Town Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening.

Welcome everyone to the town council meeting for September 8th, 2026 at 630. We're in the Harvey Garing Room. This meeting is available on Zoom. The meeting ID is 82066827964. Passcode is 509355 and the phone number is 309205335. Roll call, please. How's the cost again? Yeah. How's the taxidermy?

Council Muller? Here. Council Dynes? Present. Council Romano? Present. Council Reardon?

Here.

Council Fain?

Here.

Vice President Swope? Here. President Letary?

Here. Thank you. The forum meeting is in session. Please stand for the pledge made by Council Costa.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Minutes have been circulated for the August 18th meeting. Is there a motion to approve? Motion by Councilor Lime. Second by Councilor Dimes. Any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Minutes are approved. Public hearings tonight, we have a handful. We have five of them. I will open the first public hearing for the Town Council appropriates the sum of $1.5 million in paid cost of water main replacement.

I'll ask

Director Calla to just bring us up to date on this project.

So 1.5 million is the supplemental funding for the project that was voted on in the last meeting. Project cost is $3 million. We had voted 1.5 million from the NWRA loan program. This general bond will make up the other 1.5 million needed for the project. A section of Water Main goes between McGee's Corner and Metcalf Square. We have a long history of water main breaks, poor condition pipe, well-needed project.

And just for clarification, so we did approve 1.5 from WRA. This will be a general obligation for the town for this project, the town's portion. And this will be under the water. It will increase the water rates approximately, increase the bill approximately 1%, a little less than 1%, about 30 cents. And this will probably not hit until first or second quarter of fiscal 2028. So probably January or February of 2020. Councilor Dimes, you had a finance meeting. Can you tell us their recommendations?

Yes. Thank you, Town Council President. The Finance Committee met this evening at 6 p.m. in the Harvey Hearing Room. We are coming back to Council with a positive recommendation for the water main improvements, Winthrop Street, borrowing $1.5 million from the general obligation bond. Motion ID is TCM27-002.

spring of next year, and it will be a one-construction-season project. No sense in starting it now with a director with winter coming upon us. Anybody from the public wish to be heard on this as a proponent or as a non-proponent? Anyone else from the council? Councilor Kosky.

Thank you, Town Council President. Do any of these monies have any ties to the M-Debris? No, not as much as the last one.

This is a general obligation bond you are... take this item out of order. Second by Councilor Dimes. I repeat the motion. There's a motion that town council adopt the following rule that the town appropriates a sum of $1,500,000 to pay costs of water main replacement at Winthrop Street, including costs incidental and related thereto. It should raise its appropriation by authorizing the treasurer with the approval of the town manager to issue bonds or serial as amended or any other enabling authority and that town manager is authorized to take any action relatively to carry out, it's convenient to carry out this project. There's a motion on the floor. I cannot commit with positive recommendation. Any further discussion on this motion? Seeing none, I'll ask for a roll call vote, please.

Council Costigan.

Yes.

Council Tassinari. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Circuit intersects Court Road two places. This would be the northernmost, I believe. And this is the section closest to Johnson Ave. So the last about 200 feet of Court Road would remain the two-way until it hit from Circuit to Johnson Ave. The remaining portion coming down the hill to Pleasant Street would change to a one-way. Traffic flow would go down. Parking would remain on the same side of the street as it is now. If this was to pass, Director Callow would order signs tomorrow. They would probably be up and take place within the next couple of weeks. There would be one-way signs. There would be no left-turn signs coming into court doors from a couple of the intersecting streets. Again, it won't affect parking. It will stay where it is currently. So I will open this public hearing and hear from Director Calla first on his thoughts on this.

I'm just one member of TSAC. So this wasn't proposed by me. I want to make that clear. We heard it in TSAC. Again, it's a committee that looks at public safety. And our policy is travel lanes, a 10-foot travel lane is required. So for a two-way road with parking, 20 feet of travel lane and eight feet of parking stall. It's 28 feet. Court road average is 22 feet, you know, in the area that we're talking. A little less in some areas and slightly lower in other areas. So our decision, our recommendation was based strictly on our policy and our public safety, parking and two cars come upon each other. You can't pass without either straddling the sidewalk or back.

Thank you. And this is something that's been discussed for a long period of time. We've had times of the year during Halloween and such that we've put this in place for safety reasons. TSAC, which is the Traffic Safety Advisory Committee, did come out with a unanimous decision to back this. I will ask Chief Calandra, who we got their opinion, which we value greatly, if you have reflections or thoughts on this.

gave my opinion i support it on a daily basis a regular basis no matter what end of court road we're gonna come head to head with the car that car's going up with a curve going to a driveway hopefully lucky enough going to a market spot climbing means we have five what people don't see is the ups truck The Amazon truck, the oil delivery truck in the winter. Any Friday, when anyone has to get from the state, sends on a court road, you get trapped. I support the one way for that reason.

Thank you.

Anybody from the public wish to be heard as in favor of this? Yeah, I'm in favor.

Just please state your name and precinct. Charles J. from O'Leary III. Precinct 2, the Winthrop Riviera. I'd like to totally agree with the Chief and Steve, but they're missing one thing, and that is not only are they a trucks and this and that. But how many times cars have bounced off our cars to get by? Because that's really, you know, what I see is a big problem also. They don't just go up on the sidewalk. They just don't, they hit our cars, mirrors, you know, claims for the insurance. And it's been terrible down in Court Road. And there's a lot of kids on Court Road now. And I think this would be a great idea. So I'm certainly in favor. Thank you.

Yes, I can't see you.

Hi, my name is Karen Choffee. I live with my husband, Greg Choffee. We live at 91 Corp. So we've been there 19 years, and I'm in agreement. I just have a couple of things. One is, where does the one-way begin? Will it begin off of Pleasant Street, or will it begin at the Circle?

begin up top and come down towards Pleasant Street. One of the reasons for that it would maintain parking on the same side of the street.

The other issue is the speed. I agree. They come down, they come flying down. And the problem is it's not even a straight road. It bends and bends and bends and they can't see. So if that's a one way, they may say, well, I don't have to worry about anybody hitting me head on because, you know, I'm just going to keep going. And when I leave in the mornings, I go to lock my door. How many? I can't even tell you how many times. There's almost a head-on collision right in front of my house. It's not even the houses and the cars. It's the kids. You know how many people walk down the street with dogs and kids in carriages, and they're looking at them. They want to look at the water. And all day long, I have my little window. I'm cooking. I see them out there. It would be a tragedy. I'm telling you, a tragedy for anybody to witness that on the street. So... I'm for it. I just, I'm concerned about the speed. The speed is really the factor. If they were going slow, we wouldn't have this problem. They would be going slow and taking their time and, you know, not having these close calls. So, and the other issue, and we talked about, I talked about, my name, is about maybe having a speed bump. Maybe not a permanent one there because of the plows, but you put a temporary one there. Even a couple of them, one at the top, one at the bottom. And then just remove them before, it's like, I come out and remove them. We'll help you. So,

Thanks for being here.

Anyone else wish to be heard? Yes. My name is .

I live in 43 Court Road. I'm far and all the way. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Michael. Mike Bailey in 102 Court Road. I've been here over 30 years. My car got hit four times in front of my house. I have a small pickup truck. It's not that wide. It got hit four times. I back all my family's cars into the driveway so I can pull up. It's hard to see. It's like a blind car coming down the street. And this way, they only have to look one way instead of two ways. Now, I agree. Being one way makes life a lot easier.

Thank you. Yes, sir. I'm Arthur Buckman on Precinct 2. I don't disagree with it. everybody's saying. But once people realize it's the one way, they're going to fly. And I've heard this story from other people that we can't put a speed bump because the plows can't go over it. Well, they do it in every other community. So halfway down the street where Charlie Famulari used to live, right at the bottom of the hill, maybe a little further, you put a speed bump. Once people know there's a speed bump, they're going to slow down. But that would be my only contention with the whole thing. Because I'm telling you, once... Everybody realizes it's a one-way, they're going to fly, and there's a lot of kids on that street, just like my neighbor said. And they're on these bikes and everything else. Somebody's going to get killed. That's my only thing. But I agree with the one-way in the sense of a car coming at you, it's going to be easier to maneuver up and down the street. But other than that, I mean, if we can work out something with a speed bump, whether it's from April to October, and then we lift them up, or whether we do an elongated speed bump like they do in Revere, Chelsea, every other community. I don't know why we can't do it in our community. I have no idea. But that would be my only contention. So I'd like you to take it under advisement and see what you can come up with.

And we have had discussions about that, about either movable objects or something, some sort of impediment. Yeah, anything.

I mean, once people know it's there, Then you got to slow down. I mean, I go in Revere. I go by the stadium. I know there's two speed bumps. I slow down because you're going to bottom your car out. And it's a long speed bump. And I guarantee you, they don't lift those up in the wintertime. The plows can go over them gradually. Plows aren't doing 50 miles an hour. So they should be able to go over a speed bump. It's not asking much. You may save a kid's life.

Thank you.

All right. Thank you.

Yes. Hi, I'm June Cristiano. I live at 126 Court Road. I'm actually, I work for, I'm a vendor for Massport, and I work for a snow removal company. At Massport, they do have problems where the snow plows do have to lift up, whether it be over the manhole covers and stuff. And it's possible so we could have a speed bump. And the plows, if they know where they are, the speed bumps, they could lift them up. It's not a big deal because they're going that slow. Honestly, it's something we could consider because it does work.

I'm Greg Chalkley, also on Court Road. We're talking about speed bumps. I think we all agree. I get it. I have 100% agreement, too. How will we know when and if that's going to happen? We're talking about them, but what's the process of actually getting them in there? Because my understanding is this is just for a one-way street. So we have to have another meeting for a speed bump, another proposal. How does that work? You can just let us know. Because I don't know. I apologize for my ignorance.

That's okay. We haven't had any, so it's fine. That would help. I don't think so. Okay.

Will we be informed as we hear of this? Okay.

Yep.

Thank you. Yes. Yeah, Bob Famoletti, 64 Court Road. I agree with everything everyone said, especially the speed bumps, because people fly down the street now as it is. But I live right two doors in from the circle going up the road. And there's three stop signs there. I can sit there all day, and I can count 35 cars go through that intersection, and I can count on one hand how many stop at the stop sign. I used to have a dog. I almost got hit twice crossing the street across Loring Road. People just come flying down, and it's not strangers. It's the neighbors. It's the people that live in the area. They just come down, blow through the sign, make the turn, and whatever. So I'm not pointing the fingers at any one police department or anything, but I think that we're going to do all this other to create safety on Court Road, that we ought to go another step further and have maybe some police presence there. There were some police there once, and I went up to them and I said, oh, wow, I'm glad you're here. How many tickets did you give out today? Oh, I didn't give any out today because they're all residents. And I'm like, Well, who do you think comes down the street? Residents. And they're abusing it. So, again, just to add to what everyone else has said for safety and all that, you know, stop signs would be some more surveillance on that. I mean, you go in the maze area, there's probably more stop signs in the maze area than any other area in town. And I walk that way a lot. And again, stop signs, they're non-existent, just like stoplights now are non-existent, basically. So I'd like to recommend that, too.

And we are asking Chief Goodwin to have more of a presence down in that area, especially during the implementation. Mr. Dowd.

Jack Dowd, Precinct 4. I'm not sure about the conditions in the snowstorm for parking on Court Road. If you only put the speed bump on the driving side of corridor, not put it on the parking side, then the plows could come down the street. If it works that way. I'm not so sure if there's parking during snowstorms on corridor.

No parking.

So if you only put it on the driving side and not the parking side, then the plow can come down and clean the street. And it'll be easy to maneuver the snow with other speed bumps. Thank you.

Tom, did you have your hand up?

Yeah.

I'm Darren, tree warden.

Along Court Road, many big, old, beautiful trees have been hit by cars, and they die. That's another part.

Thank you. You want from the council?

