Council - workshop

I just saw Mr. Fuller come in. Let's go that way. Okay.

All right. Good evening. All right. This is our third budget workshop. It is Tuesday, August 25th, 2026 at 6 o'clock p.m. We will have call to order. Ms. Corbin, can you please give us the roll call?

Thank you. Mayor Charles Goodman.

I am here.

President Darkness Hines. Here. Vice President Deborah Jones. Here. Council Member Meredith Martin. Here. Council Member Shana Church. Here. Council Member Michael Cox. Absent. Interim City Manager Terry Brevard.

Here.

Attorney Kirsten Blue. Absent. Finance Director Stephen Bloom.

Do we have Stephen on the line?

Is he on the line? City Clerk Latricia Wright, I am stepping in for her tonight. She is absent.

Thank you so much. You're welcome. And at this time, we'll have opening prayer and Pledge of Allegiance to the flag by Charles Pittman, Mayor.

Join me if you choose. Lord, we come here tonight a government of people, as you decreed there would be. And Lord, we ask you now to give us the ability to discern the difficult process ahead of us. And Lord, I ask you to be with each one of the people that have taken the time out of their lives, their precious time, to come here to watch government in action. And Lord, I ask you to be with our police department As you know, there's always just one incident away from facing death. And Lord, our fire department, which is a wonderful thing that we're thankful that we are able to have, I ask you to be with each one of the firemen and help them to make the best decisions they can. And I ask you to be with this council to give them the wisdom that they need to do the right thing. I ask all this in your name. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you very much.

All right. At this time, we have the public participation. This will be the first of two times that you can speak on anything that is not on the agenda. Please state your name and where you're from. You have five minutes. Okay. Scene. Oh, there we go.

There you go.

Got it?

Yes, sir.

Dan Kaufman. I reside at 32 Northwest 4th Street. I'm not going to say a whole lot tonight because I said pretty much everything I said at the last meeting. And I got a few things, just a few things on the budget that I'd like to go over. I've tried to follow through the the paperwork that was given to us on the budget itself. The questions that I have are just basically questions. I'm trying to figure out in the budget, and I still haven't been able to discern myself from it because there's so much and so many pages. I haven't been able to really follow it as well as I probably should have. If I was a CPA, I'd probably have it down to a science. I sort of would like to know, we had $139 million that was transferred or is transferring from the utilities department into the general fund and for the expenses of what it pays for. But the one thing I don't understand is where, after the electric supplier is paid and everything that goes with everything, What is the actual income or what is on top of that for the city, based on the fact that for the utilities to have $139 million for the list that was given for what it was spent for, seems like there's quite a bit of money there that doesn't really come out to where the taxpayers themselves can follow it. I'm not saying it's not there. I'm just saying it's so convoluted to try to get through that you really can't find it. After hearing that the public meeting on YouTube broadcast happened to go offline, which during Mr. Penny's public notice last time in his public statements. And the city manager said it was submitted and it was probably a glitch, which is possible and probable in some ways. But I'm wondering if his statement is ever going to be able, I guess it's lost forever because it didn't record it. So what he said is gone forever. And the public itself, the general public that watches YouTube, is never going to know what that whole thing was all about. Because it sort of chops everything up to where there's no consistency in the discussion and what he put on the floor. So I think if we're going to use the YouTube site, and that's going to be our official carrier, we need to be a little more careful about making sure it's all working and it records everything, not just some things. And then there's the... I read an article, which I don't usually follow anything on YouTube or the web or Facebook. I don't do it on Facebook at all. But I was told to look at that after the meeting during the week. And I was sort of interested because there was an article from Linda Cooper, I think her name was. And I basically read through a lot of what she had to say. I didn't necessarily find anything that stood out that wasn't within the premise of what had already been said before throughout the whole process. But the only thing that I really wondered was Miss Jones, you responded to everything she had to say and everything that was on the meeting. And I would have assumed, and I was waiting to hear what Mayor Goodwin was going to say because he's the head of the fire department and the police department. And I would have felt, and I was in his position, I would have felt like I was being sort of put out to the side because I would believe that all the accusations she made about how she saw everything, it would have been him that I would have expected to do the response. So, the final line on the budget for me is that it appears we have a champagne taste on a beer budget and with the people, the people when we can't even afford for a six-pack. So when you look at it that way, it comes down, in my opinion, to a BOT. And if you don't know what a BOT is, it's the bank of the taxpayers, and you're overdrawn. Obviously, by transferring funds back and forth all over.

Sir, your time is now up.

OK.

Thank you. You can come back at the second participation.

I have, I want to make 1 small response and I will say that the mayor wasn't here is the reason he didn't respond.

Yep.

Hi, I'm Joseph Malone. I'm reading this again on the behalf of Joe pending because it was deleted or lost on the minutes last meeting. Good evening mayor and council. I am here simply as a courtesy to let, you know that I'm submitting a request. Asking that my formal complaint regarding the chief of police be handled by someone other than the mayor. I'm not good at public speaking. My concern is not about asking anyone to automatically believe my allegations or reach for a particular conclusion. I am asking for a fair and impartial process based on the facts and evidence. I can't do this, Jovi. I can't. I'm just not good at public speaking. Sorry, guys. I can't, Jovi.

I can't.

Well, in the meanwhile, I just want to know what's going to happen to what's going on. I mean, is there going to be an investigation or what's going on to all this?

This is a budget workshop.

So you can't give me an answer?

