Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

I would like to call to order the July 28th Test and Planning Commission meeting at 6.02 p.m. We're going to kick it off with the Pledge of Allegiance led by Chair Pro Tem Kozak. Please stand if you're able. Okay, before I go into public, oh, sorry, before we do anything, Vera, you want to do a roll call, please?

Let the record reflect all commissioners are present. Thank you.

Thank you. All right, before I go into public input, I am going to make a recommendation on the agenda based on some of the interests. I would like to move number three, to item number two, which will be the first item that we're gonna discuss.

Do I need to take a motion for that?

No, okay. So we're gonna go ahead and get started. Lots of comment cards on here, so we are gonna go into public input, but to kick that off, that's for comments that are not on tonight's agenda. So if you're here in person, please fill out a request to speak form and hand it to Vera, and we'll invite you up to the podium. If you're watching via Zoom, please raise your hand. And this is, again, for items not on tonight's agenda. Vera, at this moment, are there any public comments not listed on the agenda?

Chair, there are none. Thank you.

Thank you. So the next item on the agenda is the consent calendar. And at this time, any member of the public may address the Planning Commission on matters. Oh, I just did that. We're going to actually go on the consent calendar to the approval of meeting minutes. And the recommendation is that we approve the minutes of June 9, 2026. Are there any comments on the consent calendar here?

Chair, there are none. Thank you.

All right, do we have a motion and a second? I'll make the motion to approve. Second. All right. Vera, can we have a roll call, please?

Commissioner Higuchi?

Aye.

Commissioner Gallo?

Aye.

Commissioner Douthit?

Aye.

Chair Pro Tem Kozak?

Aye.

And Chair Mason? Aye. Motion passes 5-0. Thank you.

So item number three is going to be item number two. And this is for a conditional use permit 2026-0009. The request is to establish a religious assembly use at the 14171 and 14131 Chambers Road and joint use of parking facilities with two adjacent properties. The recommendation is the Planning Commission adopt resolution number 4546, approving the CUP 2026-009 to establish a religious assembly use at 14171 and 14131 Chambers Road, and joint use of parking facilities with two adjacent facilities. And tonight, we have a presentation by Erin Valle, our assistant planner.

Perfect. Good evening, Commissioners, and thank you for the introduction, Chair Mason. Today, I'm pleased to present to you Conditional Use Permit 2026-009, which is a request to establish a religious assembly use at 14171 and 14131 Chambers Road and joint use of parking facilities with two adjacent properties. The project site is located within our Irvine Industrial Complex planned community and is zoned as planned community industrial. The site consists of two parcels, approximately 3.5 acres in total size. The site is surrounded by residential to the north and office industrial to the east, west, and south. The project site consists of two parcels, The first parcel contains an existing 29,000 square foot two-story office building designated as Building A. Building A is proposed as the primary worship building consisting of an assembly auditorium, offices, and restrooms. The second parcel contains an existing 25,900 square foot two-story office building designated as Building B. Building B is proposed as the ministry support building, consisting of offices, a chapel, fellowship hall, and children's classroom. And as you can see on the slide, the site contains four driveways shown in yellow, leading to three parking areas on site. Moving on to the floor plan, building A consists of a large lobby area shown in blue, a prayer room shown in green, ancillary rooms such as restrooms, baptismal changing rooms, production rooms, et cetera, shown in orange, and the main auditorium shown in pink. As a note, the second story of building A contains administrative offices as shown on the submitted plan set. Building B consists of lobby area shown in blue, Ancillary rooms such as restrooms, storage areas, a kitchen and hallways shown in orange again. Children's classrooms for Sunday school shown in gold and the fellowship hall and nursery shown in pink. Building B is also two stories with the second story being a continuation of the ancillary ministry rooms. Based on the analysis of the proposal, staff has determined that Sunday services generate the highest attendance. Sunday services begin at 10 a.m. with the primary worship service. The nursery and children's classrooms will run concurrently to the main worship service. The nursery and children's classrooms are not standalone uses, but these are concurrent to the worship service. Fellowship activities will occur after the primary worship service. And once fellowship activities conclude, the Spanish worship service will begin with all Sunday services concluding by 3 p.m. The church campus will also be used during the weekday from Monday through Friday between 8 a.m. and 5 p.m. for administrative office operations within Building A. On weekday evenings, adult and youth groups will meet on site in Building B. It is important to note that most of these groups will meet in private residences. However, the campus will be open if they choose to do so there. In conclusion, Sunday services generate the highest attendance for the campus and therefore the highest parking demand. Which leads us to parking. Tustin City Code Section 9263 requires that assembly uses are parked at the most intense concurrent use. The applicant submitted a parking study prepared by a licensed engineer, which has been reviewed and approved by the city's traffic engineer. Based on our evaluation of the submitted parking study, Sunday services are established as the most intense concurrent use. The three concurrent uses comprising this peak period are the worship service in building A and the nursery and children's classrooms in building B. Again, these three are all concurrent and will be running at the same time. The worship auditorium has a proposed maximum seating capacity of 999 fixed seats, which requires 353 parking spaces. To accommodate this, the applicant is proposing a phased approach tied to parking availability. In phase one, the auditorium is limited to 699 seats, requiring 253 parking spaces. In phase two, the auditorium expands to 999 fixed seats, requiring the 353 spaces shown in the table. The project contains an existing 209 spaces onsite And in order to meet the 253 spaces required for phase one seating capacity, the applicant will enter into a joint use parking agreement with TBN for use of 44 spaces. This brings the total provided parking spaces to 253, thus meeting the required 253 spaces. In order to meet the phase two seating capacity of 999 seats, The applicant is proposing use of Kaiser Permanente parking. It is important to note that there is no sidewalk between these two sites and that prior to the phase two capacity increase, all sidewalk improvements between the sites must be completed. And you can see the sidewalk segment shown in red on the screen. Once the sidewalk improvements are completed, the use of 401 spaces within Kaiser Permanente will become available to allow for the phase two seating capacity of 999 seats, bringing the total provided parking to 654 spaces, thus exceeding the amount of parking required. I did want to add as a note, the proposed 999 seat capacity is intended for future growth. The applicant has stated that the current membership is below the 699 capacity proposed in phase one. The project is categorically exempt from the California Environmental Quality Act under state CEQA guidelines section 15301 class one, which is for existing facilities. It qualifies because the site contains two existing buildings with only interior work to the two buildings and no proposed additional square footage added. Staff's analysis of the proposed project determined that the provided parking will adequately serve the proposed use, the use will not have a negative effect on the surrounding properties, and thus, staff recommends that the Planning Commission adopt Resolution 4546, approving Conditional Use Permit 2026-0009, authorizing the establishment of a religious assembly use at 14131 and 14171 Chambers Road. and joint use of parking facilities with two adjacent properties subject to the conditions of approval. And thank you for your time, Commissioners. I am available for any questions, and the applicant is here as well for any questions you may have.

