Area Plan Apc / Bza - Regular Meeting

start the March 4th, 2026 Decar County Board of Zoning Appeals meeting to open the meeting to comply with title six of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Decator County requests that participants in the meeting complete a voluntary anonymous survey. available on the table in the back of the room. First item on the agenda would be to approve the February uh 2026 minutes. Those were uh sent out uh via email or paper. Um anyone have any concerns, corrections, errors with those minutes? If not, I'll look that we approve or a motion to approve those minutes as they were mailed out. I'll make a motion to approve these minutes

and a second. I'll second a motion. Okay. Uh the petition tonight that we will hear is 2026-2. Sam Ruff is requesting a variance to change the required setback from 70 ft to 23 feet to add on to an existing garage. The request falls under Decar County Ordinance Section 945. property is currently owned by Samuel Frank Ruff and Tanya Marie Ruff and is located at 9597 East County Road 550 North Greensburg Fuga Township. Mr. Ruff, if you don't mind, please uh come on up and tell us what uh what you got going on.

Yeah, so um we've kind of exhausted all options on our property. Um we have five a little over five acres there. Um if you ever been out they call Snake Road 550 North um you'll know it's very forestry, very hilly, very you know dips and valleys. Um our septic system actually runs just south of the current uh garage. Do

we have I can point there. So the septic system is all right here. Um it really blocks the only flat land that I have. Um, the only other flat land is along the road right here. And that's where I'm proposing to build a larger building attaching to the garage there. Um, I'd like to build a 28 by 60 16 foot tall ceilings on the inside and with a lean to on the backside here. That would leave a space between the the current garage. Um, that would eliminate me from having to tear down the garage that's in really good shape. Um, and just add on to it. And then the septic system. of the fingers for the septic. Sorry, shaking. Um, the septic actually runs back through here and it's about 15 feet from where my the back of the building would be. So, it kind of eliminates that. Um, and that's that's kind of where I landed at. Um, in order to do anywhere else, it would take probably an acre of trees down and a lot of dirt movement. And the dimensions we have the 23 feet uh and the 27.9 ft is that the center of the road or is that the uh

so that'll be the center of the road because that's what the the you know easement or whatever the variance setback is measured from. Sure. And the road is very narrow. Um it's not a real wide road. Um, so when I staked it out roughly, um, the back part there where it's close to the 23 feet would be about 17 feet from the road. Um, and just to comment along that road there's tree stumps because it used to be lined with trees. So there's there's still several tree stumps that are, you know, within a foot of the road that kind of line that stretch right there. Also,

it's on the inside of a curve. That one one thing we try and look at when we when we hear these is if someone uh for whatever reason were to run off of the road. uh that that it tried to to prevent a situation where if you weren't paying attention that you wouldn't run and you know there there is a curve there uh to the east a little bit but but it's on the inside. So that that's one thing that is that is helpful for you is that uh you're not going to naturally run into it as opposed to the outside of a curve. Yeah, I would say from a safety just viewing it um with it staked out, even backing out of my driveway, there's still a clear view backing out before you ever get to the road both ways. And to the west, we actually cleared all those trees in the front that was kind of hiding that blind curve right there. So, those are all cleared out now. So, it actually opened that up so you can actually see what's coming around that curve from that side. And and essentially what this would be is it would be 28 feet off of the uh the north edge of the existing building. So what you're adding is 28 by 60 off of that that that structure. Is that right?

Yeah.

Anyone have any questions? What did you say the closest distance to the road would be from the back? So from the east side, the northeast side of the building to the center of the road is approximately 23 feet. Yeah. So it would sit right.

So the roof line would be opposite of the current garage. So the roof line, the peak would run east to west. You'd have 16 on the right side.

Do we have any adjoining property owners in here that uh would like to speak on this petition? So again, how much buffer does that leave from the edge of the road to the building itself? So I would say around 17 ft. Um, but there is tree stumps between the the road and and the building also that are still there from trees that have been cut down. If you travel that road, I mean, there's trees within a foot of the road. a lot along that whole road,

but you'll still have room to maintain the grass and whatever on that side. Yes. Yeah. And actually, the way the property drains, it will actually help me be able to create drainage to make it fall better instead of running across my driveway. and some other things. It'll it'll allow me to do some things for drainage as we all experienced with the rain the last couple days. It slopes to the south, right? Does it slope east to west at all? Like does it slope toward that curve? Does it kind of go downhill?

So, that part is about as flat as it gets. Um there we'll have to cut a little bit of dirt out. It actually raises a little bit as it goes to the um east to the east or yeah the west I'm sorry the west sorry yeah but it's I mean you're maybe a foot or two rise with the dirt. So they'll have to be cut out a little bit in order to make it flat with the current garage. Is there much of an existing ditch alongside the road now? There is no ditch. The trees are the ditch. Yeah.

And it would be 60 ft from the east edge of the existing building. Is that correct? So, so my plan is to bring it out about 4 foot so I can put a service door in front of it. So it'll come it'll butt out about four feet. And then so then you're looking about 56 feet back from the front edge and that was because of the septic system too staying the distance away from the leech lines and stuff on it.

There any restrictions to that? Okay. One guideline that I I uh try and use, Sam, is that the height of the wall to the distance uh the XY be be not upside down. You know, that if you've got a 20 foot building, it shouldn't be 10 feet off of a off of a line. you know that that you don't fight a situation where um that's just kind of a good rule and we we would be real close quite honestly

16 17 yeah I mean real close to to pushing that but um certainly understand uh the the reasoning I think you've probably probably done your due diligence here to to try and find alternatives so understand that uh any other concerns questions Mr. rough. Okay. Anything else you'd like to share? No, I think that's everything. I mean, I feel like I've exhausted all other options for that size of a building um to be able to be on the property without um quite a bit of destroying forest and a lot more money to make it happen.

