Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

All righty. Yeah.

Alrighty. Well, uh, welcome everybody. This is the, uh, uh, planning commission meeting for Tuesday, May 5th, 2026. And, uh, I'd like to call to order right now, uh, our our commission. If I could get uh Commissioner Barl to uh do the pledge of allegiance, I appreciate that. All right. All right. Well, thank you. Okay. Could I get a roll call, please?

Chairperson Anderson, here. Vice Chairperson Pacio here. Commissioner Frell here. Commissioner Heath here. Commissioner Jones here. Commissioner Keane here. Commissioner Ali is absent. Six present, one absent.

Perfect. Thank you very much. Um if you're attending in person or listening to the commission meeting tonight, welcome. All right. Uh we're going to open public comment right now. This portion of the meeting is repres is reserved for persons wishing to address the commission on any matter that's not on the agenda and over which the commission has jurisdiction. Speakers are limited to three minutes. Please state your name for the record before making your presentation. Looks like we have someone Hello. I think you need to push the button right there to turn the mic on. Welcome.

Thank you very much. How are y'all tonight? My name is Heather Howell. Uh I'm a resident here in Atascadero. I've lived here for 10 years and on the coast for 36. Um I love our town. Thank you for what you do for us here. all of you for your service. Uh I'm here tonight because I'm concerned about what's going on on El Camino Royale at the North at Del Rio. Uh you know, it's it's just so much buildout and um I went to I remember the planning meeting at the lake where we got to see all the what was coming to us and make comments and so on. But I don't remember, you know, it being described that way. And I would really have questions about the main thing is with that many units being built in on, you know, on the north end of El Camino Royale and Del Rio, are there enough is there is the traffic has that been considered, parking considered, air quality considered? and particularly about um public space for children and sidewalks. There's no place for our young mothers and there are a lot of them suddenly young mothers and their strollers and the babies to to play. There's nowhere except our park here and there's one little tiny pocket park off of Del Rio but it's kind of in a housing development. I don't know if it's so I'm just asking can it be put or has have any of these new developments been required to provide any type of public space you know for the public since they're bringing in people to crowd our community. Has anything like that been asked of them? And that's my main question.

Thank you. Um, with that we could address staff to see if any of that has been done and you want to comment on that.

Thank you, chair, and good evening, commission. And um, thank you for bringing these items up and playing a part in our process. There's been extensive planning and environmental review done on that commercial node. I'm calling that a commercial node because it's one of several commercial nodes in the city that already have planned development. And at Del Rio, there's the uh Del Rio Marketplace, which has the Valley Fresh Shopping Center, and it has the mixeduse projects um across the freeway. There's the Barrel Creek project, which is completely vacant at this point and hasn't started construction. And then there's Del Rio Ranch, which has an RV uh resort proposed on it, and that's not developed yet. So, the question here was, have we considered traffic? Have we considered the environmental impacts? Yes, there was an EIR prepared some years ago for the Walmart project which was far more extensive than all of these projects, but instead it got replaced with less traffic intensive uses such as the supermarket and the mixeduse projects and we did an addendum to that environmental impact report and we did follow-up analysis to demonstrate that these uses can all fit. Now, at some point, we are going to reach capacity at the Del Rio overpass and then development will have to stop. And we know where those numbers are, but that's somewhat in the future given the fact that Barrel Creek's not developed yet and Del Rio Ranch isn't developed yet. And there's still capacity for more commercial development and more residential units uh moving forward. And the roads will be gradually improved to meet those demands as we move forward. So, a lot has been planned here, years of thought, and it's finally coming to fruition.

Thank you, Phil. Yeah. Um, well, I think all of this stuff is available in the uh in the planning department for people to review, but as it's being pushed forward, so any comments in the future, especially about play areas, would be available to to review and come before the planning commission if any changes were requested. And as always, I always welcome people to come by our department. Don't be shy. Uh we've got several planners available to talk to you. We can show you the plans of what's proposed. We can show you the environmental analysis and we can talk to you in person, one-on-one about the future of Atascadero at this location and any other location in the community. We also have an event coming up once a month called Planner with a Coffee I call it, but it's really called Coffee with a Planner. But we have those either at Malibu Brew or at Amsterdam Coffee. And our next one is on May 3rd Thursday in May, which is May something. So that's coming up soon. Keep an eye out for coffee with the planner at Malibu Brew this this next time. And we're going to probably be talking about accessory dwelling units and urban dwelling units and what you can do on your residential property because that's always a question we get all the time in our department. But we can talk about other zoning stuff as well. So, those are always fun and you can actually just ask us anything um at those particular openhouse style planning chats.

Yeah, I went to the last one. It was it was really nice. It's very comfortable, relaxed, and uh you know, you can ask him anything. Doesn't have to be even about planning. So,

so in regards to the sidewalks and the parks, um we uh we definitely do ask about that during um plant when they come give their presentations, but I don't know that we can require those things. We can encourage them, but we can't mandate that they build a park on their development. Um but sidewalks are definitely a thing that um go in. And I know Valley Fresh has a ton of well that uh development has a bunch of sidewalks around it, but extending it past the property boundaries is a whole another thing. Um but parks and pedestrian friendly areas in these new developments is definitely a thing that we talk about when we're we're being asked for approval on stuff. And um sorry just to come chime in here. I just want to remind uh the commission that this item is not presently on the agenda. So if we do want to have a more robust discussion um that should be brought up with staff and placed on a future agenda.

Thank you. Thank you. If any comments need to be made m ational. It's not a request for a condition. There's actually quite a lovely and underutilized park right off of Del Rio called Apple Valley Park and it's much more conducive to the type of user that you're discussing. Perfect. Thank you. A lot of people don't know that that little jewel tucked away and uh well, thank you very much. And if we can uh if anybody would like to request uh a more robust discussion on that, we can certainly ask to have it put on the agenda for next uh next time around. If anybody would request that Yeah. Okay. We get a request from Commissioner Pesio to go ahead.

Yeah. Do you want to go ahead and request it? You can address it. Yeah. I would love to hear about the process of parks, how they're developed uh in our town um and sidewalks as well. the process that you go through for those sorts of improvements. I I do know that there are some property or some cities that require certain public dedications when um the properties developed. Um like maybe some background on that as well and whether or not we have anything like that in the city. Thank you, Commissioner. Um I think

Sorry. Yes. Um, we would take a vote on that and I believe it I mean it would be up to staff's discretion, but this does sound like more of anformational item um to be placed on a future agenda. Yeah, I I think that's I think that's just what we're asking is what the process is and what it it details. I know public parks are very expensive once they're put in. So, uh we want to make sure there's a lot of discussion on that. So maybe just a littleformational uh uh blurb at our next meeting to kind of give the process so that Heather can be addressed on that. And I would recommend let's do it as a motion in a second just so that we have that on the record. Oh, perfect. Yes. Thank you. We have a motion. So moved.

So move. Okay. We have a move. Commissioner Jones moves. And um yeah, I'll second. You second. So, we have a motion. We have a second. Do you want to go ahead and uh take a roll call, please? Commissioner Jones, hi. Vice Chairperson Pacio, yes. Chairperson Anderson, yes. Commissioner Frell, yes. Commissioner Heath, yes. Commissioner Keane, yes. Motion passes. All right. So, congratulations. Your item has been agenda. We'll see you at the next meeting.

And thank you. Thank you, commission. And um what you can expect from staff is we're not going to give you a report, but we're going to bring you a presentation and we're going to invite our public works u someone from our public works team as well because this is a a big portion of what they do is the public lands, the public parks, the sidewalks, the streets and um together we can tell you how these things happen and how they get dedicated, how they get built, how they get funded and how difficult that process is. So this is good. This is really educational. I learned from these as well. So, it'll be a good good chat and um we will schedule that for a hearing coming your way soon. Perfect. And we'll let you know what date that can be on. Thank you very much.

Yeah. If it's not at the next meeting, just let us know when. That way we can uh give you guys plenty of time to prepare.

Um it's it's good because these are things are recorded and people can go back and and review them and you don't have to do the work over and over again. So, thank you. All righty. I'll go ahead and uh move on to public comment for the consent calendar. Do we have any uh public comment for that? Seeing none, we'll go ahead and close public comment for the consent calendar. Do any members of the commission like to discuss anything on the consent calendar? I'll be abstaining from the minute vote since I had to depart halfway through the meeting. Okay. All right. Let's go ahead and uh get a motion to accept the consent calendar. Anybody like to make a motion?

I motion the approval of the consent calendar. Okay, I'll second. Commissioner Frell makes a motion. Commissioner Picio seconds it. Can I get a roll call, please? Did you do that right? Did I Did I get that in right order? Thank you. Okay. I got a nod from the attorney, so we're good. Commissioner Frell, yes. Vice Chairperson Pachio, yes. Chairperson Anderson, yes. Commissioner Heath, yes. Uh, Commissioner Jones abstains. Commissioner Keane, I'm also going to abstain because I wasn't here. Thank you. Uh, motion passes.

Alrighty. Okay, moving on. Um, is there any is there any planning commission business? I don't believe there is. No, nothing that you would guys would like to bring up. All right. Fantastic. Well, seeing none, we'll go ahead and move on from that. And at this point, we're going to go ahead and uh ask our community development uh director to give us his staff report. Thank you, chair, and good evening again, commission, and I'm very proud to present to you another portion of our upcoming zoning regulations to you tonight. We did present similar material to our city council last Tuesday. And I'm also really happy to announce that um we have released our draft environmental impact report for the general plan update and the zoning code update. And it's out for public review. We actually have a physical copy at the library here in Tascadero. We have a physical copy at our public counter and it's also online on our website for review and um that comment period is 45 days and runs through June six. So for the month of May it's EI month and you're welcome to read that. It's a great publication. We spent ages uh Taylor to my right Kelly to my left spent an enormous amount of time editing uh and making sure it's perfect. Hope it is. And um without further ado though, let's talk about zoning. And tonight we're going to talk about a couple little other sections. Tonight the discussions about commercial zones, nonresidential zoning districts, what's allowed in them and some of the nuances and changes. Now, I will say that three of you do have conflicts of interest in some of these specific zones. I'm going to try and tell you where those are at. I think you um understand where those conflicts are, but um there was some borders in this presentation that showed us where those

bifurcations are. I may have removed those accidentally right before the hearing. So hopefully we can get get to that, not break any rules, and make sure that we have have you step out. When you do step out, um you'll need to step out of the room so that we can't see you and um for that portion. And then you can also you can watch this discussion online if you want or you can listen and come back in um we can go from there. Anyway, if this is about commercial add one thing um if when when and if you do recuse yourself just please briefly state the reason for the recusal. Just let me get No, when you get to that portion. Okay. Thank you.

