Economic Development Committee - Regular Meeting

It's not doing. What was it? What was Proctor? Trying to get in? Well, yeah. I'd click here.

Oh, no way that was. Destin did tell me about that. So it's just telling you.

I'm okay.

Yeah, if you don't have a default web browser, it always asks you which one you want to open it in. So if you sign into your Google account or an Edge account or one of the other ones that are out there.

Oh, I'm sorry.

It's asking for my city hall password, right? Yeah, necessarily for that. That's more so your web browser. That's just normal for computers, your web browser. I can fix it for you if you want. There's a way to do it.

It depends on which one you use automatically, though.

All right. Mr.

Chair, we're recording. We're calling to I'll call the meeting to order and I'll take a roll call.

Council Member Bacher, Council Member Kranz. Here. Council Member Owen. Here. Council Member Mabry. Here. Council Member Bottenberg. Council Member Dodwell. Here. Council Member Means. Council Member Kummer.

Here. Okay, thank you. Any questions on the minutes of last meeting?

There was noted And just the omission of council member. Yeah, well, that's, that's my days. cognitive diminishment. So just noted, that's all I think that's correctable.

I have already corrected that.

Yeah. So, um, And on the online agenda, you'll see that the correction was made. It was just missed out. Well, it was not included on. It was an accident. Um, that said, uh, if you approve the agenda as presented, um, tonight on the online agenda has been reflected. So, uh, no change would be necessary, but we can definitely note it here in the minutes that that changed.

A motion to approve the minutes.

Um, council second.

Okay. Councilman. First and God well and I was one of the memories. All in favor. All right. Yes. All the passes. All the comments that next.

The center we have no attendees we have no one here. We have no attendees on zoom so.

Items to discuss. We have online.

So, Tom. Yes, thank you, Chair. And we'll start off tonight with the recent business changes, other business news. A couple updates here, and one's not, it's on here, but wanted to list out a more recent update that we found over the weekend. I wanted to point out a couple of these new businesses. The Sugar Siren will be moving in at 16962 Manchester Road. Melissa Watkins, she currently owns an establishment over in Sunset Hills, and she's moving into the old JB Wellness location. So it specializes in baked goods that you would typically have for a wedding. or a special graduation party, things along those lines, but she's actually expanding the offering here in Wildwood to have some more take-and-go, possibly bagels and some other morning-type delicatessence. So overall, very positive to hear that that space has been filled so quickly, and we're excited to see her come. And we did get a confirmation that she will be open on Saturday, August 15, 2026, so just next month. Great to hear that, and we'll be planning on doing a ribbon-cutting for her. and her business here in the same month. More info to come on that. We should have a date here in the next couple weeks. Very excited to see them come in. As we are aware, we had a bakery there before, but it was more so focused in on, it was called Fantastic Cakes. It was focused on more so classes and teaching how to bake and had also a wedding-type offering too. But we do think that their model of adding in some baked goods for day-to-day purchase will help very much with their business, especially with the walk-up window component that was approved through J.P.'s owners. So point out that. I just wanted to make a note, Kurt's Nurturing and Topsoil has, they've been open for a couple months, but wanted to point that out. We've gotten in touch with them recently. We're going to be trying to make our way out there for ribbon cutting as well. They are fully open out there in the valley. Things are looking positive on the On that front, a couple other new businesses that we've been getting in touch with lately to coordinate. The Scratch Factory over at 16455 Village Plaza. It's a catering type business. You have to call ahead and they make from scratch for private events, business events, etc. We're going to be working on, we're going to have quite a few ribbon cuttings coming up, just a FYI, but that's not a bad thing. uh, the extension lounge, uh, also a hair salon that opened up at one seven zero one four new college Avenue suite two Oh four, uh, offers a salon style experience, but also, uh, beauty products, hair products, et cetera. So great to see them open. Once again, we're looking to schedule ribbon cutting. We're going to be backed up till about October this year. We're trying to get a few in August and then September is going to get filled up pretty quickly as well. Um, lastly, uh, We had Life and Styles at 2646 State Route 109. And they also offer handcrafted goods from locally sourced individuals. So really cool stuff. It seems like a unique offering and actually I've seen quite a few visits there just in the first couple of weeks they were open. So business owner seems very pleased with the turnout thus far and just looking forward to continuing. Broken record today, but once again, ribbon cutting ceremony coming soon for that as well. We do have just a couple more notes here. I wanted to say thank you to the council members that joined us for the Soul House Smiles Pediatric Dentistry over at 16560 Manchester Road for the ribbon cutting just a couple weeks ago. It was a very, really, very large event. Great turnout, quite frankly. And the business seems to be doing very well there. So good to see that they have a couple of locations and their Wildwood locations filling up very quickly. And a lot of their clients actually were coming from Wildwood. So they're actually able to fill in a nice gap. If you go to the Chinooks Crossing, Wildwood Crossing, they have a really nice sign up. It's a really, what they did there was really nice. They recreated, it was an open space. They went in and pretty much redid the entire interior of the buildings. completely set up and outfitted uniquely for a pediatric dentist. Anybody listening, please take your children there. It's a support local initiative. And then we do have next Wednesday, we've got Edward Jones that is recently, they're open now, reopened under new leadership. They had closed earlier this year, but had always had plans to reopen. They were just finding the right individuals to move in. That's located at 17221 New College Avenue. We will be holding a ribbon cutting for them on Wednesday, July 29th, 2026 at 4.30 p.m. But they'll have people in there a little bit earlier from about 4 to 7 for an open house. So great to see that and welcome to the community. And one other quick note, the Annex workspace, they had opened a couple months ago. We had noted this during these meetings we have here at EconDevMeetings. But They're located at 2646 State Route 109. They had recently reached out to us when we originally reached out to them back, I believe it was March. They wanted to kind of get moved in, get comfortable, get the space set up, but they are now feeling like they are in a place that they'd like to do a grand opening ribbon cutting ceremony type deal as well. So that'll be on the books here too. We're trying to shoot for August for them since they've been open for a little bit. more info to come. We'll have those in the weekly CA reports coming up in the next couple weeks. So under the econ dev component, keep an eye out. We'll have some dates we're waiting on. Get the availability from the mayor too and a couple others. But really great, great stuff. How many ribbon cuttings we're going to be having this late summer into the early fall. It seems like it's a good time for opening a business here in Wildwood. And the same can be said, one note for MTS Kitchen, we are waiting for them. There is The individual that was coordinating is out of town currently, and they are wanting to do a ribbon cutting in August. That said, the Temple leadership would all like to be present for the event. So we originally had one scheduled. It was on short notice. So the plan will be August as well. So we're going to have most definitely in the month of August, the Annex and MTS, and then we'll start scheduling out the others in September and October. So great updates and glad to see a lot of these businesses in opening. Bill, for any questions.

Is that bakery going to have cinnamon rolls?

My wife wants to know. We don't know exactly for sure, but we do know that they're going to offer morning. We could try to get us to get some cinnamon rolls in stock. They are going to try to have products that are kind of geared towards the morning shopper that might want to stop, grab a cup of coffee, and grab some baked goods. So I definitely heard bagels, cinnamon rolls might be a natural jump and natural leap forward. So I wouldn't be surprised if they offered some cinnamon rolls. You're very welcome. All right.

Yeah. Moving on. And third one is window signage. Ready for action. Yeah, one last little tidbit. This one?

Yeah.

The update on commercial activity?

Yeah, that's right. That's okay. So just covering the update on current proposed commercial development. This is more so an FYI on a couple things that have come across the city desk. Not all these, the first two that are mentioned here, there's nothing necessarily official on the books yet, no applications or anything along those lines, but both do have a commercial component. So I wanted to provide an update to the committee here, make sure that everyone was in the loop in case there's any questions, things along those lines. But Like I said, nothing's been officially submitted to the city. But one, we do have an organization, a group that is looking to redevelop the LaSalle property. And they have submitted an initial kind of concept plan, but it's not very detailed on exactly what they're wanting to do. But there's a range of uses that are being proposed for the site. That said, the plan at least initially is to most definitely keep and restore the historic components, but the other portions of the property, they're looking to do something to be able to raise enough money to take care of the historic components. We don't have the exact details. We've given them some notes on stormwater, if they were wanting to do development, what kind of infrastructure they'd have to put in place. But as of right now, we don't have exact specifics. They will be planning to go to a DZRC meeting once they give us some little bit more concrete information and answer some of the comments provided. But as of right now, that'll be the next step to DZRC. Joe, did you have anything you wanted to add there?

When Tom and I met with the two principals of the HECTO group, they've just mentioned that their first earnest payment is coming up in August. So we expect something pretty shortly. Yep. At least in terms of a submittal or at least some acknowledgement that they're moving forward.

And one note here too is that, just for folks that might be listening at home, is that if they were to want to, you know, part of this is going to be putting the actual historic assets on the historic registry. That is a process in and of itself. They have to go to the HPC and then ultimately to the city council. Then the same would be said if they do want to develop it or have it, anything, any use that's not the retreat center that's currently there, they're going to have to go through a pretty extensive process. So there'll be plenty of public hearings, review of applications, et cetera. I just wanted to point that out, but it does seem that it's going to be a pretty costly endeavor to rehab some of those facilities, some of the assets. So they're planning on putting together a proposal to see what could possibly be built there. Let's just say that.

Yeah, I was just, excuse me. I was just going to ask a question about, are they keeping all of the existing buildings there or? Just some of the buildings, because some of those existing buildings are in really poor condition.

Yes. So they're at least their initial concept plan had called for keeping all. So they would be keeping all. And then they had stated, was it the gymnasium? The convent, the former convent.

Yeah. They said probably of the group of buildings is in the worst condition.

Yeah.

gymnasium. I think they kind of right behind that, right in front of it or however.

The convent's over 150 years, isn't it? The convent's over 150 years old, isn't it?

Yes, it's one of the oldest buildings and it's the original. It wasn't damaged in the fire back in the middle 1850s. So like I say, it's the core. They've said all the right things in terms of The grottoes, the cemeteries, the buildings, just like Mr. Lee's explained, getting them to kind of better define how they're going to support all that's been a bit of a challenge.

