City Council - workshop

Hello. We played on Saturday. My nephew was like, what game should we play? I don't care what we play, but I'm not keeping track of anything. So let me know what we need to do and who I need to pay. These guys know every game and they're keeping like three.

Have you ever played pool video?

Definitely. Fifteen minutes from Erica's dad's and it's right.

I highly recommend it's only 80 bucks.

I did the golf lesson after law school because I figured Saturday.

During the day, it's like, and it wasn't at my 1st firm. It was at my 2nd firm. It had not happened.

It would have been at every year that I was there. So it. My real skill is that I was the beer cart girl at Chaska town for two summers, so I can drive a golf course backwards.

I couldn't tell you what the case looks like going in the right direction, but I can tell you what they look like going in the wrong direction. Are they following you to your path? No. Okay. I have two boys and one's following my husband's path and one's following my side of the family. I had to redo my password.

Did anybody watch the World Cup this weekend?

Yeah, the last half of it.

Did you watch the France game or the Spain game?

The Spain game.

So the boring one. 0-0 at the end of regulation. Yeah, the other one had a lot more goals.

All right, it is 5.30. I will call this work session to order on July 20th. Up first, we have got golf cart use. Look at that, more sports golf. Dave.

All right, do you have the slide? I'm putting it up right there. Okay.

I can go ahead and start with this and then I'm going to lean on Dave for anything technical or legal. So I'm sorry, Brenda.

I did not give me your name. I'm very sorry. That's okay.

So a little background about where the city is at as far as go cart use. and UTV use. So back in 2020, the City Council conducted several work session discussions regarding the licensing and operation of utility task vehicles. If you remember back those days when I viewed the videos, it was deep into COVID, so lots of masks and things like that and Zoom meetings. But following those discussions, the council approved requirements and established a permitting process for UTV use. In June of this year, the City Council received a request from a community member to consider allowing golf carts for operation within the city. It prompted a discussion on whether a similar licensing and permitting framework should be developed for golf carts. Some definitions. There are three different types of motorized vehicles. An ATV is a motorized vehicle. I won't read through all of it, anywhere from three to six tires on it. The dry weight is 2,000 pounds or less, and it's not defined as a UTV, and the width of it is 65 inches or less. A UTV has four wheels. It has rollover protection. It's propelled by an internal combustion engine with a piston displacement capacity of 1,200 cubic centimeters or less. I had to read that one straight through. And it weighs less than 1,800. It has a weight of at least 1,800, but less than 2,600 pounds. And then a golf cart is defined as having four wheels and four low-pressure tires, engine displacement not exceeding 800 cubic centimeters, and a dry weight not exceeding 800 pounds. Here we have some examples. There's different makes and models, et cetera, but here are some different examples of an ATV versus the UTV with the rollover protection and a golf cart.

I can jump in here, Mayor and Council. So there is a state statute that talks about special vehicles, specifically the ones that we're talking about, ATVs, UTVs, motorized golf carts. And it does authorize city councils to adopt an ordinance that would allow their operation in the city on roadways that are either designated by the council, if not all of the roads under your jurisdiction, But it can really only be those streets, the streets that we have as city streets. There's no ability for these vehicles to operate on county highways or state highways. But any authorization for using those vehicles has to be done by a permit. And so that's what the city does right now with UTVs. We allow UTVs to operate on city streets through a permit. There's a few things that have Permitting ordinance must include, if you do it, and it must designate which roadways the vehicles are allowed on. It has to prescribe the application form and what people would have to submit in order to be able to get permission to use the vehicle on city streets. And it has to require evidence of insurance and then any other desirable conditions of operation that the city council may have. So as I mentioned before, and I think Brenda also alluded to this, UTVs currently can operate in the city. The other types of vehicles that we're talking about, we don't allow that. I was not here back in 2020 when the initial conversation was held. It's my understanding there's some pretty fruitful and I think engaging discussion. Ultimately, the policy decision was made to do the UTVs and not to allow the other types of vehicles. And I, um, I think there's some record of those meetings and videos of those meetings and Brenda, I think you actually did sort of a deep dive into some of that. So I don't know if you have any, anything to share about maybe how the council landed on that decision, but I don't know how relevant it is at this point in time, because we're talking about, you know, what the council today might want to do.

So I can take this one. CARVER'S REQUIREMENTS FOR UTV, INSURANCES REQUIRED BY THE MOTORCYCLE INSURANCE PROVISIONS OF, I THINK I HAVE A TABLE IN THERE, I SHOULD SAY MINNESOTA SECTION 65B.48, SUBDIVISION 5. SO IT OUTLIES THE $30,000, $60,000 PROTECTION FOR BODILY INJURY AND $10,000 FOR PROPERTY DAMAGE. We charge an $80 permit fee for three years, and we provide them with a sticker evidencing that they have applied and received a permit through the city. State local law also provides certain requirements for UTVs, specifically related to safety features and hours of operation. They cannot be operated in inclement weather, visibility is impaired, or any other times when there is insufficient visibility. And then to date, we've issued approximately 65 UTVs, so 45 registrations and 19 renewals.

And I would say too, that paragraph that talks about the operational requirements about inclement weather and other things, that would apply to golf carts at the city council. It's a state. requirements in the statute. So, um, if the council were to have any interest in also allowing golf carts as requested, that would apply as well. In addition to any other requirements that you might want to impose.

Is that, um, the state laws, the law stuff, is that applied to motorcycles too? Or is that a separate thing from talking about the provisions above for the

Not that I know of. That provision is in the special vehicle statute, which has nothing to do with motorcycles. I think the only real motorcycle crossover here is when they talk about these vehicles in the statute, they make reference to insurance that's required, and they reference the insurance that everyone is required to get if they ride a motorcycle. Thanks.

Sure. Good question.

So Jen from our admin services team did some great research in anticipation of questions that you may have so I'll walk through what her research found and then as we work through it As we move along, if you have additional comments or questions, we can do some further research. But we did a dive into our peer cities, whether or not they allow golf carts, and then also in the interest of what our neighboring cities are doing as well, we did whether or not they allowed golf cart permits. So as you can see, most cities do allow them. For our peer cities, Waconia is the only one that does not. And then there are two for neighboring cities, uh, Chanhassen and Watertown do not permit them.

And it's, I think it's also worth noting. We didn't go this far into the research, but just because they allow them doesn't mean they allow them on every city street. A lot of cities are specific about, you know, in this area or only on roadways that don't exceed, you know, 30 or 35 miles per hour, um, for example. So. The cities vary quite a bit in terms of where they allow them and under what conditions they might allow them. But I think this is just a yes, they do allow them or no, they don't. That was the intent of this research.

