Master Plan Citizen Oversight Group - 2026 - Regular Meeting

We have a quorum. Thank you very much for coming. Happy New Year. I think there's a lot of change in the wind. You look around, you see the village green, you see that apartment complex and things are moving and shaking and we're going to be part of that. So, thank you again for your participation. Guess mayor is not available this evening. No sir, but thank you for asking. No, thank you. Melanie, if you would please give us all call. Chair Ren here. Vice Chair Loyal here.

Member Avery. Member Baker. Member Batty. Member Boomergel here. Member Borne. Member Clark here. Member Clayton. Member Coleman here. Member Dler here. Member Hrey here. Member Hman. Member Rubis here. Member Jackson here. Member Con here. Member McCutchen

here. Member Mets here. Member Pick. Member Rambo here. Member Ren here. Member Schiken here. And we have a quorum.

Scott, would you please lead us in the pledge, please? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands nation under God and indivisible with liberty justice for all. Sir, do we have a motion to accept last month's minutes?

Second. All in favor? I All oppose. passes. Joe, if you like to lead us into this evening's activities, you please give us a I'd like to every meeting start with you and a quick update. I don't there will be lots left. So, if we could do that first, that would be great.

Certainly. Well, before I kind of give you an overview of the progress we've made over the last year, and it has been a year, started the latter part of January 2025. You know, it's getting to be the latter part of January 2026. So, we've been at it about 12 months. And I think we made good progress in terms of where we had hoped to be by this time when we talked last year. Um we were thinking we might have a draft document in hand and be prepared to go out to the public and garner input from them. But I think the overarching factor that um makes this department and this director me feel good is you really kind of dug into a lot of tough issues and you come back with I think some great solutions to those tough issues that'll carry Wildwood well pretty well next 10 years. So speed is always something that obviously we look at the the tortoise in the in the slowest race but I think quality over quantity has ruled here and I think that's really an acknowledgement to your all's efforts relative to those efforts I do want to say that we do appreciate you being here tonight we have a quorum so we can conduct business. So, thank you very much. Um, also, thanks for your flexibility. Um, if you happen to be in city hall last night or watching on Zoom, we had a problem with our technology. Tonight, we have a problem with our technology. Two different ones. There seems to have been

a gentleman in the audience last night when we were talking about data centers that warned us that Meta Microsoft Alphabet may not like what we're saying and all of a sudden our Zoom went off air and tonight our projector won't work. So I don't know if someone was listening but you warned us we didn't listen and now we're paying the price. So thanks for your flexibility. Um, we have coffee, soda, water, and some snacks over there. Assuming the small cupcakes came for Miss Clark. So, thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you.

And so, thank you.

Just in terms of numbers, there's six elements in the master plan. Tonight, if all goes well, we'll start number five. that element is recreation and open space. It is one of the shorter elements as well. So again just a limited number of goals, objectives and policies. not that it's uninforing element and that's the economic development element and that was added to the plan 10 years ago. So the newest of this six elements then that would leave land use component. We have now four letters from four different property owners requesting consideration by the group changes to the conceptual land use categories particularly the map and those relate to properties on valley road 9 route BA etc. So as we kind of stage those and get them ready for discussion meeting will be a little different. We actually asked those property owners or their representatives to present to all of you and make their pitch. I think everybody should have their day with the decision makers, not necessarily it being presented by Melanie, Travis, Robin, or I. We may bring with us a little bit of prejudice or a little bit of this or that and you should hear from them as the salesperson and see what you think. Um, in past years we've always amended a few of the properties because in 10 years things do change and

properties that once we thought weren't this or that actually are that and this. So it's kind of an interesting process that would be collectively the six elements and the land use. I promised you all that the narratives that kind of set the stage for each of the elements will be the last thing we get to because obviously we are in a year process. I promised you we wouldn't take as long as we have. So I don't want to necessarily have a lot of things going on at once. We focused on the elements, the goals, objectives, and policies. We'll complete those. we'll step back, do the land use, and then launch into the narratives and some of the appendices. So, that's kind of what's ahead of us as we start the new year. Um, certainly, it's been a bit tumultuous. Obviously, we started with a process that didn't seem to get us where we were going. We left behind our moderator Phil facilitator and you've had to depend on me and others kind of lead you through the process and that's not how we thought it would be got to adapt and be flexible and I appreciate you all day with the process and helping us get to this point. So from that perspective, thank you. Questions on anything I mentioned. All right, we have an honored guest tonight, Rick Brown, PTOE, city engineer, flood plane administrator, and by the way, director of public works. He's here tonight because we are on the transportation element. At our last meeting at the

beginning of December, we made great progress on the transportation element and comments from the group members as well as the improvements to ground I think really kind of galvanized what we've doing over the last 10 years in terms of improvements to a lot of our roads, bridges, streets, trails, bike lanes, and storm water drainage that affects all of those. You see that as a common thread now due to Rick's input many of the goals objectives and policies talking about storm water manage the things that we need to do to make our roads safe from these extreme flood events that we've been seeing seems like more so in the last 10 years than before. It's probably not the case but it just seems that way to me. So tonight there's two components to the transportation element. With Rick's assistance and primarily Rick, we're going to go through the arterial road system. And those are the roadways that have been provided to you. They're categorized in two two two in two ways. North, south, east, west. from from the perspective of the department. Like I say, I'm going to depend on Rick to kind of um answer any of your questions and respond to any of the changes, but I do want to just talk real arterial arterial roads are important. This comes back from 30 years ago. 30 years ago, u the arterial road network was critical to all of us because in many ways that's how you prioritize your planning, design, engineering, and funding seem to head toward those roads that carry the greatest amount of traffic or

offer access to commercial and institutional uses, those things that are core to a community. And finally, in many ways, um, we want them to be the same because of those circumstances. The second is in our zoning ordinance, oftentimes we treat businesses and institutional uses that are located along arterial roads differently in terms of signage and some of the allowances than we do elsewhere in in Wildwood. And that's because on arterial roads again we have more traffic, higher speeds and so the circumstances are different and necessitates a little different approach to signage and some of our other standards and requirements in the zoning ordinance. So that's why arterial roads are very important place because they are a component that we spend a lot of time talking about in terms of planning, design, engineering and funding both through a capital improvements program, the five-year capital improvements plan and now our strategic plan. Then our ordinance actually gives um some accommodations to properties, businesses, uses along the federal roads. So the list um that was the you received this on Friday. You received the full packets of the speeds yesterday. Taking a bit longer to catch up on the goals, objectives, and policies, but I knew we were starting here, so you've had this hopefully enough time. Rick, I'm gonna kind of just go through the east west arterials. If you have some thoughts explanations, I'm gonna defer to you. So, east west, so Clayton Road and as part of the description, the Department of Public Works and the Department of Planning, they've

identified them as either county, state or city. Clayton Road is a county arterial still retained it 30 years ago after the incorporation road state road and ruck road I believe are the only county roads that remained that are maintained of that entity wild creek road it's a combination it's a state maintained road portion of wildlife also a city man road apologies to Robin It should say parentheticals historic route 66. It's a wild state route 100. It's a state maintain roadway and obviously a major arterial through wild and state highway T St. Alburn's road whatever flavor you prefer. I hear both. It's a state maintained roadway. Main Street in Wildwood, one of our new roads. You drove on it probably to get here tonight. And then finally, Milrose Road to State Route 100, another city street. We made some modifications to their descriptions. Much of that came from the assistance of the Department of Public Works. So, tonight we have those changes before you for conversation and discussion. Again, as promised, I'm including those that have particular interest to him or those that may need to be removed from the list or those that may need to be added. So, thank you, Mr.

No, I don't know that I have any specific comments to add relative to these. Um, one thing I might mention is Manchester Road is what most people think of as Old Manchester, but it is Manchester Road from basically West Glenn Farms from Route 100 where it splits. It's the old highway, old highway 100, but a lot of people call it Old Manchester. It's really Manchester Road. Runs all the way out through the through the city limits all the way out basically Franklin Town. And it is, as we know, historic Route 66, the original location. So, as you see all those signs as you travel from downtown St. Louis out here, you see here, uh, Route 66 here, Route 66 there, here, there, everywhere. We have the original location where all start question if from your perspective perspective, Mr. Brown, is there any thought on changes to the list on who owns what and is it even feasible to make a change if we thought it would be beneficial to the city? Well, I can't say that there's been any recent discussion about transfer of roads either from the city to the county or the state or vice versa. Um, usually it's easy to give away a road. It's not very easy to find people to take them. So, usually when that usually when that occurs, it's been my experience that it's more of a transfer where agencies agree, I'll take this off your hands if you take this off of my hands and it evens the playing field in that process. So, one person, one entity doesn't lose

in the process. So it's your perspective that you would not recommend any changes to who owns what today?

