Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

sit like really now. Okay, I'm going to call the meeting to order. Take a little nap. Okay. Anything for update agenda? Is your stuff on the agenda, Joel? What's that? Is your stuff on the agenda? Yes, it is. Okay. All right. Okay. Um, public comment. Bruce, do you have anything for us? I'm pretty well set. Thank you. Okay. So, Allison, you don't have time to breathe. You're You're right on now. So, tell me. Yay. Can you hear me?

You bet. Y Okay. Um I a couple of things and thank you um for um inviting me. Um I know I've been um kind of busy lately. Um, I had a couple of questions for you regarding the town plan update and I had some slides I wanted to share with you. Um, but first

I just want to make sure we talked about possibly um seeking tier 1B status in parts of the the community. And remember that I shared with you some maps showing those areas that would have a partial exemption that would encourage housing development. And it was areas in in what is, you know, your existing designated village center and the areas around it. And I can I I have that map and I can share it with you again, but it's important for me to know that that is something that's of interest to you and it's something that you want to pursue in the town plan update. Is that a fair statement?

Yes. Yep. Okay. All right. So, let me You should be able to share now. Oh, perfect. Okay. Okay. And that requires us, as I recall, to have subdivision regulations. It requires you to have subdivision regulations. And since you're um promoting, how do I do this? Are you able to see that now? It's a common. I'm not seeing anything. I'm just seeing my screen. Yeah, I see. Yeah. Yeah, you have to. So, when you hit share, you have to then you should get the little window pops up and you have things to pick from.

I got it. I got it. Here we go. And now pick the one that you want to share. Okay. So, are are you all seeing this? This is

um this is what um Liam when he came up to meet with you this summer and I came with with you um to develop your future land use map and this is required for the regional plan. Um but it shows the the dark pink areas are your um village center areas. It's It's a little larger than what you have, but we have a little um we do have some leeway in um adding to that. So, the light pink area along Cross Street is what you currently have designated. We could add to that designation area running along Derby Street and Railroad Street. Um, so that would, you know, because those areas that you've zoned, you currently allow for higher densities and a and a vibrant mix of uses. So, um, we could extend those those boundaries. So, that's that's one one thing. Um, the other thing is I wonder if I can zoom in here because you don't have subdivision rags. The areas outlying the village center designations are shown as um many of them are shown um as just transition areas. those areas are not really subject to any potential benefit. Um, and they're also not subject to act um to um act 250 partial exemption if you were to adopt subdivision rags. And let me stop sharing and I'm going to bring up a different m slightly different map.

Okay. So now I go back to sharing window. Now, Liam just did an inset for me, and this is what I based. This is what I based the um the the housing analysis on, like where we could identify some areas for infill to create new housing opportunities. All of the areas that appear in the pinks would be either eligible for um village center um design well they'd be the like the dark pink the darkest pink would be your village center. Their second darkest pink would be a planned growth area. It would also be um eligible for partial exemption of act act 250. So, um, this, and again, this this was if you were to adopt subdivision rags. And the areas that are shown in the pink allow for either village or neighborhood scale dense development. Um, they have access to services or the potential for access to services. Um, you know, they have a certain degree of walkability. I know that some of those like sidewalks for example are in need of serious repair, but in theory there's some degree of walkability. These could all be like traditional neighborhoods. Um so that's what you'd be looking at for eligibility for act um from act 250.

So, I'm going to stop sharing that because um the next thing is your plan needs a future land use map. Um traditionally we did it by just showing a community zoning map, but that's not really going to communicate what your plans are here. Because if we just showed your zoning map, it's not going to really show the desired first of all the areas where you could encourage density or pursue partial act 250 exemption. On the other hand, you don't have to make your future land use map look just like ours. It doesn't have to be that complex. So what I was thinking of um both our map and your map follow the same essential concept and that is you follow a transct approach where you start with one area that's you know the densest and then you kind of graduate out with slightly less dense areas, less dense areas. is and then you graduate out to the open areas that you want to protect. And your zoning bylaws kind of follow that same configuration. And and so um looking at your zoning districts, um

there I thought that we could come up with land use categories for your future land use map. And again, I'm going to have to go back and share this screen. I'm not that for some reason I'm not that nimble on um Zoom tonight, but are you able to see all of this? Yep. All right.

