Public Works Committee - Regular Meeting

Monday just do I have to say that again? No. Okay, good. Okay, first of all, review and approve the minutes. I read them because I was not here last time. Um, a lot of shenanigans. Yeah, I was going to say you guys were kind of naughty or I wasn't here. Um, anyone have anything that they'd want to change? Any comments? I move to approve. Okay, have a second. Second. All in favor? I abstain obviously. Um, okay. Moving on to number three. Theformational recap of the August 9th through 10th, 2025 1,000-year storm.

Yes. So, I will kick things off with this one, but we have developed a PowerPoint presentation uh based on the request of the public works committee and village board. What would be nice is to just evaluate what happened in August 9th and 10th since it was obviously a mad scramble not only for the village of Whitefish Bay but all southeastern Wisconsin given that we had such a large scale storm event and there was a lot of moving parts. Now that we got to take a deep breath and deescalate. It's always good to have lessons learned of how DPW the village as a whole managed this event and look for feedback or any open-ended questions. So, as we go through our PowerPoint presentation, I also uh invited a couple guests with us. Carrie Roer from MMSD is here to explain more about the MMSD side of the system and to give an overview of the storm from their perspective, as well as Mustafa Amir, our village engineer. He has chosen to give a couple kind words as well.

Kind. Are you letting CJ off the hook this time? CJ is off the hook for this part, but he is next on the agenda to be talking about traffic synchroniz in the third row. Yes. And Maxine Miller. So, she will be here back there. That was one of her first things in her first few months uh as staff engineer that she got to experience a thousand-year storm too. We like to make things fun around here.

Yes. It's always fascinating. So, with that, we can go through the agenda. And so again, we felt like from we wanted to go from high level with MMSD and start to narrow in our focus with villageled, how we internally manage the storm event. Uh recap as far as uh over two decades of solutions that we've done throughout the years just for any new committee members or people that don't have the historic perspective on how the village has invested in storm and sanitary um to help mitigate these types of uh events. as well as continuous process improvements. And that's important to go over because we are never done as far as managing aging infrastructure and looking for room for improvement to help alleviate uh either basement backups or storm events. So, with that, I think we're going to kick things right off to MMSD. So, Carrie, the floor is yours. I I have to interject for just a second in the in the thought that um the last time we had a 500 or 800year storm event, this room would have been full and there would have been, you know, standing room only with the number of people. So obviously we did something pretty spectacular in the last 15 years to mitigate our storm. Sorry.

That's okay. Thank you very much. Um so good evening. My name is Carrie Roer and I serve as conveyance program manager uh at MMSD. I began my career in 2002 working as a consultant and working primarily on district conveyance projects and I joined MMSD in 2011. Uh the Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewage District is a regional government agency responsible for water reclamation and flood management of area waterways. The district operates a conveyance system that transports transports waste water from local municipal systems to water reclamation facilities for treatment. In addition, MMSD manages a storage system which provides critical relief to the conveyance system during what other weather events. Um, MMSD operates two water reclamation facilities known as Jones Island and Southshore where water is treated. Underground pipes carry waste water from homes and businesses to the water reclamation facilities. Across the service area, municipalities and property owners maintain more than 6,000 miles of sewer pipes, while MMSD owns about 300. The following slides will show how water travels through these systems under different conditions. In addition to the 300 miles of sewers, MMSD operates an inline storage system commonly known as the deep tunnel. The system provides 432 million gallons of storage. The deep tunnel itself is 25 mi long with diameters ranging from 17 to 32 feet. MMSD also manages the northwestside remote storage system constructed in 2006 which adds another 88 million gallons of storage. Together the two systems provide approximately 520 million gallons of storage capacity. Um so let's start looking at the diagram to understand how the system works under

dry weather conditions. On the left side of the diagram, we have the separated sewer area. White Fish Bay is a separated sewer area. Here, municipal sewers collect waste water from private laterals from homes and businesses. This flow is then discharged into the MMSD owned sewers. Thank you. Oh, that's great. So, yeah, I'm talking about this side here. Um, so the MMSD own sewers are called Metropolitan Interceptor sewers or MIS. So if I say MIS, I'm kind of talking about this guy here. Um, now moving to the center of the diagram, we see the combined sewer area. Uh, in our area, Milwauke parts of Milwaukee and Shorewood have areas with combined sewers. Combined sewers handle both waste water from homes and businesses as well as storm storm water during rain events. Um, combine combined flows are also directed to the MIS. The metropolitan interceptor sewers which are typically deeper than municipal sewers convey all the collected flow whether from the separate or combined area uh to water reclamation facilities. So let's talk about what happens during wet weather condition when rain or snow melt starts to impact the sewer system. Um, first in the separated sewer area, storm sewers handle runoff and discharge it into area waterways. At the same time, sanitary sewers continue to carry waste water to the MIS. Sanitary sewers also take on storm water through infiltration and inflow. Now, in the combined sewer area, things work a little differently. Here both wastewater and storm water runoff are collected together into one sewer which then goes um and is discharged into the MIS. As water levels rise in pipes during wet weather, some of the flow is diverted into a collector system

which is depicted here and that goes into the storage system or deep tunnel. The rest continues in the MIS to water to the water reclamation facility. In some parts of the separate sewer area uh when water levels in the MIS get too high, flow is also able to be diverted into the storage tunnel. And this uh the storage tunnel holds the excess flow then until it can be treated. Under extreme conditions, our next slide here, like that of August 2025, the majority of the flow in the system is storm water. When the storage system is full, overflows can occur. During this time, flow continues to the water reclamation facilities through the MIS, but we do have um pathways where water will discharge um into the nearby waterways. Um in August 2025, our area experienced a severe flash flood that brought an unprecedented amount of rainfall across the entire service area and beyond. The intensity and volume of the storm overwhelmed the system resulting in significant overflows in our system. The volume of overflow during this event exceeded the storage capacity by a factor of 10. And this highlights the extreme nature of the storm and challenges faced in managing these conditions. The district's rain gauge network, consisting of approximately 20 gauges, captured critical data during the August 2025 flash flood. We had an average of about 9 in of rainfall throughout the area and that occurred in just 8 to 10 hours. The maximum recorded rainfall was at 81st in Florest and it measured 14 and a half inches approximately. On the northern part of White Fish Bay, the nearest rain gauge captured about 11

and a half inches. And on the southern part, um, over eight inches were recorded. So, let's talk about a question that affects us all. How does rain get into private sewer laterals and and municipal sewers throughout the area? As you can see in this figure, there's several ways that rain water can enter the sewer system. And we call this infiltration and inflow. Uh so why does this matter? It because when excess rain water gets into our system, it can lead to problems we all want to avoid like wet basement. Sometimes that that water comes directly through basement windows and doors. Other times it's ground water overwhelming some pumps and drain tiles. So whether it's rain water sinking into sewer pipes or ground water finding its way into our homes, the result is the same. there's too much water and it's in places it doesn't belong. Understanding these pathways is the first step to protecting our homes and our communities. Uh in order to help recovery efforts, MMSD compiled maps of damage reports from Milwaukee counties and surrounding counties, including those reported directly to MMSD. While there was damage throughout the area, hot spots or areas with the highest density of property damage are shown in red. The federal government declared this a natural disaster and FEMA assistance was requested and provided to private homeowners. There was significant flooding throughout the region within the MMSD service area. There was structural damage to parts of the river systems as well as our Southshore water reclamation facility and in the conveyance and storage systems as well.

Question. Yes. I What factor do you guys use of because I'm assuming you're probably well aware that this isn't everybody who flooded. There's probably a lot of people who didn't report. Do you guys have like a standard factor that you use to say it's probably X percent over this given the propensity of people not to report or fear of affecting their property values? Um from our standpoint um it it depends what we're looking at really. Um so looking at um you know a specific project we might make some assumptions but we don't have like a general rule for making that assumption. We kind of just reported out what we were receiving.

Okay. Thanks. That's it. Throughout throughout the MMSD territory, different communities advised residents differently about how to submit this information. So, for instance, I believe we were the only community that directed residents to use the MMSD form. U which in hindsight I'm thankful for because we are showing up on maps like this. Do you know if you ended up taking the 211 information submitted? Okay. So this map is 211 and MMSD.

Yes. Shortly after the event, um, MMSD met with Mwaukee County and other counties and they wanted to compile all the information kind of understanding that different people are going to be reporting to different thing things. I believe they reached out to some municipalities too. I'm not quite certain how that was all done, but just to kind of make sure we were trying to get the full picture of everybody that was reporting. Great. So this is all-encompassing.

Yes, this is Yeah. Okay. So what exactly happened uh in the MMSD system in Whitefish Bay? Um so Whitefish Bay is served by a large 42-in diameter MIS shown here and it runs from north to south. The connections from Whitefish Bay into MMSD system begin on the north end at Monontlair Avenue and continue southward all the way to Courtland Place. Under dry weather conditions, the flow moves steadily from north includes contributions from Fox Point in this area and Glendale and travel south to Jones Island water reclamation facilities. But things change when wet weather conditions arrive. When it rains from the north from the area north of Greenree in this area, flows change directions and they're diverted westward. So all this area during wet weather will will continue uh into a western portion of our system. And um what is continuing in this 42 in is just what's connecting to it. Um, so there's a little bit of Glendale up here and then the rest is White Fish Bay. At the same time this is happening, we've got um flow directed from this chamber here. This is on Fairmont. This is directed into a collector system which conveys flow to our storage system at this drop shaft NS3. So flows will continue through there and we can divert flow off the MIS uh so that flow can get to storage. Um, and then this continues until the gate at DC59, this gate here will close and then all of the flow will go through DC507 to storage. Um, now under extreme wet weather

conditions like those experienced in August 2025, storage can reach its limit and when that happens, overflows from the conveyance system into the receiving waters. Can you take a step back, Matt? I just have a couple of structures that I want to show. Um, yeah, thank you. Um, so when the storage system becomes full, um, we have we overflow then into area waterways. And this is to pro to hopefully prevent basement backups. And so we've got, uh, an overflow structure, BS513 here, and these two down here, BS516 and 15. So in short, dry weather uh is from sent south to Jones Island and then wet weather is diverted westward and then into the storage system and under extreme wet weather um then overflows occur when the storage is no longer available.