I'm confused. We're not taking action. We're receiving We aren't. So this isformational tonight. there's a recusal standard for information without taking action.

I'm happy to talk about this. This is what we've been the process we've been choosing for both council and planning commission because the zoning code update is not yet set in stone. There is some some opportunity for influence on these various decisions. So, we want to remove any possibility of influencing those when you have a conflict. So, that's how why we're proceeding in this manner. In the draft general plan that's out for public review, there's three commercial districts. We also have another commercial district that we've already talked about. That's our mixeduse district. And of course, there's our downtown. Those aren't part of discussion tonight. Those were discussed previously. So, tonight there's these three what I'll call place types or land use districts. There's the commercial, the innovation flex, and the industrial. Now, when it comes to zoning, you can have multiple zoning districts in one land use district or one place type. And that's what we've done here. So, in the commercial, there's a commercial zoning district and a commercial service zoning district all within that commercial place type. And then in the innovation flex in zoning is going to be called commercial innovation. Industrial, that's easy. Go straight across as industrial. So a little about discussion about what these are and kind of we have some imagery as well here about what they look like. The defining features in the innovation flex zone which is the commercial innovation zoning district is essentially an employment center. It's a for a mix of job types. um things like research and design labs, robotics and technology, artisan businesses, even a someone that has a micro brewery or a smallcale winery or if there's someone who's a bread maker or they're making products that um you know they have a

small retail portion as well. So this sort of uh takes place of what we have right now in our commercial park zone where we have Joella coffee and other uses like that. very similar. Not a significant change here, but again, we're kind of furthering what the future demands are for these rollup door spaces. Um, a lot of this zoning district will exist um in place of the commercial park zoning district along El Camino in those areas uh near Highway 101. Industrial, that district isn't changing its location. industrial is what it is today and it always has been in our city based on where the railroad was placed many years ago and that's on along traffic way and sycamore roads areas that also have access to highway 41 these are the areas where you have a higher intensity of land uses uh you have you know more intensive manufacturing you have probably more screening from the public right away and you have more of a storage type use in some cases So, here's a map of what we have existing. What's highlighted on here is just the commercial districts. You look at all that land in the city. It's pretty big city in terms of geographical land. The areas in color there, the magenta, the red, the purple, that's it for our commercial zone. Um, and you can see it spread along the El Camino Rail corridor. This does not include or highlight our mixeduse districts on Marorrow Road, nor does it include the area of downtown and the mixeduse districts adjacent to it. So, it's a bit misleading because those are also generally from a baseline a commercial zoning district. So, proposed colors change a bit, the land uses get updated a little bit, but our city really isn't changing a lot with this new general plan. We're modernizing the land uses. We're looking

adapting to the future. We're looking at mixing more uses. We're looking at streamlining review processes and we're looking at making it easier to get economic development in our community. Those are the key things and those are the key comments we've heard from both the community and from the city council. So simplify and clarify. Look at those words. Like it I like it when it's when it comes across like that. So we right now we've got multiple commercial districts commercial neighborhood, commercial terrorist, commercial professional, commercial unprofessional. No, we don't have that one. Um, but anyway, those are all going to get abbreviated to future commercial district, one district. Commercial service stays. Commercial park, like I mentioned, becomes commercial innovation. Industrial stays as it as it was intended. So here is where we have a little bit of a um this where we have the first not bifurcation. No okay we can all talk about this one. So what I did is I abbreviated sort of the purpose of the commercial innovation zoning district. It's really established to facilitate employment and commerce. Um, it's it's where we have the production design and maker space, emerging technologies and space innovations, light industrial manufacturing, but also could be retail spaces and spaces to visit. Um, something that's visually active with adaptable frontages. Um, you know, Tin City in in Pasa Robels or Templeton was developed as this kind of a zoning. it decided to become, you know, what I call uh tourism industrial. And this is kind of like this zone. It could be industrial, but it could be something else. This isn't the zone where we have outdoor storage uses um

except very limited qualities and subject to discretionary review. And these are some imagery of what we would expect in this kind of a district. And this is where those locations would be as I mentioned uh taking place of that commercial park district between El Camino Highway 101 north of Del Rio Road. There's a bit and then there's a portion um that's within um Barrel Creek, but I'm not seeing this. There's also a section Reason I paused there, Kelly, was there's also a section south. Oh, no. we change it to mixed use. Oh, is it coming up next? So, these are the ex this map right here shows you don't think of zoning. What you're looking at here is actually what's existing on the ground. Um, the yellow there's actually some residential uses mixed in there. There's some multi well I don't think there's multif family says that there's some commercial in there. There's a bit of industrial in there. Um, it kind of shows what's on the ground. So, here's here's what's on the ground visually. The lovely storage use there just north of Del Rio. We've got a former residence that's in there that turned into an office. Um, we've got some sales yards. We've got some actual um kind of commercial park and this is kind of our new innovation flex and that's where Jobella Copy is. And we've got some retail um and some other things south of that. in the south part of the city. Also again along El Camino prim primarily and some of it between El Camino and Highway 101 is the other portions of our innovation district. A big change here is a portion that's on the map today is

retail and that is where um we have um guest house grill is in there and what are the other things? There's a gym in there and there's a few other things in there that um in a shopping center that is not basically at a commercial node. And that shopping center has had historically a very difficult time attracting tenants and it's very deep property. There's also probably a road in there that could be abandoned. The idea is could that shift to something like this? Should it shift to something like this? This has been the direction so far from the community. This has been the direction from the council because it's not at a commercial node. It could have a broader type of land use. Still can have it still can be serving as a retail, but you could also have more of that commercial innovation type land use in it. So that's the one big shift on this map for that particular center and that's on the south very south end of town. So what you see a lot of that today is commercial. When we say commercial, there's on the northern part by Kerbaril, that's where your service centers are. There's tire shops and there's auto repair um and that service related use. And there's some retail uses in there. There's even some residential. We've got some old houses on El Camino in that existing layout. And here's a little bit of what it looks like. Here's you got the Habit Burger there and Carbon Health and uh auto repair. auto parts, couple of houses left over in there and things, couple of vacant storefronts. And these are the things that we've had in the task for many years. And what we're trying to do with this general plan and with this zoning is figure out how can we incentivize these businesses to become more

successful at these locations and allow a greater mix of uses that is not just you know this seven mile strip of just retail. It really needs to be different commercial land uses and mixed use. Um you can't just have that much retail. Your retail really needs to be concentrated where it's going to be successful downtown and at several of your commercial nodes. And that's really if I look back at the spirit of this update, that's where it tries to go. Things like this are a perfect fit where we have co-working and light industrial. So some of the key development standards um this that lot size looks large two acres, but we want to have a project. We want to have something substantial. You can go less than that if you had a um sort of a whole plan for your area, a master plan of development. Height about 35 ft. Um we want to have street trees in that district. So that's really going to set your front setback. And there's a few standards here about fences. The idea is aesthetics from the street. Trying to be attractive. We're trying to increase the quality of what these areas look like. One key thing to note here, Florida ceiling height. When you step into a building, what makes buildings successful today is a good ceiling height. This is effective in mixed use. This is effective in light industrial. This is effective in retail. All throughout the example, I think I told you guys this with the mixeduse discussion. La Plaza across the street, it has 16 foot ceiling heights. We need that in today's world. So that's the minimum in this district. and also storefronts that are wide enough to accommodate rollup doors that makes these spaces more leasable, more successful. Um, and then making sure we have

sufficient glazing. When I say glazing, we can see into spaces, we have approachable building fronts, we have attractive building fronts, transparency, a good public street frontage. See, there's some visions of of what we expect these areas to look like. Would we expect it to look like this or like that? Let's go back. Thumbs up or thumbs down? Which one do you like better? All right. It wasn't supposed to be a survey, but this is the idea. Just trying to get you to think. You can see the rollup door. You can see the glazing. You can see the imagery here. So that's the vision of that district. All right. So what we can do, pause here. Um if you'd like, chair, you can also take public feedback at this particular juncture. Um we can talk get get your feedback. Again, it's no action we're asking for tonight. uh just trying to bring you a piece of this zoning at a time, answer your questions, get your feedback and um slowly get through this so that when we come back to you, which will be in August, September um with the complete package, you'll have the general plan, EIR, and all these zoning things. You'll by then you'll be fully aware of all the bits and pieces of this whole project

and committed to memory, right? Uh no, I like this very uh I like simplification. Very is very good. Would anybody like to ask any questions at this time? I have a few questions. So, the first floor is 16 foot ceiling height, correct? Okay. And it's a 35 foot height limit.

Yes. Now, there is some additional wiggle room in that 35 foot height limit. We have a 10- foot waiver for nonoccupied spaces, architectural features, roofs, things like that. So the actual building height as it may appear in the street may actually be taller. We're talking when we say 35 ft that's your habitable space. Okay. So are you picturing uh one story, two story, three stories in this? Three. Three stories

up to three up to three. Okay. Thank you. And um I have a question about a few of the smaller residential lots that exist in here. It looks like it's at a 2acre minimum uh lot area. What would we do if with some of those residential properties that maybe are less than two acres or are they all over?

