Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Okay, it's 501 regular meeting of planning and zoning commission comes to order. Uh I'll go ahead and uh do a roll call. Okay, fine. Um Carolyn, is that here? Yes. Karen Duncan, present. Miller, present. Um Pat uh and Carson are not not here yet. We'll say at 5:30. Yeah. Okay. Uh first the consent agenda agenda approve minutes for March 5th meeting. Um I'll look them over if they see them. So um do we have to actually make a motion on that? Yeah. I mean, and the consent agenda, you make a motion. Get a second. Yeah, I thought I couldn't find it in Robert's rules. Um, okay. Uh, I make a motion that we approve the minutes from the March 5th to 2025 meeting. I second. Okay. All in favor? I second item is workshop to discuss issues involving Wood Creek Community Survey. Um I've got you're going into work 502 502 going into workshop. The reason that's on here is um it's unfortunate that we didn't get a chance to meet uh to put our uh input in. Um we we were all contacted individually and so we all put in our two cents and I kind of put it together in one document

and that was delivered to um the the council. But as chairperson Hines pointed out, it it's not an official planning and zoning document because we never voted on it. And here it is. Sorry. Let me see. We're on item two. Um, so we never officially voted on anything. So what was given to them were individual input. So I thought we would gather go over what was suggested. If there are any changes we can make them but then we'll vote on it as an official planning and zoning report to council. Now, the Texas state uh people did get our suggestion. They will create a new draft of the survey and ask the mayor for us to stay involved in that. So, we will probably look at a new version of that survey at some point in the future um to make some suggestions. But if no one has objections, we we can start to go over. And just a note on that, I mean, I did reach out to Dr. Edwards and ask if we could get get where they are and and maybe have that information. So I really don't have they're in the process now of doing some test questioning to some citizens. So they wanted to do that um and then bring it back. So the citizens of Woodbury of Woodbury Woodbury citizen. So they they they p I don't know how they got you know names. Um but

that's what they're doing. You do not have copies of the survey. Okay. I mean I did when I scribbled all over it but I didn't make Yeah. So I I would have made it ahead of time. I didn't know that the package wasn't there. Well, you know, we usually don't put the whole packet out, print it out for everybody unless we're just requesting. I mean, we'll we'll do the agenda. We assume everybody's got their laptops and and just sort of following along with what's in the packet. So, sorry. I don't Well, before you got here, what we talked about is that we're going to need a joint public hearing on the triangle. We recommended that it be converted to a park. Everybody refers to it as a park, but officially it ain't a park, right? So, we have to have a joint public hearing which they're going to have um a council meeting on the 9th next week and hopefully it'll be put on the agenda for the 2020. So, if you can plan, we're going to need four of us to show up. Um, April 24th. Yeah, April 23rd, Wednesday. I will be out of time that they shoot. Okay, we'll check with I'm assuming they'll do it at 5 5:30. Yeah. 5:30. I guess I could maybe do that as long. It won't take long because we have our session first. Okay. And we ask if there's anybody who wants to Yeah. say anything.

I don't imagine there's going to be a whole lot of opposition to that triangle being a part, but um it won't take long. I'm guessing our part of the joint will take 20 minutes and then we're free. Then we close our meeting. we're free to go and they can have their council meeting. But we do need because it's a special session under the uh rules uh we need four four people to attend not. So I could I have to work a conference in Houston but I don't have to be there till I'm going to Yeah. It doesn't start till Thursday morning but I was going to be there Wednesday night. Yeah, the bar opens early. Yeah, the welcome event, whatever. So, I would look like to be there. Well, we'll check if I had to stay until six. It's not like I said, we'll check if Karen Caroline and and and Pat can can attend. You're off the hook. Okay, that sounds good, though. I'll plan on being there until I'll send I'll send we we'll wait till the uh Yeah, we'll wait till the meeting on the 9th. And what I'll do is I'll either at the evening of the 9th or or the 10th I'll send out can you attend and we'll see if we can get a cor. Yeah. And then we'll be done with the triangle. So whose property is that? It's right away. Oh, it's it's it's okay. So it's just like it's city of Wood Creek turn into some sort of transportation deal. We're saying no. You can't you can't really do much of anything just right away. Yeah. So, I mean, um because of the roads being all