Where does uh BS513 outflow then if it that one uh believe goes through a local storm sewer, a White Fishbay storm sewer and to Lake Michigan. So when they're searchcharging, they're searchcharging into our sewers and then going for that location. Yes. What about further south? What about further south? Those go into uh the Milwaukee River directly. So is that one run down? So which which of our sewers does um VSS513 run into? Um it's a storm sewer in Montlair.

In Montlair. Yeah. So, do you you don't take advantage anymore of the old MIS on on Fairmont Avenue? No, you're not. I know it's ours now, but I didn't know if it I mean, because it's bigger. Well, it was an MIS. Um, but I thought since it was bigger, I wondered if that and I didn't realize that we were searchcharging into local sewers. So, that's interesting. The further south searchcharges where into what? because that's an area that we have a lot of impact further east and I'm just wondering where that's where that MIS is searchcharging into

um for you said uh BSO 516 you said that's a place where if it overflows to the Milwaukee River that goes straight into the river so that doesn't hit any other 515 and 16 go directly to the only place that we're hitting is further north on Montlair there. That's correct. And and we'll I'll show you the data there. We actually didn't end up searchcharging into that. Oh, we did story during the event. Okay. Okay. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around. Yeah. No, I get I get it. These are good questions. Thank you. I don't know if anybody warned you about me.

No, it's great. It makes it helps me and then I know that you understand the system and what I'm saying. So, that's helpful. All right. So we do have um I showed on that previous graph there are some meters we have um at Montlair and Lidell we have a level meter in our MIS. So this is depth data um that we're able to capture during the event. So the top horizontal line shows the crown or top of the pipe and since the MIS is 42 in this is at 3.5 and then the bottom horizontal line marks 0 feet. So, in the hours leading up to the August event, dry weather flow in the pipe remained steady at about 0.8 ft. That's shown here. As the storm began, water levels rose, reached their peak depth around 3:00 a.m. on August 10th. And as we can see, it's not quite to the crown. So, all of the flow stayed within the pipe. So, this shows that the 42 in was never exceeded and the pipes never exceeded the pipe's capacity. So it did not rise high enough to reach that overflow structure BS513. And then on the next um so this is within the structure on Fairmont and Lidell. This figure presents the depth data and um as in the previous figure it shows that the top of the pipe is around three and a half feet. And in the hours before the event were steady at about 1 foot within that pipe and once the storm begins, water levels rise reaching their peak around 2:00 a.m. at this location on August 10th. And at this location, this is where the gates are designed to move into an open position in order to divert flows into storage system. Um, and so this structure provided a lot of needed relief um to the 42-inch MIS which kept

everything kind of moving along. And um a lot of the the operation at DC57 and then the construction of DC59, a lot of that happened in the early 2000s. So, this has really been um since that time working a lot better for the White Fish Bay community. What would what would cause those, you know, those dips, you know, is it just like a lag in the rain? Is it

That's gate movement. So, it's um it's very sensitive to water levels. It doesn't fully open or fully clo Well, fully closes when it's dry weather flow. It will fully open if it gets high enough. Um, but when it's in that intermediate area, the gates are actually partially open. So, it's a little bit of So, that's notation of the water being that much lower. That's actually caught gate movement there. Yeah, that's right.

And just to this is actually kind of back two slides, but because of these, it made me think about these two charts. Um, none of the none of the water the sewage coming into either one of these stations are from combined sewers, right? They're sanitary, right? I mean, that that's a constant comment from folks. They'll say, "Well, because of the combined sewers, that's why we ever have any." And the the reality is is the topography says that's not the case. Downstream it is, but we're far enough upstream that we don't have any combined sewers. A contributing to these levels. Right. Right. Okay.

Is that I mean is it is it not possible that stuff would have backed up so much in Shwood that it would have backed up as far as White Fish Bay? Um based on that new operation, new structures. So basically we cut off flows at DC59. So flow wouldn't back up through the MIS system to White Fish Bay. Okay. And then the elevations at DC57 are high enough that we wouldn't back up to that system. the the flows overflow from those two locations here before they would

before they would back up. So, the only place that we might potentially have backup because of combined sewers in Shorewood would be any place that any of our local sewers might might flow into Shorewood sewers. I think we we don't have any. Thought we had one. I thought we used to have one. We don't anymore. Not not so you you can take that mic if you want. The the um it's on. You're good.

The um combined service area in Shorewood is east of Oakland.

Yeah. And all our sewer flows are headed to the Northshore MIS. And as that curls at the bottom um at the um so essentially between um Wilson and the trail. So this little that's where the separated side of Shorewood discharges in. four locations from um about uh Kensingtonish Congress all the way to Edgewood.

But our so Kramer area which is also east of Oakland our Kramer in Whitefish Bay does that flow east? That flows east. It doesn't flow south. No. Okay. Well, that's probably why that park gets No, but it shouldn't be then. That's what I was getting at. I was getting at is that the shore would back up would back up in the Kramer, but no. Okay. No, no, there's a hard barrier. There is. That's what I was wondering between the two communities. Okay. Thank you. Sorry. I'm always one to derail. No worries. Oh, no. I mean, this I I'm learning myself, so

Okay. So, um, just to kind of wrap up, during the August 2020 five event, um, the MIS serving Whitefish Bay performed exceptionally well. While some overflow did occur, the MIS was able to convey flows from the White Fish Bay sewers without causing any impacts to their operation. Um, and then lastly, um, unlike the MIS and White Fish Bay, other parts of our system were overwhelmed during the August 2025 event. That storm reminded us the hard truth. Um, our great infrastructure, pipes, tunnels, and treatment facilities are not designed to capture the full force of this of a flash flood like this. And with extreme storm events becoming more frequent, uh we know we must do more to address the problem of rainwater entering sewers and private laterals. MMSD is committed to continuing projects and programs both in municipalities with green infrastructure and in on private property through the district's PPI program. Uh these efforts are aimed at reducing damages from events like this and the one we experienced in August. We're also accelerating our flood management projects that were already in the pipeline and we will continue conducting studies to evaluate strategies and identify where projects are needed the most. In short, we recognize the challenges ahead and we are starting to take action working to strengthen our system to protect our comm communities and prepare for future storm events.

Thank you. Thank you. um the PPI program. So, how committed is MMSD to really redoubling efforts um on PPI efforts throughout the various communities? I know there was some stuff, you know, the the initial lining got paused and so we weren't able to do anything for a while. I know things are back and I know that we've got more of a we're looking at totally replacing pipes, but I'm just wondering has this impacted this event impacted the way that MMSD is approaching PPI in the future?

Um, at this time there hasn't been too much talk of how that will change based on this event. Um, but but likely it will um as time goes on and just looking at we'll be looking at opportunities to make the program more effective. We we are always trying to do that. Um sometimes it's a slow process, but um we always do look for ways to really see where the impact is, you know, in talking to municipalities, trying to see which techniques work the best, different um monitoring equipment and things like that to help identify things quick more quickly and where the problem areas are. So, we just continue to communicate with everybody and kind of share um all the information we learned through the program as time goes on.

Is there efforts um on the MMSD side to make the program as efficient as possible? you know, for example, potentially talking with, you know, communities to find out what check punch list things or what things might be um potentially I don't want to say overkill, but you know, a little more stringent than than maybe strictly necessary and and having that impact the number of people whose homes actually get fixed.

Um, yeah, as far as I know, I I I don't know. I don't work directly with PPI program. Okay. Um but um I know Becky's always willing to um speak with you speak with municipalities and that type of thing. So Okay. I can ask and have her follow up. Thanks. Sure. Any other questions for Carrie regarding MMSD or is we'll go into the next level of a recap being more on our side of things and I can present the village and go from there. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Gary.

All right, so the next following slides, some of this stuff I've covered in previous either reports or public works committee meetings. Uh if I'm going too fast, by all means, just ask questions. We can go from there. So, the first one is we had a postevent meeting internally with both our police department because they work second, third shift. So they had eyes and ears as this event really started to uh move forward especially that 3 in the morning when things were really at that peak flow as you saw with some of the charts. Uh third shift police officers uh you can see highlight in yellow that's where they seen more of the measurable flooding street flooding. Um, so we wanted to identify on the storm water side of things where those areas of impact were really visually seeing as far as vehicles that maybe weren't able to get through through those streets, whoever was left as far as that early in the morning. But, uh, we wanted to make sure that we record those things as we look at future projects. uh catch basins. Do we need to increase the catch basin size and capacity in order to allow for more of that storm water flow to actually hit hit from our streets to go into that? So, keep in mind that our public rightway is storm water capacity, right? That's a way for us to hold storm water within our rightway, our streets, curb to curb in order to uh give it time in order for the rainfall to catch up to our storm water system. So, it's built as far as that internal capacity of our public rideway and that's just the remnant of uh those streets that were not able to keep up with our catch basins in order to have that flow enter our storm water.