Still pretty vague. Yep. But nonetheless, they'll have to refine that a bit. And then DZRC will review that. Any updates we get as we come along, since it'll have to go to planning and zoning, if that's the case, we can give updates for information here at the committee. Make sure everyone stayed in the loop on that. The other one, that I wanted to mention just because we had talked about this property along with others in the town center was it's along Manchester. We don't have anything too concrete yet. This will have to go to development and zoning review as well. But actually a local business here, high energy gymnastics and also partnering with Crothers Academy Preschool are wanting to construct two buildings on Manchester road to help service one gymnasium that would host a, you know, same activities that are taking place in the storefront at Village Plaza, but extended. They have locations in Chesterfield and a few other cities that are similar in size. So they're wanting to expand here in Wildwood. They would move from their Village Plaza location to a larger facility that they'd construct here on Manchester. That said, once again, that's going to be a pretty extensive review process if they decide to proceed. We have not gotten anything formal just yet, other than kind of a sketch of what they were thinking. And then the same for Crothers Academy, that would be a preschool type facility that would offer schooling opportunities, which similar size building, but they're looking to partner up, take a couple of the properties located off Manchester, combine them into one and have a shared parking infrastructure and be able to kind of almost kind of piggyback off one another. The high energy gymnastics does, it's more kids focused for gymnastics, but other tumbling and things along those lines. So it could make a good sense for it to be next to a preschool. Nonetheless, like I said, it is pretty, pretty new. We just recently heard about this. So DZRC will have some words on it. And then as that goes through the process, we can start giving updates here. We plan on having a standing item under for information like we have here tonight just given some general updates as these go through the review process but since they're both commercial in nature and offering commercial opportunities i wanted to make sure the committee here was informed uh then last but not least does anybody have any questions on that one they currently own those properties or they have to i know the actually the mosque owns the properties currently uh there had originally been HAB-Jacques Juilland, A residential development multi story proposed there that was quickly given feedback at development and zoning review and now they've come back with new concept that would include these two facilities but Then the other quick update just while with luxury living, it's going along pretty swimmingly. We've had a little bit of issue with a internet wire that had been exposed, but that has actually been buried since. So that was good. We're having some internet outage issues with construction vehicles tapping on an internet line. That's been solved. And generally speaking, the actual construction itself is going a little bit faster than even anticipated from the department's perspective. They've gone vertical and are almost, they've had all the way down to Taylor at this point, and they've got a lot of the retaining wall put in place to help stabilize it. So right now, I don't think they're actually planning on outside of the scope of the interior. And then on the sides, there's not all too much grading and whatnot to do. They're really just working on vertical construction, which is good to see. And they plan to have this done in early 2028. So it's moving along. Just a quick update there. Okay.

end of 2027 sorry yeah thank you uh i noted they they've met their first legally required deadline to be compliant with the incentives package is there a matrix or a chart with successive of these same types of progressive deadlines and milestones we have We could wander by and just note as they have finished the foundations and what went with all that.

Yeah. So in the agreement there is, and I can pull those up real quick, but, um, if you'd like, we can put it in a little bit more of a simpler chart just to have, and we can, I would be more than happy to include it in the support each month, just where they're at. But I do think the other, uh, requirements that was the big one was having the footings all poured. And that kind of was, it made sense. It was not only in the sites, uh, the ordinance that approved the development in and of itself, that that requirement was, was a must. So we had to follow our own ordinance that we had passed, but, um, Once that's done, then you obviously know they're going to be constructing the building. But all the other components, I believe, are in 2028. So with their 2027 deadline, they're going to probably clear that with an extra six months to spare. But we can come back with a chart that shows each of the milestone dates. Thank you.

One of the question on that particular project I noticed that the build out tends to be with would not metal kinds of things is that any fire issue or is there additional types of things that are going around that wood to minimize any fire potential.

Yeah, they're all, they're supposed to have those fireproof walls so that if a fire went off.

I mean, yeah, because you can put up a dry wall that's fireproof. Yep. So, yeah.

It should all be ready.

I just had somebody ask me that question, so.

So just to put it in perspective, years ago when they started the hotel, that's wood construction, and I was surprised by that.

Mm-hmm.

Yes, this is wood construction. So they fireproof all the metal components that are structural, and it'll be sprinkled. And besides all of that, Metro West did review all of the components of the construction. So if they've gone to a fifth story, they would have to change the construction components.

Okay, that explains it then. Thank you.

It just looks weird to me.

It's just not what we're used to.

Growing up, we were fine with it, but I was expecting more of a steel structure, something like that.

It seems like today, even all these new hotels, they go with the Marriotts and the Hiltons, they make them all out of wood, too. They're not very soundproof.

And a quick update on...

It may be less expensive than the metal nowadays. So...

Back to Mr. Mabry's question, I just wanted to, and I'll provide this in a follow-up report, but quick update that the actual agreement in the performance standard was project site in construction-ready condition that also tied directly with the footers and foundation being poured was that date, July 16th. But then the next one isn't until July 31 of 2028, which is substantial completion. So pretty much the biggest thing was them putting the foundation in.

Out of fear, I never had seen a chart of successive and multiple.

If they were not, the problem though, I mean, for them, if they were to not have this done by July 31 of 2028, which is six months past, they're anticipating to be about six months before that. Then in that case, they would not, they would not, we would be able to exit the development performance agreement so that they will have it up, I have to imagine, by July 31 of 2028.

the contractor, not us, the city, the owner. It's not my career. It's not favorite situation to have contractor of record pulling the strings. So I had not noticed one before. So they get to milk it out and they get to jump ahead where they can, but they'll milk it out where they can too. So, uh, as Ford said, 30 or 40 years ago, uh, with that little wind decal turned upside down, no immediate miracles. We just have to keep, um, my perspective would be that the city keep, um, incessant and, uh, near pestering quality interest in the progress and to have The gentleman's always here, literally the owner of that. He's always here at the... Ed Cohn. Thank you very much. Just to have him know that we're excited about continued progress and what's next. What do you got next? That's wonderful. What do you got next? Is there a schedule? There's always a critical path method schedule for a project like that.

Yeah, like I said, they haven't told us that they will be, they've said by December 31 of 2027, they'll be done. The idea is that's a good six-month window for a buffer there as well. But nonetheless, I mean, they have leased out supposedly the end cap space to a restaurant that's going to come in.

Okay.

You don't have the name of that location because I guess they're still finalizing some details, but they're anticipating that they'll start leasing it out in early 27 as they're getting closer to completion.

Does the city have a construction manager of record either at risk or just as agency? like our inspection component and we have frank that works on the site most of the time but no just so they're just a gc on a hard bed lump sum that we don't we're not paying a contract for they're getting a tax break we're not paying any contractor for that overseeing that all right i'll uh i'll just be very interested in their progress i'm sure they are too

So are we capturing the cost that we have to work that we do for them?

So we really, I mean, at the end of the day, part of our review process is that we make sure that things are built correctly. So Frank, we're at the bigger concern is that there's dirt on the road. If there's a storm and their SWPPP isn't stacking up and there's mud flowing everywhere, it hasn't necessarily been the case. They've been decent. I mean, Joe, you might have a little bit more to share there, but it hasn't been all too bad. But we're not necessarily going in and measuring every inch of it.

We actually own it when they're building it, right? We lease it? What's it? Yeah. Yeah, we technically. So we incur costs for that. I'm just. I think the agreement was that they were going to reimburse city for that cost.

So they reimburse the city for the cost for any legal review that took place and then we also did get 262,000 as the issuance fee that was to cover any associated costs reviewing the project and also reviewing on-site construction.

Have you received a check for them?

Yes, we've already been paid. We got paid last year right at the end of closing. How much? 262. How much? 262,000. 253,000? 262,000.

All right.

Any other questions, comments? We can actually have a, we can request that Tom Kime and come in and speak to the committee, be it all night.

Not now, but certainly later.

Okay.

I mentioned that you get reports on the sales.

Oh, yes, we do. We also get reports on the sales tax component. So if they were to make a purchase over $1,000 within St. Louis County, and they're not supposed to buy anything within Wildwood, and they haven't, every quarter we've gotten that report, they actually haven't made a purchase of over $1,000 for any specific good in St. Louis County since starting the project. So no direct impact. That had ties to our performance standards. for how much they could spend in St. Louis County since indirectly it would affect the pool. That said, they actually haven't made a purchase at least over $1,000. They might have bought a set of nails, but they're not purchasing their raw equipment in St. Louis County from what I've seen. That is an affidavit they submit every quarter.

Ready to move on? Ready for action. Window signage. Okay.

Vice chair and quick update on this is a bill referral from from city council and provide an update here. We have been talking about this the last couple of months regarding window signage and the fact that we actually had a section in our sign code that didn't actually classify and categorize window signs. It was an exception. And it did have the minimum coverage rule about 30% of your window, the glazed area could not be covered. But we didn't have, I'd say, as many definitions tied to it and also standards and conditions that would go with it. That said, after reviewing it, the idea and what originally prompted this review was we had a bunch of those window signs that were placed that were promoting possibly goods that have not necessarily a direct tie to the business itself. And there was maybe multiple of them. And we wanted to be able to allow businesses to keep their open sign, keep some similar signs in there that aren't necessarily a large distraction but maybe are able to have that internal light at a certain kelvin of course consistent with our lighting standards that said um we went forward and i the department believes that the current uh the regulations being proposed within the bill are in pretty good shape but we did receive comment from one of our businesses here in town center and one of the questions they had raised is not necessarily with the the actual the sign requirements themselves, because this actually does in a sense, the signage requirements that are being added through this ordinance, are actually making it more lenient than what we currently have. You can legally now have light-up signs. The goal was not to make it more strict or punish any of these businesses. It was to provide an avenue to allow some certain types of signage in the windowsill, but not necessarily just let anything go up. That said, an idea in part of tonight's report, if you scroll into that, you'll see an image that shows kind of the example of what the business owner had reached out about, the business owner had reached out regarding painted wall signs. So signs that are painted by some type of artist within the window itself to commemorate or celebrate, you know, either it could, in this case, it was America's 250 and the Route 6600th anniversary, but on the flip side could be promoting a good or a sale that they're promoting. The idea tonight is, you know, looking at this photo and looking at the idea of painted, I know we had done the snowman search in previous years. Usually we could accommodate, we could even accommodate something like this, someone painting in the windowsill to an extent, but it would, the one thing that this, this current display is somewhat challenging within our regulations that are proposed is that clearance rule. So we had in the proposed regulations from four to seven feet was considered the clear zone. And you were supposed to really not have any paint or any signage between that area. Just so if an officer had to respond to an incident to a local business or storefront, they had clear visibility into the store. And they could be able to get in there and see what's going on from a distance.

That could have left the lower panels empty. not painted and just painted on the upper panel.

