Town Council - Regular Meeting

I ask you all to rise for the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right, so we're going to open up as usual with a public comment period. I believe we have someone who wants to speak. A public comment period is an opportunity for members of the public to speak on an issue that isn't on the agenda, but allows us to hear the situation and we can act on it in the future. And we have about a three minute time limit on that. So who is first? Joshua, Jonathan Steele. Mr. Steele here. Oh, so you misunderstood. Thank you, Mr. Anguilla. So next we have Joshua Almeida wants to tell us something. Good evening.

Good evening, clerks. Greetings. I'm Joshua J. Almeida. I'm a resident of Warren, a citizen of Rhode Island, and a free American citizen. A father, a business owner, and I'm a combat veteran who served this country proudly. I took an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. The enemies I am here to point out are the enemies of the Constitution here in this very room. This entire document is about one thing, the town of Warren using police power to illegally generate revenue on church property, on private property, on the bike path, through fees, through mandatory court costs, through federal grants. Every single one of these practices is designed to illegally extract money from citizens under color of law. These violations ends tonight. Point one, church property staging. Illegal action. Officers stage on church property to ambush motorists and generate revenue. They use sacred grounds as revenue platforms. The First Amendment flatly prohibits government entanglement with religion for any purpose, including revenue. The law, First Amendment Establishment Clause, Rhode Island Constitution, Article 1, Section 3, and 5, and 6, and the RLUIPA. The remedy, cease all staging on church property immediately. Dismiss all illegal citations and violations generated from church property. Point two, private property staging. Illegal action. Officers stage on private commercial lots without written consent. They use these locations as surveillance and concealed enforcement platforms to generate revenue. most businesses are unknowing participants they do not know their property is being used for revenue operations these businesses suffer negative public perception because the public believes the business is cooperating with the police to generate revenue. This is a cooperation trap. The business appears to collude with police, damaging their reputation, while the police reap the financial benefit. The business also faces insurance liability exposure. If an accident or injury occurs on the property during unauthorized police operations, their insurance will not cover it. The town's insurance does not extend to unauthorized use of private property. Law, the Fourth Amendment, United States v. Jones, Florida v. Jardines, the Constitution prohibits warrantless trespass on private property. No implied consent cures this. Remedy, seesaw staging on private property without written consent immediately. Dismiss all citations and violations generated from private property absent written consent immediately. Publicly disclose all locations used. Notify affected businesses immediately. Point three. unauthorized practice of law, illegal action. Officers advise drivers to pay the ticket, waive their rights or consent with a good driving record, contest with a good driving record, excuse me. No matter what the driver chooses, the town still gets the money, either through the ticket payment or through mandatory court costs. The entire system is designed to ensure The town collects revenue regardless of guilt or innocent. The law. Rhode Island General Law Section 11-27-2 and 11-27-5. This is a crime carrying up to one year imprisonment. Remedy. Cease all officer legal advice on pleading or waiving constitutional rights immediately and mandatory retraining. Point four. EMS fee. Illegal action. Every citation carries a $1 EMS fee, but service is never rendered. This is pure revenue extraction. A fee charged on every citation for a service that was never provided is nothing less than fraud. Law. Fifth Amendment. Taking Clause. Rhode Island Constitution. Article 1, Section 2. Remedy. Strike the fee immediately. Immediately reimburse all who have paid this fraudulent charge absent any emergency medical services being rendered. Point five, NHTSA de facto quota system. Illegal action. Federal grants condition police funding on enforcement metrics. Citation numbers, arrests, seatbelt counts. This creates de facto ticket quotas that drive revenue generation. The town is incentivized to maximize citations to keep federal money flowing. The entire staging operation on church and private property exists to feed this revenue machine. Law, 23 United States Code Sections 402 and 405. 18 United States Code Section 666. R.I. General Law Section 31-27-25, which explicitly prohibits ticket quotas. Remedy. Disclose all grant agreements. End quota-driven enforcement immediately. Reject grant conditions on enforcement metrics. Stop awarding officers for violating rights. Point six. Court costs on innocent defendants. Illegal action. Defendants who beat their ticket still pay mandatory court costs. This is a penalty on the exercise of constitutional rights. Pure revenue extraction from citizens who did nothing wrong. Law. 14th Amendment Due Process Clause. Rhode Island Constitution Article 1, Section 5. Griffin vs. Illinois. Remedy. Strike all costs imposed on acquitted or dismissed defendants. Full refund of all costs collected. Point seven. SUVs on East Bay bike path. Illegal action. Police SUVs operate on the East Bay bike path for non-emergencies and routine calls. A path reserved exclusively for pedestrians and cyclists. This is part of the same revenue generation machine maximizing enforcement presence everywhere. The town's insurance will not cover injuries or accidents from operations conducted outside lawful authority. Law, RI general law section 31-21.2-5, RIDM regulations. Remedy, cease all non-emergency motor vehicles on the bike path immediately. Every official who permitted these violations has knowingly breached their oath to the Constitution. The town's insurance carrier must be notified that coverage may be void for operations conducted outside lawful authority and without proper consent. Resignation is the only honorable course for those who have continuously and openly betrayed their sacred oath to the people and the Constitution. Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin. The eyes of the people are upon you. History will record your response. Choose now. Cease the violations immediately and uphold your oath or resign from the position you aren't fit to serve. Thank you.

Thank you very much for bringing those points forward. We don't have a response for you this evening. Our solicitor will get back in touch with all the points you made out. And sorry about your feelings this way, but...

It's not my feelings. It's the right that affects every person in this room, including yourself, sir. But thank you for your time.

I mean bringing this forward, your feelings that brought this forward. Thank you for your participation. Okay, next we have... The presentation, Elizabeth Canfield, Public Affairs Specialist, Field Operations Center, East Office of Field Operations and Disaster Recovery, Office of Disaster Recovery and Resilience, U.S. Small Business Administration. Good evening. You're going to give us an overview of the Disaster Loan Program for small businesses and nonprofits with economic losses from the February blizzard.

Yes, and my name is Monica Miles. I'm substituting for my colleague, Elizabeth Canfield, who unfortunately had a family emergency, so she had to go home.

Let's hope she's okay.

Yes, yes. The U.S. Small Business Administration wants to make sure that all businesses and private nonprofit organizations in the state of Rhode Island are aware that they can apply for a low interest rate disaster loan. as a result of the snowfall that occurred back on February 22nd through the 24th of this year, if they believe that as a direct result of the snowstorm, they are not able to pay their ordinary and necessary expenses in order to keep their business or nonprofit going. The SBA has disaster loans up to $2 million. per applicant. Of course, it's based upon what the needs are and what the applicant can afford to pay back. The SBA's loans for the business are at 4%. And for the private nonprofit organization, it is 3.625%. And for small agricultural cooperatives, it's also a 4% interest rate. The loans do not cover any kind of physical damage to the business property, neither the real estate nor the other property that a business may own. However, it's the economic injury that is being covered. provided through the loan, such as because of the snowstorm, roads were closed, businesses closed perhaps for a few days, clients were not able to come into the stores or businesses, And as a direct result of those type of things, including maybe the business not being able to get its own supplies, the business is not able to pay all of its ordinary and necessary bills, such as its payroll, its rent or mortgage, its income taxes, things of that nature. It's not for the any kind of property damage. And the business does not have to pay an application fee in order to apply for the loan. The loan does not accrue in any interest during the first year of the loan. And the first payment is not due on the loan until one year from the date of the first proceeds that the applicant would get on the loan. The deadline to apply is March 10th of 2027. And also during that period of time, an applicant, if they need it and show to the SBA that this is necessary, they are able to get more than one loan. So if they think initially or show, show evidence that they need, say, you know, $20,000, and then a couple of months or so later, they realize they need some additional money in order to be able to pay its bills, they can make another application up through that March 10, 2027. deadline date. The applicants can apply online with the SBA. We have one website, sba.gov forward slash disaster, and that gives a lot of general information about disaster loans. And then if somebody is ready to actually submit an application for an economic injury disaster loan, which we also call EIDL loan, they can go to https://lending.sba.gov. And your town clerk has put a lot of SBA's information in the back of the room and very much appreciate it. And that the information is on those paperwork as well.

And we'll pass this along to the Chamber of Commerce. And Ms. Cronin is part of the business. Go right ahead, Ms. Cronin.

I just have a question. You mentioned at the beginning of your presentation that the funds would be for the February snowstorm, exclusively that, not the March?

Yes, just the February snowstorm from February 22nd through the 24th.

Because the March snowstorm was more impactful to our small business community than the February snowstorm.

Well, the only thing I know about that is that your state did apply for a declaration with the SBA for the February one. I don't know if they applied for March or not, but the SBA did grant it for February. Maybe they did also apply for March and it wasn't approved. I'm not sure. Or it could be still pending. Sometimes it takes a little while.

Are there any further questions?

And just one quick other little thing is that the term of the loan is usually 30 years. If somebody wants to pay it sooner than that, they can do so. But the term of the loan is typically 30 years.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

Thank you all very much.

Next, we have reappointments. And up for appointment is the Budget Committee, Sheila Raposa. And it's a three-year term. Is there a motion? Second. All in favor? Aye. Thank you. Next, we have interviews for the Affordable Housing Committee. There is one position available. no one has applied. Economic Development Board, three positions available, no one's applied. Juvenile Hearing Board, one alternate position, no one's applied. Planning Board has two alternate positions, no one has applied. Tax Board of Assessment, two positions, no one's applied. And the Zoning Board, one position, no one has applied. We do have two resignations. We have a resignation from budget committee member Mark Fattardo and the arts and cultural commission member Juliette Castleman.

