Commission - Regular Meeting

Right. Easy.

All right. Good morning, everybody. We'll go ahead and get started with our uh second monthly town hall. Want to welcome We've got several of our key regulars here. Appreciate that. We got former Mayor Walt Kelly here with us this morning. 91 years old, still kicking butt and calling it a good time. Appreciate you being here, sir. Um, again, this is for those of you that were here last month. This is a very open, informal kind of forum where we want to hear from y'all and what's on your minds and hearts. So, this is literally kind of an open floor event. Commissioner, city managers, do you or city manager Singular, do you want to start off saying any opening comments before we get started?

No, sir. I will say um the town hall email that we've got um we have not received any any messages uh via that. We do know we had um probably the most hot topic may be a boil water notice um but working through that. Would you like to go ahead and give an update on that, sir?

Sure. Uh we should have the first clearance back and be good to go today and the second second one for the one for um Baldwin and the Minnesota Avenue Mosley um Avenue or Mosley Drive area. uh cleared up tomorrow. Um one of those issues just you know staff turnover, staff change. Um Miss Stephanie Nickel who typically would do our toddler notifies was was not here. So kind of fell a little different um procedure of how we do things which is probably why several people did not get the notification. Uh the maps were posted on Facebook as as usual. Um but just normal normal hiccup. Um but hey, if that's the biggest issue we had for the week, we've had a successful week. Um the guys were able to get both water water main brakes repaired and back in service. Um they started about midnight on the one for um the first boil water notice that affected east of 389. Uh they started at midnight. They wrapped up about 5 4:30 5:00 a.m. Um went home, got them a nap, and most of those guys were back to work about 7:30 that morning. um worked all day yesterday. Of course, they were hoping to get out of here Friday at lunch and had another water main break. Um so that didn't happen. They were able to get that repaired within the hour and get everything back on and our water operators will finish pulling the samples and we'll get the clearances and be ready to roll.

Thank you for that. It's been a busy busy week. Uh the our fire department's also been supporting two major fires this week. Uh fire chief, would you like to give a quick update on that, sir, if you don't mind? Not that we're sorry to put you on the spot, but you address this. We uh we already talked about it this morning. I'd rather them hear it from you than me.

Um yes, we had two major fires this week that uh we responded from mutually with the county. Um we had the one off Harvard Boulevard um which is contained now. It was about 4 acres in three different spots. Um we had five agencies out there with um sheriff's department helicopter and the forestry division and their bulldozers. Then last night we had one off of 2321. Uh it was 20 acres. Um we evacuated all of Titus Road. Um didn't need to fire trucks on that, but we had them staged throughout the whole road. Had five agencies out there last night till about 10:00. uh forestry got it contained. Uh when we left it was about 75% containment. Um it's going to happen again. We need rain. The humidity levels are down about 32%.

Um and the winds are causing a lot of havoc right now. So both fires are under control. The first fire between the county and us, we saved uh four homes. And then last night we had about 15 people evacuate and none of their homes were burning either. So, between all the agencies, we did a really good job of saving people's properties this week. Good on you, Chief. Uh, how many of our city firefighters responded to these two events this morning?

Last night, we had one truck there because we had so many agencies with trucks there. Um, and then on Tuesday, same crew, same shift, uh, we dumped the city all but one truck u for that fire. Um, it was in a county pocket within the city limits. Um, so we responded that pretty quickly. last night. It was just on the other side of the city limits, a little bit farther, but they needed they needed help. Uh I think the county had nine or 10 of their trucks there along with the Navy base, Springfield, and us to help out. So, the mutual aid agreements and the help that we've been getting across Bay County um is great working together. Um but we uh we'll just keep doing what we do.

Pray for rain. Pray for rain today. appreciate all questions for commission. No, thank you. Appreciate all you and your team do. Yes, ma'am. Are we doing anything proactive like not using the um reuse water all the time and mowing is a big deal too on like on the sides of the roads where there's a lot of um rocks and debris and stuff that can cause sparks. Um and what is the doing in the city limits to start protecting. What do you mean by not using the reuse? Well, last year we ran out of reuse water.

Well, we don't run every day it can run out if we're especially when a time like this, right? But we're constantly filling. So people, you know, we've got about 800 residents that use it and then we use on the medians and the ball fields. Um so we constantly, you know, empty and fill um non-stop every day. Okay. So we're using regular water. We're using irrigation water then. No, if they're a reused customer, they only use reused water. If the reuse tank goes empty, then their irrigation doesn't work for the day until it gets filled back up. But how is it filling up that is what I It's from the wastewater plant. Okay. Untreated? No, it's treated.

Okay. But when I water at my house, it's still the same thing. You're not only reuse water. Well, I just remember last year the tank kind of ran dry. Well, it does that on a daily basis in times like this where people are trying to water their grass and water the sports field. Do you limit the times that they water their grass? We do. We've done that before if we've ran into an issue, but we haven't ran into that issue so far this year. So, the medians on 77 are getting water. Yes, ma'am.

Okay. But the um the mowers and stuff on dry grass, what sparked in a fire. I mean, we're still having to mow if it's one of those catch 22 things. If we don't mow, people call and say, "How come you're letting the grass grow?" And if we But nothing's grow. I mean, like on our road, nothing's growing on all I'm talking about. Yeah. If there's things not getting watered, then it's not growing for sure. Yeah. So, are y'all not mowing those kind of things? I mean, they all mowing when when it's growing. For sure. I

mean, if there's the the storm water crews are out there with their bush axes mowing whatever ponds and ditches and rightways and then, you know, the parks guys are mowing their normal the parks and the rideways and the medians. Is there anything in the city? Just know that we're on our burn band. Um, be careful if you're, you know, don't flick cigarettes outside your windows. Yeah, that's another I like to flick them another um just you know even though that we're inside the city limits we are under a burn and uh just don't know it's just the biggest thing is it's we need I mean we can we can take all the measures

and put all the everything in place that we can but some people are just going to do whatever they want to do. So all we can do is respond to the calls and do the best we can and get the information out for the people. So, let's do some Facebook post that maybe don't we can do a campaign at the fire department and we can up our our information starting on Monday. Yeah, I know all the things but some like you said don't care. No, we'll we'll we'll start pushing out more information. So, we're under burn but Haven is basically always under correct. You're not supposed to burn. No, we just reiterate what the county is doing. Even though what, you know, all year long we're under a burn ban, right? Can't burn within the city limits,

but we just reiterate it's, you know, it's countywide, it's citywide, so we just keep putting that information out, fire chief, we appreciate you and your team, sir. Yes, sir. Thanks. Thank you.

All right. So, y'all got an update on the the water issues we've had this week and the fire issues. What's on y'all's mind? Yes, sir. Good morning, Mr. Lford. Good morning. Thank you all again for doing this. Um I I think again there's some new faces here and uh we're able to see some and hear some new some new things. Um, so we had a joint workshop on non-avalorum assessment and mind you I'm coming to you today as Corey Langford the citizen not Cory Langford the charter review committee chair well address

uh thank you I appreciate it. Um so one thing that I I I would ask you all and I know I know it's on the agenda for this this week uh to to to continue discussing this from the commission perspective. When we had the joint workshop, there was a lot of things that we presented in section section six. There were some of those things were long burn items. Some of those things were highly debatable items and how we how we fund and what do we do with non-avalorm assessments. Some of those things were easy kills as well. All right. And so I feel like that, you know, you guys did a great job with taking the seven items out of there. That that's a start. Okay. I wanted to present to you another one of those easy kill items. All right, we're just going to eat this elephant one bite at a time. Okay, let's don't try to eat the whole elephant. We tried to eat the whole elephant the other night at the at the workshop. Okay, here's an easy kill item that you all can do that will number one tell the citizens, hey, we're we're here to support you. We hear you and we want to protect you. All right. Number two, it's not going to cost the city anything. Doesn't cost the city anything for you guys to do this. Okay. What I'm talking about is limitation on annual increases of non-avalum assessments. Okay. There's precedent already in place for a fire assessment, a non-abboral fire assessment. There's there's a there's a process that's in place that says how much you can increase that every year. Okay? So all we're all I'm asking for is you to just use what's in place for the fire assessment and then just put it in place for the non-avalorum assessment. Okay. Last year my nonavalum assessment on my house went from $91 to $172. That's not $172 is is I don't have any problem paying that. Okay. What I want to focus on is the 89% in annual

increase. All right. That's unrealistic. Okay. So, here's what I would like for you guys to discuss on Tuesday when you discuss the seven items. I want you to also look at the limitation on annual increases. That's all we want as as public as taxpaying citizens of Glen Haven, just like you all are. We just want you to tell us, hey, this is this is the amount that we that we're going to incre we're capped at this increase every year. Okay? You have to do it in Avalon taxes, but right now the citizens are been over the barrel as far as how much you guys can increase our non-Avabolon assessments.

What you're talking about it was we we changed the formula, did we not?

We changed the calculation. We changed the formula. It created that differential, that variant, that variable increase for some people. And we did notify everybody. We had meetings. We had workshops. But it's still it's you don't get the sticker shot till you see the difference. I get it. But we did Sam put a lot of work into it. We we we called the consultants back in. I mean, we we went through the best we could and and and re we restructured the tears is what we did, right? And and we notified everybody. But, you know, you don't you don't see it until, oh my god, you know, it's a big difference. I get it. And and going forward, it shouldn't be that way in the system it's in now cuz we're not we it it ended up being a jump. And I I mean, I'm not defending it. I'm not defending it. But it was just that it was a formula change and we we kind of had to go back to the drawing board. we the city spent a little extra money cuz this was a year where you were just going to see the the the standard increase and it wasn't. So, uh you know that's that's all I can say about that. Just just no in no defense other than the formula was changed. So, we kind of went we kind of went two step backwards, you know, and re re redid the the rules, so to speak, you know, and it did create a little bit of a it's painful. I know. I mean, own two properties, I'll pay my taxes, you know, and and and you know, there's there's people that there's people that don't, you know, and but but then, you know, because and and then they but they still have to pay the the non-aval and it's it's painful to folks. I get it, man. I I I I

see it every day, you know. I see less people in my restaurant. They're they're tightening their belts, you know. I see more to go, you know. It's just one of these things that we got we got we got to watch. We got to be mindful. Yep. And I I appreciate that. And what this is going to do is prevent that from happening in the future. And and you know, it's it's one thing to say, well, we told everybody, you know, it's another thing to say, lock in on on, you know, no more increases. Just meet us halfway. That's all we're asking for. Give us something. Give us something that

Now, there's built-in increases within the system of the of the of this nonavalorum tier program, right? Is it is it is it fully mature the the nonavalorum tier process now? Is it going up year by year or do we vote on that every year? I mean, you have to vote on every year, but

but that is so we've been trying to get that for 5 years so that we if we had stuck to the original intent. This would be year five and we would be at our first break even. That did not happen. So, we've been playing catch-up every year because it didn't happen. Um, so if we continue on the process that you all approved last year, then yes, it will have a slight increase every year instead of having the significant increase like Mr. blankets referring to. I I'll say that a bit trying not to say anything because

I got it. So, um I think it was like February, March of last year. I I had a presentation. I figured it would I'm not saying all my ideas was exactly what we need to do, but I figured it would spark conversation and it did nothing. It just went to the wayside. M and I even mentioned that we go to four tiers. What you just said is exactly what going to happen and that's what happened. And I'll just leave it at that. Commissioner Tender, you had a question. I was just going to ask what percentage is is it uh being raised a particular percentage every year? It's what all you all vote on.

