Ports and Harbor Commission - Regular Meeting

WE HAVE HIT 630, AND SO WE'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND CALL THIS MEETING FOR THE PORTS AND HARBORS COMMISSION TO ORDER. AND FOR A ROLL CALL, ALL COMMISSIONERS ARE PRESENT AND ACCOUNTED FOR. NEXT ON THE AGENDA IS PUBLIC BUSINESS FROM THE FLOOR. PUBLIC BUSINESS FROM THE FLOOR IS ON A NON-AGENDED ITEM. If there is any comments on an agenda item, we have to wait until that agenda item. And the item just to review on our agenda right now is discussion, naming of rates for facilities in the Valdez Harbor. So if you have an issue that's not relative to that agenda item, you're welcome to come to the microphone now. But if you're here for making a comment on that agenda item, we'll wait until we get to address it at that point in time. So, Catherine, something on non-agenda? Well, I don't think so.

You can tell me.

If it's relative to a rate, then it's on the agenda item.

I'm Katherine Walters. Just in the background, I've

And I'll just preface. Everyone has five minutes. And so if I raise my hand, it's not that I'm being rude. It's that your five minutes has come.

No, thank you. I'm Catherine Walters. A background, I've lived on a boat for 38 years, 30 of those years in the Valdez Harbor. Ended up seeing a lot of changes of leadership over the years, from 84 on until now. and helped start years ago the Valdez Harbor User Association, which we don't have anymore, which was really great for helping facilitate changes and stuff, which would be great to have something like that again. But anyway, my main issue today, there's several. Oh, I should mention too, while we lived in the harbor, you know, we shoveled a lot of other people's boats. We tied boats up. We tried to help as part of the community. And one thing I feel like that is lacking lately is and maybe because I don't live down there anymore, is that there's a sense of community I don't feel like we used to have where it was helping each other out a little bit more. So it would be nice to get back to that where we didn't feel like we were always battling to keep our rights or not pay this fee or that fee. But my issue that I want to bring up is not so much a fee, but the nine-month upland storage time. I know I'm not sure of the logic of the nine months. I'm guessing it comes from maybe someplace in Washington or California where the weather and the seasons are not the same. But it is very, very difficult. to have a boat be nine months. If every nine months you have to put your boat in the water and bring it back out, eventually it cycles around. So you're taking your boat in and out of the water in January on the lift, which is totally doesn't make sense. It's not logical to have to do that. If it could go to an annual time when if you take your boat out in July. It's a year-round thing so that it isn't offsetting at different months throughout the year. I know the harbor doesn't want to put a boat in the water in January. I know I don't want to have to put our boat. It doesn't make any sense. There's ice in the harbor. So if we could change the time frame of that upland storage. Fees is another issue. I won't talk about the fees right now. But mostly it's the time frame. of having your boat go that, because I know it's for derelict boats. Our boat is definitely not a derelict boat. People in the staff and the community know it's not. We're actively trying to sell it if anybody wants a boat. Nice 46-foot sailboat. It's for sale, and we're trying very hard to sell it. It's just got to be the right person, and they haven't shown up yet. So with that in mind, yes, I can see where you don't want a bunch of derelict boats up there, and I get the reasoning behind that, but the nine months is just a little bit unreasonable for us here in Valdez. So with that, thank you for listening, and I'll let you carry on. Thanks.

I believe that's in the policies document, so that'll have to be something that's addressed when we review that. So I see Sarah nodding her head that she's taken a note to be able to put that forward, but that's in a policy document. Thank you. Anyone else for public business on the floor?

All right.

I turned myself off, which you might all want to have happen eventually through the meeting. WE ARE NOW MOVING TO NEW BUSINESS, WHICH IS DISCUSSION OF THE UPLANDS AND NAMING OF RATES AND FEES FOR THE USE AND FACILITIES OF THE VALDEZ HARBOR AND REPEALING RESOLUTION NUMBER 2692 NAMING SUCH RATES AND FEES. JUST SORT OF BACKGROUND ON PROCESS, WE AS A COMMISSION HAD A COUPLE WORK SESSIONS ON THIS, LOOKING AT RATES AND DISCUSSING. IT THEN CAME TO US FOR A VOTE AND THEN IT WENT TO COUNCIL. WE ARE ALWAYS HAPPY TO HAVE PUBLIC INPUT, SO WE'RE HAPPY TO SEE THE ROOM FULL. AND WHAT COUNCIL HAS ASKED US TO DO, AND NATE, CORRECT ME IF I GO ASTRAY ON ANY OF THESE COMMENTS. It's come back to us, so there is a chance for comment, which is what tonight is. The commission will then have some chance for discussion and giving direction to staff on any revisions we see. Then those revisions will come back to us for consideration and a vote, and then it will be taken to council. So there's two more steps in our process headed forward. Is that fair to say? And so we are here to listen to your feedback. We will absorb it, make discussions, and DISCUSS THINGS WITH STAFF AND THEN WE'LL HAVE AN ADDITIONAL MEETING IN JULY AT OUR JULY MEETING TO make a final decision on what to forward to council on rates, and then they will have the chance to vote on those and approve those. So that's the process going forward. Tonight we're here to hear comments and concerns from all of you. Each person does have five minutes, and probably the best thing to do would be start in the front row and kind of snake on through the group and just see if there's anyone along the way that wants to step up and make comments. When you do, we need you to identify yourself and your name to the microphone. The red light on the mic means it's on. If it's a white light, the mic is not on. So go ahead and turn it on with hitting that little red button. And I'm going to look at Tanisha and staff to see if I've forgotten anything. Is there anyone that would like to tell us something? In a five-minute window. Anyone to be first up?

There you go.

Front row first. We'll work it that way.

So I've got to touch a button. It's all right.

As long as it's red, you're on.

