Planning & Zoning - Regular Meeting

Bye.

what's up us how are you we're all right jerry how you doing i'm good hello sir still on the right side of the earth yep

everybody making it tonight sir as far as i know i think it's wiggins hashtag one with a capital w

We really need the chairman to show up.

Yeah.

Yeah. Speak of the devil. What's happening?

It's not here.

Hello, sir.

Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello.

Hello.

Hello.

Yeah, me too. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

You're presenting a screen.

Did you get in?

Yeah. Oh, thank you. No, I wouldn't buy it.

I'd like one, but I don't want to use it. It's expensive. Yeah. You know what my craft was? Yeah, I made that into a patch. That's how it starts, though, isn't it? After I, like, rip some, you know, weave them. You can have that, you know. Yeah. Change that. It's really easy. Yeah, I kind of put it in place. And they can wear it out to a conference. You know, it's an invention in conference. You know, it depends on, you know, But I should be able to do that. We have to find a way to join this. We have to. We have to. We have to. We have to. We have to. We have to. We have to.

We have to. We have to.

Did you guide somebody and then install it? Not supposed to. If you weren't inspecting it, or no? Yeah, I wasn't inspecting it. Right. But I do because it makes my job easier. If I help the homeowner out a little bit. Thank you. Yeah.

Got to put up a shower in here. I put an offering on the church very much. You know, I'm a 19th grade student.

My house, three residents, but I have to put a shower in for safety standards. Yeah. So I got to get a protection. So I just did. Yeah. That would be a plumbing program, man. Thank you.

She said I have to go through community core, but I tried getting on there and you actually leave it purchased with software. Do you have community core? I don't know. I was wondering if I could get that funded through the town.

You can get the building and then the funding would be on DORA. On DORA? Yeah, I'll check out DORA. We have DPO. DPO. Division of Professional Innovation. Ed.com. Actually, I think you're right.

And I'm sure I can get, like, other on this, right? Let the phone be there. Yes, and be there. What, like, a change in use there be there? No, no, that would have to go through here. Don't talk about it yet. Yeah, probably have to go to the board of justice and then. I don't know she she said she didn't think it would have to be important, but we put we put it under contract and we put a 68 on it, so I should give you plenty of time to get it done, you know so change the. Basically, changing occupancy oh yeah yeah changing over my church to covenantly to. Try to zoom.

On the residential you need to. The kitchen, kitchen sink, the bathroom with the shower. That's what you need.

And then I assume you need heat, water, and electricity. Yeah, you have to have four stairs or electricity or something.

The room heaters don't count as... Yeah, space heaters, they don't.

They have to have central. Yeah. It's got a furnace, so. and so i'm one of the properties i guess i don't know i don't know if it's on my side or on the prime side of it or on the downside of it but it's from the main right it's it's weird to me you forgot that all of our all of our types of water Oh, Nicole. I can't find, like it's not giving me the option to, let me pause the recording now.

for you further assume it is kind of that much i think and i only have one because it it closed because you said we could close it out no um it's still i didn't close off the one that ended the meeting

i have this i have this small bar and the boardroom yeah people are getting further i think they realize you come here it's not fine Yeah, all of them say they go into the classroom. If you put it up. Resume recording. There it is. Okay.

Okay. Thank you. All right. Thanks, everybody.

jimmy bacao, jimmy bacao, jimmy bacao, jimmy bacao, They were doing these things. They had rage. They got a couple of folks. They got crazy. They were coming down the street. They were going in. They were going in. They were going in. Actually, the rage was going out. They were doing the police part of it. Basically, they were doing the police part of it. They had rage. It's part of the library. Thank you. Thank you. I'm seven. Don't share it. Tuesday, August 11th.

Tuesday, August 11th.

Now, I'm planning to go and finish the meetings hereby in session. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Roll call. Just in time.

Commissioner Stanfong-Partner.

Here.

Commissioner Jim Lesgrave.

Here.

Commissioner Jerry Levy.

Here.

Commissioner Jesse Borders. Here. Chairman Jeff Palmer.

Here. Thank you. Next item is a review of the . I move we approve the agenda .

I'll second.

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SECON I so move.

I second. Commissioner second.

Commissioner Stan Vaughn-Partner.

Yes.

Commissioner Jim Musgrave.

Yes.

Commissioner Jerry Avey.

Yes.

Commissioner Jesse Porters.

Yes.

Chairman Jeff Palmer.

