Parks and Recreation Commission - Regular Meeting

BUT THERE'S A MULTITUDE OF LIFE HAPPENING IN THERE. AND WE FEEL THAT OUR COMMISSION FEELS THAT PARKS AND REC IS THE BEST PARTNERSHIP FOR US TO START, BUT NOT ENDING THERE. THIS PROJECT REALLY SHOULD INCLUDE A LOT OF SHAREHOLDERS THAT SHOULD HAVE SKIN IN THE GAME, BOTH WITH PLANNING, FUNDING, let's face it. But all of those things are what we need to start looking at going forward as we start building an actual concept. I think Potter's Marsh is a great example of a successful project, just like on a much bigger scale. It's interesting to note that it's owned by Department of Fish and Game and maintained. But surrounding it, and you guys are certainly aware of the Great Land Trust. I remember it in the news a few years ago when they were really pushing to get that property around the boardwalk owned and put into public trust kind of land and conservation. I'm not sure they're even finished with that, to be frank. But that property was owned by another telecom company. ANYWAY, THEY'VE HAD TO PURCHASE IT, AND SO THEY HAVE THIS MASSIVE, WONDERFUL REFUGE. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO WORRY SO MUCH ABOUT THAT WITH THIS KIND OF PROJECT AND THIS AREA, BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY GONE THROUGH, OH, AND I MEANT TO LOOK THIS UP AT LEAST, BUT WE HAVE, I THINK IT WAS WHEN DAVE DINGLE WAS THE CITY MANAGER, WE HAVE A COASTAL MANAGEMENT PLAN THAT ADDRESSES THIS WHOLE AREA. and beyond. But I'm not sure where that is. And I should have looked it up before I came. It's been in the back of my mind. But going forward, that's the kind of stuff we're going to have to find out about is beyond where we want to put it and the scope of the project. At any rate, any other commissioners have anything to add? So we're here to talk to you guys about our love of this idea and if you'd be interested in working on it with us.

I mean, I grew up in Anchorage, and I remember going on those little boardwalks and seeing all the birds as kids, and it was just like the coolest thing in the world, and it brings a lot of tourism as well out there. And we would see people just, it was always busy, you know, growing up, but that was also like the 90s, not to age me, but so it's all, and even continuously when I lived in kind of one of those things that was always like, oh, you got to go do this boardwalk. I mean, I think it's a great idea. And I think it'll take the pressure off of people parking on the side of the road and having traffic hazards right there. So people can just go and park somewhere and then walk the boardwalk type of area.

I'm generally curious. I think I've got a lot more questions at this point, just being unfamiliar with the conversation, where it's been. I know this has been kicked around for a while. I first heard Jeremy Talbot mention this probably five plus years ago when he got here, and I didn't realize that Stan was trying to run with this years ago, too. Yeah, my mind jumped to Potter's Marsh as being an obvious comparison, but... Yeah, on a real broad way, this kind of brings up other questions about waterfront in this area. You know, I'll point fingers at the Sea Otter RV Park. I think a lease just got renewed out there for Wilson Brothers. But, like, what's the long-term plan with that? I mean, that seems like the prime piece of property. And I just question, like, we're talking about waterfront and visitors and viewing things like that. You know, you see where I'm going with that question, just kind of like, what are other assets and what are other options? And then I don't know anything about permitting and construction in wetlands, but I work with those agencies enough to, there's a process there, as everybody realizes. I don't know how smooth and how quick that would go. Some of that just kind of depends on workload and administrations and ideas. And maybe it's no big deal. Maybe that's the next step. Um, and then, uh, you know, again, this kind of question of other assets, um, you know, I'm thinking about the trail out to Shupe Bay, for example, or not Shupe, the Gold Creek Trail. Um, you know, that's also got some marshy kind of wetlands on it too. I haven't really been impressed with some of the trail construction out there. I've tried to interface with that group and just ask some questions. I haven't really quite gotten answers. But yeah, if you're talking about boardwalks and muddy areas and getting people out to see things, maybe you kind of steer money towards something we already have. It's not duck flats, but I think there's a need there, and I think it would serve a niche. Anyway, I'll probably have some more thoughts, but I'm going to quit talking for the time being.

