Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

in case someone wants it. Okay. 5:00 start this meeting of planning and zoning commission. Um would you call for role? Yes. Uh, member Carolyn Espit here, member Karen Duncan here, vice chair Carson Budsa, and chair James here, and we have a court. And um, anyone sign up for public comment? There is none.

Yeah. Go to the consent agenda. Basically, this is the approval of the minutes from September 3rd. Make a motion that we approve for minutes. I second that. I'll approve. Raise your hand. Say I. You obain. Spain because I did not attend. Okay. And did not watch the video. Three vote four. Sorry about not watching TV.

Oh. Okay. So we'll move to report from P. No, nothing really to report on. Okay, let's move regular agenda number one public hearing on variance request. I'll open up the public hearing at 501. There's no one anyone call nobody home. No.

Okay. 52 application. Okay. Number two, workshop on variance request for five villa meadows. Okay. Let's call it 503 help in the workshop on Gil Meadows. Basically, I don't know if you you Karen, I don't know if you know this neighborhood. Is that Domino's where is No, she lives behind it. Okay.

Okay. This is squeezed in between the apartments and where Brook Meadow curves around. Okay. There's other homes and it's um it's a small small neighborhood. If you look out front, there's a sign that says there is a broken sign. Yeah, I've just never intentions. It dates back more than 20 years. They they created this neighborhood and they they built what you might call garden homes. The preliminary report I put a brief uh discussion about that and they had 18 lots and they built on 12 of them. And um we have a request for lot number five from a builder who has built other homes years ago on this property on this in this neighborhood and since the very the um change ordinance have changed. Okay. um where we've got 25 foot setbacks in front and back. He couldn't build he couldn't build the way the other homes are if we if we um adhere to those setbacks. They also have in the back um you I think there's a picture of it in there a common area. If you see between the homes left and right, there's a 33 foot common area. It goes

back and so the homes were built up against that common area and they all had um the requirement was only 10 foot uh driveway. So you see some small driveway there. So, they requested um first they requested that the uh we go back to the 10-ft front and zero lot line at the rear. Um they also requested um where it currently says three parking places, they want to change it to one. And then finally they wanted a onecar garage. Basically what we discussed is that the 10 ft set back in the front was reasonable since all the other homes were built that way and the zero line. He's he's willing I think to to to do a setback in the back. I'm not sure, but they've got 33 ft of common area back there. So what we figured is we will honor the agree to the 10 foot front and the zero lot line in the back, but we also want to give him credit for half the distance in the the common area because there's an HOA in effect with a commoner. So you can't build on that common. So no one is getting credit for the permeability

limits um for that combinator. So we recommended that they get that credit. Um, as far as the onecar garage, we didn't like that because that would be a difference from all the other all the other homes have twocar garages. Well, they call them two car garages. I don't know if you could fit two cars in them, but they're the 20 foot garages. So, all of them. So we we decided that it was agreed that we should keep two cars garage. So basically this is the preliminary report. So we're recommending that they honor the the 10-ft front zero lot line back. Um we do not agree to reducing parking places to one place. Um, and then we do not agree to the one car garage.

I think the neighbors would concur. I think what we found we I was really hoping we'd get people to show up at our last meeting and this meeting because I'd really like to hear what the neighbors have to say. But if they're not too worried about the ones that called in Dr. So Jim seemed to be worried about them going two stories. Yeah, they that was the consensus of the people who called or came by. They were just worried about big twotory houses to meet his requirements he has to go up. They were of the mindset they would be happy with what's there. Yeah. What's there so that it's congruent, right?

And I think to get that going back to what Mr. Miller was saying about the green belt in in the back that it's the recommendation that he includes what backs up to his lot in his um imperous coverage calculation. Doesn't get the bill passed. His bill line stops. But as far as coverage that if that was allowed, he'd be able to build exactly what there only a one car garage. There's going to be somebody three cars that there and there's going to be problems. So, I I agree with the whole thing you guys decided.