Okay. So, I would just um and again using your zoning map as a future land use map is probably not a great idea because even though your zoning is supposed to reflect desired development pan plans that you document in your plan, you're trying to do a little bit more here. You're trying to really promote vibrancy of that village core in the neighborhood residential districts. And um you're trying to and you're also trying to accommodate housing targets which are really geared towards the um population centers. U you don't want them out in like your conservation lands. So um I just started with you know on the left hand side of this slide I have your v your existing land use districts that are in your zoning and then I thought we could do a variation on that where um and the ones on the right are the ones that we would show on your future land use out. So, um, and again, the first five, one, two, three, four, five, six, I'm sorry, categories would really follow that transact approach where you're starting with the most dense areas and then radiating out. And then you would have special consideration areas. And those are the areas like um have you have zoned for um industrial uses and um the shoreline overlay. Um I kept the lake land use

category separate only because you have some unique considerations there. So I want to go to the next slide to just explain what I'm thinking of of of how we might make this work. So your village, this would be your highest densities. This would include the legacy village center designation, but also it would include the areas that we're we're proposing that be added to it. you know, pending um our you know, the land use review board approving our map. Um and again, they would be intended to accommodate some of the highest densities in the in in the community. Um accommodate a broad mix of uses and then also encourage in some places more vertical development. Um, in the last meeting that I had with you, we talked possibly about revisiting that 40 foot limit for vertical development in some areas where you have densities where that 40t is is already surpassed. Um, and in you know, so some of those um some in some areas the the ver you know, allowing for vertical development particularly in the core would make sense. and everything in that category, you would have areas that you know it could be eligible for tier 1b the neighborhoods. So that's primarily your neighborhood residential um areas and with uh residential scale businesses and a lot of this is is is included in your neighborhood residential district. Um it's characterized as dense mostly served by water and sewer. some areas where there's one but not the other. Um there are opportunities for tying in. Um

there's opportunities as as we saw in the pre in in my previous visit with you for more infill and there are some areas that need better sidewalks and connectivity. I think it's like the one on Pleasant Street that is um kind of dangerous to walk on. So then um it would radiate out to the transition mixed area. And this is mostly um it's it's it's lower density, but it's it's more it's closer to 2 acres. Um it's mostly the development that's immediately adjacent to the higher density areas. Um that does allow for some businesses. It tends to be roadoriented. Um there are some um but again you know there are some businesses that that are allowed there. Um again we're mostly talking about rural residential. Um but again the the the areas don't need to line up perfectly. Then the rural lands, these range in in your lowest densities and some of them are very low with um special considerations given to your scenic resources and your high elevations. Your existing town plan has concerns in there for energy sighting, for ridge lines, for height considerations, things that can't exceed the tree line. I mean, if if we wanted to break this out into two categories, that's fine. Um, I just didn't see why we would both your rural lands district and your conservation district identifies um concerns about um certain resources that you would need to protect scenic viewsheds that need protection. How you protect them might differ from one

district to the other. So that's why I'm thinking it might make sense to just lump them together in a future land use map. And then the special consideration areas um industrial I mean that could include the areas that we identified as commercial enterprise. Um if so I would like to point out that we did not include the John Boland airport because it's not currently open year round. Um it's it's instead it's in rural general. it might make more sense for you to put it into industrial um because it is a it is a specialized use and then you have your

the airport's under control of the state so I don't think we have much of a say in that

right right so I mean I I'm fine just like putting in industrial or you know you could put it in a special category it just it doesn't really fit into your transact approach So, um, so there's that. And then the other special consideration is the lake. Um, you do allow for higher densities. You have, you know, it's you you're in a unique situation where you have offsite water, in some cases sewer at the lake. you um and your plan also notes um considerations for you actually have some commercial uses at the lake. So I didn't know if you really wanted those to be included in the tier 1B areas. So that's why I thought well maybe it makes sense to just keep that in its own category because it has its unique considerations. There's also a shoreland overlay. Um, but again, these are just suggestions. Um, one thing I didn't put in there is the historic district, but it might make sense to add that as well.

So, Allison, just want to see if I understand this correctly. This would these categories would be entered into the town plan. Yes. But they wouldn't be the same as what's in the zoning bylaw necessarily. Correct. Correct. The zoning bylaw is you have to meet, you know, the conditions in that district. Whereas these are sort of a tool to look ahead in the town plan for how we want things to develop in the future. Yes, that's basically what we're Yes.

But these would not control zoning. These would not be entered. These categories would not be entered into the zoning bylaw itself.

No, they would not control zoning, but they establish a logical basis for your zoning and and regulation decisions. And by doing this, you're also presenting a logical basis for adopting subdivision regulations because you're saying these are the areas where we want to pursue tier 1B in the future and we want to be able to encourage housing opportunities here, but we might want to apply special considerations to the lake, for example. Um it also would establish a logical basis for special considerations for um your high elevation areas and like the concerns that are cited in your like your energy sighting guidelines. Um so again the future land use map is not a zoning map but it establishes a logical basis for the overall patterns that you want to achieve with your zoning. whether or not your your zoning is doing that today or tomorrow, it establishes a logical basis for how you might want to tweak them in the future. Like,

so if we adding subdivision rags, so if we had some zoning bylaw that we came up with, it should have a basis in this.