Yes. And it's approved. Next item is land development code updates. James Forrest, Norcal PTAC, he or she yeah. James Forrest, Norcal PTAC, So we're going to go over some of the content. James Forrest, Norcal PTAC, i'll be for the development for the updates and just to allow you here do not think. James Forrest, Norcal PTAC, would expect you to read it all. James Forrest, Norcal PTAC, Some areas where you know some questions that come up and. James Forrest, Norcal PTAC, picture. So I did provide a little PowerPoint, which really we don't have to go by now to see that. This map here from the PowerPoint shows the Future Languages Plan from the comprehensive plan which we've adopted. That's kind of our guiding document for the various aspects of the code. So what we're going to cover tonight really is a use table, which goes over the permitted uses by districts. We have tapped upon some of the standards for the different districts. We're going to go over some parking standards. And then I'll just answer any questions you might have on the definitions. But the definitions would be at the full margins of the regular approach. There's a lot of stuff here that we're not talking about today. So back to that land use plan. So the land use plan, the major takeaway, and if you're willing to update, so you have areas that are James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, Blue with your industrial redness for retail commercial, but I think we might have talked about it with this group previously the central avenue corridor and main street we had as the next deuce power. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, Which meant that really kind of design and flavor typically main street and see across the West region last and I mean you could even have a business in the ground for the partner to the phone. That's kind of a character we're trying to promote out of the comprehensive plan on Main Street and eventually along Central Avenue going to the back. Right? Yeah. So that informs the zoning categories that are introduced here. So just to cut up a change, we really haven't changed the zoning categories, but we're doing the update here. We don't like, I tend to think that most towns are like this. You don't want to totally upend the names of all the zones. Stonie Cooper- We're having to attend to, we have er you already got that our our our one our shoes, now we didn't have our three and the reason why we get that the moment we go either does to add maybe a little bit of donation for our partners might go overseas. Stonie Cooper- kind of stuff like that mhpd i'm looking at the views table I see it past the. Stonie Cooper- See this. so basically your current code it does spell out what's allowed as a use in the different categories but it's like a whole lot of text um you know you read through it you can figure it out but what's what might that what is an image mobile home frame of development yeah that's in your field yeah that's in your code already uh er is Like a state residential, RR is rural residential. R1 is overall for use in the family home usually. R2 is for things like new products using townhouse. If you've added R3, which was over there, we're thinking that's kind of where your multifamily or apartments would have to be, right? MHPD, which we've talked about, we've discussed about already, that's already your code. Now, three other, classifications here that we're carrying over. CD is commercial district, ID is industrial, and CON is conservation. The one notable change, tying back to that comment about Main Street and Central Avenue, we got a BD category in the current code for business district, which was really broad in the Main Street area. We're changing that to M-U for mixed use, meaning that Stonie Cooper- It's a better description of what we've seen happen potentially our industry central and so there's a little more allowance for you as a natural, especially on second field. Stonie Cooper- And it's just a better. Stonie Cooper- Boundaries and where you have to be right now is they have the same additional areas, we do not want to include match as we have to finalize the code and so forth, but in the use of that descriptor so. Stonie Cooper- Any questions on that. So back to this table, as I was saying, the apparent code does work out in a whole lot of the text, what's used, what's allowed, what's traditionally. So it's more traditional, or it's more conventionally based on how it's just kind of taken. So there's a plus and minus to that. But the plus is that it's not page upon page in this text. And you can actually just go look at the new sheet one James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, Explore right residential retail and just look at see which as it says, now, if you are looking to see what kind of deal with our one or two that doesn't even have to kind of. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, What table table to kind of look down and see where things are. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, So we have permitted as a. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, conditional. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, See maybe a star on some of these keys, meaning that. John Gerstle, Now, if one has some new specific standards so for example. John Gerstle, Under single dwelling detached or single family traditional. John Gerstle, We put a P star on there for him you, for example, that restriction may be that it's not allowed on mainstream between your third street and in central, for example, there might not be about central. Bruce Bunnick, Norcal PTAC, he or she, why isn't the actual street of these districts may include areas of walkers so often so. Bruce Bunnick, Norcal PTAC, walk to your side of fame, so you know single family might be a lot of extra you know once you're not right, I mean so. Bruce Bunnick, Norcal PTAC, So. Bruce Bunnick, Norcal PTAC, there's things like that same thing with like two plus. Bruce Bunnick, Norcal PTAC, Now mobile homes, you'll have some new specific stuff that is probably not vocationally oriented, they might be more design oriented. We've included in here, we actually, in a mobile home, we add probably manufactured homes. So mobile homes and manufactured homes are kind of the same thing. The definition, based upon federal regulations, is dependent on the availability. I can send this to Kellogg. And we also, I think, will add modular. We don't have to add a movie scale. Modular is really a description of construction. Not about the actual constant. So relevant in theory, any residential structure could be modulated with that. You have to modulate it as to be done on international . Right. Right. It's like . So we have tiny homes with a peace scholar thinking that he should add some special standards for those, but . So tiny homes are allowed it's straight residential zones here we could allow them in you perhaps but it happens at this point uh the r3 as i mentioned kind of carries the same thing with r2 or a multi we've moved multi-family departments it's actually being familiar with r3 but it's not specifically r2 currently r2 is what includes apartments so if you know if you all think we should just have our number two we didn't John Gerstle, forget about your tree, but it seems to make sense to break. John Gerstle, We have one more good work is. John Gerstle, We have a shop downstairs. John Gerstle, Well, you know the. John Gerstle, relationship with Brian. John Gerstle, You could allow that additional districts, but just to be conservative right now it's only about an empty. John Gerstle, area. John Gerstle, Accessory dwelling us that's an area that's going to be some additional guidance so we're talking about accessibility, like the current curve talks about accessibility building but that's not the second assessment. John Gerstle, So that's what we're doing here as. John Gerstle, We see here, we have this committed with some special standards really across all the different districts and so think about it. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, A lot of homes may not have the room off for that. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, But it's becoming more common for communities to allow those. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, So. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, There's some uses here of group homes. There's a state regulation that says you have to allow those in every district out there, so it's like these are across the board. home occupations that you may want to navigate, but for you specifically, senior design. You get really in the weeds on that, but we're talking like, it gets to discussions like, hey, I work for a plumbing company. Actually, we want people to be able to have small college industries, but not have stuff that creates extra costs. For example, if you do limits on network employees, I haven't had issues. But they could pop up. They could, yeah. Okay, I'll skip ahead. And I'm just going to finish any point, just like James had a question. All right. Most of these would be off from the next page. The page we have now is pretty straightforward. Schools or public schools are allowed in almost every district, except for industrial. For example, your public schools are generally allowed across the board. We do have child care broken out, but it's small in average. I will note here, I don't believe you're having any violences or threats for medical and medicine centers. You probably have a talent for those things.

Probably not.

That means like fruit. Or pop shops. Or pop shops. So I think what we would do is have those in the use table and they would just be people. Now, the natural medicine healing center, that probably should be blank as well. Let's see here. Yeah, a lot of the stuff's fairly straightforward. There's more fine-grained list of uses here compared to the current stuff, at least in the kinds of major categories. Now, in the retail area, I did know that, like, the current drug list, like, a whole bunch of different stuff that can probably just be resolved in the agenda. So there's kind of things to. So under page five, sexually oriented business, I want to double check. I think there's actually a regulation saying you have to agree somehow in the challenge. I think there's actually a part piece to divide that. I'm wrongful.

It's my strip club. It's their club. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't think there's a story. You've got a band.

But do they ban all sexually oriented businesses is the question.