Erin, before I open this up to public comment, I wanted to bring it back to the Commission, see if you had any clarifying questions for staff.

For the record, I asked them via email. The staff has said that the vacancy rate in similar properties is up 1.5% year-over-year to 8%, and only two similar permits have been issued in the last 20 years.

Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner.

All right, I'm gonna go ahead and open it up to public comment. I have four requests to speak. I saw some people enter. If you would like to talk, speak on this topic, I would, about Chambers Road, I invite you up here to fill out a request to speak form. Right now, I will, is there anyone online for this?

There are no hands raised yet on this item. Thank you, Chair.

All right. So I have the first one. I have Terrell Thompson. I'm going to invite you up to speak. Is Terrell here? All right. And then I'm going to list the additional ones. So if you need to get up here, you can get in line over here. But Terrell, you can join us up here at the front. And then I have George Turbay, Israel Sanchez, and Jemima Hillela. So if you need to get through the crowd, please do so. Yeah. All right, Terrell. Go ahead.

Good evening. My name is Tyrell Thompson. That is my wife, Jemima Hickler, behind me. We've been a resident of Tustin for four years now. I'm a small business owner. My wife is a physician. She's in our family medicine residency program. We're also the young adult pastors of Spirit and Truth Church, and so we've been actively watching all this. We run the young adult group. It's about 120 young men and women ages 18 to 30. We're here asking for approval to locate our church in Tustin. We're currently in Orange. Our thought process is this. A strong city needs strong families. Strong families are built on healthy marriages, and healthy marriages usually start between two young adults coming together and moving forward. Isolation and disconnection between 18 to 30-year-olds, it's well documented nationally, and Orange County is not an exception for this. Cities need more places where young people find purpose, accountability, and belonging before that disconnection turns into a bigger cost down the road in social services, mental health, strain, and crime. We'll say plainly our answer comes from, unabashedly we'll say it's a relationship with Jesus Christ and a rootedness into his local church. But we believe everyone in this room would share. The underlying goal, which is young people that are healthier, more connected, and more invested in this city, regardless of anyone's faith. So here's what that looks like in practice for the young adults. We run monthly gatherings, small groups meet in homes, food and clothing drives, service days where people in need are met. And we're training future nurses, future teachers, business owners, and parents to be engaged, contributing members of Tustin. We've watched young adults come in with a lot of baggage and isolation and being directionless. And they walk out married, employed, and raising families. And nothing's going to change. We're going to keep going. So that's why we're asking Tustin to approve our church's presence here, not just as a place of worship, but also as civic infrastructure and partnership that the city will benefit from. Thank you so much.

All right, thank you so much for your comments. All right, George.

Good night, commissioners and city testing citizens. My name is Jorge Trebe and it's okay to call me George. As a certified state of California professional engineer, I can go above and beyond everything that has been discussed in the presentation. However, I trust in your judgment that everything has been followed by all the codes and regulations of the state of California and the city of Tustin. So instead, I just wanted to talk from my heart. As a member of the church, as a citizen of Tustin, by way of my background, my wife and I have been one is Pentecostal Christians for more than two decades. and have been actively serving in church throughout that time. We have worked closely with children and youth and have personally witnessed the meaningful positive impact that faith-based guidance can have in young people. Having a Spirit and Truth Church main campus in Tustin would help engage young people in family-oriented faith-based activities and provide a positive alternative to the many challenges youth face today. As these young people grow, they will be better prepared to build families grounded in strong values, personal responsibility, and moral conduct, thereby continuing Tostin's legacy. Our church's work doesn't stop there. Our different ministries serve people of all ages and backgrounds. We believe God wants the best for every person, and we have seen his work transform lives by helping individuals churn away from harmful habits and addictions, illegal activities, and wrongful conduct toward others. God's work encourages people to live responsibly, respectfully, and in accordance to the law. My wife and I presently serve in church in a ministry called Next Steps. In simple terms, we teach biblical principles that help people of all ages discover God's purpose for their lives. And let me tell you, the positive influence of the church can be significant, lasting, and far-reaching. We believe this move is happening because God is adding people to the church and has a purpose for the city. I understand completely. It may be difficult for some people to believe in the supernatural work of God. See, as I told you before, as a professional engineer of the state of California and practicing engineer, every day I have to rely on codes, numbers, formulas, evidence, yet I also believe in what God can do. Among many other reasons, I believe in God's miraculous work. Why? Because he just healed my wife from cancer after many people from church prayed for her and actually for all of us. Finally, our church's presence in the city would help build stronger families, foster a sense of purpose, encourage positive life choices, and contribute to a caring spiritual community committed to serving and uplifting the city.