Yes. Thank you, Council President. Yeah, Court Road means a lot to me. I mean, my best friend grew up there and second home to me since like first grade, right? And no-brainer, it should be a one-way. But also, you guys are all bringing up the speed, right? I remember being a little kid, being afraid to cross the street with my friends all along Court Road because of those line detours and these cars speeding down. You know, that's what you guys brought up a good point. Cause stop that speed somehow. Um, and also, you know, as I got older, I drive down court road and worry about the one way, obviously someone coming against speeding, like no brainer one way, but the speed is definitely an issue. And I think we should, uh, take that in consideration as well. Thank you.

Thank you. Town council president. Thank you for TSAC for their work and consideration with a positive recommendation. I strongly support the recommendation of positive that came back from TSAC to make Court Road one way from the southwest corner of Court Road and Circuit Road to Pleasant Street. This change will improve safety for pedestrians and cyclists, reduce cut-through traffic where court and circuit intersect twice, and simplify vehicle traffic flow for residents and emergency vehicles. I ask that the town ensure clear signage and notification to residents in advance of this change, and to take the speed bump installation into consideration, and also take into consideration an alerted reader board to warn and advance warning to residents and out-of-towners of the change in traffic flow. I also urge my colleagues to support this measured safety-focused improvement. Thank you very much for your consideration. Thank you. Councilor Maher.

Yes, I want to add on to that. I also thank the residents for showing up today. It's great to have a great crowd. And I actually get to hear from the residents that this will affect the most. So I'm definitely in favor of this motion. Thank you all for your participation.

Thank you.

will use more crossbreeds, whether it be sojourn or something, or whatever weight it's gonna be. So we are aware of that.

Yeah, I do just want to emphasize with all the people speaking here who are living on Court Road, and I do believe that speed bumps and speed on that roadway would be a big concern. God forbid somebody after we pass this possibly is, God forbid, struck by a vehicle. I think we should really look into different technologies. Thank you.

Yes. The one thing I think is beneficial about this is hopefully it's eye-opening to other streets in town that have the same issue. We do have many streets that we have the two-way that we speak of. Trucks coming down one way, car coming down another way, and all of a sudden everybody's hopping on curbs, going to driveways. This could be eye-opening for the rest of the town. Amazon truck sitting in the road. It delays their response time. So I think this is truly beneficial, that street right now, but it could be very beneficial for other streets in the town, too, to start looking at this. Thank you, T-Sec.

I just wanted to ask a question regarding parking situation on Court Road because a lot of the time you may not see it, but we do. The trucks that come into the community are parking on the sidewalks where all the kids are playing. I think that's just as dangerous as having the road be two ways. It really does create an issue. I have seven grandchildren and they all live around me. So I see them going out to play and there's a truck parked here. There's cars all across the street. It's okay if it's on one side, but I don't see how we can allow the trucks to be parking on the other side where they shouldn't be. You know, if we're going to have it a one-way, somebody's going to get hit because they're not going to see somebody stepping out from behind a car or a truck that pulls up for deliveries or, you know, landscaping, whatever the case may be. It's been a problem for a very, very long time. I don't know what we can do, but that's something to consider when we're talking about one-way because they'll just come up and pop right wherever they want on the sidewalks. And that's dangerous for the kids. Not just my kids, but anybody's child. You know, how are they going to get their bike? Well, they're going to go around that. And what if a car coming down doesn't see them? Right? So just a suggestion to take into consideration. Thank you.

going to read a motion that the town council approved to set recommendation court road becoming one way from the southwest corner of the intersection of court road and circuit near 265 court road down to pleasant street this distinction is important because court and circuit intersect twice the section of court road between circuit and sojourn where Court Road becomes Johnson Ave will remain two-way at this time so that cars coming out of the southern end of circuit aren't forced to go back into the maze. Is a motion? Seconded by Councilor Romano. And comes out of committee with boss's recommendation. Any further discussion on this? Again, just to go over implementation of this, there will be signs ordered tomorrow. It will probably take a couple of weeks. And it will go into effect. There will be ample notice out there for people, for residents, for commuters, and any signage that we can do at the beginning. We will have police presence, which I promise for that, for not only Court Road, but surrounding streets that might get an influx of traffic as it changes directions. All right, I'll ask for a roll call, please.

Council Costigan.

Yes.

Council Tassinari. Council Malab. Yes. Council Dimes. Yes. Council Romano. Yes. Council Reardon. Yes. Council Fenn. Yes. Vice President Spoke. Yes. President Viteri.

Yes. Motion passed. You're more than welcome to stay during the whole meeting. Thank you, everybody.

Thank you. Thank you, sir.

Amendment 17.52.030, use of variance. Elimination of use of variance. Councillor Millar has come out of your committee. Would you wish to talk on this?

We did discuss it and we did request that it would go to determinations on it. So the intent of this was just to eliminate some of the wording in the ordinance that ties into use of the properties. And I know it came back with, again, a positive recommendation from us to move it forward to the Planning Board.

I don't know if the Council of Dimes or And Assistant Tom Andrews, if they would like to speak as well. Councilor Cipollone.

Mr. President, thank you, members of the council. There's a process for amending a zoning ordinance. Now, anything that begins with a 17 is part of the width of zoning ordinance or zoning bylaw. We are subject to the provisions of General Laws Chapter 40A, Section 5, with regard to amending or enacting a zoning bylaw. Since this is taking one word out of the section that is cited, then that would be an amendment to that section, 17.20, whatever the section is. that was cited, 17.52030, what you would be doing is removing the two words, use, war. And that's an amendment. So the way that Section 5 of Chapter 40A mandates that this be done is that a public hearing has to be held on the amendment, both by the council and the planning board. It can happen either together or separately. Planning board then has the amount of time set out in the ordinance to make a recommendation to the council. If a recommendation is not forthcoming, the council can take it up on its own and vote it up or down. So the next step would be a public hearing, either together with the planning board or separately. I have no opinion on whether or not it's separate.

I understand this is a public hearing. This is our public hearing. The planning board has had their public hearing.

Okay. They have had their public hearing. Yes. Have they made a... Yes. Okay. So you would have to wait for their recommendation, but if it hasn't been forthcoming in 60 days, you can do it yourself.

Right. We have had that. Okay.

So... So that if the council is prepared to vote on it this evening, so long as the timelines in the order of Section 5 have been complied with, then it is ripe for a vote this evening.

Thank you. And if you could just explain, and I am in favor of this, and thank you for all your help with this as well, but my understanding is that recently the state has changed. Yes. Can you just explain that and how it would affect this one way or the other?

So the only effect that the state statutory amendment would have is that it would allow for the consideration of a use variance in a residential zone for residential use. The way that 17.52.030 is worded currently says the Board of Appeals may authorize a variance from the terms of this title for a particular parcel of land or an existing building. That would be different because this current ordinance allows for a use variance in any zone. If you're doing away with that, then that's fine. What then would happen anyway, whether you did or didn't, is that the state statute would allow a landowner in a residential district to apply to vary the use, but only for a residential use. An example of that, our RARB zones allow for one family and two family homes. A scenario where someone may want to vary the use of that is to make that two family home a three family home. If it was going to be for residential use, then the Board of Appeals would have to entertain it. They have to issue it, but would have to entertain it, so long as it's for residential use. Thank you. So you'd be actually condensing it down about 80%. Thank you.

I want to thank Assistant Tom Yancey and Cheryl McCormick for coming here tonight. Do you have anything to add? I think Attorney Cipolletta covered everything. Thank you so much.

Counselor Romano. Can I just quickly ask a question? Thank you again for being here tonight. So from what I'm hearing is true. If we get rid of this wording, we can leave our ordinances as is, and then the state statute would still apply. So we wouldn't have to add the specific language of the state statute in?

No, you're right. You wouldn't. You would have to, if I'm reading this correctly, if the consensus is to do away with broadly with use variances, only thing you would have to do is to remove two words, use for, from the first sentence, and you leave the rest of the ordinance in place. Then the state statute would take precedence. You could also adopt a mirror image town bylaw or ordinance because they're going to require us to do it anyway. and tailor it to reflect the language of the state statute. And it still stays as restrictive as the legislature had intended to be, only in RA or RB, and only for residential use.

Let's finish on one more thing. Thank you, Council President. So we don't actually have to add that mirror language. It's automatically going to apply anyway now that this law is passed. OK, thank you.

And just before I get to President Swope, including with the average variance in effect?

I think it's about 13. I mean, it's not 20.

Thank you. Vice President Sorley?

Thank you, President. If we can establish the fact that changing a variance in residential property is not in the best interest of public health, safety or welfare, can we decline to accept it?

No, but the Board of Appeals can make that finding. Because if you're going to use that use variance in an RMA zone, it still has that variance, that use variance has to be issued by and only the Board of Appeals.

So what you're saying is, yes, we have to hear it. The Board of Appeals does not have to approve it.

And on what grounds could they not approve it?

Well, the new legislation has changed the requirements that need to be met. to be eligible for variance. And the major one used to be you had to show a hardship, either financial. It has to be tied to lot size, topography, surface, whatever. It has to do with the land or an extreme financial hardship. Now what the legislature has done is it's changed that to require any Board of Appeals or any variance granting authority to consider the difficulty, whether it's materially or substantially difficult to make a bill. Also baked into the formula by the legislature, because this comes out of the Affordable Homes Act. It was buried somewhere in the budget bill. The last three amendments have just come in sort of staccato form. One of the things that is key is that a board considering the grant of a variance has to consider whether or not it promotes an increase in housing stock. Does it conform with the purpose and intent of the Affordable Homes Act? and with 3A. So that's something that didn't exist before July 9. But July 9 going forward is one of the considerations. But findings have to be made on each one of these elements by the Board of Appeals just as it is under 40A now. So it's just they've softened up a little bit the requirements for qualified to get relief from an ordinance or a bylaw.

Thank you. Here's what I hear. Lawyers are going to have great fun with this one.

You know, I'm not sure of that. In my experience, you hire a lawyer when something's a little difficult. If things are made a little bit easier, not so much. And it seems that the theme coming from the legislature and coming from HLC, of course, as we know, is to try to promote housing. and the establishment of more housing. So how do you do that? Well, you get the communities to soften up their zoning codes so that it makes it easier. So I'm not really sure it's a lawyer's full employment bill. And because it's tied only to RA zones and only to residential, they're not huge projects. Don't, and it doesn't include ADUs. That's a whole other, that's a whole other issue. So we'll lay that one aside. But there's, I just don't think it's going to be a lot of lawyers making a lot of money.

Well, I'm sorry, but I guess the thing that we need to know, and if I were serving on the Board of Appeals, I would like your assistance in helping us work through this so that every appeal doesn't go through automatically. I mean, it's very hard. It has been very hard even for the Board of Appeals to stand ground on a law that I thought was what did require hardship. And yet many have gone through. So I just, it's been kind of, to me, it's been murky sitting there in the audience. But you as a lawyer, I know, you that are able to assist us in doing this, because parking is.

Well, I think, Cheryl, did you do a survey of how many variances were allowed as opposed to denied? I think we have those stats someplace. And they're only over the last year or two, because they're starting to go backwards. And then they changed the law, so it really kind of maybe is not as valuable as it used to be. A lot of times at site plan review, when somebody goes through the required process and they find out what they need to do and all the things they need to comply with and what sort of plans and engineering and so on and so forth and what the elements are that they need to satisfy, They walk away. I mean, site plan review is sort of the gatekeeper to a lot of these projects. The larger projects, 5,000 square feet and above, that's not a really large project. So a lot of them will go there. It's really not worth it. And they do run site plan review meetings a couple of times a month.

I really think we want to do that. Thank you. Anyone else wish to be heard? Anyone from the audience wish to be heard?

