Architectural Review Board - Regular Meeting

Mr. Chair, members of the board, we are now live and everyone can hear us.

Okay, and it's 630, so we'll get started. So welcome. If the staff would please call the rolls, please.

Yes, Mr. Chair. Vice Chair Jones? Here. Chair Lavely?

Here.

Secretary Ritter?

Present.

Member Parsons?

Here.

And alternate Bartelsmeyer? And it's not with us. And council member is not with us yet.

All right, good. First thing is you have minutes from the last meeting. So a motion would be in order to approve the minutes of the May 14th meeting. I move. All right, so moves. Is there a second? I'll second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed nay. The ayes have it. The May 14th minutes are approved. And the agenda, we've got two cases that we'll be dealing with tonight. I guess if there's anything else that anybody has, let us know. Otherwise, that's the agenda. We do allow for public comments. Should there be any public comments? some things other than are on the agenda. So I will ask if there are any other public comments or if there's any online indicating that there are.

Mr. Chair, we have no participants online. It does look like we have a few participants in the audience if they would like to make comments.

So other than the cases that we'll be dealing with, anyone have comments on other things? If not, we will proceed. And so first is the whole business, which is the second review of Ashley Grove. So turn to the staff to read in the case and take us from there.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Second review of Ashley Grove subdivision 2623 Center Avenue. Second review of architectural drawings and related items for five models of homes to be offered in the Ashley Grove subdivision. A new 11-lot subdivision within Town Center. Particular property located in Ward 1. Thank you, sir.

Okay. And, um, Did you want to make any comments before we go, please?

Yes. I was just going to introduce the case for the benefit of those who weren't with us last meeting. Again, this is the second review of the Ashley Grove subdivision and the five styles of homes that are proposed by the applicant. The Ashley Grove subdivision is being built south of Manchester Road and to the west of Center Avenue. It will be 11 lots total. It is zoned R3 with a planned residential development overlay district associated with it as well. It is located within the Wildwood Town Center in the neighborhood Edge District. Again, as described last time, the development will consist of 11 single-family homes on 11 lots. And there is a 12th lot in the same area with an existing residence. But we are discussing these 11 lots here today. These are the existing conditions of the site. And these are the front elevations of the five styles of homes that are being proposed and are associated with the development. And that concludes my introduction at this time. However, the department does have some comments it would like to make prior to that applicant beginning their presentation.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair and members of the board, as you know from this introduction, this particular set of models was before members at our last meeting. Generally speaking, the members were supportive of the submittals in terms of they being side entry. Three of the 11 lots, due to certain circumstances relative to the perimeter, the boundary of the lot shape, were authorized for two side of one front to create a courtyard. For the most part, all of 11 are intended to have at least two of the parking spaces, the aside of trigger Rogers. Also they're using the Hardy board, citing the 30 year minimum architectural shingles. And from the perspective of the department and the organ carriage doors with windows or the garages themselves, all of these items are contained within the governing ordinance that was passed or this particular project. in the report that was provided to you all as part of the packet tonight. Kishner obviously has these models mastered with St. Louis County. mastering process relative to architectural drawings for the models is somewhat laborious and expensive. To this point, the department has allowed them to add the notes next to the models relative to the requirements for hardy board siding, the architectural shingles. That is basically what you see before you tonight on that list of items A through O, just to ensure that as part of your action, Those components that are in the site-specific ordinance translate from the notes on the side of the elevations to actual implementation when construction begins. In those, there is nothing out of the ordinary necessarily. I will draw your attention to item C and item M. C is relative to the front porches. In town center with our new urbanism, we require porches to be usable, meaning they must generally accommodate furniture on them so that they can be used by the occupants of the home. And then the other relates to A item that the architectural review board passed had taught the department and that as you go into the recess of the front porch area, any materials that are on those front elevation walls need to be extended into that area so there's a consistent type of material and character in color. Those are the two items I just want to draw everyone's attention to. Other than that, just keep an eye or available for any questions regarding our report And we do have a representative from Prestige Homes here tonight. Mr. Mayor is on vacation. So we've got the next in line.

So please join us and fill us in wherever you would feel comfortable with. If you need to refer to the slides, she can help you take care of that.

