Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

There you go. Okay. I'm calling the meeting to order. Anything for update agenda from anyone? No. Public comment. There's nobody here. Town plan. Allison. Oh, wow. Okay. That's quick. Um I um am I able to share slides? Oh, if you give me one second, I probably can make sure you can.

Okay. So, um, when I was I've been working on this draft and I felt like we needed to have, um, more of a conversation about the vision. There's a vision statement in the plan, but I know that you've done a lot of long range planning exercises that are also referenced in the plan. remember the timeline that we were um working on. Um so I wanted to run a few ideas by you and if you're good with this then we can refine that and incorporate this vision into the draft. So um let me start.

How do I share? You should be able to hit share down at the bottom of your screen. It's too much. Yeah. Now all I'm seeing is let me there. Now how do I go back to Zoom share? Got it. Okay. So can you see this? Yeah, it's a working. There it comes.

Okay. So this actually this comes from your existing plan. A small rural town blessed with striking natural beauty and an abundance of natural resources that have benefited residents and attracted visitors for many years. The future success Somebody wants in. Yep.

There we go. The future success of Brighton will depend on an active citizenry and the wise use and preservation of our clean rivers, lakes, forests, mountains, and unspoiled scenic resources. So, I added the emphasis that have benefited residents and attracted visitors for many years. Um that was because in looking at the survey responses, there were a couple of times when survey respondents who were residents said, "We need to do this for people who live here,

not for tourists. You know, stop thinking about the tourists." But, you know, there's also a lot of people who do visit Island Pond and who do come here for second homes. So, um I was trying to think of something part of our vision that can benefit both residents and visitors alike and in doing so help to um boost the local economy and create more opportunities. These are some of the recommendations that came out of your community visit, right? So, um, the one that was revitalizing the downtown was the one that led to the better connections grant and the master plan, which I've been reviewing. Um, which is great and there's a lot of cool ideas to integrate into this plan. the thing that it um focuses focuses on is making the downtown walkable. Um enhancing that connectivity with the lake. And I know that you've done other um downtown um improvements to do that. Making the most of um green spaces and activities, redeveloping blighted properties, and then the big elephant in the room is that you know the the conceptual designs for the master plan for the redesign of the streets. Um I didn't know what has become of this recommendation. to make Brighton an ATV destination, but it looks like the Tri County ATV network does a pretty good job of marketing trail connectivity.

Yeah, we need to keep that in the town plan though. Yep. Pardon? Definitely. Yes, pardon. Yes, keep it in the town plan. I just I just I my only question is is specifically ATVs because we we do snowmobiles, too. do it. I mean, I just wonder if we should just do Well, is snow snowmobiles must be in there. Well, no. This is a specific They are, but this is a specific call out for just ATVs. I'm just questioning. I mean, that was at the time we were trying to pass ordinances to keep a, you know, to allow ATVs. We've done all that. I just don't know if that needs to still be like the a specific call out in our kind of visioning for the town

is my only question. I mean, didn't we open up all the roads to Yeah. I think we've done everything that that the town could really do. As long as it stays. Yes. I mean, it's not like I'm saying we should take anything away from that. I just want to make sure that it doesn't go away. Maybe we should just add the snowmobiles to that. I think maybe we should just either change it to something with outdoor recreation or just get rid of it all together only because it it's not like it's getting rid of the ATVs. it's that that is not a priority for us to be focused on. You know, at that time it was a priority that we needed to attract ATVs here. So, and we did everything that they've asked

and so I don't know that well it does say expand existing trail works

and these are all great um this is this is the kind of conversation that I was hoping to spark but um I've got some other survey data that might help inform this discussion. So maybe we should just go forward a little bit, but um I just want to say I put this out there because I know that recreation is a very important aspect of the community and it and from what I'm hearing, ATVing is a big part of it, but so is snowmmoiling and so is other forms of recreation. And we can certainly um you know we can certainly document what has been done to improve ATV access in our transportation plan and we can talk about the various forms of recreation um when we talk about our long range vision. I think there's there's a way that we we don't necessarily have to demote it. It just um recreation is it it's part of the bigger picture about recreation access.

Right. Does that kind of mistake as long as it stays in in there and not just snowshoeing and you know Oh yeah, you know what I'm talking about motorized. No, but but what we're saying with this is that that overrides all everything else. ATVs are more important than anything else. That's not that's not I don't like that. So, um, the other recommendation that was in there was making the most of recreation opportunities. Um, and also taking an organized approach. It looks like there was going to be a recreation task force. Um, we do we have Brighton recreation does exist. We actually the town has a paid recreation director.

Great. Okay. All right. So we're able to um document the follow through on these concepts and this too can become part of the recreation prong of that vision. So um this is early on I think Joel you had asked how did respondence differ between residents and non-residents and there were a smaller pool of non-residents but 58 out of 164 is or 146 I think is is still pretty substantial and most of these were people who had second homes. There were some people who just, you know, said that they don't live there. They have land, but they they camp and whatever. But if you look at their forms of recreation, they I I mean to maintain that balance, you um there are some things that that residents um weighted more heavily on versus non-residents. But I think what it really means is that some of these recreation activities are pretty important to drawing people to to Island Pond and and is part of your economy.

Hey Allison. Yeah. Did you happen to look at the survey that was in the master plan? Yes. I know that we did a survey our own for this, but you know, I can go in our records and we've got all these surveys over time. Interesting. I don't know. It's probably too late to incorporate all those others thing into this and now they're probably dated, but we do this all the time. We do these surveys and I just that you had just asked me to break this out. Right. Right.

I'm just showing you how um whereas, you know, the the non-residents are a smaller group, but again, they tend to weight more heavily towards different forms of of recreation than others. Like the big one is the playground. Like two, what was it? 7% of respondents, resident respondents versus Oh, yeah. 52%. So I just thought it was different. That's a lot. We were supposed to have a destination. That is an underground. Yeah. But I mean, I wasn't expecting that. Yeah.

I wouldn't have expected that either. You think the people who live here would like the playground more than the people who are visiting here. Yeah. Yeah. Well, a lot of the people that use the playground may not have taken the survey either. No. Because they're kids. or because they're I it's awkward to perhaps ex make an explanation for that. Was it 52% as well? The playground might not visitors, right? And playground is 6 7% for the residents. Yeah. Wow. See, I understand that because you go out in your backyard and play and not, you know, instead of come down the street.

