City Council - Regular Meeting

I need to clean up.

I'm gonna call the September 8th meeting of the West Des Moines City Council to order and invite you all to stand and join us for the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right, please sign in.

I'm on the virtual session.

Ryan was just getting ready to announce that. We missing somebody still? All right, Finette, you were too quick on the draw again. Those cat-like reflexes. Too quick for the voting machine.

All right. We have four members present in the chambers and one online. Okay.

Ryan, have there been any changes to the agenda?

No changes, Your Honor.

Okay. Can I get a motion to approve the agenda as distributed?

So moved. Seconded. Okay. So moved and seconded. Please vote.

Five yes.

Okay, moving on to item two, citizens forum. Anybody that doesn't have anything on item six or seven that would like to address the council, this is your time. Please come to the podium here, give us your name and address for the record. We ask that you keep it civil and respectful and to five minutes or under. Step on up, yep, you've got the floor.

Is that a projector?

That is a projector there, yeah.

Sweet, okay. All right, my name's Anil. Give us your name and address for the record. Yes, Anil Tezgil, 549 28th Street.

Okay.

You're gonna hear from, I believe, multiple people about this.

Okay, let me say this. Happy to hear from multiple people. I see my friend Blanche sitting here in the front. But if we can just have it so that people aren't repeating, repeating, repeating to be respectful to everybody.

I'm going to read, yes. Okay. I have something to read, that's all. Okay, not a problem. On Monday, July 20th, our neighborhood experienced a catastrophic municipal sewer surcharge. Raw Category 3 sewage backed up through our basement floor drains and plumbing fixtures destroying, for myself, over 800 square feet of finished living space. Approximately six, maybe five other neighboring homes along our stretch were flooded in this exact same manner. So three days later on July 23rd, let's see from right, oh, is that zoomed in?

I got it.

Okay, sweet. All right. Three days later, on July 23rd, the City of West Des Moines Engineering Services delivered this notice directly to our doors. So as you can see on the screen, if you can see it, the city explicitly admitted causation. During reconstruction on Giles Street, a sanitary sewer manhole was being replaced and the excavation was left open overnight. Rain poured directly into that open sanitary main, surcharging the line straight into our homes. Right below that, the city gave every resident official instructions. If you believe your home was affected, please submit a claim through the City of West Des Moines website. That's straight on the bottom of that. We and neighbors as well, we trusted the city's process and submitted our claims immediately through that portal. Instead of accountability, this unfortunately, this is basically when the sewage was coming in, water was coming straight in. So just to give you an idea of exactly what myself and other people were experiencing, throughout this process. My wife and I have a newborn at home. Our living space and nursery overflow remain gutted down to the concrete slab currently and bare studs. What devastates us even more is that special moments with our baby, who was two months old at that specific time, have been completely disrupted and countless items purchased and gifted specifically to care for our child were contaminated, thrown out, and had to be repurchased. Our family has already paid thousands and thousands of dollars out of pocket just to remediate the biohazard. Between the license rebuild estimates and our itemized personal contents loss, our total audited damage exceeds $70,000. And there are other families in our neighborhood carrying similar financial burdens from this exact incident. As you see, I'm young. I can't carry that money around with me. So then, on August 26th, I received a letter from ICAP after submitting this. After 34 days in limbo, we received this formal denial letter from ICAB. It states that the city has no liability. They closed the file and tells us we have to track down the private contractor, MPS Engineers, on our own. The city's own engineering department knew this on day one, who the contractor was, and that the excavation was left open. The city cannot direct residents into a bureaucratic dead end and leave us financially ridden with a $70,000 loss caused by an open city excavation. I'm not asking the city council to write a check tonight. That's not what I'm here for. I'm asking for two specific administrative resolutions. To formally intervene with MPS engineers, their subcontractors, and their insurers so these neighborhood claims are expedited immediately. And also to order the administrative review into why the city staff directed us affected residents to file through ICAP for a month when engineering had already documented a contractor causation on July 23rd. Thank you.

I would just tell you this. First and foremost, what you guys are going through is unacceptable. It's unacceptable.

I agree.

I mean, it should never have happened, right? But it did happen. And it was the fault of the contractor that we hired and that we relied on to do the job. And they made a mistake, right? And so the contractor is liable and should be working to get you guys all reimbursed for what went on. What you had to do through the city is a formal process that everybody has to follow through. So you submit it to our insurance company, ICAP. ICAP looks at it and determines who is liable for what happened to you. They determine the city is not liable, but the contractor is liable. And so this is a formal process that has to go on for then you to work with the contractor to be able to get paid through them. I don't like the process. This is a legal process that we have to go through. You know, we've had conversations about this. I think a number of us would like to see the contractor step up and step up in a much better way and much quicker. So anything that we can do to apply pressure to the contractor to work with the residents to get this resolved, I promise you we will do that. But there is a legal process in place that has to be followed, and that is unfortunately what you are experiencing.

Yeah, and we understand that. It's just that... There's no pressure on them. Especially from our side when we see exactly, for some people they're not even answering phone calls.

Well, I can tell you that.

I don't want to knock on their door.

I can tell you that a number of us are not pleased with how this is being handled at all. At all. And our hands are tied, but we're going to do everything that we can to lean on that contractor to take responsibility and work with you guys to get this solved. It's unacceptable what you're going through. Absolutely unacceptable. So I give you my word on that. You know, of course, the legal process is something that is sometimes can stand in the way and be a little bit difficult. And I think that's what we're all experiencing right now. So to the extent that we can do something to expedite this and lean on the contractor, we'll do that. But I can just tell you that, you know, sometimes legal hands, legal process ties our hands.

I think that's what we're asking for is any pressure of any some sort like. There's no guidance from the city from us. After all this time, it's like, hey, here's an address. MPS engineers.

You've reached out to MPS engineers?

No answer. I called every number on that. No answer. Voicemail, no answer. No callbacks.

Have you been dealing with your insurance company yourself to have them work on your behalf to...

We have... Sorry, name and address. I'm sorry, Beth. My mom, Blanche Jordan, lives at the bottom of the hill. I think her house was at the T where most of this came up. It was extensive.

Sure. We have... Beth, give us your name and address again.

Beth, C.D. I'm speaking for Blanche. She's at 2801 Meadow Lane. 2801 Meadow Lane. Okay. MPS has... effectively denied responsibility and has said they're not responsible, their insurance is not responsible, that Dirt Works is responsible, and we cannot get a claim number or any response from Dirt Works. So we're left in limbo. We are exhausting everything. Some people's insurance for this kind of backup endorsement was $5,000. It's five times that, just the remediation. That's not personal property. That's not the mechanicals in the basements that got destroyed to even replace water heaters, washers, and dryers. And so my mom has gone, what is it, six weeks now? Without a washer and dryer in her home.

Yeah, and I've known Blanche a long time. She contacted me right away. I had a conversation with her. I reached out to Brian Hemisteth, our engineer who's sitting in the back, asked him to contact her. He did that. Tim Stiles, our finance director, I think, had a conversation with With Holmes Murphy and has been we've all been trying to work on behalf of the residents to try to get a resolution to this So I can assure you it's it's not for lack of trying And we will continue to do what we can in that regard.

I know it's extremely frustrating Brian, Brian, can you come forward please because I've got a question for you No city staff As you're coming up. So is our contract with MPS Engineering or is it with Dirt Works? Brian Hemes says City Engineer.

Our contract's with MPS Engineers. So they're liable for it? Yeah. No, no, no.

Hang on a minute. Hang on a minute. Have a seat. Hang on a minute. So if our contract is with MPS and one of their subcontractors screwed up, it still falls on MPS. MPS then has to go after Dirt Works to subrogate it. It's not up to the residents to try to subrogate on their own. And a lot of these residents, their insurance has been maxed out and they're still not made whole. So how are we not... Fighting with MPS.

I've made multiple contacts with DSM Dirtworks insurance company.

MPS. Why aren't we dealing with MPS? That's our contract.

Because DSM Dirtworks has took liability for it. They're the ones that aren't liable.

She just said that they're denying the responsibility. Hold on. Come forward. Yes, please.

I am a resident of Western Wayne, also 678 63rd Street.

I missed your first name. Say it again, please.

Kelly Curtin.

Kelly Curtin. Okay.

I'm also a State Farm agent. So on one side, I've been helping her through this claim. If I could give a recommendation. So it's very similar to what you have going on to where... It's language and legal. So they received a letter from West Des Moines saying that this is declined. And they're like, this is your fault. Legally, the city of West Des Moines is not liable. You guys subcontracted MPS Engineering. MPS Engineering subcontracted Dirt Works right here.

Technically, we hired MPS Engineering. We hired them.

What you're saying is correct. You hired MPS, so now what's going on on the side is a liability investigation. So MPS can say, it wasn't our worker, it was Dirt Works. Let's see your policy. And that's what's happening. My recommendation for the city, re-evaluate your subcontractor levels. How far out can you keep going? So you hired MPS Engineering under the impression they're gonna come in and do the city work. How do you know that MPS didn't hire someone that doesn't have insurance? They subcontracted Dirt Works, not the city.

So liability is on. I don't think this is a city. But that's what I'm saying.

I think it's state law that we're following. Right, but again, to me.

Law is different from insurance. Legal is completely separate. So that's where, is there.

Hold on, hold on. We're not gonna have people yelling stuff from the back row. So if you wanna come up, give us your name and address for the record. I'm sorry, we try to keep an orderly meeting running here.

My first recommendation was gonna be regardless everyone review your coverages because we're all residents so whether your home policy has this or not if you're in this predicament you heard 70,000 she is well over 70,000 as well we're gonna be in a predicament that we're looking for money the second recommendation you have to know how far out if you're hiring a company do they have can they hire someone else See how that's extending the limit?

And they do. They've got subs upon subs upon subs.

And so legally, right now where we're at, they have two claims open with Dirt Works, and you see there's two different companies. There's Selective, and then there's this Axe. They're investigating right now to see what line and if there's coverage. And that's where when people say go to insurance, there is a legal process. And so flashback, this is since July 20th. And what I can tell you is when you have numbers like this, phone numbers and claims, more pressure you put on, they listen. Sometimes it's not their fault. This person didn't get the claim until August 18th, almost 30 days after. So that's what I would just say. I would highly recommend not only re-evaluating your own personal coverages, because this is a nightmare, but also... If you're having a subcontractor into your house doing any sort of work, check their insurance. Because if Dirt Works has a crappy policy, these people, it's going to be, it'll be turning into probably a civil battle.

Here's what I would like to say. And I'm only going to say two things quick. Barabi, like, if I'm you, I'm sending a letter. To MPS and Dirt Works and saying, we need to get this going. We need to get some people on it. Second thing is these processes do take a long time. This is an excess and surplus policy, right? So they're going to fight over who's going to have to pay.

They just hired an environmental consultant to review.

Sure they did.

And I said, I'm going to get you everything you need, pictures and stuff, to speed it up.

But AXA is going to be fighting with Indian Harbor, who I've never heard of.

Bingo.

And they're going to be fighting with Selective.

And it's a battle of... At the end of the day, everybody's looking for money because inflation, whether it is injuries or the cost of your stuff, you want to be back to where you were before it happened. People are looking for money. So it's going to be the insurance or government. Someone's got it because they're expensive.

But to set the right expectation, this claim could take years. And that's not all. I'm not trying to give you bad news. It's how these things work. It's not like a state farm homeowner's policy. They pay you next week, right? This is a different deal.

That's the other thing, too, to keep in mind, because the litigation is two years. The statute of limitation in Iowa is two years. So that means two years they can go back and forth and say, nope, we need more proof. Nope. And they go back and forth.

I'd be higher in council.

And that's the other thing too, is we have paid out, but there's limits. And to put it into perspective, we've paid out on Blanche per limits, and that is just cleanup. So a furnace cleanup, drain cleaning, It was the busiest time in Des Moines. They had the Junior Olympics and something else, and for her to stay in a place because her home was inhabitable was $9,000. There wasn't a hotel you could, like, she, and pardon, but her age, she checked into a hotel two nights, the next day I'm like, you're what hotel? I mean, like, this is a big, it takes a lot. So if you back and think about all the events, and family time that you've had since July 20th, now picture your whole house is upside down and you're battling and you're going through layers. Thank you for listening. I'm passionate about this.

Yeah, no, we appreciate you being here. I mean, I don't think this is something that we're gonna solve tonight sitting on the dais in a council meeting, but really appreciate the perspective of the residents and what they've gone through. I can't even imagine what they've gone through, what they're going through. It's unacceptable. And so we will do whatever we can on the city front to put the pressure on. But, of course, we're caught here, as you can see, in a legal battle and state law governing how everything happens and everything else.

The only other thing that I would add, and this is as personally as a Western Wind resident, the thing that makes me nervous is she is having ongoing. So, like, this storm, it makes me nervous. It makes her nervous.

Sure.

There's stuff still coming up through her basement, like poop, pee, everything you could imagine. Yeah. And I'm like, that terrifies me because if we all share a same system.

How many people are impacted?