When we talk about lot size, we talk about creating new lots. So that's the standard for creation of new property. That's not the standard for existing property. It has no impact on how those properties can continue to operate moving forward. Um, it just says they can't subdivide any smaller and it'd have to be at least four acres to be able to subdivide down to two acres unless they had a master planed development. Someone could still come in and say, "Hey, I'm going to create six tenant spaces on my um oneacre property and I want them to all be condoed out and here's the development plan. Here's the architecture." Then we can do that. that approved development plan. We just didn't want to allow for the subdivision of vacant land so that it becomes unusable little strips of land. The idea is to keep them large until they have a development plan and then be able to go down smaller once there's that plan. So really what that refers to is a subdivision of vacant land or subdivision of land without a development plan.

Understood. And so with the current design guidelines that you guys are proposing, you believe that the smaller residential lots would be successful in the in this zone. The idea is that you with zoning, you gradually want your land uses to conform to your current general plan.

So when you say successful, they can continue to be successful in there for as long as they wish. But the idea behind the new general planning, the zoning is that gradually these land uses like the residential uses in these commercial districts change out for something that contributes more to the local economy and to the community and the aesthetic. So when we have a little old house there from the 40s or 50s or 60s that's squeezed in between a tire shop and you know a new light industrial building. that doesn't work well for the commercial business and nor does it work well for the resident um because of the way things work nor does it work well on a on a busy section of al community real so the idea that is that gradually as the property values come up we see these things changing out

okay thank you any additional questions yes um you go Slide 28 on the setbacks. I had a question when I saw the firm 50 foot setback for the front and 20 foot on the side. A lot of those lots on the south end of town are kind of being shaped or curved. Staff has flexibility to accommodate if a setback only 16 ft versus 20 if it's in keeping with that design. So slide 28 into the setback. I just want to be sure that there's flexibility for property owners and staff when an existing.

Let's see if we can pull that back up and talk about that for a second because we want Yeah. So, slide 28 bottom section there. I'm going to talk about the I talked about the storage and the other items. So, so that's outdoor storage is what we're talking about. Um that's not the building setback. So if you've got a storage that's accessory to your land use, it should be behind your building, not in the front yard. That's the idea there. That's not to do with where the building can build. Is that what you're asking?

No. When I just saw that in the size of some of the existing lots, particularly on the south of town, someone wanted that access. We have the ability as a city to grant 18. You can't really tell the difference. We have the ability accomodate that kind of use if it's business.

Sure. And it the conditional use permit and a master plan development, you can probably get relief from that. And keep in mind, this is pure storage. When they talk about storage, outdoor storage might not be outdoor sales. If someone's selling lawnmowers and they're as their sales area and it's a sales lot, if those are allowed in zone, for example, that wouldn't be considered storage necessarily if it's inventory. So storage is purely storage. And so there's a lot of distinction what that is and maybe what you're thinking. Yeah. Thank you.

Anyone else? No. All right. Thank you. I believe we're moving on to the next header. Just gonna um invite you. I know the there there's not many people in the room, but invite public comment on the commercial innovation piece before we move on to the next. Okay. Yes. Thank you for catching that for me. Um, at this time I'd like to open up uh the podium for anybody who would like to make a comment on or to address the commission. No, not at this time. Okay. At this time, I'll go ahead and close that um open comment

and then we'll be moving forward to the um next portion of the non-residential use presentation. Yeah. So, the next three kind of groups um there should be receals for each. So, we're going to go them kind of one by one. And I believe the first one is industrial. I think we're going to go through the presentation first because the use tables are all combined and it's fairly short to show the use tables and then during discussion we will recuse.

There we can hear it. Just can't talk about it if you're going to get recused. Sound good? All right, let's do this. All right, bear with me a bit more. Land use definitions and allowed uses. All right, so this is the whole thing. Don't get overwhelmed by what you're going to see here in a couple charts, but it's these charts that our community and our planners refer to daily, what's allowed in each zone. It's not drastically changing. Things are modernizing, things are streamlining. Um, and a lot of our zoning, our land use list is based on when it was originally created in the 80s. It's now 2026. Um, and so things have things have changed. So, um, we've had a lot of duplicate definitions. We had a lot of strange definitions, nuances, and there's some new modern ones. Um, there's different things. Again, referring to the districts that are in the conversation tonight. commercial, commercial service, commercial innovation, industrial, and what we're going to really point out is some changes of note. Now, what you'll see here as a repeated theme, a lot of things are being reduced in review, going from a conditional use permit to an administrative use permit, going through from an administrative use permit to an allowed use. Um, and then a lot of things are highlighted here because they're changing a little bit. they're be modernized, but a lot of things are staying the same. So, anything that's that's underlined here in green is sort of a new land use because we want it to be different. So, for example, we used to have just one animal care services um definition and it required a conditional use permit in every district it was allowed in and that was because you had dogs and you had barking and you had noise potentials. But the reality is if someone's got a grooming service and

they're just keeping an animal there for a couple hours, that's okay. So, we separated that out. Um, and it's a different thing. You know, a veterinarian is pretty similar to a kennel because they stay overnight. So, that's its own thing. Um, and car wash used to be combined with auto repair services. They're different things. And now we're seeing car washes at every fuel station. We're seeing car washes and a lot of our retail centers and so they're becoming a different land use and that's generally the theme here. There's different land uses that we have that have developed over the years. Um commercial recreation and entertainment. We get a lot of requests for things like that and that's a that one's a really big one. It's a conditional use permit. I'll keep going down through this list. We've had um new things come up like electric generation and storage facility that actually is more comparable to for example what was proposed in Moral Bay a year or two ago that wasn't successful that would only be allowed in industrial and a conditional use permit scenario that is that does not pertain to on-site electricity generation such as solar that supports the land use that's on the property or batteries that support the land uses on the property. That's talking about a combined facility that supports multiple properties. And then we decided to break down our fitness facilities because they had such different um characteristics to them. Some are allowed, some require an AUP or a CUP. Um things like that. Um and then we have a new definition as well for artisan manufacturing. What's that? Well, someone who has um something like they may have a a little glass shop or they make, you know, glass figurines and they make things with it actually serve the tourism industry as well and they're interesting to look at and it's an

artisan product and it's smaller and it's not intensive and it might be something you could combine near a residential district or in a retail district. It's different. And then again, we've changed a lot of these uses to reduce the review process where appropriate. A few new ones here as well. Showroom um where you buy where you see a product and you can buy that product but you see it on site there. A studio or creative workshop. I mean that's something for example like um the pottery. Um and then tattoo shops they used to be restrict heavily restricted everywhere. That's a land use that's changed a lot. more recent years and it's become a lot more widely accepted and it's not a land use that has what we used to have in our code called a deteriorating effect on its surroundings. And so our council said let's be more flexible about where they're allowed and not require a cup. another example. And then vehicle rental, vehicle services and repair uh allowed in more locations, minor repair being a different um category. So here's where we have the the discussion broken up. Um and so here's where we can have some fabrication. So the use tables, I think we need to break out the industrial zone and that is where Commissioner Anderson. Okay. So, all of you can comment on definitions and standards and use tables. So, I can back up. Oh, just in this just in the CI zone. Oh, boy. This gets really confusing. I'm I'm relying on Kelly to guide me through because there was some slides in here that

allowed us to bifrocate this and I took them out. Didn't know what they were. Wait. Yeah, we're now taking questions on the land use def. Oh, do we have those in here? Oh, they're attached to your report. So, I'm not looking at these in the table, but the land use definitions that are attached to your report and any land uses in the CI or commercial innovation district. You can throw questions at us on those. Um,

can I ask a question? Oh, Commissioner, can you go right ahead? Sorry, I wasn't making good eye contact. Um, I don't see stuff like cannabis retail or vape stores. Is that like a separate zone thing?

So, we had an elaborate discussion on cannabis recently at the city council level and they separated it out as a land use. We have an entire section in our zoning dedicated to cannabis land uses and the city council decided not to put cannabis in a retail category, but instead to allow for non-stofront uh delivery and to allow for testing labs. And so those are the only two land uses that are allowed. It's not part of this particular um use list. I think it's still in your definitions, but it's a separate it's a whole separate section in Title 9 um that refers to cannabis. And

and we just want to clarify that these use tables on your screen are not complete. These are the changes of note and the complete use tables are in your I think there was a handout with the So that would be good to reference because there are uses that are not listed on the screen. Yeah, under C definitions there's no cannabis. So that's why I was curious whether that has its own chapter in our zoning ordinance rather than being okay.

Just a comment, Mr. Chair, I want to thank staff for the report. I appreciate pointing out the the side by side for things like tasting room, but attitudinally I do think this is the right direction for the city and and looking at the cross-section of the it's not lowering a threshold. We still have control and oversight, but I think the ease for the applicant, this is the right direction. So, I appreciate the work. I just want to make a quick comment that uh I did notice the change some of the changes from the handout we got before to the addended amended one was uh basically a square footage space on certain certain property uses. So, uh, was there a specific reason that those property sizes were funneled out just so you could ease of um, permitting?

You speaking about where definitions have more than 10,000 square feet or less than 10,000 square feet. So, we actually made that change quite a few years ago. We used to have a portion of our zoning ordinance that required a use permit for any um outdoor activity over 10,000 square feet, but it was not listed in our use table. It was a little footnote. Um, and the council wanted to make that more clear. So, quite a few years ago, we brought a zoning code update that actually separated them in the land use table so that it was more clear um which ones required use permits and which ones were allowed. Okay. So, it's kind of the secret menu at In and Out. Something like that. You have to ask for it. Okay. All right.

