Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

At 7 o'clock, we're going to call to order the town of Winchester to plan a zoning commission meeting for June 22nd. First thing to do is we'll call roll call.

John Queen.

Peter Marchand.

Willie Platt. Adam Quagliaroli.

Charlene LaVoie. Brista Malanca. Jan Perry is resigned, and Scott is absent and excused. And then... gender review. Anybody have anything on the gender review? No? Okay. Public comment? Anybody out here with any public comment or anything that doesn't pertain to a meeting tonight? Does that look like it? Okay. So now we'll call, number four, we'll call to order the public hearing PZC 26-6, applicant Alex Fortuna, on behalf of Forsaken Lands, location 32 Norfolk Road, proposal special permit So does anyone want to second that? I'll second. Okay.

Alex, just hit one of the red microphone buttons to turn it on. I second.

How's everyone doing tonight? Good. My name's Alex Fortuna, owner and operator Forsaken Lands Outdoor Haunted Attraction. Current business address is 54 Bear Hill Road, Goshen, Connecticut. Mailing office address 264 Ridge Road, New Milford, Connecticut. And I just want to ask that everything, you know, presented tonight, you know, as part of the presentation, whether it has been submitted for, you know, the record or not, that we ask for it to please be incorporated as part of the record. And I will hand it over to Megan.

Good evening. My name is Megan Miller. I'm a project manager with Civil I. We've been retained here by Forsaken Land to prepare these plans, and I'd like to just present them.

to you, and then if you have any questions, please let me know. So as you are aware of, this site is .

We have here actually a map of the entire site, along with 500 feet of the property. We have Route 44 here to the south. This dash line is that 500 foot offset. The green line is our property line. And then there's more detail here that I'll, of course, go into. And then we have our closest activity to residents is 1,365 feet. So the topography goes from downhill into this river, which is the Colbert Brook, and then back up into the topography. And then, of course, you have the Mad River down here.

So, our site in more detail, as you can see.

This is our site. Existing topography, I'm going down in this way. It's currently vacant. There is a cell tower with an existing driveway access from 44. It's gravel, pavement sections. Our proposal is to widen this existing driveway to a width of 22 feet within the state right-of-way and then go to 20 feet and widen it out both directions with some grading. And so that's, we crossed three culverts, existing culverts here, here, and another one up here. Our proposal is to extend them to the new width of the driveway, have riprap modified apron pads, which will direct water, slow it down, prevent erosion, and a riprap swale on the western side of the driveway. So as water goes down, it's traveling this way towards the east, hits this swale, and then is directed into the subsequent culverts. We have a new driveway access. So this one will go up to the tower. And then one coming over here as we are going to our attraction. This is a 20-foot wide driveway, which is made out of asphalt millings. So you excavate the topsoil, put a base down material, and then you put these millings, compact it, and make it stabilized. We have a grading plan here. On the downhill slope, we have a stone infiltration trench to hand the storm water. So that the water flows into it, hits that stone trench, goes and infiltrates into the soil as it does today and slows it down. We have soil erosion controls such as soap vents and a topsoil material stockpile area. So as you were heading down the hill, you then come to this emergency vehicle access. That will also be Millings surface. It's 50 feet by 75 feet. It's enough area for emergency vehicles to come in, make a turn, and then come back out. And then we also have this access way here where you can access our proposed grass parking area. We are proposing 120 spaces, which includes five ADA parking spaces, which will not be grass, but will be processed gravel. So that will be, again, compacted and meets ADA standards. Our stormwater infiltration also is on this now downhill side. It's on the other side of this parking area. And again, that's two foot by three foot. Our storm infiltration trench has been sized for the 100-year storm event. So that means that for a 100-year storm event, there's an amount of water that we can dissipate. And our design has been designed for that volume. Also, it's much more than our water quality volume. So it's also taken care of by our water quality, which is what we call 1.3 inches of runoff, where you can typically see, like, foils and sediment, things like that. Also on this side, we have a stockade fence, and that's located 35 feet away from Mount Eli. Over here, From the 800 standpoint over here, it's all pedestrian. So that makes grade, it's flatter, and it's 20-foot wide. So again, any emergency vehicles could access this area. We have this round 40-foot radius circle, our food truck area, ticketing, things like that. And then you have your queue area before you go into your haunted attraction area. People would then come back out. and access our driveway and then come back down to the street. That is about our cycling. This red dashed line is our 75-kilogram regulated area. As you can see, there's no work. in that area, and then this area is the wetland area. So wetland area, 75 foot offset. There are some portable lights shown here. Those are portable towers, maximum 30 feet, and it's directed towards this area. To get a little bit into the distance from here to the road, we have about a 40-foot grade elevation difference.

How much? Forty feet. Forty feet?

Elevation, yeah.

Now, how much of a grade from the walkway and the parking lot down to the wetlands?

From here, I can certainly find that elevation for you if you got my scale. water, and then from here, this attraction to the edge of the road is 270 feet. And again, our attraction is about 40 feet lower than the elevation of Norfolk Road, which creates a visual and cultural barrier, of course. And then as far as this is the lower area, so you have a much more auditorial and much more visual, of course,

So it looks like they're from the start of the parking lot down to the well.

So 8.75% slope. are a limit of disturbance so that means that all those that area is going to remain as it is today so wooded vegetated stabilized and again we have soil erosion control such as silk beds once it's stabilized you know that sometimes gets removed and nothing is really moving from the site and we're handling any storm water coming off of the farm

So the fence is going to go all the way down to the food truck area?

It stops here, about the 725 station.

Goes to here.

And then it comes along this area, which is where it's closest to the property line. Out here, it's our property line.

It looks like it comes along the whole back and then the whole sidewalk right down.

Yeah, if you've got a brown line, go, well, actually, that must be the center line on the road.

That's the center line, but the line with the dots looks like it comes around the corner.

It stops right here. If you look at here, and then it goes along here.

Did you have to look at a light trespass of vehicles going down the entry road and shine a light forecasting light further into the neighbor property? And the question is, like, is a six-foot fence high enough to block all light trespassing of the people driving down that driveway?

So it goes down here. So while you're driving here, your lights are heading this way. Yep. So as you're driving down, it goes along the way. Yep, yep, yep. And then all around here where you're really – It's pointing towards the properties when you're parking.

Yeah.

So that fence is going to handle that.

And then I think the segment of the road is right after that right hand. Ben is entering. Oh, no. Before that. Keep going before that. Yeah, that segment is pretty much. I think you got like a 15% grade down there. But and then you turn right slightly now right there. And so the question would be is tall enough.

Yes.

So if you're going down that slope of the drive is a six foot fence, Tom, block the lights.

I think we have trespassing to the neighbor. I think we have to remember, too, that it's a it's a fence.

Yep.

But then all of this is what? Yeah, there is over a thousand feet of landscape before you reach your neighbor. their property right yeah I thought it looked like the grade lines I thought it looked like the light would go across or go with the grade lines right so you're going to forested land and then it drops down in your elevation. And so it's, it's your trees are gonna create a natural landscape buffer, um, before it hits any development over a thousand feet.

But the leaves will be off in the fall.

It will be off in the fall. Um, it's also still over a thousand feet and elevation difference.

it's quite a bit it's kind of a natural so then you have to come back up to that elevation how so if you were to again what was there do you look at any like trespass analysis going down that slope of the of the drive it's going to

There was no photometric analysis of the vehicles.

That's not what you're asking. So I think there's a greater slope page, right? So right here, right? I would believe... So this is the slope of the driveway coming in, right?

That is the slope of the driveway coming in, yes, from this section here.

So the segment where the car got right there, I would think would be this line right here, right?

So that's station 30 at 300.

Yep, so the headlights are going to die into the property. If you were to put the stockade fence somewhere, where would it be on this chart?

It starts at station 450.

So the stockade fence starts here.

Yep.

you have a vehicle where your headlights are typically four feet off the grade. So it's going to hit a barrier and then even if it, there's plenty of landscape buffer.

Understood. So the only portion where I would see you would have light trespassing would be up here, but it's on that bend Yep. So the segment of the driveway where we would be concerned with, like trespass, the headlights are going to die into the ground or the six-foot. Okay. I want to double-check that. My interpretation is correct. And if you did that deliberately or not. What's the maximum grade of the driveway?

The maximum grade of the driveway is 14.75%.

So almost 15% done.

so just like on the driveway after the corner just by scraping the top soil off there and putting millions in it's going to support an emergency vehicle so you're putting down

Um...

It has to be rolled in to bind together and do all that.

Exactly. But when it's compacted, it's a compacted surface.