It's red. Okay. My name is Jim Gifford. I'm a longtime Harbor user. Most recently, the last 13 years, I've been buying annual passes for the boat ramp. And I understand there's a new fee for parking. I've never had to pay for parking there. My typical arrangement is I put the boat in in the morning, do my fishing, come back in the evening, and pull it out. I stopped at the harbor office. They explained what the process was. I guess it's totally new. that they would check the parking lot at least once a day. And if you were parked there, you would be charged the rate, so the daily rate, which, of course, I wonder why we started this. I guess it's to make sure people don't park there long term. And so two things. It seems like there should be maybe 48 hours free. And then if the whole idea is not to have people park there for multiple days, then charge them after some time. period because otherwise my my annual pass is costuming me a whole bunch more and the bottom line I have to figure out well is it worth doing this anymore and I think that's what a lot of users will be doing our competition is is you know Seward, Homer, all those areas. And it'd be interesting to see if our usage is going up or down or stagnant or what it is. Anyways, and if we're going to have charges, if I'm going to get charged, then I think somebody that parks their car in the lot, they should have to pay after 48 hours or whatever it is. Why do they get a free pass? And again, if we're trying to free up parking spots there, Today, there's three large boats on stands taking up four parking spots. And, you know, those boats should be gone already. So, anyways, so that's, you know, if we're going to do something, everybody's got to pay the same rate. The guys that have the nets out on the blacktop at the new harbor, are they paying? Maybe they are. I don't know. But if we're going to do it to one group, we're going to do it to everybody. But I'd prefer not to see it. I'd like to see the new ramps go in at the new harbor that were planned for so long. You know, we have... I've heard a lot of cussing of people who are using our old ramps down there, and it really needs attention. So that's my two cents. Thank you.

Thanks, Jim. Sorry, I'm resetting things here. I'm going to jump the order, actually, because I've got to leave soon. Okay. Sounds good. Sorry, thanks.

And I actually have about eight minutes. Is that going to be okay?

I think five is our, we're limiting five, so I'll raise my hand.

I'll be coming back and speaking to council then when it's at the next stage. My name is Kyle Klausa. I've been a year-round liveaboard tenant of the Valdez Harbor for four years. I manage the Valdez Harbor, I manage the Valdez Ferry Terminal and operate the Valdez Yacht Club. I wish I didn't have to remind the representatives here that the U.S. is in a period of unusually high inflation since 2020. Furthermore, the fact that costs are rising universally is a terrible excuse to justify raising the rate of a public service that has historically been sustainably budgeted. When I first started living here in Valdez, living aboard in 2021, the liveaboard fee was $75 a year. It is now $900 a year. That is an increase of over 1,200% made in one year. The liveaboard portion now accounts for nearly 25% of my annual harbor bill, supposedly to bring the Valdez harbor rates in line with other comparable harbors throughout AK. Allow me to posit a quarry that might help to highlight the relevant fallacy here. Say the Baylor came into council next year and said, well, in Glen Allen and in Fairbanks, they charge over 1,000% of what we charge. Should the residents of Valdez then expect 1,000% increase of their trash bill the next year? The points I'm trying to make here are increasing the price of a public service by over 1,000% in a year during a period of economic hardship is just really poor public policy. And then the second piece is that the city's price their public services based on the circumstances that are specific to each community's culture, geography, logistical limitations and needs. Consider the reason that all of the harbor, Consider the reason why all of our rates have historically been low and cheaper than other places. It's probably the same reason that other public services in the city of Valdez have been cheap. And it's because all of our services are subsidized by the Alyeska pipeline and the taxes that we get from the property taxes. I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT THE LIVEABOARD RATE INCREASE WAS ADVOCATED AS A MEANS TO ASSESS A PROPERTY TAX ON THIS GROUP THAT WOULD HAVE PERCEIVABLY OTHERWISE NOT BEEN PAYING IT. IF THIS IS ABOUT FAIR TAXATION, I DO HAVE TWO POINTS ON THAT MATTER. WHY ARE LIVEABOARDS WHO DO RENT OR OWN RESIDENTS IN VALDEZ CHARGED THE LIVEABOARD FEE AS WELL BECAUSE THEY'RE PAYING THE TAXES? AND THEN THE SECOND ONE IS The boat that I own and live on is presently valued at about $20,000. A liveaboard fee of $900 has me paying a tax rate of over double the rest of the community in proportion to value, so it's not really fair. All summer long, I get to compete for access to parking places and showers and restroom stalls with every other Tom, Dick, and Harry that's in the harbor front. None of them are paying any sort of taxes to Valdez. This situation kind of has me feeling like I'm paying to subsidize the various harbor services FOR THE SUMMERTIME CROWDS BENEFIT, LOCAL LIVING, LOCAL YEAR ROUND LIVEABOARDS HAVE, WE HAVE PRIDE IN OUR HARBOR AND IN OUR COMMUNITY. AND WE'RE MORE LIKELY TO UNDERTAKE IT UPON OURSELVES OR TO REPORT AND RESOLVE ISSUES WITHIN DAMAGED INFRASTRUCTURE AT THE HARBOR WHEN WE DON'T FEEL LIKE WE'RE BEING NICKLED AND DIMED FOR REVENUE FROM A, WHEN WE'RE BEING NICKLED AND DIMED, LET'S JUST PUT IT THAT WAY. OUR PRESENCE BRINGS EYES, THAT'S MORE SECURITY. to the harbor. It brings more hands on deck when someone needs a quick hand, help docking if you need extra snow shoveling. Liveaboards are an asset to the entire harbor community. Living aboard isn't glamorous. It takes a special kind of crazy to live aboard in the most northern ice free port in the United States. The restroom that's closest to my slip is closed throughout the winter, meaning that I get to walk a quarter mile to go to the restroom from October to May. Living aboard, the liveaboard lifestyle, it's a commitment. And it's honestly one of the last few remaining modestly affordable housing options in Valdez. Most people choose to live aboard because affordable housing simply isn't available. Characterizing liveaboards as freeloading or not pulling our own weight is very disingenuous. LIVERBOARDS ASIDE, I THINK IT'S SAFE TO SAY THAT NO ONE HERE WANTS TO PAY HIGHER RATES FOR THE VARIOUS SERVICES THAT THE HARBOR OFFERS, ESPECIALLY IN THE PRESENT ECONOMIC CONDITIONS. THE FACT THAT THIS REPRICING POLICY WAS APPROVED AND WE'RE HERE NOW READDRESSING THIS ISSUE DUE TO THE PUBLIC BACKLASH KIND OF SPEAKS THAT THE IMPLEMENTATION OR THE POLICY, THE WAYS THAT WE HAVE OF IMPLEMENTING PUBLIC OPINION AND ASSESSING PUBLIC OPINION IS WANTING. DEPARTMENT DIRECTORS HAVE De facto, incredible power.