Okay. What percentage did it go up last year? I don't remember. It wasn't a percentage. It was the a whole tier process that changed 89%. Mine was a 100% increase from 174 to 350. So there wasn't a set percentage increase. It was the tiers changing. Yeah. What did yours go up, Gary? What's that? What percentage did yours go up? I don't have the percentage, but it it jumped over $100. Yeah, mine did. Well, and can I say something that has nothing to do with this, but I want to say it before I forget it. Thank you, Jamie.

I just found out from Chris the other day that that darn water thing we had to put in at almost $1,000. We have to pay for that every year. I had no idea thinking that we had to pay every year to have it inspected. But Eva and Eva, that's a state rule. Yeah. See, that's crazy. Backflow preventers. What you're talking about? Yeah. Commercial is every year is what she's referring to. Yeah. But your point's well taken. Thank you. No, thank you. Yes, sir. Come on up, Gary.

Look like you're doing better. Doing much better. Glad to see you. Um, I guess you could call me Corey Jr. Why are they talking about the same thing? Yeah, you got better hair do than I do. Between the hair and the beard though, it's a great combination. Yeah, there you go. There you go. Uh damn.

Last time I I brought that up, but I went back and I watched the strategy meeting that you all had and I really appreciate that meeting because that enlightened me a lot on the storm water issues. I didn't realize the magnitude of that that we have here in Lyn Haven. So that that was great information and I apologize if my comments, you know, might have struck a bad note with anybody, but you know, I understand it better now. But where did Pat go? He's getting coffee from food. You mentioned that everybody was notified last year of this increase. I didn't get a notification. How was we notified? So stand out we any anytime we change the the process

Uhhuh. we have to send out a letter. So every in your um oh my the the form that comes from the tax collector um it goes out like that. So every household or every parcel gets that notification via mail from the tax collector. That's right. Somehow I missed that. Yeah. It was probably on the trim notice. Yeah. So you know that trim notice we get every year is and it's not just ours it's the schools the county the one I put in the shredder that's probably why so and many in that in your defense many people don't look at it no I I saw it so okay thanks I didn't that's how it's notified

I my notifications when I got my tax bill yeah so anyway u just I appreciate not do we know what it's going to be this year what percentage we're even we haven't got of that conversation yet but I mean if it's if we stick to the plan I mean the commission still has to vote on it but there will be an increase um but no I don't have a percentage I got a lot of money buried in my backyard but I'm running out what's your address

you know you know uh the other thing is you're you're debris operator I just can't say good enough about that person uh I don't know how new they are but this person is as a younger person. I tell you what, they act like they've operated this thing all their life. I mean, the way they operate that boom is just incredible to watch. And not only do they pick up your debris as if that boom, that bucket can't get it all, they get off the truck and they pick it up and they throw it in the back. And I've never seen that done before. So, I just like to say thank you, commend them, whoever it is for our area. I'm on Inest 1404.

Thank you. Yeah, they've done a really great job and I just want to bring that up. So, thank you all again for doing this. I appreciate your time. It's very helpful. Thank you. Thank you, Gary. Thank you, buddy. And Gary and I, for those of you that don't know, we served at the Pentagon together what, 25 years ago? Yeah, something like it's been a minute, but yeah, seems like yesterday.

It does. Um, but thank you, sir. I appreciate your engagement. What you and Mr. Langford both spoke on is uh the nonadvalorum the storm water tax. Uh for those of you that watched the strategy meeting we had you'll see that we had very lively discussions between and they were respectful but they could be turents. We have some fundamental philosophical differences. Everybody recognizes we live at sea level right give or take. We're always going to have these drainage issues. And for a long time um it was expensive to do to begin with. And so when you defer maintenance on major infrastructure projects like this and you get to the point it's critical mass before you start doing this, it's going to be a lot more expensive. And it's just the reality of today with inflation and everything else. We all recognize the need for storm water, but how we properly fund that, that's where it gets kind of hairy, right? Because everybody's kind of got a different view and, you know, take. But we'll we'll figure it out. We got folks like y'all, you and Corey especially. I really appreciate the the inputs and the thoughts and the hey, why are y'all doing it like this? Have you considered this? Uh because we're five people that love Linhaven and but we're five people. So the better ideas that we can get and mix in, we can consider it and hopefully we come up with the best recipe possible at the end of the day. So thank y'all for that. What else y'all got? I know the bashers have things.

Johnny, you're quiet this morning, man. Don't speak. Oh,

what else y'all got? Mayor Kelly, do you have anything on your mind this morning, sir? Good. Good. Well, we appreciate you being out with us this morning. kind of cool to have you here with us in the auditorium named after you for your 18 years of mayor service and four as a commissioner, right? 22 years of service. 20 23 years. Wow. Thank you, sir. I had a good group of people, too. Did everyone called my name to be up here? Yep. And 22 years of military service before that, right? Was it 22?

24 days. Not that you were counting. That's awesome. Yes, ma'am. Come on up. Good morning.

Enjoyed the paper golf course this morning. Thank you very much. I've already told everybody we need a bath, too. But I don't even know if I went or not, but I had a great time. Um, I wanted to talking about the property tax and I don't want to totally misinform anyone, but I think there might be some of you that either owned a home in Florida and now you have purchased another home anywhere in Florida. Um, I'm a realtor and I just recently learned about this. If you look on your trim notice or the property appraiser site, go down to the bottom under your homestead, there's a line that says save our home. That's a portability that you are allowed to take with you from one Florida homestead house to your next Florida homestead house. So even if you move within the county, as long as you move within the state and you claim it within 3 years, and the simpler form of it is when you buy your house, the taxes can only go up 3% a year, your property tax, but the value of your house may go up a lot more than that. The difference is your portability. You can take that difference with you to your next house and reduce your property taxes. So if you know anyone that has moved with in Florida within 3 years, they can go and apply for that. But after 3 years, it's too late. And it goes up and down every year. But it may be helpful for people that are really looking at their

Sorry if you didn't know. That's good information. I either

Thank you, ma'am. One other thing on the the whole storm water thing. Uh in the background of this is a state level issue that is well beyond the control and span of the Linhaven city commission and the city of Linhaven and that is the governor's initiative to do away with advalorum taxes for homesteads. Uh I actually watched an interview that he did yesterday uh as well on this. So he and the state legislature are not on the same page yet. Um, we all talked. We went up and visited in late January with our delegation from Bay County as well as other key leaders across the state. And the Senate and the House aren't even on the same bill on the same page yet. Um, and they want to take the governor's lead, but they also have a lot of ideas. They had like 10 different bills at one point in the state house, and the state senate had not moved yet. They were taking more of a saucer cooler, let's wait and see what happens approach. Uh but at the end of the day, a special session is coming up here very soon. The governor's already called and they're going to be dealing with this. And hopefully the two houses of the state legislature and the governor can come together and figure something out. Everyone tends to agree that for the grandmas and grandpas that have been paid pretty much their whole life. When you hit a certain age, grandma and grandpa's paid enough taxes, let's let's give them a break, right? But beyond that, it's a big question mark because everyone recognizes there are no free lunches and if you take away the non-advalorums, how are you funding police, fire, your core city services? South Florida does that in a lot of places with user fees as well as the non-advalorum. So those are if you take the main mill rate advalorum out of the the city or the local municipalities quiver um that's all that's left and you still have to fund certain things. So at a point you're robbing Peter to pay Paul right you're still getting tax but now instead of abalorum it's not Avalor's

arch user fees and and all of that. So there's this big question mark and so as we discuss storm water being very mindful of the fact we don't know what a valorum versus nonavalorum versus user fees are going to look like statewide yet and even when the state legislature and the governor agrees on what's going to go before the voters this fall on a referendum it has to get 60% to pass constitutional muster. If that doesn't happen that proposal is dead. So, a lot of unknowns yet and unfortunately our budget process this year is going to happen while all of this is playing out at the state level. So, those are the that's the other big question mark or the 800lb gorilla in the room. We're trying to wrestle with as well. So, regardless of how we do this, I figured I'd throw that out as well for those of you that might not be following state level politics. It's a big thing statewide with municipalities across the board. Yes, ma'am.

The good news is the citizens don't support and I listened to a Tallahassee um legislature report and most citizens do not support doing away with taxes. You think it'll like I think it's like 85%.

Because they know that their because they know their services will suff. So, I haven't seen that, but I've seen three or four statewide polls by reputable polling companies that typically do like the statewide races, and they've pegged the support for this once the voters find out that they could lose their local services, fire, police, rescue, or the taxes would be paid other ways, but they still have to pay the same stuff. Approval of this initiative falls to like 52 to 54%. So, below the 60% threshold, so who knows? But a poll is a poll, right? So yeah, and campaigning for that hasn't even really started yet. Either way,

I think the information is getting out that it will you may not have police or you may not have some of those other things that are so important to citizens, toilet flushing, that kind of stuff. I think when they get good information out, I I think the citizens will not support. You can't do away with one funding source and expect to either one not lose services or not pay it somewhere else.

