Master Plan Citizen Oversight Group - 2026 - Regular Meeting

All right.

Welcome. Thank you for coming out tonight. We got a great crowd. really appreciate the turnout. Um, tonight we're already on meeting number 12 and Joe, if you could please let us know how many meetings there will be approximately. Mr. Chair, that's a very good question. And this past month, as the city council prepares to adopt its calendar for the upcoming year, this case 2026, we had meetings scheduled through June. So if you do the math, about six more. Okay.

Um, great progress. And just in terms of sequence, if we'll do the transportation element tonight. The open space and recreation elements completed. You'll receive that for the next meeting in January. That just leaves then economic development and that would be February land use in March and then the approval process through three months of April, May and June. So that's what we're hoping. Excellent. Thank you. Is the mayor present? It was sitting.

Okay. Uh Vince, would you like to please lead us in the pledge of allegiance? Can we do the roll call first? Certainly. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Uh Chair Routin present. Vice Chair Loy here. Member Avery. Member Baker.

Member Batty here. Member Boomer Schlaggel here. Member Borin. Member Clark. I'm happy to be here. And just to remind everyone to use your microphone. so that they can hear you on Zoom. Member Clayton here. Member Coleman here. Member Deppler here. Is on is on Zoom. Uh member Helffrey here. Member Hman here. Present. Member Rubis

here. Member Jackson. Member Con. Uh, member McCuchen here. Member Member Mets. Member Pic here. Member Rambo here. Member Rain. Member Shiken here. And I believe we most definitely have quorum this evening.

Thank you very much, Vince. Would you please lead us in the pledge? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic which stands one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Moving on to the November minutes. Do we have uh motion to accept?

David moves. We have second. The motion does. Thank you. Second vitr.

Yes, ma'am.

Yes. About the minutes. Um just one comment that um at one place it says I think it's in uh 6A says we have an uh emergency operations plan. Now it it refers to emergency operations plan, but we have an emergency operations plan. Now, we were talking about adding the emergency contingency plan. So, just just to be clear on that that we already have emergency operations plan and it says we were going to develop one. Joe, does it make sense? Okay. Thank you. Okay. Wrap up of the

second. The first and the second. Okay. Did we get to the second? Yeah. Okay. All right. Vote. All in favor?

All opposed? Abstain. Thank you. Okay, wrap up of community service element. Joe, if you please proceed. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Before the department begins the discussion on the community services element. Obviously, the Department of Planning and Parks would like to thank you all for being here tonight. We do appreciate it. I know it's getting close to the holidays, but obviously this is a great turnout. So, thank you very much. Secondly, over the course of the last several meetings, we've had some issues with sound in the community room, particularly if someone is on Zoom or views the YouTube after the meeting, it's very difficult to hear what's being said. In fact, M. Baker said she had her computer all the way up as volume as high as it would go and still barely could hear anything. That's been addressed. We had a technician come in the other day and it appears that if we go back to the community room um we'll have better sound there. So, thanks for your patience as we work through that. And as Miss Clark mentioned, first and foremost, for folks to hear on Zoom, Zoom, pardon me, you'll need to speak into your microphones. If you're not familiar, there's a silver button. You push the button, a red light goes on, that means you're live and we'll hear everything you say, and everything you say will be recorded. So that's the good news. And then finally, one of the references in the transportation element speaks to a resolution that was approved by city council back in 1998.

It's 1998-05 and it deals with the city council's position on highway route highway 109 and how it should be handled in the future since it's referenced in the transportation element. I failed to include it in the packet of information you receive in advance of tonight's meeting, but was reminded by Miss Clark. And so a copy was placed at your chairs tonight so you could reference it as we discuss that particular item in the element and then obviously have it for a reference point as we move forward through our approval process. So thank you Miss Clark. Much appreciated. As the group members will recall, we had a very productive meeting in November and were able to complete the two remaining goals in the community service element along with all the objectives and policies in that same element. As I say, it was very productive. Also, that is one of the elements that has more objectives and policies than some. And that meant from the perspective of the department took us a little longer to incorporate the comments that were provided and in introduce the changes to the goals, objectives, or policies were ever applicable. All that said is meant to tell you that you received it yesterday and that's not the best case scenario from the department's perspective. In the email I sent yesterday with the attachment of the updated community services element. I did mention that I don't want to spend a great deal of time on it given that

you had just received it within hours of the end of business day and today for most of you it was a work day. So, I understand that it may not been something you could squeeze in, but I do just want to give some highlights so that um as you review it and we return to it in January, just to ask if there are any major omissions, changes, additions, etc. Um that you can at least understand what was done and why it was done in that particular way. So, community services. So, in terms of the golds, as I said, we had two remaining at our November meeting. We actually went through those pretty quickly because we retained them. There were revisions and the revisions for the most part were a consensus among the group. There is one new one and it speaks to the emergency management plan and support of such and its systematic update along with training of those officials that are responsible for its implementation. There was also a second new goal added and that spoke to our public easements alongways and other public uh parcels of ground or land areas. And this is something we've discovered over the last couple of years as we implemented the roll out of high-speed internet to the rural areas, which was then followed

almost immediately by more traditional providers in our areas east of Route 109, adding fiber to circumstances that already have it. The short of it was a lot of different contractors affiliated with major Fortune 100 companies basically going around in our right of ways and disturbing things sometimes not um ultimately restoring them to the satisfaction of the property owner or property owners and causing some duress here at city hall and trying to address the concerns of our residents. I will acknowledge that the department of public works and our city administrator did a wonderful job of kind of corraling all of this midstream and we now have a process I think that works very well and that process generally starts with the general contractor for the individual company providing the internet access or utility installations meeting with the city first before they get out on site. major coup I think for the perspective of the city. We jumped into the objectives. Um as you can see many were retained. I would note that one of the key discussions in November was I objectives one, two and three. The department had mentioned potentially consolidating them and as you can see one was eliminated objective three. The other two were retained. The content of objective three was added to objective one. Moving forward with the other objectives, again we retain most couple with no changes and others with revisions. The policies we spent a great deal of time on just by the number of them. I believe there's 11. And of those, some

were again retained, some were removed. Um and for the most part the removals reflected the concept of cons concurrency which was introduced into a combined objective. Again number one from the perspective of the department we did at the conclusion of the policies add a new statement and in that particular instance it was from the group and it relates to accessibility Americans with disability stand act standards and ensuring that what we do in terms of community services prioritizes inclusion and making sure that individuals that need access, need assistance have that assistance pre-planned and proactively. So again, I think we accomplished that. One last thing I do want to mention about community services and that is occupancy permits. We've talked about this I um to a degree under the planning element. In the planning element, you were told that recently the city had adopted an occupancy permit program, but it was limited to rental properties. Regardless if it's a multiple family development such as carriage crossing in the harbors of Lake Chesterfield or a set of condominiums which exist in the villages of seven the seven villages of Cherry Hills or more importantly in many ways single family detached dwellings in our subdivisions throughout the city. So we have an occupancy permit program. As part of that, city council did explore doing it for owner occupied

units. The city council chose not to pursue that and that was a recent decision coming to conclusion at the start of 2025. So you'll see in the policies that particular one has been removed for the direction I believe of the of the group as part of our discussion. Suffice to say, uh, I wish we had more time with this. Um, I'd like to spend the rest of our meeting if we could on the transportation element. Mr. Brown, our director of public works, is here tonight to assist in that discussion. And for the most part, I hope in many ways he leads the discussion or responds to questions more so than the department of planning. Um, but I would offer to you if there are any omissions, anything that the department interpreted incorrectly from the discussion or something that just um need needs to be added. This is certainly an opportunity to identify those wearing errors, but again, you'll have between now and our next meeting to review it more thoroughly and provide any input you would like. If you do have input during that period of time over the holidays and thereafter, you could provide it to the department um in advance of the meeting so we can incorporate it into the materials we'll provide that night. That'd be great. And um from that perspective, we'll send out an email right after the first of the year reminding you as well. And with that, Mr. Chair, if there's any kind of general comments, specific omissions, glaring errors, which I do occasionally, more so often than not, um we'd like to hear about it tonight.