I think you need to have a conversation with the city manager. So if you'll come see him tomorrow morning, he can answer you then. Thank you. Is there anyone else? Okay. We will move forward. All right. Item number three is going to be review of the revised budget 2026-2027 and budget-related matters. Finance Director Stephen Bloom, and he is online. Can you hear us, Stephen?

two other dates for you. September 8th will be your assessment of public hearing during the regular meeting. Just kind of as a FYI. And then your first actual public hearing on the budget will be September 15th. Just kind of put those two dates in the back of your mind. You have in front of you version 3. Good news is all the funds are balanced in the version you have. And everything that we have talked about in the prior workshop is included. I have put in there the reduction in the health care premiums. That was one of the things we talked about. Also, the 2% increase for all staff is included in this version. And then to offset that, we had talked about taking out a, I think it was an inmate position We actually took out the street and park supervisor position to offset and cover those increases. And then the only thing I wanted to mention is that I did update some of the governmental revenue, which is some of your sales tax, discretionary revenue sharing. The state finally released some of those estimates. So I did update them. Unfortunately, most of the estimates were a little bit lighter than what we had in the budget. But, you know, at least it's better to be a little bit conservative as to what they are now. So that's, you know, I updated those as well. Otherwise, like I said, everything is balanced. It includes everything that we talked about. Reminder, the piece we deferred until January is the fire staffing change. So obviously that's not in here. Everything else that we had talked about is included. And with that, I'll take any questions.

So one of the things that we changed or did we change or did we talk about, we got rid of the utility Supervisor the supervisor position and that's where we were able to balance the budget related as related to our 2%, correct?

So, just for clarity purposes, that position was actually funded through the general fund, not the utility fund included under the administrative section.

the staffing plan okay but you know it made perfect sense because it was funded out of the general fund and that's what we used to offset the 2% and we zeroed it out not deleted it so it's not totally gone yeah it's still there cuz that was my other question what happens when we need that position again we'll have to figure out a way to fund it I mean that's really the way I don't eliminate it I want to keep it there, keep it as they're funded at zero. And then if we have to bring it back one day, then it's there to do it. And we could bring it back next year, you know, depending on what happens. So, but as it stands right now, it's what is helping us fund the additional shortages. Okay.

Yeah. And it's a scenario where again, in January, when you look at the fire stop and you can again, look at that position, it's page seven, the first, position under the administrative Section you'll see their streets and park supervisor positions there, but it's zeroed out across the board Okay, mr. Mayor Thank You madam president

As is well known, this budget hearing was scheduled at a time that, for weeks, I had been scheduled to be at a Florida League of Mayors meeting. I don't know who did it or why it was done, but I thought that it was unfortunate. That's the best word I can find. However, there is a couple of things that I'd like to get straight. The 2% that everybody is talking about for all, my police department does not want and will not accept a 2% raise. We did not agree to it, and we are not accepting it. Put it back in your budget. We believe that the city is in financial crisis, and we do not want to be part of continuing to deplete funds where we have to eliminate positions to give people raises. Second is about the fiber. If you look, and Councilor Jones was nice enough to show me that fiber is not on page 64. It's on page 76. But when you look at the budgetary documents within fiber, Mr. Bloom, you have outdone yourself with smoking beers. There is nothing on the fiber that is any way encouraging. What I see on all the documents in the fiber is a horrible situation. It says that we have 830 people. At the last meeting I was at, we had 130. And one of our two installers quit. You guys got to be kidding. Do you think we're blind? This is not a true representation of what is actually going on. And when you look at the cost of it and the projections of it, well, have a fairy tale if you want to believe them that's all thank you anyone else I have a question for Terry how are we doing with getting the

bids for assisting our fiber crew so that we do meet that 800 number that we were expected to be at already. I understand we're not. I appreciate the mayor's point that we're not there, but my understanding is we are making efforts to get there by this fall.

Yes, we are. So I have a meeting actually tomorrow with Echo, which is actually the installers for Central Florida. The meeting last week went very well. Things are looking like they can definitely, if we can get them into play without a doubt, based on the numbers that they're giving to me, we'll meet that goal or exceed it in January. My point was January, the end of January. So and then the numbers are kind of looking like if it's just a standard install, basically $280 is the cost to us for them to do it. And of course, any day we run any fiber or do anything like that, the cost will go up a little bit. But things are looking really good on that front, specifically in the sense of I may be able to piggyback on top of a Dixie County fiber grant. that they did for them and these are the people like i said are already right here out of chiefland doing the job for central florida there's no mobilization fee there's no per diem fee there's no housing fee uh and i think it's going to be pretty good fit for what we need so i think we will meet that goal um the other thing that i would like to say before i move on if that's okay you good yeah okay is that even though the mayor would give up the 2%, he does not and cannot give it up for the dispatchers. They are represented by the union, whether they're paying members or not. So they will get whatever the council gives them. So I can't do anything about that. I have no control over that. That is the bargaining unit. It's the same thing that happened several years ago with the 3% and 3.5. We came in and had to make our people back to 3.5 or they'll file a grievance and take us to PERC and we'll lose.

And I appreciate the sentiment, and I know last year that the Chief found room in his budget to increase the officers' salaries more than the more than what was expected and I appreciate that but also I'm under the understanding that what we do for one we do for all. I did have a question though that was raised this week and I was just wondering those of you who've been here longer and have more history, we budget this raise for the employees. And my question is, have we ever budgeted and then left it at the discretion of the city manager who is here day after day watching their work, seeing the progress to determine when that raise is implemented? Or have we always just budgeted and applied it immediately?