The initial driveway coming in, I've been curious about that one because that's got a right-of-way. yeah to the cell phone company and isn't there power under that so um there was a site meeting with district four engineers not the d.o.t the batch of the d.o.t isn't there a cell phone lines and uh power lines very power lines there

um so i could i could jump in with that yeah so um i've been in contact with both american tower corporation and eversource for that exact purpose for that exact reason and i've discussed that with them um so we've shared you know these plans with them and uh they said at this time there's no concern of course before war commences we will be doing you know an 8-1-1 call before you dig to verify that um however Again, you know, this is, the way I explain it to them, it's surface work. You know, there's no major digging. Obviously, the swale that's there that's existing will have to get moved over. And obviously, prior to any of that work being done, we will call 811, you know, to ensure that we are not, you know, touching any of those lines. So the American Tower and I've been in touch with the attorneys from both American Tower and Eversource that cover this district so that they're well informed on the plans. Yeah, and they reviewed the easement language, and in the easement it says that we have the right to improve anything within the existing driveway in the easement area. So both are attorneys I've been in touch with.

Previously you had stated that you were going to do all this work yourself. Are you still anticipating doing that?

Yes.

I'm a little weary of you being able to build a road to the standards that she's got designed here. OK. So what are your concerns about that? Can you do that? You're going to get compactors in there? You can't use a skid steer to compact those. Of course.

Yeah, rollers, yeah. Yeah, we have connections at Sunbelt. We've done it before, you know, at our previous location, you know, for our access road and, you know, developing the site where the attraction lived. Yeah, we've done it all before.

Is Civil 1 going to be doing inspecting the roadway, the construction of it, and certifying it?

We haven't, but I'm sure if you want to... We'd be open to that.

We'd be open to that. There obviously should be some oversight who's building this and how it's built. So there's no liability on the town. We're open to that.

John, you got any questions?

What are they made of?

So those are four foot by eight foot plywood framed wall panels. So they're completely modular. And so there's no floors or foundation or roof. So they are also referred to as Hollywood flats. So there are, again, four foot by eight foot sections that form each of the sections of the attraction, you know, with a facade on the front, emergency exits located every 50 feet, extinguishers every 75 feet, emergency lighting throughout that can be activated at any time the power cuts out or, you know, by manual switch. and egress around, you know, the exterior of the attraction. Did you get a chance to look at a couple of our prior meetings? I could pull it up on my iPad here and show you. We have in our full proposal PDF, we actually have drone shots of our previous attractions so it could give you a better, you know, visual of what it's like. Do you want me to pull that up on my iPad? I could show you.

Yeah, I probably would. I'm sorry.

Okay. Would you like me, I could pull it up on my iPad, I could show it to you if you'd like.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind. Okay.

I don't know if I'm going to be able to get it up there, but I could, is that okay if I bring my iPad up? Okay. If you just give me one second, if you have any more questions for Megan while I pull this up.

You guys already saw this? Yeah. Previous meeting we talked about it. We've got the Jeremy. this whole new engineered site plan is totally different than what was presented to the police and fire department has this new plan been sent to them for review it's been sent but we just received it on thursday so we haven't had any because we haven't had any response yet i know that alex is now is there going to be any other access from the parking lot to the actual haunted attraction area so that no that's that's the primary so basically for fire and ems they're going to have to park down at the bottom of the parking lot and hoof it in almost an eighth of a mile to get into the haunted house area this area is a 20 foot okay but that's pedestrians are going to be in there so if you're trying to evacuate pedestrians you're going to be trying to get an ambulance or a fire truck in there well i'm sure we we have it built in our emergency access plan if that were to be used we have crowd but that's an eighth of a mile you've got to get to get into the haunted house and so as far as a fire truck yep you've got a 40 foot radius turnaround yep with food trucks in it You're going to take a 35-foot fire truck and put it in there and try to turn it around? No.

So I actually spoke to the fire marshal when I dropped the plan off.

Not fire marshal.

I'm talking fire chief. Fire marshal doesn't drive a fire truck. Okay. So I shared before the final site plan was done with Civil 1. All the previous plan had.

I'm talking about this plan here. Understood. This is totally different. You've got an access point from the parking lot coming right up directly to a food truck area.

okay so you'll have a short distance okay now you're talking almost an eighth of a mile from where the trucks are going to park up to the haunted area okay so yeah i mean that's that's fine i mean so i do just want to you know throw it out there the pre before we you know finish you know the final stipend civil one i put up the mock-up that i have presented to you guys originally at the previous meetings i had altered that to reflect this plan to show the same distance and you know that the direction that we were going and i actually sent an email um to you know the staff fire chief, fire marshal, police chief. And I said, this is the layout that we are going to be going with, which reflects this and shows the EVAP in that same relative spot. And I said, if you have any concerns or any questions, please feel free to reach out, as this is the direction that we are going with the orientation of the layout. So they were notified of the change. Which was how long ago? I could tell you right now.

Because it's nothing we've received in our packet, and there's been no update from the fire chief or the police chief.

I want to say that was two weeks ago. Let me see. Give me one second, please.

So, Jeff and Jeremy, in my experience, when the fire marshal reviews plans, they usually look at fire safety and truck access. Not fire, but truck access and that as well.

The fire chief has to look at operational, from an operational standpoint, going in and actually either rescuing someone or going in to fight a fire if there was a fire.

I will say in most communities I've worked in, We typically, and we communicate with everybody, but our typical line of communication is through the fire marshal who then forwards it and goes back and forth with the chief.

I'm just saying. It was totally reversed from what the original plan was. They did respond to it and had no issues to it.

Yeah, they've been notified, and as of now, we don't have any comments.

On June 9th, that was sent out.

Okay.

And did Civil 1 do turning radiuses and stuff to confirm that a fire truck could get in and out?

The access, we did not perform turning radiuses, but this area is 50 feet by 75 feet. I mean, that's...

Yeah, that's 50 by 75. That area is quite large.

Yeah, we don't have any concern.

That's not a problem. The problem is up close to the venue.

Now, again, if you want to make a shot here.

That's for pedestrians, right?

So people, like, I mean, you're going to pull over if you're driving on the street, right, for an ambulance? Mm-hmm.

Right, but there's going to be food trucks there. Yes. So 40-foot radius with food trucks doesn't leave you any room to turn around.

It's, again, this is like a beach, isn't it? It's a little grassy area. Yeah. I see what you're saying.

Yeah. But... I mean, if there are no food trucks there, yes, it would be totally... Let me...

I'd like to have a singular food truck. We went out at multiple. There will be a singular food truck. We don't do more than one in an evening. We only do one at a time.

Mm-hmm.

And then also I'd like to throw in with the pedestrian path. So that's not an artery where guests will congregate at any time. There will be no queuing there. There will be no standing around there. That is strictly an in and an out. that's a constant flow in that area so whereas in the queue area you know leading up to the attraction everybody's standing in line that's different right um so in that what we're referring to is the the pedestrian um path there if we did need to get an emergency vehicle through there it will not be a large volume of foot traffic that we would even need to clear out of there That's just the residual the people coming in for each slot and leaving, you know They're not really congregating until they get into the queue area leading up to the attraction So the generator will be if you look at the haunted attraction area about 25 feet outside of that

And... You're going to ask east, west, south?

Yeah, so we're going to... Yep, you're going to be looking at east. So between the queue area and the attraction area. And again, subject to change. You know, it's not... You know, it doesn't have to be in that specific area. That really is... You know, if you have preference of where you'd like for that to be, that's completely... And you have a light tower? Yes, sir.

Um... We have a requirement that the lathes have to be no more than 16 feet tall.

Jeremy and I had spoken about that. So it says 30-foot maximum on there. I believe Brian probably put that in there just based looking at the spec sheet for the light tower that I gave him. And, you know, we understand that it will be a condition of approval that we will not exceed 16-foot in height. It's on a pulley and crank. You could lift it to any height that...

Okay, can you... You still get your desired spread of light? Yes. You need multiple? Yes. Just one is good enough?

Oh, yeah. At our previous location, we actually had the parking area split up into two sections, and one light tower was more than sufficient. We don't have a need for more than that, especially this is more concentrated than our previous parking layout.

i should say at our previous location excuse me so light towers can have different heads on them are you getting what a construction head that's going to light up the whole parking area or what are you getting um yes they do have something you know just like downward lighting yeah so um when you say when you say construction heads well you get one thing you get these big huge on what, you know, acres. Are you looking, what are you looking?

Yeah, I could pull up the spec sheet, right?

One second, please. Yeah, sure, though.

Hold on a second here.

Now, your location of that, you've got a wooden fence right there, stockade fence. Then you've got the ditch with the stone infiltration and a road. That's going to be partially out in the walkway, roadway, where it's located?

I apologize, the light tower? Yeah. No, it won't encroach on the roadway, no. It won't touch the...

There's enough distance between the fence and that?

Yes, we are, yep. We were going to keep the fence far enough back so that it does not, you know, we obviously can't... There isn't, but... Well, it's 5 feet. Give or take, yeah.

Yeah, oh, the light tower is... The light tower is 5 feet, at least. That's all the light towers are.

