City Council - Regular Meeting

Good, because I sat in her seat.

I don't usually sit on this side either. No. It feels weird.

It does feel weird. You're sitting here, Lori's over here.

Yep. Do you want to change?

And then Brent's right there. No, we're good. There's no assigned seating.

Unless Aaron is here.

If I had caught on that side, like, I'm sorry, what am I doing?

It's a big deal to Aaron when you see him there.

And Eric's always off in, like, a corner by himself over there. He's convinced he's not important enough to sit at the big kids table. I think he's just waiting. He's lying in wait over there. That's it.

Are there any trees that are going in about around the post office? Or is that post office property? I mean, we took them down, but...

In the boulevard, it's a post office property. So they'd have to put them back. Put them back.

Okay. So not likely. Just like so. Fair, yeah. Especially compared to the rest of downtown.

They at least cut them down. Oh. They were, like, 80 tall.

Yeah, River Rock, unfortunately, you still have to weed it. Just spray it.

Andrew says spray it.

It just doesn't look like the rest of downtown. The building does, but the rest of the property doesn't.

Did they put the rock in last year?

It doesn't look bad by the building from those big ugly shrubs that were over there catching garbage. But now that we've got whatever's on this side, on this side would be nice.

All right. It is 530. I will call the work session to order for June 15th, 2026. Up first, the certified levy project design review, Mr. Hummer and Mr. Nelson. Welcome.

Well, it's great to be here.

It's always great to see you because I know we're going to talk about the levy when I see you in power.

Yeah, we're getting closer too. Good. Let's see if it was working a minute ago. There we go. All right, so I think our last meeting you tasked us with going back and see if we can make some changes to it. So we have gone through and done a number of modifications to try to reduce the cost a little bit. Also some things I think add more functionality to it as well. So budget funding update, current lobby renderings, and then the next step. So we were able to trim out of the Spring Creek segment about $310,000. We also think there's probably a little more in that east segment with the riprap that was placed at the Merriam Junction. I think there's quite a bit extra there that we're currently having our bids to, but we haven't had a chance to censor or quantify that. We'll be doing that in a couple weeks, so it's probably another $10,000 to $20,000 there that we can reserve. This is how we were able to get to those savings. The flood limit, the flood walls, are going to come up just past, just to City Hall before we had them estimated coming up further. We don't need them to come all the way up to 4th. So we're pulling those up a little bit short on that.

So just past the south end of the building?

Yep, just past the south end of the building. And then we reduced the flat work in the back. Specifically, I think the biggest change you'll see is behind City Hall. That flat work there has been eliminated from the plans. We also eliminated the pedestrian level lighting. We had quite an extensive lighting plan back there. We're going to be able to use the mask lighting from the streets and the bridge crossings to kind of light that interior segment from there. Landscaping and planting reductions is about 20,000. With some of the changes we did on the flat work and some of the grade changes that Jonathan will go through here, allowed us to eliminate a significant amount of the ornamental railing pieces to it. Uh, and then the, there was a sheet pile wall at, um, uh, main street to the river that was interior. And we were able to find a way to eliminate that and give it more of a natural look as opposed to using that sheet pile. Um, so that was about 40,000. And then we had some temporary sheeting in there in a few locations for about $60,000 in savings that we're able to do. So that's a total of $310,000. So where we're at today, we have a total estimate of about 15,440,000. So additional funds not identified that remain are about 2.7 million. So those can be either DNR funds, other allocations from state or federal sources, city stormwater funds. So there is still that additional funding. And included in there is the contingency as well. So, Jonathan, do you want to talk through these?

Yeah, I can do that. Yeah, so Todd kind of went through the buckets of kind of where we trimmed some of the funds out. But kind of some of the key things you'll notice here are, you know, we took out the colored concrete, so we kind of simplified the paving. So that was kind of a fairly large expense, that addition for the colored concrete. And then what... what Todd was just circling there behind city hall. You know, we previously had all that as hardscape as well. Um, and we removed that and pulled the extents further east. So that eliminated a lot of, um, wall costs and, and, uh, paving costs in that area as well. Um, beyond that, the big things were, uh, the lighting, uh, as Todd mentioned. So we're planning on having just the street lights along third street and then potential for like a light to be placed on the city hall building in that back corner. Um, if additional lighting is needed in that area, uh, just for security. So, um, really streamlining the electrical and lighting component, um, allowed us to shave off a good amount as well.

Are we losing any programmed functionality where it's going from hardscape just to turf?

Behind City Hall, I think the programming is different, right? I think that was kind of the intent is that, one, it sounds like it wasn't really needed. And there's plenty of plaza space further east if you did want to program that space. Hold on just a second.

We good? So that's not broadcasting on the images and broadcasting. It's getting the green screen. So... I could pull up the slides and broadcast from my computer.

While you're doing it, just a little kind of technical piece behind City Hall. So there's a transformer that's kind of near the end of the steps on the west side of the building. essentially have to be rotated 90 degrees and kind of put parallel or perpendicular to the building. So that would have blocked really any plaza space, if you will. Anyway, actually there's two transformers we're trying to locate. Andrew and I met with Luke and electricians and Excel on Friday and just kind of walked that, understanding that a bunch of the poles and then the individual private services all need to be underground in that area. So kind of make room for infrastructure is kind of what we need to do there. So, uh, I would offer that the kind of the quote unquote plaza area behind city hall, uh, probably would have been cut out or at least re-imagined in some significant way, regardless of the situation that we're in. Okay.

I'm just gonna do something different here, quick.

Is that the transformer thing? Yes. Got all these little things. The green here.

Okay. They put it right in the way.

and by they that was us project so this is it you guys were curious so that's oh that big box that's good which which side are you on like that one right the plan yeah that one okay yeah um yeah so i think that pretty much covers this block um beyond that kind of the the design and functionality kind of remains intact um so primarily that aesthetic and lighting modifications there. So looking at the renderings, this is kind of an updated version of the view kind of from that back corner of City Hall there, looking towards 3rd Street.

Can you show the thing that says we're on that piece, keep on that page for a minute? We talked a lot about including like Andrew, that planting area, so that shows like a full bloom, but the base is more wood chips, right?

Yeah, it'd be like a planting bed with wood chips and perennials and shrubs. And that saves significantly from what we had previously. Yeah, I think there's some savings there. And we talked, you know, about, you know, is it lawn or is it planting bed? And just the concerns about having unirrigated lawn and what the maintenance looked like for that. So planting bed, but using kind of those low maintenance, drought tolerant species in there.

And we wouldn't salt back there, so we don't have to worry about anything that's salt hardy.

Right. And that's one of the areas we also eliminated some of the decorative fencing there. We were able to play with the grades a little bit and that center piece at the end there had railing on it previously. I think we had that ducking down. So some of the changes that we've made in the elevations on the wall height, on the grades here, I think made it eliminate that decorative railing.