Well, it is that it's a C for conditional. Okay. They still have to come before you were through. Well, of course, they probably said, yeah, you know. So as I see it, it's just allowing them Some guy can't say, well, this seems discriminatory, essentially. Well, we go out here, we face this. We can still . I think as you look through it, or as the town staff looks through it, that the industrial category does allow some commercial uses. It could maybe allow more. That's right, sir. They are general retail. Maybe that should be a P within industrial area. That's something to think about. Office general may be permitted within industrial area. Motel or motel, maybe you want to add that as a P or A to C within industrial area. So, for example, if you're in industrial area, there's the interstate and somebody shows up, what happens? Right, you're then next to the industrial area pocket that they've seen with these. out there right here so there's a few things you might want to have there um there's a few other items that i'll take out maybe the facility will take out sawmill and logging actually put them out kind of big free hunting test um i'm going to see the rest of these uses are pretty straightforward i mean it's keeping the manufacturing industrial stuff in the iv category cb is kind of where your additional c1 this general retail commercial category is. Now, back to the residential part. So I did notice that CD in your current zoning allows for, I believe it carries over, R1 used to be . But they're not . So I guess one question for you all is whether you want to allow residential at least condos or town with their apartments within cv cv it's probably going to be more you know out by the interstate right you could allow that as at least a conditional when we submit to be brought in and say a pledge into the act any thoughts on that it's not unusual it's similar to our mixed use that we've got it wherever it's 81 correct residentially Any questions on this use table? Pretty exhaustive list. Thank you. I was looking at the chemical storage and waste operations or storage or something.

Stapp, Your industrial condition.

Stapp, USA.

Stapp, That's page six.

Stapp, Yeah. Stapp, I think that part of the condition. Yeah. Stapp, Probably the same thing with a small company. Stapp, Yeah, even though they would watch it and be able to hide it.

they're complaining about the cost of frag places that are from . Right.

Yeah, that's a good idea.

Yeah, is there anything else you've seen here, perhaps? He probably doesn't have any, but he thinks you're traditional. It's something we're thinking about. Most of the stuff, heavy industrial, light industrial, mining and mineral extraction. Yeah. We're worried about that. Diana brought up a topic that has circulated these days. Not been in shows in the past, but they want you to be proud they're implementing here. That would be in Davidson. We actually did not. Well, not permitted at all within 50 miles. So we don't have water for it.

That's what I was going to say. Well, then we got to put it in the table or something. Yeah.

And go away.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think they're discussing it, but I have to know that there's a plan discussing for or against just the option. All right. Yeah, they're smart. I say no. I say put it in the river. They only do. They can say they're walking. hard compacts and such but i remember why they didn't do it the compact in 1800 just got it because we promised them an x amount of them but you should have never done that there's a lot of people being held up i think they're probably a little bit more water back then do you even so you want water get your own yeah yeah okay well now i'll turn to page eight and let's see some stuff that warren has seen that i'm going to This group has seen the right thing.

I don't remember.

I think we saw it last time we talked to us on the video conference, or at least some of it. I don't know if it's been amended because we studied it.

That's good to know.

Yeah.

Right. So basically, the lot area sizes came down for different categories here to allow more diversity between housing types and sizes to make room for the computer to provide the same thing with growing spaces. Stonie Cooper- And that's in place. Stonie Cooper- A little bit of somebody to me. Stonie Cooper- lot areas. Stonie Cooper- Maximum water is not having ran. Stonie Cooper- By design that. Stonie Cooper- landscape open space. Stonie Cooper- The same. Stonie Cooper- speed. Okay, and we have some on page nine that mention the standards. So in the MU district, that's the district on main, the residential lot size John Gerstle, is 15 minutes, but it's like a lot of products or something. John Gerstle, So for the non residential land for minimum size is two hours birthday just sort of allow slicing based on the parts of the zero. John Gerstle, Not changing the building ties, one important thing is that have zero setbacks. John Gerstle, On. John Gerstle, And central Lebanon, so in the buildings up on the side, but you. I mean, you could allow up to 10 foot setbacks on that on the street. If you're out here, the 50% of the setback area is used for an outdoor dining room, which I usually sit here at a patio. So the minimum rear setback is 10 feet, which I think is necessary, you know, in a hospital utility. So the rehearsal district, James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, same thing that it's a lot of size for thieves but non residential that's not more option with the highway 5000 per feet with the bigger which makes sense. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, And then, with your parcel be 30 feet, no change in the value of stories became so for industrial right now in the red said yes at 14,000 square foot in my area, which is. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, The map of this neighborhood. This reduces the count to 80,000 square feet to allow for a little more subdividing of industrial subdivisions. The block width can be reduced from 125 to 50, and the other dimension standards for industrial can probably stay the same. So on streets and sidewalks, right now it requires four feet width, then move that to five feet. The block length, so for intersection to intersection, not exceeding 600 in the residential area, and the current standard is 30. So some additional standards toward an excuse district, which was the ministries, basically a common record downtown. So windows taking up 50% of the front facade of buildings, and basically requiring folks to include variations of colors or volumes or some of the architectural features you see on the screen. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, he's wearing up there a little interesting. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, And we can fine tune this or. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, move or whatever the law is to avoid just like calling our party houses, having every fourth home and run up on street racing player at a different model with different vendor replacement. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, So to avoid it for the. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, street. The width of garages would not exceed 50% of its total range, so this would try to be avoiding, say, a duplex with two-car garages and a little-time window off the side. So basically, you've got to have a street-wide space. That's something to think about. I mean, moving away from that would improve the appearance, but some of you may say, well, that's going to hurt. I believe it's better than .

It looks fancy.

It does look fancy. Similarly, drives do not protrude more than from a house. So that would kind of keep, that would avoid that situation I described to you verbally. So two, two, two . The length of attached residential units, including town-made or duplexes, would not exceed 200 feet. So that would, couldn't get more than maybe a six-pack. You don't want 10 packs. But 12 packs. Only 12 packs a year. The length of multifamily apartment buildings would not exceed 400 feet, which is not quite a lot. It's still pretty choppy there.

Mm-hmm.

