Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Planning Commission to order. The first item of business is the approval of the agenda. Any changes from staff?

Madam Chair, members of the Commission, we do not have anything for changes for tonight.

How about the Commissioners? Any changes?

Move approval. Second.

It was approved by Commissioner, or moved by Commissioner Schindler, seconded by Commissioner Scanlon. Any discussion? If not, all in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed, nay. Motion carries. The next item of business is the approval of the consent agenda. The consent agenda items are considered routine and will be enacted with a single motion without discussion unless a commissioner or a citizen requests to have any items separately considered. It will then be moved to the regular agenda for consideration. Can I get a motion of approval?

So moved. Second.

Made by Commissioner Scanlon, seconded by Commissioner Halas. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. Motion carries. The next item of business tonight is a public hearing. I will try to pronounce it. I think it's Las Campeones. Close enough. And that is with Carter. Hi, Carter. yes thank you well first of all open the public hearing we will now open the public hearing for agenda 4a the affidavit of publication for the notice of public hearing is available for inspection in the planning department everyone wishing to speak at this public hearing should be sure to fill out the attendance roster in the back Please include your name and your address so that accurate records can be maintained. We will begin the procedure with a brief presentation by city staff, followed by a presentation by the petitioner of the hearing, and upon the conclusion of the presentation, city staff will be asked to comment on the proposal's conformance with pertinent regulations and policies. After that, comments will be taken from the general public. Kay Carter.

All right, good evening Madam chair and Commissioners so tonight's request is a conditional use permit from Los campiones to operate a commercial recreation facility at 5550 upper 147 street West. is located in the BP business park zoning district where commercial recreation facilities are only permitted in the BP district through conditional use permit provided all activities are. occur entirely indoors, the applicant is proposing a 24-hour fitness facility within the existing building. So this property is located at the southwest corner of Pilot Knob Road and Upper 147th Street West. property is zoned BP Business Park. The surrounding zoning districts include industrial to the west, business park additionally to the south, residential to the north and east that includes the M5C and PD 163 zones 4 and 5 which currently have medium density townhome developments. The site plan shows the existing 49,000 square foot building and the proposed use of the entire facility. The site provides 317 parking spaces. So based on the city parking requirements for commercial recreation uses, 304 spaces are required. So this does meet our minimum parking requirements. The property includes a shared parking agreement allowing 64 spaces there. to be utilized by River Valley Church just to the south. We do not anticipate any conflicts with the gym parking and the church parking due to those differing peak operating times. So as for the building and the exterior, the applicant proposes repainting the exterior black to align with their branding. The existing tinted windows on the building will remain to limit any light visibility from the interior lighting to those neighboring residential properties. And there was also no additional parking lot lighting included with the proposal. So as for landscaping, we have identified a few areas where there was some removals or some landscaping that have died over the years. So due to the 24-hour proposed operation, the proximity to residential properties, we are recommending a condition for additional landscape screening along Upper 147th Street and Pilot Knob Road. So those would be in the red box areas, as you can see here. So a landscape plan will be required in the future with the building permit application and that would be subject to city approval at that time as well. As for other conditions, we have several conditions recommended with the conditional use permit. The full list of conditions is within the draft resolution that's provided in your guys' packets for the commission's review. I won't read all these in their entirety, but the conditions are aimed at providing compatibility with the proposed 24-hour use and those adjacent residential uses as well. So the recommended action tonight is to open the public hearing, receive public comments, and then close the public hearing. As you all know, the Planning Commission typically does not act on an item the same night as public hearing. However, if there are no outstanding comments and the Commission concurs, we do recommend approval of the conditional use permit for Los Campeones to operate a commercial recreation facility in the BP Business Park Zoning District, attaching conditions thereto. i can stand for any questions the commission may have additionally we do have the owner benjamin lower in attendance tonight if the commission has any questions for him directly as well okay thanks carter carter i know i read somewhere but i can't find it how many years is that building sat vacant four years i believe it was either i knew it was an even year either 2022 or 2024 i think i noted in there all right so far

Anybody have questions for Carter? Commissioner Scanlon.