And I have a question on that right there, where I feel like a lot of people, when they drive in the duck flats, they're going to see it. So I feel like a lot of people don't go to Shupe because they don't know it's there. A lot of tourism, cruise ships and stuff, they don't go to Shupe because they don't know it's there, really, unless they look at the map. But when you drive into Valdez, if you see a boardwalk, it's like driving by Potter's Marsh, if you see something, you're like, oh, let's stop. Let's check this out. Obviously, some of the questions I have is the winter weather, how is that going to affect the boarding, you know, the the posts that are keeping the boards up, the different tides. Because we get some pretty good tides over in that area. And so, which I think Potters and Lawrence is a great area because they have, I mean, I think that Girdwood area gets a 35-foot tide pool area. So those are just my only two things. But I feel like people are going to see when they come into town, especially if it's something new, and they're like, oh, pull over, let's go check this out, this is new, and I feel like it'll kind of bring in a whole new tourism spot before they get to town. Or cruise ships as well. Yeah, because they're walking distance.

Yes, so they'll have access to this easier than chute.

Yeah. I think the accessibility is incomparable. And I think Gold Beach Trail is probably one of the,

worst places to put a trail for that length of i agree as far as like the slides that happen i advocate we abandon that and your resources other places i mean that's where i'm at on that trail it's just that's washed washed off the mountainside what are we doing with our limited time and human power it is nice to go just to that first beach and that's you know and that's another discussion but um Yeah, we haven't had a functional trail to shoot, quote-unquote, for years. I'm trying to, in my own brain, rebrand that as Gold Creek Trail, which is still very tough to get out to.

It is, yeah. Yeah, when people come in. So I obviously work at one of the places where a lot of cruise ship people come into, and they bring in the map, and they want to know, well, where can we go? Where can we go see the ocean? Where can we go and get some good? They want to see the bears. Mm-hmm. And there's so many bears, especially in the springtime, that are along that duck flight area. If we can just be like those first couple cruise ships that come in before the bears go north and be like, oh yeah, wander out here. Even if they don't see any bears, it's still something that promotes that trail and just that area. I think it's pretty cool. And you get to see a lot of duck wildlife. And so when you brought this and I started reading on it, I was like, oh, that's exciting. I don't know. I'm kind of excited about it. The logistics of it, I want to know more of, obviously. But I think it's kind of something cool that even people that, so there's that trail system that runs behind the hospital, and that will make even more areas for people to walk, even locally, back in there.

Can I?

Go ahead, Sarah.

I'm just waving my hand. Oh, and Jessica has a question, too. So let me read Jessica's question, or let's see. Sorry, Jessica. Jessica asked, is the purpose more for the community or the cruise ship tourist? And if I might reply, I would imagine knowing the folks on beautification, this is for everybody. This is to promote education within the community. Yes, it would be a nice tourist attraction, but I don't think that that's the main focus. But I'll let Kathy speak to that. Was this community, visitor, both? Mostly community.

Obviously, visitors will appreciate it. But for our purposes, it's for the enhancement of our kids, our adults, our access to an area that is really pretty hard to get to. You don't go tromping out. And you shouldn't go tromping out into the wetlands. But there's a lot going on, and I think, yeah, it's mostly for our town. But everything we do for our town becomes a benefit to people that come here.

My only – I think it's a great idea like everybody else. Like I always – let's put more stuff out there and make the town better. I was interested in do you guys already have a proposed – map and idea. When I looked at the map that was in the packet, it just showed what was city land and what was DOT. I know it's already been mentioned about right-of-ways and DOT and working with the state, which is kind of, is a little bit more difficult than working just city agency to city agency. It occurred to me, and I don't know how difficult it would be because there's kind of a hill in the I thought, how cool would it be if we could connect Dock Point to Crooked Creek? It seems like that's mostly city land. I don't know, and I'm not sure if that's even what we want to talk about today, but I thought that would be a cool way to promote trails also. Just throwing that out there.

I think that the sky's the limit. It depends so much on The scope depends on what we can do best within any constraints that we might face. And that is going to take some outside expertise, obviously. So I'm not getting wedded to any one idea, but I do like the idea of having access all the way down. That would be fantastic. Because the fish spawning area, we definitely want to have it extend to that. We want to include that in whatever we do. And we talked a little bit before we started the meeting about people crossing the highway. I've always thought, oh, no, we have to have everything on one side so nobody's going across that highway. But nobody else here thinks that's a hindrance, so OK. And that does open that up quite a bit, because we already have a trail on the other side of the road. making it accessible from both sides, utilizing maybe what we already have in addition to new areas that go out into the wetlands. Yeah, I think that's a great idea.

I was just going to say that if we do connect it here, though, we will still have to involve the state on this corner.