three roads being right there. So, um I've got the tax rules, they show it city of Wood Creek, but it like I said, it's not designated as a park. Okay. Although everybody calls it a park. What we're gonna do now is he's taking the copies. Yeah. We're gonna go over the what what we sent to the council because the it wasn't officially a planning voting document because we didn't vote on it and so we have to do that. Get that out of the way. And that's all I have for today. So when we get that the schedule got all mixed up. I mean, I I went to the initial presentation by Texas State and I was under the impression we had well into the summer, but then they suddenly said, "Nope, the term ends end of April, so we're we're done midappril. But then did they hand it back to the cities? Yeah. See, the thing is they're not going to do the survey, right? That's what I wanted. They're just working on the broken understand that they're supposed to be like mechanical tires or whatever like you get them in an

office. I can make coffee. I took my husband off for coffee making last night. The other thing I'll go over that point is This is not going to be a physical third ever unless you request. It's an electronic. You got to do it by computer. So those items where we were worried, well, what if they pick two? Yeah, they can't. So there's not going to be an option for someone to request a paper copy. Yes, sir. I thought I thought I read that. So they sent out a flyer says go to this website. You'll get I think you'll get Yeah. And you get an access number so that there's no duplication. Okay. Yeah. I think basically it's going to be turned over to someone else. Thank you. Yeah, we couldn't meet the semester requirements. That's okay. Okay. Anybody got one? Okay. The first two pages you have notes on survey. Okay, that's my recap of what we did. And then the rest of it is the actual survey document itself. So before or after our this comment this is the we make comments about this survey and then I marked up the survey. Okay, perfect. So let's get started. The first one is question six. If you'll go to question six on your

survey, it's on the first page at the bottom. You got it, Carolyn? Yes. Okay. Um although it asks which someone may check more than one, we should either take it. Again, that's irrelevant because they're going to make it so you can't choose. They seem to be comfortable that they'll play. Question seven, change there to the Just a matter of grammar. Yeah. Question uh nine. Change a at your residence to a at or in your house or yard or boat. Perhaps making these two choices. In other words, A at or in your house and then B in your yard. Yeah, I did that. I lost my landscaping multiple times which had a a real expense but it never came in my home because we have we have storm water damage but it's only in the it's only in the driveway in the yard. No, it used to take our Yeah. I I think they're two different things. It doesn't It doesn't imperil the house at all. Exactly. So, uh at your residence it's too broad. Yeah. Um, question 10, add either inside the residence or damage to the yard at the end of the existing question. Yeah, I don't know what you guys think about that, but I don't know. I mean, it's a big difference. You know, this flooded your house versus your landscaping. I'm fine with splitting them apart. But

I I I guess what we're saying is my residence has been flooded by storm water. But not in here. So then me and I got up to my back door but not in the house. Right. But right to the back door. That's why when um that's why one of you I don't even remember who it was felt like this was not specific enough. Well, I submitted it because we've had to replace, you know, granite and and landscaping on multiple occasions when our landscaping went down Brook Hollow and to a neighbor. So, well, I guess that's fine. There's a question down. I know both back and side, I guess. Excuse me. So, I don't know. I mean, I don't know what they're getting at. So, the issue is drainage. And [Music] um I I mean, I'm not sure what they're trying to pin down here, but a lot of us have had storm water damage, but very few have had it in the house. So, I think it was to prioritize where to work on the drainage. So if you step that doesn't work here though because we're not we don't have their addresses or anything as far as to where the where the drain I mean it's just like we just want to see if if you know 70% of the respondents said yeah I've got damage you know that's well and I think then we still need to ask them to separate it from in the structure it or in in the um landscaping one of the council members brought up which I thought was a good point um is