Yeah. There. So, this is the way I I look at it from when we went to Tallahassee and stuff I've been researching online and talking with um some other people is if this happens, there'll be a tax shift. It's a matter of where will that tax shift happen. And the only way that I see um this being beneficial for Floridaidians is if somehow you can shift the the tax shift goes to people that don't live in our local area, you know, like people that come and visit us. Um if you can shift it that way somehow and still be able to provide all those city services and bring in the revenue that you need, it could be beneficial. How does that formula work out? I have no idea. have no idea. But this is what I'm worried about. I'm worried about if they were to do this. Um, and we've already had many discussions about it since we've been here about uh non-abalorum. I'm worried that we would have to do more more nonviaborum because I'm not a proponent of doing more of them. And uh and how does that hurt people? Well, the this there's certain people that um are tax exempt from property taxes. Those people will end up having to pay nonavalorum. So, it actually hurts them

and that's what worries me. Or sir tax. But but yeah, you bring up a good example like we have the uh is it the half cent sir tax for our gas, right? I'm a proponent of it. And the reason I'm a proponent of it is people that come and visit us, they pay it and they help pay for our things, you know. So, our legislature has a funny way of figuring stuff out. Yeah.

Um, you know, being in the restaurant business, just an example. I mean, I I when when I when I owned a restaurant originally in in Florida, you have to pay Yeah. Um, when I worked for a company and managed restaurants, I didn't know the actual accounting end of things as as this far into it cuz I didn't pay the taxes for the units that I worked in when I ran when I ran Ruby Tuesdays. But when I had my own restaurant, every uh, and it's been repealed since, but this is this is going back. The legislature at a at a midnight hour passed a sir tax on alcohol. So as you purchased beer and wine and paid your taxes, you know, and and and bought it, there was an additional sir tax on the quantity of alcohol and you had to pay that like monthly like a sales tax. You had to do an equation on how much alcohol you purchased by gallon, you know, and and then you had to pay a tax on it. And over time it got repealed. It got repealed by a third and a third and a third. But but the legislature needed to grab some money at one point and start taxed alcohol.

So, you know, tax services and you couldn't really pass that along to your to your guest. You just had to it was part of doing business, you know. So, but the one other thing I want to say about the property tax thing is the what I got when we went to Tallahassee and from what I've been reading is that doesn't include school taxes. No, that that's still going to be on there. So, they're talking about a search charge. Right now, the state gets about 40 cents a gallon on gas. The state collects on gas. Yeah. So every every time you see it, it's 40 cents goes.

And the folks that are typically exempt from paying adorum taxes, those are your 100% permanent total disabled veterans, the widows or widowers of first responders killed in the line of duty. And there may be a there may be another category or two I'm not thinking of, but those are the main ones that immediately come to mind. And it only applies to homestead properties, right? It's not commercial. It's not second homes. It's not investment property. It's just your first home. That's what I mean. That tax shift will probably go more onto them. Yes.

I think there's a a non-disa or there's a non-military severely disabled category in there too, but it's a fairly small defined population. Mr. just to just to add on to this. So, this is kind of what I'm talking. We've got two tax systems, right? We've got the abalorum that's regulated on how much it can increase, right? We've got that nonadalorum that is unregulated. Personally, I am not a fan of doing away with property taxes in the state of Florida. Why? Because we're attacking the regulated system. We have a system that's in place that's regulated. How much you all can increase our taxes, etc., right? when we do away with that

now you all are going to fall back to this heavily unregulated system over here. So my goal and if Mr. Griffiths and Mr. Trumbull is watching this or even better if Mr. D Santis is watching this. Attack the unregulated system first, not the regulated system because what it's going to do if you do away with the regulated system, it's going to create a vacuum for municipalities, etc. to go to that we're I talked about us being bent over the barrel before. We're really going to be bent over the barrel now. So, I know this is at the state level discussion at this point, but this is why it's so important to police ourselves and how we're how we're taxing our residents. I know we c I know it's it's a nonablon assessment. Let's call it what it is. It's a tax. We've got to police ourselves on how we're taxing our residents. That's all I'm asking for. I will say I'm a fan of regulating it, but at the same time it is regulated because we have to vote on it every year. So that's why you vote for us. You know what I'm saying? So

that is why we uh Yeah. But yes, I I would be a big fan of what you're saying where it's regulated to a certain amount per year. I do think it's important to note that that 89% increase is be like Pat Berno said that it is not going to happen this year. It can't happen because we're not shifting the tiers. It was more of a the tier one homes went a lot of the tier one homes went to tier 2 uh because the tier one section was severely underfunded. That was the idea was that you rip the band-aid off now so you don't have to do that in the future because uh storm water's underfunded. Um, but yeah, big fan of what you're saying because like I've said to you before, I don't like the non-abboral to begin with. So, if we can fix it, let's fix it. I just don't know the 100% solution yet because I mean, we've seen that this the storm water has gone down quite a bit with it. I'm not a fan of nonavalorarmms. I never will be, but we got to find the right solution. And so I do appreciate you and the charter review committee um taking a long look at it because I mean it is important and I greatly appreciate it. Uh hopefully we can find a solution because yeah my like we've talked about it but my intent when when looking at the formula was that I don't like nonavalorm never have but if it's going to be here let's make sure the formula is correct and the formula was wrong just mathematically it didn't make sense. Uh, so it was fixing the formula. So if we continue with it, it'll be more fair across the board based on square footage cuz that's what it should be anyways. But can't get the backing for the square footage thing. So we're stuck with the tier system. So let's fix the tiers. Um, but if we can figure out a way to get rid of nonadalum with a better solution, then I'm all for it. But it's going to take some time to figure that whatever that is out. Um, back to the sale level

thing. My opinion is kind of like with the uh with the the sir tax on the gas. Um if it was me, it'd be a straight sales tax because if you're struggling financially and you need to take a step back and not buy as much stuff, then you're not going to be paying as much taxes. If you're doing well financially and you can buy more stuff, you're going to be paying more taxes. I think that's the fairest way to do is a flat uh sales tax with everybody. um involved and uh that would also help with Florida as a tourism state. So we'll get the sales tax from the tourists coming in from all over the world. I think that's the best way to do it. Uh but that's not my decision. It's just kind of my thought on it.

And I think that we're limited on how much tax we can apply to on sales tax as a city. Correct. Correct. Yeah. How much if you redo the tier system again, how much does it cost for SC to redo that? It's about 40 grand every time they come to work. We don't if we don't redo it, we save that 40 grand. Yep. Not all of the 40 grand. We still need their services for that. But yes, we save a significant amount.

And when uh this kind of goes back to the whole storm water, the Avalor versus non Avalor, but philosophically, storm water is going to be a part of us at Nazum going forward, even after we're all dead and gone, our kids, our grandkids, our great grandkids. It's as core as fire and police services here realistically, right? It's just we live at sea level. It's a reality. Um we also lost all of our trees.

Yeah. Which absorbed huge amounts of water. It's going to take probably a gener well 50 years plus to get a lot of those full and matures 100 plus years. So, in our lifetime, we'll never see the same tree canopy we had October 9th, 2018 again. That's just the reality of it. Um, philosophically, storm water should be an operational department just like police and fire in my mind. funding that as a normal department with millage rate with abalorum versus nonabalorum because of the limited increase that's where the city manager and I have I wouldn't say headbutted but we philosophically disagreed a lot on this we both recognize it needs to be done but I think it should be an operational department he said there's no way we can make that work with Avalorum limitations so that's where we keep hitting the same roadblock right so when I go back to we got to figure out the best way to do this. And then it's got to be a team approach. Um, you know, it may be one of these things where none of us get what exactly we want or what we think should happen, but we all come together, we all respectfully, we do our due diligence, research, discussion, and we come up with a meet in the middle approach. That's democracy in action, right? And it's something we can live with. It's the best of bad options or not so great options or whatever. At the end of the day, we do that and then we reattack the problem again, right? And that that's governance. That's good governance. So, that's what we're going to try to do. And I couldn't tell you I don't think any of us could. I don't have an eightball with me, but I couldn't tell you how this all shake out. Uh especially with the state level referendum on taxes and all, but hopefully by next year once that's done in November, we'll have a much clearer sight picture for the shorter longer term, you know, the next three to five years. So, we'll see.

I do have one question. Yes, sir. Something y'all discussed in the past that these town halls might be a vehicle to do away with public commentary as a generality on the regular commission agendas. Is that still something you're moving forward with? Is this We tal we talked about that before notifying people that hey, we're doing these town halls. So the public commentary portion of your regular commission meetings may be done away with where you're just got something else there. Is that still the consensus? Is that still a thought? Oh, you know my opinion. I would say for me we're only on town hall number two. So I don't have any data yet scheduled. Is that right? Yeah. Yes, sir.

I think I honestly think we do these three or the third one. I I mentioned that is that we we continue on maybe do a couple more and do and then and then and then remove the public commentary portion and see how that goes. So, so we intertwined the town hall and the meetings and you know because we're not really going to get a true feel for it until we do it

right and I had I had said I thought we were going to do one of these meetings that way but if we do these this way and then say do two more you know what I mean and and and let everybody know at these two more we're going to where you're public you can still make public commentary on agenda items that that is that that's that's fine

that's the law I So, just so everyone knows where I stand, I remember when they started this in Panama City, it was actually the mayor branch who brought the idea up and I honestly thought it was a huge mistake and I was like, "Oh, this is not going to end well." And it's working out great for them. And you can see it. This is only the second one. The atmosphere is just totally different. I mean, I I feel like um I had a conversation with someone the other day about this where uh most people have a fear of public speaking to begin with and then you come to a commission meeting where we're all dressed up, we're talking business and um

yeah, we're Yeah, we're on the stage and um and that just makes them more uncomfortable. And I think and we saw this at the first one where someone came up, they didn't, you could tell they did not feel comfortable coming up and speaking, but they felt comfortable enough and passionate enough about the topic they wanted to talk about. And that really was what I was wanting to to make it into. And I I I feel really confident it's going to work. And so, yeah, I think the atmosphere is just totally different. and because you're trying to mix business with just having a discussion and it just it doesn't mix. So that's where I'm at with it.