I think it's, let me see. I'm going to pull up the dimensions. I'll just give you one second here.

And there's other locations, too, for the... more space on the curve that could be relocated.

Yeah, I noticed that prior to the curve area there is, so I'm just questioning that location where you may want to bring it over to that curve where you have more room. Yeah, that's absolutely.

Just one second.

So if I can, just to go back to the emergency vehicle access, and this is kind of a question for both you, Peter, Commission, and for Alex, you know, considering your concern, and I know it's a compacted gravel pathway that gets you down to the food truck sort of gathering area, would the applicant be amenable to and would the Commission be satisfied if a hammerhead turnaround was provided at that turn?

to allow for vehicles to, you know, to be able to make a turning movement, you know, if the area's... Well, I think it'd be much safer for an ambulance, especially, I think, with vehicles called more than fire, hopefully, but especially for an ambulance, because, I mean, you're looking at 20-foot wide, and then you get up there. If there's people there, there's that food truck there, and everything else.

And that's why I'm wondering if it might satisfy the commission to have a hammerhead turnaround in that location to have an ambulance be able to make that turn.

I'm sorry, I apologize, I missed that. In what location were you?

Right at the 90-degree corner, basically. I'm sorry, say that again? Right near the 90-degree corner you're talking about.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right where the hand is, if you can see that.

Just create a hammerhead turn around there.

We'd be happy to work with emergency services by either turning movements or showing if that's not adequate enough, like a hammerhead, or as a condition of approval.

There are different heads you can get on here that will limit the amount of glow that comes off. You know, the LED ones that are downward shooting. We might want to come up with some different, instead of that. Those are like construction heads that are up there. I can talk to Sunbelt and see what options there are, absolutely.

so one of the things maybe through a condition we can talk about the lighting to make sure that it's both safe and appropriate not over lit is working with the land use department and when you look at uh lighting specs they usually have like a bug which is um back up and then glow and i think in this case what we would be concerned with is the backlighting and you know always the uplighting but to make sure that that's where the residents are so if you find one that maybe has less of that backlighting that can still light this up and work with them yeah and this is

I use this light tower as an example just because that's the one that we used at our previous location. I'm not saying we're set on that one. That's the only one we have access to. We're completely open to using a different unit with different specs, like I said, different heads. We're completely flexible with that.

Now, your hour of operation. Yes. You want your last tour to start at 10.

Correct.

And you say they're going to be out by 1030.

Yes.

And then you guys have to pack up and get out.

So when you say pack up, what do you mean?

Well, you're going to have to get all your crew out, get your drivers gathered up.

So the crew, actually, how it works is the crew is out at the time that the last customers get out. So basically, we have a supervisor that follows the last group of customers through 10 feet behind them. As those customers go through, they literally walk the path. The actors in each scene are relieved at that time. And by the time the customers get out at the end, 90% of our staff is already relieved. staff that are still getting checked out by the time the customers are leaving the exit are in the last scene because we want to get our staff out of there like that and we don't want to make them stick around they want to go home too so we actually have that system in place so that by the time the last group is on their way out the staff is already out the haunt the haunted attraction is pretty much empty of all guests and staff by the time that last group comes out. And then in terms of powering down, we just have to kill the main power of the generator. So the shutdown process is extremely, extremely quick.

As I said previously, I'm more leaning towards liking the fact that your last group would be out by 10 because generally you've seen you know events and stuff 10 o'clock noise stops everybody's done you know goes after that they start dialing the cops so i'm more leaning to say your last one you said that the last run at 10 o'clock isn't... It's slower. It's slower. Slower, yeah. So it doesn't really... They'll just come sooner.

But I sort of don't... I want to just talk about that a little bit because... Your last run is at 9.30. That's a whole half-hour business. You might get people walk in, or people come at 9.45. But they buy tickets.

May I add one thing before we just, this might help the conversation here. So if, now let's look at the busiest nights, right? Where we do expect to be done, you know, closer to 10.30 instead of 10.15, right? Now, if we take on our peak weekend, right, if we take that half-hour time slot and we take all those customers and we spread them out into those previous time slots without that other time slot, we are now trying to jam more capacity into those time slots which aren't designed to accommodate that extra foot traffic. So now we're kind of running into that problem by taking that extra time slot and eliminating it. Now we're trying to jam it into those other ones where you're looking at your 8 o'clock, 8.30, or even your 7.30. We're going to be trying to jam more customers into those, which those are already the packed slots. So I think, I apologize, just if you want to continue, that's kind of where I was going with it too. It would make the overall operation more difficult by doing it that way. And when we say 1030, like I said, that's on the busier nights. On an average night, you're looking at 1015. So that's kind of... Where I am on that. Yeah, first, I apologize.

No, that's okay. I don't think a business closing at 1015 or 1030 is unreasonable, but that's just my opinion. I respect others, too.

Can I just ask one question to help put it in context? Please do. How many nights per year are you operating?

We are operating anywhere from, we usually start the calendar with 14 nights, and then with rain outs, if we have rain, it's 16 nights. Okay.

So how many nights, 14?

14. And then 16 maximum with, you know, if we had to reschedule for rain dates. And that's only Fridays and, Fridays through Sundays. So actually to give you a breakdown of our.

Three nights a week, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

Yep, so the first weekend, which would be our last weekend of September, we only do Saturday. then the first weekend of october only friday saturday no sunday then the remainder of october friday through sunday first weekend of november just friday saturday that's it your other operation was only open in the fall correct Our location, our previous location, Action Wildlife, they did other activities throughout other times of the year. We weren't affiliated with that.

You covered the light thing. The light thing was the most bothersome there.

Yeah, that's easily fixable, yeah.

So I just wanted to say, first of all, I want to say thank you for going through this and getting these plans. I think this really answered a lot of questions that we had and addressed a lot of the concerns with the grading and the drainage. So thank you for doing that. I think this is great. I know that there's still... is there still a question about is this use um permitted under our regulations as recreation and i think you know as an aic planner during the public hearing i just wanted to kind of address that um you know our our uh recreation facility commercial which is public which is allowed in our zone. Athletic, recreational, or physical fitness facilities. We're defining the term recreation with the word recreation, so if you go to the dictionary, it's any activity done for enjoyment, relaxation, or refreshment during leisure time. I think this does clearly fit more into recreation. It's temporary, there's no amusement rides, there's no amusement game type things, similar to what we would see a recreation department do during Halloween or um you know haunted house haunted hayride haunted walk through the woods so in my opinion i feel our regulations and as an interpretation of our regulations it does fall under recreation facility public which is an allowed use in this zone and so i just for the record wanted to to note that And other than that, I think this is a great opportunity for bringing people to our community. They're not there all day. They're there for a short period of time. Hopefully you work with some of the local businesses. So as visitors come, they do patron our business before and after.

We've actually already been in contact with several that are interested in cross-promoting. We've actually had a few Winchester residents already reach out because they saw the public hearings and everything that we're looking for jobs.

so that's you know yeah I think that's great I think that's something for our youth to do I think that's something for our families to do I think it's a great way to highlight and draw people to our community and support our local business and any of the concerns I had I think are addressed with these plans so I want to thank you for that this this area you know that nugget where you're doing the debate is it obviously that's all wooded and or brushed now is it going to be totally clear you're gonna leave

No, so I know you've marked the limits of clearing on there.

Within that area that... Just that? So all that other...

So this dashed gray line is the limits of disturbance. The limits of clearing disturbance.

So everything surrounding it will remain in its natural state.

Woods here in between, of course. Yeah, right.

And that's part of what we don't want to bring heavy commercial development. You know, that's part of, obviously, we looked very closely at the plan of conservation and development, the town regulations, and, you know, we felt as though it fits in very well with that.

So back on the 10 o'clock. Yes. So how about if we, you do 1030, everybody's out, tower light goes off as soon as you can turn it off. Yep.

Can I think on that? Would I be able to get you an answer at another time on that? Or you know what?

The only way you can do that is we continue.

I have some of my team here. Would I be able to consult with them just for a minute? Would that be okay?

Go ahead. Just briefly. Did you take noise-level readings in your past operations? Yes. I recall you did, but what were the levels? Christine is the person that will know that answer.

She has those. Can I consult with them real quick? Yeah, we have them. We have the readings. I can get both of those answers for you in just a second.

There's an ordinance in Winchester.

I think it was pretty low level. Yeah.

Yeah. And then after 10, it's still, I mean, we still make noise, but it's reduced down by 45 DBA versus 62 daytime or something like that.

So as civil one, you guys are okay to oversee the road building and all of that to make sure it's done to its best occasions to support the emergency vehicles and stuff?

We're

Did you walk the property? Or did you have someone from your area walk the property?

I personally did. I did not. But I did not.

I'm glad you did. It would be difficult to walk. Yeah, it's going to be hard. It's rugged.