52.030 of the Wintertown Ordinance Title Variance is to be amended by striking the words use or in the first sentence. The amended ordinance shall be this follows. The Board of Appeals may authorize a variance from the terms of this title for a particular parcel or land for an existing building where owing to conditions especially affecting such parcel or such building but not affecting generally the district in which it is located. A literal enforcement of the provision of this title would inform substantial hardship, financial or otherwise to the appellant, and where desirable relief may be granted without substantial detriment to the public good and without nullifying nor substantially derogating from the intent or purpose of this title before any variance is granted, the Board of Appeals must find all conditions to be present as specified in general law chapter 48. the only change to this is literally the first line where it has said uh terms of this title for a particular use for apostle and now it says terms of this title for a particular parcel of land there is a second priority council of times on this

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? A YES WOULD ENFORCE THIS ELEMENTARY.

COUNCIL COSTIGAN.

YES.

COUNCIL TASSONIERI. YES. COUNCIL DIMES. YES. COUNCIL RAMONDO. YES. COUNCIL REARDON. YES. COUNCIL FINN. YES.

Ordinance amendment for tree ordinance. We have our tree warden here, would you wish to be heard?

Well, the general idea of this ordinance is to enhance the tree canopy of Winthrop for the next 100 years. Maybe more. And to do that, new construction is required to produce a certain number of trees. And those could be placed anywhere in town, not just at the construction site. And any place in town that is appropriate, determined by the tree warden, the right species, And by the DPW, that location doesn't interfere with anything else. So it's important that we select the right tree in the right place. And that's part of this provision. For example, a lot of people would like to have maple trees. And if you saw today's globe, maple trees may be assaulted by the spotted lanternfly. So maybe we shouldn't plant so many. So this should not be the... contractors' selection of what species. Sometimes trees can be obtained at a discount. They're sort of half dead. So the tree warden should be able to reject any trees that are not likely to survive, any trees that we're going to have to remove, any trees that aren't really trees, like that are bushes, just to conform to the letter of the law and not the spirit of enhancing the tree canopy for the next 100 years.

to consensus on the following recommendations. Section G in the developer tree plan should be incorporated into the zoning ordinance rather than maintained as a specific separate standalone document. The existing proposed tree ratios for multifamily commercial and industrial development shall be generally retained. The ordinance shall expressly state that required trees do not have to be planted on the development site. when on-site planning is intractable. Again, there was a motion made by Chris Boyce to recommend that Section G be adopted subject to the following modifications. The development tree plan shall be included in Section 17 of the ordinance rather than maintained as a separate document. Again, the multifamily professional and industrial provisions shall clarify that required trees do not have to be planted. replaced and may instead be planted elsewhere in the town at locations determined by DPW and tree warden. Each required tree shall be accompanied by a financial contribution to the town in the amount determined by the DPW to provide for the tree's initial maintenance and care for the first two years. The motion was amended by Elizabeth Hamel. Anybody else wish to be heard? Anyone on the council wish

I sat through this meeting of Council President, and I raised some issues. This is an example of we're talking about a very small aspect of the tree issue overall. We're talking only about construction. And I think by taking this piecemeal, I worry that we're going to miss the a whole ball of wax. And so I brought up the example where I live, that in their intimate wisdom, in the condominium association, decided to cut down six trees without telling anyone. And so we were all shocked that the six trees broke up and the six trees gone. So this cannot happen, and Tom was kind enough to mention this and bring the Boston Globe article forward. So we do need a comprehensive plan. And this certainly can be part of it, and I do support this. But I'm not happy about the fact that we've got so many issues about trees, trees and sidewalks, trees and new construction, trees that are cut down by residents on private property, et cetera. So I encourage you to continue this work and make it more.

No, the tree committee is working on another ordinance that would apply the trees on private property where homeowners or property owners would have to apply for a permit to remove trees of a certain size. That's in the works.

Not in discussion tonight.

I just want to clarify that for everyone. Council Member Mott? Yeah, so even in this motion now, I just want to ask, would it make sense to have it in coordination with DPW and the tree committee, and not just the tree warden. Would that be a better process? I don't know enough about this. If you'd want to speak on it, tree warden.

Well, we're changing an ordinance here, so there would be a process involved. Well, could we amend it? Yeah, amend it. You'd have to go through the whole process over there. Pass this, then go further.

We wish to go through the process again.

planning board going through the whole process and being advertised just to clarify any amendments made to an ordinance once it's already at the public hearing phase has to restart the whole phase yes thank you thank you town council president i just want to say thank you to assistant town manager charlotte coleman and to the planning board

for all the time that they spent on this and for the special meeting that they call to make sure that they could give us a determination and a recommendation for tonight's meeting.

Thank you very much. Yes. Like the idea of building a box type building and putting trees someplace else that will eliminate a lot of neighborhood trees. trees should be planted at the location of the big box building. It might turn out to be, if 3A passes, that type of situation in town. They should leave room for trees on the property. And of course, you can't put a bed in a tree So I think the developers will be completely against my idea. I think instead of having no trees in neighborhoods, you should have some trees in neighborhoods and other places. So you should build around trees. They do it a lot in other communities. And sometimes in other communities, there are no trees. You go over to Chelsea and walk around there, and the building's right down to the sidewalk. There's no trees there. So the idea to establish an ordinance that has the trees some for themselves rather than on the property that's being developed, I think is a very bad idea. They should work the trees into that property so we don't have a barren street block, et cetera. Thank you. Thank you.

Anyone else from the public council?

It's just more of a point of information, but I just want to ask, we see that we have these amendments today from the planning board. Could we add those today, or would those have to go through a whole public hearing and a separate process?

Are they material changes? Chairman, may I ask something? Yes. So what I was handed by Councilor Romano were the planning board's recommendations that came out as a result of their public hearing, right? So now you're having your public hearing now. Yes. So you can now decide whether you want to incorporate those into your public hearing now that the public has already had its chance at the planning board to have input with regard to those changes. You can now ask the public for input now at your public hearing as to whether or not you want to adopt any or none of those changes. You can't make a material change. You can't say that they need, you know, if you have two cars, you need to plant two trees or something. That would be a material change. It would have to go back through the process. But from what I saw in those amendments, you can consider them here at your public hearing, and then you can have a vote.

Thank you. Vice President Shorten. A point of clarification.

Does this mean that if we could take out, I just had a question. If indeed we decided that the trees had to be planted on the property, would that be a material change?

On private property?

No, in this amendment.

The planning board's allowing trees to be, recommendation is that they could be planted on other properties if we so chose to change that, that they would need to be on the property, that to me would be a material change.

It would, but when it went to the planning board, my understanding, it did not have that provision in it. It had your provisions. So you can choose to disregard certain provisions that are submitted to you as amendments because you'd be back closer to what you submitted to the planning board for consideration in the first place. So yes, you could.

lot of wind to say yes thank you good evening everyone um so i can tell you the intent of the planning board with that language was specifically to have the developers focus on planting on the property this shouldn't be interpreted as that the developer would have the option we only talked about that in the event that they couldn't um they had to remove parking or what they were planting was not sufficient to what the planning board was requesting, then in lieu of that, we didn't want to lose the opportunity in that language to not have trees elsewhere. So certainly, I can tell you at every planning board, they always focus with the applicants putting as many trees as possible. We really try to push that. But in the event that it just wasn't possible for whatever reason, we didn't want to lose the opportunity if they were only required to plant, say, three trees, and that was it. So that was the intent of that.

Yes, just to go back to that previous conversation. So do we have to make it clear right now during this public hearing that we're also entertaining or hearing for the public on if we should adopt the amendments?

Yes.

Okay. So does the Council President have to make that like clearly stated like that this public hearing is now also including the amendments? Yes.

upgrade has the ability to make changes recommended by the planning board. And we would appreciate any feedback the public had on that. Yes.

Mr. President, I think that is probably the role and the purpose of referring it to the planning board so that they can make their recommendations back to you. And then you can assimilate those back into your motion and vote as you see fit.

and i'm anticipating that there will be suggested changes here i don't know if people feel good either way but if people feel they'd like to take the time to write a more concise document that contains recommendations from the planning board and the council and presented for a vote we still passed all our requirements in terms of public hearings. If we were to come up with a more concise document, it could be a borderline applicant's meeting, if we so choose. Without a public hearing, is that accurate? You can close the public hearing and vote, and defer to vote. So if we chose to, we could close the public hearing, we could, after we get an to come up with a suggestion, send it to Councillor Schwab's committee. We could come up with a more concise document. We could put it on the document and reopen for the vote at the next meeting, if we so choose.

Director Cal.

Can I just add one thing? Yep. One pretty big concern You know, giving them the option, you know, even as a resort, to not have to plant on property, it's going to be a problem now, but 20 years from now, even more so. Our parks and cemeteries can only take so many more trees. HAVE TO HAVE IT ON PRIVATE PROPERTY BECAUSE THE SIDEWALKS, OR YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO REDEVELOP ON THE ROADS AND WIDEN YOUR SIDEWALKS, WHICH THERE GOES YOUR PARKING. SO I THINK HOWEVER WE WORD THESE NEW ORDINANCES, I THINK YOU GOT TO MAKE IT EXTREMELY DIFFICULT FOR A DEVELOPER TO NOT HAVE TO MEET THAT OBLIGATION.

if the developer cannot plant on its own property, this could be a way for residents to get trees at no cost so that they can put it on their property so we can develop canopies and have them last for a long time and care for them. But I do think it's a way for property owners to potentially get some trees on their property at no cost.

Did you want to speak? Yes. Aaron Marcellus, 365. And just to go off, Mr. Sawyer, is the idea that maybe there's an area that isn't being built in that has the space or room Like on public property, that could take the trees that are lacking trees. So there's the ways. But ideally, I think agreeing with another person earlier is that I think it should be really, really, really hard for them to not keep the trees on the property because of the point.

so chooses, I would close the public hearing. I would defer the vote to the following. I'm just interested to have his hand up. I'm going to let him speak, and then I'm going to close the public hearing.

Thank you. A consideration in not requiring the contractor to put trees on their property is that it may jam trees into a property where they're not going to survive. to require that. So there has to be some judgment. This spot might not work for a tree and not require them to do that in order to follow the letter of the law where they miss the spirit of the whole canopy in town. That was the reason for allowing trees to be planted elsewhere, not as an option for the developer, but by necessity of the trees. That was the reason.

Thank you. I'm going to close the point of hearing and I'm going to ask for a motion to defer this vote. Motion to defer. Seconded. Motion by Councilor Dimes, seconded by Councilor Madeline to defer the vote. There is an ordinance amendment for the deletion of taxi fares 5.8.130 and 5.28.140. This is basically enabling the town of Wintham to get out of the taxi business. We've gone through this with meetings where a taxi company has asked for an increase in fares and the way the ordinances are set up. I, and I believe many others at the council, feel that we don't have the expertise nor the knowledge of the financial positions of the taxi company to really make rational decisions on this. I personally believe that in times past when we did not have ride shares and other capabilities for people to get rides, this was more of a detriment for our taxi company to be an undue burden on its residents by having higher than expected fares. So I believe the time now has come for the legislative body of the county to be out of taxing our fare business. But I will open this public hearing and ask anyone from the audience, if you are a proponent or if you are for or against this particular ordinance change.

Yes, John. Yeah, John Morgan, Precinct 4. I am against this. I think that without any kind of supervision from either the town or another body, that it opens the door for the taxi company to increase their rates very... just... just to increase their rates, got their own will. This could affect the seniors in the town or other people that rely on the taxi. If the taxi owner, which is his business, if there's no guardrails, what could be the possibility of the taxi company or another taxi company just raising their rates at will and without any thought of the citizens of the town. I have more thoughts on this and they're scrambling around and I like to I just ended it at that without guardrails, there are possibilities that could affect seniors in the town of Windsor.

Thank you.

