Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Yes, they are.

When it ticks 6.30 in 10 seconds, we will start. 30 seconds.

It's up to her. Is the clock fixed outside yet?

Yeah.

Okay. The official time, Carver. Thank you, everyone, for joining. I will call the meeting to order. Can we get a motion to approve the agenda?

Motion to approve. Second.

Any further discussion? All in favor? Aye. And opposed? Motion carries. And our last meeting was April 16th. Can I get a motion to approve the previous minutes?

So moved.

Second.

Any further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Those opposed? Motion carries. Next, we'll have a public hearing on the Summerfield preliminary plat and rezoning.

Thank you. So we have two agenda items tonight. Like the chair and planning commission just said, we'll do summer field first. So that does include a public hearing. So we'll give some information. There will be time for public to come and join us at the table. I ask when you join us to give comment that the green light is on that microphone just so we can pick it up for folks that might be watching at home. And then after the summer field applications, you're welcome to stay if you would like, but you do not have to. We do have a second agenda item. We have kind of a wonky lot combination, lot split on 6th Street. So moving into Summerfield, which is why I suspect many of you are in the room tonight, we're looking for a recommendation from the Planning Commission on preliminary plot and rezoning. Anytime property is annexed into the city, the default zoning is agriculture. So this is not uncommon or unique to this property. Anything that comes in, it's agriculture with the anticipation that there will be a rezoning that takes place when development is contemplated. So that's tonight for the Summerfield project. The request for rezoning is to go to R2 or Residential 2 with a planned residential development or a PRD overlay. I'll explain the variations to the R2 district that they're looking for with that PRD approval. So how this meeting is going to work, I'm going to do a staff presentation. I'll ask Casey, maybe Ryan, to come up. We'll have some dialogue with just the Planning Commission. So if you have questions specifically for me or for the developer, we'll work through those first. We'll then do the public hearing. You'll close the public hearing. You can have some additional discussion. And then again, looking for recommendation by the Planning Commission for preliminary plot and rezoning. Some context for where we are so people can get their bearings a little bit if this is their first time looking at the project. The general project area for phase one is circled in blue on the map right now. So a couple markers that are on the map are Carver Elementary and Creekside Park. A lot of folks refer to this intersection as when you split to go to Jordan. So if you've been out there lately, you've seen the Summer Gate trailer that has been there. That's the general project area. And then on the right is the city's comprehensive plan, which will be an important part of tonight's discussion as we talk about rezoning, densities, and the platting for the property. Some details, things that we've been working on a little bit behind the scenes. The Planning Commission reviewed concept plan at your March 20th, 2025 meeting. So it's been a little bit since we've seen that full-blown project. The project was recently annexed into city limits, which is an action by the township. and the city council. Again, that default zoning to ag is not uncommon to this property. The thing that has taken a lot of time is the alternate urban area reviewer, the AUAR process, which got completed on Monday by the city council. They did their final review. We held a neighborhood meeting on June 4th, so just a couple weeks ago, knowing that folks probably had really specific questions about their property in relationship to the project specifically. So we had a really great crowd come in. They were eager that we didn't have time to set up our easels because they were quick to look at the information. We got some good feedback, answered some questions, able to make connections with folks too to be able to say like, yep, we'll follow up on that or we're thinking about that in phase XYZ. So I suspect some folks from the neighborhood meeting might also join us for the public hearing, which is great. And then something else to note is that this is a phased project. So you probably have heard through the Carver Grapevine that this project is coming in. It's 2,500 units, and it's all going to happen tomorrow. At the end of the day, it could be that size, but it will be several years. So we'll move through the project phased. So tonight we're just reviewing phase one of that project. We do anticipate many more phases to come through the final process moving through for the next several years. A little bit of detail about the AUAR, it's not something that the Planning Commission reviews, but I think it's something that's important to know that we worked on it, that the work was complete. It took us about 14-ish months from start to finish. It was Bolton and Bank, the city's engineer, and then Westwood, Summergate's engineer, working together on the plan to develop the AUAR. Turned out to be about 1,200 pages in total, so it was a behemoth of a document. It's a hybrid between an Environmental Assessment Worksheet, or an EAW, and an Environmental Impact Statement, or an EIS. So those are two reviews required by the state based on project size. The AUAR kind of threads the needle between the two that it's a little bit more flexible and that it's more of a living document. But the AUAR is the cumulative impact of development scenarios. So you go from a range of what happens if nothing gets built on this property to what happens if the most intense things happen on the property. So you look at that as a range. So it's not just a day one baseline project you look at. You look at how things could change depending on what uses go in. So some topics that were looked at, land use, geology, water resources, traffic, wildlife, visual impact, air, greenhouse gases, noise. So really ran a large scale of environmental review that happened with this project. There were several comment periods that were required for impacted local government units. So those are things local, so it's people who are near us. So Dahlgren Township had a chance to comment, and the MPCA had a chance to comment. So it was both local and state agencies. And generally, the information was really straightforward. We got some feedback about things to include or pieces that were confusing for folks that were doing the review. But in general, the entire process was pretty straightforward. Nothing came up as a fatal flaw for the project or the AUAR. Something to note is that the AUAR area was beyond the Summerfield area. So Summerfield has a project area that's been identified. We asked them to spread the AUAR beyond that because we realized that development of any part of this area, we should think about the entire area. So thinking about utilities became really important for us. What happens in phase one is really important in phase 15 when that project comes in 10 years. So we asked them to expand the project area beyond their specific project area to give us more information. So we were able to gather additional information beyond areas that they were contemplating for development. There's a really large ravine system on the west side of their project area that if you ask Casey today, will we ever cross it with his project, he'd say probably not. But we know what that could look like in the future. the time of development for that space. So when I talked about the AUAR, it's a little bit different than an EAW and an EIS that it's more of a living document. So as projects come in, we'll update the AUAR so it continues to move and flex with the projects that come in so we can understand them and their impact to a greater level.

Erin, can I ask a question? So you mentioned that It covered beyond the summer field area, but in that definition, is that phase one summer field area or the whole 2,500 map? Total 2,500. So it went beyond what we've seen from what a potential summer field could be at 2,500. Correct. Got it.

And it could be that summer field continues on into some of those spaces, so it was good information for everybody across the board. It could be summer field that can pick some of that work up. It could be a different group coming in.

Okay. Thank you.