It has always been budgeted and applied immediately. I have always asked that we do some sort of evaluation-based instead of just giving in across the board, but we have not done that as of yet. And I want to mic this real quick because he was speaking on the mayor's stuff. So, yeah, go ahead. You want to piggyback off of what she's talking about? I do. I want to add to that. Go ahead.

Many years ago, we did have merit raises, which were based on evaluation, and we gave them up to a certain percentage, and the department head did an evaluation, which was approved by the city manager, and that's what they got. Right. It was before we had it. It's been a long time ago. And now we don't have, as Starfin has said, we've been trying to get evaluations based on job descriptions so that we could do merit-based evaluations. And we do now at least have the job descriptions. Kim went a long way doing that. Because before, we couldn't do it because we didn't have that.

Right.

Because you can't base the merit-based evaluation off of something when you don't have a job description. So now, if we went a little farther, we could almost do that. And at that point, I think when we did that, it was like up to 4% at that time. And they could do 1%, 2%, 3%, any combination in between. But that's been, like I said, it's probably been 15, 20 years ago.

But then I am still always at the opinion that we don't have to give raises every year.

And that's just something that the council has always just done.

We're sitting here and we're looking at a budget. And I know things are changing and we have prices of things going up and we want to keep our staff and things of that nature. But And I'm not just talking about this year. Almost every year we've sat here, everybody has known that I've spoken about raises every year. That is it really necessary to give a raise every year? Especially as, because we've been talking about this budget for a while, and we've been being told by Stephen for years that if we do not do something different, We were going to be in a situation, the situation we're in right now. So I don't know. I don't know related to raises. I know people think that I don't want to give raises, and that's not it. We're all entitled to a raise. But I think we need to reevaluate how we give raises and for reasons. That's all.

And I think the point, thank you, and that's informative. I think, you know, the issue for me a little bit is certainly like from my perspective, what I see of the employees is doing a job, but I'm not here day in, day out. I'm not their direct supervisor. So, you know, it feels a little bit. To give a raise, particularly when we're not flush with money, feels a little hard when I'm not actually here seeing that day-to-day. And I'm not saying that the day-to-day work isn't amazing. I'm just not sure that I'm the one that should be deciding the percentage raise that the employees should be getting. That's all I'm...

I would say when you do an across the board, it's more of a trying to keep up with inflation than anything else. And obviously we're not doing that with a 2%. Right. But it's more token than anything else. But they do know at least that we care about them. I mean, the inflation rate is like 3.97. And even Social Security...

recipients are receiving that 3.97 are real close I haven't heard the actual figure yet but something close to it so then maybe we need to stop calling it a raise and call it something different and that you know I'm saying because if we're going to CPI is what it is so so maybe we need to stop calling it a raise and call it what it is you can call it a COA yeah yeah and then and then be be and be done with it you know that way everybody it is what it is because that's what brings me it's okay to my next question sorry since we're on this topic i'll just knock them right now can you hold that oh yeah let the chief speak real quick sure i was just going to make a statement that uh city manager is absolutely correct uh

probably misstatement the 2% advancement that the mayor was speaking about is after me and him had some discussions today I told him that I did not want the 2% advancement and I think that's where the confusion came in at because the city manager is absolutely right the employees are covered by the Union so You can't not do it and not give it to them. But that was in reference to me. I don't want the 2% advancement.

If I may, that was, in fact, in reference to the chief and in reference to the fact that all this was decided while I was not even here, which annoyed me greatly, and that these 2% that we're giving them because it's a COLA, a cost of living raise, the people in the private sector are not getting that. And we're in a financial crisis You know, I have been saying it for several years now. Stephen has been warning us for several years. We're now in the point that we're having to delete positions so that we can give money to other people. Does nobody see the writing on the wall but me? It is you're the council, it is your job to run the city, and my job is to observe you, and that's what I'm doing. Thank you.

If I may, I actually have a question related to this. So my next question, and maybe this is a question for Mr. Bloom, my understanding, and I might be wrong, is that next year when with minimum wage is going to increase the CPI will be added on top of minimum wage each year, is that correct? The state minimum wage, or is that incorrect?

No, the minimum wage will be decided by the CPI.

Okay. So if we have employees who are employed at, you know, starting employees who come in at minimum wage and their rate of pay is increased the next year based on the CPI, does that mean that every employee will then be required, since what we do for one we have to do for all, will then also automatically see that same increase in their wage?

Well, I'll put in my thoughts on it, and then you probably need to come from a labor specialist. But in the past, when a minimum wage has gone up, it has not automatically meant everybody else's, and that's part of the problem with compression. So, no, it does not automatically trigger something, but it certainly starts the compression issue or further intensifies it.

Thank you. That just sort of, in terms of looking down the road at what we're going to be faced with next year, knowing kind of what we're going to be required to do versus what we have the option to do is helpful. Thank you.

Did you have something else before I go to Mr. Benton?

I go to Benton first. That's always him first.

Yes, ma'am. I was just going to make a couple of suggestions for the council to ponder about moving forward with the... guess merit-based raises since since I've been here in you know 2019 with it has been based on the the council's decision for the percentage and it's been applied at October one of the things that we could explore you know moving down the road is having different allocations for different departments you know like a I don't know five eight thousand dollar bucket, for lack of a better term, for merit-based evaluation raises. And then based on the approval of the evaluation by the council or HR or city manager, whoever signs off on that, that each department head would have that limited funding to be able to spread out throughout the year for their staff. For me, that would be the easiest way to tackle it, but something to chew on.

Can we do that with the union? And you're right on it. That's exactly what we did. We came up with the dollar amount that was allowed in the budget. And it was portioned out by the number of employees in each department. And then that department head gave it discretionary to them based on merit.