Thank you, Jorge. Israel Sanchez.

Good evening. I want to thank all the city staff that has worked diligently in this project. And so as a member of this community, my name is Israel Sanchez. I'm sort of newer to the city of Tustin and I am loving this place as a place where I can raise a family and so A lot's been said about our church. Just a quick few highlights Our church is a community that invests in families Mentors young people serves those in need Creates a safe space where people from all walks of life can find hope encouragement and belonging As someone who has potentially experienced the positive impact of this church, I've seen the lives restored, marriages strengthened, children encouraged, and friendships formed across different cultures and backgrounds. And so we want to let the city of Tustin know that we're going to be a light in the city. We want to bring something positive. And we want to be a neighbor to every person that is coming from all walks of life here in Tustin as a resident. And so... I respectfully ask that you support this project and allow Spirit and Truth Church to continue making a positive difference in our community. Thank you.

Thank you. All right. Jemima.

Hello, my name is Jemima Hickler. Thank you so much for allowing us this opportunity to speak in support of Spirit and Truth Church. I am Australian, so if you hear an accent, that's where that is from. I married my husband and moved to Tustin last year and I've received my green card and I'm in the process of receiving my USA citizenship. I love Orange County, especially Tustin, which is where I've lived for over the last year, and am now lucky enough to consider it home. I am an MD physician, currently completing my family medicine residency here in the US. I will say that Spirit and Truth provides a warm, environment a home you might say to those who need it it's more than just a building it's a community for every person from every background and every culture coming here from overseas it can sometimes be hard to fit in and find your people find your community and I will say just from personal experience I am so lucky to have been part of Spirit and Truth Church during this transition and that everyone has been so welcoming and I quickly, despite having no biological family here, felt that I was part of a family, felt like I was part of a community that supported me, was there for me when I was struggling with homesickness and sadness and has been supporting me and cheering me on throughout this whole journey. I'm really grateful for Spirit and Truth for that and I think Spirit and Truth Church will give the people of Tustin and the surrounds a place to find connection in a world that's increasingly digital. Young people and youth especially are struggling and they're striving for a place where they can feel real connection and I do think Spirit and Truth is a multicultural family orientated church that has a space for everyone regardless of their ethnicity, their culture, their background, their job, and I think that that's an invaluable asset to any community. So thank you so much for listening.

Thank you very much. Pat Simonian.

Hi, I'm Pat Simonian. I own the building across the street at 14182 Chambers Road. I'd like to ask the group today in regards to the just permit. Will this be a time limit on the permit that will then once again be just reviewed? I would like some just clarification. Or is it indefinite? About seven years ago you had just granted a permit for another just building down the street that has a children's gym of some sorts. there is no street parking allowed on Chambers Road. And many times when I'm at my building on the weekends, this other just building has cars that are parked on Chambers Road. How will this be enforced? And now with what you're, just with what the church is asking for today, and is the permit short-term you know, once again come to you later on, or is it indefinite? Okay, thank you.

Thank you for your comments. So, and we can have staff follow up if you'd like. So again, any more speakers on this topic? Chambers Road. All right, I appreciate everybody coming up and speaking. I'm gonna bring it back to the commission for any, Final questions or comments?

Through the Chair.

Yes.

One of my, just not really a concern, just a question is during large holidays and whatnot for overflow parking for special events, just curious as to how that's gonna be handled.

Yes, the applicant's gonna coordinate with TBN. So for phase one, they will coordinate with TBN for large events. For phase two, they will still coordinate with both sites as they'll still have both options for overflow parking. However, it won't be as much of a concern in phase two since Kaiser will have over 400 parking stalls. But as of now, we do have condition that for large events, they will coordinate with TBN.

And is there an agreement in place or a proposed agreement with Kaiser yet?

The applicant is talking to Kaiser. They have already reached an agreement, however, it has not been recorded yet. As conditioned, the sidewalk improvements between the site and Kaiser Permanente are not existing, so we wouldn't allow the agreement to be enacted until those sidewalk improvements are complete. However, once it's complete, then yes, they can go ahead and proceed with recording that agreement.

Thank you.

Yes. Through the Chair, So what is the term of the permit, the conditional use permit here? It is indefinite, so it will run as long as the use continues, then they can continue to share parking. Again, depending on the phases, we have two different phases. If for whatever reason they never trigger phase two, then the TBN site will always continue in perpetuity. I'm not very familiar with the conditions of approval, but is there a parking program requirement? So when they're sharing with TBN, it is going to be reciprocal. On weekdays, weekday daytime, when the church is just using it for offices, TBN can use their parking since they'll only be using about like five stalls. So TBN can use their parking on weekday daytime. However, that's the only time they've stated that they'll use it. I guess I'm thinking analogously to a residential project will have a parking management program.

YOU KNOW, THAT IT'S APPROVED SEPARATELY FROM THESE ENTITLEMENTS AT A LATER DATE. OKAY. IS THERE SOMETHING LIKE THAT FOR THIS PROJECT OR IS IT ALL GOING TO BE MEMORIALIZED IN THE SHARED PARKING AGREEMENT?

YES, IT'S ALL GOING TO BE IN THEIR AGREEMENT.

