City Council - Regular Meeting

You might catch me on a bad stream of Fridays. Well, most Fridays are. The next two Fridays are not good. Any other day. Thursday.

It's not just Thursday.

I'm really not. It's only when we tell you that we're telling you you're coming.

It's like, oh, shoot, did I do it? What is it? Oh, Christy, tell her.

I actually took more than just a couple of calls. I took somebody's first call. A short one called Jason.

Yes. sorry i didn't know i mean oh how are you feeling

all right it is seven o'clock i will call this meeting order please join me for the pledge of allegiance

All right, can I get a motion to approve the agenda? Please?

I'm going to make a motion to approve the agenda motion by council member.

I'll 2nd, 2nd, by council member comrade any further discussion. All those in favor say aye aye aye. Opposed same sign motion passes. All right. This is now the community comment portion of the agenda. Presenters are welcome to address the city council for matters relevant to the city of Carver's authority for up to 5 minutes. on matters that are not listed on tonight's meeting agenda. Specific requests for information may not be immediately available, in which case follow-up will occur with the presenter sometime after the meeting. The City Council should not be expected to immediately act upon requests. However, we will follow up accordingly and may schedule items for future consideration. With that, is anyone here tonight for community comment? Come on up. I have a question. May I please sit by him and YEAH, WE GOT TWO CHAIRS THERE.

THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT. SO IF YOU COULD INTRODUCE YOURSELVES AND TELL US YOUR NAMES, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

I AM TIM THOMPSON.

MY WIFE AND I OWN THE PROPERTY, OR SOME OF THE PROPERTY, JUST SOUTH OF THE ADDITION OF BROOKVIEW. AND I LIVE AT 11633 PALMER ROAD, BLOOMINGTON, MINNESOTA. PATTY CAME TO ME A FEW DAYS AGO TELLING ME THAT THERE'S A MEETING THAT I MIGHT WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT. So we came out today and stopped at the south end of Mulberry Lane. And one of the things I was concerned about was did this garage floor elevation get the the right figure on it so i checked my i checked it with my hand level from in the catch basin and i decided we don't want to argue with that it looks pretty close but what patty was talking about is on this uh a lot three block one um where is it yeah that must be it uh I TALKED WITH HER AND TOLD HER THAT THAT LOOKS LIKE IT'S KIND OF A PROBLEM. AND SO SHE SAID SHE WANTED TO CHECK OUT THE GRADE ON IT. AND SO I TOOK MY TWO DAUGHTERS AND MY WALKING STICK AND WE WALKED DOWN TO THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF THE our southeast corner of the addition and the drainage is a problem the drainage most of it went south from um the northeast corner of our property north and there was a low spot there did you mean north or are you what

DID YOU MEAN NOW THE DRAINAGE GOES NORTH OR IN THE HISTORIC?

YEAH. NO, NOW THE DRAINAGE DOES NOT GO TO THE NORTH. AND I'VE JUST TAKEN THEIR WORD FOR IT. THEY'LL TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT THEY'RE ALLOWING TO BUILD IN THERE. Northwest corner of our property is in, and you can see it from when you walk in there. But the house has a fair bit of roof that slopes to the south and drops water onto a slope that pushes the water right onto our property. That was an area where the water had gone to the north about 150 feet, maybe, yeah, 150 would be about right. And they put the road in. We questioned what they were doing with the road, but we get there and we've got, there's one big problem because I took my walking stick and pointed it towards the east and a little bit south. And it was probably something like that kind of an angle going down that into the ravine. And I don't think that that's good judgment on the part of the designer. So that's basically what I want to say about it. And I'm not a great talker, so I'll leave the rest of it to Patty and Peggy. Where did Peggy go?

Oh, there she is.

Over there.

All right, thank you, Mr. Thompson. Okay, should I go next then? Yes, please. All right.

My name is Patty Thompson. I live at 11633 Palmer Road, Bloomington, Minnesota. My parents have been property owners here in Carver for almost 70 years. The piece of land they own is extremely unique in that east, west, and south is all steep bluff. The only part that's not bluff is the ground. Shared property line with Brookview when the Brookview development was in planning stages, we noticed that the way it was designed would cause harm to my mom and dad's land by blocking overland stormwater flow off their land and focusing stormwater flow toward the bluff edges to the east and west. we met with city staff to discuss our concerns city staff sent us a new revised grading plan designed by the developer's engineer to solve the storm sewer water problems caused by raising the elevation of brookview the new grading plan showed that the elevation of brookview would be the same as the elevation of my parents land all along the entire shared property line. Also, the new grading plan showed a swale, which is like a ditch, about nine feet from the property line that would dip down six inches lower than the elevations at the property line to allow an overland route for stormwater off the bluff land. Swale would catch overland stormwater and direct it to flow into the stormwater ponds on the northeast side of the Brookview development I Emailed city staff on June 4th, which was about seven weeks ago Because I noticed the swale was not there and the elevation of the land was too high the piles of fill dirt on Brookview had created a dam along the north property line, blocking overland stormwater flow and focusing it, concentrating it toward the bluff edges. A functional alternative route should have been maintained throughout the entire construction process. A heavy downpour of rain could occur any day and cause catastrophic erosion of the bluffs or landslide. I ask that within a week the City digs a functioning swale and correct the grading north of the property line so that it matches the final grading plan that we were given. I ask that the swale be put in, also put on a schedule within the city of regular maintenance to be sure it remains functional forever even as the houses are bought and sold to people who don't understand why um like understand why the swale is there early on in the construction process the swale was there as per the plan then it got filled in filled dirt got piled up higher now the swale is gone and covered with sod I would say the fill dirt is about a foot too high, and that's a big difference when you want to have even overland stormwater flow. Once the final grading is corrected and the swale is put in, the city needs to check it regularly to be sure it doesn't get destroyed. A couple weeks ago, on June 2nd, I received a response from city staff that said, quote, the lot is not finish graded yet, but when it is, we will make sure the swale is put in before issuance of final CO for that lot. Unquote, and I'm not sure, but CEO might mean certificate of occupancy, but I don't know. So, I looked at the swale area on Friday, which was 3 days ago when I noticed the side is in the elevation of the grade is too high and the swale is not in. I would like to know was the final CEO issued without a swale and with grading that does not match the plan or has. The final CEO not been or has it not been inspected yet? And the CEO maybe hasn't been issued yet. Maybe we are jumping the gun here. Maybe it just hasn't even been inspected yet. So special note here has the final CEO been issued for the house on the West side of Mulberry lane. Because have the elevations on that side been checked because some of my parents overland stormwater should be able to flow onto Brookview on the West side of Mulberry lane.

And then I'm going to ask you to start wrapping it up your 5 minutes. Okay. Okay.

I think I can just say. I look forward to hearing back from you. Thank you.

Great. Thank you so much.

Oh, I do have copies of the plan if anybody wants 1.

SHOULD I HAND IT OUT LATER IF YOU WANT TO LEAVE IT MAYBE ON THE TABLE YEAH IS THERE ANYONE ELSE FOR COMMUNITY COMMENTS UM I HAVE A QUESTION THOUGH REGARDING THIS TO MR TO THE MANAGER UH TO BRUNT HERE MR MERRICK UM HAVE WE OBVIOUSLY AARON IS HERE TONIGHT I'M ASSUMING I'M NOT USUALLY THAT FORMAL WITH YOU BUT THERE WE WENT UM I'M ASSUMING THAT THIS WAS PROBABLY AARON UM IT WAS A CITY STAFF WHO WAS RESPONDING THEM

Not sure.

Okay.

I would offer most of the grading issues are usually handled by the city engineer. But I would say long story short, the benefit of having this meeting recorded is we don't have to take great notes. And I'm sure Aaron Schmidt, the city engineer, and Aaron Smith, community development director, Nick Jorgensen, building official, will review. I'll make sure that's facilitated the next day. And we'll get a response back to the Thompsons.

Okay, to counsel, because I'd also like to hear where we're going with this. Thank you. So I appreciate that. I think it's worth looking into to make sure that our developers are being held to what the, what the plans say they should be.

So is there anyone else for community comments? All right. Okay. Thank you. And we will city staff. We'll get back to you on that one. Thank you so much for coming.

Yep.

Thank you. Okay. This evening. We don't have any presentations and reports. We don't have any public hearings. Can I get a motion to approve the consent agenda? I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda motion by council member Pascoe.

I'll second.

Well, I'm going to give that to Christy second by council member Conrad. Any further discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, same sign. Motion passes. All right. Up next, we have our business items, which tonight is item 8.1, design development presentation for the public services facility. Letra Simmons.

