Economic Development Committee - Regular Meeting

All right, we are live. Chair, vice chair. All righty. Um the time is now then 5:39. Um we had to start a few minutes late um due to making sure we had a quorum. So we will now call the economic development committee uh for August meeting to order. So we will start with the uh roll call of members. Colleen, can you please do so? Council member Utenberg, Council Member Preston, here. Council member Alers, Council Member Alers, Council Member Bocker, Council Member Farmer here, Council Member Crayons, Council Member McCutchen here,

Council Member Tradier here. That's it. All right. Well, that's uh five members. So, we do have a quorum. So, we will proceed um to our next agenda item uh for the approval of the meetings from uh last month's meeting. Um Mr. Farmer, I'll make the motion to approve the minutes. Do we have a second? Mr. Ellers. All righty. Um there were no questions on that. All in approval, please say I. I. I. Any abstensions or opposition? Stay. Okay. We're at four then. Uh yeah, but it's for is it for is it is it majority of um majority of

All right. Well, then that passes and that is good. Then we will move on to the next one. Um uh public comment. Do we have anyone in Q to speak this evening? Uh we do not have anyone here live, but we do have a couple folks in the attendees uh section here. If you are online, if you don't mind using the raise hand feature if you would like to be recognized by the chair uh for public comment. Okay, looks like none. See none. All righty. Then that will bring us on to our main topics for this evening, which are our discussion items. And um first item amongst those um were the four information items. Um I guess that's going to you Mr. uh Mr. Lee.

Thank you, Vice Chair. Uh couple quick updates for the business news and other changes. Just wanted to make a quick note that Advanced Carpet One uh located at 170 Plaza Drive uh previously reported as Advanced Carpet. Uh they're actually called Advanced Carpet One. You most likely have seen the signs uh that have gone up. They've just got their wall signage installed a little less than a month ago. Uh they recently actually purchased the property. So they are uh they didn't just lease it out. They own that property now. It was purchased back in April, but didn't go public until late in the summer. Um that said, they are fully opened and we are working with the owners right now to schedule a ribbon cutting ceremony. So on the on the actual u event side, we'll have something coming to the council here shortly. Uh the other side of things on a little bit of a damper mood. Um Sia Spice Grocery which we just had located at 2444 Taylor Road which we just had a ribbon cutting ceremony for uh back in the early spring late um winter this year. Is actually looking to close at August 31 of 2025. Uh they had cited the current conditions as the reason for closing. um didn't get too specific, but it's an unfortunate uh reality that they're going to be coming to a close here shortly. So, uh we're working with them to make sure the sign comes down, things along those lines, but it does seem like they're going to be be packing up. Um that said, we wish them the best of luck moving forward. And overall, they uh they definitely brought some really some really great stuff that I don't know if anybody's been to the store, but they had u some products you really couldn't find anywhere else. It was pretty nice. Um, that said too, uh, I'm going to hit you with a couple bad news, uh, pieces of bad news today. Uh, managed care professionals, which also has, uh, been known as Excellent Technology, or some may know it as the wall signage that is placed upon the building. Uh, HOV source source HOV, uh, they're located over at 183 Plaza Drive next to the old um, PNC Bank building. We had recently found

out, we were speaking with uh one of the new um brokers for the the property. It's called Center Co. Uh we were discussing with them a couple different things, but really talking about how we could get the PNC bank space uh filled up. And before we uh actually got this news, we actually found out that they had been using the space more so as a place to hold their their their server, host their server. So really they had maybe an IT person coming in every now and then just to make sure everyone was tiptop and doing updates. Um but overall they had been operating really like a work from home setting for the majority of their internal business uh since co 19 the pandemic. So that's that was kind of the thread but we recently found out that uh center co or whomever is collecting the checks for the lease um they are no longer honoring the uh the terms of the leasing agreement. So they uh and they found out that it that business had gone bankrupt. So unfortunately that that lease has been terminated right now. Uh there is on a brighter note um a business that's potentially interested in the PNC Bank side of the building. So that is good. They have not given us any details on who that might be. And the other problem is PNC Bank is honoring the terms of the leasing agreement. And in that case, if any changes to that leasing agreement, which we would hope they would be willing to if another business was interested, they would have to exit that agreement uh before anything could happen. So, right now, we're working with them on a couple things. Uh they just updated their their leasing guide, their brochure. We'll be putting that out and trying to get that out to folks. And then they also were coming to trying to get a legal understanding here. Supposedly, they've been paying taxes on the the signage, the town center signage up at the front of town center there. uh if you as you're approaching Taylor Road, uh they had mentioned they're paying taxes on it, but they don't know who is necessarily allowing which signs to go up, which in this case, we check city records. They did not. We approve the sign, but we didn't necessarily approve the signs that are going up individually. Um so right now they are

working to identify who might have coordinated that for I think the hair salon for men's got one. It used to have pure bygen up there. It's definitely gone through some shades, but uh the idea is going to be that they're going to kind of break out a leasing system to allow some better frontage uh signage along 100. So, that's going to be a nice opportunity once they get it sorted. U we're helping them kind of track down who might have been monitoring it prior, but that's why we've also informed them that it needs to be maintained. So, they should be cleaning it up. So, we should see some improvements there. and I actually think could have a a really really nice opportunity to maybe, you know, freshen up the town center sign and have some businesses that really want to show show off and get on 100, which is something we hear consistently. Um, and then the last little bit of bad news this uh this evening, American Mattress at 2440 Taylor Road, we found out um the department was wondering, we we kept seeing online uh that they're planning to open um open by the end of July 2025. And this was all the way from about May or uh June of this year. We had not been able to get in touch with somebody overseeing the opening because they needed to get a business license. They needed to get reoccupy. There was a process that we needed to go through with them. The only thing we had been going off of is what was online and also at the actual physical location. They had put just a sign up in the window that said American Mattress coming soon. Um that said, the department did leave cards there to try to get in touch with these folks. We never did get a hold of the person directly that maybe put that sign up, but we did get a hold of somebody in their headquarters uh as we got to the end of um July. So, we called them on August 1 and they had noted that a subsidiary of the business had plans on opening here to pair. They had other locations in St. Louis and a couple others. But overall, they are also going through a bankruptcy right now. So, they have halted any plans for opening. So what may have been previously negotiated with Deerbergs, maybe they were, you know, crossing the tees and dotting the eyes. They most likely expressed some

type of exit clause and Deerberg said that it would not be moving forward as well. So right now it does seem that American Mattress will not be opening, which is unfortunate. We were hoping to welcome them in. Um that said, we're working with Deerbergs to see if there's any other interest being garnered up over there. Um, other than that, those are the main updates, but just want to in case any businesses are watching, we want to make sure to give a highlight to who's hiring. We're trying to add this in and promote as much as we can. We got Good News Brewing hiring. Local House Beastro, uh, Mariness Retreat Center is looking for folks. Three French hens, Sassifrass Clothing Company, Casper Accounting, uh, is hiring, Tai Beastro, and Rockwood Iare all looking for assistance right now. So, if uh you have teenagers or someone that might be interested in uh some work, definitely look that up. We also have some information on our website, too, if they're interested. And last but not least, just wanted to send a reminder in case anybody's watching um that we have our farmers market currently ongoing, and that will take place all the way through October 4th, and we'll have a special seasonal market later in the season. Um and there is one last thing. We have gotten about 15 of the shop local window stickers out, so we're starting to do some promotion with those. Uh the idea will be to kind of incorporate it within the 30th anniversary and tying that to the Proud Wildwood business sticker. So if you see that on social media, please do share it. But available for any questions. Thank you. If I share,

Mr. F.

Yeah, I think um I'm glad that we're having some conversations with the the PNC building people. Um I hope we can get the sign thing figured out because it's in pretty bad shape. But also just a lot of the exterior lighting on that building is in bad shape. I think a couple of those globes got taken out in a hail stom. Bunch of the other lights either don't aren't turned on or don't function or whatever. And I think we've had this conversation in part over the last couple years. You know, it would be very cool if we could figure it out to get some Christmas lights up on that building, you know, at the holiday season just so it kind of all encompasses since we do our our uh tree lighting and stuff over there would look really nice. But I do think I mean I'm pretty sure the owner of that is out of state, right?