Kyle, I'm going to have to interrupt you.

One minute?

No. You didn't give me a minute. I did not give you a minute. We are there. Cool.

Thank you. I guess I'll see you guys when it's counseling.

My name is Thayne Miller. I own the fishing vessel Kingfisher. I own a Sainskiff. I volunteer with the Valdez Fisheries Development Council, as does Colleen and other members. I know everybody in this room, except for the gentleman on the end. This new policy... charging saying skiffs mortgage $23 per day or as I did a $700 for mortgage for slip that I notified the harbor I was coming into and was going to need on Saturday was not vacated until afternoon today by somebody else so I paid $700 mortgage for a slip that essentially I couldn't use my skiff is tied behind my boat where it has always been. My skiff tied behind my boat does not occupy any time or space in the staff of the harbor's day. My skiff tied behind my boat does not have a dock I can step onto. My skiff at the dock does not have use or access to electricity unless it comes off of a plug in the back of my boat. So the Sainskiff parked behind my boat does not incur any extra effort for the city staff to manage. It does not cost the city anything. It does not interfere with other vessels' ability to maneuver. It does not occupy any other vessel's space. It is tied behind my boat, as it has always been in the entire length of my career. Today, I could not use my slip that I paid $700 with to comply with these new regulations. Also, I'd like to point out on page seven, is it page seven or page eight, where it says Sainskips are exempt from transient mortgage. Page eight, right on the top. Now, I'm being whiny about having to pay additional funds to keep my boat in the harbor. I'm a commercial fisherman. I volunteer actively in the community. In fact, tomorrow I'll be volunteering myself, my staff, and my boat for the hatchery. The commercial fleet brings in over $600,000 a year in fish taxes. COMMERCIAL FLEET WITH THEIR CREWS COMING INTO THE HARBOR, SPEND TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS EVERY YEAR INTO BUSINESSES IN THIS TOWN. WE ARE A HUGE REVENUE RESOURCE FOR THIS TOWN, AND I APOLOGIZE, I DID NOT READ THE COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS PREPARED BY the hatchery to give you the actual numbers, but they're there. Colleen's read them. Other people have read them. So this, to me, is a money grab. The hatchery, excuse me, the harbor needs funding. We all know that, but it is a public service. But this fund, our fee for the science gifts is unreasonable. I am able to put my skiff on deck. I launched my skiff in the water today so I could mend my net. That would be a $23 a day infraction if I hadn't paid annual mortgage for it. My skiff weighs 9,000 pounds. It's one of the heaviest skiffs in the harbor probably. Most vessels cannot safely put their skiffs on deck. It's just not possible to do. Some boats on a float can, some cannot. I said are practical. I'm sorry? I said are practical. I'll save my mouth when I feel like it. Thank you. Anyhow, so asking fishing vessel owners who have traditionally or habitually never loaded their skiffs to load their skiffs is unreasonable and a dangerous assumption. If people are forced to do that or people willing to choose to do that as opposed to pay the mortgage, there are potential injuries or damage can be caused. So while I am in favor of generating revenue for the harbor, it is a public service. We do produce vast amounts of money for the city and the city business owners, prospectors, the restaurants, the RV parks, all of these companies generate large amounts of revenue from not only the fishing vessels in the harbor, but the other harbor users. So it is not some sort of freebie like we'd like to assume.

Now, I have to stop you, Thayne. Okay. Thank you.

I can talk all day if you don't mind.

I have a really fun job.

Thank you.

All right. My name is Ethan Sandlin. I'm a commercial fishing vessel captain at the Pacific Crest. And I second what Thane said. And I just want to make a suggestion, I suppose. The totem, when it burned down, left a hole in Valdez. And I think it's a great opportunity to put something up on that hill. Another crown jewel for Valdez. fancy restaurant or something, because people would love to spend money there.

Thank you.

Good evening. I'm Bernie Culbertson. I was on the commission for 10 years myself and chair for about a year also. We went through the same scenario at least twice while I was on the board. And I get it. You need money. You need to do things. And the same thing we came up with through those years I was on it is the safety is what it really came down to. There's other ways to raise money. I'm not really concerned about this. Raising fees, I understand. When I was on, it was at least a million plus every time we put a dock in out there or did any kind of maintenance. And coming up with a million dollars per dock just to do maintenance on it is real money. My guess is by now it's close to two million with inflation. So anyway, I just want to say we came up with all these same scenarios that people are talking about now. And safety was what we came up with, really. the thing that killed it every time it came up. So there it is. Good luck.