Wanted it to be a secret. We wanted it to be very clear. It was It's now It's now clear. And I just wondered why that change and you stated it. Thank you. I think we can go ahead and move on to um unless should we do public comment on this portion as well or

yeah we'll take public comment on definitions and uses in the CI zone. Um, so essentially I think what we're going to do now is um we'll take since you've gotten kind of the general presentation, we'll take the public comment on the items that you've asked questions on and we're able to discuss collectively as a group. Um we'll then move forward piece by piece um for the items for which there may be conflicts. People will uh recuse as necessary. Um there'll be questions, public comment and discussion on each of those pieces individually. they'll do it individually. So, right now, I'll just call for um a uh if anybody would like to make a comment in the in the in the public or online commercial innovation zone portion of this presentation, uh please step up or is there anybody online right now? No,

we do not take uh online public comment at this point. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Thank you. Anybody would like to make a comment on this portion, please step up. No. Seeing none, we'll go ahead and uh close that and continue on. And at this point, I believe this is time for me to recuse myself for um a conflict simply because I have property that is within uh conflict zone of this area that we'll be discussing. So, I'll go ahead and remove myself and

which is the industrial zone. in the industrial zone. Yes, this section will and I'll go ahead and hand the hand the gavl over to Eric and uh I'll be back shortly. Thank you. And now we'll move on to part two where we'll discuss the industrial zone.

Yes. Thank you, vice chair. And so I could bring a presentation back up, but essentially this is about the land use definitions and that are attached to your report, right? And and a use table, the far right column. district. Anybody have any questions? If there's no questions, you could open for public comment on the industrial uh zone use table. would now like to open for public comment on the industrial use. Doesn't look like anybody wants to come up in the podium. So, we'll close public comment

and then it would be up to any discussion that the commission has on the item.

Just for the energy generation storage, can can you bring up the map again that show the area? because I know there's new state law on emergency planning requirements and offsets. So, I didn't know if this took into account that that statute in 2026 for energy storage facilities particular. So, I don't know if we've done that overlay or not. So, I just advise that we take a look up on that before adoption. We can do that. Our consultants working on our zoning code update is incorporating a best ordinance into the zoning code and so we'll make sure that all of the state laws Thank you.

And if there are no other discussion items, I think we can move on to part three. That's correct. Um we can have chairperson Anderson re-enter room and um part three I'll defer to staff on which one that is and Commissioner Frell and Commissioner Bacio. Yes. and go to the back room. I'll be recusing myself for both the commercial zone and the commercial service zone as I own property. Thank you. I shall do the same.

I just want to clarify that Commissioner Frell's conflict is just with the commercial zone as opposed to both. If you would like to clarify that for the record. Yes, I would like to clarify for the record that my conflict is with the commercial zone. Thank you. Uh, welcome back. Thank you. Wow, we're all conflicted here, I guess, but it's minor stuff. It's just to air on the side of best judgment. So, thank you very much. Can we continue?

Yes. Yes. Any comments on the commercial zone and the just the commercial zone, the one column on the far left there or land use definitions? Do we have any uh anyone in the audience who would like to comment on that? No. Okay, we'll go ahead and close that and we'll move on. I have a question. Oh, I'm sorry. That's okay. I think you'd see her better with at me. I probably have a question. Um So, I just want to clarify a vehicle service station is a gas station even if it does not provide any kind of service other than gas. That name still sticks.

Yes, we have to some That's true to some of you who called it that when you were young. I think we did. I thought we changed it and update a little bit cuz we have a fuel station for propane and I kind of feel like that's a better definition. Fuel sales. Well, that refers to fuel like fuel stored fuel like I just feel like I I mean my grandparents call it a service station but none of us do. I mean millennials is what I mean. Where is that land use definition? Kelly uh V.

It's in your attachments, but it is something different. These are sort of this isn't all of the land uses. This is the changes. Note I know comment on a definition and name of a call a gas station. That that'd be great. Um my other question that I just realized thinking about gas stations because I don't use those anymore. electrical fueling electrical charging stations. We have it. What do we Are those in here? So, it's called I think we call it a vehicle service station. You call it a vehicle service station. Oh, there it is. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that is an old name and I think it should be called a gas station.

What about a lot of these gas stations also now have electric vehicle charging and they have slush puppies and that that is not a vehicle service. Slush puppies. That's a personal service. Okay. Um but so electricity generation and storage facility is not an electrical charging station. What is that? Are we grouping that in with a vehicle service station? Okay. So we can we can take your comments. That's fine. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just I'm just kind of like working through this now because like let's say I have

um a widget sales shop. Okay. And I want to put in electrical chargers in my commercial innovative thing for my employees, but that's not allowed in that um zone. So

So use table covers are primary uses and so there are always an amount of accessory uses that go along with certain types of activities. And this was clarified because they had a concern about uh child care facilities for uh businesses specifically for businesses not as a primary use but as accessory to an office building or something of that nature. So our use table deals with primary uses. your primary use is retail or innovating in some way. Um, building code requires, but those types of charging for employees or people on site going to a primary use would be considered accessory and they don't need to be listed as an allowed use as a primary use.

Okay. And if and if it's not just for employees, but anybody can use it, then if it's associated with an approved primary use, then that is allowed. Correct. And when we when we're specifically talking about vehicle charging, that's required by building code for literally every new building.

Oh, okay. Okay. I didn't know that. So, thank you. No, no f other questions. All right. Okay. Um and the definition for vehicle service station to go back a little bit is is right in your attachment. It seems I'm I'm old school. I remember putting oil in airing up tires and stuff. Those are services do there. Okay. Um, you want to continue?

Next section that we'll talk about is commercial service. And um, Frell, Commissioner Frell can come back in if you can hear me. But we have to leave out um, Commissioner Pacio still. And our clerk is going to capture Welcome back, Commissioner Barrell. Thanks for having me. Now, we're going to be talking about the land use of the commercial service district, column number two up there. And in your definitions, um, and again, these aren't all of those definitions, but it's some of the more notable notable changes. um commercial service. That's where you have your uh auto repair and your um your things that you do stuff with. So, you know, services, right? Went the wrong way. Comments, questions, discussion. So, we're making retail in those areas more restrictive.

Yeah. Are you talking about commercial uh uh like automotive repair? Because obviously if that's in that section I used for industrial which is where my business is located. So, I don't think this would affect anything that I do. I don't think. And if uh I'll just uh not comment. How's that? We're right now we're looking at um the use tables for the uh commercial services district. Yeah. Um for which uh we have not identified a conflict. Okay, there we go. Thank you.

Back to Commissioner Jones, I think. Were you having a question about retail? Um so in general, our changes to our use tables are not making anything more restrictive. Um we are simp clarifying uses, breaking them out, um, and ensuring that the uses that are envisioned in that zone, um, are included in the use table and I think he's referencing the retail restricted and that retail restricted category has been dramatically reduced. The tattoo shops were in that and they've come out of that. Um, so reality has become more streamlined, isn't that?

So I I think um that particular use is going from allowed to an AU. Correct. Um and so our retail restricted are things like um check cashing and cigarette shops um and those types of things. So um those do warrant some level of discretionary review, but it's been changed to a director level of review. Thank you. I think we're getting it. All right. Uh, do we have any additional questions on the commercial services? No.

And then if there's anything from the public too, we can go out to if there's another unless there's another question. I'm just curious. Are there are there any currently check cashing places? I've never seen one in my seven or eight years living there. I don't believe there are any existing in the proposed commercial service. There's some banking service areas,

but that's a little different. Yeah. Okay. Well, if we if there are no further commissioner questions, um I'll ask if there are any questions from the audience. No, no questions. Go ahead and close that. And uh I guess we can ask to bring us rejoin us. He's hasn't fallen asleep back there. This is probably the most fun I've had in a in a meeting in a long time. I don't I don't feel like the only one. So,

so that concludes that item and just kind of leave you with a nice glimpse of the proposed zoning map. There's the whole thing. Um, and at this time, you know, the city council's endorsed the plan map. The IR is out there. Everything is in motion. And that concludes our presentation. Thank you very much. Um, I really appreciate all the work you guys did into it to accommodate all of this. That was probably a little more last minute dancing that you wanted to do, but we want to do everything above board. Taylor, thank you for uh walking me through that. I really appreciate it.

Yeah, I appreciate everyone. And we'll be doing similar recusals in the future. So, just keep an eye out for those and we'll um we'll guide you as the zoning code and general plan come forward for final approval.

Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Let's see. So, um I don't think there's any last minute public comments until we move on to the next uh we're moving on to public hearings now. Correct. Yes. Okay. All right. For each of the uh following items in the public will be given opportunity to speak. After staff reports, the chair will be will open the public hearing to and invite the applicant or applicants representative to make any comments. Uh members of the public will be invited to provide testimony to the commission following the applicant. Speakers should state their name for the record and can address the commission for three minutes. After all public comments have been received, uh the public hearing will be closed and the commission will discuss the items and take appropriate actions. All right. Does anybody start with export?

I just want before we start with this want to address any potential conflicts amongst the commission and allow you a chance to um recuse if need be. Oh yes. Do I do I call for expert first and then um you can recuse yourself and then we'll continue with the um item. Due to my proximity to one of the um I'll do the property here in question I will be recusing myself this portion. Yeah. Thank you.

All right. We'll move on to disclosure of exportation. Received an email and replied that I had received and reviewed their email.

I had a conversation with an attorney about this property maybe like a year ago. I I don't remember a lot of it other than they were saying that they were interested in the property and um I talked to Kelly about some of the questions they had. Um but but that was it. I called them back but never spoke to them again. So Commissioner Heath has no experte. I have no history of the property. No expert. Received an email from the applicant. I was not able to meet. So other than that, no. So it sounds like Gomez will present the item. That is correct. But I want to make sure Phil gives a proper introduction to uh

Yes. I I did want to introduce our planner, Eric Gomez, who'll be giving you the details of this um item tonight. Also, just want to preface it a little bit. Um this is a fairly simple item. This is not a routine item. This is a very unusual situation, this appeal. It's not an appeal of a land use. It's an appeal of a land use determination. And so, um, I will caution you to not get into the discussion of the conditional use permit that's been previously applied for. We're not evaluating the land use. We're simply evaluating one very small, very narrow topic. And that is our non-conforming use regulations and how they pertain to this property. And I'll be available to answer questions. Gomez is going to give you the details and some of the history and our appellent is here tonight to provide their testimony history. You did hopefully most of you received the letter that was received from the appellent today uh with that discussion and uh the appellant will also have a presentation and we'll give them time to go through their presentation as well. Thank you Eric. Thank you.