Right. And I mean, I don't know if you guys know the whole process, but we can't, like as a department head, I can't arbitrarily raise one person to a specific salary. The city manager still has to sign off on it. So it's still a controlled process. And then we also have the pay grades that we have to keep in compliance with. You know, there's a cap on that that you can't just give a raise past the cap. You can do a COLA past the cap, but you can't give a raise past the cap based on a pay grade.

And are we limited by the union? And I'm sort of looking down the road because I feel like we get to this point each year and it gets real awkward, so I'd rather have the conversation now.

We'd have to make a different bargaining agreement with the union. We would.

Thank you.

Your turn.

My turn. Okay. The mayor is right when he was not here. And that meeting did get changed. It was originally on the 12th. I think it got moved to the 11th because we were all going to miss it on the 12th. But he wouldn't have been here either way for either meeting. So it was unfortunate. But during that last budget hearing, I did bring up a couple of things that we suddenly realized were the mayor's purview. And when they were the mayor's purview, we kind of shut them down. I didn't want to discuss it any farther when I realized that it was the mayor. And at this point, I am okay with not talking about the fire department because I think they're not ready to do that yet. just in talking with the mayor, because I've also met with him, as well as the fire personnel, the chief. But I do want to bring back up the police department. And I know you're going to get upset with me, and the mayor may as well. I've had this conversation with him, but I'm not real sure that he heard exactly where I was going with it. The fact that The police chief received a 15% increase, which amounted to $7.05 an hour, for the time that he served as the city manager, the interim city manager. And then when he went back to be the police chief, it reverted back, the personnel action form reverted back to his normal pay, which was, by the way, $43.50.

$46.64.

And if you look at our thing now, it says $53.69. That's the $7.05. After it was rescinded, because he was no longer serving as the interim city manager, The mayor then, according to, the mayor wasn't here, but according to the HR director, the mayor then approved a personnel action form for him to keep the 15%. And the mayor and I have discussed that. He's told me his reasoning on it. And I still have issue with it because he went back to the same position that he had when he left. And I do see on here it does have the additional 2%. And I see you say you're willing to waive that. And I did have the calculations for all of it. Because with that, it was a 17% increase for $8.12 total. I still have a problem with it. I honestly, I know that we, this time of year, we set the budget for every department in the city That's our job, one of our jobs, is to set the budget, including for the police and fire department. And I know that the mayor does have the ability, when someone has got a raise, when they're moved from, say, a sergeant to a captain or a captain to a major or a deputy chief, I understand that that is his purview to give them a raise. I have no problem with the change in title and change in duties and responsibilities. But in this case, our police chief went right back to the same duties and responsibilities that he had before. He was paid for the time he served as our interim city manager. I just really want to discuss that as a group, and this is the only place we can do that, because I don't know how y'all feel about it, but I think we need to talk about it. And I'm sure the mayor wants to weigh in on it.

Mr. Mayor.

I don't know. He's not. Pardon me?

Do you have anything to say, Mr. Mayor?

Not at this time. You want to talk about it? Go ahead and talk about it. Then if I have something to weigh in, I will. I don't speak unless I have something to say.

I'll jump in. Go ahead. When this was brought to my attention, I also spoke with the mayor. I actually spoke with him a couple times and got some clarification on his reasoning. And what I said to him, which I'll say here, is I value our police chief very much, and I think that the reasoning that was presented to me by the mayor was that When the chief came over here, and forgive me if I've misconstrued anything, but when the chief came over here, the mayor recognized excellent qualities that our chief had because when he was absent he he saw what the chief brought to that police department and to the community in that police department and I very much respect that what I expressed to the mayor is that the timing of this is a little bit unseemly in my opinion just the timing of it appears that and was latched on to by an article that I think most of us saw, was that it appeared that the chief just kept the raise from when he was city manager versus it being clearly spelled out that they were two separate items. There was the pay that he got when he came over to become the city manager and take on that burden for the city when we were without, and then there was the pay that he got that was, in essence, a merit-based raise that was to the best of my understanding at the time, inside of their budget. And that was my main concern was that those two were very close together. They were not well explained publicly. And so the appearance of it was untimely. And I expressed that to him. And so we have had our conversation about it.

Shannon, you have anything to say?

still kind of learning the ropes on that one but it it did bring up a question that I was just curious about myself is when when raises are given within certain departments does that information only come before the council if it is outside of the proposed budget or the approved budget for that year or is it something that just always comes and is made public knowledge so we can be aware of those situations as they're happening That's pretty much my main question regarding it. Because my thoughts are pretty much the same. It happened at the same time. We didn't know or understand it. So it raises questions when people look into it, as they will do. But my understanding was that it is within the mayor's privy to be able to approve that, as long as it doesn't go outside of the approved budget. So, yeah, that's pretty much my thoughts at this time. And, of course, just like the timing. Yeah.

But the amount that he's getting is the exact same amount he got when he came over. Is the amount that you're getting paid the exact same amount you got when you were acting as interim city manager? It is?

It is a penny.

Okay. Okay. So basically there was no change in his pay. So Mr. Mayor, what percentage did you give him as related to a raise or how much of a raise did you give the chief merit raise?

Thank you, Madam President. I believe that the amount that I gave the chief is on record.

I don't have that record can you tell me what that is?

You have been discussing it very clearly and I have not disputed anything you said however I did it. It was within my budget, and I had, in my opinion, as I have told those that I've had a chance to talk to, I believe I had good, sound reasons to do it, and I stand behind my decision, and I do not regret it. It is going to stand as long as I'm mayor.