that many people bought their homes knowing there was going to be occasional flooding in in the yard that that to a great extent. It's it's not a surprise. For example, our our storm, our damage lessened when the road was paved, repaved, and those duplexes went in next door because he put in all that big rock, you know, in the front, which takes all the energy out of the water coming down Brook Meadow. And so as a result, the water didn't didn't have as much energy coming into our yard and therefore it's naturally it dissipates. It fans out. So whereas before virtually every heavy rain we would have a river going in the front of our house going by. Um we don't have it that much anymore. Well, I mean we when Brook collo was redone, our loss of landscaping decreased dramatically even though people said nothing would change but down the street our neighbor four houses down who didn't used to lose landscaping now he loses it. So I mean so the year is important because ours has actually gotten better but um but isn't that part of Brook? Wasn't that always? Didn't you know that that part of Brook Hollow was floods? So, the person that came in and did our initial landscaping said, "You've never seen this street when it runs like a river." And I said, "No, we've not because we were new." And she said, "Don't spend a fortune on this because

it's going to end up someplace else." And then we put in French drains in the back because it was coming up to our back door off the golf course because there was more of a slope coming down to us. So we had we put in French drains. But I mean, no, the realtor didn't tell us, hey, this road this this road runs like a river. No, but it never occurred to us. I mean, we bought that house almost 35 years ago before it was even Wood Creek. And um it never occurred to us to blame the city or go to the city and complain because of water coming across our property because that's the property we bought. And we you could tell when you bought the property, you can always tell that there was water going across. Well, the realtor we talked with, she I picked a bunch of stuff off the internet and she said, "You don't want to buy that. You'll be flooded in. You won't be able to get out because the road, you know, the access will be gone." But, um, I don't know. I'm not worried about it's just I don't know what they want out of this since you don't know where it is. Well, that brings up like question 12. I put the grading reference is vague. Severe damage to what? House, yard, driveway. A better choice of responses such as severe or major damage to house, had to replace landscaping. Something a more specific as to what what actually happened or what occurred because like you said, it's graded. You can I can write I can say, "Yeah, we've had major damage to our our but that was just the driveway." The other wasn't the house. option is just to say house if they don't care about the

landscaping then I I think see I would drop off completely if you put house then I would say we've never had well and that's okay they say that's part of the that's part of what they're after if there's been water in the house you know to to you know planners you know that's worse than okay so you lost some landscaping you know that but you have water in your house you know we That's that's a red flag. You know, we need to take a closer look at that if you But see, that's that's the point that's the point we were making. These questions don't pin that down. I mean, you're you're you're going to say, well, I you assume it's the house when you say has your residence, right? But and my garage was flooded because I had room sweeping out all that water cuz I'm at the end of D level. All that water is well to me I mean that's or part of the how I would just ask if that's what they want and to make it easier just say house or belong for for for one thing. Um this is going to be general information. We're doing major drainage right already. We're we're working on on drainage specific question and and conversations, you know, to sort of answer some of those questions. So, this is just sort of, you know, kind of a sub question to that, right? But all we're doing is criticizing or critiquing the survey. Um, whether or not you even want to approach the issue of of flooding, it's your choice. We have to wear Wellingtons to go out in the yard. There's a lot of water. Yeah. There may also, you know, I don't I don't remember all the questions from the from the first survey. Um because a lot of the question a lot of the questioning here is based on those

same questions to say, okay, there been improvement, you know, is it is it better or worse than it was when we asked, you know, six years ago what it is. So I don't have an answer for that. Okay. Well, I would just ask them what what do you want? What do they think they're asking? Well, they've gotten this this critique. So, they we'll see what the second iteration of the survey looks like. Question 20. Um, remove the word sidewalk. Um, I noticed u u council person Hines was doing that. She she brought that up specifically with the engineers. Yeah, she brought that up specifically. The connotation of sidewalk is concrete. Yes. Connotation is not only concrete. When you think of a sidewalk, you think of a suburb, you know, that that type of sidewalk. And we're talking about walkways, just ways that people can get around without having to walk on the road. Now, what's the difference? Um, I think of a more like a path, you know, like a nature path or something like that. Um, I don't know. There's all sorts of new technology on on things that are permeable. What I was surprised at was to hear the engineers talk. The engineers said that um that nothing that even some of the what did they say? um some of the some of the crushed rock or or or whatever is not permeable because you have to put in like a plastic stabiliz base to stabilize it so it doesn't wash away or whatever. So it's that doesn't serve a purpose.