Well, I think it's the other way around. This would establish a logical basis for for future changes that you would make to your zoning bylaw. Um, when you amend your zoning, it's supposed to well, yeah, but it's it's it's the it's your logical basis for future changes to your zoning. Um, so that and I know that you're already working on some changes and you know, like as soon as this gets adopted, hopefully you'll turn right around and start working on subdivision rags. But, you know, um whether or not you do that,

you're you're like queuing yourselves up for the changes that you what what you want to achieve. And I see language in your because I also look through your zoning and the objectives that are cited here there align with these categories too. I mean, it's you just don't have to use the labels that you use in your zoning districts and and I know that, you know, the devil is in the details and starting from these categories. So, I' I'd have to go back and and and actually work on a wall-size map and come back with you and meet with you all in person and look at it in comparison to your existing zoning and where you want to be and from there I you know, but I needed somewhere to start from.

So, does that make sense? Yes. These categories make sense. So the other thing is um how do you feel about um incl delineating your historic district as an overlay and your future land use map? Hard to know how what the impact would be of doing it one way or the other. Would if we did if we did it in the historic district, would that mean would it be exempt from act 250 for development in there?

It could. Um but if you were also concerned about exempting it from act 250, right,

then it might establish a logical basis for saying, you know, we want to exempt all of this except for that. Um I'm not quite sure how I know that you can't, for example, you can't spot zone with um tier 1B exemptions, but if you have a logical basis for not exempting something like an historic district, I don't see how that's spot zoning. I think that might make sense. Well, m much much of your mountain street area that's in your tier one exemption area is the historic district.

Yeah. The other thing is that you could just mention it in your in your land use plan and you could also site certain considerations that you should be taking when you draft subdivision rags. Usually when a community drafts subdivision rags, they're only thinking about the great big spaces and how they're going to be divided up. They're not thinking about how subdivision might occur in a smaller, more densely settled area. So, they're not paying attention to details like if you're going to be subdividing in this area, you want to make sure that you're allowing for improvements to sidewalks. You're not creating dangerous walking situations. you're not creating situations where um you know you're adding to traffic or or um adding to dangerous intersections. Um also for any new subdivisions that you want to make sure that new development maintains a certain streetfront orientation to respect that historic settlement pattern like no blank walls for example. So, you know, those things those those concerns, you could cite them in your town plan and then, you know, worry about the details about how you actually, you know, achieve those when you go to write your subdivision reg. That's another way to deal with it. But again, it's establishing that logical basis. So, if that makes sense to you, I'm thinking Joel nod, but I

I don't know. It doesn't mean I understand everything you're saying though. But I I don't know. Does everybody

I think it will make more sense um once we've developed a map, a proposed map, a big wall size map that we can compare alongside your existing zoning map and then also um print out like Liam's map for example, the area that shows the the spaces that could be eligible for tier 1b. I think then it will make sense. It doesn't mean that it won't be perfect. I think there's going to be a lot of, you know, drawing on the map and and all of that, but this I mean, it's good. It's it would allow us to really think long and hard about what that exemption to Act 250 would be. I mean, you know, that every town has ambitious housing targets. I'm not saying that you know they are aspirational in nature but it does it does require all of us to think about density and how we might even be able to stand a chance of meeting them even if it's just on the low end. So if you agree with this plan of attack, that's the you know that's that's how we'll proceed and I will also um develop a write up to accommodate it so we can look through that and you know delineate the plan and in many ways your your um map your your the I'm sorry the narrative in your town plan now talks about what the intend ed objectives of each zoning district. And this would this would dovetail with your zoning, but it's just again it's

separating the two maps. One is the the land use plan that's the logical basis from your existing zoning map and showing how they come together. I think Yeah, I I guess I'd have to see the map. Yeah. I mean, if you're you want from us to say go ahead with what you're talking about and you're not asking us to do anything really more than say sounds good proceed. Well, I wanted to win because Sorry. No, I just need to see. I'm not Oh, absolutely.

So, I think that's what we all need to see it and then kind of decide, I guess. I mean, that's for me, right? I don't know. somebody else. But that's what I need. Yeah, we need we need to see what you're talking about. Yeah. I just I felt like I had to share these categories with you first and and kind of telling you like where we're going with it, what the logic is because I don't want to get too far into the weeds on the mapping and then go, "Oh, we didn't want to take this approach at all."

Right. Um but yeah, this is I that that's good. Okay, so um I also had a couple of questions for you about strategies for documenting the benefit to wastewater system users. So, um I know that um I guess I would what I need to know there's a couple of different factors. Um it looks like of of the 2.8 million that was coming from the town, most of that is carried over in loans except for the 24,000 in cash. Right.

What are we talking about? I'm sorry. Wastewater. I'm sorry. I totally switched. What about wastewater? The plant. the new plan. Yeah. From what the financing So, what was your question about it again? Yeah. What's the question? So, I looked at, you know, your financing stack. Yes. And so, of the 2.8 million, it looks like most of it is is rolled over in loans that's coming from the town. So, that plant is actually 8.8 mill 8.6 million. Oh, no. I know. I'm I'm taking out the all the grants. Okay, I'm taking on everything that's our our part, right? Our part is 24,000. Okay.

