Committee - Regular Meeting

I'd like to call today's Law, Safety, and Justice Committee meeting to order. We have a few items on docket. But first up, we have a presentation from the Sheriff's Office. I'll turn it over to Chella first. Introduce.

Good afternoon, Chair, Commissioners. We are going to hear a brief presentation from the Sheriff's Office directly. I believe that Chief Deputy Pat Enderlein is here in response to your request for an update as to the implementation of recommendations related to the overtime study and staffing studies that this Board has received. Chief Enderlein.

Good afternoon, Chair and Commissioners, Chief Deputy Pat Underline with the Sheriff's Office. I want to start by saying thank you for the support over the past two years for the staffing studies and Get That Done. And I also do want to recognize the magnitude. We understand the weight of the budget, where we're at with the budgets, the update from Mr. Matthews earlier. As you know, we're here today to provide an update on progress implementing recommendations from the independent staffing studies for the emergency communications facility and adult detention center, as well as an update with respect to the overtime study. The studies provided detailed recommendations for a variety of areas, including staffing, supervision, deployment, training, and workforce management. We have worked strategically to implement many of those recommendations already. Completing the remaining recommendations relies heavily on bringing staffing resources into alignment with the studies. Next slide, please. There are 45 total recommendations within the two staffing studies, and 29 of them are complete or in implementation. There were also 22 recommendations in the overtime study, with some of those overlapping within the two staffing studies. As you can see, we've made significant progress across the board with two-thirds of all recommendations complete or underway. Substantial progress has been made using existing resources and operational changes. Next slide, please. As we all know, data drives strategic planning and decision making, and we appreciate the opportunity to use what we have learned from the overtime study to collaborate with county administration and the Office of Budget and Finance. Some of that work is highlighted in the monthly reports provided to the board. We recognize that better data supports better workload and staffing analysis. Better analysis allows budget and staffing requests to be tied more closely and directly to documented operational needs for greater decision making. Ultimately, we will continue to assess staffing requirements so staffing decisions remain connected to operational needs and community realities. Next slide, please. Fifteen of the 22 overtime study recommendations are complete or underway. Administratively, this included adopting recommendations such as streamlining overtime codes, separating reimbursable overtime from expensed overtime, consistent pay period overtime reviews by all division commanders, formalizing development of the annual overtime budget with periodic reviews to aid in future budget planning and streamlining the hiring process and focusing on assertive recruitment and retention practices. Operationally, this included recommendations such as creating dedicated teams to conduct detainee guard duty and medical transport responsibilities, which has been completed, and transitioning from licensed deputies to detention deputies within the jail facility, which has been partially completed. And I'll cover more on that later in the jail study slides. Some of the areas we have not been able to implement include incorporating relief factor agency-wide, and devising a new staffing plan in the jail, which is primarily due to the current approved complement of FTEs. In area or areas we chose not to implement include assigning a dedicated team to cover the Golden Valley shift coverage agreement, as that was intended to be a temporary and reimbursable detail, and also splitting our violent offender task force into two separate teams and shifts, as that would require additional supervisory positions. Next slide, please. Regarding the emergency communications facility, 17 of 25 recommendations are complete or underway. This includes utilizing a ticketing system to track workload, establishing a dedicated training budget, reallocating supervisory roles to better align with specialized functions, and ensuring accurate job descriptions to clarify expectations of roles. Next slide. Next steps in implementation depend in large part on opportunities to resolve the staffing level recommendations. This includes increasing recommendations to increase by 19 telecommunicators for a total strength of 73, adding three new telecommunicator sergeants for a total of 12, adding six new records clerks also for a total of 12, and adding a variety of other positions, including a deputy director and quality assurance manager. Next slide, please. For the Adult Detention Center, 13 of 20 recommendations are complete or ongoing. We have transferred most weapons screening and all medical transport responsibilities, as well as the needed deputy complement to the Court and Field Services Bureau. We've also shifted detainee guard duty responsibilities and the needed deputy complement to our Public Safety Services Bureau. We've achieved the recommended minimum staffing possible within the currently approved complement, and we've implemented the classification staff recommendation. Next slide. Similar to the ECF, additional recommendations become possible once those foundational staffing resources are in place. Specific needs include reaching the recommended minimum staffing level of 303 deputies, which includes licensed and unlicensed deputies, adding six new detention sergeants to attain a complement of 29, and adding nine new Central Records staff. For additional context, there are currently 196 board-approved and funded detention deputies assigned to the jail. At the beginning of 2027, there will be 39 sheriff's deputies assigned to the jail. That totals 235 board-approved and funded line staff in the jail with the goal of reaching the necessary minimum of 303. Next slide, please. In closing, we are reaching the limit of what can be accomplished through reassignment or changes to existing operations alone. Between both staffing studies, 13 of the 15 not yet implemented recommendations are directly tied to adequate staffing levels. We recognize and understand there is significant financial pressure facing our residents, the county, and all county departments and resources. These third-party studies are tremendously valuable when it comes to resource allocation, ensuring fiscal responsibility, requesting necessary positions, and considering consolidation of resources. We look forward to continued conversations and next steps to determine an achievable implementation schedule for the recommended positions. I want to thank you again, and at this time, I'll turn it over to Sheriff Witt.