Carter, with the parking, you mentioned there's 64 spaces shared. River Valley Church has a lot of things that go on in the evening. Has that been looked at in terms of the number of spaces they use in comparison that that's going to be any type of issue?

Yeah, we didn't hear from River Valley Church directly, they would have received notice of the project. We were reviewing some old aerial photographs. And we did notice that this this shared parking does get utilized. But in speaking with the applicant, even though they do, they may have peak hours in the in the morning or evening, it does kind of just kind of stay even throughout the day. So we didn't expect any full capacity moments of conflict.

And then with this building, do you know when it was originally built?

I believe I have it. I think it was the year 2000, if I'm remembering correctly.

um that leads to my question on lighting and um residential on two sides of it especially on the active side of the building that with the residential that with the age of the building a lighting plan might be um appropriate to take a look at what's there and how that may or may not be affecting neighboring residential properties

Certainly. And we did engage the applicant with that and they were willing to provide a lighting plan as it kind of progresses towards the building permit stage as well.

Okay. And you mentioned color. River Valley uses a similar black, I think, and gray. I'm not sure without looking at it, I know, because we made them, they want to do like all black and we made them or had them reconsider that and did some panel adjustments to soften that a little bit. I don't know if anybody else had any concerns with color on. I know this isn't part of our looking at tonight but with the signage maybe the applicant can talk about the sign that's out front is that lit or how's that

yeah we haven't received full signage plans yet we've received renderings um illuminated signage would typically be allowed in a commercial or net or in an industrial area but the applicant could speak on that probably better concern is there's residential within certain distance that has to be taken into consideration yeah yeah we would certainly review um we have a foot candle requirements for illuminated signage as well so okay all right i'll let them talk to that so all right thank you absolutely do we know the closest what is it in feet or whatever for the closest i did not measure exactly um the building is set back a little bit with the parking lot and landscaping buffer that um exists uh i wouldn't be able to say a direct number but i'm guessing it's the people in north of them that is more concerning right Yeah, so there's those two landscape gaps, if I can get to that. Yes, so a gap here to the north in which residential is across upper 147 there, and then a gap here as well in which residential is across Pilot Knob Road there. So the idea is that those those gaps would get filled in with something that kind of provides an opaque screen. So okay.

um it was 2022 since it's been sitting vacant so four years and it looks like the building was constructed in 2002 so it was q star educational system so i'm guessing it was just operative during the day and stuff like that obviously we'll wait for the applicant to come up but we can hear about how many members come in in the evening hours and stuff like that kind of the same thing we went through at the place and on 42 recently about the concern, I guess, with citizens. Anyone else have any questions for Carter? Okay, thank you, Carter. We would invite the applicant up. Ladies and gentlemen, we could tell by how you look that you probably were the gym owner.

Thank you. Thank you for that compliment. Well, I'll just let you start with questions, and I can have some comments to what Carter was speaking with you about as well.

Sure. Does anybody have any additional questions? Commissioner Halas?

Well, you got a nice letter from someone here that has been looking forward to you coming this way and saying that the closest is quite a ways away for your closest facility. Can you talk about where you have facilities?

Yeah, our closest location right now is about eight and a half miles and that's in Burnsville. That opened last September and it's been going very well. So it's coming up on one year and a lot of success, a lot of happy people there. about 3,000 members, and everyone loves it. I was just there before here, and I love being there, so yeah.

About this time of the day, how many people would be?

That location has something like 270 spots dedicated for the gym. Our business model is a little bit different where a different gym might have like really busy in the morning, really busy in the night where we have more of like a continued usage kind of throughout the day and having the 24 hour access also helps alleviate you know, like the busiest times. But a lot of times, whether it's noon or 7 p.m., it's about as busy all the time. So at the absolute busiest at that location, which is 43,000 square feet, about 240 spots are being used. And another similar location in Brooklyn center. Same has about 220 spots being used at peak hours because we've done all those studies to make sure we have enough. So this location, we don't foresee ever using all of the spots. And it seems like the, the river Valley church, although we do, you know, there's an agreement in place. Now they have so much parking as well on the other side and and in the back that I don't foresee there ever being. any real, you know, overlap or, you know, maxing out at the same time. Um, cause there's just so, so much parking for what we, we do. Yeah.