Stonie Cooper, Norcal PTACC, And lots of that one like that yeah. Stonie Cooper, Norcal PTACC, The front facade shall face the higher priority streets adjacent to a person so, for example, your building has a for general speed for function basic that. Stonie Cooper, Norcal PTACC, goes inside street. Stonie Cooper, Norcal PTACC, Like about that service parking facilities shall be located side of the primary building and so you're. whether it's family dollar or dollar. Family dollar. Family dollar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So actually that's, you actually have the park side on that. It's in front of the building, but it's not like you have the park, there's the road, parking, and then the building back behind. Right. You have it to the side. So that's really the difference. Yeah. Stonie Cooper- Like walls, but not exceed should not exceed the primary street so he's trying to avoid some people like. Stonie Cooper- And then, though he should include to the following features can be used on in different colors and different materials. Stonie Cooper- So I have to ask the question, how much do people in this town think about. Stonie Cooper- materials and other materials that are used as done. Bruce Bunnick, Jr.: You like what the others have a traditionally country, a lot of times to say well no metal one no. Bruce Bunnick, Jr.: 10 metal things like that, but there's some towns are like what's working and cute man we like that so there's different standards, you can do it a lot of. Bruce Bunnick, Jr.: me suburban areas that would be like we are doing a lot of different the city. like that you know so you get a lot of the metal exhaust and stuff like that are there any materials that should be you don't have to be discouraged i can't think of anything the american used to be a you think about an architecture built this country 200 years and then we've done the development we need to pour down all of our holy beautiful buildings when we put up family dollars yeah i'm sorry but they all look the same and all metal buildings and yeah there's no design to the architecture we tried yeah it's just right it's just the metal building with like metal on the back side right you can do it in the orchard front but it's still a metal building yeah it doesn't look like a serious home now yeah yeah that's not like what we used to do when it's time to build right now we just want to get him up as fast as possible as cheap as possible sticking stone man yeah so there's I would like to say all buildings have to be put some thought into it.

You generate that person that wants to make a nice main street with some art.

As you can kind of tell from the direction of the form of her language is basically trying to allow for like, require a very close around yeah and hopefully even if they do build a metal building with the the additions of awnings or canopies or exterior colors and stuff like that they can kind of break up that that steel you know what i mean i've seen a lot of natural ones that are stuck on them too you know you don't know the building but that's stuck under stone well i mean a good one is the big big johnson Stonie Cooper, Stonie Cooper, Construction. Stonie Cooper, So that's really. Stonie Cooper, The first exit. Stonie Cooper, You got to come back this one. Stonie Cooper, yeah we can kind of see it for. Stonie Cooper, You should. Stonie Cooper, You really. Stonie Cooper, Look right. Stonie Cooper, Thank you. So the landscaping code, I did hear that this group didn't want to get too heavy-handed with landscaping in terms of xeriscaping and stuff like that. So they were encouraged. Now, these rigs are still more than you've got on it, by the fair amount. That's required of landscape plans. So there's more to have for that, at least. So there's some stuff we've talked about. So on page 12, print it out and validate it to see if it's high-stakes. All distinct landscape areas, number one, shall be designed with a minimum of 50% coverage with living plant material on full distribution. So conversely, 50% could be wood, life, or life. Something like that. Do you want us to come back and show you where your neighbors are with that?

That's kind of what I was wondering. Because I noticed that you did like, you know, there was a few spots that was highlighted here about like how much we should do and how much like for residential stuff we should do. And I was wondering what around

you can bring it back. 50% is not uncommon, but I think we can provide that to you. There we go. Now, number four. So water conservation zero statement. The town encourages the use of water-conserving material in times of need. No water is used in native plants in addition to existing plants. The town does not encourage the paving of areas on site, not required for walkways, planning, and fighting against the use of artificial plants. So. heard. These are words like you've heard. As a person. But that's just I got passive. Target. And. Stonie Cooper, Stonie Cooper, City of Stony Brook, City of Stony Brook. Stonie Cooper, City of Stony Brook. Stonie Cooper, City of Stony Brook. Stonie Cooper, City of Stony Brook. The first one. We should go a little higher. That's my guess, too.

Not more grass, but like me, I want to see if I can always attach it.

Yeah, kind of the wood and all the water. Obviously, if it's going to face the wind, it's good. But I worry that we might have to do it with some of this white brattle. The problem in Wiggins is every few years you've got to lend your rock. Yeah, that's right. You can't be like anybody else and just stop water and start buying it. That's what I'm thinking. That's what people are thinking. I may not. I guess in theory, if it's brought out, it comes back when it starts to get wet again, but I'm not so sure. Some of my grasses are getting dirt. Some of the things are getting dirt. Right. They want grass. That's right. We encourage more of your natural grass. I kind of personally wonder, you know, the xeriscafian is good, but maybe you could go to it. and other fields as well should be able to get a little bit more grass growing.

Yeah.

Because, you know, I'm just, I'm like, xeriscaping does work fine. Yeah. But if there's grass varieties that could survive, they're about as good. So it's good. Yeah. Maybe a little bit of buffalo, but that's a little bit of grass. Stonie Cooper- What grass. Stonie Cooper- You might want to have mentioned.

Stonie Cooper- Here. Stonie Cooper- In there.

Stonie Cooper- yeah. Stonie Cooper- Maybe five steps earlier there's places like a door where flat out to your development, you can buy a venture. Stonie Cooper- out of. Stonie Cooper- That.

No, I'd still like some green and down. You know, I still like the trees and I still like grass. I like it when they go by somebody's house and they have a nice yard and they take really good care of it. You know what I mean? Make the spot for the grass.

You know, the white is cool. Or even turf. I mean, it's perfect. Yeah, what do you think about... You want to do it all the time. I mean, but that guy would be the one you're going to have to get on the same pitch. Yeah. If you haven't agreed. Well, yeah. What if you have artificial like that? It's like gratifying.

Yeah. Yeah.

Fun things to look forward to. Yeah. Okay. So I'm not going to give you all that detail. If you want to have us come back to you. But the page 14, I did think of trees. Right now. Why not have a few? I agree. Two in front. I don't think it's that. I don't think it's that. I don't think it's that. I don't think it's that. I don't think it's that. I don't think it's that. I don't think it's that.