So there are some details that we know. The next slide is things that we don't know, but the things that we do know that we can run through really quick is that phase one is 273 lots. So it's, again, phase one of many. There are three parcels that are contemplated for development tonight. The guidance for them, two are low density, one is medium density. The lots range from 35 foot wide lots to 60 foot wide lots. There's a robust HOA throughout the project. There are a couple of private parks in the development as well as some extensive buffering. So there's buffering along streets and some of those park spaces and then also some agricultural uses that will continue while this project begins. So allowing for those two uses to live in harmony hopefully with some extensive buffering between the two. There's a sidewalk and trail plan throughout the project. It also contemplates an underpass at the roundabout so folks can safely get from the west side of JCP to the east into the larger trail system in city of Carver. Two builders are contemplated right now, so Lennar, who formerly have done, it's under construction, so Timber Creek in town, Oak Tree is a completed project, and MI Homes, which is the meadows at Spring Creek, which is off Spring Creek Drive near Mount Hope Road. So there's also a large community scale park in a future phase, so it's not contemplated as part of phase one. And we do know that there will be a roundabout heading into the phase one project area. Project details we don't know. So the corridor is obviously a huge piece of this project and there are a lot of cooks in that kitchen. So it's the county, since it's a county road, the developer, and the city. So it's the three groups working together to solve what that corridor looks like on JCP. There are so many unknowns that what we can commit to right now is that an open house will be held. So we know what's going to happen for phase one. Beyond that, we're not super sure. Just with how things are going to lay out north and south of the project who's going to run the project is it a county project is it a city process etc so there's a ton of unknowns but we're committing right now to sharing that information when we have it so just know that the phase one portion of this project is the known stuff outside of that we have an idea of what it might look like but if the answer is we're not sure it's because we haven't done extensive work on some of those corridor pieces with the county We also don't know right now about the mixed use section. So when you come into phase one on the south side of the road, there's an area labeled for mixed use. So that could be a mix of commercial and residential. As we continue to work through the phasing of the project, we will likely learn more. And we don't know a ton about future phases. So if you're really excited about phase three, That's great, but we don't have a ton of detail about it I probably get like a call a week about the potential age-restricted neighborhood So there is a lot of excitement about that So we know that that desire is there from folks and that people are excited about it We don't know specifically about the timing right now So on the screen now on the left is the phase one project area called out on the map. So you can start to see where those three parcels are in relation to County Road 11 and then some township roads as well. I've labeled in blue the comp plan on the right. So there is a distinction. It's hard to always see on this map. screen there's two light yellows and then one a little bit darker yellow. The darker yellow is that medium density that we're looking for so as you enter the project the medium density is first with the two low density projects or the two low density parcels coming further west. A layout of phase one is on the screen now. So you can start to feel how things lay out. You start to see that roundabout coming into play to get into the development. And you can start to see how the lots lay out for that medium density and then moving to the low density. So starting kind of going east to west, the 35 foot lots are first, moving to 60 on the south corner of phase one of the project area. So again, the 35 and 40 foot lots fulfill that need for the medium density. And then you move to more traditional single family with the two parcels that are further west. An overall phasing plan is on the screen right now, again on the left. So that's how you can start to see how the project intertwines with the other areas. There are some spaces that you'll see that are not mapped out right now or they're not in color. Those areas are not contemplated for development right now. So that could be that the folks are not interested in selling or They have a different plan right now that could change in the future, but right now anything that is not colored is not contemplated as part of the summer field project. So Sherry, like you asked, anything beyond that that we did in the AUAR is outside of that project boundary. So we extended to 43. So this map obviously doesn't show that. It's not currently a part of the project area, but it was part of that AUAR portion. Something that puzzled us for a long time was the relationship of this project to township roads, knowing that township roads, a couple of them are gravel. Folks use them primarily for residential uses, so adding 273 lots onto some of those felt really scary, both at a staff level and for folks that live in the area, thinking about what 273 units would do to a township road that is probably minimally maintained and gravel. So as part of the phase one development, as proposed, we will not connect the streets into those township roads right now. So on the screen where I have those yellow blocks, the street will stop short. So there's two on the north, one on the south that will funnel people through the roundabout onto the county road system. When phase two comes in on the north side, that street will connect across Mount Carmel. So it's Mount Carmel is the north road that has those two blocks. And then it will allow for additional access throughout the project. But as part of phase one, we're planning to stop those roads short so we don't impact folks in the township with the amount of traffic that phase one could generate onto those township roads that are, again, used for residential use right now. And that would be impactful for the road and the people that are living there now. So some details that are important on the screen, you can see, it's a little bit small in here, but you can see the layout of the Lennar versus MI homes. So on the left is the Lennar key, and then the right is MI. So moving through the, it's like the 35, 40, 45, and 50 are the Lennar product, and then the 50 and 60 are the MI homes. So the split between the two is that Lennar primarily is doing that medium density product, And MI is doing the low-density product through the project. On the screen now is the preliminary plot, the document that solidifies the plan set that goes with these, solidifies how we think the lots will layout, how the streets will layout, et cetera. So things that are important are things like access, so you see the roundabout moving into the project, lot layout, street design. So the preliminary plot, again, is on the screen now. And then you'll notice that there are a lot of outlots that are included in the preliminary plot. So I thought it was important to consider those as part of your review. So like I mentioned, there's pretty extensive buffering throughout the project. So Outlot A, which is the furthest west beyond that development road, is a farmland buffer. So the property owner west will plan to continue to farm and use that property as is for the time being. So there will be buffering in Outlot A for that user and also the new users that come into the Summerfield project. And then like I previously mentioned, there's a robust HOA that will maintain those landscape buffers. So it can get a little bit tricky when we put buffers in and then someone moves in and maybe doesn't want all those trees and takes them out because it then takes away the buffer. But if it's HOA owned, you know that it will be there in perpetuity, will be cared for at an HOA level. And then there are also two private parks that are included in the project. So we'll get into some detail about those two as we continue through the discussion. But the outlots are a little atypical for what we typically see. Absolutely an option. The landscape buffering, I think, is important. So I think that's a way that we can maintain that landscape to be true for all folks moving forward. So like I mentioned previously, that PRD, why they're requesting it, the changes that they're looking for. So on the top is the R2 zoning district. So the project came in with straight R2 zoning. These would be the requirements they would need to meet. And then the PUD standard is on the bottom. So for the R2 zoning district, the minimum lot area is 7,000 square feet. The 35 foot single family lots come in at about 4,200 square feet, the average being 4,700 square feet. So that's obviously a deviation from the R2 minimum lot area. Lot width is another one. Obviously, the zoning code calls for 60 feet. These run from 35 to 60. Front yard setbacks stays the same at 25 feet. And then they're requesting a side yard setback reduction from 7.5 to 5 feet. And then rear yard is consistent with 20 feet. So those are the details of that PRD that they're requesting as part of the rezoning request. So the R2 PRD details are on the screen now. So thinking through the comp plan and how those properties are guided, low density residential calls for three to five units per acre. So you can see for the low density that's included in the preliminary plat and the development data, it falls at three point, is it nine two? Okay, thanks for the confirmation. And then the medium density, which is where those 35, 40 foot lots needs to be between five and 12 units per acre. And that hits at 5.45 units. So consistent with the comp plan with those residential densities throughout the project. A few things to note related to trail. Again, I mentioned the roundabout with the underpass. So understanding that there is going to be a high concentration of folks on the west side of JCP trying to get across the street safely. So a roundabout underpass feels the most appropriate in this location. We ran through probably every option of which direction that underpass could go. For a while we thought diagonally was the right answer. So we worked really hard to figure out how we thought folks would move and how it would be most effective to get people from the west side to the east side of GCP, then into our system along the county road, which obviously opens up greater into the full system of the city. And then something else to note is just an enhanced pedestrian crossing that happens pretty early in the development with sidewalk or trail on both sides in the future. So folks can move also through the development that way, especially if there is that future mixed use space. So if there is some commercial user, like a quick coffee shop or a gas station that folks are trying to get to, they would have pedestrian access to get there as well. Landscape is on the screen now. So something that's a little bit different than typical for us is that there aren't a lot of trees on this property right now, which makes it a little bit easier for the landscape document. We typically are battling back, trying to figure out where more trees can go. That's not the case here. With the amount of trees that are on the property, but then the proposed buffering, the landscape shakes to work out for just the landscape plan with some pretty extensive tree plantings. So an example of that buffering, so on the north side of the screen is that main corridor, the collector street that will go east to west, and then you can see the buffering that will happen directly south of that between the lots and then that collector level street. So thinking about that street when it comes in, it will act very similarly to Monroe Drive. So if you think about what that feels like, the amount of traffic, how you interface with that street, it'll be really similar. So it will not feel like a highway by any means, but it will carry quite a bit of traffic. So folks having that buffer will be helpful for their backyards. And then you can see plantings throughout the development as well on each lot. Some samples from Lennar of what the proposed houses could look like moving forward into the project. So you'll start to kind of get a feel for what they will look like based on the width of the home. I can't think of a time that we've done two-stall garage new construction. So this will be a different product that is offered in Lennar. I'm trying to think of where, like... I don't know if we've done a new construction without the option of a third stall. Okay, that's for me to think about later. But bringing a different product line to the community with that two stall. And then a range of what the homes could look like. So on the left is the smallest unit at 1200 ish square feet, the largest at about 2200. So many of them are proposed as slab on grade homes. So if you think about the homes that are in the meadows where folks are on one level can be a zero entry access. So to allow people to age in their home, have a slab on grade one level home would be an option here in Summerfield. And then a more traditional two-story home is on the right. So offerings both by Lennar here. and then an idea of what some of the MI homes could look like as well. So that wraps up my portion of the presentation. Casey, do you want to come up and join us for the discussion?

