Town Council - Regular Meeting

I don't would come forward, sir. He is the candidate for legal counsel to the ethics commission. And uh council members, if you would like to ask Mr. Kornbooks and any question, uh now is the opportune time to do so.

Or why don't you start by giving us your background? Good evening, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. I don't know. Is that microphone on? Dan, you gotta gotta eat it.

Yeah. Thank you. Um, happy new year to all of you. Uh, my background, I've been practicing law for approximately 20 years. Um, I represent several local governments to include the city of Tacoma Park, the city of Hyetszville. Um we do a tremendous amount of work through the local government insurance trust um litigating um all matters uh types of matters that local governments find themselves in throughout the state. Um I have uh represented and advised ethics commissions in various capacities in various uh local governments uh over the years. Um subject to that any questions you might have I'm happy to answer. How you doing, Skip?

I'm well, thank you. So, before I was uh uh even decided to run or anything, I went to the ethics commission. Our ethics commission. Okay. Currently, uh our ethics commission is pretty much just handles our public disclosures. Sure.

Um so, I have a few questions. Um one, what is our commission's authority today? I'd like to have that in writing and investigation compel and force and what must be referred out. What is the complaint process intake timelines and due process and outcomes? What tools and consequences are avail are available where lawful and due process protections and how will you ensure independence conflict screening retention records retention and public reporting standards? Dan, these questions need to be about uh this individual, not about our processes.

So, have you reviewed our ethics commission and and what's your stance on having an empowered ethics commission, not just sort of a checkbox?

So, um I have reviewed briefly um your the regulations as well as uh what are in your code provisions. I'm also familiar um with the state ethics requirements. Um my own experience with ethics commissions is um they have to stick faithfully to the provisions in the code and follow those. It is very tempting um for ethics commissions uh to get involved in political disputes within whatever local government within which they find themselves. I know nothing about your ethics commission. Um but that is not the purpose of an ethics commission. An ethics commission is to stick to the code provisions and follow them to a tea. So the historically with our ethics commission when it first went in place I believe Bruce's last second term as mayor he adopted it was pretty much in line with what our what the state had. Um I think through complaints and stuff the power of the ethics like the the authority of the ethics commission got reduced and I know that um in August when the mayor was a candidate we came to the ethics commission. We had a valid complaint and there was no there was no there was nothing they could do about the complaint. They understood they heard our complaint but there was nothing they can do. So um the previous administration had like kind of campaigned from the dis election was window was closed. We

thought that was something that the ethics commission should sort of overview and they didn't. So they only have authority to review our public disclosure.

Well sir I I don't know anything about what's transpired in the past. Um what I do know is that every ethics commission in the state is required to hear adhere to the state ethics commission state law and state ethics commission requirements. Every year um state e or every year local government uh ethics commissions are to certify to the state that their code provisions are what they are required to be and they have not changed or if they have changed they have to get approval from the state ethics commission. So as far as you know the history of how your ethics commission did whatever it is that it did the code or did not do the code has to be in line with what the state requires. And so um to that end, my role as I see it would be to advise the ethics commission on um what its obligations are under the state law um in terms of meeting the certification requirements and advise the ethics commission on what the um town's code means and how it applies. Beyond that and all this other stuff, it's irrelevant to me.

Mr. Cornbrooks. Yes, sir. Do you want to renounce the candidacy now? Um, so, uh, what, uh, thank you very much for, um, coming out and introducing yourself to us. Hopefully, we'll get a chance to meet you more personally. Sure.

Um, afterwards, um, is there a particular reason why you believe you would be good for this municipality or at this time to come to Chesapeake Beach to come on board with us? Was there anything that kind of drew you to Chesapeake Beach saying, "Hey, I want to, you know, come out here, work with you guys, see how this works out. I think I'll be good for what you guys do." Or do you have any connection like that here? I have no connection to Chesapeake Beach other than um I have worked with Miss Levan in the past in in various capacities whether

um assisting it's a small community the municipal attorney world the local government attorney world and and inevitably you know one of us findselves ourselves in a situation where we're representing the municipality or the local government. We need outside counsel who's familiar with how local governments work. um and and we pull someone in to advise a board commission or committee um and and Miss Lean and I have interacted in that way and also in my capacity um as outside counsel for the local government insurance to trust. I've worked with Miss Levan's municipalities um and and with her on litigation. So that was really the connection and how this came about. And um you know I honestly this is my first time here. I was driving I got here before the sun went down was driving around beautiful place. Wish Wish it was summertime. Um

the Christmas lights wouldn't be up if it were summer time. So, you got to see that. That's very true. So, um I one of the great parts uh about being a municipal attorney is you get to go to all different parts of the state you've never seen and I'm I'm excited to be here. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for your time. Yes, sir.

Who have we used in the past for ethics legal counsel that we know? Or has it just been Alyssa or whoever the lawyer was at the time? Fred Susman. Oh, it was Fred Susman. And uh Fred uh when we discussed renewing his contract, he's getting older and older like some of us sitting up here. And uh he he declined to continue. So that's why we had the vacancy. Okay. And so this is uh when we reached out to Alyssa, she recommended Mr. And if I could, I I know Mr. assessment as well. And I I hope that I'm able to do as good a job as he's done throughout his career in a variety of different capacities.

Yeah. Lori, do you have something? Um, I was just curious then. Are you taking over all of Fred's positions such as the board of appeals as well? I don't know anything about that. All I know about is ethics. For ethics, all I know is ethics. ethics as well. And do you have a a philosophy you can share about um the role of ethics in a municipality?

I think if I had a philosophy about the world of ethics, it would be very similar to what I just said, which is the ethics commission has a very defined role under state law and under um the local government ethics codes. All of which are for the most part the same because the state has taken such a strong stance with them. Um we're to adhere to that, follow it, stay within the narrow confines of that and you know do your job. Don't get sucked into the political fighting. That's my philosophy when it comes to an ethics. Very good philosophy. Thank you. Wish I could do that. Other questions, folks?

I I don't have a question. And I think I think I'm going to circle back to what I think Dan was trying to get at earlier was um there's a I think there is a desire to assess where we stand from a current ethics commission. I I couldn't tell you if we're I'm assuming we've we're meeting the legal standard. Um, however, there is a sentiment maybe that um there's gaps uh in how we can and and workarounds maybe that aren't appropriate uh and how we can rectify some of that and looking for the partnership of the legal council, the ethics commission to help us identify what maybe code changes would need to occur that keep us legal that would re rectify uh those loopholes or issues. So,

is that something you would you would assist with or So, uh my thought would be that while and and this would most likely uh necessitate advice from the town attorney, but my thought would be that my role would be to advise the ethics commission and if they perceive that there are issues with the code, then I could perhaps assist them in pushing those back to you all for legislative approval. If however, and again this is where the town attorney advice comes in. If you all perceive that there are issues with the town's ethics code, you would work with a town attorney to address those. Okay.

And I'm not trying to punt. I just that's how in my view how the government structure should work. Yeah. You're you're good. You're you're you're advancing the ethics commission. Um Okay. Thank you, sir. I I have to say I really like your your answers the what you're indicating the push back like it's not my I'm I'm this is my lane and that's where I'm at and I appreciate that. Thank you. I think you're look forward to uh having you on our ethics commission.

Well, I appreciate that. just if if if the relationship goes the way it's supposed to be going, you all would not be dealing with me. And and that's not again, no disrespect intended or anything like that, but that's that's the way it should work. And that's why you have outside ethics counsel, for better. Correct. Always. Thank you for the push back.

Appreciate that. and and um I'll point out that u uh the decision to bring uh Mr. Cornbrooks online is is uh actually my decision, but I'm I'm I think that I'm getting a good feeling from my council members. And so uh that having been said, um are you ready to receive the oath of office? I this will be a first for me being sworn in as opposed to being appointed. But if that's what needs to be done, that's what we'll do. Yeah, I'll come down there. Yes, sir. Talk with us now. Yeah, you got a couple of more steps to change your mind.

I do. Do you swear support the constitution in my faith? Then I'll be faithful to bear true allegiance to the state of Maryland thereof and I will the best of my judgment diligently and faithfully diligently faithfully without partiality or prejudice. Dr. G the office attorney for the other permission. Thanks to the office according to the constitution laws of the state. According to the constitution laws of the state.

Thank you sir. Thank you. Welcome. Welcome public works and he knows when the getting's good to get going. Then I'll take that as a clue. Thank you all. Have a good night. Thanks for coming down tonight. All right. Next item of business, the water and sewer rate discussion. That should take what? Five minutes.

Five minutes. Was there somebody in particular who put this up for discussion? Yeah, Eric. Okay. No, he wanted to he wanted to talk about the expenses. He he said we need to figure out what the expenses are before we can come up with the uh revenues basically.

Is there anything in particular? So, I mean, the biggest thing that looms that the council needs to align on is whether or not you want to have it as an enterprise fund or if you want to have it as a part of a general fund. That's the biggest thing because that is what's going to determine what the overall costs are. You guys paying attention over there? Yeah. So, yeah, the the enterprise fund basically means it's self- sustaining, correct?

Yeah. And something that the previous administration put out was that um it needs to be self- sustaining to be able to be eligible for grants and critical infrastructure grants. I talked with Dan and um we didn't he doesn't seem to think that's quite the case. So that might not have as big of a uh impact on our decision. U we also talked about the saying that should not have

it shouldn't have as big of an impact. So, it doesn't need to be self- sustaining to be eligible for critical infrastructure grants. Um, and we also talked about the salary percentages a little bit today. Um, so I'm on board with lowering the treasurer. I think it's at 30%. I'm on board with lowering that back to 10% in the utility fund. and the town administrator from uh I think it's at 10% back to 5%.

From what we what we asked for before was the information that was given to us about everything concerning the water sewer treatment plant. I don't should we even talk about a consensus on if we see it as an enterprise at all because if we all know that we don't feel that that's the right way to go then we can n that move forward um and then with the ideas about percentages and the different formulas that we do we have two right now that I know of that we've been able to look at we can start having the conversations from there about what the final decision would be but it looks like we need to make a decision about this enterprise fun possibility first and foremost so that we won't have two more trails to go down and keep us fumbling and not getting anything done.

Okay. Well, if you could weigh, excuse me a second, if you could weigh in on that a little bit, Dan, to talk about whether or not I mean I I don't want your opinion. I want you to just say what the difference is having it as enterprise fund or or not.

Yeah. So uh being an enterprise fund the operations of the uh utility fund would be funded from user fees. Um so all the costs associated with that operationally administratively should be incorporated into your cost and then you set your fees accordingly to that. Um if you are funding the utility fund with general fund revenues that actually becomes according to our charter a loan to the uh utility fund and needs to be repaid back at a certain point. So I think when Samia is saying if you are going to cover some of the cost, the better way to do that would be to just wrap the entire um utility fund into the general fund if that if you're using general fund revenues to help fund it versus having a loan from one to the other.