I don't think it's that.

yeah. yeah. wood mulch. Maybe that should be. Really, I wouldn't be. Okay. What. would be like.

Just a bad domain name.

Yes, yeah, I remember the place of every two years.

Yeah.

Yeah, we don't know why we were born. We just come. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know, rest of our language about landscape planned. I think you tell so it's a little more apt for what they have to submit and we do so. Now, we don't have it here, I believe. Some towns say, actually, you've got to buy a license, like the project tax. We don't have that. I'm not sure we know what's the good idea. Well, for residential, you might be able to speak. Now, commercial, maybe you could do it. But usually, our commercial plan, you've got to experience it. Well, Stephen Russell, Norcal PTACC, he's really larger more professional. Stephen Russell, Norcal PTACC, What is it for me. Stephen Russell, Norcal PTACC, To do on one or two homes. Stephen Russell, Norcal PTACC, Okay, so we'll do a little more comparative research for some of the stuff but it sounds like any dinner over the action for the landscape selection. Stephen Russell, Norcal PTACC, A lot of parking there. Stonie Cooper, Norcal PTACC, So a lot of that is really straightforward. Stonie Cooper, Norcal PTACC, there's some things that you can help me out if you bring that up into the steps and so. Stonie Cooper, Norcal PTACC, On page 19 I made notes here off street parking location statements off street and the top three parking lot of parking areas for the study or fear within 200 feet of the primary. Stonie Cooper, Norcal PTACC, primary right. meaning, you know, if you have a department complex, you can't, you don't want the parking to be two blocks down the street. We have seen those things, not in residential uses, except it could be within six, so that's like a big city block and stuff. I think what we're trying to get away from is requiring people with, like, for example, in the downtown area, you know, or in New Bratton, that have all parking I usually of course, it's more difficult to get somebody else's satellite. John Gerstle, outside of the next use district, no more than 7% of the total off street parking should be located between the brush. John Gerstle, Basically, isn't speak. John Gerstle, Actually, that that must be kind of simple and stuff. John Gerstle, Inside. John Gerstle, page 21 we are. Right now, accessible parking spaces. I mean, it's pretty standard stuff here. We've already met. We met already.

I think they have standard, you know, like, you know.

We're going to have to. don't have the idea to deal with it. So it's actually inside the building, but I'm going to go through all the accessibility of color. So I'd like to be able to do it like this, or it should be pretty good.

People are easy for people to look at.

Right. Instead of skimming through a bunch of 80 days back and forth.

Yeah, right. So a few things to point out here. On page 22, there's general maximum requirement. This is trying to keep people from filling in the parking lot. It's probably a way more expensive than good for the character. We're saying basically parking shouldn't exceed 125% of the minimum requirements. So obviously they're going to fill that and go over, right? They're trying to, you know, the developers, generally, they don't have to do more parking, but this is trying to keep, for example, a box store coming in and saying, well, we want double demand. I just need more of their parking lot. That's not your return. Sometimes get really nitpicky about maximums. This is what a general provision would seem to be worth taking care of. And then you can add some parking requirements, parking regulations for any new spaces.

So when I was reading this before, it makes it seem like any new builds or any major renovations that we do, we have to have accommodations for EV.

That's a hard one to get to, yeah.

I think it says it right here. It's number nine.

on page 22. all right well i guess we'll take that up i mean like i i get people are like you know making the accommodation if they want to but yeah we're acquiring it i don't think they should do that right so you want to have to have this line direction for this kind of design loading spaces until the future this is just the very different expression of the Stacking requirements. We have some stuff up here on You mentioned the standards for the parking spaces and so forth. And then on page 26, you have the parts and requirements. And frankly, most of your requirements weren't, you know, they weren't that effective, you know. Generally, retailers, you know, the requirements for retail for a general retail pass, it was like five spaces for 80,000 square feet. So yours would actually match that file. There's a loop. If you want, we can do a compare and contrast between what we've got right now and what this is. If you'd like, or if you'd like to view it and see if it makes sense, maybe if you have it. Now, there are a number of spots on here where it says parking study, some codes, and get it and see what it, what the golf is. Three spots, three phone calls, blah, blah, blah. Stonie Cooper- The requirement of a parking study if it seems like we're getting away from the exact same stuff that's a good default, like you guys are going to study at least a park analysis, you want to. Stonie Cooper- see what you guys. Stonie Cooper- want to have. Steve Sorenson, Norcal PTAC, he or she, where it says parking study and try to get more parking for every one of them, or is that the ones that are parking study are ones, some are injured, hardly ever injured. You're not going to get a knife cut in front of you. You're not going to get a large livestock sale back with you. You're not going to get a saturated business. You're going to get a golf course maybe once in the next four years. I don't know, Robin's got one. Steve Sorenson, Norcal PTAC, he or she, They got like five. Steve Sorenson, Norcal PTAC, he or she, With frogging? Steve Sorenson, Norcal PTAC, he or she, Oh, there's Robin. So that's a warning to it. You have a parking study. I mean, you can't. Yeah. You have. You have. It's more than a parking study. You have.

Yeah. All right. Yeah. But they know where they're going, right? Yeah. Yeah. I'd say.

Stonie Cooper, Stonie Cooper, Yes. Stonie Cooper, Oh yeah, they said that.

Stonie Cooper, yeah I mean it's gonna it's gonna be a huge thing. Stonie Cooper, So I know.

Stonie Cooper, Oh, does it really. Stonie Cooper, Not just. Stonie Cooper, um. I will say that some of this stuff, like the industrial, it's a little more broken up by per footage in terms of the spaces. Before you had this kind of all across the board requirement, at least one size fits all. So kind of broken it down a little bit. Did not penalize, doesn't matter, larger buildings. Because if you have a larger effector, it's not going to be as much of a problem if you have it in the ceiling and stuff. Let's see what else. Anybody else? All right.

So definitions, I'm not going to go through. There's a lot. I got halfway through and I was like, I'm done reading.