2.145 million, isn't it? 2.145 million is USDA and then we're looking at about uh one well, we're going to be 3.756 million is going to be loans, right? It's going to be the bond. It's going to be because Yeah, it's going to be the full bond amount give or take a few give or take a few dollars because we're borrowing the rest from CWSRF to make up the difference. Oh, okay. Okay, I get it.

But theirs is not a theirs is not it. So, like there's when you look at what they've got us approved for, we're approved for like 1.9, I think, but 850,000 of that is subsidy. So, it comes back off after the first year. I got it. Okay. So, the figures are a little bit different then from what were in um the town plan update on the on the powerpoints cuz it looks like you've got about 800,000 coming in from Clean Water State Revolving Fund and about just a a little about a half of that looks like it's subsidy.

Oh, no. No, there's other will be the the subsidy on on them maxes out at $850 on construction and we're going to be right at that. Okay. Because we just added $600,000 to the project a couple months ago, right? But they had to redo the foundation. So that um Yeah. So, yeah. No, it will we'll be right at that $3.7 million range in a loan on that. Okay. So, so I'm wondering Yeah. How how much will my sewer bill be?

Lots lots of zone. Actually, your sewer bill is going down this month this next time. So, don't worry about it. It's going to be more ultimately ultimately actually surprisingly not not drastically because we've been budgeting for this. So we're I mean we're on a fiveyear budgeting with it. So So double it should have been more a long time ago. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure the property taxes should have been more a long time ago, too, judging by how quickly they've gone up. But well, that's re that's a reappraisal issue. Well, it's also an affordability issue, but that's a whole other thing. I'll bring it next time.

That's true. That's true. So, um, what I'm getting at is I'm trying to figure out

the best way to show not just the funding structure for the sewer, but how it impacts user fees over the long run, but also what are the thresholds we look at for adding new users and and to be able to demonstrate how that impacts user fees as well. So if we're adding more because we know that if we're adding more users to the system then um you know it you're going to reach a certain threshold where where user fees actually do go down even if you're still budgeting for capital improvements.

Yes. Yes. I would take a I mean so so what I can tell you you know when I'm projecting five years in the future so our current sewer rate is 215 a quarter and when we start making all of the bond payments you know we're looking at a 246 a quarter so it's about a $31 increase over a quarter so it's about $10 a month but you're assuming the same number of users

right and that is just it we are assuming the same number of users. So yes, if we added more users, we would actually be able to drive that rate down because the the rate is basically just divided by the number of users we have.

Okay. So what I'm trying to figure out, I don't think it's very compelling if we just took the housing targets as they are and just said, look, if we met all of these, because they are aspirational in nature, but if we were able to show if we met a certain fraction of them and what it would do to user to the user fees over time and maybe if we showed it in like five-year increments, I just don't know what that threshold is. I suspect it's somewhere between 50 to 75% of the low end, but I I just, you know, that's what I think might be convincing and compelling because that would also include multi-units. Um it would include some of the infill that is possible including like um you know like the VHIP investments if um and also if we are able to tie in like in and I would put this in the long run like in the 2050 target but if you were to able to add a couple of users through like chip Yeah.

So, that's I'm I'm just thinking if I were I would chip is community housing investment program

and um it was just rolled out this year. It's a statewide tax increment financing tool and for certain housing developments, you can you can use it um by working with the developer to pay for either um infrastructure upgrades or or actual um development fees. And you can finance it out of like the improvements, the increments to your tax base over a certain period of time. Generally, it would make sense if if you could pay it back in like five years because at some point you would like to retain all of those tax increases. But that's um the advantage of something like CHIP and is that um you don't have to establish a tax increment financing district on your own and do all of that headache.

It still sounds pretty much of a headache for the application process though. Oh my god, it's a headache. It it is um my hope is that um if a few developers go through the process that after they'll be able to figure out how to make it work more efficiently. That that's my hope. But anyways, it you know some that's why you know maybe increasing um part of that like going closer to like 75% of of your low-end target might make sense for the 2050.

There's there's another element here that actually was part of the agenda that maybe now is the time to talk about a little bit and that is when we talk about adding users to the system, we have to talk about it in term In light of how much capacity we have left in the system, which is also in our town sewer ordinance that the planning commission is supposed to consider that how much of our capacity do we have left for sewer and water should be permitted for industrial use or commercial use or residential use. So when we talk about housing targets and you put like what was our number 54 over some time or something like that I think it was.

Yeah. How many how many how much water and sewer does 54 new homes use and is that enough? Do we have enough capacity left for that? And if we do that is there any capacity left for anything else? That's only it just you know it's a question that has to come up and be addressed sooner or later. Yeah. So when somebody comes to to your town for a connection now, do they go to the planning commission? Do they consult with the planning commission? No, this water and sewer board.