And Chaska, I think they're only allowed in a couple specific neighborhoods. I was talking to Mayor Hubbard about this the other day.

Uh, so some of the highlights are the commonalities, um, that for the licensing, um, proof of insurance, and then there's an age restriction or age requirement, I should say 16 plus or 18 plus years of age. Um, all of them need a slow moving vehicle emblem and then eight of the 11 cities required a rear view mirror. Other common safety requirements are headlight and tail lights, brake lights. turn signals, seat belts, horn, and helmet. And here's what the chart looks like. The green is required, orange is conditional requirement, and purple is not required or not identified when we were doing our research. So as you can see, Delano is probably the most restrictive on what they REQUIRE HAS THE STRONGEST REQUIREMENTS, BUT IT CAN VARY FROM CITY TO CITY. And really, we're up to the questions part, so I'll leave this up if that's helpful to you. But you and I are here to answer any questions you have or if there's additional information you'd like us to check into.

Yeah, and again, there's a lot more specificity and detail that I think it wasn't worth going into for the purposes of this initial discussion. But one, like for example, headlights, taillights, brake lights, Those kinds of things. Many cities only require those if you're going to operate after dark, right? Because that's what, again, what the statute says. You can't operate between sunset and sunrise. So in hours that are where you have less light, obviously, unless you have those lights and brake lights and those kinds of things. So just because maybe there's a box on there that says a city requires headlights or brake lights, that's likely because that city also allows them to be operated after dark. Some cities don't allow operation after dark at all.

Do we?

That's a good question. I had it up here. Let me just see.

Paper countdown from Steamboat Days. It's going to be after dark.

It depends on when you come home.

It gets dark much earlier, remember? It does, yep. We say a UTV may be operated only during hours that are not between sunset and sunrise if they have that equipment, headlights, taillights, brake lights, and lighted turn signals.

So I have some opinions on this.

Go ahead.

All right, so today I think a golf cart is at least as safe a vehicle on a city street as a UTV. They're built to go on paved roads. They're built to not tear up golf courses. That's because their transmissions and differentials are designed for that. A UTV, most of them don't have a turf mode, so that means both wheels are locked. When they go around a turn, they're often hopping a little bit. If you take a turn fast, they have a higher propensity to roll over. That's not all of them, but some of them are built that way. Golf carts are all built for for paved and turf use. When we think about things like seat belts and stuff like that, I don't know that it's our job to protect a driver from themselves. It's our job to protect other drivers. A Yamaha mule doesn't have seat belts. It would meet our UTV standard. It's an open cab. They would fall out just the same as if they were in a golf cart. So from a design height, all of those standards, they're you can have less safe UTVs. Golf carts are quieter. I think the requirement should be protect Other drivers, I think they should have headlights, taillights, brake lights. I don't think turn signals are necessary. That's a little onerous. I don't know any manufacturer that makes those standard. You'd have to retrofit your machine in some way. But I think most users would be able to fit with a headlight, taillight, brake light requirement. But I think that, this was before me, I think what derailed golf carts was a terrible accident with the former mayor. And that was a terrible accident that happened in a golf cart. Could have happened in a UTV. So just from looking at it as a machine, I'm comfortable adding a golf cart as an equivalent to a UTV.

I'm going to agree with you, Eric. I mean, I was for the UTV ordinance when it came through the last time. So I agree with you that they should be. I don't know all the parameters. I'm not a golf cart expert, but I've written in the UTV many more times than I've ever written in a golf cart, which says a lot about my golf game. There isn't one. Warrior Walker. Yeah. No, just there is one. But you brought up some points, too, where they are quieter. I drive a UTV around for Steamboat Days all weekend long, and I am tired of hearing that thing by the time I'm done. So, you know, golf carts are quieter. I don't know about all the drive things. That's a little beyond my, you know, when the rear, the wheels, and when they're engaging. But I knew that the Greg Osterdyke, Evelyn Grimm accident was going to come up tonight. So that's an accident that happened one time 15 years ago. Accidents are terrible. Accidents happen all the time. I don't think that I want to base not having it for one accident that happened over a decade ago. I do think that we should allow them in town. I think they should be at the 30... I mean, I don't think we have any 35-mile-an-hour zones here, but 30-mile-an-hour zones or less, I think that that is acceptable. If they are going to operate at night, they should have those headlights and brake lights, obviously. If not, they shouldn't be allowed on the road. I'm trying to think. I just, and I know you brought up Chaska, said that there's a few different areas that they allow it. To me, that sounds a little bit like a little segregation going on. Like, you can have it here and our bike will come down.

Gotcha. All right. Which is common, not to say it's right or wrong, but a lot of the cities that have golf courses that have members that are close by, they accommodate those neighbors by saying you can ride your golf cart from your garage through your neighborhood to get to your golf course, whether that's good, bad, anywhere in between.

I figured with Victoria there too, they had the golf course there. We don't have a golf course. So I mean, but for me, if it's going to be, I'd rather have it be the entire town of Carver, city of Carver, with the restriction of the lower mile an hour zones. I think that's a nice, I think that's good for safety. When it comes to the turn signals, I, again, if you were requiring people to have these aftermarket things, I don't know that it's necessary. You can hand signal on your bike, right? So you can hand signal on your motorcycle and that's legal. So I think we can probably hand signal on our golf cart too. So those are some of the reasons that I'm for it. I don't see a lot of negatives to it. Again, they're not going to be whizzing down the highway. And if they are, they should probably get a ticket, right? Because that shouldn't be allowed. But otherwise, I don't. Noise-wise, again, safety-wise, what Eric said too, I mean, people ride motorcycles, right? They're taking... Every time you drive a car, you're taking your life into your own hands, right? So I think that there's going to be personal responsibility, and if you choose to do it, you choose to know what you're getting into, and we do that every single day when we drive something, no matter what it is. Again, I think that the accident many years ago was a terrible, terrible thing, but I don't want to base going forward on one single accident. Nobody would be driving cars anymore either.

All right. I support I mean, golf carts. Thank you, Eric, for explaining more than I would have thought of. But also, though, importantly, though, it points out the three things that for me would be important is the headlights, taillights, and brake lights. And then that the golf carts are equipped with them. And that if somebody's using them in between sunset and sunrise, that they turn them on. Those are the things I would want to see in an ordinance. I like the structure we have for the permit lasting three years. I don't know enough on... $80 seems fair, but I realize we probably need to factor that more into how much it costs us to process. And I would think it would be the same. I think that's went up since we actually did. I think we've included some inflation in that since it first came out. I think there's a lot of things we could mirror from the work that we did previously.