Good evening. I'm Casey Walshlager with Summer Gate Development. Yeah, we're really excited about the project. One of the things that she touched on a little bit is the biggest change is that under the original concept, we had actual townhomes in that first phase, or on the far east side of the first phase. And what we did was, as we were working with a lot of the builders, we kind of discovered that townhomes themselves are... I don't want to call them dinosaurs now, but they're kind of moving that way a little bit. And so what Lennar did, if we kind of went back to the product types. is they basically took a townhome product, that might be a four-unit, six-unit building, and they broke it out into smaller pieces. That's why you see the two-car garages, because it's essentially the townhome unit still, but on an individual lot. So now people can come in and get a home, have their own little lot, have their own little thing, and basically kind of get in a townhome still. And that's why we had to deviate so much from the standard zoning classification is to accommodate really detached townhomes even though they're individual lots. And one of the biggest reasons for the detachment of the townhomes is there's been a change over the last seven or eight years with HOAs. And the biggest change is insurance. So if you live in a townhome association, especially a multi-unit type townhome. Anybody who lives in them could probably tell you that their association dues keep going up dramatically and they're not getting any different services. They're not getting better shoveling or grass or whatever. They're just paying for insurance. So the insurance industry has consolidated from 50 companies that insure town homes down to a much smaller handful of companies that will insure town homes. And if you can imagine, less people providing means the cost goes up. And the biggest problem is on a six or eight unit building, you get a storm damage, you replace part of the roof, you replace the whole roof. At least we ought to hope that if it was our own house, but with the association stuff, that's generally what happens. Then the cost now for insurance claims goes up dramatically because six years later, you can't match the siding, so you replace siding on the whole building and it just kind of snowballs. So the insurance industry is actually pushing Part of this is people trying to find a way to still keep the price down. So when we talk about affordability, when you go to apply for a mortgage, it happens in a couple numbers that they include. They include not only just your mortgage payment, but they include your association dues. So if you can take the association dues number out of the equation, because these won't be part of a, they'll be part of a master association, paying a nominal fee yearly just for those common areas that she was talking about. but the home itself doesn't have coverage through the association, so that gets peeled out, which is quickly escalating to $300 to $400 a month goes away, and that adds to the affordability of the home. So most of these homes might be similarly priced to a townhome, and then you don't have that 400, so more people can afford to buy the home. And that's the whole goal of this kind of project. On the plan itself, it kind of varies. There's a little bit smaller plan. There was lots of different plans there, and you can look through them, and we can provide them to people if they need them or whatever. But they've got a lot of different variations, and the idea was to create multiple, like she said, multiple ways for people to afford to live in the neighborhood. Starter homes, people who've got kids, so they've got the, they're both on slab, but now they've got a second story, so they can have more bedrooms and more space for the family. And then as it goes from Lennar to M&I, M&I has standard two-story product. So there's stuff which you kind of see in the bottom left and the bottom right. Those homes would be standard basements, everything, you know, standard homes. What they show on the top there and in the middle, that's their villa product. So the top northeast section of our plan or phase one plan, northwest section, excuse me, is going to be villas. And the plan for that would be, if you're familiar with that, is just generally 55 plus, but it doesn't have a restriction on age. It just, that's what the demo that it's aimed for. And that would be usually including trash, snow removal, and things like that for that neighborhood. And generally those, because it doesn't, they're individual lots, again, they don't have to have an HOA that's covered insurance and things like that. It allows the HOA to stay as affordable as possible, I guess, so it doesn't impact the ability for people to buy. Other than that, I don't have anything else unless you guys have something to ask me.

Thanks, Casey. So we will have some commission discussion. I'm sure there's a fair number of comments up here. Do you want to start, Sherry?

Sure. So I just want to clarify what I heard. So in the Lennar homes... Those are HOA, but there won't be like lawn care, lawn mowing, snow removal, none of that.

As a matter of fact, all the lots in the whole project will be part of a master HOA to cover just landscaping. Monuments and landscaping. Monumentation mostly in the little common area pocket parks that are part of the city park system.

Okay. Safety jumps right to my mind. and the people that are living there. So if we have all these homes that are slab, they're built on grade, how are we providing, like have we thought about emergency shelters? Tornado warning, where do all these people go if they don't have basements?

You know, that's a good question. I guess I don't have a specific answer for that myself. We could ask the builders and get back to you guys on some type of response.

It's a really dense population, a lot of homes packed into a space, and nobody has a basement. So I think safety and what are the opportunities for our residents in that space. And then I jump to the fire side of this. If we've got 10 feet between homes, it's on a windy day, structure fire will jump from house to house to house. So are we requiring or is there a, is there a sprinkler system in these? Because now there's no sprinkler requirements.

There is a fire code that requires a different kind of siding and then different kinds of wood products that are used on the sides of other properties. I'm not a home builder, so I'm not an expert on it, but everybody talks about how it actually cost, I think, $3,000 or $4,000 a house extra to put different materials in different ways. They do the eaves and stuff to reduce the chances of what you're talking about. But if we were to squish these together, you would have the same situation if these were town homes, whether or not they're split. It's actually, in the majority of the cases, probably safer to be split apart than to be together on a six-unit building versus having it spread out on how fast the fire would spread.

Okay. Those are my questions for now. Thank you.

For now? Like you're going to ask more later? I mean, you might stir up another question. Okay. Jim?

I'll ask, so what's the price range expected to be on these houses?

Yeah, Lennar tells me for their product, they expect them to start with the three, but they don't know exactly the number yet, only because by the time they start delivering houses next year, I don't know what war we might be in or not be in, so who knows what might affect things. So they're telling me upper threes for their smaller product, where M&I will be probably in the 500s to 600s for their product. And Lennar will have a price range in there, two, 300s, 400s, maybe up to 500 on some of their biggest product.

Now, make sure I understand. the homeowners association will take care of all the lawns?

No. No.

So it's up to the individual homeowner.

So these are individual lots. That's why you see, like when you do, usually on the individual, like the association maintenance, you'd see what they call zero lot lines. You don't see the lot lines between each house. Those kind of disappear. And then everything's kind of done a little bit different here. Maybe go back to that white one where you can see the lines a little bit. There you go. These have individual lots. You kind of see it there. Individual lot lines. So that person maintains their own lot.

So just for some clarity too, like the boxes that are in here would be the buildable area. So the lots extend beyond that. So the squares within the lot would be the buildable area with a lot extending on all sides. And we can go to the full plot.

There you go. And then like the common areas are gonna be the areas mostly along the roads in the pocket parks that the HOA is gonna maintain. Those buffer areas like she was talking about. The pond areas are gonna be owned by the city, so those will be maintained by the city.

And they'll be all city streets? Correct.

Since we're on the streets, are they wider streets because we have so many people here?

No, there are standard 24 face-to-face.

The residential streets are 32 feet face-to-face, which is a city standard for parking on both sides. And then the collective street is obviously much wider with medians and turn lanes.

And, of course, the fire engines.

Well, you put a fire engine in there, nobody's getting around. Anything else, Jim?

No. I got some doozies today. Um, so have we ever had any other setbacks that are seven and a half feet side yard?

Five or seven and a half.

Oh, five, I guess.

Yes. Several. Okay. Uh, Oak tree, the villas by Lennar meadows at spring Creek, which is the MI product. Brookview is at five river bluff estates is at five.

So yes. Yes. OK. If you go back to the image where there's the two-car garages, there's no maintenance included. So you have a two-car garage, which is probably going to be overly small, so it won't fit most vehicles. And then you're going to be asked to have a snow blower and a lawn mower. So isn't it just going to collect crap on the driveway and the street?

I guess that could happen.

Correct. I mean, you want a new development to look nice, so I think it's a consideration. You have a narrow lot. Can you adjust the garage size? You can never have a big enough garage, according to my husband. Just a consideration. When is the timing of this? I know we don't know the road start. That's the unknown page. But how do you add 276 houses to... a road that's already busy, you have, I mean, left and right turn lanes going into a dog park and pickleball, which is great, but that's maybe five cars a day, an hour, when you have the bluffs and overlook, and there's no entrances, exits to those roads, so safety-wise, I just, I have a hard time saying, yeah, go ahead, put 276 houses in when you have no road.