That would have been fine. A hundred percent. So that's what it needed to use a ladder to do that. Well, that was kind of the idea behind it. And interestingly enough, the neighbor right next door actually has the lower panel. There was a, for some reason they have, they have it kind of cordoned out too, but the lower panel and then the upper panel had it and it actually had clearance between about, I'd say, three to six or seven feet. It was right above what we had required. And they did have one little sign in there that it was close, but it was right on that 30% threshold. And quite frankly, it could be kind of copied that same approach and could work out. Honestly, it would conform at least with the requirements that were proposed. So tonight, the question is, and we plan to have a little bit a sit-down meeting with this business owner. This was brought to our attention last week, so haven't had a time to sit down with them just yet, but we wanted to make sure the committee was aware of it. The council wanted to look into this a little bit more just because we wanted to ask specifically for these painted wall signs, do we want to create an exception for them or do we want to figure out a way to apply these existing rules that Right now, you can't have more than 30% of the glazed area filled in. We're adding in just some understandings of where it can be within your windowsill, so that height requirement where it needs to be clear. That said, if the committee here tonight wants to make a recommendation for us to review this further for a way to accommodate, that's the reason why we wanted to provide it as an example tonight, the actual photo. you want us to figure out a way to accommodate that type of painting in the windowsill then we can look into it and figure out the best way to have best practices uh moving forward one thing just to keep in mind though is that if you allow you know the same type of signage that maybe is you know 50 percent uh coverage versus the 30 then that that rule and standard has to apply to everyone uh so that's just the one thing to keep in mind but we're more than happy like was pointed out by Councilmember Dodd. Well, if that this same painting was put up in that top shelf, then we wouldn't, there wouldn't really be a problem. It would be compliant. It wouldn't be compliant with a 30%. Well, if it was up just in that top, if you look at that picture in the top panel, if you just had that top panel filled in, I would say that would be very close to 30%. It would probably be. Well, I think that if our be like 33%, but if you had a little bit open, say that center one above the actual door, if you just did the two on the side, two on the side, I think you'd be well below 30%.

Did you guys see her letter that she wrote? She owned that Magnolia store. She hasn't made any money for like 18 months. The signages that she's using has brought some customers in because it sticks out a little bit. My personal feeling, I'd do anything everything we can possibly to accommodate this gal and the businesses. This one looks attractive, really. Why would they move Route 66?

Yeah, I mean, so I think I can speak now.

Yeah, I'm done.

I think if we start allowing... I know, you've got to give me permission to speak. I was waiting for you.

I'm not like that.

Just join in. I'm just concerned that if we have the exception, then no one's going to do window clings. Everyone's going to go to window paintings. All these people that today have 70% of their windows covered with clings, they're just going to go to painting. I really think we ought to stick with whatever we think the rule is. on how much you can cover and where it needs to be open and available for the police. We need to make that consistent no matter what your coverage is or everyone will just gravitate towards the exception and we'll be back here three or four years from now taking away the exception that we granted. So my view would be to stick with option number one, which is make them comply with everything else. Now, like I said, at city council the other day, she's got this up. She spent some money to have someone come paint this probably. She probably didn't do it herself. So we got to give her a reasonable amount of time before she has to remove it.

But she's compliant.

Well, she's not compliant.

I thought you said she was.

No, I said if she would have painted, what I was pointing out is in that upper echelon area.

I thought I asked if she'd moved it up to the top, she'd be compliant?

Yeah, if she would have just filled in and the windows would have to be practically clear underneath, but you can see how it's bracketed out and you have that top shelf. If that top shelf was filled, then I think you'd have to leave probably the center one empty too, or one of the squares up there. If you did two of those smaller squares in the top, I think that would probably clear the 30%. I think you'd be at like 25% of the total glaze.

She's over 30% and she doesn't have the four to seven feet of clearance for the police. So she's out of compliance in at least two ways. So if she moves it up, she is compliant. John Gerstle, She she would move it up the top and keep probably what I think if you moved almost if you do that whole top you're almost you're very close. John Gerstle, So yes, you could drain a little bit over.

John Gerstle, Where you can find is to be even with her open sign, but the rest of it lower. John Gerstle, Pops me to be able to see.

Well, she shouldn't have a problem with that then.

Right, yeah, and that I mean we're going to have a sit down discussion with her and see if that would be a possibility. But nonetheless, I mean the main thing is right now, even even if you take away our say we didn't pass these regulations whatsoever. The current code does restrict that that amount just because it's over the 30%. All we need to do in this case is move this request to sign it. And it would keep you clear.

But just. So maybe I want to understand a little bit more on option two, we'd be setting a new precedent. Is that correct? That is correct. So there's risks involved with that, right?

Yes, there is. The risks would be, I mean, someone could And Joe, you can chime in whenever you'd like. But when we started as a city, the idea was to build out a town center that was very accessible and aesthetically pleasing for the walking pedestrian, not necessarily geared for the motorist. So the idea behind it was just following the principles of new urbanism is to create eclectic, nicer signage. that kind of fits in and helps kind of celebrate the architecture of each of the buildings versus kind of taking on the personality of itself. So the signage isn't always supposed to be, and I know businesses would disagree here, but signage isn't necessarily supposed to be the main focal point. It's supposed to be the architecture and possibly your wall signage at the top. And not to mention, we do have the ability for sandwich board signs. We have monument signs that are sometimes applicable. So there's a couple other options that can be considered at certain locations, but nonetheless, with these painted signs, if we were to have an exception, a broad exception for them, or to allow them, you know, really just without, you know, without any regulation, then you could see these painted up on pretty much any business. If we do it for one, we have to do it for all. Whereas if, you know, with the signs the way they are today, if you could put that up in the top shelf portion, keep that, that line, that visible line clear, then, you know, Anybody could technically do that, but you're still keeping some pretty strict regulations in place that you can still see in. The individual could still put, you know, and there's been examples of this where they might put their logo or something along those lines in the glass between that, you know, three to seven. You know, that's, you can still see in. It's more so when you cover the entire window where it's kind of difficult to see what's going on inside where it creates more of a public safety issue. So there is risk because in theory, you know, when we talk to businesses, more signage, more visibility is always the goal. So if you do it for one, you're very much going to have, you know, tons of people follow suit. I can see, you know, using like Mr. Owen had mentioned, if you move away from window clings, you could very well see just replacements with painted signs. I think there's a happy medium here, you know.

She's got to be happy. I mean, we're not saying she can't do this other than it up, right? So I'm not sure where the concern is that she had now.

Well, if she was trying to get into our Route 66 and USA 250, by the time we proposed this, passed this, and give them time, she'll get to keep this through the end of the year. So she's going to get to celebrate the Route 66 and the 250 through the end of the year, probably, because I think by the time we pass this, we're going to be in September, and then we need to get people at least till the end of the year, and potentially even longer than that. But at some point, we'll have to have her get rid of it, but she's going to get some, you know, she's going to get value out of it, especially given she's got two themes that at some point are going to go away, you know.

Mr. Chair, as part of the bill that's on council's agenda and postponed, you all asked the committee can recommend that we add a provision that amortizes any of the existing signs to January 1 of 2027. So you have that ability. You also, as a committee, if you think 30% isn't enough, for the glazed area. We could go to a third or we could go to 40%. It's up to you. There's probably a little wiggle route too in that four foot minimum to the seven foot maximum. It may be a little, again, the idea is just if a police officer drives by or a police officer is walking up to an incident, he can see into the building and not walk in blind. And I think that's a critical component.

Yeah.

So you have some flexibility. Just let us know. I think when Mr. Lee and I talked, if you want something more, we can at least research it for you and get it back at the next meeting. I think so.

Well, my question is that four to seven feet range, is that for every window? Like every section of that window? Could you have just put that mural on the last pane on either side?

To me, it's the critical around the entry. So those panes on either side of the entry and the door itself or the entry, I think there's some flexibility on the outside. We could talk to Captain Mandel and see what the county police thinks. But yeah, I'd like to think there's some flexibility that we're not seeing every sign on the top and the bottom.

I think you kind of lose it if you put everything up on the top because your line of vision. It's centered right about in that door to seven foot range. And then another question is, could we make a exception with a paid for permit? Like, so let's say a seasonal, they want to put something up there seasonal for maybe Christmas or Thanksgiving or

they have to pay up get a permit from the city for just a short-term use for maybe 30 days 60 days whatever the holiday season we have a duration and we also accommodate temporary now it's up to seven days per application no more than once a month so maybe it's once a month but maybe it's 10 days or 14 days around Thanksgiving Christmas I don't know like I say The group that kind of started this was heading more toward a direction to avoid what happened at Wildwood Liquor and Tobacco in Village Plaza. They just had a string of cigarette signs and liquor signs and they were bright neon and you could see them easily from Westland Farms Drive and then people thought that was a little too much. Tom took care of that. And so the direction was, let's see if we can do it on a more prescribed basis and ensure everybody's treated the same. And that's what the owner of Wildwood Tobacco and Liquor wanted, to be treated as everyone else. But we can investigate both of those things for you. Okay.

What do you think, Katie?

Well, I think we've given staff a couple of ideas on how we might be able to add a little bit more verbiage into the regulations by doing the full side panels from floor to ceiling or floor to ceiling or top set of panels and leave it at that. Anywhere from three feet to four feet wide or tall and the length of their windows. If we could describe that some way, because we're all looking at the same picture and just clarify that so that the folks that are in these types of retail shops have a lot of window space and they want to drop people in. So let's give them the ability to do that.

I think Virginia talked about

And I really don't want to come down on this business owner for making these really cool signs to celebrate 250. But I do understand. I think it's kind of hard to tell what you can see through the signs. I think there's some room there where... the outlines of the flowers and the leaves you can see through into the store around the bubbles on the tub you can see through into the store so it's not like it's a solid piece so i think she was very much trying to follow the requirements but we could just increase it for

for the paintings, you know, say 35% or something like that. I don't know.

So I guess, you know, if we want to look at it this way, and I think we're all, I think we're all heading towards direction. Let's figure out a way, you know, looking at this picture, how can we best accommodate it without, you know, just allowing it flat out. Maybe it's something where we take a closer look at that four to seven inch, four to seven foot requirement and possibly take, maybe there's something where, You have, you know, we prefer that you have your signage under that three feet or over the seven feet. But if you were to have something in that kind of Goldilocks zone, what can you have? Maybe, maybe that's the question. Maybe if it was just the Route 66 emblem located there, everything else was vacant and see-through. And, you know, because the other thing that might come up in these instances is, Because a lot of the times the businesses will put like their actual logo and name on their door front, which typically sits right at eye level. The reason why they do that is obviously because folks that are walking, they usually do by the same, they average height, typically about five, five, nine to six feet in the air. That said, maybe it's something where you have that allotment for You know, the two things, maybe you have that allotment for their logo and their business name and maybe their hours of operation, as long as it's individual word, individual lettering. So you don't have it just blanketly cutting off and maybe it's in that door. Maybe there's some exceptions there, but it's not fully letting it loose. And then maybe between that four and seven, we can have. trying to think here, maybe a tighter definition, but you can do something, you just can't do anything. That's kind of where I'm looking at this. You don't want to allow everything, but you want to possibly let something go in.

So to summarize, you plan on talking to her?

Yes, we do.

Okay. And then you want to talk to Captain Medell? Yeah, certainly. To make sure we comply with his request? And then you want to get back to us.