Good evening mayor and council. Thank you very much for giving us the time to discuss the design design development of future public services facility. We've put a lot of work into it at this point and are very interested in getting feedback and seeing where we're going to go next on this project. JUST TONIGHT WE HAVE ORTEL WHO IS OUR ARCHITECT AND WE ALSO HAVE TERRA CONSTRUCTIONS WHO WILL BE OUR GENERAL CONTRACTOR HERE THIS EVENING. SO THEY WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT COME UP THIS EVENING. SO TO START OFF, PUBLIC SERVICES IN THE CITY OF CARVER, WHERE HAVE WE BEEN? WHERE ARE WE NOW AND WHERE ARE WE GOING? In nineteen sixty eight city public services operate of a building downtown right across the street from here in nineteen eighty six, they moved up to the lions park garage where we still operate out of that building as well. Um, in 2004, public services also utilize the downtown storage building, or as it's known around town. Um, and then in 2004, the new building fire station, public services building was constructed and that's where we mainly operate off that space today. So, what was going on in the city of Carver in 2004 in 2004, the population was around 2000 residents. In 2026, we're at 7,300 7,400 residents. So there's been significant growth since 2004 also since 2004 highway 212 has extended 4 lanes to reach Carver, which has been. a monumental shift that has changed trajectories of our growth. The regional sewer has been connected to the City of Carver, so we no longer operate our own sanitary sewer plant. Our public services employees have gone from 6 employees to 11 full-time employees in 2026, and we're upwards of 18 people when we're fully staffed in the summertime with seasonals. The number of wheeled equipment has tripled Over the past 20 years, and a fun fact, looking at met councils population forecast in 1992 for 2020, we are forecasted at 940 people. So. The growth of the city of Carver has been. Extraordinary, and it will continue as the 2040 population estimate is over 17,000. so double of what we are today. So, looking at our current spaces that we operate out of today, we have the main JCP building, which we have 9500 square feet, the downtown building. We have 4200 square feet and then the lions park building. We have 2000 square feet. So all in covered space to store equipment and operate out of is just shy of 16,000 square feet. So some of the challenges that the City of Carver Public Services faces today are we do not have a dedicated mechanic space, so repairing equipment in-house is challenging. There's a lot of moving trucks in and out of the shop to get an area that's gonna be safe to work on. And then if that truck is down for, let's say, a week, it's taking up that space that we utilize to park other pieces of equipment. So we're parking more things outside than we are now. We don't have dedicated workshops, so there's no utility space. There's no park space to work on wood projects, park signs, street signs. None of those have dedicated areas to work in. We have no dedicated welding area, which is something that occurs regularly. at least on a weekly basis where we're fixing something or welding something onto a truck. So again, we're making sure that we have a safe area to work on and setting up safety equipment. And there's people always walking by those areas. It's a highly trafficked area. Currently, we have limited and undersized locker room space. So, if you've been into our building, there is a few lockers that are in an enclosed space with a restroom, but then the rest of the lockers are on top of the mezzanine because we're running out of room there. So, having dedicated locker areas would be nice for people that need to do things after work that want to shower up and clean up before they go to their kids school conferences. Uh, currently we have no storage of bulk materials besides salt. So that'd be another thing that we're looking at. Um, so we have spaces around town, right? We have the, the park building at lions park, and we have the building, but we're not able to store wood chips and sand and gravel and all those things that we need on a daily basis. So bulk storage is something that we don't have. And then the biggest thing really to me is that we're kind of driving around town a lot to do several tasks, right? So the brine is made in the downtown building while the trucks are stored at JCP. So when storms are coming in, there's a lot of shuffling equipment around making the brine, loading the trucks, getting them back to JCP in preparation for the storm. So knowing those things, we did a space study needs that Ortel did for us, and they took the space that we currently have, which is the 15,750 square feet, and what we would need today, which is the additional 37,000 square feet, and that gets to nearly 53,000 square feet of today's need. And then they extrapolated that as to what the city is going to be in 20 years. What are our needs for space going to be in 20 years, 30 years, 50 years. So you can see those numbers go from 82 to 97 to 125,000 square feet. So, looking at those numbers of. what our current shortage is, what today's needs are, what's the future look like? When does a building get built and how much does that building cost? So present day would have been 2025 estimates, 2027, probably spot pretty close to spot on there. And then what's the cost of waiting. So if we decided to pick a 82,000 square foot building, In 2027, we're at 35.1. If the community decides to wait, you know, that cost is going to escalate just over time. So, last summer, after we did the space study needs, we also had a listening session. So the community could come in and kind of give a pulse as to what they thought of our plan going forward. You know, some of the things are yes, public services needs more space for this growing community, but also be mindful of how much we're spending and how that's going to impact people's taxes. being able to be creative in our design and be efficient in our designs and live within our means, but also plan for the future. Last fall and last winter, there was an opportunity for the city of Carver to buy property for this future building and we jumped on it. So the city of Carver purchased 22 acres just south of town. Now, annexed in the city of Carver, but 22 acres of flat farm field, no trees, Sandy soils, very usable site and the city got it at 32,500 an acre, which would be challenging to do. So, at this point this year. When we started the design development portion of this project, city council came up with some guiding principles to guide us through this process. So, be creative in design and operational approaches that maximize the new spaces that are created use building materials and construction methods that maximize value. and have a building design that meets the space needs beyond the scope of the debt service. So if we're gonna build a 20 year building and take out a 20 year loan, make sure it lasts at 20 years before we come back 10 years from now and say, we need a bigger building. So, last fall, we kicked off the design development process team members and public services, leading the work of what they want to see in a space that they're going to operate out of for the foreseeable future. We took a tour of other public works facilities. Around the Metro to see how other cities live and work in their space. What mistakes were made what they wish they would have asked for all those types of things. And then we have developed and updated a project budget based on our 60% plans. We're presenting that design development plan to the city council tonight for comment. Um, and then after tonight, we'll have several periods, uh, for the city residents and public to comment on those plans. So now we could jump into, uh. The site plan for the building, Alec from Bolton & Menke is here as well. He helped develop this plan. So if we have questions on specific site plan issues, we can talk through those this evening. Simple site plan. We have an entry on the south side of the property, which will function as both an in and an out for the property. The north access point will be exit only onto JCP. We have staff parking and public parking here, and then there'll be gates that will be located so the rest of the functional area of the property can be closed after hours. We have a fuel island here. And then we have the salt shed and storage bins on the north side of the property. They're put there strategically that if and when the city decides to expand the size of the building, none of those things need to move. So probably not a decision that any of us will make in this room. Hopefully, it's a 50-year type of thing. Wait, wait, wait.

You're not going to retire here in 50 years?

I hope I'm retired in 15 years. But those are the great things about the site plan and the opportunities that we were afforded with the site selection that were not pinned in. There weren't topographical challenges. There weren't trees that needed to be saved. There wasn't ravines nearby. So we have a great site that gives us a clean slate and no challenges in that aspect. Now, 1 of the challenges that we do have is getting water and sewer to the site and we will have a lift station on site and it will be pumped back to the city system. And we will also bring out water pipe. So it'll have fire protection and all those things that are needed to function the building. So that's just a high level overview of the site plan. Another thing I will say is that we have a great big green space here in between the pavement that is designed for future use and not anything with this project. So walking into the building, I'll kind of take it kind of piece by piece to keep people oriented on what we're doing in the building here. This is the main vestibule that would be like the public entrance that people would come into. Through that door set, you would have a conference room, bathrooms and reception. And anywhere that the public would need to go beyond that, they would have to key card in there. So we have, you know, kind of a secured area. reception and office functions. And then we have six offices planned for the outside. And then a large area here that could function as a bullpen, cube land, whatever type of function is needed. Not really programmed right now, but that will probably be desk space. So, we have a storage closet here for future plans sets and all those things that come along with public works. We have a great hallway here that at 1 point was just the hallway and then we. Kind of shifted gears a little bit and made this a functional space with a countertop. So people can pull up their computers there and have a workspace there that's not tied to a cubicle or anything like that. And then there's going to be windows that will face out into the parking garage, which would be a cool feature that you don't see at a lot of places. We have a break room and training room here. And this was sized with... having a second polling place in mind within the city. So people that would utilize that can queue through the lobby area, vote, and then exit out of that entrance. It'll be a great space for training opportunities that we can partner with other cities and have them come over. So it's not just, you know, city of Carver workers getting into training. We can invite the neighbors where oftentimes we are the ones globbing on to other people and going to their facilities. And it would be nice to host, you know, to cut down on some of that drive time once in a while. We have a great storage room here so we can fold up all these chairs, tables, put those away for whatever's needed in that space. We have an IT room for all our IT needs and server issues in the future. Another restroom and then I think a wellness room and then a storage closet in this hallway, which leads into the men's locker room here on the north side and then the women's locker room on the south side. And this entrance over here will be presumably mostly staff entrance throughout the day or when they get there from the day. So there's a nice flow of dropping stuff off in the locker room, dropping stuff off at the lunchroom and then beginning your day in the office area. Oops, wrong way, sorry. So now we move into vehicle maintenance. So this hallway right here is also part of, was a part of the office plan that is this hallway here. So imagine going through this door and that goes into the mudroom slash vestibule that will lead you into the vehicle storage area. But also can lead you into the vehicle maintenance area so boot washing this area hand wash all those types of things when you're coming in from a dirty job cleaning up before you get into that office space so there's kind of a break there from the dirty work to the cleaner work. We have part storage. Bulk fluid storage, and then this will be a mechanics office that will serve the city long into the future for their mechanics needs. And then we have two smaller vehicle work areas and then a large vehicle lift and then we will have dedicated welding areas so there's three garage doors on the south side that lead out into the parking area and then three garage doors on the north side that lead into the vehicle storage so you're able to pull the vehicle work on it and then go park it so that is vehicle maintenance we look at The building as a whole, so we have our office area, our vehicle maintenance, and our vehicle storage area with the big garage, lots of parking for all the trucks that we have now and into the future. We also have a wash bay. that will have a garage door to the outsides so employees can pull the trucks in after a plow event, clean them, clean the salt off, and then park them. So it's an opportunity to take care of those assets that are supposed to last for 20 years and are expensive. How are we taking care of those things? In the back here, we have workshops, three workshops planned, and then there is a restroom in the back to cut down from some of that travel time when you need to go. Here's the mezzanine plan, so kind of overlaid on the building plan. So there's plans for a mezzanine above the workshops. Which we would install our current crane that's at 801 and we will move that over to this new building and be able to lift things up onto that new mezzanine space to utilize the asset that we already have. There'll be a mezzanine space in the vehicle maintenance area. which will be utilized through a gantry crane that will be installed so we can lift car tires, truck tires, all those things that are not needed to be stored in the working areas, but keeping those areas clean and usable and having that up there. And then we also have an option for a mezzanine in the vehicle storage as well. SO THESE ARE THE ELEVATIONS. ANDREW COOPER HERE FROM ORTEL. HE CAN PROBABLY TALK THROUGH THESE A LOT BETTER THAN I CAN. BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST PRETTY PICTURES TO ME.