But our director of engineering, Brian Baker, walked the property, met with DOT, had a site meeting. We did an additional topography. I don't think he was a big fan of it.

Yes, we are okay with it.

10 o'clock on Sunday night.

10 o'clock on Sunday night?

Yep. And then now as far as the decibel readings, I'm sorry.

Yeah. If you'd like. Would that be okay?

Sure.

She was actually the person who did her decibel readings at the decibel meeting.

So I did readings all over the entire property. I did readings at the driveway. I did readings at the property all over the property. At the loudest point, and I'm talking right where it would be considered the loudest area, nothing was over 50. Nothing was over 50. And that was right in the loudest area. It didn't travel far at all, like at the foot of our driveway. You couldn't hear it walking away. I mean, I can't remember off the top of my head. I did not walk far away for it to meet ambient levels of noise. Woods is about 30.

And to add to that as well, as you can see here, the attraction is if you have the scale, if you could see, from where the attraction is to the back end property line from the parking area. So to put this into perspective, where these measurements were taken from Christina at our previous location, the attraction itself at our old location was about 50 feet from the property line at, you know, the neighboring property line at our previous location, extremely close, and that was the reasoning, 50. I'm sorry. Less. I'm sorry. Less. So just to put that in perspective, we have a significant...

It's about over 300 feet from the attraction to the rear property line.

And so the inverse square law also, we've done extensive research on that. I'm going to pull that section up.

The neighbors aren't going to hear people screaming. You couldn't hear anything at the foot of the driveway.

So I'm going to pull up. So we actually did a little bit of study on the inverse square law. So I'm just going to read this section. This is actually right from our full proposal PDF that we submitted for the record. So the property's natural geography and substantial setbacks provide a secondary, highly effective layer of sound insulation. A minimum buffer of, you know, the 300 feet to the property line and then all the way to the nearest residence, which is 1365, if I'm not mistaken. Yep. of dense mature forest exists between any sound source in the nearest residence, providing significant vegetative separation. The forest density is gonna absorb the sound waves through scattering, preventing the low echo effect in what would exist in open terrain. Mathematically, the inverse square law dictates that sound pressure levels decrease by approximately six decibels for every doubling distance from a sound source, given our almost 1,500 foot setback from any residence. Well, the attraction itself would be 1,500 feet from the nearest residence. Any ambient noise, which is already maintained at conversational levels, and again, we have full control of our sound levels. It's not like you just turn on the amplifier. The noise is consistent. You can individually tune each speaker.

You do have full control of yours, but cars entering with radios on or stereos... It's a different story, but yeah.

We'll undergo massive decay before it ever reaches a property line. So if you measure sound at 10 feet and then you measure it at 20 feet, the sound pressure level is going to drop by 6 decibels. That's the inverse square law. So it will then drop another 6 decibels from 20 to 40. So to put this into perspective, food for thought, which we haven't generated sound at this level, but even if you were generating a sound at 80 decibels from a certain point, that would drop to 26 decibels at a distance of 1,500 feet away. That is lower than a whisper. So you wouldn't be able to hear it. And that's not even factoring the ambient noise of the significant buffer of all the wooded property. So it would essentially be nonexistent.

I think I might have mentioned, and if I didn't, I'll mention it again. I actually attended this event when they were at Action Wildlife. He pulled into Action Wildlife, and the parking lot wasn't on the left, and then he walked up to the right to the attraction. And I pulled it away. I actually thought I was at the wrong place because I couldn't see or hear anything. And we got out, and we started walking up, and it really was pretty— And we were in an open field there. Yeah, it really was because I didn't hear any noise at all until we got very close to the actual attraction. Yeah.

Anybody else on the board have any comments or questions?

Yeah, I mean, I'm just... The DOT letter? Yes. So I heard Peter say... So you're going to comply with this in terms of the... Absolutely, yeah. We have to. I know. Yeah, we have to. But he mentioned 20 feet, and this is 22. So...

it's 22 feet in the right of way and then you got it yeah yeah and aaron steves um who's the uh special services manager for district four um you know we he came out and did a site walk with us you know with when uh you know our engineers came out and yeah so we're also everything on the torrington area health district letter what's that

Everything on the Torrington Health District letter, you're going to take down.

That's all dialed in. And we actually already have what they require as an addition application. Basically, we're now using the property. We actually already have that in hand. And that's on the record as well on the portal. We already have our addition application from them approved.

Anybody in the audience have any questions?

Thank you. We're going to migrate. We're going to clear the table for you here.

Now they can sit around here. All right, because I've got dumb questions. My name is Tyler Asbury, 233 Colebrook. And this curve in the road up here, I think I'm familiar with that, but I could be not thinking in the right place. Which one were you? This one kind of like right up there. Oh, the one that is, the white one. Okay, yeah, yeah. I'm wondering how much of a blind curve that is for people who are coming... 55 would be a low rate of speed coming down 44, right?

Oh, that's not 44. Oh, what is that? That's the access road for the cell tower. Oh, for the cell tower.

Oh, it goes up on top of the hill for the cell tower. Yeah, that's on top of the hill. So where's 44 here?

If you look at her map, it shows it better. It comes out where the existing driveway is now for the cell tower, directly across from the dam.

And this is the existing? Oh, from Danford?

No, see where the dam is? That's a dry dam. Directly across it is the access road for the cell tower presently.

So my biggest concerns, and I'll step out of the road here. My biggest concerns in this would be people control. Because since I'm living kind of on the other side of the brook on that, and I'm anticipating you've got people who are enjoying themselves and a six foot fence won't stop any good six year old who would work their soul, you know. I'm just wondering how many people are gonna make it down across the brook to my property and start wandering around, and I'm going to have to chase them out of there. Totally understand. Or what's happening with that? How do you do crowd control?

Would you mind if I step up and address that? Go for it. All right, perfect. So we have a licensed security team on site at all times.

Oh, yeah.

So we have a licensed security team on premises at all times. They're all, you know, they have their blue cards, you know, licensed through the Connecticut State Police. So I'll give you the rundown from what happens from the second a guest arrives to when they leave, how they're monitored, and how they're controlled. So they pull into our driveway. They're met by a parking attendant right here. The parking attendant will then direct them to one of the roads That parking attendant will then point them down that row to a third parking attendant who will physically be standing in front of the space with glow-in-the-dark wands, put them right into the space. Then they get out and they say, thank you for coming tonight. They then direct them straight over to here where we will have our security wanding table. So our security staff will have metal detector wands that every guest who enters the premises will be wanded before they enter the attraction. system for the past four years. And so they are literally being watched at one, two, three points from when they get out to their car, straight to security. So there's no way for them to just wander off. We have eyes everywhere in that vicinity. And of course, with the security wand and cable being here, they have a direct line of sight to the property line if anyone were to try to make their way over. And in four years of operation, we haven't had any customers that have had any interest in going in. And they're not going to want to go wander off into the woods. We've never experienced that issue. So then when they come from security, they go to the entertainment area, or the food truck area, I should say, where we have security monitoring as well. We have our ticket booth staff. We have supervisors roaming the premises at all times. We all have two-way radios on us at all times in contact with security, with the ticket booth staff, with the parking staff. So we're all on a direct line of communication. So then they'll enter the queue into the attraction. Throughout the attraction, we have 30 live actors. We have scene supervisors who each cover one section of the attraction while in-character blending right into the attraction with radios. We're all in contact. Now, we also have security. attraction, queue, and food truck area. So there's a very, very well-established perimeter at all times.

And that sounds like more information that I wanted to hear. Yes. How they're trying to keep people from either tumbling to their deaths over that terrain or coming down into any other of the weird stuff that we encounter because it is

us to to make sure that we keep our you know our clientele safe have a good experience we don't want them wandering off so how do you how do you make them happy and say bye-bye at the very end yes if they're there like for another 30 minutes waiting for grandma and they're bored out of their skulls what's keeping them from jumping that six-foot fence so same thing they'll come out you know we have our parking status well now part of the parking staff's responsibility is is to monitor guests leaving, guests coming in, because they need to communicate, hey, we just had three spots open up in row C. So now they have to watch those guests coming out. So because if they're not paying attention to the guests coming out, they're not going to be ready to communicate to parking staff member A, who's going to be funneling them, which row do I send the next one to? It's all line of communication. We have to watch them come out.

I think that's the majority of my questions right there. Excellent. Thank you. What's the total number of security people you'll have on? Security? Yeah, it depends on the night.

Anywhere from three to four. Okay. And total staff? Total staff, I want to say 30. I know it.

Maybe more, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, 30 actors. We have our ticket booth. So I want to say, what, probably 40.

At any given time?

Yeah, to answer his question. How many people you have for staff?

Yeah, between security and, you know, other staff, probably 40.

Any questions?

Yeah, I feel like we haven't touched on the trash.

Would you like to say? No.