Yeah. I agree with everything that's been said. I don't see any problems with expanding it. I like having it limited to our 30 or less streets. There isn't any problems crossing from one side of this town to the other.

No, there's a provision that says you can go through the intersection. If they're permitted, may cross any street or highway intersecting designated roadways.

Okay, so we're not going to cut off half the city because our entire city is on it. My other thing would be, do you think the city is ready for being able to really push that you can't do this on the trails? Because I anticipate that that might be similar with e-motos and things like that, that people might sneak into trail usage as opposed to just street usage.

You could be very specific about that in the ordinance. Similar to UTVs can't use the trails or sidewalks, etc.

So it would be prepared so that we would be prepared. The ordinance would be written in such a way that that portion of it could be easily enforced by the sheriff's firm.

You would just as a... comment, it's probably not top of mind for any of us, but the new summer field development couldn't access the rest of the community without using Jonathan Carver Parkway, so nothing we need to figure out today. But that is probably an issue that we'd have to think about.

Well, I think if we were to do a 30 mile an hour limit, the bluffs could also not get anywhere other than the bluffs, right?

West. So can we rate the shortest route, like the shortest route within the city limits? I mean, they used to do that for snowmobiles and stuff. Like you can take them, but you have to use the most direct route to get to the 39 hour zone or whatever it is.

It's a little.

No, so why is it an issue to be because if we said it's allowed on 30 mile an hour streets, then they couldn't take main street.

You can get from there's no route for you to get from the bluffs out of the bluffs on a golf cart. If we say it has to be a 30 mile an hour. Because main streets 40 miles an hour as it passes the bluffs.

Oh, okay, that's not how I was thinking about it. You can't exceed 30 miles an hour in your vehicle.

No, what we were saying is that you are only allowed to drive on roads that are 30 miles per hour or less. Right.

Or less.

And so it doesn't have to be.

Well, that's me not understanding the curtain ordinance. Yeah. Right, it doesn't have to be.

So, just something to think about, because when I saw, like, your gears turning, I thought you were thinking about the bluffs, but also Summergate. And, oh yeah, that's probably it. All the Northwestern developments can zip over on Monroe Drive and cut through Spring Creek Drive. So I... I really liked what you said about making this safe for everybody else. I think it would defeat the purpose if we demanded everything that doesn't come standard on a golf cart. So if we say you need a seatbelt and a helmet and a horn that probably doesn't come in really any golf cart, I think that that's essentially saying golf carts aren't allowed. So I do, however... Proof of insurance, 16 plus, slow moving emblem. I want to see headlights, taillights. I would love to see turn signals. That's not like that's an unrealistic expectation, but I'm just trying to think of like, if I'm driving, how I'm going to know where that's going. And I also, and I... Just identified it as an issue, but I would like to see them only on 30 mile an hour streets because with it being a slower moving vehicle, they definitely don't belong on JCP. And the same, the speed limit on main street West is also the same as on JCP. And I don't love the idea of. Coming up hot on a golf cart. Main Street. What's this? 40. JCP is 15.

We can't include JCP regardless. I realize that. I'm saying she just. Okay.

So I was wrong. Yeah.

So we're talking about the people. Either way. Yeah. 30 miles. Can we exempt Main Street then? I mean. We can't allow that. I don't know. I don't see why we can do anything we want.

I'm thinking about like what for safety reasons, if I would be okay, including Main Street.

I would be okay with including Main Street. I feel like I would be okay with including Main Street because I feel like there's enough room on the shoulder. There is not. For a golf cart, there's not a trail there.

It's a drop-off. Yeah. But there's, I mean, technically you have a sidewalk next to this. That's not really the side of the road either. So, I mean, you can't just, you're not going to whip up on the curb. I would be happy to do, to start off, things can always change later, to start off with the 30-mile-an-hour zone with the exception of Main Street, that people can still come down Main Street.

Here's an idea.

I think there's enough site for me because that road is so straight. I mean, you have some little curves, but that road is straight enough.

What if we allowed them to go on the trail adjacent to JCP by Community Park? No. I don't like that either. Okay.

But the council will be open to just letting staff take a first crack at it, and then you can kind of.

Yeah, you don't have to try. Okay. But you understand, but yeah. Our concerns have been made. But I think we do have to come to something about being strict, though. So I'm good with that. Because we don't want to isolate. Good, good. having Main Street be included I'd like to see what staff comes up with I'd like to see what staff comes up with well we're the ones who are telling staff what they should be coming up with so I think that's a big sticking point I'm thinking through that so here's the thing I didn't shame on me I thought the 40 mile an hour limit 30 miles limit on the speed of the vehicle not the road because you're right my neighborhood is

precluded then from being able to exit the neighborhood and come to Steamboat Days, which people do. So I have to think about that. You know, the Main Street and Carver, you know, for encouraging the use of these vehicles to access downtown in the business, you know, load your kids up in these machines and get them down to the ice cream store. kind of want to find a carve out for that I know that might not be I want to hear what city staff has to say about it but I'm open to that for that reason I'm trying to encourage people to to to bring your families down on these machines if we think it's going to be a safety risk and not tenable tell me yeah so we

Uh, ask the city attorney to connect some of these, like, even if you like, even though it's in city limits, so like Jonathan covered Parkway is subject to Coney and state law. So even overlooked drive, like there's not a way for them to get to main street on Jonathan carbon Parkway. And Dave correct me if I'm wrong, but even if the city said it's okay, it doesn't necessarily mean the Coney and the state have to agree. It's okay. And so you're somewhat prohibited by that.

It's only roads under our jurisdiction that we have the right to allow this on. So right now, I mean the UTV section says you can operate it on streets and roadways within the city. That wouldn't include county highways. I mean that's the county's road jurisdiction. They're the road jurisdiction.

Yeah, I agree with Christy. Let's set Summerfield aside right now and even overlook for the time being and focus on

connected by JCP sure areas of town and then there you know we'll want to run our draft on our internal process by the sheriff's office if there's things you see or have experienced in other communities and because there's going to be whether it's JCP or even frankly the north side of Spring Creek Drive is in the city of Chaska so if you had somebody in Meadows, you know, going westbound on Spring Creek Drive, the Chaska PD could pull them over for a golf cart that's not allowed in their city limits. So some of those nuances we're going to have to work through and kind of figure out how we're going to manage that. But I think we've got...

I won't be smirking because I have never seen a Chaska cop on the road.