I read that also about you don't have the morning peak and stuff like that. Can you explain why? Is it because you don't have the classes that other... Yeah, we don't have any classes.

We do quite a bit of personal training, but that's one-on-one. So we're never having like, you know, 60 people coming for a class. And also our clientele is a lot more dedicated or like, you know, they're not the typical clientele where they're just like coming at night and you're like going on the treadmill, you know. So we have... Yeah, very steady usage throughout the day. I think the people that come to our location, they might come, you know, three or four or five or six times a week. And so they're like very dedicated and very regular. And my people don't... like it really busy so they like to say oh it's you know i'm not coming at 6 p.m because it's going to be busier so it's much more spread out yeah that makes sense so that would probably answer my question about if it's open 24 hours if you have trainers during the day and stuff there's probably not a lot of activity in the evenings yeah like for example at 2 a.m there might be a dozen cars you know but kind of throughout the it's being used all the time but they're obviously busier times. But like I said, whether it's like 8 a.m. or 2 p.m. or 7 p.m., it's quite even during the day.

Thank you. Commissioner Scanlon?

Madam Chair, I know there's a letter in our packet that kind of talked about your company. Can you talk a little bit more about the whole concept? Yeah, I'd love to.

I'm the owner with my wife. We have six kids. We've been doing it. pretty much nonstop since 2010. Started with one location and just kind of kept going and going. And if this was to open, it would be our 11th location and our 10th building that we own. So I really take a lot of pride in owning the building and owning the business and just taking really good care of it inside and out. And, you know, there's a lot of pride because my goal is to have it forever. And I have six children, so I want them to be able to, you know, enjoy that as well. So multi-generational is my goal. And it's for everybody. We have obviously the treadmills and large open turf spaces and equipment that's really for everybody. Then we also have equipment that's much more serious and technical. And so whether you're just getting off work and coming to work out or you're training for a world championship in different sports, we have everything really that you would need. um just a very wide variety of equipment and kind of like spaces within the gym so for example burnsville it's kind of like three gyms in one where we have like a very serious power lifting weightlifting area and then kind of like a very much like a general population area and then like a large room with just lots and lots of machines that are i would say more advanced so it's kind of like it's something for everybody and that works really good because um We want like the common thing is that every, every person is different and doing different stuff, but everyone's there to work hard. You know, we don't have a lot of distractions. We don't have TVs, we don't have pools. It's just like, it's just a giant gym. So that's my dream. And, um, fortunately other people enjoy it too. Yeah. So yeah, I just love it and just want to keep going and being every, every city really.

You've kind of hit a niche or a formula that is unique that some of the other fitness centers aren't offering to that kind of core group, if you want to call it that.

Yeah, I think that a lot of other brands are sort of doing very similar things and kind of competing against each other. And we're kind of like a whole different thing. And so it's like, well, Once you once a lot of people, once they come to my gyms, they don't want to go anywhere else because it's like, oh, this is different and special. And, you know, the back of my shirt says we're strength meets community. And that's what it is. It's like you go there to hang out and it's your friends and you look forward to being there with like people that are, you know, doing the same thing as you. So, yeah, I like it a lot.

good good two questions or one question is the um the couple things that have been brought up in terms of the landscaping changes to be um help with screening and a lighting plan to take a look at if any adjustments or things that need to be made with the fact that you're a 24-hour operation compared to previous design of the building if you have concerns of working through staff with that and taking