OKAY. AND IS THERE, SO PARKING IS NOT ALLOWED ON CHAMBERS ROAD? NO, THERE IS NO STREET PARKING ALLOWED. THERE'S NO STREET PARKING ON CHAMBERS ROAD? OKAY.

AND WAS THERE A TRAFFIC ANALYSIS DONE? THERE WAS A PARKING ANALYSIS. THERE WAS NO TRAFFIC ANALYSIS TRIGGERED FOR THIS PROPOSAL. GOT YOU. OKAY.

MOVE ON TO THE COMMISSIONER.

I have no additional comments.

Just have a few clarifying questions. The Kaiser building, is that a 24-7 hospital facility?

No, it is not. It is Monday through Friday. I believe it is between 9 a.m. to around 6 p.m.

All right, you also mentioned that there would be some meetings in the evenings, 7 to 10 p.m.

Correct.

You also mentioned that many of those would be held at people's homes and not at the facility. Correct. So it's just there as backup?

Yes, correct.

All right, okay.

What was the previous use of the building? So thank you for bringing that up. These two parcels were once a part of TBN's larger campus. TBN has now... began moving some of their operations out of state. And so in doing so, they've sold or are in the process of selling these two properties to the applicant. So with these two specific buildings, were they office as well as gathering space? They were pretty unique. They were offices. It was mostly office and storage, and they did have some small studios for TBN's broadcasting. So they would do a little bit of studio use in these two buildings, but primarily office.

Anything else, Commissioner Higuchi?

I do not, no.

All right. Well, at this point, I am going to request a motion.

I'll make a motion to approve.

All right, and a second.

I'll second.

All right.

So Vera, can we have a roll call vote, please?

Commissioner Higuchi?

Aye.

Commissioner Galo? Aye. Commissioner Douthit?

Aye.

Chair Pro Tem Kozak?

Aye.

And Chair Mason? Aye. Motion passes 5-0. Thank you. Thank you.

All right, I'm just gonna take a few minute break if you're not interested in staying for the entire All right, I'm gonna move on to our new item number three, which is Conditional Use Permit 2026-0014. The request is to establish a billiard parlor within an existing commercial center. The recommendation is the Planning Commission adopt Resolution 4545, approving Conditional Use Permit 2026-0014. excuse me, to establish a billiard parlor at 1066 and 1068 Walnut Avenue. We have a presentation by George Maldonado.

Thank you, Chair, for the introduction. Good evening, commissioners, members of the public. Tonight, it's my pleasure to present to you this conditional use permit application. I'm going to get started by kind of summarizing the meat and potatoes of the presentation and later get into some finer points. But as mentioned, the request before you is a conditional use permit application requesting to establish a billiard parlor within an existing commercial center located in the commercial general zone, the CG zone. THE APPLICANT PROPOSES TO COMBINE TWO VACANT TENANT SPACES INTO ONE TOTALING APPROXIMATELY 3500 SQUARE FEET AND ULTIMATELY STAFF IS IN SUPPORT OF THE PROJECT AND WILL BE RECOMMENDING APPROVAL TO THE COMMISSION. THE COMMERCIAL CENTER OTHERWISE KNOWN AS PARK LANE PLAZA IS LOCATED AT THE INTERSECTION OF NEWPORT AND WALNUT AVENUE The site is zoned CG and is surrounded by residential uses directly to the east and south, commercial uses across Newport Avenue to the west, and commercial and residential uses across Walnut Avenue to the north. The business location is approximately represented by the star on the map in front of you here. On the screen is the proposed floor plan. Only interior tenant improvements are proposed, which in addition to the remodel combining this into one big tenant space, also includes soundproofing at the windows and walls. The plan has three key areas, including the main billiard area identified in red, a waiting and cashier area identified in blue, and restrooms identified in green. There are 10 billiard tables proposed with seating scattered throughout the space. And the sale of prepackaged snacks and non-alcoholic drinks are proposed. There's no kitchen, there's no cooking or restaurant activities being proposed. And again, no alcohol consumption or sales proposed as part of this application, as well as no live entertainment. The business would open daily from 2 p.m. to midnight, with a maximum of 35 customers allowed within the business at any point in time. Peak periods are expected after 7 p.m. on weekends, so that's Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And the applicant proposes controls to manage the customer flows, including sales. pre-registrations for those same peak period times, a wait list that's located indoors so that there's no waiting outdoors or loitering, and when the location is full, a one-out, one-in policy to make sure that there's no overcrowding or people waiting outside. Minors are allowed to enter the establishment when accompanied by a parent or guardian over 21 years of age, but they are not admitted after 9 p.m. The applicant proposes to organize members-only tournaments about six times a year, so that's every couple months or so, and would occur on Friday or Saturday from 6 to 10 p.m. with a maximum of 35 players. So this all fits within the regular operations of the business. It's not extending or expanding the intensity of the operations. For those tournaments, there's no ticketing, no advertising, no spectators that would be allowed to ensure that, again, customer flows are being managed. The Tustin City Code would require 23 parking spaces for the proposed Billiards Hall, and across all businesses in the center, 174 spaces are required against the 178 provided. I will note this is simplifying some math that's laid out in a little more detail in the staff report regarding a reduction in the number of parking spaces due to a variance that was approved for the site many years ago. But ultimately, 174 spaces are required and 178 are provided. Therefore, there is sufficient parking to support the proposed use. Staff identified three potential land use concerns, which as conditioned, we believe will be mitigated to within acceptable standards. First off is noise. The rear of the tenant space is about 25 feet from the Arbor Walk community to the south. And accordingly, to address potential noise concerns, The applicant will take measures, including the physical soundproofing of the tenant space, as well as some operations-based controls that we've already briefly touched on, such as ensuring that all doors remain closed during business hours, especially the rear door that's facing the residential community, which will be closed at all times and for emergency use only. The applicant will ensure that there are no outdoor activities or waiting to enter the tenant space and more. As conditioned, should the city receive noise complaints about the business, the applicant would be required to conduct a noise study, at which point the city can return and impose more conditions or requirements to ensure that the matter is resolved. Secondly, we have security. So at least two CCTV cameras would be required to operate at all times to monitor the operations, as well as there would be a manager on duty during all business hours and a no loitering policy and signage enforced at all times. The Tustin Police Department has reviewed the application and as conditioned, has no concerns. And lastly, as it relates to alcohol, just to reiterate, none is being proposed for on-site consumption as part of this application, but we do recognize that the location is adjacent to the Walnut Room, which is a bar that is operating. Accordingly, as conditioned, we've reiterated that there is to be no consumption or sales of alcohol as part of This application and should the business be interested in doing so in the future, they would have to return to obtain a brand new conditional use permit, at which point we would analyze what's being proposed at that time. So as conditioned staff believes that each concern would be mitigated to within acceptable standards. The project is categorically exempt from CEQA under class one exemption for existing facilities in that the site is an existing commercial center, the work is limited to minor interior tenant improvements, and there's no additional square footage proposed. And so accordingly, staff recommends that the Planning Commission adopt resolution number 4545, approving Conditional Use Permit 2026-0014 for the establishment of a billiard parlor at 1066 and 1068 Walnut Avenue. That concludes my presentation and I'm available if you have any questions.