I've been Chuck Mueller. I've been with Prestige for about six years. I'm superintendent for him. THE TRY TO ANSWER ALL YOUR QUESTIONS.

I THINK IF YOU WOULD JUST PROVIDE FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF THE PROJECT, EVEN THOUGH WE'VE HEARD SOME OF IT, JUST VERY BRIEFLY, BECAUSE NOT ALL OF THE BOARD MEMBERS WERE AT THE LAST MEETING. JUST ANY HIGHLIGHTS, I GUESS.

AT THE MOMENT I'M BUILDING THESE HOMES IN CHESTERFIELD, SAME HOMES. WE TAKE ALL SIDING TO GRADE. Um, use all Hardy siding mirror tech corners, all, um, waterproof water resistant material on the outside. Everything's paintable. Um, they have options for brick areas, you know, just everything, um, typical. We put on foundations, when we do siding on foundations, we've been tap conning them on. We tried the nailers in the foundation and we get some waves in the siding. So we went to just tap con top can, tap conning the siding on.

What is the range of size of these homes? What, sir? The range of size. How big are they?

Depends what they do to them. They're $3,500, so a little bit over $4,000.

With the chair's permission, Mr. Ritter, when Mr. Mayer was here at the May meeting, he mentioned that one of the things that prestige homes price themselves on is their customization. And so they work with the client, and if the client wants to change something, they're not objectionable to that. And he mentioned adding additional square footage.

Yeah, it's all customer service. I mean, we do a lot of custom stuff to these homes within the specs of the home. We don't change the foundation, the structure, or anything like that. It's just, yeah.

Any other questions or comments?

Me.

concerns or suggestions that we will have. We'll be asked to approve the five models to then go to the, our recommendation goes to the Board of Appeals, right? No?

Mr. Chair, Ms. Keefe and I would respectfully request that you're ready to make a motion to approve the five models with the requirements identified as the truth. Thank you.

there a motion to approve i'll make a motion to approve personal seconds any further discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye those opposed nay the eyes have it we have the approval from the architectural review board appreciate step is whatever the city has for you thank you all right thank you And we'll go back for the new case, if you would, please.

Mr. Chair, thank you. First review of the single family dwelling to be located on our parcel of ground addressed as 2552 Lindy Lane being designated neighborhood edge district by the city's town center plan. All single family dwellings located by should say within the town center boundaries map must be reviewed and acted upon by the city's architectural review board. This particular property is located in Ward 8. Thank you, sir.

Mr. Chair, Mr. Board, this case is not very far from the last. The subject property is just east of Lindy Lane and north of Manchester Road and having frontage on each. A single family dwelling is being proposed for the lot. The lot is currently zoned MU non-urban residence district, and it is about a quarter acre in size. It is located within the neighborhood edge district of Wildwood Center. This is the landscape. and floor plans submitted by the applicant. So here you can see it in proximity to Lindy Lane and Manchester Road. The house is facing Lindy Lane in this case with the side, the two-car side entry garage facing Manchester Road. There is also a third garage bay just back behind it, this blue square. These are the existing conditions of the lot. So here we can see the subject property facing Manchester Road. Subject property from Lindy Lane. It is facing Lindy Lane. And then this is the view from Manchester. These are the 3d color renderings of the home provided by See the front of it. Rear Perspective side of it with garage. You can see the left side elevation Elevation Right side elevation AND THE REAR ELEVATION. AND THAT CONCLUDES THE PRESENTATION OF THIS ONE AS WELL. DIRECTOR, DO YOU WANT TO ADDRESS ANY PROBLEMS?

AGAIN, AS THE ADVERTISEMENT NOTED, WITHIN TOWN CENTER AND ONLY IN TOWN CENTER, WE REQUIRE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF ALL SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED DWELLINGS OUTSIDE TOWN CENTER. That is why you're seeing a particular home, not part of the subdivision. Tonight's meeting. I would note that over the course of time, this particular property has been subdivided and at one time was intended for two homes on two lots. A lot was consolidated by Mr. Stewart, the property owner, to accommodate just single family dwellings. things lindy lane is a private street so the city does not maintain it obviously manchester road is a city street which is maintained by wildwood also no it's historic route 66 so Mr. Stewart, his architect, and I think his mom and dad are here tonight. And so with that, I'll close. The only other item I would mention in closing is that we kind of wanted to get Mr. Stewart here as quickly as we could. So a few of the things we typically provide may not be part of the packet tonight, but I do think they did a good job of getting a lot of it pulled together for us so we could have a conversation. And with that, if there are any questions of Ms. Kiefer, I will be glad to answer them at this time.