OK. We haven't really touched on trash. And I've been at a lot of rural construction sites where there's dumpsters. It's just people lunch to read whatever pieces of paper. Do you have a plan for making sure there's no bears and raccoons or not just going in that dumpster?

I want to make sure. Okay. Okay. Can you talk about trash? Please do. Can you answer that? I can. Yes. I was going to share with the gentleman in the back.

Oh, I'm sorry. He's the trash guy. On top of his statement with people hanging out in the parking lots, myself, Alex, we're always the last two to leave the premises, I should say. That way, A, we're walking the parking lot picking up trash. B, we're physically kicking people out off the property, saying we've got to go. And that's about it. And trash leaves in both of our trucks 90% of the time.

So to add the record, please. Nate. Tim. Tim. Full name.

Timothy Burby. B-U-R-B-Y. OK, thank you.

So you don't have a trash collector? How do you dispose of your trash?

So in the comment with Torrington Area Health, did you see the comment from Torrington Area Health? Yeah. So we have trash receptacles, 55-gallon garbage cans spaced from parking all the way to the security table, the food truck area, line of the attraction. We have them everywhere. So each night what we will do is we will go and collect those, Tim and I, and we'll have a dumpster on site, and they will go into that dumpster. And then per recommendation from Torrington Area Health District, they've recommended that we have a contract during, you know, our season of operation with a trash removal, waste removal company to, you know, empty out that dumpster, which, you know, we are completely, you know, 100% open to.

That dumpster has a lid of some kind?

Yep, it would have a lid and a lock. Yes, a lid and a lock, yep.

It would be empty how often?

So after each weekend.

After each weekend. Yes, after, yep.

And if now, if there is an excess of trash, which again, to put this into perspective, the only source that's really generating trash is the food truck. right you know our our garbage can in the queue our garbage can in the uh parking area by the security table by the end of the weekend there may be a quarter full the one next to the food truck obviously you're going to have more there that's the one that we are you know emptying and you know putting new liners in the most um so i don't see even by the end of a weekend this dumpster getting anywhere near full it just won't it won't be the case But we also have our waste management plan submitted for the record as well. That goes into even further detail of how we, the locations of those receptacles, how we monitor them.

That's okay. I think you need to make sure that you have a fair proof. Not one with a plastic lid that they can rip apart, of course, because you're going to be a bear attraction.

Understood.

Besides just being a haunted house, you're going to be a bear attraction. The bear is going to take their garbage to your neighbors. Through the woods. Through the woods.

So we've talked a lot about light and sound. I'm not going to repeat. We do feel that it's unrealistic to think that we won't be impacted.

in October when the leaves are down.

Our house sits at 190 and their parking and amusement is at 950-ish, 940, 950. So we're looking down across a leafless valley. So we do strongly feel that we will be Seeing this and also I just don't have any We have neighbors two doors down I'd say off the top of my head probably 1500 feet they have gatherings We have no problem with that, but we hear every word they say Like it's not like we can't hear that they're there and there's plenty of trees between we can't see their house we can't see the light from their house, but we can hear when they have a 10 friends over. So it's not so much the amusement and displays themselves that we're concerned about.

It's 1,000 people being in the woods each night.

That's our real concern. We have no problem with what you guys are going to do from an artistic perspective and the things you can control, but it feels a little naive to assume that a thousand humans a night are gonna always behave well, be quiet. No one's car needs a muffler. There's a steady, you have a time sequence and there's literally cars coming in every 15 minutes, half an hour. Like it's a steady flow of headlights coming from 44 down I don't know what it is. That I think is our perspective. It's impossible to say that we will not be impacted by that, that we won't notice it. So sound and light. We're also concerned about forest fires. I mean, I think everyone in the room is probably aware that it burned in Canaan, it burned in Barrington, it burned in Washington, it burned in Berlin. All of those are happening at droughty end of season time. Exactly. Those are in high season drought. Yeah. And, you know, we have a lot of dead standing ash. Now we have a lot of dead standing beach. It is really a rising concern in the state and inserting a diesel generator and diesel lighting and how many cars in a night, how many humans in a night into the middle of a wooded area that's never been controlled. You know, in preserved land, they actually control the fire. they harvest accordingly, timber control. That hasn't been done in any of these, your 63 acres, our seven acres, the adjoining state, it's a lot of time. Can I add something to that?

So obviously before opening, Each season, the fire department comes and does a full walk and inspection of the entire premises. There are regulations for how far the generator needs to be placed from any type of structure, any type of brush, any type of vegetation, the diesel light tower, even how far the generator would need to be that portable one that a food truck would bring. So all of that is inspected. prior to opening. Now, also, we have codes, you know, for the attraction adherence. That's why we have fire extinguishers every 75 feet.

So is there a fire extinguisher? I mean, what happens if the spark goes in the woods and it's a windy night?

We have fire extinguishers every 75 feet.

A fire extinguisher is not going to control the fire. This site will be... The fire marshal will come and inspect the site and improve the site. If they think that the generator's in the wrong location, they'll do some mitigation. We've already talked before about expanding the cleared area around there. I think you've got a bigger walkway now around. I do. So I think the fire issue is probably not that much more than if a house was there having a campfire. Now, there's other issues, but I think the fire issue is just probably not much more than that.

So I think our biggest concern is expansion of this commercial venture in a rural residential zone. And I know that you guys have said that there will be annual meetings, and I think we'd like more information on what that looks like. So does that mean that before they can take on more patrons, they have to ask? Or does that mean that, oh, great, we had an extra 500 people six nights.

The permanent last is going to be limited in size. Is that something to say?

No, just that any sort of revision to a permit needs to come back to this commission, if I'm correct.

Does that include other events?

Like if all of a sudden he wants to do a Christmas thing in the same facility, Is that something that requires a second special permit?

I can speak to that, Mr. Jackson. Go ahead. So a special permit is for a specific use in this case it's going to be specific to this use this configuration of the site and for essentially the number of days that we're being told so we're being told 14 to 16 days in a year we're going to require it's it's a i have a whole host of conditions to propose to you guys later on uh one of the things that i'm going to propose to the commission is that annually they come to the staff and get a zoning permit so that annually before they open We'll verify that any modifications to the configuration or walkthrough itself sort of fits within what's been approved by the commission. There's no changes to the site with regard to parking. We'll get the fire chief involved, the fire marshal, the police chief, all the entities that need to be involved. We'll have that kind of annual review, not to the commission, but to the staff members. and if we see an adjustment or if you know if alex the group in the future says well all right we think we're going to get a little bit bigger we're going to expand the walk-through area so therefore we're going to expand the parking area that comes back to the commission we can't approve that If Alex in the group says, hey, we got the 63 acres and we want to do X, Y, and Z on part of it, or we want to use this portion for a Christmas thing, that comes back to the commission. Because it's outside the scope of what's being approved. Or what's being asked for. Special permits, just for anybody that's out there, special permits are very specific. And once you step outside that box, it comes back to the commission. So any change of use? Yeah. And any... Yeah, it would be a modification to that permit, and any major, you know, any significant changes to that plan need to come back as well. Minor stuff, you know, they're going to reorient the walkthrough.

Turn a wall here if that's there. Yeah, that's all kind of minor stuff.

But, you know, the parking lot gets bigger, you know, that area expands, any of those bigger things will come back.

Anybody else got any questions, comments?

I got one Alex on the gate. That's at the end of the state property. Yes. Is that going to remain or will that be, will that be moved up to the access road further?

Nope. That's going to remain. Um, it's just going to be widened by we're going to, yeah, we're going to keep it in place.

That gate will still remain.

That will remain. And then we're going to put, Oh, I'm sorry.

No, no, no, no. It's on the site plan, too.

And then where the added, where the road that we will be adding in begins, we're actually going to put a temporary, like, construction-style barrier with cones and, you know, so they don't go up the cell tower road.

Yep, okay. Just wondered if that was going to stay or not. I didn't see it on the print.

My other question, I don't know how relevant it is, but in the written... you said it was 1.2 acres that were going to be cleared. Is that really the case for all of what we're looking at, the road work, the rebranding, the infiltration?

We have a construction sequence and the general principles of erosion control on our last page. I should typically have it. I don't have it here, but if you want, I can give you a rough estimate. Give me a few minutes.

this time yeah yeah yeah so 10 o'clock is the last time slot i don't know what that means so actually the lights are out yeah so at the very latest at the very latest it would be 10 30. at the latest everything everything how long is the circuit through through the display and then it only takes people five minutes to walk back and forth and get in their car and leave. You just walk through after, because that seems very quick.

No, no. So we, so as I explained before, our supervisor follows the last group through. So as that last group is going through, we have a supervisor relieving the staff along the way, literally 10 feet from where I am. Yeah. So once that last group is out, we could power off the lights of the attraction.

But if it's 25 minutes from when it starts.

where they're going, blah, blah, blah.

It's an amusement, it's recreation.