Well, and to piggyback off of that, we've had a lot of our commission meetings lately have been pretty thick with a lot of business. You know, we've got a lot of things going on. So having the public commentary at these meetings, I think allows us to focus more on the the items we have there and stick to the business and make the meetings more efficient and clear. If you think back to last fall, I mean, we were having three, three and a half, four hour commission meetings, and it would be an hour and 15, hour 20 minutes after the pledge and the prayer before we got to the first item on the agenda. And you had all these folks coming in with their own cell phones trying to YouTube themselves. And there was a lot of theatrical stuff. There were lawyers coming in and doing threats and bravado like they were doing closing arguments in front of a judge. and you know it was just it was performance theater and ve very few of those things had anything to do with the actual governance of Linhaven. Um, so one thing I asked for when I took office three months ago was let's move the public commentary to the end because what you do and what hit me in just the meeting or two before I joined the team here, uh, one of the guys came up, he did his thing and then he said, "Hey y'all, y'all have a good night. I got to go buy groceries. Sorry, I got to go run errands." Right?

And it's like it and he even said he didn't live here, but he wanted to come talk. And I'm like, "So you don't live here. You just took this time and now you're, you know, I'm out. See y'all. Wait. No. So, if you feel passionate, if you want to talk, most of you folks are regulars. Y'all come, you engage. Um, I asked if we could move it to the end of the meeting. That way, you get to listen to everything we have to say business-wise and then there's an open form at the end. Very few folks stay and do that because if you're wanting to come get your three minutes of fame or youtubess or whatever, um you're not going to stay an hour, two, three hours and listen to our business to make that happen. That weeds out most of the wheat from the chief, right? So that I think has been helpful for us. We we have less of the performance stuff and more business stuff. Um and then this has been a definite augment. Uh, personally, I like having the open public commentary at the end as long as it's respectful and the stuff that we've been getting as of late, it's genuine stuff. I mean, it's not just out there stuff that really doesn't apply to us where we're giving somebody a public performance soapbox. So, it's doing better. We the whole tone and tenor of the meetings has changed and everything seems to flow better. A new audience, you regulars are great. Um, it continues. It seems to continually improve, right? It's not as painful as it was. And we got through the last commission meeting with 28 agenda items in an hour and 16 minutes. That was a record, you know? So, we're I think we're getting in a better groove.

I think we just need to pull the band-aid. Yes, ma'am. Come on up. I'm not good at sticking on those things. I just wanted I'm not good for I promise my children when I live in city since 1957. I'd never been to a city until a few months ago just to listen. And um I promised my children I would not speak and I just want to thank you guys for I've seen a big difference even though I didn't come. followed everything, you know, kind of knew what was going on in the city, but I just want to thank you for the positive way.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's really nice, you know, to see that. I've seen a lot of, like I said, I've lived here. I used to say I've lived in limits for 60 69 years. But um I realized that for 30 years I lived under McDonald's. And then I realized that was not in the city limits until 2001. But I I really have to work. Everybody seems to be working together. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am.

And and just so you know, um you can contact any of us. uh you know if you ever want to have a one-on-one with one of us like maybe you disagree with us on a certain issue or you want us to um yeah not just you but anyone anyone feel free to call us and I'll meet you wherever you know um wherever you feel most comfortable. 850391217 is my number.

We really do have a good team. I this commission's a a it's a good five member team and we're all different but we all love Linhaven and we all work well together. So I'm proud to call these four teammates. What else y'all got? I'm sorry, Miss Oxley. Come on up. No, I'm one of those people that don't like I can sit down or I can talk oneonone, but I just like to say I enjoy this. comfortable several reason

but anyway I'm one of those people that enjoy this and I can talk to y'all one stand up And and there again, like we did last time, we got feedback forms in the the back. If you'd like to fill them out, we would highly appreciate any feedback you have. So this Friday, Will Thompson is playing. Yes, sir. That's going to be good. The Will Thompson band. Get there early. Yeah. I'll listen from my backyard.

Yes, sir.

I'm one that don't mind getting up in front of mine. you know, they know how shy I am. U but I did just sitting there listening to the the conversation about, you know, the town halls and and and you know, versus public commentary. Um I look, I I'm I'm like Mr. Per, I want to see all the data, right? I want to see three where we're doing town halls and and and public commentary and then three, you know, where we're doing town halls with no public commentary. But here's, you know, this just just an idea to throw out if you all find yourselves in a in a sticky situation where you have to take a hybrid approach. You might think about this. Mayor, you made a good point of of holding public commentary to the end, right? So, think about if if you all were to have a a commission meeting, okay? And then after the commission meeting, there's a a 15minute intermission. You all come off the dis and you set up like this and the last hour is a workshop. So you have what we're doing now after the commission meeting, but it's less formalized. I know it's it's a long night and and everybody, you know, it's I'm not saying that I'm a fan of that. I'm just saying that if you all find a situation where you have to take a hybrid approach, that might be an option. So, just keep it in mind and and you know, I I'm I'm excited to see, you know, how informal it is. I mean, heck, I've gotten up here. Damn, this is like the third time, you know. Um, but

you know, I I think I think overall it's it's a good thing. You know, we we can debate all all day long on whether or not there should be public commentary to the commission meets or whatever, where it should be or whatever, but any way you want. I think it's I think it's a good thing the workshop. So, thank you. Well, I thought you weren't allowed to talk. Well,

did you get good? Um, this really isn't a town hall item, but while y'all are all here, I did want to mention on your next agenda on the consent agenda, there's some approvals for incentive programs for the building for the um I want to say CRA, but for the 1918 plat, these properties are not in the 1918 flat, and it's not the first time that's occurred. Um, if we're going to make this a policy, just look at it and make sure. And maybe I'm wrong, but I believe the 1918 plat ends at Illinois or Iowa. These are on Louisiana, which is further 1911. That was 11. The 1911 flat. I thought the 1911 flat was all the numbers and states.

No, no. Like we were on Louisiana, not 1918 flat. 1911. Okay. Just just something to look at be aware of because when you look at the rules it says it's got to be in the in the plat and I think that plat ends before general develop St. Cloud in just outside same street so like as a kid we played St. Now we're in the 198

still important to check it out though. CR that's what that's what so I'm probably the CRA over the CR is nine blocks. Yeah. um where the 1918 or 1911 it goes from the bridge to 17th Street and it goes nine blocks on five on one side. I don't know which which side but it's five on one side of 77 and four on the other side. So So we're good. I just I think CRA program that's your CR over the 19. Okay,

that information on my part um Is there any plan to pave the alley from the elementary school to 8th Street? That's about the only unpaid probably most widely used other than one. What are you talking about? Yes, I think Mayor I have a question. Wait a minute.

Oh, I was telling I was just telling Dave I have a question. Yes, ma'am. Um my I mean my questions are all very very important but uh since we're all being real relaxed. Uh Dairy Queen has their water there are they on a boil from Baldwin? Probably. Yes, ma'am. How far up does it go? Do you know the the boil water notice? Um let me pull my map up here. Cuz didn't it break at Baldwin by the doctor's office? So it did. Um however, whenever they turn valves off, it shut more than anticipated. Okay. Bad. Only because you can't get tea there. Just so you all know.

Can't get to it. There you So the one from from yesterday includes down 77 um from Baldwin up 77. It goes across um to Minnesota Avenue, includes Mosley High School and all of that. Okay. So, yes, ma'am. Dairy Queen would would be included in that. Oh, you had told me yesterday.

And this is this part of the thing we talked about before where uh was like the valve exercising thing or something so we didn't have to shut off as when you shut it off, you wouldn't cut it off. that related. But no, this is unrelated. This is just badass built. So if you turn this valve off, it should only turn these 10 off. And it did not. It turned a whole lot more off of that. Okay. The same valve would have had to have been turned off to make it regardless. Okay. Valve worked. It's just connected to a lot of stuff.

It is connected to a lot of stuff. Yes, sir. Well, the last uh the first town hall we had, we had about 30 folks uh participating. We got a few less this time, but has everybody gotten a chance to talk uh and say whatever y'all want to say? Cuz we don't have to stay here and stare at each other for an extra hour if there's no need. I mean, if there's good conversation to be had, let's have it. We're all here. There's donuts and coffee back here. I think you had some more questions, didn't Oh, no. I was really asking about that cuz I went for tea. Couldn't get any. They said we're on a water boil. I go that's on Baldwin. So, I was just asking how far up it went. Well, if nobody's got anything else, um I don't know if there's a topic maybe we want to discuss.

Oh, there you go. Perfect. And I know that we all got this letter from Emily. I can never spell Emily's last name or pronounce it. She's with the baseball group. You all got this in your email. I remember that. So, I don't know if everyone got the letter. I mean, I'm familiar with this. If you want me to discuss it. Um,

okay. Well, I mean, uh, she's number one, I have to say this to you. She's extremely intelligent. She is not a complainer. And if it's on here, I'm telling you, she does not stretch the truth either. But she's talking about the Allstar program we have in place. And when the kids try out the way we have it set up now, there's no point because there's they the all-star teams have already picked their players that they want. Anyway, she uh if y'all have it, please read it because it's very informative. We get that. I don't know who all she sent it to, but I haven't seen it.

It's a hit on the the All-Star deal. So Allstars, for those of you that don't know, is the I'm going to sound a little harsh here this morning, but the Allstars is the best players, you know, that have made it throughout the entire league. Um, from if you have, you know, your 12U, it's going to be your best player from each team. Um, some teams may have multiple players, some teams may have no players. It's just who the best players are um for the team or for the the division. Um the all-star teams are put together and they go to the to the tournament in Mississippi. Um it's very very expensive to go. So you most definitely want the best team that you can put together um to go and and play and and represent Win Haven and win. Um so it's I remember playing little league. I didn't make allstars one year. I mean, it's it's harsh to to not make that team, but but you definitely want to uh to go out and play and um have the best team that we can build to to go uh represent. It's a decision made by the coaches. It's not made by

It's a try out. Yeah, it's it's a try out. Um one year, she did and it was there were now back four years ago and there were people you know I don't know about last year before but there were people on they were the only girls here that went did you and there were people from multip but I think some of the public comes back to the draft in the very beginning

yeah so you definitely want you put together the all-star team from the best players that are at the triyouts, best players that have played all season, and you build a team to to go out. Um, so yes, not all not all players make it. It is tough for for some players to hear, for some parents to hear as well. Um, but we want to build the best team that we can and send the the tournament. She seems to she seems to think that the travel team versus the rec wreck team, recreational team. Um uh she says while both wreck and travel programs serve important roles, mixing the two together create more harm than benefit, especially for player development, fairness, and league balance. Um, anyway, I I hope y'all you will get it because she sent it to me and I said, "Now you're sending this to everybody, right?" She said, "Yes." So, maybe she's waiting to send it before Tuesday.