I would make a motion that we send letters of recognition to those members and also that we advertise all of the open positions, including the two blue ones with these resignations.

There's a second. All in favor? Aye. Thank you. Moving on, we have the minutes. We have acceptance of the June 9th, 26 regular scheduled meeting minutes.

Second.

And I think I wasn't there, correct?

Correct.

Correct. And all in favor?

Aye. Okay. I abstain. Next, we have the special meeting minutes of June 30th, which I was in attendance. Is there a motion to approve?

Second.

All in favor? Aye. Thank you. Moving right along, we have petitions. P1, it's a request for a mobile food establishment permit. George's Grill Food Truck. Is Kathleen Hequist and George O'Toole here? Come on down, please. Okay, representative of the business? Mr. DeSisto, is that okay? Tell us a little bit about yourself and what you want to do.

So George would like to have, this is for the food truck, the community, Joseph Noble.

So he's got two things. Right. So what you're applying for now is a permit to do business in Warren. Right. so with your food truck community night out well that would be next right well that's the event the food truck is requesting it is but you don't have a license in town so first we're granting you a if you that's that's what you want you want us to grant you a mobile food truck uh permit then you're going to be talking about the event so what do you sell in your food truck American cuisine, hamburgers, hot dogs, French fries, mozzarella sticks, sodas, waters. Nice. And you're certified by the state? You have your health inspection? Yes. Okay. Is there a motion to approve?

We approve the mobile food establishment permit. Second.

Okay, now we're going to... All in favor? All in favor, thank you. So now we're going to go to P4, and you're looking for an entertainment license, and that is for the date of September 26th from 11 a.m. to 3 p.m., and it's at Burr's Hill, and this is a rally for recovery. And the entertainment will be Young Neil and the Vipers, and that sounds correct, right? It is hell of a not the same event.

That's when you night out in Warren. The license for the food truck. That's the event. The food truck will be at the permit.

The license, in other words, now you can go to events in Warren. Okay. I think what you're talking about is an event that you have nothing to do with except you're going to go there with your food truck. They already got their permit?

Community out and laid out in Warren. Yes, that's all set up.

But Mr. O'Toole is also applying for a function of his own on the 26th, different date. Correct. So this is September 26th from 11 to 3 at Birds Hill Park. Yes. It's a... It's... I'll second. Police Chief, they've come to you and you're aware of the event? So is it contingent on your approval with the design down there?

It's the same design.

Okay. And the fire chief will probably be in touch. He's not here this evening. So we'll make a motion contingent on the approval. And there's a motion.

I'll motion that.

And a second.

Second.

All in favor? Aye. Thank you. Thank you. You're all set. Next, we have a mobile food establishment permit for Brian Honey. Is Kayla Rosenberg here? Hi. So Kayla, tell us a little bit about yourself and what you're doing.

Yep, I have a mobile food trailer. It's licensed all in Aquinnick Island, but we'd love to do the Warren concert series on Sunday nights. So we're trying to get our Warren license.

So you're already up and established your state permits.

Everything for the state.

Are there any questions for Ms. Rosenberg?

Cheese boards and Italian chips.

That sounds damn good. I'll take a motion. I'll second it, but I have a question.

Go ahead, discussion.

How many light units did you let out?

There are a number we have a number are we pretty much we have a list and we have a list for the things that are going on around town that they're on that list whoever wants them they don't have a license to the town all of them that have come to you already have a license to the state again I don't have a problem with a license I'm just curious how many people I think the question is whether or not a modern MFD is more than a cap the answer is no

So we have a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Good luck. Thank you. Next, we have an MFE from Manta, Peter Pocket. Mamut Toprak. Mr. Toprak, yeah, hello. And what are you doing?

We're moving food lines.

And the food is what kind of food? Mediterranean. Nice. And you have frozen bananas, huh?

Yeah.

All right. Any questions?

Make the motion to approve the Peter pocket. Second, all in favor. Good luck.

Next, we have the entertainment license, which we've taken care of. Now we're going to go to Miss for our Nicole, come on down. How are you? I'm okay. That's good. So tell us about your event, what you're doing and what you want from us.

So we are gathering at Birds Hill Park on a week from this Saturday, July 25th. We're doing a free concert. Everything's free. The only thing people will have to pay for that day, I want food in the food trucks, but we're bringing the community together. It's a bunch of churches, pastors, and leaders in ministry in the East Bay. We've been meeting for quite some time now and decided to do this. This will be our first time doing something like this in the town. We're hoping to have some good numbers, but we have no idea how many people will show up the first year. But so what happened was the last time we came, we thought it was just going to be a couple of people in the band and now it's grown to nine. And then the other thing was we added a petting zoo. So we just wanted to, you know, let you guys know everything that we're doing, make sure we're getting everything straight.

That was going to be what I jumped to. The band doesn't surprise me as much as your plan. So Miss Hunt here, right here, she'll wave her hand at you. She's our DPW director. So they'll let you know where you can put your petting zoo. Oh, OK. And I'm sure it's a fenced in circle. I'm sure it has to be.

Yeah. Baby things. There's we check there's goats, chicks and bunnies.

So you're going to need to have a separate enclosure and you're going to need your own insurance binder.

We provided a copy of the insurance binder.

These are just questions that I ask to make sure that whatever you've submitted is in and appreciated. Any questions? All right, motion.

I'll take a motion we approve pending approval of DPW director, fire and police chiefs. I'll second that motion.

Yeah, we got fire and police chiefs.

All right, so you'll be on set. Just make sure you touch base.

Okay, so wait a minute. When do we deal with this young woman on that day?

You can call her beforehand. And as long as you know what your plan is, she knows the park.

She'll show us.

Yeah, she'll be able to help you with that. What about garbage disposal?

Yeah, that we wanted to know. Do I have to get rid of that myself? Possibly. Okay, yeah, that's what we figured. I asked Tara, but she wasn't sure.

Yeah, so animal droppings, if there are any. And Ms. Hunt, do we have a truck that would go down there for them to put the bags in? So we'll have one of our small dump trucks there. And that basically is your dumpster. So it's up to you to get it all from, you know, you know what to do, Nicole.

Yeah, no, I mean, I was going to go to the dump myself.

So that's... No, we'll make that easier for you.

Good, thank you.

Okay, so is there a motion?

Hold on a second.

All in favor? Any other questions?

No, no. I hope to see you somewhere. Come see us. Yeah, we'll see you there. All right. See you there.

See if I can get bitten. Okay. Next, P6. Request for a one-day entertainment license from Mr. Oliveira. Mr. Oliveira here. I'm going to recuse myself. This is my girlfriend's property, and she's a co-participant. So take over, Kerry.

All right.

Good evening.

Good evening. Please introduce yourself.

Yes, my name is David Oliveira. I am the president of Warren Citizens for Appropriate Development. And we're planning on the 29th of August. We have chosen a rain date the next day because this is going to be an outdoor event. We're going to have a concert from 2 to 6 as a fundraiser towards our group and, you know, our cause. Okay. housing situation warrant. So that's basically what we're doing.

Sounds good. Any questions from the council?

Make a motion. We approve the one-day entertainment license.

I'll say, I just had one quick question. This is not the first time. You did this last year, if I'm not mistaken.

Is that correct? Last year, not at Winslow. We did an event in, that was March, that was at Freyrich Farm.

I see. I'm mistaken, but it was a little different. Thank you very much.

All righty, we have a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

All right, I'm back. Next, we have a request for a one-day entertainment license from Amber Ramey and Gary Jackson. And this is for a 250th Celebration Neighborhood Block Party. And that's going to be over at 65 Bacher Avenue to 2 Riverview Avenue. Hello. So you're participating in our sponsored events and let us know what you plan on doing.

So I'm Kerry Jackson. So as part of the whole 250th celebration committee and the opportunity that they gave us, we're looking to host a small community event at the corner of Barker and Riverview streets. Um, we'll have my, uh, father-in-law's band playing. It's a six piece member band, um, and just getting the local community in the Barker, uh, middle street, West street and Brady street area, um, just to attend, have a little potluck and enjoy some music in the middle of the day.

Have you discussed the plan with the police or fire?

So my wife has discussed with the, uh, Lieutenant Ferrera, um, concerning, um, How the road would be blocked off and everything that we have not discussed with fire because, especially because there's the barker facility. That we would have to address there, but.

Well, what we're going to do is we're going to give you approval contingent on speaking with, again, with police and fire. So even though you spoke with them now, they're always communicating within themselves. And saw horses, if you need from DPW on whatever we can do to help. It's a post-sponsored event. So we appreciate you taking advantage of this. Any questions?

Make a motion we approve the one-day entertainment license pending police and fire approval.

Second. Mr. Rager, you had a question?

No, I'm going to second.

All in favor? Aye. I'll see you there. Great. I'll stop in. Next, we have... Request for a class BB beverage license. So what we're going to be going through now is basically a correction of language as it was put on business license and we're going to be correcting this.

Yes. Go related.

I'm going to, and Mr. St. Angelo's here, if anyone has any questions. All of the proper paperwork has been filed. Evidently, we were calling them Via Porta. They're really Porta Via.

We approved all of these. We approved them all. Yes. I'm going to make a motion to approve P8 through P11 for the name change to Porta Via instead of Via Porta. Can we do that in a group? Yes, you can.