Is that like a bench? I mean, is that meant to be a bench?

It's a, it's a seat wall. So to the right of that wall, it stays up. So if you go to the next view, actually, you can kind of see it better. So that's kind of, that's that wall there. So the ramp comes down in the middle and then it stays elevated on the top side there.

And then when it floods, those railings along Spring Creek come out and the stop walls go in?

They stay in there. The stop logs get added though on the interior side, so the pedestrian side. Um, okay. And then, uh, so this is the block from, uh, main to third, um, and kind of similar modifications were made in this block. Um, we also kind of reduced that upper Plaza space, uh, the size of that a little bit. Um, so it was quite a bit larger previously, and that allowed us to kind of widen out that interior planting bed there between the two walkways. And then we can kind of grade that up and reduce kind of the overall amount of railing again in this segment that we need. Because some of those upper portions then don't need railing on that side.

So if we were looking to save more money in this area, where the number six is, I know there's stairs kind of by the number 12 there. And I'm sure for ADA reasons you've got that area behind there because we would need it if we have the stairs. Can we, what if we were to eliminate six and have that be grass also, but take the stairs out and have it just kind of ramp up and ramp back down. And then you wouldn't have all that concrete behind there.

Yeah. Where you have the stair work. It gets so high on the stair end down towards main.

Okay.

Um, that you'd need a really long ramp, really long sidewalk to get up to that elevation.

And think of it, so we're saying plaza, but it's really a service drive for public services vehicles.

Well, if they can come in on side 12 on this side, they could, if it looked the same on the other side, the vehicle could drive right up along there. But if you're saying the grades are too steep.

Well, and if we go to the, maybe we go forward to the perspectives of the next few slides here. Um, so go to the next one maybe. So this is kind of the view from Maine looking at that space. So if we didn't have those stairs, that upper plaza space, you'd have a really long walk going up and then you'd be kind of transitioning from that eight and a half foot high wall, basically the entire block. So that wall is going to be much higher. You're not going to be able to see out to the creek. So that was the intent with that raised space.

And then the ramp does make everything ADA, but also easily for city vehicles to come in and offload the... planks when we need to get in and put them up for the plane. How wide is the right hand side?

I can't remember if it's 10 or 12 feet. It's probably 12 for a vehicle. Yeah.

And Andrew, what do you need to get through with any vehicles? Probably 10 to 12.

Whatever the truck is pushing.

Whatever they just said, that's what it is.

Do 10 if you want tire marks on everything.

Yeah, a little bit of water. We do not. We've seen some of the spots where the trails get tight and stuff where it all gets rutted up.

And then we also added the kiosk site here. This is one of the provisions of SHPO that they required us to put a kiosk in here. We're working on that with the verbiage and what it might look like. It's great. Good thought work.

Can you go back a slide? All of the, like, oh, I'm sorry, maybe one more slide. All of the, like, What looked like tree watermarks. Are those existing trees that are in there?

Those are not.

Okay. Tell me what those are.

Those are new? New trees.

Okay. Is there any issue? I know like on the other parts of the levee we're going to have to do, what is it?

15 feet from the clear. Because we have the wall here, all these trees are outside that 15 foot.

Okay. Okay. I wonder aloud if that would cause, if we're gonna be planting new trees along there, if that would cause resident confusion of why are trees okay here, but I can't put one in my yard right on the toe of the levee.

Yeah, because this is 15 feet off of what would be- Understood, I just- It'd be easy to explain to them.

Okay, I just don't want it to cause any heartburn down the road.

Yeah, that's a good point. I think they are important to have, though, just for future shade.

And to kind of break up the walls and things like that as well.

We're literally just lamenting the loss of the trees that they lost.

So yeah, I mean, we can flip through those other perspectives again. Yeah, the other piece that we modified here was that first segment to the left of the water tower logo there. That was previously kind of an accent wall that said Spring Creek in kind of a decorative fashion. So it's kind of just an added artistic element there. So we swapped that out for more of the standard segment. Kind of opens it up a little bit, the views to the creek, and also...

I actually like this better.

Yeah, reduces some cost to you. doesn't look so prison hard to me yeah and then this is a segment from maine to the river under the ped bridge um just kind of reflecting the modified design here there had previously been with some sheet pile wall yep and kind of where the rip rap is in there showing was sheet pile before so we've gone with kind of that stream

theme through here again, up a ways and then we flatten it out to three to one so that it's maintainable in there below the, behind the wall and we can get in for maintenance underneath the bridge on both sides of the creek.

Nothing happens to the bridge?

It stays exactly where it's at? It stays exactly where it's at. So from a schedule perspective, Final design, we've been working on that. Now we're getting close to writing specifications and getting close. August, we're hoping that we'll have all the easements acquired through the condemnation process. We'll have the rights to those. There are some things in that easement acquisition. I think we're gonna be good. We've got signatures on all parcels, so we should be able to get through that process without any actual condemnation proceedings. Um, but there is a little risk if we have to go to condemnation proceedings, um, how long that actually takes and being able to close that out. We'll come back and talk to risk if we get there, but I don't, I don't perceive us having to go there. Um, August 17th, we're looking for council's approval plan and authorizing the bidding of the project. That's pretty exciting. Actually, it's been a long time coming. Um, September 21st also considers award for bid and construction. beginning in October. So that would be a fantastic schedule for us to keep. I would say there are still risks to the schedule and those risks include receiving all of the reviews and permitting from the agencies. So there could be some things that come along. I will say the good thing is we've already got responses on our Clomar application from FEMA. So we're able to make any revisions to the plans right now. So we're in the process of doing that. And there hasn't been anything substantive. I would say that's going to make a big cost change to what we're proposing at this point. So we'll continue to work through that process. And then we're looking at after it's completed in 2029, going for the letter of macro vision to remove all the insurance requirements behind the levy. And that could take time depending on how sticky FEMA gets with it, but hopefully they've seen the plans and they shouldn't tell us anything that's sticking out. But it is a process and as a federal process it does take a long time.

With construction in October, what does that look like with kind of a late fall winter season construction start?

Well, we have met with two countries. We met with Ames, and we also met with SM Hensches and just talked about what we're thinking about for some of the construction techniques and timing and various risks to the construction schedule. Very good meetings. They had some good ideas and they liked the way that we had approached it. Actually, that's perfect for being able to do Spring Creek. It lowers the risk for the contractors to do it over the winter months. Um, because they don't want to have a rainfall on spring Creek while they're out there trying to build that Creek and some of the levy is gone and the time that they're doing it and being able to deal with smaller flows and get those around their construction site. So there is some complications there. So they're, they're actually pretty excited. We'll be able to get in there. First, first part of the project, try to get that done over the winter months. Great.