Not in the general sense. No, there are there are areas on Route 100 um that could be debated in terms of mod currently maintains them. Would it be better for the city to maintain them? And I'm talking about old remnants of connections. Um those kind of things. I could see an argument that the city take them over ultimately um because mod tends to ignore them. They don't make them a priority and and sometimes they let maintenance can lapse. Um you know the the biggest issue I think all of us have is agencies our budgets are limited. They're constrained. So maybe there's a road like Rob Ba for example that I could see being a city roadway. I don't know that's going to happen. I don't know that we really want to take that on either because it's it would be a significant impact from a maintenance standpoint long term. Old State Road would be another one where in some respects there are folks that would say we should maintain Old State Road because they don't like the amount of truck traffic on it say and they feel we can we can discourage that practice. Well, the county has the contrary view on that. They see it as an important arterial road from their perspective. They want to keep it open. I think that generally speaking should have access to it. So I guess short answer is I don't I don't know of any in particular right now.

You were just mentioning 109 and BA. So 109 is state. What is BA? State. It's state as well. So they'll maintain that roundabout. Oh yeah, absolutely. I mentioned I've got track, but 100, that section of Truman Road right there at Route 100 is another example. Mod maintains that short section of road and it's probably a section that if anything the city should take on. Now it's theirs. It's in their system. I don't know if they would entertain the city taking it over or not, but you could make an argument that we should probably maintain it. Take over what?

The section of Truman Road right there at West Glenn Farms. Oh, yeah. Teresa, so I'm confused. Why does um 100 stop at T? The two three the dual lanes, two lanes. But where where does it talk about? We could probably um add a little more clarity there because the four lane stops at State Highway Ch, but it actually continues as a two-lane through to the county line. So, I could I could see that being a change they make.

One other question. um on Wild Horse Creek Road, where exactly is it that it's it's a state road and not a state and a wild basically the new roundabout that was constructed this year. Everything say to the east of there is it east or north towards Chesterfield Valley that is all CC Wild Horse Creek Road. It's all state maintained. And the other direction is the city wild. Okay. Yeah, Michael,

I don't know if this is where we should bring these items up, but on Clayton Road, I was wondering about parking the the state into uh putting left turn lanes at the uh Hope Monastery, Prospector Bridge, and Thunderhead Canyon. I don't know if there's enough room to do that, but in the afternoon, people waiting to turn in there during rush hour traffic can cause quite a a delay. Mr. Rain, could you I I got at the Montasauri school, Montasuri, Prospector Ridge, and then Thunderhead Canyon.

Okay, thank you. Those are three choke points if you're uh trying to head uh west on Clayton Road in the late afternoon. Centaur city. Um Centaur Road is a city roadway. That's correct. I don't know that it's on our list. Yeah. Again, just remember we've defined these as arterials. There's collectors or residential streets. So really the master plan is focused on Ontario. So a lot of our streets that you may drive on aren't on this list, but it's still their city streets.

So who maintains um 109 going down the hill past Wild Horse Creek going towards Yeah. Centaur. That's South City. South Ethet. That is South Ethetherton. I think we referenced it on the list, but that is actually St. Louis County. That's St. Louis County. Okay. Yep. So it's it's confusing. It makes sense. Jim, that was that was the same question.

So let me rephrase my question. Is there anything that this group feels strongly enough about that we would either want to recommend we take over or it makes significant more sense that we lobby the state to take it back. and should we put it in a plan if we think there is such before we to get back to Mr. Raid's comment um I think within the last six months Mr. Brown and Mr. Lee, our city administrator, were trying to get some repairs done in the vicinity of Windrest subdivision on Clayton Road. And I think they were near pulling their hair out because there was an obvious need, but St. Louis County just wouldn't prioritize it or basically the answer we get most of the time, there's no funding for it. So suffice to say, we could certainly ask, but I think I know the answer. And there's also a potential issue there with Clayton Road given its width. Um, so you have sidewalks on each side, you have the tree area, and then you have shoulder, then the two drive lanes. be afraid that we might have to push into people's yards if we were to do something.

Yeah. I don't know if there's enough room to reline it, but at times waiting for a left turner, people will pass you on the uh the shoulder. There's actually room to make it happen, but is it safe? You know, that's the other question. Well, what we can do is at least we'll talk it talk about it internally and see if there's an approach we can take you whether it starts with Mark Carter our county council member for district 7 which

we start with the streeter the director of the department of transportation public works we can at least find out if they have any plans how's that just a thought and I I don't know if this is the proper place to bring up ideas like that.

If that were to happen, I think the time to consider it would be when they finally get around to resurfacing that road. And we haven't gotten a commitment out of the county as to when that's going to happen. Clearly, it's needed. Um, that idea has been suggested, but I think what Joe referenced is without widening the road into people's yards, you have to take away the shoulder, which people use for parking right now. So, it's likely not to be very over very highly with the local people who live on the road, right? But there certainly a case to be made for the need for it.

Um, likely if if you really looked at the crash history on the road, at least at Thunderhead Canyon, um, I wouldn't be surprised if you saw pretty strong pattern of rear end crashes and things like that that that could be eliminated potentially. So, you know, if the county could incorporate that into their work on that improvement project, at least evaluate that. I think that would be the starting point. Cool. Thank you.

I I have two things. One is about stucker. So, I mentioned that so I don't forget it. What uh who makes the decisions for the street lights uh and I I mean the signals and the safety signs? Is it the person who owns the street, city or county? Is that who determines? And the reason I ask is because, you know, they've made mod or whoever did 109 and Clayton really made a cluster of the lights. It took them about 20 years to get the timing right. And when they put in the new fixtures, they screwed the timing up again. So, I was just curious who is it? If you own the road, you're in charge of the sign stuff, too. Yep.

So, okay. And then my next question is about um Strucker Road. In this it said pretty basically it was just um drainage and I think oh here we go. I'm sorry. Limit any improvements to topical safety and drainage. And so my question is I know that there's a part of Stucker Road that is pretty close to the edge of where the creek comes by. And so, um, if we just put this in here like this, does this does that limit us or should we put that in here address any issues that have to do with the erosion? The erosion.

Well, we could be more specific, although we do say drainage, um, which I think you could probably stretch it to that. Yeah. I I don't I'm not trying to hamstring anybody. I'm just curious. Thank you.

Well, from the perspective of the department, the addition by public works of inclusion of drainage and sidewalk improvements does address a couple of the the the critical points that we've been looking at for years on Streker Road. some up by Waldwood Wildwood Meadows which is on the north end and then some down by the mosque and some of the other properties in the general vicinity. So look at being more specific. Um and certainly I would offer if you if you know those locations where there are problems if you want to take a photo and send it to us that helps. Well, I don't think there's a problem now, but I know that it's been talked about for years, and you know, when you drive that, you can kind of see how close it's all gotten. That's the only reason I asked.

And that that as we know, Cox Creek is just, you know, it's it's it's the relative you hope that doesn't show up at Christmas. So, but like I say, pick a look at it. I mean, I think public works improved the the description vastly by the additions, but if we need to be more specific and identify potential locations, we can do that. Um, certainly I'll leave it to you to decide that. Sure. Absolutely. Certainly. Thank you. Thank you.

Didn't want to leave you hanging. So again I think chair's question is are there things that need to switch switch control city or vice versa? Are there arterials? Are there roadways that should be arterials in your mind knowing that the definition was provided what constitutes an arterial roadway? Are there ones on here that probably shouldn't be arterial? Because like in the case of Milrose, and I'm not advocating this. This was done years ago by people a lot more experienced and smarter than me. It is a rural road for all intents and purposes. In some sections of it, it's very windy. Goes through Rockwood's reservation, etc. So is it years ago we had a sinkhole farm on it. It was a real challenge for everybody particularly public works. Thunderhead canyon seems to be a major thorough affair between Leighton and Manchester same way old fairway is between Old State and Manchester. Uh there any consideration of putting old fairway on that list of watching out for the future because as more and more homes are being built, the traffic is going to I I know from the time that I've been driving on old fairway to make a left turn on to Bountiful Point Circle, I I never I'm able to just go make a left turn. I'm always wait say in the morning, in the afternoon, there's it

just seems like that street is really picking up a lot of traffic.