Yeah. Yeah. But that playground's always got people on it when it's, you know. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And and I'll bet if you checked, a lot of those people would be residents. They're just residents who aren't interested in filling out surveys. I mean, 88 people. I mean, how many people? Well, and our survey respondents did tend to skew older. Yeah. So, take it with a grain of salt. Um this is going back to

the um we asked people to wait what was most important in these vision statements and I think early on there was some concern that respondents would try to take us in a totally different de direction from where you've been going for the past couple of decades and and I don't really think that's the case. Um so I just I wanted to again break out where where the um people where they were coming from when they valued um these these vision statements and how they valued them the most. So again I went back to um the future vision what was most important and they actually share this the the residents and non-re residents share this this synergy of stewardship of the lake the vibrancy of the downtown and then you start to see a like a a a variation in in different waitings and it doesn't mean that any of these values are less important important, but what it does mean is that collectively it creates an authentic community that's livable and also can draw people at the same time.

I think that's an important point, too, because it's kind of a false dichotomy between people who say, "Well, we just don't do enough for residents and we do more for tourists." The two go together. I I mean when you fixing one for one, you're also improving it for everybody else.

Yeah. And I think that's really well said. And the thing that I would like to drive home to see this plan drive home in the vision statement is to try to without being defensive is to talk about how it's it's it is it's a vision that benefits everyone and how it all comes together. Um because I was concerned by those comments that you know those it was common refrain of you know stop doing all of this for the tourists and I don't think you're just doing it for the tourists. I think you're doing it to create a vibrant community but to this this matrix I think helps to show how it all comes together. Um such as like for a community that cares there was you know neighbors helping neighbors you know. Yes, nearly 40% of the people who live here value that and think that it's very important, but you know, more than a fifth of the people who don't live here also value it. To me, that says that they want to come to a community that has a s sense of authenticity. It's a community that has heart. Um, again for like housing opportunities and livability, I'm not surprised that, you know, you see like doubling in the percentages and people who care about having a school and having affordable housing options, but again, you know, having a livable community ultimately creates an attractive community for visitors as well. So, what I would suggest or just things to to think about when expanding on that

original vision statement, I think it makes sense to weave in specific examples of what of what it means to be to create a vibrant community for everyone. You already have that statement in your in your vision statement where you um benefit residents and visitors alike. But how do you do it? I everyone agrees on the environmental stewardship. Your existing plan already takes a very heavy emphasis on environmental stewardship and people greatly value the lake. Um, and they also see that it's connected to the downtown. There's, um, I think that there's a shared concern for revitalizing the downtown. Um, and also for the strong sense of the that schools are supported and you maintain a strong sense of community. And that also means like having playgrounds that get used. um even if they didn't answer all of even if those uh playground users didn't answer the surveys. um universal access to to recreation, different, you know, there different things that are going to appeal for different people, but you have um a great opportunity to satisfy multiple multiple u groups of people who are seeking forms of recreation. Um, and then finally,

the infrastructure in this, uh, yes. Um, I I guess I would put it in in um in the downtown, but I would I I think I would weave it throughout because your downtown is also connected to the lake. Um, you also, um, it's connected to community functions. It's all about walkability. It's about safety. So, it feels like maybe infrastructure is the thread that pulls it all together.

Certainly the piece that the town has the most control over. Yeah. And it's the most expensive thing. There is that too. Well, it is, but it's nobody else can provide it. Right. Right. That's that's the thing. It is your common thread. And I know that it's it's been, you know, that a a tough nut to crack and you've been working at it for a couple of years now.

I'm just afraid that that just saying vibrant downtown, you know, that's what you see above ground. I'm just thinking of all the work that has to be done underground and maintained and created to to to support the stuff above ground.

Yeah. But again, I think that's I think you're emphasizing why it's it's a common thread that brings all of this together because um the the infrastructure also is pertains to storm water and sewer systems and you know I mean you are a downtown that's on a lake. I mean, so I mean all of this and and you you wouldn't be able to maintain that compact sense of compact um development patterns, but you also wouldn't be able to um support the community functions. I mean, part of that is the pavilion and and the walking path and you know, it's it's all to me it's all interwoven.

I agree. So, um, if if these are the concepts, I think I can I can craft a vision statement that works. But is there anything I'm leaving off? What does the mindedness mean? Is that what that is in that underside? Yeah. Like people who are civic- minded, they care about the community, they participate in community functions. Um

but you know, and on on the you know on on the strictest sense like they come to town meeting day, but also they're just good citizens. Yeah. I didn't see the civic in front of it. Okay, got it. How about adding great local government? Well, governance is part of your infrastructure, isn't it? Opportunities to participate. Yeah, there we go. I was kind of being facitious, Alison.

No, but I mean governance is part of your infrastructure. And again, your local government is providing goods and ser services that nobody else can provide. I mean, technically like you probably contract with H2O, but I mean still it's your infrastructure. It is. We pay for it.

Yeah. Yeah. So any questions?

I don't think on vision statement. No. Okay, good. I do think I do the one thing we do need to make sure that we have a little bit more in the plan from what was in there before was on economic development because when we we went to apply for the flap grant a couple years ago, you know, they want to know in your in your town plan, how how is economic development tied to recreation and tied to all of this infrastructure that you're trying to fund? and we really didn't have anything in the plan that kind of met the you know I had one sentence I could pull out of there which didn't really give us a great score on that grant application.

So it is something that at some point in that plan we need to kind of make sure that that all ties together somewhere I have a place I can pull that out. um sales and receipts. Um is that that's probably one way, right? There's that. But you know, so the flap grant is for because we're the gateway to Sylvio National Wildlife Refuge. just thinking that but it comes up in a lot of grant applications as to you know explain show in your town plan how economic development is a priority of the community

and and our town plan is very light on that you know there's like a oh yes we want to contribute to economic development well great everybody says they want to contribute to it but I do think it needs to have a little bit more of a call out in there if we want to apply kinds of competitive grants because we're competing with with, you know, much bigger areas in Vermont for that kind of, right? Um, I also think that the timeline, let me see if I can bring that up because Oh, I don't want to click that. I would end up leaving the meeting room. Um,

we let you back in.