They're adding like... 80 to 100 homes there so there's going to be activity there and so um but I think we have the nuts and bolts so if you want an ordinance that would allow it and the details of it we'll present some options and the council can debate those policy initiatives

correct and correct me if i'm wrong but and again this shouldn't doesn't necessarily need to dictate how you make your policy decisions but i think the request was made by somebody who was interested in getting from down down main street right to some parks or something i can't remember oh it was okay yeah okay yeah not that we're writing an ordinance specifically for sure no no but a lot of times that's a consideration yeah okay

Up next, we've got Bond Rating Strategy and Strategic Plan Initiative. Shadi.

All right, thank you.

I don't think that was as exciting as the golf course. Please, don't sell your short.

All day.

My day's been exciting, too.

I'm sorry to hear that.

All right, well, it's already been three years since we have finalized the strategic action plan. And I'm not sure if you remember, but one of the action plan was to improve the bond rating from AA to AA plus by 2025. We did issue debt in 2024 and we were able to hold our bond rating stable and we haven't issued any debt since. And so therefore we didn't reach that strategic plan goal by 2025. It's just things didn't line up in the way we wanted them to. But we are making proactive efforts to enhance our bond rating for the next big bond year, which would be next year. So there's many things that we're starting to do in order to try to increase that bond rating. And we learned about some of those on our last bond rating call as well as through Northland Securities who's been helping us along the way. So what does a bond rating agency look for when you're on those calls? they look for both qualitative and quantitative data to gauge municipalities likelihood of defaulting on its debt so not only it's it's not only the numbers but it's like what is the city doing as a whole um you know what what what's happening in the city how is it growing and how does it compare to other cities of that same size so um so i have kind of six different things um that i'll talk about and how we're going to be doing this in different areas of emphasis. So the first one is to strengthen the financial management practices. So meet the stated reserve balances. So we talk a lot about that general fund balance reserve and how during our long-term financial planning, we show that general fund balance and how we need to have 40%. A couple years ago, we weren't hitting that number, and we have been hitting that number. So that's what that talks about. And then also in the enterprise funds, the utility funds, there's also... goals that we need to hit there too. We talk about six months of operating expenses and then your bond payments for the following years and different things like that. And then we want to adopt and update the long-term financial plan. We've been doing that since I've been here and before that. And then timely and transparent reporting. So that I'm talking about the audit and monthly finance reports. So I do the monthly finance reports once a month. And so if there's ever any sort of reports in there that you want to see different or more information, I'm completely open to that. But they do look to make sure that we're doing that. The rating agencies go in and they look to see what I'm showing council and the public. Control expenditures and liabilities. So managing operating costs and conservative revenue and expenditures in alignment with the long-term financial plan. So are we being conservative with what we're budgeting and are we meeting those goals? And then is it lining up with what we're saying that we're going to do? And then implement efficiency measures. So maintenance contracts, this is something that we've done the last couple of years too. So to try to prevent things from breaking down, we're implementing more maintenance contracts, like on generators and having somebody come out and inspect roofs so that we're not repairing and having these large bills. And then street maintenance, we've really taken a really strong approach on street maintenance since in the last, what, five or six years because street maintenance is easier to do in the beginning than to do a whole reclamation. That's going to cost a lot more money. And then technology, just technology to me equals efficiency. I just know that some of the programs that we've implemented in the last five years have created so much efficiency in daily work. Um, and then just in the data that we get from that technology as well. Um, review and strengthen policies. This is something I've really been able to focus on a lot this summer. And it's, um, it's amazing what, how quickly your policies can age and you can outgrow them as a city. So, um, some of the important policies on the finance side is our debt management, investment, um, internal control. cybersecurity and business subsidy. The reason cybersecurity is in red is because it's very important and I'm working on it right now. So it's not done. So I just wanted to point that one out. And then we want to review the policies annually and update them if needed. Like I said, they get outdated very quickly. I mean, it could be a statute or JUST SOMETHING THAT WE CHANGE HERE INTERNALLY, AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE MEMORIALIZE THAT IN OUR POLICY. AND THEN NOT ONLY THAT, BUT CONFIRM THAT THE STAFF IS FOLLOWING POLICIES. A POLICY IS ONLY AS GOOD AS IF WE'RE FOLLOWING IT. WE CAN WRITE THEM ALL DAY LONG, BUT IF WE'RE NOT FOLLOWING THEM, WHAT GOOD ARE THEY? AND IF THE STAFF DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THEM. AND THEN CONSISTENT LEADERSHIP AND CLEAR DECISION MAKING. So what we're doing, the work that you do here every other week is showing that you're planning ahead for the city. So it's strong council discussion and work sessions. And so they'll see the topics that you're talking about. How are you planning? What kind of discussions are you having for the city, for the growth, for planning? So that shows that you're making these decisions together as a group. And then adopting rates that are consistent with the long-term financial plan. So not only tax rates, but also utility rates. So those are very important. And we'll be bringing forward proposed rates and then going back if we need to and adjusting those based on feedback from the council. And then the last two are strong capital improvement plan. And so on this plan, and these are the plans that we came and presented separately to you. So we had the streets and the infrastructure and facilities and different things. So we need it to show the funding, the priority and the timing. Otherwise, if you just say, here's our plan for the next 10 years and what we think it's going to cost. That doesn't really mean anything unless we're telling you why we need it, when we need it, and how bad we need it and how much it's going to cost. And then not only that, but we need to update it because as you've seen in the past few years, things change and our plans change very quickly. Sometimes we'll finalize the plan and then all of a sudden somebody will come in, maybe a business will come in, and then all of a sudden we have an idea of something that we want to do differently or we push something off because we don't need it. But we need to be updating that because then it would change our rates potentially in the future. And that's something that the rating agencies like to see too, that we are taking those things into consideration. And so that capital improvement plan needs to be shown as the input to that long-term financial plan. And then promote economic growth so invest in infrastructure So the CIP shows investment in the community. This is all that fun underground stuff that we don't think is fun or pretty but we need to do it and to show that we're investing. I know what Courtney calls it, but I know when she says that. You can say it. Do you want me to say it? Yeah. It's not sexy investment. Yes. Yes. I love when she says that. But we need to do it to show that we're investing in our community and we're growing. And then development, retention of commercial and industrial businesses to diversify tax base. We can't just have homes. We want commercial and industrial businesses to come in. We want to support them, help them. What do you need? What do you need from us? Just show that we are welcoming communities. for all different types of businesses to come in and develop. And then encourage diverse industry land use planning and incentives. So that's the business subsidy policy. And then just showing that we're always planning for different types of um so we're really hoping that with all of these different strategic priorities um we will increase our bond rating if not that just hold steady for 2027 we are really going to be trying hard so if you have any questions i'm happy to answer them i'm really happy to see the focus on the double a plus we've been talking about this for years and we're going to have

big bonds coming up I think it'll really matter and you know it's a little bit of a point of pride too just to the work that city staff does around all of this and I've seen you know I've been around just for one term I've seen a huge change and shift in in As you said, the long-term planning strategy around this, you know, that's one of those things we can hang our hat on that we're a AA city but a AA plus. I think we'll get there. If there's something that... council needs to do that we aren't doing. I also want to know that if there's some direction or something that pushes us over the edge, and maybe that's your cybersecurity effort, right? Maybe we need to take these extra steps to make sure that we're not a target or we don't find ourselves under threat, somebody holding us hostage. You tell us what that need is, if that gets us closer as well.

i have a question so well this is the next anticipated bond rating review is in 2027. so we're about to be going out for some more is that going to hurt us after the fact so let's say we go out for some of these bonds we're at the double a or double a plus and then we get these bonds is that going to push us down because we were carrying we're loving too much debt now when you say getting more one is more

getting more.