Um just as an aside I also said on this particular question where it says add more bypass add we don't have any to add more to that should bike backs would be nice. I got two guys ride by every day. That question is kind of loaded. I mean traffic coming measures I don't know so how do you [Music] combine this is really I mean understanding but it's a trick because to me transportation and drainage are not co-equal. So the question I mean you can ask for more than one but um I don't know it doesn't well I think you can't do all these things. No. So you could do you could have perfect drainage but you probably have to go sidewalks and bike pass. That's if anybody wants to suggest changes, I can alter this document and put it in the official report. Let me know. Question 21 as above, but this question and question 20 seem redundant. We would be better served by adding a question regarding recent traffic coming measures with do you approve, disapprove, want more, want less.

Yeah. Why 20 and 21? Okay. Notice 21 says which is the most which of all those is the most important instead of one answer. You said that you can say that oh you know I can check all those boxes number 20. Yeah. But when you get to 21 which one is the most important for us to to concentrate on and that's the differentiation. Okay. Um, question 26. Uh, somehow we should mention costs associated with a community pool which may be the prohibiting factor here as it would most likely require increase in debt. Now, council member Hines took great exception to it because um in her in her words, it's their job to decide how it was paid for. Um but what I was I I even brought it up that I felt like it would create a false positive. Everybody wants school, right? If I say, "Do you want a community school?" Yeah, that's great. Okay. So you would vote for a increase in taxes or a bond going into debt. I mean a community pool by all accounts is going to cost millions and the maintenance on it is high. the insurance is very operating expenses are terrifying but and and that was a big part of the conversation in the company with her and and so the truth is asking that and putting it out it it may lead people to believe that the the city is trying to build a

community pool. It it may lead people to believe that higher taxes. It's I I I just think it's putting that question out there like that without if you had do you want a community pool than below that are you willing to pay more taxes for such a pool or or something to that effect. I think that they would all drop off and Yeah. because it's not free of charge. Yeah. The the the fact of the matter is I'm not this is just my opinion. My opinion there is no way Wood Creek can afford a community book. Absolutely not. And you need some sort of something in there that says okay so you would need you would need a multi-millionaire to give it to you at our at our current tax race. We can do none of the below. But, you know, if if we're willing to change, you know, the tax rate or get a bond or or whatever, you know, now what's important because this we don't have the money to do any of these things. Well, and and that's okay. But of all of these things, the one that believe in a splash pad, I mean, the operating expenses of a community pool is probably more than the operating expenses of anything else on this list by far. So, I mean, that's the difference. I mean, I'm would not be opposed to a bond that got people off the street that are trying to bike or walk because the maintenance is would have to be absorbed. There was somebody take care of it, but we're dealing with that with our HOA in um New Mexico. They closed the pool for a variety of reasons and people want it

reopened which had exited the cost but then you've got into infinity the cost of maintaining it and keeping it safe and so you know Wood Creek North used to have a pool. Do you remember that back in the day? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was great pool. It was uh where we used to have a pool here. Well, I thought it was at the club golf course. Yeah, tiny pool is what I heard a rumor of, but I don't know. This was a a pretty good size pool. It was right at the clubhouse there. Clubhouse. Wow. Okay. Yeah, it was nice. Um, but uh it didn't last. That was back in But we had tennis court the late 80s. But that's straight for me. Now, Aqua Texas has got all their stuff piled up at the end of Dittle where those tennis courts were. Cuz when I looked at that house, I went, "Oh, could learn to play tennis." Not anymore. They're coming right out of those condos. They got sports court here. They don't have tennis courts. Yeah. I mean, yeah, a sports court because I bet that No, I think that's what they're talking about. A sports court could be would be pickle ball. Uh could be basketball if it had I think a sports court court could be a multi-purpose with really not with minimal cost. I mean it's going to cost to pour that concrete and stuff like that. But I mean it doesn't require the ongoing maintenance and expense of a pool. I don't know about insurance what they want to do to our pool in in New Mexico. They want to fill it in and put a pickle ball court. Yeah. Yeah. All the rage. I know. Well, there's everybody's a pickler. Yeah. I'm not a pickler,