Mr. Trombley, second that. All in favor? Aye. And then the one thing we want you to know is there have been no more complaints, but the doors were open one night. The music was loud. Somebody did call a complainant. Just letting you know, everything's been solved since then. So we're happy with it. The pizza is great. I think the pizza is good. Sandwiches are good. Keep up the good work.

Thank you. Oh, it's very good. Thank you.

See you, Michael. Next, we have a request for a victim license. This is an eSource Inc. doing business as Blue Water Vintage. It's Mr. Gene Fontaine here. Come on down and let us know what you plan on doing and where you want to do it.

Sure. Good evening.

Hi. My name's Gene.

We're looking to open a, we are opening a vintage and antique store over on 18 Child. And what we're looking to do is incorporate a bar lounge area in this store. It's a nice, interesting, unique concept that we have, and we're looking to combine two things that people like, which is to shop and socialize. It's going to be a very defined space. I made up some plans here. Can I hand those out? Yes, please. I think it's better if you guys get a visual.

Do they include the outside at all?

They don't. Okay. There's a plan due. That looks painful.

Oh, that's what I live with.

Don't get burned. Yes.

It doesn't go all the way through anymore. It used to go through to market. It no longer does. Okay, so we are looking at a pretty picture.

Tell us what... Yeah, so what this is going to do, like I said, it's going to combine a... A vintage and antiques store business with a bar and a lounge. Now, as you can see from the layout here on the first page, this is a proposed construction, by the way. So construction hasn't really started on this. We're holding off to get the approval of the license. So basically what you're seeing is we're going to divide the space you see to the right hand side. There's kind of a short half wall there. And if you look on the second page with the kind of 3D three-dimensional look which is looking from the bar into the space you're going to see we're going to integrate some windows we found some great uh great windows that went with the building that the landlord's going to let us use these are some divided lights and we're going to make this whole dividing wall corner and then there's going to be a banquette surrounding that and so what this is going to do is create some nice sight lines from the bar lounge area into the store and vice versa I think it's important though to understand that the way we've designed this is is that we're not going to allow food and beverages in the store area. So this is going to be a delineated or defined area. And the idea is is that this is going to complement, you know, our vintage business so I'd like to give you a little bit of background about what I've been doing. This is your opportunity to shine. Fabulous. So I'm a longtime business operator. I've had a corporation that's been active for almost 30 years, coming up on 30 years. I did a different business that's kind of unrelated to this supply chain, but I had developed an ancillary business in antiques and vintage, which is a passion of mine. So I've been running a vintage business for almost 15 years, going on almost 20 years. And the way this is developed, I have two retail spaces at the Rhode Island Antiques Mall. I think you guys are probably familiar. Everybody familiar with that? On the Pawtucket line there. It's a big... Big Antiques Mall on the Pawtucket line. And there's quite a few dealers in that space. But we've developed a couple of marquee spaces in there that have become very popular. Been there for almost 10 years. and there's kind of two sides to what we do there. I have two different spaces. One of them, uh, we do a lot of pop culture vintage where we do pulp kind of stuff. We do a lot of stuff with movie culture, posters, records, ephemera, pinups. We do like a lot of fun stuff, fun, colorful stuff in there. And then the other side, we have a high end antiques, uh, and, and, um, decorative arts space that we do. So we have a little light showroom in there. We have chandeliers. We have different pendant lighting. We have floor lamps. We do mid-century and modern furniture. We do art. We do a lot of gilt mirrors. We're known for that. As well as we do jewelry and some kind of old Hollywood type of glamour stuff. So we get frequented a lot by designers and people come to us who are, let's say, renovating a house and they're looking to put lighting in and so forth. Both of these spaces in their own ways have become very popular. And the idea with both of them was to kind of hit know a whole range we wanted to hit a whole range of different price points um as well as you know different uh different styles and so forth so it's it's a very eclectic uh mixture but it's very curated our thing is a curated collection and so it really has a strong vision behind it uh and hence i think the popularity so this is really we we looking at an expansion here and I've always been I've been a long-term East Bay person so I owned a house in Barrington for many many years you know very familiar with Warren always liked the antique scene also in Warren which you know some of that has disappeared a little bit but there are a few small places still hanging in there So when this space became available and it was a reasonable rent, which is really what we needed to make this work, I kind of jumped on it. And what we're looking to do there, we're looking to do something really special. We're doing a full renovation. The bar piece is going to be very attractive. We're going to kind of marry what we do in the antique space. So for instance, we acquired a very beautiful 1800s back bar piece. We're going to do a custom bar. That back bar piece was in a mansion in Boston It also had a lot of architectural elements, panels, and different things. So we're going to build out, we'd like to build out that whole bar space with that environment. And then we're going to integrate it like you see here with this lounge aspect. It's going to be a very clean build out, something that we think, you know, is really going to be a great addition to what's happening in Warren.

Before I open up to other people, I'm going to ask you a few questions. I'm sure they'll build off of it.

All right.

So what's your primary focus? Do you want to be a restaurateur? Do you want to have a bar or do you want to sell antiques? You have three things going on here. Well, it's in a very dense space.

Yeah, it is a focus. It is. But again, I'm going to say that it's design. What we're looking to achieve is more of a symbiotic type of relationship. So if you can if you can kind of visualize this and one last thing that I wanted to say before I get into it, our popularity at the Antiques Mall is going to be a feeder. So we're looking to maintain those spaces over there. And we're going to use it as a marketing vehicle to kind of sell Warren and what we're doing over here. And as you know, I mean, you know, if you're local, East Bay is great, but it can be a little bit of drive for people to make the trip over here. So we're looking to make it enticing. We wanted this to be kind of a destination place. So by having this. Bar, the great thing about antiques and vintage is it's all about history and it's all about the culture. And people who go and look at these products, they're interested in the history and the culture and they want to talk about it. So it generates a lot of discussion, a lot of socializing. It's a real natural to then have this bar lounge entertainment space where people People can come in. They're looking to discover the shop. They come, let's say, to look at our lighting showroom. And they say, oh, it's great. We can sit down here and have a beer and have a bite to eat. They can talk about that. On the other hand, you can come by, see our beer sign. We're looking to do a very unique thing there. My guy likes to do uncommon stuff. So we're looking to have imported beers on tap, uncommon types of things that you don't ordinarily see. We're kind of got a little bit of a German theme going and that we're going to do a menu of brats, different bratwurst and so forth. Maybe some panini sandwiches. So maybe you stop in for a sandwich and a beer. And then, but you get to see all this stuff and you say, oh, cool, look at that. And you get interested and then you want to go in and you want to do a little bit of a shop. One of the reasons I'm doing this to go directly to your point is is that antiques can be slow. They're up and down. And so from a business standpoint, not only do I think this is a really neat concept from a consumer standpoint and that they're going to be interested in it. And by the way, we've got fabulous feedback from anybody that we've talked about this. They're kind of over the moon about it. I've got at least 100 email addresses. That's cool.

How many of them asked you about where your dumpster is going to be?

Right. No, and we're going to address that. Yeah, absolutely. We want to address that. Where will your dumpster be? We're not going to have a dumpster. We're going to use barrels.

Where will your barrels be? We walked the property yesterday.

Okay.

The alleys are actually, we're going to be having the building official and the fire marshal go over there.

Yeah.

We're very concerned about the congestion. In that block, interestingly enough, that block has in my lifetime and probably further never had a restaurant. So go across the street, yes. Go across the street to market to the north, yes. But that block has never had a restaurant. That particular. That particular. So there are some physical limitations that I'm not sure how you're going to overcome.

Yeah, so let me, and that's, I'm glad you brought that up. I knew you were going to bring that up, actually, you know, of course. And so I've also given a lot of thought to that. And, you know, over a long business career, I'm a solutions guy. So, you know, there's problems. You got to try to figure out a solution. I mean, sometimes there may not be, but in this case, I believe there is. And we've given a lot of thought to it. So I agree with you that that alleyway right now, is kind of a mess and whether or not there was a you know whether or not there's a bar going in there or anything it has to be addressed uh because yes it is a problem it's occupied by your neighbor's barrels already and you can't walk through it exactly so it's um So it doesn't seem. So here's what I want to do about it. OK, try to enlighten me. No, I know. I know what I looked at yesterday. Give me a shot. Believe me, I've done nine a million times, too. So absolutely. And it is a challenge, but I don't think it's unsolved. So one, that alleyway, which goes all the way back, there's a couple of things going on. So there's, there's some junk, a little bit of junk and stuff in the back of that alleyway. Okay, so the first thing that needs to be done and we're going to take it on ourselves so we have the initiative, we have the incentive we're going to get it done. So we're going to go in, we're going to clean up that entire alleyway. Right now, what you have is you have barrels from, you have a set from the upstairs tenants and you have a set, as you mentioned, from the adjacent building, which I'm with all the plants. Yeah. I think with all the plants, I think, I think that's a private residence. I don't know. I think so. So anyway, what we're going to do is two things. One of the, one of the primary things that will solve the immediate issue is is the exit, the rear exit in that alleyway is about two thirds down the building. So one of the things, and it needs to be, as we all know, that needs to be an open egress state. I'm going to be sending the building official over there tomorrow because I don't think a person can walk down it. Yeah, they can't right now. And you're calling it an exit. No, that's right. And I'm also calling it out because I immediately recognized the problem there. I appreciate that. So what we're looking to do is I'm going to clean that alleyway in the back. The barrels need to be moved to the back up behind the egress door, the exit door, which there is room. And then that alleyway needs to be completely clear.