And then we know that the third street bridge. demonstrated to us that the soils are pretty crummy along that area. And we learned a lot through that process and all of those construction techniques are going to be incorporated into this project.

Absolutely. That's one of the things that we changed. We're doing a tub wall design. So you'll see them build out there a U shape and we're going to build the stream inside that U. So it doesn't require us to drive any piling for construction. The other thing it also does is that it absolutely stops infiltration of water from the Spring Creek area through the levee and into the buildings like we've seen in the past in that last flood event. So with just a soil levee there, we wouldn't still have those risks, so it keeps that water inside that tunnel warm. So it should actually reduce our risk of infiltration and having to pump from the backside of the levee.

Any other questions?

I have a general cost question. So we're three million over. We've saved 10% of that $3 million through the work you've done, and I think it looks good. When this is such a large-scale, lengthy project, what rate of inflation do you build into that? I mean, sufficient to get us to 2035, where we don't have another $3 million cost overrun? Is that part of your process of building in the cost to take us through 2029?

Well, the, the costs that we're, we'll get it will be the actual cost for bidding. And so those should hold during the length of the contract.

There's nothing that will be variable.

The only thing that is variable and MnDOT allows is if there is some escalation in fuel costs. So let's say that diesel goes from $5 to $12, then there is some allowable for a change in conditions that are under the contractor for consideration. And we've had to deal with that in the past years. But the rest of it, they should be able to hold to their requirements. Okay. Yeah. The only other risk is if there's an increase in quantities or a decrease in quantities. That is significant. But I don't foresee that on this particular project.

Just out of curiosity, since we're at $5 for diesel, is that what this is built around? Well, it'll be whatever it is when we get to a meeting. Okay. All right.

Yeah. Todd, can you speak to how you you to schedule alternates for this project in light of our current budget?

Yep. So what we propose to do is to bid the project as Spring Creek and the area to the east all the way up to Casey's as the base bid. So that would be the bid that we want to absolutely get built. And then the alternate one would be the work to the west and then we'll see where the project budget comes in and then we can see WHERE WE'RE AT ON WHAT'S THE REMAINING OF THE CONTINGENCY, WHAT OTHER SOURCES DO WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO FILL THAT GAP. WE'LL ACTUALLY HAVE REAL NUMBERS AT THAT POINT.

I LIKE IT.

I LIKE IT.

ONE OF THE THINGS FROM A STAFF PERSPECTIVE THAT WE NEED IS IF THERE'S CONSENSUS FROM THE COUNCIL ON THIS DESIGN, THEN WE WOULD PUSH THIS OUT AND ENGAGEMENT newsletter, website, et cetera, resident mailers as this is kind of the final design, probably program one more, collective, I'm not sure what it would be if it's a virtual open house or a physical open house. Just wanted to make sure there's consensus around the design and the cost related to the project.

Do we want any displays at City Hall for folks to look at?

Yep, we can do that too.

I'm good with everything I've seen here. Eric?

Yeah, I think I might even prefer it to what I had seen before. Me too. I think it looks great. Yeah, good. Jill?

No complaints.

And I know you're not going to find complaints on this project. The one thing that I do want to mention is we're talking about funding. We, and I think I've shared this previously, but just a reminder that we got a little stumped by the state legislature this year. Although we've received money from them in previous sessions, we are continuing along the process of the congressionally designated spending. And Klobuchar, we have something like a $3 million ask-in for them. And he has some early indications that it might not be that much, but we're continuing down that route. And I have my fingers crossed every single day that we'll get news on that one.

And I'll continue to reach out to Matt at the DNR. They did get $9 million of funding since the last time I talked to him. So I want to see if there's anything that he can send this way for a project that's actually going to construction. They like to spend that money as fast as they can.

Great. Well, we'll take it. We can take it tomorrow if that's helpful.

We can get it under contract in a few months.

Okay. Courtney, I want to say this for myself with the whole group here, too. You deserve a huge thank you. You have worked so hard on this. No, you're the one who has really been lobbying for this. We all want it, right? But you've been doing so much. legwork with the state and everything. So thank you so much for all of your hard work. Yeah. I mean, this is, I can't believe it's actually happening. Like after all these years, it's really going to happen.

Same. Let's get it done. October can't come soon enough. I want to see shovels in the ground. And I think like, and I want to like celebrate this in a really big way when we do groundbreaking and make it a big deal and invite all the folks who kind of helped us out along the way. Yeah. But you deserve a big thank you also. So thank you. Yeah. Thanks. All right, I don't think we have anything else on this one. We'll be on to the 1140 project and design conversation. Mr. Merrick and Mr. Nelson.

Thank you, Mayor and Council. So at your previous meeting, we talked a little bit about the county road 1140 project. The city has one and a half million dollars programmed in our long-term financial plan. for a cost share out of the general fund. There's various pots of money that'll fund that overall project. We plan on bringing a joint powers agreement for your consideration at the July 6th meeting. But we did talk about streetscape and landscaping and the council requested kind of a visual exercise, if you will, to talk about different levels of landscaping. The majority of landscaping is not covered under the county cost share policy, so that would be 100% city. But there are some intricacies in that with how they fund medians, and you essentially get credits towards something else if you do something else. And so with Jonathan, Aaron, Schmidt's help, they kind of reconciled that. And so we have, even though like the total cost of all the improvements isn't indicated, it's the city's representative share that's indicated in some slides. And when we get to that, I can talk about some tax impact numbers that we got today related to that. So with that, I'll just, I'll turn it over to Jonathan to kind of walk through the designs. Sure. Yeah, why don't we skip ahead here.

Yeah, Bren kind of set the stage here. It's kind of the goal here today is just to kind of introduce a few different treatment levels. I think we did a similar exercise for the previous JCP project where we kind of looked at, you know, base level, mid-level, high level. So we'll kind of go through a similar exercise here today and just gauge kind of interest on on those different levels and see some of the cost implications associated with those. So this is kind of the project area overview here, north to the right there. So key highlights here, again, kind of are opportunity areas that we saw. We've kind of enlarged three different areas, those red boxes that are hard to see there. But we can skip ahead here, and we'll just kind of walk through these. So this is kind of starting on the south end. Um, and really the, the opportunity areas here are going to be, you know, your roundabouts, kind of those bigger areas where there's opportunities for land enhanced landscaping or, um, monumentation or things like that. Um, obviously the one to the south is really becomes a gateway, um, into Carver and the community. So thinking about what that might look like, um, you know, we have the trail. on some of the enhancements that we've done previously along the trail north on JCP. So things like street trees and lighting and things like that. A lot of the medians through this whole project area are probably a little too narrow for a lot of the landscaping or trees and things like that. So those may have like a reduced level of treatment. Maybe it's just hardscape, things like that. You'll see we kind of have identified where some of those wider medians are as well that may lend opportunities for landscaping treatments and things similar to further north on JCP. We'll be able to scroll through these. You can see kind of closer to the roundabouts there's some wider median segments there as well as the splitter islands in the roundabout landscape that itself.