Well, I know you guys want me to state my name, but I'm a very firm believer in my constitutional rights, and that would break my Fourth Amendment. So, most of you know me anyway, so I'm going to go anonymous. Some of these guys have been touching the facts. Great. I mean, I just moved here, but I have been... In this town for 30 years, there's a big reason it made me move here. I'm not much of a public speaker, so pardon me, sorry. Some of the facts that I want to touch on, all the kind of things from the basics of this is a state, this is a state-run facility. You have the staff that's mostly related, at least a couple of them related by marriage, stuff like that. Conflict of interest stuff. Also, the This is, this is. Because when you ask the staff and... like I've asked. I've done a lot of open records requests. People know me from video requests I'm doing just because I have a camera makes it to where I'm rude. I've got a camera on me right now and you guys aren't rude for it. Back on track. Valdez Harbor holds two business sites. I don't know if many people hold that. One is a state entity and one is a private LLC. Big projects they like to use the state for grants and federal, and then they like to stab at us for the private LLCs and that. As to the live board fee, I love the fact that they touched that and about the property taxes. On one of my private meetings with Nathan Duvall, the city manager, as a business standpoint, he would do $1,500 day one of a signed agreement if he could. So that's the kind of standpoint. the kind of person that's not only me moving down here, my father's moving down here with me, live aboard, my son's moving down here, live aboard, my mother's moving down here, gonna be a live aboard, my uncle's moving down here, so we're adding to the staff. I mean, the places down here. One of the big things I wanted to talk about is like the vessels, thing to charge us what's on the side of our vessel in a slip that we pay for. I'm not trying to stab at business owners or this and that. You have a lot of people don't know you have a kayak company that has five bays with five kayaks in each bay. That should be charged, five kayaks, each bay, that should be charged 25 kayaks in the slip. Because if I had two boats in one slip, I'm charged for two boats. I don't see why they can't build something like the guides do on shore and stock that six or seven or eight on one to be compliant. The apartment building, you know, vessels have to be in and out by motor. You know, that thing, I have staff members talking to me about how it was disassembled to be underneath the things. Well, to be out of the harbor three times, they have to disassemble that thing three times. I mean, just because they say something and they don't follow through with it, I think that's favoritism towards staff. The parking fee is a really good thing. This wasn't on my vehicle, but it was on the floor next to him. These are being handed out on vehicles right now. It states, we appreciate your use of the facilities. Please be advised that parking fees now apply to all vehicles attached to trailers. Now apply. WHEN I CALL STAFF AND I TALK ABOUT THIS, THEY SAY, OH, WE'RE JUST INFORMING THEM. AND THEN IT'S JUST SO VAGUE THAT THEY, WE'RE NOT CHARGING THEM, BUT YET THEN I HAVE STAFF MEMBERS TELLING ME, WE GIVE THEM INVOICE. INVOICE IS THE DEFINITION OF A CHARGE. YOU KNOW, AS A LIVERBOARD AND AS THE GENTLEMEN SAID, WE HELP EACH so that, you know, people from North Pole who don't even live here, they see them struggling, help out. If I see the saners that just professional coming in, I still, hey, you need a hand, anything else. But to do this to where... I want to store my machines. I'll put my four-wheelers in your parking lot. I'll put my snow machines on your thing instead of store it nicely in one trailer. I'll scatter them on the parking lot because it doesn't say I can't have my ATVs. So we're trying to do things accordingly and be honest. But when the harbor staff isn't honest with you, it's kind of hard to be honest back. So there was other stuff for... The annual... Oh, this cleaner thing. How to stand on private property like your daughter or your grandchild standing on the side of a street with a lemonade stand with her own jug of juice, her own supplies, standing there, moving her body freely. Imagine being charged for that. Ideally, that's what you're charging these fish cleaners. I've worked as a deckhand on some of these halibut boats. You know, they keep your deckhand so busy, he doesn't have time to get off and go do the fishing. So he's got to go clean the boat, get ready for fishing, 4 a.m. the next morning to get on a boat.

So I'm going to go ahead and stop you there. That's number five. Thank you. We have someone else in the group that would like to. What's that?

Hello. Mike Bowden. So my question is more towards commercial fishing. And Thayne brought up a good point on page 8. It does say commercial seine skiffs are exempt. Was the rationale behind wanting to put them on the decks because of interfering with navigational ways between the docks? Was that the reason why this was asked to be done? And if so, why don't we allow them to park their skiffs on the other side of Enfloat between the shore and the dock if we're concerned about them being in navigational ways? Don't charge them. It says they're exempt. Give them a place to put their skiffs. I started out commercial fishing in Valdez 36 years ago, so it's a little bit in my heart. We did it for many years before I got out of it. So just an idea, an option. Give them that space. Let them put their skiffs over there if it's because they're making it narrow, and move on.

Thanks, Mike. We will take your suggestion. Thank you all. I'm looking towards the back of the room. You guys all, anyone want to step up to the mic?

I'd like to say something, if you can hear me up remote.

We'll get you in just one second there. We've got someone up to the mic right now. I'll go to you next.

Hi, my name is Dustin Klein. I'm a commercial fisherman here. I've been running a boat out of Valdez here since 2011. I want to talk about the proposed SCIF fee. We've already absorbed significant increases with our commercial fleet, and we understand that costs go up. We're accepting the higher annual mortgage, the higher lift fees, the additional trailer parking. I'm not here to argue those fees at all. It's just that a SCIF is an essential part of our operation, just as a contractor's truck or tools are. We need those, and I feel like charging us $23 a day for additional is adding fees. It just becomes an excessive charge for us. My boat is small enough I can't lift it on the back of my deck. I'm just fine, like I said, paying the mortgage fees. I understand the lift fees. That's all part of what you guys provide. What I'm asking is that... we come to an agreement or we can work together not to charge us that fee. You include it in our annual mortgage like it is. I can put my skiff so the tail isn't hanging out an extra 16 feet. I park it on the side of my boat. That's it.