I'll look for a motion that uh that we vote on 20 2026-2 if someone would like to. Make a motion that we vote on BCA 2026-2. I'll second. Okay.

All right. Thanks. It's Vote on. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. All right, Mr. Ruff, thank you for following the process. Uh, keep in mind, you know, follow for the building building uh permit process, but this this gets you through your through your varian. So,

thank you very much. Okay. Uh next item on the agenda uh is the 2025 uh BCA petition which was the cell phone tower presented by Mr. Riggs uh care of Jeff Deck. The findings of fact uh were presented to us. So um anyone have any questions or concerns with those findings of fact as they were sent to us? If not, then I'll look for a motion that we approve those findings of fact as they were sent. Do I have a motion that we I'll make do we need to vote or do we need to approve them? We need to

approve. Okay. So So uh do we need to vote on that? Approve. That'll be So we will look for a a motion to vote and ultimately approve those those findings of fact as they were sent out. So we'll look for that motion. I'll make a motion to approve those finding to approve those findings of fact. A second. Second. All in favor say I. I.

Nay. Same sign. Same sign. Okay. So all those approved as they were sent. Okay. That's the last last item on the agenda. Uh any anything else from the office, Doug, that we need to Okay, if that's all then I'll look for a motion to adjurnn. Make a motion to second. We're adjourned.

I'll call the March 4th, 2026 meeting of Dec Decar County Area Planning Commission to order to comply with title six of the Civil Rights Act 1964 Decar County request. The participants in this meeting complete a voluntary anonymous survey that is available on the table at the back of the room. First item on our agenda is the approval of the February 4th minutes. Everyone should have received those. Anyone have any additions or corrections? Hearing none, I'll look for a motion to accept.

I'll make a motion to accept the February 4th minutes as read. I'll second it. All those in favor say I.

Oppose. Nay. Next item on our agenda, Decar County Redevelopment Commission. Don Schilling. We have to review an addendum. Good evening. The U re redevelopment commission has uh proposed a fifth addendum to our economic development plan. That addendum would allow us to provide funding to both Greensburg and all the Greensburg and Decair County schools for educational purposes. Uh we are we have done that in the past but on the the earlier addendums only were very specific projects and this one is a much wider one where we can entertain more additional projects and also not have to go through the whole process again. So that's what we are proposing is to uh and you can see down there it's in the bottom it says assist the schools in funding education including computers and other equipment needed. So that's what we're proposing to do to amend our our economic development plan. Any questions from anybody?

Doug to confirm this will just be one reading or required. Okay. So, we would need a motion and approve questions or comments from the board. Duly noted. Any other comments or questions? Any questions from the public regarding this? Hearing none, I'll look for a motion to approve.

I make a motion to approve the um addendum to the redevelopment commission. I'll second it. Okay. All those in favor say I. Those nay. There you go, Don. Thank you.

Okay. Our first petition, APC petition 2026-3. John Deal requesting to sub subdivide two tracks out of 94.09 acres. Track one being approximately 6 acres and reszone 2.99 from A1 to A2 zoning and track two being approximately 6.5 acres and reszone 2.99 from A1 to A2. Request falls under Decar County Ordinance section number 915 and 920 sub77. property is owned by the petitioner and is located across from 7687 North County Road 550 East Rushville and Fugat Township. John, if you would like to take the podium and explain your project to us. Okay. So, um the land there that you see is mostly wooded and contains a natural drainage area. Um it is not tillable uh ground and has no practical agricultural value. Uh a residence uh used to be on the far northeast um uh end of the of the property there. So it has had uh a exist existing uh home in the on that property at one time. Um but um uh my request simply continues the rural residential pattern and does not really change the character of the area.

Have any questions from the board? two two. So the big rectangles are the lots and the small yellows are the reason. Is that right? Correct. So you're just wanting to they're labelled as sell those off and let somebody develop them, right? Put a home. They'd be for large single family homes.

They're labeled as one and two, Ryan. There are two soil tests. They they're labeled as lot one and one two. So far, have a separate driveway for each.

Yes. anything from the board. Nothing. I'll ask for any public comment or concern. Anyone that has any can take the podium. John, you can have a seat first. Okay. There was a resident on the north end of that property. Go ahead and state your name. So Debbie's got it. It's Walter Moore with Morland, Inc. Go ahead.

And there's tillable ground along the roadside there. I've been cutting hay off of it for the last five or six years. And when I attempted to build my house, the board wouldn't let me because I was building it on farm ground. However, I was able to grandfather in my residence, but there's no grandfathering in on that property other than on the north end. That's about all I've got to say.

Anyone else? Hearing none, then I'll entertain a motion. Move that we vote on APC petition 2026-3. Have a second.

I second. This is correct. The votes for petition Yes. Yes. Your petition passes. Make sure you stay in touch with the office as you start down your path. It will it will have to go in front of them to make it formal. So that will be the next step. And once that's done that we won't do that until

Okay. Next item on the agenda, APC petition 2026-4. Daniel and Talilu requesting to subdivide approximately 1.5 acres out of 16 acres and reszone from an A1 zoning classification to an A2 zoning classification to build a single family detached dwelling. This request falls under Decar County ordinance section number 915 and 9277. Property is owned by the petitioners and is located across from 5835 West County Road 240 West Greensburg and Clay Township. Daniel, you want to come up and tell us about your project?

So, we've got 16 acres there. Um, we're just wanting to reszone acre and a half just to put our a house for us, not for resale, just so we can build us a single family dwelling there. So, Yeah, it's in here.

Any questions or comments from the board as you look through this? So, what u explain a little bit on the driveway?