Before I bring it back to public comment, Do we have any clarifying questions from the commissioners? Commissioner Douthit.

Through the chair, is the applicant here? Nice, do you mind if I have a couple questions real quick? First, I'm really interested in this one. Is there like a growing billiards community in Orange County? Is there a growing billiards community in Orange County? Oh, you mean like the... Like there are a lot of people wanting to play pool?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I personally own an equipment store in Roland Heights regarding to the beaters. And I have noticed that a lot of my customers, they are actually coming from the OC County. Yeah, especially in testing area. Yeah, so we just wanted to provide them a safe and clean environment for them to play, to practice. So yeah, one of the biggest reasons I chose testing is I believe testing is a safe and clean and diverse community. I'm here since I attended UCI since 2022. So I've been here like four years now. So I believe testing would be... A very good place for this business and also and one thing is just to clarify is that sometimes when people talking about like bidders and polls they just automatically typically related to bars alcohol. But in this case is it's not the case and for my project as thing is more like a indoor golf thing. It just is the sports itself. We consider the billiards as a sports instead of just entertainment when people drinking. So, yeah. Thank you. No problem.

Just for clarification, I asked staff just to put it out there. There is a similar billiards hall about a half mile from that does serve alcohol. So not really like for like, but just for that one has some of the lowest calls per bar. in the area, calls for service from PD, and also, since they're not alcohol, it's not really at risk of forming some district. I think that was a question, so.

All right, thank you, Commissioner Maloney. Commissioner?

Through the Chair? Yes, sir. How many staff do you plan to have at the location?

A staff will be one manager or the owner, that would be me, and adding one or two staffs to organize the stores.

Okay, and besides the CCTVs, will there be any personal security?

Like a, you know, a bouncer or anything like that? Like security. We do not plan any security because we don't have any alcohol to serve there. But we do have managers there if there are any customers that are behaving like toxic or aggressive. We just ask them to leave and they may be refused for the service in the future. Okay. Thank you.

All right, I have no questions, so. Good?

Good.

Gonna open it up to public comment. I did not receive any comment cards. Vera, is there anyone online that wants to comment on this topic?

Chair, there currently are no hands raised on Zoom, thank you.

All right, so does anyone have any final comments?

I love it. I think having a sober alternative to a growing sport, I love this idea, and I appreciate you choosing Tustin to open your billiards hall.

Sure, I believe Tustin would be pretty good. I personally like this community as well, so I plan to choose this. Excellent.

Yeah, I'll echo Commissioner Douthat's comments. This use, even the last use, promoting community-based, or uses that encourage the community to get out and engage together, I think is great. Get those dang kids away from their video games. But yeah, I think Billiards Hall has been perceived as negatively in the past. And I think the sport's changing and becoming competitive and attracting an interesting audience. So thanks for picking Tustin. Thank you.

No, Chair.

My only comment is I couldn't agree more. I feel like the first two items on tonight's agenda were inspirational and ways to create community and connection. So I will make the comment. I hope that the owner of the buildings might improve the outside a little more. That would be helpful as well. And that maybe we'll be attracting some other businesses into some areas that have been vacant. Thank you. All right, I will, so thank you. You can have a seat, and I am willing to entertain a motion at this point.

Motion to approve the conditional use permit for this biller's parlor. All right, I'll second it.

How about that? All right, so Vera, you wanna do a roll call vote, please?

Commissioner Higuchi?

Aye.

Commissioner Gallo? Aye. Commissioner Douthit?

Aye.

Chair Pro Tem Kozak? Aye. And Chair Mason? Aye. Motion passes 5-0. Thank you.