Do you know the width of that alley?

I don't know the exact width. I'm guessing when I have a picture of it.

Oh, yeah. Okay. It's about an inch wider than a barrel.

Yeah. So there's two things.

I'm not even going to speak for the building official. Okay.

What I'm looking at in the picture is probably not a required means of egress. So it doesn't need to meet all of the codes of a required means of egress. It looks like he has one in the front, one in the back.

He's going to store all his batteries.

Well, yeah, I would say you can't do this one. I would say that it's more of a fire hazard. Yeah. I mean, it's not wide enough to meet code for a means of egress, but it wouldn't be a required means of egress because he's got one in the front and one in the back already. Yeah. two is all you would need. That would be a convenience exit for lack of a better term. I got some questions.

Go right ahead.

I mean, how many people are you seeing? Are these tables here? Yeah.

Those are short little cocktail tables. So that's a banquette. If you look on that second sheet, you can see it better. You can get a better idea. And those tables look solid in that. It's just the way that they're little wire tables.

So you don't really have many. Your seating is not much. You've got, what, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Call it 26 mats.

Yeah, we had about, no, we have a little more than that. Well, let's see what I had here. We had seating capacity max of about 40 persons. Where? Well, we had, that's some standing room, too. So if you imagine, what you have is you've got roughly 10 to 15, 12 to 15 at the bar, 10 to 15.

Over here, we have daughter's saloon. Is this area for patrons? No. That's the back room there.

That's the salon. There is a nail salon directly behind.

Okay, now, so over here, so right here, this is a house. This is a wall. Now, it's going to be a wall with windows on top, as you see in the second sheet. This is the bar. This is a kitchen. So there's a door here, and this is a door down here.

He said you wanted to keep one of the retailers.

No, right here. So you have, okay, so let me explain. So you have, this is the bar, obviously. This gray that you see here all the way around, that's the banquette that you can sit in. Right. So this is seated all the way around. Still don't see the cord.

These are low. No, no. And actually what just got brought to my attention, which is the biggest concern, is that door doesn't exit the market street?

No. It goes to a snail salon.

So to build on Mr. Hanley's question, so you don't actually have a door in the back of that space that gets you outside?

No, you would have to go through the salon. And that's why our what we're looking what we're saying our second egress is, is the side door for the alley. And that's why. So I want to just where is that?

Is that close at all?

Well, I'd like to expand. I didn't get to really kind of finish with the possibilities.

Make it a picture how wide it is. 44 inches wide. You don't have that.

Or an egress? Let me just explain something. We appreciate your enthusiasm. Presentation and all. We're going to probably not be able to rule on this this evening. Because the questions that you're bringing to us, Ms. Cronin and I were there yesterday.

Yes.

I can't imagine somebody in an emergency, not even handicapped, trying to come out of that alley. And it's where you're saying you're going to store your barrels. There's no other place I can see.

Okay, let me just add to that for a minute.

Mr. Hanley is a builder, just so you know. He's the building official. I was the one that signed the CO. Is that right?

He understands the law.

He's a famous actor that has it.

it still goes there yeah that's right you're absolutely right you're absolutely right so um no i'm not i i just want to explain some of the potential options well we're trying to explain some of the potential hazards i get that as it's seeing i want to ask a question okay just to get a clarification please ask a question so okay and to mr hanley here too i guess Oh, yeah. 2M.

I'm not the building official on that. No, no, no.

I get it. I get it.

I get it. I get it.

We're all just kind of searching this up. He understands the process better than any of us. Right. So go right ahead. That's fine. This is a discussion. It is. So I guess clarification from you would be, let's assume no barrels at all. Okay? Okay. Are you saying, though, that that couldn't be used as a fire exit?

You should have an architect look for a code compliance on this because, hey, depending on your occupant load, you may not need two exits. Your occupant load can travel distance. You may not need two exits. You could never use that as a required means of egress because it's not wide enough. You're so close to the other building. Suppose the other building catches on fire first. You're going to send people through the alley where the building's on fire? No, but that's why that wouldn't count. You've got a bunch of things wrong using that as a means of egress. Now, an architect could look at this and say, hey, this is my occupant load. This is my travel distance. I don't need two means of egress. That burden is on you, not us.

Right.

He can't make that conclusion. And also, he can work out with more of what your occupant vote is. Because by looking at this, it's so hard to judge your occupant vote. Because you've got so many square foot for standing and so many square foot for tables and chairs. You've got them both going.

Yeah.

So this is all way, way extremely hypothetical. And by state law, if you submit this permit, it's going to have an architect standing. So you might as well probably engage an architect. He can come up with a plan, show us. Because I think you're suggesting putting the trash barrels over here. in this area?

No, no. So what I was going to say in addition to this is that there's a couple of options, potential options. I'm not saying they're options. They're options. Yeah, the thing we're exploring right now. So the landlord is very cooperative and has been very supportive of this. So what he's going to do is, which I think is important, and maybe we can get this set up for the next meeting, He's going to do a survey, have a survey done also of the property because he wants to see exactly what the borderline is for the landing. Because on the other side, they own the nail salon. And on the other side, there's also like a shared drive between those two. But potentially there's space. There's a lot more space on that side. And we could move barrels over there.

Just so you know, building official will be going there also. There's all sorts of construction debris. No, not on that side. I'm letting you just know that all of the properties that you're talking about, unfortunately, have a storage problem. And they're utilizing these alleys as storage. So there's decking material and lumber storage. all in one alley. Then you go to, that used to be the old recording studio. So now you're sharing the wall where you're talking about with the nail salon.

I mean, every- Yeah, but on the other, where the construction material is, that's on the corner facing the parking lot. Correct. Municipal parking lot. Correct. I'm actually and that was one other potential option was that we were going to maybe also see if the owner of that property.

So what you need to do is instead of coming in front of us with potential options, you come in front of us with signed agreements. Yeah. And then the next step would be if you're interested in trying this. That whole area is, we've been struggling for years trying to get it cleaned up because what ends up happening is the building considers Child Street the front. And then the back Market Street looks at a dumpster, which is always full, and a pile of lumber and all that. We try not to heavily burden someone who is trying to do construction with maintaining the proper law, the position of law. But... It's been like that for a while. Now that we're looking at this area, it's coming to our attention again. And once it comes to our attention, we can't ignore it. I agree. Mr. Cabral is going to be over there.

So if we could hold this over.

There's nothing negative happening to you. Yeah. Okay.

And I understand that oftentimes applicants... They like to get their permits and their licenses before they go ahead and start spending money.

That's right.

But in this instance, I think what you're going to need to do is you're going to need to have more information. And this isn't something that you can go on a concept. So my suggestion here would be to allow the applicant to withdraw his application. You got some good feedback here. so that he can come back with a different plan that will address these issues. I think that's what you need to do.

Can I just make a comment on that? What I would prefer to do, if we can, is I would like to keep the application in. I've heard what the issues are.

This is to your advantage. Let me just say, I've heard- I know, but you don't understand the process. It's to your advantage to withdraw it. Oh, you think I should withdraw it? Yeah, you're starting fresh. You're coming back. If you keep it here, it doesn't serve any purpose.

If it was just the building and fire code issues, I'd have no problem if you wanted a license because then you're still going to satisfy them. If you can't do what you want to do, even though you've got the license, you can't open it. My biggest concern is I want to see where are you going to put the trash? If you're going to have a storage here and take it every night, I want to see that. If you're going to store it over there where you have the lease, I want to see that you have the lease.

But my question is about withdrawing the application. The issue with that is, is there's very limited licenses. So I don't want to lose.

You wouldn't be retaining a position in line.

You wouldn't even even to come back if I can solve these issues by the next meeting.

And no one else asks for a license. Sure.

So there's no way that can be on hold.

We can't assign it to you because you're not in accordance with the law.

If we had to go around it tonight, we'd vote to deny it. I believe we'd vote to deny it. Yeah, we would take you out of the line.

The neighborhood is crammed right now.

No, and I appreciate it.

We would appreciate you to do the best business you possibly can and more, and you just have to figure out how to do it.

All right, let me ask you this question then. Go right ahead. Let's say, if the bar component, so is the bar component irrelevant? No. I'd like to ask you a question. Go right ahead.

If you are denied the bar component, If we say, no, you may not serve alcohol in that space, would that change your business plan?

Well, it would. Drastically, we could open as just a shop. But my question is, because what my understanding of some of these issues are is that this relates really to fire and to other important topics.

Trash.

So occupancy. This got a, but it did get a sign off the last time when it was a store. Yeah.

If it was just for the retail space, we'd be having this discussion because that's what it was before. You're adding the vigilant, which is the food, and you're adding the box. You're changing the use. Adding either one of those increases your trash burden. It also increases your intensification under the building environment.

And requires you to ask for permission because you're changing the use. So if this was just for the... Well, we did get that, by the way.

We went to zoning and we got the approval on the change of use.

It's not really because without a license, you can't do it. So we're trying to give you the best information we can. What Mr. DeSisto said is a lot of times people want to get ahead of it thinking that it secures their opportunity, but you end up spending a lot of money. No, I get that.

I'm just trying to understand if there's any way it can be put on the shelf until I fix these issues and come back.

The idea is on the shelf. We can't just put a license.