Can I ask a question? Yes. And I'm actually going to probably ask Mustafa. Do you remember where our street flooding was in in 2010? because it feels like that that big grid that we've got there was not specifically where our street flooding was before. I know that I know that it was um Santa Monica for sure and I felt like it was east of Santa Monica and south of Hampton which is I'm glad to see that it's not there.

Did we move it or was this also an area that has just remained a hot spot? I'm trying to visualize these I have these maps. I have um remember that being a hot spot, but maybe I'm wrong. Well, no, you're right. I mean, we've always really had um in the southeast corner, we had a whole bunch of streets that were so flack. I mean, the name Wilshshire comes to mind. Um so, right. So, um, on the on the west side, I don't remember anything in the in in those years. Um,

if you have a chance, but I have all of the studies and stuff. You know what I should do? I should just give you everything I have. No, seriously. I I I made a I I I collected all of So, as you know, um um we we had a wave after wave of of of of studies and and uh and I I I kind of made it my business to just hold on to all of it. Um so I have like two gigs of like reports and scans and things like that. So I I should share that with you guys. And you know, going back to it, Kevin said, uh, when this room was full,

right? The the first time I was I was here when the room was full, it was 97. Yeah, it was over there. But, you know, we were joking with Carrie. It's like, you know, if so, she said, "Oh, are you anticipating a lot?" I said, "No, one, if that was the case, we would have Kevin here." Kevin Schaefer. Kevin Schaefer. So, no, I think that the this this map shows something new, but also I I I agree that the fact that the southeast and the east didn't really show up is is a good thing. Yeah, I'm happy. I just Yeah.

Quick comment about this map and did the police use a particular metric for that? like this was just this like wow it was bad here because I can tell you my street had a couple feet of water in it. The water was all the way past the sidewalk. Um but it doesn't show up and and so I guess mine wasn't bad enough to show up on you know what I mean? Like this seems like it's an anecdotal map where they happen to be driving and they said that looks bad. Let's mark it down.

Say too this was I would say more anecdotal. we asked for a recap and this is the areas based on their memory of where they knew that they've seen problematic areas during that event. Is it comprehensive? I'll say no. I I think more the question would simply be how deep do you think it was in the in the yellow areas? Cuz if if it's, you know, three or four feet that then the map makes sense. If it's a couple feet, then I think it would be yellow everywhere. Yeah. You know, based on my memory of those conversations with our chief, it was more can a car go through. It was basically that level of should it go on the map or not. I was going to move my car up the street a little bit. So, anyways. Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely. So, slide.

All right. So, we have shared this. This was part of previous um public works committee meeting packets. I'm more than happy to share it as a separate PDF because of course our village as Mustafa pointed out is the wrong way. It's not horizontal, it's uh vertical. So, it doesn't show very well on a PowerPoint map. So, can't zoom in to really show more of the comprehensiveness on a PowerPoint. But either way, um 134 reported um with storm water, clear water in their basement, 31 sanitary sewer, 49 storm water and sanitary, and 60 through 211. As we had previous discussions, some people, and it's the reality, don't know the difference between sanitary and storm water. So, we try to take that in with a grain of salt because people see all this clear water, but it's because of all the INI that's inundating their their floor drains. And where does that floor drain come from? The sanitary side. So, it's more so comprehensive who had wet basements is how I look at those numbers to look at a more total holistic approach.

U Matt, there's about 5,000 homes in White Fish Bay. 4,800 to 5,000. Yes. Yeah. And and so I mean we're only looking like 2% here, but it seems like it was more than that, you know. I mean,

correct. I guarantee more than that based on how much, you know, we had to pick up on the curb side. Absolutely. I I do believe that people for whatever reason didn't report out. So, this is not comprehensive by any means. It's just the information just like MMSD. which whatever was self-reported in order for us to at least maybe see some trends or is there like an area of concern, but this is pretty spread out. the one in red on the more southwest side. Those are larger addresses and that's why it looks bigger, but it's if it's one address, it shows larger as an icon, but it doesn't mean that there was larger scale problems in red uh with those condominiums, the cradles. Yes.

Just to call out a an obvious after this presentation that if if you had a gallon of anything, whether that was wastewater or clear water, MMSD would take it. You know, I I I think there's commentary about, oh, MMSD didn't have the capacity to handle our flows. And indeed, they did. And they did to an extent that they never even searchcharged. Right? And so when I look at these 31 and 49, but depending on, you know, if those numbers are accurate or under reportported, that that represents topographic areas in Bay that didn't have enough capacity for what we were putting through it. But if if those flows could have gotten to the MIS, we would have been okay. Is that basically a good summary?

That makes sense. Would that make sense? I Yes. Okay. Do we to put it more plainly, any problem was not a result of the MIS was not a result of MS. It was local sewers. Local source. Correct. We had that conversation and they fixed it. I mean, uh, 20 years ago, right? That wasn't true. I know. And that's why there's not 200 people in this room.

That's right. one two and recall Car's um a description of what happens right so that diversion north of us on Greenree um is that it wasn't always like that it was the result of White Fish Bay Shorewood you know 97 98

and then 2010 2011 right each one of them and then you know, the operation at um down south and the diversion and I mean all of that was step by step that MIS not being searchcharged is sort of the result of the last decade and a half of work by by by the district and now we can then say okay well it's in our yard and we'll we'll handle it. couldn't figure it out. That's why we did the Fairmont bypass knowing that at the end of it we'd be safe.

That reminds me, you mentioned um the deep tunnel was one storage and then you said there was another north west water storage. Where is that? I I was until you said that. I never knew that there was another one. I think the mic needs to be turned back on. I don't see the red. Just if people are listening in, right? I should probably I'm asking a bunch of questions. Um, so it's in the northwest part of our service area. It starts in like kind of the northwest part of Milwaukee and uh goes through Wawaossa area, that type of thing. It ends underground. It's under the deep tunnel.

Yeah, it's like the deep tunnel. It's a little bit separate from the deep tunnel in that um it it drains into the tunnel after the event. So, it's it's storage, whereas the tunnel is, you know, we're pumping. We're trying to treat as much as we can during the event. Um, this is just solely storage. And then after an event's over, we would drain it. When did we build that? 2006. Okay. Thanks,

Matt. I'm curious. I don't want to cut you off, but I think everybody agrees that there was under reporting. Um, so maybe that's not a reliable metric, but I am curious if there's any way to gauge based on the one reliable metric we do have, which is how much weight of stuff we took out.

Yeah, cuz I I divided it. It's right now if only 274 people had basement issues, then we took an average of,445 pounds from every person who called them. I don't know if there's a way to just figure out I everybody's basement's different. Everybody's going to have different damages, but just kind of get a rough gauge of like the average basement will eject 750 pounds worth of waste and maybe use that metric as a way to better gauge how many basements have issues or or at least the neighborhood. I mean, because that what's included in that is people who like me had water come in through a window.

Sure. you know, so that's not I wouldn't want to have that reported or worked into our metrics as if I had a sewer issue because it was literally came in a window. Um, but maybe but that would be easier for us if we're looking at this whole block has garbage out. That's probably more likely to be a sewer issue than the random one house in the middle of a block. And you're right, these are all good indicators I would say from the storm, but at the same time, we also do hydraulic modeling of the entire village because one thing that we'll get to within the slide

in total is we want to do a recap of what it means to have 9.2 to 11 in of of water. That is just that that's a lot. It's almost unfathomable as far as within a 24-h hour period. And again, those indicators show us as far as maybe patterns or blocks or streets or even with refuge collection that those areas are more susceptible. But flipping the page from a recap to next steps, we have to be very clear as far as what what we're able and capable of solving. And if we use too much of the thousand-year storm as just our only metrics, I think it's a good metric, but we don't want to use it as our only metric because that might it there's a disparity about what we're able to solve based on that volume of storm water.

So I think that it's one of those things that's it's definitely an arrow for our quiver. Um so we we want to keep that. We want to have this data, but we also want to rely on Clark Deetsz and their engineering to see where our areas that are most susceptible to basement backups to continue down that path with continuous improvements. So, it it's it's not a whole story with what's reported. And I would hate to, you know, rely on, you know, my street crew to say this block had the most garbage and then that's where we're going to spend 1.2 million. It's nice to know that stuff, but it's also the hydraulic modeling that will say this has the most area of searchcharging based on what the capacity is and we should do something about this area. And Mustaf will will talk more in like next steps, but I just want to make sure that for anyone listening or the committee, that's got to be a fine line of the thousand-year storm recap. And what we're talking about next is our capital improvement program. And we definitely want to hit that. We don't want to keep we want to keep our foot on the pedal, but we have to do it very strategically too.

To that same point, can you comment about what year what year flooding event MMSD is planning to? I believe I heard five 500. Is that right? In your planning documents, what are your goals? It used to be 100 year was standard. What What are you planning to in your infrastructure? Well, 100 year is still a standard. Um we do look at for caps in larger events. We recently completed a thousand year study looking at some more sensitive areas in service area to see what would happen.

Um we may have some recommendations that come out of that but it it's not the standard. Um we are looking at uh you know consistently revising 100ear flood elevations through like areas you know Noah is out with a revised rainfall reference for our area. They'll be coming out with that next year that may take those events. So coming years updating as

Okay. Am I crazy or was there a push at one point to go away from the hundredyear storm, thousand-year storm and name them something else? Um there was actually Okay, thank you. I just was thousand year storm loses Yeah. some of its meaning when you have it every 10 years. Right. Right. And I and there was a there was a push to start to refer I thought more to the volume of water that came down or something like that. But okay, really bad storm.