Yeah. Um the timeline your existing plan has a history of kind of like more of like a narrative of the planning um initiatives and I started putting it together. Let me find um okay here we go. gonna go and I guess this is just in um this is just in word now. So I think it would be more effective if we did a graphic and then we included wraparound photos for each of these. But um your existing plan ties the beginning of the planning initiatives to when Ethan Allen left town and you started to do this visioning. So I went back a little bit earlier, but um I also identified um the Island Pond Historic District because that was also instrumental in gaining village center designation later. So that was the earliest I I found. And then 1989 was when you did the island pond plan and it identifies um a commercial you have this advantage of having a commercial downtown on a lake shore and outdoor recreation opportunities. So again I maybe to highlight the your economic development section you can also show that you have you you know years of studies have identified this but have also you've

fallen followed through on these initiatives to build that identity. Um so but again we would also have to show stronger connection to we've got um like regional uh regionwide economic data that we could tie that into and we could probably get sales and receipts and some other anecdotal things to make that case. But I think the history of planning for it um I I don't know when the I know that the the uh train station was turned over to the town in in 1990 and it was renovated in the early 90s. I I couldn't find that date. Um your first ever village center designation. It's also um you did the pedestrian bridge and you rebuilt it and you also renovated the public library during that period. Um 2006 preliminary engineering sidewalk study. Um 2007 the Alen Pond welcome center. Um 2009 the stand study to integrate the lakeshore with the downtown Um 2013 the opera block 2016 the community visit. Um 17 um the better connections revitalization plan that was following up on the community visit. Um 2021 the scoping study. um downtown transportation board um awards in 2024, the wastewater treatment upgrade, and then I've got 2026 and beyond, the water system upgrades, um the replacement of water storm water infrastructure, tier one status,

potential utilization of the third floor of the opera block. Anything else? Do you want anything about the mer because we had a half million dollars in MUR MERP upgrades we're doing this year. Okay, I'll put that in cuz that's three of our town buildings that are getting energy. Okay. Do you have the walk path in there? Yes. And I think that 2024 park grant is the one that we're doing this year.

This one, the walking path from the pavilion to the waterfront. Yeah, that's Yeah, but there's another that one there is the DTF grant um for the but the walk path was separate from that. That was a That was a That was done grant. That was 2013 2013 that far. I think that's what it says on the herb. It So the walking path was done in 2013. Yes. The original walking path. Yes. It goes from um cross street to

goes into the park all the way to the back part of the park beach. The beach. Yeah. Okay. The new the new walk path is the new grant. That's that's this year's project which is connecting Cross Street to the dock. And the dock was part of the Vorac grant. Yep. So the Vorac grant is being carried out this year. No, no. Voric was When did we do the dock? How many years ago? 16. Seven. No, it has to be like 18 maybe. I would say five, six years ago. Yeah, five or six. I can look that up. I think it's more like six, six or seven because it was always

I have the Vorac grants on my computer. So, I'll just put a placeholder for here for Vorac and we'll find the date because Vorac was the thing that and then we gave it Yeah, because we had the aluminum dock. I think that was like that we gave to Northwoods Northwoods Stewardship Center. Yeah. Okay. So, the bottom line is ting

to show to show that recreation is a big part of your local economy. You can also show that you've been following this thread for decades and and you've been chipping away at it. That was the point of this timeline. Yep. I like that.

Okay. So, are there any other questions? Did she have the playground upgrade in there? Oh, yeah. The playground. Ah, okay. That was actually ARPA. ARPA paid for the playgrounds. Okay. That's what we used part of our ARPA funds for. So when did you use the ARPA funds? That would have been what year did that come out? 21. Yeah. But some people are still using them because of the way we sp we bought ours long. We bought that was the first project we did that and the Zoom equipment that we're using. Um Okay. And that would have been I can do it because I have the reports on it. I know exactly when we did it.

There's also a couple buildings in general services, small grants for the to maintain the tennis courts, the basketball court, things like that. I can't tell you the dates off, but okay. So, I'm putting these in for markers. So, we've got Vorac, we've got ARPA funds for the playground. It's uh 2021 and it was also paid for teleconferencing infrastructure and we've got um BGS grants for the tennis courts.

Should we put something? So the Brighton Community Forum is our public nonprofit here, but it has gotten for nine almost 10 years USDA RBDG grants to do the marketing promotion for all of the downtown businesses to revitalize the downtown. Mike, we also um upgraded the fire station. Oh, that's right. The fire station was upgraded, too. Yeah, we added a whole wing onto it. Yeah. When was the bright forum to um um RBDG, our first one was 17 and we've had one every year since. Well, every year.

Was Was the forum formed then? The forum is what owns the welcome center. was formed back in 2013 I think when they well yeah whatever year they built the welcome center 2007 I can send you the the docs okay so then the fire station upgraded the the forum came out of the forum came out of the take charge yes the take charge was way back um okay

take charge was take charge was right after right after uh Ethan Allen let go in 1991. They stayed in business, but they they did they didn't go out of business until 2000. I think we think of the forum was earlier.

The forum wasn't incorporated till like 2003, I think. Hold on. I can tell you when I I attended a take charge event. So, I started working for NVDA in 2003. So it was sometime around 2003 or 2004. Yeah, I would agree because the foot foot bridge was built in 2005. The walk path by the way came out of an NBRC northern region

like mine. So, the walking path was funded by NBRC. NBRC. Yep. But NBRC hasn't been around that long, has it? That was the I think that was the very first year. Okay. We were we were one of the first applicants.

Okay. If there was a grant, we went for it. How far back do they want the timeline going to go? What's that? How far back do they want the timeline to go? I I think they're just trying to get Yeah, I mean it's a good question because the Land and Water Conservation Fund bought the park.

So, um I had it going to 1979. That's just it was kind of like an artificial timeline. But I think the real it it to me from what I've read, it seems like the spark was the catalyst really was the exit of Ethan Allen or at least the announcement that they were leaving. And that was 8990. So you can put in there that we did put a new town garage in in 1990. Was it 91? 90 1990 91 was it New Town Garage? Garage. We also joined the

It was later than that, I think. I'm sorry. Um, was it the plaque says it was dedicated in ' 91, I believe. Well, Marty Friselle was on the board when that happened. So, we can go back and look when he was on the board. And then we and then we joined the uh Northeast Kingdom Waste Management District in ' 91. Brighton Community Forum was incorporated January 27th, 2003. What was what was incorporated? The community forum. Brighton Community Forum. And it was And I'm sorry I I didn't hear it was 2003.

Yes. So that must have been a result of Take Charge. Yes, it was. Okay.

Um, we also in the early 1990, I don't remember whether it came out of take charge or not, but that's when we got a a huge grant from VCDP. Is that already in there? That's when the uh we got a loan fund. We we put u the first playground was part of that. We had a playground before this playground. It was a wooden thing and that was that came out of that VCD grant along with a $200,000 revolving loan fund that we had. We hired an economic development coordinator, Joyce Weaselman, and uh her job was to seek people who might want to borrow some of that money at, you know, a lower interest rate. And her job was economic development coordinator. We didn't have any takers.