Thank you, Chief Underline, and thank you, Commissioners, for engaging with our office on the work that we do. We appreciate the partnership with county administration and the consultants who made these studies happen. I want to speak briefly about the areas of our office where we haven't had staffing studies and reiterate that our agency-wide staffing study would be very much helpful to us. The broader reality is that we have more work across this agency than we have historically. And the workload in many areas continues to increase year over year. Some of the areas of increase include CAD events are up 5.2%. The Hennepin County Sheriff's Office recorded just under 350,000 police CAD events through quarter two of 2026. More than 17,000 additional events above the 2025 levels. Civil enforcement workload is up 20%. Deputies made 11,675 civil service attempts through quarter two of 2026, compared with 9,730 in 2025. That's nearly 2,000 additional attempts. Foreclosure sales are running 32% higher, averaging 45 per month compared to 34 in past. Forensic demands is also growing, particularly around narcotics. The growing workload across this agency is one of the reasons it generally is an impossible force to simply move bodies from other areas of the Sheriff's Office into the jail. Those employees are already doing the work that has to get done. And in many cases, the workload is increasing, as I just talked about. Moving licensed deputies into the jail is not the answer. In fact, one assessment recommendation agrees that would not be fiscally responsible either, as licensed deputies are trained and paid at a higher rate than our detention deputies. That's also why I strongly encourage an agency-wide staffing study. It would be valuable as we plan for future implementations, not just while we're here, but for the people that come and do these jobs after us. We appreciate the work that has gone into making sure the jail is appropriately staffed over the next several years, and we look forward to continue to work together in making sure that we increase the services for the residents of this county every day. Thank you. Did I stay up here for questions or sit down?

I guess it would depend. I just wanted to... Thanks, Sheriff's Department, for all the work on this. We've had constant communication about, I think, what I believe is an opportunity to brag. That's what I've said to you as well, because when you're getting stuff done, knowing that there are steps to be done, there's nothing wrong with progress. And I think that we are doing that. We have to do it together, because I think as we get closer, we get closer to where the steps are going to require bodies. And so I think as we continue to work through that, my goal has always been to get people Less than overtime. I'd rather have people in those positions than having us to backfill. And I think that's the, I don't want to speak for Sheriff's Department, but I feel that's the same thing as we need people to get rid of that overtime hours. I'll just say that I think, I'll just turn it over to advanced questions. I'll start there. Commissioner Anderson.

This is maybe a foundational question. You used some terminology that I was unfamiliar with. CAT events. I apologize. I'm just not...

Chair, Commissioner, it's a computer-aided dispatch event. So that's when a telecommunicator initiates a call for service for our staff out in the squad car.

Now, those events remind me again what the increase was on that. It was...

We brought our entourage with us. I appreciate it. I'm hearing 17,000, an increase of 5.2%, increase of 17,000 additional events.

And that's impacting your telecommunicators, or is that your dispatch? Like, I want to make sure that I'm putting this in the right context of where the need is. So if you could help.