So I think those are the two differences. I was going to ask you to speak next. So if you would speak up. The only thing I would add to that is if you decide to have it as an enterprise fund and you take money from or you have to subsidize it with the general fund, it's considered a loan based on our code. So then the you would need to pay it back. So if you know already that the fund is not set up to be self- sustaining, then you would need to address that in other ways either through rates or by structuring it through the general fund to begin with. Other questions? Yeah. Well, go ahead. You had a question. Go ahead, Dan.

So, we know that the grants and funding and stuff like that, there's there's we've we've found the answer. It doesn't have to be. We're not losing any grants or anything by not being an enterprise fund. um if it's going to be an enterprise fund. Uh what uh Jonathan was sharing with me and this was the first time I've seen it was today is what the council published back in 2024 uh regarding when they changed the rates and I felt that from the wording and none of us have the background as to where they got that information from. I've never heard that you know you have to be self- sustaining to get grants. Uh, I'm not familiar with that. And to me, the context of the language they had in there, I think, was just a general comment they had and what they were, you know, to substantiate what they were putting forth.

And and I I I would I would also add, I know all of you know this, but I want to emphasize that Dan has served many municipalities. We're not his we're not the we're not the first place that he's landed, so he has experience across the state. So,

um I I think I would say like the well the answer to is the fact that we've had loans for long time and without being self- sustaining. Uh Lori, I know you'd say we have not been self- sustaining for a long time. My I guess my question now as we talk through this more more is like what's the benefit of other than the fact that we we would want to be self- sustaining if if we're um and maybe that's our it needs to be our stated goal is to get to self-sustaining if we desire but like if we're not there today what what's the point of then being an enterprise like in that perspective for this utility would like what is your perspective on that why why would we want to be

well if you want to put the cost of the utility ities on the users of it, then you would want it as an enterprise fund. We would still have to put the costs and we would still have rates though, even if we weren't a an enterprise fund. So, they would still like the users would still pay the rates. They would just pay back to the general fund. Well, if you have it all through the general fund, then you would have revenue from those billings, but you would also be funding it from general tax revenue as well in the general fund. Okay. So, so in theory, like the in the way, this may not make sense, but the way in my mind is is basically we'd be saying we would dissolve the utility fund and and roll it into the general fund and operate it from there.

Right? And I don't know what the legalities is of that because I know there's a operating agreement currently for the utility fund if I'm not mistaken or uh sewer only though, right? I think it's sewer only. It's the treatment plant has a operators agreement but it's a separate separate the utility fund is would not have that same maybe I don't know my okay I mean since the since the treatment plant is really utilized by four separate entities that is separate from this utility fund this is water and sewer

correct because the treatment plant has is funded by the town through an expense line item uh of like you know whatever that it's like a million plus dollars. There's an expense line item that funds uh I think it's actually two of them that funds fixed fees and variable costs. Yeah. So so in theory we would just move all that to the general fund. Okay. Okay. Can you say that again? So all of the operating costs of the utility fund will go to the general fund. Yeah. But but there if you look at the utility fund when we so they are two separate there's the treatment plan there's the utility fund

but there is an expense line item from the utility fund that pays as a revenue uh in the treatment plan for fixed and variables and that's how we pay our portion right so but if we look at it if we were say I said again if we were to dissolve the utility fund I know we got to double check the legalities but in theory there's no partnership there because we're just paying our portion to the treatment plant fund. Uh so if you did it from the general fund or the utility fund, I don't know if it makes a difference. You're still just moving money from one account to the next.

I think Lori was about to say something. Um just first of all all the municipalities that you work for or have worked for, what would you say the percentage um municipalities who is that funds their utility fund through the general as part of the general fund?

Um I don't none of the other municipalities I work for have a utility fund. They were all in Prince George's and Montgomery County and they are all, you know, their water comes from WSSC. So there is no utility funds in Prince George's and McGomery County. You know, that's more in the rural areas, uh, like on the Eastern Shore and, you know, Chesapeake Beach for Calvert County, but you're only one of two municipalities, so I don't know the answer to that question. None none of the ones I work for because their water is supplied from WSSC and they're build the residents are build directly from the WSSC

and the WSSC is a self- sustaining enterprise fund. Correct. It's it's a separate entity. Yeah. It's not part of any local government. It's a huge entity. Washington Suburban Sanitary Commission. Sure. But the the the answer is 0% of the m municipalities that you work for, right? Fund the utility fund from the general fund. Well, there are none, right? None% currently. So yes, and WSSC bills the users directly directly, right? So it's completely independent of the local government.

Is an enterprise fund. So 100% of the municipalities that Dan works for have a utility service is funded enterprise funding. Well WSSC I would say is an enterprise fund. The difference the only the difference by the government, right, is that they they're a separate entity. So they have their administrative costs all of that already encapsulated with And WSSC does a direct billing to the customers. Right. Right. So the the municipalities have nothing to do with that. Right. Correct. But the fund is enterprise. Yes. At WSOC.

Yes. Yeah. WSC is more of a um it's an entity. I understand what they're not. It's it's completely different than us. What is the funding the way the utility services are funded is enterprise users pay for the services and self sustaining through the users. That's correct. Yeah. It's just that the municipal governments have nothing to do with it.

I think WSSC probably gets some federal funding and stuff like that. So maybe not all the way enterprise if we're going to like compare, but it's not apples and apples any type of comparison. I've worked at WSSC. It is there's zero just of toilet flushes is as close that's about as close to reference as you could say. It is not the same. I understand. So, so I I feel like everybody's aligned here on on going the route of not an enterprise. I didn't say that.

I am definitely not of that mind. So uh for anybody who is advocating consuming the utility fund with our general fund, I would like to know what the benefit is of that. How much money from the general fund uh do you think is appropriate to um divert from general fund needs? Um, who do you how do you justify um the projects and the services that will be sacrificed by giving utility fund breaks to various classes of users and um

where you're coming from with that. Well, if if something is self- sustaining, right, and and the utility fund, I I've stated my philosophy to everybody multiple times. Utility infrastructure is critical. Utility infrastructure is the most expensive infrastructure that we have. And um if it grows, if it falls in disrepairs, it it could be the case that the general fund either cannot fix the problem if we if we mismanage it enough and we under support it enough, the eventuality could be that the general fund can't fix it. And and that is a true risk.

And this question is for people who are for enterprise or against enterprise. People who are against enterprise is first of all is anybody against

we're not we're not taking any votes here. So, one thing that I want to kind of acknowledge and hear you is that out on like Bayside Road and stuff like that. Um, I know when I talked to people there was a and there was so much going on uh about the water our water bill and stuff like that, water and sewer bill last year. Um, and I talked to Dan about this and so making sure that no property taxes would like what that cap would be if we have an offsetting amount. Like I 100% agree that there's what it would be the offsetting cap because at no point should people feel like their property taxes are going in to support a service that they don't even get. So if they don't have water or sewer, they're feeling like why is my taxes going there? So I 100% got you on that. But we also have like when we run kind of a surplus and stuff like that. I think that's where our unique situation where we have a good situation where we can have favorable um bills for our utility water and sewer. And that's where it just kind of like it it sort of helps everybody out and we have a little offsetting amount to our water and sewer build. That's my understanding of what we're doing here. But that's just my thoughts.

That is not enterprise. And additionally, um, we have a surplus because we have sidewalks that take 12 years and we have other projects that that aren't done. And then all the money that we budget for the things that people want and say they need goes back into the general fund. And what I've seen over the last seven years, millions of dollars gets then passed to the utility fund which is under supported 3.5 this year. Um lots of money.

I hear what you're saying like we we we don't want to drain the general fund. I don't think any of us want to. We have the water park to build. We have the sidewalk to build. We have other projects we want to do. train. So we don't want to take a million dollars out of the general fund every year for the utility fund. This year under our administration, we have transferred $500 plus,000 from the general fund to the utility fund to support it. That was for people like people bills and and it was a conscious decision because the rate hike was drastic and it was also distributed. That's why we're here right now because we we need to figure out

Well, can I uh just two things for me. Uh one thing is with the idea of enterprise, how's how does that affect our stakeholders and and you know just just for clarity and then what would Josh think like how do how does this really work out? Are we reinventing the wheel? you know, is it is the the cost and the time and the effectiveness going to be worth it on the outcome. It's like different variables of this because this is a brand new conversation we've been having after we've been talking about so many things for over a year.

I I I would say that for Josh, I don't think there's any change for him. It would just be wherever the expense is that funds this treatment plant, wherever we I mean that that's got to go. We got to pay our fair share. It always comes back to the utility fund, which is the water. Uh but I Okay, I'm still in favor of the enterprise fund. What what we were talking about earlier was me just trying to understand how that would look uh talking that out. But at the end of the day, we were back we were talking the same thing we were talking a year ago

and the same question still exists that answered it. The only reason our fund it would be considered not self- sustaining is the amount of personnel costs that are sitting in the fund because that is what changed a year two years ago. That is the only thing. So at the end of the day, the council and this administration has to make a determination of what that dollar figure is. And then if that's the case, then that's what drives the rates for our residents. That's it. So we've for literally 12 months now we've been talking I I think if we went back through all the recordings I have said for probably 10 out of those 12 months that unless we until we make the decision on the people costs there like right now we are not self- sustaining because the people cost they added a million dollars in people costs like that overnight and it skyrocketed everybody's stuff and because they did that you had to increase the fixed fees dramatically you had to increase the the variable rates dramatically. Uh and it wasn't a conversation about infrastructure versus variable rates. It was just a we added a million dollars in people costs and it wasn't well communic because budgeting cycle comes up here in March. The question still remains that we collectively and that's what I when I did my research and my math I came up with like $250,000. It was 30 I think 33%

I'm looking at it now the original amount. Yeah. And and that again ties back to the fact that there was zero in there a few years ago and a million dollars in there two years ago. Now it's trickled down a little bit. I think we're at 600 and some odd thousand in salaries, but then when you add in uh benefits, you know, that trickles up. What is what did you say? I think Dan, you told me benefits is 30 35% or something like that. About 50%. So the the difference I have between fiscal year 26 and fiscal year 24 is a salary and benefits of 416,000. That's what I see. Absolutely.