Uh, it's got an existing driveway there, but on the preliminary driveway inspection, they we've got to move it down. I don't know if you can I I can't see the picture. So, there's a there's an old windmill there um and a kind of a some trees and stuff. We've got to move it to the other side of that. I guess my concern is that's northwest 240 is getting pretty heavy traffic and that's just top of the hill. That's why they had us move it down on the so they had 400 feet or whatever it was for the if you go down any further then it really blocks the hill side and like I said there there's an existing driveway there

but and I understand not using that one just because of the visibility but where where they've got it marked on the other side of that windmill is really about the best place for it. I mean with visibility. I mean from there you can see down the hill towards the bridge and then also the other ways.

Yeah. And it looks like Todd cleared that. Yeah. And he made the request. Yeah, I'm sure he met with Todd out there. Yeah. Yep. He, like I said, he and he spray painted on the road as well, so we knew where where to where to put the driveway. Way they used to do it, they would take a cone, put it in spot, drive from both directions, and as soon as he saw the cone, he'd stop and mark it. They would measure to confirm.

Yeah, he picked the spot where where it needs to be. So, Yeah, it's kind of hard to tell from that, but there is, like I said, there between that little scrub woods there and there is an existing drive, but like I said, it's got to move down according to him. So,

gone. Yeah. I couldn't even tell you. So what was the minimum distance with a cone which is down here? Okay. That's how they determine as soon as they see it.

Driveway is the only thing I and I and I'm very familiar with that road. Oh, it's it's becoming a racetrack down through there. I've even been Yeah. clipped at the bottom of the hill before. So, yeah.

Yeah. Like I said, where he's got a mark at is I mean, when we pull out of there, we've been we were been out there and kind of cleaning up a little bit and we've used his mark that he's put and can you can see a lot better than the one the existing driveway that's there. You can actually see down the hill and over the bridge and, you know, around that bend. So, Any other concerns from the board? Hear none. I'll open it up to any public comment if anyone has any.

You can come up to the podium. All I ask is where approximately do you think? Well, I I mean it's I know you probably don't know right in the center that little scrub woods right that butts up to the road. Okay. Yeah. So, that little scrub woods there. The house is going to be like right in this area. So, just just off the point of that little scrub woods there. So,

that's only I'm just wondering where Yeah. Yeah. It'll be right. Like I said, there's that's a hill. That's the kind of like the top of the hill right through there, the ridge and it goes downhill down here. But the house will be right in that area just right up by that by that wood. So this one be pretty much right where you put the driveway in. The driveway comes in about where that arrow is. The existing one's over here.

The new one will be about where that arrow is probably. And then it kind of it'll it'll probably just pretty much caddy corner right from there to the garage doors on the house. So, anything else public comment wise? Anything from the board? Entertain a motion. I move we vote on APC petition 2026-4.

I second for decision-m Yes. Yes. Yes.

Daniel, thank you. And make sure you stay in touch with the office as you get everything started. Okay. Okay. Now we will move into the Decar County Revitalization Project show cause hearing. Everyone received the four items in their packet for this. Um I'll go into a little bit of detail. Doug and I and Missy spoke about this. Grab that door. can steam a bit louder.

And yeah, and basically all of these or all of the items have been served already. Yes.

And the point of this hearing is for them to have the public opportunity for whether they have or have not cleaned up. Um, I think you actually had seven total out of this first batch. Three have already proceeded through, started clean up and have things going in that direction. Um, with the four petitions that we have, Doug has not seen that progress. So, they've been invited to this show cause hearing. It will be our responsibility to determine if we provide them with more time or if we just let it go because Even if we provide more time than it is still at Doug's discretion, if we give them 15 days, say, if nothing has happened, it will then proceed on to court regardless. So, it won't come back here at any time after this. This will be

this will be this will be the only time that they have the show cause for the public portion. So we would have the opportunity if we see fit to extension

to grant an extension but that is the end of basically per the revitalization ordinance. So the first one is R2026-1 Josh Fields and if Josh is here if he could come up and speak and if they are not here I believe if you want to explain your due process then we can just go ahead and confirm a vote and it will proceed. So this this property is along Highway 3 um by Sandeski um right outside of Sani. This property has received letters going back to 2018, April 6, April 16th of 2018, uh with multiple uh letters to to clean up that property. Um so we got to the process with this property. I was going to take it in front of the commissioners last year, but we were making the changes to the ordinance. Missy's advice was to not do that at that point and uh until we got the ordinance in place. So, I've been out there. I I took the initial pictures and then I was out there. I served them. We served them. Gave them the days. I went back out there to to look at the property. has clean started. So now they did come in and pay the fine. Um but person that came in to pay the fine was not the property owner.

And just to be clear, um all of these are from complaints. In other words, this is not from we're not going out looking for right. There has to be a formal complaint that comes in to your office, correct? To initiate, right? So, if if you have a complaint and come in, well, the property next to me is just as bad as mine. Well, there's we're just talking about this property. We're not talking about that one because hasn't been formed. And they would have the opportunity to file a complaint on the neighboring property. Yes. So if there are no show this evening then our process is

we will move to taking them. Okay. So we just it just skips our process and moves. Well, we're essentially this is just a show cause hearing. So the only process we would have would be to grant them a little more time, right? Yes. Regardless of being started, this is just delaying maybe. Yes. So, in other words, if we give them the time, then they do clean it up. It wouldn't go to court. If we give them the time and it's not cleaned up, it goes to court. Being a no-show, it goes we just basically a voice call on a vote and then it goes on.

And what does that timeline look like, Doug? So, so like this one that that dates back to 2018. um if if if nothing happens, he's maybe not present, not going to show up and and we agree that if he's not contesting it, you know what what's the is the timeline different for each one of these or all of these initi? It'll be about the same time. So if all these move forward is setting up the court dates all at the same time'll be next month. Okay. Then however long the court takes, whether it's 30 days, 60 days before they set the hearing, that'll be up to them. But most likely we've already kind of rescheduled in like Friday afternoon hearings.