I mean, that I know of six to eight.

Yeah.

If this happens to my block, like, I mean, think about.

I know what I'd be doing. I'd be hiring legal counsel and dumping a 40 pound bag of sack concrete in the floor.

All right, who else would like to address the council on this issue while we're dealing with this issue? Again, five minutes. Give us your name and address.

Thank you for your expertise. My name is Troy Murphy. I'm at 2805 Meadow Lane. A little extra hard on us. I'm a veteran. My wife has got PSDT. She doesn't handle these things very well. So it's been exceptionally hard. We've lost antiques that belonged to her grandparents. I've lost awards given to me by four different presidents. Just in case there's some on each side of the aisle, there's Republicans and Democrats. Thank you for your service. That can't be replaced. In 26 years, we owned that home on Meadow Lane and never had a drop of water in our basement until this issue. Like the young lady said, hotels were booked. We have a dog and try and get a hotel to take a dog. If you do find one, the rate's not very reasonable, but you got to pay it. And it's disappointing. I'm going to go home and tell my wife that this could take a year. I'm telling you this is not going to go over very well with my wife. And, you know, there's, I get it, this happened, okay? But anything that we can do to speed up the process, to get these people to take care of. I've also contacted the city's insurance company, and my wife has contacted them to follow up, and she said, I told your husband that we weren't gonna cover it because we weren't liable, and you'll be getting a letter in the mail. Never got that letter. I've contacted the contractor's insurance company, crickets. I've left several voicemail messages. they don't want to talk, evidently. So, just like I said, thank you for your support, Kevin. I'd like to add that Kevin's called me on his busy days. I know he's got another job besides this one, but he's been supportive, and I know he wants to see an end to this as well. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much.

All right, Blanche, come on up and give us your name and address for the record. I'm just going to add to the fact that this is the second time this has happened in our area. Yeah, I remember when it happened to you the first time. Yes. And there are some good things that have come out of it. Kelly has worked tirelessly for all of us because she did the groundwork and found some of the people that we've talked to. Some of them weren't very nice. They made some very condescending remarks, like, why are you living there? And I'm not going to say the next one. Janine kind of wrote something for me to say, my daughter. I think she was afraid I might use the wrong expletives. And so the other good thing is the mitigation team that came in and cleaned up, they were wonderful. Nice workers, efficient, very respectful. And the third thing, my daughters were very helpful to me. They both took four days of their vacation.

So, thank you. Well, I'm sorry to all of you for going through this. This is not something you should be going through.

That's okay.

We got her down. We know who she is.

We know where she lives.

She can run, but she can't hide.

So what can we do legally to put the pressure on? Because I know it's peanuts compared to what you guys are going through, but it took me two months to get progressive insurance to finally settle and admit that their client was at fault for an accident that my son had on July 7th. I just got that word today. So I know insurance companies drag their feet, and I think it's because the longer they drag their feet, the longer they get to hold onto their money and let it collect interest. But this is ridiculous. So what can we do? Because again, Brian, our contract was with MPS. I don't care who they hired. Our contract was with MPS. So for Robbie and Tom, there's got to be a way that we can go after MPS and make them responsible for this and then let them subrogate and fight this out for two years with Dirtworks insurance companies. Because again, if we got multiple insurance companies dealing with this thing, I'm not sure two years is going to cover it. We might be dealing with this thing in three or four. I'm not sure why NPS gets off the hook.

I'm not sure why they get off the hook. Me either. Look, we're all concerned. We're not going to be able to solve this tonight. We're going to work with our legal team. Our legal team is going to research this and figure out what we can do to put the pressure on to try to get a resolution to this thing. And it's obviously a complex legal issue that we're dealing with that we want to see resolution right away. But we're not going to, you know, be able to figure this out and free wheel tonight up on the dais to come up with a solution.

One last thing I want to add on a question is you had said that your mom is still, that Blanche is still having residual effect from this. Brian, why would that be? Why would we still be getting sewage coming up from basement drains now when clearly there was a problem two months ago? Why hasn't that been rectified? You probably can't answer that question, but you can give me that answer tomorrow because that's crazy. That's the first I've heard of it. So do you have Blanche's phone number?

Uh-huh.

Okay. Talk with her tonight or tomorrow. I'm Brian. I'm the city engineer.

Brian, I've had Brian reach out to you a couple times. Tim's reached out to you.

But give her a call tomorrow and let's get the information on this and find out exactly what's going on because this should not be happening now. It shouldn't be happening. You're correct. It shouldn't happen the first time, but it sure as heck shouldn't be happening now. All right, Councilwoman Elliott.

We're going to move on unless somebody else wants to come up from the neighborhood and say something. You guys were looking at saying something. Then we're going to go to flock camera. Let's let Councilwoman Elliott say something, then you come on up, and then we'll move over to flock.

I'll keep it very short. I thank each and every last one of you residents for coming here. Because a lot of times when there is an issue, but you can look at people face-to-face, eye-to-eye. You can see their pain. You can see their anguish. You can see their hurt. We get it. We feel it. So I think each and every last one of you. The only thing that I would add from lessons learned, because this is horrible what you guys are going through. It's absolutely horrible. But there should be a lesson learned. And the lesson learned is anytime we're dealing with a contractor and they subcontract, we need to make sure I's are dotted and T's are crossed in the event that something happens. So that's what I would like to see, us evaluate and put in our master contracts. If you subcontract, we need to know X, Y, and Z, and then it'll be in writing. So that's the request that I have that we look into whenever we contract and they subcontract, we need to address to account for that so that we're not in this situation.

We'll take a look at that. Barabi and the legal team will take a look at it. But, you know, we're dealing with state law as well as far as, you know, contractors, subcontractors, liability and what can and cannot be done. And so we'll take a look at that and see if there's anything we can do to address what you're talking about. I think that makes a lot of sense. My guess is going to be that state law won't allow that.

Well, I'm pretty confident that we already have a list of their subcontractors because I know when I was at Waterworks, Anytime we had a project, the general contractor that we hired, then they had to give us a list of all of their subcontractors. I'm quite certain we're already doing that. It's just if you've got this level of insurance bureaucracy that's dragging this thing on. Yeah.

But that's not what I was referring to. What I am referring to is whenever we contract with someone and they subcontract, there needs to be some legal definition in whenever they subcontract. We may have a list. which is great, but that's not making us be more proactive in lessons learned. Lessons learned is we've got to go after that secondary contractor to make sure that the first contractor has everything addressed in the event that something occurs.

And again, I'm not trying to belabor this, but again, we've got one contract when we put this out for bids, and that was with MPS Engineering. So to have what you're asking for might be great, but we can't go after Dirt Works because we don't have a contract with them. Their contract is with MPS. MPS's contract is with us. And that's why I'm saying MPS, in my opinion, is 110% responsible for this because they're responsible for their subcontractors.

Hold on, hold on, hold on. If you've got to say something, come on up to the microphone, give us your name and address for the record, then let's say it. We're not in Mayfield here.

Kelly Curtin, 678 63rd Street. Okay, hold on, I lost my train of thought. What I think you're both saying, though, is what if you amended it to say, we hired MPS, should you use a subcontractor, we need to see a certificate of insurance with a minimum of $2 million liability.

So inflation... Guys, you're dealing with state law. We're trying to freewheel here on the dais. There's state law in effect and everything else that...

I'm not saying it's a solution. What I'm saying is... I mean, I love it.

Let's go with it. But I don't think it's going to work with state law. We've got a legal team that's going to take a look at all this stuff. We understand. This is very serious. We're taking it very serious. We understand what you guys are all going through. Love the suggestions. We'll look at it. But again, we've got a framework in place that is state law, and we've got to operate within the bounds of state law. And I'm pretty sure that state law dictates how this all works, because I've worked up at the state capitol a number of years and dealt with this kind of information before. So I love all the creativity, but if state law doesn't allow that kind of thing, we're not going to be able to do it. And there's a group called master builders who will come after us and say, you can't do that. and their attorneys. So we've got a great group of attorneys that work for us. Barabi is one of them. He will take a look at this. We will do what we can to put the pressure on to try to get a result for you guys. We will do everything we can within the law, within the confines of the law that's set up for us to try to get a resolution to this for you all. I promise you that. But we're not going to solve it tonight. We've heard what we need to hear. We understand everything that's going on. We sympathize. We empathize. It sucks, okay? It sucks. I've talked to Blanche a number of times. I feel horrible. This is her second time with something like this. So we're going to try to work to get a resolution. It's not going to come tonight. Okay, go ahead and then Councilman Hudson would like to chime in as well.

Steve Anderson, 2710 Meadow Lane. I've been a resident in that home since 2003. So this is the second time as well that I've experienced. The first time also was a contractor's issue when the culvert was getting replaced there on 28th and Meadow Lane. And I woke up to just the rotten smell. And I thought, man, did my dogs poop in their kennel or what? What's transpired, right? And then it's like, well, they didn't do that. So I went downstairs. As soon as I hit the bottom of the steps, it's like squish, squish, squish, right? Well, they had packed a bunch of rock or something in there. And then, you know, West Des Moines had this vacuum truck trying to suck it all out, trying to get it all right, just kind of like we're trying to get it right now, right? But I don't – well, I guess the thing is state law, this or that. So my thing would be is – I'm in transportation. I'm a 1099 employee for a third-party logistics, and the third-party logistics has 50 different carriers that I've got to deal with insurance as well, right? But when I take a job, I've got to basically be able to say they want a certificate, like to be a certificate holder, right? Sure. So I would guess that the city of Des Moines is a certificate holder of MPS's insurance, right? And I think that right there is where it all starts.

Sure, but what they're going to say is that we're not liable. It's not us that did the work. MPS Insurance is liable. It's just Dirt Works that did the job. They're the ones that are liable, not MPS.

So it's going to go on. And so there again, it's like a third party. So now it's going to go down to the carrier. And I totally understand because they want you not to direct it because all of a sudden, you know, you forget about it and it's gone bad. you know 180 days and you didn't do nothing and hey we're going to close this real fast right and I mean it happens in the transportation industry all the time and people try to profit on loss and you can't profit on loss either you know but I think you know just I think what we're wanting is whoever with MPS gave the city of West Des Moines that certificate holder we want them to say hey you know just like I'm with priority one I'm sorry you know that your guys's filters got damaged and that shipment's completely ruined But I'm going to work my best with the carrier to make sure that it's done. Right. And I think somebody with MPS needs to do that to work with dirt works and with the carrier there. Well, that's what the city would be kind of working with MPS.

And I would think the same thing of MPS. I don't disagree with you at all.

And so that's all I have. And, you know, I thank you guys for your ears. You know, thanks for being here and appreciate the hard work.

Sorry for what you're going through.

Hey, all right.

All right, come on up. Anil Tezgal, 549 20th Street. I appreciate the deliberations and trying to understand more. I really, yeah, as you said, I appreciate the ears listening to us. But we want communication. I know you guys are talking. I think everyone... wants communication on what you guys want to do, all these ideas that you're bringing out. Maybe you want, you know, whatever you have for like the insurance. Like we just, and I don't even know if you guys have our contact information. I don't even know if you know who I actually am, you know, dealing with this situation. So we want communication. And I mean, that's it. And unfortunately, dealing with tax dollars on some of these projects, you have to take the lowest bidder. I get it. I worked at the airport. I know how that works. You've got to take the lowest bidder, but this is unfortunately the reality of it.

It's the lowest responsive and responsible bidder. But, yes, that is also state law, and that's who we are bound to go with, and hence MPS.

Just ask her for communication. I don't know how you guys are going to do that tonight or talk amongst each other or afterwards if you need our information. I'm going to put this over by the door. Appreciate it.

Everybody, whether you think we've got your information or not, please, everybody sign it. Yes. Well, so it's legible, right? Name, address, phone number, email, and all that so that we can stay in touch, please. Appreciate it. Thank you. All right. Councilman Hudson.

Yeah, I didn't... There's nothing else I can really add, obviously. I'm incredibly sorry. This is absolutely awful. But the one thing I will add that is new, since the city does have a lot of future contracting work, I mean, that is where I would ask the engineering department for the lowest responsible and... responsive and responsible bid. If there are actions being taken that really doesn't make our residents seem safe with folks that we're contracting with, I would love us to take a harder look at those kind of things. And I do want to shout out to Kelly Curtin who is, I've heard praise for her, I know Kelly, and I have no doubt that she is just working so hard to do everything she possibly can. So I just want to say thank you for your hard work for the fine folks that are dealing with just absolute, a terrible situation, so.

You make a good point. To the extent that we can take this into account when putting out additional bids, I think we need to take that into account. But again, we've got to operate within the state law and make sure that we're abiding by that. But that's a point well taken, Councilman.

We do have a list with everybody's name and contact information. The CFO, Tim Stiles, has that. I guess if there's any question about that. Sure. Come on up.

Let's do that.

Come on up Tim Tim Stiles finance director for the city I did get from our insurance company because these are folks that have had dealings with our insurance I got a list of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, about 12 different residents. I can read them, and if your name's on this list, it means I've got your address, email, phone number through our insurance. That might save some time.