But I mean, and hold the place for the license. Don't withdraw. I'm going to make a motion to deny your FD. Yeah.

Okay. All right. No, fair enough. Then we'll have to withdraw.

Okay.

So that would be all three applications, pinball machine, big trillion license, and BVL liquor license.

I'll make a motion.

Yes, Mr. Rago. Would you be interested in doing this without the liquor license, without having a bar, or would it not work for you?

No, it is a potentiality, but it is a potentiality that was the original, original idea. However, from, you know, the business model and everything that we've done, because we have put a lot of effort into that. And like, as I said, from a business perspective, we really wanted that second revenue. So the answer is, yes, we can still open as a shop.

The reason I bring this up is because I'm joyous and diligent. You may realize that it is safe.

I guess I need to know from the council, let's say if we took the bar piece out of it for now, we withdraw the application.

The agenda you have on here tonight relates to the retail use. All of the three items you have on the agenda tonight relate to the BDL license, the Victorian license, and the pinball machine. That's where the council has their jurisdiction. So that's why that has to be withdrawn. These other issues, that's something for you to consider. If you decide that you don't want to have this tattered aspect to it, then you proceed in another regulatory scheme. You're not going to come here.

So you do believe, though, that we could go and do that, though. We could still get a fire, a fire sign off.

I don't know. OK, I'm not ready to give an opinion on that. And I'm going to tell you why. It took a look at your plans from the plans you presented. I can't tell.

We're going to wrap it up with Mr. Trombley, Miss Cronin. And then I think we're going to hear from Mr. Hanley.

Yes, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Fontaine, for coming before us tonight. I think one of the issues that you had mentioned that wasn't part of the main discussion was sort of the other BVL stores and businesses in the area. And I know Ms. Cronin and Mr. Rego brought that up. But for me, just because it's already in a very densely populated part of town, we already have a number of bars and restaurants in that area. Richardson's is right next door. And then the new portavia or via porta i can't remember uh which one we don't know we don't know any um i i think for me my biggest concern is that this sort of the bvl businesses start to cannibalize each other and and none of the and makes everyone less successful so i would be very hesitant to approve a bvl uh license for any business that came in in that general area does that make sense

Well, I think I would have an answer to it, but I don't think we're really going to need to discuss it tonight.

Understandable. I just wanted to communicate that to you.

That's an opinion.

What were your, if everything got approved and you get the doors open with everything you want, what are your hours going to be?

Uh, well, what we did was with at the zoning board, we got approved for full hours. And then the idea was, uh, we've done some reconnaissance in warrant to, and we know it gets, it gets quiet, you know, in a lot of the evenings. So we were then going to see gauge what the demand was and then prune back the hours to meet that the store part was always going to close at about six o'clock. And then that retail part, uh, would come down, the lights would come down on that, would be a roped off area, and the lounge would continue.

It's interesting that you bring that up. Are you done?

Well, I just... Because you really puzzled by your proposal here that we before plan. This is very confusing here where you have the bar and the lounge and the food and whatnot and the retail area in the front. And then you're going to it's just it's almost.

Well, what's puzzling about it?

I think it's best that we stop. Yeah, I don't think you said that the bar was going to enhance your business. the shopping and now you said that the bar is going to stay open after the shopping. So I'm getting confused and I don't want to get a negative feeling on this.

It's also back to the fact that it's a very densely populated area. You've got retail and residential right there and the idea that we're going to be approving a business that's going to be creating more sort of, you know, nighttime activity in that very tight space is concerning. And we have from our small business community, which I am a member of, We've gotten a lot of pushback from other small businesses who are in the food and beverage community who just think that we've got enough. And I applaud somebody coming forward with a good idea and want to be supportive of it. But this just feels a little gilding of the lily to me. But if you withdraw and you come back and the plans make sense,

i think you'll have an uh uh uh an open ear here okay why don't you do that i think that you're gonna have less hypothetics and more plan mr hanley i'm ready to make a motion go right ahead i'm gonna make a motion with the uh allow the applicant to withdraw p12 p13 and ph1 second all in favor all right and with you if you do come back like i said the main thing that i'm going to want to see I'm not overly concerned about the building and the fire code, because if we give you your license and you can't make it work to their codes, you're outlawed, not us. Right. But I mean, a clear plan or location of the trash receptacles, maybe a little bit more. Detail, like an occupant load.

John, written permission plan is going to be your neighbor having the dumpster. That has to be in print. That has to be a legal document.

Yeah, we understood it would always be contingent on that anyway. I'm giving you advice on what to bring forward.

I'm not telling you to go get architectural plans at this point.

We're going to move on. Feel free to take these.

The main thing for this council is to be trash in those locations.

Does she need to use them or mock them up? Okay, thank you. Next, we have P14, request for a transfer of a victim license, Renegade Restaurant Group, LLC, doing business as Revival. So Peter Lowry, Marie Lowry, Keegan Dunson, and Stephanie Ruggiero. And hi, Stephanie. So your plan is to simply transfer the license with one less person? To us to us. Sorry. Yeah. Um, Mr. This is though. What do you want?

Fortunately, when, uh, these changes to the corporate structure take place, even though, uh, they were, you know, members now, you have to go through this route. So you need to prove it's a public hearing. You can hear from the public and then after that you can take a vote on it. But this is a fairly routine matter.

Uh, actually, we don't have to the we have to so we're going to put we're going to put the P 14. And we're going to combine a pH two. So it will be a public hearing. Is that okay? Is that proper?

Exactly.

All right. So we're going to combine those two. This is a public hearing. This is basically a transfer of ownership. Two members are leaving the corporation. Is there anyone here from the public who would like to speak on this matter? They own Revival, bottom of Miller and Water. Okay, is there a motion to close the public hearing?

Make a motion to close the public hearing. Second.

All in favor? Aye. Next, we want to take action on P14. Mr. DeSisto, the actual language is request for a transfer?

The transfer of the license would be for these two individuals. I'll make a motion we transfer the vigilant license.

To Keegan Dunson and Stephanie Ruggiero. All in favor? Aye. And next?

That does not include that child.

Yeah. Yeah. 30 years from now.

Now, Anthony, this is the same thing. This is going to be continued with the clerk to make sure everything that we have to do that. You know how we normally when we do that?

No. In this instance, no, because it's just a change of ownership.

Okay.

So that would happen in November when they come and they have to present all their things to Sandy. Okay.

I will make a motion that we approve the transfer of the Class B beverage license to Keegan Dunson and Stephanie Ruggieri. Second.

All in favor? Aye. you're all you're all set thank you so much thanks so much thank you probably see you this week next we have ordinance chapter 32 zoning section 3255 wholesale business and storage uses the first reading uh john do you want to explain what's going on here oh well i i

of the reasoning for the change, but basically what... Oh, this is what Fausto's here for.

All right. This is a... We're asking on here on behalf of Prime Properties, who is the owner and operator of the storage facility at 130 Franklin Street. Okay. Just so you understand, the ultimate objective here is to expand our facility there. And we've done market studies and a substantial expansion is needed in the town of Warren. First step is to amend your zoning ordinance so that we can obtain this. We could... have this expansion with a special use permit. Unfortunately, your ordinance right now omits self-storage, and we're asking that it be included in the ordinance. What specifically we're asking for tonight is that you refer this as you are required, as your solicitor will tell you, that you refer this to your planning board. Hopefully they can hear it on July 27th and give you a recommendation on the ordinance amendment. And then we'll be back before this council, I believe, in August. And hopefully it would for a public hearing on it.

Are there any questions? Just the travel.

Would you be willing to share those studies that you mentioned?

Well, we're going to certainly share those with the planning board. I assume they're going to be incorporated in their report. And I'm sure I have Mr. Steele from my client, I'm sure we'll be willing to give you those numbers. Okay, thank you.

My question would be more towards the solicitor. If this does get passed, we are going to need some requirements for a special use permit. As you know, if you require a special use permit and you don't list the requirements by state law, it becomes allowed by the right. So any requirements that they, you're going to need some requirements or something about it.

I think the plan is, and of course, Bianca could make it.

Yeah.

But that in connection with the planning board's review of this, that those specific and objective criteria will be incorporated in that report. And then they can also be added to the language here. There's actually two components here. You have the first one. Yeah, that's my second question. Which has the use table. Currently, just going to Mr. Anguilla's client, that self-storage on Franklin Street is a prior non-conforming use of its grandfathered inn. the expansion plans that they have are in excess of what's allowed in your zoning ordinance, which limits the expansion of non-conforming uses to no more than 25%. That's the second part of what's being asked over here. So I think what the applicant is doing is taking a belt and suspenders approach to this. That will go to the planning board also, and that will be part of their discussion as to whether or not these comply with the comprehensive.

Both components,

So this goes beyond a little bit on Franklin Street, because as you know, you can see the S's go to more than one zone on this. So there'll be a pretty wide ranging discussion, I think, at the planning board. as to whether or not it's an appropriate use, not only for the time of warrant, but also in light of your newly enacted comprehensive plan.

That's exactly right. The solicitor and I have discussed this, and let me just add, parenthetically, when you get to be our age, we always use belt and suspenders. but be that as it may, what we're trying to do here, I mean, like I said, and we're going to share this with Mr. Swarmley and everybody else, this town needs more self-storage. You're an undersupplied town right now based on our studies, and this will allow self-storage to be built in the appropriate areas.

Where is the expansion going to be? Onto the grass, the parking lot? It's mostly the parking lot, actually.