Yep, Chair, Commissioner. We also have one of our emergency communications facility supervisors here, Don Kenyon, that can answer specific questions, but that would be a direct impact. in for sure in our telecommunications staff load as far as call takers and dispatchers, just making sure there are enough people there answering the calls and then dispatching them out.

And is that countywide or is that just the Plymouth or like our PSAP?

Chair, Commissioner, that would be our PSAP. So for the agencies that we dispatch for.

Okay. I appreciate that. I'm just trying to make sure that I understand the context of where these are. You also mentioned a really big increase on the number of attempts, like the civil, you know the terminology, I don't. The attempts that you made to, I'm assuming, serving subpoenas and that type of work. Is that... I know when I did a ride along a few years ago, I remember very distinctly hearing like, we get so many of these and we never get to all of it. We get to as many as we can and we try to do everything as best we can. How does this reflect The total amount of work, are you making more inroads on the total amount that has been asked of you? Can you speak a little bit to kind of how that's playing out? Because I know you're always over-asked.

Chair, Commissioner, I can't speak directly to that. I don't know if Major Kurtz would like to answer that, or we could get back to the board.

real quick chair commissioners uh yes we if a paper comes into the civil unit we do uh try to we will try to serve that paper 100 of the time we will not be successful 100 with that and and i know like when i this maybe is a historical thing like um it was my understanding or it was just my impression that that There was more papers that you were asked to serve than you had capacity to serve. when I did my ride along a few years ago. Are you at a point right now where you are attempting to serve 100%? Like, you are always going out and all of them have been attempted to be served, or are you still just doing a percentage of them?

Again, any paper that comes into the office, we attempt to serve. But if you go and knock on the door two, three times, you might not get that paper served. I will say with the additional two deputies that have been moved to the civil unit, that has been a big help in closing that gap to make sure that if a paper does come in the door, we're at least trying to serve it.

Okay.

Sorry. I think it's also important to note that there are some time constraints on some of the papers that need to be served, legal obligations in which things need to be served, such as orders, domestic abuse, no contact orders, and things like that. And then when we're dealing with the mental health side of things, and then just even going out looking for people sometimes. Not every resident is on the address on the papers that we have. And so certain things are more urgent, and that takes more resources to make sure that we're doing our part to get new people served in a timely manner.

Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you.

Commissioner Gotell.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Appreciate that. I just want to say I really appreciate the recognition for the budget situation that we're all in. And we're all sharing in the demise or the wealth, however this goes, right? There's such a tug, a pull. on what we can do and what we can't do and how fast we can ramp things up, especially now when we're looking at the deficits facing us as a county. And I feel your pain. I mean, I heard you talk about the number of evictions that you have to go to and everything. On the other side of that, those people who are evicted show up at the door of our Health and Human Services. And our people have seen increases, too, and yet we are holding vacancies as best we can, and there are more people to serve. So we are all feeling that workload, and I appreciate you working with us on this and working on these budget constraints that we all have as we try to make sure that we are serving public safety in a good way. We're all trying to do more with less, and I appreciate your efforts. Thank you.

Commissioner Connolly.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm going to echo that appreciation. It's a tough year financially, fiscally. Next year is a tough year. The year after that is a tough year. And so I'm seeing a lot of progress in this report, which is incredible. So keep it up. I think two-thirds of what was recommended is complete. That's great. I had two questions. One of them is there were seven recommendations that were not complete on the ADC staffing. And I just wondered what those were. It says there were five complete, several that are in process, seven not yet complete. Wondered if you can just give an idea. You don't have to name all seven, but just what are some of the things that are not yet completed or maybe won't be completed?

Chair and Commissioner, thank you. I'll try to make it concise. I believe they were all directly related to staffing. So one is a creation of a flex pool. One is the detention technician. position, reevaluating that. Yeah, creating Rover sergeant, assigning a command center sergeant, increase in central records staff. And then another one, a final one, was evaluating the jail medical unit business practices, which we would not do.

Thank you. And so the ADC is at the required staffing level right now, right?