Well, some of these definitions really apply to other parts of the code, not even with the software. So I think the intent is to have definitions all on one spot, not definitions sprinkled, right? So you just go to one spot. And so when you get this thing finalized, also, every use table will have a corresponding definition. So you basically look at what that actually means. Some communities will see a definition where they actually use the definition and start to believe in the actual rate of patients. I think they're not going to do that. Yeah. They'll say, oh, I can picture what person blah, blah, blah, blah. They're actually fine. So, yeah, I don't really think we can go through all these one-by-ones, what that means. There's probably more here than Probably some kind of coming out. But I will note there's certain things that I earlier I mentioned the audience and things like that, like this architectural features that we have defined here. Now we can develop my dependent basically the set being kind of a portion along for the group, like for me, certainly is the rich. So that's not in my opinion. Right. just trying to look through and see if there's any body parts. So I guess we'd better add data center to the definition. Is there a single attack now on solar? Do you like solar?

Oh, solar.

Right, I think it's a big portion of the area.

I might disagree with you on that one. We don't need a massive area. We can make a watch or whatever, and keep a watch for it.

I would say, but I would now be holding it.

I'm more for residential solar.

We provide our own power. It should be cheaper for us to put solar energy. That would stop this whole thing. Stonie Cooper, Stonie Cooper, All things going down. Stonie Cooper, What you're going to get obviously not quite worked out, you know.

Stonie Cooper, No, because you're not going to get enough massive so many to generate enough electricity for all safety.

Stonie Cooper, residential box. Stonie Cooper, is better to do each individual i'm saying like for individual. Stonie Cooper, Right. Stonie Cooper, No. Stonie Cooper, Thank you. Stonie Cooper, jimmy bacao, jimmy bacao, jimmy bacao, jimmy bacao, jimmy bacao, jimmy bacao, jimmy bacao, jimmy bacao, jimmy bacao, Do some of them really have any money? Yeah. So the zoning code for some districts, again, we've tried to do the same thing, but adding a lot more districts. What do you mean? That makes huge difference. Sounds we need to do right now. We have some sign language in there, but it's pretty. Yeah, I don't know what I said. Maybe I'll feel about. Getting a little more beefed up on science. But you know, cross-linked problems. We've got a lot of signs right now. We've got a lot of signs right now. That would be all this year, there was a fight over shine. He wanted it to look nice. I think it was just personality difference. So I think we might want to have a little more people. I thought the lighting.

Light street lighting.

Well, it's a different. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, we probably have some more data there, too. We don't want a lot of light pollution in town all the time, you know.

Right. No, but we need to light up areas where people have... Where people have, yeah, definitely. Right. Let's see. The code right now does not have standards for, like, street glitz and stuff like that. yeah so basically our streets have already been very plotted and done yeah it is kind of hard to visualize a lot of stuff when it sounds like developing my speaking right there yeah you got two people parked on both sides you got Sometimes, I mean, especially at intersections, trying to turn a car. And on top of that, you have the farm that has really wide streets. Or some of the streets are wide. Are some of the streets wide? I don't know.

I wouldn't say too wide, but they do seem pretty wide. I think they're approaching too wide, I would say. Yeah, some of the streets are quite narrow.

Well, they'll come out of the street. They're great. or later oh it's rock yeah in the summer way too small are you right there yeah you could find it yeah i said the residential is i just said 50 feet in the rain you're mimicking nothing 50 feet right away or 50 foot further 50 feet we need more of a nasty event that's probably it's probably pretty close to what least the one that i'm thinking of over at the park is i think that's yeah to me i like it because that's 30 feet center that's 30 feet center and then it tends to be the end of your side for parking and you have to think i mean especially residential a lot of kids yeah run out give you a little more with more space but get too narrow streets you got the cars part of two-way traffic kids run out there's no visualization you can see the kids in the yard the streets are too wide And plus, it's just a kind of aspect. Yeah, I was going to think that too. I mean, I'm narrowly speaking, which is kind of like, yeah, if you think about it, an eight-foot parking zone, four-foot lane, four-foot lane, and an eight-foot parking. That's all it really is. The light is there. That's what it is. We're a local residential.

Yeah. But that'd be, what, 40 feet?

That'd be 40. 40 feet. That's true there. Well, I think that's true here. Yeah. You're only 60 years old. Like, if you take Old Town, we're 60 feet, 80 feet, 100 feet. You are right away. Yeah. Well, that's what our streets should be. No, the right of way, you'd be in those areas where you don't. Yeah. Yeah, Wiggins, like Main Street, is 100 foot. Well, not anymore. It's like, oops. But maybe we need to bring in some examples. Because where they put up a good inspection. You take where they put the sidewalk now on 4. It's a 35-foot street. How about where they did the third? Yeah, 4. They didn't put one up at all on both sides. And now it's like a 35-foot street. You got that way, way down. No, 4th Avenue, of course, the ballpark.

I didn't put the sidewalks close together.

I was in Denver and pretty darn well older there. Well, if you're in a residential area and you're a part of both sides and it's an area of the street, what does it mean to that area of the street if someone's pulling in from an intersection when the street plays over at night? The issue becomes if an area is dense enough, then all that parking is going to be wall-to-wall. You can't do that anymore. You can't do that anymore, or then it becomes a problem. And those curve-to-curve might be the reason.

I have a roller. I'd say there's some over in Kyle Park that are close to 30, 35. You know, like that S-turn coming in on Johnson right there, that's pretty tight there, especially where it's only going to be the parking lot corner. You know what I mean?

But it makes you slow down. It does make you slow down.

Planners like to do narrow streets, but it makes you slow down. Well, they should, but they're going to be out there, and people are going to have to keep them all the way around. It's an entirely hard period. You have to see what they do down Fifth Avenue, and it's only half a street, so that's, let me create a 40-foot street, and it's 80 miles an hour, because it does clap going down. In general, planners or designers, the general thought would be they're somewhat narrow streets, but they're not ridiculously narrow. street trees and stuff on the side psychologically they're less likely to get it kind of just it still can't leave that someone from just popping by you know you can do it right i think i lived in morgan for a few i like their street i mean curb to curb looks like it's about i would say they're but then we got the sidewalk yeah the sidewalk is actually the homeowner because your your property goes out to the curb so your responsibility is to take care of the side of the house replace the sidewalk their landscaping is rocks and all that put sidewalk to curb grass for this side i don't know i like it sounds like continue talking What do the developers say? I think developers want to do 10-foot streets with no houses. It's the goal they want, right?