That is correct. New Hampshire somewhere. Yeah. I mean I I just wonder if um and I don't know if we've done this or not, but like you know a lot my experience with kind of out of state real estate holdings is a lot of times these are just sort of appearing as um kind of line items on a spreadsheet. They don't actually have an understanding of physically what's going on in the space. So, you know, letting them know, hey, there's a bunch of, you know, pretty simple maintenance issues that are going on. And in in a normal building, I think when people are in and out of it, they probably get those reports a lot more regularly. The fact that nobody's been in there, they probably have no concept that that is actually going on. So, if we can get those addressed, that would be great because that is a kind of an ugly space at night when nothing works.

Well, the good news is uh what's your vice chair? Uh the good news is we had a period where they had somewhat gone dark on us but then this new company Center Co reached out to us proactively a couple months ago actually to kind of start discussing just you know business here in Wildwood. So we do have a person we can call now which that you know you know how it is. It does change the prospect. We can follow up with them and we're going to be working with them anyways on the side. So there's probably some opportunities here. The one thing is I when it comes to the lights, we've we previously did engage that owner. They had indicated that really it would be something that they would need someone to not the exterior lights that can be required, but the lighting for the the holiday tree lighting. The mentioning that came up was once we have a tenant that is supportive of that, we would we would consider doing something, but until then, they had pretty much said that it's it's not in our state kind of got it. Well, maybe what we can even do is look at um and it might be worthwhile in a couple places, but uh it's relatively inexpensive to get uh like a gobo system as long as they're cool with us projecting light onto the building. You know, that can probably be done even from like the fountain, which is under city control or something like that where um it just kind of helps. I mean, it would also help just to have functional exterior lighting at night anyways. That would at this point that would even constitute holiday

that we can record. Um, I had one for you, Tom. Um, I I drive by it periodically, which is what caught my attention, but it looks like Kelly Motors. Maybe it's changed hands now into Luxury Lane Auto. Um, I had reached out to the former the previous owner and they said, yeah, they had sold it to a company that came from the city and they're consolidating their lot out in like High or Cedar Ridge, like basically Union. I don't know if that was something that was brought to you or not, but I was just bringing that up in case uh the new owner wanted to be featured in a spotlight.

No, we can definitely reach out to them. So, we had it was a couple it was probably about a year or two ago where Kelly Motors was transferred, but they didn't change the name. They just kept operating it per usual. But did Could you repeat that name again? I Luxury Lane Automobiles I believe is what do they basically? Yeah. Yeah. They've got like uh silver flags kind of like lining the whole thing to get I assume to get a little bit more attention. But yeah, whatever.

I spoke to the wife of um previous owner Bob and um they had said that the luxury lane was previously I don't know if they were off Manchester but down in the city and they were like had like a like a held up at gunpoint or something. So they fled the city to come out here. So um I was just going to say we should make at least you know an effort. Hey, welcome to Wildwood. And um it's a long-term established place there. So hopefully we can we can most definitely do that. We can we could try to reach out to him too if we're ribbon cutting. We'll we'll do the whole red carpet treatment there. That Thank you for that update. Yeah. Anyone else? All right. We will move on then to the update on the use of electric uh message centers and other potential changes to the city's uh sign regulations. To uh Mr. Lee.

Thank you, Vice Chair. Uh this is a quick update tonight, but just wanted to provide an update since this was discussed here originally at committee. Uh but the planning and zoning commission has been working on really the main consideration that changes from what was discussed here at the committee. Uh doesn't necessarily revolve around the the normal sign code. They're looking at the percentage of the facade, getting rid of the um the deposit that has to be given to back up the removal of a sign, etc. The $500 charge um that we hold. Uh there's a couple small things that are being changed, but the primary topic that's being kind of isolated for discussion at PNZ u was the use of electronic message centers. And one thing that was mentioned here at committee was that potentially taxing districts, individuals with taxing authority would be the ones to be able to utilize this type of signage. U originally after the department's review, Department of Planning specifically, they reviewed this item along with uh Mr. Burquette who's been working to kind of give a little bit of light onto the issue and there was originally a recommendation to not proceed with this type of signage here in Wildwood uh from the department but that said at the most recent PNC meeting um the commission had indicated that they would like to find a middle ground so not necessarily giving you know full-blown access to taxing authorities um but finding something where they could have some type of electronic message center which is you know a digital message sign um up at any, you know, this would include schools, fire departments, fire district offices. Um, the city hall could technically have one. Um, there has been some concerns that were brought up that treating the taxing authority different from a business could be some type of double standard. That's been one of the main considerations. But tonight, um, the department is just providing a quick update on where the commission's at, but it does seem like they are moving in direction where they would approve the subsequent sign changes where it would be the percentage of facade, etc. But more importantly, they would actually be allowing uh most of the schools and other public facilities here in in the

city that would be able to build these monument uh electronic message signs here in the future. So, there's been a couple things they've looked at uh just to add a little bit more context, but really looking at the um the the pixelation, how how well these pictures are presented, how bright it is, the luminescence. Um also looking at the transitions, not having, you know, 15 transitions in a minute. it would be, you know, every 10 seconds or so, a slow transition that doesn't necessarily c catch the eye. That's where it does help when we had uh Mr. Berquette come in and provide a quick presentation about um the safety standards that you do want to see with these these types of signs because what you will see if you have a quick transition um especially if the colors do not match and they're they're they're you know contradictory to each other, it will bring eyes off the road and will draw attention which obviously businesses or taxing authorities whomever would be very interested in doing. That said, it's taking the eyes off the road where you really need to have them. Um, but really this is just an update. This will be going to council once the there's a final recommendation from the planning and zoning commission, but right now the the last motion um that was taken from the the commission was that we were to go back uh the department was to go back and find somewhat of a middle ground between not necessarily saying yes to this full-blown every all these taxing authorities can do it to figuring out something where they can they can have these uh but regulated. It's kind of in a spot, but we'll keep providing updates.

Okay. More happy to answer any questions. Okay. We'll go Deb then Joe.

Yeah. I don't know if you know the answer to this, but um is PNC aware of it that there's like three schools, you know, pretty much together and then you've got schools that are within subdivisions. And so if you have those message boards, you know, you could have a lot clustered together or you could have one in the middle of where residents live. I think that's really something we need to think about. And I pass a message board by press view. And every time I look, it's got it's moving. It's pretty fast. It's got many colors on it. But it does take my eyes off because I don't care how many times I go past there. I look every time, but I hope they take into consideration that there'll be some areas where you'll have two or three schools all with message boards

and then in the middle of residents. Yes. And that that has been an issue that has been a primary focus. Um and that's where they're originally just with

kind of the slippery slope here where you know you got multiple most likely you would see a couple of these be erected after the provision has been adopted. So the idea was, hey, maybe we should hold the line on this. But the commission thinks that it it at least what they're indicating now is to heavily regulate it while allowing. That would include potentially having a maximum for the the brightness that these things could have and what they actually look like at night and having potentially settings that turn them off during the late night hours um after like a business hours. If you're closing at 9:00, then your sign turns off at 9:00. There is some the the one thing we did find with the consultant that provided us with some additional information is there has been quite a bit of advancement in the in the industry where it can adjust the the the illuminescence of the the the sign itself, but also just the look and feel of it. Um depending on a schedule, a timer if you will. You can say, "Hey, once the sunlight is hitting at this amount, then you dial it back." But that is subject to to potentially going out. And then you could have something that's actually brighter than it should be if it was targeted for the daytime. So there's a lot of questions still I'd say that focus really more so in on how do you regulate really I mean if you you allow it that's fine. Um but the question is if you have a max luminescence at you know let's say 3,000 Kelvin um how do you you can you could definitely find out but if they have them transitioning or if it's supposed to dial back at night if we have it that distinct it's going to become very difficult uh not only for the individual who has the sign up but for the city to enforce it and also for the the individual business or in this case taxing authority to really they're either going to have to pay $10,000 upfront for that technology that can monitor a turret itself or they're going to have to have an employee go out there and manually change it. Uh which both scenarios are really kind of indicative of what the the major concerns that the department's been bringing up. That said, right now

they're it's still under consideration. They know a lot lot to get as a backl but their complaint is one is the other two high schools um have you know the other and so they think they should have one because the other two high schools do but the other two high schools are in a different community so I think that's originally where the Lafayette request was hacked. my boys are pretty old and it was happening when they were and I um but I I think there are some things that really need to be looked at. Um, and then you know, I don't know if they've talked about what's the name of it where you put it and lay it in the ground and it shines up on on the sign.