but it's good exercise and it could be multi-purpose like I said. So, if there's no objection, I'm going to leave the point in there about the cost. Yeah, that's important. So, my They heard that third. Yeah. Well, I'm just validating what you know in as much what we gave them. Yeah. So, and they can only answer one. So, if people understand the I I don't know. They can only pick one. So, I don't know that people would pick a pool. I mean, if you could pick a lot. I mean if if the world were perfect then you could get a good test to see how it's just reasonable this isn't the that's true that's a very good this way look at okay good way okay um the last one um question 30 does the state differentiate above and below ground isn't Is that true that the state doesn't differentiate? Yeah, they picked up on that. It's actually in the building code. Um they're they don't differentiate. So, it's that that question is almost certainly just going to be changed to swimming pools, right? Okay. In other words, you can't vote for above ground and not below ground vice versa. Question 32. A food truck or inhome venture may not be a development but a new enterprise. Um that's what we were suggesting adding more enterprise in

there. So can I get stupid but how much land is available in Wood Creek? I wonder that as well. It's not zero, but it's there. There are two commercial lots across the street in front of Cork. Um there's there's land scattered around that could be reszoned. Um the golf course could come and say, "Yeah, we're not this isn't used for golf or anything, you know." So, no, they own a lot of land. They don't they don't between them and campa who could also you know say oh we're not using this area we can yeah yeah do something there so it's very it's very limited okay because some of these feel so hypothetical um I don't but there's also the ETJ that could be but but it's it says in Wood Creek it doesn't say or the surrounding area and I think if you survey most of the community they would know what the HA was. I mean yeah I don't I don't think voting for a micro brewery or anything like that. Well, like big box retail, I guess there's the golf course might enough, but I don't even know why. I I guess I guess these are almost exactly the same questions as the first as the first to be in that survey either. You'll remember the answer to that survey. Yeah. Restaurant or none of the Yeah. Yeah. Everybody looks good restaurant. Everybody wants a coffee shop. Well, Well, um, that's question 33. Somehow we should differentiate between food truck courts and a seasonal ice cream truck.

Again, an enterprise, not a development. Yeah. I mean, we're not going to have a food truck court in Wood Creek. I don't think I don't know where it'd be. The problem with the food truck courts is they have to be where people travel back and forth or go by. And I think the only land we would have would probably be out of the way where they wouldn't want to put it. I don't know. But um food trucks can go in like what about over by the golf course? Um don't they have a lot of parking? Well, they have essentially a food truck if they go over there and get food. Yeah, they do have a they do have a a food aisle and I don't know what happens to that when they open the events or the new way. Um they have a food truck and they and they have that they have that land um that on like where we do Spectacular, you know, that's a pretty big chunk of land and then across the street on that parking lot, that's pretty big chunk of land, but that's private property. city doesn't have any control over if they want to open a food court there. You know, they can come to the city and try to get permitted for it. But what about but that's their call with liquor store and cigar they put they put a food truck there. That would make sense. Yeah. One of them. Yeah. So, and that's not out of the question, but that's not that's not a court that like like we're going to bring in a food truck. We're going to bring in a food truck Friday, you know, for the for the Arbor Day. Yeah. And and they Yeah. And you could do a deal where you could if you like it may it's not a food truck court, but you were talking about seasonal um enterprises. Well, you could have a enterprise where you said, "Okay, on Friday evenings there's going to be,