Water and sewer board actually authorizes it based upon what they've been given as allocations for for residential or whatever. So, the planning commission is going to be tasked with determining what the alloc overall allocations are. Well, it says the town the ordinance the ordinance says that the town plan should address it. I think is how it's something like that. Doesn't specifically say that planning commission has authority to do it or to regulate it. Mhm. I I don't know exactly how that would work, but I think it's something that you want to think about. You you don't want to commit all your

existing res uncommitted reserve capacity for water to just residential and then somebody comes along and wants to open a beer factory,

which takes a lot of water. I think that it also makes sense that in our in our projections on for housing targets, I think it's safe to assume that a certain percentage of them might only be able to happen with something like CHIP, right? I some of them I think so because they they would need new connections made to them. You know, we'd be running new water lines, new lines. Y

they wouldn't necessarily be on existing served lots. they be adjacent to those but would not necessarily be I mean I'm thinking about like even like just for an example the the property that you guys looked at that was behind the oldtown garage you know we certainly have water and sewer right next to that field of of land there but there's nothing on it so we would have to construct water lines and sewer lines down there if somebody wanted to develop it somebody would have to so who pays for water connections. Is it the homeowner? Yes. It's usually the developer developer

or the developer or whoever. Okay. And and that's an instance where if if the developer wanted to go and put something into that that place that we visited and they, you know, put together cash flow projections for the housing development and then they said, you know, but the cost of extending water and sewer is too much. So that's a case where they might be able to build like a butt for cash flow statement to justify their borrowing money from this statewide tiff to pay back for the cost of extending water and sewer. Um, you know, they you might also be able to pay for some pedestrian amenities or

connections to recreation trails or path to the lake or something. But, you know, there's additional amenities that they can include in that financing without a developer. I mean it's hypothetical but

yeah I mean when they were talking about the chip thing and the question came up about the town garage having to add you know okay now you have this extended development you have more houses now and they said well if you had to buy a town truck and then you had to build a town garage to house the truck because now you have more people and more roads and everything. They said no. They they poo pooed that. But then who does pay for that if you in fact do need that? That that was the only

that's like the $64,000 question because nobody wants to pay for town garages and it's really frustrating. Um it there's a loan program through USDA and every once in a while, you know, you can be like the town of Newark and luck out and get like a CDS award, but no, nobody gets really excited about paying for town garages. But you need them. But you need them. And fire and fire engines, you know, and fire new fire stations, more people means more

more everything. Yeah. Well, and that that's that's why it always strikes me that with water, we don't with water and sewer, but we're talking about with infill, we don't have to build any new capital expenses really. It's very little. We want to use our uncommitted reserve capacity. We have enough, but we don't want to get into the point where because we're adding more houses somewhere, now we have to, oh god, now we need a new fire engine because we got, you know, more people to serve. Yeah. That's what we don't want to get into because then your development doesn't pay for itself,

right? Um, I wasn't hearing like regarding like emergency services, I wasn't hearing a hard no in that in that webinar. Yeah. I think the I think the program is too new for them to for you to just assume that like fire trucks and and first responders are excluded from this from this program. I I just for some reason nobody likes to pay for town garages and it is frustrating. But so anyway, you should go ahead with your the what you're working on, right?

Okay. And then we're going to Yeah. Good. Yep. Okay. And I do think we, you know, so I know you're talking about sewer and and lowering rates, but we're going to have the same issue with water because we have $9.6 million going out in water treatment plants, too. So, you know, that's another thing. We add users, we we help keep the rates down. Yeah. Because that when the rates do go up considerably to cover the debt on that and part of that's because we're not sure what the financing is going to look like yet. We don't have a package yet. So, I'm assuming 5050 grant loan, but you know, you never know. Right. Right.

They only got 42 on sewer and they bragged about it. What recommendations should I include regarding the sewer ordinance?

I don't What do you mean? Is it not? Um, well, it the the planning commission is tasked or at least somebody in the town is tasked with evaluating the sewer ordinance, right, to make sure that you don't exceed it. Right. Well, that's part of the town plan process. We're going to have to But we have no way to know at this point. We don't have any real numbers to work with. I mean, we could just say we could make up numbers. Everybody else does these days. Couldn't we could we set like a priority list you know that you know we give priority you know up to a certain percentage will go to housing and

you know you know kind of setting like okay these are kind of you know our soft kind of caps we don't want more than this going to this but you know we we want to leave flexibility that well we could if something better came along I mean it's dou it's doubtful that we will have a lot of industrial development.

I I have a hard time. I mean, we're 30 miles from the interstate. You know, we've got what we've got. I mean, we can hope, but although our whole thing is we'd rather have 10 small businesses employing 10 people each than one big business employing 100 people, right? and you know and and that's a that's really more realistic and it's it's it's of of that's of a good scale with a community your size. So I think that

do you are you looking for some percentage numbers of the remaining capacity that we should come up with? Well, I'm just trying to figure out a best way to evaluate it and pres I mean what about historically um ba basing it to a certain degree on historic permitting knowing that you have to increase you have to anticipate an increase in permitting for residential development if you stand a chance of even getting close to meeting your targets. Does that make sense?