THANKS, ANDREW. GOOD TO SEE COUNCIL AGAIN. ANDREW WITH ORTEL. SO ONE OF THE COUNCIL DIRECTIVES WAS DURABLE, REPEATABLE MATERIALS. SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO FEED INTO THAT LONG-LASTING BUILDING PROJECT. So, and help extend that life of the of the building beyond that debt service. So what we're looking at here is a durable precast concrete wall panel for. 90% of the project, and then a steel stud and durable cladding to be determined. We're still vetting out material exterior material options for the office area. Uh, fenestration is, uh, windows are located strategically to be where people are and not necessarily just for an aesthetic appearance. So there, uh, in this elevation, you see, um, uh, windows in the break area and in the, uh, private office and reception area, and you see a material color change specifically where the public entry is within that field of that kind of cream color so that when people come to the parking lot, they know where they're supposed to go. subtle material changes that provide that visual acuity. And then we're also integrating some shading elements and some depth within the windows because these are south facing windows. So we want to make sure that we're not accepting all of the heat of the summer and we're strategically placing those things and sizing them so that they're a passive climatic response into the facility. Maintenance side is on the left hand of this image and enter mentioned there are three overhead doors in that the height of the of that operation and the depth of that Building block is designed around the service of the largest vehicle that would be serviced there, which is the fire truck So in order to service that fire truck, there's certain equipment operations that have to happen with The ladder going up and pivoting and out rigors to stabilize that truck. So the height is there. Not just from an aesthetic queue. It's there purely as a functional. Aspect, so we do find opportunities within that height of that particular operation. to introduce daylight, and we'll see that in one of the other renderings as well. Because daylight, not just for people in the office, but also for people that are in the vehicle maintenance area and the vehicle storage area. We're storing and servicing trucks, but people operate those things. So those are still people spaces. We want to introduce as much daylight as possible because it is free and easy to incorporate. The daylight is free.

It's free, great!

The this is the West elevation and those windows on the right hand side. Those are the West facing windows into the vehicle maintenance area. So, tall, narrow windows and West elevations allow that sunlight as it's kind of glancing and coming around to be filtered. So you don't get a lot of glare on the floor. We are introducing similarly some window openings in the vehicle storage area because people are walking within the vehicle storage area. And whenever we can introduce that daylight, it's an operationally safe feature without having all the lights needing to come on. You're still able to navigate that space in and around vehicles, whatever is attached to them while you're trying to get to your equipment. 2 overhead doors on that elevation as well. Sorry. And so right now, and you saw this on the plan, the traffic is omnidirectional. We're seeing striping today in the building plan to simply help us lay out structure. Once that structure is in Andrew and his staff can live within the facility as long as they need to without striping on the floor and then stripe it as necessary. So that is, it is customizable that builds adaptability and resiliency within the design that we're not automatically going to a certain space required within that vehicle layout. Next elevation is the North elevation and it is pretty plain. There are some windows specifically within that vehicle circulation area. We don't want to introduce windows into the wash bay because they'll just be dirty. Um, the, all of the shop spaces that we saw in that building plan are all serviced and access from inside the building. So we're minimizing the amount of openings like overhead doors, which. As good as they are at and getting better at air tightness. They're not the greatest thing. So whenever we can try to limit those large apertures on the north side, that is better for overall building performance. Um, and then we have the mezzanine, um. Storage on the upper level as well. So. In order to increase functionality, there are minimal window openings on that north side. On the right-hand side, you see what would be the transformer and the switchgear cabinet, and there will also be a generator out there as well. East elevation, so there are a significant number of trees along the East elevation currently in the landscaping plan, but for their 1st, number of years, they're going to be little. And so this is primarily what we're looking at in terms of a public facing facade. Very definitive within the colors and in the heights what is operational and what is staff areas. See, on the right hand side, that's the wash bay entry and then the 2 general parking areas. The water utilities will actually come into the building on this elevation. So this would be the also the fire access side of the facility. aerial view that does show some of the initial upfront landscaping. You see the fuel island on the left hand side there, that fuel island with a canopy. The canopy does provide you advantages for filling when it is inclement weather, but also from a stormwater perspective, we're not letting general rainwater fall where there could be a potential spill. Vehicles as well maintained as they're going to be in a new facility are still going to drip some fluids. So anytime we can keep that rainwater off of that before it runs into our onsite stormwater areas, it's better long term for the performance of the project. And then we do have rooftop units that will serve the mechanical needs of the both the office and the vehicle storage and maintenance facility. So there will be some screening there, but we also have an ample. Blank slate up there for an amount of solar. We have a budget amount of solar. There's always the potential to increase that long term. The building is going to be designed to handle whatever solar you want to put up there from a structural loading perspective. So there's also added adaptability and resiliency into the design there. So you can always increase that up to the capacity of whatever you can fit on the roof. Then some additional approach pictures, so that. You can see, as you're driving on Jonathan Carver Parkway, what what does this facility look like as you're driving South? What does it look like as you're coming into the facility? So, whether you are arriving to vote, you're arriving for your day at the office, or you're delivering something to the front door. Very, it's a very solid building. It's aesthetically pleasing, but it's not ostentatious. There's nothing in here that says. You know, it's gold plated or anything. This is very robust and it looks like a public works.

It looks like a. And there's not a fence all the way around it. Just gates, just gates.

Correct. Employee support entryway, so here you really see that articulation of the public entry. It's very clearly defined. You're not going to say never, but you should very rarely have people accidentally walk into the employee door regardless of where they park in that parking lot. THEN ALSO A LARGER DETAIL OF THE MAINTENANCE ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE AND THE FIELD ISLAND AS WELL ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE.

I'M SORRY. IT'S REALLY QUICK. WE'VE GOT THE COVER PUBLIC SERVICES LIKE SIGNAGE RIGHT HERE BUT THAT DOESN'T FACE THE MAIN ROAD, RIGHT?

CORRECT.

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT, I MEAN, IS THERE A REASON THERE THAT IT DOESN'T FACE THE ACTUAL ROAD BECAUSE YOU COULD STICK IT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BUILDING?

There is space there to put the signage. We absolutely will have the building number on that side because that is the address side. And from a fire perspective, you have to have the address number on that east side.

But there is room there to move that sign that says Carver Public Services to the road-facing side. Okay.

I'd imagine we'd probably have a sign that we have a fire station, a water treatment plant, too, and all the parks.

Sure. I just think, why are we having to face the neighbor's house rather than the main one, sir?

I don't think it's really been discussed at that level of what side the letters are. He just put them on the building. No, you don't. We're at 60%, not 100%. That's fine. I just caught my eye.

We're facing the neighbor's house. 30,000 foot level.

Right. So that's kind of the building overview, architectural piece of it. And we can definitely talk about that more here in a little bit. But I also wanted to introduce Dalton and Corey from Terra Construction. And they can kind of talk about what their role is on the project.