Can you take a left-hand turn out of the Carver Bluffs Parkway in that last one? Yeah, can you go back a slide? So the farthest on the left here. Can you take a left-hand turn out of there? Yes, you can, yep. Okay. Yep.

For now. Because they were talking about making that.

Well, I know we were.

But are we? Is this the plan? Is the county? We haven't gotten, they haven't developed the plan, so this is just conceptual landscape based on the base level drawings they have today.

Yeah, and that's something we'd have to look at is just sight lines through the corridor, too, and where we may have limitations as far as planting heights and things like that. And then this Northern segment, pretty narrow medians. Um, but again, looking at, you know, the outside the roadway as well, um, you know, introducing trees or, uh, decorative lighting, bollard lighting, things like that. Um, so with that, we kind of put together some imagery here. Um, again, kind of similar to, um, what we did on the previous around the JCP. Um, so some of these images might look familiar, but kind of starting at the left side, that base level kind of what Brent mentioned as far as, um, you know, cost share with the county. Um, you know, essentially what their costs, what they would cover is kind of concrete in the medians and kind of the turf and restoration work, um, in the roundabout and outside the roundabout, uh, outside the roadway. So kind of if you look at that base level, it's kind of like if we just did what the county would cover, that's kind of your base level roundabout treatment there. And then kind of a step up from that for the roundabouts would be doing some plantings in the roundabout itself, but maintaining kind of that standard concrete aesthetic. just doing plantings and then the high level you step up again you start introducing the enhanced concrete in the splitter islands and in the truck apron things like that and then you start looking at things like monumentation outside the roadway it's kind of hard to see in the background there but some of those opportunities as well so that's kind of some of the things you might see in the high level.

So I'm going to ask you a question between, I'll just call it one and two, one, two, and three. So between one and two, is there something still in between? So if you were to take out the center island or the roundabout there, where it has the concrete and the stones, and just had it planted, does that reduce the cost much if we were to take Like that stream through the middle?

Yeah, the stream through the middle. Yeah, just plant it instead. I mean, it would reduce it, but in the grand scheme of the project, probably not a ton.

Like 5,000, 10,000?

Yeah, probably that magnitude of scale. But there's definitely levels between these, right? Yeah. So when we get to some of these further slides, there's kind of some, I'd say, a la carte elements that we can look at that kind of come together to form these different options. And so you can definitely.

Sure, this is what I'm looking at this. You know, as you lead in, you've got the rock started and then the planting started. Maybe we don't need all of that, but maybe we just have plantings just straight in the center that we don't really have to touch once we get, like we kind of have that now, but we don't need all the fancy. I call it the walkway, but the river, whatever it's supposed to be in the center there, it's the river.

And I imagine, oh, sorry.

Oh, that's okay. But then it reduces, it would reduce some in those entrance and ways into the roundabout, but it still would be just plain in the center there.

Yeah.

Because that's a little bit bare for me, but I don't see all the other things necessarily needed.

Andrew, what's your... Gut feeling on maintenance.

Do you want my FLO? Concrete, no. I would think somewhere between one and two, kind of like what you're getting at. And I would really reduce the density of plantings so there's not... So many, I don't even know how many plantings are in JCP. You know, it's a lot. It's a lot. And that's where it takes a lot of time to take care of. So when people drive by and they see weeds on the noses of the roundabouts, like they spend a whole day just working in the center of the Island, taking out all the dead grasses that are growing around all these plantings. So that's where I would be mindful of somewhere between somewhere between have

mowing all the time and weeding all the time. Right.

It's just a tremendous amount of work, especially for all the stuff that's in the center of the median that people don't see that work occur. Yeah. But it's still necessary. So, yeah, I would dial down.

And for me, because we don't think of that as an entrance into town at this point because it's not one. But if we think about when we're coming down 11 right now, That's a road we never envisioned how many years ago, right? So coming into Carver, that other direction, is something we don't necessarily see yet because it's not there. But people are still going to be entering the same, you know, we want them to still feel like they're coming into something. So that's why I feel like number one is a little bit too bleak. But for me, even going all the way to number two right now is a little much, but there needs to be, I think, something more that makes it a little bit more inviting since we are, that is kind of going to be our new entrance into Carver from the other direction.

And we're talking about both roundabouts, correct?

Yeah. So they could have different levels of treatments.

Well, no, I think I'm with you as well. And my head is where your question led of like, let's not have it look like three in year one and then not be able to maintain that. Um, as you know, when I see a weed in the roundabout, it drives me insane. Um, but like that's our gateway to our community. I think that there is some consistency of like, oh, Carver's got the nice roundabouts. I don't care for number one, um, the base level. I think, um, I just, that's not how I want to welcome. individuals into our community, that's not the level of consistency that I want people to notice as they're in our community. And I think there's also something, I remember when Dan Lonis presented this to us, there's something about you don't want there to be a line of sight straight ahead. You want to be forced to kind of look the way that you should be looking. And if you can't see through the roundabout, that's kind of a good thing if there's that level of plantings. So I I would say, you know, when I first took a look at this, I didn't see the difference between medium and high. It was like, what is the difference? And then I had to read the bullets, and then I saw the stamped concrete and the colors, and it took me a second. But I would say I would be in favor of medium level or a medium level minus, you know, kind of that 1.5, if you will, 1.75 maybe. But I do want this to be something that looks pretty as long as I can maintain it.

Now see, I'm looking at the stamp concrete and everybody who lives on that side of town gets to see this twice a day. We don't get to rework the concrete part of it. We get to make adjustments to whatever we plant there and whatever that looks like. So I'm kind of between two and three. It is an important feature to everyone that's going to live there and see that twice a day, so let's keep that in mind. We can adjust plantings as Andrew sees fit for city maintenance, but I'd like to know what the difference is in cost for a little bit of upgraded concrete work, assuming we're not going to do all the monuments like we did previously.

Do we have stamped at 6th Street?

There's a few more slides you want to run through. Yeah, let's run through those. So kind of carrying the same idea through the rest of the corridor then in the medians and outside the roadway. Again, kind of looking at that base level on the left, it's kind of the standard concrete turn. Then the medium level, kind of what know what was out what's out there currently with the kind of native seating and the medians the ornamental trees um and then uh the overstory trees outside the roadway there and then the high level again looking at you know potential to introduce monumentation uh into the corridor um the the trees again on the outside of the roadway and in this case um defining planting beds in the medians at key locations and planting those

Jonathan, where do the lit bollards fall in?