I'm still trying to focus here on the orientation. Can you back up to this slide here for a moment?

The aerial map?

Yes. Well, yeah, there. I mean, if you look at this, if I may here. Across the street from the post office. OK. If this is windy, is this Manchester here? No. Is it combined? So there is a lot in between.

No, it's been combined. Oh, that's because of the combined.

Okay. And again, St. Louis County is notoriously slow at catching up with flats that are recorded.

I actually got the email like at five o'clock that they said they, it is in and I can come pick it up of course next week because they're closed Friday, but, but they, yeah, it's like in, it's combined. It's, it's in their system now. LT, like you told me, you just wanted me to get this in, even though I told you I didn't have the site plan a hundred percent, like obviously finished, but everything is good to go now. Just getting disoriented. Yeah, Manchester Road. We wanted to try to keep it further away from Manchester, I guess, and closer to the other lot that was Lindy, but it's a little bit off Manchester. That's why we put that berm.

So there's actually a fair amount of space then before you hit Manchester Road. Okay.

Yeah. How does it relate to the setback of the other two houses? Mr. Stewart?

Yeah.

If you'd like to come on up.

Sure.

Yeah.

I'd ask some questions.

So is the house going to be more forward here, like where it says 17013?

Is it going to be more forward there than the 2552?

um flock we're moving it closer down like lindy so further to the left if you're if you're looking at lindy and closer to manchester further away from manchester oh yeah that's why we put that berm in and i talked to joe about it i was trying to figure out all the uh easements for how far off and how close and whatnot we just just to give us a little shield of old manchester but a little privacy i guess further in than the house across the street or were you about lined up I think the easements were like 30, I think it was. Yeah, I think from the house, it's like not, you can't see it. It's above like the turquoise line. It's about the same distance back as that one, but further down, obviously.

Yeah, that's a whole lot.

Thank you.

My parents actually purchased a lot next to us too. So the white house to the right. So they own that. Oh, okay.

Did you know that we're going to do that? Yeah. Well, they also live like right.

They live like two houses over on the left side. They built that house a year and a half ago or whatever. That one that sits back like 200 yards. So we live nice and close. That's good.

Do you want to present or share whatever other information?

Sure. First of all, I'm Edward Stevens, the architect. And, you know, so this home is for Tyler and his wife, Alex, and they have three children. It's a 3,262 square foot, one and a half story home. It has four bedrooms, three full baths, one of them being a Jack and Jill bath, and also one half bath on the first floor. And also on the first floor, they have an office right as you walk into the foyer. On the back, we have a 21 foot by 14 foot rear patio for the family to entertain and for the kids to play. And then all across the front of the house, we have a covered porch that's eight foot deep. So we should have room for furniture. Thank you. We have a three-car garage, and the way it's arranged is a two-car side entry from Lindy and then a one-car front entry from Lindy. One of the things we try to do, even though the front of the house is facing Lindy, we try to make the right side elevation that faces Manchester more... It looked like a front elevation itself. If you could go maybe one more. So you see that on the top left there, you know, we intentionally, you know, like put a door going into the garage with a, you know, with a porch on it just to kind of give it a better appearance than a normal side elevation. And then the first floor is a nine foot ceiling height with the second floor being eight foot, and we have a nine foot concrete pour. And then going to the elevations, we're trying to have a timeless type house. So we've got a white siding, which is the fiber cement James Hardy siding, and used a combination of horizontal and shake siding. And it's Arctic white. And then the soffits, fascia, and trim boards will also be James Hardie Arctic white. And then we're planning on using white Quaker windows. And then the gutters will be pre-finished aluminum once again with the white color. The main roof is going to be the CertainTeed landmark architectural shingles. And the homeowner is still trying to decide exactly which gray they want, but they're talking about like a light gray roof single. And then we have some accents of metal roofing, like over the front porch. And that's going to be Central States metal roof gray. And then also we have the columns on the front that are 10 by 10, and that's gonna be like a composite permacast column that will be painted white. And then we have some architectural features that are like five pond material, and that also will be painted white. That's pretty much it. If anybody has any other questions.