I need to check my mail. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Oh, really? Travel. I know. when my daughter was on my grand the main issue is that this isn't a Lin Haven specific issue. It's a nationwide issue is that travel ball is killing wreck ball. It just is. Um there's nothing wrong with travel ball and there's nothing wrong with wreck ball. That

I do agree that they do they should serve separate purposes though. Um, the issue is not that Justin and his team is is trying to massage this in a way that both can coingle cuz the reality is is that they're going to. But the issue is that if you have travel ball teams, you've got families that spend thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars on developing their children and then they come and play with our wreck ball girls and boys. And those wreck ball boys and girls, they don't get to play any of the good positions. They're batting ninth and tenth in the lineup and they don't really get to develop because they're p they're facing a pitcher who's had thousands of reps that can throw the ball 20 mph faster than anybody else in the league.

And it's a serious issue. It's not Lin Haven specific. It's nationwide. And we're trying to uh I mean, I've talked to Emily. I've talked to Justin. I mean, we're trying to

we're trying to figure out a way to modify it to where we can to where that doesn't happen. It really once you get past like 10 years old, the trap ball players kind of disappear because they're playing middle school ball. So, it's really like this and I think that's why this letter exists really is because there's like this from about 8 7 to about 10 years old, there's like this area where like the travel ball teams just come in and they just destroy everybody and it's not even close. And the reality is is that like their citiz if they're allowed to play. That's the I mean they are they're allowed to play. So we're we can't just sit here and be like no travel ball players,

right?

That's not right. But we got but there is a way we can hopefully modify it to where as Justin said in our strategic planning meeting, we've reached our numbers and they've done an excellent job of doing that. Now Justin's goal is to maintain. So, I think the goal here really should be let's I mean it's not even the commission's role really. I'm saying as like citizens if we can find a way to um help the sports team maintain and this may be one of those ways that we can come up with ideas to um help Justin. I don't think we should ever be anti-J because he's doing a fantastic job, but Justin's very open to uh listening to ideas. So, if there's any ideas anyone has that can help maintain the numbers because the reality is is that there's other parks that are opening up. Southport, Southport's opening back up, the county has fields. Like, we want we are the best sports program in the county and we want to keep it that way. And, uh, there are, you know, just suggestions. I don't know. But I think I just wanted to point out that the travel ball thing is nationwide. Um, it's It's I have family members that do travel ball and I love going to their tournaments. I'm not anti-t travel ball, but also we there are ways we can I don't know help the the kids that can't afford to play travel ball, don't have the time to play travel ball actually show up and actually develop. Um anyway,

sounds to me like travel ball is more about trying to improve and better yourself where the other one's more about competition. other way around. Travel travel ball travel ball is highly competitive. You're you're paying thousands and thousands of dollars to travel all over the region to play some teams play like 12 games in a weekend. And you got you got girls that are 10 years old that are pitching the ball 65 miles an hour. That did not happen 20 years ago. Mr. Tell me to sit down and be quiet. But I will tell you at um South Haven um the You know they go by the busy dean rules. It's not very

so and that's when we went that year was the first time had been in several years and wow we were not we were not prepared for the level I mean I'm not going to say prepared we were shocked the level and I'm not advocating anyway I'm just saying that's you know my daughter knows what they really are and I I mean, she competition.

Well, Emily is a coach, I guess, on and and what he just described is almost he could have written this letter um just about, but uh she's a coach in her daughter place. And I know that Emily's been in the program for many, many years. And uh you got So she's just trying to kind of even it out with ideas. Sorry. So did you get the letter? I know you did. They're saying they didn't get it. I don't I don't remember getting it either. So I don't She probably send it to me because my kids play sports, you know. So she said she was going to send it to the entire commission. I promise.

And I will reiterate that as commissioner people said it's the sport the all-star selection and all is not a commission issue. Um it is a citizen issue to to make sure that we provide every resource available to develop kids in in all sports, baseball, softball, basketball, and the refues because that there are a lot of kids that that also don't get the benefit of playing travel ball. Um so anything that we can do to improve leagues is huge, not just in the Haven, but like Commissioner Peele said, across the nation, it's a multi-billion dollar industry nowadays for traffic. Hang on, Michelle. Mayor Kelly had raised his hand. Mayor Kelly, what's the latest on the old fuel? Gosh, I'd like to know that myself

if you find out, let me know. Yeah. Yeah. Let us know to tell after I hear that. Okay. Don't have any update. Chris, don't have any any update. We have a development agreement with Marina Island, but we have no update. Who owns it now? Same owners. Same. What's his name? Uh Andy Andy Bales. Andy Bales. So, the city's done an a development agreement and it's just kind of they haven't moved since. No, sir. The owners.

What I want to say, there was one gentleman that we never thanked him for what he did while I was in office. Alan Boy called me one Saturday afternoon and says, "Mayor, what are you doing?" I said, "Nothing." He said, "Well, he and the and the under secretary would like to fly down Saturday afternoon to meet with me to take a look at that fuel depot." He came down here on a Saturday afternoon with a younger secretary and I met him in the library. I never told this to anybody else, but we went and toured it and he went back to Washington and said, "We're going to make it happen." And that's when the ball started rolling to get that old brown field area turned over to the city of Lyn Haven. And he needs to have a letter even to this state to say thank you.

Yes, sir. That's cool. We can we can certainly address that. And thank you for telling telling us sincerely and thank you for helping work that issue. Eventually that will that has the potential to be a really nice area within Linhaven to develop and make really nice really does. But I've never mentioned it before about this under secretary flying down from Washington with a congressman just just to take a look and see what was going on down here. As an under secretary, the number two of the Air Force, right? Yes. Do you remember what year that was? I can't remember the name. Do you remember what year it was, sir?

What year? What year that y'all did this? Early 2000. I think it was around 2002 or three, I believe. Okay. It's been a long time. 2002 sounds. Cuz I know we worked on it for 15 years trying to get it. Well, that's when Gary and I were at the Pentagon, ironically.

That's when Gary and I were at the Pentagon, ironically. I will I will say this that the last meeting that um a different company showed up. It wasn't the original group. a different company showed up at a commission meeting and they were talking about all these fancy things they were going to put in a hotel and and uh uh apartments over the top of restaurants and there was going to be a lot of uh peers and boating and all that and I all this is the main thing I remember I kept saying who are these people I kept asking who are these people nobody seemed to know who they And uh then uh somebody got up and asked a question of the man who was speaking and they and it was um Mayor Nelson. It was Mayor Nelson. It's been that's that recent. He said they will um he'll answer you as soon as he's done speaking. and um kind of dismissed the question and I don't remember the question. That man got done speaking and I never saw anybody run out of a building so fast in my life. He was gone. He was not answering any questions. That's the last I've heard of it. Now, I can tell you this. Andy Bales, the original guy, he was he was ran out of money and he was sticking it to people out there on 77. Stopped building houses, stopped building uh paying contractors, all kinds of things like that. Uh and the farthest I could trace the money was to Yugoslavia

to some guy that he was trying to sell it to. So I I I think it's all all up in the air. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the people that talked to us was their architects, right? That's correct. Yeah. And they and we since then, that was back when we were in the senior center, I think, what you're talking about. Yes. But since then, we've had workshops in here where the architects have come again and talked to us. The developers agreement was approved and then we then the development agreement was approved. And when was that? Oh god, two years ago. Obviously, I wasn't here about a year and a half ago. I wasn't here. Okay. And who are the developers?

Yeah, they envisioned kind of like um like what the way Seaside is where you got like residential and businesses mixed together. That's what they envisioned. Kind of like their own community. Yeah. And were we going to have to provide the police and the fire coverage and everything? They were going to build, they were going to pay for the fire station, everything that was going to go in there. But yes, we will. But we would have to service it. Yes, ma'am. Water, sewer, police, fire, everything. Can you send me the name of that development company? I'll start I'll send you the developer agreement. Okay, that would even be better cuz I don't think I was on council then. That had to be while while I was switching. Yeah. Yeah. It was during that what two-year period? Yeah.

Yeah. real quick while I'm thinking about it and then if Michelle if you or Corey want to talk again, we can. I wanted to recognize we've got three brave first responders in the back of the room. We got the fire chief that y'all heard from this morning, but we also have two of Lenhaven Police Department's finest, both newly promoted. Uh we have now Lieutenant Broen, and we have a bright new shiny captain back there as well. Um, I want to say congratulations to both of you on your recent promotion. We appreciate Yeah, we we appreciate y'all being here this morning uh to support us and all that you and your team do for the city. Sincerely,

proud of both of y'all, man. Good job. Uh, the butter bars look good on you, Broen. The double bars look even better. But uh congratulations to both of you. I have one more question. Yes, ma'am. Uh I had somebody just text me. They said, um we have a question. Are we uh we are supposed to have a birthday party at Kinsaw Park today. What pavilion are we supposed to use? The one by the water park says no parties. They would need to call the number they reserve.

Is there I I have no idea. They're there ready to have a birthday party. I don't think Kinsel is a is one that you can reserve. Kinsol then they can go anywhere. Yes, ma'am. That's what I'm going to tell them. Or you slow down. I noticed your stop sign's gone. We are having Well, I think um when we do these, we got to have topics ready to talk about. So, um unless somebody else wants to say something, I don't want to take anybody's time away from them.

But go ahead, ma'am. Sorry. Uh we have property on 77 North like for Yes, ma'am. Nothing. Oh, that one in the dirt row there. I think the intent they got it four years ago was for a wastewater treatment plant if needed or land application of reuse. Um but it's vacant. It's just sitting there. Didn't we rent that out or lease it out at one time? We did. Um it did not work out. They were going to put the asphalt plant there. Uh the county denied that and so we let them out of the lease 3 years ago. Okay.