So after preliminary plot approval, a developer can apply for a grading agreement with the city. So that typically takes a season to do mass grading site work. So to get through to that piece, you typically have to do preliminary plot approval. So we want to anticipate that folks will start living there in 2026. Not to speak for Casey, but I would say phase two is probably close behind phase one. So I don't think the singular access is a long-term solution. But I also will say that having folks try to access JCP from Mount Carmel.

Let me get a better view of it.

Adding additional traffic from this entire development onto Mount Carmel. is likely not a safe solution either. So cutting off the development streets prior to that allowed us to keep it as a residential township street, but also this access is really close to that full intersection. So this access generally I would say will change in the future as well, but that's just as the project continues and phasing continues. Do you wanna go?

Yeah, and just to be clear, the county is conceptually, we know that these improvements have to happen to the county road. We've been working on a corridor study with the county right now, and we're putting together the framework for how this project is gonna move forward between the county and the city. So that's a near-term issue that's gonna be moving forward. Everybody acknowledges improvements are needed to support the traffic of this development. there are gonna be intersection improvements that are gonna be going in to support this project.

Before the development, before the people, 276 houses happen?

Yes, we're going to be, the plan is right now to be working on those intersection improvements next year. Perfect.

So what this process does is that it allows Summergate to do some of the site work so they can start doing the grading, they can start doing utilities, street work, while the work is also being done to the county road. So when folks are living in the space, those things come together hopefully pretty close to the same time if things go the way that we hope it will. Okay, thank you.

And then if you go back to the map of where the underpass is and the sidewalk connection. So on the upper right-hand corner, the trail ends part of the corridor plan. I'm assuming it will connect all the way. Correct. OK. That wasn't so bad. Eric?

Yeah, sure. I got a bunch of questions here. So I'll start first. So phase one, obviously we got a couple of national builders ID and phase two and beyond is probably the solidest jello right now, but has any, even though there are kind of a dying breed, especially in this area, is any local builders express any kind of interest at all of getting involved where they've been basically priced out due to economies of scale?

little bit of that but not really i mean generally when we start a larger project we work with a few of the national builders because they help honestly help bring it through a little bit faster and hit price points that we're trying to aim for for the community but the project if we were looking at the master and there's going to be a lot of different kinds of product in here sure i've got a large number of you know minnesota local builders who are interested in being in the project So it's not a matter of if, it's just where they'll end up.

Okay. It seems like it's too late now for phase one, having local builders.

When we looked at the design, we didn't talk about it too much, but we created what we call pods. And the Lennar pod, that kind of centerpiece, has a housing style that has multiple different complementary elements to itself. And then we created another pod up on the top for M&I to be able to do their villa product. And we created a different product or a pod down in the south down there to do standard two-story homes with basements and whatever, you know, three-car garages, that kind of stuff. And as we kind of move, if you kind of look at the left image, In phase two, which is more likely gonna happen up on the north there, there'll be all sorts of different lot sizes and products there where we can work with multiple different builders and see those come in there. And we think that over time, because the product doesn't really end here, kind of keeps moving to the south and to the west, there'll be multiple different product types again. You know, like a number of builders have asked, hey, you know, we want to put some, like, nicer homes in with bigger lots. We kind of anticipate that more backing up to the kind of the ravine slash the creek, Carver Creek, that runs... kind of on the northwest corner there. And that's where we kind of envision maybe some of those lots in a later phase. It's about getting to it more than anything.

Okay. I got some basically specifics about the layout of things in no particular order. Going to the roundabout, the entrance there, it's, let's see, Outlaw H Pond. It looks like, I don't know the accuracy of the map here, but it looks like the northeast corner of Outlaw H, that pond, triangular pond on the north side of the roundabout is pretty close to somebody's existing house or shed back there. Has that been discussed and mitigated?

I don't know if this, you were talking to, that homeowner did come to kind of our open house a couple weeks back. And I know that you were talking to, I wasn't part of that conversation, but I was talking to someone else.

I mean, obviously the fidelity of the picture is a little low, but you've got a red dotted line going through an existing building right now, so it makes me think there's some encroachment issues maybe looming.

Hmm.

So, well, I guess from a footprint standpoint, all the improvements will be located within the property that is owned by the developer. Okay. So if there's a boundary survey issue, that will get cleaned up as part of the planning process.

Can you talk about, too, how a pond, how you measure for a high water level compared to where you think it will be?

Yeah. So for ponding, you have like the normal water level of the pond, which is kind of where like the water sits when it isn't raining, but then they call it the high water level. So that's in basically for a hundred year rainfall event, which is like 7.2 inches per hour. It's very high intensity storm, 24 hour distribution. how high is the water gonna get in the pond during that event? So that's kind of the extreme case, but what engineers designed the ponding for to support the 100-year event.

Okay, we'll go in the same vein as far as the rain events. The two dry ponds, Outlots D and J, if I hear correctly, those would be city-owned?

Or is that incorrect? All ponding is going to be operated and maintained by the city in the future.

Okay. Will those areas be usable then by local residents? Once it dries, is it green space or whatnot?

No.

Okay. That's disappointing.

Could I add a little to that? Sure, please. Part of the reason... and he could probably elaborate, but part of the reason you don't want people actually doing things on the dry ponds or any of the ponds, really, is that the ponds are usually lined with materials that help them either infiltrate water into the ground or hold water. And if people are out running around down there, they could damage that and then damage the functionality of the pond. Even though I've seen people do what you're talking about, so I guess I couldn't say kids wouldn't run around down there. But usually when people start doing stuff on there and then they're building ramps, they're doing all sorts of different stuff, then it probably creates even a liability issue for, in this case, maybe the city.

Yeah, I was just curious what the innovation was, you know, living in... Phoenix and also in Tucson, they have wash gullies and whatnot that, you know, they're usable for when you get the monsoons rolling through in the summer and it'd flood out, but when it dried out, they're encouraged to be used. You know, they'd walk in paths and stuff and benches and all kinds, so it's still kind of dual use. I was curious if that was maybe a possibility in this division.

A little bit different soil types here than there, but I've done some projects there, so I'm kind of more familiar with what you're talking about. Yeah, I think it more has to do with how easy they can be damaged than anything.

Okay. I do like the idea of having a couple of privately owned pocket parks. That's nice to have some green space out there and also not another infrastructure bill for the city to pay for. I have some density questions. So what are we sitting at now currently with as-built and approved projects as far as citywide density metrics?

I don't know the number off the top of my head, but we're in compliance with our comp plan.

OK. So since we're talking generalities, with the layout as is right now, does this increase our density or lower the city's density numbers?

So the density is based on our future land use map. And we have these guided. The first property is guided medium, which these lots hit.

Sure.

And the two adjacent hit low. So it's in compliance with our future land use map.

Sure. I'm just wondering, are we more dense than we need to be at this point?

That would be a much larger conversation if you wanted to change the comp plan. We've had this property guided as medium density since the update that happened in 2018. The overall density for the community with the next plan has to be 3.5. Our overall plan right now sits about there. So if we change nothing about our future land use map, it typically would work. But we do have some pockets that are medium and high density that would need to be considered as we move through. So if you wanted to change this to low, we would have to balance it elsewhere.

Well, it's not the venue that changed. I'm just curious where the needle moves with this project as far as density numbers.

It doesn't.

OK. Those are my questions.

When you talk about this project, are we talking about this project of 240 homes or 270? 273. Not 2,500?

So it's a parcel-by-parcel basis of how we have it guided. So the first parcel needs to hit medium between 5 to 12. This is at about 5 1⁄2. 5.42, I think. So that checks out for this parcel. So I wouldn't think about it project wide, because it will change so drastically. It's, I think, a clear comparison if you go parcel by parcel, how you have it guided and how it's developing.

Thank you. Scott, any questions?

Yeah, I do. So Erin and Casey, thank you for the information. I guess it's nice to go last because over half my questions have been answered, so thank you. First one for Erin, was it A-E-U-R?

A-U-A-R.

Okay, sorry. Is that publicly available?

Yes, it's on the city website. Okay, all right. 1,200 pages of it.

Yeah, I know. It's for the World Cup.

Bedtime.

Yeah.