This is Dr. Jack Dodds, Precinct 4. I agree with John on this taxi business. You can take the cap off. The town council takes the cap off. For certain, the fares will probably double just to keep up with Lyft and Uber. It's always been the case where the town government protected people from being overcharged. This is a good thing that the town can do to help the seniors, John and others, bus fares and taxi fares. So somebody's regulating rights. I think the town should keep this on the agenda. Not on the agenda, but it's been established for a very long time that the people that run the town put a cap on how much tax it would cost across town. It's a small town. Let's keep it that way. Thank you very much.

both Mr. Morgan and Mr. Dowd's comments, and they make sense. But I look at it as a legislative body that the town council in the last three years has raised rates 30%, which is pretty substantial, has given the ability for the tax company to increase fares 30%. It's a capitalistic society. This gentleman owns a business. To me, he's entitled to do what he wants. If he was to double, I don't think that would be competing with the right chair. I think that that would just eliminate, to me, his business. That's my thought is, again, this is a capitalistic society where you have the ability to have a company and do what they choose, and citizens have the ability to say, no, thank you. But we have increased fares 30% for the residents of this town without any knowledge of the To me, that's not a problem. We don't know if they're the richest company in town or the poorest company in town. If they needed the change or they didn't need the change, just get it.

So I feel we should get out and travel. We get involved with our own businesses. But Vice President Schwab had a hand up. Change those comments to Vice President Schwab. Any other? Yes, sir. Excuse me. Hey.

Max Correa, Precinct 3. I am in agreement with the two people who publicly spoke earlier on the fact that I feel like this is an unfair sort of restriction or rather lack of restriction on with the taxi. But I also want to ask if there is any other sort of legislature regarding the pricing of the lead ride share companies, namely Uber and Lyft, whether there would be some sort of similar ruling in place for those companies. Because effectively, if you want to have a taxi or rideshare service within this town, you're limited to either of Uber or Lyft or Winthrop Taxi. And so I feel like you're effectively dealing with sort of this triopoly of these three companies, one local, two national, that are Dealing with taxis and rideshare services, especially within this town, right? I imagine a lot of Uber and Lyft drivers would be coming from out of Winthrop to serve Winthrop residents, considering the geographical nature of this town. And I was just, you know, wanted to point that out for consideration. consideration in regards to the fact that it's not just winter taxi that this would affect, but also how people interact with Uber and Lyft. And if, you know, winter taxi were to go out of business, then effectively the only company serving this town in regards to those ride shares are Uber and Lyft, which I would say are less beholden to any sort of legislation passed or any ordinances passed within this town. So I just wanted to bring that up.

Thank you.

Yeah, I would just like to respond.

I get your points. I get all the points of all of you today.

But the town, we don't really have the ability to restrict Uber and Lyft. so much as we only restrict the taxi. I don't really think that's fair in the spirit of capitalism, that we can only choose to restrict the pricing of one of these companies. I mean, we don't do this for any other industries in town, as far as I know. And as President Letary mentioned, we don't really get what the tax is financial statements or anything else about them. So I don't feel like the council, as a legislative body, is the time and place that should be judging the prices for any private business.

I also say we have one supermarket. We don't tell them how much they could charge for a loaf of bread. We have a handful of different types of restaurants that we don't say they cannot charge. But this is a free society. You're able to do the business of your choosing and try to make the best of it. And if you do, that's fantastic and all the best to you. And if you don't, that's unfortunate. ANY OTHER QUESTION?

I WILL SAY I'M A LITTLE INDECISIVE. I DO BELIEVE AND I DO HEAR THE PEOPLE AFFECTED MOST BY THIS. I AM CONCERNED THAT IF WE DO NOT, IF THE COUNCIL IS NOT INVOLVED, THAT, YES, WHO IS TO SAY WHO MAKES THAT JUDGMENT CALL ON THE RATES ITSELF? IS THE COMPANY ITSELF GOING TO DEVOLVE THEIR FINANCIALS TO THIS ENTITY THAT And as far as how long the town council has had its input in the local taxi company, I believe it's going to be quite a long period of time. So I do understand the barriers involved here as it relates to free enterprise and business. And I am concerned about the public here. you know, Lyft and Uber, I mean, you know, everything is reliant upon gas prices, and as is the taxis themselves. So with the control of the taxi service in town and the current gas prices, you know, it is an asset for the public. So I am torn as it relates to that. I would like to see some type of structured approach as to, okay, how is it going to be determined in the future? So, and maybe I missed something here.

Are we going to develop a subcommittee or where will this be going for a decision? We would be out of the decision-making process.

I mean, that's pretty clear. Just as there are, you know, people mentioned about rideshares, they mentioned about taxi cabs. We also have public transportation, which we have no input on as to how much a bus ride or make sure we always maintain a level of respect and interest for all the citizens, but we have to do what's best. And again, I don't know who would want anybody in this town making decisions without any knowledge of what they're talking about. And we're arbitrarily potentially raising prices and raising rates for ridership. We don't know if it's legitimized or not.

Yeah, I just have a point of information. What would be the voting threshold if we voted on this today? How many yes votes would have been needed to pass? Is it a majority or just a simple majority? An ordinance change?

Yeah.

It would be six, I believe. Is that only for zoning ordinances of six, or is it all ordinances?

No, zoning ordinances are a super majority. This is a six majority. Simple majority?

I get the concerns of everybody as far as rates and that.

But I mean, effectively, by the council controlling rates, you are basically, it's restraint of trade to the taxicum.

You're eliminating how they can earn their living. What gives you that right? It doesn't. Like I said, Jim, you gave a perfect example. The marketplace. It's 30% higher than stock and shop. I go in there and I'm appalled at the prices. Trust me, I try to go in there as little as possible because of that. Again, we don't tell them how to price things. limiting their rates.

Thank you. And I will respond and just say the market is a tremendous asset to this town and their prices you're paying for the convenience of having that and I respect what they do for this town and what they do for donations and such. Karen and then tell me.

Karen Chavez just a couple of points. I'm either for or against this. The owner of the taxi company does not pay for the gas. That was told to us the night that they were here. So I don't think gas should be brought into that at all. I'm not sure about Uber and Lyft drivers, I'm assuming. I'm the same as the driver for the cab. The cab driver's paid for the gas. And the other thing is, the night that the owner was in, he talked about another company that he had in Revere called Ride Right. And I don't know if anybody has noticed it, but I have over the last few weeks. Ride-Rite has been in town a lot. It's a small white SUV with yellow lettering. If you notice that around, it is Ride-Rite. So I don't know if they're coming in now because the seniors are not using the cab as often. And I've seen Ride-Rite a lot at my...

Those services are available to seniors. They use them a lot to get to medical school. The other thing, what happens here in Winthrop, and I've talked to this with the senior center director too, is

Excuse me if I sound like an economist, but before Uber and Lyft and these other options, the taxi company was essentially a utility and as the only utility had to be regulated by some body and that's the job the town council took on. But now there is and we can let the free hand, the invisible hand of the market, sort out the prices and don't have to regulate a taxi company like we have to regulate a monopoly like the electric company or the gas company. Things have changed since this ordinance was adopted by the town council in the distant past.

And again, the real effect of increasing taxi fees, obviously the people that are using them secondarily are the drivers because they're getting less ridership. And with the cost of gas for the drivers, and now they assume they get a percentage of the fee. So if they get 50% of the fee, they're... Income, net income is diminishing because they're paying for the gas and now they get 50% of a higher rate, but now the gas is superseding that. And if you have less ridership, you get less rides. So you want to make gross money. You want to make as much as you can. And this is limiting them in some ways, shape, or form. So it's the citizens that are suffering and then the cab drivers are suffering. Anybody else? I don't know. Mr. Morgan, last comment.

Last comment. Okay. The time manager just mentioned the senior shuttle and the ride. I've never taken the senior shuttle, but I know it's a schedule-based and the hours are limited when the senior center is open. The 22-year... A customer of the ride. The ride is another option, but there are so many restrictions. And it would be hard if you were going to travel in town to use the ride because of those restrictions. One of the restrictions is that you call 24 hours ahead or the day before. to schedule your ride, the ride will then schedule a time for your pickup, and if you want to return, we'll schedule that also. If you're going to CVS and you're going to pick up a prescription, for instance, if you take the ride, which is a good option, and it's only $1.70 for seniors or $3.40 for anyone else, If you're going into CVS to pick up a prescription and you're done in five minutes, you may have to wait for half an hour or more until that ride returns to bring you home. Again, that's an option, but I just want to let those who don't know that there are drawbacks to both of these services.

That's all right.

All those in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye. Aye. Motion moved that the Wintertown Council vote to amend Chapter 528, Taxi Cabs and Liveries. of the Town of Winthrop ordinance is by repealing and deleting Section 528-130 fares and Section 528-140 amendments to the fees and fares in their entirety. Purpose of this ordinance amendment is to remove the regulations regulating traffic care fares schedules and amendments there too. Town Council finds the municipality municipal regulation of tax affairs no longer necessarily a practical according to the fair setting provisions contained in chapter 528 should be repealed and removed from the wintertown ordinances Section 2, the following sections of the winter town ordinance are hereby repealed and deleted in their entirety. Section 528-130, Fears. Section 528-140, Amendment of Fees and Fears. Town clerk is authorized to make all revisions necessary to incorporate this amendment into the town and winter ordinances, including the deletion of the repealed sections. and the correction remembering or revisions of any affected references or headings and if any section subsequent sentence clause or provision of this ordinance is held to be invalid by a court or competent jurisdiction such determination shall not affect the validity of the remaining provisions which shall remain in full force and effect if this ordinance is passed the it shall take effect on its adoption by the wintertown council and approval and an ordinance in accordance with the wintertown A MOTION HAS BEEN MADE. ANY DISCUSSION, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS? I'LL ASK FOR A ROLL CALL VOTE. WE NEED FIVE AFFIRMATIVE VOTES It's a severe pain. All right.

Council Costigan.

Yes.

Council Tassinieri. Council Milan. Yes. Council Dimes. Yes. Council Romano. Yes. Council Reardon. Yes. Council Finn.

Yes.

Vice President Swope. Yes. President Letary. Yes.

Hello again, John Morgan, Precinct 4. I'm finally getting used to the sound of my voice. I'd just like to say that a week ago Saturday, our Commission on Disabilities had our second Accessible Adventures at Deer Island. I understand it was very well attended, and something of these events take a lot of planning and take a lot of money, which we're fortunate as the Commission of Disability to have our Chapter 4022G fund, which allows us to have this event at no cost to anyone. Also, I'd like to, as a member of the Commission of Disability, our commission would have a very to the volunteers that came to our event. We couldn't have done this without them. The staff at the MWRA was fantastic. Thank you to Mr. Costigan. These are the unsung heroes. And our commission would like to let everyone know that these people are invaluable to us. Having a disability and having a place to go that for people with disabilities is very welcoming. And with the staff and the volunteers again, it makes these events for someone with a disability or not a disability to enjoy themselves. which aren't always possible, mostly I believe it's lack of information. If you have an event somewhere else in town or anywhere else and it doesn't say that these are accessible to people with disabilities, they may not come. Having our events, this is our second event. We hope to continue this in the future. And again, the volunteers, the staff at the MWRA, and all the vendors that we had made this possible. And I'd like to also thank the counselors who attend. Again, Counselor Costigan did double duty. Councilor Romano, Councilor Finn, Councilor Dimes, I hope that you were able to mingle with the crowd and learn about other people with disabilities and how they react and how you would react around them. These are all very important to everyone. Mostly I hope that If you were mingling with a person with a disability that you learned something about them and they learned something about you, But there's one thing that happened that everyone, everyone, regarding disability or not, everyone had the same thing. They had fun. And that's what it's all about. Thank you.

Thank you, John. And John, you do thank everyone. And I just want to thank you for your participation and your involvement.

all right thank you i'm one of eight so nope i know hi marcy hamilton precinct two um a couple of things i'd like to thank suzanne spoke for the strategic planning informational meeting and i look forward to um the town manager getting a consultant to move forward and learning more about how we can have a strategic plan form i'd like to thank kim dimes my precinct counselor for answering my uh My questions last night or the weekend, because I didn't know how the process of that was listed in the legal notices was going to be moving forward. And she answered my questions and I appreciate that. And for lastly, I'd like to remind people a while ago. I, I. I asked the board to give Anita Preble some type of a recognition for her 17 years of service as a parent network. person, just an amazing person who brought families together, communities together, helped children with, helped the people who take care of children learn more through her professional developments. And it would be really great if we got some type of award or some type of recognition to her for all of her work. And she continues to work hard in the school system. So thank you.