Uh, good evening, Marian council. Um, we just wanted to take an opportunity to introduce ourselves. So you get to know us. Um, we have been terror construction has been selected as your contracted construction manager for this project. Um, we were contracted back in September of. 2025 and, um, us as a company, uh, we work with municipalities. We know that you do these projects to serve your community and serve your citizens. And that's what. That's what we Excel at our tagline is serving those who serve others. Um, we've worked with a lot of municipalities and this is this is what we love to do. We love to see the work that you guys are doing for your citizens and we'd love to help you with that. So. As your CM, we act as an extension. My name is Corey Reiners. I'm the pre construction manager over at Tara construction.

My name is Dalton Howard. I'm a project manager construction and early on in the process. So I've been on board with the city since the very beginning. And early on our goal was to really fully understand the city's wish list. And make sure that we could carry those wish list items through through the pre construction phase through estimating and, uh, and part of our part of our, um, our job there was to go on the tours that Andrew brought up. And so we were along for all the different public tours. Looked at those wish lists and worked along with, or tell, uh, from an estimating standpoint to make sure those wish list made it made it to paper.

Yeah, and once that paper came out, um, we were right there at the design meetings, helping facilitate providing guidance and then, uh, just experience, you know, we brought along our historical pricing, our historical knowledge on a lot of these projects just to be able to contribute to that process. And what you see on on there is just that construction management process. We're. we act as an extension of you guys so you don't have to do two jobs you don't have to work your regular job and then also be a construction management person so that's what we are hired to do and and that's what we do so during those design meetings what we've done is once we had paper we were able to do quantity takeoffs get materials put together and get accurate historical pricing so that we could accurate or represent what was put to drawings after programmatic design was put together. And so that's our expertise and that's kind of what we've done thus far. As we move along and get towards actually bidding this project out to potential vendors, um, we will follow the city's guidelines with the competitive bidding. Uh, what's required, uh, your purchasing guidelines, uh, contract language and we work very closely with you guys to ensure that we get, uh, a competitive, uh, qualified and, uh, a good project set up contractually. And then, um, after it's bid out and we've got contracts rolling, we stand beside you as we build the project.

Yeah, so from an actual once constructions underway, our project team will consist of myself, uh, an appointed superintendent who will be onsite daily managing the project from the actual job site itself. And likely a project aside, there's also an 8 PM in the office. Our assistant PM, and then or field engineer on site as well, helping out the superintendent. So there's any probably on practice side, 3 or 4 people from here that are designated to this project in this project alone. We manage the site from a safety perspective from a scheduling perspective and and and make sure that we're good neighbors to the people to the South as well. Uh, from the office side, it's working hand in hand with Andrew ever at or tell for, uh, budgeting, uh, any changes to the project, um, uh, problem solving through RFIs and discussions and weekly meetings. Um, and it's just, and it's just getting us, uh, working hand in hand with hotel to get us through the project and provide a quality end results for the city.

And so, along with that, uh, the next slide is our, our initial budget. So, um. The plans that, um, that Mr Simmons went through with you, these are the numbers that we've been able to put together as a, as a, as a budget. you know, we've gone, we've utilized our market pricing, our vendor partners, and we've utilized our expertise in quantity takeoff and understanding of materials. And we've come to budget pricing associated with the drawings that were presented to you today. And so the top portion is broken out into the site work. So getting in earthwork, site clearing, the fuel island, All of that is involved in the site work. We've also broken out into the 3 different building areas. So your vehicle and maintenance facilities as a number. Your employee support and office as a number, and then the salt and brand facilities. Um, so those total up into your direct costs and then below the line, you'll see a contingency and escalation. Um. because of the level of the design right now, we hold a contingency just to make sure that we've accommodated for any design changes or additional details that come forward while we continue to budget this project. So it protects you and it allows us to continue to move forward through the design. Um, so that's your construction estimate total the box underneath that is your owner budgeted. So soft costs. So, um, if you take your building and you tip it upside down, usually the things that don't stick, uh, those are soft costs. So those are things that you're buying, like, um, furniture, um, fixtures, equipment and technology. We've also got general conditions in there. So, just from a high level, um, as we're on site, we're, that's our staffing cost. That's, um, the cost to provide the safety for the site. Um, the, the job trailer, the temporary facilities to ensure that, um, the, the project has the temperature controls it needs to be able to actually build the project. Um, fees expenses and insurance, so that's our cost to do the job and then adding in the insurance. And then a contingency on top of that too, because we haven't selected furniture. So, um, just to make sure that we're right sized on what needs to go into that building. To make it a functional facility, and so you have a soft cost estimate total there and then just to total it all up a total project budget, hard cost plus soft costs. Uh, right now we have a budgeted estimate of 32,111,000 dollars and 11. $111,900. So that's where we're sitting at with the budget right now from our best practice history, from our historical pricing, from vendor support, and then also just our historical and quantity takeoff knowledge as well.

So, as we've been working on this project and putting together the budget, we've also selected some areas where costs can be deductions can be made. So, so far all the plans that you have seen right now. That is what that 32Million dollar number is. Um, it includes the solar array. So, removing the solar array would be a deduct of 120,000 dollars. Um, if you chose to reduce the maintenance Bay area by 1800 square feet, that would be a 500,000 dollar deduct. Um, so then we have. The East mezzanine, there's ulterior exterior finishes that could be chosen to save money there. There's reduced parking area and then, you know, reducing the vehicle storage area. Every square foot would be a reduction of $210 square foot.

Can you explain the solar array? Is that just that it's going to be able to carry the load of solar panels, or what does that mean by solar array?

That would be the actual solar panels in the infrastructure to actually connect them back in. Okay, so... The structure itself, that's in there.

Okay, so this is the actual panels that are... Okay, okay.