Well, with that, we'll jump into the transportation element. Again, I've mentioned Mr. Brown is with us tonight. Mr. Brown is not only our director of public works, but city engineer, and he has the distinction of being a PTOE, a PTOE. So PTOA PTOE stands for professional traffic operations engineer. So yeah we are we have the benefit of having what I would consider probably one of few experts in the region sitting with us tonight. So in terms of the transportation element just some general comments. First and foremost, this was part of the original master plan, the one of the first five elements and in many ways it was one of the more consensus building components of the first master plan. Obviously, when we did the environmental element, there were those that didn't support extension of sanitary source west of Route 109. There were those that supported groundwater wells because it's better than county water. There were those that argued about too restrictive policies on certain properties that had slopes, soils, other characteristics that would preclude their use for anything other than 3 acre or greater size lots. We went into the planning element and we talked about town center, which today seems kind of an innocuous topic, but Town Center wasn't. And in fact, we completed the Dewani plan. We were ready to present it to the planning and zoning commission one night at Abler State Park at their visitor center and several of the planning and zoning commission members said couldn't support it. We

needed to step back and we spent a year the volunteer group working through the concerns of the dwading plan. So it was adopted actually in 1998 almost two years after the master plan. So suffice to say the rallying point in the transportation element was state route 109. It was the impetus in many ways for the incorporation effort which was successful and in to many people still a major concern relative to an outer belt eventually being developed in the city of Wildwood. Again I reference the resolution that was provided at your chairs tonight. So the transportation element in many ways is a four component. There's the goals, the objectives and policies that we've worked with in each of the elements previously, but there is also a description of our arterial roadway system. The St. Louis County call service the highway assistance plan and they use that to assist the department of planning, the development community and residents and understanding what road improvements are being programmed for the future. Ours isn't necessarily as detailed as that, but many of our regulations are different in some regards if you're along an arterial road. The example I use often is if you're on an arterial road and have a commercially zoned property that's authorized for signage, you can have larger sized signs because of the arterial nature of the road. An arterial is defined in the element, but for for the purposes of tonight's discussion, those are our major roads and we'll go into those. And Mr. Brown I think did a wonderful job of updating

them to reflect the changes that have occurred in on many of the rightways over the last 10 years. So ele four elements or four components to this element. Starting with the goals um the department is recommending along with public works that it be retained and certain change is be introduced to it. So, as you can see, it now reads, "Ensure that city streets, sidewalks, trails, and bridges along with other publicly owned infrastructure are adequately and regularly maintained throughout Wildwood. I will say that it is a goal and it's a goal I think we've achieved um many, many times over each and every year. Mr. Brown manages a concrete slab replacement program for our traditional subdivisions. We regularly resurface our uh rural roadways with asphalt and improve their widths often by extending the the asphalt pavement um further off to the shoulders so to speak than not. We do sidewalk replacement. We do uh storm water improvements within the rideways of Wildwood. And so in many ways we have a very proactive program. A lot of the bicyclists that come and visit Wildwood really like our asphalt streets in the rural areas because they are very smooth, well-maintained, and generally safe. Other than the vehicles on them, no editorializing. My apologies, Mr. Brown, anything you'd like to add?

Um, no, Joe. Um, you started us off quite well.

Thank you. Um, the next goal relates to roadway projects need to be appropriate to the character of Wildwood. So, this was added in 2006 and modified slightly in 2016. And there was a debate over the years about do we really make our rural roads safer by widening them, replacing one lane bridges, addressing sight distance concerns, etc. Or do we improve them to current standards? And I'm I I'm sincere. It wasn't that that group that advocated for rural roads staying rural were um not supportive of protecting our residents and ensuring their safe um safe driving conditions. Their concern was if we start widening roads that leads to sight disturbance, it leads to tree removal. It really leads to a lot of different things and that ultimately could change the character of the area. Also, there was a group that advocated that as you improve street, you increase the speeds on street. So, there may be a diminishing balance there. You've improved this the the alignments, the visibility, the surfacing. You've made it easier to go faster and in some instances that may not be the safest approach. So that said, the intent was is to with this goal is just to make sure that we always as part of that checklist when a new project or a resurfacing project or whatever the situation may be in terms of project it in that list of things that's reviewed, we always look at the

character of the area and where the department are recommending be retained. Um number three I call the po Paul vojakowski uh gold and that talks of multimodal options for transportation for our residents, visitors, guests and businesses. Paul Woodjakowski, God rest his soul, was a big advocate of many um different approaches to getting to and from where you're going other than a vehicle. And he is one of the reasons besides Mr. around that we have um u metro transit serving portions of Wildwood particularly the St. Louis Community College Wildwood campus and he advocated when on city council for our trail network and its expansion whenever we could um I think it is what distinguishes Wildwood from others Mr. Brown. Any comments on golds two and three?

Um, not at the time being, Joe. I don't think so. But I would I would concur with your assessment with regard to Paul. Paul was a strong proponent for multimodal approach for transportation.

Yeah. And he did it with a very soft glove on his hand. But, uh, I do remember getting chewed out a couple of times about some decisions we were going to make, particularly about Old Fairway Drive. If you drive on Old Fairway Drive, it's a two-lane road and basically a 70 foot rideway. We were going to have a center turn lane and you thought I was going to like, you know, so it ended up his way because it's the best way. Um, in terms of goal four, that is the one about saved green belts, stop the otter belt and where resolution 1998-05 is referenced. Did you have some microphone? You mentioned bystate and and their access to the our community and the pe maybe this in the goal area this is not the appropriate place but you know I think I see these great big buses drive through Wildwood with either one two or nobody on board um we don't control byst state but I just wondered what the you know these smaller buses that they use, the rental car companies and places like that use at if they wouldn't service this area w with those, I think it would be a win for them. The second thing is is I think the city could do a better job in promoting bystate usage by publishing schedules, routes. You know what's a what's possible for somebody in Wildwood to get someplace? Where could they get to without a vehicle riding public

transportation? I mean, I I see it all the time and I just wonder does it just come from like Highway 40 and Ballas to the college and then back. That's all I All right. So, it's been a long time since I've taken it, but I have taken the bus that ends out here with one or two people on it usually, and it that's because we're at the end of the line. It goes to the college, turns around, goes back to the Metroink station in Maplewood. When I've ridden, the couple times I've ridden it, I've gone all the way to Maplewood and it's much fuller when you get down there. The it because out here because no one's hardly taking it because you can only go down Manchester. It It's Yeah, it's just the last few people using it. Trust me, it gets busier as it goes east. May I make a comment?

We talk about multimodal transportation. Uh should we address some place golf carts and ATVs? If you look to the east and to the west, you see them. You don't see them in this area yet, but they may be coming with the permission of the chair. and then we'll um Miss McCutchen has her hand raised. Um the planning and parks committee approximately two months ago asked that that the issue of golf courts, golf carts and UTVs be considered again. It was last considered in 2019 and the city council didn't support authorizing them on public streets. It's back for reconsideration. Um it will be at the board of public safety this month. Mr. Brown staffs that board and we'll do the first presentation to them. We're also reaching out to the county police Wildwood precinct. Uh we are going to ask Metro West Fire Protection District if they have any opinion because obviously we all share these roads and we want to make sure that emergency vehicles aren't obstructed or certainly there isn't a problem. So, we're going to reach out and throw a pretty wide net to get input relative to that. So, certainly we can add it um as we go along. I think there'll be a decision on whether they are allowed on the roads or not before we're finished with our document.