Oh, nobody nobody wanted to borrow low interest money to do anything, you know. We just didn't have don't I don't know why it didn't work but we ended up we ended up loaning some of that money. Actually we had one that was when the buck and dough we loaned $8,000 to the buck and dough. Well actually more than that. No that's what they paid back. We loaned them a big pile of money and they paid back $8,000. That $8,000 got used to provide microloans to small business a th000 or $2,000 each. who might want to do, you know, basement cottage industry or, you know, stuff like that.

So, you think that was early 2000s? No, I think that was in the 1990s. Okay. I can look it up. We have it. Okay. There was also a BCDP grant in the early 2000s and I thought it was for the library. Yes, it was. And it was also um didn't some of that also cover the architectural elements of of the upper block or was that a different grant? My time.

I don't think so. I don't remember that there was anything other that was strictly library I believe. Okay. Cuz there was a but there was a $600,000 facade. That was the new siding when we tore off all the old vinyl siding that had been there since 1980 and put on what what it looks like now. Yeah. Okay. That was six different funding sources.

Okay. Yeah. Because I've got that here somewhere. Let me say yeah. Uh 2013 town hall opera block undergoes a stunning $600,000 restoration project um preserving lost architectural features of the 1889 structure. Okay. Well, I thought I had it all and I clearly didn't. We'll come up with a few more things after we get off call.

Well, it's a good problem to have, but I also think that it is important um to show why planning is important and I think rather than just try to do it as a narrative, you just kind of build it into an exciting graphic and a timeline. So, yeah. Thank you. So, any other questions? Do you do you have the renovation of the depot? Yes, I do. Um Well, that's the one you didn't have a date for. I'm pretty sure that was I don't early 1990s.

Yeah, I think pretty sure it was 1991, 1992. Yeah, because it didn't look on the plants I'm working from because the um the rail station turned it over to the town in 1990, right? Yeah. I had 199 CN turned it over to the town for a dollar. Yeah. Okay. I don't You have 1992. 1992 is what you said. I Well, I that's what I thought it was, but does it have to be Is anybody verifying? Can we have a margin of error in there? Yeah, I think some of these have a margin of error.

I couldn't find the date that you got your first village center designation. I remember it, too, but I just can't remember the date anymore. If you give me a list of dates you want, I'll get you all the dates. Okay. Well, I'll try to um clean this up and send it over. 1993. Oh, 1993. All wrong. Yeah. Funny because I have a blueprint right here. We started that was started earlier, you know. Oh, yeah. I'm sure it was started because these are these are construction diagrams.

Well, if that's construction. Yeah. From 62 93. So, it must have been 92. Yeah. 90 91 92 somewhere in there. I mean, we had, you know, we had to go through the process of the railroad turning it over. That was a process. Then we had to have two architectural studies done. Yeah. You know, so these things don't happen overnight. Yeah. Oh, I know that. So, let's just make it a multi-year thing like 1990 to 1993. Sure. Okay. Who's going to argue with us? They go digging through all these filing cabinets here and find the right thing. And if they do, good for them. Yes.

Good for them. Great. Could you could pull that copy out for me so I don't have to go hunting for it again. Exactly. Okay. I think that's all I have. Okay. Thank you, Alison. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. See you next time. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um, next we have um Bruce Rumble is our new zoning administrator. And Bruce, would you like to say something? Nothing so far? No, nothing so far. Nothing on your plate yet? Okay. Well, we'll get you we'll get you something. Some backlogs of stuff. That's Give me more than three days on the job. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Bunch of emails to go through. Yeah. Yeah. All right, then we're moving right along to approve the minutes of the previous minute meeting. Is it here? No. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes of the previous meeting. Second. Second. All in favor? I I

um other business. I have other business. So, I got um a letter from uh Casey Talbot on the act 181 letter and they would like the select board to send a letter because what's going on here is I mean as far as the land, what these people can do with their land and stuff and so they there's a lot of rural communities that are writing letters to our representatives and stuff because I mean I can give you I I had this printed out. thought I was going to give it to the select board, but I guess I'm bringing it up now because I guess the select board should refer it to the select the planning board should refer it to the select board so that they you know work on this because I think it's very important that um a lot of the towns are closing their ATVs and their snowmobile trails because right they're not

Yeah, that's right. Stacy was talking about that. So, um I I mean I know snowmmoiling and ATVing maybe not as much, but snowmmoiling and is very important to this town. Yes. And I think it's a $55 million um income for the state. Yeah. So, and where do you think all the snowmoilers are going? Where? Mostly up here. Yeah. Exactly. Right. So, we get rid of those trails. It's going to be so I think that and I have I gave this to to Heather. She has it. Um and I had deleted it because

whole communities like Cabbat Vermont that have completely shut everything down. They have. They have. And I can name you a dozen more towns that have just done the same thing. The laying home. So, and I guess this letter has been um pretty I mean I don't I'm not going to read it to you but um what's it say on your thoughts? Um but I mean I don't even know how I could I could uh there should be something pretty clear in a letter. I mean this is a kind of a wide openen topic, right? I mean, what what letter do they actually want the select board to

Well, I will I will I'm going to send it to you. I I I I copy of it already. Yes. Okay. All right. The select board asked me about it and I said for them to refer it to you guys because you're the planning commission. Well, and that's what we're doing. We're referring it to the select board now and say that letter. No. Well, that's just it. You know, you're going to have there has to be just write a letter. We don't like Act 181. Can I tell you the state's not going to care? They don't care if you like it or not. You're gonna have to give a reason and somebody needs to formulate that reason. $55 million worth of industry for the state. But how is it impacting Brighton? It's going to impact us.

No, it's really not. And that's the thing is there is very little of our land that actually is not already conserved that's going to fall under this. It's not just about what's conserved. It's the right. I mean, you have half half our snowmobile trails here as access points with land owners, but we're not shutting down. Why don't you let all the other towns shut down their snowmobile trails and we keep ours open? Yeah, but how you going to But you can't do that. Act 181 is not an order to shut down your snowmobile trails. But the land owners can close it because they don't like it.

Yeah. That's what's happening. And the landowners are shutting everything down because now they're being told what to do with their land. It's the only weapon they have. Yeah. It's the only reasonable response. You're right. You want You want to tell me what to do with my land? Not yours. Yours. You're not carsing my land for nothing. That's right. And that's and that's what's happening. Yeah. Then what I I'm suggesting you guys draft a letter and give it to the select board because the select board is not really interested in in trying to formulate it. That's not what they're their primary job is a planning commission. Well, well,

in the all the other towns it's still like boards have planning but all these connecting trails they do all these connect Charleston does not have zoning nor I'm talking cabb I'm talking those towns but that's not who sent the letter Charleston sent us the letter that Charleston no Charleston Charleston Charleston is send us the letter uh I think this was from No, it came from Charleston from the Charleston town actually that um that's who it came from to the select board that they need to write this letter. And the thing is, we have a planning commission. You are in charge of zoning here. They do not have zoning. So, they don't have anybody that's going to be able to formulate a letter that's coming from the planning commission. They don't have that ability.