A couple questions I have. So I like the pocket parks, but I'm concerned that, you know, this is phase one, and then if future phases are delayed for any reason, that the citizens here aren't going to have access to much of a larger park that might be envisioned in the future phases. There's just one pocket park in this?

Two.

There's two?

So there's one here.

Okay.

And then here. And then there's that trail system between the two.

But the future phases are envisioned to have some larger parks in them.

Yeah. So in the parks master plan, we contemplate like a 30 plus acre park that could fall in phase two or three potentially. So it's just south of this, the phase right now.

Okay. And then related to the trail system, would the trail system go in at the same time the development's going in so these residents have access to like Creek Park and Community Park and everything? Correct. Yep. Okay, so that would be part of the roundabout installation. You got it. Okay. Those are my questions.

Anything for you, Lincoln?

I have one more. I'm sorry. That's going to happen when you let me go first. So I'm looking at... How do you even explain this? The south side in the 60 square foot, yep, in this loop, this graphic is different than the black and white one. Okay, so over here you see it's got a little bit of an outlot. This.

Yeah, that one's a little out of date. from right before we made the change. Got it. The engineering staff had us make some edits there to make it get to not that version, Karen, but that version. This version. So the bump is gone.

So for the record, I like that better than what you had on the black and white one. Great. I was very curious of why we had an outlot and we just didn't make it a half cul-de-sac instead of putting something there in the middle. So, okay. It's gone. It's gone. It's magic perfect. Yeah. Sorry, one other. Sorry. On the where the tunnel is to go under, on the other side of the roundabout, there's like a white line that goes across the road. Is that a crossing spot?

Do you want to take it? Which spot are you looking at? Yeah.

Yeah. So there's the underpass, but on the other side of the roundabout, there's a white line.

Like on the west, on the development leg, or which leg? Look where I'm circling. Yeah? Go to the other side. That's the underpass.

That's the underpass, but then there's a white line right there. Here? Yeah. What's that?

That's a...

Is that a crossing?

That's a crossing, but that's still with the county road project. We haven't vetted out whether or not we're going to allow accurate crossings on all the other legs or not. So that's still a conversation item that'll have to happen as part of the county road project.

Okay.

Sometimes you eliminate it intentionally so you can't cross. So it's more of a county policy item that we'll have to figure out with them as we develop the county road project.

I mean, we developed the underpass, though, so that it was a safe way to cross under. But then on the other side of that roundabout, we're going to let people cross. So it doesn't seem.

No, comment definitely noted. That's an open comment that has to be resolved.

The plan you see is really a sketch plan, conceptual plan. So I think I've seen even different versions a little bit already.

Okay, well we'll wait for a new version that looks a little bit better. Thank you for all the commission discussion. We will open the public hearing. So I ask for a motion to open the public hearing.

So moved.

Second. Perfect. So we will now open the public hearing for both preliminary flat and rezoning. When you come forward, please begin by stating your name and address for the record. Once all public comments have been received, the public hearing will be closed and no further comments on this item will be accepted during the meeting. So who wants to be first? Come on up. State your name and your address.

I'm and my address is 14355 Jonathan Carver Parkway. And I have another property at 14510 County Road 40. And what I'm thinking about here is that lands up there if there's we had 100 inches of snow melt one time and it's filled in the land and water ran over the road at mount hope road or mount carmel road and and jonathan carver parkway now i was at the meeting uh last week and they said well the county is going to take care of handling that water to get the storm water because It's going to get ponded on another, on other people's land. So I think my thoughts are who's paying for this, the developer or as the county or as the city, are we picking up? It was just conveniently overlooked or hasn't been overlooked to get rid of that water. Cause that's, it's not just like sticking a culvert in cause that's that pond would be about. I'm thinking around eight feet of water in it.

Can you show a visual, Aaron, of what location we're looking at for those that are a little bit geographically challenged?

Yeah, okay. Now, right where we're at the intersection of County Road 40 and Mount Carmel, right there, that water ran over 100 inches of snowmelt. The water ran over the road.

So there's no ponding there currently?

That's a dead hole back there. There's no place for it to go. And that's when it was farmland. So now we've got a lot more hard surface in there, so there's more of that 100 inches of snow is going to hit that pond down there. And who pays to get the other night I was here, and they said, well, the county is going to take care of that. But it was pretty vague when I was asking the question. They were stuttering.

I'm going to tell you I don't know the answer either.

Pardon?

I'm going to tell you that I don't know the answer either.

But I don't figure that the developer should pick up the cost on that.

So that is correct.

Unless you guys are really generous with your money.

I have no money and I have no answers. So I have neither for you.

But this is an issue there.

Yes, we will note that.

And retention ponds will hold water until they're full.

Up to 100-year capacity. That's what I learned.

But when you get that big snow melt and it's more hard surface, it's an issue to be thought of. Yes. Because that water's got to get out of that low area somehow.

So from what I understand, the county will look at that, I'm assuming?

We're aware of the issue that he's discussing.

Okay. Who picked up the cost of that?

I don't know the answer.

If I can just elaborate, the development is responsible for meeting all watershed rules, which includes rate control and volume control, and that's what the purpose of the ponds are for on the development. So they aren't allowed to discharge more water more water to that than what the watershed will allow. So that's the base. Those are the rules for the Tarver County Water Management Organization. So those rules will have to be met, just like they have to be met for any other development within the watershed district. to your question about who's going to pick up what, I think that one thing that we want to look at as part of the broader county road project is how can we provide a reliable overflow to that pond that will get into the county storm systems.

That one where the pond is really booked, his septic system will be in jeopardy when that fills up. And one down right on county, right at an intersection there too. that system would be waterlogged too.

So we heard that comment at the neighborhood meeting. I would encourage the Planning Commission to not engage in dialogue during the public hearing. That's typically a time that you take the comments and we follow up at a staff level. But we heard that comment at the neighborhood meeting. We're working on it with the county. We can't require Summergate to complete improvements outside of their project boundary. It becomes pretty arbitrary at that point to say, Summergate, you're developing improvements Quarter mile south you have to do some work here. So it'll be included with the city and County corridor study.

Perfect. Thanks for your help Aaron Any other comments that you would like us to be some serious thought put to it? Any other comments anyone Come on up State your name and your address

I think it's appropriate. My name's Dean Stewie. I'm at 14270 Jonathan Carver Parkway. I was the person you're questioning. I'm the one right next to that pond. And Tom and I did have a conversation with the engineer. And so I take him at his word that there will be overflow addressed into storm sewers so that water gets headed in the right direction. On that same topic though, for the record, I want it noted that I guess my preference would be, if at all possible, a meeting with myself and someone like yourself and someone with the county. to literally walk and I could show you historically what's happened because I've got the low spot and all the water comes down ultimately into our area and it's washed away behind our garden and they had to bring soil back and restore the farmer's field and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, I more than share the concern and yeah, similarly with my septic and everything else. So that, I guess I'd like to see that plan before they start moving earth. I mean, to me, that's kind of goes together, a horse before the carriage or whatever the saying is, the cart before the horse, I think there should be a thoughtful, make sure that this is addressed before we get too far ahead of ourselves, if that makes sense. The other thing just, I don't have a dog in the fight, but when the comment was made private parks, are there other private parks in Carver? And is that something like if a person that's not in the neighborhood, Someone can just say you don't belong here and they get kicked out or how does that work?

So there is a private park in Hawthorne Ridge, which is a DR Horton product We haven't had that happen. So I would hope that it wouldn't happen here.

I Trust it's a hope but I mean as a practical matter as someone can can they say you don't you're not from this neighborhood You need to leave. Is that literally how that works?

It would be privately owned property by the HOA. So that could happen. I

Okay, I I guess that's private park up in Bluff Creek lost Thank you for your time, thank you I'm Michael Wagi and I live at five five one six Maplewood Road and the water is an issue on our side of the property as well and I've had snow melt and rain and basement floods and all kinds of stuff that come out of that field. I built a big berm along the side to stop it. I just want to make sure that we're not getting any extra out of that.

Thank you.