Not sure why, but it's not school traffic. I can see an argument for adding old fairway um that would be somewhat consistent like we have Thunderhead Canyon and Farms. They are for of the collector roads that we have. They would be the higher that would be one of the higher volume takes a lot of traffic view drive up a lot of traffic not just so Mr. Rubis, I know you live along Fairway Drive, so you know it much more intimately than I, but in terms of the design, as you know, no residential home has direct access to it with their driveway. And it's a vertical curve and it's intended to basically circulate traffic from the homes onto the residential streets then to um Old Fairway Drive. Can't say that for Thunder Head Canyon. Um, and I don't know if making that an arterial is going to do anything other than ultimately upset the property owners along it. And I don't know if there's anything we could do to improve it.

Old fairway Thunderhead Thunder, right? But it's also a deer refuge. We had a plan for that. Yeah. Do we the best laid plans?

Um, yeah. My question was just um the designation of an arterial and we're talking about like old airway that's really low low speed um limit and um it's still we're considering making it more of an arterial and my I guess this is a convoluted question but I was thinking about um about uh Melrose I can't see why that's a arterial and if you're looking for some suggestion to take it out of the arterial list. I would certainly support that because it's just it's really twisted and convoluted and and lots of sort of blind corners where people's homes, you know, driveways dump right out on the road and so forth. And I can't see without removing a whole lot of the character of that road, making it any safer or faster. And I don't think there's much traffic on it. So, I I'm just kind of making the case for removing it. Uh I don't but I you haven't really asked specifically whether you know whether you want people to to provide um um recommendations to take them out of the out, you know, off the list.

I think that's what Chair Rob was getting at is is something mclassified, something not classified. And certainly I think this is the time to talk about it. So, what do we do? make a motion or I'm sorry I didn't mean to cut you off but I'm just I'm trying to uh provide that service if you're looking for a motion please I believe we have Melrose only from Allon to State Route 100 included so the remainder of Melrose would not be so it's not the entirety of Melro

was not hurting my feelings any it just seems like there's no traffic on that road and um why call it an arterial I don't know but the classification it seems meaningless we don't do You know, we're not considering doing anything to Melrose Road. So, well, it's consistent with the fact that we have Allent Road listed as well. So, but that's easier. That's a straighter road, don't you think? I mean, Allenton seems like it's more of an arterial because there's actually trucks on it and it goes a little faster. And so, it's Allent all the way up to Melrose and then Melrose up to 100. So, that whole corridor is essentially the arterial. Okay. the remainder of Mel Rose is not considered.

So to determine this, do you have like like the county has their blueprint for arterials and goes through the the flowchart of and gives all the criteria to to determine what what is an arterial or not? Do we have that? And do we have like a map that would show all of them maybe colorcoded with state, county, and wildwood so that it's easy to to point out to people? I can answer the last one. We do have a map. Um Melanie provided one to me a while back. It's hanging on my wall, so we'll get you a copy of that. Could we link it into this? Certainly.

Master plan. Yes. Yeah. Um, so on Taylor Road, are you talking about all the way from Manchester around to 109 or just a portion of that? I would take it to the Taylor Road in entirety, which would be Manchester up to Route 109. Yes. Yeah. And guess we have to answer that question. I was going to piggy back. Don't worry,

Mr. Pussen. As you know, when we did the extension of Taylor Road through the villages at Brightleaf, we upgraded the construction specification in terms of the roadway surface itself. We added the roundabouts, the speed humps at the pedestrian crossings. We did a lot of things to ensure that it isn't intended to carry a whole lot of traffic, but what traffic it does, it does it safely and manages speed. Do you know how much traffic it's

um Taylor itself? I could look it up, but it it it varies. The section Taylor out here is actually pretty heavily traveled. One of the higher volume, if not the high most highest volume city route that we have, programs we have. It lessens as you go across 100, right? It would be it would be less on the north side. Um, it's been a while since I recall checking that number, but I want to say we're close to 8,000 vehicles a day on this section out here. Uh, it's probably more two to 4,000 on the other side per day, cars per day. That's fixing to change though, right? With the construction

definition of course lanes vary. So they they're not consistent necessarily the whole segment of the roadway. So they'll be higher at the signals or at either end typically. Yes. As we as we build as we bit add development the the volumes do increase as well. sometimes.

Yeah. You know, and I'm not exactly certain the benefit or burden of reclassification, but just in looking at the definition, it would appear to me like Jim mentioned that old fairway would fit into the category of being an Ontario road. And I looking to make an addition or not. I mean, that seems like the most logical. It does get a lot the traffic going through. Eventually that can be done by a motion and second and voice vote. Yeah.

Does that do anything other than changing the the classification of it as far as uh cost of the city? Well, again, as I say, arterials are usually the first roadways that are discussed when we talk about future planning, design, engineering, and funding. So, yes, it does change it from that perspective. And then in terms of a regulatory process when we do zonings along arterials we treat them differently and mentioned signage but it's also in terms of setbacks etc. Because a higher volume removal higher volume roads make more noise or we want greater setbacks in certain instances.

I know in the board of public safety we made a policy or procedure this year classifying the priority in snow removal and ice treatment. uh and are where do the arterials fit in to that schedule? Rick, I don't remember. Is it Well, so that is definitely a part of the the the response that we developed for for snow removal prioritized streets based on their their function or their classification. So yeah, the higher the higher arterial roadways were the highest in terms of our response. Um but we also had a secondary level um street which was more of a collector roadway. A lot of those were residential streets.

Old fairway fit into that now. Do you recall? I'd have to look it up, but it would clearly either be our top or Yeah, it seems like it would probably fit the classification for at least within snow removal and ice treatment kind of in the arterial. It it certainly would in my mind. Yeah.

I would like Yeah. Um, I said a lot before and didn't get my question out, but Vince, um, uh, I'm going to take a run at what you said and try to do better. You were looking up arterial definitions. I'm looking for something that's real simple like it's cars per day, um, and some factor of the speed limit or something like that or is it just PTOE magic and we'll never get past that or can we just define um, a road as an arterial based on the traffic traffic and the speed limit? Is it that simple or not?

Well, I think these were developed quite a while ago with that master plan. So, I can't really speak Joby better to speak maybe about how they originated. But for the way I look at it, it is more if you look at our city and you look at our system of roads. Typically, when you classify roads, you start with our trail routes and those are the those are the main roads that connect large cities to other cities. Or from Wildwood's perspective, you might go from city limit to city limit either north, south, south and north, east or west. So Rick Brown write an easy description of arterials, etc. that goes in the master plan that helps us, you know, sort of cut through the the um the noise and um and be able to think about this in in in a sort of quantifiable terms. Is that possible or

I think that's possible. Yes. Okay, great. I'm gonna Can I do I need to make a motion or are you good? Go ahead. But I would also say we probably should give a definition of collector local. So you have all three. Yeah. Yeah. I mean he's the guy I I mean I just want him to do his magic and we'll have it in the master plan and we don't have to, you know, it keeping track of what we need to motion. Miss Clark.

Well, that was the first part of my question before was we have that already. Do we have a blueprint for arterials like the county has? And we it goes through and it tells here's all the things that would be would make up an arterial and then those are broken down into you know how each one of them relates. So, um, that would be what I would ask for, too. What Rob's saying, that's what I was asking for before, so that we know we're not just basing on, um, well, I think it should be because, um, I want, you know, wider streets or I think it should be because of this or that. Safety issues. If we had like the whole list of criteria that has to be looked at, I think it'd be easier to recognize which one should be and which one shouldn't.

Do you need a motion?

So again, ju just to kind of give a little background to what Rick had mentioned. Um the gentleman that assisted the initial development of the master plan relative to transportation was a consultant out of Florida named Walter Koulash. He had worked great deal with Dewani had worked a great deal with Jonathan Barnett, the two planners, national planners we engaged. So again, my recollection is the first things we looked at were traffic volumes and then um crash histories which told us to reinforce the traffic volumes because usually our more accidents you have the greater number of vehicles were on the road. At least that's what I was told. Also when we were talking there was a strategic component of this because there was a concern that St. Louis County would backtrack and start designating some of our streets arterials because they have that authority. They can make a street an arterial. And so the idea was is we'd beat them to the punch. Would that help and forstall it? I don't know. But there was some strategic remember context 30 years ago. we were coming out of um Supreme Court cases that allowed the incorporation to go to the residents. But then there was the another lawsuit by the county administration to basically forstall it. And so once they were free of St. Louis County, a lot of the incorporators wanted to guarantee that the things that they fought so hard for wouldn't necessarily be easily taken away.