No. Well, we're meeting the minimum staffing levels based upon overtime use and filling it with people from other divisions as we can, high use of overtime. With the matrix report, without a shift relief factor, we would need at least 252 line staff in there just to fill all of the shifts. And that is not with the relief factor. That 303 is with the relief factor. So we're hitting it with use of overtime.

Got it. And so with that additional, that flex pool could potentially be created and then the detention text that we talked about earlier this year could be something that's implemented as well.

Chair, Commissioner, the flex pool, yes, we're looking at detention technicians. We have some concerns over that. And part of that, like we've talked about before, is what we do with our staff who are injured on duty, on light duty. Typically, they are reallocated to the areas like the control rooms, which detention technicians have historically been utilized for. So we want to have a little more discussion on that.

Understood. Thank you. Second question was just, Madam Chair, thank you, around civil enforcement. So I know that the question I'm going to ask maybe doesn't fall under civil enforcement, but for some of the agreements, I'm wondering if it's overtime that you might have with other cities, Minneapolis specifically, to do patrols in certain areas. Where does that fall under? And is that overtime? Is that already budgeted?

Chair, Commissioner, so that's not related to civil enforcement. That's our paper service, RITs, evictions. That would be our enforcement services division. We have no agreement with the city of Minneapolis to provide any stability, continued coverage, any coverage at all within any of their precincts. We did with Golden Valley Police Department, and then we do with some of the smaller cities like Rockford and Hanover. But with the city of Minneapolis, we don't have any agreement to provide any service level in their city as far as patrol services.

Great. I'd like to follow up with you on that, just from what I've seen on the south side. So for the civil enforcement being up, that doesn't include any other type of patrolling. That's all within enforcement. So is enforcement itself seeing a rise?

Chair, commissioners, I don't have that information. Sure.

No, I just want to say that we do not have any scheduled times that we are in the city of Minneapolis. We follow the data on where the crime is. We do, once in a while, do focus enforcement details, which often involve collaboration with Minneapolis. But that can involve people with Hennepin County warrants or Minneapolis warrants. And I don't know if there's anything that Major Magnuson wanted to add there. But I think the clear distinction is when we were in Brooklyn Park and Golden Valley, We were contracted to be there for a certain amount of squads for a certain amount of hours. We do not do any of that with the city of Minneapolis.

Okay. As a follow-up, Madam Chair, I would like to follow up with you on that just from what I've seen. And I know constituents have seen deputies patrol. Lake Street specifically, and I wondered if it could have been as a result of there's a major crackdown now on what the mayor calls open-air drug use, and it was a multi-jurisdictional. So I'll follow up because I think there's some detail that I'd like to provide you with.

Okay. No, thank you. And I will say that some of that is a response to constituents that have also reached out to me asking, begging, pleading for help as well.

Thank you.

Commissioner Edelson.

Well, I want to thank you for this presentation. It's really helpful just looking at the stack that you have to figure out where we are. So one of the things I was thinking about is, What happens with, so overtime is obviously, I feel like it's like something we've talked about since I've been here. And I think everybody's talking about this. It's not just Hennepin County. In public safety, that's what we're hearing. And then I was, I don't remember. I have to read my own chicken scratch notes. I don't even know if I can read it. What happens operationally if we fund minimum staffing versus optimal staffing or ideal staffing is one of the questions I had. You know, in terms of what we're, are we, if we add staffing, do we really see overtime going down to what extent? Like, you know what I mean? I'm just trying to figure out where we need to be for it to be better.

Sure, Commissioner. I don't want to take a solid stab at this. We've talked with OBF about this. We've talked with our finance director about this. We've kind of talked about this 10% that Greg Matthews alluded to when he did the overtime presentation. We've tried to pull data from across the country. There's a lot of apples to oranges on that. We would expect to see a reduction in overtime. To what extent, we're not 100% sure on that. Certainly, as we increase staffing levels, We account for relief factor. I have a laundry list of people that are off on light duty military leave. So once we start accounting for all of that with relief factor, then we would expect to see the overtime to go down. I don't want to project to what extent that would be or what an appropriate overtime is. We are having continued conversations with county administration on that.