Thank you. Thanks. Congratulations. All right. Now we will move on to item number four. Does anyone need a break? Okay. So this is design review 2026-0001 subdivision map 2026-0001 tentative track map number 19470 for residential and commercial condominium purposes. General plan conformity. for 2026-001 for the street vacation of Enderly Center Drive and two conditional use permits or CUPs for 2026-004 and 007 for two new drive-through restaurants, one CUP for a master sign plan, for proposed development located at the Enderly Shopping Center south of 17th Street, east of State Route 55, north of Vandenberg Lane, and including property on the east side of Enderly Center Drive. So there's a lot here. We're going to be going through each of these one by one after we get our presentation. But so here's just going to. give you all staff's recommendation and set the Planning Commission Adopt Resolution 4547, approving the following. DR 2026-0001 for site layout and building design. Sub 2026-001 TTM number 19470 to subdivide the Enderleast Shopping Center into 10 lots with one lot for residential condominium purposes, allowing 100 condominium townhomes and nine commercial lots. Number two is adopt resolution number 4548, approving CUP 2026-0007 for one new drive-through car wash. It's an automated self-serve car wash. Number three, adopt resolution number 4549, approving CUP 2026-0004 for a new drive-thru restaurant at 17280 17th Street. Number four, adopt resolution number 4550, approving CUP 2026-0005 for a new drive-thru restaurant at 17480 17th Street. Number five, Adopt resolution number 4551, approving CUP 2026-0006 for a new master sign plan for the commercial development. Number six, adopt resolution number 4552, approving the GPC 2026-0001, finding the proposed street vacation of Enderle Center Drive conforms with the city's general plan. And tonight we have a presentation from senior planner consultant, Layla Carver. Layla.

Good evening, Chair Mason and commissioners. The item before you tonight is a request to redevelop the existing Enderly Shopping Center with a mixed use residential and commercial development. I'll go to this slide. The project is bounded by 17th Street to the north, State Route 55 to the west, Commercial to the east, and Vandenberg Lane to the south. I'll go back one slide. It's located within the planned community commercial zoning district with the housing overlay district as well, and located in the planned community commercial general plan land use designation. The housing overlay for this district would permit up to 413 dwelling units. And this project site consists of a total of approximately 16 acres, a gross acre site and 13.5 net acres across 11 existing parcels.

Can I ask for a clarification? I'm just gonna stop you. I just don't want there to be a misunderstanding that that was the zoning. It's not what's being presented is the 413, correct?

That's correct. The zoning allows for up to 413 dwelling units. But this project is proposing 100 residential condominium units. The site is currently developed with 14 commercial buildings totaling 130,000 square feet of commercial space and includes a range of restaurants, retail, and office uses. The existing site layout will be reconfigured to consolidate commercial development towards the north portion of the project site. And this will include the demolition of eight buildings and the construction of five new commercial buildings. The exhibit here up on the slide shows the plan for the demo of the eight buildings and the construction of new buildings will be shown on the next slide. The six existing buildings will remain and will undergo minor improvements. Their proposed development would result in 11 commercial buildings totaling approximately 56,000 square feet on the northern portion of the project site. Let me go to the next slide. So the project development would result in 11 commercial buildings totaling approximately 56,000 square feet on the northern portion of the project site, which includes a mix of restaurants, retail, grocery, drive-through services, and car wash, office uses, and parking areas, and two outdoor amenity spaces. The project will also include 31 residential buildings on the southern portion of the project site, which will include a total of 100 condominium townhomes, 40 of which will be attached as duplex units. Each of the condominiums will have an attached two-car garage, and uncovered surface parking would be provided for guests throughout the residential community. Other site amenities for the residential community include a dog park, a community pool, and other open space areas. The project also includes a request for the Planning Commission to determine that the vacation of Enderly Center Drive conforms with the city's general plan. So the exhibit here on the slide shows the existing Enderly Center highlighted in purple, proposed to be vacated. The access to the site would be provided via eight driveways for the commercial site, including three driveways on 17th Street, six driveways on Yorba Street to provide access to the office building, the existing office building, car wash, and primary commercial development area. Internal circulation would be provided via a 24-foot drive aisle doubling as a fire lane. Drive-through access to the drive-through restaurants, both of which would operate as drive-through restaurants, would be provided by a 12-foot lane. Access to the residential site would be provided via a driveway on Vandenberg Lane, two driveways on Vandenberg Lane. Internal circulation for the residential community would also have a 24-foot drive aisle, doubling as a fire lane. All onsite drive aisles would provide direct access to onsite guest parking and the two-car garages for the residential site. This slide shows a project perspective from 17th Street. And this slide shows a project perspective for the commercial site. The commercial site would include enhanced landscaping and The commercial amenity spaces would include outdoor dining and opportunities for community gathering and activities could include live music, farmer's market and holiday events. The commercial site provides 323 total spaces for parking, which exceeds the city's off-street parking requirements by 76 spaces. The Tustin City Code requires 247 spaces Here are some perspectives of the residential site. As mentioned, the project includes 100 residential units that are condominiums. They will be three stories. Each unit will be three stories, and each unit would include a two-car garage. And all are proposed as market rate. Residential amenities include a pool, a pocket dog run and barbecue space. Residents have direct pedestrian access to the retail by two pedestrian gates between the residential and the commercial sites. The residential development complies with the Tustin City Code, including the housing overlay development standards. The residential buildings are proposed to be between 36 and 38 feet tall. where the Tustin City Code maximum height for this area is 75 feet. So the maximum height proposed for the residential buildings are 38 feet, where the maximum height allowed is 75 feet. The residential site would provide 236 total parking spaces, which exceeds the Tustin City Code requirements by 11 spaces. Each unit, as mentioned, would include two car garage, and there would be 36 surface guest spaces. The Tustin City Code requires 2.25 per unit, or 225 total spaces for this community. The residential site includes over 37,000 square feet of open space and would be provided by common open space, as mentioned on the last slide. A project traffic study was conducted and determined there are no impacts to adjacent streets. The proposed project would generate 421 a.m. peak hour trips and 453 p.m. peak hour trips. In comparison to the traffic study conducted for the Enderle Center ReZone project, the project would generate 146 fewer a.m. peak hour trips and 10 fewer p.m. peak hour trips. And on the next slide, I will talk about CEQA, but this project did screen out of the vehicle miles traveled analysis that is required. and the project to be designed to mitigate for potential noise and soils issues from previous dry cleaner and gas stations. A noise study was also conducted for the project and the noise study recommended a sound wall at the exit of the car wash tunnel to reduce noise impacts to existing and future residents. This project for the car wash conditional use permit has been conditioned to provide a final noise study. And the condition is condition 2.11a. For the California Environmental Quality Act First, I'll talk about the city's housing overlay that was conducted and certified in 2024, which did evaluate for up to 413 housing units, plus the general plan build out for this commercial site. That project assumed housing to be on the parking lots of the existing shopping center and it didn't contemplate any demolition at that time. It did not include the vacation of Enderly Center Drive or any project specific details at that time. For this project, the city conducted a addendum to the Enderly Center Rezone EIR, and the project details were analyzed for this project. And many technical studies were done for the addendum, including a traffic study for level of service. vehicle miles traveled screen check was done a geotech report for both the residential and the commercial site preliminary hydrology report was done for both the residential commercial and car wash as well as a water quality management plan for all three components of the project, a noise study was conducted for this project, as well as air quality and greenhouse gas emissions, a biology resources memo, a remediation action plan, as well as a historic resources assessment. Before I go to the next slide, a mitigation monitoring and reporting program is included with the addendum for this project. The project was noticed as required. The public hearing notice for the July 28th hearing today was published in the Tustin News on July 16th and the Community Development Department mailed a notice of public hearing to each of the owners of properties within the mailing radius of 300 feet of the project site and interested parties and the project site itself and the occupants of the project site as well. Public notices were posted on the project site no less than 10 days prior to this meeting. And staff recommends that the Planning Commission approve the resolutions recommending approval I will mention that a revised set of conditions were provided for resolution number 4547 and 4548. and they were provided to the planning commission prior to this meeting. Staff's recommendation is to adopt resolution number 4547, approving the design review for site layout and building design and subdivision 2026-0001. for the tentative track map 19470 to subdivide the Enderly Shopping Center into 10 lots and one lot for residential condominium purposes, allowing 100 condominium townhomes and nine commercial lots. The track map requires council approval of the vacation of the Enderly Center Drive. adopt resolution number 4548 approving CUP 2026-0007 for one new drive-through car wash, adopt resolution number 4549 approving the CUP for a new drive-through restaurant, as well as adopt resolution number 4550 approving the CUP for the second drive-through restaurant, and adopt resolution number 4551, approving the CUP for a new master sign plan for the commercial site, and adopt resolution number 4552, approving the general plan conformity, finding the proposed street vacation of Enderly Center Drive conforms with the city's general plan. This concludes staff's presentation. Staff is here to answer any of your questions you have, and the applicant will also have a presentation, and their team is also here to answer any questions that you may have. Thank you.