Yeah. The other thing, too, is that those two-car garages, like I said, I don't think most people use them for two cars. No, but if you have a three-bedroom home that small a lot, you're going to need storage. So, um, well, it's it's all I mean, it's what appears congruent when we go into the neighborhood, but we couldn't stop him. If he wanted to go two stories, we can't stop him cuz two because they're allowed. It's it's within the ordinance.

So, he would not need a variance to go up a second story. It can only be 500 ft square feet, but he can put a second story once. So, we're trying to accommodate him as best we can, especially giving him credit for the permeability in the back. I'm not sure the hard lines on the council go for that, but we'll see. Um, so Carson, you have any think? Yeah, I I I a lot of thinking and work.

Well, we took a lot of pictures and we we did um he was trying to um meet the permeability cover by using a special brick driveway, which I didn't like. Carson thought it was okay. And I like papers. Yeah. Here that has the driveway with just the two strips of concrete and gravel,

right? But my argument was that it's going to be a 10-ft driveway. It's going to be like this. So, um, but it turns out that's not an issue for very that's an issue for building permit. So when he submits a final plan, it's up for engineering to decide whether or not they can use that rec. Okay. So um if no one has any further to say, I'll close this out of the it's uh what am I reading? 212 512 out of the workshop and now we'll discuss and take appropriate action on the varian request provide. I make a motion that we accept the prelim preliminary report as a final report and forward that to second. All in favor raise your hand say I.

Okay. Next thing is the workshop on the parking spaces. Felt like I was back on coordinates from you. Um, okay. It's 5:13. Let's open up the workshop on that. If you'll read through, you know, the preliminary report, this one basically says what we talked about. Um, we recommend that they um they changed the wording. Now, I changed it a little bit from what we talked about because I realized that we have zones a little bit of not We have zones that require onecar garages or that allow onecar garages and even a a zone that requires no. So, what I changed the wording to say was all zones that require a twocar garage and a 25 foot front setpack shall have a hard surface driveway measuring at a minimum 20 ft wide and 25 ft long. But in any event, the length must reach the public road. If a smaller garage or a shorter frontal setback is allowed for a particular zone, the hard surface driveway must be as wide as the garage is each the public road. So, what we've done, the original ordinance um basically said you had to have three parking area, but

um it it appears the sentiment on the council is they wish to change that. Um especially since cars are different lanes. I mean, if you have couple of pickup trucks,

they're going to take up everything. those things are so long. So we changed we recommend that they change it to that wording. In other words, just go on the dimensions. Don't talk about parking spaces. Now there is another paragraph. Um it's uh 15629 that talks about off streetet parking and it basically describes how you can you know create a parallel parking area the front yard and whatever but that's optional but it describes how you do that.

So if someone wants to create a third parking space that zones that conform to for those requirements. Also, the second paragraph of this one had useless language in it. Um, if you look at the third sentence, it says, "Since streets are narrow and provide limited parking area, residential off streetet parking requirements are essential." Well, that's good to know, but it's just totally not needed

enough in the ordinance. Um, that would more likely be in the discussion about the off street park. And then finally, the last paragraph of 059 is redundant to A. If you see on this, this is the original wording of 059. And then on the second page, that 059 that's our recommended changes. Make sense?

So, can you define a hard surface driveway? Because I I mean even in Utah folks did those two concrete things where your tires went and they had gravel in between. I know there's one at least one out here. So that's that's not our job. That's basically his job surface driveway. So are those legal with Yes. Why what's hard about tell me why surface? Well, those the way that they started doing that to get around the impervious cover, right? Exactly. Um, so

cover. Yeah. To add her coverage. So, um, it used to, I may be wrong, but the way it was explained to me, it used to be three concrete parking spots. That was what the code was. And now council's relaxed, you know, say you can put gravel, you make you a parking spot in the right way. And I think granite I think gravel or crushed granite or good surf and that would be my take on so I mean we need I mean most of the ordinance have definitions. Does this one have definitions?

No. And we want to stay vague on that. Let the let the engineers and the city administrator in the building permit process, okay, decide that because I would not have thought that crushed granite in between strips of concrete would be a hard surface, but I mean obviously they're going in and I think they're great. the uh the duplex next to us because they required him to do three. They created those where there's two strips of concrete and they've got grass in between.