Thank you, Marty. Thanks for the reminder. Thank you.

Especially First Amendment Much confusion meetings the last couple of months Whether you can record Publicly or record telling the town council you will be recorded. And the same with video.

And so I want everybody to be aware that it's very important to come here and speak your voice, freedom of speech.

You should be able to video and record and talk about whatever you want to talk about here in this room. My friend, what are these levers on? They're very cheap. So far, I believe, if you read, there's been 30 million of these circulated so far. And I think there's probably going to be another 30 million in the very near future. It's a very big subject now. Freedom of speech. Like I said, they're confusing here, whether or not I could talk. Mr. Tassendere is not here. Whether I could record. Kim Dimes called the police on me. and other factors that made me realize that people have to be abreast of what you can do at public meetings. My friend got them for me, and he said his father, who was on G-Day, Normandy, would very much appreciate the fact that he fought for the freedoms that are expressed in this booklet. To change the subject, there's questions involved and I'm not so sure if there's going to be answers.

Who in this town is authorized to regulate or keep these cameras going in this room?

Is that a question?

That's one question.

Who was authorized in this room?

Well, we have security cameras around this whole square. In this room, in the hallways, outside, on the poles, who was authorized to turn them off? That's a question.

And the question I can give you is we have contract. I would defer to the town manager if we know who the contract is with, but we have several different types of cameras, whether they're security cameras internally or whether they're... All right, so let me narrow it down.

Who is authorized in this room to turn these cameras off? Is there anybody in this room authorized to turn these cameras off?

Well, we're all authorized to have them turned off. They're turned off by... WCAT, but we can authorize them.

Not the WCAT cameras. I'm talking about the in-house cameras, the security cameras, right? Right? We have security cameras in this room. For the town hall and the whole area, police station, library. Who is authorized to turn them off? That's a question. Police department is the answer. The police department is authorized to turn them off?

Yes.

They have access to turn them off.

Nobody else can turn them off.

I can't. I don't know.

All right. So that's the question. Because they were turned off at one point. That's why I'm asking the question. Who was authorized to do that? I'd like to get an answer from that. A written answer.

You've passed three minutes, but if you have a quick question.

A very quick question, Jim. Thank you very much. There's a big project going on down at Ingleside Park to get the water from one side of the buildings to the other side of the buildings. It's a million dollar job, I believe. I've been watching it, along with other neighbors that are in the area. When the water is collected, Down the side of the center project, $2.7 million. They put in oversized pipes, and it's basically a storage area for the water that is collected from the storm drains. Now, they want to get that water from the Pauline Street side to the other side of the gym. Does that water lead out to Donovan's Beach, much of the ocean? That's the question. Leads out to Donovan's Beach. Do we have any facts for that? Back that up.

Yeah, utility tax. We have a utility map that shows the route of the water.

We have a utility map that shows the route of the water. So the concrete, three by three concrete.

It's a four by two box cover. Yep, goes underneath the gymnasium.

So the water that's collected from the front of the building to the back of the building will lead out to the other side.

Anyone else? Anyone else? No. Yes, sir.

Hey, Max Correa, Precinct 3. I want to use this time to discuss my opposition to the automated license plate readers scattered throughout Winthrop, otherwise, quote, colloquially known as flock surveillance cameras. For context, as of right now, there are at least six publicly known ALPR cameras within the town of Winthrop. And when added to the cameras on the Boston side of the Belle Isle Bridge, it is impossible to leave the town of Winthrop by road without being monitored and recorded by these cameras. For additional context, I have previously spoken with council members Romano and Costigan on the matter. And they suggested that I compile a petition per the town charter section H-4 to request that the town council make a motion regarding the status of these cameras and hopefully, you know, act in sort of the way that... regarding the disablement and or the termination of the contract with any of these particular vendors. Based on the public information regarding these cameras, these cameras are contracted to Flock Safety. Denise might be a bit familiar with my name. I submitted a public records request for any information. contract information, any written information pertaining to Flock, but not just them, could be Axon, could be Motorola, could be Genetec, any automated license plate reader vendors. I got a response from Deputy Chief of Police Romero stating that no such information existed. within the town of Winthrop. As an IT professional, I wanted to learn more about these cameras after their rapid and sudden spread throughout Winthrop and the country as a whole. And recently today, I found some information. A friend of mine sent an article from the ACLU of Massachusetts pertaining to the information security risks of these cameras. The article states that a Suffolk Superior Court judge ruled today that the Massachusetts State Police cannot withhold basic information about the agency's use of ALPR cameras to surveil drivers on roads across the Commonwealth. This includes the location of cameras, audit data showing when, why, and how often state police officers search the ALPR database, and that the state police did not meet its burden to justify withholding the camera locations or audit logs of officer activity, and they made sure to censor the license plate information in these reports. That is what they are requesting the ACLU. Do keep in mind that currently, according to haveibeenflocked.com, there are over 4.6 million license plates recorded in over 240 million flock searches through current and past police investigations. These are publicly submitted to the website per public records requests that have not been redacted. This is one of many security flaws within this system, but the answer is not to restrict this data, which companies like Flock Safety have responded by doing so. They have also harassed the maintainer of Have I Been Flocked with the takedown of their website, despite the public nature of the info hosted on that platform. Companies like Public Safety have been intolerant of public scrutiny of their systems and have continued to expand their surveillance network instead of working towards ensuring public safety within their system. Winthrop is trusting companies like Flock with the information of license plates and the people they surveil, and this is an advisable based on Flock's disregard for proper information security and compliance. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Aaron. I'm good. Okay.

I fully support what this young man was sharing. I know that when I did the Civilian Police Academy last fall, we were able to see the cameras on the inside of the police station and see that's where all the cameras in the town go. And I was asking them how long they keep that. And they were saying that they got all the cameras through a grant. I think it was like six or seven years ago, and that they don't, basically, they don't really control who gets access to that from the outside companies. So that is a big deal, and something absolutely 100% worth looking into. But also, on a second thing, I love that you guys are taking the safety on court road very seriously, I think it's super important. And I'm sure, like somebody had said, there's probably many of other streets in town that could utilize that as well. But I want to just bring back up the intersection of Main and Pleasant and the traffic study that was done in 2021 that stated that it was an unsafe pedestrian. It's not safe for pedestrians to cross the street. It's not ADA compliant. And I just want to know what's going to be done with that.

will get more information on that i will say that we have taken your comments seriously i talked to director callow about something down there today that so that is it's one of my big things too just coming in and not just at the intersection of pauline of uh of pleasant and maine but all the way to the bridge and i think it's just an accident we

I sent the video to the council this week concerning that box called culvert steam and I would just like a little more clarification of just where that water is coming from. Just seems like it's an inordinate amount of flow. Haven't had all that much rain. It's just where does that where does that water come from?

Just the water coming from the pipes being installed. I think some of it is. going down to make sure. Right off the box culvert that's exposed.

The water that comes through the box culvert, it's a large drainage basin. It comes from the center. It comes from all the way up to Buchanan and Sunnyside. But what you're seeing down there that they're pumping is, again, the excavation depth. So you're just saying it's groundwater? Yeah. Ingleside Park is almost at zero elevation. You get out 18 inches and you hit the water. We raised it.

A big dig. I was back in the 90s. I wasn't. Anyway, so you're saying that it's just groundwater.

All right. Correspondence Denise.

Committee reports, finance. We went through this, but Council Dimes, you did meet earlier.

Thank you, Town Council President. We met at 6 p.m. this evening in the Harvey Room regarding the motion for $1.5 million for the water main replacement on Wytham Street that came back with a positive recommendation, and we voted on that tonight.

Yeah, right. That has since been voted on. Council Malak, rules?

Rules and ordinance met August 27th at 5 p.m. We did make it through all 12 sections.

The request is now that we all compile our notes together and submit it together.

We did revisit a decorum, which I want to make sure when we finalize it, we discussed it, that We'd like to submit it to the town attorney to make sure we're not crossing any lines with the First Amendment. So we will have that done. I did request for the next meeting to have those notes all compiled together as one. So then we'll have a second meeting to finalize it to submit it to the council. The small commercial vehicle allowance PARKING STUDY DONE. THE MOTION TO DISSOLVE ROADS AND ORDINANCES WAS TO CONTINUE AND THEN THE POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION FOR THE DELETION OF THE TAXI ORDINANCES.

THANK YOU. IT'S AMAZING THAT WE'RE BACK IN SESSION ALREADY. DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION?

YES. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MILLION DOLLARS THAT WE SEEMED TO BE SHORT LAST SPRING AS WE ENTERED THIS? WERE WE ABLE TO MAKE THAT UP, OR WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT?

SCHOOL BUDGET?

YES. IT'S NOT SHORT A MILLION DOLLARS. PREPAID STUFF THIS YEAR. SURPLUS FOR THEIR BUDGET LAST YEAR.

that Superintendent Towers said she was trying to find a million dollars. She was coming up for the $2 million.

She was trying to find for the fiscal 27 budget. She was $1.2 million short from where she was. However, she was able to prepay money for money that was left over for fiscal 26. additional people there, some people that left, but same class sizes, same sections in each of the elementary schools. We have not been able to add band back or other things that we would like to do, increase languages and such, but they did come in.

Fantastic.

Update on policymaking. I do not have anything. Town Manager's Report has been circulated. A couple of things on Town Manager's Report. Just somewhat, I just want to be able to realize that question for the town manager, just feel free to ask the subject may happen to be. And a couple of things, and I didn't go through it in its entirety. But a couple of things that I do want to take this opportunity to bring up before the town manager speaks is, you know, we had talked to CIT about closed captioning, and it's more of a cost item, I think right now, but if you have any And I know we do want to continue with SWOT analysis as we get into the strategic planning a little bit more. If you could help us out with that. I know we did get information from a couple of vendors that might be able to help us with the strategic planning that was submitted to all the analysis. And if you could just go quickly on Eastman at where we stand in Fort Pleasant Park.

That was in the languages and the interest needs. whatever committee decided to send it to, and then, you know, have a chance to make any revisions. I know Councilor Raven had some concerns. I think a lot of them addressed it through the easement. A lot of that stuff was addressed. But if there's additional language you want in there, that will be the time to do that and then get it to the Council to have a vote on it, you know, sometime in the next meeting with them. And anything on the closed caption other than the cost? Well, it was a free service. It was a trial base that they offered, so we only had so many minutes of that, so we'd shoot it up. we can do once we get the HD channel launched. So, still more to come on that, and we certainly want to continue with it especially for people at home that you know may be hard of hearing or have trouble hearing the people speaking in the room having the words pop up even though some of them get a little jumbled but for the most part it gets the general gist of the conversation so he's working on it but we haven't don't have a solution yet because obviously they have to pick up the tab for it and i asked him to price it out because if it's a reasonable option certainly bring it back to the council list and maybe something you want to fund so we're just waiting on some pricing on that and anything further you want to add before i open it up I know I just asked Director Callahan on I know Mr. Senate after I drafted some major put it on the water. So he had already addressed that that was groundwater. The only other thing I will say with regard to the strategic planning quote, I mean, that was two resumes when the proposal was submitted, it's a little less than about 5000 was a proposal. So if the council wants to move forward with that, we can certainly make that happen. So just you know, give me the go ahead on that and I will trigger and set it up and then we can schedule a meeting.

Yes. specific precinct items because I know they're written down here but if you can give an update first on the wall on Grandview and then after about on the Eurobeach meetings.

It wasn't a wall on Grandview it was the dock slash pier or whatever you want to call it. I don't want to be clear on that because it's definitely not a seawall. But we are working on getting some pricing for the riprap because we want to control the erosion We are looking at probably grip wraps and a little what's on the left-hand side of the wall around there and continue down to that next deck or pier or whatever that's there on the house before we get to, Steve, what's the next road in line? Oh, Townsend. Townsend, thank you, before you get to Townsend Road. And we've also got site plans being done just to determine, because I want to confirm that it's town responsibility and what we own and what we don't own. So we're waiting on that to come back from Grady Consulting. meeting on Thursday night. We're getting ready to kick off and keep going with the Coastal Firm installation. We want to finalize, but we're going to put the five entrance locations to the Euro Beach. So we're going to meet with the neighbors and have that meeting Thursday night at 5.