I see. I see. And it'll be it will be judge pass. Okay.

So likely looking at two months before it may actually see a time court at that point. grants the order for us to go clean up whe then be sent to the property owner to pay for that cost and then if that bill isn't paid and it will then be placed on the property tax. Okay, I will look for a motion on R 2026-1.

Make a motion on R26-1. All those in favor say I. I oppose. Nay. Okay, that one moves on. R 20226-2, Marilyn Moore and Chastity Campfield. Do we have a representative? Okay, come on up and

so basically you need to justify why you would need more time. Well, for one, the weather was bad and I was out there working and then we got the big snowstorm. Now we have all this rain. I was out on Saturday working in the yard and of course the yard is so soft. I have bad legs. I'm falling around out there. So, I'm trying to get it all cleaned up.

And um my mowers did break last year. I've never had an issue with my yard ever being bad and stuff. And I got the parts for my mower. It just has to be put on and stuff. I have a smaller mower. I can't drive it. It's too small and it has to push a gas and my legs cannot do that. And I did hell off a bunch of the cars. They were my sons. And then there's another truck out there that does not belong to me. And I told them they had 30 days to get it off my property or I'm having off and that they need to get it gone now.

So I feel like in this instance since we do have some progression, we would want to grant some time. In looking at the weather forecast, we need to kind of bear in mind that 15 days isn't probably going to get you. No, cuz we got rain. Yeah. Every day this week and then next week, too. And I'm like, I'm really trying to get it cleaned up. And a lot of the stuff that was Yeah. at my property, like there was a motorcycle, a bunch of M motor mower stuff. My lovely neighbor next door gave them to my son. And where are they going to end up? Right over next door to my property. So, I've called a lot of that off, too. Okay.

Doug, what do you think timelinewise you're comfortable with um into April? I mean, that's I I would rather see that just because of the weather and the fact that everything is in the yard. I mean, a hard time getting those out of the yard. Yes. So, you feel that's fair. Is that Yes. Yep. first 2025 August

and I held off a bunch of cars then and I started working on the mower getting the M area cut up and so I I couldn't hear you. Sorry. Probably a dozen mowers in Yeah. and only one of those were the neighbors the ones the neighbor gave my son that needs to be hauled off. I'm not I'm not saying we don't but you were notified in 2025 and then what happened after that? I fell and got hurt.

Sorry. I fell and got hurt. And basically to clarify at the end of that 60 days it goes to court if it's not if the action hasn't been taken to satisfy and that is Doug's discretion. So any other thoughts from the board is good. I think it makes sense. I appreciate the efforts. moving towards it.

And I think the way that we set the ordinance up, it pretty much is you got it. It's a terminal clause, you know, I mean, we're going to grant some time, but if it's not met, yeah, once time is grant granted here. Yeah. Not an extension. You understand? Yes. So, an extension was not granted. There was no ordinance in 2025. There's never been a hearing. Never been a hearing. Yeah. Yes. That was before the ordinance. Well, that was actually right when the ordinance was enacted. Yeah. The ordinance got

September October. assign us the ability to And there really wasn't a due process set up like there is now. So that's why we created the ordinance.

Yeah. It it simplifies the process and it calls it all out in a formal fashion. Whereas before it would just be the commissioners making a recommendation and there wasn't really any teeth to it. Yes. So that is clear and April's it'll be clean before then. It's over. Yes, it'll be clean before then. Satisfactory then it proceeds on. Just want to make sure that yeah understand I understand. Yes.

You know the I'll look for a motion if you guys want to add the 60 days. Sure. So, I would make a motion that we vote on R 2026-2 granting a 60-day extension. Uh, so that would end up being five for 2026. Correct. So, at that point, I assume Doug would would do a driveby or something as they provided pictures to us now. At that point, if it's satisfactory, then this disappears, I guess, if it's send a letter. Send a letter. Okay, perfect.

Okay. So, understand the terms. Okay. So, I vote uh or I move that we vote on 2026-2 granting a 60-day extension. I second. All those in favor say I. I. Oppose. Nay. Okay. You have extension. Okay. You thoroughly understand the Yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Next item, R2026-3. Gary Freeze. Have anyone here to represent that one? Doug, if you would like to just give us a few details on that one.

This property is out at Lake McCoy. Uh, it has received letters going back to May of 2024, February 20, March 20.5. I went out similar to that. This is certificate.

Did I see where those were returned? Is that right? The the return is when the sheriff brings it back to me. So So I make two copies. One says serve, one says return. The surf he takes to them

and then he brings back the he takes the serve, gives it to them and then brings back Any other questions on this one? Not a motion to move it on the procedure. Have a second. I'll second it. All those in favor say I. I.

Oppose. Nay. That one moves on. The last one on the agenda is R 2026-4, James Hoskins. And if we have a representative for that one, if they could take the podium. Okay. If you could take the podium and explain your progress or

Well, um, when this started, you know, um, I received pictures of just not what I own. And I'm thinking they assume I own more than I do is why they're picking up on some of the junk ain't cleaned up or or uh or I ain't clean nothing up because I I've uh I've cleaned up all the lumber pile and I've cleaned up my can pile and I have got rid of a washer and dryer and microwave. Ain't got rid of old taros yet because I just ain't found no way to get rid of it. But right now I stand as this talking about having all that stuff. I don't have all that stuff around. I only own lot 11 and I and I got a truck and stuff that ain't license insured but they all run and I don't have no license right now. That's a different story. But you know a obscene thing I think it mentions on here is I think it's my wood pile where I burn wood and I got covered with tarps. My wood splitters under it. My push mower. I have things you need really, you know. And I got a water barrel. It's that ugly blue, but I can't help that a bit, you know. But but um I don't think I got nothing unnecessary and I don't know. I just don't know any other way to defend myself here on

So I think in this instance a lot of this is we've got vehicles on the road, right? So are are this this property is owned by James? His name's on deed, too. I ain't never transferred it all into my name, but it's paid for. Okay. Now, it's still still under James Hospital name. Both of us is Yeah, I paid the taxes have for the last 25 years. Uh but vehicles on the road, I don't got no vehicles on the road.