What does what does zoning have to do with shutting down trails? The landowners are shutting down trails. We have nothing to do with the land owner sending setting down trails. Act 181 has nothing to do with that. Act 181 is about their land and they're choosing to shut down trails. That's right. It's the only way they can fight back. That that particular land restrictions is a planning commission thing as far as we go. We have a planning commission. These other towns don't. It's it's mainly the tier three that they're complaining about,

right? And the majority of our tier three that we have is already conserved. it's already it already falls into those kinds of regulations as it is. So, it's really as far as Brighton itself goes, you know, as the state, yes, there's there's areas that it's going to have huge impacts to as far as Brighton goes. You guys just went through this. You just looked at those those land use maps. The vast majority of that land that falls in that tier three category is already conserved. 4,000 acres is owned by one conservation group out of Virginia. That ain't never getting developed. They're they don't care that they're telling them they can't do develop that land.

And so those are not the ones that I'm cons I'm not concerned about those. I'm concerned about the land owner as a a farmer or whatever who owns land and he's told that he cannot do whatever for 800 feet or whatever it is. through act 250. Exactly. Stupid. So those those are the people that I'm concerned about. But how many of those do we have in Brighton? It doesn't matter. It does matter because you're you're asking the town to take on a fight that the town has no no there's nothing for us to complain about. We don't have if all the outlying areas that connect to this town

shut down their trails should write that letter and ask the select board to sign it. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Because because all the every in order to get out of Brighton, you have to go through land owners lands to get to a connecting trail. Then by all means, the planning commission should get together and write that and that's going to hurt the economy of this town. Just say we're referring to the select board. Well, that is a plan. I didn't I didn't I no this is not the letter says they want to find because the select board is who does it in most of these towns we do not have zoning okay

we understand we have a planning commission that is your job I mean that is all right well you write the letter and I will sign I don't work for the planning commission well I'll hire you for a couple times I Well, from Brighton's point of view, to me, it seems like we're we're worried about the connect connectivity of our community with other communities through the vast system. And so, we're going to see a drop in people accessing the trail system into our town. Yes. as a result.

But can I tell you, I don't know that those arguments are the way that and I know that's what every town's going after because it's the emotional connection they want to make, but Act 181 has nothing to do with trails. I get that. And so, but I'm saying it doesn't matter as a pl formul I'm just sick and tired. I mean, I'm just I'm just venting here. I'm just sick and tired of the state telling us what we're going to do and and and and we have to everybody has to stand up here and fight back. I mean, enough is enough here. Enough is enough. What I can tell you is arguing like that the state will ignore. You're going to have to put it as a planning commission.

We need to vote. Here is the reason why this we are opposed to this. It needs to come from a planning perspective, not from a we don't like it because you're going to close down our snowmobile trails because they don't care is what I'm telling you. Think about it as a business. Stop. Take the emotion out of it. That's not No. And it's not only that. It's what it's from the state. The state will could lose millions of dollars. That's one point. state doesn't have any money as it is. Let's take that away. I know. You know,

it's got to come. I mean, if you want I mean, I I'll be quiet. You guys write whatever you want. What I'm telling you is if you want to be successful, you've got to start thinking like the state thinks, you know, look at the planning for the area. Well, you know, I don't know how to do that. Can't we talk about what's what specific because we don't agree with something and and because we want to fight back a little bit that's going to give the town a black eye to the state's eye if that's the way it is. That's sad. Well, that's sad. We do ask for a lot of

because we're going to get overrun by the state. We won't even be able to to to stand outside of our own house door without getting permission. That's what it's coming to. Oh boy. It's true. So, we're being inundated with all you're overreacting. You don't need Don't engage in wrong things, citizen. Years ago, nobody even realized it existed. Now, it has come to the forefront. And I guarantee you, they're going to repeal all the bad parts of it nobody likes. What I can tell you is if we completely destroy every part of this, we lose our downtown designation. That is all tied to this, which is where all of your grant funding that pays for But that doesn't make any sense. That does not make any sense to me what whatsoever.

So you they're going to take that away from us because we want to be able to bring recreation into this town. Act if act 181 goes away. Yes. It would take it away. If one act if act 181 fails. Yeah. And gets repealed completely. You know, not just the parts you don't like. They repeal the entire thing. Downtown designation is part of that. Downtown designation is what allows us to apply for millions of dollars in grants that fund all of our infrastructure here. The town cannot afford to pay for that infrastructure on its own.

Well, I think I do not reckon it doesn't make any sense. This is like you guys have designation before. Look at all the grants we got. Yeah. Right. So why are they going to take the grants away if we don't go with Act 181 is a revamp of the downtown designation law? They changed it. Doesn't say that. It is. That is part tier one that you're working on with this town plan. That is all part of Act 181. Act 181 is a major land use revitalization. So So and nobody bothered to read it. You guys

I understand that. But through the back through the back door now the state is going to be telling us what we can and cannot do. What I'm saying is is formulate a normal and blackmail us by saying we don't have a downtown designation because we don't approve.

What I'm saying is they're not going to specifically target us. They throw out Act 181. They throw out downtown designation. We no longer qualify for that addition. When I read one act 181, I wasn't too happy with what I was reading. The whole thing tier one, two, and three, just to let you know, that's how I feel. I've read it, and I think there's a lot of things in there that aren't good for you, you, you, and you. It's taking too many things away from us, the taxpayer. Well, you know,

that that's what you need to put into a letter. The point is this is all this discussion is it's running all over the place. You need to organize your thinking here. Get a letter, get a draft, put a draft letter together and put it before and bring it to your board and discuss the letter and then go from there. I mean, right? If there's things in there that you think don't shouldn't be in town, you need to put that's the argument you need to make. Take the emotion out of it because if all you're going to send is another ranting letter like these other towns are sending in, I'm not doing that. It's a waste of time. No, no, I understand that. No, you you have to be cordial. It's not that you have to be cordial. It's you have to be factual.

And what are the what are the specific what are the specific elements of 181 that most land owners are objecting to and h and and those are and that's going to create this economic problem in our in our community. Right. That's the what what's happening is and especially this tier three is they're encroaching on your rights as a land owner to be able to do what you want to do with your own land and eventually it's going to be so bad but we identify though

that you're not going to be able to afford to keep your land because of everything that's coming down I'm telling you what's coming down I'll be dead I don't care but eventually you're not going to have any control over your land they're going to tell you what they're going to do with your land. And I don't like that.