So we have some potential motions. Yes. on the table. But do we need to wait for Rick's definitions before we throw out potential streets? I think one of the motions is to get the definitions

and in make them a part of the master plan whether as an appendix or in the element itself as a narrative. Just an additional comment. Um um uh I'm not sure that the consultants from Florida, which has tops out at 200 feet of elevation above sea level, was considering our Ozark type of of Melrose Roads uh in the um you know, assessment of the of the accident history and so forth. And so that needs to be part of Rick's magic and making it as simple and as streamlined as possible because we want the roads to be safe ultimately. Um uh and we want to accommodate the traffic. Those are the two things. So I if if if that if that makes sense as a motion. Scott was chomping at the bit to make a motion too, but um

No, I I wasn't I was just asking where are we back to the motion and Okay. Yeah. So, so that would my motion would be to ask Rick to bring back um a draft of of um the definitions of the various classes of of roads and you know uh the the specifications for each. A second. All in favor?

I all opposed. Motion passes. You know, just my primitive understanding of what an arterial road would be would they go somewhere kind of, you know, old fairway goes from Old State to to Manchester Road. And what about Pond Road? It goes two places in Wildwood. It goes up VA and then 100. I know. I like cutting through it. Love my taking my trailer to Babler. It's great. It gets up 109. I mean, it just seems like it goes somewhere. Will we look at that? It's a shortcut.

Well, it could certainly be Yeah. Part of this reevaluation. Um, you know, should be on there. Um, not looking at No, I have a definition. Billy I just have one point of clarification. We're asking for a definition of arterial roads and then what other collect collectors it would be arterial collector and local. So there's three types of roads we're looking for. Thank you so much. Thank you.

So are we taking any motions to add like old fairway? Are we genuis? And even Mr. Brown mentioned he thought that the criteria. I thought I thought that we said that we were going to wait until he came back with the definition. My recommendation review it again. Can Can you have that for next meeting? That's just next week. Yeah, that's fine. It's a paragraph. Okay. Yeah. Oh, really?

Well, again, through the east west arterials. There's another set or the north south. We talked about a lot about them. Rick brought up Allenton Road, which is a Wildwood Street. Fox Creek Road which is a wildwood street old state road county US Fort Wild Horse Creek Road that's a wildwood state route 109 obviously stateer road mentioned by Miss Humphrey Shepard road thunderhead canyon and west corn farms drive are part of the material system it's part of a strategic move valley road which we are about to resurface and make improvements to and then finally Taylor road which brought up. So we do have again two categories north, south, east, west.

Wow. Okay. So depending on some of these may drop off as well and we really can't necessarily decide that until we have a definition.

Yeah. And again 30 years is a long time. It keeps up with all of the classifications. So yeah, there may be some ones that'll come back for consideration some. But what you've all mentioned so far is Thunderhead Canyon Drive and that is an arterial on our our south category, old fairway drive, Babler View Drive. We talked about Milrose, but that's a limited section. And then um Bond Road was the last of those. If I missed any that need to be I hope to have um see this all on a map. I mean if you're coming back.

Yeah's not going to comment anymore. We have the map developed already which also shows all the private streets in the city. So we'll get that to you. Hopefully Melanie has the time tomorrow. Sorry. Yeah. Why are we considering Babler as an art? It doesn't go to two main again. It was just one that was mentioned. We'll put it through the analysis and that way we can basically ask ask respond to Mr. Ray's comment. Yeah, just by the fact that we mentioned it doesn't mean it's going to end up being classified as an arterial, but at least we can answer the question, why wouldn't you?

My dog and I consider that a very busy street. Write that down. I think that might be part of the criteria. Yes. Maybe we should have a new category. Busy streets. Busy streets with walkers and dogs.

So again, um, arterials were we've carried those over through two two updates. Uh, obviously we're talking about continuing it forward for this update, but it sounds like we want to basically take a little bit of a harder look at the definition and see if we've got things here that don't need to be here and things that we might have missed in the last 30 years. And you've given us some suggestions. I think between the four of us planners, we've gotten them all and we'll depend on Rick and his team to help us figure it all out. I have a question. Is there any consideration for a roundabout at um Manchester and 109 or what we call 100 or old Manchester? I'm not sure.

Um coming stage the car station. Yeah. Because coming out there to get onto 109 quite often you sit there and you don't see another car for a couple minutes until you get a green light. Actually, the original town center plan had a roundabout there. I know. Yeah. Remember Missouri Department of Transportation wasn't necessarily um ready to move forward with an endorsement of roundabouts, but well, what's one more? They're in vogue now.

I think the million dollars did identify that that intersection likely is going to need some capacity enhancements in the future. um potentially adding turn lanes or additional through lanes on 109 south through to New College Avenue. So I think that was one of the areas that was flagged as a potential need in the future. Don't know that we say it specifically in the master plan. I suppose

city council has been talking about at least at committee level is ridge road and old state road doing a round the traffic as well. It's a it's a it's old state does not have any traffic control at ridge road. So those on ridge road can can sit there during during peak hours for extended period of time for both those is that intersection under wildwoods control.

Well no um it's in Ellisville and it's St. Louis County. voted yesterday, Rick, and maybe a little tip of it touches the edge of Wildwood there at Vintage Grove, I think is the name of the subdivision, but it's one that the certain council people in that particular area have talked about as a safety enhancement. Probably ought to put it on the list at least. Well, you we do state that under the old state road that the uh the new roundabouts at Ridge Road and Old Fair Old Fairy Drive. Thank you.

If it's not in the city, other than doesn't that create in and of itself some challenges? Yeah, the answer would be yes. Vince is negotiation. Well, I mean, and even aside from that being though, why would I want to spend Wildwood's money on all those roads? Okay, it was said. There you go. The reasons why not. Yeah.

Oh, part of what we've talked about as we've gone through the different elements is kind of this philosophy first. We've we've done a lot of major movements the state arterials we've seen some money on old state road art focus I believe has shifted a bit with mayor Gitano and we're looking at extending main street improvements to road as part of town center and some other things on street and as part of our discussion of some of the elements we have identified first as a philosophy we need to employ um in at least in the next 10 year period. So makes the roundabout a rich road statement.

I just have a curious question that's really not what we're talking about. Why do we have so many otherton roads? I mean it's hard to even decide which otherton you're talking about. Bill was here when they were all made. The original road was road, right? Yeah. And then they put the they made 109 and um cut across the snaking of Etherton. And I remember it when it happened, some of it at least. And so they just cut across and so they made this this part of Etherton. They made this this part of Etherton, this part of Etherton, and this part of Etherton. But it was all the same road. It just got bicted by the upgraded 109 and a couple other projects.

Yeah. And then where it says that sign 109 in Etherton, I don't understand that either. Why is Etherton on that sign? I don't believe it is anymore. Oh, good. I think with the resurfacing project, the new sign got rid of it. Yeah, it it was confusing. I think there probably four different sections or five different sections. We have a number of them that are either etherton or old ether. Even us internally get confused, frankly. Um, maybe there's a better way to to address it, but yeah, there's there way to rename them. Part one, part two. I don't know. Maybe there is. It's never really south four, north four or other.

Renaming streets is difficult. It is difficult. Yeah. Which involves the postal service, the residents that live along it. It's just a whole lot of because residents obviously have everything tied to an address and then they've got to contact the banks, the credit card companies, this that the

so back to the task at hand. I think the additional information is report be considered an arterial Well, it's actually on the list currently. Believe that's right. Did I say oral? Oral. Oral is what I'm talking.

Yes, we could certainly re-evaluate orbal. I I don't know that I would be quick to suggest it, but we could certainly re revisit that one. Um, rigger would be another one that I mean those are probably most narrower roads. I'm sure the traffic volumes are less based on their connectivity. They probably wouldn't quite um be high enough to be considered an art roadway, but we can reevaluate them. Yeah,

getting busier. It is. I've added that to the list. Any other thoughts on the two list streets? Rick, you're going to be busy. You told my boss I got lots to do. Didn't expect to get homework. We'll see him on Zoom from this point forward.