Just so just so we're clear, according to the county records name. Yeah, land contract. I bought on contract on the property record card. They did not signify that as well. I just want to make sure him or me. This is my situation, you know. But I don't got no cars on the road. I don't know how they come up with that.

Will be on this lot. I have uh two trucks and one 4Erunner and a Ford Explorer and they all run. I just don't got no license. Like I said, that's a different story, you know. So, the house and and the immediate around there is all that you own. Israel's garage. Old Israel's garage behind there, right? That ain't mine. No, that's not yours. No, mine my property line is that big rusty barn. Yep.

Is probably there's an alley between me and him right there. And since it ain't been used, it's like he owns half of it and I own the other half. So, we just kind of agree to disagree and be friends and all's good. I just want to make sure. Then the other side of the property line is just about smack in the middle of the both two houses.

And I got rock that identifies the line. Well, it is operable. You know, it's unlicensed. Ain't no doubt. I don't got

Well, that means I got to get rid of everything I got. Well, I can't afford that yet, you know. I can't afford to do that yet. So you said unlicensed and inoperable as it has to be both. Just so be clear. Yeah. It has to be both. So if they do run, you said they all run. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So So it's okay then. Is that what you're saying? How do you believe that? Well, that that's a rabbit hole you go down. But if they run, they're able to be moved. So on. So is okay. This is a a street view of of the

Yeah. Turn it right there a little bit. It's a glare on it for me. Those those vehicles are I mean the front Well, they're moved from that. That that happened when it first started. So, they've moved since Yeah, they're all facing east. East and west now. The pictures slightly moved. Okay.

East and west. They're facing east and west now. That is before we pay the road. What I think that one So if if they move every week, does that make them does that change? So we're here now. The first round of this was in June 24th and we're here now and our decision is giving more time to clean it up.

Well, and basically it's it's already enacted. So, right, it our our only real decision would be to give him more time unless there was we could sway Doug to be convinced that this wasn't a nuisance. Am I correct in saying that? That's my question. But this ain't a mess. Right. Right. Right. Because sounds to me like you're saying it's not junk. You're it's

well if it runs and you know it can back you up later to save a dime or make a dime or live in America like kind of like you know uh I don't see why a guy couldn't have it. I mean I ain't selling parts and junk or nothing. I think the proximity to the road with vehicles that don't move that often is more of the issue. Why would it make any difference if I was a guy just moved them around to satisfy somebody for it? Well, you know what? That ain't you're actually not on your property because your property line does not go to the road.

Well, like I said, that's a different picture. They're spacing east and west now and they're off the road. How much the county owns from the road to it's my property line? I have no clue. It's quite a bit the way that that ride ofway is still set up because you're in town. Well, that's something we both would have to know. And yeah, I can move them. Yeah. In other words, if they weren't in front of the barn, huh? If they weren't in front of the barn, this probably Can you get them in the barn?

Not and do things in the barn. No. But, you know, if if the problem is they're too close to the county line, I can find somewhere to put them other than where they're at. Can you get two of them in the barn? I got one in the barn already that's antique and that's the best one of the bunch and that's but the ones that we're looking at here in these pictures. Well, that's why I can't put any more in there. It's got one bay that I can work in. It's got other bay one car in it and I can't put them upstairs or nothing. I understand. looking for an answer.

Well, essentially it's already in motion. The only thing that we can give you is some more time to solve that problem. So, well, you know, I don't want to throw nobody up on the table and give any comparison on nobody else, but you know, um, you know, and from dates that you give people to and I I've heard that, you know, we start kicking the can down the road and changing things up because we can get some things done, you know, but you know, you know, there's a trash pile, then there's not a trash pile, you know. There's ne necessary stuff to have to help you down the road, you know.

I think it's just how you display it. Well, I don't know any other way to I don't think I got the biggest issue as most of these people's got the But he's cleaned up a bunch. I mean, if he if it was one to 10, he's cleaned up eight to what it was, you know, on Dave over there. But I ain't here to speak for him.

And so if they're not licensed and you know, we can give him time to get them licensed or they got to go away or he's got to get them inside. That's the only options. Speaking of which, sorry. Is the trailer still there? The motorcycle trailer? Yeah. Yeah. There's also a trailer on the side of the road.

Now, I guess so. My question would be to you as far as what this board can do. If we give you more time, do you plan to get them licensed? Or should we just let this move on to a judge? Then you can defend yourself there and see what he decides. I plan on the only option we got. We can talk about this for days. Well, I plan on getting licensed when I can afford it, but not for all of them at the same time. I can't get it all at the same time, but maybe one here and one there or something like that, but every one of them

that works for you to get them licensed or moved off of that property. Well, I'd be going up probably licensing one of them, getting rid of the rest since I have to, you know, since uh you know, that's the way it's got to be. I guess I'd have to either try to get rid of them and plan on licing one of them. One I keep get from place to place. You know, the only ability our board has is to give you more time to get compliant. And with the county ordinance being that they either have to be lic, they have to be both licensed and operable, we can grant you more time to get that done. If not, then I guess it's a discussion for the judge

and you could plead your case to the judge. Yeah. And just to be clear, it's inoperable unlicensed vehicles. And you're going to treat everybody the same, too, right? Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. From town to country to my town, right? Or the county. Okay. Well, they've got a lot of clean up to do then, don't we? Yeah. You know, so I don't know when you guys aren't getting tired of pushing, but I don't want to be the only one being pushed on, though. You know, that's the intent of this. Well, I'm I'm yet to see it. Yet to see that. I hear that a lot, but