But we do have plans which would be presented to planning.

I'm just curious. I don't know how to expand you.

I know the property.

My other question is to the change in the ordinance. It still would require a special use permit to expand it, but it wouldn't be limited to 25%. That's correct. Yeah, exactly.

That's exactly right.

So is there a motion to send it to planning?

I got a question. Go right ahead, Mr. Rago.

Correct.

Correct.

So they can at least ask to do what they want.

That's correct. You allow them the opportunity.

You need to actually do two things here under the Enabling Act. The first one is refer it to the planning board. But secondly, you have to set the matter down for a public hearing. And that would be at your August meeting, assuming that Sandy can get the advertising in for your August meeting for the zoning.

So will the planning, does that give the planning board enough time to hear it and get back to us for the public hearing?

That would be at their July 29th meeting. 27th.

27th meeting.

Yeah.

So Mr. Trombley has a question. Ms. Flanagan, if you want to come down and take a seat in the front row.

It will be a quick one. Sorry. The current cap is 25%. Correct. And the problem is you guys want to expand a little bit. 36%. 36%. Okay. That was my question. Thank you.

This is Ms. Flanagan. She's on the planning board.

And I'm not going to make any comment about what we think about it. What I didn't see was a definition. uh what a specialty uh of what a uh cell storage facility is in what was proposed to me here um and obviously the other issue of what would be the standards for issues such as the permit i didn't see that all right so is that language we include in the motion that will be addressed by the planning board can create can create all of that

sure come sure sure well absolutely we'll make a recommendation but but uh that that's not the purpose as i understand the statute that was the purpose of tonight's game thank you okay i will make a motion we refer this to the planning board for their uh

July, July 27 meeting. And I would also make a motion that be set a public hearing date for the next regularly scheduled scheduled town council meeting in August.

Okay.

Advertising.

Okay. But I still got up at that time. If I wait.

Statute is three successive weeks.

No, don't wait for the planning board. Schedule it without the planning board recommendation.

And not standing if the planning board might say we don't recommend that you do this, here's why. The hearing would go forward without that.

So it would be on your August 11th meeting. All right.

So we have a motion and an agenda. A motion and a second.

Before I make a second, I just ask the solicitor, since this is 01 and 02, we would have to have two motions and two for this, or can it just be combined?

You can combine 01 and 02.

Then I'll second Mr. Hanley's motion.

All in favor? Aye. Thank you.

Thank you. Good luck. Thank you. Have a good evening. Next, we have correspondence.

Nope, we got 03.

Oh, no, 03. Missed it. 03, Chapter 12, Motor Vehicles and Traffic, Article 3, Stopping, Standing, and Parking, Section 12-66, Designated Fines, First Reading. So what we're recommending is a fine increase from $20 to $50, and that shall be imposed for the following violations of this article. Overtime parking, parking in restricted area, and double parking. Discussion. Oh, wait, I have the next page. Hold on. Parking in fire lane, parking on sidewalk, parking to obstruct the driveway, parking within 15 feet of a corner, parking with left wheels to curb, parking within eight feet of a fire hydrant, parking in excess of one foot from curb, and parking on marked crosswalk or within an intersection. So the continues, a fine of what was $20, now we're going to 75, shall be imposed for violation of a winter snow parking ban. Payment of fines set forth in A, B, and C above may be made in accordance with the provisions of section 12-64 of this article. A fee of $40 per hour shall be imposed for police detail cruiser. So what we're doing is basically changing all of the fine structure because it's been cheaper for people to break the law than it is to follow the law. Mr. Rago, question.

The actual language, isn't it? So could we add posted no party because right now you really don't have that.

When you post it, it's a restricted area. How are you going to restrict the area?

What you could do is put posted and restricted. Yeah, posted slash restricted.

Ms. Flanagan seems to have an answer or something.

I have another question. Parking with wheels to the left curb? Yes. What about Washington Street and other one-way streets where you have to park on the left-hand side of the street?

That's legal.

Okay.

In other words, on that one, it would be if they are parking on the wrong side of the street facing up. So where it's a one-way, it's legal.

I don't have any problem with this. It's just I think We should have, some of them should be more expensive. Well, let's start. Parking a foot away from the curb is not quite as dangerous as parking in a fire lane or parking in an intersection.

Well, let's start with this and see if it changes.

This is back in May. I'm putting into ordinance call that you've approved this ordinance.

Correct. And without an ordinance, the enforcement can't follow.

Right. Well, because it went through this process that we need to make changes.

So, in my understanding, was this one of the ones that we approved at our budget meeting?

Yes. Well, we approved it earlier, but it has to be ordained. So, if somebody had to receive the ticket for the $75 and was smart enough to Well, no, it's and they then they they went to court and said, show me that it's in the ordinance. It's not in the ordinance yet. So they would actually be innocent. So this is the process of the second process. We increase them once. Now we have to put them in ordinance. Is that correct? Yes.

Where it's posted or is restricted area because you post no parking is that considered restricted area?

Yeah, I think restricted is fine. But if there's some concerns and you want to put the word posted in there, you can.

Mr. Rago.

I would just say that.

Go right ahead. Make the motion.

Make a motion that we add posted no parking areas. Posted no parking. We have posted no parking.

Okay, is there a second?

So it would be number two, parking in restricted and or posted no parking area.

I'm okay with that. That's correct, yes.

Okay. Okay.

So you're seconding that?

And I am now seconding it.

All in favor? Aye. Okay. Now, is there an action on this in totality, all of it? Somebody make a motion to approve.

I'll make a motion. We approve increasing apartment fines from $20 to $50.

Second.

All in favor? Aye. And then we need you to make a motion for the $40 increase for the police detail.

We get the fine for the parking. Yes, snow ban, sorry. For not complying with park violation, the snow ban parking in the amount of $75 from 25. Second.

All in favor? Aye.

And John C. And I will make a motion that we add a fee of $40 per hour shall be imposed for police detail. Crews are required because of violation of the parking ordinance.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Okay. What about the C, payment of fines set forth?

We're not changing that.

Okay. Next, correspondence. Anybody have anything in correspondence that they would like to pull for some reason? Now's your time. If not, is there a motion to approve correspondence?

make a motion we accept and file the correspondence.

Thank you.

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Old business, discussion and action regarding State Traffic Commission approval and proposal for the installation of two crosswalks in the vicinity of Crossroad Pub and the Market Street Pub. I put this on. Mr. Rago has brought concerns and a lot of people have wanted this. The state's approved it. It's come back. that there's going to be removal of parking in those areas. I spoke via email with the owners of Market Street Pub. They're okay with it at first. They felt like losing the three spaces was an inconvenience. But then when you look at the actual site line and the fact that the danger comes from people leaving those parked cars that are right in front of their business, they seem to have softened and they told me that they have no problem with it. I'm not sure, Mr. Manager, Mr. Sullivan, did you correspond with the owners of Crossroad Pub?

Thank you.

Mr. Rago did. Okay. Let us know what they said.

They were fine. Okay. She was actually the one...

Okay. So the action now is for the council to accept the crosswalks.

And Mr. President, just to let you know, I did go to a crosswalk post and we went outside and looked at the actual location. And as Mr. Rego said, she was very happy with that.

Okay. So is there a motion to approve?

We don't need any state here, do we? Is this a state road?

What they're asking us is to accept the crosswalks. They were asking us, maybe it's just them being polite because we requested them, they approved them, then they said, are there any changes or denial? So do we have any of that? And we don't, so we want them.

Yes, from what I understood, they just wanted to make sure that the council and the two businesses were aware that if these crosswalks go in, there would be a change in the parking situation.

So this is this a do we need a language we need an action you need you don't need to take any okay, thank you next. This is a discussion action regarding adding a crosswalk at humor Avenue now unfortunately we had discussed this last year. It fell through the cracks it didn't make it to the state. And I believe the error came from the traffic commission local instead of it being sent to the state traffic commission. I've been in touch with them. We're having a meeting on July 22nd. I'm hopeful if they approve this, I'm hoping they will approve this request. It will require them to do some demolition of new construction that they've already done on the west side of Main Street. will take it up with them at the time. What I'm hoping on and what the people on Coomer who brought this forward is once again hoping for council support. So is there council support? There's a bus stop there. We did. But unfortunately, they didn't get it. So we're asking again, is there a motion to approve the request for a crosswalk at the corner of Coomer and Main?

If you made the motion.

I can make the motion. All in favor. Thank you. And we're having that meeting. Like I said, myself and the manager, DPW director, police will probably be there. Everybody will be there. It's a party. Next discussion and action regarding increased traffic and speeding on Coomer Avenue. This again has been brought by the neighborhood. They don't mind bringing it up. Is there anyone from the neighborhood here? So we have one member of the neighborhood here. So they tell me that there's been an increase in traffic. We don't disagree. We believe probably it's people that are trying to avoid the construction on Medicom as well as Main. The traffic's going into those neighborhoods. The neighborhoods aren't designed for that amount of traffic. If there's one car parked on one side of the road, It immediately blocks two-lane traffic. We don't really know what to do. Spoke with the police chief. We can put the message board there. That even impedes traffic.

We're hoping...

Throw it out there.

What's happening has become...

Well, we think it is, but it also is people in the neighborhood speed. Unfortunately, they speed. What we're going to do is set up the trap. We're going to set up the traffic control, the monitoring device, and we'll have the actual numbers. We haven't done that yet.

Is a speed bump something you would do on a small road like that temporarily?