Let me grab Deborah. Yeah, I want to just go back to the um bus buses as a transportation. I was going to ask, do we have any data on that? Do we know how many individuals actually um utilize the bus in the Wildwood area? Miss McCutchen, I don't have it, but we can certainly between Mr. Brown's department and the Department of Planning, we'll get that information and provide it to you can so you can kind of see the trends in writership and current levels.

Thank you. because I'm along with a couple people who said they see the bus and there's nobody in it. Um and I know we've got the bus stop on um 100. I've I'm not there all the time, granted, but I don't think I've ever seen a bus parked there or picking anybody up. So that would be good information. Thank you, Joe. You're welcome, ma'am. And we'll get that as soon as we can.

Well, I have two comments real quickly. My comment on the bus will be that um the people that I see riding the buses are the people that service our businesses. And so I I think it's a necessary thing that we have out here. And that's just that was just that's just my opinion. My other question is Mr. Vinich, when you're addressing things with the city council about the transportation regarding the golf carts and UTVs, um, another thing I would I would ask is what what is how they address the the electric bikes and scooters. Um, I know that some scooters only go up to like 35 miles hour and so if they would actually consider letting these things ride on the roads, is there a limit to what roads they can be on? And how do you enforce that? Um, and you know, if they're on the roads, then is it that nobody under 16 can be driving them? I mean, those are all questions I would I would be concerned about. Thank you, Mr. Vich.

Um, and a key point I didn't add to the discussion on golf courts and UTVs is that the proposal from planning and parks committee is to limit it only to town center. And so that's the discussion. Elsewhere in the city, they would not be authorized. Well, in Town Center, do we have any roads over 25 miles per hour? Certainly.

Right. And so, how fast do those other items go? If you know, I don't I don't know. I'm just asking, but I have I you can drive through Forest Hills and see people driving their golf carts and they frighten me. So, I'm just curious, you know, what are the speed limit issues on those items and how does that mesh realistically with automobiles? Just as a footnote, we do have regulations for ebikes. We thought we got in front of this issue, but then came along electric bikes and and others. Um, and we are having some issues with it. The police will identify those. So, like I say, um, we'll take that into advisement or other additions.

Right, Rob? Yeah. Um Vicky, I have a there it there happened to be a very easy to read and informative um major article in Sunday's New York Times magazine and I will copy it and send it to everybody because it's it's it's really good information and it talks about the speeds and the um the the major differences between crashing your bicycle and crashing one of these ebikes and so forth. It's really good stuff to have and I will also send it to the planning and parks um group uh or send it to you and you can distribute it as you as you will. Well, thank you very much. Because it'll be helpful. Yeah, very much. Thank you.

Yeah. Do we have any input as to the use of driverless vehicles in Wildwood? That's in the news tonight. Uh they're hitting more kids are doing it. They're they're very safe, but at the same time, they're not showing to I don't know if we have any opportunity to have input locally on that. Rick, have you honestly locally I've not had any discussions or heard of any um information relative to operating on Wildwood Streets and and I don't know that Captain Mandel would have a different any different information.

Well, we'll certainly check into that. I did notice I think last week or on the weekend STL today said something about Whimo coming to the area. So they're here. Yeah. Yeah. And and this is a 10-year deal. So I would imagine the next 10 years some form of that will be right here with us.

Very good point. So just to summarize before we um and there may be more comments um we're going to get you information on the wrership of Metro at least here in the Wildwood portion of the route. Um, we'll also I'd like to think um be able if Metro stays in Wildwood be able to promote it more by providing schedules um routes etc etc. Um golf courts and UTVs will pass on the the issues relating to scooters and other um electric powered vehicles whether it be a golf court, UTV or whatever. Um and then as we just discussed, we'll look into that other item.

Um just brainstorming this whole thing as it seems we're becoming a society that's more dependent on delivery vehicles responding to us. I don't know if we need to incorporate any discussion regarding that. And likewise the use of drones for delivery purposes. I'm I'm again I'm just trying to be forward thinking on what we're going to see in the next 10 years. Who knows what that will be, but uh yeah, who knows what the future holds. Excellent suggestions. Well, we'll take a stab at them.

Okay. Um Route 109, stop the outer belt, stay the green belt. If you read the resolution at your leisure over the next month or so, you'll see that part of the rationale that ultimately led the city council to support adopting this was the fact that if the region continues to add additional major transportation corridors further and further west or out, What does that do to the inner sub the city of St. the inner ring suburbs and then those suburbs that were once ex urban are on the fringe. And so the the allocation of resources to new new infrastructure further and further out has a detrimental effect at least from the perspective of the council in 1998 to the region. And so it was promoted as we're doing something here to protect the region and have reinvestment in areas that are not further out but further in. Um so there's a lot of information in those three pages that form the resolution. Stop the outer bell. Sure. He's not

just um on that microphone. Save the save the green belt. Stop the outer belt. Is there any document that um kind of gives an overview of what that is? Because over the next 10 years, we've got people coming and going and a lot of people won't understand that terminology. Maybe if we have something on the website that we can link this to, it would be helpful.

Yes. Um, my recollection is is the group that formed to basically address the proposal to widen Route 109 by the Missouri Department of Transportation did a lot of things. I'll track that down. That's Thank you. Um, page two. Um, the last of the goals is one that Mr. Brown and I thought were appropriate and I depended on Mr. Brown a great deal um that evaluate the city's publicly owned infrastructure for impacts from extreme weather events and plan appropriate improvements. And Mr. Brown, I'm going to let you kind of tackle that one. Thank you.

Um thank you Joe. Um so this one was really a suggestion based on some of the extreme weather events that we've seen. I always remember when I started 10 years ago within the first month we had an extreme weather event where we had like three inches of rain over the course of 90 minutes or something like that and seemed like every road was flooded in Wildwood and um ever since then it seems like it's almost an annual occurrence unfortunately that we get at least one very heavy rainfall event and we see pretty widespread flooding local flash flooding um obviously it's associated with with a I want to say handful of roads roads. Wild Horse Creek Road is probably the worst that we have out there, but any number of roads experience different degrees of flooding. So, that's kind of the the impetus behind this one is just to be aware of that impact and start to plan appropriately. So, we've had some discussions more recently about Wild Horse Creek Road and what we might do to be more prepared for what we know is going to occur is that that localized flash flooding, having um for example, warning signs in place, simple things that we can do that are not cost prohibitive in the field that we can install to provide greater notice or prevent the possibility of someone getting in harm's way. So, that's kind of the thought on that one. I have a question.

Yes, sir. Rick, do we have any electronic monitor training along those areas? That's a lot of times you'll see at at a bridge, you'll see a little antenna that broadcasts to local police department or whatever. We done anything like not not as this not as the city of Wildwood know. That's exactly what we're kind of looking at possibly on Walt Horse Creek Road. Yeah. Teresa,

the um in addition to the plan appropriate improvements, would it be um Germaine to add something like planned preventative maintenance schedule so that it's not just we are making improvements to that, but we have a a periodic schedule that we um check ahead of time just to make sure it's all ready for the inclement weather. Sort of like your new um snow removal uh plan that uh you know, kudos to you for coming up with this plan to to be prepared and ahead of time.

Um certainly not opposed to that being added if that's the desire of the uh the the group. Um, I would say we we effectively do that currently. We may not have it documented necessarily, but if if that's the desire, I'm not opposed to having that stated or part of that um that goal. Could that be more of a policy or an objective? And remember, goals real broad and then we could narrow down on that. Put that add that in a little bit when we get a little more tight and give it a little more specific. Well, I think it would be appropriate here, but Okay, Louis.

So, it it mentions the impactful and expense. So, what is the the biggest expense to the city when these these uh conditions happen? Like where is where do we need to improve to reduce those expenses?