Yep. The plan was to come back. Well, depending on what happened tonight, but plan was to come back at the next meeting and bring back any research that you give us direction on tonight. And then we'd take that to the full city council. If there were to be a change recommended for the legislation, the public hearing still open at council, the legislation would just have version a and B version B would be the recommendation coming out of this. Do you need a motion for that? If we could get a motion to do some of that additional research, that would be, that would be.

I would say for a motion, I just think whatever we decide, I think we need to keep it consistent, no matter what you use. I don't want. paints to be 35 and clings to be 30 and signs to be 40. It needs to be, everything's the same percentage and the same placement. That way it's just consistent. It's easy for us to monitor, maintain, quote, please. And then people don't start gravitating towards one versus the other because we're giving them more leeway. No exceptions. No. Any emotions for that? I'll make a motion that Thomas work with the department to come back with more clarity on the definitions and talk to Officer Vondell to also get his input on the four to seven height. I'll second that motion. Second by Chris.

All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion passes. Thank you. I think that's all good, by the way. Yeah.

Thank you guys for the additional research.

Next item, streetlight electrical service costs.

All right. Thank you, Vice Chair. Our favorite topic, streetlights that are wired into private facilities. So we've been looking into this for a couple months now and wanted to provide an additional update. We had started this investigation looking at how can we, which streetlights do we have? We had to do a pretty extensive inventory of what streetlights were wired where and which ones we could 100% call for and say we have a bill that's associated with it. So it's definitely publicly metered and we could find the cabinet associated with it as well. I'm happy to report that there's over 800 streetlights within Wildwood and the ones that are owned by the city, over 800 that are owned by the city. And we're only dealing with about 32. And some of those 32 are actually not in the public right-of-way. We're really talking about a key of 22 streetlights being in three locations. One at the Bank of Houston, the other at Network Technology Partners, which is the same building, but just right next door. And then the other is at the church. living word. So really, when we look at the streetlights that have this unique issue where the wiring is actually metered into a private facility and then is ran on their electric bill, it's not very common. We used to have our street, our streetlight policy used to state that they would own and operate and maintain them. That said, times have changed. We updated our policy back, I think it was 2011. And overall, the request was made by a business that we would take over the associated costs. And when we looked into it originally, we were told that it would be a pretty extensive process to get the demetering process done. And then also you would have to go through the process of getting the approvals and pretty much an easement to get in there, temporary easement to then get it out and then build it in the right of way. We did get a quick quote. It wasn't bid out or went through an extensive process where we planned out a project. So I think the quote was high. I think we could see that lower, but each location would be $25,000. I think there could be some efficiencies found there if we wanted to go down that path. But I think based off the price, TAB, Mark McIntyre:" associated with D metering these private locations and looking at the fact we don't have all too many locations and in question here, but there are some. TAB, Mark McIntyre:" This would be something that we'd have to do over the course of a couple different years, it wouldn't be a project, we just want to snap it's not program we have it currently listed as an item that's going to be reviewed. under our capital program, see if we can maybe put away. We do one of these locations a year possibly going forward. That could be something to be considered. But in the interim, the committee wanted to look at is there a way or a number to face it off of for some type of reimbursement program. So that may be the best of all options where the city establishes a A strict finite program that doesn't extend to everyone extends to certain individuals that, you know, I would say commercial in nature that have access to our streetlights. We have an interest in the public safety to have those streetlights on. And we're keeping them on. We have some... We are willing to reimburse at a rate established by Ameren, which they have the data on this, which was provided tonight for different types of street lighting and the lumens that are produced by them. That said, almost establishing, identifying each of these streetlights and then establishing what could be a reimbursement rate for them. Then we'd enter into some type of program. The business owner would need to apply for the reimbursement itself. Then we'd have to go through a couple of steps to make sure that, hey, it is in fact wired into that building. And then there would have to be some expectations that those wires, not those wires, those lights would be maintained or kept on graphically that you wouldn't take a rebate or reimbursement from the city and then immediately turn them off. There are some penalties that could be associated with if someone were to do that. The other concern about creating a program like this would be potentially having HOAs and other folks outside of town center that have streetlights within their private property wanting to pass that on with the same argument that it is in the furtherance of public safety to have these lights on. That said, after talking with the city attorney, it does seem like there could be a way to reimburse. You would have to tie that directly to some, you couldn't just name a rate. You'd have to have either receipts that would show directly what the cost is associated. Luckily, we were able to find a pretty helpful document from Ameren. It's their tariff sheet, their tariff schedules included tonight on the report exhibit fee. The one thing I want to get more info on, I believed originally that these streetlights that we're talking about here, they all have a similar hue, a similar make, and we thought these are most likely dependent. Based on the color, it looked like they were HP sodium lights. That said, I have learned that there is a good chance they could be incandescent or they could even be mercury vapor lights. That said, we will need to confirm that component if we were to want to proceed. So the next step, a couple things. One, it does seem that we could create a program like this, but I think we need to make it very stringent on who can participate. We have a policy right now that says you pretty much have to get the infrastructure ready to go in order to change it over. So practically you have to build a public meter. I know that's an expensive endeavor. for these businesses that we're trying to support. So in theory, we could have a program that reimburses them based on a rate established by Ameren. We've got that provided tonight. The energy for, and this is a standard streetlight, during the 1990s to the 2010s before LED became a thing, The HP sodium lights, those were pretty popular. Some folks in some cities did kind of go towards the incandescent and some of the other types of lighting because they created a better hue. It looked a little bit more less bright, blended in, created that more orangish color. But that said, if they were truly an HP sodium light structure, it's one of the cheaper ones to maintain. And the energy, you can actually... can't do this all the time, but Ameren kind of quotes that out at $2.25 per month that it costs to run a light like that from sunup to sundown to sunup. And in theory, you know, we calculated it out based on the 22 lights that we have, if we were able to establish what the lights were, and they're listed in the tariff sheet for Ameren, then in theory, we could be looking at about 500 bucks per year that we'd be reimbursing, which would be a heck of a lot less than the 25,000 per location. Because if you look at this, you know, there's probably some efficiencies you could realize from the NTP and the Bank of Houston location. And then the church location would be done by itself. I think you could have some savings there, but at the end of the day, you're still probably talking anywhere from 15 and $20,000 per location. So when you add those two together, you're looking at, anywhere between $30,000 to $60,000 to do just two spots. I think that's something we might want to program more long-term, but we do want to kind of put some finality on this. And in the interim, the department's put together kind of a framework of what at least the city should expect if we were to create some type of rebate program. And first step would be to go out and 100% confirm the type of lighting and the lumens that are needing from large structure in front of NTP, Bank of Houston, the one in front of the church property. We could even check the ones in front of the Phillips 66. And Joe had said that there's some work that could be done on the new college ones that might be tied to a, you know, just some improvements that the private property owner could do. So that one might be able to be taken care of itself. But nonetheless, we do want to get more information. It's been kind of difficult to determine what type of light it was. It doesn't always say exactly this is a this many lumens, you know, HP sodium type light fixture. You know, a lot of the times it's a little bit more broadsided than that. But yeah. Sorry to interrupt. So we have two or three locations there. Right now, we have more than three. We have, I think it's seven, and there's two that are in this subdivision right here behind City Hall and Main Street Crossing, but no one has requested us to look at those, and they've stayed on. They haven't turned off.

We just can't find the box. Of the ones we're looking at here, I see three addresses listed.

Yep.

Are two of those one single box?

Yeah. So right now, the three addresses listed, those are three individual boxes. But where I was saying that we would probably do two projects is NTP and Bank of Houston. They're in the same building. For some reason, they wired, I would say, the northwestern portion of the side of the site. they wired those lights into NTP, and then the more eastern portion of the site, they wired those into Bank of Houston. What you would most likely do, and it would create some efficiency, you would wire them out, but you would create one public meter that would service all, I think it's about 13 that are on that side.

So that project is going to be more than any other project, because we're going to have to pull from two different internal boxes to one external box. That's correct. So if we've got... to one, you know, box that has to be pulled from two and another box. Let's say we ended up spending 50 grand as a starting point. The money, you know, we, again, as I said, last time in the meeting at simply 3%, we make 1500 bucks off that money, leave it in the bank. So we have $1,500 to spend every year on light replacement and we get to keep our 50,000 bucks. So I don't know why we don't just make this a permanent thing. If we really can get the tenants to agree to 225 to whatever, you know, that number happens to be 225 to 384, we have a different type.

And it gets updated, too, and it updates their rates.

But then our $50,000 grows every year, too, because we just made $51,500, right? So the numbers should stay consistent. So hopefully we'll get the growth on the 50 while the cost of the electricity grows. So I don't know why we wouldn't want to make this more of a permanent program. We're talking about being a temporary program until we move the lights. But I just don't see any reason why if we would ever want to make that capital investment. It's like paying a business owner versus paying a utility company. We're paying a bill either way, right? Because if we move those over, we not only have to pay the capital costs, but we still have to pay the electric bill. You know what I mean? So we're going to incur the electrical bill part of it anyway. So let's save our 50 grand, let that number grow, spend it on something else if we need to. But let's make it a permanent program if these numbers are, in fact, somewhat accurate. All right, 594 is a... We actually... you know, we're even making more money. You know what I mean?

I had a quick question.

Can I make a comment here? Um, I don't think we're in the business making money here. Um, I know for a fact that we could negotiate some of these deals down, uh, bank of Houston. I understand they're willing to pay half of the cost. I mean, there's some of, some of these we can, we can put away. Um, and, uh, I think we need to check into that if we can negotiate a deal or something. Because that Bank of America, Bank of Houston, I'm sorry, he told me I'll pay.

My guess is he thinks he's spending a whole lot more money than roughly $300. If he thinks he's only paying $300 and that's why we got to get him to bring his numbers. He shut the light off though. Yeah, but he probably thinks he's spending thousands of dollars a year to do it. I mean, any business owner would be, Most business owners will be willing to contribute $300. It's our liability. We can't. We shouldn't ask you what happened.

That was my question. This individual that owns the bank, what is he expecting to get from the city when he said he wants the city to pay for the lights? Does he think it's a $500 a month electric bill that we're going to pay for him?

or does he think or does he know that it's 35 a month for those street lights they're only a small pittance of his overall electric bill yeah i don't know but it seems like we're responsible for the lights uh and uh and that's our responsibility it's not his um i think we can work through the list uh uh And there's some of these lights we don't really need anymore, right?