Yeah. I mean, I especially I mean, I don't think we've added any real new water users except for residential in the last what 15 years, 20 years. I mean, we haven't added many in the way of like new business. I mean, we've changed businesses, but not like Right. Restaurant's a restaurant. It doesn't It's not like it's it's not like we added something that wasn't there already,

right? I mean, we could take the current proportion, split it and say do it like that. Whatever whatever percentage commercial has now of the of the total usage, just use the same percentages. Yeah. Why not? Are any of those commercial uses outside of your service area? Well, yeah, maybe. Right. Well, no, but I mean, what what would what difference would that make?

Well, it would just I'm just talking about the service area. Just limit it to the service area. In the service area, what percentage of the water consumption now is done by residential? What percentage is commercial? And what percentage is industrial? Okay. And then just use those numbers. I got to start somewhere. All right. Do you um do you keep your your permanent Well, actually, I think they're on a new website. I think it only has No, it only has the housing permits. It doesn't have any commercial.

We could break those numbers out for you pretty easy, I would think. Yeah, if you could because the the website that I have is only going to have the housing and that's not going to help me. Well, and we're only going to have permits for not not that many years back because we didn't used to require a permit, I don't believe. I'm just talking about using it looking at the consumption figures and the bearing figures, not permitting. Okay. Right. I mean, we can we can look we can pull that out of our our system. Ka Katie there on the table could could help us with that.

Okay. I mean just just for the hell of are you thinking of something like 70% residential and 30% probably not even well and then you know we need to cons figure out what are we considering commercial you know because some of those like I'm thinking of the old Buckando building which is actually apartments but then there's a laundromat in there and it's all the same account so Didn't we have to break out for one of the CWSRF applications? What I remember asking Teresa how many commercial users we had?

Yeah, we I can tell you how many B units we bill that we consider commercial, but that's what I was saying. Katie needs to go through that because it's not accurate in the building. We actually have more commercial than what it says we do. Yeah. I think we only 5%. Yeah. Yeah. It's not it's not a lot. I mean, I think the system only has like 22 accounts labeled as commercial accounts, but you know, there's commercial accounts that are just not labeled that way. And so, we really need to go through that list and just change. It's just a checkbox. It's not like it's anything complicated. The the rates are the same.

But, so, in other words, the preliminary engineering report that you did through the Clean Water State Revolving Fund wouldn't be very helpful. I can't say that it's going to be 100% accurate. Let's put it that way. Okay. Okay. Was given to us and we but you know we've we've worked more in water and sewer now. So I I can look through the billing system and see oh okay well that is definitely a business that is listed as residential. When I pull a list of commercial users there's a lot of names missing off that list and it's just they're simply encoded wrong. They're not they're they're in the system. They're just not coded correctly.

And part of it's just old. Yeah. You know, but it's probably also a negligible It's I'm thinking it's probably a negligible difference in most cases because they're probably drawing at a at a scale that would be similar to residential. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, they're few of them go way over there. Probably less. A lot of them probably less. Yeah. I mean, you get a a retail store. Well, for instance, our store, I mean, it's like there's a bathroom there, but who uses it? It's not like they're running a dishwasher and and a washing machine. I don't go all day long

right now. Now that you mention it, I But I'll use the water here now. Okay. All right. Are we being helpful?

I know. Um and um I had a couple because I've been working on an like organizing the draft of the plan and um there are some things that I wanted to just move around a bit. Do you because I think they're really great, but I think that they would be effective in other areas. Um, like there's a description of your land use patterns in the natural resources section. That is great. It it would be really helpful in the land use plan. The other one is the historic resources I think would be really helpful in in the land use plan. I mean, do you care if certain elements that fall under certain headings? Okay.

Oh, okay. Doesn't matter where they are. No, I think the plan could use a full white rewrite. Okay. All right. So, um I I can I can shut up now because I know that you it sounds like you guys have a pretty full agenda. I looked at it and I was like, "Oh my god." Yep. So, we all set. We'll move on. All right. Thank you, Allison. Thank you, Allison. Thank you. So the um actually the next one is the town plan for the water and sewer and which we just talked about. So we're good there. All right.

Just that we have to do that at some. Okay. So the zoning administer and administrator update talking to um Nick. He just had a few. There's like a certificate of occupancy permit. There's a new construction and there's a home business in storage close to their home. What business? It's a it's a home business in storage near their home. And I can tell you that uh the the little the the thing on Cedarwood Drive, the sign. Yeah. It's still there,

right? He's He's sending them something. Yeah, he's sending them a warning letter. Wood, right? What's But they didn't get it yet. He just did it today, I think. Oh, the the big Oh, he should have because he did another one. It's It's just It's a trailer with It's not even 100 square feet. Oh, he did do it. It's got something with doors, you know. It's And on the side of it, it's got his advertisement for motorcycles. Huge. Oh, well, when I look at it, it's probably maybe at most 10 feet by five feet on the on the sign itself. It's illegal. Yes. That's a pretty big I don't know saying five feet.