Yeah.

They're all in for selling a lot. Yeah, but at the same time, they can't be selling stuff that's 10 years from now. And personally, for me, I think the alley. Got to be alley. Got to be alley. I would say. me personally yeah it should be an alley behind houses i appreciate that as well because all of our stuff well that's i guess factories like that idea especially in small towns people don't go for that because it's not in the pattern but that's the last thing here yeah i personally like valley and that's where you're mostly super is that because all your communications is in the alley street is water again if you freeze up and then people mostly have problems with their shoes You're not excavating the street. But the planners like it because then you don't have driveways all up in the street. That's where you drive back on the street. So if you want us to move in that direction, maybe, certainly. That's my personal opinion. I agree. None of this fence to fence. Everything's in the street.

I don't like the look of the electrical boxes in the front yard.

No, you get your power in the back. It's tacky. It's tacky. But you might have backyards that are a little hard.

Yeah, but, I mean, keeping alleys clean is also a good thing.

Well, I keep mine very clean. I only have to spray weed once a month.

Right.

My neighbors down the way, they don't know when we're going to go to Longmore or Naperville or anything. Sounds like a good thing. You're like, hey, buddy, you've got to do that. That's my job. Yeah. You can trash and you can send pornography. I mean, that's my trash cans back here, too. Not in the street when you go past all these and then the wind blows. Trash cans. They must be pushing more for alleys. Yeah.

I mean, encourage the use of alleys.

Well, you could strongly encourage. Strongly encourage. Or.

And that's the old town feel, I think.

Right. Right. You have to have a place for the other cats.

For the alley cats?

Yeah. You have to have a place for the alley cats. Right. Skunks. Skunks. Skunks, dragons. Because when people approach, they always feed their stray cats outside. They're going to stray cats and then feed cats outside.

Skunks like cat food, so.

Yeah, I got to wash a dog at 1030 because one side is coming in the yard and they're like, It's a little outside. More trees, more alleys. I don't really design stuff like sort of mixed use areas. Landscaping, a little more than you should do.

Lighting and silage.

Yeah, so. Stonie Cooper- Again, I totally not going off being powerful English pretty much off the top. Stonie Cooper- i'm gone versus September, so I think we'll kind of see the end of October, yes, so they stopped building on things. Stonie Cooper- Maybe general comments. Stonie Cooper- It was supposed to come to the news. Well, . Well, I guess I could send questions if you want to do that. but we see them. Send them. Yeah. Well, you definitely read a lot of stuff.

I write most of it until I got to the definitions, and then I was like, yeah, I got to page like 65, and I was like, yeah.

You read more than I thought? I mean, I thought people would be like, boy. I was the same way. The definitions. We already know most of it. Right? Yeah. That's right.

No, it's like reading a dictionary.

Yeah. And I think we'll do street sections.

Would you take the microphone with you?

I literally can't see my phone. I mean, it's 55 feet. 40 feet is too narrow, 60 feet is too long. Let's do 45, 65. We'll see. A lot of times we'll put street sections on the upper north side in the middle. Stonie Cooper, Stonie Cooper, Here it's kind of more wide open, so I think we finders along with you all on the board. Stonie Cooper, As opposed to. Stonie Cooper, The prime example, you got an 80 foot street now mainstream. Stonie Cooper, The one side is parallel. Stonie Cooper, No, so I think you can do very little inside of me what streets I tell you streets way through there. Stonie Cooper, You just lost a lot of parking. Stonie Cooper, yeah. I assume you prefer Angle. I do. Would you like Angle on Central Avenue? Because I see that. I think it's easier to pull out of Angle. I agree. And you get more parking. Yeah.

I think most of the businesses on Central have off-street anyway. Yeah.

I probably would just accept it. Personally, I would probably made sense going on to see that they don't do they don't do and that's it yeah i came from style but that's like mostly i really shouldn't yes man there isn't a state they do get open for it if the government wouldn't take the money from me because i got told from my ropes to c dot out here that over the course of almost eight years. So in eight years, he has robbed $1.5 billion out of the Eastern Grand. Well, it's going to Floyd Hill.

So all the roads out here have been robbed taxed on. He had all the roads up the mountain. There's been so much development.

Yeah, same for those wildlife crossings somehow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those six mile trails along the road up.

And the new CEDAW building. There's quite a few CEDAW outbuildings.

Why are they building a new building?

You know what I'm saying? Just like 10%. No, these are fancy, too. Very fancy. Look at the water brush. I don't know how many doors there are in that kind of thing. Oh, it's huge. All right, so we like alleys, we like trees. We like architectural variation. We like kind of stocking the equipment better, right? Yes. In the downtown, we don't have an imagery group to my show, but anyway. When I think about downtown, I think about the imagery for Comcast, which is, two-story main street usa the whole time field yeah like you see in well i mean that's something that i said anywhere from here at least you know always even small towns that are broken down yeah the old goals i mean yeah probably we go to most of the small towns out here in eastern they've kept their old buildings on their main street yeah you know we're ready to throw it out like this refurbishment or somewhere empty. Sometimes we've got to go to Slash Beach. That's kind of not doing so bad.

No.

But it's still developing.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they've got a good town board, I think. Mm-hmm. Do we deep up landscaping in the Main Street area? That is kind of good. So that would be time left for us. You know, if someday you do it, you do it. Well, I know they've caved in streaky sound for any part here. Yeah, we're doing it there. More cat track features. Sure. Going to the town board, getting ready to phase. uh mainstream you know they're talking about it i think they're still getting bids just to repay them because i get an actual engineer surveyor oh i mean i hope so no they're gonna go out and cut it down about four feet and then that's all the dirt there that's uh You can take it out of the base. Oh, they went down further than that. Kind of like when they built the new school and excavated eight feet down and then had to repack and then rebuild the school. So that'd be good instead of playing Let's see their plan.