Is that the medium level? We don't have those in a level, but we have those identified as kind of an a la carte item. They could really fit into any of these levels, right?

So for that, I want to go back. I'm sorry, go back. So I would be, and I get where you're saying, Eric. I mean, that's why I brought up, there's still going to be a lot of traffic coming in and out of that way, especially as that development happens. I would be more inclined to go for the medium, full-on medium for the medians in the center. Medium for the medians. Because I think that's important because on the left there, that could be any highway in the middle of nowhere, and that is terrible looking, if I'm going to be honest. So I would... be really on board with the medium for this. I think for consistency, too. Yeah, like the visual identity of the city. Right. I'm still kind of at one and a half on the other one, because at least it's something in there, but I think if we have the medians done, that helps with that kind of bleakness of number one, at least. I know that that's probably not what you want to hear from me, but I... I think if we tone down the roundabouts a hair and go between one and two, but at least have, I'm fully on board with medium here because otherwise I think that is one barren looking landscape on the left.

I'd still be interested to know what the stamped concrete on the roundabout cost. Not so many monuments, but I think the difference in tone between just asphalt, white concrete, and, you know, that catches your eye a little bit, it differentiates it. I don't know if that's a big spendy thing or not. I know we don't have to worry about it from a maintenance standpoint. You're not worrying about mowing and trimming around a monument. But you'll tell us.

I think it says something that I was not part of the building process of the last roundabout, but Christy just had to ask if we stamped the concrete or not. So how much are we really noticing? I think Christy doesn't go that way. Yes, I do. How do you know where I go?

Christy lives downtown.

She never gets out. Yeah, I know.

Right here in these blacks. My office is that way. I have to go up there.

Because I was at the same thing. I couldn't remember. And I drive that all the time. I couldn't remember if it was stamped concrete or not. And I wasn't part of the process. I was thinking that... I was bringing up Christy's comment because you were part of the process of designing it. So I theoretically would pay more attention to those details than someone who's just driving through.

This does look like a little granular detail. This is going to be a pun too. We wanted rock in there, like kind of river rock. And the colony didn't want that on the colony road. So then we went to like... a stamp kind of concrete that mimics kind of a rock outcropping. There's enough rock on that road.

Where's the pun?

It's rock, regular.

You can do better. So the colored concrete on the I guess the rest of JCP is you know we did the median noses at each intersection. So the first, I can't remember if it's 30, 40 feet of each median is colored. And then at the roundabout, there's kind of an enhanced color treatment where the color itself kind of creates a river pattern.

You can see it in the aerial photo. I was just looking at it on Google Earth. That's how I always look at roundabouts.

Digging a little bit into the cost, so we, in a long-term plan, had 1.5. So, you know, obviously we're not there. You know, you could still budget for additional contingencies, but we think we have that covered in other areas. The tax, so if we kind of go down to that, if we did a $750,000 project, we would have about a $30 impact to property taxes on an average value home, which is around $462,000.

What page are we on, Brent? I'm just sharing. Oh, that's where I saw it. I was like, why is it not here?

Okay. So then you can just go and divide it by two if you go down from $750,000 to $325,000. That gets you from $30,000 to $15,000. The levy impact on a $750,000 is around $75,000. And then if you got to $325,000, $37,500 in kind of conceptual dollars. That said, we also don't levy by project. We levy by total budget. And so this isn't going to be levied for in a vacuum. You're going to have all the other projects and budget items that we just talked about at your last work session. So just wanted to give you kind of a broad view of the tax impact and levy impact for each one of these choices.

I could not support $400,000 for stamped concrete. So that is the difference. That's not. That's what I'm getting at. So that's why I'm asking. If mid-level plus just some color that you see, some separation there, is $50,000, well, that's a beautification project for $50,000 that we only get once to do there. That's worth considering, but no, I'm not in it for $400 if you know that.

I have another question on top of it. So let's just say, so if we're looking at B1 or whatever, so when you're coming into the roundabout there, we've got stamped concrete ends, then you have rock and plantings as you enter the roundabout. Is it cost savings or cost more if we were to take those plantings out as you enter and have that be stamped concrete? Do you know? Is it kind of like...

It's probably pretty similar, but maintenance-wise, it's going to be lower cost.

Okay. Long-term. Long-term, yeah. I'm only asking because, to me, the lead-in part isn't quite as important as the actual roundabout part for having plantings. So if that's where we can get some stamped concrete to get some visual differences there, maybe that's where it lands.

My only... But on the median part, I do like the idea of consistency. But the areas that I think you've indicated, if you could go to slide five, where it says project layout and location overview, it looks like the areas... Shoot, there was a better one maybe that we were just on. Next. Yeah, the next one forward. Yep, there. It looks like the thicker, more plantable medians are on that curve. that's right by Creekside Park and then Carver Bluffs Parkway. Maybe not so much Carver Bluffs Parkway. I'm having a hard time discerning if that median on the left side there is plantable, but the one that's right by Creekside Park makes me a little bit nervous. And I just want to make sure that whatever we do isn't going to cause a traffic hazard in a year or 10 or whenever that is.

And that it's plantable, because some of that's going to have to just be concrete because you can't fit landscaping into those little turn lanes and things, right?

Yeah, this is very high level and just kind of identifying that, you know, there's some areas that are going to be plantable, there's some that aren't. Those are the wider medians on the corridor, but yeah, we'll have to look at sight lines.

Ultimately, if the council feels comfortable kind of floating out a budget and any major amenities that you'd like to see, then we can come back with a more definite plan as the plan develops. But we don't know if we should start from that base level or total maxed out full speed ski.

If you go back to that slide with the costs on it, you can just kind of Let's see, back one. There we go. So the base level, that's kind of covering the seating and, you know, the seating restoration and the concrete. The mid-level, that's covering kind of that seating restoration outside the roadway. The plain concrete, colored concrete, plantings at the roundabouts, and kind of the seating and the medians. the trees outside the roadway, and the trees in the medians. So basically, these costs are hardscape and landscape. The only difference there is when we get to the high level, we did add in about $100,000 for a monument feature. So that kind of differentiates that high level, incorporating a monument potentially at one of the roundabouts. And then kind of where some of the cost comes from, too, is any formal planting beds, the county requires irrigation. So if we start introducing planting beds into the medians, that irrigation cost goes up because we have to get irrigation through the medians and things.

Jonathan, what does a $100,000 monument look like?

So the monuments have six.

Uh-huh.

There's those two columns on those two corners. So those were about, I think, 40,000 to 50,000 per column. So 100,000 would be basically one of those monuments. Okay, thank you.