Well, there's a wide range of impacts I would say. um there's the immediate flash flooding that occurs and and the results from that flooding. It can be um just generally trees down, debris on the roadway that's associated with flooding that needs to be cleaned up. That's usually the main focus once we once we see the end of one of these events is we have contractors in the field. They're driving routes. We're driving routes. We're inspecting roads. We're looking for debris, fallen trees, rocks, mud, you name it on the road that needs to be cleared up. It's a hazard. Um, so that's probably first and foremost, but we also see as we see as a city as a whole, erosion that that results. You know, we uh we talk about it on the stream banks and that certainly is true, but we have the same issues with culverts, say that go under the road or or bridge structures or larger coververts, those kind of things that need to be corrected. And that's an expense that comes out of our budget. Um, and obviously there's potential public safety impacts. Um, when it floods and people are out there on the roads and you know there's the obvious public safety of someone driving into a flooded roadway and being stranded or worse. Does Wildwood have any

Does Wildwood have any license plate readers on Highway 100 would probably be the most logical place. Um well, as far as license plate readers, so I if you're referring to the the flock cameras, right? Yeah.

So, um yeah, WA precinct, it probably better to speak about that. So, we have I know Captain Mundell and the Wilder Precinct have worked to get some installed throughout the city of Wildwood. Um, so there are some that are out there um at different locations. I know of one on Manchester Road that's in place. I'm not maybe familiar unless Joe is of these specific other locations. I think there's one on 109 perhaps. Um but but yes, there are some that are that are out there. Yep.

Yes, sir. Um, in terms of impacts, um, there particular storm that happened when I think Rick was not even here a month. I mean, it was one of those storms that it was April, I believe, and the sky became as dark as night. Lights were on.

We received a enormous amount of rain. It actually blew out the Culver and part of the Garden Valley Farms Trail. So those are the impacts we see. Um most of our trail system is in flood plane or near flood plane. It's ground that no one wants to use and it lends itself well to the trail system. So there's an expense and I think the foresight of previous city administrators including Mr. Lee and Mr. Brown, we actually have started looking at budgeting not just for snow and ice removal, but for debris removal during the spring, summer, and fall months when we get the storms that we've been seated.

So, in in practice, this essentially is in place once you guys have had an event that's impacted the infrastructure, you've looked at ways to try and improve it, correct it, whatever. And uh so this kind of just formalizes an operating policy that exists, right? Or Right.

And I think the March tornado is probably one of the most the best examples between the police department, the three fire districts, city team members. Um they fanned out. Um public works looked at the streets, Department of Planning and Parks looked at park areas, etc. and we did a fairly quick assessment and obviously in some regards we were able to address the major problem areas much quicker than many other municipalities across the region. How does it make sense to put a priority on more of a proactive plan instead of a reactive plan? I think, you know, I don't want to I don't want to overstep because I I don't know all the all the detail, but as most of our planning once something bad happens, we know what we're going to go do to fix it versus looking at it ahead of time. looking at our total resources, looking at problem areas, and having those resources assigned to those problem areas before a problem exists. Does that make sense?

Yeah, I was going to suggest, Joe, maybe we just say under that um goal, you say proactive improvements instead of appropriate improvements. just add the word proactive maybe. Got it sir. Um, I do want to make note obviously when Rick, Travis, Robin, or I, and we we're out in the city driving by, let's say, Wild Forest Creek, and we see down trees, um, areas that are have large rock deposits, gravel deposits. We know those are obstructions in the creek and eventually could lead to the problems we have with flooding on Wild Horse Creek Road. But there's another side of it. It's like, well, it probably will. Do we spend the money to address it before it happens? And I just don't think in many ways we're in that fiscal position to do that. And that's why it's more sometimes reactive than proactive. It's where do we target our funding and where is it best spent.

So, but internally you have I mean you have somebody that can remove trees on retainer, if you will, if you remove rocks from the road for flooding. So you've done some planning regarding that that would kind of fit into this and and you know generally the areas that are tornado you can't predict flooding you certainly have an idea of where the damage is going to occur. So I think it's good.

Yeah. And Bach Fire Protection District has been an advocate of the discussions we're having about Wild Horse Creek Road for the most part from Centaur Road down to about a Ford or so. That's the general lo stretch of that particular rural road. So that's the new goal in transportation. I always leave it blank because you're a creative bunch. If you have any thoughts on a new goal for transportation

thank you chair. um uh a couple of things and I was I don't know if this will um fit in here or not but somehow some kind of communication goal that um so we can communicate to the public what is being done, how it's being done um with some of these things that are going on so they aren't just worried that oh no what if I have flooding in my in my road. What am I going to do? Just give them some if it's the internet the the or presentations or town halls. I don't know the details. It would just be some kind of communication

certainly the public. We'll see what we can do and bring it back to the group for consideration. Michael,

this really isn't a a goal or anything, but this is a complex issue because the city really isn't generating increased traffic volumes. It's the pass through traffic that's the big issue here. And that's kind of what we need to watch out for is what other communities are going to do to uh try and solve that issue. and and certainly that was if you again I apologize you got the resolution but there are a number of statements in there about widening Route 109 improving Route 100 isn't going to solve the problem on Manchester Road east of Wildwood. It's not going to solve the problems on Clarkson Road during peak hours, AM, PM, whatever the situation. It's not going to do that. And I think they did an effective job in the resolution and making a point.

Aren't we also going to when we start talking about economic development though try to capture that drive-thru traffic for the benefit of the city? Yeah. So, it's complicated. Yeah, it's called if we weren't so overbuilt on shopping anyway in this country.

Yeah. Um, vice chair, that's a good point. I was just thinking that we need a goal for that to plan for and maintain transportation system that enhances our prosperity, our our e economic vitality within the region. How are you thinking about it? Eliminate the gas tax and they don't fill up. Here you go.

Well, with Miss Clark's statement, I'll check the economic development element. I don't remember, but we may have something in there. So if not, what I propose to do with along with the assistance of Travis, Robin, Rick, Melanie is when you make a suggestion, we can write something. It's not necessarily saying it's going to end up in the document, but you certainly have the opportunity then to review it, discuss it, and gain consensus or not.

One more. One more if I could, Chair. Sorry. The um one thing that uh maybe Dr. Dr. Rambo and I have some disagreements on but but I will go with him on this that to encourage and maintain transportation system that conserves and uses energy resources efficiently. And in that um an example of putting in the EV charging station and to just to um think about the BMT as I would call it

being in automotive just the vehicle miles traveled to think about that whenever we were putting in developments. Well, the new um multiple family develop BMT vehicle miles traveled to it's u efficiency in it's like attack time so that you make sure that your your movement is less and your distance traveled is more. So you you you can get to your destination in less miles. Thank you.

Um actually thought we had something about electric vehicles, but um I'm not finding a quick skim of but um well certainly we can um visit that. I would just say that we are already implementing um that where we can multiple family development while with luxury living um at the corner main street and Taylor road we required them to have EV chargers part of their development other goals mission. Um yeah, I think Joe, does number four relate to um the electronic vehicles, the development of future alternatives to automobile transportation? Is that where you think you saw it?

Yeah, thank you for identifying that, but I say I thought we might had actually something more specific, but if not, maybe that's where we'll start looking at a possible addition or modification. Thank you. Thank you.