All right. So, here's just a recap, and I don't think I'll hit all these into too much detail, but if there's questions, by all means, but to Jacob's point, like when you do the math, 198 uh tons, I have the deepest respect, and I'll say it out loud, for our our DPW team that spends like several weeks going through and canvasing neighborhoods and physically hauling 100 our 396,000 lbs. And also my empathy to those basements and our residents that had to remove all their materials if they uh received uh either sanitary storm or both. But it it was a lot for the village and and I think Glendale I think what what did you have for the number if you remember?

1.35. Wow. Yeah. So even more in Glendale. Just to comment on the language you just used that you know basement impacted by sanitary or storm. Um the my my basement was impacted by neither, but there were clear there's clear water seeping in from the bottom and the sides because the houses are 90 years old and the drain tiles are, you know, probably crushed by this point in time. So the a lot of that 396,000 lbs is people like me who I I'm not blaming the sewer system. I'm blaming the fact that my foundation is, you know, nearly a hundred years old and that's just what happens.

And I'm number two on that that I had the same thing happen to my own baby. You get 10 inches of rain. I've said this number of time. You get 10 inches of rain, your house is now a boat and you are trying to keep water out of the from the soil coming into your your basement. And that's I'll bet you it's more than half of that. Kevin, I think um you know that's part of the under reporting. I think it it happened in a lot of places in a lot of our Northshore for sure. um you know while you know four and a half five minutes out go the US government kids

uh you know while if if it if it happened 400,000 pounds of debris collected after 4 and a half inches of rain right people tend to um um tend to conclude that it's it's it's unfair

it's it's it shouldn't be right So I think that's where we are in um like when we had 200 people here we had 4 and a half inches of rain right and I think the message from the people to the government was it's not like it's 10 inches of rain it's 4 and a half inches of rain should like make it not do this right so I think that that's why people are like

yeah we're not going to solve that problem if it rains 14 in as it did west of here All right. What are you going to do? So that's I mean I think that's why people sit on their head. The outrage factor is lessened as sort of people are sophisticated more sophisticated than we think they are. I think but to my in my neighborhood certainly some things have been done because in 2010 there was water to here. I live on Wilshire. There was water here,

right? And I think some of of the flooding, the 10 and 12 ines of rain or whatever, I agree with you that it is what it is. But I have lived in the house long enough that I've seen other rain, not just 4 and 1/2 in, impact that area because I think there are some things as a village we could do as far as people's landscaping, how close we let people build things, how big houses are. I mean, part of the problem on my street is that Lake Drive sits, you know, 3 and 1/2 ft above us or whatever, and it all comes down this way. And then one of my neighbors houses is like at the lowest point of White Fish Bay where they've done a lot they spent a lot of money redoing the whole yard and taking out trees and to create a place for the water to go and the water still this time again it's 10 in it came in their windows and but I think it's it's more than just the sewer. We have definitely done things to make it better, but I just think as a village, we should also think about some other things about, you know, how much how big we let people get their patios at some point. And I mean, it just we, you know, I always say this about White Fish Bay. We choose to live here, but by choosing to live here, you have to accept the fact that your neighbor is kind of your housemate. I mean, it just is what it is. And so I think we have to sometimes be more aware of that as we as a village do things whether it's regulation or or whatever because I've I mean I've spent so much money in my backyard to keep it from being a swamp French drain tiles and all of that kind of thing and and it's still not great back there. So, I think we just have to as we get into thinking about all these things, it's not just the sewer, which thank goodness we did something because I didn't have water this deep when we got 10 and a half inches of rain in my street. So, that's

good. Yeah.

So, my only other bullet point just for an update is on the public assistance. So that's anything within our right-of-way facilities, what we could claim through FEMA with our DPW staff time, more importantly, and the refues that we dropped off to waste management, it amounted to about $50,000 that we claimed through the the FEMA portal and working with Milwaukee County. Uh govern Governor Ivers did declare that is state of emergency, but I think everyone knows that FEMA did reject the public assistance. So, our $50,000 amongst all the other municipalities that had that claim. So, now um Milwaukee County Emergency Management is appealing that process and that started in November, I guess, cross our fingers. But the good thing for us is that we were able to use our own internal staff. Yes. I mean that's true cost and we pivoted away from other critical you know things that we should be doing at that time to prioritize the flood damage the cleanup the restoration all that stuff but we were able to absorb it internally whereas other municipalities had to outsource through John's uh disposal and that's true direct cost that we do not have within our DPW our village. So I I think that doing our own refues really did help us and we had our trucks and we were able to pivot very quickly though too. So that's also part of it. So we didn't have to sit in a room and negotiate with John's. We were able to just grab and go and get stuff off of people's curves. And I think that that speaks volumes as far as our level of customer service.

What what reason did FEMA give for rejecting it? Oh jeez. I don't It was political. Yeah, I was going to say probably

I do I'm fearful of bringing this up, but I was talking to the manager in Glendale today and talking part of the conversation it wasn't focused on that was about leaf collection and they were able to do a significant amount of leaf collection that week of Thanksgiving. So I think this is a very helpful example of in the case of the storm event or of the flooding having in-house refuge collection was incredibly beneficial. incredibly. They were negotiating I think over a week before they even started collection. Whereas we rolled out we announced on the the basically the day after it happened and rolled out on Monday. Um but in the case of leaf collection when we have to dedicate additional DPW workers who aren't normally on routes to do double routes then you have that downside. And so I just I don't want to open up the leaf collection route but I I think it's important to understand the balance. Sometimes it's helpful. Sometimes it is difficult from an operating standpoint. Does that make sense?

Oh, it does. But I have ideas. Yeah. But anyways, and I don't want to go down that route, but I just would came up twice today and so I wanted to mention it. All right. So, here's some pictures. I wish I would have I I was out there earlier, but the you could see this is a Kill uh basin. It's typically a dry basin, but of course during these peak events, this is the highest I've ever seen, and I was out there early. You can almost see up that scum line is even higher of where it was. Yes, that'd be because it was the first time it went into the baseball diamond and I'd never seen it go into the baseball diamond.

And and the baseball diamond is part of that storm water detention facility. So that's all by design. And I think there was other communities I think of Tossa with Heart Park. I believe it's all part of their design that it's flood plane. So you can use it 99% of the time, but during these peak storm water, it's you can't use it anymore because the football field is still Oh. It functioned as intended. It functioned as intended, but

that's what was surprising to people, but that was the intent. Yeah. The other MBSD presentation Kevin gave here a month ago had some great slides from MMSD about their ability to create natural detention areas and like this area flooded because we wanted it to and I mean we didn't want to but they designed it to do that and it it was pretty cool like the the the the massiveness of um needing to have you know acres and acres and acres of land that has now been kind of developed in such a way that it's going to it's going to become a temporary lake and that was really cool.

Did did Hoy Park the area behind Hoy did that fill totally? Uh I don't know about the area behind was that it did. Yeah, because that's the other really big one that I know about. Are you talking about the county grounds detention? It was about 88% full. It was okay. That's massive. Yeah. It's behind water. Yeah. The walking trails and Yeah.

All right. So, just some more pictures of the erosion over at Cody Beach. Uh but keep in mind that we successfully added a lot of green infrastructure right before this. So, yeah, the pictures aren't the greatest to look at as far as the amount of erosion, but I firmly believe this could have been 10 times to 20 times worse if we did not uh finish up our bio storm water management, introduce native species, and it's only going to get better with time as we have more of those species that take root, especially on the hillside over the next 3 to 5 years that will continue to help out with our erosion challenges. So, this will be a project for our DPW staff in spring to reintroduce new sand. So, that's something that we were not able to accomplish, but given winter weather, it just makes sense to have a fresh coat anyway in spring. So, I think we will be ready to go for uh spring of 2024 with this one.

In the meantime, were they able to straight smooth it out? We were not able to ever get to that one. Um, my older child will be doing Polar Plunge, so I'll get back to you in about a month or so. Really? Best of luck to him. Not particip. I'm going to watch.

All right. Update on sanitary sewer infrastructure. So, this is more Mustafa's world. So looking back um of all the times that we had to do this seven 8 n and you know I said hundreds but you know the numbers in those presentations um so those three years they were in the three to 400s. So we came back here to report on 350 homes and and then it happened again in 98. there was 400 something in July and those were in the four four and a half inch sort of um and that's I think when the village finally decided that you know the full force of the village government should be behind solving this problem right and I think um 2000 if if if you think about all of the work and sort of planning and budgeting and all of that. That's uh probably in the year 2000. Um you were on the board, right?