Thank you. We're going to go to those that are participating remotely. And Nikki, I'll get to you second. So I'm not sure who spoke up there. It was Paul Smith. So Paul, if you want to go ahead, I'll start the clock for your five minutes.

Yes, thank you. My name's Paul Smith. I live in North Pole, but moving down to Valdez, I bought a boat down there that I'll be living on year round. I have a few things I'd like to talk about. The mooring fees, that is one thing that you're raising mooring fees for the same slips that we've been in. Again, this is a slip that it does not, require any additional space that I'm in to go up in a price for something that we've been paying for is a little bit excessive. By saying that you're going up every year, but yet you're not including any additional services for that fee that you're going up on. I can see if you were going to say, well, you could put a box on the deck between your boats if both Parties that share that deck agreed to have a secure box or something. But you're not, you're not providing any additional services. The second thing I'd like to talk about is the fact of tailoring. That now you want to, it seems like you're wanting to charge for us to have a trailer. And like the gentleman said before, I have my stuff, which is a side-by-side, a four-wheeler, and they're street legal, registered, and I can park them in a parking spot. I can put them on the sidewalk, whatever. But if I chose to have a trailer down there to secure my stuff and leave better, neater, cleaner stuff for the rest of the people in Valdez to have more parking spots close to the ramps by not having them scattered inside my trailer, that's like a garage. Now, you say that it's like a, it seems like you're trying to say it's equivalent to a tax on property tax. Well, our boats are small. We are paying a yearly fee. We pay a liveaboard fee. Now you want to charge us to have a trailer that is there for us to store our equipment in because light boat living is an extremely small space that you have to have clothing, pots, pans, everyday living things. And by turning around and doing a charge on a trailer, now it's just taking more and more harder for people people that want to be a community in the community and part of the community, it's making it so hard. I'm 67 years old. I'm retired. I live on a fixed income. And every time you raise a dollar, it takes more of my living expenses. And Valdez is already very expensive because it's a tourist town. You make your money off the tourists. It should not be coming off the people that live there because, yeah, we have our mooring fee, our living board fee. They Property owners have property tax fees, and we all shop, have to live, everything else. But again, I say it's a bad idea to charge more for a trailer. And then last thing is the fishing people that they're providing a service for the people that come and fish, and it allows them to do it. And because they're on solid ground, they're not on the docks, and you want to make them pay a fee, a yearly fee to a business license is not good enough? Are you charging like Fat Mermaid, the potato, are you charging them a yearly fee to have a business there to charge? Again, I think the state that has, or the city that has over $100 million in a fund is nickel and diamond, the people of, Valdez, and it needs to be looked at when you spend money, like instead of buying 1,500 half-ton vehicles, why are you spending an extra $1,000 for these vehicles that do not do anything in town except drive around in snow and that to get a three-quarter ton or one ton? Spending is getting ridiculous for the city. We're not like a mayor that makes, you know, $200,000 a year to be a mayor. So I ask y'all to reconsider these three things that I brought to attention. And remember, we're trying to be members of the community also. And we want to live there and in peace and harmony with everybody else and be good neighbors with everybody. So please consider these things that I've said. And I thank you for your time.

Thank you, Paul. Staying online, Nikki, would you like to say anything? All right, Nikki, I'll try one more time. All right, I'll come back to you in a little bit, Nikki, to see if you're there. Hope, would you like to say anything?

Hello.

I hope. And just so you know, I know you just joined. We're doing five minutes, so I'll let you know when that runs down.

Okay, thank you. Yeah, I was on and got kicked off. Now I'm back on. OK, my name is Hope Finley. I am a commercial fishing vessel owner operator based in Valdez. I've lived there for about 13 years. I consider Valdez my home. I'm also a volunteer at BFDA, as Thayne mentioned as well. I just wanted to chime in and comment that I think that charging skiff moorage is the wrong choice for the City of Valdez. I think As commercial fishermen, we have a pretty tight budget in times of uncertainty, which can sometimes be our entire life. And I think you're going to promote avoidance from the harbor overall. I think that a lot of fishermen will avoid the harbor. which will then avoid the local businesses as a few others have mentioned. I've already heard it through a few other comments here in the fleet as I'm out in the grounds currently. This happened in Homer, I believe, and a lot of Homer vessels chose Valdez because Valdez has historically been the favored port because of its services and its affordability. Now, as I think Kyle had mentioned previously, It seems as though Valdez might be competing with other ports in the state, and I just don't believe that we have to. That's pretty much all I have to say. I just think that, yeah, it's also, as Thane and Red have mentioned, it's very dangerous. For some of these boats to load the skiff, I certainly cannot load my skiff on the back deck of my boat. And my skiff does not impede on anyone else's space. I am right next to another saner, Dustin, who also has a skiff, and on the other side is usually another boat with another skiff, and we figure it out. I'm not taking power for my skiff, as Thayne had mentioned as well. I just don't see how this makes any sense whatsoever. That's basically all I have to say, and thank you for your time.

Thank you, Hope. Nikki, before I go back to the room, I'll circle back to you one more time.

Oh, yes. Thank you very much. I have trouble unmuting myself, but I just appreciate you asking and getting the word out to people to attend this meeting. And I am just attending as a concerned harbor user of 43 years. Thank you. Bye.

All right, coming back to the room, is there anyone else that would like to add any? Oops, I turned myself off. Have any comments that they'd like to add from the room? Joe, go ahead. Sorry, or Larry. Larry and then Joe.