Well, there's some that I think that the ones that are there, the only ones that I think, I mean, looking at them, the one off Manchester, I don't think those are absolutely necessary. But they are in a pedestrian area. And at nighttime, folks have noticed that they've been off. So we've gotten reports of it. That said... I'd make the case that a couple of these listed in the overall list, they're not in the right of way. So the ones that, the reason why there's only three locations, we know for a fact that the Bank of Houston and Network Technology Partners and the lights right next to the Living Word Church, those are within the city's right of way, meaning de facto with our policy that we approved, we took over the maintenance and operation of the light itself. Meaning if a ballast goes out, we're going to go out there and fix it. On the flip side, there are a couple other lights that are a little bit more particular situation. The Phillips 66 lights off State Route 109, the Wildwood Pub lights right next to the Wildwood Square property, and then the... Streetlights over here on Main Street Crossing. The Main Street Crossing ones, we haven't gotten any reports. They've been kept on. We cannot determine what cabinet they're being fed into. It's a pretty interesting wiring situation over there. But nonetheless, the two, the Phillips and the one off Wildwood Square, those ones are not within the city right away. So per the policy, we shouldn't be operating or maintaining them anyways. There might be a bigger discussion by the council to say, hey, those... are, they should be in the public right of way, but that's a whole nother discussion because then we would need to talk about actually acquiring right of way there. If they're not in the right of way, our policy doesn't apply because it's not city property. Um, so nonetheless, I think you could look at it. It, Mr. Owen's point is well taken. And at the end of the day, if you, if you're spending money converting these, it is money that's taken away. And if you're going to, you're going to be paying the electric bill anyways, you could set what we're seeing here is there is an opportunity here to set up some type of program for reimbursement, uh, The question is, you know, Amron lists these rates out. Is that, you know, what people feel like they're paying? I think that you could require bills being submitted to folks as kind of proof that they are, they are actually being turned on and whatnot. That'd be part of our inspection protocol. How would you do that, though?

How would you get them to give you a bill when it's bundled as part of their electric bill? It would be dead. No way, because their electric bill varies month to month. Not to mention right down here, you've got anywhere from 417 hours lit to 252. Yep, I know. So obviously it changes every month, just like everybody's electric bill changes every month. So I think asking them to submit any kind of proof, the only proof we need is we see the light bulb on.

That's all we need. If we did any type of reimbursement program, there would be random check-ins. So we would drive up, make sure that the lights are turned off.

If they're turned off, then we would take pictures of it. The biggest question is, can you get people to trust these $2.25? Because I was kind of surprised that it was that little for a light for 30 days.

If they're HP sodium lights at that lumen, and they're producing that lumen level, then that... That is correct. That Ameren estimates that and they have, and lights are pretty standard. You're able to estimate pretty consistently depending on what the electrical output is going into the light, what that total rate is, console metered. That said, what we're also looking into is seeing if Ameren, it depends on what type of light fixtures we are, we have, seeing if they could possibly work with us to not only take over these lights, but look at some of our other lights within Wildwood Town Center.

Do we know what month's And what years the Bank of Houston's lights were turned on? And can we get an electrical bill from them during those months? Because we know he's turned them off. And then we can do a comparison on cost. Of course, rates have gone up exponentially for the last three years.

But the one thing that would be difficult to determine, and it's well taken, if We were able to see five years of data of what their electric bills were looking like. And they turned off the lights for a six month or a year period. And you had that data as well. You could do a pretty good comparison to see what that adjustment would be. But let's just say in reality, it is $2.25. Let's use that as a basis. If that is truly the amount, that is such a small percentage based off when you're using your air conditioning, if you're running servers, which take a lot more electricity than one would think. it's going to be hard to notice that top off, whether they're on or off. That's where, and this gets back to the auditing principles, that we're going to have to have some type of rate established by someone, not us. You can't just go out and say, hey, you can do it best. You can get an estimate from them to see if it matches up. But I think we will have to rely on someone like Ameren to give us the rate to be able to reimburse on. So we have, and this is an official tariff schedule. This we can use. But the question I would have, and something that we're still working to confirm is, what type of light bulb is in there? If it is truly HP sodium, then we can figure out the lumens and we can kind of take it from there.

The only way we're going to find that out is if we hire an electrician. HAB-Masyn Moyer- To get up in a basket and look at the light bulb itself, so you want to expand that kind of funding. HAB-Masyn Moyer- Do that I don't know.

HAB-Jacques Juilland- To determine the light bulb if we were to bring on an electrician to check that out, I think that could be done for. HAB-Jacques Juilland- Quite frankly, it would cost more than what we do for reimbursing. HAB-Jacques Juilland- For a single year if it's in the 500s yeah for the 22 locations, we were talking about but. You know, it could be done and to establish a program like this, to make sure that we cover, you know, cover the basics. So it's a program that can kind of stand the test of time. If we're, like I said, if we're able to confirm the type of bulb, then the rest of this is a little bit simpler to put together. It does seem it's, it's legally possible to do it, to set up some type of program.

So what do you need from this committee?

Tonight, the department was wanting, you know, we were last month, we had, Robert Marlayson, brought up hey here's how we're still waiting on the quote to see how much it would cost to build these out the committee had given direction to say hey let's look into. Robert Marlayson, The feasibility of doing a reimbursement program tonight we've got a framework for that Program. The request from the department is if we're going to proceed with the reimbursement program to go ahead and forward this framework and the requirements listed in the report over to the city attorney's office, have them review and put together what this program would look like and legislation that would correspond to it. And then for the department side, going out and we'll try our best to determine what those lights are before calling an electrician. But if needed, having an electrician determine the light bulb itself. Chair, I propose a motion.

for items one through three on page five of the report, just as Mr. Lee has verbally reiterated. I haven't heard anything that we discussed can be contained in those three items without contradicting anything in the three items.

Under requested action.

Okay, I'll give my two cents again. I think your bank at Houston, I think a deal could work out if you take care of that one where we'd be responsible for the lighting for $15,000 probably. $15,000? Well, he wants to get it resolved. And we want this tree light on. It's gone. So you're gone with it.

$350 a year is what we would pay him now. So that's $15,000 that you want to pay him. And then what's that going to do? Have him keep the lights on? So the difference would be what that costs.

He's going to check to see if the light's on. You're still going to have to text people. Your responsibility is just paying. You're allowing a private citizen to have responsibility of a public street light.

You're paying $15,000. You're still doing that. The only way to avoid that is to actually pay to have the lights meters taken out of his meter and put on one on the street. That is the only way to fix that. And we do right now. You can't do that by writing him a check and asking him to keep the lights on.

Yeah.

Could I offer a perspective that goes with the current line of the Socratic debate? Any ordinance, any provision, any outcome of any action by the council goes with the property, doesn't go with the owner. Bank of Houston will not be Bank of Houston forever in perpetuity. What we do with the the panels what we do with the bulbs what we do with anything about this that's outside of the guidelines that we're providing for our action uh will follow the property not what any discussion any owner has about what he wants to do and wants to resolve it just doesn't it just doesn't compute and and i respect the fact that the city has obligations and authority and It's our responsibility for residents' safety and cost containment. That's nothing to do with an owner talking about what he wants, because it's going to be a different owner between a year and 10 years No.

Fair point. Because we established a reimbursement program. Control of the light switch. It's control of the light switch. That is truthfully what we're trying to get back. And that's what costs the significant hurdles money. But with what you're saying too, Mr. Mabry, is that if we were to have, say someone were to switch locations or something happened in the future, this reimbursement program is going to, it requires the applicant, so the business owner in this case, to apply to be considered. So that said, say someone else moves in, they technically right now, even though I will say that the site-specific ordinance that was approved for that, some of these locations do say, hey, you've got to build and keep these on, but that was before our policy change. In theory, someone would have to agree once again to that reimbursement, and then we would be able to hold them to account if they don't turn them on. Really, the only tool we have in the toolbox is to cut them off from that reimbursement. Right now, that's what it is.

Why would we make it on them to apply versus just entering into an agreement with them, which, Bob, I would like to say I wish we could have that kind of authority where just because Bank of Houston enters into it, the next person has to. But the reality is, I think this is going to be agreement between us and a business owner that they choose not to enter into. I don't know what power we have to say you have to turn lights back on. Apparently, We don't have any power. We're already doing that. So I think it's really, it's trying to work with our business owners to say, hey, we don't want you to incur costs. We want to reimburse you for the cost of keeping the lights on. But let's all work together to save $50,000 a city money just to move it out to a new box. We're always going to have the risk that we're going to get a business owner that doesn't want to do it, whether it's the two or three we have now or those in the future, but that's a much deeper option for us. And what we really care about is keeping the lights on. Yeah, it'd be nice to have control of the switch, but if we have business owners and we're willing to work with them, I think they would probably be fine just getting reimbursed for the cost of running the lights. There's benefit to the people over at Bank of Houston. Bank, you know, where you might want to go get, you know, a little extra money one night, you know, to have the lights on. So at least you have to do that in the light of the night versus in the dark. So I think they would want them on too if we just-

Why would he turn them off, though? Make your motion.

What's the motion? The motion, Bob, was we let them do these three things, and I'll second that motion, which is the three items that are currently listed in page five, requested actions.

Well, you guys want to do this, all this work to get reimbursement and write the checks out and all that, make sure the lights are on.

Well, the committee last month had asked

This is what you're asking.

Yes. We are asking to explore this further, but I will say the committee, we had originally got the quote for this, but it was a high cost.

So how many, how many individuals are you going to be talking to just,

I mean, with the three of concern are three business owners. You've got the church, you've got NTP, and you've got the Bank of Houston property.

So if somebody wants to cut a deal, you're going to say, no, we're going to do this reimbursement thing.

If someone were to come up and be willing to build this and demeter it themselves or do it at, hey, city, you pay it. I mean, we would bring that back. Yeah, no one's brought that to us at this time. So that's why we're trying to come up with something. So are we talking about three entities? Right now we're talking about three entities.

Okay. And these are the living word. I thought those lights out there are ones that we were not concerned about. Because of the lighting ordinance in Wildwood.

They're compliant to our outdoor lighting requirements. We would not have approved them if they were compliant to code.

I'm just asking because I thought maybe there's a question there last minute.

Don't worry about that.

Okay. So, so again, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to go out and get this agreement with these three entities. And we're going to try to negotiate a deal at the same time, or you just give them two options.

We could, in theory, have them come in and negotiate with them, but no one has recommended, no one has came to us of these folks. And I will say, some of them have just kept the lights on.

I could put the deal together for you on the Bank of Houston today.

That being said, I mean, it depends on...

I would recommend that we have the city administrator and the city attorney work through that process rather than the city council.

I'm joking, okay? Okay. HAB-Jacques Juilland- You can we can most definitely I'm saying that can be done.

HAB-Masyn Moyer- Yeah. Okay.

HAB-Jacques Juilland- If as part of this motion, and this would be up to the committee here if you would like to direct staff to reach out to these three different businesses. HAB-Jacques Juilland- And ask them, you know, this is what we're thinking, provide them with kind of the framework say we're still looking into it. Obviously no guarantees, but we're looking at a reimbursement program. Tell us now if there's something else you're thinking Because currently, because we're going to have to amend the policy to the policy states that the folks are responsible for converting everything and then just passing the bill back to passing the bill over to us once it's demetered and publicly metered. That said, this is going to be a little bit of a different approach. So we're going to have to have a slight exception within the policy that allows this program to exist.