There's a difference. So they it wasn't a million, it's 416,000. It was 24 was. And so I'll just remind you that the people cost are the operating cost. Yeah. And that's what I'm getting at with these percentages,

but I'm not I'm not arguing that there's a a people cost. I I agree with you that there is a cost to maintain and run the system where I have and and Jay knows I've literally I've looked him dead in the eyes and said, I don't understand how much the people cost is. and and then we've collectively set up here. I also don't agree that I think his team should be spending hours upon hours checking in all day saying I spent 12 minutes doing this and I spent an hour on this that we're going to spend so much cost just time studying that we're going to get in. I don't know the answer. So the answer was that I came up with is I feel that this is a reasonable uh expense based off of the amount of time talking with the staff that they spend and the amount of time that Jay's team uh does this. And then when when Jay or the staff says that we are we have hit a capacity wall and we need more personnel or we need more staff then they bring that in through the budget process and we we onboard and hire another person and that is something we would budget to. But I don't want I'm not trying to conform to the previous administration's numbers because they haven't explained anything. So that so that's where I I think it's a like the 250 was a hey it meets like we're we're putting money in there right but then we continue to assess where we go and if we need to add because Jay comes in and says hey man you guys gave me this much money but you screwed me over this year and I need some more people then then we adjust and we and we work on it the following year. And you mentioned to come down from the four to 250 when

you I I messaged Dan and me and him talked and I said, "Dan, what's the no joke number that we need to where we're not bleeding that I used your word, we're not bleeding the enterp we're not taking and I I think that was the number um that you kind of hit back at me and then and then we just collectively agreed like yeah it's you know for last budget cycle. Or are you talking about preparation for the next budget cycle? Uh preparation for the next budget cycle. Yeah, because there the timing wise it would I don't by the time we did anything this year, we would be right at the the next budget cycle anyways because it's one one July is when it would all take effect,

right? We're not messing with what we did last cycle. I I don't I'm in full support of dump. Um, so let's separate the two things. Right now we have two people that agree that we should at least strive towards an enterprise fund. Is anybody else in agreement? One thing that I think she's just looking for consensus for she's not getting it because we're not doing that right now. One thing that I would like maybe to ask Jay is that Anthony outspoken.

One thing I'd like to ask Jay is if um when you were with a utility fund operating on that was it was it easier to be proactive and do things that needed to be done when things were coming out of the general fund or was it was it easier on a utility fund? So, if you have a utility fund and your labor's inside of a utility fund, can you be proactive in the taking care of the system or is it in the general fund because you have you're not worried about when somebody and where they're doing it's like, hey, I you guys aren't busy this week. I want you all to take care of this and you can manage your men better. What's better for you? It's a lot to digest, but you know, I've been here 20 years now, and I'll tell you honestly, there is never a day where we're not running to something. It's not like we come in and say, "What are we going to do today?" Normally, the list is left over from yesterday. But in any industry, regardless, always better proactive, right? Your PMS upfront, change it before it's broke. Um you'll see in next week's report we have a another blowout in Richfield that's 24 foot by 24 foot six foot deep all that dirt gone hole in a road where if we were proactive it's 4ft x 4t hole and we do it in half a day. So always better proactive but in the same thing I understand if money was endless I'd go through the entire richfield station and change out every saddle because guess what everyone's gonna eventually blow. It's not a matter of if it's when. Right. So, I get all sides. You you can't, you know, if there was money was an option, I say we start tomorrow and let's change out every saddle in Richfield Station because they're going to blow. Um, and it's we've proven the last time I did a study, it's about an eighth of the cost when you're proactive

versus the blowout material. So, I get it. Um, we can maintain it. We're going. We're looking, we're doing everything strategically. And what we are replacing, trust me, we're doing it cost effectively to last. There's always the unknown. But, you know, I sit in a lot of classes. Eric was down today who works for Maryland Water, 30 years experience that we take our classes through. He had an analogy and it's very true. It's like painting the Bay Bridge. Once you get to one end of the utility system, you start over. We will never be it's done, guys. We're good. It's it's always going to increase and tomorrow is going to be more expensive than today. I'm just saying. Do you need more employees?

Would I take more employees? Yes. Do I need more employees? I would say no. Um, but there's going to be things where, you know, we can look at it. Right now, if you look at what I fund in our utility fund, there's there's things there's no money to paint the next tower. Every time we paint a tower, we we go back and say, "We need half million dollars because so and so tower needs painting, right? There's there wasn't a built-in reserve." So, you know, I'm just trying to be honest and level with it. So, there's things that But the town has always come through and done it. None of it's lacking. None of it's deteriorating or or fallen off par, right? Um the only other side of that is is the last administration saw some things, took some numbers, moved stuff around, and they said, "Okay, it needs to be this price."

We've we've built now many cycles at that price. I don't know the answer if it's even my job to ask. But did that meet where we're at? You know what I mean? Has anyone looked at from that? Just ask him. Before anybody else when you're done before I want to say something, and I don't know if I answered your question, Dan. I tried to.

Okay. So going back to the people cost, I think it's important to realize that when you're looking at the utility fund people cost, the majority of it has the majority of the number comes from public works. So we can Jay's provided information, it's in the the staff memo that outlines all of the things that public works like all the things that they do. So, I think six people having to devote a certain percentage of their time might look different than one person who does it full-time, but I don't know what that would look like with what you're doing. So when we talk about more staff potentially it could be two guys who do who respond to the utility fund issues full-time and that removes the percentage of the rest of the team that is currently allocated to the utility fund which could decrease the amount the total amount that's required. But if you're looking at it from the people cost the the pe the cost is what it is because that's what's required. the large portion of the uh percentage that increased came from public works staff being allocated under the utility fund. So we can if you all want to do it as an enterprise fund then we can start to look through in the next month different configurations staff-wise whether that's you know what if we have two full-time people at this rate versus where we are right now. Maybe that will bring the price down a little bit. But before we get there, being you all being clear about what the actual people cost is, I think there was a misunderstanding initially that it was primarily the town administrator and treasurer, but those percentages are pretty minimal when you look at where the majority of the increase came from. It came from public works. And when you

look at the sewer lift stations and the water storage facilities and the the fact that those need continuous maintenance, then you understand that that is a real cost. So I just want to put that into the ether of the discussion because we can look at different configurations of how we get this work done with Jay's input is going to be critical because he is there people that he's going to have to manage. Um but first you all need to be clear on how we want to move forward so we can do that.

Yeah. And and I think that when I was looking at the proposal that I I came up with I think like November uh the reason it it is such a significant difference is because I I will say when I look at the town administrator and public works uh and and then your assistant I I look at those as as leadership. Um, and yeah, you may spend 20 minutes going to solve this or you you need to give some advice to your your team to do this or you may get a nasty email that you got to respond to. Uh, many um, and that's going to happen, right? But the proportionality of of the work falls back to uh the the treasurer like probably Zach like who's doing a lot of this or Fran or or your employees because when we get into the salaries of leadership that's where the skew happens um whether it's uh 50% of yours or your assistant and even 10 20% um you know the the leadership team is is at a different uh percentage and and when we start pulling that that's why I think you see such such a significant jump because we can get to your exact point. You could have a handful of people working on the treatment plant. You can get to your almost two full-time working on the the excuse, not the treatment plant, the utility fund. Um, and and stay within a reasonable salary range. Um, I think when I did the math at one time it was like two full-time public works and I believe like Fran or Zach salaries like three people full-time can still survive in that thing. And then when you look at across the board, you know, that's that's a lot. Like Fran doesn't do and Zach isn't doing this every day year round. They they have a they have a influx when the bills come out and then it slows down a little bit and then you have catches when people come in and pay and complaints and fixes and stuff. But, you know, are they spending 2,80 hours a year doing utility

fund stuff? Probably not. So, I agree with some of what you're saying. I would say that maybe Smelia is leadership potentially not utility fund. To remove Jay from the utility fund is absolutely insane in my opinion. um he is key to the utility fund and hands on deck every time there's something that goes wrong. That would be to in my opinion very inappropriate to move 60% of his wage or 100% of its wage or

they actually went down. Um, I I would be I mean I would defer to Jay and ask him to be very realistic about it because again utility infrastructure 35% is what I'd say his utility fund work is 35%. Right now it's at 20.

Yeah, I think it's actually lower than that and there's there's uh and I appreciate that Lori. There's a lot. Believe me, it it's hard to describe. It's hard to capture. And I did try to provide. You know, if you just go through the highlights, we have 12 wet wells, 24 pumps, 13 generators, backup. There's a lot. No one sees all of it except me and the guys under me. Um, but I h I have and the mayor's been out there. This was another Christmas morning. That was another thing, Christmas. So, and believe me, I I have to be the supervisor. I am, but I'm going down manholes and wet wells, too. It's just the nature of the beast. And we are OSHA certified and and it's certain amount of people to do a confined space entry. It takes six people. We're only eight. And then you you have almost 30 hours a day period utility fund you have to do. You have to be physically at every tower. You have to do every chlorine test. You have to do two residuals out in the field. It's a lot. If nothing goes wrong, you have to report to the state, right? Um but I have and what we've worked with is trying to segregate. Hey, let's have a utility department under public works and I work with similar let's let's define these roles right um so you can get the separation and it's not just on paper to figure out the numbers it's more effective because when something happens we all react and then things are let off and then you can you have to be crossrained or we would need more people because you have an incident on the trail we go out there so it's have separation and we're working on that moving forward but I do agree with what Jamie was saying we can get the actual people in the manual labor salaries that are out there turning wrenches PM pulling bumps and maybe pull out more of the supervisory find that happy medium um and work with it like that still be sustainable there's always going to be even if we're 100% sustainable I think I'm always going to come here and say hey just want you to know in six to

eight years we're going to have to paint this water tower it's about X whether we start banking reserves or how we work that in and there's always going to be an anomaly, something that not budgeted and and comes up. That's just the nature of it. Okay. And and the next person to speak is going to be Sumeia. Okay.

So, where we are right now, it not a vote. It would just be a consensus so we can move to the next step, which is actually putting the numbers pen to paper. say this is what the operating cost is and then you guys can figure out what the rate structure is. If you are comfortable moving forward with understanding that the enterprise fund is the self-sustaining fund that it accounts for the people cost. If you're comfortable with that and we have consensus on that, then we have it gives the staff the marching orders to figure out how we can um shuffle around the configuration uh and maybe reduce some of the cost from there with that.

Okay. what it sounds like.

I'm not I think it's I think it's a I think the in theory I am on board with that. I think the challenge I still continue to fall back to is depending on where we land up with the personnel cost that would drive a significant spike and to commit to that we have to go that route without it like oh I don't know. So, so you're not budgeting if you don't do that though. I'm not saying that though. But, but we're not asking to budget. We're again I look at the salary numbers and I pulled them up. Uh, and you know, and I of course Jay I love Jay like Jay's a fantastic person. I don't I don't take any of it personally. I really don't. And I appreciate the debate. No, don't bo you won't hurt my feelings.