I think what she's saying is we're going to be increasing the level of debt that you have in 2027. So say we take on, you know, $25 million of debt in 2027. Now we have a huge debt per capita, you know, like we take that like debt per capita, say.

America could co-sign on that, right?

So when the city elects to go for that bond sale, the bond rating is done as a part of that issue. So they'll know about it. Whatever the number is, let's say it's X, they'll say, okay. You wanted to borrow back so that he's here all the conditions just actually frankly going through this strategy session will be helpful in getting that bond rating I would say like the next bond rating after 2027, it'll depend on what the criteria, like how much you're bonding for, what the city's done with this tax base, what it's being used for, a bunch of different factors. So I'd hate to speculate in the past whether it's Northland or Abdo or any of our financial folks have said as a growing city there's an expected amount of new debt. And it's not out of line with other growing communities. But beyond that, I'd be hesitant to say how or how it may not impact our overall rating.

Can I follow up on that question? Because I have a similar question. So there's not two separate times. If when we go out for our next bonds, that's when we will learn where we sit in terms of bond rating.

Correct.

So it's just one event.

Correct. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you for interpreting what I was trying to get out. Thanks for adding on. Appreciate it.

I would add this as an aside. A huge thing going through these ratings is the reporting and just a shout out to Lynn. I think you probably noticed as I have that over the last couple of years like the monthly reporting for the finance report has evolved tremendously from where it was not as a representation of anything else but Lynn's work and dedication to kind of showing that in a more comprehensive and I would say user-friendly manner.

Right so speaking of strategic planning giving a quarterly report I

And I think a point of pride for our organization and the council is that you continue to talk about these and have discussions about them. It's not a once-ever-again-through-your-exercise. And so in that same spirit, just kind of highlighting for you the main initiatives related to financial strength. improved operations, responsible development, stable infrastructure systems, and good communications. And so as we're kind of sunsetting that and kind of finishing up those last items, also an opportunity to think about what's next. And I know that's not until probably February, March of next year. but the reality is of what the community is dealing with today and in the future have a lot of these same pieces that we talked about in those initiatives and so you know what are the next steps but also kind of a feeling of security that the things that you've identified have been worked on and so As you can see, quite a bit of work. One of our big pushes internally is we want to wrap up these items, if at all possible, by year's end. And so there's a couple of items that have taken longer just because of the level of detail, but we don't want to have any outstanding items by the time we get to the next strategic item. planning session, so just highlighting a couple of the ones that you've all been participating with that joint session with the Council on Planning Commission. looking at the landing and the comprehensive plan. On July 6th, you had the work session strategy that Erin Smith discussed and facilitated. Brenda Goode spent a lot of time with her team launching the mobile app. A couple of things that have been kind of behind the scenes is drafting of our emergency operations plan and then scheduling of our tabletop emergency training and exercise. So as you remember, and maybe for those that are watching, we have two very large binders from the county on how to navigate that. And so the intention of that was to develop kind of a very hyperlocal emergency operations plan that's, you know, anywhere from maybe five to ten pages that not only is readily accessible to staff, but somebody in the community can look at and say, okay, this is how they're going to be handling these events or incidents, and this is what I should expect. But also as decision makers and policy developers, policy developers as a console it should give you a line of sight to how we're prepared and perhaps whether it's in terms of investment resource collaboration or policy development ideas opportunities and challenges related to that topic Lynn and I just met again today on drafting that five-year compensation plan. If you remember, we got the help of Abdul. I've been working closely with Chief Walsh on developing that, and so we're looking to hopefully roll that out probably in the next 60 days for council comment and review. We talked about the bond strategy. Tonight, we had our first of a couple of sessions on public safety goals, had a great conversation with Sergeant Baker as a follow-up, and have developed a framework that I think hits a lot of the notes, or hopefully most, or if not all of the notes that the council discussed on July 6th. and so we're going through kind of the draft review of that process uh that we'd like to kind of give you our first best swing on august 3rd not expecting that it's going to hit all the notes that you wanted to but it's part of like the process of like okay this is what we think we heard in one simple two-page document Um, and then you can give us the feedback that you think right sizes it for how you want public safety goals, uh, to be documented, memorialized, et cetera. Then finally the shared, not just with the sheriff's office, but with the community and, you know, you know, in a lot of ways, it really helps create shared expectations. We spent a lot of time talking about communications and that information flow. And talking to colleagues and other law enforcement agencies and you know just some offline conversations with other members of the Council. I think there is a path to create some maybe more mutual expectations and clarity around those topics, and I think. The combination of maybe some past liaisons and past communication methods. We kind of got, I think, a little bit twisted up, but I think for Sergeant Baker, my words, not his, but I think that nuance was a little bit overwhelming. And so I think we had a chance to kind of step back from that and look at kind of the heart and soul of what the council wants to accomplish and how we want to communicate with residents. So I'm excited to get your feedback when that comes back for August. So the entire report is in your packet. We highlighted the kind of the recent items, but happy to go over any questions that you have or perspectives that you'd like to share with others.

You know, Brent, for number two, one of the things that satisfied employees, when was the last time we did the employee survey?

So we do that once every two years, so we're lined up for later this year to do one.

Okay.

Question on the emergency management plan. You know, I trust city staff is... well-versed on this and we have queries from the media. When we were in Rochester and met with somebody at a booth and their business is preparing city staff and city councils to handle those kind of events, a little bit of media training, have we considered bringing somebody in to do that for us? Not that, you know, we're expecting to be pinned down But that's the point, you're not expecting it, so you're not necessarily prepared.