Great question. Thank you. Um good evening planning commissioners. Uh as Phil said, my name is Eric Gomez. I'm here to present um project uh number APL 260020. Um and as Phil just explained, this is an appeal of a um determination made by our department um regarding uh a discontinued non-conforming use at 4990 trafficway. So my in my first two slides here, I'm just going to give you some of the context of the of the property we're looking at and also the code section that we are looking at. Um so this uh property on your screen right now highlighted in that kind of neon blue um is a 1.42 acre industrial zone property. It right now has an about 3,200 square foot industrial building and about 45,000 square feet of um paved yard area. Um that paveyard area is kind of um a major component of what the discussion is about today. Um the property is part of that uh narrow industrial strip along traffic way um and the you know along the railroad. Um the property most recently the building there housed Barber's Towing for those of you um who needed a little bit more context about the location. Um it also and again part what we'll be talking about today uh the property also hosts housed or hosted um a tacidero RV storage for a while. Um so just a general overview of non-conforming use and and non-conforming uses and what they are. Um, generally speaking, um, what you see the most, uh, of when you're talking about a non-conforming use, um, especially in the city are buildings

that maybe were constructed before any permit requirements were in effect. So, really easy example of that is uh, like a colony house that might be on a commercial lot, right? And it's just that this lot is zoned commercial. Um, but the colony house was built in the 1918s. There was no zoning rules at that time. Um, and so, uh, that's one type of non-conforming use. Um, another type of non-conforming use are uses that, uh, are established, um, before when there was zoning regulations, but those zoning regulations were different than what is established now. Um, so a good example of that might be like a church on a residential or commercial property that's been established, I don't know, since the 1960s7s, um, would now require a cup, but maybe they didn't require a cup back in the day. So, they just went ahead and started using the property in that way. They built their building. No special permits were required. If that church or a similar situation wanted to occur today, you would need a cup. Um, so that's the what we call non-conforming due to lack of entitlement. Um, and so that's uh some of the situation that we're dealing here today. Um, we have a whole chapter in our code related to non-conforming uses. Um, but particularly uh what we're looking at today is what happens when um a non-conforming use stops using a property um and how do they become reestablished? Well, our code says um that if you have a non-conforming land use and you discontinue that for a period of six months or more more um the use then it has to comply with all the standards of our code um to be reestablished and that includes any permitting requirements. Right? So, if you didn't need a use permit before um because you were a non-conforming use uh but you stopped for a period of six months or more and you want to

reestablish, then you have to come in and go through the use permit process. So, a quick background on that property that we looked at. Um so, in 2012, the city approved a building permit uh for a Tacadero RV storage to occupy that site. Um, at that time it was an allowed use. Outdoor storage is was an allowed use back in 2012. Fast forward, uh, eight years later, 2020, uh, the city went through and updated our code to essentially require a conditional use permit for all outdoor uses. Um, and so as that happened, um, the Atasadero RV storage essentially became a non-conforming use due to lack of entitlement. Um, in June 2022, we got communication that summer. Generally, we got communication um, sorry, in June 2022, we got communication from the owner and from the uh, owner of Atacadero RV storage um, that they were vacating that property. The business would no longer be occupying the site. Um, and our team uh, the plan department, we informed the owner that the use needs to be established reestablished within six months. So essentially by December of 2022 or the end of that year um to be allowed without a use permit. Um we did receive an email back from the owner confirming that they understood that in July or from July 2022 to March 2024. Uh as far as our record shows, there was no new outdoor storage uses established on the property. Um, and then after some interest from the property owner uh to get a use back on the property and a tenant back on the property, they applied for a CP for outdoor storage again. Um, it wasn't until uh, you know, March 2026 uh, when conversations started happening around essentially how we got to that point in

the process uh, through the cup. Um after we had a uh DRC meeting um after we had uh essentially started looking at how to move the project uh forward through hearings um that the fire property owner uh and their applicant um started looking into this non-conforming use section and began wondering why it wasn't applied or how it wasn't applied and decided to appeal uh our determination. Our determination being uh here on the screen that the previous um non-conforming outdoor vehicle and equipment storage use ceased for a period of more than six months and is now uh discontinued and if you wanted to continue an outdoor uh vehicle and equipment storage use, you need to get a new cup. Um the applicant is appealing um uh on the stance that the property should be allowed to operate under the outdoor vehicle and equipment storage uh uh or as a vehicle and equipment storage use um as a non-conforming use without a cup. um still not sufficient uh evidence or information is provided to us that there was a use on that site in any uh given period um after December 22 which is when there's six months ended after RV that taser RV storage left. Um so our recommendation here is is pretty straightforward. Um the we're asking the planning commission adopt draft resolution A denying the appeal and upholding staff's determination that the right to continue the previous non-conforming outdoor vehicle and equipment storage use at 4990 trafficway um has expired for the t for task municipal municipal code chapter 97. Um you do have a few alternatives. Uh staff did prepare a separate resolution for you all. Um that's resolution B. And so you may grant the appeal and overturn staff's

determination. Um and your third uh option there is um you may determine that more information is needed um on some aspect of the appeal. Um refer that item back to us and ask us to come back with the information that is pending for you to make a a motion. And with that I will open that to uh questions and discussion. I believe also the uh the applicant has a presentation for you all. And does Taylor want to address some of the emails and attachments that we received?

Sure. Yeah. So maybe before you ask questions of staff, I'll just jump in and um respond to a few things. I know you all are aware that you received a letter this afternoon from the applicants council. Um I'm not going to kind of endeavor to respond to each point. I know it was a fairly lengthy letter, but there's just a few high points I wanted to touch on to hopefully um clarify some things and provide some context context for uh your appeal this this evening. Um the first of which pertains to inter their interpretation of the municipal code. um their council interprets the municipal code such that non-conforing uses that are non-conforming based on the lack of entitlement alone so a cup um can't be ceased for discontinuence because there's no such discontinuence provision in uh 9-7105 and that 9-7106B is inapplicable. Um the city attorney's office contests that interpretation. Um it's our understanding of the municipal code uh that the lack of the discontinuence provision in 105 is not a deterrence to that actually applying to such cases. In addition, this uh situation does qualify under 9-7106. Um which applies to uh uses of land in a location where the use is not allowable. Um currently the city's code distinguishes between allow we just looking at those um use tables allowed uses and a use. um is separate and distinct from a cup, a conditionally permitted use. Um this use in the location where it is is not an A or allowed use. It is a conditionally permitted use. So um 9-7.106 is applicable to the situation. Um and then I just want to kind of address a few uh other legal points. There were some cases referenced um by appellence council. um namely McCastlin versus City of Monterey uh cited for the idea that a vesting legal non-conforming use cannot

be terminated without notice in an opportunity to be heard. My reading of that case is a bit narrower. Um the holding uh the holding I think is um a little bit more conricted than that. Uh there the court held an ordinance that requires discontinuence forth with of a use from this point of the uh effective effective date of the ordinance. so forth with meaning immediately requires uh notice and an opportunity to be heard essentially due process um before that termination can be made. Um that is not the case here. Um the city's code does not require mandatory and immediate cessation of the nonconforming uses in that way. Um essentially the non-conforming use can continue more or less in perpetuity of in perpetuity if they abide by the provisions of uh the city's code. And that would I'm namely referring to not expanding the use or um continuing the use as opposed to discontinuing it. Um for a similar reason I'm would just want to clarify the use of Bower versus City of San Diego. Um that situation also involved an immediate cessation or termination determination of the non-conforming use. Um and I just want to draw a distinction between uh the city's code which is discontinuence over a period of time as opposed to immediate and in that case it was actually a um alcohol sales beverage use um that lost their ABC license um and prompting the agency the local agency to kind of immediately uh dis immediately terminate the legal non-conforming use. um that immediacy is not the same situation as we have here. Um and then just a few kind of general points. I just kind of want to re reiterate what Eric said about uh and Phil said about um today's appeal. It

pertains to staff's determination that the legal non-conforming status has expired pursuant to the city's code. um discussions of or issues relating to the conditional use permit. Uh any conditions of the conditional use permit um anything like that is not the subject of of this appeal. We're focused on just that whether or not uh that legal non-conforming status determination is something that you agree with based on a preponderance of the evidence. Um and such an inquiry is a fact-specific one. it is um even if it's considered on a higher courtbased level as well. Um so I just encourage you to keep that in mind when you're asking questions as well just to uh keep us on track and focus on the appeal at hand. And if you have any other questions I'd be happy to uh answer them as they might come up. I have a question regarding the six months uh that seems to be critical to the discussion that we're having here. My question is um where does that stand within our vote and or determination? Could we accept that the vacancy was over six months and still uphold the appeal or is it cut and dry if it was over six months it gets denied?

Sure. So abandonment of a legal non-conforming use um as stated by the palance council it does require uh intent as well as actual abandonment. Um intent can be shown a number of different ways and sessation of use is a factor that can fall into intent. So that goes into kind of a factual determination of of uh what's been placed before you and what you're you will hear from both staff and from the appellent. Great. Thank you. Any questions? I have ladies first.

Can Can you put the um timeline back up there? Yeah, that one. Okay. So, um, is there a new property owner? Like, was that property sold at some point?