And this program is going to last for

20 years, right? Originally, it was meant to... Originally, we had planned for this to be a stopgap measure to make sure the lights are turned on. But then while programming over time, you know, each location wouldn't happen in one year, but slowly kind of chip away at the problem. That said, I mean, if the framework works and, you know, folks enroll and it's a simple process, I mean, I picture like a quarterly reimbursement.

$50,000 is a lot of money. We just put $27,000 more than Essendon Kaplan. But anyway, Tim, you want to speak?

Well, if you enter in and you're concerned that once we start giving them this rebate, reimbursement, whatever you want to call it, I'm pretty sure there is a mechanism that you could install on any type of breaker to keep people from turning it off. I know when we ran a business, there were several different electrical components that we... Yeah, I think... a device to turn it off.

I think there's ways you can do that. It would be getting their permission to do so, but that's where, you know, I know the agreement we were referencing agreement, but the reason why we're trying to establish a kind of a program, a reimbursement program is that you almost set a standard of, Hey, here's our expectation. And then they reach out to you. We'll let them know that this is an option available, but when they reach out to you, they're, by applying for the agreement, pretty much agreeing to some terms. So at that point you can set a standard of, Hey, these lights must be kept on. And if we can, and we'll research that there's a way to force them to be kept on part of you, you know, being accepted and enrolled into the rebate program, the reimbursement program is, you know, having this mechanism installed on your, on your breaker. Um, there could be, there could be little caveats there that, you know, Hey, at least while you're the property owner, um, we can keep the lights on. That is the biggest concern is that we'll do the random inspections. And one tool that you have, I mean, if someone were to enroll in the program, say that they're keeping the lights on and then purposely turn them off, I mean, there are enforcement mechanisms that exist for that because that would be representing a falsehood.

Question for the city administrator. In my listening to all the discussion and then knowing that we had items one, two, three, I had considered that the wording of what 1, 2, and 3 says is different than what I'm hearing being discussed, and that we were going to come up with a proposed ordinance language. It's an ordinance. That's a council action, which would follow with the property. An ordinance doesn't follow a person around. They follow the property so that If we want to limit it to three properties, which I didn't know we were going to do, that seems arbitrary and unilateral. It would be for any and all lights that have the ancient panel installation that wasn't supposed to be where it was. However, that's technically worded. And if it's limited to three properties, I never even considered that it would be limited to three properties or 30 properties or two properties. It's a proposed ordinance language program requirements for further consideration. This thing about entering into an application. I never, that never crept up with me in here. The idea is that, and it's. I'm not even sure my motion, the motion that I made is even appropriate. If we're not going to use the words that were written on one, two, and three, we're making up side deals with. Current owner that we're going to ask. That's not an ordinance. That's a. It's a deal. It's an option.

No, and that's not, I would say that the motion would be separated from what you're, that's why I was saying you can add that to the motion. Because right now, if the motion's approved as one, two, and three, the idea would be to have the city attorney review the framework that's included here as Exhibit A and establish that framework and come back to us with, is there any last minute legal challenges that could come up? Is there any issues with keeping it?

To have the city attorney protect us against allegations of a taking by any property owner. And that's protected by, if the city attorney can come up with a way to make an ordinance, they have ordinance language that follows the property. For this reimbursement, it doesn't need the permission or signature of an application of the current owner. That's what the ordinance states for that person to get an owner's permit or a tenancy permit or a peace agreement or whatever it is. that whoever that property owner is got to abide by that city ordinance.

What does the current ordinance say when we took the lights back to the city and made them a seizure responsibility? Wasn't there something in that ordinance that would, in fact, require the business owner to keep them on?

There well there is in the site specific ordinance that approved the development that says you are required to keep it on and pay for it.

Well it's your responsibility we were given ordinance that says it's bank of Houston's responsibility to keep them on the page. But they're not keeping on not paying the bill and we're not willing to enforce that ordinance because for cities that okay so we would want to put another ordinance in place that we're not willing to enforce this clearly we're not willing to enforce that one and we're

talking about why we're not enforcing the city ordinance.

I would say when this was brought to the council's attention. Sorry. When this issue was brought to the council's attention, we were told by the Economic Development Committee not to pursue it until we had time to analyze it, talk with the individual property owners, and figure it out. We can enforce it because I have the perspective When Reliance Bank rezoned that property, they knew first and foremost, this is part of the streetscape. This is your responsibility. Just as any set of streetlights in a subdivision, we make the Homeowners Association pay for it. There's no question here. This is just trying to follow the policy that came subsequent to the authorizations and the zonings. And that is we accept streetlights in town center.

Right. Okay. We accept it in town center. Yes. That's it. That was a change. It's just like the alleys that, uh, exactly, sir. So anyway, so we took it away when we put the street. All right. We're going to go with your recommendations, but I want to add that you're going to, if we can put some of this stuff away, just talk about it and bring it back.

And, uh, and, uh,

Mr. Chairman, we need to make that as an amendment to the original motion. I was going to say, because I would say the first original motion is those three pillars, and then that would be an amendment with their concurrence.

I would make that amendment that we pursue the side agreement can be made, and there's a compromise to... in the reimbursement program with that individual or entity, I'd go along with that.

This is that quagmire that came up before. It sounds like a really 100% replay of that. Well, it's not 100% replay. This is what the Bank of Houston asked. It's a different issue than what we're discussing here. If I may just continue. Do we vote on the motion and the second and see what happens to the motion and the second under its original guise? Or do we throw an amendment in the mix and then only vote on whether we should amend, whether we should approve the amendment to a motion that we haven't even approved yet?

Yes. So right now, since there's an amendment on the floor, there is no second to that amendment. So if that amendment. She's saying we haven't voted on the first motion. You can amend a motion before it gets voted on.

Amend a motion before it gets voted on if it's been seconded. It's been seconded. So you have a motion, you have a second. But you can change the motion.

I'm not going to change them. I'm not going to amend it. We'll just go with what you want to go with and move forward here. I've made my... feelings.

Okay.

But if it fails, then a new motion can be made to a new motion. So if the second, so say his amendment was seconded, then we would vote on that amendment. And if that amendment was passed, it would be incorporated in the overall motion. But then if it failed, then you default back to the original motion that was made. And then you vote on that.

So you, all I'm trying to do is, is this happened before. And I said, well, I I'm forced to withdraw my motion.

Do you understand what he just said?

No, I really do not.

He has to get, Jim has to get a second on his addition to what was originally requested by you and I.

And if he gets a second.

If he gets a second, then we vote on it.

Before we vote on the motion, we may never. You've amended your motion, so you get your motion with his amendment on it. Well, then I've got to decide whether you can deny his amendment. Then we go back to vote on just your motion.

I would just as soon rescind the motion if the second will rescind the second and we can just start fresh. No, no, no. We're just adding a little more.

We're just adding a little more to the original motion is all. Do you want to add it or do you not? That's the question on the table. Can we take a vote now on that?

Do we even get a second on the amendment?

Did we get a second? We never got a second on the amendment. On Francis? Never got a second on the amendment. Never got a second.

Did I get a second on mine?

Yes.

Amendment that says that once we sit down to talk to these individuals, that they may want to say, hey, let's work out a deal by Bank of Houston. That's all I'm saying. You might be able to end the reimbursement program with that entity. That's all I'm saying. That's the amendment, Bob.

Thank you. That would not follow the property. doing that for the bank of Houston, cutting the side deal with bank of Houston. And I'm not, I'm not doing that.

Ending his responsibility and the city taking over the lights.

That's all. Okay. So he was pretty, what Mr. Kranz is saying, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're saying that while discussing with these property owners, if someone were to come in and say, Hey, I noticed that, you know, you could work that down a bit on the cost. It's going to be 15,000. Let's just say, if you plan it all out, you do it and you do efficiencies. It's going to be 15,000 to install D meter and then reinstall public meter. I'm willing to cover 10,000 of that city. You cover five. I think that's what you're talking about. Absolutely. Okay. If someone, if a business owner were willing to end the problem altogether where the city would still have to put money in it, but it wouldn't have to put on the entirety of the improvements. would we be open to taking those offers and bringing them back to the council for review?

I think that's what you're saying. The sole purpose of this is to have the city be responsible for the light, not the business or the individual. That's all I'm saying. At that location.

At that location. I'm just trying to do this logically. I'm not trying to quibble or cause consternation, but why don't we put a hold on doing anything until we see if this one solution for one property can take this one property out of any out of any relevance with what we're discussing for the last hour. And if that issue now becomes a public, becomes something that's never been supposed to be discussed, that's going to be perfect. It's like talking about quibbling about how much to buy a used truck outside. We'll be arguing the other two properties.

Did I get a second or not? No, you didn't get a second.

I did not get a second, so... It ends right there, my motion.

I'd like to see the deal made, but then not have us mire it down.

Before a deal even gets made, we haven't gotten a second on this one.

Right. And it's not going to happen now.

And he's going to be talking to the city attorney. And so perhaps in that discussion with the city attorney, Thomas can discuss a situation such as this to see whether it even is feasible.

It moves it forward. For one case. Yes.

For one case, for all cases. For moving forward. But so he didn't get a second. We moved back to the original motion, which was.

What's motion?

One, two, and three. One through three gets done.

Okay. City's recommendation. We're going to vote on it right now. Everybody understand it? Yep.

I'm confused. Wait a minute. So you made an amendment. Amendment failed. Okay. Did you withdraw it?

No, there was no second to the amendment. So then it's going back to the original motion and it is in the report. Yes, I see it. Requested action. That would be the motion verbatim.

Right. Okay. I got that.

That was, that was easy. Is the motion I made and was seconded do anything, does it do anything to keep the chair pro tem from Having discussions that may solve one of the three variables that were being involved. No, it does not. I'm not doing anything.

No. What do you mean? Then full steam ahead. So we can do what we motioned to do if we pass it. Thomas could go over tomorrow and negotiate a deal, and then he has to bring that back to us to agree to the deal he made.

If someone were to approach us. I'm just saying a deal could be made. That's all I'm saying. Okay. Any other things? Are you okay? It's your motion we're voting on. My motion's gone. This allows him to continue to go forward and see if... That's what I am.

It is. We're on board. Good conversation here. All in favor of motion, say aye.

Any opposed, nay. Motion passes. Is there a thing at the end for new items, discussion? Miscellaneous.

Under miscellaneous. After we're finished with everything.

Perfect place. All right. Moving on to Ready for Action C, Mobility Data Platform Study.