So like light pollution or you know it shines up sign. I don't know. We do have So if that's like the external lighting that isn't necessarily projecting, right? Are you just talking about like just a light that's shining on the the sign?

Okay. So we do allow that, but the main way you have to configure it currently is that that um light bulb, if you will, would have to be pointed directly at the building. Uh so those do exist here in town center and sometimes they are favored because we do have that architectural that that a lot of businesses that were initially established here use that type of u type of lighting but the goal is it needs to be close enough to the facade where it doesn't pollute anywhere other than the building it should be reflecting and then anything that comes off the building that is fine but that light also needs to be at a certain Kelvin as well. So we do have that standard and that is approved as long as it gets a signed permit. Um that said, when it comes to the schools asking for them, we've had not only Lafayette, but um multiple schools within the district reach out to us and they I think I think we'd see quite a few of these pop up if we were to um end the prohibition. So, right now it's going to u it's in PNZ. They have recommended that we reverse the department's recommendation to not endorse it. uh we're going to be coming back with if you were to go go forward here are the strict limitations looking at the restrictions. That said, this will it say it's fully endorsed by the the planning and zoning commission. It would go to the full city council and it would be an item under receipt and file uh that the city council could pull for further investigation.

Thank you. Um, yeah. So, mine I guess is maybe more of a process question and I'm not 100% sure you're going to have an answer for it, Tom, and it's okay if you don't, but I'm just having played a small part in the process and then reading through that we've been having these very active discussions at least since January and I know we've been having them before that. I'm I guess I'm just finding it a little strange. I'm not saying that the department's recommendation not to do this is incorrect. They get to recommend whatever they want. But I find it a little odd that they didn't mention that for at least nine months while all this other work was going on. It seems like it might have like that might have been a good place to start the conversation rather than end it.

Yeah. So this in this case the other items this is only for the electronic message centers by the way. So everything else was endorsed. That said, the electronic message centers signs, sorry, it's jargon, but um there was more so if there was a way to regulate it, the techn the idea was is the technology has it come far enough where it can be dependable and if it's dependable, then maybe a limited amount of these could be put out there, but then there was a discussion about really if you open this door, you're probably going to see them for other sites, the Dearbergs and the Shnooks of the world that are going to want them as well. So it kind

but they don't get them. That's how the policy is written. It's a taxing district and like a lot of these items that we work through. The technology does exist. It sounds like it's maybe $10,000 more expensive and we don't make the signs. So if we were to pass this and the school district wanted to put a sign in that cost an extra $10,000 so it function the way we wanted to. I that's not up to us to decide. That's how they want to manage their budget. Our our job is to say if you if you are interested in one of these and I'm not advocating necessarily one way or the other, but if you're interested in one of these and you are an outside taxing district, this is how this works. I mean, it's the same to me. It's not very much different than when we have a builder come in and says, "I want to put vinyl sighting on the house." And we go, "Well, you can't." It's the same. It costs more money. That's not our problem. That's their problem to solve if they want the approval for it. So whether it's an employee or uh you know extra money to put in the sign I think you know that's not probably something we should be legislating. That's not our problem. Our problem would be the enforcement side of things and you know just like we have other issues like we're dealing with up at uh Casey's and all that other kind of stuff with the bright signs. I mean, obviously that's that side of the issue we need to get solved, but you know, like everything else that comes from, you know, hey, this is what it's supposed to be. The sign's too bright, it's on all night, it's flashing, it's doing all these things. All of that was specifically written in the proposal to not have any of those things. So, I I mean, I I we'll see how it goes. We can have more of the conversation at council. I'm just thinking from a from a process standpoint within the city, it seems like I know and I believe wholeheartedly that like the directors should have a lot of sway in how these things go. They they do this every day. That is their job. So I find it either,

and I'm not trying to criticize Mr. Vunage in any way, but I find it either odd that it took nine months to figure out that he didn't like this thing or he didn't say anything about it for 9 months. either one of those doesn't feel like the best use of everybody's time.

Well, and the idea, and I can kind of speak to that, but the idea was we have one of these items, and without getting too far into it, we have a sign that's currently put up. Um, and this is to more so reaffirm because we had not visited that for a couple years now and there had been some changes. That said, there was an idea that these could be approved by a very simple, you know, group of taxing authorities, not necessarily the whole the whole city. And Mr. Burquette who's our lighting consultant. I'll be honest with you, I have not dug too deep into the specifics for how to regulate it. But that said, these just be it it became an issue of how do you track how do you enforce the code in this case. So say we're going to put you know hey at night you know when the when the sun goes down you set it that way because at certain times different ch

Yeah. It's got a light meter. Yep. If you don't watch that every single day and you don't watch it for a full 24 hours, then you can't technically test what the the output is on that sign. So, it just became very convoluted when it came to that's what really led to this internal discussions. It's just how are we going to actually enforce this? And right now, we're having trouble with our own just normal sign code and yeah, like not only sign code, but normal signs. This opens up a door to potentially be additional heartbreak, not heartbreak, but work to do versus uh but this would just maybe add a little bit more complexity where right now we can just say, "Hey, that sign's not allowed, which is is helpful." And there's a decent amount of folks that disagree with the signage being allowed. It just doesn't seem like it has the overwhelming support. Um at least just speaking for on behalf of that the idea. I I would say that that specific sign when it gets turned on, there's nothing we can do about that either. So, we we better get in front of that train before it starts rolling out of the station. I get what you're saying. Anyone else? Y um that's been um Mr. Rooney just thought as long as I've been here regarding electronic message board. So I don't I mean he's been I I was even on the presentation a couple times. So this is I mean me it's not something that just popped up because I've been here a while but that's always been his

Yeah. I'm not I'm not saying that it isn't. I'm saying, you know, as we're as we're going through the process and, you know, this has come up not just on this, on a couple other things, but, you know, when we talk about these things in multiple committees or we have multiple public hearings or it's going from here to P&Z and back and forth, we could save a whole lot of time and energy if it was like, hey, this is the this is the problem. And then if you state that early on and you know Tom and I have had this conversation about a couple different items like you know our job as elected officials or or on boards or whatever is to take in the recommendations of our department heads or city administrator or whatever and take that under adisement and then make a decision and then whatever the decision of the majority is that's the decision. It doesn't really matter if Tom likes it or not. It's his job to figure out how to make it work. So I know for myself, you know, I rely very heavily on Mr. Fun's opinion on a great many things. And so, you know, if he would if he would say, "Hey, this is the this is the real problem." And I and I don't see a way that this is solvable in any way, that would weigh differently to me than and I'm not saying this is exactly how it went, but you know, I've been in enough of these conversations where it's like, well, this is the problem and we don't really know what the solution is. not we don't have one, it's just we haven't figured it out yet. And so that's where I think, you know, the larger kind of decision bodies come into play where it's like, well, now we need you to figure out, we need you to expend the time to figure this out. And if you come back and go, we there's no possible way to make this happen, then we just answer the other question, which is when this other sign goes on, how do we know a million other signs aren't going to pop up because we currently have no way of fixing the ones that we have, which is problematic. So, it's it's a it's a bigger issue I think more from process than anything. I mean, I don't really care one way or the other about electric signs to be honest, but and I'm with you like Prescu is a lot and when you drive down Clayton Road and all those churches are there, that is an

intense feeling which is not any part of how we want this to look out here. But like we've talked about with other things, I think that there is a we need to get past the well, we just don't do that out here and figure out with we do it out here. It just costs you more money and it's more difficult and that's just how it works. So if you want it, that's okay. Here's how it is. It's your problem to fix. And if your sign doesn't meet our things, here's a simple solution. Turns it off. And if you don't turn it off, we find you every day. It's on. That's kind of how I mean that's how I would do it. But I am but one person

in this case too. I mean that that and you're explaining the process as is too. I we can definitely work on the earlier in the process. I know Mr. V had raised some concerns at the beginning of this, but it wasn't necessarily like, hey, we just shouldn't do it. So, that could be raised earlier. That said, um the commission their their word will go to council. So, it doesn't really matter what the department says. It like you said, it is a recommendation that could be taken, but also it can be denied as well. It it does not matter in that case. But, um I wanted to and I will forward this over and should have been included in the attachment. Do apologize. The initial report that was sent uh to the planning and zoning commission that kind of fleshed these ideas out a little bit more. Um, that said, we can send this over to you all. Uh, we'll send it first thing right after this meeting just to give a little bit more info and we'll be coming back on this item anyways next month or at least at the count.