2009. Nine. Yeah. Okay. So, this predates you, too.

Yep. Um so there was a lot of work in the 2000s um and and and culminating in about 04ish to sort of make its way into the planning right the c the borrowing plan and um so I added up storm and sanitary projects between 06 and 15 and just on pipe work I came up with $15 million of sewer replacements in um you know, let's just say 10 years, right? So that's um and if you look at before then there was not a hell of a lot. So this is sort of when the village decided um and 2010 sort of became um a a point in sort of what had been replacing sewers into building new things to directly confront the the the problem. Right? So that would have been the time period when uh the district would have been working on there. So, because they were um Ary wasn't doing the rounds, Kevin Schaefer was standing here getting yelled at and um she was I mean, you know, and and um so that's sort of how we as as the village sort of um addressed it, right? So um in the last decade after Cahill Pond um and we did the U Fairmont relief, we

did the Palisades and uh we embarked on a very ambitious PBI program. Uh we uh also um made sure that um we were trying to tighten up the sewer mains themselves. um you know we invest heavily on sewer lining every year and have been for decades. Um and so that's been sort of the the the pro progression um about I want to say five six years ago so this would have been just before COVID um we also came up with additional focus areas. So we had indicated the bottom third, the southern t third of the village as our first um priority. But then we have this spine going like the middle of the of the village where we call basin 6. Um so it's literally the middle uh just west of here. And uh um so those are in the books. um you know the CIP includes many of the of the items. If you go to the next one um we can um we can essentially sort of see the progress. Um I think the next wave of u of improvements that are in the giant financial plan that has been working on. Um the the uh there are still pockets right so like just said about Wilshshire and you know Wilshire is a known thing right and we've kind of

been incremental about it over the years um but uh you know work remains to be done you know and um I think that one of the things that we Ed and I uh always talk about is that yeah, you know, there are ongoing maintenance things, right? Sewer lining, you know, you reduce inflow, um private laterals, right? We've been doing it um for many years now. We have hundreds of homes already lined. Um now we are embarking on a placement program but we have to be cautious about um extreme wet weather forecast for right I mean I think that we are at a place where in all I can be somewhat um comfortable with a 2inch ring number three inches of rain and we'd be on pins and needles.

Um, now we have to sort of extend that to every place. So, our goal public work side is to make sure that we don't have these random pockets where there are unreasonable performance, right? So when 4,000 homes are, you know, you know, think about it, when there's three and a half inches of rain and, you know, 400 people are on pins and needles. So those that that's kind of like so so that bring the floor of no worries, no protect, no worries, protection up. Uh we've John Elbeck and I had had this number um a a 3 inch one hour rainfall who gets hit. So that's the kind of thinking maybe that's what

I think that's what I'm thinking of. Yeah. So we we kind of like tw turned it around to just to because you know when when you hear about rainfall on the radio on the radio you don't on the radio for more um on on here I am it's that tells you in inches not in probabilities right right

so that we wanted to have people be able to make the connection to a half and So that's sort of the progression. Um I think um the major work I want to say is probably done you know u things that cost you know more than five at a time million at a time but I think that we can't just call it good and we have some ideas and lists I would like to come Um we call it continued capital improvements. Um so main rehab. Yes. Uh and private viral rehab. Yes. So as funding allows us, we're going to go we hold the cards on the first one, the sto. Um, so one thing that uh I was thinking about this this third bullet when you were asking about the MIS bypass. So we have uh six bypasses in our Did I say six? I meant 16. So 16 bypasses. Um bypasses are sort of old man's way of handling a vast problem. These are our bypasses that go from the sanitary to the storm.

So yeah. So what what you do is you essentially build a shorty between storm manhole and a sanitary manhole. Make it high enough so that it doesn't always right and waits until it's a certain elevation you hit. And um

and we had and we had some reversed for a minute there, didn't we? So, you know, my life's mission is to go to each and every one of them and either stop them or make sure they work as intended. So, there there's at least four of them that I'm I know of personally that. So, here's what happens. Um, you know, it work both systems searchcharge, right? Yeah. Well, if the storm searchcharges first, then all bets are off. It flows back into the center.

That's still happening. I thought we had gone and fixed those. Well, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to make sure that that's because if I personally don't know that but I wasn't involved in every just something please.

Yes. So that's um and then um we had I also dug up an old memo from 2017ish that has some relief sewer construction basin 6 uh that was u backed uh when we started talking about pal states. So, I'm just putting it out here so that it's current. It will be your sort of agenda. Doesn't have to be today, but really it's helpful.

Can I ask a quick question about number two? Um, work on private lateral rehab. Yes. Um if if you had to guess as to the flows going in the the sanitary, what percent is inflow uh infiltration? Sorry. Uh and what what percent is Palmer valves and uh water flowing in from foundation drains? Which is the bigger one? Which is the biggest thing? You don't have to come up with percentages, but my my my guess has always been foundation drains. Yeah. It has.

And and so that's why I always look at number two and I go, why are we ignoring the the number one source of clear water? You know, um because it's hard. I know it's hard. We've and we, you know, we we created a a program four or five years ago that went nowhere that would subsidize people putting in sump pumps. Yeah. Well, we do it again. I I know and I every time I see bullet point number two, I'm going to bring up this point that the number one s the number one source is foundation drains. DNA.

You know, in the olden days, we the easy thing the easy stuff is done, right? So, I mean, I of the maps that I'm going to share with you, we'll just create a Dropbox sub uh you know, there's a inventory of connected bounce and those Yeah. Those are all taken care of. Yeah. Yeah. And we essentially said, you know what, you know, we inspected them. The building department, they were disconnected.

In a in a large rain event like this, though, my understanding is the foundation drains are not the main contributor of the water during an event like this because it takes a minute for that water to get to the foundation drains in order to get through the polymer. There is a lot. I mean, it's funny to see that graph and just see how it just skyrockets and you know, it's all I and I. Oh, it is. You know, all of it. And so, it takes a while, but it didn't take that long. I I think the the um I've always said, you know, we have to do the easy stuff, but

ultimately the to get, for example, you we we couldn't have done um what we achieved on Palisad and Woodruff, right? So my name when I was studying this thing, the the Vermont relief sewer, the the thing was called Woodruff relief and u so essentially that's like nine 12 block area north of where she is. I'm pointing at you, Madam Chair.

You're pointing at me. Sorry, I was getting out of caution. So yeah and uh but you know there's not much you can do trying to remove the source to bring widespread benefit right there had to be a hydraulics channel

right so you know the the when the MIS doesn't fill to the brim right it does it didn't happen like that because somebody did massive INI reduction. It happened like that because districts spent tens of millions of dollars to divert the flow from it. So in other words, you know, at some point real protection, peace of mind standard, right? It's going to have to prove hydraulic improvements. I mean, there isn't much you can do in a backyard to prevent lake drive yards and properties draining. Those

you have to contain it and carry. I mean, there needs to be physical conveyance facility so that you know what I'm saying. So, have an edge. We're talking if we promise everyone's like, well, you know, peace of mind, three inches of rain, then it has to be a place. So, is there something coming to mind that would impact that area in a positive way? Um, the Kramer, Wilshire, you know, that area, we have to rethink, okay? You know, we have to rethink how we've approached like, you know, incre So, some things aren't incorrect.

Okay? So, do we have the dreaded flow data? Um, the one that you asked me to get your uh Yeah, that So, I have current data, but I I I'm struggling to find something to compare it to. Where do we have flow? Where do we have meters right now? We got two or one. They're both in the south for both in the south half. Is that enough? Uh, that's because of our PPI program. And then you have two MMSD meters u I think just two for the wipers bay connections

and we're going to add one more in 2026 that we purchased a full monitor and a full meter for the village owned. So we'll be placing those in 2026. Is that enough for us to be able to sus out what a solution would be? Wait. Um, so a a hydraulic solution doesn't need it's computer. Yeah.

Full metering is tough because it's all depending on intensity, time of storm, all the other factors, spring, summer. There's a lot more factors that go into full monitoring and comparing apples to apples. It's hard to find apples to apples with full monitoring. just because there's a lot of other response. Would it help during an event though to know where things are filling that? That's part of our strategy in a separate slide that that's okay. We didn't share the next. Let's go to the next. Let's move this along here.

All right. So, uh this I put this together just to summarize what was included within our uh CIP that was adopted by the village board. Just to put true dollars and cents of the village board's commitment to those continuous improvements of what village staff, village engineer, staff engineer will all be working towards is multiple different angles and approaches for both storm and sanitary. So you can see in 2026 we have our routine types of events of PPI, our lining program that's going to be a half a million dollars we're planning on bidding out in the very soon early first quarter of 26. So that one will be a 2026 program. Storm sewer maintenance and repairs. Keep in mind that some of that is based on Tom Zulik's report where we have to do necessary uh repairs to our storm sewer system based on those inspections. So, we have maintenance that's definitely a requirement on top of those upgrades. So, it's it's a balancing act between the two of those. But as you can see, between 26 and 27 and the six-year CIP, we're going to continue down that course and be adaptive that if we find something out based on Mustaf and us, like looking at things in future presentations, the next borrow might have a recommendation based on $50,000 that we're going to spend, give or take, investigating and determining where those more susceptible areas may be within the village and have future discussions. So, this is more of a recap. This is not an end all beall, but it's real dollars and cents to keep on pointing us in the right direction. All right, some pictures that you can kind of sort of see. Uh, one that was shared within on the left is lined versus unlined sanitary mains within the village. So, us uh what we own with our sanitary utility. So again, continuous improvements and we do a three-year

cycle on our uh televising to see where we have the the more of the issues as far as cracking, joint failures, uh root infiltration to continue down our lining program. And then to the right, that is basin number six. We pulled that slide. So that's the area of focus where you see right more in the center of the village that Mustafa uh was speaking to previously about potentially the next area of focus is bypass solutions for within basis number six. So with that uh operational improvements so we talked about the capital side but there's also things internally that we need to do for continuous improvement and that's re evaluate standard operating procedures. There's documents out there. We need to dust them off. Especially, we want to make sure we're pointing our staff in the right location based on all the years of improvements. Those documents maybe don't point us to bypass pumping operations on Fairmont if that um is not an issue as much anymore. So this next year we want to evaluate with Clark Deetsz, our operational staff, our flow meters that have been purchased. So we are able to be more nimble if that alarm goes off in the middle of the night that we already have the equipment. We have knowledgeable staff, we have technicians, but we want to make sure that we put those efforts where they're most needed. If we need to physically pump from a sanitary into a storm, DNR allows us to do it. we just have to report out the day 24 hours or 48 hours after, but we want to make sure that it goes to those higher susceptible areas before we do larger scale capital improvements. So, that's something that we're going to be looking at next year. Continuous training because we have a lot of newbies that's part of our DPW operations. Uh inspections are going to continue and then like I say, the monitors. So there's there's a lot of

things that we internally know that we've had lessons learned as much as continuous improvement going into next year that's going to be part of our training and adaptability. All right, so that is it. So any other questions that we did not answer? Thank you very much. Thank you, Carrie. Thank you, Mustafa. CJ, you said you weren't going to speak, but you did. So thank you. Okay. All right.