But again, like you're saying, you know, it's crazy to have it's or what was the word used? Insane. Insanity. Insane. Something along those lines should be institutionalized. uh for saying Jay should but the but the assistant superintendent is 75% on the utility fund. So at if you add the two together where at 95% of the time a leadership personnel is assigned to the utility fund working. So that's these are the discrepancies that I'm trying in my mind to navigate. So I'm again I I think the problem we keep running to is that we're trying to get this like perfect. we've we've nailed to the at least within double-digit number of hours how much cost we should have in the utility fund and I think it's I think it's a waste of our time. We've we've been spinning this circle for a long time. We just I'm okay with the enterprise. I think we just need to pick a reasonable amount of salary that doesn't destroy our residents income when it comes to these things. And then and then we continue to reassess. And then I wanted to call out Jade made a really great point earlier about we've never been able to do certain things in the in the past because we didn't have the reserves but when new gen came in and when we did the the calculations like the proposal that built in reserves that would have us start setting up to accomplish that moving forward and I think that was a gap that was missing in the past. So um I am for an enterp I guess my short yeah circle back around now. I am for an enterprise fund. However, um I am not for like a huge amount in there initially. I think we need to I think there's some due diligence that has to be done and and how we do that due diligence without wasting Jay's time. I don't I don't know the answer to that today.

I think we can I think we can figure the the next step out. I just want to make sure that we can Yeah, it was a long way for me to say that. So, yeah. I like hearing you talk. It's nice. That's why we attempted to do the rate study, but it didn't turn out to be too feasible and it seemed like it was getting more expensive than it was worth. So, we really are just kind of using our best judgment on these percentages. Um,

I would say it's not it's based off of real time and effort. It's not best judgment, but but I but I understand your point. Um and ultimately in order to move forward like Dan hasn't spoken yet but after Dan gives his perspective we'll be able to go to the next step which is to say now that we have we know definitively we're not looking at you know apples and oranges. Now, we can look at just apples and figure out what different options are um and then incorporate the um the rates as they've been presented and go from there and look at what the real cost is. But before we if we didn't have that alignment, it was difficult because we've got so many different variables moving around and that makes it difficult to make a decision.

Scientifically, you can't make a decision if you change all your variables at the same time. You never know what we can still we can still be self- sustainable and lower the salaries. So that's what we're trying to do. That's what my goal is. Like that's the only way that we're going to be able to stay self-sustaining and lower the rates a little bit.

So talking and that's going to be it for this topic. I think that if we are transparent, we have three years that we can leave this election cycle with it. Correct. Jay's highlight when he was talking about having under public works a utility section or something like that. We can have it maybe just captured in the budget so that we can see the numbers and we can look at it the next two years. We can if we need to make an adjustment, we can make a slight adjustment, but we're going to be kind of close. I believe it seems like we've done a lot of work to I've put a lot of time inside of this more than I was considering doing. I think Jamie had I think we all have put John I mean we all have put a lot of time in this. I think we're making maybe a little harder than it needs to be. Maybe we can just capture it on the budget, keep track of it. If it needs to get revisit, we get revisit. But right now we're half million dollar short because of our own doing half million under. Right.

We offset it with the general fund. But either way, maybe that's what we can do. So I'm in whatever that says. Are you gonna represent fund never possibly do that? All right, let's move on. Yes. Yes. Towards the enterprise fund, but not this difference.

If we're not if we don't have it dead dead on if we just capture it through a line item and we're saying, okay, we were close. I think that's what we're we're trying to say. We're not we're not needing to do budget amendments then to change the rates. I think predictable rates and given a forecast of our rates for our residents is the is a good governance type of approach, you know. Okay. And the last word goes to John with a question for Dan and then we're going on to the next topic. Dan, the um the salary percentages chart that you sent me earlier today has a public bricks um they have their own budget I guess. Is that how that works? Yes. Okay. their own budget within the general fund.

Within the general fund. Yeah. But currently each of those employees have some percentage of that going to the utility fund. Yeah, I see that. It a lot of them doubled like from 2024 to 2026. They went from 50% in public works to 100%. Or they went from 100% public works to 50% utility. Yeah, I mean roughly it looks like of the you got eight employees Jay

including you full full-time equivalents are going to the utility fund. So ever you break out those four people you know. So half of his labor force on average is going to the utility fund, half is going to the public work salary in the general fund. If we make changes with the salary, most of that would be going from the utility fund back to the public works line item in the right general, which means you're putting a burden on the general fund. But if that's where it should go, then that's where it go, right? Okay. Thanks. All right.

Yeah, I said please. Okay, you can have the last question. Thank you. That's the last question. question. Okay.

So, the the utility fund and the general fund are I mean I'm sorry, the utility fund and the wastewater treatment fund are separate funds and we have this very good um I guess case study or um this this assessment this study um for the wastewater treatment. It's not for the utility fund. And and then we have your memo. Um it's provided by Jay or you got it from Jay. Yeah. Okay. Includes conversations from Jay.

Gotcha. So yeah, we have a very good memo assessing our water services infrastructure. And so um it would be interesting for us to know to have like the equivalent of this based on our lines of pipe, our number of water towers or like everything that you outline here. um some example, some study, some any kind of bit of research that will confirm whether or not we are in the ballpark with our operating costs of what um is prudent because Jay's not going to tell us he needs more people. He's he's not going to. Um, and I it's it's very unfair and and it I just don't think it's appropriate to have critical services in the town with a demand on them that is bordering unmanageable.

Yeah. Um, it's not fair to people in their daily lives. it's not fair to citizens

who will then sacrifice inevitably. So, um, whatever kind of research can be done, I'm not saying that that Jason's all day on a spreadsheet, you know, clocking hours, but there are other municipalities with certain, you know, parameters much like you've outlined here. And um I don't know who you could get to just make phone calls and and put together the information that would tell us are we in the ballpark with what we are about to do or decide to do. It would be interesting to have that perspective when we make our decision. I agree. It would be interesting.

Yeah. Okay. All right. Next topic. Uh, SHA, State Highway Administration, safe routes to school. Sumeilia, I believe you're going to cover this. Yeah.

So, you all are aware that this project is happening or has been in the works for a number of years. Um, so the idea really is for me to bring you up to speed as to where we are with the funding of it. Um, Wayne couldn't be here. He had a family emergency. So I he's provided a a good write up. So I'll give you some background and then I'll go through the write up. If you have additional questions, he's on standby. We can call him. Okay. So when it comes to safe routes to school project, it is um basically like uh grant funds that are available through the state highway administration. um whenever you want to make an improvement to a roadway that is owned by the state highway administration. So similar to how within our town we have standards for how things need to be done, SHA has similar standards for how they expect for their roadways to be improved or um or altered. And so because um Route 261 is owned by state highway administration, any improvements or modifications made to the land that runs alongside that has to be done in lock step with them. Whether or not we funded it 100%, we would still have to work with SHA. So like I just want to get that out of the way. Um there are different ways that you can fund that type of work. So, you have to have their agreement and their alignment on the things that you do regardless of if you're going to fund it 100% or you're going to request for funds um to help municipalities improve these uh these areas, the safe routes to school. So, sidewalk is is one example of that safe route to school. They have funds that are available. And

so, um there are design funds and there are construction funds. um you have to have a 30% design before you can have a 100% design and you have to have a 100% design before you can get apply for the construction fund. So it's all a sequential process. In the past, the town applied for and received 30% funds to have a design and that was done. Previously, the process for uh applying and receiving the funds with SHA and and finding the contractor who was going to do the work was for you to do a RFP. SHA has to approve the RFP and then you put it out to bed. So the town did that for the 100% design so that we can move forward and receive the 100% design. Um when that was done in the past there was only one bidder and the amount that they were bidding was higher than SHA had allotted for the grant that was awarded to the town.

It was high 10% more than 10% higher than what SHA had awarded. And so SHA said that they would not give the funds to the uh the company who to the town to pay for the 100% design to the company who bid. So that happened all during the last administration. Um and Wayne was supporting that work. Once we this new administration came in, we looked at the pro the project. We talked to SHA. They originally told us, well, there you need to make changes to your RFP um so that you can potentially have more clear instructions for potential biders and you can get better prices. And so the first couple of months, that is what the town was doing, right? So most of the early part of last year, that's what we were doing. We were refining the RFP so that we could send it back to SHA and get their approval. their approval processes are long. They they're not quick turnarounds. So, for an example, when we asked, perfect example is today we found out that we might be able to ask for an increase of funds. Um the increase of fund decision would take two weeks to hear back from, right? So, that's just to know if we can get more funds. Um that's not like a lot of people need to review a very technical document. So, I just want to give that as a a general understanding of how long it takes to just get a response from them. Um, and it's a a larger organization. They have more people who need to have eyes on it. So, it's understandable, but it it is a it's the reality. So, we went through that process. We had our contact at SHA switch after we were about six months into that process. when

that person switched, the new person came in and they said, "You could revise your RFP and then it would still need to go internally to be approved or you can use our piggybacking process where you where the SHA's contract manager would um assign previously selected vendors that you could work with." And so typically piggyback processes take less time because you don't have to go through all the RFP approvals. And so at that time gave a report to the council that we had moved to the piggyback process because that was going to reduce the time to approval. So we have had the uh a contractor uh dis uh assigned and that is the Rossi group. I will talk generally and I'm not going to talk about numbers uh on in an open meeting since we are still actively trying to receive um we're actively in the bidding process. So negotiation process. So Rossi provided a number to the town via SHA for the 100% design that was significantly higher than the what we have been awarded in grant funds and significantly higher than what our town engineer thinks is appropriate. And with SHA, the reality is is if you are over 10%, they won't pay it. They will tell you that it's not it's not something that they will award. Um that is interesting because this is someone that they've identified um as a vendor. Um and this is the according to them the best fit for the project that we're doing. So, um,

where that leaves us right now is we have the option of asking for an increase, which we found out today, and in real time I said, can we have an increase? So, they're going to be looking into that. Hopefully, they'll have an answer for us in two weeks. Additionally, what we had um put together was Wayne had a number of people from his um his company put together like he didn't tell them what the numbers were. He just said for this type of work, what would this cost? And they put together estimates which I sent to you all earlier this morning. and where Wayne um where Wayne's team landed was significantly less than what we would be paying for uh the work with SHA this would be for specific elements of the project not the whole project right so it's Rossi themselves they're the number that they've provided is fine but their sub pre-approved subcontractors are where the number is most inflated from our on engineers assessment. Um, so we asked SHA today if we would be able to move forward with the town providing the work for the environmental surveys and the geotechnical surveys and what's the one that I'm forgetting Jay? Do you remember

the too? The general survey.