Thanks, Layla. I'm going to invite the applicant to present now, and then I'm actually going to go right into public comments after that. We won't bring it back to the commission, so we get everything on the table.

on the redevelopment of Enderly Center. We've been working on this project for, believe it or not, five years. We started in June of 2021, and one of the small blessings I can share with you that we encountered along the way is that there was some dysfunction and some challenges with the asset. That allowed us the time to really dig into what the community, what the city council, and what the city envisioned for this particular property. While Justina Wilcombe was the Director of Community Development at the time, we explored a whole host of different options for this particular property, while at the same time, the housing overlay and the housing element were being processed During that time, Justina said, hey, what do you think about abandoning just the host of retail on this particular site as we are currently contemplating and add an element of residential because the housing element was gonna be passed and it was gonna allow for up to 413 dwelling units. We took our plans that we had, we watered them up and we threw them away, we started over. We then started to layer in conversations that we were having with various city council members at the time as to how we could implement successfully de-intensifying the to be approved housing element 413 units and de-intensify the 205,000 square feet of commercial space that could be added to this project. What you see here on the screen is five years worth of work, endless hours from staff, endless hours from city council meetings, and endless hours from our consultant team to come up with a product that creates community. Chairperson Mason, you said earlier you're looking to create community, this is it. We are adding 100 residential units, about 60,000 square feet of commercial space, and we're creating a focal point for the community to gather. All of our architecture on this site is thoughtfully designed. It is a Spanish colonial style with a modern twist. I'm gonna show you a couple of renderings right now. We'll flip through these and then we can go back to this specific site plan to talk about some of the specific items on it. And then we will bring up our residential development partner, Intracorporate Puffer, who will share some information regarding the residential component of the site. So if you wouldn't mind just flipping through, what we're gonna look at first on the screen here, not shaded is the, unshaded area is the commercial component to the project. I will note that the way the site was designed, it is a mixed use project. The architecture of the projects is consistent, the landscape is consistent, ADA accessibility is consistent, and signage is consistent throughout the project. All 16 acres at the end of the day will look and feel as one consistent mixed-use project. So specifically speaking, this plus or minus 60,000 square feet of residential that you see here will be completely redesigned. When you talked about a facelift to a project, we're only keeping six buildings. They're not gonna get a minor facelift. They are going to get an extensive renovation. I'll also bring up, hopefully later on, Armin, who's with Zoe's. He is one of the few tenants that will be staying at the project. He will be taking over the former El Torito building and is going to make a significant investment in the building to create a legacy for him and his family and for the restaurant moving forward. But that will be one of the six buildings that remains. All the other buildings will be demolished. and the site will be completely scraped to make way for new hardscape, new landscape, drought-tolerant vegetation, and ADA accessibility, and onsite water retention. So you can flip to the next slide, please. This is an aerial view on 17th Street looking down into the project. The residential is in the background. The site naturally falls from about five feet from 17th Street back to Vandenberg Lane, which is on the backside. Our desire in this project from day one was to create a cutting edge community gathering place. It's what our company does. And what we wanted to do here was to balance the residential with the commercial while creating a place that is made for the community for repeat customers. You'll see on this slide, landscape looks mature. We plant mature landscaping. We hand select all of our tree specimens. We have a grower in central California that grows olives. We go up and hand select them ourselves. Next slide please. This is the corner of 17th and Yorba. When you exit the freeway, when you're going northbound on 55, this is what you will see instead of the 76 gas station that exists there today, which is nearly 60 years old, dilapidated, and worn down. There'll be mature landscaping. beautiful architecture, and incredible signage that will welcome you onto 17th Street. 17th Street deserves an upgrade. It deserves this. It deserves this to be the tip of the spear for future redevelopment of the entire corridor, and we look forward to being the lead on that street. Next slide, please. This is an entry view from 17th Street, once again showing signage, mature landscaping, and the residential in the background. Next slide. Signage and architecture, I'm gonna move through these a little quickly, but I think you get the gist of how thoughtful and how intentionally designed the architecture is, next. We're going to have two specific ends of our retail project. One where Zo's will be located in the core of the project where we will have a town green, and the other that will be on the other side of Yorba. A connection point will be through a gazebo with an Instagram moment such as this, where people can walk between the project safely on a specified sidewalk. This is the town green. When we went through our initial outreach, and we've been through many, many, many outreach meetings to the community, to city council members, One of the biggest issues that always came back that they asked us never to abandon was the celebration of the holidays. So this specific area is designed to house specifically that and many more events in the future. This town green area will be populated with live musical performances on weeknights to give the community a place to gather while waiting for a restaurant seating or some sort of other personal service.