Hey, Consul. Hi. So, I'm going to jump in and I'm going to talk about the estimated tax impact before kind of jumping into that. So this project. Kind of generally has been prorated based on departments, although you see the property takes property tax. impacts are prorated amounts out of the water and sanitary sewer fund because as you know we operate public utilities and those operations and so those just like we do kind of every function of our team whether at city hall or public services those amounts are prorated whether it's salary and benefits supplies etc. So, in looking at the tax impacts on the left, you'll see a 35Million dollar building at 25 years. We've extended this to 25 years and Andrew Simmons has verified that the expectation would be that this space would at least last for 25 years. So that's the. Property tax calculation that we. Assessed using our friends, Tammy and Jess from Northland securities, they prepared these numbers. So you can see corresponding home value and monthly impact along with an annual impact and then the table at the rate. shows where we're at design development phase at $33 million at 25 years. I will add, it's not located in the budget, but it's represented in the tax impact that within the confines of this bond issuance would be the reimbursement of land costs that the city had connected with the acquisition of that Bruce and Nancy Jerison property in 2025. Um, I would also add as a caveat that, uh, as, you know, but for those that are watching. This annual impact is as if this project was just budgeted for and taxes applied separately for this project. But as we all know, and I think most people understand the city has many operations and services and past that, et cetera. And so, um. When someone gets their tax statement tax statement, it won't necessarily show up like this and there are policy and expenditure choices that the city council can make that will impact this. And, for example, 1 of the things that the. Council discussed that the 2027 budget kickoff would be was to perhaps advance a part of the project and fund that with cash in 2027. the example was used as the turn lanes for the project. And so if you think of kind of on the whole. In round numbers, the debt service payment for a project like this is 1.5M and so rather than taking 1.5M and pay 2028, maybe you take 350,000 and apply that in 2027 to do some projects and pay yourselves back for some planning costs. And so instead of 1.5 all in 2028, it's 1.5 minus that 350,000. So it spreads out that impact. I would also offer, which I think makes this project unique to Carver, as opposed to maybe some of our friends and neighbors to the east, is we're a growing community. And so when you go back to that slide that Andrew Simmons presented, looking at population, if you look at today conservative, we have 7,500 people that are paying their portion of this pie. Whatever the city's population is in 2040, which we expect to be around 17,000, you have 17,000 people paying for that same size pie. And so what that looks like, as we go on is kind of subject to a lot of different things and variables. But if you look at a kind of a fully developed city that's doing the same project, they know with a pretty reasonable degree of certainty that their tax base is going to stay within this window where we know that our tax base is going to grow and we'll have quite a bit of input based on that. So these numbers represent tax base for 2027 and not representative of what you'd have for 2028. So, there's some all in all, there's some moving pieces and parts, but also add. So you saw on that previous slide that Tara's estimate was at 32.1. For the purpose of this exercise, and where we're at at 60% plan, we've rounded that up kind of on a belt and suspenders plan that at 60% plan rounding that to 33 and having nearly 5Million and contingency. Puts the city in a place, and I think we've all experienced this at different points in time. You never want to go back to the public and say, hey, we were short on our estimate. We're actually going to need another 500,000. Could that happen? Hopefully not. But we think we're being pragmatic and looking at this from a. contingency perspective. And something I'll kind of mention later on is, you know, when you think about the space study, that's do we need the space and kind of check the box like, yes, design development is okay. What would that space kind of look like and what features would you have on it? You've checked the box. This is where that is. THE THIRD PHASE OF THAT IS CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS. AND TO WHAT ANDREW SIMMONS MENTIONED AND COUNCILMEMBER CONRAD, IT'S REALLY GETTING INTO, OKAY, WE'RE ALL COMFORTABLE WITH THIS KIND OF CONCEPT. WHAT WOULD IT COST TO BUILD THIS SPACE? WITH DETAIL. I CAN'T SAY THE OTHER WORD. WITH DETAIL. SPECIFICITY. YEAH, THAT ONE. STEARNS COUNTY, YOU DIDN'T LEARN HOW TO SAY THAT. But if you think about this, like even though there's a tremendous amount of detail, it really has stopped with what you see here. So like the finishes, the types of sinks and countertops and furniture, none of that has been decided. And so there is a real opportunity to like have those conversations and provide the Terra and Ortel and staff teams like that type of direction on budget. And as you do that, it becomes a simpler exercise, not easy, but for someone like Corey to do those estimates saying, okay, this is the type of carpet that they're thinking of. And these are the windows and these are the finishes of the building. And then that contingency number can come down. You still want to keep it there, but you're not talking about a $5 million project. And if you think about that in terms of this overall project, even at 33, $5 million is a significant amount of money. It's frankly equal to the amount that this whole building project cost that we're sitting in today. And so thinking about that for context, if you can move. So... Engagement plan, so we've been as a staff team talking about this for the last 7 or 8 months. And so once council feels comfortable with it, we'd like to roll it out to the community and kind of continue that next step. So they can become comfortable point out blind spots, have a community conversation about this. And it's intentionally long because in most cases people don't like to make decisions and provide feedback about major investments on a condensed timeframe. And so that's why you see some of the kind of the spreading out of this. And so we'd be looking for the council tonight to engage our professional service staff with some immediate questions and feedback. But we have laid out your August 3rd work session to kind of do a debrief and you've had a couple of weeks to kind of consume it, approve the content for the engagement plan. If there is some immediate feedback to this design development phase, like, You saw that deduction list and there's something like we know for sure that we don't want to include that or we know for sure that's something we want to add. That'd be great feedback to have. And then going through the fall, it's kind of mirroring what we did for City Hall. Newsletters, social media, website comment, project video, really utilizing and leveraging the amount of traffic that's at the fire station public services open house. Easily over a thousand people are attending that. and then something that we've i would offer we've had a lot of success with is the community listening session so not debating um but having residents come in and having the council listen and if there are questions that we can easily answer we do uh if there's kind of feedback that we haven't considered it's considered and then after each one of those we create more or less a diary of those and then share that out with the public so Those who didn't find the time to participate or didn't want to can still participate at arm's length. And then taking that to your November 16th meeting where the council discusses that feedback, we engage and talk about that. Can, if you can move on to the next slide that happens to kind of coincide then with. What we think would be a good next step for the consoles to engage even before engagement is done and having the construction drawing phase. So you can see. How that space study design development, that budget number has become more refined. It gets to some of those, you know, final pieces. And to kind of use a corporate phrase, those construction drawings are evergreen. I mean, they'll last. And so no matter when the council would decide in the community to do the prep. You like that?

You hated it when I first used it. I love it now.

Okay.

You'll always have those and if the council wanted to move with a kind of a summer schedule, if you waited until December, January, February, et cetera, to do that, and you had a 4 to 6 month process. Then you're retaining some of that contingency and the Tara team can probably talk about that if you have specific questions, but for design escalation, because. You might, based on that schedule, by not doing construction drawings, you might move into a spring of 28 construction start. I'm not gonna try to speculate on what all those things are. The Terra team can do that. My point is that if you make that investment, you're probably in the best situation to act if you feel like there's support to doing that. And so at that November 16th meeting, that's where we give that project update to council. That would coincide with a January 4 meeting where there'd be a construction of this presentation, the construction drawing phase. So, similar format to what you see here. This, it's a culmination of the community feedback, the council feedback and evolution of the drawings. Council can order the project or order the public hearing for the project and then you'd have your public hearing on February. 1st, and there are steps after that, but that kind of. Culminates the engagement process and then if you can go back to that. Last slide, so you can see then we integrate the newsletter and set with the final project design and revised budget estimate. The council has that next step next steps for the project on January 4th. That way we can include the construction drawing phase and a newsletter insert to the public before we'd have the public hearing sometime in February. If that's the way this project matured. So, I think that concludes kind of the staff presentation of this presentation and open or send it back to the console for a discussion questions of anybody on the team.

all right eric can i put you on the spot you want to start us off with questions comments feedback so uh and for our audience uh this isn't the first time we we've looked at this in fact we all had an opportunity uh one-on-one to to meet with city staff about this uh so my first comment is i see this as the result of All those tours we did, all of the efforts and work that went into looking at the best of what other cities had done and learning from their mistakes. So I see all of the design elements that we talked about. There was a discussion of waiting on the markings inside the building, parking lines, because that became a real hindrance to one city that marked everything out of it. for the gantry crane that Paul Schultz is really gonna enjoy. But all of the design elements here really are the best of what we've seen. And then we talk about a 25-year service life. That's not how long the building's gonna last. It's gonna last a lot longer than that. We're talking about before changes are needed, a big revision to the building. And we've thought that through too. So when that happens, the wall that has to come down, yeah, it has to be removed, but it doesn't materially impact other functional parts of the building. It is just the point from where that expansion takes place. So we're taking those things into account. Little nuance details where fuel and lubricant hoses are because we found out they're in the wrong place in one building and it creates a ton of extra work for that city to have to deal with it so that's a long-winded way to say that i'm really impressed with the level of design work that's going into it it's got all of those things that we kind of collectively decided we wanted now for the building itself we know we need this we know the town has has grown much faster than anybody assumed We've got new development coming in faster than we thought we would. So there's no question of is this a need for the city? It is. So I think expensive delays in not moving forward. I think we are at that point we move forward. Our decision was to make sure that we brought the right team on. It's to make sure that we've got the right staff. I don't want to take the position of engineering this. There are some cost-saving measures here, but the question I asked, is there any functional compromise there? I don't want functional compromises. We are already, surprisingly, less than what we had collectively thought this building was going to cost. so do we take something out and risk altering the design plan for the building because well we thought we could put our thumbprint on it and take 50 000 out i think that's a mistake we're not engineers they're the engineers these are the folks that we have that we trust to tell us what we need um Let's see. What other notes did I have here? I like the use of natural lighting. Solar tubes made a huge difference in those buildings that had them. It's free light once the tubes are in. So let's lean on that. You know, building materials, I want to be sure that we get our 25 plus years. And that's, you know, let's not make a mistake and say, well, we could save 50 grand if we use this other textured design that we spend 150 grand and have to replace in 10 years. I don't want that. Let's see. I'm going to... One other comment. It'll come to me. Maybe I'll add my comments later. So those are my initial thoughts about this. I also know that we're, as you said, we're not at 100%. I said I don't want us buying furniture at Ikea. I want... And that is to say that the things that if you tip the building upside down and fell out of it, let's make sure that those last a long time and keep city staff comfortable to have the things that they need to do the job and enjoy the job while they're there. So we're not at that point yet. I expect we're going to have a lot more conversations as the meetings roll on. I'll shut up. I'll let other people talk.

A couple of questions, and then probably just some feedback to similar to a council member. Uh, Brent, when we were looking at the timelines, I don't see anything with planning commission. Do we engage them at certain stages or. Since this is not a zoning and we're this far into it.

So, like, informally, we've like, we haven't named all those, but like, so the, I think this we're planning to present to the HPC in August, the planning commission in September. We also plan on hitting the fire department, the Carver Business Alliance. Um, from, like, the same presentation, I would say there will be an element that hasn't been fully vetted on. There'll be, like, a formal site plan approval process that we'll take through the planning commission. But that would probably come some time. Like, that would come after. I would say that the project has gone through the public hearing process for the issuance of capital bonds. I think it would be. perceived as presumptuous to take a site plan through planning commission, if it hadn't been officially approved and kind of vetted by the community and city council.

Okay, thank you for answering that. I also had a chance to meet with them. Andrew took time. And so this isn't the first time I've seen some of these slides. Can you go to a slide, it might be on the deck, it might be number 13. That shows what walls you knock out for an expansion.