That's not how Vermont started. Vermont was a rural area and it grew little towns and little roads that were made with a farmer going to visit this guy and that guy and take the goods and and now that the government's trying to take that away and I don't like it. I don't like it. What I say is you got to pull out the things out of that list. And if I had known if id known what I read between these these three tiers and how upset I got over reading what I was reading that I think I would have gone and and and and tried to do something in Montpelia but it's too late. It's passed and and they kind of snuck it in and people didn't understand what they were doing and I don't like it. I don't like it. You

I never even heard of it until when I started when he started talking about tier one. I started reading about it and and they're trying to sculpt your state into what they envision and I don't like it. I don't agree with all the some of the stuff. Some of the stuff is good. Some of the stuff is a damn good good idea, but some of it they're they're trying to sculpt it to go their way and I don't like it. I think you should write the letter, Mark. That's what we need to put in with anything. I think we should all get together and write this letter.

If we put high highlights and stuff like that, AI can even rewrite it to exactly what you're getting too intrusive in my life, in my way of life, and I don't like it. That's too much socialism. I hate to use and I hate to use I hate to use that word. I hate to use that word, but basically that's what it's about. You need to make a list of specific things in that that you feel are are, you know, are and and you can laugh at me, Joel, be but I'm I'm I'm speaking that's laughing at your definition of socialism. If you want to know what socialism is, you should look it up. And that's not it.

No, it's getting too intrusive and your private stuff, your private land, your way of life that you came here to this state to live. And it's changing things that that they they are they are envisioning. And it's not the way our forefathers thought. Okay. So, we're gonna get together and we're gonna write this letter and never mind the select board. We're sending it. Okay. So, do we want to are we doing anything like wanting to set something now that we're all here? I don't want to do it right now.

No, no, no. I mean for another date or do we thinking of doing that on another date? Right. So, what do we want to think about meeting? Well, No, you can't. I know. I know. I mean, you can't have a meeting without it being worn. No, you cannot. You can't even even even have it worn. It's a warning. My house, it's still a meeting. Oh, boy. There. So, either way. Yeah. Anything with three-year-old? You warn. I don't know how to warn a letter. Yeah. Well, we just got to decide one. Yeah, that's easy part. So, when uh date,

all right, calendar. So, everybody looking at their calendar. Uh, today's the 4th. Do you want to do it just on another Monday? Um, our next meeting is the 18th. So, we'd have to do it be like on the 11th, 12, 13, 14. Maybe that during that week or the rest of this week, but maybe next week just cuz we got Let's do Yeah. So that way we can kind of go through it and see what we want and then we can just Right. Yeah.

So, uh it's going to have to be at night after 5. Do you have a um mark any meetings yourself like on a Tuesday or something like that? Tuesdays and I have uh third Tuesdays of every month is my water and sewer third. Okay. So that would have been that. So what about maybe the 13th? 13th or the 12th? Yeah. That's not There's no select board meeting, right? You're meeting is that the 13th is your I'm not on there anymore. Oh, yeah. Right. But is that anybody on there? No. Billy, is it It's not the 13th. 1 and 3. So 13th would be when

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. The first one is tomorrow and then and then it's 14 days. So it be the 20 at five 20th. So you're you're talking May 13th, which is a Wednesday at 5:00. Um

here. What's that? Are we having it here or Oh, well be Yeah. Yeah. What's happening? Does it have to be open to the public? It does have to be. If you guys meet the open meeting law in Vermont requires then we have to meet here. Yeah. All right. Well, you don't have to meet here. You can have an open meeting law. You can have an open meeting anywhere. You just have to warn it. Right. Right. We said Yeah. Yeah. Good way. We do it at your house, Marks. But yeah, but I mean I'll have it in my house. But the thing because this the the gym closes at 5. I mean, this place closes at 5. And you don't have this. I ain't worried about that. We can get it open. This has to be on. Oh, that has to be. So, you have to have it here,

right? Okay. I don't know how to use that. So, that'll be work. That'll be good. Too bad cuz I've got a perfectly good pub. Yeah, that would have been awesome. Be more fun there, too. Yeah. A few drinks into this letter. Get real good. Agree. Yeah. Drink a few beers first and then write the letter. It'll be great. That's when we really Yeah, we got PBR. Then it comes out, it becomes a novel. It's no longer a letter. Sorry. No, no. I I was reading something in the Chronicle where they they were going to backtrack some of this stuff. They are they're working on that. So, but we're not we're not hearing how much of it's going to be backtracked.

Yeah. Well, I don't you know what I mean? I don't think they know yet. They don't know yet. I think I think the majority of the the stuff that people are complaining I mean they can't even get the school thing straightened out. How are they going to get this straightened out? Yeah. I I've lost a lot of uh I think I think the tier three stuff is gonna get relaxed. I think they're gonna they're gonna change that stuff.

And I and it's one of I don't think anybody read the law when they wrote it and it was written by a bunch of planners and you know the planners don't live in reality. I mean there there's lots of of laws that get passed where you know people put things in process. We're going to talk real quick before we're done about um short-term rentals because I attended a thing about that. Oh, okay. Good question. And it's one of those people don't understand what it is once you you pass these things because they sound great on paper and then when you go to implement it, it's like, oh, we didn't think about that, right?

And I I don't think that there was any real nefarious plan with with this aquinium. I think somebody had this grand plan of, you know, they were going to, you know, update everything and think that they really thought it through. Yeah. And we pay these people to come up with these wonderful ideas. Well, trust me, you should work on a wastewater treatment plant sometime and see what those engineers can come up with. Yeah. Oh, because they're getting they're getting paid a percentage of everything that they're putting in. Don't you worry. And so I I do think that the ACT 250 stuff is gonna get way whacked back out of that. I hope so. The thing is, so you know, as much as you guys don't like certain things, there's other towns of the state that are all gung-ho for it. I mean,

well, I can name them, too. Well, that's very easy to tell you. Okay. Trust me. As we know, we don't they're not really Vermont, by the way, just so you know. No, no, no. Literally, there's some in the Northeast Kingdom because I sit on the NVDA board and I am on there with a bunch of that are absolutely opposed to that because they were listing areas in their town that could be eligible for development and they are adamantly opposed to it and they are creating havoc right now with with the land use maps because they want their town completely conserved, no development ever

because that's what they want. And I'm like really? So, you know that there are two sides to it. That's why I'm saying you got to take the emotion out of it and keep it the facts. You know, here is what is wrong with this law. Here's how we feel. This is why we feel it's incorrect. Not because I don't want to be told what to do with my land. That argument will get you. Well, no, I get that. But no,

because you know, we have zoning. Zoning tells people what they can and do can't do with their land because it's for the betterment of the community as a whole. And the state feels the same way about their act 181. And so it's our job to inform them as to what they should change and here is why. Okay. We'll be try to get that straight. Right Jeie? All right. You got anything else? So, I did attend I was at the town managers association conference last Friday and they had a presentation on short-term rental regulation. Okay.