Take a good look. So again, if you think of anything relative to the list of streets, comments that were made about the classifications and definitions and any other items that were discussed during this part of our meeting, please just uh send them to us, Melanie, Travis, Robin, and I, and we'll make sure Rick gets them, and then we'll try to address them as best we can. Um, as M. Chair Route mentioned, our next meeting is just a week away. So, I wouldn't promise you anything any miracles in terms of responses, but we'll certainly be prepared, if not for that meeting, the next one that we have scheduled in February. The second component of the transportation element is the goals, objectives, and policies. And again, I'm going to with a little bit of news here. If you haven't driven around Wildwood environments, particularly we're in town center, you might have noticed that we have a lot of development underway in the apartment complex, 180 units. The reserve single family dwellings, 115. Um Ashley Grove, 11, the point at Brightley, 30. Um list kind of goes on. We've got large lot single family subdivisions out at Route T and Route 100 on Christy Road south of Manchester Road. And seems like every business in town realized that we changed our sign regulations and want new signs. So, we got this late is what I'm saying because we're kind of swamped with a lot of what

we're doing right now. Robin and not so much me. We're looking at the draft of the historic preservation plan so we can get it to the historic preservation commission. We have timelines with the state historic preservation office. So I apologize. You got it yesterday. Wasn't um it wasn't what I had hoped, but so what I'm going to say is I know you haven't had a great deal of time to review. It like I mentioned with the last element, if you have comments, please send them to me. um we'll catch back up with them. I promise you we're not going to ask you to do something then ignore it when you hear it. I just want to again just mention that it was a little late getting to you and so from that perspective please feel free to go over it particularly between now and our next meeting. Uh certainly then if you want you can bring your comments we can u accept those comments and if there's something that's really will be you. We'll certainly have time to discuss them next Wednesday. So, and I wasn't necessarily planning on spending a great deal of time on that because I really like to get to the next element, which is one that's near and dear to my heart, space, and recreation. So again, if the process isn't what you thought it was and delay getting information to you, please falls on the falls on the director. That's me and again doing the best we can and we continue to strive to do that. So thank you. Open space and recreation. Just a couple quick things about it. Um, little bit of a story. So, on September 1st, 1995

at noon, excuse me, at 10:00 a.m., there was a group of us out at Babler State Park in the shadow of Dr. Babler's statue and there was a group of the appointed council members, the appointed mayor and one of them came up to me and said, "Oh, by the way, you're also the director of parks, hired as the director of planning." I said, "Well, you realize I've never done this, so don't worry about it. I'll never have a park. So from that point forward, things changed. So there's a little bit of trivia if you ever get asked how we got here. So first and foremost, our first master plan did contain the settlement, open space and recreation. I think you'll see a lot about preserving and protecting existing public spaces like Babler State Park, Rockwood Reservation, Rockwood Range, Green Valley County Park, etc. Um however once we became a city first thing we did in terms of open space and recreation is we applied for a grant in 1996 to the Missouri through East West Gateway Council of Governments build a trail segment 109 from Route 100 to Clayton That's a small segment. It's on the east side, but that was the first barrel segment that was constructed in W. And it wouldn't have been constructed without the assistance of one person in the room. At that time, Mr. Brown was the area engineer for the Southwest

District of Missouri Department of Transportation. And we needed right away. Mr. Brown wrote a short letter, one page, and said, "You sure can

really quit Moadon there after it was his party shot." It was a great one because most of our greenway corridor is in state rideway. So, without the assistance of Mr. Brown in another capacity and a generous East West Gateway Council of Governments, who knows if we would have had a trail system. That's our first segment. Route 100 to Clayton Road east side of Route 109. And from there we've it just kind of started um snowballing. So we have parks, we have trails, we have passive spaces, we have active spaces, and for the most part we'd like to think it's a nice mix of neighborhood and community type park. Um the element itself as I mentioned is one of the shorter ones. Three goals, four objectives, eight policies and has again been part of the plan since 1996.

Yeah. I was just wondering if do we know how much like how many miles of trail system we have within Wildwood? How many what percentage of of Wildwood is is parks? And that would I would include Greensfelder and Babler and things like that. I don't think people realize what what we have here as far as parks and and the cost of maintaining that.

Well, I'll argue cost of maintenance till I'm blue in the face and I pass out and die. Um, we spend about $500,000 a year on park trail maintenance. Some of the trail maintenance is done by public works because it's in adjacent rideway. Some isn't because maintaining the trail. It's just as easy for us to basically maintain the rideway next to it. So, it's a collaborative effort, cooperative effort, and we both benefit from it. But, I would argue at a half a million dollars, which is a great deal of money. It's a very good bargain for the buck and we do a lot to ensure our our parks are clean, safe, and meet the requirements of the oversight agencies in terms of all of the components and monthly inspections and repairs. So, um, it's a it's a little bit of a sore subject because pretty much every month I hear how much we're spending on parks and trails and we need to cut back. We need to cut back. In fact, um, at a meeting, I believe in November of the planning and parks committee, they passed a motion to put a five-year moratorial on any new parks or trails. And so this means we're doing a 10-year plan. First five years, we're just doing what we're doing.

Do you know as far as acreages, how much in terms of paid trail surface, I think we're somewhere around 14 or 15 miles. So that's the trail surfaces on either side of route 100 on route 109. uh in your subdivision um beyond coast cherry hills etc. Collectively we do have a map that shows all of the trails both in the state, county and city parks plus the trail systems we've constructed and rideway etc. And it's well over 125 miles.

Yeah, I was going to say it's pretty random. So Deborah, well I I don't mean to interrupt. I guess we're going to get to the to the policies and stuff, right? And I'll just wait till we hear. So is that where the mortorium and policies or is it here? It's not. It was done without the benefit of a memorandum being prepared. It was done under a miscellaneous on the agenda. So much of an exclusive council.

I will say that one person in the room didn't support Good question. Is there a reason why the trail doesn't extend on the west side of 109 going from like Lafayette trails going past towards Pigglia and going past where other side of Babler when the trail on the east side goes all the way connects to Garden Ridge but on the other side there's no trails whatsoever. It's not it doesn't connect to BA. You can't go from BA, walk down that way. You can't come out of um Lafayette Trails, make a left, go up towards Bigo. There's no trails there. Is there a reason that it's only on one side and not the other?

It's just intended that way or is just just that was a Well, I guess the answer is we've we've identified initially was constructing it on the east side and mostly that was done through combination of grants and city funds. some of the sections on the west side like um I guess maybe been envisioned to be completed with development of adjacent properties which has not yet occurred. So like Lapia Trails which is the sixth lot large lot subdivision across from Lafayette High School we made we required that developer to build that side the sidewalk is there and then it ends. Yeah.

So we skipped Piglia we kind of pick up the trail near St. Albertville Catholic Church. Then we basically on your trail maps you'll we'll show you going down old Etherton Road as the connection to F to Route BA. So it's a city street. Okay.

It's a low volume street. So what we ended up doing is we kind of cobbled together sections of trail as Mr. Brown mentioned that the development community constructed existing low volume streets and then we did do a small trail segment that's going to be removed as part of the roundabout construction of Route 109 and Route BA. It had a vertical curb and then the trail was right next to it that took you to BA years ago. I don't know if Ricky if you were here but we actually worked in conjunction with Missouri Department of Transportation and we widened both sides both shoulders on both sides of Route BA and striped them with a solid wide so as that could be a bike lane or

Yeah. And then what about going the on 100 going towards pond where it basically dead ends like you can come out of the park when you come out of the park there's no trail it doesn't go it doesn't go west any further and the same on the left side it doesn't go west towards pond it just stops. Yeah we on the north side out of community park we actually have a set of engineered plans that have been approved by the Missouri Department of Transportation. This is years ago that actually takes us out to Wild Horse Creek Road.

Okay. Um it's always been a a victim of budget cuts. Um on the south side we do have a trail system that goes out to pond. Living word church built a trail segment down to higher focus that photography studio and kind of dead ends there. We didn't have enough room to build the trail in front of higher focus without um basically putting it up next to the building itself. Those two old historic buildings. So, we've kind of been cobbling it all together. As you get further and further west though, we've just um we haven't been able to basically follow our plan, which is to build trails to get eventually to Green Shelder County Park.

Okay. That'll be somebody I'll be pushing by that time. I have a question on the on this trail thing. the cooperative trail that was recently approved or adopted along Old State Road. Does that fall out? Is that a sidewalk versus a trail or how does that fall out? Was that Did that predate the decision not to make any new ones?

I think that's fair to say that it did. And we did get federal funds for that project. So, it's funded 20% by the city f 80% by the federal government. Um, it's a it's a trail. That's a shared use path, multi-use path, not a side point.

So if circumstances like that became available, would that be outside of the moratorum? Well, maybe I was a little harsh, but they said yes that if something came along that was a key component of a trail or property became available that was just, you know, something that would be a once in a-lifetime opportunity. I could bring it back to the committee and city council on a case-byase basis. But in terms of planning for the future, I'm been told not to do that per se. So, planning and parks adopted the mortorium. Did council approve it then or did was it just received the report they will have the report in February. Can you hold off on that?

No. I mean this committee in theory could recommend that that's not the case. Well, you certainly could and that wasn't my intent. I was just expressing a little frustration in that. Um, no offense, Matt, Rick, but we spend $3.6 million or so on road and bridging maintenance and we spend $500,000 on park and trails. from what you spend on a roundabout. Well, that's part of and I'm not criticizing people. I know. I'm just saying

safety first. Safety first. But let's put it in context and you know, quit telling the four of us that work in the Department of Planning and Parks that we don't follow, we don't track our dollars. We spend them judiciously and we spend them to keep kids safe when they're on the playground equipment or when they're driving on the park roads or parking in the parking lot or using the restrooms. But like I say, it's a real sore subject right now. Reason. Well, that's for five years. Yes. And that's where we're at right now. So, um, but the planning, shouldn't we still be planning for after that five years?