All right. Thank you, Chair. I wanted to give a quick update here, and this is something that some new technology has become available. We've been looking around. As we were doing the retail occupancy review recently, we were looking at some better ways to possibly check out the daytime population decrease that occurs in the morning. We have a lot of residents that leave in the morning, so we were looking at demographic data, too. We are also looking at some of the events we have. We wanted to see how that benefits our local economy. Some of these things we were doing the most recent occupancy review, it kind of came up as how can we better use technology to better understand the traffic patterns, visitor patterns in our town center. That could also be translated to really a number of cell phones that come to commercial areas at any given time. And there's a great tool out there. It's called geofencing, or you can use device ID look back that allows either one, you can check a property or an address at any given time. You put a radius around it, it can tell you how many cell phones are there. any given time. It's aggregated data. It's not personally identifiable. It just says there's 50 cell phones at this store at this time of day. That's geofencing. But device ID lookbacks actually takes it a step further. You can go back in time and look over the course of years. I think it'd go back as far as three to four years now for any given location. And we wanted to look at this as a possibility, and we've talked about it. The master plan group had brought it up as getting better data to support our decisions and more factual information to help back some of the initiatives that we do. But also, as part of our budgeting goal for this year, we wanted to start looking at how can we use traffic studies and then go a little step further. Is there tools out there that can help us understand where the daytime population is going, where they're leaving at? What are the pain points? Where's the retail leakage? Are people going directly to Ellisville? Are they traveling further than that? What time of the day are they leaving? What time of day are they coming back? Which I think is actually the most important. What time are people leaving from Wildwood and what time are they coming back at night? Because then if you could share that data with our local business community, they could optimize for that returning traffic or leaving traffic. we can also use it if we're looking for additional businesses to come into the city so that they know what our traffic patterns are yes so 100 that's exactly right you can almost take this data if you and the question is you know originally we started poking around the idea and we said okay if the data exists of course but it does there are there are tools out there one of the ones we were looking at as just a preliminary review. There's this company called Placer AI that takes all of these private locations. They kind of categorize them by property, but they also can do it by shopping center. They can make it as customizable as you'd like. And they can run back and use this, you know, cell phone data technology to be able to say, hey, you know, At this time this day, you give them parameters and you're able to check a dashboard and see how many cell phones were in the area at that time. And the other cool thing is you can actually check, well, how long was that cell phone there? So if you have a cell phone that goes into Deerford's, are they there for five minutes? Are they there for 15 minutes? You can get that data. And the other considerable thing that is included in some of these data, some of this data that we've been able to review is a possibility. We haven't done too deep of a dive. Just want to run it by committee first. But you can also look at, because it's getting, these geofences are getting tighter and tighter. You can actually look at, hey, someone goes to Deerburgs. Do they leave Deerburgs immediately and go home? Or do they go to Dierberg's and then they possibly stop over at Subway and grab a bite to eat? Maybe they stop over at Magnolia Soap to grab a bar of soap because they want to support local business. How many people are doing that? So you can truly get an actual quantifiable metric of, okay, you have an anchor store. What's the benefit of that anchor store? Well, it actually turns into this many customers at these locations. All of that seems to be possible, but we've tried to find a bunch of free tools that could try to give us this info and we seem to be getting hit by paywalls. Some companies are willing to do like a limited they'll check out a few properties and give you an analysis over a specific timeframe that you want to give them. So we can definitely use that to at least get us started. We choose a couple of locations and try to get a test analysis, if you will. But truthfully, to get access to all the data, Uh, it could cost anywhere between, you know, like 10,000 for an actual study. And that would be have very defined and specific scope to it. It could cover quite a few things. You know, we could check out different days, different times, more aggregate and generalized data, but also, you know, The day of spillover at Wildwood, what's the, how does that spill over into commercial activity in the city? And you can have it as broad as, okay, over the last year, here's how many people visited town center. Here's how many people visited this plaza, et cetera. You could do something like that as a one-time deal, or you could actually have a dashboard created where you can monitor this data in real time over time. That said, you know, the department was looking at this, you know, obviously we want to start with maybe we reach out to some of these companies and see if they're able to put these test case scenarios together and give them some limited scope to be able to do the, they'll give you pretty much free data for an example, bring that back to the committee, see if it really is helpful. Because from what we're able to see in some of the examples we see online, it does seem like this technology works. And if we were able to get this, I think the real benefit would be for each location that's vacant right now, on top of the data that's provided by the commercial sector that, you know, is trying to lease that space, we could actually put that data out there that, hey, by the way, the property right next door, or the property two stores down, tends to get this many visitors per day. It tends to have, you know, these hours are the highest amount of visitation that you have. And if we match that with using our traffic studies tools, and we have our MyoVision traffic counter that we can put out, we can actually start taking a couple different data sets and layering them on top of each other to get a much more exhaustive understanding of our commercial sector. Because the other thing we could do, and we do have access to it, but we can't share it publicly because we are prescribed to an NDA with the state. We do have access to the contributions of sales tax from local businesses. We can share it in the aggregate as in sense, like we've collected this much sales tax, how we show on our revenue reports and whatnot. But we can't say, hey, this business gave us this much sales tax revenue. When you do that, then people can make the calculation and then they're able to say, oh, that person brought in this amount of money. It can get the city in trouble if a competitor were to use that data inappropriately. So nonetheless, the department could still use that data to say, hey, by the way, you had, I should say, 60 visitors after that event that came from that event to went to the El Magway for dinner. And we can actually look at it and compare that to over that month, we actually saw a nice little jump in sales tax revenue as well. Where this comes in handy is that you're able to start giving depth and layers to what typically is a one-dimensional tool and more anecdotal in nature. You say, well, It seems to be busier at this time of day. It seems to be a little bit more active in town center after the farmer's market, which it does. But this will actually be able to tell you, yes, it is more active and you have 15% increase in the amount of foot traffic in the town center after an event. or 15% more foot traffic in the town center. If you run a promotion on our website where we do the shop local in November, where you say support local and shop local. So the department wanted to bring this up. The idea would be to kind of, you know, dip your toe in the water before jumping in here by reaching out to a couple of these businesses that offer these types of services and then give them some defined parameters more so. Maybe looking at the Deerburgstown Center, the Wildwood Crossing is like a test case location and getting some data that they'd be able to pull and maybe a couple of our events and maybe some generalized data for like a month. see if they're able to provide that it does seem like some of them would provide that for free as a case study as a case example for us see if that data is helpful and if we can apply that you know in a larger scale possibly looking into creating either doing it at one time study to get a baseline and doing it you know over a long period of time so it'd be like a year study so we can have data that we can trust and maybe we do it whenever a couple new businesses come in or we something changes dramatically within the city or we could possibly look at employing some type of dashboard technology so we can constantly monitor it. And if we had that access, then we'd practically have a tool that would be available to the committee to be able to track destinations that we would define as important for us. So obviously with the occupancy report, we went by each, commercial property location by location by location, checking if there was a vacancy. This would just add another tab to it, if you will, that has an explosion of data. It would have the number of visitors, and then you could have a drop-down menu to change the date and timeframe. You could ask, okay, well, how long do those visitors stay there? And also, what's the radius? How far are they coming to get there? And then lastly, how are they going to multiple locations of interest, points of interest at the same time? Before we spent too much time digging into this because it probably is going to take a little bit of time to put all this together and explore some of these businesses that offer these technologies and putting them together some type of RFP for their services if the data looks good and we like what we see within the sample that they provide. We wanted to provide this to the committee with a general price understanding and say, is this something we want to look into? The department's open to questions on this, but we wanted to first run this by the committee, see if it's worth our time and our metal. And if it is, we could start looking into it right away and hopefully get some data back to you within the next month or two. So we're going to get a return on the investment? Well, that's why we wanted to bring this up, because there's a couple ways to look at it. I mean, directly, probably not. So at the end of the day, if you can recruit a business here to the city using this data, I think that would be an indirect win. But you're not going to see the actual return on that until they start selling goods. And then over time, you'll start seeing that obviously they're adding to the pool if they're The only return you could really say is that if it helps you recruit business and help, you know, if we could provide this data to the businesses also as a tool to them, helps with business retention, then if you're keeping your occupancy rate high and you're not seeing a decrease, that would probably be the best indication of your ROI. But generally speaking, you're not going to see a direct, it'll be difficult to do a direct dollar for dollar comparison because you would have to add in like 15 businesses just using it.

I would think it would be a fair comparison that we have businesses now that they have that data. It makes it more attractive. So I mean, it might not be a dollar for dollar investment, but the fact that we have a more desirable location for potential businesses

Well, that's the thing too. It's almost like the city would kind of, it would help. I think personally, it would help with business retention because we would almost be able to serve as a resource to our local businesses and say, Hey guys, we, we did, you know, I know you're busy running your business. We took a second to just get some, pull some data on this, by the way. You know, if you open, if you add a couple extra staff, you know, the three hours after the farmer's market each weekend, we noticed that, you know, Schnucks Wildwood Crossing is most popular at, you know, 2 to 3 p.m. on Saturdays. We'd make sure that you're stocked up and your doors are open that day. Maybe that's the time you do your flash sale or something like that. I think all that data is helpful. And if it's actual cell phone data, does that translate into actual purchases? Well, we can track that too with the sales tax information. And I think that would be the helpful tool is if we get this info and then you then track any differences with businesses that might be participating with us and accessing that data through us, in theory, that you could slowly start to track it. It just wouldn't be an immediate.

Okay, I've been on this committee on and off for about 12 years. Yeah, about 12 years and about Seven or eight years ago, we had a company come in and they did an assessment of the city of Wildwood's potential. And all they did was take a prior city's results and turned them into the city of Wildwood. And Forgive us, we're not too happy about the results that came out of that. You know which one I'm talking about, I'm sure. I shouldn't say that they took another entities, but it wasn't a very good report. I don't think we as a city know where our residents are going from either a office job or work. to purchase products here in the city of Wildwood. And if the only way we're making money right now is through sales tax, we have no property tax, we have no park tax. There's a whole bunch of things that we haven't put on our public. I'm all for whatever we can do to get more data pulled together. But by the same token, and this was, I was going to bring up under miscellaneous is where are we at with an economic development manager who can then derive this kind of data collection, put it together for us, bring their recommendations to this committee, and then put together plans for, okay, how are we going to go about improving our economic growth here in the City of Wildwood. If we're going to go to the trouble of purchasing the software or reviewing potential software, I also want to have a human being that's not also the city administrator. trying to do this. I know this is your cup of tea doing the analytics stuff. But I also know you've got a lot on your plate. So that's fair.

And I would say that we're, we have not published the job description, we can, we can revisit that one thing we were looking at is possibly changing that role, not it would still have the economic development component, but it would also have a little bit, it might be a more of a council discussion, a full council discussion, but it would have a role that's helping assist me in a broader sense too.

And you don't need to bring that up in this particular meeting at all.