We actually have hired, his name is, or the company's name is Beacon Safety Services. And Rick Larkin has been facilitating that work with Andrew Simmons and Chief Walsh, kind of co-leading that. And he has tremendous experience. Actually, part of a little bit of the delay is he was... advising the city of Minneapolis during Metro surge and how to like deal with that emergency and communicate get all their teams together so he has probably way more experience than probably our application so I to your point I feel like we're well served and we'll get that training we want to take some steps to Uh, once we have like the template, we want to integrate the council into that piece. So you don't feel like you're just a bystander in it, that you understand, uh, what we believe your role would be in an incident and how to navigate that, et cetera. So point well taken.

Eric, do you remember the name of the vendor?

I have their information. I'm curious. Yeah.

THANK YOU FOR KEEPING ME TO BRING THIS IN FRONT OF US AND REMIND US. I KNOW THAT THAT WAS TWO YEARS AGO. AND IT'S JUST GOOD TO ALWAYS GET THE PROGRESS UPDATES.

THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT. I HAVE ONE QUESTION ON THE SLIDES OF THE POWERPOINT. TODAY HOW WE DISCUSSED THE STRATEGY TO INCREASE BOND RATING. SO I KIND OF WANT TO GO BACK TO WHAT MS. What are you like that? What are you or any other staff like hearing things that maybe we can do to, you had in the slide about like, it was the last one you ended on with diversifying tax base. Like, I know this isn't an example because it's so minor, but I know in April we did within our own, um, the loan program for, um, downtown restoration, like the EDA. Thank you. Is there anything that's probably a much larger scale or that, Like, I'm thinking TIF or things that... Yeah, the bond rating agency... Oh, and like Council Member Pritchard mentioned, like, maybe it's cybersecurity, but like, do we know what levers, you know, might be worth focusing on?

I'll answer the first part so like the the rating agencies are less concerned really not even concerned I would say with any like business development programs the city has that you know they want a signs of a well-run organization so that's reporting policies that are followed effective planning so budget processes, strategic plan. And then I would say on the business side, you know, they'd like to hear about how your community is growing, but you know, there's like a variable of, are you growing? Have you planned for that growth? Can you accommodate it? Like, so we talked about staffing plans, capital plans, monthly reporting to the council, increasing Our reliance on cash is a big one for them. That was a great policy choice from the council. But, you know, they don't necessarily share like, not like a, so it's basically like a credit report for cities is this reading, but we're not a party to or see like all the mechanics of how they read it. And so they have, typically they'll have two people on the line. and they ask some pretty standard questions that they ask in advance and we prepare answers and then it's basically an interview for about an hour but then they have a rating committee and the two people that were on the line make a presentation as I understand it to this rating committee and I'm sure they have a bunch of data and metrics that, you know, help them determine what that is. But it would be wild speculation for me to say, like, you know, if we did these one, two, or three things, part of it might be the person, the committee, the market environment at the time.

Have they had lunch? Etc.

Anything to add on that, Lynn?

I would say I've only had two rating calls in my career. I would say that probably the last one, because you get some of the questions, or Northland Securities tries to kind of prepare you a little bit ahead of time. And then if you can't answer the question fully, they'll allow you to kind of answer it afterward. And Northland Securities will provide an answer to them after. And I do feel like there were a little bit more technical questions as far as information technology. How often do you back up your information and different things like that? So I think for me, that's why I'm kind of focusing on the cybersecurity and just with all the fraud and different things like that. I just I really want to make sure that I'm well prepared in that area, as well as just updating our debt management policy, because that one was, I think, 2012 when that one was updated, you know, so just making sure that a lot of those things are updated. Up to date with what we're actually doing.

Yeah, and we also try to be like really good students if you will so like when they send those questions out we get the responses like as comprehensive as possible with attachments and Love to hear the well, you've made it so easy for us. We this won't last very long we're trying to like make up with hustle and initiative with maybe something that they're concerned with but um it's kind of whatever we can do to kind of move the ball forward okay any additional questions any additional questions or comments about the strategic plan update

Thank you. City Manager's report.

Yeah, a couple of things. So last week had a resident come in and we ended up doing kind of a site visit at Creekside Park and he had mentioned concern about ricochets coming off the targets at Riverside and wanted a fence to go up. And, you know, fences has been kind of like a hot topic internally lately. And so my initial reaction to him was like, and we haven't had any incidents, those are reported incidences, but I told him my inclination was some. I'd rather move the targets than have the city spend ten to fifteen thousand maybe dollars on a fence and so when I connected at first with the mayor about it she had somebody to reach out and then Andrew and I just kind of walked and talked a little bit about that and so unless the council has any reservation Andrew has a kind of conceptual plan to move the archery targets back down to Riverside Park. Understanding that we lost targets during the last flood. Obviously there is probably most of you know there's times where those targets can be out of commission whether it's for flood or probably in the next few years with the certified levy project. But wanted to get that on the council's radar and before we made any announcements, check in to make sure you're okay with that.

I wanted to comment with this because the last time we had talked when they moved to Creekside Park where Riverside was going, under staging, we had not said that Creekside Park was where they were going to stay. My impression from all of our conversations is that they were going back to Riverside Park. I see Lori's nodding along. So for them to go back to Riverside Park is by all means fine with me because to me that was the expectation that we already had. And for the flooding, I think, I mean, we've stacked it behind the PU building before, but I'm sure we can find a place for it when it floods. And we've had to do it before and If you get down there, if you know the water's coming and you remove them, they don't float away before the water gets there. And that usually solves that problem. So, I've done this before.

Just think if there's so much less work with the levee project, that they're gonna focus on, you know, some of those other things before.

Yeah, I mean, that would be crazy. That was a result of the emergency-ness and putting that living together. I know you're not saying that, but the desk had other things and that became a last priority.

What's the nature of the ricochet that's putting people at risk?

I'm not going to speak to my own editorial position on it. I would say the resident and maybe others who would say that the, if you don't hit the target, if it hits the wood, it could ricochet and go into the large dark or large dog park play area.

I also like to mention that some of, if I'm, if I am correct on this, those lots, actually lot lines come down behind the park. People could technically be on their property. If I'm wrong with that, I thought those lot lines came back down more to the edge of the park. you could technically be doing something on your property and have people shooting arrows while you're there.

I'm asking just because I actually heard a couple people say they've used it for the first time. Since it's invisible.

At one point we had leagues down there at Riverside for that as an archer myself.

I used to go a little more than that, but anyways.

You're a golfer now? You're an archer? No, I said I'm not a golfer. I am absolutely not a golfer. No, that's terrible. It made me nervous, actually, to have this here. Riverside is much because you've got the marsh behind you, so the likelihood of having any issues down there is pretty good. I think it grew a bit like you don't even know.