Absolutely. And that's why you have the goals, objectives, and policies before you because regardless, as we know, elections change directions as well. And so from that perspective, there may be a group and I'll come forward that'll say, "Wait a second, we can spend on the roads as we've been and add where we need, but we can also do parks and recreation and do it well." So

yeah, I said in the meeting in the I've said many times that that $500,000, it's 15 bucks a person in Wildwood per year. That's what we pay for all our gorgeous parks. And if you only go and enjoy them once, you know, that's kind of what the admission you would pay to enjoy, you know, um, uh, uh, Rock Hollow or, you know, the the the zombie road and and all those kinds of things. And so I I think it's a tragedy that we haven't that we're so shortsighted that we don't want to spend that kind of money.

And I think so, too. And I I just think that um instead of well maybe looking at the same time because I wasn't in that meeting of course so I don't know all of their thoughts but in addition to that moratorum maybe look at more closely how can we pay for how can we raise the pri the the budget for parks and trails instead of let's stop doing it so that we have this money. Um, and to and this we should bring up in the goals and objectives, I think, is how do we push bringing that um sales tax back on the ballot?

Exactly. And it's in it's it's weaved through all of the components of this particular element. There needs to be a dedicated funding source. Um, and we'll get to that as we move forward. So I've editorialized right on your all shoulder so I apologize. Thank you for bringing that up. It's important parks are what makes Wildwood well. Yeah, they just are. For 15 bucks a person.

So why then was I the only one that said no. Everybody else on council said yes. Don't answer. You don't have to answer. Well, I probably I think I think I thought the meeting was at 6:30 and it was at 5:30 and I walked must have walked in late because it was a it was a fatal comple otherwise I would have been screaming bloody murder and you know this as well as anybody because you're in there listening to me rant about the the short shrift that we give our park system anyway. So, um so I would have been with you personally. Thank you. Yes. Are you gonna go through each one of these because I I have notes on. Okay. Sorry.

All right. So, we have three goals. The first goal is Wildwood Parks and Recreation Facility should improve the quality of life within the city, enhance property values, pro promote a sense of community, welcome and engage residents and the visiting public. The department is recommending that we add and offer inclusive access to all ages and abilities. Where are we? Gold one. Number one. Okay. Sorry, just jump right in. No, that was I was saying I'm sorry.

And again, as you know, uh next to our oval and village green phase one, we are in the process of developing the engineered plans uh to begin building an all-inclusive playground here in Wildwood. Uh the goal recognizes the benefits of parks and trail corridors at by adding vibrancy to the community. in the case of Wildwood that become an economic development tool as well. Definitely.

I think your your commentary is very good and more ex explains things even better using the word vibrancy and economic development tool. I would add those into the goal as well as maybe add somewhere in there physical fitness that it's a that it um enhances or it encourages physical fitness of the community because a few years ago, physical and mental well-being,

physical and mental well-being maybe. Um yeah, because a few years ago a reporter had called me and we we worked through um um why is it that Wildwood has such a longevity? Remember that that article? Um, so he had called me and we we talked about it a long time and we tried to think of why was it because we rate very high in longevity environmentally for some reason and I think physical mental um would be a really good thing to put in it.

I also would attribute it to that it's a more quiet environment than most. There's less lighting all day, every night, all night. Um those things I believe are stressors to one's one's good one's physical health. Lack of fast food places we don't lack to change it then.

So the department's recommendation on this one is retain and revise as noted. U the department added the inclusive inclusiveness of the facilities. I think I would like if there's no objection on the group's part to the bi economic development and physical and mental well-being as part of the goal.

Uh number two gold while facilities and park and recreation programs should meet residents needs and preferences with prudent fiscal constraints set forth by the city council and described in the adopted strategic plan and five-year capital improvement plans for the same. Um, again, I think it's important that we understand that there are guiding tools in terms of what we do, not only what the residents prefer and need, but also what we can afford. And so that's why that addition is part of what we're recommending here. Goal three, um, Wildwood should have permanent funding sources for its park and recreation facilities and programs and their maintenance. And as part of the description, uh, a group of residents in 2007 thought it was well time to basically put forward residents, voters, um, the parks and storm water sales tax, which is enabled under state legislation. And if you're wondering, out of the 88 municipalities in St. Louis County, there are three that do not have it. Wildwood is one, and the two others are in North County in the inner ring suburbs um, next to North St. So,

so my question is we should have it. What are the action items to get it? Well, that's it someplace in here that it's already in the works. Is that Did I just read that somewhere? Pardon, ma'am. The tax again. Did I'm sorry. Go ahead. Well, I I apologize. I just didn't hear you. Oh, it's okay. Go ahead.

Well, it went to the vote in 2008. It was also the it was a national election. We had consultant consulted with uh experts that said the more voters you have at an election typically that's favorable to parks and recreation. Um it was a national election. It was the first time I believe Barack Obama was on the ballot. But also besides ours, there were six other tax increases on the ballot that that year. So by the time you worked through the six and got the number seven, that was us. and 11,000 people opposed it, 10,000 supported it and failed polls. And since that time, we've had two um volunteer groups, the citizens committee on uh parks up parks plant update and then our watershed erosion task force both say that we should take the sales tax issue to the voters. It's not yet made it, but it's a goal. Now if we say we should this what are we going to do to how would we make that happen and should we put that in right is it by having retained it as a goal need to change the commentary

right yeah was it percentage of the sales tax like a quarter percent or something like that I believe it can be up to a half cent um I think Tom Lee our city administrator done a calculation and like at a half cent it'll generate like 2 million or so. So on a half cent.

Yeah. So it would be a very welcome revenue source while we're looking at our revenue sources flattening if not decreasing in some instances. Problem we're going to run into funding with sales taxes. The state of Missouri is talking about using that in lie of income tax. All the fire districts in St. county are going to have a proposition on the ballot for a 1% sales tax in April. So, and that's kind of like people aren't standing the lanes, but that's the um it's I think that the goal is that up here, right? We should have permanent funding and then let's stay up here and then go. Yeah.

As we go through the objectives and policies, we'll get to that action item that says we should take it to the voters. It doesn't give details on when, where, how, but it certainly says it's an issue that if it is, if we can get the polls, we ought to at least ask. Yeah, I agree. I think so. But when if and when the city does a tax, it should just be a parks tax and not what was we calling it? Erosion and parks. We should just do one at a time, I think, and not lump them together. That's Yeah, I think they have I think they are married under the state legislation. So,

well, they are um and there's always been um the there's been in 2008 we actually talked about you know one year we spend some on uh parks, one year we spend it on star doing something like that are doing it in sequences so that we're basically touching as many of the bases as we can.

Yes, ma'am. So, in addition to our goals, can we I don't know how if this works or not from this this um committee, can we refer this back to PNZ or the council or whoever is going to be the next in line to to look at this just so we can get on their agenda? PNZ, all eight citizen members are part of this group. PNZ will adopt the plan under state statute. They adopt it. Not s not the city council. Okay. It goes on the city council for endorsement and ratification.

So can I make a motion? Can I move to refer that to PNZ? Refer what? I'm sorry. Refer um discussing again sales tax. Well, PNZ, we don't have anything to do with the taxes. Sales tax. I thought this over 10ear plan comes to us is what he's saying. It would be a plan. Now we get this. Whatever gets done here comes to the PNZ and the PNZ. Yeah, we put it in here, right? Well, PNZ doesn't. Well, you'll vote on the master plan which contains a hopefully a goal objective and policy that takes us through that process to give

a question to the voters. I think that's what Miss Clark is advocating. Right. And I I just want to make sure that we're we're focusing on this sales tax, too. So will that focus on the sales tax? What we're you just said if we put it in as a goal goal. Couldn't that be an objective of the goal? Well, I'm just saying it already exists as a goal. Just some commentary that says reintroduced.

Yeah, I agree with what Deb said um and what Teresa said. Uh I is there a way to if we're going to take this forward with a request for a half cent sales tax, the constraint of of it's got to be storm water and parks. That means all the money for parks is going to go to storm water because we need $30 million to fix our storm water problems. And so is there a way to codify in this in this m in this master plan that any new tax increase for parks would have at least a certain percentage allocated to parks specifically so that it doesn't so that it's it's already you know in our plan instead of just having to hash it out separately. Is that a reasonable suggestion or is that stupid? Well, I think an any suggestion is not stupid. Any suggestion is reasonable and should be studied. So, what I'll say is that I'll talk with Mr. Lee and others and we'll see if there is an allocation component that we can add to either the objective or policy. I wouldn't necessarily put it in the goal that's very specific, but I think we may be able to do something or it ends up in the narrative. You know, this was the let's say hot button issue of the group that we need a funding source for parks and recreation

that is that covers parks that that that at some com some portion of it goes to parks and always will. So, okay.