So since the mayor does not want to answer my question, can you tell me how much worth it that he gave him related to a race? I can.

He made $46.64 before the 15%, and it became $53.69. So he gave him a 15% raise. If you multiply that by 2,080 hours, that's $14,664. Extra per year. Yeah. So he got a $14,000 a year raise. Yes, ma'am.

Now, Madam President, if you would like to go into this, I am trying to spare ugliness for the council. Nonetheless, I will defend what I have done if you insist. I do not think it's in the best interest of the city, but if you or this council insist that I bring to public all the reasons that caused me to make the decision that I did, I will do so at your request.

Mr. Mayor, you can do whatever it is that you like.

I have done what I would like.

I am talking. We are here for a discussion. Correct? So you said that you will speak when you have something to say. I asked you a question. You did not want to answer that question. You told me what it was that you wanted to say. So then I reverted back to Mrs. Jones. I wanted to hear it from you. We're here for a discussion about the budget. It's not a tit for tat. It's not a pissy contest. I'm just asking a question. I think we all have the right to ask the question to get an understanding. That's all this is. You say it in your prayer for everybody to get an understanding and be able to make the right decision for the city. That's what we're trying to do here. Nobody's stepping on anybody's toes, not trying to step on anybody's toes. And nobody's trying to throw anybody out to the wolves or anything like that. We're just trying to do what is best, the best way we know how. And we're not perfect in this, but we're trying. We're trying to understand and we're trying to do it the right way. And we may not do it the right way, but we're trying. Can you understand that?

Madam President, I do understand it. As a matter of fact, I have explained that to a number of people, that you are not professional politicians. You are citizens, just like everybody else, and you will make mistakes, but you're doing the best you can. I did agree with that. Thank you.

All right. So, where do we, yes.

I just want to say that as a resident, and again, I had this conversation with Mr. Mayor, I think transparency is best. And I think that the reasons behind things should be clear and we should be able to explain them. And there may be moments when we say there is an explanation and for, you know, For discretion's sake, I need to delay giving that explanation until a month down the road, but there is a reasoning. But when that time comes, we need to be very clear about that, and we need to have a promise that there will be clarity at that time.

Okay. Ms. Jones, were you going to say something?

I just want to look straight at the chief and tell the chief that I love the chief. He does a great job. Please don't get upset with me. I'm looking at $14,000. And that's just what I got to look at. I also know that when somebody is doing an out of category work and they revert back to their normal job, that normally that 15% would revert back. And as I said, if he had different responsibilities or different duties, which may be in the future, I can understand the increase. But the fact that he returned to the exact same duties, exact same number of employees, exact same responsibilities, and I know what they did. Yes, you are within your budget. You took Major Fortney's salary and you moved it, a part of it. You shifted it. And that's not the point. The point is... I don't understand why you did it. I mean, yes, he's a great chief. I'm always behind him. But $14,000 is $14,000. What if everyone else in his department decides they want $14,000? What if everybody else in the city decides they want $14,000? It's not like they had any, again, no increase in responsibilities or duties. Possibly in the future, but not now.

I have to agree. $14,000 is a lot. I had an issue when somebody got like $5,000 increase, but that's just me. We always ask people to operate within their budget, but we're also trying to squeeze money out of budgets as well. But then that being said, we are also finding devil's advocate. We're finding places or we're taking money from different locations to give a raise across the board.

But it's a new budget that we're doing that in, not altering the one we're currently sitting in, which is what happened.

But we allowed that to happen in another department as well, did we not?

I don't think so. So you have to remind me.

Did we go, did the police department go over its previous budget with this race?

No. No. Okay. I think we still operate within.

Matt Fortney's salary and they are part of it. Just part of it. None of it. Well, then where did it come from?

The mayor made that adjustment before Major Fortney even left. Ms. Jones. Yes. Major Fortney was still here.

Okay, well then we didn't know it. I don't know where he got it then. I don't know where he got the money if he didn't get it from there. Anyone else? He would have been over budget. Where would it have come from?

There's a lot of assumptions being made here without facts.

Well, we're asking you. No, ma'am, you're not.

You're making statements.

Well, you're not participating in the conversation.

What would you like from me? Let me try to participate in your conversation.

Ask him a specific question.

My esteemed colleague.

I don't get rude either.

Did I say something rude?

Yes, sir. You're getting real close.

Can I ask a mayor question? Yes. Mr. Mayor, can you please explain to me and the public where in the current budget, not the budget that we're looking at, but where in this budget you found the money? And I'm not asking in an antagonistic way. I just simply would like to know if you could explain that to us.

The police department. had managed by a great deal of hard work and contacts to get a lot of things that were donated and saved the city a great deal of money. And that created where my police department was under budget. My fire department was not. It's the way it works. And I'm looking at the budget and what's going on within the budget. I'm looking at the future. I'm looking at extenuating circumstances. And I said I do not want the council's to in any way feel bad about this. It went out to the public, because there are people that search. And I am perfectly fine with that. And in due time, when I can, it is out of my hands. This was put onto me by somebody else within my departments. And I have little choice if I do not want to antagonize my own departments. And frankly, counselors, I will not do that. I made a choice and I stand by it. And it was a good choice. You wanted to keep my chief of police. Other people would love to lure him away. I want him to stay because I think he showed me above and beyond what he had showed me before. He came to a position he was totally unqualified for and you all loved him. And you wanted him to stay here.

And I had to fight to get him back. We wanted him to stay the allotted time that you agreed to allow him to stay.