I'd like to thank everyone that came out to support this, because I like to see this change. My name is Larry Colon. I'm a 46-year resident of Valdez. I wrote this so I don't go too far. I fish and launch my boat on an average of two to three times a week, a minimum, starting in April and ending in October or November. I purchased an annual pass for about the last 20 years. I find it ludicrous to say that I need to now purchase an additional parking pass each day and each launch. After the season, I can't even find a parking spot, and I'm even required to park on the street in the for the added pass going to guarantee me a parking spot? During the Silver Salmon Derby, is it going to guarantee me a parking spot? I pay local taxes. So my question is, is the city trying to make more money off the locals or even the fishermen who already use the local restaurants, purchase local fuel and services? I am now going to request my fishing friends to purchase a parking spot while we clean our fish. I understand that we are different from other cities and harbors. That's why we live here. I thought Valdez spends money to attract tourists and fishermen, not to scare them away with added costs. Thank you very much for your understanding and my frustration.

GOOD EVENING. JOE PROX, A LOCAL RESIDENT AND BUSINESS PERSON. I THINK SEVERAL, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT SEVERAL THINGS WITH THE PARKING FEES AND THE LAUNCH PASSES IN PARTICULAR. VALDIES WORKS VERY HARD to get visitors down here. The fish derby, we spend lots of money. That's the whole point of the derby is getting people down here to fish. My business wouldn't be here without the people who come down and fish. And as hard as we work to get them here, I hate to put fees on that really aren't connected to an expense. There's not a great expense to have that lunch. as opposed to the rest of the harbor. Most of those people, if you, and me included, I launch my boat there. If you had a little patch in Old Town or something, we could use that too. They launch all over the place. They don't need the services. The services are nice, but not essential. The parking, I'm worried when the derby comes around that... what's that going to be like on the women's derby when people are running to the street or something for where it's free, and how are we going to enforce that well? That's really tough to enforce these things and not create a black eye. I was educated a little bit, oddly, took a while, but that the harbor is an enterprise fund, and you've got to make ends meet. So I think maybe that needs to be looked at. I don't know the costs of running the harbor. It seems to be great services, and it runs very smoothly, and all of that. But also, this is Valdez. It is kind of Never Never Land. And I think that this might be something I think it's a poor way to raise money. I think you could get some real negative effects out of this. I know it's done in other places, but again, I don't think we have to do it. I don't think the costs are connected to these folks. And again, we spend probably tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands to get cruise ships here. If I had to take Anyway, Joe Sixpack, who comes down from Fairbanks with their family and fish and buys food and buys fuel and buys pixies and all of that stuff, that is the highest value visitor we have, bar none. And I don't care what visitors we have. Love them all. Come here, however you are. Spend whatever you can, but those are the folks that come multiple times a year. They come year after year. They come generation after generation. We're getting that more from the Valley. We're getting it from Anchorage. I think that's something to really build on, and it concerns me to have these fees come up and just be a possible negative. And also, I can't imagine Harbor staff's excited about this. I don't think you go to work down there to be the meter maid. So I would really urge you to look at the possible negatives of these fees if you can. Thank you.

Thank you, Joe. Before we turn to some open discussions amongst commission members and to work on giving staff direction, do we have anyone else that wants to step up to the microphone? Yes, okay.

My name is Edward Mattson. I've been in Valdez for about 11 years now. And when I seen this email come out, it kind of hit me that I feel like the people that are mostly affected, I own a saner and so do my brothers. And it seems as though the people that are going to be greatly affected by this are going to be locals because we spend the most amount of time here, the most time with our skiffs in the water and working on our stuff here. And, you know, it's... A lot of us don't have the luxury, as previous people have stated, to load our skiffs, especially the smaller homegrown operations here. Prices of fish have gone up in the last year, but we've just come out of, you know, multiple years that we were struggling to survive. And so we just started to get a breath of fresh air, and it's felt like that has been just taken advantage of all of a sudden. I just ask that maybe we have a discussion on the skiffs primarily because that is a huge jumping cost for us. And I accept the fact that, you know, fees on lifts and so on they, you know, they've gone up and I'm okay with that. We can work with that. But it's like the skiff, that's a, that's a huge jump because if I have the skiff in the water for, you know, 60 days or 70 days in a season, that is a huge jump in my operational costs. And the email was like slated to give you guys a heads up so that you guys can plan accordingly. But then it was effective immediately. And like, you know, we start planning our costs for the next year. And so it's like, That, you know, that's not a heads up. That's just, you know, your cost gone up 30% overnight. And anybody that's living costs that goes up 30%, that's quite a substantial amount. So I'm just asking that maybe, you know, like on my boat, I pay for a bigger slip already to fit my skip in behind the boat. So it takes no extra room up. And I, so I feel like now I'm, that's pointless. And a lot of my friends have mentioned they want to go to other places now because, you know, it's harder to get parts here, harder to work on our stuff. But the The privilege of having lower costs for just being here and being able to take our time and work on our stuff outweighed being closer to parts. But now they're going to go somewhere else. But we live here. We're the locals. We're trapped. And so we can't go somewhere else. But we're still going to have to pay these fees. And so it just feels kind of like we're going to take the brunt of this as a local. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else in the group? Going once, going twice? All right. Yes. Yes, please.

I APPRECIATE A LOT OF THE COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE, AND I GUESS I WANT TO, AS YOU GUYS BEGIN YOUR DISCUSSION, I WANT TO PREFACE A LITTLE OF THIS AND PROBABLY BRING SOME CONTEXT FOR THE ROOM AS WELL. THERE WAS A REFERENCE TO THE CITY CODE, AND I'LL JUST READ A PORTION OF IT, IT SAYS, TO MAKE REASONABLE CHARGES FOR THE CERTAIN USE OF FACILITIES TO ENABLE CITY IN SO FAR AS POSSIBLE TO PAY FOR THE COST OF MAINTENANCE, OPERATION, SUPERVISION OF THE VALLEY SMALL BOAT HARBOR FACILITIES FROM THE REVENUE DERIVED THEREFROM. And all the provisions of this chapter shall be liberally construed for the accomplishment of the purposes of promoting the general welfare and for operating upon a nonprofit basis as a public utility consisting of public boards and appurtenances. So that's the guiding principle for the harbor. And as we built the budget last year, the financial picture was very different from what it is today. And so in light of that, in an effort to make expenses and revenues match, the rates were established as they were at the beginning of the year. Again, the financial picture has changed. It's a little bit more rosy. I think the city council has a little bit more of an appetite, perhaps for some subsidy, if you will. And so I think as you consider some of these comments that have been made and opportunities that avail yourselves, there may be some different opportunities that are available to you today that weren't necessarily available in January.