It's about five minutes to get from, you know, from once they come out of the queue to the...

So realistically, maybe more than 45 minutes after the last ticket is sold?

No, I'm gonna say 10.30. Yeah, 10.30, I mean, you know, we have, you know, Christine and Tim would be able to vouch. We, you know, had, you know, 10.30, you know. 10.30, okay.

And on Sundays, 10 o'clock. And on Sundays, 10 o'clock.

We just want a hard definitive, not like how long you do your thing is not my concern, but if you tell me 10.30 and then you're done, then at 10.30.

Oh, yeah. We've discussed that already. Yep, yep.

I can imagine this area that you flattened and now made nice with all the gravel and stuff being very attractive to the hunters and the homeless dudes and whoever else come next June. What's keeping that from becoming kind of a quasi-territorial encampment for people passing through? Oh, yeah.

Obviously, we'll have security cameras on site at all times that detect motion the second something even happens there. Including next June? I'm sorry? Including next June? Wait.

Like you guys are now offsite. All there is, is this big fabulous parking lot.

And we don't, we haven't touched the property yet.

Right. Stop this from being a homeless encampment.

Oh, I see. Yeah.

So, yeah.

Oh yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. So we're there. We are there constantly. So even though, you know, we don't operate outside of the fall season, you know, I'm in and out at least, you know, at least two to three days a week throughout the off-season, making adjustments, you know, checking it, even during the winter, you know, in the off months when we're not able to do... I'm going there, checking to make sure there's no damage, you know, from snowstorms, whatnot. We constantly have foot traffic, whether it's myself, my staff, on and off the premises at all times. We'll have security cameras as well.

And that gate will still be up on the... Of course.

Gates.

Well, I mean, that's a gate also for the cell tower area.

I mean, it's not a... And that's actually another person to go right through there.

Oh, if they walk up through there? Well, they're trespassing.

Yeah, I mean, these people own that property. And the cell company, too, is out there, you know, periodically, too, going up and down for maintenance for the tower. I'm sure they're on a very strict maintenance schedule on the cell tower, too.

Yeah. I did a rough calculation of 1.5 acres, so give me 10 to 15%, but out of 65 acres. That's what we're clearing. And did you guys explore?

It's like 35 feet from a residential property.

Topography-wise, this is the ideal location.

So it's cheaper to do it here.

But they're staying, the setbacks are what, 45 feet, I think?

35. 35?

Yeah.

They are exactly at the setback. Yeah, they're at the setback. As legally, they have to be. Yeah, right. Yes. But it's not like, there's no buffer. There's nowhere for that to go to get bigger. It's tight. And it's a big property, so I just wanted to see it.

You have the fence for the buffer on the parking area. And six-foot-high fence.

Yeah, which means you can just walk right around. You have to take a pee.

Oh, okay.

You know, it's nice.

She's got a question there. That wasn't on your site plan. Where are your facilities going to be?

Yeah, so they're going to be in the food truck area, yes. In the food truck area? Yep, see those two blue sheds, the 8 by 10 sheds, within the vicinity of those blue sheds in that area, in the food truck area.

And that's where the portal pots will be?

Correct, and a portable hand wash station as well.

OK, so they'll be off the pathway and off the radius. They won't be in the radius itself.

And same thing with the sheds as well.

I noticed the sheds there. Yes.

So I know I've said a lot, and I'm not going to say more. I would like to submit this. This is some of our thoughts. And say that we don't support this at all. And we're considering appealing, certainly, if you guys approve it. And we hire an intent attorney. And we don't think that... in reading the code about what is allowed. And it's not our decision, obviously. Yeah, it's up to you guys. But we don't think that this entertainment meets those codes.

So do you want to submit those to us? Or you want to read them?

No, they're too long. Okay.

So you have multiple copies? You have multiple copies?

I have one copy of each. One copy of each.

I can make more. Y'all want individual copies? Yeah. Thank you.

We appreciate you. Just send them, email them to us. I can email them to you guys.

I would have emailed them, but I don't know who to email.

If you don't need them right now, then we'll just take it for the record.

Well, we might need them if we're going to vote on it tonight. We're going

Well, do we need to wait for the other reviews? Who said it? You?

We have not received any additional comment from the fire chief at this point. If you want us to solicit comment from him, we'll get it. Yes.

And the police chief, especially the fire chief.

The police chief has been hard to get comments out of, but we'll do our best.

He is a town employee. I'm sorry, go ahead.

I'm sure our applicant would be perfectly happy to make that a condition of approval of continued coordination and submitting, you know, approval letters and any back and forth with commissions.

And we can do it that way, too, if you want to do a condition of approval.

How many days have we got left for the public hearing? It's in your packet. Yes, I thought it was. I got to look it up.

I don't remember. So your 35 days ended June 1st. We got an extension request from the applicant, which got us to tonight. So there's 43 days available of extensions, but that has to come from the applicant to keep you here.

But as of right now, we're at the deadline without an extension.

Now, you have 65 days once the hearing closes to make a decision, so you've got plenty of time to make a decision. We talked about that a couple of days ago.

And I think I would be comfortable closing the public hearing if, you know, I think, you know, some of the comments from the fire chief might be relatively minor and we can address those through a condition. Because we've already talked about some of them during the public hearing. And you stated that you have talked to the fire.

So I actually, yes, I spoke to both the fire marshal and the fire chief. And the way that they explained it to me was that anything that they submit right now is purely recommendation, as they cannot officially sign off on something until the site walk is done prior to opening. What you would see from them is pretty similar to what was already on the previous.

Did you talk to the police chief? I did.

And so actually Chief Siussi told me he has nothing further to say about it. It's all up to the commission. So I asked him for additional comment in the past, and he said, you know, he goes, I don't see a need for anything else. So basically he wants it to be in the commission's hands on his end. But, yeah, that's kind of where they are on that.

Okay, yeah. But I think if we close the public hearing, maybe had some time to read through the material that was submitted, spend some time maybe having staff draft a motion, we can look at it at the next meeting for decision.

So you had a bunch of stuff from the draft motion?

Yeah, I have. Well, I have a bunch of conditions that I put together before tonight, and as we were going through the conversation, I can pull those up on the screen if you're interested in seeing.

Well, we can still discuss this.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think it makes sense to discuss conditions while we have the public hearing on.

The public hearing's talking now. I'm going to zoom in for you.

I'll read these out.

You're going to send me these as well? Yeah.

Most of them you've already got, but some of them... Oh, from the staff review letter.

Okay.

Number one, applicant shall submit an application for a zoning permit on an annual basis on or around June 1st. Any and all changes should be noted on a revised site plan indicating the new layout of the walk-through area and other site changes. Number two, significant changes to the site as determined by the zoning enforcement officer are subject to review by the Planning and Zoning Commission and may require modification of the special permit. Number three, fire marshal and building officials shall review the site plan on an annual basis as required. The applicant shall submit any necessary permit applications. Number four, a pre-event site walkthrough shall be conducted annually with fire marshal, building official, police chief, fire chief, and any other authority having jurisdiction annually prior to opening for the season. Number five, the emergency vehicle access point shall be reviewed on site by the fire chief and police chief. Any changes requested by either shall be made and approved by staff prior to opening each season. Number six, applicants shall be responsible for maintaining site distances for the access drive at Route 44 by trimming brush or other remedies as may be needed from time to time. I think we've determined that that's not necessary right now, but it might be needed in the future.

And that's also been discussed with DOT already.

The event shall conclude and the site shall be closed no later than 10.30 p.m. on Fridays and Saturdays and 10.00 p.m. on Sundays. A fence shall be installed along the north side of the parking lot at sufficient height to block any headlight glare from entering neighboring properties along Coe Street subject to approval by CEO. This was a condition that I had prior to the new site plan coming in. We could probably eliminate that condition because it's shown on the site plan.

But what if the six foot isn't high enough?

in other words they'll do a traffic yeah i was going to request uh like an as-built verification that there's no light trespass that that certification when it's completed should be given to town hall staff yep okay so so let's let me let me get through these and then we'll go back to it um erosion sedimentation control bond related to the access road and parking lot construction is to be submitted at a time of gesture prior to the start of construction and amount to be determined by town staff Engineer record shall certify that the road-related construction has been completed to specifications prior to the beginning of operation. A hammerhead turnaround shall be created at the south end of the pedestrian access path to allow for emergency vehicle turnaround. Any and all light towers shall not be extended to be higher than 16 feet above grade. Light towers to be used shall be reviewed and approved by the CEO to ensure compliance with the zoning regulations each year during the annual review. Decibel readings shall be taken and provided to the town of the event area prior to operation on an annual basis. And this is Alex and I have had this conversation about running the thing sort of with all the sound effects on getting decibel readings before it opens annually. That should be at the property line. It can be at the property line if that's where you want it to be. I think that would make the most sense.