Geotechnical. So we asked SHA if we could do that and they said yes you can but we will not cover that that it's not something that we will cost share. So, if the town chose to move forward with um a hybrid approach where we had Rossi do a majority of the work that they're doing with the design and the town independently contracting with uh Wayne's company to do the remaining work. um we would have an 80 20% cost share with SHA for the Rossi work and then the town would need to cover 100% the work that was done outside of that Rossy bid. So I will read verbat on what Wayne has. Some of it may be um duplicative of what I've already shared, but uh Messi worked with the prior administration to prepare the 100% design RFP after gaining approval of the 30% design. The RFP was reviewed, edited, and approved by SHA prior to being released for bid by SHA. The SHA only received one bid. A minimum of three were required. that bid was more than 10% over the design cost estimate. Therefore, SHA cannot award the contract. After the no award decision by SHA, the prior administration, not feeling hopeful of gaining funding from SHA for the project and growing weary of the timeline, asked Messi to review an alternate route, which avoided the state uh SHA rideway altogether. So, this is also important that the town has looked into other ways to fund uh a uh sidewalk that does not interfere with SHA's um ride of way. Uh we prepared the concepts, but the

prior council decided to continue pursuing the SHA safe routes to school project. In parallel with all alternate design, SHA had another design consultant review the RFP to make suggestions of how to gain more than one bidder and review the design budget. Johnson, Miriam, and Thompson JMT reviewed the RFP and suggested some minor changes and estimated the design cost to be $530,000. The current design funding budget is based on this estimate. The elections then occurred and this administration quickly picked up the project back up with SHA to confirm next steps. The prior RFP was revised to address JMTs and additional SHA comments and was ready to be put back out to bid when SHA notified the town of a new expedited procurement process for design contracts that does not require three bids. SHA suggested we utilize the open-ended contract process, which is where we are today. The SHJ selected the design consultant Rossi group. They have two subcontractors on their team. This cannot be changed. The Rossi team provided a proposal which far exceeds the budget estimate which is about 154% and in review the subcontract subcontractor pricing pricing is the subcontractor pricing is driving the factor or is the driving factor. Due to the overage, the SHA cannot award the contract. To help resolve the overage with SHA and Rossy's permission, Messi solicited proposals for the same scope from our team of subcontractors. In our opinion, the subcontract subcontractor pricing is over 200% higher than we could contract it for. And if our subcontractors were used, the project would be within budget and actually about 10% under budget. Given the above, the town is left with two options. One,

go back to SHA and request a budget amendment to allow Rossi contract to be signed in full, including their subs, or contract the the subcontractive services independently and pay for them without the benefit of the SHA cost share as the SHA will not reimburse fees outside the SHA contract. Um, the cost to the town under option one uh is estimated to be $164,000 while the cost to the town under option two is estimated to be $252,000. Option one was the hybrid approach.

No, option one is to go back to SHA and request a budget amendment to allow the Rossi contract to be signed in full, including their subs. Oh, gotcha. That's if SHA approves, right, the increase, right? Option two is the hybrid approach. Yes. Which is more, but it's slightly more. It's the difference between 252 and 164.

There's line items that uh Messi is providing. Was that like the uh basically right at the number where SHA would approve it at? You know what I'm saying? like SHA said we'll give you this amount but the proposal was more than 10% over that. So does this does MESIC providing these services at the town's cost get us right under that um approved SHA number

potentially yes it would that significantly reduce it and if we can get the increase more than likely yes it's just understanding that if we go with if we go with a hybrid method we do not have any reimbursement when it comes to what the town spends we only would get reimbursement on what's remains cost shared which is under the Rossy under Rossy. Yeah. Because it's piggybacked. Yes.

I guess what I'm saying is um or what I'm asking is is there anything that we could take out of Messi's portion to keep us within the SHA approved number? Well, when you look at Messi's portion, it has it's independent of SHA's approved number because it's no longer if you assign it to Messi, it's no longer under the SHA contract. If we give it to Rossy, if we give one of Messi's line items to Rossy, would it put us over the Yes, that because originally everything that you see that was that's the line items

that was originally in the contract that was or the proposal that was submitted to us and it was astronomical um from from the town engineers perspective for the type of work. And so he said, I think these numbers are incorrect. I think these numbers are significantly inflated. So allow me to talk to some of my subs, not letting them know what the price is is the price is and just see what numbers they come up with. And so what you are looking at there is the numbers that they came up with. Okay. So this is the minimum amount of like work that Messi can do to still keep us under the the agreed upon amount from SHA. I

think I understand. Yes. Thank you. So the clock started for the two weeks for SHA to let us know if they would uh we talked to them today. So my I can follow up with them and say hey just to make sure there's no document we need to submit. We've asked can you have this increase? But they said that they have to talk to their GM in order to get um or their contract their general contract manager in order to get approval. And even if they got approval, there's no guarantee that it's going to be it's going to match the amount of the Rossi proposal as it is. Right.

So, when we're having this conversation, I appreciate, you know, all the feedback you've given me along the way. Um, but I'm gonna recall our first conversation with SHA conference call. It was about that RFP

and it was about how that RFP was submitted over and over with items in it that SHA specifically suggested should come out or should be changed. And um at that time it was my feeling that SHA was they even said it we're so grateful to be working with people who want to push this forward. Um, now here we are a year later. Um, and and I can just tell you my community will view these updates as another story. So, what I would say is two weeks pushes us beyond the meeting and then here we go again. We're waiting for a real update, a real actionable thing that we can do. Um, so I guess my question to you and the mayor, um, first, what can be done to take that two weeks and make it one week? Because I know at Census we're a very big agency and if we need to make something one week instead of two weeks, we can. So, um, h is that any conversation that can be had?

There's always conversations that can be had, right? Um, you know, I I said today if if this is going to result in something actionable, I'm extremely happy in ways that I'm glad you're extremely happy. But but it has to become actionable for me to be extremely h happy. And and I have agreed to, you know, kind of update people in the new year. And the new year is in February. Um, depending on your culture,

the Chinese, the lunar year is January. So, I mean, I I I understood and received.

Yeah. So, um, you know, I I'm happy and I hope this is moving forward. I hope that somebody can understand and feel my community's pain in story after story after story with no action and do something about it. It It's out of my hands. I've even been asked to not, you know, go through you for SHA and I have done that and you've been very communicative with me about what's going on with SHA. You know, when I hear two weeks and I know that two weeks pushes us beyond the meeting, that sends my red flag bell up. So, I hope we have something by the next meeting that we can action.

I I I'm I'm going to I don't know if that's a realistic expectation that can be placed on to the town administrator. So, I think like I think you can say that I hope that the SHA provides a realistic response in that time frame. I think it's fair to ask, can we push back and say, "Hey, can you expedite this request?" But the the the language you're using though is putting a lot of pressure on the staff like they're missing the mark. And I want to be really transparent that they can't force SHA to answer that message, but they can ask, they can't force. So I I think to your community, we could go you go back and say that the action actually did occur today. The action was she said can we get an increase in this so that we can take the next step. So there was an action that occurred today. I want to be really there was an action that occurred today. Is it the exact action that you would like? No.

But you can't hold the town like like this. Well well what I'm saying is is can we try because it is very important and my community has heard story after story after story. And it doesn't matter that the story is different. They will perceive it as a story because it's not an update. And I'm just being very transparent about that and and very transparent about what what everybody is experiencing with this 12 year long sidewalk project. I'm not saying is doing anything wrong. Um I'm asking for as much effort as you can provide. Absolutely. And I would

expedite that decision and bring us something that we can action so that the update is something that doesn't sound like another story to my community.

I just wanted to to say something about Councilman Shu. You're actually not correct. There were two actions actually because we could talk about the hybrid being a an option. So we do have two options here. Um, but we would have to defer to her community to figure if they would like to think about or would you like to think about the hybrid if you think it's going to take too long for SHA or do you want to take that off the table?

Uh, I would ask what the timeline is associated with both and then what is you know that is also a council decision. It's it's a certain amount of money that is different. It's also the efforts of a town engineer that has other priorities to deal with. My feeling is that if we can get SH on this in a whole then it is something off of everybody's plate that is money saving in of itself. Um so no and it's by the numbers would cost less. So having that answer from SHA would be very helpful.

So I appreciate Wayne giving us two options because then we're not dead in the water if SHA comes back with a negative. So I I certainly appreciate Wayne providing those options and I'm certainly not against Wayne doing work for us because he's our engineer and All right,

Dan, did you have something? So I think anytime you deal with multiple different agencies there's just there's a lot of time that takes it's just forever. So your community where it's been identified what the stalls were like previously like for the 10 12 years there was this item missing and that item missing and stuff like that. But I think a realistic probably timeline is like like it's going to at least be another year or 18 months

like it just there's a the things take a long time. So I just think maybe having a a realistic like just because we want to say first of the year doesn't mean that things are in our control especially when we're dealing with like so if I was like so like brought something up with the census and like that there's we're just a a small town and that small town with the state highway and every other thing that goes there. So I just think maybe we could ask what would be a realistic expectation versus our our demands of what we wanted to happen. What's a realistic expectations that we can present to people? Is that something we could find out

two weeks? I mean two two weeks is just a funding answer. I'm just saying for the picture for the project, is it a year, a two-year, a threeyear, the design portion of the project or the construction of the project, the completion? Yeah.