Any questions for Nate on those comments before we start discussing?

Can I ask one other question?

Ideally, if you have a question, go ahead. If it's a statement.

It's kind of a statement and a question. Here, I'm a disabled veteran. And I know like here I pay, I have tax deductions that I don't have to pay because I'm a disabled veteran and a senior. Does Valdez do any of this for their property? And if so, why is not the harbor doing the same for liveaboard people that are disabled veterans and seniors for tax purposes?

We'll take that comment in when it comes. For tax purposes, there are some things, to my knowledge, but we'll take that in as we have discussions. And is it a question?

On that as well. Well, a direct comment on that as well. I hear what he said.

You need to be to the microphone or not a comment?

Absolutely, yes. So again, somebody who's been doing open records requests and having personal conversations with him, the whole staff says that. We charge, we upgrade, we do this to give you this. Have anybody looked at the harbors lately? Has anybody seen the logs that come in, the lack of maintenance? Go in the launch, the boat launch. I can't even launch a jet boat in this town. So what he says is just words got to be words at some point. They're not doing what they say they're charging us for.

Thank you. OK, discussion at the group. I think there are three places that, if I'm correct, that we are looking based on comments, but also based on what has been put forward to us in the agenda. And maybe we can look at each of those, make some comments, and give staff feedback. And then we will know where to go into the future. So the first one listed on the agenda is parking fees. So that's section two, subsection H. Is there any comments from the commission that we can give to staff for direction? Commissioner Steve, you look like you're reaching for the mic.

Well, I was against the parking fees when we talked about it in our work session, so I think that we could turn it into... Slip fees, or just instead of paying a bunch of different fees for parking and slips and whatever else, just roll everything into the launch fee or the slip fee.

Vince or Jamie, any questions?

Yeah, that might be a lot easier than, like somebody said, having somebody enforce it every day, go out, taking time. Might be an easier route.

Vince?

Yeah, I would agree with Alan. THAT'S PROBABLY SOMETHING WE CAN LOSE.

I THINK THERE'S PROBABLY CONSENSUS FROM THE GROUP TO LOOK AT THE PARKING FEE REMOVAL. MOVE IT. NEXT UP IS MORTGAGE CHARGES APPLICABLE TO SAINTS GIFTS. SO THAT'S SECTION 1, SUBSECTION A, PARAGRAPH 2, AND SECTION B, SUBSECTION C, PARAGRAPH 7. AND I WILL GO DOWN THE ROAD AGAIN. MR. SEED.

Yeah, I think safety is an issue there. And as long as those vessels aren't impeding the navigation of other vessels, the only place I can think of, I don't use the harbor much past the tour dock or A and B floats. But if you're on the A float on the odd side, on the west side, odd side, and your seine skiff is not perpendicular to your transom, that can cause a problem for some of the boats getting out of the tour dock. But if they're tied perpendicular, then that usually doesn't have an issue. So as long as they're tied properly, and if you're paying for a slip, THIS ALSO INCLUDES, I THINK, LIKE, KAYAKS AND WHATNOT. IF YOU'RE PAYING FOR THE SLIP, AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT IMPEDING ANOTHER VESSEL, YOU'RE PAYING FOR THAT SLIP.

COMMISSIONER KELLY? IS THAT STILL? YOU'RE ON STILL. SORRY, NOW YOUR RED'S ON. THERE YOU GO.

YEAH, I'VE KIND OF BEEN THROUGH THE SAME THING WITH BOATS OF MY OWN IN YEARS PAST. I have a tendency to want to look at equity or any boat that's associated with your main boat, whether it's a fishing sand skiff or a kayak or whatever. But the economic tie between the sand skiff and the sand boat is extremely obvious. So I have a strong tendency to want to say,

And it is an essential thing that they do need. And like we said, they can't just put it back on their boat. And they're still prepping for the next season. So if that just comes up, that's another added expense that they're going to have to budget for. I agree.

Did you have something else? I just wanted to hammer on the safety issue of it.

And I have a clarifying point. That section does not just count for Sains Gifts. That's for any vessel alongside a boat, not just Sains Gifts in particular, correct?

Yes. OK.

So again, general consensus is to come back with that removed. OK. And that would take care of the third topic as well, correct, if that goes away?

Yes and no. Because there's still some questions and concerns asking why. I forgot to turn my mic on. I apologize.

I'll clarify. The third topic that was put in front of us to look at is the management of our commercial kayak operators and how their slips are charged for differently than vessels. And there's not a clarification for a commercial operator of kayak operations in the code right now versus recreation and having a kayak alongside your personal boat. So there's not a delineation right now. as to how that is charged.

Well, if they're renting the slip and they're putting five kayaks in it or seven kayaks in it or one kayak in it, they're still renting that space. So they shouldn't be charged for each particular vessel. It should just be the space. Which is what is happening right now.

hang on hang on this is commission right now it's commission discussion and then we can we can open it back up but right now we kind of have to follow meeting protocol and that's my my really fun job to enforce so do either of you have comments on so I think probably to staff would be to come back with wording that clarifies commercial use and those slip spaces in the two locations that they are and then we can debate and see that and make any modifications if need be.