Thank you. And then just to continue on, we mentioned the easement earlier. About the easement, because it's an appropriation, even though it's $1, does it still have to go through the public hearing? Is there like, does the charter have like a limit on, well, if it's under a certain amount, it doesn't have to have public hearings? Yes.

The dollar doesn't trigger it. I know that. I have to get the exact. Okay. I just want to make sure we follow all the legal process. We're going to make sure we do.

Thank you. Thank you, Council President. Thank you, Manager Marino.

I was wondering, sorry, a letter earlier, when we would know who the next police chief would be? By the end of the week. By the end of the week? Yeah. All right. I thought it might have been tonight, but.

I will send out a notice to the council. I'm still finalizing the decision-making process, but we will have an answer shortly. All right.

Thank you, Tom. Thank you, Tom, Council President. Thank you, Tom and Dr. Marino. This might be a question for Director Callow, but I was just wondering what to follow up on the electric bike scooter ordinance signs when they are ready and when they're going to be installed and just following up on that.

I haven't ordered any signs. I don't know anything about it.

He was at the meeting. Yeah, we'll make sure we follow up on that. I apologize. They're not already up.

We'll get them on with the signs that I have ordered tomorrow.

All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

I know that you all got a letter from Carol Fusilla talking about the DPW, the condition. DCR. Sorry.

That's okay.

What did you think about that letter and do you think there's something we can do to...

I'm going to forward it over to my reps at DCR and see if we can get some action on it. I mean, obviously Some of it may be restricted by their beach management plan. Others may not. So we'll send it over, and I'll let you know what kind of response we get. But I plan on forwarding it over to DCR, reps at DCR, to get an answer.

I remember when they came. And I remember they talked about how great, that they did such a great job with Riverview Beach. And we suggested, because they didn't have a machine. Right. I can do if anything else is needed, I know probably

What's the timeline for the parking study?

The RFP is due on the 23rd of this month, so once I get the pricing back, then I'll start to think about it. I just have no idea what it's going to cost. It's the parking and the traffic study, so once we get the RFP back and the results, then I'll let you know what the pricing points came in, and then we can talk about how we want to fund it, and then just hire who we want and go from there.

Is that usually a 30-day process?

them to do the work yeah i mean is there a window because it's a trap when we did the sidewalk study it was six months i think this will be even longer probably six eight months it's a lot of work and they have to do all the analysis and collect all the data just it'll it'll take a little while but once we kick it off it'll be you know i'll have a better idea once we get the bits back in all right thank you and we were looking at one of my streets as well oh we're both yeah it's a whole parking and traffic setting yeah one more uh vice president

Can you tell us a little bit more about the consultants that you talked with and the kind of work that they might do with us?

Sure. It's similar stuff that I've done. They're retired town managers. They've been doing it a little longer than I have been, but they've done it a lot in the past. They work for a company called Community Paradigm now. They do town manager searches and HR analysis, strategic analysis. That's what the company does. It offers up that services, and that was where the big came in from. well and help you run the meetings, coordinate, you know, collecting the ideas, running the SWOT analysis, and then help us, you know, generate a report.

Because I guess one of my things about all of this is really in the end, it's not just the plan, it's strategic management. Right. And that we can fold this into our work.

Once we have the plan, then that'll be up to myself and along with working with the council to make sure that we, you know, adhere to it and, you know, asked me to, you know, get some pricing to see what it would cost to have an outside vendor to come in. So I did that.

Okay. So they will be in the meetings for a couple of meetings?

Yeah. I would suggest we have, you know, the way I've done this in the past is you hold a meeting just for that. So it's one agenda item meeting. We do strategic planning and everybody's focused on that. We maximize the time of the consultant and, you know, where it's helping us along.

Councilor Romano. Yes, thank you, Council President. I also want to ask about on the last bullet of the county's report when it comes to list of grants we've applied for.

Yep, I actually have that here.

Sorry.

Okay. I meant to add something. I promised the Councilor I just had it here. The second page has When you apply online, they don't allow you to get past a certain box and submit the application if you can't check the box that you are 3A compliant. So that hindered us, especially with the green communities grant and others like that. drive that everybody has access to and so far so good. There will probably be a few more added on it as we keep going throughout the year. Thank you.

How frustrated I am? I can keep going off of what town manager Marino said. It's very frustrating for me. I spent a lot of time. It's not like a five-minute application. A lot of information you have to gather, a lot of work. to submit it. And I think the state has gotten really clever when I get denials. I'm not getting the denials anymore in writing saying, because you're not 3A compliant, they're just denying it. But it's very frustrating because there are grants that I know we should be getting. We're very competitive. There's a strong need for the applications that we're putting in and what we're asking for. And so absent when I had gotten the verbal denial on the tree grant, When I asked them to put in writing, when she told me over the phone, it was because we weren't 3A compliant. And I think that was early on. And she did put that in writing for me. But since then, I think they've smartened up. So I don't get anything in writing because of 3A. But every single grant I'm applying for is either a denial or bypassed. And there are grants, like Town Manager Marino said, that They've gotten very clever. So before they used to put in their descriptions what the qualifications were and what the expectations were, and you could still apply, even though I would get rejected or denied. But now there are these checkboxes. So you have to answer the questions before you can even fill out an application. So I can't even submit an application if I check no for 3A compliance.

So very frustrating.

When the checkbox comes, I'm sure during SIPA let us use that in this case for a lot of those. Absolutely. And that's why I thought it was helpful.

And clearly, are those included here as something we apply for? We didn't apply for it. I can't apply, so I don't record it.

And that's indicated here.

So anything I look at, I make sure I try to log. I don't collectively now, this document is shared with a lot of other departments internally. So hopefully everyone is logging what they've applied for. Cheryl, of these, how many did you write the grant for? I think everything in red is what was applied for and denied. That you wrote for. Correct. Everything in red is what has been applied for, whether it was by me or another department, that we did receive a denial.

And also, this includes the grants that you did get? Yes.

but we still need a motion for moves on the answering of public comment, correct?

We just did a two-month trial. We need a motion to vote to continue.

If you choose to do it, we want to vote. Deletion of rules and ordinance is on the committee. Hopefully all these are coming out at the next meeting, 22nd, and we're here.

members to policy and promotion for policy.

That was from Council Romano.

Council Romano was in ordinance.

The two motions are in the package.

Thank you.

amend town council rules and procedures regarding nomination and reappointments by policy making multiple parties. The town council amended rules and procedures by adding rule 13 governing appointments and reappointments to policy making boards, committees, commissions and other multiple bodies. The purpose of this rule is to assist Town Council in carrying out its responsibility under the Charter to investigate candidates nominated by the Council President for appointment or reappointment to policymaking multiple member bodies and to ensure that the Council has sufficient information to evaluate each nominee prior to a confirmation of vote. Prior to submission of a nomination to the Town Council for appointment by the Town Council President, the applicant shall provide to the Town Clerk on a form approved by the Town Council. Current resume outlining the applicant's education, employment, professional experience, volunteer service, board or committee experience, and other information relative to this requisition and any additional information reasonably requested by the Town Council or its designated committee that is relevant to the committee or reappointment. Prior to the submission of the nomination to the Town Council for reappointment by the Council President, the applicant on approved form by the town council. Okay, so this is the difference between a new appointment and a reappointment. Current resume outlining the number of education, employment experience, community involvement, and other information relative to the position, a letter of intent to continue the appointment, and any additional information reasonably requested by town council or the designated committee that is relevant to the appointment or reappointment. Town council clerk shall distribute the materials to all members of the Council five business days prior to the consideration of nomination. Pursuant to the authority granted to the Town Council under the Town Chatter Section 210 to investigate each candidate and require their Appearance, each nominee for appointment or reappointment shall appear before the town council or committee designated by the town council prior to a conference vote. Purpose of this appearance shall be to allow members of town council to obtain information relative to the nominee's qualifications, experience, performance, interest in serving, and ability to fulfill the duties and responsibilities of the office. If a nominee fails to provide the information requested under this rule or fails to appear as requested, the town council may postpone or such appearance occurs. The requirement of applicability, the requirements of this rule shall apply equally to all nominations for appointment or re-appointment to policy-making, multiple member parties. Charter supremacy, nothing in this rule shall be constructed. CONSTRUED TO LIMIT OR IMPAIR THE AUTHORITY OF THE COUNCIL PRESIDENT TO NOMINATE INDIVIDUALS FOR APPOINTMENT OR REAPPOINTMENT UNDER THE TOWN CHARTER, NOR SHALL IT ALTER THE APPROVAL REQUIREMENTS ESTABLISHED BY THE CHARTER. THIS RULE IS INTENDED SOLELY TO FACILITATE TOWN COUNCIL INVESTIGATION quite a second discussion constantly.

Yes, I'd like to thank the rules and orders working with me on this. My original motion was only a couple sentences, but I feel like we've really expanded this out. We've increased the scope. Just want to make it clear to the audience the big changes in this. So specifically that applications have to be given how many days in advance? Five business days. Okay, that's right. Five business days in advance now before the votes. That gives counselors ample time to invest from policymaking on this motion now requires a resume as well. And then on it was amended, I believe it was an honest also five appearances every policy.

For appointment. Yes. Any of that?

So we can't come along. So we can take time when I was a few times. commonplace with this and it was hard for us to actually fill boards and committees right now and adding in these couple of additional like have asking for a resume I know personally I went back before and thinking that could those to fill out the application to just take a little bit more behind there, we want to know that their resume says that they have a history of engineering or schooling behind it. Although the application has some request in that, this would just help us know a little bit more about the nominee. And that's where we came to the final conclusion of why it got expanded beyond a few more statements to what it is now.

I think Councilor Romano mentioned the fact that we don't know many people because we've only been here, most of us, for only three years. So when a resume comes forward, we don't know them all. And they're going to be here long after many of us are gone. And so it is. quite a responsibility, I think, to give somebody a position that allows them to determine so much of what happens in the town. So it would be great if we could have a chance to talk with them, understand their position, and then fully support, if we agree to select them, to really support them

Council President, thank you. I just want to, we did great work, thank you, on this, we spent ample time coming to agreement. I just want to make it clear that I don't agree with reappointments having to come before council. I think it undermines the previous decision and vote on a council vote on someone that's been appointed and voted into a committee. And then three years later, they sent a letter of intention for a reappointment. And for them to have to come before the council again, to me, just really undermines the previous councilor's decision and vote. And I just want to make it clear that I just don't agree with that. Thank you.

Councilor Mata. Yeah.

I don't necessarily fully disagree with the statement. If the council I would like to hear the council's thoughts on this, I would entertain an amendment where it's only on they have to appear when requested instead of requiring every single appointment and reappointment to appear. And just let the council use their judgment if they will feel like they need to ask more questions to the specific board.

I'd like to hear some thoughts with that before I make an amendment. Any other discussion?

is that many of us were not on that board. So we don't even, we have no idea who that person is. So it's more for us. I mean, I, The last time that we did this and we weren't successful in asking the person, we asked, we would love to have had a person back on the board with us who didn't come. My question was, what could we as a council do that would have better supported that board? And I think that with a person that's had that experience, I think we could learn a lot on that and that they could tell us a lot about their experience having been there. And so it doesn't matter to me whether it's a person that comes before us or whether it's in writing or whether we can call them or whether they're on Zoom. I don't. That's not the point. My point is that I want to know more about it.