What's the likelihood of per cap of fixed budget for parks based on population x dollars per person? Well, we kind of do that already because parks maintenance is funded out of the operating revenue and the operating revenue is primarily sales tax and sales tax since we're a poolled city is done on the per category improvements through capital improvement program which is sales tax which is per capita. So we kind of do that all. So once we get out of the goals and we get down to the more specific part, which is what we're talking about, kind of piggybacking on Teresa and Rob, what about doing as we do with uh the roads, have a five-year strategic plan so that we're not necessarily saying you have to spend X on parks and X on storm water, but we have a plan so that we can see what we need going forward in a five-year strategic plan to make sure that everybody gets It's their their peace. What so when we get down to that point maybe I don't know if that would be something that we could do.

Certainly as we work from the top of the funnel down to the smallest part we can start refining the Yes. Here we want we want a dedicated revenue source for parks recreation the trails and their maintenance. We want how to do this is the state enabled legislation for parks and storm water. Then when we get to the policy we may say so could I make a motion that we at least accept the the goals right now. Um just because we're on

through three of them. That's the totality of the goals. We I didn't add any new ones. Maybe some in the room that want something else added to the goals relative to this. Is it appropriate to I agree. Is it appropriate to somehow say that I believe the storm water stuff is going to be so massive that we're going to have to have some sort of a bond issue or something like that to pay for $30 million worth of drainage work or $20 million or whatever the number is today. Um, and I'm really trying to separate the park budget because the park budget is minuscule um in comparison. Can can can we can we get that specific or does that make any sense to do that or

I think you can get as specific as you want and as we work through the the final documents you'll see if it fits or not but I think right now as we go through this elements this element the gold I don't want to take anything off the board let's be specific and see where it goes. Sure. Okay. The goal is to get some funding for parks and then you know cover the well that's there split and split the is that the result that's your mechanism so my question is we don't want to

I see this is a framework and we have goals now is there anywhere and and then this is a thing we live by the 10 years that the city gets is there anywhere in here we can say you shall do something. Shall and a goal are two different things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You see, I don't I've not seen anything in here where we've said city of Wildwood shall do this. You shall take this to the voters and you shall do this within a three-year period after we adopt it. That's not a goal though. That would be

that's a telling someone that we will do that. And I don't think this is document. We had this argument the discussion not argument the discussion about well we ought well we're putting it as a goal but it's still up to the city council at the end of the day right we don't do that unless there's some place where there's some shs in here and I've not seen it yet so just saying we we can't we're setting goals this is what you ought to consider doing our goal is our goal is the goal is the goal right Well, no, but it I I was trying to put shall in there. We can't shall this is an ought to. This is an ought to guidance.

This is what we ought to do as a guidance. There is no shall at the end of the day, but if you stray from this, you went away from the 10-year plan. So, it gives it's a framework document. Exactly.

Any more goals? Anybody want to add? Teresa has been waiting patiently. Well, I I just was thinking about all of the other elements and how the goals were set up and that it just seemed like we were missing a few things compared to those. Maybe something about the goal of safe safety for staff and participants. I didn't see anything about safety in our goals and open spaces and well not just people but plants and habitat and the animal habitat um and uh pre preventative and remediation maintenance wasn't listed here and I was wondering if we could sort of get around the moratorum by saying Um, one of the goals is to improve connectivity of the trail system. All of those things that you mentioned are in objectives.

Yeah, they are. They are all in objectives. Yep. Well, they need to be strengthened. We need to be have a goal for it to so that we can work on it with ag.

Yeah, I think I think a couple of general statements are a big omission I think on my part. I have something relative to a goal relating to the safety of our facilities. I think that's critical and certainly the others that were mentioned habitat remediation maintenance and improved connectivity. Let's see what I can do. But um we do have things in the goal objectives and policies that maybe as we go through those we can refine those those statements Miss Clark made relative to the goals. Right. The chart at the end Teresa just because I had asked for this before was the chart at the end shows that where they think that the objectives Yes. I know that. Yeah.

Question is still out on the table. Is there any we've got suggestions from Miss Clark or there any other goals that have shield? Could you just put the word safety in the first goal? Add that in with the other stuff, right? Would that be adequate? I can certainly look at it because we talk about there is a list here. quality of life, enhance property values, sense of community, eng Wildwoods, parks and recreation facilities should safely improve the quality of Well, I'll start putting it there. We'll take a look at it.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, so you bring up recreation under policies, but I'm wondering, I think you know where I'm going. I I'm wondering, can we have um a goal that says to establish a recreation center or do we have to wait till we get policies? Well, I think we've not talked about we talk about Wildwood's park and recreation facility could improve, but we're not saying new. Then the second goal is Wildwood which should should meet residents needs and preferences. I think it could fit in there. Okay.

So, that's a that's a locker. Let me see what I can do with it. Is there a way to say improve the successful isn't the word but improve the um enactment of policies by um it

what's the word separating the two budget items for parks and storm draining so you can focus on one and focus on the other versus focusing on both. I think what has been kind of alluded to is maybe that gets more into an objective or policy. You want a revenue source gold have an objective the legislation that's exist the policy should be maybe

for the first 10 years of its application allocation should be more toward parks not storm water or something akin to that or can you split the budget so that you're I be a $30 million budget and it all goes to storm drainage because we a major problem versus five for parks and 25 for storm drain. I I don't think that's a that'll pass. I don't mean you'll have one year where something bad happens like striker falls into Cox Creek and they'll say no.

No, sir. Um I'm just when I Googled the storm water thing it came up that apparently administration public works discussed this back in July and September there was a information provided about what it would take to put something on the ballot regarding this and what it would generate and what became of that do we know I think they basically tabled the idea for the mall city council as recent as last September it was brought up and a paper was generated I'm assuming by staff or or Rick. Okay. Um yeah, this would kind of transcend both departments, wouldn't it? It does. And

there's there's been some recent discussion about it. I don't would say it's dead, but certainly I think there's some reluctance. I don't want to speak for our elected officials, but So the mechanics of that would be one of those committees would have to say we support it and then from there it would go to PNZ. We have to approve it ballot issue context of master plan update. Yes. If it's out of the administration public works committee of city council or planning parks committee out of city council. No. Okay. Somehow this would resurface. Are you the guys on either of those committees? Which one? Uh this was administrative public works.

No, I'm not on that one. But we but I think part of the discussion was we didn't feel like a tax would pass at this point in time and the city is sitting on um reserve funds and so that combined with then going back and asking for additional money for tax purposes. At this point we didn't think it would be passed so we kind of put it on hold. Is that right Joe?

Yes ma'am. The reserve component is kind of the gorilla in the room. Yeah. Can I just want to throw this out here? So, we did we sent the survey out to residents. The top two things that the residents asked for because I I went down and counted them up was um a recreation center and the other one was lower density. And that was the two that pretty much that was the responses pretty much. But you know out of the we had what 780 yeah it was like 600 and something 700 and something with for those two categories. So,

and what you've done in the planning element is retained again a minimum one unit per acre in the suburban and as I mentioned in the suburban residential area there's only about three vacant properties left and then in the non-urban we have adam at least that stated one unit for every three acres as a density. So town center is the one that seems to draw the attention and Mayor Garano does a wonderful job of saying folks that's 800 acres is 68 square miles is our downtown so to speak but certainly when we went in the planning element we talked a great deal about the density. So, I think we've covered that and we'll look at the recreation center. Other goals, I've got a few that have been suggested. We'll them through the the the five of us here and we'll see what we come up with. Bring them back to you. Moving on to objectives. Um, objective one, regional parks located within the city should be protected from adver adverse environmental consequences created by roadways, highways, and new developments located adjacent to or upstream from these publicly held thoughts. Remember, this isn't a knock against public works. This is in the context of 1996 and the outer belt discussion that was being bantered about the state of Missouri and others. So um the department says um this is can this complements the environmental element where we talk about protection of public lands and so the department is recommending it be retained

came up in planning and zoning on something. So yes, yeah, very much. And you're looking at holistically and set it separately, which you should uh objective two, the connection of Babler State Park, Rockwoods Reservation and Range, and Greensfeller County Park should be encouraged as part of a re larger regional park system while focusing on plans and actions to make further links to the Ozark and Katy trains. So you could somehow connect Babler to Greensfielder where you just go bass by Hidden Valley and go along that ridge and actually there is a trail

from the southern end of Babler State Park on Rigger Road. We have a 90 foot wide dedicated park corridor that goes through Homestead Estates. It ends um just shy of Route 100. There's two intervening properties and then we have an easement across a portion of Mueller Road to Old Manchester Road and at that location Rockwood resids reservation is there and if we can get into Rockwoods Reservation there's Gleno Road there's their system and then public works and planning did the tunnel under route 109 the trail Hamilton car greenway to old state road and then the tunnel under Old State Road to Gleno and then Gleno to the river. So, and Mr. Newberry, tell them about the Western Greenway real quickly.