Sure. All right. So the west wall of vehicle storage where it's that would be. Not necessarily knock out, we would keep those openings and we would probably just expand the building. You can take the precast down and we might program through the 100% design phase. What where we would expand those openings into larger than just the single overhead doors. Um, so that. YOU CAN PASS THROUGH EASIER TO THE ADDITION, BUT THE OTHER THING WE WANT TO CONSIDER IS THEY HAVE TO LIVE, STAFF HAS TO LIVE IN THIS BUILDING WHILE THE EXPANSION IS GOING ON. SO IF WE DON'T HAVE TO DO A BUNCH OF STRUCTURAL AUGMENTATION OF THAT EXISTING WALL WHILE THE EXPANSION IS BEING BUILT, THEY CAN STILL CIRCULATE IN AND OUT OF THE BUILDING AND OPERATE. THEN THE BUILDING IS DONE, THERE'S MINIMAL AUGMENTATION TO THAT WALL, AND VOILA, BUILDING IS EXPANDED. We, so part of the site planning process, and this design development is working with Alec and Aaron from both and make and pushing and pulling this building even 5 or 6 feet 1 direction to fine tune. How does it impact utilities if we go further East or West? What does that do to the cost is. underground costs a lot i'm the architect i want to see stuff above ground so fine-tuning where that goes so that we know we have a 30 and a 50-year building expansion and then still have the site area to be able to circulate around the building and get in and out of those doors and still have yard space for bulk lay down areas and materials so

Thank you. Excellent response. Because I think, too, this reminds me of a model of what we're seeing with school districts. But I think that's just more because of how their funding sources are. But I think it'll be helpful as we get more details to point that out where that is, because a very good narrative is our elementary school here in Carver. 10 years ago, didn't look like it does now. So they had the same thing where it was definitely thought ahead. It was well planned. Um, so they could expand. Um, then I had, uh, I'd like to spend a little time on that slide and, um, just give quick comments. So this is, um, in your deck number 28. Um, and this is more just for council to listen to, this solar array, I could keep it or not. The maintenance bay area, I guess I don't know enough on that, but wow, that's a big chunk of money. The east mezzanine, from what I have learned so far, that's not the best place to have it, like right over a overhead garage door.

It's in between the garage. It's in between. Okay.

It's and then you need additional screen to get to it. That's just it's, that's expensive storage space. But I also know we want this building to be efficient. So that I could really consider taking out from the project. The so I'm now on the fourth one, the alternate alternate exterior finish. I have no desire to spend an extra $76,000 just because it might look a little nicer. I would rather spend less if it's something that is aesthetics. The reduced parking, maybe there's... i don't know enough on what it costs to do now versus later but i don't think we're at a spot where we need to like a little penny pincher it'll look at every little line item um i don't have enough information on reducing the overall vehicle storage knowing that you're at 210 square feet i would be in favor of reducing the bathroom sizes and locker room just because it's my understanding that's typically your largest expense when you take something by square footage so that's what i had for comments on budget um i kind of eric too here i know there's just um so much to this project building um

This won't be the last time that we talk about it. So, Kayla, you want to go?

Yeah, I can go next. I'm really pleased with how this has turned out. I'm glad that we got the space that we did the land that we did, because it's made this process. I think a lot easier for everybody. Nice big plot of flat land has made it easier. My biggest comments are also on. Slide 28, so this is our project cost deduction. I could give or take a solar array. I do not want to see the maintenance bay or the parking area reduced maintenance bay because by reducing the maintenance bay. Yes, that is a big chunk of money, but that is going to severely limit the long term usability of that maintenance space. Especially if we have multiple vehicles down at the same time as the vehicles. Increase in number across the city also, I don't want to see the parking area decrease because we are keep talking about using this as a possible 2nd, polling location and the thought of reducing parking when the public is going to need to have access to it for polling. Especially when there's no alternate parking. You know, you think about downtown, you can park a couple of blocks away from City Hall. That's not a big deal. This is kind of in the middle of nowhere and there's not safe parking alternatives for the public. So those are two areas I wouldn't want to cut. The East mezzanine and the vehicle storage conversations that I've had with staff sounds like that's probably a reasonable place to make a cut. Keep the footings in place so we can add it later if we need to. But the actual mezzanine itself seems like a reasonable cut. And I don't want to see reduction in the vehicle storage area because that's literally why we're here. So those are my opinions on the cost deductions. Thank you. Kristen?

Sure. So as long as we're on this slide, and then I'll just back up to the other things that I had. So when I'm looking at this for budgeting, so the solar array, I guess, unless I have forgotten we've had this information in front of us, I don't have enough information on ROI for the solar to know whether it's going to be worthwhile to have it or not. So before I could make any choice on that, I would really need that information about how many years it's going to take to pay ourselves back all the expectations of having solar. Reducing the maintenance bay, keep that in. Removing that east mezzanine, I agree. And I think with some conversations we've had with Andrew that maybe that's something we can forego. So I would be for taking that mezzanine out. The alternate exterior finish, again, I don't know what that means. Is that coming down from what we saw in here or is this the, this is the...

It would be coming down from coming down.

I would be interested to see what that is to see what that material is. Um. You know, I, Eric, I know you said that, you know, 50,000 here, but all those 50 thousands add up eventually. So, um. I am a question mark on the exterior finish. I think that's something I'd like to see a little bit more what that would look like. I don't want to reduce the parking area even long before we may have elections up there. We are looking at, I mean, we're talking about having other cities come and doing trainings and having different meetings there. So I don't think there's any reason to reduce the parking area. We're good on that one. And we are also good on the overall vehicle storage area.

Just while Andrew Cooper is here, Andrew, would you mind just giving the council a kind of a detail between what's it like the clay tile and then this system and what that is and and kind of your perspective on it just to give them a line of sight to that. Thank you.

Yeah, so what you're seeing represented here and these images is a clay tile. So it's a mechanically fastened. It's screwed on to the wall on a substrate like plywood or whatever. And then there's an exterior insulation to give us our thermal wall performance. If this is an abbreviation for exterior insulation finish system, and it's essentially. polystyrene, beadboard, insulation, glued to the wall, then finished with an acrylic stucco-like texture. It's not stucco. Stucco is plaster. It's a little high horror, more per square foot. Ephus has a polymer inlay that gives it some rigidity. can get the same color in various durable applications. So around the entryway, for example, you would do something that can't get kicked in. But above the windows, you might do something that is not as robust of the coating because hail could still hit it and not leave a dent, but no one's going up to 14 feet in the air with a baseball bat and trying to kick it. It is painted. So it is a painted finish. You can get pre-mixed colors, but essentially it's pre-mixed with paint. So it is, there is a, and there are also sealant joints in it. So there are some maintenance issues with it, but that affords you a less cost per square foot on the onset. So there, it's not, there are EFIS buildings that are, have the EFIS on them for 25 and 30 years. So I have no, I have no qualms saying that it would still last beyond The debt service anticipation and that goal, but it will require. More maintenance that's the same with the clay tile. There's still maintenance involved. There's a visual inspection. There's still some sealant joints, but it is more of a rain screen type product. So you can allow water to get behind it and it will dry out. We cannot allow water to get behind. So there's just there's some detailing issues there, too.

That's the cheaper one, though.

If this would be the cheapest option.

OK, I might like to take a look at that just to see the difference.

So that was one of the questions I asked. And I, you know, I know, Courtney, you're going to talk next.

Actually, I'm not finished. So I'll be. No, go ahead. Finish your question, though.

Well, the comment about every $50,000 counts, you kind of hit me with that. Every $50,000 counts. But I want to be really careful we don't make $50,000 mistakes. I asked if there's any functional compromise in some of these things. And I want to be sure that we understand that before we start directing making cuts. When it comes to solar arrays, solar array is all about ROI. If we're going to not get that back for 25 years, it doesn't make sense to do that. I mean, great, we can advertise that we have clean energy, but the decision will be if there's an ROI to do it. I have some personal experience with this now, and it's impacted my decision about I don't mean to go into a story about it, but it was a dramatic ROI for me in what I have. I think we've had those conversations. We'll get that answer. I'm not going to support something that doesn't have that. But the worry I have now is that we start making engineering decisions here that we haven't gotten to a point that we're qualified to do that. I don't want to give some direction. Let's scale back. 1 of these things, because we think it might save some money when really it doesn't. I just, I don't think we're at a point to be able to do that, but thank you. Sorry to interrupt.