Well, yeah. hear it again. I ain't going to quit until I see it, you know, and I want to get along with everybody, but I I think that this stuff that is being pushed is just a little bit too much because it helps a poor man down the road. I don't know how wealthy any any of you guys are, but this kind of stuff helps the poor a little bit to take the load off. You know, I want to clarify something that that I hear you. I do. I hope what what because that man up there can

What this board does is receives a complaint from the public, we go out, take a picture of it, and then possibly grant an extension. See, that's what I I I forgot all about that. I can't believe someone's complaining on me, actually. I mean, that's just several times. Oh, yeah. Man, it'd be me then. Yeah. So, in other words, this Doug is not going around hunting these properties down. He has to receive formal complaints.

And and and to finish that, what we do is potentially grant an extension. We don't make the call yes or no whether this cleanup occurs. A judge does that. So, so we don't say you haven't done it. We're sending a dumpster out. The area plan board, this board does not make that call. All we do is hear it and then potentially grant an extension, but the process is through the through the court. Is that correct? Yeah. But you're still hooked to the same chain pushing the same thing as same group. You know, that right there don't chain nothing up for me. You know that the same people push the same thing.

Okay. Well, back to Ryan's point. The only thing that we could do is grant you time. Well, I I receive it. And how much time you going to give me? I mean, this guy, the first guy I heard, he I know we ain't kick can down the road, but he started in 2018 or something, right? Yeah. It's going to court now. And but if I was to give that much time, that'd be a long time. But you ain't kicking the can down the street no more. Trying to get something done. I understand that. Yeah, it's a different world than it was. I know you guys are trying to change it. the the ability to to to make any enforcement at all has only occurred in within the last several months.

Yeah. You know, I can understand you guys just getting talk talking, you know. Yeah. I mean, the creator gets started talking. So, how many days do you think you would need? I don't know. Well, you you give that lady what? Two months. What' you give the guy who ain't here? How long did you give him? None. He's going to court. He's Well, he don't got no rope at all. Huh?

I don't know. I don't know. I don't ask for no more than she got. Or if you don't want to give me that, just give me a time. And you know, I can't if I end up with one vehicle not license insured or trailer and motorcycle. What What then? Is that okay or not? The trailer needs to be licensed. What about the motorcycle in it? that's inside the trailer. We can give you a buy on that. A buy. You won't need a a current registration on the motorcycle that's inside the trailer or inside the building. But if it needs So if I was like the neighbor and build and put everything in it, I'd be okay. Huh.

Exactly. Right. Well, for I don't got that kind of money. Unimportant. Depend on how you look at it. if it will help you. Yeah. Um I can't turn it down. I mean, if it if I ain't done by the time you give me, I guess it have to take the next step, which then you would have the opportunity to make that argument with the judge. Yeah. Yeah. I'd take time. You hurt me. Think about a little bit. Second. Yes. Is it like

y So the the paperwork needs to state that instead of like it does because it is missing understanding. Oh, well, I didn't know if you read it before, but I I had. So, we have a motion on the table for a 60-day extension. That's been seconded. All those in favor say I. I. I. Oppose. Nay. So, you have 60 days to make some resolution and Doug will follow up and if it's not done by then, it will go in front of a judge. Fair enough. Thank you. Thank you.

And that was the last item on our agenda. Doug, do you have anything? I don't. Okay. Um, the only thing I thought of was we had discussed, you and I had discussed about this ordinance and your the way that we ended up setting it up. So, going further, if you have to serve someone that has not had prior, right? All of these have had prior, right? In other words, the new ones that come up basically, they got 15 days, right?

And It didn't really give Doug much leeway like in this time of the year when somebody which I think the cases that you have that are working you're I mean how is that working out the the cases that I that I have um are still a lot of prior so but I'm saying the ones that like out of the the three that are actually doing something in other words once Do you see that action? Yeah. All three of those we've signed off and they're done. So, they're happy. Yeah. Um

we we sent out we served four yesterday and I talked to three out of three out of the four and I put a plan together for three out of four. So, they won't come to as long as they meet what I've asked them to do then they won't come to an area which I feel confident that they will. So, on the flip side of that, it's an automatic $500 fine. Right. Exactly. And that was the one that kind of put you in a sticky spot because if someone if if they acted immediately and cleaned it up, they've still got the $500 fine. No. If the fine comes after the 15 days, the way it reads, it's actually the same time. Yeah. So,

so the minute they get served, they they $500. Is that their first notice on it, too? That's their first. Yeah. So that's where I didn't have a problem with him granting leniency on that $500 fine if somebody immediately responded and said we're going to get it cleaned up. They have that flexibility. So from our conversation with Missy, if if somebody if somebody if we if they get their first notice and say they have 15 days to clean it up or it's a 500 it's a $500 fine and it has to be cleaned up in 15 days. they call me and say, "Hey, what's going on here? I this is what my plan." I can give them the 15 days and not and wait to find. Okay. Okay.

I just wanted to clarify that because we'll get asked these questions. 500 stuff happened. When we were putting it together, we wanted to get Missy and I both worked as well as people on the on the committee. We wanted to put some teeth in it. we're getting their attention. But I feel like I mean it's also given me some as long as you've got that leeway that if they take action right away and clean it up and people learn that one in Bernie and he had 30 days and I went by there the other day and he's got dumpsters out in the front yard. He's put on a new front porch and he's put on a new So I mean it's

it's working. It's it's and we probably got well He was talking. He's right next to Israel. He's he'll be guarantee he'll be next. Israel. Is that still Israel? Yeah. And they've been served that place. Yeah. Oh, is it?