Well, and it just made me think of, thank you for that. It just made me think of Commissioner Anderson to what you were saying is like, not that something's not being done, but officers are feeling like, I need to go. I don't have time to spend time with you. I need to go. I need to get to this next thing. And so it just makes me think, like if we're staffed more, even so, do, do, Officers just and deputies have a little bit more time, so they're going to spend more time in the community. It's just this kind of challenging thing where there's always need. And so we have the same, there's a lot of things that are very similar in a hospital setting to what this is. Like doctors only have a few moments with you. And then if they have less patients, maybe they'll spend more time, right? So anyways, I'm just thinking through all of this. I don't know that I have an answer or a question.

There was a question, an answer, and an explanation in that, Commissioner, but no. This is, I give you one example that occurred in the month of July where, because we also care for the people that are in our custody and the number of people that we have that are ill, very ill, There are several points in the month of July where we had more deputies at the hospital than we did patrolling the streets of Hennepin County, and that should never be. So when we're talking about getting to that number, whatever that sweet spot is, we don't know what it is. But again, I say that we need to look at the reality of what we're facing right now Because we also have to think of the types of calls that our deputies are responding to, things that affect them tremendously. And I know, again, with all due respect, we're all under pressure with the budget. But it's my job to talk about what we need. And I'm trying to explain what we need, not what we want. As I explained to the county administrator, if I said what I want, I'd be asking for a helicopter right about now. That was a joke. It's okay to laugh. But, you know, again, the jobs is simply different now either. Even with respect to what you said, Commissioner Anderson, it's different from three years ago. But we really need to that's why I would really like again to say we need that staff and study I understand we're not going to do it for right now But we have a responsibility to plan for the future with what we're seeing right now And that's the best thing for our residents as well as our staff.

Thank you Commissioner Fernando Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Sheriff, Chief, the whole team who's here. As Commissioner Ellison said, we've been talking about this particular subject for quite some time, and so mine are more kind of in general remarks, knowing that we are going to be doing budget very soon, and as mentioned, a lot of us are tracking what's going on here. MINOR, AGAIN, MORE COMMENTS FOR THE, IN AN EFFORT TO BE TRANSPARENT. SO FIRST, STAFFING RESOURCES IN ALIGNMENT WITH STUDIES, TOTALLY HEAR YOU, CHIEF. AND OUR WORLD HAS COMPLETELY SHIFT BY WAY OF REVENUE OVER THIS LAST YEAR. AND SO EVEN OFFERS THAT WE HAVE MADE TO OUR MUNICIPALITIES, OFFERS WE'VE MADE TO PROVIDERS, TO PARTNERS, OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS ARE BEING REEVALUATED. AND SO I JUST WANT TO EXPRESS THAT ON THE RECORD. We, the commissioners, have asked county admin to reevaluate and to really look holistically, not just at the Hennepin effect, but the cascading effect that occurs for municipalities and, of course, with our county partners. I want to say that for the record publicly. Second comment, absolutely hear you on the staffing study, Sheriff, and that the workload is up. More data on this would be interesting, not just for data's sake. I'll explain why. These are just Irene's opinions now. This following is not everybody's opinion yet. But clearly there is some amount of scope that is being questioned for counties. We have counties and other county colleagues are questioning whether or not we county should be doing social services. There are other areas that are wondering if municipalities should be doing law enforcement. And so for the local level, we are being asked by residents and by our partners to reevaluate what work should be going where. And so that data will help to inform Perhaps there's a scope. When I say scope, are sheriff's offices implementing foreclosures statewide? Is that 50%? What might that data show us? Another example of the data is the medical need. Do you express medical need? Many of us have expressed a need for consistent, sustainable, durable, dedicated foreclosures. revenue for health. You know, maybe there is something that the data shows there, either in our own facility or facilities across the state. So that's where I think it would be beneficial. And so when I think of staffing study, personally, I'm going to invite that it is more broadly and not just one agency. That's a tension point that I'm personally experiencing from resident feedback. Residents are saying property taxes are up across all areas. are you willing to partner with each other and ask how should that get paid for? So I wanted to express that. you know, verbally myself. And then my last comment, set of comments, just to keep the comment alive, I've expressed intrigue as to why we don't have a JPA with Minneapolis. We have one for the State Fair. We have one for Golden Valley. There's one for Vote If, it sounds like, according to the verbal presentation here. So I'll just continue to express that because, again, it is property taxpayers who are offering us this feedback and asking us to look. So, again, this is not a, of course, I always welcome response, Sheriff, but this is not a Q&A for right now. This is not a new comment from me either. I just wanted to make sure that this subject is the overtime study, but it is, of course, residing within a broader conversation among all local agencies and our residents around services, the tension with revenue and sustainability for years to come. Thank you, Sheriff.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Commissioners. We do not have a contract for VOLTA. Focus enforcement details, again, involve both county and city warrants. It's activities that is built off of data going on, typically within the city. And that's, is it once a month, twice a month, Shane? Twice a month. Twice a month. focus enforcement detail. The other thing is with the city, I will tell you that I have had conversations with both Commissioner Barnett and Mayor Jacob Fry regarding some kind of compensation for the work that we do in Minneapolis. It's my understanding that commissioners could also have those conversations with the city council. Trust me, I wouldn't turn it down. I would, though, say that the one thing that I do worry about, though, is going into any kind of contracts that will hinder the work that we can do because the sheriff's office is not under a consent decree, and that's not something that I'm willing to work under. But absent that, I am all for being reimbursed. We are doing a lot of work there, and I have started the conversations, and I actually had that conversation with a couple of the council members, and I would encourage some allyship, and maybe you guys can help move the dial on that one. I'm not going to be opposed to it. Thank you.