You're fine, Eric. And we may have to agree to disagree a tad on that 1. Again, I'm not totally opposed to the solar. I just don't have any idea what that is, Eric. So, once I have that information, then I can. Very well before it, when it comes to the exterior, I mean, we've talked about this. So. The only ones I'm looking at right now for myself that I would want to be removed and deducted from here would be the East mezzanine and then possibly that exterior finish. I know Lori had mentioned it too. I think it's worth taking a look at. It's $77,000 to see what we're getting and to see what that looks like in the end. Is it... going to be more work in the end than it's worth saving $77,000 on. Maybe it's not. But again, this is the time that I think we've got the shot to look at it. So we might as well take a look at it. For the budget or the deduction scenarios, I am finished with that one. Can we go back to the one labeled office plan? So I will stay really close to 30,000 here for you, Courtney. I did have one question. When we visited the city of Chanhassen, they had talked about in the reception area that it was very, very loud because they did not have any walls in case behind them. the reception when you have the bullpen and guys who come up and women who come in from using heavy equipment, right? So really loud stuff going on. But so I don't know if that was thought about now. We don't have maybe a specific person sitting at reception right now, but we may in the future. So is this built that we could encase that into its own almost little office there at some point? Because, I mean, that was one thing I really took away from Chan is that that admin and that front desk person just said it was impossibly loud in there from that point.

Yeah, Chanhassen's layout is more of the receptionist backing up to the entirety of the open office, where what's nice about this particular layout is you come in through that vestibule and then that window at that built-in desk. There's that wall immediately behind them that faces the enclosed offices, so kind of a document work area. And where the furniture is laying out, it's not on this plan because we're still talking about what the furniture is, is almost entirely in that east-west rectangle. So all of that noise is... are kind of around the corner and not right behind them so there are and there's also um acoustical wall treatments and ceiling treatments that are easily more easily manipulated than hard wall construction so we're looking at trying to keep something that is as open as possible to facilitate future growth so if there are some workstations that need to bleed a little further south into this plan that there's not this wall that has to be demolished to accommodate that. So we're probably going to look at furniture options to help mitigate that acoustic propagation and make sure that we're making that as quiet up front as possible.

Okay. And then I know as we look up into the green area there, where we've got a lot of big space there that we have the cubicles planned, but we also have now the workspaces in the middle, in the blue part. Would it be... Something to think about, whether we put another office there or something. It just seems like a lot of open space, and I'm glad to have workspaces for anybody, any of the employees who come in. It just seems a little wasted right behind those bathrooms there.

To the north of the break.

I can speak to that. So there was an earlier version that had offices there, and we just thought – We can add those later. But frankly, kind of to the vehicle striping piece, they might put it in a different location, but we know like day one, we don't need offices. So the design was like, let's put the space there. We have the box and then you can be as flexible as you need to in the future based on whatever need that is.

Okay, perfect. That just seemed like an open space and that explains that. The only... Other one I have right now is actually for staff. So when we have the fire department open house, we usually clear out the bays in the public works so that we can have tables and different things set up. I would really love to see those bays full as it is on a daily basis. I think it's going to be something really visually strong for residents who come in to see like, nope, we didn't just take everything out and we have all this big open space. They're going to walk in and see everything. This is what this place is filled with every day. So I think that, um, for staff, I would like to see the only thing that was like.

You've been to the fire department on the house and public services side, like, that area is used. That's where. The city sets up this is where we're going to literally be talking about this project. It's where kids can put their names on the plow, on the plow truck, draw on the plow truck. It's where you get your cookies.

Well, the cookies can be outside or something under a tent. I'll borrow my pop-up tent to the city.

Sure. But when it rains, I get it. I said the exact same thing. And I think there are some ways that we can make it. I advocated for instead having every single vehicle that we own in the parking lot and back and behind the...

I would rather see having things really in there that are... Appropriate to this this rather than have the HPC table and I'm just throwing things out here a Planning Commission table all this I would rather see as many of the vehicles as we normally have in there as we can With this being the mainstay of that room

So parent council member, if I might comment on that, just I'm wondering if it would be an opportunity to have a really good drone video of that space occupy that we can play during that event, because there are so many people that come to that. It's amazing. I was shocked last year there. And people say, yeah, a lot of people are going to come in. I didn't believe them until I saw it. And it was amazing. And I think it would be a really good opportunity to have that kind of like in a date in the life drone shot that you see.

I don't think that's a terrible idea at all.

So we could do that maybe before October and see what you think.

Yeah. But I just I don't know that people are going to sit and watch that as much as if they walk into a building that they're going to be like, oh, it's trucks. Oh, it's trucks. And everything is smashed in here. Right. If it's as visually strong as that. But that's my two cents on that one.

So, OK. Okay. Let's see. I have all kinds of thoughts and they're all over the place. Let's see. I know everybody has a lot of questions about solar. For me, the question is kind of like, if we have this amount of a solar array, what does that mean in terms of how much of this building are we going to be able to power? Is it 40%? Is it 80%? That study mirror will come in the...

Up to 100% design drawing. So right now our engineering electrically is just kind of generally scoping design loads to help facilitate discussions with the utility. There will be an energy model. So that's not just thermal performance. It's also total electrical load performance to know, okay, what is the solar size up here right now? 40 KW is what we budgeted, correct? So a 40 KW, what can that really get for us? And then that will determine your ROI based on the utility rates and whatnot.

And I didn't expect you to have an answer tonight, but just what's possible.

There's enough floating around here. I could probably answer your question.

don't because we'll hold you to it um okay um the parking i think is good i kind of echo some of what i think it was kayla said of like i'm borderline concerned that there isn't enough parking or like i don't see i want to make sure that we have a mind for expansion of the parking area too when that becomes a parking area will we be able to get a hundred cars in there for parking and That's grossly overbuilding it probably for two days of the year, maybe three. But voting is in August when it can be real, real hot. And it's in November when it can be pretty cold. So I just want to make sure because they're going on. Um, county road 11 just won't be an option for parking and even like having people park across the street and walk over is not something that we want to see either. So I just want to kind of keep that in mind. Um, as far as the storage spaces in kind of the office area. Is there enough storage there? Are we confident that we won't need any more. Storage for kind of office kind of stuff. Do we have an abundance of need?

here at City Hall that we would need to push that way I think one thing that's useful this industry is moving paperless a little bit so you know we're not having I think it was in Chanhassen actually they had like a planned room I don't think that's a need that exists in this industry anymore. But you do want some of those storage spaces. So as things pile up or whatever, you can get them out of mind, but not have too much storage where it gets forgotten about for 20 years.

Okay, um, we're in all that green space there, right? Um, so, Lori, I wanted to address, um, I don't think that cuts to bathrooms or locker rooms are on the table. It's the center of the building and it would have to, I am not the engineer nor I'm an architect, but it would have to rejigger the entire building. So I. Do not want to entertain that as an option. Let's see.

I think. If I could build off of that for a second. I just want to point out that when we were in Chanhassen. I don't know if the architect told me this. Or if a member of the Chanhassen staff did. But I was told. That for long term. Like 30 year cost savings. You should over build. Your bathrooms and locker rooms. Because it is. infinitely more expensive to retrofit and increase bathroom space than it is to just build it in in the first place council member i think you heard that at every facility She wasn't with us on the bus trip.

But yes. Okay. I think that this is smart. We're talking about expansion and we're talking about expansion potential in 50 years. And we're talking about bonding for this for 25 years and having it be large enough to last us for 25 years. I'm going to argue that this is going to last us for at least 30, if not 40 or 50 years. Cause just knowing like we are 37,000 square feet short and we are absolutely maximizing our space right now. I would imagine, but kind of for a lot of the same reasons, except for the surprise growth that the future folks who are sitting in these seats will do the exact same thing. So Brent talked about it a lot that this is going to be, you know, we have 7 500 people right now who as a members of this community will all play a role in paying for this but that portion of the pie that piece of the pie is only going to get smaller as we're doing more and more residential and commercial and industrial growth we have summerfield we have the enclave that's 3 000 rooftops right there at a minimum so i think um And while these numbers are pretty big, I think that this is a good time to do this project, not only because of the need, but also because of our growth that we're experiencing, that we're anticipating. And who knows what's just right around the corner in six weeks, six months, or six years from now. um i think this feels right size for carver and what really concerns me is the cost of waiting for this so um can we go to um can i go to that slide please where we were talking about what the cost estimates were when it was 35 million versus the tax impact and then i think it's 29 So I appreciate us wanting to whittle this down. And maybe we don't need the East mezzanine. But I think, again, like I don't want to rob Peter to pay Paul kind of to a different way of saying what Eric was saying in terms of cutting out $100,000 for a facade finish. And then having to paint it every summer or having to seal the cracks in the joints. I also kind of wanted to point out here that going down $2 million in cost estimates on an average home is what? A $12, $8 a year difference, right? Right can you check my mail? You know, like, it's not, it's not significant. So we're going from 428. To 436, that is 8 dollars a year. So, I also want to keep that in mind, like, I appreciate having the options of what we can kind of cut from this. But what I see on that slide slide 28. Taking the last line out of vehicle storage space is $1 million roughly if you add it all together. So I also... Do believe that throughout this process, I hope that we're going to continue to whittle away. We'll figure out kind of what we need in terms of contingency. Um, and I do think that we will not be building a 33Million dollar building when this is all said and done. Um, but I don't know that it's because we're taking out 76,792 dollars for a finish. option. So I just want to be really careful. I'm happy to take a look at what they look like. But I want to be mindful of the ripple effects or the unintended consequences of making a penny wise but pound foolish decision for the long run. I think that that is it for me. Anyone who has thought about what they forgot their first time around that wants another bite of the apple?

at you, Eric. I don't have anything else to add.