Chris Gustafson, 14340 Jonathan Carver Parkway. This is a reality of Carver County, but today County Road 40 northbound is a full speed road. JCP certainly southbound from that corner to Jordan is a full speed road. What the traffic study probably doesn't show is the dump trucks and the belly dumpers that run those roads, and they run at high speed today. So even with the roundabouts slowing them down, there's a lot of rocks flying off. There's just a lot of damage, a lot of noise, jake breaks, stuff like that. So one thing for the planning committee to probably consider here is... noise abatement slash noise ordinances slash safety concerns. As much as you try to control that speed, I can tell you that that's a very real concern out there. Even if you look at the walkway, the walking paths that start from that corner today are actually down a bit. closer to where, I guess, you put Pickleball into. Those aren't really used that much. These will get used a lot with 242 homes. So the amplification of the noise, the speed, if we're putting in half a million dollar houses, people are going to care about hearing a Jake break at 6 in the morning. So that's something worth considering.

That can get added to the county discussion.

I think we have an ordinance for it in city limits. So as we continue to annex property south, becomes part of city limits, our ordinances come into play.

Okay.

It's your turn.

Come on up.

I don't know what I'm saying. It's in your address.

Your name and your address.

Social Security number, banking information, anything you want to share. I do know that. 5995 Mount Carmel Road. I have a couple questions. With this development going on, are they using Mount Carmel Road at all to get into it to build and develop that property? They are.

Okay. That was me shaking my head that I understood what you were asking. No, they are not. They are not. Oh, okay.

Good. There's less dust raised at that point. I pay Dahlgren taxes and I pay Carver County taxes. I only get service from Dahlgren on our road, plowing service. And I have no children. I mean, I'm not against education. I think it's great. But what kind of impact is that going to make on the people that are paying dual taxes with this development? Do you have any idea? Probably not, right?

What would be the dual?

That there's more services being provided within that development as far as plowing, taking care of the roads, whatever Jonathan Parkway needs. We get taxed for all of that. Even though we don't have it. We get taxed for the plowing. We get taxed for the schools. We get taxed.

Oh, by the county.

By the county. I see. Carver County. But we also get taxed by Dahlgren. So my concern is how much more of my tax is going to go up in some ways, besides the traffic issue and losing the farmland.

I don't know the answer to that, but these folks are coming into the city, so it'll be city services. So plowing will be completed by the city within the development.

Yeah, but that's Carver County, the city services.

No. Isn't it? No.

There are two different things?

Correct.

Why do I pay for plowing the streets? I'll have to look at that.

Well, if you pay Carver County as part of your taxes, you don't pay the city of Carver. So this project boundary is now within the city of Carver. So they'll pay Carver County, Carver City, not Dahlgren Township.

Okay. Great. Good to know. I think that's it. Okay. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Okay. Goodbye.

Anyone else?

Come on back.

Also, if you want to make additional comment, I'll ask you to come to the table.

Russ Dunker, 5'9", 8'5", Montgomery Road. I push all my snow towards her. I have, I'm sandwiched between Steve Wellens and Larry Wellens. Are you over here? Yeah. Off this map? I'm to the left.

So here-ish? Where are you?

Well, if you go to put your cursor up to the other one, because I can't see that there. Okay, well.

Can you see my cursor here? Yeah. Oh, sorry.

So. So I'm over here.

Not even close, Aaron. I'm on the other map for the record. I'm using the other map.

But, you know, I'm older. So anyway, my question simply is this. I have an extreme special needs child. He's 21 and he's got like a two-year-old brain. And we walk that road every day to get him out. So I understand in phase one, nothing is going to be there. But in phase two, is there going to be a sidewalk and tar all the way so we can keep walking on the road? Because we're kind of pinned in in the back there.

So the north-south streets will connect, but there will not be a continuation west contemplated right now.

Right, but I mean, once you get to where your yellow blocked off area is, is that going to be tar? Yes. Okay, is there going to be a sidewalk? Yes. Okay, that kind of was my main concern, is just that we'd still be able to go down there without getting run over. Okay, so thank you, and if you've got extra tar,

So yes on tar, no on water. Any other further public comments?

I've got one. Come on up. You've got that site you bought, that 27 acres for the new municipal building or street maintenance people on Johnson Carbon Parkway. I was wondering how do you people plan on servicing the sewer for that?

That's not applicable to this application. A little off subject. So we will follow up with you on it.

All right. Well, I'm curious how that's going to work out. Casey, come on.

Jeff, did you want to come up?

My name is Jeff Thompson. I'm 15445 County Road 41 and I'm here from Dahlgren Township. So my comments are more concerning the Mount Carmel neighborhood. There's gonna be a lot of extra traffic put onto county road out there where we get on and off. I know I was at the county meeting. They were talking about a couple different ways that probably looks like it could be a right hand out, right hand in to try and alleviate some of the dangers there, if you will. I know that there's no way we can tell the developer what to do there, but there is, I believe they call it a lot zero or lot O on his that would make Great sense to put Mount Carmel as a cul-de-sac and put all that property out to that roundabout. It's kind of a pipe dream, I realize, but it would be safer for all the residents in the Mount Carmel area. They wouldn't have to deal with that. It would be safer for everybody to come down. It would save... the county money, not having to build that whole road out, the infrastructure, the lanes, the center meridian and all that. Unfortunately, it doesn't save the city money, and it doesn't save the developer money, so it's probably nothing but a pipe dream. I thought I'd put it out there. I know some of the people in that neighborhood have approached with that idea, and I think it makes a lot of sense.

That area you're highlighting on your cursor, that is not under contract, so it's privately owned?

No, it's included in the plot. So it's an out lot. So what Jeff is suggesting that this becomes a road for the folks that live in this section here to come this direction. So our feedback has been that it's not planned right now as part of a development street or a city street. So if the township wanted to participate in construction of that road, we could have that conversation. But we can't require Summer Gate to build a road to allow township residents to access their system. But an idea that we vetted, it was a good thought.

And, you know, unfortunately, individual governments don't look at the overall spend of the people that live there. And it would save the county money and it really wouldn't be much more expensive. But I don't know if the county would ever participate. I don't know if the township would. I can't speak for the township whether they would or not. You know, I'm just one member.

So it was your feedback, just so I understand, to close the Mount Carmel Road JCP entrance.

At that point, that would be closed. And you would route everybody through the roundabout and down this route. There would be no access to the county road from Mount Carmel. It would all go out through the roundabout. That neighborhood's going to be isolated the whole time. It's never going to be part of the, you know, the roads are going to be separate. So that whole intersection will be just for that neighborhood. And it's going to be a big construction project from the county to just service a handful of homes up there.

Thank you for your feedback.

Thank you.

I think, oh, one more.

We have Gafford, 5360 Mount Carmel Road. It seems really considerate to leave us not annexed. What's the long-term possibility of that, that we will continue to be in Dahlgren Township?

So the city has an orderly annexation agreement with the township. You would make an application to the city to be annexed in, so the city doesn't proactively go to township residents and say, it's your turn, just knowing that it's private property. So the change from township to city is pretty drastic, though, and things you would need to meet. So thinking to our comp plan, density would have to be met, so you'd have to be at three units per acre minimum.

So the long-term...

Yes, absolutely there's no time that we would come to your door and say you have to come into the city now, so The agreement that we have with the township works really well. We have a The agreement allows both groups to review but typically people don't annex into the city unless they're developing so There could be additional draw if you needed utilities or something like a strange one-off situation but no there's not a time that you are required to come in and

Continue to keep our septic tanks pumped. Correct, yes. Yes, please.

That is wise advice.

So no one's running up to the microphone anymore, so can I get a motion to close the public hearing?

A motion to close the public hearing.

I will second.

Second.

So next step is I need a motion to recommend the approval of the preliminary platts and rezoning requested by Summer Gate for the Summer Gate phase one.

I'll move.

Thanks, Jim. I will second. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Aye. And those opposed? Motion carries. Thank you, everyone, for attending. If you want to stay, you can, to learn about a lot split. Wow.

Yeah, I'm going to have Aaron go outside with you.

Yeah.

So new business, lot split. OK. Erin will present. I will. Go ahead, 50 slides.