He was beyond that.

I'm not sure.

I know you're not, but I'm telling you.

I didn't think he was.

There was no, I'm not going to get into something of lambasting the council. I'm just not going to do it. I made a decision. And that's fine. It was within my budget. It was within my power. And I stand by it. Thank you.

Can I add a tiny comment? Sure. That was the one thing that I did want to kind of mention was in my time of being here in this past year and back here, that is the one thing that I've seen consistently from the police department is he was able to use his resources and contacts through all the different boards and everything that he's on. to bring in things for free that may have ended up costing us had he not had that. So looking at that and looking at the fact that it was already in the budget, even though I wasn't sure where it came from, that's one of the biggest reasons why I personally didn't have a problem with him getting a raise. The amount comes out to quite a bit, especially when we're looking at the overall budget. And like she said, tip or tat, trying to pull this from here and put it over there. But that's something that you don't see very often with really any city that I've been researching in the past year is one department consistently saying, I was able to get this to happen. I was able to do this. And it costs you nothing, whether it came from the police department's budget or the city's budget. So that's something I'm very grateful that we have here. And I at least want to say we appreciate you for all of that each year. It's a couple times throughout the year. And no, we haven't really had a chance to say thank you each time, but thank you.

I don't think you haven't been thanked. You have, and Ms. Deborah definitely thanked you every time that you have done something. So let's not say we haven't been.

A lot of the free stuff that he got was things that weren't even budgeted. He had the ability to go out there and find that and get it for us.

That wasn't even on the radar for us, but for him it was. And I do acknowledge that, and I tell him every day. I mean, I don't have an issue with the raise either, but it is a lot of money. It definitely is a lot of money. Period. I mean, there is no getting around that, regardless of how you shed it. So, what's next?

That's all I have.

Anything else? Anybody else? So, yeah. Go ahead. Again, I'm sorry. I'm already on 2728. But that's because every time, every year I learn. So next year, just for our awareness, and I think everybody knows, one of the state statutes that passed is that we have to take our budget. And then as a workshop, we have to deduct 10% and figure it out. And I just think it's important when we look at the total amount that our budget has gone up this year and recognize that next year we have to show whatever budget we come up to balanced, and then we have to minus 10% and show that we can cut. So I just think it's good for us all to be thinking about that as we go through this next year with this budget, that we have to look for ways that we can still reduce expenditures. So, and I personally... And I'm not sure this is possible. I personally am in agreement with the mayor that I don't want to see us getting rid of or moving around positions that we may need filled in order to make that 10% reduction. I would really like to see it occur. And again, I'm not behind the scenes. I'm not buying the reams of paper, I'm not buying the electrical lines, I'm not buying the valves and the fittings, but I would really like to see if there's a way that we can think about that from a more of a frugal standpoint without cutting services, but thinking about how we cut waste versus positions. That would be my dream.

I agree, I agree, I agree. Can we go back to you, Chief? Oh, sorry. I thought we'd moved on. We did, but I've got to go back. I don't know that we can not give you 2%. Can we do that legally?

Yeah, you can. Where's the attorney?

Are you sure?

She's never come to budget hearings. Thank you, sir. You sure?

I'm not a union employee.

Okay. Okay.

Did you have something to say, Mr. Burlard?

Yeah, I mean, just real quickly, he can refuse the cost of living, you know, just like anybody else could. The cost of living will include, I think, based on the HR manual, the city clerk and the city manager, because it is a COLA. As far as any of the other stuff going on, I know we got a... do the 10% we're talking about next year, but I can most certainly assure you that 10% cost in the city is going to be services. It's not paper. It's not whatever. We spend $1.3 million every year funding the fire department, police department, roads and streets and parks, and those are positions. So if we want to continue to have those things, that's going to continue to cost the transfer. I don't have a position on the chief salary, but I just want to clarify a few things.

I just popped my bubble right there. I didn't want to get too far.

I've been through this before in the housing crash in the American Sheriff's Office, and it's cutting resources, positions, and services.

And it's going to get worse if...

This doesn't include the... The homestead tax. Yeah. If that passes.

Correct. Yes. Correct. We're going to be in. Did you have something to say before you left?

Oh, I got y'all $30,000 more from the county.

Appreciate it. Thank you. You said you thought you could. That's wonderful. Thank you for that savings.

You're welcome. I just need to leave before I. I understand.

I understand. Have a good night. I have a question for Stephen.

It's unrelated.

Stephen. Mr. Bloom, are you there still? Yes, I am.

Totally unrelated question. If the county is having their budget hearing on 9-8 at 5-0-1, can we have ours on 9-8 at 6 o'clock?

Yes, because you're not having a budget hearing. It's just the assessment.

It's the fire assessment. Okay.

Appreciate it.

Just making sure.

All right. Okay.

That changes our time to what?

Same day, different time?

The county's having one of their budget, their public budget hearings.

Oh, the fire assessment.

On the same day that we're going to have our fire assessment. So we're changing our time? We're not. Okay. He said it didn't matter. Sometimes we can't do it at the same time they do. Right. This is not one of those cases.

Yeah, I believe we checked with the consultant on that one.

All right. Well...

kind of where we are. So you have nothing else?

I guess we can ask the public if they have anything.

You have nothing else? Do you have anything else?