Well, it's in a very tricky area. So, your first step is to get the design right. It's diff it's very difficult to project how long it's going to take to build in the critical area. But the goal right now is to have the 100% designs complete uh like within 12 months at the most. The 100% designs complete. When we get to about 60% this is what from the town engineer what he said when we get to 60% design we can we are then eligible to apply for the construction funds and then that would help us once the the vendor is selected for that then they would be able to provide a better estimate of how long it would take for it to be constructed. So it's all very um methodical the way that that we have to go about it. There are steps. So I can't give you the project in itself is going to be done in x amount of years. But I can say that I personally have been working very diligently to make sure that we can get what we can so we can move forward. The design is not on Wayne. So if we So he also has an incentive to want this to be done sooner rather than later because we have the water park that's coming up, right? That where the real work will start to take shape. So I assure you in your communities that you represent um that we are working diligently um you know we I called you directly when when we were having a meeting so you could ask whatever pressing questions you had so that he you go straight to the horse's mouth not something that had to go through me. So we h and then right after we got off the phone I called SHA right. So and I then I gave you all an update. So it is happening diligently but there are factors that are outside of our

control. Um and we try to account for that but we can't always. Yeah. And and I've appreciated your communication. I I just I I know how it's going to be perceived and um if there can be an effort. I mean, this is so close. This is so close. If

we can get it through, it will be a big win. It'll be off everybody's plate. We won't have to talk about it anymore. And um somebody will be working on the design. And then there's the next step, as you say. and and we don't know how long that will take and when we'll get approved for funding and all that, but you cannot go to that step without the design. And so, let's just get the design done and put a 12-year issue to bed for people. I I I would ask like as as we do think about this um I'm a as a Maryland taxpayer I'm intrigued that we're have bit we have numbers from an engineer that are significantly lower of like this is what it should be and there seems to be a gap in their process. I in addition I'm surprised there's not like the town the state's running at a deficit right now so why we're not able to like have a workaround to use a different vendor and maybe that is back to the RFP process but if we can save state highway um 100% of the cost of the 200% you would almost think that they would be absolutely for that

so I don't know if maybe as part of the messaging back can we say if if we can save you a 100% of the 200% of excess. Why would you not allow us to go this route? Uh and they would still cover 8020. I don't just an ask because that's a lot of money. We just pay the difference of whatever it was over the 10%. That's probably not they won't award it. Yeah, they won't. They won't award it. And my only concern about going back to them and saying, "Okay, we don't want to go with Rossi. Let's go with a different group." is that it's going to be another couple of weeks to even and they might not even give us a better number,

right? Like the person that they the group they provided to us was supposed to be the best fit for the work that we're doing. Yeah. They gave us that budgetary number before the piggyback like the the number plus 10%. They gave us that number before the piggyback. Yes. They had no idea what what it was going to come in at. Correct. To my knowledge. How long ago was that? Like a year. How long ago was the number they gave us? The budgetary number. I mean that. So there was a number that was initially given when the RFP process happened and there was not enough money to cover that. They did do an increase and they awarded more

for the 30%. For the no for the 100%. So the number that we have now is higher than what the original group seems to be did. But we can't even go with the original group because of their the way that they do their process with SHA. We would have to it's just it's very interesting the way that they run their grant process. Process. Yeah. How much is the grant for? 400 30,000. Yeah. And that's to get to 100% design. Yes. And that's their 80%.

No, that's the total amount. I guess that's it. Yeah, that's their 80. Their 80. I think it was 432. Exactly. If I recall right, 432. Yep. If history, working with this administration, the prior administration, administration before that on this, and I'm just being fair and honest. If history is the best predictor of the future, we're at 30% in 12 years of design. So, anybody that says it's going to be built within the next two years, I'm just telling you, we'll be like, if we have the design in next two years, giving you my true honest opinion, if we have the design in the next two years, I would be amazed.

Well, and to to echo what you just said there, Jay, I I was flipping through my phone. I I know that uh when I served before as mayor, um Larry Hogan made a a tour here of the town and we uh I I convinced him and his staff to put me in his car to go to to drive down there to show them the route and we stood in front of the the sign, the Chesapeake Village sign and there was there Mary. I remember. Yeah. And Mahoney's holding up a Hogan for governor sign. Uh but uh at any rate um

there's it unfortunately it seems like this has taken forever. Um but I have a feeling when you're dealing with state highway and a complicated situation like this is that that's what it takes and we just need to keep pushing. We've got Lori on it now though. She got the tennis courts and stuff going do this as fast as you did the tennis courts. You need to get me on it. I'm on it. Your calendar. I'm on it. You make a call to SHA. Well, then you come on to my office and we'll do it. Let's do it. Just call Wendy. Put it on the calendar. Need to get that report for the credit. I think we're ready to move on. Yes.

Okay, it's time to move on. Stuart, it's your turn. Come on. I know Ste's uh he's been enjoying this for the last, don't you? permit for the environment. We had to go to the governor to get some assistance, push uh push them to get the permits through. So, it 18 months, two years. Oh, yeah. Easy.

Well, it took it took it took 22 years to build the trail. I mean, you know, that's how that's how long it took. and and and I I'll point out that Stuart, former Councilman Stewart, my good friend and colleague when I served before and he served before, he and I are the only two people that have ever been president of Maryland Municipal League from the town of Chesapeake Beach. So, uh, welcome and it's nice to see you. We ought to get together a little more often and in in a atmosphere where we can just chat. Retirement's good to be home,

right? Well, okay. So this one's this is a sub disabled uh fire emass and law enforcement ordinance that we talked about two two sessions ago and um being really honest I think the conversation derailed a little bit because we started talking about well why don't we just give property tax exemp breaks to every single person teachers and you know I you know I walked across the street last week and held a you know crossing sign I get you know but the idea was really there are specific exemptions and and credits that are given through the state and the county to recognize certain services. And the example because you know military uh I use the military exemption as an example. Um I'm not EMS police or or or uh firefighter. So I had asked Stu to come here and kind of just help under help us understand um that it's not just a simple blanket process. We're not creating um I think the words last time was uh what do we say like a specialized class of of citizens. We're not doing that. This is already designated. There is a a process. So maybe you can help us

and and please bear with me. I I may not be able to attend the council meeting, but I want an opportunity to come and and this present my case and ask you if you would consider this benefit and not consider, but actually approve this benefit. It's not something that's going to require a a great deal of an EF uh e effort in creating an ordinance. You could either uh modify an existing code that we have now or a very simple ordinance because the county already has an exemption for police, firefighters, and public safety workers providing a property tax credit. And that's what I want to talk about you about today. Uh again, and if you'll allow me, I'm going to list a little bit something I wrote and then I'll a little more freelance at the end. But again, I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak with you tonight. I'm here to respectfully request you consider an ordinance that would mirror or complement an existing county ordinance granting a property tax credit to disabled, totally disabled, uh, law enforcement officers and rescue workers. Uh, these men and women served in our community with dedication and courage, and many of them are permanently disabled in the line of duty while protecting our lives, our families, and our neighborhoods. their sacrifice did not end with their service. Uh we're ensuring that their continued well-being should remain a priority at every level of government, including here in Chesapeake Beach. This is not or these are not abstract beneficiaries. These are men and women who put on the uniform, answered the call to help, and were permanently injured in the line of duty while protecting our communities. These service this this service did not end by choice. It ended because their bodies could no longer withstand the cost of service. Specifically, I'm asking the town to adopt a provision whereby any disabled law enforcement officer or

rescue worker who has already been approved by the county under the county county's ordinance would be automatically approved for a parallel property tax credit here in town. Now, this approach makes sense for several reasons. First, it ensures consistency and fairness by allowing our town policy with established county standards. Second, it reduces unnecessary bureaucracy, avoiding duplicate eligibility reviews for individuals who have already met rigorous county requirements. And third, it sends a clear and powerful message that Chesapeake Beach stands firmly behind those who have given so much to their public service. This would be a modest but meaningful step. One that provides real relief, honors their sacrifice and res and reflects the values of this community. It is not about creating new entitlement. It's about recognizing service injury and the uh fulfillment of their duty. And I'm respect respectfully asking that you all would consider that and approve this. Now, a lot of some folks are have some misconception about what permanent disability is or how we define that. It's usually not about a um single medical diagnosis. This is usually set by either a county or state um statute or it's defined in your pension service as to whether or not you would qualify. Now, Calary County, as I mentioned, and some of the surrounding counties and other municipalities have these ordinances and do provide the property tax credit. All I'm asking for is that Cal County does that. So, all we will be doing is allowing citizens without our town to have that property tax credit already

credited by the county. So, again, little work on our part. The county when you apply through application, they review it. that's sent over to actually to the state's attorney's office and they do the background to to look at the documentation and so forth to asssure that you qualify for such a property tax credit. I think it would have very little impact on your budget, but it would mean a great deal to the disabled, totally disabled, and their families here in our city, our town. And I'm hoping that you would consider that. Now, again, the military um typically serve for a four-year term. Uh most state and counties have a dis disability tax credit. You're looking at firefighters, police officers who work every day uh for 20 to 25 years who risk your lives for us. And when they are killed in the line of duty, there there is monies that federal government, state government provides to the families. But when you're injured and totally disabled in the line of duty, this little bit of of benefit would be significant to these families. You know, I often hear um words like uh thank you for your service and thoughts and prayers and it means a great deal. You know, I hear it all the time even retired. But this is something would really make a difference in the lives for me.

Yes, sir. but this is something that will really make a difference in their lives and it's very little to ask. Now, I've served on the town council for 19 years. Um, I've always looked at the quality of life, public safety, these types of things has all been paramount to me. And this is something that will make a difference for the members that live in the town of Ches Beach or members of our community that we can look out for and provide a very small benefit at very little cost and very little effort.

Yeah, thanks Stuart. Um and and you know, originally in the packets you have the ordinance that Alyssa was working on. I actually thought we might have uh had us solve this because um in uh our town code section 257-3 talks exemptions and it says that we will mirror the county. So that's how military um if you're 100% permanent total, you do get the tax credit or the the the property tax exemption and there's no process with the town. Um, however, talking with Alyssa, um, and and even Stuart, I didn't realize that the exemption and credit are two different, um, things in the eye of our code. So, um I want to go back to Alyssa and maybe uh so I would say just ignore maybe the ordinance that you see in front of you right now because I think that there's a different way that instead of trying to add all this language in there that basically mimics that the the language in the code right now for um the exemptions is one sentence and it just says that we will mirror uh the county and the state and I think that we can literally just do one sentence. I do want to talk to make sure that there's not a ton of tax credits that we're all of a sudden maybe mirroring. So maybe maybe the first step would be we would mirror specifically um you know firefighter EMS and police officer and then we we can address that. So I just wanted to put it out there. I wanted everybody to understand that this wasn't just a uh a specialized class. I think Laura you probably get this because because you're military. No no I know but you understand that this the disabled veteran stuff. I know Bruce you do and and and Dan as well uh from his Navy time. So, um I think it's a very simple thing to do and I think we can mirror it. Um but I just wanted to kind of tell you that's where we're at, but ignore the current ordinance because I I thought I had it. I thought we were actually going to just pull this completely off. Uh and then Alyssa came in, swooped in last minute, and I just wanted to give Stu an opportunity to help us better understand it from the law enforcement side of the house. So,

and this is specifically law enforcement and uh what they call it uh rescue workers. So, firefighters, police officers, and so forth. And and listen, you know, again, you know, whether these firefighters are running into burning homes or simple traffic stops on the highway. Many have been struck by cars. Um you know, again, I don't think it would be a significant impact in town, but we do have, you know, firefighters here and police officers who have been who had total disability. And I think we make a real a real effort to show our appreciation for their service by the small token. So I hope you all would consider that and vote to do that and we get that done relatively soon. Thanks. Any other questions?