Objectives. Um we're heading down the funnel now as described by Miss Helper. Um the first one is existing the existing and proposed roadway network in the city of Wildwood should be designed and maintained so as safe, efficient, but also consistent with the community's long-standing historic rural character. Um, roadway modification shall be commensurate with expected traffic volumes and city standards established for these specific land use categories. I do want to note and this was brought to my attention by Mr. Brown today in 2018 when we updated the town center plan that group of volunteers asked that we do a traffic analysis slashstudy of all of town center. that was completed and it was integral in the decisions we made about the um street network map and things along those lines. Um Rick and I were talking today when the town center plan is updated, we will probably make a recommendation to update that analysis study, but we will provide that to you because there are some good recommendations in that report that may be applicable to this transportation element and may need to be drawn out and placed here. So, we'll get that information to you. Um, I don't know if it was in the original packet of information, but we'll certainly get it to you. So, thanks to Rick for reminding the department. Um, in terms of objective one, retain, no change. Uh, two, um, there are a retain and revise. Uh changed changes to the regional roadway network if proposed within Wildwood should be questioned, studied and generally dissuaded due to

known impacts such projects create and the expense of their construction and maintenance needs while other infrastructure in older areas of the metropolitan area deteriorate. Um obviously we kind of touched upon that. It's part of the stop, save the green belt, stop the outer belt. The more you expand and the less you invest in existing infrastructure, the outcome generally isn't very positive. So, it's a strong statement in terms of an objective. Does it by having that statement does it encourage I know the goal is to stop the the outer belt but does it prevent us from keeping roads such as Clayton Road, Manchester Road, Old State Road from being improved? It's a very good question and a question I would defer to the group members and and others. Um, as you know, Route 100, Route 109, and Old State Road wouldn't have the level of improvements they've had over the last couple of years if not for the city.

The city did a major component of the funding of those improvements, and they were done primarily for safety purposes to protect our residents and others that use those roadways. So, um, as I say, it's probably a little stronger than I thought it would be when I it was penciled in, but I just think often times when the city incorporated, we talked a lot about to other governments that there's good reason to save our rural area. That's where all the trees are. They're the lungs of the region. they do more to protect the region from some of the the problems of growth, cars, etc. than others. And we talked about just you don't need to build big roads out here. We can manage our growth to the road system ultimately that we think is appropriate. Doesn't include an otter belt, doesn't include multiple lane, let's say less than interstate standard roadways. So we were trying to convince the region we're here to basically help you and there's a benefit to what we do for everybody in the region and I think this is what that particular objective is still saying. Um, objective three, the city's topography and its associated fragile and rocky soils are linked to a group of outstanding regional parks located here should be protected from erosion and pollution caused by construction and use of major roadway corridors. That's the first three objectives. Mr. Brown, anything you'd like to add or something I know I probably missed? Uh,

no comments from me. Thank you. Um, again using Route 109 as an example, the outer belt as it was conceptually placed through Wildwood um went through Rockwood's reservation and Babler State Park. Wwood reservation is a wildlife refuge. It's not necessarily a active park so to speak. And then Badler State Park obviously has many of the crown jewels of the city from its visitors center to the shelters to different things that they offer in terms of camping, the outdoor school that Rockwood School District used to provide and at one time one of the better swimming pools in the region. So

all of those things would have been impacted. And when you build roads, you create more impervious surface. You create more runoff. And all those things have to be addressed. And if you don't, obviously, it can impact the pristine environments of many of the parks that are part of Wildwood. So retain was the recommendation from the department's goal. Excuse me. Objective four, development of future alternatives to auto transportation in the city of Wildwood should be explored, including potential expansion of public transit options. Um, Miss McCutchen mentioned that potentially could be the electric vehicles, charging stations, etc. that certainly could be incorporated here. Um, but obviously I don't know if golf carts and UTVs fit into that, but we're sure going to look at it.

David, I my suggestion I mean I could see the golf carts and UTVs going here, but that specifically says alternatives to automobile transportation. I would say EVs aren't an alternative to automobile transportation. They're just as big. They take up just as much space. They're they're harder on the roadways even because they're heavier and certainly they're x amount of width and x amount of length. So the lane that accommodates that electric vehicle has to be the same as a semi-racker trailer. I think the intent is good. Yeah. Yeah.

And yeah, I'm all in favor of that motion. I'm just saying that's for everything but the car.

And then the last objective, the natural vegetation and scenic views located along the city's network of roadway should be preserved the benefit of both residents and visitors and I struck through and enhanced because when Mr. Brown asked me how do you do that? Not sure how we could make nature better. So well comment I would have about that is can you make it native vegetation because on one hand you're saying leave the vegetation and then we have a whole other effort to get rid of everything that's honeysuckle and the ratford pears. So maybe just qualify it a bit.

Certainly because we are as Dr. Randall has told us for many years, native, native, native, native. Still waiting for someone to take the Bradford pair out of my front yard. The chainsaw will fail. I'll chop it up if you haul it away. And eventually, I think mother nature will solve that problem for you. Yeah. As it did in the city of Ellis. The problem is it's the best looking tree on the street. Mr. as much as I've tried to kill it. Sorry, Mr. Brown. Any uh um comments on objectives four and five.

No, I guess I questioned a little bit number five just because I struggle with how we how we respond to that one honestly. It's it's a a tough one. Um you know, we have limited resources and um it's very subjective I guess a little bit in my mind.

Deborah. Um, yeah. Uh, I Joe, we talked about this in another element. Um, and you were going to do some research on how to word it, but I don't know if this would would maybe fit in here too. Um if you leave enhanced in there when a developer does a project or when there's an area on one of our made roadways that is conducive to doing some planting um trees or vegetation or native plants. Um I I don't know if I mean that would be enhancing. I know so I know there's a budget issue. Um, but I think there's probably some other ways you could enhance it, too. Just my opinion.

And Miss McCutchen, I I don't have the planning element in its final form with me tonight, but I think we captured it in there as part of the development components, the process we exercise. If not, I've written it down here. Okay. And theation element would be the to me the next logical location to basically impose on development entities that if you're along a public street got to make that public street as pretty aesthetic and native as possible. And we started that with um the point at Brightleaf. Certainly.

Yeah. I I mean and the developer wasn't too indignant about that, but I think that's something we really need to ask all developers to do is is especially at their 100 109 um you know to put the trees back in along the roadways that they have obviously taken out. So yes, and if you all recall Mayor Bolan as part of the reserve at Wildwood, that was one of the key elements along Route 109 and Manchester Road, as soon as they can, regardless of the status of the rest of the subdivision, start the installation of the land required landscaping um post haste.

That was essentially that was going to be my comment. My apology, sir. No, that's No, you you did better than I probably would, but No, sir. I don't think so. Well, it would take me five minutes to say the same thing you said. No, not that. Always glad to hear.

Uh, Mr. R, I would stress the uh the part about native because I know that there are places along Wildwood and Chesterfield where we have put in and they have put in islands down the middle of the road and a classic example is Clarkson Road and the plants that they've put in there. I I they're out there in the summer trimming those things back almost weekly. Uh they've lost a lot of trees along there. And so I think if we do native um we have a much better chance of retaining the trees and shrubs that we plant uh rather than having to replant consistently. So I think that's a pretty pretty important part.

Roadway plantings are tough, Mr. Browns.

Um well I appreciate that, Joe. But one thing I was going to mention was along those lines and maybe this is where I get kind of turned around with this um objective is that we've done a lot of work um on our roadsides and our roadways to beautify them and uh we've done median plings. We've done u additional landscape projects on route 100, route 109 stucker road uh in numerous locations and sometimes I feel like we haven't really captured that anywhere. It seems to be a common desire to do it generally speaking and people appreciate it in general. Maybe not everybody, but um it sure would be nice to have that in here in some in some way captured and maybe that's part of number five. Um maybe it's not. Maybe it's a a separate one. But um we have certainly done that. We've invested money clearly to do that um on state roads primarily but elsewhere. David,

my one thing on these uh road improvements is that I feel like on some of them that we've improved the we've put so much in there that if you're actually use trying to use the sidewalk, they become a headache

because you're constantly dodging branches. Sometimes you can walk to a breast and then you got to someone has to move over to avoid a tree. And so I'm if we're going to do it, we got to stop doing it so to where it impacts the people who are trying to use it, not in a car. And if I could insert myself just real briefly before. So the first two phases of the Manchester Road streetscape, we followed the adopted plan for the streetscape requirements religiously. Meaning we had a vertical curb, gutter, a foot wide sidewalk, street trees, and grates. I can't tell you how many people complain about the fact that it's not an 8-oot sidewalk with the great and tree.