Definitely. I think the state will have to be part of this all the way. And hopefully, I mean, we probably won't be asking them for money because that's going to be a waste of time. But for everything else.

Gotcha. I guess my next question then for coming from Parks and Rec, what do you need from us in terms of this project? What are you looking for? to get out of this work session? Like, what do you need from us? And then kind of what are next steps that we can help you with?

And that's on my list too. I guess if we could get to a point where... First of all, we thought Parks and Rec is the likely partner for us. And we need to work with the department in any kind of project. It just is more efficient funding. Not that we want to steal from your budget, but it's going together with a solid plan to the city and then looking for other funding outside of once you get a project going. There is a grant that I'm interested in looking into that's called the Our Town Grant. and it's a national endowment for the arts. It hasn't been cut. It's still in existence. And it's not just for art projects, but it can be, but it's also for things that are community development, things that enhance your community, that are for education. It would fit the criteria for that grant really well. And there's money there, up to $100,000, I think is the max we could get. which is not, you know, not nothing, but it would only be a small slice. And if we can find other funding sources as we get a project together, next steps being, you know, formalizing the process. And I'm not sure, you know, this is a big chunk to bite off. I guess, you know, having some way of gaining some kind of funding for preliminary planning. And there are people that do that in our town that could help us with this. So I would just throw that into the group mental pool, how and who and when and everything.

We would do that. I was going to say, and a couple of the questions that have come up come up, get to kind of the other portion of this, which is I kind of want to just give like a high level overview of the things that are going to get, the things that we're going to run into if we pursue this project as we pursue this project. And I've been doing a fair amount of digging, but I found that the handout that everyone has in front of them, I found it's very simplified, very overly simplified. But the bullet point list on page two, I thought it was a great publication as far as how straightforward it was. But the bullet point list on page two was a really good kind of straightforward, here are the high level steps. So, you know, what Chair Nielsen's referred to here is, you know, who are the partners? What is the working group? Who are the champions of this project? So I think this commission thought of this commission and these two commissions together, you know, augmenting the idea of the project and being able to champion it. What other groups would... want to be pulled into this, what other stakeholders or supporting agencies could be pulled in. Identifying objectives, so that kind of speaks to, you know, what's the goal of this? That kind of speaks to what Commissioner Tran was saying, right? So who is this for? What's the goal of it? Is it primarily educational? What aesthetic components are included in it? Inventory of wetland area and adjacent lands. Kathy kind of already started on that with the map here. So who owns what land? What's the state of that land? What's next to that land? Then designing the BoardWalker trail. Sarah kind of touched on that. So where does the trail go? And then we get into the fun part, which is permitting. This is Tidelands. So this is an Army Corps of Engineers permit. It would be a 404 permit unless there is a national or regional permit that That we could fall under so there's a couple national permits out there One is for recreation, but it doesn't apply to tidal wetlands it only applies to non tidal wetlands and then there's one that's for linear transportation and could potentially apply to this because it does apply to tidal wetlands but Nate City Manager Deval has a contact there so we're going to reach out to them and see if any of the national or regional permits could work for this or if we would have to go through the 404 permit process for it which Isn't fun, but isn't. It's not. It's somewhere in between on what Jeremy was saying, right? It's not 10 years of someone's life, but it's not really easy. If there is a national or regional permit in place that we could use, then it's more in the really easy category. If there's not, it's more in the one to two years of someone's life. category. So, and then constructing, raising money. So Kathy kind of spoke to that. You know, how is this funded? Is this funded through just the city CIP program, through the capital improvement program? Is this funded with grant money? What are the funding mechanisms? If it is funded within the city's project structure, you know, that list is reviewed every year by city council. YOU GUYS ARE ALL, YOUR COMMISSIONS ARE ADVISORY GROUPS TO THE CITY COUNCIL, SO IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR COMMISSIONS TO SAY WE WOULD LIKE YOU TO CONSIDER THIS PROJECT WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE CAPITAL PROJECTS YOU'RE MOVING FORWARD. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY WILL, BUT THAT'S YOUR ROLE. THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT. constructing the trailer boardwalk that would be something that would probably be a project managed through capital facilities since it is mostly city land and parks and rec it would probably be something fairly similar to what this group saw with Mills Hill in New York Lagoon Park Maybe a little easier than that because, well, because, I mean, but there are groups out there, right? So, like, Fayetteville is a good example of involving the Great Land Trust. And is it, like, what's the trade-off, right? So if I'm channeling my inner Nate Duvall. I'm channeling my inner Nate Duvall. He was like, I don't need to be there tonight, right? I'll just pretend to be him. So, I mean, he would say, you know, if you pay for it yourself, It's easier. But then, of course, you have to pay for it yourself. And you have to convince four people up here that it's worth paying for yourself. Is the juice worth the squeeze? That's so neat. So then you get into the actual construction. And then you get into the signage and interpretive materials, which I think Everyone in this group is going to have a lot of thoughts and ideas and cool things about this. I know I'm biased, but the sea walk in Juneau is an example I always think of. And one thing I love about that walk by the whale statue is the design of it. All the metal poles have cutouts of the different marine plants on them with their Tlingit names.