I don't know what it is.

They're just talking.

They're getting bids for. For the road work.

So they have to have a plan.

I don't know what it is, but.

They're getting bids. They're getting bids. Thank you. Thank you. Ulster County Transportation Council Chambers. So it's been. Ulster County Transportation Council Chambers. No. Ulster County Transportation Council Chambers. Well, we're not going to obsess over a street. Ulster County Transportation Council Chambers. Yeah. Ulster County Transportation Council Chambers. I guess we'll find out what the average is.

Ulster County Transportation Council Chambers. So with lighting.

I think we talked about it earlier, dark sky.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think unless it's somewhere where, you know, people walk. Somewhat main thoroughfares, you know, like. Only sidewalks should be, should have some type of lights.

Yeah. I mean, I know when I walk, you know, when it starts getting dark, you know, can't see. Someone on the side of that road.

To me, what we got now is the RA lights. set up way high and all that but you're brian with the lamps right brought the lights down yeah facing the ground facing the ground you want to be able to give you a standard issue and put on a phone right between that limit your light pollution still safe right walking but you're not getting the don't have the mercury yeah right on signs i mean some of the stuff in science or science you'll see out there and stuff that you haven't really had to deal with You haven't got as much development, but there's science goes to get to the point where we don't want a whole bunch of stuff on top of the gas people when I want to go sign up there. Let you know, let her band like that and don't just pick up the stuff. But don't wait.

Guys, if you're laughing already.

No pulse. So we play with the bridge. So much when the dummies would be out probably. If you have a lot of things you probably have issues with, even though I have flashing lights, illumination, stuff like that. But it'd be good to give you the advice for somebody coming in at some point. Yeah, especially with the multi multi multi-use or whatever if you have residential involved with you got sign slashing all right along yeah that's a thought yeah so a question about accessories so if you have more alleys it's a heck of a lot easier to do about this but there are some towns that have said okay you could do it 80 years even if you have like a house with a backyard that's changing things down because you'd have a way to get to the city on the side. You feel like it has to do access by the driveway or driveway, like the traditional off an alleyway, or you know what they're going to have. They would have to be more open to whatever, since we have areas that don't have towers. Sometimes I think they're looking at regs where in theory you could turn your basement into a theater.

yeah our yeah our code allows for that because they can be detached or attached yeah as long as they have our separate there's no space

I think that's going to kind of like fire stuff like that. They have to have multiple aggressive splinters. They're domiciled. You know what I mean?

Sure. Yeah. Well, you know, people like, when I was a grad, my parents, we lived in a college town and we had a basement for that kitchen, but there was no x-ray window. So we rented out for grass. Yeah. I'm a GI.

You can get away with it then.

You can probably get away with it now.

People are paying attention. Okay. That's my niece.

In general, the zoning regs, a lot of stuff in the past we'd say, who's going to go around and be like, who's better to who? DNA fits.

What's that?

DNA tests.

Any other thoughts you have recently?

Other comments, where do you see me on? Yeah, I think so too. Keep on pushing through. And next time, I think, Like I mentioned the party or not graphics that we've been talking about a sense that you guys. Like it streets. You know this code it's not like the graphical exercise, but it does help to have some pictures in there. yeah. So last year, people bring comparisons chances you're also trying to make sure the. One thing that you guys brought a reference back. I can't think I tend to think of more maybe going too far in some ways, but it was a sweet spot. I believe right now I have an Italian almost 18 months old. So I'm keeping one little area of our backyard. The rest I'm letting die, but I'm watering that with the sleepers anyway. Well, he's got to have someplace to die. Yeah. And what percentage of my yard is that as a total? Probably 20. Yeah. see that's what i was thinking like 15 20 of landscape areas you know i know you said like 50 and everything like you know i kind of felt like it was high but at the same time i don't know if it's too bad you know to me it's no good well i think that's the question to talk about next time as well like what we talked about like straight up here getting connected bluegrass you know having more than 30 percent of that does kind of make sense but it's like native grasses I thought you'd be talking about. She's a grass. Most of my backyard. Yeah, most and a lot of it is just gradually filled in. That was it. Is it not as green as like a bluebird? It's not as green. Is it not? A little white.

Yeah, it's it. But if you don't have to mark it.

And I ordered a couple of times a week. And it stayed green. Yeah. It's up there. It's up there. It's up there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, as soon as they got moisture, you could watch it go and clean it up with it, right? There's a bit of mud you can, you know, you can use it. Use the ladder, you know, to get it back there faster. You know, you have nothing to do. You know, it's perfect. You know, it is, you know. You know, it's perfect. You know, it's perfect. You know, it's perfect. You know, it's perfect. Well, no, but you left it to naturally. No, you don't have to call her more than that. How about me? Okay. Anything else for now? I can't think of anything. Well, thanks for coming tonight. We were going to see you. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, I was still out in Julesburg when you were here. Yeah, it's on the way home, but a few inspections after. Sorry, I thought I was going to be in the night for the last year. You might watch it. Probably, yeah. Okay, Terrence, back to you. Yeah, okay. Do you have anything on your calendar for the PC next month?

Not that I know of.

Because everything was basically rates to taxes. Yes. Your property tax?

I think that should stop the way they do it now.

Definitely. Water rates are not an issue. That's why credit's doing water. Before Morgan's expanding the brush, we've got quite a bit of things in the works. We get further that way. Sounds like Morgan has plenty of water. We've got 15. Brush has done that with plenty of water, but we have to go with tax rates. Make sure you buy water from Morgan. Well, I was mayor when we talked about it, but we've never really worked with this. More so than following.

That's a better quality water than 80 pounds of it.

Well, it's a cardio pattern and they're saying stuff like that. Yeah. Well, thank you. Times 8.31. Thank you, County Commissioners. And yeah, I think it's way easier. Lower the property tax. So you would see the first thing we have, we would see property tax going back down there. Definitely. residential it's 32 minutes