you know, schoolyard dogs is going to be up in the triangle." Yeah. It would be nice if the golf course has all that land, you know, you have a a what would you call it where you would have like coffee shop, food truck, a gathering for people and maybe an event there. I mean the emergency that's part of their plans is that is okay. So that's a great plan because that's a place for people to gather, right? when you have limited space because you're right, food trucks, they need foot put foot put foot traffic really they do to stay in business in my opinion just like FM pizza right now he's he's he needs well he needs brick and mortar he is so popular he's we need brick and mortar because we just can't keep up in this food truck is that guy over by treasures on Yes and it is So good. I've been there. It's good. Yeah. So, is the underpinning of this question looking at the tax base expanding the tax base? I'm I'm a little confused. I think the problem is these are generic surveys in effect and because the things we think what might be effective are not things that are going to bring tax money in like the ice cream truck or the seasonal things or the food truck coming once a week. Yeah, those are not those are not tax based things. Those are those are like nice to have. Well, and they're things that the community would probably enjoy. But but all the one of the I mean to that point Karen you know like a lot of this questioning the first time and now again is okay well if we could develop the ETJ and bring in a lot of retail is that is that something you'd like to see and the first time around they said no

is not correct you know so the second time around has the has the has it changed has the moods changed and they'd like to see you know more sales tax revenue coming in from you know annex some area and the ETJ that's not that easy to do no you know and it's getting harder and in fact the legislature is working to eliminate the concept of ETJ so I guess the question really then is is the community interested in doing things that would increase sales tax revenue that's that's the root of it I think right and I don't know that that people would necessarily understand that that's what the question is. And you don't want to leave the question either. Well, yeah, you do because no, you don't want to no if you if you say, "Hey, these things are going to bring in more tax revenue and these things aren't." You know, that's sort of that's sort of leading it. But if people So the question to me really is does the city need we need to ask people if they're willing to pay more taxes or they want more revenue without paying more taxes and what are they willing to give up and what are they willing to risk to get more revenue if that's what they want. And see what this does, what the survey does is give us broad, you know, broad overview of what, you know, sort of the general mood is. And so we get those numbers in and say, "Wow, this is interesting. People have really they they sort of centered on this. I mean, so then we go back and ask, you know, in clarifying surveys, okay, so so you said you wanted a community pool. Okay. So, you know, the city doesn't have the money to do that, you know, but you know, if we passed the bond, we might be able to. that would that would raise your you know that would raise the taxes on your home you know 4 cents per 100 or something. You know we could go back and and clarify and say okay give some

better answers but but you know this general survey is trying to give us you know clues to what our comprehensive plan you know becomes. I mean the the the I mean I think the regeneration of the comprehensive plan says if everybody says no we totally want sports course you know then we say okay well you said you totally want sports course so the comprehensive plan comes together and says okay so the community says they'd like sports course so so you know that becomes one of the one of the goals of the comprehensive plan whether it can be accomplished or not is you know anybody's guess but I think there's a certain level we We have to understand we're like that poor child, okay? It's our big brother that we bring in is the only way we could do things like community pool and that's Wimberly. If if we did something with Wimberly then with Wimberly in effect carrying the bulk of it then we could have a joint a community pool that we could that is exactly what we've been talking about right so I would argue that you can create a false positive get 100% support for a community pool uh knowing that we really can't do it in Wood Creek that it would have to be done with uh with like I said Wimberly but they would take that information go and we've already been talking to the school districts the county and the city of Wimberly even white you know the sports group said you know everybody wants one throughout all of Wimberly wants one wants one we all the the school district school have a good swim team yeah yeah so everybody's interested in doing it just how are we going to do it So if if if if everybody sort of because Wimberly is working on their comp plan as well. So they're