Yes. And I don't know if we have that exact date when it was sold. It was somewhere somewhere. Well, yeah, we'll wait to hear from the appellant on the exact date,

but um there was a new property owner involved. The existing pre-existing land use um that was the Tascadero RV storage was in place when the current property owner purchased the property. While that current owner had that property, that tenant vacated the site, which was approximately June 2022. And that's when a conversation began between myself and the new property owner about options for either reestablishing that use or developing the property with commercial buildings, which was the discussion at that time.

So, the person who owned The property in 2012 also owned Tascadero RV storage. No. So the person that owned a Tascad RV storage was leasing the property from 2012 on. Okay. From a different property owner. Okay. So the property changed hands but a task RV storage stayed on the property even after for a short time after. Correct. So the property was sold but the business stayed on. the business. The business vacated in 2022, correct?

And then the owner was gonna do something else with it. They came to me to investigate developing the property with buildings. I toured the site with them at that time. We talked about a draft site plan. They decided not to do it. So, as staff, we advise them on the existing non-conforming use, non-conforming by entitlement, and said, "Hey, you need to reestablish this land use because they're paving.

You don't do that. You're going to need to get a cup." They didn't. Here we are this many years later. So, that discussion was very clear at that time. They decided not to reestablish it. I will say a different land use did establish itself on the property, but not on that portion of the property. a different land use and auto mechanic did establish themselves within the building. Okay. But not on the larger site. The larger site stayed just vacant.

Yeah. So the the area that was previously used by RV storage has consistently remained vacant since June of 2022. Can I ask questions about the emails that we got or should we wait till after the presentation by the appellent? Right now you can ask questions of staff related to the staff report. So if there's anything like that and then um we will have an opportunity for presentation and uh you can ask some discreet questions if you have additional clarifications of them.

I have questions about attachment exhibit D. Sorry, it's very long. Okay, so at the very bottom of exhibit D, it's page 74. Um, it's an email from Francois Dejon. Um, I guess I'm just trying to figure out who the people are and how they relate to the property because there's a portion highlighted that says, "Travis, please know that our current CUP expires 6 months after Durk vacated on 6:30. So, if we plan to do our own boat and RV business, we would need to start before the end of this year." Who? Obviously, that email was to you, Phil. So, was that the owner of the property? Was that the owner of a Tascadero RV in

That's the owner of the property. The owner of the property's here tonight. Okay. Okay. And then um and then later on you mentioned that requiring use permits for storage yards. On his construction permit, he was required to install screen fencing and land landscaping. most of which did not get completed in accordance with plans or was changed at a later date. That was the permit for the business or was that the permit for the property

business? So, tasker RV storage did not do some of the things they had promised to do when they established their business years earlier or some of those things went away over time. Not sure. Okay. Was before many of our employment here at the city. So say I established early on and I began my employment with the city here in 2015 and they were already established. So Okay. So you were just stating like we would need those things done that were never done back then. Yes. It was a discussion about what should have been done for a storage yard and what would tenatively be required if we were to move forward with a new project on the property. Okay. And those are I mean those are clearly dated 2022. So

excuse me. just they were dated 2022, September 2nd, 2022. Commissioner Jones, um I don't consider a discussion notice. What's the standard for the city's notice of an expiring use? And where is that formal notice that was served to the landowner? I don't see that in the package.

We do not have a formal notice process. That's not part of our non-conforming use zoning. So that is not part of our code. It's not a requirement. We have non-conforming uses over the entire community, hundreds of them. We do not give any of them notice and nor are we required to and nor will we. I'll walk back that last

well just to provide some back some context to that last statement. um non-conforming uses from a policy standpoint, the goal, the priority is for them not for them ultimately not to exist. So these kinds of non-conforming use laws are generally interpreted quite strictly. So that's just kind of the landscape of non-conforming uses legally generally is not is that cities are not motivated to uh continue them because they do not conform to the code. Of course, there are allowances and abilities for them to continue, but in terms of interpreting those, um, they're done rather strictly from a policy point of view.

So, what I'm not seeing in the record is a clear date of when the six months started. And so, that's that's what I'm trying to get my hands around because I don't see notice and I've been the recipient of an erroneous violation notice from the city before and it was done quite poorly. So, what I want to be sure is where is our administrative record to show the action that you're asking us to take tonight. So what you're asking is staff to basically determine when each land use leaves a property. We have no feasible way to do that with the hundreds and hundreds of businesses in this city. We what we do know is who has a current business license and we send letters to every business license owner in our community and we send every business um reminders to renew those business licenses and it's a constant effort. However, um we do not have a mechanism or a code provision that requires us to notify non-conforming businesses when they leave and what their time limits are because we don't know when they leave. They may leave mid year through a business cycle and be gone for six months before we know.

I'm just trying to get around and I'm going to ask the simple question until I'm satisfied. Where is our six months in this case? I can't find it in the record before me today. Where? Sure. Sure, I understand your question about what six months you're speaking about. The six months that would exhaust their non-conforming use, they're right.

So, the email conversation is one piece of that evidence. Our visual observation of the property over the last two years when we drive by it nearly daily as we do site visits is the other part of the observation. The business owner did not renew their business license from Atascadoo RV sales in 2022 and they left the property and vacated the site and staff had a conversation with the property owner on multiple occasions about what to do with the property in the future. So in this case it's been clearly communicated and it's been clearly marked as to when the land use vacated.

So we have a timeline before. So I'm just when that six months started and ended. And I I still don't have an answer to that. Six months started in June of 2022 on this particular property. It is now May of 2026, a little bit over six months,

right? But the court and this commission should abore for so I just want a clear crisp timeline before we make a decision tonight that upholds or rejects the appeal. So on page 77 that it says that there's an email from Dirk Dole saying that the last day for RV storage was 5122 on page 77.

Sounds like we gave a month of extra credit. Is that sufficient? I have a question for council on the nature of the redactions. I'm used to seeing it when it's that's the gate code. We don't want to give out the gate. Yeah, I was going to say I was used to seeing it for a phone number and it's just really long. Used to seeing it for a phone number or a last name of a party that's not involved or something like this. I see seven or eight lines. I just wanted to understand the nature of the reductions. So after uh Atasca RV was gone, there was a use with the gas company. Was was that done through the city or was that

So in many locations throughout the city, we do allow for utility companies to temporarily set up staging areas when they're doing projects on the streets of the city for public utilities. And that's frequent on multiple vacant properties throughout the city in multiple districts. And it's not a primary land use. That's a temporary and intermittent use that they come in and get a license for to set up staging for construction. I have a couple questions. Um, what mechanisms did the city use to verify a sixmon vacancy on the property? Just to reiterate that,

I'll reiterate that again. So, we site visits during the time uh and communication from the property owner and from staff along with those visual observations along with a sessation of the business license of the Atascadero RV storage and no new business license of a similar land use since that time since it expired. And um what items would the applicant need to provide to verify continued use of the site as a vehicle storage block?

So they would need an approved land use which would come through a business license and they would need a site plan and they we would need to verify that they put in place the land use along with the improvements and an ownership of the business. None of those things have occurred since the Tascado RV storage has left four years about four years. And I think the city has been extremely gracious in providing opportunities to develop or utilize this property. And in fact, we did, and I'm not going to elaborate, invite them to enter a conditional use permit process, which they have not completed. Thank you, Phil. Any other questions or comments?

Just clarification in the lapse of the the business license expired on which day? 22 or 23?

22. Now, if they're not any other not comments. We now like to invite the applicant to speak on their thanks for your patience. Can you all hear me? Oh, wow. Yes. Impressive, AV. Okay. And you have my PowerPoint. And can you all see or do you have to swivel? Oh, okay. Great. Let me just let me just get organized here. You have a timer or how does that work?

We're going to count. We don't have a timer displayed, but we are watching time

just because time flies sometimes when you're having fun. So, uh, right. I'm gonna set a timer as well. Um, okay. Thank you, chair. Uh, or vice chair. Um, we're good. Yes. Okay. Hello everyone. I'm Beth Collins. I'm a land use attorney. Um, here representing um the applicant. It's not actually the applicant, it's the appellant. Um, it is a strange situation. I'm usually here on behalf of an applicant. Uh it's quite unusual for me to appear in front of a planning commission in this jurisdictional uh setting. Um so I'm here with my land use planner colleague Ginger Anderson and uh the property representative Francois Dejon. Um we're really it's an unfortunate circumstance actually. Um we took a lot of time and effort before appearing here. um worked really really hard with staff to try to get a cup that could work on this property. I did include a little bit of detail in that in the letter that I submitted to you to try to give you background and context on why the time has passed um because there has been time while we've been trying to work through the cup process. Um so I'm going to give a little bit of details because there are some missing facts here. Um, so I'll give you more info. Uh, so why are we here? As you heard from staff, Eric did a great job. Uh, it is a all about a vested legal non-conforming use um being taken and this is a constitutional takings issue um without due process. um the agency cannot unilaterally terminate a use without notice and a hearing and without demonstrating that the applicant

actually intended to emban abandoned its vested property right. So here the property has been used in a variety of storage uses since back in '94. The RV storage permit was given in 2012. Our clients purchased the property in 2020 and continued the RV use. First, there was the Atascadera RV storage use. Then, our clients are actually in the RV storage business and they continued renting the site until March 2023. If they didn't get a business license, that's not a basis to take a property right. It just is not. Um after that SoCal Gas leased the site, they parked their trucks, they stored their outdoor equipment, that is outdoor vehicle and equipment storage. That continued until 2023 after SoCal Gas stopped. Our clients were told, "You need to get a cup." They accommodated. They went ahead and applied for a cup thinking that that process well they they didn't want to fight and they decided to go along with staff. But what they let what that led to was two years of trying to work to get a cup on a property that they bought for $950,000 and they were demanded to have over $700,000 of improvements because it's a weird long skinny strip. So over $700,000 of improvements. And then we received an email saying even if you agreed to those permit those improvements that use is not favored and we're working on our general plan it doesn't match. So no even though it's an allowed use. So at that point my clients were in a box and so then we asked the city to affirm that we had a legal

non-conforming permitted use that was permitted back in 2012 and we were told no. And that is why we're here for you with you today. So there are some missing facts here. We were continuing leasing the site. The case law that was mentioned Bower goes this a liquor um case. I can go into more detail with you. Um the court is very clear and actually says Bower can't be blamed. She had a liquor store. The city said, "You need a cup because your use has ceased." She went ahead, it went through the cup process. Then the city denied the cup. She ended up in court. And the court said, "You had a legal non-conforming use. You didn't have to get a CUP." And in a footnote says, "Bower, we can't fault Bower for proceeding with the cup process." She was trying to work with the city. She probably should have sued them earlier, but she was accommodating them and that can't be used against her. And that's exactly what the city is attempting to do now. While we were working on a cup with a a pending application seeking exactly the same use we had legally vested, they're saying we abandoned the use, which we did not. So, let me go on here. Here's the vested permit. It's 2012. You can see planning signed off on it. There's the RV use. Those are the stripes there on the site plan. That is the area we're talking about. That is still there. Those stripes are still there. The fence improvements are still there. We didn't change it to some other use. We did not abandon our existing site improvements. We are did not abandon our interest in getting outdoor storage on this site. We do have a new general plan, but that's not relevant.