And they had two towns for that presented. Woodstock being one of them and the other one was Stow. Two very different I mean similar kinds of towns but you know Woodstock is more similar sizewise to us. Mhm. And so they had this grand idea that they were going to regulate short-term rentals. So they passed all the short-term rental regulations and they, you know, they, oh, how is this going to get paid for? So for enforcement, oh well, we have 300 short-term rentals in town, which is about six times what we have,

I guess. And so they went through all of this. They bought this software to track it. $40,000. They spent Oh my god. to get ready to enforce this 17 properties registered at $500 a piece. So, they only got $8,000 in revenue to enforce this on Okay, they have to go find the other 200 and some odd properties. Who Who's doing that, right?

There's no money to pay for it. There's no money to pay for the staff person. So their, you know, their cautionary tale was unless you really have buy in from the community that they're they're interested in this or, you know, you have a big budget to pay for enforcement, steer clear because they they want to get rid of it now because it's just it's turned into a money pit for them. They paired that with Stow. So Stow had a whole different experience. So Stow had 900 short-term rentals they knew of in town in Stow. In Stow.

And so that the town really had no interest in regulating that. They did not want to get into that business. But the town's people were all gung-ho for it.

So the town agreed. They went through the process of creating this whole law for for doing short-term rental regulation. Put it to the voters. 800 people showed up for this town meeting vote and it lasted two and a half minutes. They called a vote and it was a unanimous yes, we want this. The town manager was like we were like they were prepared, you know, to defend themselves, you know, that this was coming from the vote. He said we didn't need anything that we had prepared for it. So they did this. They actually had 1,500 registrations. Wow. At $100 a piece. But what their thing was is you have to make sure you have that kind of quantity because for them, okay, it's paying for itself. They they have, you know, their assistant town manager that's $400 a year he spends doing regulation on short-term rentals. They spend $39,000 on software to track short-term rentals and do all of that stuff. So, but the the the answer out of for both of them, what they came back with was if you're a small town, you're you're going to want to steer clear of trying to do this because it the cost alone.

Yeah. I don't think we have enough. I mean, we don't I mean, and that's that's the point I was trying to make before. I could never figure out how are we paying for it because literally we don't have staff that's available to go. Well, I don't think we have that many. Burke did it a different way. that I had told you they made it the responsibility of the people that were doing the short term. They had to contact the fire marshall. They had to contact. They all do that. But how do you enforce it? There's a question to enforce it.

Well, this guy that Michael, I forgot his last name now from Burke that I had spoke to. He said that the first year they kind of just let it go. You know, they just kind of did the whole thing that they had to contact everybody, pay the whatever. And he said the next year they were realizing people weren't doing it. So the zoning he was doing it was going around and they were going to check to see the people that weren't registering to get the money. But it was it was still small. I think he had like a hundred or so 100 maybe over hundred now. It started small and then the next year more people did it. It's still a money loser in town. He didn't say anything about the software though. I was surprised about having to spend

Well, they're probably not. Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't the state track that through the meals tax? I mean meals and bed. You cannot get that you cannot get that information from the state. They will give it to you. Oh, that's interesting. from anybody. And if you're if you're doing it and you're it's not on the books, I mean, you're not so I mean, I don't know how many people that are collecting meals and room tax that are renting their houses. Yeah. If you do it through one of the if you do it through Airbnb automatically take it but if you're not you know it you know this guy's been renting from me for you know three years I'm you know pays me cashah

right right I mean and that's that's the reality is you know for a small town like us I I really caution that we never we never go down that road because simply there there's a cost you know you can say oh is the zoning administrator does well the zoning administrator gets paid a hourly rate to do that. Okay. Where's that money coming from? Looks complicated enough already. So, well, that's just it. I mean, that's my point is we don't have anybody with capacity to take that on.

I mean, like Stow, they have an assistant town manager. You know, they have a town manager and an assistant town manager and the assistant town manager devotes three to 400 hours per year. Okay. out of what his salary probably is and benefits and everything. It's a major cost. So yeah, it might look great that they take in a million and a half year in revenue, but I bet you they spend, you know, a good chunk of that. None of the conversation was they were making a profit of any of this after don't make the profit. Woodstock lost their shirts. I mean, Woodstock So it was what? 1,500 1,500 of them. And they only charge a hundred bucks a year. Yeah. For each one. Yeah, but

right that's just it. They're a whole different animal. It's a completely different economy. Yes. Yeah, I agree. And the and the thing is their people wanted to be part of that. You know, they were that as a community they were all in vision. I don't think if you the people here in town and say we want to regulate your Airbnb business, would you vote for it? What do you think you're gonna get for an answer on that? I bet you it's not going to be a yes. Maybe two. So I mean that's the reality. I mean and that's was what Stow's point was is you really unless the community is behind this and the owners of those properties are behind it.

Well, you could always like incentivize it by saying, you know, on the town website, you could be a mentioned as a as a possible, you know, venue for Airbnb or what or whatever it was. And who's going to do that? But do they do they you every town had a vote with their towns people though they wanted it or not? Yes. But we if it was to that point we would do the same thing then wouldn't we? We would have to. Yeah. Okay. I'm just I mean I don't think it would we I mean we don't have I mean they just have to they did they put it to their voters because I don't think there's enough. I mean I don't even know how many Airbnbs we have in this town. No because it's a secret. Well there's some that are on VBO or Airbnb. have a whole bunch of them that up.

I'll send you guys the I mean I probably send it to you last year, but there was the lodging study that we were part of. Okay. I think it's 50 to 100. Yeah, it's less than that. It's actually between 25 and 50 if I'm not mistaken of here. I thought it was Oh, for sure. It's about right. Is that definitely not 50 to 100? I thought it was around 37 or something. Yeah, we say 25. It's it's in that 25 to 50 range is what they because and they they did that. You know, they actually scope, you know, DBO and Airbnb. You know, there's a lot of people here that rent their houses out, but they don't actually put them on those sites. They That's right. You know, they'll just sink somebody, you know, and well, you Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

But it's just a safety thing, too. I mean, you we're all just forgetting that, you know, if a person like somebody I know that has 8 to 10 people in that house, you know, in the fire department is going to have to know how many people are in that house or whatever. It's the same. But they're but they're not going to know that, you know, it's it's a short-term rental. No, they would know that if they were registered. Yeah. But even if they were registered, they would have to say how many people because they won't because you can you can rent to and say, "Well, there's only going to be four people and then all of a sudden there's 10." Yeah.