I don't think there is a basement to it as well.

Yes, there is a basement. I do have to, you know, you have the window you can see toward the back on the left side there. And but yeah, so there's a full basement, but in great situation.

Questions or comments from anybody?

Yeah.

Thanks. Good job.

And is this similar in color to the existing house? That one that's at 17011? I would say so, yeah. I mean, it looks like it's white. Yeah, we just, yeah, we wanted to go with white this time. Yeah, that's actually a business, I think, right? It's a carpet business of some kind?

That's the one to the right. There is this, like, white, right? Just a farmhouse white. Oh, okay.

Oh, the other one's a cross-lending light.

Uh, there, there is this on old or like whatever it was an old Manchester, Manchester. There's this on the one across is like brick from Lindy from us as a brick house.

Oh, fully a map of the, uh, the one that the County has messed up.

Okay. Oops.

So the house or the building in the lower right corner of the big lot. Yeah. That's the house or that's the business?

That's the house. The lower right corner with a lot of the asphalt, that's the business. And the house to the left is theirs.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

Any other questions or comments, anybody?

So, Mr. Chair, the only comment that Ms. Keefe and I provided was that The historical pattern has had a home facing toward Manchester Road. As you know from the presentation, in this case, the home front as defined by the elevations faces Lindy Lane. Steve and I talked today, if you go across the street, we've accommodated the sides facing Manchester Road, just due to the need to make the setbacks work because like East Avenue and Manchester Road, Center Avenue and Manchester Road, in this case, they have two front yards because of the double frontage. So that's the most restrictive setback. I do think that the architect and the owners have done a good job of making the front, or excuse me, the side, or the two-car garages look like a front. If you're inclined to make a motion tonight to approve, we'd like to be able to accommodate a landscaping component, at least in front of the garage doors facing Manchester Road, so as to do the best we can to screen it a little bit more.

Yeah, that's what I thought I heard.

Is there a burn? Yes, but we're not sure what the plantings are. Do you want more detail on it? Yep. Got it.

And I haven't quite missed a stupid question. Would it make any sense to mirror image the plan and rotate so that the garage side is actually on windy where you're coming in off the street and the front side is facing out towards Manchester?

I think for privacy, I'd rather be on windy.

Yeah.

Or can I like walk up here? Yeah, please. Sorry. I know it's like weird. So this is like, HAB-Masyn Moyer- Our mindset and what else you have like 30 setbacks like 30 we want to put it like right here, you know i'm saying. HAB-Masyn Moyer- What the driveway going right to hear the berm somewhere, you know the easement like down here and this that's so our backyard be like right here a little bit of a side yard, obviously, and that's that's the kind of like look we're going for I know it's a little weird because the lots aren't combined it yet on here but.

HAB-Masyn Moyer- I understand that and.

When you turn the house, it kind of, yeah, that's what I was.

It kind of disrespects the frontage of the street of Manchester.

I think it's far enough back and got the same condition across the street. I don't think it's fair to not give them the same accommodation.

Just offering a suggestion.

Yes. And some of the setback with Altia, the lady there, like suggested we put that door on the side of that garage to kind of what actually it helped the easement, she said, to make it a little larger to go back further. So that's why we put that door on there. And then, like he said, putting that overhang, it kind of makes it look, you know, more like a front. Yeah. You look like a front door. And I'm just, and just being like a dad, obviously my kids at the front being on the lesser busy road. I mean, I understand what we're bought, what we bought. I get that, but it just makes it a little safer. I think just, you know, kids are, but yeah.

And the space to the right of the green line, is that some other lot? That's my parents' backyard.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's the babysitter.

Yeah. Yeah.

So. Mr. Ritter, would it make your concerns, would it lessen your concerns if the door, the double doors were split? So there are two doors with a pillar or some type of split.