Go ahead and run through the names.

Blanche, and if I butcher people's names, I apologize. Blanche Reardon, Troy Murphy, Caleb Foshee, Robert and Pat McElderry, Anil and Kelsey Tesgal, Richard Lowe, Michael Butker, Eric Long, Doran Hill, Steven Anderson, Ricky Malone, and Antoinette Miller. And Antoinette Miller and Caleb Foshee, I believe there's a renter and an owner, so it's the same address.

Okay, anybody who's here tonight whose name was not read? Raise your hand. No? Well, here for the claim. We're here for that. We're getting to you, I promise, I promise. We're getting to you. Okay, so we've got everybody, right? We've got everybody on the list. We will be in touch. We will work through our legal department, our finance department, Tim Stiles, maybe even our engineering department, but it probably will mostly come through Barabi's department, the legal department. So we will do everything we can, I promise you. to try to get a resolution to this thing we will give it everything we have. Come on up Blanche if you want to say something else come on up. So the question is the timeline do we have a timeline unfortunately I think the answer to that question I can probably answer and it's no.

So we do not have a timeline? I don't think we do.

With anything like this, we typically don't have a timeline.

So basically we're still in limbo?

Yes. We're going to do everything we can to expedite this, to move it forward, to try to get a resolution to it. That's all we can promise. And we've been doing that from the get-go. I know Kevin's had conversations. I've had conversations. We've had... two, three different staff members that have reached out on your behalf and have reached out to you to try to help you through this, of course, to no avail. But we're doing everything we can on the city front. It's just there's a web of legal that we've got to work through, and it's just not easy. So Kevin will be our contact, basically. That's fine. it will probably be our legal department more so but absolutely you can contact Kevin or any one of us would be happy to help but probably make the most sense if we went through a single point of contact our legal department either legal or engineering I'm not sure who somebody from the city will be in touch with you

All right, my mic's not on. Somebody from the city staff will be in touch with you. If you've got any questions, feel free to call me. Okay. You got my number.

All right, Chief Lew wants to come up and shed some light on this subject.

No. Oh, no. Shed some light on the weather. You're going to hear storm sirens.

Okay.

Storm sirens are going off because we have 70 mile an hour sustained winds right now. So that's one of the criteria for the storm siren.

Okay.

they will be the ones north of us. So you may not hear them right here, but just in case, Wanda.

All right. Thank you for keeping us all in the know, keeping us all safe, Chief. All right. All right. With that, is anybody else on this issue or... We're gonna move on to another issue anybody for citizens forum that wants to address the council on anything else Come on up. Give your name and address for the record five minutes or less civil and respectful You know the drill you've been here before and I've got you timed My name is Jonathan Albert and I am at one two seven zero title Street and Des Moines.

Okay, I Mayor Trimble and councilmembers, my name is Jonathan Auberg. I run the Des Moines Sentinel, an independent public records and government accountability project. I want to begin with a point of agreement. FLOC may provide useful investigative leads. My question tonight is whether West Des Moines has defined and documented the controls needed to evaluate its use. The need for a defined review is visible in the city's own public data. In West Des Moines search audit snapshot I preserved on August 1st, 251 out of 340 search rows, 73.8% had a blank public reason field. For comparison, Waukee's August 1st export had 28 searches and zero blank reason fields. Continuing a five snapshot series with no blanks, That comparison concerns public documentation, not whether any West Des Moines officer violated policy. I am not saying those searches were improper. A blank field does not establish misconduct or tell us whether an internal justification exists. The record does not resolve whether the gap arises at entry, export, or public display. But that uncertainty is itself a public auditability gap. The portal says all system access requires a valid reason. In most rows in that snapshot, the public could not see one. On August 27th, Timothy Tucker reported that Mayor Trimble had written that West Des Moines conducts monthly misuse audits. has had no major issues and would reconsider FLOC if an issue arose. Until the original correspondence is available, I treat that account as a lead. In March, Mayor Trimble told this council that outside agency requests are kept on file for full accountability and that system activity is logged and auditable. That assurance should apply to the city's own review process too. After my April 20th testimony, Mayor Trimble referred FOC to the Public Safety Subcommittee and directed staff to invite me. The June 5th agenda listed FOC cameras, Hudson, but the meeting is difficult to follow online. The public archive has no readily available minutes, presentation, or recording explaining the discussion or conclusion. Residents should not need a Chapter 22 request to learn the outcome of a publicly noticed review of a citywide surveillance system. The proposed August 17 minutes now record council member Elliott suggesting that police re-examine flock data use policies with council members Hudson and McKinney supporting another look at policy or procedure. The city can clarify the record directly. I ask you to answer three questions. First, what was discussed and concluded under the June 5th FOC agenda item? Will that record be posted and has the further review policy reflected in the August 17th minutes been formally assigned and scheduled? Second, What does a monthly FLOC audit examine? Does it produce a written checklist, exemption report, memorandum, or other finding? Does it test whether a reason was recorded internally? Third, where in the process does the public reason field become blank? At entry, in the export, or in the public display? Does the city treat that condition as an audit exception? And what objective condition would trigger corrective action or reconsideration? An audit log and an audit are different things. If West Des Moines is conducting monthly supervisory audits, publishing the procedure and aggregate findings with lawful redactions, would let residents evaluate that safeguard against evidence. Flock itself recognizes reputation as a contractual interest. Urbandale's 2023 agreement lets Flock treat public disrepute or conduct it reasonably judges reflects on, am I out of time?

You've got four seconds left.

Okay, well.

Do the buzzer here.

I got pretty close anyway, so thank you, counsel.

Yeah, no, Judge, we appreciate you being here. That was very in the weeds.

I don't know that I'm the man to answer those questions

on the dais because that was very down deep into the system details and how that all functions I think that you know we can we can get you the answers to those questions and bring those back I would tell you that as far as any of our City Council subcommittees go we always keep minutes of those of those meetings and those will be out and and I will tell you this Everything that we do up here is for our citizens. We take privacy matters very serious in the city of West Des Moines, very serious. And we take protection of citizens' data very serious here as well. Every time you've come up here, it has not been for naught, okay? We're hearing you, we hear what you're saying, we understand you've got a concern. you know, on the other side of things, I feel very comfortable that we've got proper protocols in place to make sure that the system isn't misused and that we haven't had that occur to this point. Do I think, to Councilwoman Elliott's point at the last meeting, which I missed, that we could always review the policy and look to tighten it down and do the best we can to make sure that we are protecting our residents and their data and their privacy 100%. So let's do that, let's tighten it down even further. But I will also tell you that I got a phone call from Representative Rob Johnson a year ago. And Rob asked if I would join them in a press conference for a West Des Moines family who had their 13-year-old daughter abducted, okay? Of course I joined. It was me, Rob Johnson, there was Lauren Campbell there from Windsor Heights, I think Councilwoman at the time, Renee Hardman was there, the media was all there, the family was there. I've never seen a family so distraught. 13-year-old girl, gone. Can't find her anywhere. Come to find out she had been on Roblox, which I know that they're looking to put down controls on that as well. She was abducted by a 37-year-old, 13-year-old girl, abducted by a 37-year-old man. Found her in Tennessee. He had gotten as far as Tennessee. But for the flock camera, I'm not sure they would have gotten their little girl back. So as serious as we take your data and your privacy, and we take it serious, we take public safety very serious as well. There is nothing more important than the safety of the public. that were elected to represent. We would not see that girl today but for those flock cameras. So we'll take a look at our protocols and our procedures in place. We'll drill down as tightly as we can, I can assure you of that. But there already are all kinds of procedures in place. We've only got a handful of officers that have access to it. Each one of them have their own sign on and their own password. We can see what they have searched in there. we will do monthly audits we will take a look at those audits and determine whether or not there they're using the system appropriately if they're not in cases in other states where they haven't an internal audit has found those police officers swiftly and has fired them. Gotten rid of them okay. And we will be doing the same thing. This is very serious. But Flock has also taken some technology upgrades as well that are going to be put in place. And I think at the end of the year, you're not going to be able to do a search unless you tie it to a criminal database, to a criminal record. You can't even do the search. So if you don't have a criminal record, we can't search on Jonathan Augsburg. We can't. unless you're suspected in some kind of a crime and a criminal file exists. When the camera takes a picture of your car and your license plate, that's all that's with it. It doesn't say Jonathan Auberg, Ford, Bronco. It doesn't say that. If somebody were to hack the system and try to get your data, they can't. They'd have to hack another system to do that. So we've got a lot of controls in place right now. I know a lot of people hate these cameras, but we've got a lot of controls in place. We're taking this very seriously. We're going to drill down even further for you, okay?

Am I allowed to respond to that? Sure. Okay. So what I think you're doing is you're taking cherry-picked cases and you're trying to justify... I mean, it doesn't explain it. It does not explain why aren't they putting in a reason in the system? That's what I'm asking.

Why aren't they putting in what?

A reason for conducting a search. That's the question. I'm not asking for your shining example.

You're getting very into the weeds as if you're the designer of the flock system. I can't answer those questions. If we want Chief Bellamy to come up and maybe he can answer some of the specifics.

I feel like the police should go more on the record about some of these things. It feels like it's a one-way side. What is the police saying about this?

Go more on the record? Yeah. In a criminal investigation?

No, like an account, like at the podium. All right, well, Chief Bellamy's coming up.

He'll answer any questions. He'll answer any of those questions he can.

I have the June 5th meeting minutes where we went through them all. They've been published, so we can have staff send those to you. You're from Des Moines, though, right?

Sure, yeah.

Why are you concerned about flock cameras in West Des Moines? Shouldn't you be down?

I used to live here. I was a constituent here. It impacted me. You sent my data to a thousand different agencies, the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Do you have a cell phone in your pocket?

No, I don't. Okay, you sent my data to a thousand different agencies. Was I suspected of a crime? Yes or no? No, I was not. Yet your flock cameras are sending my data and you didn't even amend your agreement. At least Urbandale amended their agreement. Look at this. That's not the agreement, but I go to other city councils too. I went to Waukee City Council. Of course, I went to yours, Urbandale too.

So I'm just asking. What evidence, I'm sorry, what evidence do you have that we sent your data to somebody else?

Your public transparency portal says this. You share the data with a thousand different agencies. Only if they go looking for you.

Did you commit a crime? What crime did you commit?

I made my case and...

I'm just wondering what crime you committed that we flagged your license plate.

So are you arguing that...

I'm wondering what crime you committed that we flagged your plate.

I don't think I did. But that doesn't mean you're not capturing the data, Mayor Trimble.

The pictures are being taken, but nobody's taking a look at your license plate unless you've committed a crime.

You are capturing the data whether any crime is suspected or not. Is that true or false?

The data is being captured, but nobody's taking a look at your car and your plate unless you've committed a crime.

But the data's being captured. And there's no name associated with it.

Jonathan, you said that we sent it to a thousand different agencies, the FBI and I don't know who else. Your agreement allows you to share it with them. It would if you had committed a crime.

I don't want to argue about it. There's no argument. I want to finish arguing. I want to wrap it up.

Wrap it up and we're going to have Chief Bellamy to respond. Jonathan.

What's that?

Wrap it up, and then we're going to have Chief Bellamy respond to some of the things you brought up. You want to wrap it up or not? I would.

No, I did wrap it up.

Okay. All right. Chief. Chief, come on up and see if you can answer some of those questions.

Chief, I would. If he has some questions, we should get those answers to the questions. 100%. So I think if we shine a flashlight to make sure that everyone is more familiar with the exact process, I would be absolutely supportive of that. But by all means, share more and address what Jonathan was chatting about. Thank you, Chief.

Yes, sir. Craig Bellamy, Chief of Police for West Des Moines. We... see every search because every username that logs in is tracked. So anytime an officer gets into the system, we see what that officer searched and it is tagged to them. So if we see anything that is irregular, then we can track that back to that individual officer. Yes, you are correct. In the past, we did not put specific reasons for each search, but each search was categorically tagged and kept so that we could tell what that officer was doing in the system. We are now currently adding an incident number to every search so that you can see what specifically drove that officer to look for that plate information. Flock has added some new features, new security features that are coming online that give us additional capabilities to audit the system and look at usage and track anything that is done incorrectly. The counsel is very correct. We take that very seriously. This system is regulated just like other systems that track criminal history and personal information on people that have been arrested. Officers have that same level of security requirement to access those systems and are held accountable at the same level. As the mayor stated, when officers are found to the audits that these police agencies are done, they are usually summarily terminated and charged federally. because it's a federal crime to misuse those databases. We don't ever want to do anything to harm an individual. The data is kept for a certain period of time and deleted. The only time we access it is if there is a need, a public safety need, that lets us get into that system to use it. And I know there's a lot of concern over... what other agencies do, but there is enough information going around the country right now. A lot of people, and maybe there are some other agencies that didn't do a good job at auditing or keeping track of what was being done, but everybody is stepping up to the plate and realizing what needs to be corrected. We can always do better, and we will continue to look at the system and how we use it and find better ways to regulate it and make sure that we do not have anybody that misuses it. But ultimately, the goal is to save lives. And as the mayor said, it has, and it has done it hundreds of times across the country. And I would just say, if that was your daughter, would you want this in place as a tool to help us save somebody's life? And I would say, for me, yes. So we will always look to do better. I can promise you that. Thank you.