That's helpful. I think, I don't know that I am... have a strong feeling one way or the other on the monuments, and at the risk of going ahead a little bit, I do think what would be really beneficial is the bollard lighting. I'd just take a look at what a difference that has made along 6th Street and along the existing stretch of Johnson and Carver Parkway. I think that that would make it even more walkable. So I'd like to see that.

Yeah, maybe we can walk through the... So from here, we've This is kind of some standards that we put together after the JCP project. They haven't been adopted, but just wanted to document what's out there and could be carried forward on this project too. As far as the lighting, you know, we have the enhanced kind of roadway lights, the Carver standard roadway light. And then at the underpass, near the underpass, we have like a pedestrian scale version of that same light kind of lighting the walkway down to the underpass. So we just keep going ahead here. Then we have the bollard lights on the concrete paths periodically along the trail. We have some electrical receptacles. Those are located primarily near the roundabout in the case that you wanted to do holiday lighting or anything near the roundabouts in the future.

Oh, Andrew.

Yep, we can't wait.

Just for you.

Can you send us pictures of what your holiday lights look like at your house?

We're going to say stuff like that. Say earmuffs first. Halloween. Put on your earmuffs. Yeah, Halloween.

Yeah, Halloween holidays. And some Valentine's Day lights.

Yeah.

Steamboat day lighting?

Oh my gosh, we can light up St. Patty's. There's so many. Flag day? Yep. We just had flag day.

Oh, I got a call. It's all there. We're building you a new shop.

You have plenty of places to store lights now.

Let's just string them up. The monumentation, kind of the two examples of monumentation along the corridor there.

I do want to say something about the monumentation. So we've got one at kind of our major intersections. We've got one up by Fleet Farm. We've got one down here, which 6th Street is technically kind of the center of town now. I wouldn't mind seeing one of the pillars somewhere as you come off that farthest roundabout, that there's a pillar somewhere there that just says Carver. I think we've got it at all the other ones. We don't need it maybe at every roundabout, not the 4th Street one. But that roundabout out there, I just called by that, I'm gonna turn to Jordan. I think that's gonna be, I mean, that's gonna be kind of a major spot coming through. I don't think it'd be a bad idea if we had something and it doesn't have to be huge but I would like things that even if it's just somewhere we have the one of the right hand ones that as you come in or two of them on that last I wouldn't mind identifying it down there either that's kind of the southern entrance I was thinking about that too like how do we define that now you're coming into Carver we're talking about that visual identity and

We have a lot of growth happening and there are going to be places where it's a good idea to define. Now you're in Carver, that might be one of those. From the south, that might be one of those locations.

I don't want to spend a hundred million thousand dollars on it. So like the pillar on the side there, is that what you said was $40,000?

Yeah, that was like $40,000 to $50,000.

That's the sign. Oh, it's just the side view.

Okay, so then, but is there something that we don't have to have that whole thing?

I mean, we have two pillars. It doesn't all have to, I mean, the top one doesn't look exactly the same as the one below it. So is there something on a smaller scale that... that we can have that just is a pillar like that that says Carver and it doesn't have to be the whole length of that front view that's next to it.

Yeah, we could do something simplified. Those are internally lit too, so they're kind of more, you know, more intense design, more costly design. You could do like ground level lighting that casts up at it, for example, for cheaper and kind of just focus your money on the column itself. Okay.

I would agree, but there's probably not as much need to have monumentation at the Main Street roundabout. But to do it on the County Road 11. And County Road 11. Yeah.

And then some of the retaining walls here. I think, you know, if there's retaining walls needed, we just match the aesthetic used elsewhere. There's the stamped concrete, colored and stamped, so those are the two different colors we've used previously on JCP and the pattern. And then the coloration for the underpass to brighten it up, the decorative railing, and then the limestone seat blocks that are placed periodically along the corridor in place of benches. And then there's some of the various species of overstory trees.

For all the landscaping that you picked up, all that's salt tolerant? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. It's pretty salt tolerant stuff. A lot of the species, yeah, they're the same as what's used on JCP out there. And these are all very kind of salt tolerant species of perennials and shrubs.

I feel like I've heard something about the hackberry. Is this the hackberry drop?

What if I feel like I've... Andrew, do you know anything about, do you have strong feelings on hackberry trees?

He's looking for more truth trees of any kind.

I know the Kentucky coffee tree has kind of shifted a bit. They say that the Kentucky coffee tree is an excellent one to be having in Minnesota.

Yeah, these are all species we use very frequently on roadway projects.

Could we, for myself anyways, I would like to see Cause we had talked about, um, with the roundabouts where if we took, as you entered the roundabout to take off some of those plantings and just have a stamp concrete section right here and just see if there's much different costs, but then it's also less weeding that and look at Andrew's like, oh, thank you.

Well, I mean, for one point it's not very big. Right, it's not a big area. And when it's in between all that concrete, that gets heated up so much, so the weeds really love those warm spots.

And another thing, it's not the safest. We have to take a lot of precautions in those areas for traffic.

It's not a good spot to stand in that roundabout with the many trucks that go by there every day. I mean, that's why they set up the traffic the way they do, because it's...

Yeah, I like the walkway in it removed, right? But then the plantings, as you go to enter it, change that to stamped and see what that might look like.

And can we take Andrew's feedback of not as densely planted as well?

Yeah, so that gets tough. The less dense you plant it, the more room, basically, there is for leaves. So it's kind of a balancing act. That's what we often do. Pick your heart. You want to plant it dense, but then you see the cost and it's like, I'll scale it back. But it is, there's weeding involved.

I mean, that wouldn't be fair to say the concrete actually helps improve, like getting rid of the dense planting if you, because you have less space to plant. If you put more concrete in the roundabout.

Yeah. I mean, you're talking about the river patterns? Yeah.

It actually ends up being a more of a maintenance trip than anything. What do you think about that, Andrew?

Do you think?

Well, I mean, logically, yeah, there's less spot for the weeds to grow, right? I think Jonathan needs to come up with something and that we beat him up on it. Really. I mean, that's how I think it's going to work best is we have some back and forth and try to come up with creative solutions where it's going to look nice, but Um, also it's easier to maintain than what we have. So we have a great example, but maybe what we don't want to do and then we can.

I think we have, I mean, part of that is just the work of the city though, is that we're going to have some areas that are going to have to be beautified. Right. And they're going to take maintenance. So I don't want to completely shy away from it just because it does take extra, which I realize it does, but we do have to ask for those fees.

I think the council has a budget in mind. Andrew and Jonathan and I can work on a draft and bring that back to you at a future meeting. We just think we need an idea of the scope that you'd like to invest in this area.

What was the median dollar amount?

$300. What was the tax for that? No, $300 was around $15. That was $325. But that doesn't include the lit bollards either. Or any monumentation.