I've got mixed emotions. I'll be honest with you. I mean, some is still still the land of the free. Um, so, so there there is some there there is some discomfort that I have about pushing real hard and I think some of these people probably couldn't afford to rent a dumpster to be honest with you. So, so um, ideally from my stand and I I I also I'm probably known to be too soft and when you're too soft, you're not going to get attention either. So,

um, it would seem like what would happen is here's your first here's your first warning. Nothing happens for now. And I I think I don't think a month is too long of a period of time for somebody to gather up 400 bucks to be able to have best way drop. You have some resources that you can steer them towards as far as any help with the cleanup. I mean,

South Eastern Indiana regional plan would be the only one that I could think of, but we have during our redevelopment meetings and discussions. Um, I feel like it would be it would be a good opportunity for the county, for example, Clarksburg, they got the everybody knows about the rat problem and the county the commissioners dropped off three dumpsters in Clarksburg and you'll be amazed at the difference made just by putting and I'm thinking why don't we just do that, you know, once a year drop off a dumpster at Bernie and say this is dumpster weekend and I bet we'd be really surprised about how many people would that dumpster and clean it up. I think that would make some inroads as well, but that's that's just an idea that

Well, I just know the push back we're going to get as this gets implemented, which I agree with Paul. It's there's a fine line there. Yeah. Yeah. I think the ones that we're dealing with right now, they've been we've been dealing with this for a long time. If you blow me off for six freaking years, that one is a little I would agree. If your first if it's your first time out here, work with you all day long. As long as as long as I'm not just up here talking. Yeah. If you show me progress, show me, don't tell me. And we'll look at you in two weeks. We'll look at you in three in two months. If there's progress, we will work together. If there's no progress,

well, unfortunately, that's the way it's set up. I mean, all this is all we do and we're out of it. And I guess but that's my my point is that some of these have been here for this one for eight years. Yeah. Sandusky is Sandusky. If I drove past Sandusky right now thinking I was going to move somewhere, it wouldn't be Sanduski. And and that hurts everybody around there because one guy can't keep his crap out of his yard. I agree. So So there's, you know, it it's it's there's there's more than just it's more than just the guy that's standing up in front of us. maybe if he was to show up that's getting hurt. There's people all around him that their property values are just trash because their property looks like crap. Yeah.

And and they have some, you know, they got rights, too. No, I I don't disagree. No. to speak to that. When I first started here a little excuse, so so maybe they didn't blow you off. Maybe there was conversation and they just and they reaccumulated. Is that kind of what what what you're saying? Nobody really Nobody knows.

So the grant that we received to fund the court costs is where we now have teeth. The commissioners did not want to spend the money to have the court hearing. But now that we've been granted this money and and for whatever reason, I'm sure it has to do with housing and the housing shortage lights huge topic. There's a lot of money being pushed out through like the ready program that I can put together.

And this program in Jennings County is now self sustainable. They started this exact program. How long ago, Doug? Three, four years. It's probably been four years ago. and it's paying for itself because they're basically taking the properties. In other words, it goes to that point. It gets put on their tax bill. They don't pay that tax. Eventually, there's a sheriff sale. The county takes it, sells the property on top of the fees collected.

Country that was their basically the plan to kind of clean up. a bigger bigger like McCoy. Yeah. Much much better. It takes as much effort. It takes as much effort to have a crappy place as it does to have a nice place. Honest to God. I mean, I work hard to keep my place spotless and they work hard to just keep accumulating. So, it it it's a it's a battle. But, you know, like this guy, why we have five vehicles? Yep. No driver's license.

So, how many can you drive at one time? None. I don't like having lots of vehicles, too. But yours are out by the road. And they probably all have a light. I I think what I what I started with earlier, what I wanted to say was when these people come in here, I don't want them to feel like they have no direction to turn. They can't afford a they can't afford a dumpster at this time or whatever that is. Um, but also can't they know they can't do this inside of of a month or something like that. And I I don't like the $500 in two weeks. I mean, it'd be pretty tough to do a lot in this kind of weather in two weeks time. And the other side is for 500 bucks, they could get their dumpster.

So, if they had Yeah. If you give them if we had if they had a little latitude, I'd rather see them spend 500 bucks on a dumpster. Yeah. Absolutely true. Well, and if they did, then Doug wouldn't charge them$500. In other words, if they had a rolloff sitting there in a week, but if it was if if if we had 14 and 12 inches of snow on the ground, Yeah. bringing a dumpster out doesn't do anything but but pdeium and your and your daily charges rack up and then all of a sudden 500 is is 800. Yeah. I mean, I struggle with the fact that somebody's going to lose their place over a few thousand bucks, but they can keep it.

You know what? You know, I mean, that part's really tough. But in in in his position with no driver's license and three vehicles sitting outside in the yard, that's a savings account. It's self-inflicted. It's it's absolutely self-inflicted and probably the reason why he got caught on. He's probably out there 2 a.m. rather Yeah. Who knows? Yeah. Because Yeah. Any any property you look in you look at in Bernie could have been standing there tonight. I almost every property I drove through there today. Almost everything. I have to disagree. I think you and Mike work harder in your place than what this guy does.

I I know. Yeah. You said it takes just as much effort to make it look like that as it does yours. I think I think you and Mike might work harder. Yeah. More effort. She's volunteering to help. Okay. Any more discussion? Yes. And by the way, this is Sam. Sam's our new parttime in Sam. project. So, should have done that before the meeting. Yes. Is there a way to Well, it's going to have to be zoning. Yeah. You can't put a car dealership in a

res You can put you can put one car at a time out there and sell it. They got a lot of cars. If they're turned in, then we're going to send them a letter.