There's a noise ordinance, and it's 45 for night time, 55 day. It's measured one foot beyond the property line. So it's all written down. We don't have to do anything.

So one extra thing about the noise. Thanks. Let's get a noise decibel reading up there, pre-construction, at a normal time, like with traffic and everything going by, so you know now what your base noise level is.

I suspect the largest... The highest source of noise is going to be a truck coming down a hill hitting the jank break. Oh, yeah.

When the jank break comes on. I can hear him up on 44.

Yeah. So get a base noise level so you know what you're dealing with now. That's for you.

Where do you want that taken on the property? Go ahead. May I just? I know. I'm sorry. This is.

No, that's why we're doing this.

Okay, can we do just in compliance with town ordinance? So we're held to the same requirements as... And the ordinance can change, right?

Beware.

I think we're comfortable with that.

Can I make a statement, please? All right, go ahead.

It's only part of the picture if you do that before the actual event because the traffic...

where there's noise and people talking and an exciting conversation is definitely going to contribute to the problem.

Right, but if you get a base noise level now, you'll know what was there before we started.

And at those times of day, because we were just remarking this weekend how

just to add a little bit to when you're talking about decibel readings pre-construction versus pre-operation right or different because there's different like the site conditions will impact so the idea is to get a baseline of where we are today

And then once construction is complete and they're ready to get open for the season, do it with the event sort of running with no people to get that baseline of, okay, where are we with the event sort of operational but no people in there? So that if we get a complaint, we can, you know, and we can have them go out there, put their decibel readings out on a Saturday night when they're super busy, and they can come back at whatever that decibel reading is, and we can say, okay, you're

way above where you worry what you know you're at or whatever it is baseline I just want to make sure that like we're not this try to say is if the noise level from 44 yeah exceeds the noise level you're supposed to be creating then You can't control, you can't bring your noise level down low enough to get what you can't control.

I understand what you're saying. I just, I want to make sure, because this is going to be at the legal document that we're not putting us against match existing conditions, noise conditions exceeding what you're creating. you can't do anything right exactly you can't lower yours enough to get below 44. right now exactly i understand but like you know sites can be developed that doesn't mean that any sites can't contribute noise right right right okay so we're on the same page

Well, you know, 44 can be noisy.

Yes.

When the trailer trucks come into town, especially when the speed limit's going, speed camera's going to affect it.

They're going to be hitting that jig brake hard. Oh, really? Let's go.

And then just one comment about comment 11. If it is okay with the commission, I'd like to show that we can provide emergency access turnaround vehicle for an ambulance using a program that we generate. So we'll determine if a hammerhead is necessary.

Okay, so I'll add if needed.

If that's okay with you.

Let me just read the last couple of these.

So I think I would just say if determined needed for emergency services. You know, not just if needed is for emergency.

I think that hammerhead should be there regardless.

Well, if their turning radius shows that it can fit, though, I would say what we would probably be looking for is park the food truck in that radius, park all your other stuff in there, and then run that calculation and see if it can be turned around.

And we can keep everything, Peter, if you don't mind, everything in the food truck area, we could keep outside that, you know, perimeter if you'd like. Any food truck, any shed, any portal, you know, anything we could keep on the outside. There's a safety issue, so. Yeah. There was one question I had for number five.

I don't know about that.

On that light tower, the one you have with the light tower with the lighting, that should possibly be with either down-facing lights or some type of shield. Because I do make a shield for the top to keep it up out of the sky.

Yeah, I think that's, well, this is sort of a catch-all, right, is to get the spec to the CEO for review to make sure that it's compliant with the regs. So, I mean, we can add that specificity, but I think it's just got to be part of the zoning permit that, okay, this is the tower we're using, and here's the heads that we're putting on it, and it's got to be reviewed and approved by staff. So we're sitting here, why? Not comfortable with that?

Why are we sitting here then?

I mean, I'm just saying.

We're putting it all on one person, and if they hire a new zoning enforcement officer or someone part-time, what experience do they have? And that person may be inspecting it. We're the ones...

doing the regulations. Which has happened. Which has happened.

Well, it does. This is Winston.

I've been here too many years. You always have that potential. But you created the regulations. And so the idea here is that they're reviewing it to ensure that they're compliant with the regulations that you've already set. So we can add it. That's fine.

But we're also setting conditions. You are.

I'm curious about the decibel levels. Who takes those measurements?

The what?

The decibel levels, like who?

That's in the town ordinance.

No, I mean, I just don't know the technology, but do these guys just go and take them and report them to you, or does someone come out from the town and measure those things?

Well, to make it official, it probably has to be done by the engineering services. if they have a decibel company or a person that can go do it. So we have a, you know, you have somebody that can do that?

I mean, I think we would handle that just like any other noise complaint. You know, we're asking them to submit it to us for compliance. And if they're, you know, there's complaints.

What I'm trying to avoid is 44 creating more noise than they are.

No, I understand that, but I think to say now we want them to hire an engineering company. At some point, we're a town. We deal with noise complaints all the time. They have to submit to us their decimal levels. If they're not correct or we get complaints, we'll handle it like any other noise complaint that we do. I think we want to make sure that you're operating under certain levels that we have, you know, that baseline, because I think that's a very valid point, but if, you know, you think that the decibel levels are wrong and that it's too noisy, you can call town hall just like you would, and anybody else would make a complaint and we'll address it.

It's actually because it's a noise ordinance, it's a police matter, but it's not even a zoning enforcement matter.

So I don't think we should try to get into that enforcement. I just think they have to be a client.

That's the advantage to having a noise ordinance in town. So many towns don't have them, so it's a police matter.

Because when there's issues at the lake, the police have to enforce it.

And shut down if it's too loud. Yeah.

I'm just curious, like, so does the police have a decibel? I just don't know any of that.

Yeah, I assume they do. I mean, I've had one. As a zoning enforcement officer, I've dealt with this issue in the past, and we had applications that came in, and we had neighbors that were very concerned, and they had a decibel reading tool, and I would go down and check on it, and 99% of the time, there was never an issue. Yeah.

Actually, in that case, it was like 100% of the time. I wouldn't trust the phone one, but...

I was actually number four. You know, I think... I think this is good. But what I want to be careful of, and I don't know the right wording, you know, I don't want... I mean, that's a lot of town resources and staff, right? So it's them or their appointee or if they don't feel they need to go in 10 years because they've been doing this, right? I don't want them not to be able to open. I think we need to schedule the event, make sure that we have any walkthrough and any official who wishes to attend. you know, is allowed to, right? It's not that we have to tell the police chief. We're not here sitting telling the police chief how he has to spend his day and what he has to do.

Right, like... Because they have to do this with all the camps before they can open in the summer. They have to do it with other...

Some of that is like state statute stuff. It's not the Planning and Zoning Commission telling them... right like if they feel they need to do that they we want that opportunity we want to schedule a walkthrough but it should be under conditions and any official who feels you know wants to attend has the ability to do the priest do you want to just say town staff and then that's sort of broad enough to include all of those individuals

Yeah, I mean, like...

However, that's what I'm saying. I think if you had some time to think about... Yeah, yeah. Because I don't think it's up to us to be telling the fire chief and the fire marshal what they have to do.

Right, right, right, right.

And when I spoke to, you know, Chief Field and, you know, Mr. Lagasse, they mentioned something that, hey, maybe we could do, like, a joint site walk with, you know, the ambulance, with, you know, the building official, with the fire department. Hold up.

That's what I would envision, right? You do a site walk, everybody shows up and does it. If we've done it for 10 years and there's no issues, I don't want you not to be able to open because the fire marshal doesn't want to walk through.

But I foresee this way out not being the same in 10 years.

Well, but then I'd like to see the fire marshal. Yes, right.

That's what I'm saying. That's why I think the walkthrough is good.

I think the walkthrough is good.

You'll be rebuilding probably every year. Yeah.

I mean, in our industry, that's standard. You know, fire marshals, every year there's an inspection. It's standard.

Town staff and emergency services personnel. Personnel, yep. As needed. Yeah. Okay, I'll play with that language a little bit. I get where you're coming from, Russ. It's kind of like, you're right, this is a lot of people that are in the condition, and what happens if the police chief decides, I can't go? We've been there 15 times because it's year 15, and I don't need to walk that side.

Which is the thing. I mean, I know haunted attractions where they've been in their locations for, like you said, 10, 15 years, where the town just knows at that point, yeah, you know what you're doing. Yeah, yeah, okay. However you guys want to handle that, that's fine.

There was comment about the fence earlier, so I wanted to go back to you.

I was going to wait, but... Well, I think nobody else did, so... A fence should be installed. I think the point of the fence is to block the light, so light trespass. And so it looks to be that the plan, if built a plan, it should work, right? barring any surprises, I think there should be as-built verification that there is no light trespass. And should we consider them, consider allowing them to install a fence higher than six feet now Okay, can we let them install a fence up to eight feet? You know, is what I was considering, just to make sure.