Thank you. All right. Moving on. Sorry, that's my job. Uh, moving on to our next agenda item. Uh, discussion recommendations of the Silver Spring traffic signal synchronization proposal.

Excellent. So, I will quickly tee this one up and then CJ will do a majority of the speaking to this. So as part of the Sendix redevelopment, there was I think nine public meetings that we had and some of them were very detailed oriented uh based on public improvements and public infrastructure that surrounds that area within TID 1, TID 3. Part of those discussions that we wanted to report back because that was a request of the public works committee and village board is concerns relating to potential vehicle backups especially with how close and proximity on Silver Spring Council is to Lake and Marorrow and ensuring that that is looked at, evaluated for traffic flow, traffic patterns, safety concerns with putting in a new traffic signal on council and Silver Spring. So CJ and the Clark de team did a wonderful job looking at different options and solutions that are included on the packet. Um and I'll let CJ just kind of go through all of the homework that he's done since we approved the public improvements.

Hi. Um I'll try to be brief on the bullet points here on the one table, but I think if we could just stay right here with this picture for a second. Um what came up on those nine meetings was the concern of backing up on social vertic cars back up where did they back up to like function movies. Um, one of the bigger things anecdotally when people we've all experienced is coming down Lake Drive, coming to Marboro, it's the intersection area there, you're turning on to uh Silver String Drive to the west, you kind of back up because of the Sendex driveway at Hollywood. There's just kind of a lot going on into that, you know, coming out of that intersection going.

Yep. You do coming from this this direction going this way, coming around the bend, coming this way, coming through the intersection. There's that driveway right here. There's the intersection right here. You kind of experience that today. Well, maybe not today because I think it's gone. But, um, you experience that stuff there. Um, so the concern was what happens when this is all red and you're coming flying in and now what do you do? Or vice versa, what happens coming, you know, from now. The, um, the reminder that I had to tell myself was that we're already doing improvements to this. um meaning we don't have the turning movements in this intersection anymore like you would experience today.

So you have a longer queuing from Lake Drive to council um from a couple hundred feet this way to Hollywood, right? And then another about 100 feet this way that you have now added to that turning point. So that's that's the first reminder. The second reminder is you're not turning on to Hollywood at all. So there's really just a flow of traffic improvement inspire. So we went back and forth on synchronizations and how many signals we want to look at, how far do we want to look west and how far do we want to look east and we fell back on well the real concern has been basically from this point to this point what happens right here. Um that's what was brought to us in those nine eight seven four whatever how whatever times we talked about this conversation. So we we went through um Fanny pro provided a proposal to look at Lake Drive Council um Santa Monica all the way west to light up right to all the five intersections. They said I can do all these things your signals and do all those things. Um we talked to uh Taco which provides fancy AI lights and bars and you can have it on the phone and your apps and all the things right. Um but what we eventually fell on is that we need to focus on these two intersections at hand and improve the two intersections that we're talking about. If this village desire to go further, sure, there's some options, but this is supposed to be a pedestrian improvement area, a vehicular vehicular improvement area. So, we don't necessarily want cars flying through the area. You know, we've listened to people talking about their bikes and they're walking and which way do they walk across and the bumpouts. We're trying to make it friendly for everybody. So, our recommendation is kind of look pulling it back a little bit by saying maybe you don't want to look at all five intersections. Maybe you don't want to look west of Santa Monica, maybe you just do a really how you can walk and actually enjoy drive around in the city. Okay. So, when all that we went through this roller coaster in our head and we

fell on well, we already are doing synchronization things with the things you already paint. Um, there's other above and beyond things with tad and tap world. Sure. Um, but what we're doing is that this signalized intersection, we are going to do a hybrid version of what Caddy talked about for all five intersections. And we're going to at least look at the Lake Drive Mar intersection here. And when this is green or when this is red, this is Hold on. When this is green, this turns so you don't get stuck. Right? So there's a way where you can time it and make sure that when you're driving through that corridor that the amount of cars backed up do not queue into late traffic. And that's what we're already doing today. So our recommendation is more focusing on those two intersections, not going three, four, five intersections down the road, not letting cars drive 30, 40 miles an hour through it. I mean, you already have the bump outs and all those things. Don't take away from what you've already built west by making people fly through these two or three blocks. Now again, there's things out there, but that's not necessarily what we at least heard from you guys in those night meetings or heard from the people standing here talking about those meetings. So we kind of pulled back and said we'll do what we can with the intersections in this area to improve the concerns that were brought up at the time, which is the backing up of my drive, the queueing, where the cars start and stop. and and CJ I guess to explain about peak flows and how we determine about those factors that yes those two intersections would not be actually communicating based on Clark De's recommendation that one intersection will not directly link but the engineering analysis based on Pete flows they will still be synced together based on that data in order to make those turn movements happen concurrently together and that technology is already there during your normal peak flow so your school days, Monday through Friday

traffic. You're going to have your morning and your peak flow and the commuters for in the evening hours and your weekends. So, all those things will be synced uh concurrently between all of our signals if you really want them to be because you can program them that way. But on top of that, when they're non- peak flows, that's when it goes into the recognition with the actual sensors for each one of our intersections that they would be able to pick up not only vehicle movements in order to maybe manage those side roads and give them preferential treatment if they're up there outside of those peak flow hours or even pedestrians and bicyclists. So you're using the technology that's already there on Marorrow and Lake and now you're just making sure that one talks to another in order to minimize and manage those Q lines that the engineering and the data are talking to other.

So um developer had asked Patty to do much reports right they were they talked about can turn they talked about the left in right in right out of that driveway and how what happens if you remove the driveway right across from highway. They talked about a lot of these things, but one thing that I printed and at least brought here just so I could remember um this intersection right here at there's a right turn lane that we're putting in right here. Right here and then a through and a left turn lane here. Uh the through the through and the left turn lane here about 150 ft of queuing. That's what they're anticipating on full build full buildout. Um, so with the three 400 feet of available space, there's twice as much room now, especially since you put the medium through um, Hollywood, right? So there's that extra buffer zone. Um, they have about I think it's 40 feet. So two or three cars that are going to make that right turn lane to kind of sit and wait to turn into Sendex is what they're kind of assume. Um now if you look at the existing conditions they modeled and looked at this intersection right here with that driveway and it also had like 50 60 70 ft depending on which direction went up queuing. Well 50 ft of queuing is the ambulation is at. So, I just wanted to say that yes, there's been versions of this um there's been iterations of this that um has been analyzed.

So, um all of our lights are behave in a way that want them. I hope so. Not rogue.

Not not not rogue. And for better or the worst, they don't talk to each other. They behave so because they're programmed, right? I mean, they're you essentially tell them, okay, starting at midnight plus 6, you have to be red. Before you're red, 3 seconds, you have to be yellow. So essentially it's a much and then you take that take the speed limit and say okay there well if I give the person a green here and they have to travel 620 ft right you know so in 4.2 two minutes I'm going to give them another rating or I'm going to make them that's how we control right so they are synchronous because they're not they don't exist by itself so I think that syn the words synchronization and communication are separate They currently don't follow. They know what each other does because somebody's wrote that. So what CJ is saying is that the new signal is going to be programmed to work with the uh monolate signal and the sound. It's just going to you're essentially going to take that signal timing and then put the one in the middle, but you're going to modify all three. so that each one knows that there is now much more.

Well, I I don't want to cut off discussion, but I'd be ready to make a motion. It seems like this is an improvement over doing nothing and the cost is nothing. So, yep. It's it's already Yeah, we have a slide on the metrics and we went through a roller coaster that I appreciate you saying that it's not but this is not done without

I I guess I do have one question or comment or something and I've tried to make this comment before. I don't I'm not really that interested in synchronization and communication between the lights that never bothered me. Um, what what I would like to see is the concept that Silver Spring traffic is probably 10 cars for every one car that's going on diversity and console. Something like that. 10 to one, 20 to one. It's a substanti Silver Spring traffic is substantially higher. You maybe can tell me, but let's just say it's 10 to one. That generally speaking, that light should be green a lot. And so that doesn't really fit into a schedule. I I've always thought that look, we're putting in a brand new signaling device. We should have sensors. And I I know you you use the word sensor and and so like as long as that light is green a lot

in short. Yes. Okay. So there So it's not turning. It's not going to switch unless a car drives up either from the north or the south. So, and I'm done. Tell it to either go to it routine or you can tell it between this time and this time don't give me give me a cycle unless there's a car waiting. Perfect. There's a default setting that you can tell how long, right? So, for example, road leavarian coming out. It used to be that you're sitting there after practice

and that green will allow three cars. So between the hours of Got it. Okay. 5 5:30 and 3:30 we gave it twice as long. So that's six cars on my So the only other comment I'd like to make is um that that sounds great. If there's no cars on diversity and console, the light does not change. That's great. The the thing that I'd like to make sure is I think our pedestrian beg buttons don't do anything. And I would much prefer they actually do something, right? Unless unless the sensors are going to be able to to

in conclusion, you can't you can't strand c you can't strand pedestrians on the south side of Silver Spring when they want to go to Sendix. They've got to be able to hit the button and not wait for a car to come along. Yes. Am I Yes. Maybe it should be. Yeah, it seems like it. Yes. Well, it wouldn't be. We don't have an inter We don't have a light there now. So, no. But I mean, yeah. Experience this. We need to know. Well, and I think I maybe I'm getting it conflated with the concept that the beg button does not expedite the cycle, right? It just says it doesn't it the only thing the only thing it ever does at midnight you made it.