This is 20 acres give or take. Something like that. Was that something?

We have an appraisal on it to sell it, but it's not it's not going to do anything to Right. What's the status on the GPS and speed monitor city cars the of how we track our city vehicles? Yeah, we have met with the police chief. Uh there's nothing no GPS tracker the police department is work we have it on the white fleet. Um every other vehicle the police department is working on GPS for their department. Do you monitor them? We don't monitor them. The police department will monitor their own. Currently their their GPS.

Oh yes, ma'am. Every the public works, the facilities, the parks, all of those vehicles have a GPS on them. We can pull it up on screen, see where every vehicle is, if there's speeding, if there's an issue with the check engine light and everything like that. And the history, they can look up the history, right? Oh, where they've been. Yes, sir.

Correct. a couple of of the utility brigades. So I was behind on the side of a police 213 was the number on this morning coming up 77 goes from 45 to 35 stop at the stop lights 35 he captain is in the back

21103 captain blot I'm sorry unit 21103 this morning when I was coming to the meeting from 45 to 35 and he was at 140 when we passed 39 miles but he did not slow down from the first 25 to the 35. We continue 45.

Well, I'll check you in respond to a call. Some calls are not a license audience could be a long call very situation with a license a so that I tell you the cash. But we do try to make sure that we maintain a speed limit because the car is locked and is visible and we like to set a good example as well. That could have been Lieutenant Groen on the way here to make the coffee. He was on top of it. But yes, the other coffee.

So I'm looking at sometimes there we need to get there expeditiously, but we also don't want to cause a host situation alarm because every we may get alarms at one place, but that one time it could be a real alarm. We always feel the same. Yeah, I'm just saying that he'll look into it. Would you just make sure you have her number, Captain Bl?

I just want to say it was extremely impressive yesterday afternoon when I saw you and the chief at the corner by Walgreens and you're talking to a guy on electric bike. I assume. Yes. Yes. That was very impressive. I go, "Now, this is some hands-on police work here." Well, he was uh he was he was minding his business. He was doing the proper thing, but yeah. At the same time, you know, we want to try to be proactive and and introduce it to things to people who were not aware of something. Yeah, it was very,

if you wouldn't mind, not to put you on the spot, but could you address the the ebike post and everything um that to kind of give some background on the reason for posting that and and the issues that we face? Well, the reason we're posting those um different public announcements is because we want to make sure the public is aware of what's going on. Electric bikes are not brand new, but they're getting more popular. And they're not only just for bicycles, are getting popular for little mini bikes and little scooters. Anything that's motorized is starting to get more and more popular and all different ages are riding it. So, some of the parents are not aware of the laws. Um, recently there was a bike over in Chef Park that the city manager was out there on one end of the park and I'm on the other end trying to crowd a young dumpster up and we were um through our efforts and our sneak attack we were able to get them. Um, but they didn't realize that they weren't supposed to be there. Of course, that's what they say. They don't realize here but he was popping wheelies and um

Wow. thing right here. So what we try to do is put that information out because we have to enforce certain things. We have to enforce everything whether it's any type of crime, but we want to try to prevent it as much as we can. The goal is prevention. But that's what the electric bike. Where are these electric bikes and electric scooters allowing? Well, they're allowed just about um they're allowed a lot of places because if they travel 28 miles an hour, that's that magic number 28. Okay. So, they're not the bosses. Okay. If you see them running up and down the streets, yeah, the kids on those little motori

I wanted to tell you something funny. We um We were here when the kids were riding bikes in that pond right there doing loops around that pond. So kids will do anything. They will and these are kids and they we don't want to take everybody's joy, but we want to protect them as long as they can. That's right. I like the golf carts, but there need to be some attention to those because young children are loading them up and they're riding all of them down with young people's driving. Yes, sir. So if someone calls us, you know, unfortunately we're we can't be everywhere at one time, but together

Well, if you're under 18, you had to have a learner. Yeah, there was a uh recent Facebook post and I think or subsequent comment to another post saying, you know, I don't know, this guy was saying that, you know, Lyn Haven police thinks that there's laws, but there's no laws. So, can you just kind of explain, you know, the the category in which electric bikes fit into, whe they're motorized vehicles or they're not motorized vehicles? Is that that at the length level? Is that the state level? And kind of how you all

Well, it's going to be a state level. We don't Monday police department we don't dictate the law we don't form the law make the law so that's going to be a legislative type situation where so when this state statute implements a law it gives us guidelines it gives us penalty enforcement and how to enforce that law so that's how we go so it's all state level it's nothing limiting police department so we get the statutes we get um updates July and October different laws that come out so then we have to enforce those laws a lot of times we get up first. We want to educate people as much as possible with warnings as much as poss. Well, I mean I I can't tell you about all the legislative portion of it, but I can tell you that these bikes are anything 28 below is kind of like a hospital that's motorized. So, um once they put the motor on it, you know, if they go over 29 miles an hour and that's when they become more accessible to different type of type. city manager saying at Kaw that pavilion is reserved

for today. However, park it's first come first until they get to that 29 mph. So, of course, we have to have a do, but they all should be good where they can't go over 20 28 mph, but there's some t two time people out there, they'll increase that speed.

Yeah. And that was one of the questions someone told me is like, how do they know they're going 28 m an hour? And I jokingly told them, I said, well, when they go through the academy, they calibrate their eyes. But um one of the things I read though was when they manufacture electric bikes, there's three different classifications depending on their speed. I don't remember the first two, but the third one is if it's above 28 m an hour and I think that's where they got the 28 m an hour from cuz there's like some type of label on there to show if they're category. Even like, you know, you got the 49 cc's and you got the different cc's classified motorcycles and that's how they're doing these motorized bikes, electric bikes,

right? Yeah, that classification. So, will some go more than 28 mph? We'll see. Um, we have radar um handheld radar guns. We have different things that we can actually implement into the field to make sure that we can kind of justify see that if we was to, you know, if we was to stop one, we can point at a car and we turn around and point at a bike. It's it's a new thing for us as well because they're getting more popular. Yes, ma'am. If it goes above that on 29 mph kind of like a scooter then it's a certain place you can't go.

I'm not I'm not I'm not I don't think so that ma'am. I think that once you get to that uh classification it's got to get a little higher than that. I believe it has to be two steps higher than that and get a motorcycle. But I'll still research that again and

so I need to know more for myself as well because it's really new even to us because once things get popular sometimes it's just almost like an overnight popularity thing with these ebikes. How many how many in here have ebikes? Does yours do 28 miles an hour? Ours is awesome. Ours will do about 21. I think they're regulated down. You have to change the program. Who else has one? I got an old Huffy just pedal power. I tell you what would be cool is if there was a graphic that was put out that said, hey, if you're, you know, kind of the classification of ebikes, right? And then the associated Florida statute that applies and then in the final column maybe what you what you can't do or where you can't go. I think maybe that would maybe clear up some some

confusion. Lieutenant, we have some information.

All right, sir. Yes, of course. I thought there is classifications out both for what parents need to know and for what um what the general public is. So the statute that govern is going to be 316 uh003 subsection 23 uh and Florida statute 316 220 20655 subsection 2. Now believe that um deputy chiefinger has put out an additional supplement and those came directly from FDOT themselves. Okay, that covers all the classification parts for 1, two, and three. Class two, class one is pedal assist. Uh, and that's 20 mph max. And two is pedal assist and throttle control. Class three is pedal assist only. And that's the one where you get the 28 mph. Uh, when it comes to it shows where you can go down to uh locations of driving, and that would be sidewalk, streets, off-road, stuff that because also you have the some of the dirt bike ones that are all electric as well. Now these things can be classified more stringent once we look at the local municipality codes like what you guys are doing for the the charter you guys can start looking at that to restrict more access where we can go stuff like that too. So when it comes down to citing these individuals, say if they're minors, unfortunately, those citations go will go to parent. Same thing associated with you guys with golf carts or low speed vehicles that we utilize too when the underage uh 15 and below are driving them. Unfortunately, it comes down to the parents allowing them to operate those community. So that's where we come into those kind of issues. So, there was a there was a one post that came out we posted and then I didn't have my phone to tell you exactly what the post said, but I knew it was a Florida Department of Transportation uh flyer that puts out it and had all the different classifications and it's on our Facebook page. You'll see the you'll see the initial post about the electric bikes and then the next below that it should

be the uh FDOT post cuz sometimes the FDOT posts are kind of boring uh and and their advertisement. Not this. I'm not as interested in that. So I say boring. I said they're not as flashy. So you have to put something flashy out there to catch everybody's eye because everybody's got these scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll. So you got to have something to catch your eyes and and so that's what the first one was and then follow up on that one. And then then that's why Lieutenant Gro would take down because he's a main main researcher. He researches like nobody's business. And so we're really glad to have him on our staff. There is legislation pending now I think that regulates you to 10 miles an hour if you're within 50 ft of a pedestrian.

Yeah. It's not been signed into law yet. I think they're projecting July is when it's probably come across the legislative floor and we'll see those around that light. And a lot of the reason too because not only our rails and trails, but a lot of places have sidewalks are 8 ft wide and when they're 8 ft wide, it's a sharing sidewalk. So they can have a golf cart on it. They can have an ebike. They can have a lot more things where they can't have on a normal 4ft sidewalk. So there's some new got old Chris Henderson out there on two wheels. Yeah. The only thing uh that can be motorized on the rails to trails right now are wheelchairs, right? Yes. But you can't have any other problem. Yeah. If you got a hot rod in wheelchairs,

mayor, tell me, I'd like to ask one more question about the golf carts. We have a waiver where they cross this Highway 77. Yes. At 9th Street. Yes. Right at the intersection here at 1977. That's the only at 1977 here at 1977. That's the only place here. We need to take a look at it cuz they're really getting carried away with these golf. They are we trying to stay on top of it. So with your help get on my golf.