And then, so I don't hear any objections, so we did get a few dotes about the fencing in the New Creekside Park with the dog play areas. The contractor was out last week and made those corrections and they removed the by-rolls so that That should be taken care of. We're working on a draft insert with Nicole Crousey at Bolted and Make for the Certified Levee Project. So kind of two pages on some of the rendering, schedule, upcoming process, some funding pieces. So once that's prepared, we'll get that out to the council, but expect that to go in in August. And some really great news, the mobile road project started. And residents in that construction zone have been notified. We've had quite a few reach-outs on social media disregarding access. And you can continue to go to the cemetery, Lions Park, you know, neighbors can get to their homes, et cetera. Fundamentally, the only thing that's being excluded is if, you know, For example, if after this meeting I want to go home, I shouldn't be going all the way through Mount Hope Road to get to Spring Creek. I should be going up Jonathan Carver Parkway. The local neighborhood traffic is welcome and encouraged to use that. There will be times where it gets uncomfortable in there when you have the reclaimer or they're maybe pouring new curb, etc. You know, and kind of going through there today just to kind of observe the construction, you've got to really slow down. There's construction activity throughout that zone. And so we've also connected with the sheriff's office just to pay special attention, but I think The message is and will continue to be to neighborhoods and people visiting the cemetery and Lyons Park that they can continue to do so. And then I was just going to throw it over to Lynn. I had an incident come up that we found out about today related to our utility billing accounts.

SO WE SWITCHED OVER TO OUR NEW PAYMENT PROCESSOR, BSNA PAYMENTS. WE DID SEND OUT LAST WEEK AN EMAIL TO ANYONE WHO WAS ON AUTOPAY, WHO HAD THEIR ACCOUNT SET UP FOR AUTOPAY THROUGH INVOICE CLOUD, AND JUST SAYING THAT THEY WOULD NEED TO SET UP A NEW PAYMENT ACCOUNT THROUGH THE BSNA PAYMENTS. WHAT WE WEREN'T CLEAR ABOUT IS THAT THEIR PAYMENT WOULD STILL GO THROUGH INVOICE CLOUD FOR THIS JULY 20TH PAYMENT. So that was bad on us and we should have, um, sought clarity through invoice cloud and BSNA payments. Um, and so we have about 136 people who went in and set up automatic payment through BSNA payments, and we're still enrolled in invoice cloud auto pay. So they have payments coming out of both. So I've identified those people, and I've refunded almost all of them.

How long were the refunds taking?

They'll take probably a day or two. Go ahead. Sorry. And I've talked to, I'm trying to respond and reach out to anybody who's emailed directly to the utility billing, and I've gotten a really good response from most people all at once.

So whether they paid on the first or yesterday, they're just getting refunded now, though?

No, it's mostly people who paid on the 17th and then again on the 20th. Okay.

So that hasn't been hanging out there for weeks and weeks and weeks?

No, no. That was kind of my question. Were those payments just on the 20th? They were just on the 20th, so that's why I'm trying to get them back today. Okay. So that's, I'm trying to get them done before I leave here today. Okay.

All right. Thank you.

Yep.

That's all I have.

All right. Any council requests?

I have one. I know our council meeting a few, feels like a few months ago, We talked about the cell phone policy for council members and that that would be coming through from staff. Do you have an idea when that will be ready for us?

I think, let me pull that up. I have it on the council calendar. I'll pull it up. It's in like a month or so. Cellphone policy August 3rd.

Okay.

Thank you All right, I do just some awareness here I had a President come to me with a concern about a business being run out of their home And this is a little atypical. We don't typically regulate that you can have a daycare and you can have a hair salon that doesn't really impact the people around you this specifically is for lawn care company and this is more than just trailers and more than just vehicles in front of the house this is kind of a constant running of public works grade equipment getting on and off trailers being serviced so it got my attention i looked into this a little bit i've socialized it with aaron smith and other cities have specific carve-outs for this to address lawn care companies and i'm guessing that is the reason i don't know but i've asked to check into that and if it's something that we should take a look at Now, on the other side of this, we have a new parking ordinance that says if you've got something parked out in front of your house, you shouldn't have. The enforcement mechanism is to call the sheriff. So I have reinforced that that's an action that this person or whomever is concerned should do. So at the very least, there's some documentation that this is going on, it's been addressed, and whomever is doing this has been advised. There's a city ordinance that would disallow that. But I don't know that it disallows, again, public works grade machinery being run in front of the house on a regular basis. So, you know, I've asked for that to be checked into and maybe we bring that then to a discussion here if we should look at that ordinance.

Can I ask you a couple questions about that?

You can.

When they say that it's ongoing, are they just unloading and reloading? So it's a time period of that?

Because it goes on throughout the day. It isn't just morning or evening. I think it also may be running up equipment to check operation. We all mow our lawn, and most of us do, and there's a gas engine, and we accept that, but we probably didn't sign up to move into somebody who's got that level of machinery running regularly. The parking ordinance, if it was enforced, might regulate that. But I think it's worth at least looking into why other cities have specific call-outs. And that's my guess, is it's because it goes beyond just parking the trailer in front of the house that shouldn't be there. And this is excessive. I've seen, I've looked at pictures, I've stopped by myself. It's more than we would sign up for to have next door to our house. So I'm going to ask that we look into this further. But I'm starting with a review of other cities' ordinance that specifically call it out.

Is there a chance they're violating ordinance for noise? Like is there certain, too early, too late?

I don't know. I don't know that city machinery violates a noise ordinance. But we also don't have public works surrounded by a bunch of houses.

Well, I think any city projects are excluded from what time of day.

There's a home occupation section in our zoning ordinance that allows home occupations, which are people that are conducting businesses out of their homes, but there's a lot of limitations on no noise, nothing that isn't incidental to living in a home. I mean, things like someone having an office and running a business out of their home. you can't generate more traffic and so that's me with sound I mean what you're describing sounds like something that goes beyond what would be okay under our zoning ordinance just but I don't need no more details the other issue though is the business may not be run out of home it's just that happens to be the focal point of where all the machinery and equipment and trucks and trailers but that's part of I mean, if you run a business, you're supposed to have somewhere to store your equipment and run your equipment, and it isn't supposed to be your home, right?

There have been saw horses that block the street off. They're moved, but, and again, we have a parking ordinance now. We changed that, and there has to be, you've got to call, you've got to have the sheriff, come out it's unpleasant but that's part of the process in the regulation i just want to look at why again why other cities tackled it the way they did specifically calling it out i'd be upset if it was next to me and man i'm the king of you can't choose your neighbors so

So I think the way we generally do this is we need a majority to say, yes, this is something we want to look into and move forward. You kind of made it sound like you'd give a direction to move forward.