yeah i can talk on that a bit so just seeing the landscaping when you're there there's those spots do look bad so we would make those better anyway and so we would be happy to do a landscaping plan and you know plant trees and shrubbery and just make it look better and then also kind of have more of a screening, you know, and and then inside the building, we are going to gut basically the entire building and kind of redo it. So we'll have a whole new lighting plan. And in general, my gyms are much darker than you would expect, you know, walking into a different gym. And so that allows people to kind of focus more on what they're doing. And so it's LEDs on dimmers. And so Yeah, well, it'll be, you know, when people first walk in, they're surprised at the darkness, you know, but then once you're in there, you get accustomed to it and you like it. So having a, like, I don't foresee ever having a complaint of being like too bright, you know, and then obviously it's tinted. So it's fairly dark, you know, if you're looking in, you don't really see. And then also the signs are backlit and I wouldn't, you know, it's mostly black with like a white. So I wouldn't describe it as bright, you know. when you're there looking at it, it looks good, but it's not like, uh, you know, harmful to the eyes that it's, it's, everything's quite dark, you know, and you had mentioned, you know, doing some gray on the church. We're open to doing gray. We, my other buildings have, uh, some combination of red as well. And so here there's some brick, some brick spots that we thought about either leaving, leaving it brick or doing it red or kind of like a a kind of a gray or just all black everywhere. So we would start where we know we want to do black and then go from there. I paint the buildings, so I kind of get to do it, you know, do it as I like. So yeah.

Right.

So we might even just have a lot of, uh, the existing brick and black.

Just to loop back on the lighting, you mentioned about the interior lighting, and my focus of the lighting plan is the exterior parking lot lighting in terms of how that interacts with the neighboring properties with a 24-hour type business and the importance of taking those residential part of the community into consideration.

Yeah, so we always submit a lighting plan for inside and outside, and I would just work with my contractor and the, you know, the engineer just, you know, to show how much, you know, light is coming down and stuff. So we did that at at least two of my locations. It was part of this process, and that went very well. You know, obviously I want it well lit and safe, but I'm not trying to have it, like, blinding any...

you know because just like i want to be there forever a lot of the people that are living there are going to be there forever and yeah i don't want anyone to be unhappy yeah and that's something that's staff is going to do a good job working with you and any of the between the landscaping adjustments and the exterior lighting to you know find that happy medium for everybody on that absolutely so of course yeah yeah we'll very happy to submit all plans and get it approved and all that stuff yep thanks for your comments much appreciated yeah thank you

Like you said, you have serious people that are there. So I don't see any goofing off going on in the middle of the night outside in the parking lot.

No. And you typically, you have to be 18, um, just to come into the building or you have to come with a parent or a trainer and then no one's allowed, um, under 18 at night. So we, yeah, we very much don't want, um, you know, like teenagers or even younger people to be like running around or causing trouble inside or outside the building. Um, Yeah, we take it really seriously. Because it's a liability, too. We don't want anything to happen to anybody, day or night.

Commissioner Pruitt, do you have any questions?

No, I think it looks wonderful. Thank you.

Commissioner Schindler?

I like it. Thank you. Just one more question. With it being open 24 hours, self-check-in, people are...

It'll be staffed 24 hours. Burnsville is the same way. The smaller locations, we have a good check-in system and very good, even at the staffed locations, we have very good camera systems. Make sure everything's well lit and safe. There's no places to sort of like hide or anything like that. Like everything's wide open. And then, yeah, bigger locations like this, it's staffed with at least one person um 24 hours so at night you would go in you would check in with a person they could sell you a drink if you need help on a machine they're there to help you and um so it's incredibly safe um both from like a business standpoint and from like a being you know just someone there to help you yep very good thank you yeah thank you yeah that's interesting because most 24-hour places that i know of yeah well this this was a huge huge place so also you know they're doing cleaning and maintenance and um yeah it's a lot to take care of

Mr. Scanlon?

Madam Chair, the most important question I need to ask you, what is your time frame for opening?

Well, the plan is to purchase it in October or November, and then planning to open around May or June of next year.

Okay.

I kind of just have the same process every time. So now we're getting very close to opening in Maplewood, and we'll get that open and hopefully start working on this.

Again, thank you.

I love it. Yeah. Appreciate it.

Okay, no further questions. Thank you, Benjamin.

Thank you very much. Yeah. Thank you, everyone. Thank you.

So at this time, we will ask for if there's anyone in the audience that would like to come up, please come to the podium to speak and address all comments and questions to the chair. Anyone? Yes, please. Just state your name and address too.

My name is Kelly Otis and state what? Your address. 5708 Upper 147th Street West. I just am wondering, just due to the new exit from 147th West you can only take a right what the plan is if there's 3 000 members obviously not all at the same time but what is there a plan for like extended traffic I know on Sundays and Wednesdays um there's cops out there a lot directing traffic because there's such an overflow of traffic this will obviously increase it um is there a plan for that Because as my understanding, is there another entrance into the area other than? Ask the city engineer to see what he knows.