All righty. Um, then we will move on for uh ready for action here. Our time's getting a little thin. Um, so um going to Mr. Lee for recommendations from new legacy development partners um regarding the undeveloped properties. Yes, thank you uh very much. And I'm going to go ahead here to kind of give some context because uh the gentleman that was with us last month um his name is David Mesner and I guess he's um he works with a developing company that work uh had done a lot of work in Herman, Missouri. Um has also they've done some work over in the Cle landing here in St. Louis. So, it it does seem like he does have some background in in development and also just in that type of investing, the financial side of it, putting kind of the pieces together to bring something to life. And the idea after the motion a couple months ago when we were looking at the undeveloped properties list was to try to get input. We've reached out to multiple developers that have shown interest in Wildwood as a FYI, hey, can you provide some input? We haven't gotten too many responses. We've gotten some general, you know, response like, hey, we'll look at it. But we haven't got anything firm. this is the most concrete item that we've gotten back. So, wanted to share the report they sent back to us, but also share with the group today a little bit of a summary and then kind of go over what this individual, this who's also a Wildwood resident, uh, believes they should see in the areas we've identified, but also in the town center more generally. One second. Let me pull this up here. Find. We're just going to show a map here of the town center and and really it has town center, the industrial district and then um Lasowl on there as well. Okay, you can see your screen here.

Okay, perfect. Um so as you can see on the left hand side it's got a descriptor uh which area and it's breaking up some of these are actually multiple properties. This takes you know in some cases multiple parcels and combines them into one site or one area. Uh so if you go through these what he's arguing for here uh areas 3 through 8 we'll zoom in here where the uh houses the 14 town homes were going to be proposed as part of the Greenberg development up on the northern side here. talking about that area. Um the area here that's owned currently, uh the Mary Kay property, the Corsair property, and then the property that is some of these properties that are owned by the the the new owners of the church. Um these all were suggested for some type of midrise apartments or row houses. That is what's being proposed at least from this developer. Um from a financial perspective, I guess is the argument being made. And then going to couple other spots. Um go to 10 real quick. 10's down here. Oh, that's right. Um, and this is where Good News, right next to where Good News Brewing is where you could see there's actually some some areas here uh saying more so a commercial use that has some type of pedestrian access. So, not really getting too far into it really does double down to give a general perspective. Um, we've been arguing the since we became a city that this area of the city should be reserved for industrial use. So this isn't ne ne ne ne ne ne ne ne ne ne ne ne ne ne ne ne ne ne ne ne necessarily anything new, but it's really just saying we should try to you know incentivize an industrial developer to come in and you know work on this site um potentially you know get and after speaking with the gentleman saying that you know data centers and things along those lines are all the hot topic. I don't know if that's something the Wildwood would like to entertain but that's something that

he had mentioned um that that property is at least big enough and suit to suit to be suitable for that type of use. But going down here, he also had mentioned in the recommendation, like I said, this is not necessarily from the department, but that Lasal should somehow be preserved and and right now the way it's laid out, any developer that would come in to try to develop that property would have to entertain the idea of reserving preserving the historic aspects of it. So, the Grove, um the buildings that exist on it, it would be more so a a push and pull with the the city, not necessarily just tearing down all those houses. So that's another component um that's added here that preserve that area at all costs. But really the idea that bringing this map up in the first place, we have noted and we can actually share this the next meeting as well. U that last time we had a good look at the the map back in the town center update plan, but also when we did the master plan last in 2016, we've actually had quite a few properties that have been built in the reserve properties off the board now, which actually takes a decent amount of acreage. Um, you also have the villages at the point that are going in here. Uh, and then if you also take into account the the apartment buildings that are going in, uh, potentially off Taylor and Maine, then you actually start seeing this fill in, you know, quite quite literally you're seeing quite a bit of a development that wasn't here about 10 years ago. So what they're this gentleman and this business is coming in and saying is that the city should be more entertain they should entertain more of these town homes or row houses that were me mentioned specifically along Manchester and along this area of town center where it's right adjacent to one of the primary corridors. Um not necessarily something that the committee even at the last meeting necessarily agreed with but just something I wanted to bring up. Um, and also another big thing that was part of his messaging in the in the report was having some type of um, Wildwood Adventure Park where we

would kind of leverage, and this is actually a really good idea, leverage our outdoor existing infrastructure, all our parks and trails into trying to find businesses that coincide with that use. So, biking businesses, um, off-roading businesses, things that can help, you know, give you the gear necessary to go on a nice on a nice, uh, hike. That said, um, department doesn't necessarily endorse any of the all these recommendations, but did want to share this with them uh, with the committee because it the developer did take some time to put it together is a Wildwood resident, so thought it would be pertinent to include it. And also, we had a pretty um, a pretty decent conversation. Tonight, department wanted to present this report, get feedback, and we do plan to still collect uh feedback from at least two other developers um on what these spots could be and getting specifics on area one, two, what should it be, three, four, going through it. Um and then come back and have, you know, here's the developer side, the the builder side, and then have it obviously come down to the master plan subcommittee and then the economic development committee and the city council as a whole. available to answer any questions based off their report tonight. But really, you know, the walkability, new urbanism has been the main focus, retaining the rural side, which I think everyone here agrees with. And then um I think where this somewhat differs from the city's traditional approach, is it does endorse um going down the the pathway of doing drive-throughs along 109 U 100 even mentioned in some cases, but I don't think there's many parcels to do that. and then also entertaining this this concept of rowousing or just really high density along Manchester Road. That seems to be the the key key call outs within the report. But the department's available for any questions.

Cliff,

um I would just encourage feedback to these people that looking outside the box a little bit for different kind of uh housing like the 55 and older communities. We have one in Wildwood behind the Y and soon as a house goes up there, it's sold. So, there's definitely a market for that. And uh I think that should be communicated to to people with interest that way. And I've kind of said this kind of over and over again, the the villa thing, you know, people, you know, and I and I keep hearing row houses, row houses, row houses, but uh you know, we lose people to other communities because we don't have villas here. So those would be two points to maybe express to these developers about maybe looking at those also. And uh this is something too that has come up a couple times and not necessarily gotten to the phase and we'll note I think we did lose a form at this moment.

We did but to further discussion still doesn't mean we can't have the discussion. Um the when it comes to senior living facilities, we've actually had a few um that have been mentioned. And one property in particular that we've had uh it got somewhat far down the down the pipe, but it didn't get to the part where it would be it had a DCRC meeting actually. It just didn't get to planning and zoning

was here at the wedge property and they were actually planning to retain uh the section of old historic Route 66. So that's something that the department has taken into consideration very much and and has communicated that that that type of property. It it is a massive amount of vegetation on there. You probably have, you know, 60 to 120 uh grand trees on that site. Um so there's going to be quite a bit of restoration going to have to take place. Um and also where do you put them all if you're trying to develop uh you know large large scale residential development. But the idea was to have maybe like a a center facility and then having, you know, that would be the area where it'd be more so assisted and then having some uh smaller villa type u the houses on the sides here if you're seeing on the screen and then up against the

part. I remember that one cuz there was like an apartment complex in the middle of it.