Well, if we can do that now, that's fine. I just wanted awareness that I've asked Erin to look into this.

Okay. Just so that I'm clear, I just have a question. You mentioned the parking ordinance.

Yep.

And I don't know if I'm putting one and one together correctly, but it sounds like if we enforce the parking ordinance, this could be a non, issue my question is like that and like has this resident called the sheriff's department to report this so that we can enforce the parking ordinance so i have encouraged the resident and any other affected residents by way of that one to utilize that have awareness of the parking ordinance

We can't do it for you. This is for you to initiate, and it bolsters your case if there's repeated offenses. What I don't know that it's going to deal with, though, is that deals with a trailer that's parked there too long or a truck that's parked there too long. If you've got heavy equipment running constantly throughout the day, That's more than a daycare or a hair salon.

For sure. But I just, you're kind of insinuating that no calls have been made. So I feel like that stuff.

I can't, I can't speak to that. I don't know for sure that that's the case, but I know that there's hesitancy. Nobody likes to be the neighbor that calls on your other neighbor. That's an unpleasant situation to be in. I know that the resident has reported to the city. So I'm taking that as has not reported to the sheriff. That's why I'd encourage that resident to do this. But it doesn't preclude us from having a look at that type of business running from home. So to your point, if the process is, is this worth taking into a work session discussion, I'd like to have it be a work session discussion. That's up to a couple more of you.

I'm happy to, sorry, go ahead. I was going to say, I don't have any concerns, but I also think I would love to get more information. I feel like, like if I feel like step one would be calling and reporting the cars that are illegally parked. And I'm feeling like it isn't happening. Nobody likes calling in your neighbors. I get that. But that's the process. Maybe Christy doesn't like driving the speed limit, but that's the process.

Not in your golf cart she doesn't.

Yeah. You know, so I just... More information.

Well, we'll get that, I think, from here. And the fact that there's precedence. Other cities specifically call this out, including Champaston, so a neighboring city.

Well, and I think what I hear you saying is it might already be written into our... Yeah, I mean, if someone is using their business equipment at their home for the purpose of running their business, and it's generating noise and bringing in equipment that isn't, know typically accessory to somebody living at a house I mean some people have stuff they have toys or other things and it sounds like they're running a business there and that that seems to toe the line of what our zoning ordinance would allow in a residential district I think that's that's the issue that there could be a parking issue as well that's separate but also it could be a violation but I think there's potential zoning issue here you can't You can't run businesses out of a residential zoning district at your house that under our code that are noisy and bringing commercial equipment to and from and parking and storing them there. I mean that,

goes beyond what city code allows so and that would be other than the parking enforcement that's yeah and if that's the case i don't think that that's a work session issue i think that's an errand writing a letter to the homeowner and enforcement yeah if you think that there's we have a methodology to address it because i would i would characterize the equipment as not the equipment for supportive maintenance of your own home it is for other homes skid loaders and well in heavy duty uh mowing equipment that the city would use not diving i'd have to know a lot more about what's going on to talk and talk to aaron about that because we've we've dealt with some home occupation questions so yeah i'm not so i'm not opposed to looking at the new ordinance but

Would you be okay if we went step one with having the clarification on the zoning, and then if we're not getting there, then we take a look at it? Or did you, are you like, I want this looked at?

No, if we have a methodology that addresses this, let's execute that first. Okay. So this is why I brought it up.

If we don't, then I'd be happy to look, I'd be happy to look at something.

All right. It is for, Coleswater-Pershman followed the right process. He connected with... Erin talked to me this afternoon and said, you asked what the first step was, and the first step was going to city council requests to make sure the council is on board. So we're going to process.

Okay, I'm sorry. I was just misunderstanding.

No, that's okay.

I want to be a rule breaker.

I guess it wasn't this time. We know. We always watch out for you breaking rules. This isn't the first time we talked about this.

If I could just ask one clarification. and it could be multiple things, but it is this. more a parking issue or a storage issue with what they have on the property?

I think it's a combination and that's what's unique and I think that's why there's a call out in other cities.

There's previously been some requests from residents about what someone, I'm not specific to any neighborhood or home, but they have a cast, electrical cords, buckets, et cetera, or a payloader parked in the driveway. And what we've told them was we don't have regulations for what people have stored on their driveway unless it creates a nuisance. And my interpretation of maybe this is that maybe you're interested in looking at making those items nuisance-worthy, or am I off on that?

I don't want to be an HOA. Okay. Yeah, so somebody's unsightly gas can or hose is unsightly, but I don't see that as the city's mandate. regulate that that's an HOA if you want to avoid that I'm specifically talking about heavy machinery in support of a business not your last part and conducting those business operations on site occur well loading offloading maintenance right that should happen at the business not in front of a store in the amount right well maybe You know, what's the line? A hose in a gas can? Unpleasant to look at. A bunch of, you know, I don't know the name. I know less about lawn mowers than I do about side-by-sides.

I can help with this.

But, you know, the big heavy mowers that you stand behind. You know, if those are running in the street, getting on and off trailers, that's in support of a business, not your home. Okay. I don't, but again... I think the concern is, are we enforcing what's in somebody's yard if they decide to decorate their entrance with

Lions or toilets or hoses or gas There are cities that do regulate what's stored in like for example Chanhassa this was looked at a while ago, but like they there are there are some more prescriptive Ordinances that they have related to what like you can't park recreational vehicles on the grass and front setback in Chanhassa or in your driveway or Well, that could be. So I was just trying to kind of clarify if it's more of like the contents, the operation, and parking, and maybe it's a combination of all three.

I think it's more the operation of. I really don't want a slippery slope of we're trying to regulate what the appearance of somebody's home is because there are... There are things like a gas can or a hose or electrical cords streaming across the driveway. That's unpleasant, but that's not the city. Gotcha.

So what I think doesn't happen is that Aaron and Dave are going to take a look at the ordinance. If this turns out to be something that we've already got covered, the resident will receive a letter saying that they're not following the ordinance. And if that's not the case, we'll be talking about...

yeah just to be clear too i think and maybe aaron has all the information councilman's but i think i'm not here i didn't hear specific enough information to know what we're talking about just other than parking some equipment and maybe she has those details or maybe you have them and if so i'd encourage you to share as many details as you can so because it's kind of a We have to be able to apply the facts to what we have in our ordinance. In order to do that, we have to understand exactly what the code is.

I think I have a good handle on it, so I'll share one over there. Great. Thanks.

All right. If there isn't anything else, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. I'll adjourn.