It so as it stands right now just to clarify how uh Tapco has done Silver Spring is during those peak hours of I want to say like 7 or 8 in the morning till about 6:00 p.m. The push buttons don't work because it's based on the timing sequencing. Yeah. See, I I remember what he said after hours after that. That's why the push buttons are there to give preference to pedestrians pressing it after hours. Correct. But the cycles based on how Mustafa explained it take that preference based on maximum flow with a pre preferential to silver spring to get cars moving. So someone pushing that button would basically interrupt that cycle and then it would would do that. So, but

we could make it any way that we wanted it to based. In conclusion, the timing doesn't work. Yeah, but signal. This is exactly the difference between a connected system and not a connected system. So, you do want to be cautious about that. I mean, you tell me if I'm wrong. It resets the next cycle. Yeah. But yes, but it's not going to communicate with the other signal. So, then all of a sudden, you're going to have cars stopped coming off a lake until that slug clears, right? It's you're off. If you paid $200,000 for a system, they would

Yeah. I mean, I'm not I I think the other thing to do is during the day when people are going to potentially be walking, then we don't have it work on a sensor. Then it goes on a cycle. It and I've walked it all through Silver Spring. I don't think that people are getting annoyed with that cycle. Even if they press the button, it's it's still it still works. People are still able to cross. It's not like you're sitting there for 10 minutes or anything crazy. Well, I mean I all my comment is is that if there are no cars coming north or south going north or south on diversity and console, then how does it trigger for a pedestrian to get across? And is it if it's the big button, great. That's all I wanted. Perfect. Let's make sure that happens the end.

But just know then that you will find times then that you're not you're out of sync with the way that the You know what though? See, I I don't think there's ever a sync. If you have it, if if if Silver Spring always has a green, except when the rare occasion that a north or southbound car triggers it, it's all it's always free. And like guess what? Occasionally there's going to be somebody who wants to cross north or south and then the cycle is going to be off. So like whatever my intention is, please let it let it be green, you know, 90% of the time. Let it be green. That's not currently what's happening.

Well, that you have the cycle. So this would be Well, no, no. Well, we have the cycle on Silver Spring and Marvel. No, all every single one is on. The only one I'm interested right now, the only one that's that's best to talk about is the Bay Ridge one where North and South Bay Ridge not out of traffic. And I think it it it's on a cycle. It doesn't obssection. We don't have any fancy technology to detect that there's cars there, right? So, that's just a cycle. This one's going to be new. And I want the technology to be able to tell us is there should we institute a cycle or not. That's and we don't need to same technology. There's a detection camera at the other end.

There is I know it's been a long meeting but it's really important to understand this software or this technology and what they're proposing is the same that we have throughout the village. There is a camera, right? You guys jump in if I'm wrong. There's a camera during off hours that detects if a car pulls up. During peak hours, it is a cycle. Yeah, I don't like that. And what they're proposing is the same thing. And that So that's what I'm saying. I do not like that that you know, you do not like that at Council and Silver Spring or where do you like it? I would I would say both Bay Ridge and Consul if there are no cars there, there should be no cycle, right?

Forever like all day. I mean, ex with the exception of like left and right or left turners, why would you cycle for nobody? You know, why would you turn it red on Silver Spring if there's no cars going north or south? There's not really a lot of cars. I mean, how many people is this affected? Well, Silver Spring has a lot of vehicular day. He's saying during the day he'd like it to stay green all the time. Doesn't that just make sense that you don't want to cycle a light and stop traffic on Silver Spring when there's no through traffic? Why do you want a light there?

Well, that's a different That's a whole Well, but I mean that's what a light is there for. So clearly we decided to use it then why would you cycle it and that's all Well, I mean I think um how should I say say this? Um, I don't want just a bunch of weeds on Silver Spring. That's not what I want at all. You wouldn't be able to. I mean, Santa Monica is going to have a cycle for sure.

And that's got a left turn. I mean, that's a that's a that's going to choke you down. So, it's you're not going to always have greens. You're going to that that's the that's the traffic cop in that whole So when do I cross the street? There's no cars. When do I cross the street? When it detects when it detects. I mean that that's what he's saying. Rely 100% on the offhour technology of detection at that intersection. Well, I mean that that's why the bank buttons are there for off hours when they actually are are activated.

Yeah. During peak hours, the engineering data dictates the timing. So from 7 a.m. till 700 p.m., there's the data that backs the cadence of when the the signals are going to change from red to green all day. Like that would be different than what we're doing now.

I I I don't think we need to debate this super more in this committee meeting other than it sure seems like that's a good way of doing it. If if and and and I I realize I'm an amateur, so if if there's some specific reason why we want to have red lights when nobody is crossing, okay, you you're the experts. You tell me why. And and so you you can figure that out. Like I I I would I would advocate for, you know, both Bay Ridge and console. Exactly.

That's very true. And I would think that modern technology systems would say, "You're absolutely right. We're going to keep traffic flowing." Now, that it is a little bit different in the fact that this is a residential area. We do want traffic to slow down. You're absolutely right. You wouldn't want five green lights the whole time. So, maybe you do throw a wrench in the plans to stop traffic and slow it down a little bit. Also, your medians that you're designing in there all so having reds between the gaps between the things that's providing a crossing. We don't want to turn it into a speed zone, but console and diversity is kind of a new deal, right? It's a new stoplight. We're adding another one. Also, it's also be triggered for the the amount of aesthetics in and out to.

So, the only argument I'm going to give you if with math is that how many cars you want to stack behind Santa Monica? Because if I'm catching all of the tra if I'm catching everyone traveling west from north from east from south you know you said let them go through as if they weren't there and I'm catching them set. Okay that's where I'm going to have to catch some like like now. Well now that's said I'm going to have 900 more cards.

That's what they said. Oh, because of send extra customers. Well, I mean I can say it's better. We don't need this. This is something that's not hard to change. If that's what I was going to say before, so this is a theoretative thing that pick up the phone and do the phone. I think I have my the technology is there either way or not and maybe console diversity can be a pilot and like let's just see how that works with here's what we're going to we're going to design the thing you're going to say we're have another meeting this way or make it that way those things happen all the time like I said the Bavarian thing

I did I mean I said yeah they should they should Can I just ask you one question based on my past experience how comfortable are you during peak traffic volumes with the camera in Wisconsin winters catching that cross traffic because we had a lot of issues with those cameras getting moved in storms not catching it and an off peak hours not a big deal. People get annoyed and they legally go through the light. They call and we get it fixed but during peak hours a lot more cars. your experience of that you have to aim it properly and it has to stay in the exact right spot.

Yeah. Okay. So, that's just something else that like goes through my mind where we're moving cameras all the time. Maintenance thing might be might be reoccurring every so many months before storms after storms type stuff that plus we're all going to have it on our phones, right? You didn't need to talk about the app that we're all going to have and all the page each of us. Yeah. All of us are going to have the app. $250,000. That's how you get your app. That's with you. Oh, dang it. Yeah.

So, just I guess my only final point is we asked Clark Deetsz and CJ to look into it based on queuing concerns based on our original uh request through the board. I'm just going to say it probably would not work based on our request to Clark deeds if we were doing like the overnight type of synchronization based on detection because it's not able to do proper queuing if you're doing it the other way. Is that correct?

So you might have an issue with your backups which we're trying to solve between Lake Drive and Marorrow if you convert it over to your off peak hours because now it's independent based on detection. So this signal over here is not knowing what's actually going on with this new signal over here and therefore creating a queueing issue by doing these completely independent. Let me remind you guys Lake Drive is a through lake drive, right? So there's people coming lake drive is a heavy spot. So keeping the backing in the queueing off there is why think I'm standing here,

right? Um, so just with that being said, um, I appreciate you conversation because this is the roller coaster we had currently. Um, so it doesn't, you know, doesn't go without us trying. I mean, we were on opposite sides and back on the same side. We remind each other what the problem was. So like, yes, I'm good with, you know, making a motion going forward. It's it's just as long as we revisit this and figure out like the best software. I I just wanted to make sure the technology was there and it is. So, I'm finished. I'm going to go ahead and recommend to the village board to adjust the signal timing alternative at no additional cost as presented. Wait, hold on one second.

Do we want to potentially have a placeholder for the signal timing, the the $45,000 signal timing if in the future we decide we want that we need that or do we want to go back? Would we want to come back completely? If in the future we decide we need it, then that should be a new whole new item, right? That would not be for budget purposes, we could have that as a placeholder as we go through and make sure because this is TID funding that we I'll just make sure Sendex knows that we reserve the right to use the 200,000. Yeah. In the future, I think that would be So that's okay. Okay. Okay. All right. Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt your motion. uh as presented and shown on the attached exhibit. I'll second that.