It's not a huge unit. It's just a sign. It's a snowmobile sign, isn't it? A snowmobile trailer. It's the trailer doesn't matter. It's the sign, right? But it's on that whole trailer. Yep. Well, the trailer that makes it a sign. If it's If it's a trailer, it can be towed. It can be impounded. Well, if it's a sign, then it's illegal and it can be torn down. So, pick one. Well, we're telling them they have to move to get rid of the sign. They can park the thing there if they want as long as it meets setbacks, but they can't have it as have it be a sign. and it is now functionally assigned and they have to get rid of it.

So we can't just go in there and haul it away ourselves. That would take a court order like on like paint or graphic onto the I have no idea. I What's different about that? So they have to move it somewhere where it will not be effectively a sign, right? I mean they could put it way in the back of their lot or something, but if they move it and park it in their driveway just so just move it back and leave it still a sign. They actually have a sign on the snowmobile trail. Yeah, it's on the snowmobile trailer. No, no, no. There is a sign on the snowmobile trail from my house to downtown. There's a sign. Oh, that Oh, by the store. I'm like the store. By the store. Not that. From my house to downtown there's a sign.

Oh. Oh, a sign on the snowmobile. Okay. On whose property? Well, it's around here. This place here. So, it's probably his property. I don't know that. I don't know that. Yeah, I don't know about that sign. All I know is that I don't care what it's mounted on, it's a sign, right? Yeah. Especially it's not doesn't meet sign requirements. So anyway, I just wanted to point out that it's still there. I don't know whether people live there now or the house was quiet when I was there. This is so today I think he took care of it because I have So he he's after this one here now after Um Beth been trying to the rose.

Oh yeah. Oh well Nick's got that now. Yeah. Okay. What is that ins? What is that? What are you looking at? Uh this one here. The shed that on blueberry. Oh, okay. I haven't seen that. Well, this was back with with Beth and they would never He's working on that. Yeah, that's good. Okay. All right.

Yep. And that's all I really had to say. Um he was sick, too. He was he was sick all week just about. Um so that's really it. Um there's there's one still on the bulletin board down in the foyer. So that's all we have right now. That's all he gave me. Um, is there anything else we want to talk about on that? We good? Mhm.

All right, moving on. Then we've got the downtown project. So, um, we'll be going into executive session in a little while for this because we're going to be possibly dealing with somebody that we'll have an agreement with, a contract with, and we don't want them to premature disclosure of our position would negatively affect our position. So, we don't want them to know exactly what our position is. Okay?

But we don't have to go in executive session yet. But this what this is about is we have two projects going on that are relative here. And one is the the water man from Mountain Street to Pleasant Street. The 100-y old water man that is we were told 10 years ago it needs to be replaced in a short-term basis. Mhm. Yep. It's still not replaced. And I just worry that I just worry about the line. I know.

And if we had a lot of time, uh, we don't know how much time we have for that line. And but I it's it's something to think about and and well, how it affects things is this is complicated. We need to to proceed. We don't want to tear the street up twice. Remember, right? Um, storm walk, storm drain, sidewalks in the water man are part of the downtown project. We don't want to tear the street up twice. So, we have to do this all at once. If we want to move on the water line, the thing that's holding us up in the downtown project is the utility pole question. You're right.

Where? because the plan called for creating sidewalks on the lakeside of of Cross Street and that's where the poles are and the plan said that the poles are in the way if we want to build a regular old sidewalk there. We do not want to build a sidewalk around telephone poles.

It's crazy, but it would cost. So, we went to the electric company. We said, "What can we do with these poles?" and they went, "Oh, you know, well, we could move them to Alder Street. $2 million the town has to pay." So, we go to the attorney and we say, "Yeah, do we have to pay for this?" And the attorney says basically if it's a highway reconstruction project primarily, even if it has an aesthetic improvement as a result, if it's mainly a highway reconstruction project, the utilities have to pay the cost of moving the poles or moving their equipment. All reasonable costs. So typically I think that means moving a sewer line from here over to here or from here over to here or something like that. But we're asking them to move those poles a freaking city block.

Yeah, it is. So um they are bulky. We could go to court then here's I think now is when we have to go into executive session. Okay. So are you going they're going to need to make a motion to do that? I'll make a motion to go into executives on the basis of premature knowledge would negatively affect our position. Right. Can I just ask a a quick question because um I was staying because I think you wanted to talk about short-term rentals, the proposed regulations from from the town of Burke. Um

we we did you know what? I forgot my paperwork. that that whole draft that whole draft that I had I had all these papers and I forgot it. So I I think we could shove that for now because we were still but we'll do it. We have a meeting the next following Monday which is March 1st. I don't know if that is our um town meeting information session. I thought I thought our town meeting ours too. Yeah, ours too. So we won't have first on the Monday or Tuesday. Monday night is the information. Right. Right. Okay. So, we don't even have that meeting. Wow. I mean, it's in another one. Yeah, we can shell that for now, I think. Yeah.