You could, but the noise of it at the house and all, I don't know. Chief? Chief?

We did put the message board out there from June 23rd to June 29th. Okay. We had 606 vehicles to be here. The average speed was 18 miles.

So what was the highest speed?

The highest speed was between 26 and 30.

I believe it's what, 25? 25. 31 and 35. You had one vehicle.

Three vehicles.

Mr. President, may I make a... Mr. Trombley, go right ahead.

Because I've had a similar... I've heard from folks that live on Campbell's, and Campbell's kind of in the same vein. It's a cut-through. People use it to get around Main Street traffic. Would it be possible to look into or maybe direct the town manager to look into trying to acquire some of those solar-powered speed... They're not cameras, but they sort of...

Speed recognition system. They're around $3,500 a piece. We're looking into it. We're hopeful maybe Ms. Policastro will be able to get some grants. There's interesting language on where the grants are more applicable than others.

I think that would be perfect for Coomer. I think if we could get two, one for Coomer, one for Campbell, that would solve a big chunk of our kind of... Once people are aware of their speed, they do create...

I think the increased traffic is... 90 due to construction because it is a cut through but it's really if traffic's moving on main street or medical avenue it's not a it's not a quicker route it takes you longer to take that cut through and when we look it does so with it without it without the construction i don't i think that the increase in traffic will start to subside when you look at the numbers the majority of this of the speed is not that high so we understand the change of the neighborhoods but the math is showing us that

18 miles an hour is your average speed. So we'll keep an eye on it. Mr. Sullivan, you have anything you want to add?

Just, you know, education is an important thing, and I agree with Councilman Tremblay about the signs, if we could get those, especially if they're portable ones where you can move them around where you get complaints so they're not permanent. The other aspect is enforcement, and we'll ask the police department to go out there and increase enforcement, and hopefully that will get the message to the people who are cutting through in that area.

Okay, no action needed. Next, a new business three. Discussion and action regarding the addition of three 15-minute parking spaces on Railroad Avenue, specifically located immediately after the handicap parking. There are two spaces there now, and the proposed parking spaces would be available for use from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. on weekdays, 9 a.m. to 12 p.m. on Saturdays. No parking restrictions would be enforced on Sundays. We have the capability to make the sign. I'm getting constant complaints of people trying to get into the post office. There are people parked there all day. This area has always been an interesting area. I think the majority of the people there are on the bike path. I don't know what else to do, but we want to start with this. Ms. Hunt has told me that these signs can be made and put up within the week. I think we should do it. Is there a motion to approve?

I'll make a motion, then I have a comment. Go right ahead. So I suppose this is more of a question for Mary, but do we have 15-minute parking stencils that we can stripe those markers down?

Not specifically, no. But we have the capability to make the signs in-house.

I do like the signs, but not a lot of people read the signs. I know that for myself personally. And when I've I've been in that industry, I know that when you put something on the ground and people are that's where they're looking because they're trying to make their parking perfect. If we could get some stencils, some 15 minute parking stencils, have the, you know, just paint, you know, tattoo it really. I mean, I think that would would help also with with the The intent of this. We can add that.

We can look into that and it'll depend on the condition of the parking spaces, what the paint looks like, but we'll have a look. Sure. Okay. I'll second that.

All in favor. Aye. Aye.

Nice. I just want to make a comment. Go right ahead. And it's going to be on enforcement too. I mean, when I came in park today. You're correct. At city hall. There's vehicles that have been here all day.

It's an honest.

There's vehicles that have been here. Probably since eight o'clock this morning. Last week. It's three hour parking. And no overnight power.

So we're going to have the police look at this a little bit better?

We can make all the signs and do everything we want, but if we don't enforce it, we're not going to listen to it.

I understand. It all starts with an honor system. So next we have, and before discussion and action concerning Rhode Island Energy's responsibility for the cleanup efforts at the old power station on the east side of the bike path adjacent to the property at the bottom of Brown Street. What I'm hoping for the 22nd time in my life as a councilman bringing this issue to them, they own it. It's disgusting. It's disgusting. full of trash, more than you can even imagine. It's not like when we were kids. Mr. DeSisto, I think we're going to have to take him to court. And they're going to be working at the bottom of what street? The next one with a where the substation is, Norbert Street, they're going to be down there. And last year, or two years ago, I think, Mr. Sullivan, we already had that meeting two years ago in your office. I think we're going to have to sue him. Mr. DeSisto, you're up. You're at the podium.

Well, I have a suggestion. Please. What I'd like to do is get a motion from the council. To pursue the enforcement schedule that set out in section 4 dash 135 for public nuisances. I've discussed this with the building and zoning official. And what we'd like to do in the 1st instance, because. The. court schedule is much faster if we go to municipal court under section 4-136 through 142 we can get this matter in municipal court as a public nuisance because of the way that they're maintaining the property We think that that's the best way to go forward on it. And that also gives the town the opportunity to file in Superior Court afterwards if this isn't successful. But this is a lot faster. If it gets to Superior Court, as you know from other cases, it can take years. This takes weeks.

Anthony, who has the authority to declare the public nuisance in the town of Long?

Your building official. But I'd like to work with him on this so we can move it forward.

Mr. Hanley, you got a motion for me? So you want the motion to authorize the building official to, what do you want the motion to say?

Authorize the building official and the town solicitor to undertake reinforcement actions allowable under section 4-135 through 4-142.

I will make a motion that we authorize the building official and the town solicitor to take action on the board then. 410, 4-35. 135. 4-135 through 4-142. 142. Thank you.

I'm going to second that. Go right ahead. So does the word out of energy sometimes petition the council for different things?

Yes.

So we have to make that condition like we did with the telepathy.

Because they tell you that that's not what they're discussing with us that day. So then we say, okay, so let's have a meeting on this next time. And then Jacques comes back and says, oh, that person's on vacation. And then they do that enough until it doesn't happen.

And I'd say if it's a homeowner that needs a pole move or something, and we hold it up, we're penalizing the homeowner more than the homeowner.

This is a really unfortunate situation down there because the first time we brought this up, we were hoping for a cleanup and a part, actually. The Vista of the Palma River is right there. It could actually be a really neat spot if they take advantage of it. But right now, there's public dumping happening. It's just a mess. And they own it and we pay the bills and we need to have them be responsible for the property. Yes, you do. Any more discussion? All in favor? Aye. Thank you. Next, Mr. Sisto, you sat down. Discussion in action. I'm petitioning the state to begin the necessary procedures to open the watershed to the Palmer River, the Banging River, 100-acre code for shellfishing. When I was a kid, it was clean enough for us to shellfish. I actually used to go there with Mr. Coelho. I was in the room. And I still don't understand the water's cleaner. uh and why it's closed uh i'd like to get an answer i'm trying to actually wrap up things that i've been dealing with for 22 years on this council that have never uh never been heard from the state or from the energy sources i i know you want to dig into this one yeah so what i do is i you recommend that uh yeah um file a motion uh uh adopt a motion

requesting that the DEM director, Mr. Gray, Terrence Gray, undertake the procedure of the water quality testing to open up these areas for shellfishing because they're all part of the same watershed.

I mean, this is a huge economic development. It must be paved in there now. The call is that it's still working to go in there in the wintertime. And for us. I mean, it's clean.

I'll make a motion that we ask the state DEM.

Yeah, RIDEM.

RIDEM to crack the shell and see what needs to be done for the water testing and possibly get those areas open for shell fishing.

Absolutely.

Is there a second?

Second.

Discussion? All in favor? Aye. All right. So next we have discussion and action on the town council support for fundraising campaign, park improvements and a well at Burris Hill Park. I was speaking with the planner. I originally wanted to just do a fundraiser for a well, try to get that going, get that grass nice and green. And she asked that we include a campaign for park improvements because there are DEM grants that are available Just as you heard earlier from Mr. Oliveira, the fundraising efforts at Winswap Farm have brought us the Christmas tree lights, brought us $1,500 to the food pantry. So we're hoping to have a concert in the fall and also start with a fundraising campaign and get a well down there. Are there any questions? That's what we wanted to do.

Yes.

There you go.

Second.

All in favor.

I say we name it the Louis Regal well and get him to pay for it. Yeah. Good deep pockets.

Or the Derek Trombley well and throw him down it.

If you have the money, we can do it. Discussion and action regarding housing developments in the town of Warren who must perform a SUI usage impact study at their own expense. So it's been brought to my attention, and Mr. Hanley, I'm sure you know this, that these are conditions that the planning board or zoning board would apply. I want to make this mandatory by ordinance.

We have no way of knowing what are these going to be impact these studies. Generally, if they have a proposal in front of the planning board, and you need to know. Generally required, they have to provide it.

So your ordinance and it's section 15 dash 31.1 a. Uh, has the term when it comes to these, uh, studies. And, you know, engineering studies, which would include, uh. Yeah, it's not me and it says deemed necessary by the board. So, I think what the proposal is here is to change team necessary to shall.

Yeah, but suppose they're not deemed necessary. They still got to give us the report.

I'm just saying that this is the proposal. This is what you would need to do. Currently, the planning board can say, look, we need to see this. And then what happens is, by the way, there's a whole procedure for that. The applicant has to put money in an account. And then when the engineer takes a look at it, Money is drawn from that account. Sometimes we've had no problems with applicants. Sometimes we do. But by and large, it's work. The proposal that you have here is that it's going to go from the planning board deciding what needs to be done to everybody has to do it. That's the proposal.