Yeah. which I thought didn't inter didn't obstruct or not obstruct didn't interfere with other residential communities really. You know that you know you have the the rental units and I don't think it's really backing up to anybody else that's that would be sort of offended by um apartment rentals and things like that. So, at least when we first had that discuss and obviously didn't get too far down the the pipeline, if you will, um it it we didn't get too many responses from residents not supporting it. So, that that was positive in that regard. And then the other thing is that building, if I remember correctly, it was two or three stories. We were trying to get them to keep it at two. Um because that that would be the primary consideration for this parcel. Uh would be

first of all, I think this parcel is actually reasonably priced. I think it's like 2 point uh it's a little bit over two million versus some others that are similar size in Town Center that are almost double that, let's just say. Um that said, if they were able to put the homes like they were proposing on the outside to kind of screen the noise and then have and it was it wasn't necessarily even an apartment. It was like a a squared off building where the nurses and the administration would work out of in one section and then uh individual patients that may need a little bit more assistance. They would be able to almost transition from the outskirts of the development that they would have their own yard own home. It would be split into like a duplex situation and they would if they needed to that additional assistant they could move into that primary uh facility. So that said I think that has kind of given a direction that that could be that could work. Um I know that the developer had looked at it and the site does have it's a little difficult considering how it it gets smaller for residential um just working in the infrastructure but I think that you know that site and a couple others are perfect for it and we've definitely been communicating villas and then senior living facilities possible options

Joe uh yeah I might have missed it Tom did he did he have any recommendations for the like big yellow site and the pink site uh at the far end of of town center. So just the middle of town center I guess technically so he had mentioned for that

six. So that yeah that was the same. So he was meant what he had recommended in his report uh was that that would still be higher density uh the row houses, town homes and keeping it and he even mentioned that apartments for that type of area which isn't necessarily consistent but the row houses and town homes and I think you can make an argument too that that rowous town homes that's that's kind of down the same direction as villas too. They're different style but I think you could say you could probably have just as many villas if you split them um as you did with town homes. So I think there's depends, but that's what he's recommending.

Um, so I think one thing, and I I don't know how I don't know the best venue, I guess, to do it, but I I do think that we probably um need to start having some very serious conversations about that Main Street extension and what we feel is the best option for that from a city standpoint. And so, I mean, I would think if we don't already have it, we should have a rough idea of, you know, how much it would cost to do that road properly if the city were to just do it. Uh, also how much it would cost to maintain it once it were completed properly. Um because I am I am personally of the opinion that you know assuming we're going to have a pretty large scale apartment complex on one side of city hall if we if we were to put that road through I I think it maybe gives the city a little bit more ability to um figure out the best course of action for those other two properties other than just hoping somebody comes to it with something we like. You know, I know that big most of that big yellow one was at one point going to be that McBride development, which would have been single family homes. Um, and so maybe maybe more housing is there is is the right answer. I I've had a thought that, you know, a kind of book end to the other side of the commercial space might be an interesting way to look at that, but I think at the moment, especially with kind of the weirdness of that road, we are in a just in an odd place. And so it would be that would be one of those loops I would think that we can close whether it's you know we don't want to do anything to it or we want to look at is it worth spending reserve money or whatever the case may be. Um but I think we've got some really neat stuff happening over there and I think that it's it's it is time to make some type of a decision on that space. Yeah, we could definitely have that back and we were planning on having well originally when the N38 proposal was put

forth the idea was if that were to proceed but it was then at that point to start working on the right of way on the north side. So that was kind of what put us a little bit behind. That said we do have preliminary estimates and it was at 29 a couple months ago. I would say that with inflation we would probably add you know a couple hundred,000 to that. Let's call it 35.

Yeah. And that is and to be clear that cost includes the cost to extend Main Street not to underground the utility line. So taking and that was something that is very clear and needs to be very clear because if you were to take the uh utility lines up Crest View and bury them and use an undergrounding situation like we have here we're trying to do at Village Green that would cost almost $2 million in itself just to go down that road. So that said, we could still build the road and if we were to do sidewalks like we would always do, plan on both sides, sidewalks, that would in theory force uh Amaran to come out and move those utility poles back, which is fine. They wouldn't charge us a penny if they moved them. Um where it comes in financially is if we if we end up burying them, it almost doubles the cost of the project. That said, we do have good estimate and you know, quite frankly, we we have a preliminary design at least up. We could share that actually right now. Yeah, I would put I mean I I'm just trying to think through the process and like being having been on here for that McBride proposal and obviously the N38 proposal, you know, there was there were varying issues with both of those projects, but kind of the prim primary sticking point on both ends seemed to be either the Main Street extension or the TGA or what whatever it is. And so what I'm wondering is, you know, if we put that road in, what does the TGA look like in terms of those development spaces? And then, you know, whether it's $700,000 for the property adjacent to where N38 was going to go to do their section of the road. Well, that $700,000 can be used to underground parts of electricity or whatever it is. I just think personally like we need to get to a place where we are not um we are not waiting for people to make these choices for us. We can make the best choices we can. So, if it's we're going to put in the road and the sidewalks and Ammer's going to come in and push these lines back and when somebody wants to develop something, they can underground these lines and they'll go right into the brand new substation that we're going to have or whatever it is. Um, that's a better

negotiating place than like, I don't know, you guys spend the money to do it and you could do it however you want and we'll decide whether we like it or not. It just seems sort of silly. Hey, um, I was just interject. We have a what is it? DRC CZ or whatever the initials are meeting for Latitude next week and I this was something I was going to bring up Main Street again for whatever it's worth you know and and a couple other things that have been ongoing you know that but uh

yeah I mean I just I just think with the amount of money and what our expectation is for the village green it either we need to make the choice to put Main Street through or we need to make the choice to call Main Street Old Manchester where we have, you know, Larry's and whatever. We've spent a great deal of money to landscape and make it look pretty. Um, but we need to I think we need to make a decision one way or the other because the endless conversation on this is just it just hinders whatever we momentum we might have. And I and I also think not to get too much off topic and depending on how this conversation goes next month with the apartment complex, but I mean I was thinking about this when I was at a Chamber of Commerce meeting the other day. Okay. If that apartment building goes in, that's I think a $52 million project. I can't remember exactly. I think I heard that the community college was like 80 million. Is that right?

All right. And then, you know, we're obviously spending about 3 million on that park. That that's an enormous amount of money to be spending on two sides of things that are not not really connected very well. And it just seems like such a a I don't know catalyst like opportunity to go let's let's figure this out so it is position to be the way we want it rather than what we can get at the time. Yep. Yep. Um so the uh if you look at this so basically from here this is city hall basically to like um

that either only yeah whatever that I don't remember the neighborhood it's it partially goes to 109 already there's kind of like the middle section yet this section all exists and then so this is really all seems like a No brainer. Yeah. If you build it, don't have anything to offer. Yeah. It it would I think it'd be a great catalyst and I think it would show like you said we control the paradigm of the situation and you know give people much more attractive pallet to work off of. Yeah.

So one thing could definitely can do that. We already have the preliminary side of this done like the rough and I'm trying to pull it up right now but um to share the the sketch the rough sketch of it the idea that kind of we were moving in that direction but there was some concerns on the council that that we should not the city shouldn't have to pay for the majority of this street. So I I I think that we can definitely bring this back to the full city council and I think the idea or even bring it back to EDC u definitely still time in the budget. It's included in the 5year. included for 2027 to start working which we could in theory probably at the end of summer next year get it done.

Yeah. I I mean I I I think I would say this I I understand the settlement sentiment of some of our council members that feel that way. Um and that is genuinely the way that our entire city has functioned mostly since the time it was founded. Um but you know much like I realized going through not to change the subject too much but going through the the 4.2 2 million that the developer talked about for the Greenberg project, uh, which they were listing as extraordinary costs. There really are about $2 million worth of costs that are like specifically directed from the city or this substation that we didn't know about, but still sort of public, whatever you want to call it. And so from a building standpoint, I'm I'm perfectly okay as a council member and I don't think as a citizen of Wildwood we should be afraid that we are perceived as having particular uh tastes and requirements for developers to come into our city. But like we the model that we have doesn't it clearly hasn't worked very well in Town Center. I mean I was trying to think about the last time I was going to ask Joe or Rick the last time an actual building was built in Town Center. It was probably where the advanced carpet now stands.

No, it's it was it No, it was the uh the retirement the retirement community, right? Yeah. So, that that that building you're thinking advanced carpet one that was 2007. Um but 2000 I think it was like 2011 2013 where the uh retirement facility was built.

So, you know, that that to me is I mean when I was in the real estate business and I ran a company for a long time, everybody talked about how the only place left in St. Louis County to build anything is here. And so we have the ability to set the framing for whatever it is that we want to have built out here. And you know, perhaps the uh the relationship that we might be forming here on this Greenbird project net something out that is a very positive relationship. Perhaps the gentleman that came in and gave us this proposal is another thing where they can look at this and figured it out. But um I think these kind of like frenetic stops and starts that we do on literally everything, it just doesn't it doesn't frame what we actually want. We we do ask a lot from developers and I don't have a problem asking a lot, but we can't ask everything. That's nuts. Just that's just not how it works. So, I would if if it was me, I would I would get a plan in front of people sooner rather than later because then, you know, we don't have to have this conversation anymore. It's, you know, I think getting it in front of people that uh can decide these things is the the appropriate way to figure it out and then these conversations don't have to go on for 25 years or whatever it's been. So, in that case, in that I know we don't have a the quorum, but we can go ahead and either bring it back to this committee. And I know there's not a motion right now, but we could bring it back to the committee or bring it straight to city council.