All right. Thank you so much, Chief. Appreciate it. And Jonathan, we'll keep working to drill down and make sure that we're doing everything we can to keep the data private, to make sure that there are protections in place. I promise you that. We care deeply about that. So if you have any other questions, feel free to email them. We will get your responses back on that. Okay, anybody else for Citizens Forum? I can't believe we're on item two only. A lot of folks. A lot of people.

A lot of conversations.

All right, anybody else for Citizens Forum in the chambers before I go online? Okay, is there anybody online for Citizens Forum? Please hit star six to unmute yourself if somebody is online and would like to address the council. All right. We're going to move on. Citizens Forum is closed. Item 3, Mayor-Council Manager Report, Other Entities Update. We're going to start with Item 3A. I'm going to ask that we do an expedited, as expedited as we possibly can, review of our citizen survey. We've got Dawn Davis here with the ETC Institute. I think she's going to be probably joining us online with that.

Yep, she's getting herself pulled up right now.

Good evening. Can you all hear me and see my presentation okay?

Yes.

Okay, great. Well, good evening. I'm Dawn Davis with the ETC Institute, and we conducted the 2026 Community Survey over the summer. I'll go through the agenda. We'll discuss the purpose, the methodology of the survey. I'll tell you about the bottom line up front, major findings, a summary, and I'll take questions afterward. So the purpose of this survey was to objectively assess resident satisfaction with the delivery of city services, measure trends from previous surveys, compare the city's performance to other communities, and help determine priorities for the community. The 2026 survey was the 12th one that ETC has conducted for the city, and it included many of the same questions that were asked in previous years. It was conducted by mail and online, and each survey took approximately 15 to 20 minutes to complete. The goal was 400 completed surveys, and we actually received 431 completed surveys from a random sample of residents. It had a margin of error of plus or minus 4.7% overall at the 95% confidence level. We had a good representation by location throughout the city of Des Moines.

West Des Moines.

Residents have a very positive perception of the city. 94% are satisfied with the quality of life in the city. Only 1% are dissatisfied. And 93% are satisfied with the overall quality of services provided by the city, and only 1% are dissatisfied. When we look at benchmarks, satisfaction with city service is much higher in West Des Moines than other communities. The city rate of 50 percent above the U.S. average and the overall quality of city services and the city rate is significantly higher than the U.S. average 5 percent or more above in all 43 areas that were compared. The overall priorities for improvement over the next two years overall quality of city water services overall enforcement of code violations and overall traffic flow management in the city. Major finding one, residents have a very positive perception of the city. Overall quality of life and quality of city services and the image of the city were the top three that residents were most satisfied with. And no more than 8% of residents were satisfied with any area related to perceptions. When we look at the overall satisfaction with major categories of city services, A majority of residents, 50% or more, were satisfied with each category of city services, the top being quality of parks and rec, programs and facilities, public safety, police fire emergency, and maintenance of city buildings and facilities. Residents in all areas are satisfied with the overall quality of city services. When you look at a map, Blue is always a good as a good color for this because it shows that residents through all parts of the city are satisfied or very, very satisfied. And this particular map quality of city services residents are very satisfied. And then the quality of life in the city residents again are satisfied or very satisfied. Satisfaction with city services in West Des Moines are among the highest in the nation. When you look at the perceptions of the city, the overall satisfaction is 50% above the national average and 41% above the Plains regional average. When looking at the major categories of city services, the city is setting the standard in all areas assessed. No fewer then 60% are satisfied with any of the major categories of city services. When it comes to public safety, the overall quality of the police, fire, and emergency medical services are all significantly higher than the national and regional averages. Code enforcement services were rated higher than the national and regional averages in all areas. City maintenance rates significantly above the national and regional averages in all 11 maintenance categories that were assessed. Again, city communications rated significantly higher than the U.S. and Plains region. When we look at the trends, the most notable increases since the last survey in 2024, overall quality of rec program services, city street systems, the service desk, MidAmerican Energy Company RecPlex, Jamie Heard Amphitheater, and quality of the city's website. These all had the most significant increases since 2024. The most notable decreases pertain to quality of residential growth, how well the city's planning for growth, enforcing maintenance nuisances for new commercial construction, enforcing maintenance nuisances for new residential construction, quality of water services, and quality of water delivered to homes. Major finding five, priorities for investment. Look at the overall categories of city services. The highest level of importance are quality of water services, overall enforcement of code violations, and overall traffic flow management in the city. Looking at public safety, there were no high priorities, but we went ahead and list enforcement of local traffic laws in the top level of importance. Again, for parks and recreation priorities, the city's adult 50 plus recreation programs are the highest level of priority. And maintenance of city streets was the highest priority. Other findings, initiatives most important for the city's police department to emphasize, additional residential patrolling by officers, additional police problem solving in neighborhoods, and Neighborhood Watch or Business Watch were in the top three, most important. Sources of information that residents are currently using, the most mentioned were WDM Magazine and Facebook. Residents were asked which of the following is needed most in their neighborhood. The top responses were more enforcement of traffic laws and more enforcement of property maintenance codes. When they were asked benefits of economic development that are most important, better lifestyle amenities, more jobs in the region, and higher standard of living for citizens were in the top three. Types of employers or businesses residents would like to see expanded or located in West Des Moines. Finance and insurance services, healthcare, and retail were in the top three. To summarize, residents have a very positive perception of the city. 94% are satisfied with the quality of life in the city, and 93% are satisfied with the overall quality of city services. Satisfaction is much higher in West Des Moines Other communities, the city rated again 50% above the U.S. average in the overall quality of city services and significantly higher in all 43 areas that were compared. And again, the overall priorities for improvement over the next two years, quality of city water services, enforcement of code violations, and overall traffic flow management in the city.

Any questions for Don? Do we have a printed copy of this, or could we get it emailed at least to us? All right, thank you.

I guess the only thing that caught my eye that I would say, I'm pleased that we continue to do extremely well with a very high citizen satisfaction rate. Of course, tonight, it was kind of an ironic night to go over this but you know we have incredible staff that work really hard take a lot of pride and everything they do that an incredible city manager city manager's office just a great team that I just can't thank enough for caring as much as they do about the city and caring about the job that they do that we continue to have extremely high marks I would say one thing that was in there that I'd like to see taken out of there, unless there's a really good reason which you can talk to me offline about taking it out, is the question about water. Like, we work extremely hard to do water quality improvements. That's about, you know, whenever we can do that.

I think you're talking about the water out of the tap, aren't they?

That's what it seems like. It's city. I know, but we have nothing to do with that. I know, and I've questioned that every time we've done a citizen survey.

Why are we questioning our residents what they think about the water? I used to work for Water Works, right? 31 years, but we as council... have no control over the waterworks. We approve their budget and appoint their board. That's it. So I don't know why that question is in there.

I think it needs to come out, especially because, and it's really funny now that water quality is so heightened, too. We're dealing with people all the time, and I've dealt with people ever since I got elected that are asking me why we're sending them backflow notices and death threats that their water's going to get shut off if they don't do the backflow tests. And I'm like, what? What are you talking about? We have nothing to do with that. People's perception is that Water Works is a part of the city and it's not, and we're fighting it, but yet we're asking it on this question. Right.

Sure, and absolutely. In future surveys, we could certainly take Check out that question.

I think we need to because we're really, I mean, I don't want to say we're fighting it on a daily basis, but I can't tell you how many people, if you ask 10 people about water and drinking water and distribution and the cost of the water and all these things, they would think that this was city. because it's West Des Moines waterworks. And I just don't know why we continue to help confuse people when we're trying to battle it on the other front to let them know that we have nothing to do with it other than as Kevin said, I appoint the people that serve on their governing board and these guys confirm them. Receive it. Receive it.

We don't even approve it. We receive their budget and file it.

We've done a lot in the way of water quality improvements to try to treat the runoff before it gets into the rivers and the streams. We're going to continue to do that. We care deeply about our environment and being good stewards of it, but we don't have anything to do with drinking water, the quality of that drinking water. Nothing to do with it. Anyway, Councilman Hudson.

Hey, Ryan, can you pull that up again? Or Dawn, can you pull that up again? Can you go back to the slide that has West Des Moines versus all like the Great Plains cities and all U.S. cities? So you're right, Mr. Mayor. It is ironic because certainly we had a discussion about the storm, about the sewer water, which is, of course, terrible. We have a robust discussion about flock cameras, which is in the news and whatnot. So it is an irony that we're bringing it up tonight. But I just, I can't let this slide, the fact that this survey, just like it does every single two years we do it, just brings back, just brings enormous amounts of pride for the city because we can't, I can't let it slide to talk about, look at this slide in front of you, everybody. I'm sorry, we have to, I have to reemphasize this. I mean, these are bonkers levels of statistics. for the folks who filled out this survey. Keep in mind, it's several hundred people. There's a lot more people who live in the city. But, I mean, when it comes to, like, just right at the top of the list, quality of parks and recreation program, I mean, this is like second to none stuff. Ooh, the Plains region, I'm glad that the Midwest folks are doing good, 55%. That is more than half who really like the parks and the rec programs. We're at 95%. That is bonkers levels. And 94% for our public safety. That is bonkers level of approval. Now we talk about water. Water is not us. But, you know, we still hear about it. And people complain and talk about traffic. I get that. And they talk about code enforcement. Those are things that are never going to be, like, at the top of the list for popularity. But, again, look... Look at these stats. They're pretty good. And again, irony, sanitary sewer systems on that list. I'm so sorry that it's on there. But I can't let that 95% slide. And I know, Dawn, you said it, but I just have to say it again and again and again. You want to go back to that previous slide one more time, Dawn? And... Yeah, that one right there. So overall quality of citizens, 93%. Image of the city, 93%. Do you like living in West Des Moines? Yes. Do you love West Des Moines? Yes. Do you think that people like West Des Moines? Yes. Do you feel safe in the city of West Des Moines, 91%? Yes. Look at that. Compared to Midwest cities, 61%. That's okay. But this is the expectation that our residents have. And they have high expectations, and they deserve to have those expectations met, which is why it sucks so much when they're not met. But this is how we want our city results to be. And, yeah, it's a little bit lower for overall value received. Okay. How will the city's plan for growth? But we just blow everybody out of the water. And I have to say it, I will not let it pass. That concludes my report, Mr. Mayor.

All right. Thank you, Councilman. Any other comments, questions?

Part one.

I think it would be very important. This is our report card. This is the residents telling us where we need to improve and based on the statistics that we're looking at right now, I mean, 93%, you know, we're doing pretty well. But The council's job is to make sure that the city manager is doing his job. A reflection of that are all of the individuals that are sitting in the back of the room, all of our directors. So I want to publicly thank our directors because they're the ones that are making sure that our people are, that our boots on the ground are getting things done. So you guys, all of our directors back there, I thank you and I thank you, Tom.

All right, thank you, Councilwoman. Any other comments, concerns, questions before we move on with the rest of the program? All right, Dawn, thank you so much for being here and presenting this. Really appreciate all you guys do, and we'll see you again in two years. Two years.

Thank you very much.

All right, have a great night.

All right, you too, bye-bye.

Thank you, bye-bye. Okay, moving on to Mayor-Council Manager Report. We're going to start down to my right with City Manager Tom Hatton. Any report? No report, Your Honor. Okay, we're going to move on to Councilman Greg Hudson. Any report? Part two is short. Part two.

We had a Finance Subcommittee meeting. In that meeting, we talked about fire suppression systems. Thank you to Steve Freebert and folks in Valley Junction as we discuss this issue more and more, and I think there'll be more to come, but for right now, I just want to say we talked about it in It was good, healthy discussion along those lines. I was going to comment on the citizen survey, but I think I've made those comments. And I want to shout out to Ryan Penning. He shared earlier that this was the record year for the aquatic centers. This was the year that more people went to Valley View and Holiday Park than have ever gone to those two parks combined in the history of the city of West Des Moines. Thanks to, again, the staff. It's probably the reason why it's 95% Parks and Rec approval rating. and because of the hard work that you, Ryan, do, as well as, again, to echo Finette, everyone else on the back of the room and everyone who leads departments and is a part of the Department of the City of West Des Moines. And that concludes my report, Mr. Mayor.

All right. Thank you, Councilman. Councilwoman Elliott, any report?

I'm chuckling because if Greg kept it short, that means I better keep it shorter. All right.

Good luck to you.

