gate. So the area where the storm water pond or where the um reject pond is now would likely become green space and we would turn into you know a park with an amphitheater or something like that. Um so we would still need to protect that shoreline. Um but the pump station would be up closer to uh Missouri. Is that Missouri or Montana the first street there? Lum, if you will uh work with our good city manager here to draft a uh a letter of support, we can certainly review it. And absolutely.

Dr. Graham, may we also hijack your presentation easels and display them in the lobby for a week or so for those the public that couldn't couldn't make it. Um that way we can showcase that.

Absolutely. So on these easels and in your handout, it's just some information. And so ecosystem services, it's beyond the protection of your asset, the nutrient storage, the carbon storage, all of that information comes from research we're doing in this bay. So it would be happening here if these projects were to be installed. And then the other one just shows examples of materials. So we've worked with the city staff for a while now and some of the impact or some of the feedback they gave us was the limestone or the reef balls. Just a few, you know, pros and cons on that handout when you're considering how you want to move forward. Cost is one. Adaptability is another. So, reef balls are less adaptable to things like sinkage or uh sea level rise or any sort of changes. You wouldn't be able to top those off. And so, just things to think about um when you're going through. And we'll be looking to you to tell us what materials you want to do. We won't make that decision. They're your reefs once they get there.

Well, thank you for that. Commissioner Tinder, do you have any questions, ma'am?

No. And just double checking with the rest of the commission. Any other questions? No. Would you Oh, I guess one more. Would you be willing to give a recommendation on what's material at some point? We can. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Well, we sincerely appreciate you, doctor, for you and your team. Sorry about the Murphy's Law with the IT presentation. You know, that happens. Um, but it is what it is. It was great info. Thank you so much. And I just want to say thank you to the city staff. They are extremely great and have been very responsive to these projects and all of my requests, even when last minute. Thank you so much.

Thank you, ma'am. All right. So, that wraps up. So, so we have until 5:30 for our city commission meeting. And uh there are no other uh discussion points with this workshop. We'll ready break. Yes, sir. All right. Cool. Thanks every