It says at sufficient height to block.

Well, I know over six feet, you've got to get a permit, right? Yeah, yeah. So as part of this permit, let's allow them to build up to a certain height.

You gotta ensure that there's no light. I mean. Yeah. With the fence installed up there. Do you remember that was eight feet? I believe eight feet.

Yeah. They had to get a building permit for that.

I'm just saying they, they went eight feet with that fence. Yeah. And it's pretty successful. It was very successful. Let's stop the problem with the lights with the neighbors. So yeah.

Question back there.

So go back on the fence or head of the fence. What if we do 20 foot Arbor righties along the fence stops. Any light protruding through the fence?

Yeah, we could do it for everybody.

It takes time to establish.

So, I mean, the other thing, and I think that it's... I think that it's very important that we don't shine headlights in people's houses, right? I think the idea that nobody's gonna see any light from this, is unrealistic. This is a privately owned piece of property that's gonna have some development on it. Whether it's a house or a elderly house complex or an apartment building, there's gonna be some light. I don't think we're gonna shield, it's gonna be different, right? This is a private piece of property going up for some sort of development. You're gonna see something. Our job is to make sure we're protecting the public health, safety, and welfare. We don't want, you know, significant noise. We don't want spotlights shining in people's windows. We don't want, you know, there are certain things we're trying to protect here, but to think that they're not going to see any light, I think, would be unrealistic. And, you know, so where that corner is is almost 2,000 feet away from their house. So... I think some fencing, we could allow for an eight-foot fence if they thought it was needed once they got there. I think maybe some landscaping. But 2,000 feet is kind of a... I don't know exactly if it's 2,000 feet there, but it's 1,300 to the edge of the parking lot.

I think it's...

I don't know. I mean, I think that we want to...

So, Jeremy, the gentleman in the back asked about arborvitaes. Could they plant arborvitaes in the 35-foot setback area?

The 35-foot setback area refers to buildings. They could do their parking area. They could do the roadway within the 35-foot setback area. So, yeah, they could plant. Absolutely, yeah.

right but he's talking about 20 foot ones right right but kind of hard to get 10 footers plan what I was just going to suggest is maybe never mind never mind I can say

I think with the distance away from the nearest development, a river, the topography, there is a significant buffer between our development because I call everything but and the next residential I think when we're really talking about exactly to everyone's point doing anything in the woods if you had a bonfire in the woods you're gonna have like trespass developments just being there is gonna cause noise, gonna cause light. And I just don't see how, I think the fence is gonna work better than eight foot arborvitae that are planted every 10 feet.

Even when you're driving your car on a highway, you think about how far your headlights illuminate in front of you. You're not looking at 2,000 feet. You're looking at more like 300 to 500 feet at tops with high beams. I think illuminating a residence at 2,000 feet away, like Megan had mentioned, I don't I don't see that being a concern.

So do we get to the end of your list there?

Oh, I don't know. We got the decibel readings. Okay, copy of the approval from Condot for the use of the driveway shall be submitted to the town and a bear-resistant dumpster shall be provided for trash collection.

But to Adam's point, I think if we wanted to put, so they don't, if they determine that an eight-foot fence is needed or they want to put up an eight-foot fence, I wouldn't be opposed to it, right? So what I think you're saying is in this condition, put an eight-foot fence would be allowed if needed, right? So instead of having them come back for another public hearing.

And I think it says of sufficient height right now. It does. It does. I think that's what you have written there. And the other thing that I'll add is, and it's just for your consideration, but we've been through this before with other applications where we talk about fencing and existing vegetation to block headlights and things on development sites. I'm just going through it again tonight to sort of check myself. There's nothing in here that sort of requires a vegetated buffer of any specific width for many of our uses. In this case, the applicant is showing, essentially, it's going to be a little bit less than 35 feet, probably a 30-ish foot existing vegetated buffer that exists on that property line. they're already they're exceeding any kind of requirements that we have right now so just again consideration yeah so sufficient height i think that would allow them to go to eight feet if they if they felt that eight feet i mean yeah that would just i don't even know if it i'd have to look i'm not sure there is i would just make it clear that they don't have to come back for a special exception if a higher fence is needed

Just the building permit. I was going to say, would we have to go through a building deposit for that?

Zoning permit after, I think it's eight feet for zoning in buildings. Okay. Got it. Higher than six feet? Yeah. Got it. Higher than, I think it's seven now. They changed the building a couple of years ago. Got it.

Yeah, I have just a couple things to add to that for you can discuss it You had about the renewal of zoning permit yearly. Yeah And it'll be operationally limited to maximum of 16 days per year unless revised She's looking at the list. No, no, I'm sorry. You're tired. I can tell.

Yeah, we're 12 hours in.

We're fine.

Long day.

12, that's it? Come on. Yeah, you're right.

She's pregnant, too. That's like 14 hours. Okay, that one there. As far as the roadway, it should... A minimum of 22 feet wide from the state road all the way to the food truck area.

Our site plans show 22 foot wide from the right of way, but we have to go down to 20 feet. Why? Because of the break in the non-access easement.

The break well?

So this is a DOT?

Yeah.

So there is a 20-foot break that DOT allows us to access our property. No more than 20 feet.

That's not in their letter. No. It says, no.

That's around District 4.

We're saying 22 feet.

So in the email correspondence with Property Management Division, she does specify that we have a 20-foot, which I submitted prior to our first public hearing. It's in the portal. The email does specify a 20-foot break in the non-access from Property Management Division of DOC.

Right, but we can specify 22 feet. You cannot. On your property. Why?

Because they won't give it to us.

Well, then for 10 feet of it, it's 20 feet, and the rest is 22 feet on the rest of your property. the state can't dictate on your property what they actually can't not the whole not the whole road they can't act they have specified because of this special roadway that we cannot build the driveway in any other location no you can't build in any other location correct i would like to see that in writing from d.o.t before we give any approvals that you cannot expand to 22 feet the whole roadway

Some of our town roads aren't 22 feet. I mean, some of our side roads are 20 feet. You know, I think, I don't know. That's just a lot more cost.

You're talking 120 cars.

I know, but what is our...

In and out, and you're also talking ambulance as possible, police car as possible, and a fire truck or two. I think that's what I'm looking for.

I think you should factor speed into that, too, though. I mean, residential streets, most of them are at the 20 or 22.

Look at the steepness of the grade. You're talking almost a 15% grade for a major portion of that going down to the parking lot.

May I add as well that a big part of my discussion with the fire marshal and the fire chief was specifically mentioning the 20-foot width of that. you know, driveway and making sure that was sufficient. And went over that multiple times. They didn't have any concern. They were, you know, and actually, Jeremy, I know we spoke about it with Mr. Lagasse in your office as well. You know, they did not express any concern, you know, with the 24 foot.

This is kind of a commercial operation. I believe we require more than 20 feet for commercial driveways, don't we? You don't. 20 feet. 20 feet is our commercial driveway. All right. I'd still like something in writing from DOT that can't be expanded.

it is on the record yes um so this is a deed so this is a non-access highway meaning that even if you could buy I just have another one in a different town uh DOT won't let you access your property because it's a non-access highway um they have an approval for a 20-foot access right we cannot access our property in 21 feet, 22, 30 feet. We only have 20 feet allowed.

Okay, but in their letter, they're saying you have to do 22 feet on this section.

They're saying that we have to do 22 feet in the town, in the state right away.

In the state right away.

But then we can go down to 20.

You can, but they're demanding that you have to go to 22.

Yes, we do not have...

I would like to see that in writing.

There's two parcels there, and I think this might be part of the confusion. There's two parcels, so there's the 44 right-of-way, and then there's a strip next to it. Yes, there's another strip beyond it. So they're saying they can go out to 22 in the right-of-way for the turning radiuses to get in and out of there, but I think the right-of-way line is, what, maybe like 15 feet back from edge treatment, something like that. Usually, yeah, usually that.

Then there's a second parcel where they have blasted through the rock top.

Yeah, and that's where they've got the narrow line.

That's where the cross culvert is also.

Back in the 50s, they had plans to make that thing a four-lane expressway.

Which is why there's so much state-access property. That's why.

I just wanted to make sure that that was clarified.

The access road, you can't transition from there right away at 22 feet to anything other than 20 feet.

at the property at the property so you couldn't trans you can't transition to 22 feet and that's per the deed this is per deed this is per the connecticut state department of transportation um compilation map and it's recorded on the town uh records um dated July 28, 2011. So before this was enacted, no one could access or ever develop this land because it was landlocked by the state of Connecticut. They allowed 20 feet, no more, because of it being a special...

But the DOT has not been contacted and asked if you can widen that to 22 feet. You're going by a 2011 memo from the DOT.

It's a very...

There are also, I think you're saying that the different department of DOT, right?

Yes.

This is the right-of-way, that's land acquisition.