I'm going to go through it real quick, I promise everyone. Let's see. I also attended the F&A meeting with Greg, and there will be more to come as that approaches. I will say that I am a firm believer of chat GPT. And I actually went to chat GPT to do some research so that I could very intelligently speak to our fire and our fire safety. And they said there will be more to come, but it's very important when you're dealing with issues that you don't understand, it's important to go get help as far as instead of relying on he said, she said. So I'm feeling very confident with the information that I have. in terms of our fire safety down in the junction. I also attended the DART funding meeting with Tom and Tim. Once again, an opportunity to learn more. Always, always, you should be in a learning mode. I really had, and I had the honor to attend the swearing in of our new police officers. It always gives me goosebumps when I see our new officers being sworn in. the eagerness in their eyes. They are choosing to protect our community. So anytime there's a swearing in, Chief Bellamy, I'll be there. There also were service awards presented to some of our police staff. So I was very honored to attend. Let's see. I toured, and I don't like to use the word I because that's just like egotistical. There were a number of us that had the opportunity to tour a Microsoft data center. I'm not going to go into that right now, but feel free to reach out to me if you're curious as far as what Microsoft is doing for our community, but specifically touring the data center. I was very excited to have that opportunity. Let's see. I am part of the Historic Valley Junction Foundation. Once again, I had an opportunity to meet with the executive board. for clarification and understanding. As far as the Valley Junction shared sprinklers, Spinkler system. Two S's again. But I thank the board for the opportunity for me to ask questions. It's one thing when you're told things. It's another thing when you research. And then you go the third step when you actually talk to the individuals that are involved. So it was a very rewarding conversation. All of my questions were answered. So I'm feeling very confident and now I do have the information to make an intelligent vote. Let's see, I also attended a dark commissioners meeting. Two other things, just real quick. I met with a resident regarding an ongoing neighborhood dispute that has been going on for a while. And I did have an opportunity to discuss it with our city manager, just in terms of will we get some resolution of an issue that has gone on for... 10 years, but anyway, I met with that resident. And then another resident approached me in the Valley Junction area. They're interested in a community garden. So more to come on that, probably in the spring, because we're not planting anything.

But that's all that I have. I think, what do we have now? Two community gardens? Three community gardens? We've got a number of community gardens out there, and we've expanded since we started. And it's a very, very popular program. So I wouldn't doubt if there's demand for more. All right, Councilman Trevelyan, any report at this time?

Well, let's see. I'll keep this to less than an hour and a half. No report. All right.

Thank you. Councilman Lotz, any report, and then we'll go to Councilman McKinney.

Just two quick things I want to call out here in the consent agenda regarding Legacy Woods. And it's so fun to see these things. We've got a $250,000 grant from the state. You know, Microsoft's given a nice pile of money. There's been a lot of people contribute, private sector folks, Dan Houston, Don Shane. The city, everybody's working on these things. It's fun to see these go through because, you know, we had a lot of long meetings about what to do with that place. And it's going to be an incredible, incredible amenity for the city. I'm really proud to have worked with you all on it. So I'm glad to see these on the consent agenda tonight moving forward. Great job, Ryan. Thanks for raising money back there. Bye.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. The only thing I would say real quickly, you know, of course, you've seen what's happened with with Bucky's. I had to bring it up. had to do it. We're in the hunt. We're in the hunt for the beaver. And we are going to work as hard as we can to get buckies in West Des Moines. We've got about four different locations, maybe five that we're going to be showing them at some point in time. Excited about that. I know we're in the hunt with a number of other cities that are looking to try to get buckies here. We are continuing to work on the economic development front, firing on all cylinders. The Grand Experience continues to move forward. That's our water park convention center hotel amphitheater. We're continuing to work on developing that north parcel and just saw some of the development that we're looking at potentially getting there. which is just gonna be absolutely beautiful. And we're getting a lot more interest up and down that Grand Avenue corridor. We're working with a couple different housing developers. As you know, you've heard me talk about housing. We got a workshop about housing. We're gonna be looking at doing about 2,200 dwelling units out off of Grand Prairie Parkway. We've got Eagle Brook, I think, that's on the agenda tonight. That's like seven to 900 housing units that we're looking at getting done. We're still looking for land in the West Des Moines Community School District. to get more rooftops there to help schools uh... but we've just got a lot of great things going on the economic development front and uh... i'm really proud of all that stuff we've got going and of course we're working to move legacy woods forward we're working on the event center at the rec plex that's moving forward will be done at the end of twenty twenty seven so we have got a lot besides making sure that the garbage is picked up that the uh... that the streets are clean and fixed. We've got all kinds of different quality of life things and economic development prospects that we're talking to. So very proud of everything that we've got going on in the city. All right, moving on with item four, consent agenda.

Are there... We do have Matt on the phone as well. Oh, geez.

Yeah, I thought we were going to go to Matt. Matt, Matt, you still around, Matt? Make a noise if you're here.

I'm listening, hanging on to every word you're saying.

All right, buddy, go ahead.

You report if you have anything. Yeah, I'll just be brief. I'm excited about all the economic development. I think one of the things that I look at every month is when I get the report showing all the building permits that have been pulled and the valuation that's been added. And I think this 2026 calendar year may be one of the top calendar years in terms of economic development activity as measured by building permits that we've ever had. Obviously, we have more to go, but it's exciting to see all that's out there. I'll just echo some of the comments briefly. I also joined Finette at the swearing in. We had three, I just wanna call it out, three officers that were recognized for saving lives in the city of West Des Moines. Whether it was because of a stabbing, somebody was about to jump onto the interstate, and a third person that collapsed had a heart failure, all three of those officers sprung to action, saved a life, and were recognized that day. And it's just pretty important to point out, we also added five new officers who were sworn in that day. I'll echo the points that Finette Elliott shared, and that is, you know, it's great to see the good work that our public safety officers are doing throughout the community. I'd also just point out on the survey, you know, the folks that we work with in the city, the contractors, the vendors, et cetera, they're a reflection of our community. And we heard earlier today that we have a vendor or two that are a problem. We ought to, and we should, as Councilman Hudson pointed out, recognize those that are good to work with, those that are troubling to work with, because part of what we are here to do is to make sure that we have a community that has a good image. We have a community where our residents trust the folks that we're working with. And when there's a problem, we address it. And so I just point to the fact of what Councilman Hudson identified a little bit earlier, and it's great to see that come through in the report. I think we've done a very good job, as the report indicates. That's all. One item, Mayor, we had a development planning meeting this morning and we have a significant ordinance coming forward that will address the types of vehicles that may be parked in the driveway, parked on the street, parked on pavers or parked on concrete. It is pretty complex. It took a lot of caffeine to try to track it. And I know staff is going to be putting together a nice maybe FAQ or other diagram to help everybody understand because there are a tremendous amount of vehicles and the types of vehicles and how they're used and where they're used and how big they are and how heavy they are and what they can be, where they can be parked. So that will be coming forward soon. That's all I've got, Mayor.

All right. Thank you, Councilman. Appreciate that. And, you know, I neglected to talk about Valley West Mall. I'm not going to talk about much other than the fact that I think we finally have a buyer who will be closing in the next 30 days. And I know that we all look forward to working with this individual to move that forward. And we've also got somebody, as you know, that is looking at purchasing or has purchased the Regency West office park, office building, and they're looking to totally redevelop that. something that's going to be restaurant, retail, entertainment, office, and all kinds of great stuff. So we've got a lot of great things going on in the city to be very proud of, and yet we continue to work to be more efficient and effective in the delivery of services that residents rely on every single day, and I'm proud of the job that we do. And thank you for the leadership of Tom Haddon and all of our department directors for everything they do.

And one more thing. Yes. And I know Rochelle's not here, but I went to the Taste of the Junction. And I think there were several of us who were there. It was fantastic. It always is fantastic. So I want to thank all of the folks who made the Taste of the Junction Festival possible. Great work. It was awesome, as always.

Great. Thank you for bringing that up. Yeah, I know it's a huge event every year that a lot of people look forward to.

Yeah, only thing I'm going to add, it was a fantastic opportunity for the to come together. It was a three-day event. The first night on Thursday, various families in the Junction were honored. The next day was Jazz in the Junction. That was at Raccoon River Lodge. And then Saturday was the day of Neighborhood. It was just fantastic. There was three bands. There was engagement. I want my hats off to Rochelle and her whole executive team that did the planning, which they're going to start probably next week. They're going to start planning for the next year. So hats off to you, Rochelle.

Unreal. Okay. Moving on. Item four, consent agenda. Are there any items any councilperson would like to have pulled and voted on separately? Otherwise, I would take a motion to approve the consent agenda as listed.

I will make a motion to approve with, and I just wanted to say one thing. I don't want to pull it, but I do want to recognize our K-9 officer who has served for seven years, and it is on, which one is it? 4G. I don't want to pull 4G, but I definitely want to recognize that Murphy was a K-9 officer for the City of West Des Moines for seven years. And Murphy, good luck in your retirement because that's a long time to be a K-9. Long, happy, and healthy retirement. Absolutely.

Thank you, Murphy, for all your work. Thank you, Murphy. Second. Okay, so it's removed and seconded. Please vote. Five yes. Okay, moving on. Item 5, Old Business. Item 5A, Sugar Bend, Southeast Corner Mill Civic Parkway and South Grand Prairie Parkway amend zoning map to establish multifamily residential, commercial, and open space WDM ground LLC. We've got an ordinance amendment for approval of the second reading, waiver of the third reading, adoption of final form. There are no outstanding issues and no changes in the previous reading, which was adopted unanimously by the council at our last meeting.

Motion to consider the second reading.

Second. Okay, it's a move and seconded. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, please vote. Aye.

5, yes. We're going to submit the official zoning map of the City of West Des Moines, Iowa 2024 by amending Title IX Zoning Chapter 4 Zoning Districts and Map.

Motion to approve the second reading. Second.

All right, please vote.

Aye. 5, yes. Motion to waive the third reading and adopt in final form.

Second.

Please vote. Aye. Aye. Five, yes. Okay, item 5B, we've got second reading, third reading of the TIF ordinance. We've got an ordinance for approval of the second reading, waiver of the third reading, adoption of final form. There are no outstanding issues and no changes from the previous reading, which was, again, adopted unanimously by the council at our last meeting.

Motion to consider second reading.

Second. And this is for, I'm sorry, for Southeast 35th Street TIF ordinance. Okay, it's been moved and seconded. Is there any discussion? Okay, hearing none, please vote.

Aye.

Five yes notes providing the general property taxes levied and collected each year on all property located within the Southeast 35th Street urban renewal area in the city of West Des Moines be paid to a special fund for payment of principal and interest on loans, monies advanced to an indebtedness including bonds issued or to be issued incurred by the city in connection with the Southeast 35th Street urban renewal area.

Motion to approve, second reading. Second.

Okay, please vote.

Aye. Five yes. Motion to waive third reading and adopt in final form. Second.

All right, please vote. Five, yes. Okay, item 5C, amendment to city code, title two, boards and commissions, chapter nine, human rights commission, section three, commission appointed. We've got an ordinance amendment for approval of the second reading, waiver of the third reading, adoption of final form. There are no outstanding issues, no changes in the previous reading, which is adopted unanimously by the council of the last meeting. And I would just simply say this again, we've taken an ordinance like this before. We are conforming with changes to state law.

Motion to consider second reading.

Second. Okay, it's moved and seconded. Is there any discussion? Okay, hearing none, please vote.

Aye. 5-yes, I want to amend the City Code of the City of Western Iowa 2024 by amending Title II, Boards and Commissions, Chapter 9, Human Rights Commission.

Motion to approve. Second reading. Second.

Okay, please vote.

Aye. 5-yes. Motion to waive third reading and adopt in final form. Second. All right, please vote.

Aye.

Five yes. Okay, item six, public hearings. We've got no public hearings this evening. Item seven, new business. Item seven A, St. Francis Church slash school, 7075 Ashworth Road. Approve a preliminary plat to create one lot and approve a major modification to allow construction of four building additions onto the existing building. St. Francis of Assisi, Roman Catholic Church of West Des Moines, Iowa. We've got a resolution for approval of the preliminary plat and major modification and acceptance of legal documents. There are no outstanding issues. There are, however, two conditions of approval. One of them is related to the church having to come up with a plan for traffic flow in the event that congestion occurs and traffic backs up onto the street. And another condition of approval is that the occupancy permit shall be issued only upon the final plat being approved. So to approve. Second. Okay, it's moved and seconded. Is there anybody in the audience or online that would like to address counsel on item 7A? If you're online, hit star 60 and unmute yourself. Okay, is there any discussion on the dice? We've got four calls about this. Four calls? Four calls. This sounds like a pretty exciting project.

It seems like a big project there, so it's good. People care a lot about it, so it's good.

Yeah, they do. Yeah, they do. All right, any other discussion before we vote? All right, hearing none, please vote.

Aye.

Five, yes. Okay, item 7B. It's a resolution to approve agreement with Home Opportunities Made Easy, otherwise Home Inc., for the redevelopment of 304 2nd Street. We've got a resolution for approval of the agreement to acquire and redevelop the property at 304 2nd Street, and there are no outstanding issues.

Motion to approve.

Second. It's a move and seconded. Is there anybody in the audience or online that would like to address the council on this item, item 7B? All right, hearing no one, is there any discussion on the dais? Okay. Cool project. It is a cool project. We're gonna basically rehab one property in bad condition and we're gonna rebuild two.