Um, the department's been working with um Missouri State Parks and Great Rivers Greenway, the regional trail district um to plan a alignment of trail from um the north end of Babler Park at Plush Creek Road all the way down to the Ria Road crossing um that Mr. just mentioned. Um, and they've come up with a pretty far along on a on a con on a an alignment there. Miss Keefe has been part of that to make sure our historic preservation components, particularly our the United States colored troops, historic moniker is going to be a key feature. Did they ever find a spot?

Yes, we did identify a spot and it's included as part of this western greenway. Yeah. So Miss Keef and Mr. Newberry have been working with state parks and GRG on that. So So the idea then is somehow some way to get from the north end of Babler State Park on City Centaur Road to the Leay Memorial Trail Head to the Levy Trail, then across the river and onto the Katy Trail. And so there is a grandiose plan out there and we're all in our 20s who may see it come to fruition, but some I hope you all do get to see it.

Do we have a a link to the map, the trail map? I don't know if it's I don't know if it's public yet. They're getting ready to start public engagement. Um I'll get an update tomorrow on that. So they may have some exhibits that they're willing to provide. It's not a city project per se. It's they've invited us to be a partner. So if we have if they have something that they're ready to share with the public and I'm more speaking of the trail map that we have now. Oh, the overall to this object. Yeah. Mr. Rupo. Yeah, we have um trail maps. There's actually one behind you that says parks and trails on it that does have the trails on it. Um so yeah, we can provide that also. It's link.

Uhhuh. Yeah, absolutely.

So, linkages go trail as I recall is like 200 miles and takes you to Northforest Arkansas. You want to go there and travel at Walmart. Objective three, protection of the diversity and health of vegetative and wildlife species within wildwood should be supported and adopted for application. So then this is more on not the recreation side but the open space side. Our department believes that's consistent. We heard that as one of the potential gold additions from Miss Clark this today. Just ensuring that we take care of our wildlife and the habitat that supports it as well as the fauna and flora in our parks and trail quarters.

What about evasious invasive species of honey suckle and stuff like that? Uh I I was hoping that at this point we could add something in about encouraging the planting of native plants and vegetation. Thank you. Did that fit there? That play with our deer management program. We don't deer management program. We don't have one. You don't have Don't count it out yet.

Fighter been down for the nine pounds and gotten up in one. So you got ways. I'm counting on Mr. Brown and Mr. Lee. Don't bet against it and don't bet against Indiana. Great. I'm glad to be here.

So, invasives uh natives in terms of our programming both in public and private public spaces. Um the Xfund funding mechanisms along with conservation easements, development incentives and donation opportunities for acquisition of properties and facilities to address the park and recreation needs of the city of Wildwood which should be defined, established, created and maintained. This was added in 2006. So as you can see we transitioned from don't worry about it, we'll not have any parks to 10 years later but let's get after it folks. department is recommending that be retained. Although the funding component is always a sticky wicket, so to speak. Certainly conservation easements with private property owners, something the Open Space Council advocates for and has been successful at, incentives, uh development incentives, that's our public space regulations, and then finally, donation opportunities, which we're working on one now, if you didn't know, on Ridge Road. It's an 80 acre tract of land that's contiguous to the Rock Hollow Valley. The Open Space Council, St. Louis County, and the city of Wildwood are working collaboratively to obtain a grant and then there is a private donor that will pay the difference in the cost. So great opportunity and probably in terms of a site, it's probably one of the most beautiful ones in all something special. Uh objective five, partnerships with federal, state, and local park and recreation agencies, other municipalities, and public and private not for foods. This is objectives of this effort. regional action that they should be promoted and established, retained. Would like to make my mention that Miss

Keefe has been very very successful with a lot of our historic preservation grants um of late and again I see that as an opportunity. Why don't you just give a brief one about upward up on the loving trail?

Uh yes. Uh we're working to uh do a kickoff engagement for an AfricanAmerican Heritage Trail project uh sometime in the fall of this year. And so we've been very successful. Uh we've achieved one uh national level uh designation of our uh Missouri River escape uh crossing site at House Ferry up on the Levy Trail. Uh that's a site where 16 men um actually escaped over the river uh including Archer Alexander who is a nationally um known figure. Uh he's on the Lincoln his image is on the Lincoln memorial. He informed on Confederate troops. Uh they had a plan and to blow up a Union bridge. Um so he was a very important figure in the Civil War uh effort. So, so that was recently designated by the National Park Service as on the network to freedom. And so we have a lot of history up there uh that we'd like to highlight, including our historic Westland Acres community um including our United States Colored Troops and um and through this historic preservation fund grant, we hope to um to achieve maybe 60% funding of a plan for that effort as well. It's a very very successful and anything anytime we bring attention to our history and it complements our parks, recreation, trails, etc. the double win. So I congratulate Miss Kee and our HPC the historic preservation commission for their efforts. The final objective is a new one

question about number five. I know previously or at one time wasn't there a partnership with Ellisville regarding utilizing the water park facilities is that still exist or or we attempted to do example Bowins golf course Bins's rec center is there some effort or consideration for cooperative agreements with other municipalities that have some facilities did somehow our residents get resident rates and I'm just is anything

for many many years. Uh we had a relationships with Baldwin and Ellisville for the swim for the for their pools during the swim season the summer. Um basically what it did is our residents got Ellis for Balin resident rates and then we paid the difference between um a non-resident and a resident. That was removed from the budget this year. Okay. the um

so it's not forprofit only groups. What about like the um the location for the pickle ball court from forprofit the Greenberg. So wouldn't it also be for profofit and not for-profit? Yeah, I think I could certainly say forprofit or again that's to me a more of a developer component. Um so yeah, we'll figure something out to capture that. And the last item um the connection of Al Foster Trail from its current permanent current terminus to route 66 should be pursued through all options available which is desirable link to for the city from the city of Wild to Ozark Trail via Shaw's Arborita. Hopefully we'll get there before the data centers.

Yes. So this is a little controversial because there's 13 property owners from Marinus Retreat Center to this northern boundary of the city of Eureka generally have refused to grant easements or even consider any type of trail system on the existing rail bed where Missouri American Water Company recently placed water main for the city of Eureka. So, there's going to be some people that don't like this one, but it's been a gold uh since the 1970s when Governor Kit Bon established the Maryland Association. So, I'm sticking with Kit.

So, that's all of the objectives. We're at 8:27. I'll defer to the chair and vice chair. I think this might be a good conclusion point is reference. Can I make a motion that we accept everything we've done so far so that we don't lose it? Um, certainly. And then as others, you'll get revised wording and it'll be highlighted so you can see that hopefully us the five of us have captured what you want. But if you're satisfied with the list, certainly a motion could be I have a motion to put it in your hands. Or do we not even need a motion? We can just continue on the next meeting. Made the progress. Let's modify it. Yeah. Okay. Your motion.

Thank you. We got a second. All in favor? All discussion. Um for a suggestion for one new objective is something to do with the safety of the facilities and services for participants and for staff. For example, those blue light um emergency Yes. towers. Okay. I I'm not against those, but I have a question about those. If we do that, how how do we put those in places where it's out in nature and we don't have electricity and stuff to it? Do

solar, you know what I mean? I mean, the pole boxes when you're walking by yourself and you're scared someone's going to push a button and I know exactly what it is. That's a smart city thing. Smart city weren't real.

Okay, that's an example. As well as another example of um the um like the sirens go off for weather. Um you you can implement lights that that stream across the the the sky and be seen from quite a quite a ways away for deaf and heart of hearing. I listen again approach to how we basically communicate with people both in the day use of the parky situation not do we have any exterior comments

no one is in attendance it's via Zoom that's not on the on the group did we get a vote on the motion no we didn't vote on it we have a motion and a second no we he said Oh, he we eyed it. Okay. She just hide it. Yeah. Yeah, we did. Just wanted to make sure. Okay. A motion to adjourn. Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. Okay. Next meeting, Wednesday, January 20th. Control the meeting. What's that? No. How about a motion to adjourn?

Motion to adjourn. I Thank you all much. Be careful out there on Zoom. We'll have to leave.