I've never been to Juneau, so that's amazing.

Yeah, so it's a cool project. I mean, but then the cruise ship companies sue you for using funds. Anyway, so, but then, and then maintenance is that last portion. So those are, you know, obviously this is super oversimplified, but this is kind of the step-by-step, what would you be looking at?

I wasn't very involved with the new hardware construction, for example, but this is kind of a chicken-egg thing. I mean, here's these bullets suggested, but to some degree, you're going to have to design, figure it out, to know what you're funding, to even permit, and it's kind of what happens first. So yeah, if I'm understanding this right, it seems like the general consensus has started at the corner of the Forest Service building and built from there, as opposed to, say, starting from Dock Point.

We connect it to Dock Point and make a really huge walking loop and then utilize the parking lot at Dock Point, the side of the harbor. Then this forest cabin, we have parking. We don't have to waste money on parking. We just can put all the money in the boardwalk. And then we have a huge walking loop that we create behind the senior center. coming to the forest cabin, going through the boardwalk, Dock Point, New Harbor, and you can even go to Kelsey Dock or to the Mills Hill Trail. I mean, this is a huge walking adventure, which we don't have here.

I imagine we could connect it with things that are already there. I mean, paths that are already there. Everything is possible. It is possible, but it is a good idea to look at the bigger area. Yeah. We do have good parking over by the gazebo, too, which is very accessible, but on the other side of the road.

I feel like it's better to cross the highway there than directly on a curve, though. I agree. Right bus curve does.

It freaks me out.

Senior Center, actually by Janice's house, where they're staging for that road, I don't know who owns that land. area, too, where you go, you know, behind the senior center to the state, I don't know, that's a place you could start as well.

For some people, that would be too far.

That's also city land.

It's also city land, yeah.

That's a choice.

So you can have state brothers to start it, too. If it's covering that much area. Because that's a nice trail, you know, the walk right there, behind there.

So it's general commercial and the ownership isn't listed. I'm guessing it's city. I haven't looked yet. But it doesn't have a property ID number. So I'm guessing there's something weird going on with platting there with that parcel. So, yeah. I got you. So we'll find out who owns that parcel too. Here's the area. The salmon turnaround's here.

So the weak spots... would be from Dock Point to the other side of the land, the other side of the animal shelter. That's not, there's not really a proper way to walk through there, even roughly.

Yeah, there's a hill there.

No, there's a, like, before you enter the trail, there's a flat spot parking lot and You could connect there. You could connect.

It's not all of the other area. This whole other area already has a walking path on the other side and is not untraversable. You can walk along the highway here. Not that you'd want to, but it's not

Are you trying to find a path that's not on the bike path? Because the bike path follows the duck flats, right? Right.

No, just the fact that if we wanted to connect all of this area, what's already there that we could utilize and what would have to be built? And then where would the actual boardwalk go that would be you know, a good nature walk.

I think we need drones. We need drones to fly. The city has many drones. They should fly the drones and we should get the movies.

Some of the thoughts I had about partnerships, though, going further down the road, or as soon as we can hook more people in, are the city schools, the college, the museum. Fish and wildlife, somehow, we need to get fish and game, fish and wildlife, some kind of representation so that there are voices that should be heard. But the biggest piece is going to be getting the public involved. The trick being, we want to have something solid to present. Otherwise, it's going to be like this, only times 100, everybody having different ideas. So having kind of a directed plan, but getting a lot of public input and buy-in so that it's a big thing. If the city spends any money on it, and if they do, probably be a lot of money. We want our town to really support it. So we have to go through that painful process of presenting a new idea, having people grumble, and why are we doing this instead of that? And then finally come to, wow, this is such a great idea. But it's a great process. It has to be done.

Approximately 3 quarters of a mile if you start drawing a straight line between the board service building and existing dock point trail.

Really?

Just 3 quarters of a mile?