I think I can do this for you since we don't need a motion, I don't think, since I'm the chair of admin and PW. Let's bring it directly there. And let's do it, let's say, in September. Yeah. And just to be clear, Chi, the department was leaning this way as well. The idea would be to treat this Main Street extension project just completely treat it separately to the review of anything that goes on down the street or anything like that because truly it when you conflate the two then you're letting I mean honestly it should be a city initiative where if anything they would put in something like that but overall the city should be guiding it's our road it's going to be

it is our road and and in my opinion if you know our we have a directive from the town center plan that says that these roads should be connected currently the main part of our city is not connected to the other part of our city. And so if we go forward and do the work on the road, that allows us to perhaps lean a little heavier on these developers to enhance their landscaping or enhance what their properties look like or enhance other amenities that help the community as a whole rather than going, "Well, we can't do anything other than put a curb in on this road." That I think changes the dynamic of the conversations we have all the time.

Yeah. Quite frankly, from the department's perspective, I mean, the thing that will happen and well, I'm going to share the just going to share this one more time real quick, but kind of looking at the future here that DZRC meeting is taking place uh next next week, next Tuesday is where ten will be scheduled. So, just as a heads up that it's coming back, um it will have at least from preliminary discussions, it does seem that the donation would be there for the easement, which is great. That means we get the right away we need and the rights to crest view where this was that at least from what we're hearing. We'll see what the the official proposal after it goes through the process. But yeah, we would still get the donation. It would have the donation, but no, at least from what I'm hearing seeing it, no major improvements like they wouldn't be building that section of the road. At least from what they're proposing, they'd be pretty much building access to the the site, but not building out. Originally, what was planned was they were going to build the entire this scaled back version of Main Street is what we were calling it, but they were going to build the entire width of it on their frontage and then the city was going to build their their side. That said, uh, the department's perspective, there were concerns there because that then ties, you should never really have a construction project like that where two entities are building at the same time or building at separate times or or even worse. Um, so the idea would be if anything have the city lead front and center of that and do it ourselves and if anything they would put into the improvements maybe that's a monetary or we get the bill at the end percent. I assume their primary point of entrance is off of Etherton, right?

That is correct.

Which is a nightmare of a road anyways. So I I think they're going to have their hands full figuring that out. And I would I would prefer and I would just double check. You guys may already be this way, but like I know we had a lot of different versions of this conversation with the N38 thing on Main Street, but the the plan that we should be talking about is the way that we as a city actually want this to be, not well, we can kind of do part of this some of the time. like this should sync up specifically with the other part of Main Street exactly the way that we want it with whatever that's supposed to look like. And if that means that the road becomes five, you know, to me, if that means the road becomes $5 million instead of $3.5 million, but it looks right and it's done the right way, that's the decision we all get to make. Um, but I think, you know, as Mr. Vunage says a lot, we only get one chance to do this the right way, so we might as well do it. And if we're going to spend the money, we should spend the money to do it right and not have to go back and do it again.

Yes. Uh we the department definitely agrees there and we can have it on that that agenda. I'm trying to actually bring up the most recent strip map so I can explain it. Um that's my computer keeps having issues loading. What was that? Uh no, not at the new latitude project. It was uh it it's a the project at least before it I know it hasn't had discussion yet but it it is um less dense but very similar at least the it's configured differently but it it is a similar proposal. Um that said for Main Street what that looks like is you we really can't go in and have and just to set expectations up front after some preliminary engineering analysis the front here in uh of city hall the wider version of Main Street. Then if you go through that that the area that would be the extension and then you actually connect over there u near Etheertton that you see that the road gets small. So that extension, that area of the road is going to have to serve as our bridge to get from a wider road to a smaller road. And we'll share this at the uh the September 2nd meeting. That said, where we'll be looking uh what we're going to be looking to do is the main engineering issue. How do you go from this larger road to the smaller? And there's a way you can connect it where it's pretty straightforward, but the sidewalk and it's going to bend a little bit. It it's not going to be as wide. Um especially if you want to have some some some parking on the south side and a little bit of parking on the north, too. So, there is all of that. No, no parking on the north. Um I think where we're going to run into the issue is that there are some residents after that McBride proposal fell through last year u two years ago.

Some of those homes that had originally planned to sell, they had at that point they they had been ready to move and they then sold to independent owners. And now we've got at least two homes that during preliminary discussions while the N38 development was being discussed, there was trying to position ourselves to move quickly if it was if it would have had a favorable outcome from the council. There was some significant push back in the idea of even getting a 10 to 15 foot easement on the north side to do improvement sidewalks. That said, it it just saying that that could be a hurdle for some. The other folks that were north on on the side of Crest View, they had indicated that, you know, it's going to raise their property value and it's going to give them direct access to the park that they would they would be open to it. That said, um it's going to cost anyways. We're going to have to pay for that easement, uh that rideway. Um, and based off the analysis of the N38 properties, it shouldn't actually be as bad as once believed. I mean, it was about 42,000 for the entire frontage along the N38 boundary. So, if you break that down by the seven parcels, um, it it calculates roughly to, you know, anywhere between 10 and $20,000. It's not as it not nearly as big.

I would be person I, you know, again, I can only speak for me. I would be significantly less concerned about that. You know, we have had a situation recently where we put a trail through and you know, the city went through the process necessary to do that. To me, this is not any different. I mean, this is a public safety/public good issue. So, while I certainly am not saying we should be paying people less money than they're owed, the you know,

yeah, we get to do what we need to do. That's how the government works. So, um I I would only also suggest and I think that that is all currently zoned residential right now. We might want to look at um and you know maybe kick some tires on the idea of if we do think that that is going to if the best use of that is to remain residential that to me means the road should be configured a certain way. If we want to leave a level of flexibility between maybe one side is residential and one side is not or the end of that is going to be something else or whatever it might be. um this seems like the right time to figure that out before we build the road. So, if there's like a I'm sure that there's some kind of a difference between a commercial road and a residential road and then I imagine there's got to be some kind of a hybrid version of that and that might be where we want to be just to allow the most flexibility that we have especially because we assume that there's going to be a relatively significant amount of people showing up at that village green and new park in fairly short order

coming from both directions. Right.

Yeah. And right now the way it would be configured, it would be it would be a one lane on each side. So that's that's it have a median in the middle. So that the way that the original scaled back version, I hate to refer it to that, but the way the scale back version looked was it was only improvements on the south side and was literally just two lanes right next to each other with no median. So the idea would be to have pretty much that same size road, but you would include a median to separate both lanes. And the way you would be able to configure it, you would still have to, no matter what, we're still going to have to figure out the ingress egress to the homes on the northern side. I think that can be done. Um, we would potentially have to repave or resurface their driveways, something along those lines. There's a way you would have to to work them in to make the ease of traffic. That said, we can definitely have the discussion and open to ideas today. I mean, the main thing is what at least this first developer was saying is that it should be some type of rowhouse, town home. But if we're looking to have some type of commercial, it would need to be redeveloped that I'm just trying to think out loud. Sorry. I

I would suggest this. I would take, personally, I would take the plan that we kicked around with the N38 development and find it on your computer and then put it in the trash can on your computer. We don't need to be talking about that plan. you you guys need to figure out what this road should be and how it achieves the goals we need, which is the bridge between, you know, the very wide road and the narrow road. I'm if we if we get a commercial developer that wants to come in, they can certainly redo the road if that's what they need to do. I'm not advocating necessarily that. I'm just saying from a city standpoint, we want to my hope is that you guys come to us with the best possible plan and allow the 16 of us council members to figure out whether that is the plan we want to go with or if there's a different plan or if there is no plan. Um, and the best way to do that is I would suggest you is to not start making hypothetical compromises right now. give us the plan that the way it should be and let us beat each other up about how that plan is going to either happen or not.