We're getting there. OK. So the second agenda item is for 1126 Street West. It's a wonky little property, so it's a lot combination, lot split combination. At this time right now, our project is not contemplated. You previously have seen this project with a variance request to the bluff ordinance that is not contemplated as part of this application. So at the time when a project moves forward, they will need to meet all requirements of the zoning code, or they will have to pursue that variance request through the planning commission and city council. But again, a project is not contemplated with this combination and split. So things that would need to be met, the use, so it's zoned R2, so it's a residential district, so it couldn't become... an industrial user or a McDonald's, because it's a residential use on that site. If they wanted to change it, it would have to come through this group. If they were looking for a setback change, a bluff ordinance change, they would have to move through the variance process. There's not a public hearing. There was at the previous meeting. We're just looking for recommendation to the city council. I'll do the survey next, but as proposed, both lots do meet the R2 zoning district. So if you're familiar with this site, it's right at the bottom of 6th Street. Formerly was owned by a man named Rocky. And the proposed right now is what it would look like. Yes, Rocky Mahal. Thank you. If the split is favorable by the Planning Commission and City Council, creating Parcel A and Parcel B. So right now it's three parcels. So the orange line dashes through where the three are. So it's odd. This likely was plotted with the Carver City plot that happened in the 1800s. So it's a little bit of a cleanup process as well to get rid of those three properties that run straight through an existing structure. So some details. Parcel A would be It just makes no sense.

What's that? It makes no sense.

I know. Look at Downtown Carver anytime if you really want to feel wild.

Everybody's built on somebody else's.

Yeah. So the minimum lot square footage is 7,000 square feet. So you can see on the screen that parcel A and parcel B both meet that. And then any project that comes forward would need to meet the following information for the R2 zoning district. Parcel B is about 67 square feet wide. So it meets that 60 foot. Front yard setback is 25. Side yard, 7 and 1 half. Rear yard, 20. But then we also know that there is a bluff setback at play that would also need to be considered at the time of permitting. So a little bit of a lot split, a little bit of a lot combination. So you combine the three to split it to two is the application before you tonight.

And that jagged line kind of going through the middle is the bluff?

This one here?

Yeah. Yes. Okay. So it's 25 feet from their back lot?

So the buildable areas are these dash lines. Oh, sorry. I'm on my screen. So this would be the buildable envelope on this property. So that's including the tier two bluff setback of 25 feet. And then on this one, it is a little bit more jagged because it follows the natural bluff line. But there are buildable pads on both considering the bluff.

So my question is, is there city sewer and water going to both of these? Or would one be abandoned if two houses are built? Or how does that work?

So there are utilities in 6th Street. There is a stub because there was an existing residence there. A goal that we would have, R2 does allow for a duplex use. 6th Street just got redone. So if we can avoid digging it up, we will. So if it could be split somehow off the existing service, that would be our preference with a valve and shut off so they can work independently, but we wouldn't impact the freshly reconstructed 6th Street.

Okay. Anyone else have questions?

I do. So just kind of more of a curiosity, as far as the parcel IDs, are we going to reuse two of the three existing parcel IDs, or do they get a fresh?

They get reassigned. So the legals will get updated with new PIDs assigned.

And the current three PIDs will get retired then?

Correct, yep.

Okay. I'm not really sure who this question would go to, but as far as ArcGIS and then this survey from Otto Associates, Oh, never mind. Try. So I guess it only goes to you then, sorry. What's the truth data? Is the auto associates survey gospel, or is the ARC GIS?

GIS can be off by a few feet. That's always our assumption. So we typically say it can be off between two and three feet. So the legal description is the important piece. So they went back for title work to see how these properties were laid out originally, chased that title work for the legal description. So it's the legal description that corresponds with this survey.

Okay, because I was measuring out the southwest border, the two, the little small parcel there, basically the southwest border parcel B, and ArcGIS measures out to 80 feet, and then on the survey it's 70 feet, so I don't know if that's... That's kind of the genesis of the question. I assume ArcGIS is more of kind of a guess. It's not accurate.

And I wouldn't use the lines that were there because they changed them, understanding that they have to meet that seven and a half foot setback. They made the parcel A larger, so they stole some from parcel B. So this line here, don't use the previous line as a baseline for it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, so so an ArcGIS you probably used this which is the existing. Oh, sorry. I'm on my screen this which is the existing property line So from here to here it might be 80.

Well, that's more of the the southwest border so kind of runs southeast to northwest So you get that rectangular building in the bottom left corner and with the car parked out front on the north side of 6.

So the line is the tree.

Yeah, so that border there, that measures 10 foot difference between our GIS and the survey.

Where are you measuring from?

This is 80 feet on GIS.

Yeah, I would say that the ArcGIS data is based off best assumptions. This is based off pins, so you can see some of the monuments that they found.

I don't think it really changed things, more just kind of learning and understanding how this works. And then the last question has to do with, I don't know the address, but you got the driveway there in the northwest corner, or the straight north corner there. Is there any easement history or variances or any kind of stuff? Because it looks like we're overlapping. So if there's like some previous agreements with the old parcel IDs, Do we have to go through another process to update those with the new parcel IDs, or is it carryover, or is there anything to carry over?

Yeah, there's not an existing easement that I'm aware of. I would say it maybe was a handshake, wink, wink, but I know the properties have both changed hands, so I would say it's an existing condition right now.

Okay, so I guess the follow-on question, do we need to do any... discussions with the owners so that's two parcels, you know, they the driveway owner and these parcels and get the Encroachment issue ironed out and paper.

We wouldn't need to facilitate that process. There would be a private property encroachment So the city wouldn't have a role.

Okay Does parcel B have a driveway entrance?

No, not today That was all my questions

Anyone else? The existing structure that's there, that's all on parcel A?

Yes. So it's split between the two right now. But yes, that's parcel A.

How do you pay taxes on that?

All three.

Oh, OK. Any other questions?

Erin, this is the same one where the lady came in and she was trying to build the big apartment or whatever on. And so she is putting three into two and then if still wants to build something, still going to go into the same thing before where it's got to meet all of these different.

Correct. She's looking for something outside of what the zoning code allows. There'll be additional review by the planning commission and city council. But if she meets all requirements, it would just be a building permit process.

Yeah.

Got it.

Does this help her get there?

Yes, it makes, so right now these lots aren't buildable because of the property line that goes directly through them.

So this will help her be able to develop those lots.

Correct.

Without asking for the bluff ordinance.

Yeah, okay. So could we get a motion to recommend the approval of the lot combination and then the lot split at 1126th Street West? A motion to approve.

Second.

Any further discussion? All in favor? Aye. And those opposed? Motion carries. Communications, Mayor Johnson.

Good evening, everybody.

Please state your name and your address and your shoe size.