That's even prettier. Yeah. It's it's terrible when you when you think about a council that wants to increase pvious cover and then they're requiring all this concrete to put for example on the uh the villas if that guy had to put it in the third parking space he basically had to concret concrete his front yard. So, but we we want to stay vague on that because

I just was curious because I drive by it all the time, right? And I wouldn't call it personally, not being an engineer, a hard surf, you know, I would call it two strips of hard surface with pvious cover in between. I mean, that's what we've got. We took our whole yard out and we've got different colors of granite telling rock telling you what to do where. So that's fine if if it works the city. One thing we have learned is the city can't dictate taste. No.

So if a gravel driveway constitutes a hard surface, which I think it should we can dictate that, but we can't dictate. But see, you've got a definition that I don't have. That's that's my interpretation of the definition. So yeah, but I think if you get too deep into um opinion about what constitutes our driveway, you get more into the liability area.

No, it's that's fine. I just if I were somebody wanting to put in a driveway because I bought a house predating driveways in this neighborhood, which there are some. I would think this is telling me I have to pour concrete or something, but it's okay because there is a process that comes after this process to tell people what they can and cannot do. But it would be nice to have the definition. It would be nice to have a definition

because if you say hard surface, you know, when when they used to say hard surface, it was like country.

Mhm. You know, then people said, "Well, you know, I need I need to put a debt on and and I'm already at 29.5%. You know, what am I going to do?" And I said, "Well, just take out a you know, 100 ft of of concrete, build it with gravel, which now makes that 100% impervious, and you got it made." Well, you could take that now and go, "Okay, well, hard surface is anything hard. You could have a wooden driveway. Yeah. So there's no I mean hard surface is like okay. So maybe maybe we need to look at what is what what it entails which is you know at least 51% concrete or something. I don't know. But it's there's no definition of it. So and it could it could get out of hand. I know if people started putting gravel driveways in that a large number of people in the city would go berserk

for taste. For taste, not because this I we were driving by a house. I don't know what we were wandering around yesterday when we got back and we were there was a house that still had a dirty driveway up somewhere. But river there, but it's not. Yeah, that's driveways. Excellent. I probably have the only driveway in Wood Creek that doesn't meet the road.

Well, I mean, our travel and our our grants that used to go down the street whenever it rained hard. So, neither I This is fine. The council And we did we did address that. We did talk about hard surface and whatever, but we wanted to keep the wording that was and you know again when it comes to the building permit they will figure it out.

That's where they decide and they can wrangle it out. And it's best I think it could be done at that level because if someone puts in like one of those deals with the grass in the middle or something and the city comes in and says, "No, we want you to concrete holiday." They might be, "No, I'm going to take you to court on that because it just says hard surface. The car meets the hard surface." off. So at any rate, uh this at least fixes the fact that we're not requiring three parking spaces. So okay, anybody else have anything to say? Take us out of 520.

Yeah, 525. 525. Um, okay. Let's move on to discuss and take appropriate action on the parking space change request from councel. Um, I make a motion that we forward this preliminary report as final report to the board of adjustment recommending the wording on 156.059 59 that's outlined in the report. Second. All in favor raise any say.

I Okay. Considerations for agenda items for next one. Um, as I said before, there'll be no meeting in November or in December unless something should come up on the council where they need us to work on something. But it's the um election season. There'll be a new mayor next month, so they'll have to sort it out as to what they want to do.

So, they're going to sort all of us out. We are we are asking everybody to to just let Carrie know I mean say hey yeah I'd like to stay on or I'm definitely want to go off or whatever you want to do. I mean but do you have to start over with the two years? No they're one year we're doing one year now. Yeah they've changed it to one year. Okay. And if you haven't filled out the volunteer appreciation sign up, it's on the website like at the top of the page. It's like an appreciation event.

Yeah. We want to get anybody that's ever volunteered for anything to let us know. So, we'll make sure you're on the on the invite list when we It'll be in the spring. Oh, no. No. No. They're they're still trying to figure out what we're going to do.

Okay. So, if nothing else, I'll adjourn the meeting at 5:26.