Don't think, but the thing is, I want to make sure we're not, we didn't forget about it. We're, we're thinking that with a slight adjustment, we can make that position even better.

But I just, I mean, from the perspective of doing the evaluation of different products that are available and then managing the vendor demonstrations, you're going to do that with the rest of your job you have to do?

With the help from some key team members. But the thing is, once you had the problem is, and not the problem, this is actually the opportunity. We do have all the actual locations we'd want to study. We have all those inventory very well. We also have the square footage. We have a nice inventory of all the commercial assets. I think the major time crunch for something like this is going through that process, like you just said, you know, going through, talking with different vendors, getting them to be thinking that we're interested enough to provide a sample, having that sample, reviewing that, and then actually carrying out, you know, the RFP process. I think that can be done. Once you have that data, I think that could be more democratized with the whole committee. Obviously, the department would definitely go in and analyze it and provide some findings, but I think there would also be a tool here to be able to say, hey, You know, here is a link.

Yeah, I'm not discounting that at all. I'm just saying it's not going to be an overnight thing. There's some time consumption that's required for that kind of stuff, Thomas. And I just want to make sure that we have staff focused on this so that this effort is a positive effort that brings us results because we need some results. especially since we have a state government that's looking for ways not to pay us any money anymore.

Yes, it's true. And we can, we will have the broader discussion on the, that position, but nonetheless, I think that exploring the opportunity, getting the sample, I think that we can at least get that started when it comes to doing, you know, the other components of putting together a whole, you know, analyzing it, but then also, because we're going to have to probably have the discussion too. I mean, At the end of the day, we're about to talk about the master plan update. I think there's some broader discussions we can have in the sense that if we were to lose our sales tax component, we're We're going to have to have some bigger discussions anyways. Let's just say that. Yeah, some really big discussions. And we will have to kind of stand. And one thing that you can kind of see with what they presented in that amendment is that they're practically going to make cities kind of stand on their own two feet. If you have a large commercial corridor, you might be able to grow with the rising tide, if you will. But if you don't, and you're relying on the pool, I could see some dramatic changes if that were to be implemented. That's going to be a stage.

And it's too soon to worry about that because it hasn't passed. I realize that. But it's been knocking on our doorstep for decades now. And so we need to, as I think an economic development committee, look at how are we going to keep funds flowing into the city through either what we're doing with economic development or what additional tax functions do we need to pass on to our citizenry in order to cover the services and the fun things that they want to do and the parks and everything else um and those are some hard discussions but if we don't start getting into those to some extent um we're going to have a lot of splaining to do to citizenry when, guess what, you don't get any repairs in that park for the next 10 years. Or no, we can't have a farmer's market because we can't afford to pay for a farmer's market.

All right, Phil, go ahead. So my thought somewhat Katie said, I think there's a lot of good data. You can get this. my concern is that if we're going to, if we were ever to purchase one of these, um, you have to really make the investment in doing the data mining and figuring out how you're going to use it, or you just have a whole bunch of data, which you don't do anything with, right? Uh, $10,000. I don't know. I'd be shocked. We can't get anything for $10,000 at the end of the day. Um, I'd be shocked if you're much under six figures, quite honestly. Um, But we'll see where that comes back. I don't think running the demos takes a lot of time. I think he could set some demos up and we could at least get an idea of kind of what's available because I can be good for us to do that. But then if we decide to move forward, I think we really need to be very planful on how we move forward. I've seen these tools get rolled out, spend a lot of money and. They never get used and you spend a lot of money that you don't get any value out of. And then the only thing I would say is there's some comments in here about us knowing where people are coming from. So my question then is how far did they track this back? And you say it's... It could be up to three years. No, I'm talking about...

The distance.

Who's coming from a different community versus coming from within Wildwood. Yep. That leads me to believe you can track me back to my home, which leads me back to you've now actually identified my cell phone. Now you've invaded my privacy to some extent. So I want to be sure we don't get our citizens pissed off at us that we're spying on them by knowing what they're doing, because then the whole thing backfires on us if all of a sudden people find out they're upset. We just need to understand that component of it and see what other cities have done, how they've handled that, because this tool gets rolled out. Somebody is going to see the minutes that we're talking about doing the RFP and it'll get out into the public and everybody's going to know we're tracking cell phones and we need to make sure we're we feel comfortable saying we don't know it was you that came into Deerburg that day. Because that's what people don't want.

We just know a device with no number or anything.

Until we track it back to my house. So if you track it back to my house, then you actually do. How does that work? Are we tracking cell phones with this tool?

No, we're not.

We're not tracking cell phones. I would be totally against that. This tool uses cell phone data. It uses cell phone data. Yeah, that is 100% what it does. Jim? Oh.

You know how many people are listening to you on that phone right now? Hundreds. Hundreds. Unless you have no apps on that phone. You've got hundreds of people listening to you right now. We're on YouTube, Ryan.

I'm glad, too, but even the phone. But nonetheless, the way that when you – and it's a good point. When you mentioned – and just to calm any fears. When you mentioned outside, you set the parameters, really, of what you want up front. So if we were saying where they're coming from, you would be able to set it a general – you know, almost like a point of origin, Chesterfield, point of origin, Ellisville, and just be able to say, hey, they're coming from there, not to an extent of, hey, you're going to this address. And I think we would want to avoid having any.

That's just what I'm saying. I think we need to be very confident and be able to tell people, we don't know who you are. We don't know where you came from. We didn't know what address you came from because that's when people start getting kind of.

Big brothers watching.

Big brothers watching me and knows where I'm at kind of deal. So I think we need to be a little careful. Joe looks like Joe's got some thoughts.

Also, just remember, anything we own can be requested through a sunshine. The sunshine laws.

Yeah. I want to spread that.

It would not be over-restricted. Yeah. That's another thing, too. So that would be going into it, you would not want to have personal entities. They're all designed not to do that. But I get the question. And during any type of demo, I think we'd want to hit them really hard.

Because I will say there's something out there today that I get this alert, community alert email all the time. I don't know how I got on this list. Seemed like it happened before I joined even city council. And it tells me when there's criminal activity of any kind, it narrows it down to a very small circle on a map. From the city's website? No, it doesn't come from you guys. I don't know how I got on it. It's called community alert email or something. It tells me when we have a heat warning.

Oh, that's through the St. Louis County Office of Emergency Management.

So I guess I signed up for that. And it tells me when there's, now it's like interesting, all these like these big crimes of assault or petty theft, people, stuff getting stolen out of people's cars and stuff like that. It tells me all that now. Yeah. I've used that to get my community to leave our gate shut 24-7. Some of them didn't want it that way. And I'm like, nope, there are too many thefts.

Anybody else? Yeah, I didn't want to be labor, but privacy obviously was top priority. We know it's metadata, but to your point, metadata can be identifiable. And I'd want to make strict procedures or guardrails around that. That being said, I do think that this metadata for businesses would be incredibly valuable.

That would be the true goal, is that you would almost use the city as the tool to pull this data together and then give access to our businesses when they're wanting to think about, well, I'm thinking about hiring another person. The thing is, you can start understanding what is the capacity that we actually have. Do we even have the capacity to support another store? If your visitor traffic is stagnant, it's not growing. And then you don't have a type of business that comes in that is an attraction business, a business that would get somebody to go 20 minutes or more. That's usually the key indicator is if you're willing to travel 20 minutes or more to that specific business, then it's an attraction. If you don't have one of those businesses come in, then typically what you're going to see is you're going to see a business move in. And then they have to live off the residual visitor traffic. So in theory, it kind of changes the way you would look at the individual businesses coming in. Obviously, any business is good, but it would help us classify and try to hone in our skills on which businesses do we truly want to recruit that might bring some more traffic out west because it seems that we've always faced that issue of, that divide that it's hard to get people to travel west on Manchester past Clarkson.

So one thing you said there that goes back to what Katie started with is we can give our businesses all this information. As soon as you start letting them know you have all this information, you can't, we're not going to probably be able to give them the tool. they're going to need to come to someone. So all of a sudden now you're going to get inundated with requests from our businesses about information. So we have to be prepared because that's a great use of it. But now if we don't have anyone that actually has the time to provide that information, now we've got data that our businesses can't get access to because we don't have the personnel to get it for.

That's great. Well, in that case, I mean, we can do something where more than happy to postpone this and have a little bit more further refinement, do some additional research on the, especially on the privacy concerns, make sure that's all on the tip top before we even start a process.

Well, I would say a number one on your list here is evaluate platforms and then come talk to us about it at the next meeting.

I make a motion to proceed with the study, right?

So I'll make a motion that we move forward with the four requested items and the requested action at the very bottom of the memo. Second.

Any discussion? All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any nays? Motion passes. Not ready for action? None? Miscellaneous? I did.

Thanks. Mr. Lee, I'd like to know that the motion that was passed on the electrical services in no way keeps any one of these current donors that that are the subject of this issue would make an unsolicited proposal to the city by whatever means they think of doing it, whether or not they have conversations with someone else or not, that the city can be receptive to receive a proposal from any entity that is a matter of discussion.

Oh, yeah.

And this separately and different than anything else that we motioned for you to proceed with tonight, that can be, the city attorney can decide that that proposal or a solution to a problem we have can be received and negotiated and accepted for council action. That can come to us first. We can mits and buts about it. But then become a council action completely separate from anything that's remaining for the other two or 12 or 15 or one that we're discussing. Yes. That brings up discussions with people here without any constraints.

Yes. And anybody that If they approach us, the one thing that I just want to point out, and they could, they could 100% submit something to us. If we got it, we would pass it along. We'd probably bring it to this committee and then pass it along to the full city council for consideration. Even if we had this ordinance set up for a reimbursement program, someone could come in at the last minute, even when the reimbursement program's on and passed, someone could come up and say, hey, I just want to take care of this here. I can offer this. Would the city consider it? The council has the authority to do that. That said, I would like to note one thing, though, is that our policy, there's a lot of attachments on the report, so I apologize for the lengthiness there. But the attachment E, the resolution 2011-07, that is the current policy on the books. And the one thing I like to, the reason why I keep including this and wanted to point out is that Our current policy states that we can't take on the electric bill until someone demeters it. So no matter what we do, we're going to have to amend this policy, whether it be through some type of reimbursement program or if we were to make a deal. If someone's not proposing to fully demeter it themselves and put it in the public right-of-way and then

dedicate that bill to the city unless it's that then we have to change our policy because our policy strictly prohibits us from doing anything else so the council has the authority to do so it will always be a council matter any proposal that comes into the city needs to be made aware of that yep that's fine yep sounds like they it sounds like one or more of these entities have already been made aware of that and they still want a solution okay anybody else

Next meeting is Monday, August 17th. Same time, 5.30. Motion to adjourn? Motion to adjourn. Second. Bill, second by Bob. All in favor? Any opposed? We'll stay here.