Well, the thing with golf carts, I remember that change while we were on the commission. I'm I can't remember the exact wording, but I think if you're you're over 18, you can drive it, but you got to have a valid ID with you. And if you're under I think what's the lowest age? 16. 16. 16. But they have But if you're under license, 16 with license. But if you're under 18, you have to have either a learner's permit or a driver's license. I think something like that. Yes. 16. Some people say, "Well, I'm 14. I drive the notice." The that's what the laws the legislation put that law there for safety reasons. So just the parents have been calling me. I don't know why they call me. Well because you're the mayor. Small children. You'll

always be the mayor. Driving them all around town. Well have them call us. Yeah. I'll have them call. You got my number to give my number. Tell them calling. Quick point of clarification is the minimum legal age. I remember seeing the the state senate draft of the bill and it said you had to be a licensed driver minimum 16. Used to be 14 and then they upped it. Yeah.

We had a issue in uh my neighborhood in fact where there was a 15-year-old girl driving around her dad's golf cart and the mom literally pulled up the Lin Haven Police Department website where it showed that 15 year olds could drive as long as they had a learner's permit. and you guys were like, "Okay." And you left. So, I'm very curious. And she actually put out a whole post and was like, "Hey, for for everybody, they I I distinctly remember it because she said, "For whoever called on my daughter, you know, here's the rules." And she posted a screenshot from Linhaven PD website and it literally said 15 years old or older with a license.

And I assume that was a learner's permit because a 15-year-old doesn't qualify for a driver's license. How long How long was that? Yeah, the legislature chang last fall. No, no, it was since the legislative change because it used to be 14 and then it looked like it everything was 16, but on our own web page it showed 50. I thought it was with a licensed driver. Well, it had to be a licensed driver. Driver. So, because a learning permit only a learning permit classification is uh classified no matter what you're operating.

Well, and this is before my time in office. I just remember seeing it and I literally researched it in the state senate draft that I you know you can go Google what they actually proposed at Tallahassee it said 16 but on our own website as in Linhaven PD it literally said if you Google it you literally pull up it says 15 years or older we we'll verify that I don't I don't mess with those their website I will double check on that please please let us know I mean it's a minor thing but you know ultimately it comes down to the parents and god forbid a kid get hurt, you know, 15 versus 16. We got to look in the vehicle 213.

Yes, ma'am. To go along with that, recently a 14year-old boy was riding an e motorcycle in California. Now, his mother had already been warned about this because he already been riding one, so she got him a new one. and he hit a 81y old veteran. He's not even his life yet. So the mother is going to be charged for what the son has done because the son isn't. Yeah.

And that's that's that is normally the case because especially once we've um if law enforcement ever becomes involved in it and they've already educated somebody and they are parents or somebody allows them to do it again, they'll do that. or if you facilitate something with a weapon or a vehicle or if you allow that to happen then you're going to be in trouble. I don't think the parents are allowing them to drive. I think what they're doing they're coming home from school and then they're getting on the golf cart and going doing their thing. Well, the parents can also disable golf cart if they need to. So that's take the key.

Yes, ma'am. So to be on the street, a golf cart is supposed to be street legal, supposed to have certain things like a triangle at the back and is that correct? Is that a state brake lights? They got to have certain things to be on on the screen just is there any way that the city can give a little tag or something to people that have all carts that have passed that um requirement and so some of them don't have anything on you can tell there that would be very hard for the the police department to keep up with. No, no, no. I just

So they do that on let's say Panama City Beach in order to operate your vehicle or golf cart in certain areas, right? For commercial wise, if it's commercial rental, they have to have tags on it. But if you have your own personal one, there's no tags on that one. But if it's a commercial one, they have tags. So Len became a golf cart community when that happened. Uh it's just a magnitude of golf carts. So I'm not saying it's not possible. Well, I'm just saying we haven't done that and it might be challenging, but everything can be done if you have a manpower. So, I I don't mean check just random checking. I'm talking about, you know, some kind of

We used to have to register like if you registered to get a sticker that you registered and it meets a like a state like an inspection sticker, right? Well, that's something that can be, you know, discussed and be Yeah, it would have to go before the commission that way, but anything can anything's possible, but that is an option for the commission to kind of

Yes, ma'am. You can you can speak to your commissioners about that. So, so the ordinance, the city ordinance says the operator is a person who is under 18 years of age possessing a valid learner's driver's license or valid driver's license or a person who is 18 years of age or over possessing a valid form of government issued photographic identification. That's the ordinance. So, that's what we need to check against the state. That's what I would honestly it's going to be stateful, but I'll look at it and make sure. I'd honestly like to just do a double check. I'm not against I'm going when I leave here in a minute. Thank you. I remember when we passed that when we passed that we were matching state requirements.

Yes. So, in order anytime you have cuz the city can't supersede state law. So, Right. Right. And that's why it has to that ordinance has to meet. But I'll double check to make sure that what our ordinance says what the state says. Right. I think what it was that there was an adult if they had a learner's product just like in an automobile that there was that well there's some there's some exceptions to the state and not only Yeah. And not to get in a rabbit hole on this but Johnny it doesn't say anything about them riding with a parent as long as they got a learner. They got to learn. Yeah. So I I'll research that some more and then I will I will get back to the mayor.

Yeah. I'd like to know what the final state bill was because I read the state senates draft that was submitted and it said 16 and older. You had to have a valid driver's license. I knew they were 16 to 18 or the law. Well, he he pulled over city or where it says with a permit 15 years old. Well, this I just read back there 66-6 subsection D subsection one. It's u an individual 18 years old with a ballot. I mean there's some of the verbiage in there is a little off putting if you will um

what we'll do is uh we're going to we're going to look at the legislation and we'll look at the state law and we'll look at our ordinance and then I'll get back with the mayor and then he'll know I remember when we pass that we pass that matching with the state and normally they do match normally it's that's what I would assume but the 15year-old with the learners is where I'd like clarity. It only stipulates 18 years of age permit license. That's the state

for the state law. beautiful. So what they're talking about, they got a sidebar going about brake lights and no lights, but so it's different between after hours and there's some difference from daylight time and night time. And you couldn't drive after unless it was street legal.

It has to be street legal after dark. Has to be headlights, brake lights, turn signals. Has to be all that after dark. So there might be some education opportunities. The windshield has to be right. Yeah. All right. Well, we Thanks, guys. We're We're gonna We've divulged into three different sidebars here. Um, what did you guys come up with? As you saying, it just it doesn't stipulate, but you have to be 15. You get the valve, right?

It's just like I said, the verbiage is what we discussed 18. So, if y'all could clarify that for us and let us know, it it would probably not be a bad thing to do just a public awareness campaign, especially with the summer with school about to get out and kids are going to be want to do things and driving around their neighborhoods with their buddies. If somebody's got a golf cart, whether it's mom, dads, grandmas, grandpas, whatever, it's a good thing to get out there. So, we'll get it. We'll we'll put our heads together. We'll make sure we'll get with the mayor and the commission, let them know and uh and that way they can disseminate that and we can also do the public announcement district confirmation. Let's do another awareness.

Um we're all about awareness. So include Titan River in that too, please on our communication side. Sure. Yeah. But thank you. Captain Block is uh our number three guy here in the police department. How many years have you been with the force now? I've been with Blood Haven since 1989. That's awesome. So, I've seen a lot. I've seen a lot. I've been through I think uh city manager life is my 14th official city manager now. Um you say you're the best, just the 14. Not sure.

Well, I I I started off in corrections um at CCA and then I went to Panama City Beach, worked there for about a year and a halfish and then I came to Lyn Haven in 1989 and from there I just uh worked a lot of I worked undercover for about five years, real deep undercover, worked investigations. Patrol is the best thing going of any police department ever. So, our patrolman, they don't get enough recognition. So, I want to just recognize our patrol officers. They do an amazing job. Um, being short staffed sometimes. It's just um a lot going on. The city's growing. There's a lot of traffic. I You ever try to get out and try to turn somewhere on 77th or even on the side roads now, it's just a lot of traffic. So, they work hard 12 hours a day, sometimes 14 to finishing up the reports. So, they they're the backbone and the heartbeat of our department. So, anytime you see them, you know, um they're they're hustling. They're trying to get things done. So, and that 21103 vehicle, I most likely was going to a call for sure or going to back up somebody. So, I'll get I'll look in that. Lieutenant, can you get her information before we leave, please?

Can I say one other thing? You also serve on the Salvation Army board. We can help those young children Christmas time. Yeah, I have narrowed down my serving on board. I do the pregnancy resource center and I do the Salvation Army board director. That's my only two boards for what you do. We appreciate you, Captain Bla. I like saying that instead of Lieutenant Bla. Appreciate you. And if y'all have any questions too, just just email me at the police department or call us and um we'll talk with you or you can come get a tour. We'll walk you through and we can talk and walk at the same time. Appreciate you and the lieutenant being here. All right, we got a few more minutes. Uh, Commissioner War, you had something you wanted to present, right?

Yeah. I don't think we got enough time when I We got 15 minutes. I know. But if I were to bring it up, we'd be here for a long time. I just thought we had a lot of empty time. So, go ahead. We got 15 minutes. I just wanted to hear what you guys's thoughts on the city clerk thing with your research and that that you guys have done. Um, what are your thoughts on it? I like it. I want it. I'm all for it. City clerk. City clerk, your thoughts.

So, um, after speaking with the city clerk of Panama City and, um, kind of learning how they do things, uh, this is this is just me. I don't know if you all agree with it or not. This is kind of what I'm looking at as far as an organizational chart. If if this ends up passing, I'm personally and I I know with what the currently the charter states, it says they have all these duties and then it says something like we can as a commission we can uh give them additional duties. I got some questions on that with the city attorney. I want to ask, but I'm a proponent that the city clerk is also the treasurer. Oh,

and the reason I'm a proponent of that is because any revenue or expenses will go through an independent person being the city clerk. And that city clerk, any checks that are signed will be signed by that city clerk and the mayor. And that the reason I like that is, you know, we set the priorities for the city. The city manager has a budget budget. anything that he wants to spend has to go through another person to make sure that we have enough funds in the account that's being utilized for the proper fund. It's it's all legit. So if we do that, this is the way I foresee it. uh for me. Um so the clerk would out actually be the treasurer and then there would be a deputy clerk under that. And then like Kiki's team you see there where it's got the treasurer and like the the team she currently has would fall under that. And then you have the billing department with all those customer service representatives. The one thing that's missing here that I kind of had to go through and research is the procurement manager. Um procurement manager is not on this one because um I believe the procurement manager needs to administratively fall under the city manager because the procurement manager gets tasked with with things from the city manager. And if you put on the city clerk, it's going to make it too difficult for them to do what they need to do. So administratively, they would fall under the city manager, but operationally things would have to still go through the city clerk to make sure everything's done correctly.