Because if you I mean I because I know I rent in Florida. So if you say you're four people, you pay a certain amount, but now if you're six or eight or now you start paying more because there's more to to the rental company. Yeah. Well, because you mean like Airbnb or whatever. Right. Right. Right. And so that you if you're you you've got you're you're going to get more because now you've got more people in your house. So that's the only way they would know. But you know, when we did it when we did Airbnb and they would say only four people and then we found out there was eight people there like, "Hey, what? That's you're violating our That's right. Yeah. So you you're going to pay more for that." That's right. So we know they did that.

Yeah. Cuz you're using more beds. We have to do more laundry. That's right. happens all the pain in the neck. But the insurance companies might have something to say about it, too. Well, and that's the thing. And that so that's pretty much their on land owner. That's right. The the homeowner. Yeah. Their responsibility and they have to make sure that the insurance company knows that they're renting even if they're not on Airbnb. That's right. Exactly. Well, that's what happened with that house in Derby. Insurance is not cheap. No. Could we Oh, we had that special. The other thing I have Okay. short-term rental insurance. expensive. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing I have, Jean, and everybody else, a short-term rental person, when they come in here, they're going to come in here to enjoy themselves.

Mhm. So, that means if they have need a 2x4, they're going to go see you. Okay. Cuz that So, if we do something that takes a short-term rental out of here by we'll say you decide you're not going to do short-term rental anymore. Well, then the businesses that are doing short that depend on a short-term rental are going to lose out because people travel to Newport St. Johnsbury all the time and they're going they're have pick up two4 on a trip, you know, instead of going to you. Mhm. That's my feeling. Well, why why would a short-term person that's doing a rent renting get a 2x4? Well,

I think he was just using probably that'll be dining

economic impact. You know, if you start regulating people stop doing short-term well a lot of them. It is a lot of that's a lot of our income for the business. You know, that's where snowmoilers stay and that's where Right. Yeah. It might be a snowmobile out from you. I'm I'm just like I I just leave it alone. Yeah. That's another example of government telling people what they can do with their land. Right, Mark? That's right. Exactly. I don't I don't think we should That's the government. That's an interesting It was an interesting thing to presentation to sit through though to see that the two the two sides of that that coin. I mean, it was kind of cool how they did it. I was hoping they were going to send me the slide deck, but I got every other slide deck from the the

I just feel you're getting in, you know, getting into people's You know what? If somebody wants to make a couple thousand dollars renting their home to help pay the taxes, who cares, you know? Not as long as they're not next to me partying and having a big batch. That's a separate thing. Well, I have that doesn't have to be a second that doesn't have to be a short-term rental. You can have a neighbor that parties party right next door to you. Yeah, but I don't. So, lucky. Lucky, but it doesn't The thing is that house could sell tomorrow to a new person. It's a whole different raising roosters. Oh, true. You You should all check out the whole pub. Why is there a rooster

vacation rental in Hawaii? Cuz they're going through it and it's it's bad. And the irony is that most of the housing is actually zoned a. So nothing stops your neighbor from putting up 50 little teepeees to raise roosters or pigs or nothing nothing stops that they're focused on this vacation rental problem. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. I make emotion to turn. It's common to have hunting dogs chained to a burned out dead car in the front yard. Don't say that. and you know, but but we're worried about those vacation rentals.

All right. So, that's fine. We had a discussion. I'm I'm fine with it. I'm gonna try and get the slide deck and I'll send to you because that they actually had slides that showed their what what what what they actually dealt with, what it turned out to be. And I think it'd be fun to put it before the town. It was that it was that expensive to get that pull ring. Yes. Yes. And they actually so stow used it cheaper. Stows is based upon number of of rentals. So theirs was cheaper, right? But even with 17 rentals because Woodstock just signed up to switch to their software, it's still $9,000 a year

because it tracks all of those where you know that because it's great to say we're going to do it, but then somebody has to, you know, keep all track of all the dates and all of that. And so this software, right? And who's track and somebody if somebody isn't on Airbnb or VRB or whatever, how how are they tracking that? The assistant town manager does. Well, it's it just goes so we just have to hire an assistant town manager. Yeah. Then we just have 80 $90,000 a year. Like another hundred bucks on your property taxes. Yeah. For that. Yeah. Yeah. Just for that. And then like maybe another 250 to hire somebody else and then Yeah. buy some software. Yeah. Hey, 17 properties can register. Yeah, right. Yeah.

Oh, we could just p we could have them pay for it. So it' be like a $5,000 license. Yeah, because they're all going to be flying in here. 17. That would be enough money to So So Woodstock theirs. So their fee was $500 if you lived at the property. If you did not live there, it was a,000 or 1,500 to be for for a short-term rental business. Someone that ran. How could you live there and rent it? Well, because in there, you know, and you know, they rent a room house. Janine Clton her basement. Yep. Well, a bed and breakfast. People live there and they make you breakfast. Yeah.

Yeah. And how does yogurt kitchen has to be Did you hear that? Rentals for the whole summer. No wonder. How is that? I mean, it's Well, they handled Well, they they pay Don't they? They pay some kind of a tax to the state already on that. They're doing do they have meals and rooms tax on campgrounds? No, it's not. What about that? Well, I'm just telling you, how would how would that affect them? I mean, you you got short-term rentals right there. I mean, at least for the whole summer. Oh, yeah. They rent their campers. They rent their campers, too. Good question. Never really thought about that one. Hey, that's a whole bunch more. I'm just telling you, it's a it's a pit. It's a pit that's gonna

Yeah. Open up a can of 33 permanent sites there. I don't Let's open up. 33. That gets us to 50. All right. I make a motion to adjurnn for the second. We have to make a motion about the meeting that we're having. No. Oh, I guess the date and the time. Yeah. Just warning. We didn't have to warn. Yeah. Just warning. Okay. All right. Uh, oh, I we said five, but is that going to be okay for you? Because you're like a 5:30 per guy. Just say it. I'll make I'll make an exception. One time. One time. Okay. Don't be late.

I suggest you make the meeting start at 4:45. Oh, perfect. I'd like four. Then you explain to the cook at home, uh, why I'm late. Well, do you want to go at 4 then? No. All right. Start at 12:30. Over that 12:30. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So, any So, we're good. Second. I need a motion to adjurnn. I already I did. I didn't hear you. I have a second. Okay. All in favor? I meeting ajourn. Thank you. You made it twice and I seconded it twice. I don't know a word or something.