Maybe we're not.

I'm sorry.

No, I was just going to say, the one thing that I'm thinking is these don't have to be two mirror image roundabouts in my mind's eye. I think the one on the south, I would like to have it be a little more than. And then the one at Main Street can be a little less than. So maybe we find the even match there. I don't know for the one on the south. I'm happy to see the numbers, but I don't know that I love the idea of taking out the plantings that are leading up to it. If there's a happy median where it more mimics the river rock that's on Levi Griffin Road or along Monroe, that we do something like that with the tall grasses. I think that's kind of what they have here.

That's kind of what that's intended to be. Yeah, they didn't allow a loose rock on the road.

So what is that? It's...

change to uh just planting beds on the noses and then we use the the stamped concrete to kind of mimic the idea of river rock okay i just i kind of want the southernmost one to look a little bit more closely to the fourth street or sixth street sixth street um and then

Is that making sense? Yeah, that makes sense. We can do a scale. I agree. I can be a little less fancy.

Yeah, that makes sense. So I'm hearing major themes are not necessarily ready to commit to a cost right now. So I'm hearing bollards, some light monumentation, and 6th Street light.

And can we keep that at $300,000?

Not with those things.

Yeah, not with those components. So when we're talking about the bollard lights, which is going to be, what expense is that? How much is that one to put those in?

We don't have a number, but I would guess each bollard is probably several thousand dollars. And then you have to run the wiring and conduit.

I mean, you don't have to, like, I would say, let us come back to you with that. It'd be, we're not, we're not in a hurry to like get this design and the cost. If you can, if you allow, um, direct us to come back with that and then you can scale back and we can have more definite costs. I called, uh, Jonathan probably. 10 days ago and said, I'd eat this bite.

I have another lighting question before we move on. So we'll see you at our next meeting, John. The street lights. So those are going to be placed all along there anyways, right?

Just at the roundabout.

Oh, they're just at the roundabout.

Right, and we have to pay the upcharge to get our standard in the counties.

Okay, so then other than that, there's no lighting along the road besides the roundabouts?

Other than the bollards, if you chose to move those. Right, so if there was no bollards, it would just be at the roundabouts? There's probably just some minimal intersection lighting at different areas. But there's no street lights like that on the north side of the corridor either.

I feel like you've been quiet. Do you feel heard? Do you have any more questions?

Well, I think my colored stamped concrete got hurt. Hurt, hurt, hurt.

I thought you said hurt. I was like, oh, sorry.

No, I agree with focus on the southern entrance to town. Um, I just think we're going to end up spending a little bit more. We're going to do this once. Um, you know, I don't know, does 400 get us some of the things we're asking for?

Yeah, I think kind of like Brent said, we can put some numbers to it. I think we take the feedback we can.

I think we should be a little more willing to, you know, to go to two plus instead of one plus because it's a permanent fixture. And again, it's going to be the thing that everyone sees twice a day. Let's do it right and let's be willing to put a little more effort into it. More on the southern side, that makes sense. And we structure it that way. But I think if you're looking for direction, I think a little bit more than than the option two, so two plus.

And I'm not trying to expedite the conversation. I just know we probably won't be able to land the plane to design it, design build it right now. But if you, going back from our last meeting to today, we just didn't have an idea of how much you wanted to invest at all in this. I think we've got a pretty good flavor right now knowing that if maybe we push it like as far as the budget and then give you a menu of like okay if you took this out it would reduce the cost by this you can kind of play around with the pieces and build what you'd like to see there.

And little things like the ground lighting you know instead of internal lighting that makes sense.

You had it in the presentation, and I remember Dan saying this, of like, we will never say, you know what, let's put an extra $150,000 into landscaping the corridor. Let's put another monument in. Let's try to retrofit bollard lights for twice the cost of what it would have cost if we would have done it originally. So this is the time yet.

So no, I mean, I haven't heard anyone say that 700,000 is okay, right? So does it make sense to come back with something that's around the 300 mark and something around the 400 mark and we can compare them?

I think we have a 300 mark, right?

Right, but we've talked about a couple of different things where if we take those plantings out, but then it's all stamped. So I don't know what those little tweaks that we've talked about, if they make any big difference to it or not.

I think if we're going to get some kind of monument at the entrance to town, It's going to push us up to 400, if we do anything. So I think we need to be willing to say, let's look at what 400 gets us. And that includes scaling back some of this other stuff that's in there. But I think we need to be willing to look at that.

I think we should just let Jonathan come back, because I think he understands the science.

If I get this wrong, jump in. we're looking to understand like scope. So like some of like the, once we understand the scope, then we'll get in, Jonathan will get into like a full design that may, you know, take us through the, you know, the winter and then we can come back and then you can kind of cut and paste or copy and paste and like cut 5,000 here and add 10,000 here. But I don't necessarily think that's the, gonna be the exercise that you wanna go through when we come back with this. We want this understand, the scope so I guess I would like cautiously push you away from trying to right size it when it comes back with the concept of like I'd rather see this landscape than that hardscape of colored concrete over here but not here. You'll have the chance to do that but if I don't think you want to expedite your process that much in the short of a window when we are trying to understand scope and cost but do what you think is best for your situation but how long would it like does it take to like put together a set of plans like normally for like a corridor like this like construction plans or concept plans yeah concept plans like to the level of detail that we're talking about for this corridor oh i think we could probably have that done in one or two months. Is that a real essay? Yeah. I like this, like, selfishly I'd love to see, like, the council that, like, develops, like, a concept before spending one or two months having them develop something fully. But, again, that's just my editorial piece. That doesn't mean that's where you need to align. Yeah. I'll stop talking.

So, yeah, I think what I'm hearing is come back with a higher level concept than we have now, more defined with some rough costs before we go into kind of planned production. Right, essentially. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. I think we're...

But as a council, you don't have to... I just said it doesn't mean you have to agree to that. I'm just setting the table for... I'm not sure... What process you want if he comes back, if Jonathan comes back with a concept, do you want to get into the detail of where certain pieces should go? Because that, I think, is a different exercise where I want to have you spend more time, like one to two months developing this. so that it's like super thoughtful on like okay where everything fits because if the council comes in and then starts getting into that detail we should have some thought behind where it went instead of like conceptually could go there so we want to match our level of effort to the level of review that you're going to do so if it's conceptual we'll give you conceptual like bollards and monumentation and plantings it'll be this concept But if you come back and you do it and say, I'd rather have the monument here and not here, that's a different exercise where we should spend more time detailing it out. So do you want a detailed concept or do you want a high-level concept, I guess is the question.

Is there a reason we wouldn't look for more detail after having this discussion tonight? I mean, what does everyone feel like? Are we there or are we not there?