Okay. So, if that's the case, then I'll sign off. I certainly have my marching orders. Good night. Thanks, Al. So, are we in executive session? Okay, hold on. She made the motion. Somebody seconded today. I'll approve it. Yep. Yes. Yes. Okay. the the record will show that. Yeah. So, all right. And now we approve the minutes. Yes. Um approve the minutes of the previous meeting. I'll make a motion. We approve the minutes to the previous meeting that wasn't yet. And I will second in favor.

Yay. So, who needs this for who's doing Katie does the minutes for you guys? Katie does the minutes for the plan. So, I just got to let her know. I don't know. She'll just need to know who motioned and who. I don't know. I don't have her email or anything. Administrator. Just leave it there in the office. Just leave it there in the office. Yeah. Leave it on my desk. Use administrative one or something like that. Okay. So, the other thing here is the other business. And do we want to make up a a meeting since we're not having that Monday meeting? Oh, yeah. What's the calendar look like over there? Because I mean go to your next regular really. Yeah. Think I mean right you know unless you want to have one.

No, I'm just worried about you know like for you wanted to do another meeting you'd have to do it on a Thursday night the following Thursday instead of Monday Thursday. I'm sorry. What? Say it again. Instead of having it Monday the first I just want you have to have it what fourth fifth whatever Thursday is. So Sunday's the 1st, Monday's the second, Tuesday's the third, Wednesday's the fourth, Thursday's the fifth. Yeah. So you'd have to do it to the the fifth in order to have it meetings on having two weeks right in a row.

I mean, you could do it could do it the following Monday. I mean, what's the problem with having two meetings in a row? It depends on how much you think you have to get done. Yeah, it we couldn't do it that way. when you like do it on the ETH. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. And then I mean actually tonight, but then we're going to end up having the other meeting on this the the following week again. That's right. You'd have two two Mondays in a row. God, I hope I get a raise. Well, you have a lot of stuff. You have a lot of stuff. We did get a raise, right? Yeah. Yeah, we did. We didn't get it till next They doubled it. Well, they didn't they didn't pass the budget yet, so don't count your don't count your

rubles before they Well, if they go down to a threeperson board, that'll help. That'll help the budget. Yeah, that's right. $5,000 anyway. Yeah, I'm all about saving money for the All right, then. So, we're just going to keep the regular meeting, scheduled meeting. Okay, you can call one. If you need to call one, you can call one special. So, when is the The special meet the would be March 1st. Yeah, but we're not doing that March 1st. So, and we're not doing the 8th because we're doing the 15th 18th of March. Okay. 15th of March. You're going to be here? Yeah. I leave the 19th or the 20th. All right. Okay.

But I mean I I will zoom in for the meetings because you know I'm just so dedicated. Yeah. I have Florida. I have to too. So you're going down there with all the Burmese pythons and komodo dragons. Yeah, whatever. I know it's warm. So that meeting are will be March 15th. 16th. 16. Okay. How long you going to be in Florida? I come back uh I think uh that's tough. Um 20 we Oh, February. All right. Flip over another this one here.

Yeah. Uh I'll be back uh April 20. I'd leave the 24th. So I'll be here the 27th. Oh god, that's a lot of meetings. Well, yeah. All right. All right. Um, so and if I have to, I'll zoom into my select more meeting. Are we going to adjourn? Oh, can I can I give you one more one more just thing that we're going to need to talk about at your next meeting? So, I discovered that the park grant that we had received while Noah was there.

Yep. Turns out we still have that grant open. We never actually he never closed it. He never turned anything into it. And so it's $148,000 for the work around the pavilion in the park and to create the cement pad for the dock to rest on and a walk path down to there. But we kind of need to revisit that project and make sure because there was a lot of stuff in there that I think we need to cut out. It's not we're not going to get enough money to do all of that. And there was a lot of landscaping. I remember that was an issue the snowmobile club and you know can we simplify the project with maintain all that right

you know for 20% too right for us to go through that and say okay this still we could still meet the the scope of work that was turned in and get the grant money without like having to go back and re rework all that because they're kind of expecting that we've been working on this for the last year that we didn't know We actually still had it. Um, maybe we could use that money to move some poles. Move poles. There you go. Or buy new poles with that money. Put poles in the uh in the park. I mean, why not? Why not? So, I'll I'll get that ready because I just found that I got a letter from the state. So, I won't

talking about what? Oh, yeah. They won't be that paran. We're kind of busy. I'll show you in a minute. Uh so are we done? Yes, we All right. We are journed. Okay. All right. Um. Um.