We can definitely do it. We really want that road to look like the entrance to Main Street crossing coming up from 109. We want it to be cohesive to that, right? Yeah. So, that's how it So, the way it's been configured and I I I do apologize. because I was not expecting the discussion and we would have PDF ready tonight. But we do have a preliminary design which

it takes if you're on that side of Athetherton. Um it takes that that look and feel and it would extend it to the to the east. Well, we' be going west, but extends it outward. And then all it really does is in some areas on the southern side, it would add some parking spaces to alleviate and have direct parking adjacent um both to any potential development or anything that goes down that way or uh specifically right next to our village green. That would be the the plan thus far. So that we I think we have something that if it could open, it would be uh it would be very very nice to see. So, yep.

That said, it does not, like you were saying, it does not take into this is purely from an engineering perspective, does not take into consideration what could be developed. This is just how you would connect the street. Yeah. I I I will say that this is your your guys very best opportunity to get this road the way that you want it to be. You can have that ready for the next meeting. Cool. So, at this point, um, how do I how do we proceed without a quorum?

Um, so we can I guess we can finish out if there's I can't I close the agenda, but we if there's other items on the agenda, you can we can keep talking about them. We just can't decide anything or we can uh you can you can ask if we want to adjurnn. I mean, we can ask Tom if he wants to adjurnn. I mean talk I mean I guess the last two items on here I mean reviewing the uh fundraising for all inclusive u playground and then um shaping wild future for the for the survey. Yep. Um are both of those more actionable items you actually won?

Yeah. So there was some feedback that we wanted to receive. So if there's there's tonight if the the committee I'd almost say without a quorum we can't necessarily approve the survey. So that would be something we would probably want to postpone. Yeah, we should push that to next month. Yep. And then for the um all-inclusive playground, I would almost encourage the department encourage that. U survey and I could be wrong. He didn't. The idea with that was to get it out for Celebrate Wildwood. Yep. So I thought that the motion at the one where we rewrote the questions was to rewrite the questions and get it out at Celebrate Wild. Yeah. That said, we did not want to we changed they were changed pretty substantially and I I know

I am aware so that said I want to make sure it got that if no one has any questions here it just with how much it changed I would maybe offer this suggestion and I don't know if you guys have taken a look at it we can't obviously vote on this but I would say if if you can take a look at it and you don't have any questions that might be a good indicator to just because we don't we I don't think we want miss the celebrate wildly window chance to get it out there. Yeah. So, I mean, and I mean, it doesn't have to even be a big question. If somebody's like, I don't know about this, great. Then we can punt it till next month and we'll figure something else out. But, um, having been the person that wrote the questions, I'm pretty sure they're okay. So, I'm I'm good with that.

I I would say we're okay. In that case, I mean, we as long as no one reaches out and says throw on the brakes, we will publish. Yeah. I I would say um and I imagine you can probably just send out a uh an email to the other members of the committee and say, "Hey, if you if you have any questions or concerns, obviously we can bring this back." But if you don't, the you know, unless I hear otherwise, the plan is to get this out for Celebrate Wildwood as was directed at whatever meeting that was. It's a August meeting. Yep. Well, no, because this is the this is the August meeting. It was in so it would have been it would have been J June or July.

Yeah. No, I I agree. We should definitely get that out. We want to kick that out. Except agreed. And the the initial motion was to share after the changes. It was something that we wanted to just make sure. But if that said, I mean, the motion still does stand. We could we could publish it. As long as no one reaches out to the department with blaring stop lightss and a break, then we will publish. Okay. So, we're good with that. Um Yeah. And then for the fundraising um for all-inclusive playground um I guess obviously the review but were you looking for another motion just to approve that fundraising is that

yeah that was more so a discussion in any we wanted to make sure that the the committee was up to date uh and I know we can't do a motion tonight but we we wanted to make sure the committee was up to date on numerous things that right now we have a f fundraising group that's getting together and they're meeting informally um to discuss the really numerous ideas to get donations for our all-inclusive playground. So, the department wanted to run by the committee tonight um and get feedback on the brochure that's out there. This was created by uh unlimited play. So, just note that we didn't have the creative uh flexibility. We were able to give direction, but not too too much in-depth direction on that. Uh the other side of it though was how we wanted to and this is where we really wanted to get feedback from the committee was how do we want to approach the business side. So right now that's going to be you know where we could potentially get some serious donations. Um you know after talking with the department we don't necessarily want to put smaller businesses out by making a large request or we can maybe make it known but we don't want to do individual reachouts u to like a a very small business in town center that maybe it's one of their only businesses they have. it's two or three people. Um, you know, obviously they can be on they they're already on our newsletter to our business community, so they would get maybe the message that way, but really more so having a focused soliciting campaign where these fundraisers that uh we got three individuals that are serving and then obviously Miss Robolinsky and our planning department and Miss Van. But those individuals will be making calls and letting people know, hey, this is going on. Couple ideas we've had. We're going to set up like a almost like a interactive area. We're going to hopefully get a screen up and have that a video played on repeat that shows off the the uh the playground and then also having u just information generally at here at town center and town town town town hall and then also at the celebrate Wildwood event we'll have a major section dedicated to to this this fundraising effort. So the idea though is tonight any any answers or anything

that the committee might have on how we approach the business side of things or just generally on the brochure we're happy to take any feedback. Is is there a brick program in the works?

So the way the way that's working is there is discussions on how you recognize donations and certain levels are going to reach certain certain thresholds will give you a certain return. And the issue that we have ran into is that if you set that threshold for a brick down at like 50 bucks that doesn't even pay for the brick. So in that case we've we've had to set a standard which originally there was discussion to have the bricks be given out for any donation. you get you get a brick and that feasibly you don't have enough space. Um there's plenty of room to do it. That said, we've we've set a threshold. We're still working on finalizing what the recognition is because the worry was hold on a second. The worry the main concern was you have like one business come in and they would be the only donor and then you have to name you know the park after this one business. So, we wanted to make sure that folks had ways to sponsor certain equipment, but they don't necessarily have a guarantee like you're getting your name put on the top of this this uh this playground. But that clearly could be something with the bricks. That was an idea. You know, if it's if I think it was over uh it was 5,000. So, if you are over a certain threshold, you would get a brick. And then in other instances, you could have different areas potentially named, but it would be the smaller donations would be just recognized online. It would be like thank you to our partners and the donations from and we'd have a full page listing the donations uh the people that donated. So that's it. I mean, the idea though is if if you would like to discuss what that recognition looks like, I mean, if a schnook or a deer comes in and gives, you know, $100,000 or something like that, it's a big check. So I guess that could be discussed independently. That said, uh, just wanted to run it by the committee tonight and it's really it's in the works. The council approved the formation of the informal group, but wanted to get that feedback from you all before proceeding with solicitation.

So, two questions. One, um, Unlimited Play, do they they're developing the marketing material, but they're not going to assist with any market like who to target.

So, they they do have like some general they have some general ideas of like the best types of people to target, but they're not reaching out on our behalf. Okay. So, I would defer to them. I mean, but we do, you know, there's there's this um creating a playground for for children of all varying need bases. You know, there's there's a medical footprint within Wildwood. I I think they would be interested. Um back to, you know, our feedback on how to recognize these people. um being on the the planning and parks the the uh focus group I thought was coming up with proposals for that whether it be various fixtures or

it it is so the idea tonight was to get just feedback to bring to them because they're going to be having a meeting here shortly. So we want if there is additional committee because there's some folks here that are on planning and uh planning in parks. So we wanted to at least share the brochure in its updated form and then just get any feedback. I I I would just say like Vicki really really knows this stuff like for real. Um I would I would certainly lean heavily on her expertise and and mine in this space is semi- liimited but um you know I I would say I would be very cautious about any kind of a brick program. Those are usually like way more trouble than they're worth. Um, and I just think that in situations like this, you know, if a Shnooks or Deerbergs or, you know, the Cardinals or Boeing or whoever wanted to write us a giant check to do a section of the park or whatever it is, you know, fine. We can name that at whatever we want. My my experience with these things is usually when people are writing checks of that size, they have a pretty good understanding of how they're going to be how they want. It's it's more of a question of how they want to be named, not how we're suggesting that we're going to name it. So, I think that that is one of those problems that I'm happy to face that problem when we have it. I don't think we need to think too much.