just because you have or you're considering a general plan update, it's still an allowed use with a cup. Plus, that's irrelevant because a new general plan is not justification to take a vested use. So, I'm trying to speed through this unpacking this code um section. I'd like to do it with you because you guys are an incredibly sophisticated planning commission actually. So, I think I can attempt this with you. Um, respectfully, I disagree with your city attorney. You saw Eric put up that this code section 7.106 non-conforming uses of land. That is the place where it says the six months. That's what they're trying to use. But note the first line. The first line says any non-conforming use of land. And then sites set 9-7.102B. We are not B. We are A of that section. So that section the six months does not apply to this use. And I can explain to you more why. A is a building structure land use. It's kind of poetic that you were just going through what a land use is and those land use tables. A land use that was established which does not conform or meet the permit requirements. staff just admitted we don't meet the permit requirements. They want us to get a cup. Whereas if you look at your land use definitions again, we are vehicle and equipment outdoor storage staff has admitted that. So we are a so the six months doesn't even apply to us. B let's unpack B. That is a use of land established in a location where such use

is not identified as allowable. Respectfully, you just heard your city attorney say that means the A in your table. That's actually not true. Look at your definitions of use, allowable, which means allowable use. It says a use of land identified in chapter 9.3 as being appropriate in a given zoning district subject to the standards of this title. That means a use that's allowed through an A or a CUP or any other permit. That's further reinforced by you can see in section 9.3 a non-residential land use permit. Vehicle and equipment outsource storage that's our use is allowed with the cup. The purpose of that section explains it says the whole article there have descriptions of the types of land uses which can be established. That means there's a permitting path. It's not forbidden. The uses described here are allowed in various zoning districts. The descriptions and land uses are intended only as a list and not don't explain the permit requirements. So here's the use table. Trying to keep a mind on my time. Here are the use tables. Use tables, CUP, A, those are all allowable uses. Okay, they are not identified, right? They're not unallowable uses. That's what's in B. Those are the types of things that can be terminated with six months. Those things with dashes there, which for or they're empty spaces, things like in an industrial zone, an adult care facility. So, there were some questions about due process. You need notice. You need an opportunity to be heard. You need an evidentiary hearing. That's well established in the case law. The city has not presented and can't present evidence of six months of in

discontinuous use. If you look at those aerials, there are not aerials that show every six months. They're not they can't prove that there haven't been uses for six months. Plus, on top of that, the case law actually requires not mere cessation of use, but you must actually be abandoning. And you even heard your city attorney, assistant city attorney saying that you have to have an intent, which we never had an intent to abandon here. We repeatedly said our intent to maintain it. So, here again, because I'm trying to track my time, um, here are the aerials.

Just on time, you only have a couple seconds left. Thank you. I'll wrap up. So I would warn warn this commission this is something this is a really material item this is a constitutional issue I ask you to please note that the site improvements remain our willingness we kept trying to get a cup we pursued the use there is no way that this either the code or the case law supports reports the actions that the city has taken. So, please write the ship and grant our appeal. Thank you.

Thank you for that. And I'm also here if you have any questions. Sorry. Thank you for that presentation. Um are we going to go into members of the public or are we going to ask questions? Um you can ask some discreet questions of the applicant and then we'll go into public comment. Does anybody have any questions? What is a discreet question? Sorry, just questions of the questions that pertain to the case that they might be able to answer. Yeah. Thank you. And then would uh before we ask any questions, Taylor, would you like to address any of the items specifically? Um slide two, there were a couple items. One of them was

I can't remember on the top of my head what slide two is, if we wouldn't mind returning. the intent to abandon.

Yeah, of course. So, that's something I did mention when I was speaking earlier. Um, so for abandonment of illegal non-conforming use, there you show an intent to abandon as well as that actual kind of sessation abandonment of the use. Um, again, intent is um a factual inquiry. It can a factor of which includes cessation of use. So, that can be a factor that shows um intent to abandon. Um there's other ways to show intent to abandon. Uh some cases have uh email communications that kind of confirm as much, others do not. It it is a factual inquiry. So you would be looking at the facts before you today um and determining whether um you believe by there's a prepoundonderance of the evidence to support staff's determination on that on that ground.

Great. And um does anybody else have anything? I have like a billion questions. Billion? Yeah. Can we do just a million of them? Okay. Okay. I don't I don't know who exactly I'm asking them to. So I I wonder if we don't have any qu I just want to know if we have have questions for um the appallet. Okay. Um and maybe we focus on those. Um Okay. Because I do want to allow the I mean we do need open for public comment but um I have a question for you.

I just want to clarify the applicant's position. um what you're saying tonight and I know we're not discussing the cup and we've had that guidance from staff but both parties keep bringing it up so we're either talking about it or we're not. Um but what I think I heard you say but I know we were rushed on time is that the landowner had no intent to abandon because simultaneously they were looking to obtain a cup based on that. So the use there was never an intent to abandon. It may have had cessation but not abandonment. Is that your position tonight?

Yes. Well said, Commissioner Jones. We accommodated the city and applied for a CUP just like in the Bower case, but that should not be used against us. In fact, it's evidence that we did not intend to abandon our use. Okay. I have a question because in are there other email exchanges that were not included because the email exchange that was included that's like I don't know 15 pages long. There's an email from um Mr. Dejon that says we will start having boats and RVs back on the property well before 123122. Did that happen?

Yes. And in fact, that the part of the email that you read, Commissioner Keane, is exactly staff is using it as an admission that we didn't do outdoor storage, but in fact, it's Fran talking to Travis saying, "Hey, we need to start our outdoor storage business here on this site." Right. And they did. Okay. And then So, were they do were they doing RV storage? It the it's outdoor vehicle and equipment storage that that's the class of use.

Okay. So that was the gas company. Was that through you or did they do that with We had a sorry we had a lease with the gas company. They stored their vehicles, operating vehicles and other equipment on the site. And when did that end? That ended around the end of 2023 and then we applied for a cup in 2024. Okay. Where is that cup conversation? Uh you're saying the email? Just any record that the city said you have to apply for a cup.

Did that happen on the phone call? Did it happen in person? It happened repeatedly in different ways. Um, and I'm I don't know. I wasn't actually involved at the time, the first time that they said you need to get a cup for that use, but it was I I can't tell you the exact time that they mentioned a cup cuz cuz I feel like that that's kind of a crucial thing regarding intent because if the city if if if the own so the owners were going to run their own vehicle, equipment, and storage business on their property that they owned, Did they apply for a business permit for that?

As I said earlier, I do not believe that they did, but that is not a basis to take their property, right?

No, I I'm just trying to get like the story and the timeline. So, I don't um So, so they're going to run a business. We don't know about the business uh permit. They at some point had some conversation with someone who said they needed a cup, but we don't have any documentation about that conversation like an email from like within your company. Hey, I had a conversation with Phil Dunore. He said I have to do a cup. Like I would like to see something like that that shows that the city said that because I think that that is a crucial piece of information for your story. not story. I'm sorry. I didn't mean story for your telling of facts. Um because if that if if that did occur, then obviously there is no intent to abandon. If for the past three years you've been working on a conditional use permit, I mean that clearly and shows intent. If if that did not happen or was misconstrued or miscommunicated in some way, then I feel like that changes the in intentions or or whatever. So, I don't know who could furnish that. If someone could furnish that, but I feel like

Can we actually pause this conversation, ask staff something real quick? Yeah. Is it our job tonight to establish intent? Um, according to page 38 under actions, it says, "Denying the appeal and upholding staff's determination, let's see, would signify agreement that the previous non-conforming use was discontinued for a period of six months. So, it sounds like what we're trying to uh establish is whether or not the use was discontinued for six months, not necessarily the intent of the appellent. Intent is is not what we're asking. So, and let me clarify some sidelines. So, the land use ceased in May or June of 2022. We have that conversation with the property owner. No land use has been licensed at that property as of today since that time.

A very temporary land use after uh the um land use had expired. A year maybe a year and a half of this temporary land use did establish on this property, but not through a business license. What we issue is a temporary site restoration permit for these temporary utility companies that locate all over the city. It's not a land use. It's not a business license. The property owner at no time ever approached the city about establishing a storage yard and no storage yard was ever established. So I think you're being misled here by the appellent in that nature. The day was cloudy today. So is the testimony. Our testimony is extremely clear. This site is vacant. It has been vacant since June of 2022. This is a very easy situation. This isn't about intent. Intent began when they applied for a conditional use permit in 2024. They've had many opportunities to bring that use permit to this planning commission and they've turned it down. We even prepared a report. We prepared conditions. We spent hours reviewing it with our public works team. We were ready to come forward. They didn't want to. We had it ready to go. They disagreed with the project conditions and said they didn't want to go forward. So, here we are. So, this is really about them disagreeing with how the property should be developed.