I did have a few more questions, and Sheriff, I didn't mean to tag on to yours, nor did I exchange text messages with you, but I have been working with staff to come up with a bar to direct our staff. I can't direct county sheriffs. I'm not going to. I'm directing our staff to really have a conversation specifically to that point. I think we're all on the same page on that. I will just share with everyone here that Minneapolis has done some good work on bringing new cadets in. They have a lot to go because they keep losing court cases on their numbers. One of my concerns is indemnification, which is a core part of our contracts, is if we roll up to a scene where there are new officers and they make a mistake, which... I'm not an officer, but I've been new at many things, and where you're new, you tend to make more mistakes. And I don't want us to be caught up, since we're self-insured, in a situation where we're on scene, something goes wrong, and we get sued along with everyone else for something that we were not primary responders. So that is a concern of mine because that does get billed to taxpayers, and I think that is protecting – all of us in this room to have that conversation. So I expect that bar will come in September. But it's really one about, I like the sheriff's term, allyship, that I think we're all on the same page. And I think that just having that conversation will be impactful. I don't know where they're going to get 100 more officers. They don't exist. I mean, there are people who are short one or two, and they're happy being short one or two. And that's a whole different ballgame. That is a complete Brooklyn Park Police Department would have to be hired by them to make that. They would have to do that. So the other things I had was just, is it possible to get 911 calls countywide? I think Commissioner Anderson kind of went down that path. I'd be curious to see, are they up everywhere? I expect they are. uh i just it would be kind of interesting to see are we floating ahead or behind and just to kind of get a sense of that are we able to do things um because i think that seeing those other psaps would be important and that would be good information i think for myself a question i had for sheriff's department was i believe it's mandated at the state level but serving papers for eviction I haven't met anybody in the Sheriff's Department who says, I love doing that. And it also is like the wrong person to serve in it, because to Commissioner Gotel's point, That's the point where our other services start to engage. And I'm wondering out loud, and I think state law says otherwise, is the idea of having people who come to the door with those services in hand. I know a couple years ago we talked about trying to get pamphlets and things like that, and that didn't happen. That wasn't under Sheriff Witt. But I'm just kind of curious. Is it like our 911 alternate response? Is it a game we want to try to get out of? And maybe we can't, I'm guessing, because of the state.