Everyone's comments are useful.

Thank you for all of the work. I know we'll be working on this for a long time but I'm really happy to see what this has turned into from those initial site surveys and I'm excited about the future this brings Carver this allows us to support Summer Gate and whatever comes next and whatever comes next and we're this is the right time to do it well it looks like you have something else I do go ahead um

And this helps you with this dialogue. And for me, it was some reminders, too, of what I've been able to talk to Andrew about. And Brent was present, too. Solar, definitely we need more information, the ROI. And I remember the conversation, too. We were wishing there was grant money, but I think we're just a little late. I think that trend has passed. I don't recall. But that would be helpful to look into, ROI, and if there's any grant money. Right. Okay. The maintenance bay area, I think now that I understand more what the area is used for, I also vision this new space to be so that we can just be good and we can be great stewards of our equipment, that we can fix our own things. Andrew hears me say this a lot, that we can fabricate, cut, sharpen, whatever. So I don't want to lose any of that. I want us to be able to take care of the things that we've been purchasing. And Yeah, the layout's great. And when we say we want the best, I'd want to be clear too, it's just as being the most efficient for the workflow that these teams are asked to do. That it be things that we wouldn't foresee, like what is truly going to be maintenance-free or what can we anticipate extra maintenance costs. So looking to you guys for that advice. And then parking... Silly me, I forgot what a busy road, and that it would be alternate for polling. So, yeah, do not reduce the parking space, please. Anne, okay, okay, you're going to really like this one. I solved the furniture problem.

It's not a problem. It's not a problem.

We're not talking about furniture. No. May 2027, Carver cleanup days. We're going to get credenzas. Okay.

Anybody else have any comments? Save us, Christy.

Lorena, how are you about the East Mezzanine then? I think that was the one that was hanging out there. Yeah. Because. Yeah, I guess. I guess. That was the one that when Andrew had said that.

That would fit better in future. Okay. Yep.

Expansion, I think I'm hearing multiple times. East mess doesn't mean removal.

Well, I would just say, no, we're not asking the council to make any choices tonight. We'll bring this back to your August 3rd work session and you can come with that. I think we'd ask Tara and or tell if they could do a take off and. Anticipated maintenance costs to the finishes over 25 year period and you can include that in your calculus. As Andrew Cooper said, I can't. give you, like, a total ROI on solar, but maybe some projections and maybe some information from Minnesota Valley Electric, something to kind of, like, give you.

Just some kind of information. Yeah. Because otherwise I can't, I'm not against it, but I'm not for it because I just, I can't justify the behind of it.

I mean, I think the biggest thing is, like, the big crumbs, so if, like, the East mezzanine was going to come out, Like, that's an adjustment that we'd make to the plans before sending that out to for public consumption. Some of these. Maybe, like, like, the solar array might be something. That, like, we'd be noted, but. You know, it could be like a thumbs up or thumbs down when we do a check in with the hotel and Tara teams in November. When construction drawings are kind of working their way through, is that accurate?

I can commit my engineer right now, Brent, to getting at least a range on the ROI. Okay. Because we do thumbnails, but, you know, to say it's 7.8 versus 5.2 years, I wouldn't be prepared to do something at that 7 to 10, 10 to 15 type of stuff. That would be doable. Okay.

I think it's important though, Brent, for you as staff and then also our contracted folks to know where the council is heading, right? So I think you've heard some of where we're heading, where we kind of, most of us fall. So I think it's still, although it's, you know, a long night and we're talking, but it's, I think it's a good place that we needed to start at the way we went tonight.

Anything else? Okay. I echo Eric's. Thank you, Jordan. Thank you for coming. Appreciate all your feedback tonight. But seriously, thank you all so much. I'm not sure that there's a single individual in this room who has not touched this project in 1 way or the other. And, like, even just the meeting agenda placement of this to be able to devote the last hour and 45 minutes almost exclusively to this topic has been great. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

My intention wasn't to just interrupt. If the council said tonight we want, for example, the East Byzantine out, you're welcome to do that. We can take that feedback. We don't need to wait to the third. I just wanted to just reinforce you're not. We don't have it scheduled for you to have to make that choice tonight.

I'd like to see it just come out. I think there was enough of us up here, but Mayor Johnson, you'll have to take that call. Okay.

I could go either way. If we're not going to delay anything by not telling you officially until two weeks from now, then I'm fine.

We're going to tell you in two weeks. It could stay in or come out up until the day you award contracts.

We're going to tell you. If you want to take it out tomorrow, that's probably just fine.

Are we at a point, though, that enough of the council members have kind of said that that would.

Should go, you said, take it out, take it out.

So I'd like to take it out. I'm sorry to hear what you said. I said, take it out. You said, take it out. Yeah.

Even though I, I would like to pause and just. Get a little feedback, maybe there's something where. It would be ridiculous to do this in the future.

here if we're thinking about taking that why was it did why didn't even reach this point having it there if we didn't need it I'm confused Andrew tell me why first place then

I think it's an opportunity to maximize space, right? So if you, I mean, we toured a building that had it, so it was an option to have in the building. If you told me today we're not going to have it, I'd be fine with me. I think not having it in that space, especially in the first 15 years that we're going to use that building, you're not going to utilize that storage space. And if you do, you're storing stuff that you should probably get rid of anyways. I think not having it in that space also frees up some flexibility in traffic movements inside the garage that we can utilize before we start striping and start doing all these things. So.

I would recommend not having it in the plans that I would have recommended it not be part of the project not have to make a decision on it because really I'm trusting that we have you all to tell us that you vetted this and this is what we need and this is what we don't because every $50,000 matters. So if you are telling me that we're not going to have regrets, we're not making a $600,000 mistake because we're cutting out or we're talking about the. The mezzanine, the mezzanine, the 287. If we're not making a $600,000 mistake by taking this out now, well, then, of course, I would support that. So, I'm in line then.

All right. So, you can take it out now. Okay. Do you have what you need from us?

Do you have what you need from us?

Okay. All right. Thank you all. Sounds like we'll maybe see you in another couple of weeks. Okay. Fantastic. Okay. Do we have any monthly reports this evening? Okay. Let's see. Let's do council member updates. Kayla, I started from my left a lot. Do you want to start? No, I'm happy to go first.

And the answer is no, I don't have anything. You had your big chance.

We had HPC meeting last Tuesday. And so we got to meet the new owner of the smoke shop over here. So Holly came in. Um, to have his sign, and I should say 2 signs that his, uh, overhanging sign and then the 1 of that's up against the building approved. It was very nice to meet him and, um, it's going to look very, very nice, but it's done.

So. No updates, Eric.

No, I don't have an update.

Okay.

Do I have an update?

I don't know. You may sound like you're having an eye on us if you should say something.

No, I don't have an update. I'm good.

Okay. My updates. On July 15th, I presented at the Lions Club meeting. I get invited there about every other year or so and just kind of did a state of the city and let them know what was going on in our community. That same night, the Lower Minnesota River Watershed District had a meeting here where they used our space just right across the hall. And I gave them an update about... our levy improvement project. So if you loved Erin Schmidt's presentation from our work session a few weeks ago, you would have really enjoyed this presentation because it was the same thing. But they were very supportive, very interested, and very excited about the progress that we're making on that. After that meeting, it was still about a million degrees, probably this time of night when our meeting got out, but we went for a walk along the levee. I took them out on the levee and kind of showed them the pictures that they had seen in renderings. And then they also wanted to check out the Merriam Junction Trail Bridge. So it was great having them in town and getting their feedback. Last Friday, there was a groundbreaking at Summerfield. As you know, that's not a done deal yet. But they have their grading permit, and they wanted to do the groundbreaking before they started moving dirt. And then last Saturday was the bus rodeo at Carver Station, which was pretty cool. I don't know if you had an opportunity to go there, but I brought my nephews. And even in their teeny angsty phase, I think they thought it was pretty cool to watch a big bus, like, kind of do the serpentine through cones and try to do this – narrowing like corridor where they're trying not to hit any of the pins off of the like at speed and like one guy when we were right there like didn't make it didn't really run the needle um which it was just it was really fun to see lots of different exercises that they were doing backing up turning around parking oh was sandra bullock there at speed

I'm sorry I had to.

We have like the er button. Yeah, like an ejection button. Okay. All right. It's late. I will entertain a motion to adjourn.

I'll make a motion to adjourn.

Motion by Council Member Pershman. I'll second. Second by Conrad. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, same sign. Motion passes. Good evening.