All right, please vote. The only comment that I would make is that it's reassuring the actual property owner actually approached us and wanted to sell. So, you know, I thank her for the opportunity for new housing to go in the junction.

Yep, and it's a home... Homeownership and affordable housing for two lucky families. So it's pretty cool project pretty cool projects. Okay, please vote Five yes Okay item 7 C approval of traffic code amendments official traffic control South 60th Street and Grand Avenue We've got an ordinance amendment for approval the first reading and there are no outstanding issues. I

Motion to consider first reading.

Second. Okay, it's a move and seconded. Is there anybody in the audience who would like to address the council on item 7C? Is there any discussion on the dais? Okay, please vote.

Aye. Five yes and I want to amend the City Code of the City of West Des Moines, Iowa 2024 by amending provisions pertaining to the traffic code relating to official traffic controls.

Motion to approve first reading. Second. All right, please vote.

Aye.

Five, yes. Okay, item 7D, approval of traffic code amendment, special stops required, no parking zones, special speed zones, Riverview Drive, South 88th Street to Eastern Terminus. We've got an ordinance amendment for the approval of the first reading, and there are no outstanding issues. We should consider the first reading. Okay, is there a move, is there a second? Second. It's a move and seconded. Is there anybody in the audience or online that would like to address council on item 7D? Any discussion on the dais? Okay, please vote.

Aye. 5, yes. An ordinance amending the City Code of the City of West Des Moines, Iowa 2024 by amending provisions pertaining to the traffic schedules.

Motion to approve the first reading. Second.

All right. Please vote. Aye. 5, yes. Okay. Item 7E, approval of traffic code amendment four-way stop intersection South 88th Street and Grand Avenue. We've once again got an ordinance amendment for approval of the first reading and there are no outstanding issues. Motion to approve the first reading. Second. Is there anyone in the audience or online that would like to address the council on item 7E? If you're online, star six to unmute yourself. All right, is there any discussion on the dais? Okay, please vote.

Aye.

Five yes, an ordinance amended in the City Code of the City of West Des Moines, Iowa 2024, by many provisions pertaining to the traffic code related to official traffic controls.

Motion to approve the first reading. Second. Okay, please vote. 5, yes. Okay, item 7F, approval of traffic code amendment, no parking zones, remove parking prohibition on Elm Street, 5th Street to alley between 4th Street and 5th Street. This is due to the reconfiguration of the DART routes. Therefore, we can finally have parking again in this area, which will probably be very welcomed. So we've got, again, an ordinance amendment for approval of the first reading. There are no outstanding issues. Motion to consider first reading. Second. It's moved and seconded. Is there anybody in the audience who are online? I'd like to address the council on this item. Okay, any discussion in the dais? Okay, please vote.

Aye. Five yeses. I want to amend the City Code of the City of West Des Moines, Iowa 2024 by many provisions pertaining to the traffic schedules.

Motion approved. First reading. Second. Okay, please vote.

Aye. Five, yes. Okay, item eight, receive, file, and or refer. Item 8A, we will receive and file the internal financial reports. Item nine, other matters. Are there any other matters that any council person would like to raise for the good of the order at this point in time?

Okay.

Hearing none, we are going to adjourn, I believe, into an executive session, which is going to be up in the boardroom upstairs. And following that executive session, we will reconvene into our workshop on housing. So we are adjourned.

Checkity check, check.

All right, we're gonna reconvene back into the workshop. Does anybody need to hit record on that? Okay, we're good to go. All right, so we're gonna start out here with Ryan Moffitt, our Community Economic Development Director, who's gonna take it over and then probably have Christine Gordon come on up as well. You've got it, yep.

Thank you, Mayor. Good evening, Mayor and Council. You know, for years now, really West Des Moines has been seen as a local leader when it comes to communities, suburban communities basically that bring unique and innovative housing approaches and solutions to the challenges that we face when it comes to housing availability for all income ranges. and then also for making sure we keep the quality of our existing housing stock up. So just since I've come on board, I can recall two communities now that have come and visited us basically to see what we've got going on here. They've heard good things about some of the innovation that we have done in the past. The state of Iowa, particularly the Iowa Finance Authority, they've recognized us for some time. They've called on us for things. Christine and I last year at the Iowa Housing Conference went and presented on some of the strategies that we've done. So that's a good thing. We've been seen as a leader for quite some time. So stepping into this role a few years ago, it's really quite honestly been impressive how long we've done some of these things and just how unique some of these things are. So I know Christine deserves a lot of accolades and recognition just as you do up here as elected officials as well. When we converse with council, be it myself or our staff, on topics related to housing policy, we get a pretty wide array of opinions. I think we saw that play out a little bit this year during the budget workshop when I presented our department's budget. I think most of that conversation really was focused on where we're going from a housing perspective. And so... What we want to do tonight is take a little bit of a step back and we'll be brief about this. Go through where we've been from a housing strategy standpoint. From there, we'll look at some of the data that can help guide some decisions, some information for you. And then what we're going to do tonight is present a list of 10 recommendations for council to take a look at. We want to narrow that list of 10 down to three or four priorities that you would like us to work on over the coming years. So with that, I'm going to turn over the bulk of this presentation to Christine Gordon, our housing manager, but I also want to take a moment to introduce Ginny Roy. She's our housing planner in our department. So this is our small but mighty team that does work on housing affairs for the city. We'll try to get through the whole presentation before we field questions, but we're here and available for when you do have those questions. Thank you. All right. Write down your questions as the presentation goes along.

We'll ask them afterwards.

Don't get distracted. You have an activity at the end, so don't get distracted, but they're gonna sit up here. So you have some stuff in front of you. We printed out the actual presentation, the slides, so you have them. They were in your packet as well, but those, you have the income guidelines also in the presentation, but a separate page for you. The four page memo I do, I keep up to date on different, what we've done over the years with housing. So that has more detail in front of you as well. And then the last thing is all of the results from the multifamily survey I did. So I'll go into that a little bit more. I just want you to know you have all that in front of you. Maybe not Barabi and Tom, you at least have the slides. Okay. So, As Ryan said today, we just wanna try and get you all to focus on three or four ideas. We're gonna present 10 of them. We do have a blank board if you guys come up with something that you also wanna include it as an option. But we wanna get this narrowed so that our small staff of two full-time people have something to focus on both where the resources, both time and money, we should be putting those towards. So that's where our goal is when we finish. And the mayor said 45 minutes, so we'll do the best we can.

Are you turning the display?

Nothing's showing.

Nothing is showing. Thank you.

So you're using up the laptop? Yes. Okay.

I wasn't aware of that.

We've been looking at ourselves the entire time.

There we go.

Okay.

I saw you pushing a button. I did push a button. Something's not working.

I had it plugged in. Okay. All good. So... Okay. This one is, again, more of a summary about all the great things that West Des Moines has done. So if you're aware or not, before even the floods of 1993, there was a rehab program that was started. That's how long the city's been invested in improving housing for low income. So obviously when the floods happened, things got diverted and such, but for 30 years plus, the city has been focused on affordable housing and we've been a leader. I don't know of another suburban community in the metro that has staff dedicated just to housing that you all do. So that really sets West Des Moines apart. It makes it special and we've been doing these efforts for many, many years. You all have been putting money towards those efforts and then that has been the focus of my job and Jenny that's been on board as well now for a couple of years. So these are just a few things and again you can go to that handout that I provided that goes into more detail and all the different things that West Des Moines accomplished. So where do we go from here? How do we continue this momentum? We're gonna start with just some basic, really simple demographics quickly, so everyone gets on the same page. Our population, 74,000-ish. We have about 34,000 housing units. Of that, about 47,000, or 47% is rental, and then 57% is owner occupied. You'll notice in the upper right hand corner when it talks about housing, households that are cost burdened, we're right in the middle. I know Polk County is the one that's in blue, but look at West Des Moines right below it. So 26% of our households, both owner and renter are cost burdened, meaning they're spending more than 30% of their gross income towards housing expenses. So compared to the other metros, we're right in the middle, which is not a bad place to be. But then if you look at the chart to the left, it shows you that the rental people that are renting are disproportionately spending more than people that are owner-occupied. So if you own your home, you may be cost-burdened, but there's many more people in the rental market that are cost-burdened. And then it also tells you by income. So not the very lowest income are the most cost burdened, but those between 20,000 and 34,000 annual income are the most cost burdened renters in our community. The next slide shows how we compare in median household price and median rent within the Metro. Again, we're right about in the middle. So this time we are in the darker green. And in both charts, we're right in the middle, which again is not a bad place to be. Could be better in both situations, but not as bad as it could be. Then the next goes into where is our affordable rental? So poke County housing trust fund. Did a great report on every federally assisted housing project in the in the county and this is a map of where those are located and according to them they we have 1147 of federally assisted rental housing. The chart on the right shows all of those. So ones that the city council has chosen to assist with our housing LMI TIF money, property tax rebate money that we've assisted and have a development agreement on. So we've assisted projects, not necessarily with federal money, but in other ways that have kept them affordable. And so that totals out to about 1,400, which is about 10% of all the rental units in West Des Moines, which again is a good marker. That's a good amount for a city of our size to have. Here is your incomes. Again, just putting these in front of you because I think I get asked all the time, what are these numbers? And there's lots of difference. So you've had the 100%, the 80%, which is what is the federal standard for CDBG, for Community Development Block Grant. That's the max for those type of programs that a household has to be under. And remember, these are gross incomes. These are before taxes. Okay. Okay. And the next one shows you rents. This I think is important as we think about the type of programs, type of housing units we're assisting. A lot of times we mostly work on the top chart, the one that has the housing tax credit rents. That's mostly what we work off of. Anytime we have a development agreement, we require people to have certain rents and incomes, we are working off of that chart. So when we say that they have to rent below 80% or the max they can charge in rent is 80% on an efficiency, that's $1,630. That's a lot. So it gets you to say maybe we need to be saying 50% is the max or lower. Absolutely. Okay, so you're looking at the top chart, right? The top chart. So these are rents that are put out by the Iowa Finance Authority for any of the low income housing tax credit properties across the state. We use those because they're a standard, they come out every year. When we say that the max rent they can charge is 80%, so the person's income max is 80%, the max rent they can charge is 80%, that is the max rent that they can charge. If we said the max was 60%, 60% income, 60% rent, and then you go to the 60% line.

So what we're saying is eliminate the 80% line.

If you wanna make a, it depends on how affordable you wanna go. 80% to me is not very affordable on this chart.

What kind of money are these people bringing in?

Well, then you're looking at the previous page which has the 80% incomes.

Well, and I'll give you an example. I mean, we were talking about going to 60% and we were looking at doing the program that Renee wanted to be a part of or wanted us to look at the rental assistance or whatever. And we thought, what level are we helping a starting teacher? And that was the 60%, right? So a starting teacher in our school district is probably at 60%.

So that's something to keep in mind. Also in these numbers, so any, it is the max rent that can be charged, including utility allowances. So if I as a tenant had to pay for all of my utilities, then me as an owner, I have to reduce what rent I can charge, because you have to account for those utilities that are paid by the tenant. But still, mainly you don't, most tenants don't pay a whole lot of utilities.

I'm trying to understand the bottom, though. They're in market rent.

Yep, those are put out by HUD.

Lower.

They are lower. They're closer to the 60% number for 50266 and closer to the 50% number for 50265. So the HUD numbers are used for housing choice vouchers and any CDBG program that we would assist with that federal money, we have to charge or apply fair market rents to that. So we could choose, we could choose fair market rents for our development agreements. These are options that you all have and that we have as staff to recommend different rents. I just want you to be aware that you have options and choices.

So why haven't our development agreements slowed down the increase in rents?

Why haven't our development agreements slowed down?

Yeah, so we're putting this in writing so the property owner can't charge more rent to these people. Why is that failing to dissuade increased rent?

Well, they can't go above whatever the max is, but that max is quite high. So they're able to charge, if they have a two-bedroom, they could charge up to $2,000 if they wanted to. Now, market has to be a part of that as well. Even if it's income restricted, if you can't get $2,000 in rent, you're not going to charge $2,000 in rent.

And I would just say, too, HUD, every single year, they come out with new numbers, and every year they're increasing just like everything else does, cost of living-wise, too. So every May.

That's where I started out, was working in Section 8 housing for the city of Des Moines, doing a 100-day appointment. I basically looked at the... I did a rental market survey of all of the rental properties in the area to determine what the fair market rent value should be that HUD would use to be able to give a Section 8 voucher to somebody. So they're doing it every year based on the market. Literally fair market rent. But our area median income is obviously higher than that.

We've got a decent... Yeah, we're tied in with Des Moines. We're part of the Des Moines MSA. So we have the same income limits as Des Moines does.

So what would happen if we adopted... Let me try to get...

Then people with Section 8 vouchers could come and live, if the owner would agree to take Section 8 vouchers, they could live in some of our apartments.

Do you think that they would?