Madam Chair, thank you for your question. Yes, so as the resident pointed out, Dakota County has recently assisted the city with changes to 147th Street West at Pilot Knob. So now guests leaving the gym who wish to enter Pilot Knob will be forced to take a right turn, which will kind of lead them southbound. There are, you know, obviously other accesses to... the building from either what is that energy way or from the west additionally as the applicant has kind of said and as we've reviewed this application we didn't We didn't feel that it was fair to the applicant to assume that they would have the 3,000 members at a time. And when we do our traffic analysis, we do assume that anything that's allowed within the use, being a gym facility or like the previous building, the Questar, we do bake in a level of traffic volume at all times. So when we were looking at 147th with the county, even though the building was vacant we assumed that there would be traffic there as well so um events that the church pays for police presence um if we i guess our answer to that if the gym had an event similar to that where they really were maxing out we have a process and a mechanism through a an event permit that would allow them to secure police presence on site to direct traffic okay okay that helped yeah thank you thank you anybody else

There are no further comments. I have a close this public hearing. It is the policy of the Planning Commission not to act on an item on the same night as the public hearing. The Planning Commission will weigh all comments and information received tonight in its deliberations at future meetings. This item will continue to appear on future Planning Commission agendas until a recommendation on the petition can be forwarded to City Council. But meaning there are no outstanding public comments or questions.

commissioners how is your field do you would you like to make a motion certainly uh madam chair i would make a motion to recommend approval of a conditional use permit for los campianos to operate a commercial recreational facility in the bp business park zoning district and attaching conditions there too i'll second that does he have to state all the conditions maybe our city attorney could uh

The question was, do they have to state all the conditions that are listed in the draft resolution?

Your mic's not on, Sharon. Your mic's not on.

I'm sorry. That's OK. Madam Chair, you may make a recommendation to approve the draft resolution as written. OK.

i will approve the recommendation of what was just read so with that being said i had a first motion and a second motion um anybody who wanted discussion beforehand any discussions if not all in favor say aye aye aye opposed nay motion carries thank you thank you guys thank you benjamin Okay, with that being said, we are now at, there's no land use action items tonight, so Mr. Timbinetti for other business, please.

um thank you madam chair members of the commission just a reminder we do have a meeting coming up uh on august 19th and we do plan to have two items on that night so we'd love to have you here for that also followed by our september 2nd regular meeting also uh you'll be reminded of this at the 19th but we do have that joint meeting with our planning commission and city council scheduled for now september 16th It'll be at 5.30 p.m. just before the regular meeting. If we don't happen to have anything on that agenda for that night, we may go about a little bit, an hour and a half is what we would like to just call it a day at, but we will be feeding you, so we would love to have you to get fed and enjoy our company with our counselors, We intend to also introduce you to our new planning consultants from TC2, and they're going to lay out the strategy or what the new comp plan process is going to be taking off like, or what's going to happen in the next about two years to finally finish off this project. We're starting some housekeeping measures right now, but we still want to get you involved and tell you where we plan to go. If you have some goals or ideas that we can focus on, that's where we want you to share those with us.

I thought it was very interesting last night that there were postcards given out for all the residents to go onto a website and scan and give their opinion, too. So if anybody is out there listening, do that.

Thank you for reminding me, Jill. Madam Chair, there's a QR code on the back side of this card that there's a really nice survey. It's a very quick 10-question survey, I believe. But we want to hear from residents, and we encourage that. There are some questions about what you like about the community, what don't you like. And we also have pick two, so we want to make sure they fill those out and just give us some ideas or where we can focus on. And then we plan to do a follow-up survey probably about three-fourths of the way into the project and just see how are we meeting some expectations on that. So we'd love to have more, the more the better. Please answer those surveys if you can.

Very good idea.

Yep.

Okay, can I get a motion to adjourn?

I move.

Commissioner Scanlon moved that and seconded by Commissioner Halas. All in favor say aye.

Aye.

This meeting is adjourned. Thank you.