Thank you, Council President. Councilor Schultz, I completely understand where you're coming from. I think that a remedy, a possible remedy, is that we attend their meetings to investigate and to see them in action. And then also to reach out to the chair. The chairperson of the policy-making board is going to be able to let us know and give us feedback on whether or not they agree with the reappointment. I think that's usually the person, Denise Quist, I think, reaches out when there's a reappointment, asks if the person is going to be reappointed, and usually reaches out to the chair. ask what the status is with the person and so i do trust that system and i would like to see us participate and go into see and support them in their meetings and then maybe the questions you have that you know maybe we can disclose that is there anything that you can need from council or etc and i will say i've said that before that

I try my best to talk to the chairs of the committees to ask them about applicants that chose to be reappointed, see if that's a wise choice or not, because they're working with them, I'm not. This is putting more requirements on someone to serve in a board or a committee than we have for a town councillor to be elected. There's no requirements for a town councillor to do anything, especially if they're unopposed. All they have to do is get 50 signatures and they're in. REQUIRING PEOPLE WHO HAVE THEIR SPECIFIC EXPERTISE. IT'S ONE THING AND IT'S NOT EVEN EASY TO GET PEOPLE TO WANT TO BE ON THE BOARD OF COMMITTEE. IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO GET SOMEBODY THAT BELONGS AND HAS THE QUALIFICATIONS AND SKILL SET TO WORK ON THAT COMMITTEE. I DON'T THINK POTENTIALLY TALKED ABOUT MAKING A MOTION OF THAT. mandatory, it's potentially up to the council to ask. I just don't have a feeling. I don't know anything about this person. I've tried several times to reach out, whatever. It hasn't worked. And I would be much more of a consideration of that. I just think that, again, with policy-making boards, it's very important. Town council is incredibly important, and there are no requirements to be a town council. So, you know, I think we could get into a situation where we're having trouble fielding applicants, fielding committees with qualified individuals.

Thank you, Council President. I don't think that asking for an application and an resume is too much of a burden. But I definitely get your point what happened through here. When I originally wrote this motion, I never included any motion, any wording rather, asking people to appear that was something who's an audience took upon themselves and amended. I mean, I wasn't present, but I understood that at the time, and I did support that. But the more that I think about this, I mean, I'm rolling right now to make a motion to amend this motion. And after on section B, after pursuant to the authority granted to the town council under the town charter section two dash 10. investigate candidates and require their appearance each nominee for appointment or reappointment shall appear before the town council or committee designated by the town council prior to a confirmation vote when requested by a town council and just add that language in there so it's not always mandated it's only when requested

the charter?

Shall investigate.

Shall investigate. Right. It doesn't say shall require. So there's a motion made by Councilor Romano further to change that to further request of the council. Is that what you said? I'm sorry.

Yeah.

Further request of a town councilor.

Second. Of a single town council? So one town council? Well, I wanna

Section 2-10, I think. Yeah, 2-10.

Policymaking, here we go. The town council shall investigate each candidate for appointment and may require any person whose name has been referred to it to appear before the town council or committee thereof. That is the charter. So my point is, it doesn't specify if it's one council or if it is the majority of the council, does it?

No, but we can't change that.

No, I'm not suggesting changing that. I just want to make sure our language falls in line with that. Because I don't know, does that language say that one councilor can do it? Because then if we require a majority, we're going against the charter.

I think if it says the council, it's the councilor as a whole.

Yes. I don't believe we have. Okay, I'm fine with making it a majority.

That will be my amendment for majority of the council. So you don't really have to be.

That's in the charter. No, just having our rules reflect the charter.

All right, so there's an amendment by Councilor Romano. There's a second by Councilor Toss to get in discussion on the amendment. Councilor Romano.

Yes, I just want to say I see both arguments for and against requiring every person to vote. So either way, I support the crux of this motion, whether this amendment does or doesn't pass. I respect any councilor, whatever decision they make on this, like I do with all of their decisions. So if you have any input on the amendment or anything, feel free. Can we read it one more time? Yeah, I'll just read the section B. Person to the authority granted to the town council under the town charter section 2-10 to investigate candidates and require their appearance. Each nominee for appointment or reappointment shall appear before the town council or committee designated by the town council prior to a confirmation vote when requested by a majority of the town council.

And just for clarification, so that's for appointment or reappointment.

There's been a second. Any further discussion on the amendment? Seeing none, all those in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed, no. You guys have it. OK. So now we have the motion as amended. Any further discussion on the motion as amended?

Council Costigan? Yes. Council Tassinari? Yes. Council Malab? Yes. Council Dimes? Yes. Council Romano? Yes. Council Reardon? Yes. Council Quinn? Yes. Vice President Swope? Yes. President Letary?

Yes.

I don't believe we've had a resume submitted yet, unless I'm mistaken.

We had an application resume.

I filed for the other candidate. I didn't see for Mr. Bocchio. Bocchio. Bocchio. My apologies.

No, I'm sorry. Bocchio did the application. No resume. And Gutierrez did the application.

Okay.

But we left also. Okay.

Sorry, I didn't mean to talk over you. So I would like the council to act around the rules, push this off until we get our resume. Well, the rule does not take effect until the maintenance of the next meeting. as Council President also has another name up. I think we only need one for a quorum, am I correct? So we could still have a quorum and vote on the name that actually does have a resume.

You have a name. So you're voting.

I'm abstaining without a resume. As I have made it clear to you multiple times on this Council, I will not vote for any

I did not ask him for a resume.

I'm sorry.

He was on vacation. Yeah. He was asking you about it. He was on vacation.

Okay.

And so is he going to submit a resume? Yeah. Well, he was confused because I had sent everything out and gave his phone number for anybody to give a call if they had questions prior to this meeting because we did need a member. And he hadn't heard from anybody, and he's coming back, I believe, this week.

I didn't, I know that you mentioned this to me the other day about the phone calls, but I didn't, I don't know, I just missed it, I guess, but I didn't talk to him. And I don't know if that's the best

UP THE FACT THAT WE DO HAVE ANOTHER TOWN COUNCIL MEETING BEFORE THE NEXT SUPPORT OF APPEALS MEETING YEAH BUT ONCE YOU'VE FOLLOWED ON IT IT DOESN'T TAKE THE FACT FOR RIGHT SO OKAY UM I THIS IS RELATED I DO SUPPORT THE OTHER NAME IT HAS A RESUME I FEEL CONFIDENT ENOUGH THAT NO ONE IN THE GRAVITAS OF MEETING FULLY QUORUM OF THE BOARD OF ATTORNEY that I have set for myself since I got on this council. That's what that is.

Thank you, Town Council President. I think that we should take a vote on Mr. Bocchio this evening. I think that we have had ample time to reach out to him. He submitted his application prior to this rule change that has not taken effect that we voted on this evening. And I'd like to see a vote taken by council and I'd like to see a vote in favor of Bocchio being appointed to the Board of Appeals so they can carry on their hard work with a quorum and not without a quorum. Thank you. Council Costa.

I'd have to agree with the Council Romano. let alone i think resume would be very very helpful in this case and again i would i would have hoped that maybe we could push it off until the next meeting and this gentleman could submit the resume itself but again i don't have all the details on this individual whereas the other candidate did submit a resume so i'm comfortable with that person anyone else

And then on the second, second, I forget.

Do you have a second?

Okay, I'm going to withdraw this name for this meeting and I'm going to put it forward next.

Thank you, Council President.

A new business. I have a town council accept the appointment made by town council president to appoint Fred Gutierrez to the Board of Appeal Committee for a term to expire on June 30th, 2029. Is there a motion? Motion. Second. Second by Councillor Dimes. Any further discussion on the motion?

Yes. I remember my question come. It was on how many, if this motion passes, how many open seats will there be on the Board of Appeals? Two. Is that two full members? It's one full member and one associate. And a quorum is five?

A quorum is five. You need 40%. You need four votes to pass. And you need 80% positive votes.

Thank you. And I just also... To reiterate, I would like to thank this candidate for submitting a resume. And I do feel comfortable moving forward on this vote. I just want to make it clear that my goal has never been to slow down the voting process or to stop any votes. I just want to make sure that I want to have a system in place that will not stand the test of time. The council needs to establish these processes. I think it's very important for the town before you put anyone into any important voice. So that is my stance. That has been my stance.

And that's respected. And that's your stance. It doesn't necessarily have to be the stance. You can't speak for the eight other members of the council. And again, the stances should be much more stringent for somebody who's a legislature for the town than it is for what fails at least once a month. I move this to a vote.

I'm moving it to a vote. Roll call, please.

Councillor Claston again.

Yes.

Council Tassinieri. Council Malab. Yes. Council Dimes. Yes. Council Romano. Yes. Council Reardon. Yes. Council Penn. Yes. Vice President Swope. Yes. President LeCarrie.

Yes. Motion passes. On the election, I just want to thank Denise and the town clerk department. They did a fantastic job. All the volunteers, thank you very much for your time. You know, as a primary with not a lot of contested races on it. We had a 25% turnout for the town, which is, I guess, crazy to say, but not bad, compared to the state and other jurisdictions and such. But out of those 3,580 voters, we had 33% vote early. Approximately 1,400 people voted Before voting day, the percentages for precincts were pretty consistent, pretty much. You had 24% from precinct one, 28% precinct two, 22% in precinct three, 28% in precinct four, 28% in precinct five, and 20% in precinct six. Again, we have 14,383 registered voters. We have 3,500 people vote in a primary, which, again, as crazy as it seems, is a pretty good number. I do thank all the candidates for putting their names out there, for trying to get their message out. And their victories are just for participating. It's a great thing to be able to put your name on the ballot and put yourself out there. It's not an easy world to volunteer for anything nowadays. And again, for the voting location seemed to have worked out well. at Golden Drive, and one, two, three, five, and six were down at the old middle school gym. It worked out well. There was obviously not an issue, but the state gave us a list of 6,000-odd people that have been on the not active list because of basically not filling out the census. minutes, but it shows the importance of filling out the census, not only for voting, but also for potential money and grants that the city gets, that the town gets, for a certain amount of people they have in town. So, again, I want to thank Denise and her crew and all the volunteers. They did a great job. I mean, the results were out by 20 past 8. which is pretty remarkable when you're in the United States. That takes weeks and weeks. I applaud, again, the talent of its work in the election process. Thank you all for that. Excuse me, easement. We talked about the easement. We will be reporting on this. We're going to refer to a committee, correct? Right. We're going to refer to rules right now. starting this project sometime soon.

We still have a few variables to cross, but it should be fine.

Is there a time limit?

Like the easement?

Yeah, that you put two girls in ordinance.

That they get back to us? Well, I'm hoping that they get back to us by the next meeting. There's not a specific...

on it, then we get it over to Pleasant Park to make sure they're all approved.

And one more question about that. When the group came, and I asked this to Jim, when the group came to talk to us about it, they had to go through this compliance process. Will we get the results of that before, when will we get the results of what they went through?

They'll need this to finalize those results. So they'll need the, I mean, they're still a ways away. It's, you know, not until November, December timeframe, but I done down there but for some but for us to approve it we don't see any of the work that they went through to to they're showing me the permitting process and yeah we get updates on it but i mean as far as you know to finalize the process the easement is a piece of that puzzle that has to be voted on before they can get the permit they won't give a permit unless it's you know approved by the town and the owner of the property to run the pipe where they need to run it so

Well, we've agreed on that piece of the project. It's one of the final pieces of the puzzle, but it's something. Yes, thank you. I would like the town attorney and whoever to look into the

publication process. I have the chart in front of me, and there is no dollar amount from the charter that says under a certain amount it doesn't have to be publicized in the paper. But I just want to make sure that if we're going to vote on this on the correct timeline, we don't miss a deadline and say, oh, we were supposed to do a public hearing, but oh, it's supposed to go to finance.

Um, clarification on town manager's report. That was just me stating that as we just did tonight. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Opposed ordinance amendment. Uh, Councillor Costa.

Yes.

Um, I did, uh, put forth a motion as it relates to

So I'm going to read it off. Thank you very much. Of course, it's not in color, but that's okay.