Now, saying that trees, we don't plant mature trees in the grates. Plant trees and we have to be patient as they grow and then we limb them up. So, as eventually you have an 8-foot corridor under the trees, it takes time and I know in phase three, Department of Public Works and our city council chose to consider a different approach and certainly that I think is premised on the first two phases and the feedback we got. So, your point's well taken and we we're trying.

All right. But but even in phase three, I don't know that's a consistent 8- foot sidewalk um through there. Well, and some of it is because of the off street or excuse me, on street parking and things, but we tried to do in the commercial area. Yeah. So, as there be available parking for some of the businesses. So sometimes there collectively you have a group building a camel and some things are great, some things aren't as great, but all in all it's a much improved street I think.

Yeah. And then I guess the other comment is there's a lot of dead stuff because if there's not an active house or business in front of there, who's maintaining it?

Well, generally the city is. And I can assure you that it is a we do pay for that maintenance and it's an it's a learning experience as well. No one and I I think I can speak for Rick, Robin, Melanie, Travis, all of the public works. We engaged professionals to help us with the selection of plantings because we I I can't say what's going to work or not work with a level of assurance to spend the thousands and thousands of dollars.

Um but as I say, um we used Lynons on the portion of phase two Manchester Roadscape down by the firehouse and I heard criticism about that. Why Lynons? And then I heard others saying and they're great for they're great for the birds. So I don't know. I don't know. I I think they're I don't know. That's the side I live on and I feels like they're half of them are barely surviving. Wow.

Yeah, that's kind of directly addressing my point. I think we have a great arborist and we should leverage him and be be more active and less passive in the language here because the reason half of those are dying is because we didn't do the prep work up front and they're trying to live in these anorobic basins of clay because we didn't know what we know now about uh the health of trees, particularly the root systems and so forth. And so we're going to spend a lot of money replacing trees and so on and so forth. But um the um the choice of trees uh Joe's right, it's going to take a while so we can limb them up and get them to be it will be a boulevard after I'm dead. Um but you may see it, right? And

well I mean I don't know when did we do phase two? What that was what about that was at least 10 years ago now was probably 12 to 13. Yeah. So, so the but you're right, those trees are they're only there's they didn't shoot up like they were intended because it's there's nothing for them to to grow in. They're barely surviving. And so, um we have to do the best we can with it. But I think a a good strong statement about you know arborist involvement from the beginning uh so that the um the the the soil and everything and the drainage is prepared as part of a project instead of trying to go in and and refit it retrofit it later. So can you do that? I mean is that

certainly okay we we can add it. And your point about Mike Walsh, our arborist, um we depend on him more so than I think um anybody realizes to help us with all the complex issues. Yeah, we Oh. Oh. Uh sorry. Sorry.

I was going back to the native Oh, I was going back to the native plants we were talking about. Is there any way that Wildwood could actually work with MOD dot when they decide to do this mass mowing? Like I see it every year of the native plants of full bloom, you know, and then here comes MDOT and these huge things just mowing it all down. And I think the idea is, you know, to let it go to seed and all that, but we don't have any any kind of influence with mod to maybe the time of year they do the mowing or um not such a wide birth of, you know, so that the native plants can come back. And

I think there's a lot of misinformation out there relative to MDOT's mowing. Believe me, they don't want to mow. So that they mow. My my point being is they do want to mow as little as possible. So they have a very minimal area that they try to keep clear, but they do that m mainly for safety reasons. So they don't want trees to ultimately grow in those areas. So they do intend them to to keep them maintained as turf grass at at a lower level. So there's no trees ultimately in those areas for safety. But trees right against the shoulder and all that. I just wonder that's what they're trying to eliminate. Yes. Y

with mod dot to kind of come up with a plan that's beneficial. Again, we usually are the ones asking them to mow because people are complaining that it's not been mowed quite frankly. Um there's a wide range of opinions about mowing out there. Um and that's just the reality. But again, they they don't over mow. They mow the minimum necessary to keep a safe roadway. Um there's areas outside that they do let go wild then people complain because we have honey soapa growing in those areas or other invasives growing in those areas. So it's a difficult situation,

right? So like the median, they they're not going to let trees grow in that median from a safety standpoint. They have to mow the median in in between the eastbound and westbound lanes. They have to keep about a 20 foot wide area off the shoulder cleared of trees. So they'll want to mow that at least usually they mow three times a year. um because they don't want trees and vegetation growing in those areas. It's just that they do it is not beneficial for the plants. That's that's all I'm saying. Michael, I had a conversation with them about that and uh they kind of threw the ball back into our court to say that it's something that we should coordinate with with them on the mowing.

See, I think that would be great. I think there should be a coordination between Who's ever in charge of it for Wildwood and MDOT communication? I have it down. Oh, well, this just me. It's my thought. I just watch them every year do it. Rick, do you want to add some?

Well, again, MODOT is a large government agency and they have policies that they implement statewide. So, we have some influence, but when it comes to a lot of those decisions, there statewide decisions that are made based on their procedures that they've determined to be best for their overall operations, not necessarily for Wildwood. They don't rely on us to dictate their schedules. They they set their schedules. Generally, we're the ones calling them saying, "Hey, it's looking really ragged. You need to mow." People are complaining. Um, and they're slow to do it. So, we're happy to see them the three times of the year that they do mow generally speaking. Um, so we do communicate with MODOD, don't get me wrong. It's just that the we're the tail and we don't wag the dog basically when it comes to MODOD.

And I think you should wrap this up.

Well, it was a a follow on um to Deborah's uh uh stuff just real quickly. Um the uh I think this is partly an education issue as people understand that yeah that's supposed to become a meadow um and not just be nasty like you know I mean okay well it's short and but it doesn't look like a golf course either and so you know restored meadow can be at 3 feet of height and it can stay there forever and you can mow it at the appropriate time every you know every year or every two years and it gets rid of the trees because they don't they don't survive the the mowing. And um I tried to adopt the right the rightway is quite large, quite wide by my home because they were planning on a two a four-lane highway. You divided highway out there and so they got all the rightway and took my grandparents home and all those kinds of things. But um I tried very hard for several years to adopt that portion of rightway that because I have hundreds of feet of frontage and they said, "Yeah, okay, you can do So, I spent a pile of money on seeds and doing all this kind of stuff and getting it ready. And every time I had it, you know, kind of up this high, Mo would come and there go my there go my, you know, all my echanatia and all my, you know, everything that's beautiful. And um they finally said what that Wildwood after 10 incidents of that, they said if Wildwood would um would sort of certify or accept um the the um you know my stewardship of that um in perpetuity and um that's when I kind of dropped it. But I think if Wildwood were to say, "Yeah, Mod, we're going to restore these. Don't mow them." I think they would actually do it. So I I don't know if that if that makes you feel any better. I'm not sure how we I'm not sure how we can get that done, but um it would be

communication on a friendly. Yes, it's it's education and communication because people people oh come mow. Well, no, it's not supposed to be mowed. And they'll say, oh, okay, fine. And I've been in other places where you see do not mow signs all over. It says it says restoration in progress or something like that in a few years down the road. You got flowers all year long. Yeah. So anyway, I feel like I was seeing those all over the place in Tennessee and North Carolina this summer. Yeah, I get it. But Joe, you want to take us to the next one?