Yeah, that's I agrees with that. And the main thing we were trying to avoid is this. the the original intent was to have literally like a like a brick or some type of recognition even for a donation of like $50, which it's it's too much. It would do it.

Have we ever thought about like give this thing a you know justational period, call it like a year or two from the time of inception, let it go. Everyone who commits money to it, big or small, outside of some you know extraordinary um donations get put on like a onetime platter. You know what I mean? And let's say it's the size of a TV monitor one time. Everyone who donated to this here they were do it a onetime cost. That way any you know donation over 50 bucks or something like that actually isn't more of a nuisance or you know isn't a loss factor. It's just get switched out every year though. So I I would say only I mean you almost want to just have like a for like a formative type thing. I think I think it would get a little convoluted if you were to update that.

You could do that. could also do I mean the z uh I think I mentioned this when I was visiting the parks and planning like the zoo does a really good job in the entry atrium or whatever it is there's like a TV screen that just kind of like scrolls through the donations and so it's like this person is a bronze member for the 25th year or what whatever it is um that would be even easier.

Yeah. And so then it's it's you know assuming the the sign has power and isn't damaged in some way. That way you know it encourages people I think to go hey I'm you know not that we want to get in the business of doing this but as we know you know taking care of our parks is an expense in and of itself and this won't be any different. So if somebody wants to be there's a difference between somebody writing a $50 check and somebody writing a $50 check every year as a sustaining member of the park. and honoring that uh and encouraging that kind of a donation I think is more the way we want to go. Um but I but I also just think you know me personally if I'm writing a check for 50 bucks for something like this I don't really care if my name is on something or not. That's not that's not you're not doing it for the

I'm not doing it for my name recognition. Yeah. Agree. That that's the idea is that trying to keep it tasteful, trying to and and we'll be having these discussions. So that really tonight was just more so feedback and also from the business side is there a way that you know is the committee interested in using this as a leveraging tool. The idea by the group u the fundraising group is potentially you know if there is a business that may not be able to support us with a check maybe they can say hey I'll make a sale towards this type of sale or something like that. Maybe there's a way we could have like a shop local campaign that goes hand in hand with money that could potentially go toward like you

I would maybe look at it um look at Forest Park Forever that could be a good example of how to try to set something like that up. Um but I also remember them saying there was some kind of like and I think it's on here like some kind of like a sculptural element with like big flowers or something. I think maybe to Chris's point like if we have a handful of like key like large scale people in the beginning we go hey you guys are the you know the four flowers of the park or whatever it is and you that's where your name goes is you're one of those things

and then the rest of it you know allows it to be maintained as it goes but um I would think setting up a I don't know if we want to get in the business necessarily even to set up a foundation I don't know how that works for a city um but you know a group of business passionate about our parks. They could open a see and do that exact thing and then have that money. Uh the key is that they the way you have to report that is very stringent and city technically take donations one off in this case for this type of project it can take them as well but we can't necessarily get into the business of being like hey you're a residual donor.

Yeah. No, that I mean I'm just saying like the city's job is to put the sign up that allows them to put that on there or whatever it is, put the TV up there and let you know my expectation will be and I I saw this the other day at the opening of the Green Pines Park. They have a student there who's in a wheelchair who was able to play on their park for the first time in the history of the school, which was a pretty cool thing to see. And so being able to have that here, I mean, I don't know if you guys have ever been down to the Miracle Field in Chesfield Valley, but I mean, it's it's a it's an impressive and an emotional thing to see happen. So, I think I think this will become a bigger draw than um even we might hope. I I just think it's going to be a good thing, and I think that people are going to want to get involved in this uh in big ways. So, I would I would not I would not hinder anybody wanting to be involved in some way, but I'm I'm excited even looking at this brochure. you know, for $1,000, somebody can put a piece of equipment in here that, you know, that could be one of these businesses or it could be the Wildwood Business Association or whatever it may be. Like, let them do that kind of stuff. That works, too.

You can put a lot of plaques, you know, for this kind of be. I'm thinking like um Botanical Gardens has got plaques all over the place that donations made by this family for the Yeah. and and they're larger donations, you know, like for this piece of equipment, you know, a plaque could be for sponsorship of whatever it took to uh to to get that piece, you know, done. And it wouldn't be reallyive or anything. It'd be just a a plaque around that area.

There are some parks, and that was discussed. There are some parks that have the if like say you sponsor the the slide for instance they'll actually throw your plaque on the slide. That said what we have found after discussing with a couple other just cities for their other numerous playgrounds not just all inclusive ones um when you do that typically the kids they're they're rough house and they're playing and they typically you you'll have to be replacing that placard quite a few times. So I I I think that at least from the department's perspective and the feedback from the planning and parks committee in the first meeting of the group was that we would for the very large donations there would be almost a a conversation of okay how do we recognize this rec this donation really I mean that would potentially be able to work out over the course of a council meeting or two. Um, but for you know large donations of substantial interest, I almost think that we would put together some type of large plaque or artistic uh some type of monument if you will that kind of gives that recognition without necessarily overwhelming the entire site is is the kind of the the synthesis that we've gotten from multiple different uh groups. But that that if that is kind of going off the beaten path and we'd want to do something each individual that that could be done too. It's just we have to set up. Um then the other uh quick note there too is and this will be discussed the group as well but um there's also an idea of when the two things there's an idea when the the park opens up having some potential representations visually uh of what it would look like over there or have something that calls them out that corner of the park where it's saying this is what can be here help us out u that's going to cost some money so this a heads up that could be coming your way but open to that feedback. Um, unlimited play technically can and this is going to be discussed at the group. So, this hasn't been ironed out, but the committee uh will be discussing, you know, potentially having unlimited play host an event if a business would be willing to have, you know, unlimited play there and we could have individuals

show up and maybe it's a, you know, a charitable event for this playground. So, there's a lot of opportunity to to get the mechanism to get the folks involved. That said, if you know anybody, we do have cards available we'd like to share. Um, and just we're really just trying to engage as we can at this point and set up and get feedback on this. We're going to almost have a table. Uh, we might have to purchase a monitor, a TV if you will, to to have the the video displayed. But there is a video um now that shows the park kind of in its in its glory, if you will, it design. So, we are going to have that just running on repeat at at the at city hall, too. Literally just sitting up there,

but it'll Yeah. Yeah. that was presented yesterday.

Yeah, we had that we after that discussion we thought about it and it was you almost taking that it probably is worth it you know to just have that it brings it to life. Yeah. And almost having a corner of we get a lot of res we probably get 50 residents that come into city hall each day. I mean they they're coming in for whatever reason but they see that they're they're going to take interest and it's word of mouth. I mean that's what we really have to rely on here. um just because it this is an interesting one cuz we're not a 501c. We're we're a city trying to build a a playground. So, it's just we're going to have to draw up support anywhere we can get. Uh and then the other item, and this is going to most definitely require further discussion by the whole council, but u the official name the park 2. I don't know if the council members here have given any thought to it, but I think that's just something we might want to think about and at least not tonight, but sit with that. And if it if we want to just call it the Wildwoods All Inclusive Playground, I think that would work. It does sell the sell the image, but I almost think for selling the idea of donations, it it is nice to have a like a a name that encompasses what it's doing, which it is a playground for everyone to play um and be involved, but also something that would make us distinct from any other that have been built across the nation. I just wanted to kind of put that out there and open to suggestions and just going to bring that up at the next meeting too to kind of put together a few options and maybe have something come out of it. All right. Very good. Well, I think that's all I mean worthwhile conversation. I'm glad we actually took the time to hash that out a little bit. I think gives us all a bit something to think about and um you know, I guess we'll probably have a few more touches on this before it really gets moving, but good to be thinking about it. So, um moving on. Um I assume there's no miscellaneous from anybody.

Um, our next meeting is uh September 23rd at 5:30 and I would entertain a motion for adjournment made by Joe, seconded by Mr. Tier. Um, technically can't be so it adjourned automatically once M. McCutchen had left which we'll record that time. Colleen, just so when you're listening, uh, the moment that um, Miss McCutchen had left the screen, it was about 6:18. I'll go back and watch the video, but that was the technical time of adjournment since we lost it. It was in fact 6:18. 6:18 was the time of adjourment and then no other motions were made. Okay. Thanks. So, in that case, you can declare the the meeting a journey. Yeah, we will consider the