I don't think you can. It's a statutory mandate. But, sorry, chair, commissioners should know when we do know that we, when we know ahead of time that we're dealing with somebody who probably has mental health challenges or something like that, we do pair up with social services to take them to those type of calls for the ones that we know about. I think it would be impossible to have them go on all of them with us, but we do try to make sure that we have those things in place when we know that we're dealing with more than just an eviction and

And I think what I was thinking was we have found other ways to respond with other types of response to replace things. So, you know, having people have to serve papers to a person who's getting evicted, does that require a police officer? I don't think it does. It does because the state says we do. But I think nowadays that might be a good question to ask. I also wanted to give the Sheriff's Department credit on, I've done two ride-alongs where we serve warrants, which I understand are different than civil. But when we did it, we had five at one and nine at another. Because the type of warrant that the person who was getting, so it wasn't like one warrant. It was, I think, three different teams met us at one house down by the lakes in Minneapolis. And then another one in Golden Valley, we actually had the Golden Valley police was with us because the guy was a runner. And so we had to cover every exit. And he, sure enough, went out the window and met a dog. And so those, not every number is the same number. response and i just want to call that out you can't say one is one equals so um but the the last one i just had it's a request for staff is i think it would be very useful uh to get a memo um and i'll ask chela just talk about i'm stuck on this what when crime is a crime because a crime is as a victim i get something happens to me i feel like a victim that's a crime When police gets called, they show up. It's a crime. It's a response. When the data goes into courts and to our county attorney's office, a crime doesn't always mean it's a crime. If they're a 10-year-old who committed that crime, it doesn't count as a crime. If they're found incompetent, if it's a state of sentencing, if it's a diversion, does it count as a crime? So my question is, just to understand how crimes can change depending on something that happens well beyond me calling 911 and saying I got punched. Okay. Because I'm really kind of fixated on the fact that our jail is plumpful, and yet everybody says crime is down. And I'm trying to figure out how can I have these two things going on at the same time where crime is down. But one place that I know you can't say... It's bodies in a jail is a hard number, and that doesn't matter. So those things I'm kind of fixated on, and so I'm asking. I talked to Chella beforehand, so it wasn't like a surprise to her. But just to understand these differences, and when data from police goes to the BCA, it goes one way, and the county attorneys has it a different way. I just really want to understand how that data is different depending on who collects it and how things proceed through the justice system. And so I'll stop there. But I'm just fixated on that because the jail is full, and yet everyone talks about how much crime is going on. And I don't see, I think there's something else going on. I'm not saying it's nefarious. Just how can those two things be true at the same time? And I'd like to know more. So Sheriff, I'll give Sheriff first and then Joe.

Okay. No, thank you, Commissioner. First, I want to go back to the civil position. I want you to know that that is actually, it's called civil, but that's actually one of the most dangerous jobs there is because you're taking away people's livelihoods. So, I mean, just the... level of unpredictable responses is very serious. And I don't think people grasp that, but that is one of the most dangerous jobs you can have because you are talking about the livelihood. Thank you for bringing up the jail. As you might know, our jail population I believe today was 935. It has been high for quite some time, consistently. We've been over the 900 mark multiple days. So, yes, thank you for bringing up, yeah, everybody's talking about crime is down. I know when I've been out at community meetings and hearing from some people say that they don't even call because they don't know what to expect or nobody's going to show up or they're just afraid to, that's a real thing, and I don't think people are looking at that. Is it down or... Do we have less people calling? I'll call it out for what it is. But with all those things, and I'm sure Chella can fill in with the request of the other information, but the question that you have is the same question a lot of us are having, especially those first responders that are first to these scenes. Thank you. Chella, please.

Chair Lundy, commissioners, good questions. Questions that I will attempt to answer in a memo to the board as it relates to how crime is defined, how it's measured. what entities rely on certain data. So I'll try to make a nuanced response on some of the issues or the topics you've raised. Second to that, I will also work with staff to respond to the 911 data that you've requested. I think that would be informative to the board, not only in light of this discussion as it relates to staffing needs, what is ideal, what is minimum, How are we seeing an increase on the staff here in Hennepin? So I will work with staff for both of those responses and get it to the board.