going to be asking the same kind of questions. So we bring all that information. We go to the county and say look, you know, help us out here, you know, and so the counties just got a lot more a lot more poll. I have a suggestion. all these developments that are being approved in the area, make them contribute, saying, "Since you're killing our springs, why don't you contribute to a community pool so we can at least have some water to and see that's completely out of our jurisdiction." So, we don't have any nobody no developer coming to us. I understand. Well, I definitely support though having things that would raise, you know, not necessarily be considered commercial development, but community things like your shave ice or your ice cream truck or your temporary food truck coming in just to see if that is important to people. because if they like all of that, um, that kind of gives clues to the city on activities or or to recruit, you know, an ice cream truck or a shave of ice to come for the season. So, it just helps give us direction. I think that'd be great. Next question was 39. Uh, we noted that the question never mentions chickens. than chickens. There are other hens other than No, actually the reason that this is says hens because chickens include roosters. Yeah. And we there's no way on God we're going to have roosters no matter what. Even even the legislature, which the bill is going through Congress through legislature now, um would allow for six chickens,

six rabbits. Um yes. Um, but you can't tell the residents they can't have them, but you can set restrictions on where they could be. So, you could say, but you can't you can't legislate that so that it eliminates the option. So, you can't say, well, you can't you can have chickens, but they have to be a,000 ft from your next door neighbor. You know, you can't do that. It's impossible. So, so you have to have reasonable regulations on how it's done. So that's what's going and it whether it passes, who knows? But that's what's that's what that's what's before the legislature right now and it's making progress actually. So we may be setting people up then with this question as well because if they don't follow the legislature 100% of people say no to so sad. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah. There's a it seems like in um all the comments that are made online, a lot of them are due to the fact that people don't understand that the city can't say no to a lot of things. They don't understand how little control our city has over the way things operate. Um okay question 40 please make it plain that we are referring to current staff officers not previous administration that's simply the fact that there was a lot of turmoil in uh in and I had really asked that it be specific that and we discussed this that it be specific that it not identify specific employees that Yeah, it's it's general. Um like for instance, we don't have a

code administrator. So, you know, that very disappointing. Yeah. So, but but Jim is Jim served as code administrator and and city administrator, you know, so so we're sending out all the letters that they used to send out as code administrator that are still going out, but they're coming from the city administrator. So a separate position of well I guess I guess my point being that the city council members are not identified individually and they're the ones mayor and city are accountable for the quality of the staff's performance. So you had suggested that the staff be rolled up as just city staff. I what what I my notes to to Dr. Edwards was actually have it. City administrator, city secretary, current city administrator, current city secretary, you know, front office, city council member, you know. So, I don't know. I don't know how much that got through, but I don't think that I think that's terrible. I they the city the residents are not responsible for the evaluations of individual employees. This is but but again customer service. This is how this is the customer service that they provide. Yeah. So, either the city provide the staff provides good customer service or not. But you I would roll up the staff because they're well it actually does because a city administrator and other city staff. Okay. The city administrator stands alone. He is this CEO, right? So, so and he is the one that people most I mean if it's a like a permitting issue or if it's you know some question it's it's it's the city administrator they deal with if it's just you know signing up for garbage pickup or you know heavy trash pickup you know that could be happy could be car they don't really

know. So why are you doing a survey asking what people think of the mayor or council members that's what the voting is for. Well, I mean, we'd like to we like to hear between elections. So, but no single council member can be identified as being very satisfactory to deal with or very unsatisfactory to deal with. And yet you have one employee who can be identified as being very and the mayor. Well, and the mayor. But that makes sense to me. That's the person accountable. The city ad the city administrator and the mayor are basically here. Who hires who evaluates the city? The city council. Okay. The entire city council. Okay. Does the evaluation of the city administrator? So why are you soliciting this data? Are you going to use it for the evaluation? No. We just want if if we're I mean yeah when you come into play in evaluations. Yeah. Uh listen um you time to talk about your merit increase or whatever. uh the citizens don't particularly care for you according to the compliance survey. The anonymous citizens who have not specified what it is that they like or don't like said they don't like you. They don't even know who you are. I mean, how many I this is No, I hope this is this is not good personel management. Well, it's not I don't I don't think it's designed for personnel management. I think it's designed to see how city administration council and staff react to the city. What what what have you I mean you know has problems it's like I don't know. Do you want to add a note on that? I did at one point. I must not have I No, I I think I CCD you on my