And this is another avenue. I just want to speak to kind of the burden of proof a little higher level here. Sure.

Um so you have received an appeal from the appellants, the people that do not believe that their non-conforming use has expired. Um the question before you tonight is they have the burden of proof to show you that their legal non-conforming use has not in fact expire expired. you are looking at whether there's a prepoundonderance of an of the evidence to support or not support staff's determination that the legal non-conforming use has expired. And I do just want to point out um there's some great discussion happening here. We are in the kind of question portion of this. So, I would like to maybe keep uh keep it to questions of the applicant at this time and then we can open it up for public comment and there will be a chance to come back for for full discussion of the commission.

Absolutely. I just felt like we were kind of getting off track with the intent and based on the information we've been provided that's not what we're being asked for. So, I just wanted to make sure we were bringing that in a little bit. Commissioner.

Yeah. So, I guess just kind of circling back, they there was no um there's nothing provided that shows that there was any business there. There's no business permit. There's no conversation about a condition. There's nothing there after these emails that we have from 2022. Um except for the city stating that the equipment rental was there for the gas company in 2023. And then there's I see no no other activity on that property. That's So I was just asking if I guess I'm not asking anything. It's okay.

I do not. Okay. And portion and are there any members of the public wishing to speak on this item? See that no one's walking up? We will close the public comment period. The public comment period is now closed. I'll bring this back for commissioner discussion. Do any commissioners have discussion on this item or would anyone like to make a motion?

I mean, I I have more comments, but I'd like to hear from other people.

I think at the end I think the appellant there's a lacking of supporting documentation of no event. Yeah, again, I'd like to reiterate that our scope here is incredibly narrow and we're not looking at the C. We're not looking at a lot of these items. Um, just want to reiterate that. Commissioner Jones,

I'd like Steph to bring up while we're deliberating the three options that were before I think they had laid out well the options and I think that can help inform our deliberations and staff could do that. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Not your recommendation that's leading this commission. The um the three alter Yeah. The alternatives the recommendation is one of the alternatives which can we take two minutes to cut and paste and get it on one thing so we can see. Yes, sir. Thanks. Editing in public is the thankless task. So I'd like to thank you for doing it. Thank you.

So just we can agree that this is the options not alternatives. Not at this point. I just wanted the commission to have a full view of what we're thinking about. I mean, I feel like based on the information in front of us, there was a pretty thorough conversation that happened in 2022. And there may have been some equipment storage after that date, but um I mean I've driven by that I drive by that place almost every single day. I can't remember the last time I saw something stored there. So it doesn't seem like it's been being used for outdoor equipment and storage for the last six months at least. I agree with that and but I still get hung up on notice and we even notice people for we debate it.

So we're talking about taking someone's lands rights. Maybe our ordinance does require does not require it and staff might be correct in that but I don't know that that's sufficient. So I'm concerned about notice to inform the six-month period. I don't know what standard we're hitting other than we think but we don't have clear documentation. We have conversations. We don't So that's that's the gap where I'm at right now. Isn't that a written notice though? I I mean it's a written notice that we have documented. Um I don't think an email's a notice. Okay.

I get what you're saying about notice, but at the same time like who were they supposed to notice and when? Because if there was never a business permit applied for or anything and this conversation didn't happen until they came for the cup in 2024, then how would we know to notice and who would we notice? I mean even the expiration of the uh business permit to sub middle of the C if that period is longer than six months wouldn't that technically fall into the category?

Yeah. I mean there's an email that says hey your business license expired. Are you doing business anymore? And he's like no I didn't do businesses until this date. So at that point what are I mean I I guess I I understand like you're saying like we should notice them. Hey, if you don't renew it within six months, you don't get to use this land use anymore. But at the same time, like that doesn't really make any sense for the level of administration we have in our city. That I mean that's like I don't even know how that would happen. And then also as far as taking away uh rights of a property, there is a process to operate this site as a vehicle storage and you know the the appellent was saying that there's 700 grand in upgrades on that. If it went through CU, we would see it. And I think they could make a case that that would be excessive for essentially taking an existing parking lot and, you know, parking some cars on it where 700 grand upgrades. I don't

I I don't dispute that, but I believe our guidance from council was that the cup wasn't the relevant item. It was six months. That's why I come back to the when is the date and what was the And if there's inadequate notice, that's my concern. I understand we don't have a mechanism. What I'm saying is the city might have a shortcoming because if we have this narrow action,

then the things about the CDP, well, they show intent and a lack of abandonment or not an issue, an intent to abandon, it's still not before us. So, I'm looking at that narrow six-month window and I so I'm putting a standard there that I can't find one from the city and I kind of process from the city. And so that's that's the gap I have. Well, could you could you argue that the uh property owner's response saying that there's no there's nothing going on with that property is that notice of the property owner to the city.

I'm not sure there's a standard for note issues in the proceeding. I'm not sure we're meeting. That's what I'm asking. Sure. Anyone else?

Would anyone like to make a motion? If it were easy, it' be on consent. Yeah.

So, I think I would make a motion that we draft resolution A denying the appeal. Can you put that back up on the screen for me? and upholding staff's determination that the right to continue the previous non-conforming outdoor vehicle and equipment storage use at 4990 trafficway uh APN whatever has expired per task municipal code chapter 9-7 second Roll call. Commissioner Keane,

yes. Commissioner Heath, yes. Vice Chairperson Pacio, yes. Commissioner Frell, yes. Commissioner Jones, no. Motion passes 5 to one. And I to one. As staff, I'll note that this this action is appealable to the city council within 14 days of today and thank you for all your work tonight.

We can Yeah. Chair chair Anderson, you can resume your station. Just wanted to mentioned while chief Anderson is being receated um that our IT team has been watching the meeting and some of our microphones are a little low. So, we don't want to use a library voice, but we don't want to use an outside screaming voice and we want to make sure the microphones are uh near our mouths so that our recordings can pick up for our documentation. Thank you.

Okay, can you hear me? All right. Thank you for having me back and thank you vice chair fin such an excellent job. Thank you for that. And uh where are we at here? The next item is going to be uh commissioner comments and reports. Correct. That's correct. Anybody have any reports to me? I just have a question. Oh, question. Yeah, go ahead.

We're still getting Chick-fil-A, right? Still moving forward. My daughter says I have to check at every single meeting. So, I'm going to ask at every single meeting. Construction permits will be soon delivered to the city for our review. Fantastic. Yes. And they're not required to have the vegetation screening around the dumpsters or pro hygiene. Correct. Yeah. So, it's it's going to be an easy review. Um, so it's moving forward. It went to city council. It got approved and construction permits are already on their way. I'm just I'm just going to let you know just make sure you know what's going on with Chick-fil-A at every meeting because my daughter wants an update.

It's coming. It's on its way. And then I think even before then, we'll have a another chicken place down the street called Wingstop where GameStop used to be. They just had to change one name to stop. I've had as many questions about Chick-fil-A as I have the relicensing of a certain power plant. So, I want to be sure that we're on track. Add that to the agenda. Well, we we love Chick-fil-A to eat. And uh at our house, we actually make mock Chick-fil-A and Chick-fil-A sauce. So, I'll have to do a comparison. Maybe I'll bring mine and we'll just Costco has real Chick-fil-A sauce. They have it in like giant jars. Oh yeah. Yeah,

we do allow mobile vendors in our community. There you go. Very much fair joke.

Knock off Chick-fil-A. There you go. All righty. Well, um are there any other uh commission reports or anything anybody else would like to bring forward? Just one item. I I do appreciate staff report and I do this all day and sometimes all night and so I just you know I like to drive rigor into a process. So, I really appreciate what we had tonight and I really appreciate the edit on on the fly and I would just ask when there are the and you do a nice job of framing the options for us, but I would like when there's when we have that before us that we can just present the options as recommended by staff all of them and not in two slides or three slides if we can do that and maybe ask for more detail, but I think that helps this commission engage with each other and take into account public comment and the staff guidance at the same time. I don't want to lose sight of your guidance to those motions. That's what the energy was behind. So, thank you.

Yes, sir. We'll do wonderful on the fly work, by the way. Great. Love that. All right. Any other comments? Okay, we'll go ahead and close down commission comments and move on to the report.

As I mentioned earlier, EIR is out there. We're continuing to move forward with pieces of the zoning, the general plan. I think the finish line is going to happen. I'm hoping in September. I think we'll be before you guys in July, August with the final versions of everything, eat zoning, general plan, EIR for adoption. Um, and so we want to get that wrapped up. That's happening. So, it'll be bits and pieces of that coming. But the next time we see you, we'll be talking about a preschool, one that pre-existed and um lost lost its entitlement to due to discontinuence. We know that story. Um but they are coming forward with a use permit. That should be fairly straightforward. Um so we'll be talking about that. And a reminder to that um coffee with a planner will be at Malibu Brew third Thursday of this month, the 21st of the month. And um I think that's all that's on the radar at the moment, but I'm happy to answer your questions about any development projects or policy projects that are in the works. Thank you.

So just to clarify, Mr. Dunmore, was you saying May 19th is this school's Yes. And then anything loaded up loaded up on June 2nd. And I'll give you a fair warning. I will not be in the country that day. So if you want something that doesn't have my attention, schedule it for that night.

Okay. All right. Um I'm not aware of our agenda for that date, but I hope you're going to be enjoying a wonderful summer vacation because summer's coming and I've got some plans and I hope others do as well. That does remind us if you do have any planned vacations um you could send those to Crystal that information and make sure that you know when we might have forums when we might not

business travel May 19th person. No. So noticed I've heard that word vacation before. I still don't know what it means. Right. Okay. Well, thank you so much, uh, director. We will, um, if there's no further comments or requests for information, we'll go ahead and journ this meeting until the next regular meeting on May 19th, 26.