I had it outlined in red. So bottom line, text of the motion, and this has to do with the CBD. There's been a lot of discussion as it relates to the CBD and the time restrictions and some other wording and some other zoning issues that... you know, affect CBD as it relates to 3A or as it relates to development in the Senate Business District. And in thinking about it and, you know, conversing with a lot of people who are concerned about the CBD, unless it is a Senate Business District. The issue we have down in the Senate Business District, at least with develop the Senate Business District. And without a comprehensive, I believe, parking area for the Senate Business District. And the increase as far as it relates to some of the language in the CBD under that chapter 17. Thank you very much.

This is going to be referred to.

Thank you.

WELL YES WE'LL SEND IT THAT WAY I'LL SEND IT TO THEM THANK YOU SO NOT TO ABHOR EVERYONE HERE UH WITH REGARDS TO THE TEXT OF MY MOTIONS HERE UH 17 uh 5130 PROCESS UNDER PROCESS CURRENTLY AFFILIATED BY THE PLANNING BOARD UH TO TAKE FINAL ACTION UPON A SPECIAL PERMIT APPLICATION WITHIN 90 DAYS OF THE CLOSE OF PUBLIC HEARING SHALL BE DEEMED TO BE A BRAND OF SPECIAL PERMIT AND THE TOWN COUNCIL SHALL SO CERTIFY THAT'S CURRENT REPLACE THIS WITH FAILURE BY THE PLANNING BOARD TO TAKE FINAL ACTION UPON SPECIAL PERMIT APPLICATION WITHIN 60 DAYS OF THE CLOSE OF THE PUBLIC HEARING SHALL RESULT IN AN IMMEDIATE NOTIFICATION TO THE TOWN COUNCIL BY THE PLANNING BOARD. THE TOWN COUNCIL SHALL THEN ACT AS THE SPECIAL PERMIT GRANTING AUTHORITY FOR AUTHORIZATION OF SPECIAL PERMIT. IN THE EVENT THE TOWN COUNCIL FAILS TO RULE ON GRANTING SUCH PERMIT WITHIN 30 DAYS, IT SHALL BE DEEMED TO BE GRANT IN THE SENATE BUSINESS DISTRICT, ANY COMMERCIAL OR MIXED USE STRUCTURE THAT IS REQUIRED TO PROVIDE PARKING SPACES MAY MAKE PAYMENTS TO THE TOWN IN LIEU OF PROVIDING FOR PART OF THE ON-SITE PARKING REQUIRED. PAYMENT MADE TO THE TOWN IN LIEU OF PROVIDING AT THE 50% PERMIT FROM THE PLANNING BOARD. CONSISTENT WITH STANDARDS TO BE ADOPTED BY AND PUBLISHED AND ADVANCED BY THE PLANNING BOARD, THESE STANDARDS MUST BE KEPT ON FILE WITH THE TOWN CLERK. A ONE-TIME FEE OF $20,000, THE APPROXIMATE COST OF STRUCTURED PARKING SPACE. PER PARKING SPACE IS TO BE PAID TO THE TOWN THAT WENT TO PRIOR TO RECEIVE THE OCCUPANCY EASE IN LIEU OF PARKING SHALL BE DEPOSITED INTO A DOWNTOWN PARKING RESERVE ACCOUNT TO BE USED FOR EXPENSES, I.E., LAND ACQUISITION, DESIGN, ENGINEERING SERVICES, AND CONSTRUCTION COSTS RELATED TO ADDING PARKING SPACES, IMPROVING THE UTILIZATION OF EXISTING PARKING SPACES, SIGNAGE, PARKING MANAGEMENT, ET CETERA, OR REDUCE THE NEED FOR NEW PARKING TO RESERVE THE SENATE BUSINESS DISTRICT, BUT WE'RE TALKING BICYCLES, PARKING RIDES, SHARE, AND IMPROVED TRANSIT. And this is to be replaced with or added to fees in lieu of parking in the Senate Business District. Any commercial or misuse in that structure required to provide parking spaces may make payments to the town in lieu of providing for a part of the on-site required parking. Payments made to the town in lieu of providing up to 10% of the required on-site parking spaces allowed by special permit from the planning board consistent with standards to be adopted by and published in advance by the planning board these standards must be kept on file with the town clerk so instead of fifty percent it's ten percent uh in addition a one-time fee of twenty five thousand the approximate cost of a structured parking space per parking space is to be paid to the town of winthrop prior to the receipt of an occupancy permit These little pockets shall be deposited into a downtown parking reserve account to be used for expenses, i.e., land acquisition, design engineering services, construction costs, etc., related to adding parking spaces, improving the utilization of existing parking spaces, And the addition, request to appropriate funds out of this reserve account shall be filed with the town council. That is the addition to that chapter there. So 17-12040, mixed use, under dwelling use, shall be allowed on ground floors of buildings if c the street frontage exceeds 100 feet in length to the maximum ground floor street facing dwelling units do not exceed 75 of the street frontage at the discretion of the planning board by special permit consistent with standards to be adopted by and published in advance by the planning board these standards much kept on file with the town clerk proposed to eliminate the following in its entirety c the street frontage exceeds 100 feet in length And the maximum ground floor street facing dwelling units cannot exceed 75% of the street frontage. At the discretion of the planning board by special permit, consistent with standards, be adopted by and published in advance by the planning board. These standards must be kept on file with Tom. So that's eliminating its entirety. Last but not least, changes to the chapter. 17-16-030, table of dimensional regulations. Power move. FOOTNOTE 15, TAG TO HEIGHT LIMITS INCENTIVES THIS DISTRICT. FOOTNOTE 15, A LOT GREATER THAN 100,000 SQUARE FEET IN THE AREA THAT ARE ADJACENT TO A RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT. FOOTNOTE 14 SHALL NOT APPLY. THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT SHALL BE 35 FEET AT THE MINIMUM SETBACK AND MAY INCREASE ONE ADDITIONAL FOOT UP TO A MAXIMUM OF 48 FEET SO LONG AS THE ADDITIONAL FOOT OF SETBACK IS PROVIDED TO EACH FOOT OF ADDITIONAL HEIGHT UP TO 48 FEET. WHERE THE HEIGHT MAXIMUM IS LESS THAN 48 FEET, THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF STORIES SHALL BE THREE. PROPOSED CHANGE. ELIMINATE BOTH FOOTNOTE 14 AND 15 AND REVISE MAX STORIES HEIGHT IN TABLE 17-16030 TO MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF 35 FEET ONLY IN THE SENATE BUSINESS DISTRICT. AND THAT CONCLUDES THE MOTION. THANK YOU.

I don't think enough is said about the election.

I personally witnessed it.

There isn't anybody who works any harder than those three people for the month prior to the election, the weeks after the election. They just work. I just can't tell you what they do. Also on election day, prior to us going there, the custodians were down there and set everything up for us. Not only did they do that, and I don't know who authorized this, they painted the bathroom, and they put new light bulbs in the bathroom. And when you walked into the bathroom, it was like, who turned on the stunts in here? Because that was the dingiest, dirtiest place you've ever seen in your whole life. And I thank every one of the custodians I saw that day for just doing that. Also, the police that were there. We had two police officers that were. Couldn't have asked for better. I mean, it seems like every time we have police officers at the gym, they're always good. But these guys were really good. And of course, it rained. We had a couple of really downpours. So they made sure that people were moving in and out very, very quickly. Again, in order to know what goes on with an election, you have to work one. If you don't work one, you don't know what goes on. So please, they can always use more people to help out. Just remember how hard they do work.

Thank you.

Thank you. 100%.

Thank you, Mr. President. I want to comment on the Rules and Ordinance Committee. I've attended the last couple of months. I believe I haven't missed the Rules and Ordinance meeting.

The chair of the Rules and Ordinance has limited public speaking to two minutes. If you want to comment, commentaries in the town council, you get six minutes.

One at the beginning and one at the end. Six minutes compared to two minutes. You're not the only commenter. Two minutes of comment goes into procedures for the rules and ordinance. And at some point, They want to have an application and a resume. It can vary. My resume was always, if you see me on the top of a 54 ladder or with a post hole digger in my hand, you know what I do. So I go along with trying to find out on an application your employment and all your previous employments. to be appointed. I think it's a good idea for a resume and an application. And if you're working outside of the town, my resume is pretty simple, then you should have an application that states where you work, how long you've been there, and a contact number.

So people in the town can know what your previous experience is.

Getting back to the Rules and Ordinance meetings, two minutes. At one point, a town council person on Zoom called in and it was myself for two minutes and a council person for two minutes. And all of a sudden, you hear, well, your time is up. There's nobody else in the room. It doesn't make any sense. The Rules and Ordinance Committee really doesn't make any sense. Thank you very much.

I just wanted to say one other thing on the election. I wanted to thank Representative Turco. He provided all the lunches for all the poll workers in all the elections. Oh, one or two. Right, yeah. He provided them all, which is very nice.

All right. Upcoming events. We have the Winter Recovery Night at Town Hall next Wednesday, the 16th, from 6 to 8.30. It is a... want to say it's a great event like it's festive it's a solemn event to me and i think it should be treated that way but it is run fantastically and you know it will start at town hall we'll walk down towards the center and there'll be a few little speeches and such but it's a it's a great event i'm The Senior Center National Grid will be at Wednesday, September 9th from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. to help people with any questions about their accounts. And if you have any questions at all. So I encourage people to attend that. Music on the Landing, September 13th from 1 to 4 p.m. Farmers markets, there's three more left, September 13th, 20th, and 27th. That's 9 a.m. to 1 p.m. And we will also be having for the second year in a row, the Winter Foundation, Representative Turkle and myself will be putting on a free concert. It's the North Shore Philharmonic. It is a concert at St. Mike's, St. John's, whichever you prefer, at... It's on Saturday night, September 19th at 7 o'clock. Everyone is welcome. It is free of charge. We encourage people to bring cans of food, and we will donate all those food to the Winter Food Pantry. But it got great reviews last year. It's a great concert. I really encourage people to try to attend. So that's Saturday night, September 19th at 7 o'clock at St. Louis. So just looking at the upcoming calendar, we have a council meeting on the 22nd of September. October, we usually have the fall forum at the end of October. The town manager will be out of town at the end of October, so we will be having the fall forum on October 6th. and we will have a regularly scheduled meeting on October 20th. And at probably either the next meeting or the first meeting in October, we will discuss the November calendar. November 3rd would be a regularly scheduled meeting. That's election day. And the week of the 24th is Thanksgiving. So I would suggest either we meet potentially, we can meet the 10th and the 17th consecutive weeks we can meet on the 10th which would be three weeks after the 20th and three weeks before december 1st which would be the next scheduled meeting so just to put it on your radar we'll talk about that and either the next meeting or the meeting after that um but again the fall form will be october 6th just real quick you're setting up the timing for the fall forum just remember as i mentioned in that email we'll be more than likely appointing a new chief of that well attended so the senior center is a great venue yes it will definitely be a senior center what time is that that will be there will be a council meeting at six it will be a special meeting at six in the spring and the fall form at seven and there will be real quick you also swearing in the new uh police members that that that day um i checked the chief on that i'm not sure yeah i think so yeah And Council Swope had a couple of quick things to discuss.

Caitlin Burrows talked to me about the possibility of us getting involved with the Bloomberg Center and that they would be willing to give us some advice and some help. They do a lot of work with mayors. However, when I looked it up, and I haven't talked to her again about this, but when I looked it up, it was only with mayors. It towns with mayors. But the Rappaport Center does help. And it's free of charge. They give us an intern for if we want to apply. And we definitely have 10 weeks in the summer. And we just have to come up with a problem. I can't imagine. We don't have any problem. So I took it upon myself to kind of draft a letter. This all has to do with what Tony really wants to do and what you all think would be the most appropriate for this group to work with us on, if you want to . And that's really because it's a lot of . A lot of it is just stuff that we would be interested in, such as maybe what Cheryl is doing, which is grant dependency and fiscal exposure, and take a look at what that really means for us. And so that's one possibility. I just put it down as some possibilities. Please look it over next week if you don't mind us checking off a couple if you think we need to get that and pass it on to Tony and then he can make a final decision on it. Thank you.

Thank you. All right, seeing no further business.