Yeah.

There's some curve to it and a viewing tower. Let's go for it. I really like this idea.

I'm sorry. It's over 3 quarters. It's over that, but.

WITHIN A MILE?

WITHIN A MILE.

I MEAN, WE COULD WALK IT ONCE AND WALK IT BACK.

NO, YOU COULD. GET YOUR CAR.

KATTY, I LIKE YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT ALL THE KIND OF STAKEHOLDER DISCUSSIONS BECAUSE, YEAH, YOU'RE GOING TO NEED CITY BUY-IN FOR SURE AND JUST PUBLIC INTEREST AND BUY-IN. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S PROBABLY STILL FISH AND GAME. HAWNING SALMON AND YOU GOT A WETLAND SYSTEM AND SOMEBODY WANTS TO PERMIT THAT, HOW TO SAY? YEAH.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS, WHO OF YOU WERE HERE WHEN THE CHUCK SOMEBODY FIRST BOUGHT THAT LAND WHERE VALDEZ RV PARK IS RIGHT NOW. IT WAS CALLED BAYSIDE FOR A WHILE AND I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT IT STARTED AS. BUT HE WAS A GUY FROM TEXAS AND He wanted that land. He wanted to put a camper park there. And it was a big deal. And they were very, very reluctant. They meaning, I don't know which state agency, but it was a state agency that was concerned about protecting the wetlands. So I don't think it's going to be a walk in the park. I think they will have a lot to say about it. And that's good, because we don't want to do it the wrong way. Yeah.

I would think for a They're going to want some.

Well, I know one of the employees, long-term employees of one's, brought this one up to me because it had been brought forth before. And that's when I brought it forth back to you. So I know some people that work there, probably not the ones with authority, are on board.

I talked to Jeannie today. Oh, did you? OK, good. Hopefully, she's watching and keeping keeping up with the points being made. But yeah, she's very interested. And she doesn't get to have a say-so about it, but she certainly would know the process of working in her agency. Yes.

So I guess just because, you know, we've got 20 minutes, which seems like a long time, but maybe it's a good time now to start talking. So what's next? Do we want to form, is beautification forming some sort of like a committee to start a proposal? Because I agree, before we really get started, we need a little bit more of a solid proposal to take to council, to the public. So how is that looking or how are you envisioning that proposal process?

We have a meeting with some city employees that fly the drones and we could just kind of see the path and what's out there. We can kind of get the idea.

Are we sure we can use? Well, yeah, we can probably. Okay.

IT WOULD BE GOOD FOOTAGE TO HAVE FOR SURE FOR ANY PART OF THE PROJECT THAT WOULD BE NICE, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE AHEAD OF TIME. YOU KNOW, I THINK IT IS KIND OF PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE TO GO TO THE COUNCIL AND SAY WE HAVE THIS IDEA, BUT WE CAN'T REALLY MOVE FORWARD WITHOUT SOME KIND OF AGREEMENT. So maybe you can't render designs. But Elise, you always have good ideas for us. That's amazing, those ideas.

So I'm just mulling over what Jeremy was saying earlier. It is all of the list is chicken and egg, right? And kind of what Kathy was alluding to here is, you know, at the end of the day, these groups are advisory in capacity. You don't have any ability to spend money. So at the end of the day, it is convincing them. One option is to put together a working group. And if that's a member of this commission, a member of this commission, maybe a member of the Ports and Harbors Commission. We have not met with them on this, but it is waterfront, so it probably includes them too. Maybe if there are any technical experts that we could pull in who have surveying expertise or engineering expertise, those kinds of things, that might be a good place to start. And then I think having that, even if it's not, you know, even if it's more concept, having an idea of we want it to go from X to Y, this is what we want it to look like, is probably a good place to start, too.

Should we invite a commenter?

Would anyone on your commission want to be part of that working group? is my question at this point. And I think that I've talked to Colleen a little bit about it. And she's pretty busy. But yeah, I think Ports and Harbors would be a great liaison as well just for discussion. I think we all know people that we could tap who know stuff. And yeah. I like the idea of having an informal but formal group that just bangs out thoughts and ideas and brings little bits and pieces of knowledge. We all have something to bring to the table. And then go from there. I would love to see that happen.

Yeah, I'm happy to continue the discussion. This is all an interesting idea to me. Like I said, I've got a lot of about permits and money. I asked where this was going to go, because if we're talking about a little stub trail off Dock Point, my next question was like, what does that functionally give us for millions of dollars that we can't see from the existing Dock Point dirt trail? This is different, though. Incidentally, there are some numbers floating around for Potter's Marsh, built by Fish and Game in the mid-1980s. A million dollars was thrown at it. It started its 2010 time frame, and now they're looking to replace the wood structure, the original wood, for the tune of seven-some million.