I think you can That's what I was thinking. Is that right? And there has to be some has to be some allowance there. Yeah. I mean, you can put a car out in your front yard. Another one. Turn around. But legally, there is a number. Yeah, I think that probably kicks in before the I don't know how many it is. I'm not sure what Oh, David Israel.

There you go. Low mileage. I'm not part of this. Can Can we confirm too, not to split hairs here, is it for sure? Because in my opinion, it does make a difference if these truly are operable vehicles or not. Do they have to be licensed and operable? Do we 100%. It's not I mean if these things if these things I thought it was licensed or straight straight from the straight from the ordinance. It was I would think they'd have to be licensed regardless. Yeah. The the problem there becomes operable. Define operable because we we don't have state inspections. So does mean

or occupant of any real estate including vacant lots in Kar County outside incorporated cities and towns shall maintain such premises to prevent the accumulation of inoperable unlicensed vehicles. It is great I understand to me that's that is stated as an and so if it's if it's inoperable and unlicensed that would Understood. Igorable. But who determines both? I mean, you're going to have to go out and knock on the door, say, "Hey, you got the keys to that shit." Moving forward

85, but it has a license firewood from the That's what made me think about this. I thought, man, I got a couple trucks the dog at certain times are inable. But if it starts, a lot of it has to do with the visibility. That's what I tried to get through this guy's head. If they weren't parked on the road, that easement probably goes right in front of that barn. The way that it looked on Beacon, it's right there. So, he's in county property. Yeah, which he didn't. If he would have been behind the barn, clean some shrubs up, nobody would have had the issue.

I pulled the street view up from several years ago and it didn't look that bad. The previous street view. Yeah, the older one for the road. And I do have a question that that issue Clarksburg that you mentioned where they dropped off the dumpsters being the small town rep. What could be the steps of doing that? Because I think that'd be a massive benefit. It would it would I mean it would have to the money's got to come from somewhere to pay for the dumpsters like who would and in that case it was the commissioners but it was granted because there was a health issue in Clarksburg. So so we could set up program commissioners pay for it. They have like a once a year thing.

That's probably where it would have to come from. Would that need to come from you or could like me would the small town the the DO County revitalization project would probably be that committee proposing it to commission the best route. Yeah, I think it'd be phenomenal. I know. Every time I said a dumpster anywhere, people were throwing stuff away in it. motor and a we have ours anywhere. You ought to do street projects. I used to have one outside my shop in India and there's nothing% of mine. We have ours at home.

AI says that you can sell up to 11 motor vehicles in Indiana in a 12 month period without three weeks ago. We rolled there, had it dropped off on a Friday. So that that's that's a good that's a good example of let's say that you truly can. I mean, if I wanted to push you aside, say these eight vehicles sitting out here, I'm not licensing them. They're for sale, but they all start and run and drive and technically I'm allowed to sell up to 11 vehicles a year. I'm not saying it's right. What I'm saying is we need to be prepared because I think we're going to have this conversation quite a lot coming up about vehicles sitting around. But our position at that point is tell it to the judge and let him make that call.

We're not the ones that that we're not the executioner on that one that you say, "Okay, you've got 60 days to come into compliance to to his satisfaction or it goes to the judge and you tell him your story." But we have the we have the right, I think, to say it's sat it has been satisfied. Is that correct? Does so? Like if he says, "Hey, I've got these four cars sitting out there. They're for sale." Right. At that point, we could say that's the end of it. Okay. Or no. So, we need to decide, would we push that on to a judge or But in 60 days, it shouldn't be the same four cars. Yeah. That's where it goes to Doug's discretion, right? Yeah. You know, and if he sees that they haven't moved and the tires are still flat, well, it goes on to the judge.

And that's and that's probably the right way to handle it. But, and I'd say a lot goes back to demeanor and presentation, too. Yes. Mhm. If they come in here like this gentleman, he was all right and everything else. If somebody comes in and they're calling us everything under the sun is then obviously just send it straight to court. Yeah. My concern with this guy was he has no plan. I mean, he's not he's not going to do anything. I mean, that was my issue. I mean, give me a date. How much time you need? Well, give me what the other guy got. Yeah. which is fine because we showed a little leniency, but the process is still going to go through. You know,

it's it's still we just we kicked a can, but the way our ordinance reads, it's it's not kicked. It it just isn't. There isn't. He's going to he'll end up in front of a judge and he'll argue the same thing and then it's a judge's decision. Was it movie? I've been on this. But I don't know how you deal with him when he doesn't even own the property. twice, three times a year. That is really tricky. Well, I've that's Yeah, I'm gonna have to talk to Missy about that because that's technically not served

draw. How was Hoskins served? Because you served him at at this guy's address. No, it was served at that guy's address. Hoskins is there. It was served at the correct address. That guy just sounds like he lives in the house to me. You know what? You can do that. So So Hoskins does live in that house. It got served at that address that needs it. It got served versus it got served at Hoskins residence. And what I'm saying it

No, I I'm sorry. You're right. It got served at 1145 South County Road. That's what's shown as the T. So, what we do is we serve it to the address that the property owner lives at because some of these are rentals, right? So, in this case, it's saying Hoskins is living in the same house that we serve, right? This guy's probably living in the house. That's what I typed into my phone to get me there. So, does the owner know that he's even been served and and that according to this, the owner has been served, but that guy that came here and presented, he probably was served I'm guessing. But how'd he get fine? I wanted it to be I'm saying Hoskins called

Or maybe he was maybe he was served because he's now living in the house. That's what I'm saying. He got the he got it and we don't know where Hoskins is. But does Hoskins know that his propertyy's going on court probably in two months and that he's going to have a Well, that's something you're going to have to take, right? It sounds like and that's kind of what he inferred was it was the contract deal. All right, I need a motion to adjurnn. I'll make a motion to I'll second it. All those in favor say I. All right.