Well, eight and a half, but if it's pink and cute, I can fit into anything. It's a little pink, that line from Stealing Polias. My name is Courtney Johnson. Thank you guys for coming here. Scott, it's great to see you up here. Since you haven't experienced this before, I just try to attend one meeting a year, and I pick it based on my availability and what works. It wasn't that there was necessarily something on the agenda tonight, but it was a good agenda, in my opinion. Just wanted to share a few updates, because I know you guys are always wondering and have questions of me when I come here. Really excited that the levee project that has been working on since Jim Weigand was a child is finally coming to fruition. We are going to be having shovels in the ground this fall, very likely. There are a few more permitting processes that we're going through, and as long as those stay on track, we will be working on it. This is real. This is really going to happen. We have raised a total, or I found funding partners for $13 million out of what's going to be a rounding up to $16 million project. I think it might be like $15.5. But trying to work through that. We're still... working our way through the process for the federal earmarks with Senator Klobuchar and Senator Smith. We've gotten a lot of money from the feds previously, including, I think it was like $4 million late last year. Unfortunately, we got skunked from the state this year, so we didn't receive any money from the bonding bill. But we're- Well. I'm surprised you want to come back in here. So super excited about that. The public services building, we are going to be seeing floor plans for that or kind of what the plans look like roughly at our next meeting, I think. For public services? We'll see the plans at our next, okay. Yeah, so at your next meeting. Oh, yeah, yup, I'm losing track of my months. So excited to see that. That's gonna be held at our meeting and not a work session so that the public is welcome to come and opine. You might wanna invite that guy. and it's going to be our first time seeing it too, so we will have plenty of questions. The summer road construction is part of our pavement management plan. We're going to be working on Mount Hope Road, including putting in a really, really well-needed sidewalk between Lyons Park and to downtown so that Cindy can walk at night more safely. And for everybody else who's hiked up that hill and have tried to play balance beam on what's an 18, probably an 18-inch wide super wonky curb. We had our first resident advisory group last week, and Sherry attended. You guys are all welcome to attend that. Would love to see your faces there. Would also love it if you would bring a neighbor or two or four with you. We had a decent turnout. I think we had about... ten nine or ten people there and it was great we're TBD on the next meeting and when that'll take place but we were able to show them concepts and we talked about public services we talked about kind of park philosophy I guess if you will of what should we do first here are some play spaces that we could use for the replacement of the playgrounds a community park and just kind of talking through that so high level overview but just kind of informing residents and getting them engaged and Erin had this nifty little. Yes, a Menci thing where you could answer a question on your phone and then would zip it to her and then broadcast it up on the screen. So really cool just to get that kind of good feedback. There's treats at that meeting, too. There were. Oh, OK. I might attend then. Great treats. Let's see. And the only other thing that I have is the Carver Community Market started two weeks ago. So that is Tuesday afternoons from 3 until 6 o'clock. So I'd love to see you guys there. Do you have any questions for me?

Is that sidewalk on Mount Hope, do they have to move, I presume, that retaining wall then?

They don't. So we had a couple of options. The most expensive one would have included moving it back into keeping it in the right-of-way, but the right-of-way on that property, the residential property, the first one where you're coming down the hill, is really wonky. So the right-of-way kind of starts at their front porch. So in addition to it being like two times the price, we decided to go for the more middle of the road, no pun intended, option. So the retaining wall stays, it's a sidewalk. I think that the curbs on the east side of the road might get pushed back a little. Am I making that up?

We're moving it two feet.

Okay. So yeah, so that'll move, the road will stay in its same spot but move over just a little bit.

Okay.

How wide is sidewalk gonna be then? Six feet.

Six feet, okay. That sidewalk will obviously be cleared by the city then in the winter, I would assume. Do we know, just because I can ask here, the sidewalk that goes down through Lyons Park that's really steep and like that, we noticed in the winter that doesn't get cleared. Is that just a random area where we don't think people walk it? I don't know.

I can get back to you, unless one of you guys know. Okay.

I assume that depending what vehicle we use is probably a little difficult to do.

Well, and we also, like the Hawthorne Ridge trails, we don't touch during the winter as well. I wonder if there wasn't kind of a decision made of if it's going to be slippery, even if there isn't any snow on it, do we really want to open it up? But I'll check and I'll get back to you on that.

Yeah. We walked it many times in the winter until it got covered. And then she's like, why isn't, you're on the city, whatever, you should go. And I'm like, I'm not in charge of that. I'll bring a shovel, honey. But we have a new sidewalk going in. Pretty excited to say I got a sidewalk added. Don't tell her it wasn't me.

No, tell her that.

We will.

Tell her. Just make sure she doesn't watch this meeting. You know, I brought your concerns to the city.

I promise you she won't be watching it. Book him. Cool. Thank you.

What is the timing for the street projects?

Good question. We just got an email that it's going to start, like, August 3rd. and then they have to be completed by?

On the Friday, it's October 13th, I believe, is the Friday in October that we have for the completion date.

Is that a really long time period?

No.

Oh, that's not? It's like eight weeks.

It's actually a pretty aggressive construction window. And that mid-October is kind of our standard completion date that we require in the contracts.

Who's doing it?

This year, Valley Paving out of Shakopee got the project.

Would you like to come up and state your name and your address? Cindy's here.

Do you guys know this? This is Cindy Monroe on Road Drive.

All the way to our northerly limits, which is at Spring Creek Drive. I'm not kidding.

Is that happy shocked or sad shocked or mad shocked?

Okay. One quick question on the mayor. The entrance in the Lions Park, is that going to be widened at all? I don't know if you've – I'm a frequent compost dumper there now. Oh. and it's really narrow to try to get in and out of there if there's another car coming.

That's actually a good question, Scott. It is not planned to be widened right now, but I could look at that. We could still make that adjustment if there's a turning movement problem there. I just was not aware of that. We'll just check it out.

I didn't realize it was narrow until I met somebody on that. Sure.

Or if you have a lot of compost in a trailer?

No, I don't.

It's more like food waste compost and not like all of the bags for...

The excitement level is way down now. Organic waste.

We see your leaves in there, we'll know.

I label them all. For those of us that their streets are going to be torn up, how many days of you think the street will be non-usable. We have some really old people that live on my street.

So you're in the Bluffs area, correct? Yeah. Do you know if you're in the Mill and Overlay or the Reclaim part of the project?

I'm pretty sure we're in the Reclaim.

Okay. With the reclaim project, the intent is always at the end of each working day that you'll have access to your driveway again. During the middle of the day, if they're working obviously in front of your driveway, there's gonna be times when you're not gonna be able to get out. So that would be, you'll kind of have to play it by ear of, okay, we know they're getting closer now. So, you know, tomorrow I might have some impact. So you're going to have to kind of plan ahead for some stuff. But we don't have, we're not doing like curb replacement on the whole street where you're going to be out of your driveway for seven days type of a thing. It's really going to be those kind of inconvenient random days where you're you're gonna have to be a little more coordinated on when you go and leave and come back. There's always the option you park on a side street and you walk, but I get your point about the elderly and such that might have a difficult time getting getting at a distance that far.

And Aaron, we have staff that will say like, hey, Jim, tomorrow's the day. Get your cars out tonight. We're going to be starting at 7 a.m. and you won't have access to your driveway until 4, 4.30, right?

Correct, yep. So we'll have a full-time person that will be able to help communicate with residents. We'll let you know when kind of big project milestones are going to be coming. So, okay, we're going to be paving in three days, so we'll give you warning about that.

So wash your car.

Yeah. So the intent is to keep people informed best we can, understanding that at the end of the day, we still are grinding up a whole street and we need to put it back. So it's going to be a little bit inconvenient for a few random days.

You know, it's too bad that the city doesn't change garbage pickups. So we didn't have... Half a dozen garbage trucks.

I don't think any council ever took care of that halfway, Jim.

No.

The next meeting is?

That's not true. They did change. They made two more garbage pickups. Back in the day, there was one.

We give out sanitation licenses, as you know, and we don't specify what day they come to pick up. I think it's only two days in the city of Carver, and I think we've got three licenses.

Mm-hmm.

But if we divided the city into three districts and had one company for each of those districts.

Then you don't have the choice. We can fight about this later.

And all the Amazon and FedEx and UPS I get are still going to come.

Yeah, but the garbage trucks are the biggest, the heaviest ones.

Any other communications? Are you done? I'm done, yeah. Thanks, Courtney. Thank you, guys.

Any other communications from anyone? I'll just say the next agendas are probably heavy-ish. So a couple things coming up. We're doing a recap of the Planning Commission City Council workshop that happened on June 8th to the City Council, so I'll do it here at the next meeting. The school district is anticipating a concept plan for their transportation facility. Both the Enclave and Summerfield want final plat tomorrow, so they'll be coming in pretty fast and furious. As part of the workshop, we talked about some zoning code work and the review of the landing. anticipate that at least the July, August, September meetings are a go unless you hear differently.

Is the school district transportation, is that building a referendum?

It's already been done. Yeah.

What is? Okay.

Yeah. The city, they came to the city to tell us they were ready to build when the general referendum passed last November.

The increase in the general referendum. It's not through that. But it's not through that. But that's the timing of when it happened, that there was no specific referendum for this building.

Does that property have to be annexed in then?

It already is. That one came in. Yep.

Exciting. I need to eat dinner before I come to these meetings.

That's probably true.

If I had anything else.

Can we get a motion?

August?

Can we get a motion to adjourn?

Motion to adjourn.

I will second. Meeting is adjourned. Thank you, everyone.