Yeah. Yeah. Um so what you were saying like that's summarization is what like I think is what we should do the the mirroring of the county. What we have in front of us is like kind of do but maybe you do know this because maybe the county doesn't. So the Calvert County Volunteer Fire Department, yes. Is that policy and the procedure that Calvert County has, do they give that to them because they don't have pensions and stuff like that? So if someone gets hurt, like we have a 100% volunteer fire department in our county and that's something actually they do get pensions, volunteer firemen, uh, volunteers,

but if they were to get hurt, Yeah. do do they get that tax credit? I don't know even if workers compensation that I don't know but it does says police and rescue workers. So my assumption would be whether volunteer or pay and again it's an assumption. I think you would be covered if you were just totally able as a result of an onduty injury. Okay. Yeah. I'd really want to make sure that I mean we're hits in that area, it's going to be a benefit that will help this family tremendously. Yeah. And I think uh how there's already procedure that's

checking everything that that's sort of what it would be nice to like the good neighbor approach if Calver County isn't doing it. We're just an assistant with them and it's

well and and that fight because this this attempt here is actually Calvert County's code and we were basically trying to transpose their entire code into our but but at the end of the day I think going back to that single sentence that that matches the exemptions just for tax credits. It's it's literally and I'll I'll send it out to everybody but it it it literally just says and I sent this to to St. says, "All property now or hereafter exempted from state and county taxes shall remain shall be and remain exempt from municipal taxes by the town council of Chesapeake Beach." So, I wanted to work with Alyssa to say, how do we tweak that same exact sentence to reflect tax credits? And then we would just create a subsection in here uh to to reflect credits. And then and then again, if we need to make sure it's specific to this this thing first, so we don't um I don't I don't know how I don't know how many credits exist out there. I would worry about like we just open up Pandora's box, but I know specifically for this scenario, I'm 100% a supporter.

I'm not trying to broaden it. I'm just again following the county has a uh the the statue in place. Uh I know it requires an application. You provide your medical records and supporting documentation. It goes to the treasur's office and from the treasur's office, they send it over to the state's attorney's office who verifies it, gives them the approval, and then it goes back to the treasur office to get the tax exemption. So it's again it's a statute in place in in the county. Um it's just a matter if the county would approve it all we need to do is that almost what we have in our current code it would automatically be be uh granted in town. So it's simple process. Yeah. And it would be for example the county is already giving them the

the twothirds or whatever the tax. It's just the the differential. Yeah. It's just that little small part. That's why I think the number was it's actually not not a large number. That's what I think. Yeah. I think that's what sparked the conversation was like Yeah. This is the same thing as the disabled law enforcement officer's property tax credit, right? Yeah. There's four properties in the town that would be uh eligible and the cost would be $5,522. So that's what we're talking about. Makes it makes sense to me. Well, thank you, Mr. Combo. Okay. Thanks, D. Thank you for your consideration. Stranger. Thanks for your time.

Happy New Year. Don't be a stranger. All right. Next item. Uh Laura, slow bike ordinance.

Slow bike ordinance. Um so so to recap um this is an item that was brought to me by one of my committee members and um the goal of um the conversation we had after she brought the issue to us of the welcome community advisor group was to eliminate a prohibition on bicycles on Boardwalk Park which is the Boardwalk by Brownies. speech. Um, and my um, committee discussed a variety of different things and we came to the consensus that we wanted to keep this ordinance limited in scope. And we wanted to um emphasize having the policy of allowing bicycles and not necessarily the enforcement aspect because we felt like the enforcement aspect was was you know going to be very hard to enforce in um other than extreme circumstances. So we started we we brought that to council. Um, I think Jay had some comments about um having pneumatic wheels be a requirement to protect the boardwalk and so we incorporated those. Um, and then Alyssa was kind enough to go back and forth with me last night on this ordinance, which has been revi revised. Um, you know, and and recommended by her to me, and she's not here to second that, but, um, the revised ordinance that you received from Sharon today is is what we came up with that accomplishes that mission. limited in scope, emphasis on

the policy of allowing bicycles, protecting the boardwalk, and that's all we wanted to do with this ordinance. And I hope the council will support us in doing this easy thing. And if there's other things that you want to do with transportation apparatuses, um I have heard wind of people wanting to adjust it in different ways. I would ask that we get this through and then we discuss that later because there's a lot more discussions to be had about other types of conveyances

like ebikes. But I think this captures some of the hazards of ebikes because it it has a speed greater than 8 miles per hour which ebikes are capable of. So this ordinance kind of already takes care of of that hazard. So, I think I think this is good. It presets. So, right now, those things aren't are in a different section of the code, right, that I'm not looking to address right now. I think this is good. But, um, um, it's mostly simple and it accomplishes what you're trying to do. So, thanks. I I'm on I'm in favor of this. Thank you. But what's the uh

You have the wrong ordinance in front of you. So, the new ordinance does not have and shall otherwise be accessible and available for the purpose of pedestrian and bicycle transportation at times that do not fall within the normal operating hours. Is that something that's been taken off or is that still on there? We can go. The only thing that's been changed is she removed the word conveyance conveyances because um that includes everything. So, we didn't want to implicitly say any conveyance can be allowed on the boardwalk because um but that part is underlined. So, is that new or no?

So, here's the ordinance you're you're looking. Show me the first page at the bottom. It's underlined here. Is this new or not? This is new. What is being proposed now? And yes, that is included. That's added. If it's underlined, it's added. So, what does that mean then when you're talking about other times except for the times between 6:00 a.m. and 9:00 p.m.? I need I want you can take your bicycle on the boardwalk and ride it on the boardwalk outside of park hours because the park hours are defined in a different section of the code. Okay. Park hours might be changed and that's for pedestrians to walk and for people to ride bikes outside of park hours, right?

Okay. Just want to make clarity of that. And do you do you you have an idea of what those times are going to be or is that something you just make up later? I didn't set or change those times. Those times are unchanged in our code. Okay. So from 6:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. is for the public. Between 6 between 9 and 6 between 900 p.m. and 6 a.m. If anybody wants to ride their bike or walk, they're free to do so. You just can't loiter. Correct. You just can't stop. You can't I mean what hang out sit around and drink beer and fish and all I believe we have noise ordinances and the like that would I mean it's disturbance

added for a reason and if we're saying that we're doing this because we want to let people ride bikes we're letting people ride bikes that's not the issue but that's something else that's added so I just don't want to skip over that because it is something that was added so that means that riding bikes and being on the boardwalk has nothing to to after the 9:00 p.m. cut off time for people to be there, you can still be out there any time of the night to walk the boardwalk or ride your bike. Right. Correct. Okay. Just want to make sure that was clear. One thing that uh I think we talked about whatever the the hours were about being able to watch the fireworks

from the boardwalk. One thing that I think we might want to address or maybe not is like uh add a special event high pedestrian volume during town events like where the 5K is 4th of July. So it's like we retain where we can prohibit with notice or something like that. I just last thing you want to do is I think there was a some public comment something to address that. Um but food for thought. Um also I don't see anything for exemptions of wheelchairs and mobility screw scooters or anything like that. I mean that's I don't know if that needs to be added or not but

I think I think as is everything is covered. You know I think everything is covered for what can be on there and if it's not under the exemption like wheelchairs and stuff like that you're good. Not a similar device, I don't think.

Yeah. So, I think it's it's good as written. If you if this is about making sure we have bikes on there, have nomatic wheels on there that don't damage, everything is in place. The only thing that's really different is opening it up for 24 hours for people to be able to be on there. And we got to make sure that that's a consensus that we want to go with because you don't know how that's going to be policed or not or what other problems may occur. But think it's all good. Yeah. Think about that. No, it's from 6:00 to 9, but you're gonna have access for the rest of that time. You can ride there or you can walk there anytime. So, you got to make sure you understand that part first. Does anybody have a problem? I I personally did not know about hours for the boardwalk until I tried to address bicycles and I've been on that boardwalk.

I haven't heard of any hours walking police reports or anything over there. Breaking that law. Yeah. I don't I don't know. breaking laws. Breaking laws. I mean, it was bought up by somebody breaking the law. They was riding a bike on there and they were called out for doing it. So, people don't know what the rules are. And that's how we got to how we got here. Fireworks don't start till 9:30. Now, like they don't fireworks don't start till 9:30, 9:20 or something like that. like

Well, I was going to say to your point though, I think that your goal was to address the the bikes and then we would circle back and maybe address any hour changes that we want to do in a future amendment because you said there's a whole another section that we got to take a look at as well. Correct. Yes. We are trying to avoid scope creep because our code could use a revamp probably on every page and we can't do that. So

I would appreciate if we can address allowing the bicycles first and then if we wanted to have a larger conversation about other areas of the code um that might take more time and more consideration that we do that separately. Um Dan, for your firework question, um it it does point to signs. It says, "Obey the signs that are posted at the park." So Melissa's not here to ask, but I imagine if we put a sign up that says park open for firework display, then that might accommodate what you're looking to do. or you know I I think that people are responsible generally in this community and I don't think we need to go looking for enforcement things that haven't presented themselves and nobody's complained about people being on the boardwalk for fireworks my thought that's what the loitering thing is because if you're watching fireworks that's not loitering so that

but people have complained about bikes I mean, come on. Stop blowing smoke. At the end of the day, it's real simple. If we're going to let bikes on there, let bikes on there. If we're going to open it up so it can be open at all times, let's just go ahead and do that because that's what's already in here. We just need to make sure that we all understand that that's what's actually in here. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm fine with this. The only question that I had is I we have cameras all over the boardwalk. Mhm. Right. We have them strategically placed, but I mean there are areas that are not uh under video surveillance just by the distance. There's 3.2 mi of boardwalk.

Um but I would I would advise because I've met with officers and pri administrations. They request a golf cart. We've got them bicycles before because what happens is if you allow people out there at dark, they have to respond if there's a call. And if they're not allowed out there at dark and someone sees them, then they get a call and then they're not allowed out there at dark, right? So then they have to respond. So I would definitely consult with them on the on the laws of after dark before if they were going to make changes because I know we've I mean we've just bought a golf cart specifically for them to be able to respond to calls. So yeah,

we're not changing the the railway trail does not have hours, right? People can go on the railway trail at all. I thought it was dawn to dust, but I could be wrong. I thought it said dawn to dust on the sign. Um, but I could be wrong. Maybe sign, but it's not in our ordinance. Andre does point to a sign. So, if there were to be a problem,

well, it this this explicitly allows people to transport themselves. To me, I would say I would prefer to readress this if it becomes a problem rather than outlaw joggers at 5:30 in the morning rather than outlaw um you know a couple holding hands walking the boardwalk looking at the moon. That's all they want to do.