Yeah. I think there used to be, what, a backlog of maybe 3,000 or more on Section 8 vouchers.

They close the waiting list. They open it once a year, once every couple of years, and it's a lottery. But many times you can't find places to use vouchers. There's not enough landlords or owners that will take them. So some people have to return them.

And there was a bill up in the legislature to change that, and people, it never went anywhere because... You know, why are we telling you, who took it upon yourself to buy a couple rental properties and you want to rent it out, that you have to take the housing vouchers? There's a lot of federal requirements that go with taking those Section 8 housing vouchers that some landlords don't want to get into.

I think the point I'm trying to make is, what's the difference between $1,020 and... Why it matters?

It matters because that's the maximum rent that somebody that does a development agreement with us is able to charge for the next, what do we lock them in, 15 years?

It depends on the program. Why does it matter to us which number we use?

It depends on what your goal is. Right. How affordable are you wanting it to make? It's definitely a balance.

Let's say we got a tranche for efficiency apartments for $30 a month. Is anybody going to build those? No. No. So the point I'm trying to make is, yeah, we can go choose the lowest number ever, but then nobody's going to take those properties. Correct. And then the legislature goes, oh, then I'm selling my property.

And we'll be heavily subsidizing to get those built because that's taking income away from the owners of the properties.

It is a balance. It is a balance between... How much do you want to put into it? How much do you want to put into it? They need to break even at least, and most places would like to make a little money. So it is a balance between the two.

They don't break even or nothing either.

Correct.

And we've, you know, other than the LIHTC, you know, because that has different limits, that's 60% AMI or below, we've only been dipping our toe in. So Keystone on 8th Street, for example, you know, we did 80% AMI. We capped the rents at the 80% AMI level, and then we have tenant income verification at that same level. That's about what market rate rents are in that part of West Des Moines. Well, from our understanding from the property management we've talked to there, which is Newberry Property Management, No commercial tenants in there, but there are people living in there. They're full. Every project that we've done... No, it's a stabilized property.

He's been trying to sell it quietly.

Yeah, it's out there on the market. We've fielded numerous discussions about selling that property. The multifamily occupancy, from my understanding, isn't the concern. It's that he wrote his pro forma with all the commercial tenants leased, and none of them have been leased yet.

So, you said that if we go with the HUD, fair market... Yeah, it would have to be Section 8 housing, right?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, it's just a different standard. That is the number that Section 8 uses.

But if you got a Section 8 voucher and you had a landlord that was participating in the process, yes, they could take that voucher and they could go to the apartment here. Right, but that is... We have a development agreement.

Yes, so... But they can do that anyhow. I was looking at Section 8 of Section 8.

Section 8 won't pay more than the fair market rent for people to get a voucher. So if our rent here and the efficiency is $1630, they can't go there.

Right.

Yeah.

The point... For the area median income, 100%, does 81.5 is what they're making?

That is 100%. Go to the 65,200. That is their gross income. So as long as they were below that, they could then qualify for an efficiency, and the owner could charge up to $1,600 if somebody is willing to pay that. The point I wanted to make again with this is you guys have options. We don't have to decide at this moment, just there's options. We don't automatically have to go with the 80. We have options.

But it's a sliding scale too. We've been doing 80. If you want to go lower than 80, then we're probably going to have to provide more incentives to the developer to be able to do the project. It can go both ways. So how much do you want to put into it? And who are you trying to attract? Who are you trying to help?

Has 80 been the only thing? I thought we've done a little bit more. We've done others.

We've done others, yeah.

But mostly has it been 80?

It's been a mix because many times they have other sources that put other restrictions on it. Keystone was unique because there was no other. We just did property tax rebate on that project. So there was no other federal sources or state that put restrictions on it.

So to make it clear, I'm a single guy and I'm at the 80th percentile and I want to get a one bedroom house and I want to go to Keystone. The maximum they can charge because they were part of this program is 1747. Right. but I might be like, oh, why don't I just live north of LA high school? Cause that rents a thousand dollars for a one bedroom. I think I'll do that because that's $700 cheaper.

Yes.

So this affordability actually doesn't get me anything.

No, not in that case.

So now given that reality, what do we do about that? And what is being proposed? We have options, but I look forward to hearing more. That's all.

Yes.

All right. Keep going.

Let's keep going.

Okay. I like questions. Questions are good. I live and breathe this, so it's good you guys are asking those questions to try and understand it. So that's it for stats. Okay, the next thing I just want to remind you what the 2040 plan says that was adopted in 2025 last year. There is four strategic goals, one of which is entirely housing. And then we're a part of another one. And there is 20 critical projects listed under those four goals. And six of them are housing related. So 30% of the 2040 plan is housing related for a staff of two. Okay? Okay, so I'm gonna present 10 ideas that we as staff have. They are not fully fleshed out and that they were not meant to be. I wasn't gonna come up here and tell you exactly how they're gonna be funded, where the money's coming from, how much the total budget is, but they are general concepts and ideas to get feedback on what you like and don't like, okay? So I'm gonna run through the 10 and then you're gonna do your activity about voting, okay?

I did want to speak to historic West Des Moines.

The program that started in 2022, incredibly successful. That was where we raised 1.6 million from banks and the county, and we matched that 1.6 million with general fund money. So we had a total pot of about 3.2, 3.3. We did three programs with those funds. In that time, it's still going on because we still have some money left over, not much. We're down to about 200,000 out of that 3.3 million. That's not committed, but we have completed 92 home improvements. We have another 18 that are active. So they're signing contracts, getting bids and such. So we should end up around 110 houses that we've touched in the historic West Des Moines area. We did seven down payments in that same area. And we, through the rental acquisition, we have four homes that one rehabbed and three brand new construction.

How many of the down payment folks are still in the home?

All of them. They would have to pay the money back if they sold the home.

Sweet, thank you.

Yep, all of the funds. The rental acquisition, the home improvement, and the down payment all have liens on the properties for a certain amount of time. So they're not able to sell or flip the homes and make a profit.

I'm really worried about foreclosures. The worst thing that can happen is somebody loses a home.

Yeah. And we had that in 2008 with some of our home repair programs. We had liens and they foreclosed and it just happened. That was what was going on with the market right now. So the staff recommendation with that is to sunset it as is. As the Historic West of Maine Housing Fund is, we would like to sunset it, but incorporate the ideas into some of these 10 programs we're gonna suggest, okay? So the first four are all under the bucket of owner-occupied repair. The first one is the Metro Home Improvement Program. This is eight cities that come together in Polk County to do owner-occupied repair. We no longer administer that. That's now done by the Mid-Iowa Planning Alliance. We outsourced it because it made most sense. It's freed up our time to focus 100% on West Des Moines and not on other communities. So that's actually been really quite helpful. Each of the eight communities has their own waiting list and City of West Des Moines is now up to 40. It says 39 here, but I checked today and there's 40 households dating back to 2022 on that list. So our recommendation is to take some of the housing LMI TIF money and address that list. Lots of rain tonight. A roof replacement, a new furnace, air conditioner. What's different about this than the historic West Des Moines is it is citywide in Polk County portion of West Des Moines and it does interior work. Whereas historic West Des Moines is limited to a particular area and only exterior work. This is entire. $15,000 is a five-year grant. Okay.

$15,000 every year for five years I can get?

No. No, 15 total. 15,000 and you sign a lien for five years, sorry. That would be amazing. 15 a year? Yeah. So that is program idea number one. The second one is an emergency minor home repair. So citywide, someone in the middle of winter, their furnace goes out, they need heat. Even in the summer, I would look at air conditioners today because it's a completely different world we live in. And the heat index, even what we saw over the weekend. But emergency repairs, proven emergency repairs, be able to go in quickly. We have nothing like that today. Hope County has a program that can do some of those things. And we get calls about this. People that have these emergency issues and need immediate help. And we currently don't have anything to assist them.

So I know we're not supposed to ask questions. So if it's an emergency repair, so my furnace goes out. Okay. 25th of December and it's freezing outside. How long does it take me to get qualified and then get somebody in there to get the furnace put in? I can't believe it's going to be the next day.

Yeah, these are the things we haven't fully fleshed out. But it would have to be a quick process. We would have to make it a simpler process than what we do today. Because today, they upload their information, they sign in online. It can take a week or two. So we would have to simplify that or change that process, do something a little bit different. Now, if it was on Christmas, that's certainly going to be a challenge, right? Or on a weekend. and how we would respond to those. So I don't have all those ideas fleshed out, but those are excellent, excellent questions that we'd have to change how we do things currently.

Let's take it off of Christmas and put it to the 10th of December. I mean, again, it's not going to happen overnight. So if it's an emergency repair, I don't have days to sit there without a purpose.

Right.

So I'd like to know how Cloak County is doing this.

I don't have all the details of how they do it.

Usually what happens, because I have brothers that run an HVAC company, when they have to condemn somebody's furnace, they're obligated to bringing in space heaters to keep the pipes from freezing and stuff for a certain amount of time, seven days. So they literally have a warehouse of shed with about 50 different space heaters. The HVAC companies do. And I've had them brought into my own house when my furnace went out over Christmas.

So yes, those are great questions and those are the details that will have to be worked out because that's what makes this program different is we want it to be responsive to those situations and be able to come and assist people. Can you meet our insurance requirements? I don't have the licensing to do it. Okay, so number three is architectural barrier. We've done some of these things as far as ramps and bathroom accessibility with our other programs, but having something very specifically targeted to keeping people in their homes where likely maybe the house is paid off. They only have, you know, paying for property taxes and utilities. So keeping them in a home and a place that's affordable by making it accessible for them.

When you call this architectural barrier me, that was saying the design of my house.

Okay.

You're not saying that. You're talking basically...

Accessibility?

...pictures and things like that.

I'm saying accessibility. Okay. So maybe the name needs to be changed.

I think so. Okay.

Yep. Definitely. Definitely. Definitely open to that. Okay, and that one would have pretty low income limits because the population that needs that type of assistance is likely to be only on Social Security disability and those type of incomes. The fourth one is continuing on with Historic West Des Moines and doing an exterior program, but offering it more to a greater area, expanding the area of Historic West Des Moines, not necessarily the entire city, because there's certain parts of our city that don't need exterior repairs on those homes, they're new enough, but definitely expanding the area, Keeping with the same idea that there would be higher incomes, match would be required if you're not senior, not below a certain income level, but really mirroring what we did with Historic West Des Moines because that's been so successful.

So when you say 12 homes a year, that's all we're going to do?

It was just an idea that it was, again... How do you pick them? You'd have a waiting list. Yeah. You'd say, here's the start date. Likely. I would expect. And that is 12 is a give or take. And that would depend on what you all decide is your three or four and the timeline and our staff capacity and what we could do. Okay. Correct.

I just wasn't sure if you were talking about there's some kind of a criteria they have to meet, or if it truly is, I applied first, Finette didn't, and so therefore she didn't get it, I did.

Yeah.

And that's what you're saying.

Some of it would be, yeah. And limited funds. There would only be so much of, you know, I don't expect we're going to have another pot of $3 million to be doing another program. It would be great if we do, but... Okay, number five. Continuing the down payment program, but offering it citywide, going beyond just one area for home purchases and offering it citywide. 10,000 is where we are. We have a couple of different, they can get extra money if they're a veteran or a public servant, different things. But this is really mirroring what we did with historic West Des Moines, but offering it citywide.

Okay, so that's number five idea.

Number six is a broad category with different ways to get there. So it is supporting the development of owner-occupied housing, like you all approved this tonight at 304 2nd Street. That is one way that we can support the development of owner-occupied housing. We are reimbursing for the purchase and partially for the development of those two lots. So that's one way to do it. We can look at purchasing stuff out on the open market that's on Zillow. that we find that have been out on Zillow for 60 and 90 days. We're already starting to look at those and see what's out there. And if they've been out there for a long time and the market's not picking them up, maybe we should look at it. One way to acquire. The city does own some land that we could look at developing. Controversial, and I will fully admit it, but it exists. It is a resource. We've already paid for that expense of acquiring the land. It could be developed.

Down there, don't we have a... Do either sanitary or storm sewer runs do that?

The three lots at Phoenix do not, but the PUD would need to be amended, because right now it does not allow any development on those lots.

You're sure there's no sewer, because I think there is.

I don't think so. Maybe close to the alley, but we could work around it. Alley? Just, there used to be an alley a long, long time ago through there.

Yeah, but I think that by the street is where that, but yeah, I think that's where I'm setting it at.

It's an idea. I'm bringing you all your options.

Why isn't it going to happen?

I don't understand.

We're not using our mics. It's not going to happen because we've already had that fight.

Maybe by the time I retire.

There are two neighborhood associations down there. One of them wants this. One of them doesn't.

Oh, I see.

They want the green space. They don't want the homes.

What other city lots do we own?