Not particularly. I think I've done a nice job with the elevations. I was just thinking that if it were my lot, I'd want to pay respect to Manchester Road with the front of the house and have the side of the house and the access for vehicles off the quieter road. Near of taste. That's all it is.

And the The approaches we've used is to split the doors so they're 10 and 10 column between. And also, we've done some kind of over the garage doors so that there's shade lines. And we have done this in the past. We've used the garden wall. 32-inch garden wall along that parallel area by the garage door to kind of break that up with even more than the landscaping. And then finally say, it's just being improved. So those are the options that are out there. I don't know if any of them improve the certainly. That was an issue we identified is that Manchester Road is the primary street for the city, and Lindy Lane, obviously, is the secondary street.

So will the address have a Manchester Road address or a Lindy? Lindy. It'll have a Lindy address.

My wife thinks it's more cute. That's why.

Just kind of as a side note to that, a guy needs to know where to go. Side note to all of that, we were down in Eureka Springs, I think it was last year or whatever, and I've never been to Eureka Springs. The roads go every which way.

There are some houses that have three addresses.

And they're up and down. And, you know, it's very, it's a very hilly area. And it's just, we just thought that was an interesting piece of trivia that you can have a house with three different addresses.

Oh, yeah.

A drunk male goes to one address and...

So, Mr. Chair, just can I ask a couple of questions? First of all, are the ridge fence, are you having like cable fence or ridge fence? And then just as an advisory comment, we require all penetrations in the roof, stacks, vents, those things to be painted the same colors. Okay. And blend away. Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

So what you're looking for is a preliminary approval, but with some suggestions from the board. Is that what I'm understanding?

It's really your call. You seem to be pretty satisfied with the design. The only caveat we have is, as Keith and I, is having that authority to review the landscape and approve based upon the board's authorization. And then again, if there's something you all want relative to that Manchester Road frontage,

So essentially final approval, but with the landscaping issue, part of that, okay.

Make a motion to approve with an approval on the landscape at sign off.

Okay, so motion to be made. Is there a second? Second. Mr. Carson, second. Is there any discussion? All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Oh, I thought you were asking a question. Those opposed, say no. The ayes have it. You have your approval, and it works with FITTY AND THOSE DETAILS.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

THANKS FOR SUPPORTING US. YEAH, I APPRECIATE IT.

AND I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY OTHER ITEMS UNLESS ANYONE HAS ANYTHING. OUR NEXT MEETING, OH, PLEASE.

I THINK MR. BARNES MIRE MIGHT HAVE ANOTHER ITEM.

I'M SORRY.

GO AHEAD. THIS WILL BE MY LAST MEETING. I'LL BE MOVING. So I just want to say thank you. You want to say thanks to you? Yes, we do.

Where are you moving to? Out of town?

Not out of town. In town. I was able to purchase a lot of building a house. So we'll be out in the Rock Hill area. So thank you. I've enjoyed my time on the committee, on the board.

Just keep an eye, I'll be able to keep seeing him and he'll probably be back. Yeah. So it's not goodbye.

No, yeah, I will. I will probably be back and say we'll still be out of reserve for probably two years.

Great. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Anything else anyone has?

I have a question. So I wasn't here last time. So there was an update about the committee dissolving. When is that happening?

City Council has moved forward with the steps to dissolve the architectural review board. At the May meeting, I asked the members to keep that second Thursday of the month penciled in at least through summer. So if you don't mind, we sure could use you because we advertise for the or architectural firm. We have to get it through committee and then city council. And along the way, we have to adjust the ordinances. So you actually may be hearing a vote someday. Okay. I was scared.

Because when he said it was his last meeting, I was like, is that all right?

Well, they've got on the agenda that we could be July 9th if needed. So it's not officially the last meeting. Are we likely to? Do you know? It was July 9th, looking like too early.

We have a couple of items from Rockwood School District. I don't know. They submitted something that isn't very complete. So I'll let you, Robin, I'll let you know.

Okay. I just didn't know what to expect there. Just have to kind of look ahead as we're looking at summer schedules.

We'll let you know as soon as we can.

Thank you. Anyone else have anything? I want you to adjourn. It's an order. Mr. Price's move, we'll give Mr. Barlow the answer. All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Those opposed, nay. The ayes have it. We are adjourned. Thank you all.