See, I got a problem with that. You just said everybody. I'm sorry.

I had in there developments larger than 50 units. That's fine.

If you want to put it in, just say older units, then it goes.

You may still need it. It depends on the small road. You're adding 48 units. Does the road have the sewer capacity to handle 48 units? I would much rather... Now, maybe it's state law that gives the planning board the authority to require these.

I just want to make sure they do it. I don't want a developer to have a board in the future who may not require it. Because right now it says may.

I get two things. I'm more concerned about the connection fee. Is this part of the connection fee?

No. This is just to make sure that our sewer system can handle the additional impact.

The problem I got is we're casting a huge net. Suppose you get somebody that comes in and they've got like a small three-lot subdivision on a major sewer line. You're going to make them pay. No, that's okay. No, not according to, you know. I said under $50,000. Over a fifth. I think it's better discretionary to maybe beef up the language that says they have to pay for it. Because the planning boards, they're the ones that see the plans. They're the only ones that are going to know whether they need this impact study or not to make the determination. Not everybody is going to need to provide one. Not everybody needs to provide a traffic plan. So I think it's discretionary at the board because they're the experts in this and they should know what they need and what they don't need. I don't think we should make people pay for things that we don't need them to pay for. But how do we know our capacity? The planning board is the one that says, hey, you're doing this and we have questions about the sewer. Give us a sewer impact. What if they don't want it? Then they don't get approved. Then their application gets denied. But it's not mandatory. If the planning board asks for something and they fail to provide it, they're well within their rights to deny the application. I'm saying, what if the planning board doesn't require it? Because probably the only reason they're going to do that is because they don't need it. Mr. Rager.

I think you have good intentions. However, like John said, I remember years ago when they developed Bank of Newport, they did the traffic stuff. And it was a short-term time afterwards. Neil Swift came in front of us. And they may have been to a traffic study.

I'm not asking about traffic studies.

That's not my point. My point is, if it's for a petition.

Our sewer treatment facility is getting taxed heavily.

Oh, absolutely.

Okay. We have potentially three major developments that are coming into town. You look at an addition of maybe 3,000 units.

So for each of those, they probably...

It's a no-brainer. Those three big developments are going to have to provide a sewer.

So why wouldn't we want to say in the ordinance that you have to?

Because I don't want to be caught off with just three developments when there's a lot of other things going on in the town where you're going to catch the little guy with this big net because you're worried about these big guys. If they don't provide them what they need, they get denied, correct? Correct. If the planning board has a reasonable request and asks for a sewage impact study, and a big development like the one's coming in says, no, we're not going to do it, isn't that 150% grounds for denial?

You can deny, yes.

But what if you have a board that is pro-development, doesn't even ask for it?

Then you've got to start appointing better members to the planning board.

But then it's too late.

Joe, is there kind of like, could we kind of compromise with, like, Anything over 100 units?

Sure. I just want to make sure.

Let me make a suggestion. Why don't you have it so that myself, Ms. Policastro, Mr. Cabral, speak with the sewer department as to what they think an appropriate cutoff would be and we can come back to you.

That's great. Make a motion. Do we need to continue? Do we need to continue it? No.

No action. Great. Next, town manager discussion and action regarding a request from Rocchio Corporation for approval to utilize town property at 15 Main Street as a temporary lay down area to facilitate the Barrington Bridge Scour Remediation Project starting September 1st, 26 for a fee of $2,500 a month. Anything you want to add to that?

Just that Mr. Moore is here from Tokyo.

I want to come over and... Let us know what you want to do.

Hi, sir. Hi. Steve Moore with John Rocker Corporation. Yeah, so we're going to state contract, do a contract on the Barrington Bridge for a scour repair project. Most of the work is underneath the bridge in the water. One thing that we're doing from the top is we've got to pump concrete down below the water. So we need to wash those concrete trucks out, need minimal storage. So we're looking for that property, which is currently being used by Etna Bridge, to lease that from you. Okay. When I spoke to Mr. Sullivan, we spoke about $1,500 a month rent. Yeah, I upped it. That's what Aetna Bridge is paying also. I upped it to $2,500. Yeah, $2,500 is going to be high. I'd like you to reconsider that. Where are you going to go? That's a 67% increase over which charge.

Where are you going to go for the project? I'm going to have to rent something else. Okay. All right. Thank you. Anybody else want to discuss this?

Yeah. I mean, so we were charging Aetna $1,500.

We have no use of our own property with them there.

Yes, we charge them $1,500, which is very low.

So we were charging them $1,500.

It has been a while since we've gone up on that price. Would you be comfortable with $2,000?

My research fair market value would be anywhere between $1,200 and $1,800 a month. Okay, would you be comfortable with $1,800? I'd like to get $1,700 within the budget.

How long are you looking for?

Six months. So six months with two terms to extend for a six-month period. So this is a little bit of a strange contract. We've got a real strange window with DEM on this. Right now, the in-water work window is October 15th to January 30th of this winter. And next year, the jobs will be complete by the end of next January. We're trying to open that up, and DEM's kind of on board. We're working on it. If we open it up, we're hoping to be out of there by this coming January rather than the fall of January.

The location is good to you because of the bridge right there, right?

The location's good.

And you're going to go what, to the house across the river?

We're going to have to figure something out because we don't have $2,500 for our budget. Joe, they already bid and we're awarded the bid. We bid with expectations of what fair market value would be for, you know, areas I think you're...

I'm going to make a motion that we authorize the manager to sign an agreement for the amount of $1,800 a month. Okay, good.

Before you do that... When we did the lease with that bridge, we acknowledged the fact that there was a loss of money on that site. You were aware of that. Okay, well, there is. That's the first thing. So depending on the outcome of the case, the town needs to escape for us. We can't say if it is or not, but I do think the disclosure needs to be made at the bridge when it held the sign anyway with that. I strongly recommend that we will walk. I don't think we have a choice.

It has to be put in the account. I don't think we have a choice. It has to be put in. Absolutely. Is there a timeline on that?

No, I don't have something for it. So we don't get it.

I mean, we're good. We're solid with that.

All right. Well, evidently, my colleagues think 1,800 is better than 25. I don't think you have anywhere else to go.

Your colleagues think 1,800 is better than zero.

I still think you have nowhere to go. Multi-million dollar job. You're just taking advantage of us. Any other discussion?

So we need to amend the motion to include the acknowledgement of the pending lawsuits.

Correct depending on the case. How would we believe that it's responsible? You're going to see that. I'll make them obviously. All right.

I'll redo the motion. I'll make a motion. We authorized the town manager to sign the contract at 1800 dollars a month. noting that the town is involved in a lawsuit, and depending on the lawsuit, we may need to pull out of the contract. Does that sound correct, Anthony?

That's correct, and what I'll do is furnish the language that we got, same as Edna, on that. And that'll be the agreement that will be signed by another town. Okay.

Second motion. Second. All in favor. Aye. Thank you. Thank you. Next, we have a discussion and action and authorization for the town council president to sign an on-call agreement for engineering services with Woodward and Curran and the town of Warren regarding the supervisory control and data acquisition, the SCADA system for fiscal year 26 and 27. Good evening.

Mr. President and members of the Council, this is the yearly contract that the town enters into for Woodward and Curran to give engineering advice for the wastewater treatment plant, also for the SCADA system, which is the computer-operated system for troubleshooting. Is that what that is? Skater. Mr. Hart from Woodard & Karn.

Anything you'd like to add? Let us know what's going on.

No, just as Mr. Sullivan said, it's a data system, computerized system to essentially control and read data from the towns.

And it's currently what we're utilizing. Absolutely.

Any questions? Yeah, this is discussing of the contract and not actual work. Is the town getting built for your time here tonight? No.

Okay.

I'll make a motion. We approve the town council president to sign the on-call agreement for engineering services to Woodwood and Curran.

Second all in favor. Okay, thank you next we have discussion in action regarding the allocation of unexpended sewer funds from fiscal year 26. This is for era pump repair a pump at the wood street from station and to repair a blower motor at the aeration tank.

So, thank you, Mr. President and members of the council. If you remember back in February, we discussed, we briefly discussed that we had an issue with one of the blower motors down at the treatment plant. I'm sorry.

Is that at Patterson Ave?

No, this is at the facility itself. Okay. There was an oil leak in the motor and that was during one of the snowstorms that we had, wasn't discovered until after the motor had seized, or they got a notice saying that there was an issue with the motor, went in and discovered that the motor was seized. So they've been operating with... There are three blower motors down there.

And jump in if I'm wrong.

There are three blower motors there. Operating with two right now. But for efficient operations, we should have three blower motors down there.

All right. So we have the funds for this?

So what I would like to do is there's In the current budget that we have, there's $17,000 remaining in the operation contract line. I would like to use that money. H2O, as part of their contract, they set aside $50,000 for doing minor repairs at the facility. This year, we have $13,000 left in that. They will give us that money back. We'll use that. So that's $30,000. And then we would have to use $24,000. Actually, it would be $29,000, close to $30,000 from the unbudgeted revenue that we took in for the sewer or the wastewater treatment when we increased sewer fees last year.

So that's coming from that. And is that a specific account, Mr. Marshall?

Sewer fund, it's its own fund.

So that's where it's coming from. So it's like a general fund at the sewer treatment.

Yeah.

For the sewer treatment. Okay. So the money's been found.

All the money is coming from sewer-related budget items to pay for sewer-related repair. Correct. Okay.