Certainly. So that's the objectives. They're all existing. There are new no new objectives. So that's the next question. Is there anything that you as a group would like to consider adding policies? Uh the first policy uh promote a policy for the city involved with traffic needs which supports primary creation of a network of safe and ecologically responsible two-lane local arterial roadways. Key there is two lane. Make improvements required for traffic safety such as adding shoulders, turn lanes, improving configuration of intersections, replacing substandard bridges, culverts, stalling traffic signals, and implementing other topical measures that address storm water drainage while lessening flood risk. That last statement is a key one as well, and thanks to Mr. Brown for adding it. Vicki,

uh, I have a specific example I want to ask if that would fall in this category on Stucker Road. Um, as you go the LNO home that we just went through with planning and zoning, as you go from here that way and you make that turn in front of Lerno, uh, and you go down towards the farm, there is a home on the right side of the road that has a massive, beautiful tree right up against the road. literally against the road. And so it's so narrow there that when they they painted the stripes on the street, there wasn't street under the stripe. And so that road needs to be widened in that spot. It's a safety thing. If somebody went off that road, their car would drop about 2 feet or hit the tree. And so I'm just curious, is that something that would fit in with this uh this uh policy?

I believe so. And and must Mr. Brown would differ when they think it's safe. Yeah. For the most part, um I think the city of Wildwood does an excellent job addressing known safety hazards

within the right of way. Um principle amongst them are all the utility poles for the most part which are problems from the perspective of the department, but they go where they go. Uh and many of them have been placed for decades, but I think this particular one will address that. Okay, thank you. Uh policy two, the city of Wildwood should promote prior, excuse me, the city of Wwood should prioritize only limited improvements to State Route 109 as such as turn lane additions and the fourlane parkway section from State Route BA, Babler Park Drive South to Clayton Road to facilitate the safe movements of local traffic for State Routes 100 and 109. but not spend capital improvement program funds on them and put Wildwood first. And this comes from city council. Um despite um Department of Public Works best efforts, our city administrator, we got a couple of surprises with the Route 100 project. Those surprises were substantial increases in cost. And so the direction from the mayor and city council is we've done enough for our state roads. Let's start looking at Waltwood Roads and public works and planning have responded. We're looking at extending Main Street, improvements to Etherton Road in the vicinity of Cambury, Main Street, Boston, etc. So, we're taking a lead from the our legislative body.

Maybe some verbage emphasize state money for state projects. Um, policy three, oppose construction of major new highways within the city of Waldwood. Are you picking up a theme here, folks?

Rick, that's the first three policies. How would you anything that I guessed or you'd like to add? The only thing I would maybe mention real quick is I think some of that from my perspective we did put a lot of money into city roads through federal funding um applications that were submitted and we were successful on. So we were able to leverage city funds by getting federal funds and and a lot of those projects on 109 Route 100 were funded in that manner. But I would say also until MDOT in the last three years they really were underfunded and then the legislature approved a significant gas tax. So they have seen I think five years of increases at MDOT now and they actually have money. So that's even more reason to be wild at first relative to our expenditure of capital funds.

That's a very good point. For many years, priority went to the interstates as was the feeling I had and other more heavily traveled roadways. Now with the gas tax increase, um they can they can stand on their own two feet. Uh policy four, uh support the city's existing highway and street network by adopting and implementing land use policies that will promote compact concentration of the developing town center and two suburban residential areas. These policies should enable more people to walk to their destinations while also encouraging to town center to be served by other forms of access besides the automobile which could be golf carts and UTVs here. But we also have our pedestrian networks, our bike lanes, etc. as well. And that is retained with no change. Policy five, require local asset streets within individual subdivisions to be built to city standards, but consider having such roadway rays remain private and maintained by homeowners further to encourage greater control of their ultimate use and appearance except in the two suburban residential areas of town center and town center where local access street should be publicly maintained.

Teresa, I think you want to back up. Yeah, if I could back up just two um for a quick moment to on number three. I was speaking with um Mr. Lee and we were talking about this one and maybe possibly be clarify it just a little bit by adding some um maybe ring roads or beltways, highways, freeways, expressways, orbital roadways. He came up with some of those. Not just me, but just so that we're we're clear on

not just big, not just a highway 40, but the different things. And then to the next one, um sorry, you missed me on that one, too. Opposed construction. Uh oh, that was that was three. Then the other one, the the terminology walk um the more people to walk to their destination. Um, I'm not sure how to how to word it, but walk to excludes people with disabilities in um with with devices such as a wheelchair. I don't know if there's something else we could change that to so it's not um exclusive.

We certainly can. And for number five, I'm sorry, but um a few years ago, I think it was like in 2022, we had that issue with um a resident out on Hawk uh Hawk Rest who um in an easement issue, I mean an escrow issue. So giving that back, we had a lot of discussion on that at the council about um the escrow and and working with his road and the condition of the road out there. And he was the only one that lived at the very end of that road. And so the HOA didn't want to um repair that road. It was up to him. And is there something we can add so that we don't run into that situation again? So that and if a person is in an um uh a subdivision that that is they are in that HOA. I I don't know how to word it or how to do that, but I just wondered if there's a way we can prevent that from happening and that I was reminded of that when I read number five.

Certainly. And so just to kind of give a bit of background, St. Louis County platted a lot of the good number of the large lot single family subdivisions in the rural portions of Wildwood prior to the incorporation. Hawks Rest being one of them. And for whatever reason, St. Louis County didn't necessarily have a roadway standard like the city does now. We call it our rural roadway standards. And for the most part, they didn't necessarily require different plats by different developers to join the previous plats that were done by other developers. So, meaning that certain plats that were maintained by other homeowners, but they were not responsible for such. And that's the case that Miss Clark just described. And so the reason we are somewhat adamant about large lot single family subdivisions having um safe streets is for emergency access. If the fire district, EMS, or the police can't get to them, we've done a disservice. And so we require our rural roadway standards and we require new plats if not part of the original subdivision to join the existing subdivision and honor their indentures meaning that they pay for the maintenance of those streets that they use. They don't get so to speak a free ride. Deborah.

Um, yeah. Backing up again, um, the on number two, shouldn't we add something about St. Louis County roads? Certainly. They do have several in Wildwood, right? Thank you. You're welcome. Michael,

no. In my subdivision, I'd like to see or encourage some traffic calming devices to control the uh the speeding through the residential areas. Well, I we tried years and years ago. We did bumpouts. We did speed humps. We did all kinds of things on um let's say a test test. Yes. on a testing test basis and people ran into them. Residents didn't like them. Ellisville even tried it on some of their streets near Hutcherson Road where they're fairly straight. They put in some traffic calming measures. Um they removed all of them as primarily as as we did. Rick, what do you think?

People are people. Um yeah, that's a good a good question. Trevorcoming it was was very popular for a bit and there were a lot of attempts made and had some success um but also some failures I think. So um haven't had a lot of questions or concerns or requests for traffic coming from my perspective over the last 5 years or so. I think there are some areas that we could do we could have done better and we could do better in the future if we really wanted to get serious about it on some of our what I call collector residential streets like a West Glenn Farms. Um but that's you know that's probably bigger picture in the future. Um you know just those are the streets I would look first if you really wanted to look at adding traffic calming is like a West Glenn Farms that serves as a collector street. it wasn't maybe designed as well as it could have been to handle traffic and provide access and um hopefully keep traffic speeds as slow as possible. So, um I mean I'm certainly open for suggestions in that in that area, but uh it takes money, it takes some time, and probably takes some capital improvement projects to be planned.

People hate it, but they work. Well, if with the permission of the group, we'll take a look at it and bring back something. Maybe it's nothing saying we've really looked at it and it's not something that's embraced by the community or not embraced by communities like Wildwood, but we can certainly look at it.