Is that you're talking about the procurement manager? Procurement. So the purchasing part is not right. Correct. Employees. So that now now I'm sure once you add some of these some of these positions since they'll have additional duties and that I'm sure they'll have to their their salary would have to increase. So this leaves utilities, public oh not utilities I'm sorry public works parks and w police fire under the city man right C planning and development building services storm

everything everything that has to do with with finances as far as paying accounts receivable and accounts payable is and records. Hell yeah. Philosophically, he continues to do operations and he has someone else handling the paperwork in the bean county essentially and they tag team together. They would both answer to the commission, but it gives you that twoperson authentication. We've talked about before like a missile silo, right? But the two guys with the keys. Um, there you go. Yes, ma'am. I'm sorry. Uh, can you send that to us? Can you do I send that to you that right there? I mean, I just can't read it.

I'll forward it to Mr. Forehand and forward out to you guys. There you go. Wow. Wow. Well, they both are Chris. That's probably why. So, but I I I kind of was thought of this as a talking point, you know. So, see what you guys thought. I mean, so maybe there's not like there's less and less paper checks that go out. So how would that how is this?

So I know your question and to answer that. So the the question was M. Mashers is talking about that a lot in today's times a lot of people are converting over to EFT versus a paper check. We still have a lot of vendors that do paper checks though. Her question is how does it how does it prevent? So currently the mayor, the city manager, and the finance director sign off on the warrant list. It's not physically signing every check just like you do in your personal finances. It's signing the warrant list. The signatures are preloaded and they print out that way on the checks. It would still be the same way for but it still goes through that

the warrant list is still signed by in in this case it would just be the city um the city clerk and the the mayor. There's still a physical list that Chris and I and Kiki all signed. I know that. Yeah, I know that. I'm just He just said that the mayor and signing checks is really a figure of speech versus physically. Right. I get what you're saying. So, instead of on the new physical form where we have to the three of us have to approve the warrant now, it would be Kiki, myself, and whoever the new city clerk is instead of the city manager.

Yeah, I understand that. I just Yeah. So, this is a really good graphic. Um, although it's it's it's kind of soda straw to, you know, city commission and then the city clerk treasurer. Um, I would like I would like to see number one, you know, the other officers, which it would be the city attorney that would fall directly under the city commission and then the city manager that would fall directly under the city commission, right?

Three, those three being the officers. But more importantly, because what this looks like is the finance director position would be absolved or it would turn into the city clerk and tre treasure. And I'm okay with that. But I'm curious to see how how this soda straw view would compare to our current organizational construct. So we can kind of compare number one and number two identify if we're adding positions or if we're you know eliminating positions that that's going to lead into the funding discussion and so on and so forth. But that's a that's a good start to to a graphic to see how how this would all roll out.

Now, this is my my theory on how it should work. I don't know if the rest of them agree with me. That's why I brought it up now so they can kind of get the thought process going from, you know, the research that they've been doing.

I like it. I mean, the titles, you could say deputy treasurer, assistant treasurer. I mean, happy to glad puppy to small dog, right? But here's your core functions. Your clerk is supposed to be your clerk treasurer. So you have one head clerk doing all the admin stuff and then you have another doing the bean counting and you have a few people on that bean counting team and then you have the billing with the utility routes. That's that makes sense. It's clean. It's direct and it keeps it keeps us functionally segregated. You have the bean counting and the support end and then you have Chris leading the operations, you know, the broken water pipes and the police and fire and all that on a day in dayout basis. Now, are you envisioning what Kiki's role is now would kind of morph into the deputy treasurer or would that be somewhat a different

That's up to us. Yeah, I'm asking you like in your mind. Well, I mean, if you're going to make it city clerk treasur, obviously you would need someone that has financial experience. Yeah. So, cuz you said there wouldn't be any new employees. I'm just trying to envision how how we if I may so in conversation that Commissioner War and I had kind of to when he was asking questions about this the deputy treasurer would really if it was were today would be the assistant finance director which Miss Marsh if you're doing it with current who's today and then the the city clerk turn that position goes from the finance director which is Miss Roman to the city clerk/treasurer position.

Okay. And then senior staff accountant is would be below them. Correct. Got it. All right. I'm following. And the way the way I see this is we hire the city clerk treasur and then they hire all those other people. That's correct. We wouldn't hire all the other people. That's up to the city clerk. So right now utility billing does it report? Does it report? Yes sir. They report they already report to the finance. So really most of this is already in play. The only thing that's sh the major change is shifting the the city clerk to the commission instead of the finance director being under the city manager. Yes, sir. That is the major change. You're just taking that piece of chart and moving.

And what this does is it keeps us from having a single point of failure and where you have way too much power per se uh and not enough transparency. this way. It's kind of that trust but verify dual authentication which all of us military guys in here can can attest to. That is how we're hardwired from day one and it makes sense. So, and so who would the city under this like we're looking at who would the city clerk be? Well, that's up to the commission to hire. So, we would vote on that, right? Yes.

We the hiring 30 for the for the city clerk's class if we make it treasure. I mean, right now, the way the charter is written is all your basic city clerk functions. If it does change and pass in August, it has the basic uh functions of a city clerk. What it doesn't have is a piece that I'm a proponent for is the treasurer piece. That's that that part's different. And not all cities do it that way. I see that as the most valuable part of it. It is. What's the salary? It speaking from other cities, it's about $120 to $150,000 range position. I've seen you raise your hand three times, ma'am.

That's okay. Um and you may already said it. Is this part of the budget? Where would this come from?

The existing positions already. Um so literally it's just an org chart. Like for example, right now if if the commission was to appoint Miss Roman, Kiki Roman, our finance director, to be the city clerk treasurer, she basically is already doing that job largely. It's just literally pulling her over from reporting to the city manager to the city commission. So she becomes his peer. Now, she might get a bump up if the commission determined that as appropriate, you know, for the higher level responsibility, but other than that, the rest of the the structure underneath Miss Roman stays in place.

Correct. So doing it this way, but but I foresee some of the there's a few of the salaries would probably increase because if it ends up being Miss Roman, city clerk treasurer, she's going to have additional duties. Um but it would also have to pass on the referendum and then not only would have to pass on the referendum, then we would if it once it passed then we could budget it out and then start looking at hiring and then we have to pay sort of would be very important.

Right. I don't know if we can word it that way. Maybe the term maybe we should use is establish or authorize the right or convert retread, you know, whatever the recon or convert the finance director to be the city treasurer, cl treasurer. I don't think you could word it like that on the referendum what you're asking for. I think we as commissioners would have to make sure we educate the public on what this entails if if we go this direction. Some of the other commissions may disagree with this. I don't know. But there's still going to be a new salary position of over 100

right. Well, not a new for the city clerk. So, if the referendum passes where there will be a city clerk added to the the commission, the referendum is not voting on the job description. It's up to the commission to say, "Hey, we want it to be a city clerk treasurer." 10 years from now. commission could come in and say, "Hey, we don't want a a city clerk treasur. We just want a city clerk. We want the treasures to go into there." So, you don't want that in the charter to limit that to the referendum.

It will be on the referendum to add a city clerk and it will be up to the education from each commissioner of how they intend to do that to educate the public on is it going to be budget neutral or is it going to be a whole other that adds to it. This is what I foresee happening is if we go if if the commission decides to go this direction

with the way the charter language currently is and I like the way the charter language is. So it gives us some flexibility when we initially formulate that position. If if we determine later down the line this works and we want to keep this permanent then we could change the charter to state clerk/treasur. If not, then we have the flexibility to move it back where the treasurer piece moves back under the city manager, but you still have the city clerk piece. That make sense? I'm with Mr. Bashers. I think that that's kind of the main reason you'd want to have a clerk to begin with is on the treasurer side of things. Yep. Yes. So,

I like it especially since I was under the same assumption as uh that uh that it would be at a completely new added position which would add quite a bit to the budget. So, if we're able to do it this way, that's that's I think it's fantastic. And let's just say Kiki, you know, is the person we decide to hire for this and or task with this and we give her a I don't know 10 $12,000 year pay for the extra responsibility. That's still way cheaper than a new $120,000 position. Right. So

Okay. You going to clarify what what is it, Mr. Chair? What do you want to cl It was my understanding that this was going to be a new position, a a new person coming in to It's a new role, not necessarily a new position. I know we keep we're throwing names out there. Yeah, because he's trying to retire. So, that's

you know though, that's actually a good thing because what she could do Yes, it is. Well, I a we could keep her a little longer. Let's say for example, we bring Kiki in and make her the new city clerk treasurer. She wants to retire. Let's say she agrees to stay on for a year and a half or two years. She truly establishes the position, makes it her own. She knows she's got all the depth and knowledge of how finances work at this city. Then she literally helps the commission on board a replacement who could be a 15, 20, 30-year person. And it the position gets competed openly, transparently, fairly. and we bring in the best guy or gal we can get and we make them part of the team and they're here long term. They're another Captain Bllelock serving decades, right? So Kiki comes in as the honest broker, knowledgeable broker, makes the position and then departs the pattern.

Basically what this does, it takes the current finance department but with a title of treasurer. kind of get the car before the horse over the commission three years.

If I could clone Kiki, I would be a happy camper. But wanting to use her knowledge and skills and ability to help us make this position brand new, as we'd say in the military, nailing jello- to the wall, trying to form the initial construct and normalize all of the reportive and administrative things with the commission. I think she's pro arguably in the best position to help us do that short term. Right. Right. But I just want to throw it out there so that everyone knows what's on my mind. You guys may or may not agree. I don't know.

Well, as we wrap up, we uh literally are 2 minutes over now. 11:02. We've had a small audience today, but I appreciate y'all. Y'all been a lively one. Everybody's been engaged. Literally every single one of y'all in here have talked and engaged. We appreciate that. We appreciate Mayor Kelly being with us and all the regulars. Um, any final shots before we wrap up and head our separate ways? Keep up the good work. Thank y'all. Y'all have a great weekend.