Yeah, I mean, I'll just go ahead and spit it out. Um, really appreciate what our staff does and I appreciate that everybody's fighting to give them a 2% raise I do think that I do want everybody to understand that there wasn't just a 2% raise there is a significant increase in health care costs and I that when we give the 2% raise, it's not just the 2%. And, Darfiness, you bring this up regularly. It's not just 2%. That adds a significant amount to what we pay for retirement, what we pay for, sorry, I'm drawing a blank on the other category. Workman's comp. Workman's comp, thank you. It's compounded. It's not just 2%. And again, I am in no way, shape, or form saying that people aren't working hard enough to deserve it. And again, it's not a merit base, but sometimes I think employees feel like if they don't get it, that it is a representation of how much we value them. And I just want to personally be very clear that it's not a representation for me or try not to let it be a representation of how much I value the employees hard work because I know that they are working hard. But it is in many ways a representation of what we think we can afford. And that is not, those two things are not always equal. And that we are public servants. And sometimes what we have to do is remember that we are here to serve the public. We are here to serve the residents. And that might mean not getting that cost of living raise each year as much as it would be lovely to have. I think everybody, whether they work for the city or not, is facing that question. And so I just want to be really clear that it's not just 2%. when we approve this it's a lot more than that and i just want everybody to know that it's not just the reason we're slow to make this decision and take our time is because it's much bigger than two percent shannon you have anything that's a very very good point thank you for bringing that up all right mister one more comment yes ma'am so and i know we have two more public uh

meetings for this. And I'll go back between now and before then and see how a cost of living adjustment affects the CBA and what it means on the union contract. I don't know that it has any meaning on it, but since now we're not talking about merit increases or relabeling this as a COLA, I just want to let you all know that I'm going to have to go look back at their agreement with them to see what it says.

Okay. They have a percentage in it.

Yeah, and we have time to work on it. So, I mean, I will get you an answer, though, before the end of the week.

Good point.

If I had my laptop, you'd have it tonight.

Okay. Thank you, thank you. Anything from the public? Would you like to speak on what we've been talking about?

Well, as far as I can tell at this point, this was probably one of the better meetings I've seen because there's been some understanding and some true dialogue as to where things should be going. The public always seems to not know what's going to happen next and what is going to happen at the next meeting and what's going to happen at the next meeting because things just continue to get a push and a shove, a wish and a want, and a who can we do or what can we do to get what we need versus what really needs to be. You have a great, one of the things I can say in the three years I've lived here, you've got a great utility department. They work hard. Mistakes are made. Leaks don't get to, but they do work hard. You've had a lot of budget problems and with employment, just keeping people and the arguments that goes on and who's ahead of who. You've done the best you can do with what you've got. And I have to agree that most people that puts people on a diocese, they think they're more than just people and they're more than just residents. In cities, they're residents. They're not paid professional council people. But I think you've all done reasonably well in this particular meeting today because you've actually brought a convoluted mess into at least a place to where you can all sit. And now there's a direction to go to Hamburg to see where you can get to. So with that, I appreciate that. There's still some questions that even I have, especially about the fire department. There's things that I still don't fully understand, like... How much that we never see is how much that we get from Levy County for answering their fire calls out here when they can't make it. We don't see that really in the budget. At least I haven't. And we don't really know, we don't really have a ratio of how many firefighters issues takes place with our fire department that is solely within the Williston area to what we expand ourselves to to cover for Libby. I mean, there's things like that that just doesn't come out to the general public. But yet, whenever we're sitting and trying to look at it, it becomes hard to follow. But thank you for your efforts tonight.

Thank you. Thank you. And I will say the fire assessment, what day is that on?

Yeah, I'm looking.

The fire assessment, if you will come to that, they talk about that information there. And Ms. Debra's going to get that date and time, which is going to be coming up shortly. This is, you can come up and talk, yeah.

Let me also say that the revenue that they give us is also shown in revenue. I'll find that also for you. And Lamar just said they, I want to say it was 300,000 or was it 330 before, and he's added another 30.

It was $397,000, and we added $30,000 to it today. After the county didn't want to give us anything, and Lamar stood up there and fought for it for about 20 minutes.

So that's what we're getting for our out-of-city costs.

So $420,000, yeah.

Hi, I'm Joseph. Again, I'm just going to read this quickly. I have trouble publicly speaking. I'm here tonight to simply... Oh, I'm sorry, sir.

This is a public... Not public participation. No, no, not time. This is about the budget. I'm sorry. This is any comments about the budget. I'm sorry. I know you're having issues with speaking. Yes, sir.

So I don't know if this was a typo or not, but I have a groundsman that did not receive the two-point 2% raise on his income. I don't know if that was a typo, but...

So say it out loud for Mr. Bloom. So where was it? What page is it?

I have a McGroundsman, Michael Sampson.

What page?

Page 7, under electric.

Not our page 7.

Our page 11. Okay. Because I was like, I'm not seeing seven.

Oh, yeah, they're here. Yeah, you're right. Is he brand new or something?

No.

No, no.

Stephen, are you still online?

Can you still hear me?

Okay, we can hear you now.

Yeah, I'll take a look at it and fix it. Okay. I'll fix it if it didn't.

Okay, thank you. You could probably switch that with the chief.

Yeah.

Good catch, Dave. Yeah, my next. Anything else from the public? Anyone else from the public needs to speak?

Okay.

I think we've done all we can do. So, Stephen, our next meeting is going to be budget hearing, right? Our first budget hearing?

Yeah, on September 15th. This is the first public hearing for the budget.

Okay. Did he say December 5th or 15th? September 15th.

By the way, at 6 o'clock?

At 6 p.m., yes. Thank you. Everybody good?

Just to make sure I'm understanding, the next hearing will be, the 2% will be kept in?