heart attack that I already sent to the mayor. Um, that's okay. I mean, it is what it is. Okay. Uh, question 45. We suggest that they add an option for not to respond. Hi. So, if people don't respond, does are people does it come back and tell you you didn't answer a question? Well, it it changes the numbers obviously, you know. It's like we're not I mean we're trying to get some just general demographic information, you know, see how it corresponds and see if it's see how much it's changed from before because I mean the general general idea is the city's getting younger, right? But you know the census only comes out every 10 years, okay? You know, so so it it how does this compare with the answers from the last? So if the if the average age has dropped that says okay well I guess we're right in our assumption that the city's getting older. If it's gone up it's like okay well that's interesting. So it's you know all these questions are just like okay to give us and PNC you know as we move forward with the with the rewrite of the comprehensive plan just some additional information. you're when you do the comprehensive plan, it's basically a revamping of the old ones. So it's like, okay, so you want to be able to say, well, you know, in the first comprehensive plan, we saw this in the latest surveys, we saw this. So, you know, based on that, we think the city should take action in this way, you know. So, so they're kind of general questions by design.

But they don't have to answer. So I don't think it makes any difference. Well, I'm going to still leave the suggested answer. Question 47. Change other to prefer not to answer. I mean, I don't know if we want to get mixed up in all that discussion, but what is your gender, man, woman, or prefer not to answer? That's just my opinion. Yeah, that one. I don't I don't know, you know, how they're going to come back with it. But yeah, I mean, other really is okay. Other what, you know, so without being able to to comment on what other is is I think you're right. I think probably better to say and even if you did comment, I'm not sure how that would have any bearing on. Yeah. So we come back with the demographics that says we're you know 54% women you know 7% men and zero half half of 1% other. So do we what is the intention a question for these kids? Um, one of the things that like we've been talking about with the never program is if we know that if we know that there's someone in your block that you're that you're looking out for that needs, you know, a little extra attention and an emergency, you want to know about it. You know, it's kind of hard to hard to get. We know that there are, you know, a large number of citizens in in the city that, you know, do have, you know, chronic conditions. You know, it's like this city has to be ADA compliant anyway. Well, that's what I that's why I'm concerned. So, I'm not sure whether there's zero people, but we still have to be ADA. Exactly. So, I I just didn't I'm not sure that I can

really answer it, Karen. I So, I mean, I don't Yeah, I mean something has to come out of like I don't know what it is. So I mean you can infer by the age question that there's going to be people that are going to need more assistance than not and and then we still won't know who they are. No, that's my point. Yeah. Is it's like okay yeah there's people out there and now we got to go find them, you know. So I don't know. So that is that is one of the one of the basic questions within the questionnaire for the neighbor to neighbor program. Well, and that makes sense. That's a it may be that it may be that when she comes back with the with the okay, here's here's what we're coming up with the questions, you know, that you say, you know what, 47 just needs to go on 46 just needs to go. It's not what's it going to tell us? And so and that's that's that's fine to do. Yeah, I think it is. Okay, the last point is question 52. Um, they say yes, I am interested in being involved and my contact information is and it has a blank. We said this writes anonymity as to questionnaire. They should merely be told how to send in their information separately from this questionnaire. I mean you want this questionnaire to remain anonymous. I would I thought that would be right. So by doing that it it it breaks it. So we suggest the change or you don't really even need a question. You just need a comment that says although if you get like 42 yeses and you get three emails

Okay. Anybody have any other suggestions or comments on the survey? Okay. If not, at 5:58 I take us out of the workshop. We move to number three, possible action involving commission input on Wood Creek Community Survey. I make a motion that we put this in a the items we discussed today, suggestions be put in a report um that I'm happy to write and submit to council. Second. Sure. Yes. Well, any questions? any about that it I'll just simply write it up as we have it. Okay. All in favor? Okay. Anyone have any announcements? Any suggestions going forward? I will once I hear from uh the council meeting on the 9th, I will send out a notice to you all asking if you uh will be able to attend the public hearing and uh then we'll go from there. Nothing else at 6:00 this meeting. So if you get four then we will That's