That's a long time.

That includes, and then the $6 million to buy the property is not part of that figure.

No, it's not part of that part. And they've got most of that money. I think the last time I read about it was...

That was just quick AI, who knows what hallucinations I got searching.

Great. I am more of a dreamer. Me and Jeremy, we do really well because he's more like the logistics guy. And I'm like, it's for the kids. Let's do field trips. Let's do tourism. So I'm more the dreamer, I think, on the commission where I'm like, I can see it and being like, oh, that's great. It's a great idea. He's my numbers guy. That's why I like sitting next to him. And then Sarah kind of reigns us both in. So it works out well.

I agree. And you can't be held up completely by reality. You have to be able to. Yeah.

Yeah. Both are good. So it sounds like maybe the next piece would be. Well, it sounds like you might want to go talk to Ports and Harbor, get their opinion and buy-in. And then I think the next step, it looks like, is who are the members of each of the commissions that would like to be on that working group and then reaching out to the city? I think it's probably good to have somebody maybe from the city talk, kind of sit on that. and then finding somebody with some technical expertise. But I think getting the working group together to me sounds like the next step. And then from there, a proposal, then we have a little bit, something more solid to take to council because it's just, I think, real too vague right now for us to stand in front of council with. But that's my opinion.

I agree completely. Okay. Working group. I'll be happy to be on that, of course. And I don't think. And it can be more than one member of a commission.

It just can't be more than two. Oh, that's right.

Before we decide which of you three would like to be on. And if two of you do, then I will step back. I'm going to stand down on this one.

Okay.

Elena and Kathy. Okay.

What is that one? the last thing we did. It's all good.

Jessica Tran as well, because as her working as an elementary school teacher, I feel like she really provides a lot of that children, you know what I mean, the field trips that they do. They go to Dock Point. They do the hatchery. They do all this stuff. And I feel like that's a really good pull that she could provide. So I obviously don't need to be on there, but if nobody else wants to be on there, I'm happy to provide. as well. But yeah, I trust Ms. Tran with everything. So she's amazing.

Well, she's not here to say yes. I know. I know she's not, but I'm throwing her out there.

She says no, it goes to you. Okay.

Is that what I'm hearing? Okay. Okay. And then, and Jeremy, did you, were you interested on?

Sure. This was interesting to me. Jump in and continue discussion and

And not to put a cart in front of a horse, so to speak, and maybe if this isn't the right juncture, maybe when we have something a little bit more solid, potentially you could use that flash vote for some community feedback on if people are interested in seeing a boardwalk, putting money towards a boardwalk. probably you were talking about community buy-in. That could be a way to kind of pulse check a little bit.

I'd rather give them more information than just say a boardwalk.

I agree. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. I think when we get that, when that working group gets kind of the proposal together for council, I think council then taking and getting a pulse check. I was just throwing it out there since I've talked to your group about that. And I'm talking to Parks and Rec about it tonight.

Maybe we can, I'll contact Colleen and see if she might, or go to a meeting and see if anyone's interested in joining us, or just putting the idea out to that group. I'll look at the schedule and ask them. It has to be, or I can just go under public comment. Whatever you think is best.

We can get on the next agenda. Okay. For them, in theory, their next one will be August 2nd. August 3rd, whatever that Monday is. August 3rd.

Okay.

So they're on the first Monday. They're on the opposite Monday of us. Okay. Yeah, it would be great. I mean, I think a good working group, if it was two from this commission, two from this commission, and one or two from Ports Harbors Commission. And then who were you mentioning before, TC? Yeah.

He's very interested in what's happening. And she would have come tonight, but her daughter's coming into town tonight.

She sent me a different photo of this because she went to the city and got the plaque or whatever.

Yeah, she was under the impression that some of that land was Forest Service land All right, so then we'll

ahead and conclude i'm not sure i was like am i this is my work session is this kathy's i'm so confused you don't share anything so just so you know that's all fair that's that's actually we invited your next meeting here in 10 minutes

And thanks for having us. We really appreciate it. Thank you.

And thank you for everything. Thank you, Kathy.

We're going to do great. We always do.

I'm still wet.

What is today?

Today was the second Monday, so we have a meeting on Monday. We have a regular meeting on Monday.