Correct. So the next hearing will be where we actually vote on the budget. Our first hearing to vote on the budget, and then we'll have a second hearing where it will be final.

We don't vote at workshops. We can only vote at...

Right. Just trying to make sure that my understanding is that what we've got so far will be on the next one.

Yeah.

Okay. Minus any little changes like the grounds keeping.

Right. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. And the chief.

Right.

Yeah, the chief's already in there.

No, he's 2%. We're moving his 2%.

I don't think we need to do that.

He asked for it. If that's what he wants to do. Why you need to care? If that's what he wants to do.

So I will also have to research that to see if it's allowable in the HR menu.

Okay.

It may not be. But he could donate it to the city lunch fund.

I wouldn't think so, but he said it was. That would be an excellent idea.

Lunch fund.

Yeah, definitely.

But I will let y'all know. He likes to eat.

All right. Are we good for tonight?

Can I get a reminder from somebody about when the meeting is on the water utility rate? Does anybody have that?

Well, there's supposed to be a workshop with Florida Rural Water. And Patricia has mentioned it, but I don't know if we've actually set it up. She has a date she keeps throwing around.

I think we do.

Unless y'all have one.

Oh, I saw a date, but I think I accidentally sent it to the mayor that I was willing.

September 14th.

Yeah, she's giving us a date.

September 14th is what I have on my calendar. And time? It doesn't have a time. I think that's what we were waiting on.

That is what I was waiting for.

Oh, okay. I don't think we have a time yet.

Typically, is that in the evening? Does that take place during the day, evening? Usually evening. Excellent.

Lacking the time, I put it at 9 o'clock in the morning.

Oh, wow.

He'll be the only one here.

My alert's at 9 o'clock, but I'm not going to be here. It will be at 6 o'clock. They'll adjust their time to us.

And I would just strongly recommend to anybody in the public who's listening, once we get an official time, please come to this meeting. I've not been to one yet.

um but i have been told they are incredibly formative they will help you understand why our water rates are what we are and why we have to do certain things so all budgetary questions so come please come this is a great one that miss jones you had brought up at the last meeting when we had so many residents coming in with so much confusion on their bills yes um totally understandable those the amounts were ridiculously high um but yes this would be great um if we could blast that information online just so as many people get aware of it and they can come in and learn together.

It's where they come and threaten us. They do. They say, if you don't raise your rates, we're not going to give you this. And then we don't do it. We do half of it.

One more comment before we adjourn. Yes, sir. I want to get out of here. If Mr. Kaufman will stay behind, I want to sit down with him a few minutes and look at the budget.

Yeah, and I have a page for you as well.

You got something for him, too. All right.

So we're just waiting on the time to be announced.

For the rule.

Terry just said 6 o'clock. 6 o'clock. Okay.

I want to make sure I'm keeping up.

Yeah.

He said he would make it 6 o'clock so everybody can be there.

Wonderful. Are you talking about the rule water? Yes. Did I miss it?

No, no, no. Yes, sir.

It's now scheduled for 6 o'clock in the afternoon?

Yes, sir. It'll be an evening thing, so all the council members will be here. So you're not going to be here at 9 o'clock in the morning like I am?

No, sir.

I will be here on that day at 9 o'clock, but not at a rural water meeting.

All right. So item number four, public participation. This will be your last opportunity to speak on anything that you would like to. You have five minutes.

All right, third time's a charm. I'm here tonight simply as a courtesy to let you know that I am submitting a written request asking for my formal complaint regarding the chief of police be handled by someone other than the mayor. My concern is not about asking anyone to automatically believe my allegations or to reach particular conclusion. I am asking for a fair and partial process based on facts and evidence because the statements have been made questioning my credibility before the review is complete. I believe I have a neutral person to handle. The complaint is the best interest of everyone involved myself, the chief of police, the mayor in the city. I also want to address my public public records request yesterday. I met with the city clerk and the interim city manager. Well, this was last week regarding my request during the meeting. I was told. By the city clerk that she can take as long as she needs to respond to my public request. I respectfully disagree with the interpretation of the cities. public records requests on Chapter 119. While some public records requests are legitimately required additional time when records must be located, reviewed, and redacted or evaluated by statute or exemptions, I do not believe the law provides an open-ended ability to simply hold public records requests without any timely action. This is also another issue that I believe the City Attorney and Council need to address. The city clerk who is responsible for processing and responding to the public records request is related to the chief of police and is subject to complaint. And the records that I'm seeking, I believe this creates at a minimum a conflict of interest that needs to be addressed before the city clerk is placed in a position of determining how my request is processed and the information is provided or how long the request is held. I am not accusing the city clerk of intentionally doing anything improper. I am saying that given the circumstances, I do not believe it is appropriate for a person with the relationship to have unilateral control over the records request directly connected to the person to whom she is related. For that reason, I respectfully ask the city attorney and council to determine what safeguards or alternative processes should be put in place to ensure that my public records request is handled by someone who is independent and has no personal relationship with the subject of underlying complaint. Again, I'm not asking for special treatment. I am asking for a fair process, transparency, confidence that the people handling the matters are independent and free from conflicts, or even the appearance of conflicts. I have made these concern known, and I am respectfully in waiting response from the city attorney, the council, and how the city intends to remedy these issues. and ensure that both my formal complaint and my public records request are handled fairly and partially in accordance with Florida law. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Thank you. Anyone else from the public? Seeing none, it's time for adjournment.

Move we adjourn.

I have a motion.

Second.

I have a second. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. All those opposed, say nay. Motion passes 4-0. We are adjourned at 7.16 p.m. Have a good night.