All right. Okay. All in favor? I. Thank you, CJ. Thank you very much. All right. Um last. No, no, not last. Truck. Uh the hook truck. The hook lift vehicle purchase.

Yes. So, uh, this is one of the, well, one of the first, I'll call it, things from our CIP meetings and adoption of the six-year CIP that we wanted to bring forth to this committee I thought was a little bit more important. is there is a lot more nuances, but I I don't want to rehash everything with the hook lift, but basically it's a multifunctional piece or a vehicle that we're able to do a lot more with one one piece. Instead of doing more modular, this one does plowing and this one does leaf collection and this one does maybe uh yard waste or refues. We're able to really have a four seasons vehicle that you're able to take off one body style and put on another for leaf vacuuming for instance. And then during winter weather, we're able to attach not only a plow but a wing plow. So we're able to do more lane miles, especially with our larger um wider streets. So this is going to be a lot more useful for our DPW operations in the future and we don't have to maintain as many singular pieces of fleet as we start to look at potentially a conversion. So this is our first trial of the hooklift system. Um with that part of our CIP is our our fleet manager Clint did receive three separate quotes going through his analysis. So there is a lot of due diligence done as even on the front end of our CIP to try to get us a very accurate number as far as what this vehicle will cost. Everyone watches the news, everything is turbulent when it comes to tariffs and what that impact is and we've heard it with our own personal lives on those inflation and tariff things. Well, same thing with equipment that we're not immune to those types of challenges, especially trying to narrow in a cost and and enter into contract arrangements. So, the uh basically the spreadsheet that's included within the

memo shows uh the first three columns are what we received previously as part of the CIP with those quotes for the hook lift. The lowest of the three was 588 and that's what was presented as part of our CIP. We reached out back to those vendors and we did see that there was an increase um of that vehicle from around August to now about 2% increase. So we try to really want to put good faith into the CIP process, but want to be honest, especially with equipment nowadays, that's really hard to narrow. I think lesson learned for me is to add a little bit of a buffer into our CIP just to account for any of those unforeseen fluctuations. talking to our mechanic based on lessons learned. He did reach out a third time to those vendors and a lot of those attachments. We feel comfortable with those prices. The tariffs, uh, on the other hand, for the chassis, the top row, uh, we are recommending an additional $15,000 because this truck takes such a long time to build that we probably won't get it until 2027, maybe late 26. that just for approval and budgetary process to add a potential additional $15,000. So that would be about a 4% increase from what was adopted in our CIP to where we stand now. So that's basically going from $588,000 to $614,32. Just as a reminder, as far as vehicle displacement is presented within our CIP, as we start to age out those pieces of equipment and we receive that new hook lift, it the displacement value is $831,000. So, you're still it's a cost-saving measure of $200,000 by going with the hook lift. So, it's still value added not only for the monetary but staff capacity, too. Now, we're able to do more with less staff, especially with leaf collection. So, we're looking for

approval to proceed and sign the necessary agreements to get in line basically for the build of our first hook lift based on the CIP. And we don't pay based on contract price when we sign the contract for it. Um, we do lock in some of those attachments, but not the chassis. Catch up. Yeah, that's the one that's very very uh frustrating. I'll say that. That's the one that we can't lock in. That's where you see that last budget increase is strictly with that chassis that they're not making us. Yes, they will allow us to lock in. And that that's traditional. It's not just a white fishb thing. No, I figured they weren't mad at you. Yeah, we do call them a lot though.

So, for vocabulary, what's the hook liftwhyd? What does that mean? Uh, which page are you? With hydraulics. With hydraulics. Yes. I'm sorry. Yes, with hydraulics. Correct. So that's that's the that's probably the mechanism that makes all the stuff work. Got it. Okay. So it's not part of the chassis. It's So you're getting a leaf a leaf, a dump truck, a salter, briner, and a plow. Correct. Okay. This thing looks so different than what I thought it looked like. So I appreciated the picture. Yeah, that that picture I was

normally picturing something with a hook on the side. So, it's just like if you ever had a a you know a project at your house and you see where they bring off that 30 yard dumpster and it rolls off. Same identical system where it's literally got a hook and it attaches to that dumpster and it can bring it on and it can bring it off very it's very seamless. So, even you know we had the uh November snow, it'd be easy enough just to take one off and put another on and you're in winter operations in an hour or less. And our mechanic feels comfortable working on uh international products. Uh he's the one that specked that, so I sure hope so. I thought we had mostly Peterbuilt stuff.

Uh and he's a new mechanic, but I I believe that we have some in our fleet. But he he is a whiz when it comes to that level of detail and I I trust in his judgment. Anna says yes, we do. She spent a lot of time with the vehicle off fleet this year and doing the inventory. Uh, that may be under the hood. I was gonna say just driving them. No, change the lot of time about the inventory. Okay. All right. Anyone make a motion? Uh, I will. Uh, I move to recommend to the village board to purchase the hook lift vehicle and attachments as shown on the attached memo and exhibits in the amount of $614,32.

Second. Thank you. All in favor? I. None opposed. All right. Last item on the agenda is uh status report project updates. Anyone have qu there anything you want to highlight? Um otherwise does anyone have questions about anything in red or not? I have one question. You just don't add amp Santa Monica intersection traffic seems like a lot of money, doesn't it? 15 one one and a half millies.

Yeah, it's not going to be cheap for and that's just not the signal itself for the Hampton in Santa Monica. We are looking at bumpouts for pedestrian safety within that. So, there's going to be concrete. There's going to be actual civil construction that's going to go into that um that project. And keep in mind that with the DOT, this will be a DOTE project. So the village we're we have finalized um our ranking of a design firm but then after design is done this will actually be bid out by the DOT for their project and they have very strict requirements when going through that analysis and construction. So it seems like a lot but there's a lot that'll be improved upon which is a benefit because that's one of our most unsafe intersections within the village. It's uh 3/4 ours one quarter city of Milwaukee. So think of it as like more of a comprehensive holistic design and the benefit is I think I believe it's a 9010 split. So 90% is through the federal government that goes down to the to WISOT. So we're only on the hook for even less than 10% because 25% of the 10% goes back to the city of Milwaukee. So our actual cost share when you look at all these improvements is pretty minimal. You never know. Might be our first roundabout.

No. There's a couple of quicks on that. So, off that subject, my only question I had, do we learn anything? We've had two snow events. Do we learn anything about our um temporary bon bumpout? Um firsthand experience. Firstand experience. I stood there while they went back and did the ones on Kfax. Yeah. By the high school. And I watched them go pop right back up after they went over them with the Yeah. With the We used our sidewalk machine and then they popped back up. That was with the sidewalk machine that were able to get in between them because we left about what four or five feet Maxine. So you did go in between them.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean he did he went he he went around them and then he went through but as he was coming around you know he hit three of them as he went through but they just popped right back up. It was snow cuz I I drove through it I think before it got cleared on Kfax y and it made a natural bumpout. It was like it's like it's like concrete you know like oh you didn't even know that there was road underneath it so maybe you don't even plow that. So I I asked our crew after it did mess up a lot of parking there. It eliminated a barrier. There's like a wind roll after that because your plow has to navigate back after the the delineators are done that you lose another probably 20 to 30 ft until they can get back on that curve line again.

So I think there's lessons learned, but I think the best thing for us internally is it took out the fear of the delineators by going through it one time. So you're just asking your operation staff, well how did it go? He's like, you know what, not as bad as I thought was the response. And that's part of it that we wanted to encourage them to try and if you hated it, we're removing them. But it just seemed like, you know what, let's just see how it goes. And I think it's just lessons learned is important for our DPW staff as we try to navigate these waters internally, too. And it was pretty quick. I mean, he wasn't there for a real long time.

No, no. Ryan, our foreman, was the one that cleaned him up and he just kind of shrugged and said, "Yep, I'm done." So, it wasn't it wasn't a big deal, I would say, after. But, I think we're going to still learn more. a 6 in event or a 12-in event. It's going to be different each time you manage them.

And it kind of in my mind is a vote for maybe keeping these as opposed to concrete because, you know, the concrete would have been even harder to navigate around and would not have been forgiving. You know, you don't hit the concrete and have it pop right back up. I think if you do concrete it's going to be full curb and then we would have still like a delineator kind of like the city of Milwaukee to know how to navigate around with our plows.

So Maxine will be presenting I believe in January our findings of the temporary uh improvements and potential recommendations just to remind the the committee that the village board uh adopted and and authorized $200,000 to convert temporary improvements into permanent. So, that was kind of on our plate to have that as a a near future discussion item just to recap our pedestrian improvements and maybe get a poll if we want to move one of those forward for permanent. So, that's where we're standing right now as we're collecting the rest of that data.

Yeah, it'd be interesting to consider the ones near the schools to be flexible in that we don't know what the schools, you know, the construction that's going to happen to the schools. So we might maybe we leave it temporary until those plans are finalized. Have many people used because I know there were QR codes on some of them that people could give feedback. Did we get much?

Oh, good. So helpful. Good. Good. Awesome. Good. Yeah. Okay. Anyone else have anything on this? Otherwise, I would entertain a motion to adjurnn. I will move. All right. Have a second. Second. Okay. All in favor? I. Okay. Thank you all very much. Thank you. Why?