Is it off the limits to include a police component? Well, certainly the police under community services is an intricral part and um we've talked about that and we could add um you know you can always say increased enforcement but so we'll write it down. Blood from Vicki

Mr. Vich, I just have a real quick question on number five where you say um greater control over the ultimate use and appearance except in two suburban residential areas and town center. Um are you naming land use areas like I guess my question is where would neighborhood edge do we need to add that in here or is it just a general general and it's inclusive of from downtown district to the pond historic district. So, so any of the land use categories identified in town center and the developments within it. Okay. Thank you. All included. Thank you.

Yes, David. On the traffic calming, I will say like um the ones that personally the ones that were really annoying are those like tiny little speed bumps that are like really jarring unless you're crawling over them. Like used to be on um I know I think Forest Leaf had some in the past.

Um yeah. Um and then uh Old Fairway had them at one time. But the like what you did in uh Bright Leaf where it's more of that table where it's a more gentler slope where you can drive almost the speed limit and not be jarred. Um and I think those would work better if if we're looking at them with the fire department like that's why they took them out of green drive. They were so they would disrupt. Is that the reason they put them in and took them out? too quickly.

I don't know that's the reason we took them out, but the the push and pull is that yes, the fire district and Vince could speak to this typically is not receptive towards the installation of those type of traffic coming devices. I think and so we have to work through that with them and I think after working with them generally we can they might consent to agreeing to limited uses of those devices and we have some on uh Taylor Road has has been referenced already some speed humps and they're more gradual they're not as abrupt in the transition so they're not as high maybe as some of the other ones that we started with the speed cushions were on like um old fairway and then I guess we had them on

the cushions were anything I don't know. I like when I ride in the because the the one that really bugged me was the one on forestle because it it was on a downhill and when I would ride that on my bike I I got to dive to the gutter to avoid it and I feel like those aren't safe if you're going on a bike at speed. Mr. Rain, as you can see, there's a lot of different opinions on traffic.

Item six, identify safety improvements necessary to all city maintained roadways as part of Wildwood's capital improvement program. Such improvements may include following placing antiquated bridges that are too narrow and subject to flooding. Placing covers that are in poor condition. Improving storm water drainage. Improving road alignments in places where we have repeated where have been where there are have where there have been repeated crashes, widening roads, etc., etc. So again, um I think the emphasis here and I appreciate Mr. Brown's comments is you just talking about culberts and poor condition and improving storm water drainage. I think those are key elements to improving our local network of streets, roads, and bridges. So, retain and revise as shown in the objective six, excuse me, policy six. Rick, any additions to that?

No, sir. Seven, preserve and enhance scenic environmental qualities which exist along many of the city's roadways and their intersections through the application of appropriate design standards reflecting sensitivity toward this area's unique environmental characteristics. Um I actually think we could combine this with policy one.

Yeah. Um number eight, designate certain roadways um for the city of Wildwood's arterial system and provide improvement policy for each of them. Roadways necessary to support the city of Wildwood's town center will be identified in conjunction with its own detail plan. And that again is where I mentioned we did the 2018 update of the town center plan. We did a specific study for town center alone and I'll have that to you. Um so you can have a look at it. Yes ma'am.

I think maybe add a link to the transportation element and to the transportation plan at that point. Yes, ma'am. Um, number nine, continue to promote safe roadways for pedestrians, bicyclists, and motorists. In 2006, we added a catchy term, safe streets initiative. Really don't need it. I think public works and our city council and planning and zoning commission all do a wonderful job of promoting safe roadways for everyone. And I think the route 100 project is an very good example. The addition of the J turns,

left turn lanes, etc. on Route 100. Those are the existing policies. Rick, any additions you'd like to or comments you'd like to make on any of those before we jump into the last which is a new one. I have no comments, Joe. Thank you, though.

And then finally, a new policy for the transportation element, continue proactive engagement of utilities that work within city-owned and manage rideways. ensure that their land disturbances minimize restorations to predisturbance levels are completed in a timely manner and oppose state legislation that further erodess the ability of the city to manage these areas and companies and that is probably the biggest threat in all of that. Yes, ma'am.

Okay. So that one the I read it over and over and over and I was I was um I kept getting stuck at one a couple of places in that and restoration efforts to predisturbance levels and understanding how we um how we determine those predis predisturbed levels. Uh, I understand it, but um maybe if we added in there the established predisturb disturbance levels because I know that now we've got that new procedure where the contractor and the the um the resident, they get pictures, they you know get it verified, but to have it established before the incident happened.

Certainly. and then oppose state legislation. I think that can be mis misunderstood to oppose state legislation since we've got the um preeemption law, you know, to that you can't oppose something that the state has already legislated. So maybe change it to something like oppose the creation of state legislation. And last night we heard from our legislative consultant and there's a there's laws of foot that would require the city if we do a project on our right of way and have to move the utilities we pay for it which is not the case now. So and just to give you a sidebar

who we call who do we call to address that with our state legislator? Um I believe we don't have a representative but right now with right I think also we should post someplace mo modat's phone number so we can call them at at at will as well.

So idllically we began our Manchester road street shade project with the first phase and that first phase had overhead utility lines and we were going to underground them and make it an idyllic setting. What we found almost immediately is there's the project cost, there's the utility cost, and in this case, the utility cost was as much as the project cost, which meant we couldn't do the project if we undergrounded the utilities. We minimized those crossing the rightway. Congratulations to public works and the directors that preceded Mr. Brown, but we can't put them underground. And if we have to start paying for relocations on our streets, it's wildly expensive. Any other new policies that have come to mind through our discussion? Mr. Chair, it's about 8:20. If we jump into the discussion of the arterial system both north, south, east, and west, we'll probably go over. I would suggest maybe this is a good time to conclude.

I would absolutely second that and would like to open the floor if anybody has any miscellaneous comments they'd like to address in the next five minutes, we can. Other than that, we'll call it a night.

Well, there's a couple of items I'd like to mention. Again, the narratives, those kind of introductory paragraphs to each of the elements. I created a couple of them. They've been reviewed by some of the members of the group. Thanks to Miss Clark and others who provide comments. We're not forgetting them. I mentioned this at the November meeting. I'd like to get through the elements, the goals, objectives, and policies. Get those squared away. move into land use because we have a group of property owners that are waiting for their day in front of you to basically make their pitch. And then we also, as I mentioned, have the open space and recreation element ready to go and that'll be provided to you as part of our next meeting. So, we'll go over the community services, any of the comments I receive relative to its final draft. We'll have the arterial discussion and we'll have the changes or at least information that you requested regarding the transportation element and we'll jump into the open space as well.

Deborah, do you still have your hand up? Guess not. Becky, no, I don't. I put it down. I was just going to um when we were talking about the speed bumps. Forceleaf Parkway no longer has one. Um, and I don't know if you want to Joe give me you want me to give some background on Green Pines, but since we've already passed that, just let it go. I'll leave that determination up to the chair. Well, we're past it. Thank you, Vicki.

Mr. Vich, I I I don't know if this is appropriate here or not, but since it's transportation, nowhere in here does it address any sound that has to do with transportation. Is that we addressed that I believe in another element right in the planning element we talked about not only the landscaping along edges of rightway as part of development we also talked about sound mitigation along these arterial roads and how developers treat it and how when projects are done by either count state county or us what we might be able to do to mitigate sound on adjoining properties okay thanks I thought we did but I wasn't sure thank you Travis do we have any public comments Uh we have no others attending online besides the group members.

Do you have a motion to adjourn? Mr. Chair, yes. This is the last meeting of the year before the holidays. The Department of Planning, Department of Public Works would like to wish you all a happy holiday season. Vice vers. Next meeting January 21st. Do you know any projected dates beyond that? Just January of 21st. You don't have to be made for the next meeting. Okay. You said those tomorrow. Yes. The city council adopted the calendar just last evening um for the year. So we can provide this to you tomorrow.

I second the motion. Okay. All right. Everybody be careful going home. Thanks for coming. I I