I don't. feel like we're ready to discuss to the level of like, this is going to go here and this is going to go here. I think we're still, we're one level up from where we are right now, but we're not all the way to a detailed plan. I don't think.

I'd argue that maybe we don't want to get into the weeds of like, oh, the bollards should really go, you know, like, I think, again, policy, high level, 30,000 feet, and just kind of take a look. If we can get something that's 400,000 Or less what we've talked about tonight, incorporating that in my concern is like with a monument, it's going to be more than that, but like you've heard us like, what does that concept look like? And more importantly, does that cost?

Yeah. So I think the biggest, the most important pieces are obviously the roundabout. Like there's a lot of discussion about what those should look like, the different treatments. So we keep the corridor pretty high level. We identify kind of the amenities, rough costs for that. maybe not specific locations. Just tell us how many bollards we get.

Yeah, is the bollard use consistent to what we've seen in other parts of town? Yep. Does that sound good? Yes?

It does.

Was that a yes from you? That's a yes. Okay, we good?

We good. I mean, it might be more maybe like a spreadsheet exercise with some updated visuals and like an updated plan. Yes. Yeah. With commodities and costs and the real nerdy stuff.

Yeah.

No, I've got some thoughts. We can't wait to see your spreadsheet.

Bring me some pictures, please.

I was not. You and I think very differently. Spreadsheets, spreadsheets.

No, I'm sorry.

Let's start talking about the conservation rate discussion.

This is a carryover from our last work session where we were trying to talk about how we can... A request that I made last year about, is there a possibility that we add a fourth tier to make other tiers a little bit less?

Yep. All right. Thank you, Mayor. So just following up from last work session. So we're just going to look at provide water usage insights. So I just dove a little bit deeper into the 2025 data. And then we're also going to review potential fourth tier rate structure, which you've already seen. and then support conversation and peak demand planning. So just to review and recap, we have 2,270 residential accounts, 37 industrial and commercial. I combine those because we really only have one industrial account. 25 irrigation accounts, and as you can imagine, those only really start up in April, May, and they're done usually around October.

An industrial account means a business that has a business line and then a industrial meter?

So, industrial is just how we classify. Really, we could combine industrial with commercial.

I'm sorry, I meant irrigation. So it's a business that has a separate meter.

Yes, so they're just classified. Yeah, and we have a couple for our parks, like a specific meter specified for just irrigating. We have 23 multi-home accounts. That would be like apartment buildings and then institutions. Those would be like schools, churches, basically like that, tax-exempt. Um, so what I did is I looked at what accounts, how many accounts did we bill for usage over 15,000 gallons and how many accounts or how many times did we bill for over 20,000 gallons? So when we're looking at the left-hand side, um, how many institution accounts, how many times did we bill those institution accounts in 12 months? So for over 20,000 gallons, we only billed that institutional account three times. for over 20,000 gallons in 2025. For over 15,000 gallons, we build them four times in 12 months, and so on and so forth. So if we look at the multi-homes, that's what that number 12 represents. So out of all of those, if I go back, 23 multi-home accounts, we build 12 times for over 15,000 gallons. So that's what this is representing. But if we go over to the residential side, we build 1,348 times over 15,000 gallons. So that means we build that many accounts for that much. We build 578 times for 20,000 gallons. I just have a couple notes on that. So we build four residential accounts for over 100,000 gallons in 2025. And you're like, what? In a month? In a month. And then we billed 33 accounts for usage between 50,000 gallons and 99,000 gallons. And those were all new homes. Those were all new homes. That's all irrigation, I can assume. So what happens is they set their irrigation. They don't know how to change it. And now they've used 100,000 gallons in a month. One side takes a lot, right? If you have a new side. Not that much, but yes, it does. But it takes a lot. So our largest multi-home averages about 250 gallons a month, and that's about a bill of $2,500. Say that one more time. Our largest multi-home up on Hartwell averages about 250,000 gallons a month for all the units combined. And that bill costs about $2,500 a month, just to put things into perspective. So our current rate structure, we have three tiers. All cities do all things completely different. So if you try to look at things. That's why we're just looking at the city of Carver tonight. So our current rate structure is on the left. The conceptual tier structure is on the right. Just looking at adding that fourth tier. And that's what all of this data is based on.

I have a, so, because I have no idea. So let's say our businesses, like our bars down here and maybe like the daycare up here and Mizzy's and I don't know, maybe all the vet office is probably the one. Like, do you know kind of an average of where those small businesses around town are coming in at?

Yeah. So like, if you look at the ones down here that don't have a lot of users, you're going to look and they're going to be under 5,000.

Sure. Like the insurance agency or something like that.

Right. Right.

Let's say, like, the getaway and the daycare or whatever.

Right, right. So then if you go up to a restaurant or something, probably going to be more than that $5,000 to $10,000 to $15,000. Okay. Definitely not over that.

Okay.

Yeah. Okay. So that's where you're going to look.

Okay. Thanks. Yeah, I had no idea, so I appreciate that.

So then this came from... um, Northlands study. So this just kind of says, okay, out of the different tiers, where, where are they being built? Where's the water? Where are our users? So if you look at irrigation, where are the irrigation users being built? Okay. They're all being built currently in our third tier. Will that make sense? You're not going to go out and water just 3000 gallons. They're watering in the over 10,000 gallons. Um, residential, most of the users are in that zero to 5,000 and then the other, the commercial, the multifamily, most of those users are in the over 10,000 currently. So in the proposed, when I provided the data to Northland to run the numbers, it's kind of similar, right? Like the residential, they would all be under the zero to 5,000. The irrigation would still be over 20. And all others would be, most usage would be over 20. So the introduction of a tier four is not structured to provide an increase in overall operating revenue because the difference would be a revenue generator of $20,000. It's just the fact that we would shift the revenue from the lower users, like residential, you know, zero to 5,000, and it would be more on that tier four users. So what does that mean? And I don't know why I don't have that last slide, but it just means that it could depend on the weather if you're looking at that irrigation, especially if we have like a really dry summer. So that's just kind of, there's just so many different things that cities do with their rates, and this is me just giving you more information on ours. Thank you. Can you send us this PowerPoint? Absolutely. Yeah, I just quick whipped it up today. I will send it to you. It's great. Yes, incredibly helpful.

I just whipped it up.

Oh, yeah.

Okay. Why don't we take the next 10 minutes to digest this information and we can have a discussion about it during the meeting.

Perfect.

Sounds good. Okay. With that, I would entertain a motion to adjourn. Motion.

I'll second.

Second the councilman for punishment. All those in favor?

Aye. All those in favor?

Motion passes. Remember we were supposed to get some rain in. It's dark over there.

Which is weird because it's been so cool. I know. Remember we had the air off and the windows open?