Okay. And thank you for that, because I think calls for service was, I don't know about Mayor Gotell, but Mayor Lundy, that was often a chart we always got from the police department was calls for service. Fire departments measure calls for service. They don't measure the type. It's how often are we being called 911. And so just understand that. And I also know some cities try to redirect 911 to other 311. One of my former staffers went through about six weeks of circular just to get somebody to actually from her city to show up. and do something that only that person could do. So I think it's informative because I know for a hard number, the jail is full. The numbers are high. I know it's summer, but we're now getting into summer. But still, how can all these things... And I often wonder, and I'll stop here, is just the perception of crime going down lags. But if people are saying crime feels high and all these other factors are kind of... We can't weight them the same, then... Maybe it is just exactly that, that people are actually accurate in their feelings because the crime is not necessarily going down. It's just it's not showing up in the crime data. Anyway, so I'd ask Chella beforehand if we could get the board a memo on just that. I think it would be interesting for all of us to, including myself especially, I'll leave with me, could use that. Commissioner Edelson.

Well, so, because I'm a nerd, and I looked it up in the statute. So the statute actually does not say that the sheriff has to do all the service. It's Rule 4.02. It says that the... that someone needs personal service that they can use an eligible adult, the sheriff, or professional service. But I do know that in January 1st of 2026, we moved it from $80 to $100. So interesting that we do get revenue from that. I wonder how much, if we are using sworn officers, we're getting from that. Because I do think there's probably some where a sworn officer, it makes sense for them to go. And then maybe not having a sworn officer for some. But anyways, I just wanted to go on that because I think it's a really good idea. Actually, as you're, like, doing that, I'm nerding out over here. So, okay.

I want the record to show she is a nerd. Sheriff?

I'm not going to disagree with you, Commissioner. So, there's two services that we need to think about. There are services where people do, such as landlords will come and ask us to do services. But there's also court services that they do utilize the sheriff's office for. So, it's a round of things, and not everything's in the same spot as far as those kind of mandates. Okay. More info to come.

Any other questions?

Okay.

I want to thank the Sheriff's Department for the presentation.

Okay.

We'll move on. The agenda, we have a few items left. So 2A is minutes from July 28th. If I get a motion and a second.

I'll move. Second.

We have a motion and a second to approve the minutes from July 28th. Any questions, additions, corrections? Seeing none, all those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Opposed? Motion carries. The next three items, I believe, are routine. If there's no objection, I will group them. If I get a motion, second.

Second.

We have a motion second to group 3A, 3B, 3C. 3A is agreements with district court for DWI court program probation services and treatment court testing and monitoring services 10-1, 26-9, 30-27. Receivable combined of $231,000. 3B is an agreement with Osterra Initiative Minnesota Prison Doula Project, extending an end date through 9-30-27, increasing not to exceed by $56,000 for a new total not to exceed of $111,200. And finally, 3C is an agreement with Independent School District ISD-281 for GED Testing Services, extending the end date through 12-31-27, increasing not to exceed by $46,000 for a new total not to exceed of $171,000. Does anybody need background to have questions? No. We have a question. Commissioner Conley.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I'm really a big fan of the Prison Doula Project. This is item 3B. I think they do incredible work in terms of making sure that parents have the right skills that they need and the supports once they are exiting the ACF. My question was just, does this support extend beyond release? And if not, is there a perhaps warm handoff to another support system for parents who are exiting these facilities and moving back into society?

Thank you, Chair Lundy, Commissioner Connolly, and commissioners. I'd like to invite Monica Long, who's a division manager at the ACF, who can provide background and answer these questions.

ALONG SUPERINTENDENT AT THE COMMUNITY CORRECTIONS ACF. THE DULA SERVICES ACTUALLY DO EXTEND BEYOND TIME AT THE ACF, AND TYPICALLY MANY OF OUR RESIDENTS WHO ARE AT THE ACF ALSO HAVE SOCIAL WORK, SOCIAL SERVICE ATTACHMENTS AS WELL. So as part of transition planning, we do ensure that there is that warm hand up as they work to transition out of the facility.

That's great news. Thank you so much. You're welcome.

Any other questions or comments? Seeing none, all those in favor of 3A through 3C say aye.

Aye.

Opposed? Motion carries. And with that, the agenda of the Law, Safety, and Justice Committee is complete. I'll declare the meeting adjourned.