Not many. There is some. And so it's looking into those further of other opportunities. So that is, again, just another way. Let's fully vest all of the city-owned property, bring it all to you, do any of them really you want to look at doing. So it's just another way to get us there. If they didn't want houses there, I don't think they want... Okay, so just in general, supporting owner-occupied housing. Okay. Number seven, this is multifamily improvement. This is larger complexes. I say eight plus units but we're really thinking about the much larger ones. There's a lot of information on this slide. I sent out a survey to 43 owners of these larger properties that have rental certificates and these are their responses and you have the complete responses and survey results in your packet there. So if you want to look at it. We got 10. So it's about 23% response, which is not bad. Most of the responses were market rate property owners. You can see on the chart that I did put into the slides, the biggest repair they want to make is to heating, cooling, HVAC, and then kitchen and bathrooms, inside work. And I think our hope was maybe to do some exterior work on these properties and improve what they look like from the outside. But the feedback, I mean, it's tied for third, exterior work, but it's not their top preference. Also, they want both tax abatements and property tax rebates, which you can't do both, but you know. And they want minimal oversight.

I'm giving you the responses.

I gave you, that's why we did the survey. I really wanted to hear what was realistic, what they, what the feedback. Okay, number eight is doing a small rental rehab. one to seven units. So we're talking more of the single families, the duplexes and such. We did offer this a number of years ago with CDBG. We didn't have a single taker. We had a lot of people interested, but no one actually pulled the trigger on it.

And that's the one where we looked at going down to 60% and trying to... And there was rent, because that was federal money.

So there was federal requirements on it. But we could do this with non-federal money. And so there could be higher incomes. We could do it structured a little bit differently. We could also focus it on Valley Junction because we know they have the most single family rental units down there. So this is a very viable option. We could just structure it differently than how we did last time. And I could do another survey on just these owners to see what they might be interested in doing and what restrictions they would be okay or not okay with. Okay. All right, number nine, we're almost there. This is assisting rental housing. So we're kind of going back to those rent numbers we talked about, and this is something we do currently per request basis. So developer comes to us, they've got a project they wanna do, they want some type of assistance, and we work with them just individually as they come to us. We don't have a competitive round, we don't say we have this much pot of money, compete for it. Instead we take as requested. So we could do something a little bit differently, we can continue to do it how we are today. But if it's important to you to continue to support rental housing development, this is, There's different ways to get there, but this is the idea, is to continue to do that. Okay? Last one. Bring back upper story housing. Hear me out.

Hear me out.

Things have changed since 2020, since we did it. We now have design guidelines in place. We did the program, we have 42 units, 39 of which are affordable. They are all occupied, they're all full, people are enjoying them. This brings back new construction as an option because we have design guidelines. Let's put those design guidelines to the test if somebody truly wants to do new construction. But there still, we know, are buildings down there that have upper stories that are vacant, underutilized, and would make amazing spaces.

That's the question that I have, what you're describing right there. There's existing space, and how could that be utilized? It's just empty right now. It is. Or storage or ugly. And Kevin, that's what you're talking about. Those you really like talking about new construction. Are you talking about those vacant spaces too? Is that a curiosity, Kevin?

He's talking about both. He doesn't want any of them. I would say this, knowing where Kevin sits on this thing and trying to be respectful of that, I would say that if we did this, it would have to be a limited number of units each year. that we would agree to do number one and number two we'd have to make sure that we had parking for these folks at least one spot but I mean I would I would want to make sure no knowing how adamantly opposed he is to it And knowing how the residents feel down there, I would say it would have to be, I would be for this in a very limited dose. Only a certain number. I think some of this we'd have to do this on other things too. Limited dose. So we're going to spend, like the last one you talked about, a certain amount per unit for a development. You know, 10,000 per unit or whatever. Sure, we've got this many units that we're willing to do that with every year once we hit that Done.

That's one way to look at it. Done. Yeah, there's multiple ways to do that.

The other thing that I think that we need to do overall is we need to piggyback on state programs. We need to tap into them. With the first-time homebuyer, which has changed and I never learned the new name, with all these different things, there are different state programs. If we can make sure that we're aligning with those state programs, so like the first-time homebuyer from IFA or whatever it's called now, you qualify for that, you qualify for this, but... we piggyback on it and sweeten the pot, therefore create a better incentive for people that are first-time home buyers to come to the city of West Des Moines, rather than Grimes or Waukee or any, because we've got this that we've piggybacked on the state.

And that's what we did, certainly with that down payment, is we did piggyback on it.

And the same thing is true with some of the things that you're talking about when you're talking about income guidelines and whatnot. Let's not reinvent the wheel if you qualify for whatever, for Medicaid, for Medicare, for... free and reduced school lunch, whatever that guideline is so that if a person's out in the cold and the thing goes out, boom, there's my Medicaid card. Okay, HVAC person's on the way.

Yeah, that's fair.

Christina, which one of these do you prefer? I don't think she could tell us that.

I don't think that's great. I came up with all 10. I am good with all 10. Let's say that.

I'm happy to do all of them. One thing I want to say on this program I did, number 10, is that the reason that we didn't see anything from existing property owners on the rehab part of it is because it was so cost prohibitive to have to come up with that in some cases, million dollars plus to rehab upstairs or convert to upstairs and then get $75,000. You're making now $25,000. All you're gonna see is new construction, folks. That's all you're gonna see because you've got the investors behind the Cutlers and the Widersteins of the world that can come up with that kind of money for their $25,000 handout. And you are going to pack these chambers with people against it.

I'm just... See, there's a perfect example, though. So the state program for workforce housing tax credits is 10% of the first $150,000 worth of cost of the unit. So the state workforce housing program is giving $15,000 per unit. When we did the upper-story housing program... to Kevin's point and kind of reverse, we gave 75,000 a unit. That was one of the most lucrative programs we have ever done. So if somebody that owns the building can't participate or didn't participate in that, they're for sure not gonna participate in the 25,000. But at the same time, I'm not sure how much more lucrative we can do a program providing $75,000 per unit when the state does 15. But that's also why it's more important to piggyback on the state programs, because if I'm in the workforce housing program at the state, then I'm getting $15,000 from the state with $25,000 from the city layered on top. Number one, I want to do the development in West Des Moines and not Grimes or Waukee or Ankeny, because we have this program. And number two, that's, I mean, now I'm getting $40,000, whereas I'm only getting $15,000 per unit over there.

I think we're acknowledging how lucrative this was. It was. It was crazy. It was a lot. Ratcheting back, but it worked. This is one where I can tell you.

Well, not really, because we were trying to get some of them, and I'll use, you know, like above the theatrical shop for one, to get... get her to fix those up and take two or three of the apartments and make bigger apartments. And it was just cost prohibitive. So if you didn't see it then, you're not going to see it now. All you're going to see is more new construction, and that's not what the residents down there want.

Well, maybe we limit that to rehab instead of... new construction.

Yeah, I mean, that's a possibility too. I will tell you, we've had asks or requests on both sides, new construction and existing buildings. And these have been institutional investors, not, you know, kind of mom and pop building owners, but asking when we can bring that back again, because I think what they're saying is... That could be too, but I think what they're saying is if they're limited to two and three stories to build a new building, the construction cost gap can't be overcome with 10 years of TIF rebates.

Right. We've kind of hamstrung ourselves with the design guidelines, but that's fine. We were okay doing that because we wanted to maintain the look and feel.

I would also say on this too, I mean, and you know. But now we're going to have to pay for it. We really haven't had any significant new construction down there on the mixed use side since this program has been pulled away.

And finally, I will say, there is opportunities. There is some key buildings there that I don't, you know, when the time is right, I think we need to be ready that if it comes to us, I mean, we'll take a look at it.

Has anybody come to you? I'm just saying, I know this is not where it is, but if somebody who owns the Winchester on the second floor has like, I have space, and have they ever come to you? I don't think the Winchester is available on the second floor.

Investors let's well who cares let's dip our toe in let's do a limited number of units. Let's let's try it out and Make sure you have parking To further contextualize this conversation.

I have one more question about the stats and it's going back to It's going back to your third slide. I wasn't asking questions because that's back when we weren't asking questions and

You're a rule follower.

I was for a little while, and then we all just continued on. The question was Ankeny. Ankeny seems like a pretty fine comparison, right? We have 1,147 federally backed affordable units. I just want to know what Ankeny has.

I would have to look at their... I'm guessing it's less.

I'm guessing it's quite a bit less.

Okay. You think that, and maybe it is with the federally-backed, but Rick Tollickson and Hubbell did a whole analysis on this to figure out affordable homes in the metro, and Ankeny had more affordable homes. This is affordable rentals. Right. They had more affordable homes and rentals than we did, I think.

Older properties. So this says federally-backed affordable things. That's the specific thing, which means... We need that data.

I mean, Polk County Housing Trust Fund has that at the ready.

And then I think when we talk about our rental market statistics, like our rent is $1,226. Like what's the average rent up in Ankeny?

We'll get all that for you.

I think that's, and I'm using Ankeny just because they're similar sized. And I think we're cool and Ankeny is just really, really standard. Fair enough. Which is still high praise from.

Okay, so you have two slides that just kind of, I put all 10 on two slides so you could see them in a chart comparing them. I put possible funding sources. That is just ideas, okay?

State Council Member King as well.

We are gonna do, we're gonna do two votes. The first one is green, yellow, red. So you have 10 of each of those colors. So you are gonna put a color on all 10 ideas. Green, love it, let's explore it more. Yellow, I don't know, maybe. Red, no way. We know where Kevin's gonna put his red.

Can I have a ballpark on how much money we actually have for this? Like, is it $500,000? Is it $1.5 million?

We have nothing. Oh. If you come up with your three or four ideas, we will go back and say, how can we best pay for these? We'll come back with ideas and suggestions.

My only question is on the rental, the multifamily improvement programs. Are those property owners local or are they black? Both. All right. I'm not interested in that.

And it's not probably BlackRock. Which number were you just talking about?

It is BlackRock.

These boards are a little finicky. Just be gentle if you can.

Green, you like it. You want to explore it more. Yellow, you're not sure. Red, no way. Don't touch it. What does vote number two mean? You're going to vote twice?

Those are the... We're not doing vote number two.

Christine, what's the... Oh, number two is for another day. Yeah, that's the second round.

That's the second round. Use your stickers for... Put a sticker on every slide.

Can I put more than one sticker on a slide?

No. Not yet.

For the second one, you can. Can we put red on every one of them? Yep. If you want. You hate housing.

I hate housing. I hate kids. I hate housing. I hate education. I hate it all. I just like myself.

And flock.

We're going to get this done in 50 minutes.

Oh, for those at home, we're closing the show.

Oh, Lord. Yeah, we're just on vote number one right now. Vote number one. Vote number one. Thank you.

Something, yeah. I have this. It's purple. Guess what?

And somebody else said 42.

I've actually come around to it. I have. I said at minimum three green dots. Okay.

I don't have any yellows on any. That's okay. All green. I think I voted on all of them. Okay. Well, no. Kevin's put all his reds on that one.

I like that.

Nobody can say you don't represent. Who's got that strong view on that first story?

He's having trouble.

Oh, I'm sorry.

See you all get to have an equal say. This was the idea.

Except Matt.

I got five more stickers left for Matt.

Which one was supportive of development of owner-act? What's that one, Matt? Number six? Which, uh... Development of owner-act by housing.

That's like using... We buy lots, we, um... Like what we did tonight.

Yeah, what we did tonight.

And no one has an additional idea?

Oh yeah, we forgot to ask.

It was one, that's one of multiple strategies. Somehow we need to get Normandy Terrace Apartments to sell those lots on 16th Street. I don't know how we do that.

We've talked about that. We've had Habitat approach him as well.

He says tax liability or something. Because he's got it.

Yes. I'm number 10. Is he on wheels at 16? You guys got a this one. From 16th Street to Grand.

Normally it's all wooded.

It's beautiful. Yeah.

So my question is, in that survey, eight of the 10 respondents responded right.

You did. That tells me they're either lying.

Or they didn't know what they were getting themselves into. Who? What? What is it? The rental property owners. If you look at the survey data, it says eight out of the 10 respondents responded that they're not doing improvements because of lack of capital and lack of cash flow. I believe that. Oh, I'm not saying I don't believe it. I think it's eye-opening.

Which is why I asked the BlackRock question.

not that this is one additional idea black rock to put in a new sink in somebody's apartment additional idea uh we know that there's a lot of single family you just take that to home we incentivize him to sell it

It would fall under this. It's just another way to be able to owner-occupy. But that's an idea that we haven't thought of. Maybe it's a terrible idea.

I bet there's some people who want to get out of their grip. Like, as in, you're like, I'm sticking to this platform. I want to sell it. And you can't find somebody else to rent it. But I bet there'd be somebody to buy it for owner-occupy.

Is this vote number two?

Vote number two, and we are I'm getting 10 votes. That counts as 10 votes. That was orange meat. We each just have a different color. We do.

That's all it means.

We each have a different color.

Oh, okay. Now, vote number two.

You can put no more than two, but you have that many stickers. Five. To distribute among those that don't have X's. You've got one, two, three, four, five.

I can't believe that we're against old people all the time. I know! Do you guys want to talk about it?

Take a moment to talk about it. What did the yellow mean?