So I'm I'm with you. I want to go back to that because I didn't get it. So I'm with you on this and we can always circle back. Uh my only question was the the cyclist is presumed uh to have been the one like like operating in an imprudent manner. Is that like the standard? They would just assume the like why are we assigning fault to to somebody because you could easily have um somebody acting a fool that's walking. I'm going jump in front of your bike brother. Well, that's what I was thinking. I would jump. You could have somebody walk in front of a bike and then they say this person did it and then I'm going to take legal actions against them. I don't know if that was a conversation. I I know that sounds ridiculous, but people try to catch lawsuits

suggestive I came up with and I think that that's having that in there all stemmed out of a concern of liability and I think at the time during that conversation we decided that it's just like pedestrians have the right away. The car is, you know, the car is responsible for avoiding pedestrians. Okay. Fair point. You know, it's it's the same concept. Okay. Yep. I'm good then. Ready to be introduced at the time. Are you ready to introduce?

I can't see why. Thank you, council.

All right. Last item on the agenda was something that uh surfaced that I got an email from Bill George at uh uh Maryland Municipal League uh a while back. It was uh about a week or so ago. Um and it said u uh this past May, Western Maryland experienced historic and devastating flooding that changed lives and communities in an instant. Entire neighborhoods were overwhelmed. Families were displaced and vital community infrastructure was damaged beyond repair. As the waters receded, one grim reality still exists today. More than six months later, more than 100 western Maryland residents are living without heat. Uh facing unsafe and undignified conditions as they work to rebuild their lives. Um despite the clear community need, FEMA declined assistance in appeals for support. Without emergency support, too many of our neighbors are now left with no path to restore basic heat and hot water before cold weather returns. It's already returned. Um to meet this urgent need, um the is hard to read, I'm sorry. Our newly formed uh the Maryland Local Government Impact Hub, a 501c3 companion to the Maryland Municipal League, is launching our first campaign, Turn on the Heat campaign. This is a focused communitydriven effort to bring safe, reliable heat back to households affected by the May flooding. As part of our mission to strengthen Maryland's municipalities through research, training, and direct community support, we believe that helping residents restore essent um essential home utilities is one of the most meaningful ways we can lead. But we cannot do this alone. We are asking for your partnership, whether through a financial contribution, a corporate

match, or by helping spread the word in your community. Every dollar raised will go directly toward purchasing, repairing, or installing heating systems for the families who need them the most. Our goal is simple, but critical to ensure that no impacted flooding victim enters this winter season without the basic warmth and security every household deserves. Your support will make an immediate and life-changing difference. Together, we can demonstrate what strong, resilient, and deeply connected communities look like to stand together with neighbors, regardless of politics, borders, and simply lead. Thank you for uh believing in the power of local action and help for helping us restore dignity, comfort, and safety to our Maryland neighbors. And this is signed by Terresa Coons, who is the CEO of Maryland Municipal League. So, I bring this to your attention to see if the the council has any interest in providing some support for these people in need in Western Maryland.

Definitely interest. I'm very upset that they waited so late because if this is an issue, people are already cold. I know that. Um, this just got to me about a week ago, not even a week ago, I don't think. So, the question is, um, how if we want to send money, how do we all lot that? How do we get We could just work that right through MML. I'm sure because it's under the 25,000 uh limit, right? So, yeah, but I'm not going to do anything without just your input. Yeah. Um I mean, do they give it give you a dollar amount? Like, is it's just

No, they just they're in desperate need. So, I have no idea. I could call Teresa and see if I could get an idea you'd like for me to do. I know HVAC is expensive, but uh I'm hoping somebody got him some space heaters or something in the meantime and blankets. Um I I can call her, but they said 100% of all it's there's no overhead fees or anything. It's 100% goes back towards the residents. That's what she said. Okay. If I I seem to recall reading that. Yes. I'm I'm very much open to supporting as well. I don't do the same for us. But maybe we could also put a letter to the state that says like um hey let's step up

like you know I'm all about community and stuff too but I think that like the state's leaving the federal government's backed out and and washed our hands and the state needs to also step up. I think we could or put a letter in that could be our voice piece

for us. I think maybe if there was a group of municipal governments that said we'd be willing to do this, send it to the state and see if the state would then match that contribution, then we could use what the Maryland Municipal League is as a group and by saying if we have 10 or 15 different municipal governments that want to put 10, 20, 25,000 and then the state matches is that it kind of says, "Hey, we're stepping up, you should do it, too." I think that would be maybe a universal message that when there's an area in in the state that's needing assistance, we all kind of stand uniform together. I'm a little concerned about that because the state's crying poor

and so I I wouldn't want I mean if if we put it that way we would want to put it in a way that if they declined to match that we would still go ahead and make a contribution. So I was actually going to I was going to say I like the idea and it would be great if Chesp Beach was leading the way with MML to to push forward a letter to the state and try to get other municipalities. I would not want to hold the funding against the because then we're they need it now, right? like whether the state acts or not, they need it now. They needed they needed months ago. So I think we could do both. But I do I do like the idea of I do like that multiple or asking multiple municipalities or or just everybody else to challenge the state to step up as well. Like they got to they need to own their part.

Well, I think the power would be the echo. So if you have a group and that's what the organization is and supporting each other. So it's like uh like one person out there but a group of that's sort of what I think like like it's the the power is in numbers. Absolutely. So like that's if we can somehow figure out what the finesse is to to to say hey let's join in this together. That's what that'd be sorted. And I'll I can easily reach out to Bill George or Terresa Coons from MML and find out how this if there's any if there's been much respond. I could,

but I wouldn't want us to be dependent on that. If I could add a little more context to the actual flooding at the legit annual meeting back in November, there was a representative the uh head of the Maryland Emergency Management Agency spoke as one of the keynote speakers there and he spoke specifically on this incident and they had a whole round table of who responded to it and the remediation of the entire event and all the different agencies that were involved. So the state was directly involved with this through the Maryland Emergency Management Agency is one of the key people organizing the whole response to the incident. Uh so the state is well aware of it and I would imagine they've already committed a lot of resources to it through that process and there are a lot of other agencies that responded to um the whole incident. So I think what they're looking for now is these last few people. I mean the whole town was impacted by it. If you look at the videos of it which came with that um I think the letter from uh Theresa Coons, it was pretty devastating incident and to hear how the whole impact was and the remediation companies that came in and all the resources they brought in from other states. I mean it was a big big response. So what was the number?

The state's well aware of it. What was the number of houses still? You said, Bruce, you said a 100 people were without I agree with you 100%. I still think it's a fail on the state to allow 100 homes to have no heat going into the winter. I think they they should what? No matter what they could step up and do something. It's on us too though. We're community bigger. Congress, right, bro? I'm not Congress. I just tired of How much is HC? Like 10,000 bucks, right? I mean a space heater, too. I mean, that's I mean, for now, I mean, that's what you need. Yeah. I hope they I hope they're doing their due diligence with like social media campaigns and stuff in the surrounding areas.

Well, we got a short-term and a long-term idea, right? Shortterm is that we can send something out longterm, maybe we can talk to that organization about our idea about matching funds. Uh, MML open session is next week. Um, that's something that we could bring up if we have anybody there. So, but we need to figure out what we're going to do now.

Well, it's the amount, right? That's what So, the question I I still think the letter to get everybody that's easy. We just reach out to MML, but the amount I don't I don't know how much to give them a lot to just kind of gave. I like that this is coming through MML because um really can't support every single thing. So having it be vetted by that's that's who that's who initiated this communications to us. So I I'll reach out to Teresa tomorrow. Ask MML what to give.

Are we asking MML what to give or we I think that's Go ahead. Sam wants You're fine. Well, I think that would be asked. Can we can we get some additional context maybe like who else? Yeah. Like the need or like what a recommendation is or like to Lor's point like like what are others doing so we can I don't want to be the cheap person but by any stretch. I want to make sure we're giving the support they need. If we have a cap for the mayor. Yeah. I mean it's real funny. We can tell SHA not to take two weeks, but when people code, we going to wait for an answer. But you can also I'll cover that too. If you if you're saying 25K, oh,

if that is possible, if that is something that we can do, we should just go ahead and just get that out the way and then look at the long-term goals to see how we can continue to help or make sure other people help. That's all I'm saying. Higher budget amendment, but uh it's possible, right? Um, but I I think that the approach like make the decision of what the council is doing and then figure out the rest, right, moving forward because the need is immediate. Immediate. Immediate. Yeah. I think I might have heard Dan mention that we're late to the game. Yeah. Because he said in November it was brought up.

So I think maybe because we weren't there in the ML I think because we weren't there. That is why but they just sent an email last week very recently. Yeah, they just that's been within the past week. Yeah. Likely what happened is that the people who were most able to help and closest in proximity to help did help and now they're saying, "Hey, there's an additional need." And so they tapped MML's nonprofit to reach out to the network to say, "Is there something else you can do to help fill in the gap?" Mayor, do you have an idea of what you would want to

No, not off the top of my head. I mean, whatever you all think might be appropriate, but we'll we'll dig into it some more. But I mean, I I gather from what I'm hearing that you all are in favor of doing something in favor of doing. Yeah. At least. So, I mean, that's that's all we need for tonight. Can we since the council the next can we like if can we come up with see what we got from MML for the next one and if they're put on the agenda and if it's not if they haven't been able to give us an answer or something then we can just make call because otherwise we're not going to be in a position other than yeah other than you saying 25 grand which then fine that's where like some so we give them time but then we're not

holding ourselves to execute something. We can assign fines that you all would need to vote on because it would likely require a budget amendment and that's where you would weigh in. Not the mayor has the approval, but we don't necessarily have um fun a line item for this. Yeah. for this. But this is also something to consider moving forward as we move into the next budget cycle is do we want to have these type funds available so that if there are other municipalities in need the mayor can act without needing a vote first or a budget amendment this but no but it's only it would I mean you can

or that will spread very quickly but the council is the one who would put it out and the public can um come to the budget hearings to provide input if they feel like it needs to be lower or higher. Right. But we do want to make sure that the town is positioned to respond. Yeah. To be responsive to the needs. The emergency, it could be considered an emergency meeting if we did need to do something like that because it's public health and safety. Absolutely. But this is more so proactively making sure that the budget is structured in a way that the town is able to be responsive to our neighbors.

We don't have anything in there right now that we could tie this to in the current budget like miscellaneous. Well, I can, but I don't know how much left in there donation to, you know, events or you know the committees and things like that. To clarify, could we we could vote to say like let's say notionally we we say $30,000. We could say we want to go and then we could do it and then we just can retroactively do the budget amendment or do we need to do all that would need to be first before you spend the money. But what we can do is made an event. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

What we can do is I can work with Dan to figure out what is available to be able to put forth. As long as it's, you know, under 25,000 we can move forward with that. Um, and see what we have. Take it out of public works. All right. They don't need it. Public don't need it. There you go. Absolutely not. They already absolutely event about flooding. We have all the all the money we need. Okay. Seate.

No, I think I think we're done. So, is there a motion for a German? Second. All in favor? I I opposed. Hearing none. We are ajourned. Thank you, council. Good meeting tonight.

Yeah, we're late, man.