I mean, ultimately, even with the other line item for the auxiliary vessels tied alongside or behind, you're just paying essentially for, yes, you're paying for the slip, but you're paying for one specific vote. So if we wanted to switch our mortgage rates and go to square footage, then, which we would rather not do, but I'm just saying that would be one way to clean it up because you are paying for that whole space and you can put in there whatever you want so long as it doesn't repeat on your neighbor or navigable channels.

I GUESS MAYBE ALTERNATIVE WORDING AND THEN WE COULD ACTUALLY MAKE A MODIFICATION TO SAID WORDING ONCE WE SEE IT? YES. OKAY. AND THEN THE OTHER THING THAT WAS NOT NECESSARILY SPELLED OUT IN THE SUMMARY STATEMENT BUT IS BROUGHT TO US TONIGHT IS LITTLE BOARDS AND WE HAVE WORKED WITH Nikki, thank you for being on the line and spending lots of time working with us with liveaboard groups as we have modified those fees. And I'll look to commission on any desires to either open those conversations again with the liveaboards and have another working group, but we've kind of Just, you know, all of those, the liveaboard fees that are there were developed with the working group in concert with the commission. And that was probably two years ago. I participated in that. So I know that's what was done. And we had two commissioners on that group. And so I'll just look for you guys for comments right now.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE LIVABORTS WERE, THEY DID NOT HAVE A RAISE IN THEIR FEE FOR SOMETHING LIKE 20 YEARS OR 20-PLUS YEARS, AND SO THAT'S WHY IT WENT UP SO DRASTICALLY AT ONE TIME. AND IT IS IN LIEU OF PROPERTY TAX IN SOME MANNER BECAUSE YOU'RE ALREADY STILL USING FACILITIES IN THE CITY, AND THAT'S HOW WE'RE ADDRESSING IT, I SUPPOSE. I THOUGHT THIS WAS PUT TO BED A WHILE AGO. SO IF WE NEED TO HAVE ANOTHER COMMITTEE OR WORKING COMMITTEE OR WORKING GROUP TO ADDRESS IT AGAIN, WE CERTAINLY CAN, ESPECIALLY IF WE START GETTING A LOT MORE LIVER BOARDS. AT THE TIME THAT WE DID THIS, I THINK WE HAD FOUR LIVER BOARDS. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE QUITE A FEW MORE NOW OR MORE COMING. SO IF WE NEED TO HAVE ANOTHER WORKING COMMITTEE, I'M HAPPY TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD. BUT I THOUGHT THIS WAS PUT TO BED A WHILE AGO.

Yeah, I was aware that there was an issue presently. I was not on the commission when that process worked through, but I'd welcome if there's an interest for us to revisit it.

Yeah, I was not on the commission at that time either, so if we want to revisit it, I'm all for it.

Yeah, so I think We can focus on that, and that's how we'll move that forward into the future, is to maybe have an annual liveaboard meeting. All right. What else are we going to say, Nate?

I was just going to say on the topic of liveaboards, housing is a council priority, and they're on the precipice of some major changes as it relates to the primary home exemption. And so in context of that, systemic change may be worth looking at.

The conversation together.

The conversation, marking that up again.

Yes. I would just like to clarify one of the comments that Kyle Klaus made. He was saying that even if you had property and were paying property taxes, you were still getting charged a liveaboard fee, which is incorrect. The Walters can attest to that. When they were living aboard the boat here, they also had property, so they were not charged the liveaboard fee.

Are there other topics that we need to cover as far as rates go?

Those are the main ones I've seen come up this evening. No other main ones on rates. There was more just a little bit of extra cleanup, if you saw the little strikethroughs. One of them was a duplicate under the storage. And that will come back to us as we look at the next version. So that it doesn't contradict the parking.

But we'll see. Nate, just in process, are we covered where we need to be? Sorry.

I think if Jeremy and Sarah have enough to make a draft, you'll get a red line and we'll talk about it again.

Anything else you want to remove while we're here? Any other discussions to be put forward in the rights to be looked at? SO I WOULD THANK EVERYONE WHO CAME OUT TONIGHT. WE NORMALLY LOOK AT AN EMPTY ROOM, SO WE ACTUALLY DO ENJOY SEEING FACES. ALL OF OUR MEETINGS AND ALL OF OUR AGENDAS ARE POSTED ON THE CITY WEBSITE, SO PLEASE CONTINUE TO FOLLOW THOSE. WE ARE NORMAL JANUARY, I MEAN JANUARY. I'M NOW MOVED US FORWARD SEVEN MONTHS. OUR NORMAL JULY MEETING IS WHERE THIS WILL COME BACK TO US TO CONSIDER AND MOVE FORWARD WITH THE CHANGES WE'VE SUGGESTED TOWARDS COUNCIL. So if anyone wants to attend either of those, are you looking at me with a funny face on the July meeting?

Well, that's what I believe. We can turn it around, but I was going to ask all of you if you were going to be able to make the first meeting in July, which would be next Monday. I don't know if we'd have a quorum or not.

Or we have a special meeting.

I'll be here.

Yep, I'm here. As long as work doesn't get annoying.

We'll still shoot out an email just to get formal verification, but if that's the case, then I just want to.

Make sure I have this quick turnaround. And we'll just, anyway, track, we're looking for the turnaround, and we'll need to plot and make sure we have a quorum to be able to meet and hold next Monday. If not, there'll be a special meeting that will also be posted that you can follow and know about.

Anyway, thank you all.

And I think our comment periods are done, and we are going to lead to commission business. Are there? The comments were open. And we have everyone's comments, sir. And we're now going to move on to the report. Please wait.

My only job is to hold the meeting thing. And then you said wait on your comments. And then I waited. And now you're finished. And now we're not even commenting. You're not allowing a comment.

There's not double comments. We're now moving on to the next agenda item, which is reports. Are there any reports?

You made new topics. And now you're not letting us comment on the topics.

Is there any commission business from the board?

Are you used to not having people in the room and you do this? Really, ma'am?