Next slide.

The town green again. On the right there, there's a carve out that's gonna be, we'll be able to create a stage setting there that will allow for live music, acoustical music on weeknights and on weekends. More of the architecture. This is actually, you talked about a facelift to the buildings, Chair Peterson-Mason. You wouldn't believe it, but that's one of the existing buildings that you're looking at right now. So it's going to get an extensive renovation. More of the gathering places, raised seating walls with mature landscaping. This is off the backside of Enderly Center Drive. We will have some sort of boutique fitness. We believe that it is imperative to have small fitness uses that are local. We do a lot of work with raw yoga, grit cycle, et cetera. So we're gonna bring a great name to the project to help energize the project in the morning and the evenings. I'll wait if you can flip back one more time. As I mentioned earlier, the site's not ADA compatible right now. If you go out there, it's a disaster from the standpoint of ADA accessibility. Every square inch of our project will be ADA accessible at the end of the day once we're done with all the redo of the hardscape.

Next slide.

This is the covered walkway again, adjoining the two ends of the project. This is one of the end buildings or gathering spots in the background there, which is along Yorba. So there'll be another restaurant building, which will be on the left there. There'll be outdoor seating so that the customers can enjoy the wonderful weather that Tustin benefits from. And then there'll be a multi-tenant shop building on the right. And once again, you can see the connectivity points. This will be another gathering spot. So once again, we've got multiple gathering spots throughout the project. This will likely have a fire pit, seating areas, things like that. It's really intended for people to gather. This is the small drive-through. We have two drive-throughs. This is the smaller one. It has a smaller queue lane. Many retailers, as we know, are changing the way that pickup services work. This is not meant to be an in-and-out or anything like that, so get that out of your minds. This is a limited queue lane for a small pickup window. Once again, that's the architecture. Zoe's, Armin, who we'll talk a little bit later tonight, is going to make a significant investment in this particular space. He'll share more with you maybe about what he's going to do. But we're very excited to have Zoe's be the lead restaurant at the project. Zoe's will also have a bistro. I'm not creating any spoilers here, but we're going to have the bistro, which will have restaurants. The French inspired pastries and fresh coffees and espressos and things like that they'll be a wonderful seating area adjacent to our town green where it will bleed out inland lend itself to create a more cohesive seating area for long term stays. This is more of the architecture. signage and architecture along Yorba with the driveway leading into the south side of the project along Yorba with the residential on the right hand side. This is the 55 freeway off ramp going north when you're getting off on 17th Street where the car wash is proposed. We are going to take the wall of the car wash and bring thoughtful art to that that speaks to the project and to elements that pay homage to the past of the site. The site was originally a 20-acre orange grove, and that's why you'll see in our branding and our marketing materials a nod to the orange groves. This is a look down into the town green again where we will celebrate the holidays as it has been done for many, many decades. And at this point I'm gonna turn it over to Rick Puffer who's gonna speak specifically to the residential components. So Rick Puffer's with Intercorp and he'll speak to that and we can address some other matters as we go through our presentation.

Good evening chair Mason and members of the planning commission. My name is Rick puffer. I lead our Ford planning development intercorp homes for our new residential projects that we build. As previously noted the test and enter the center is a site that has been recognized for residential development in the 6 cycle housing element. The housing overlay and the zoning that was approved for the site allows for the development of up to 413 units. We have designed a project thoughtfully that we're proud to present that integrates well within the revitalized commercial component and will have 100 residences comprised of paired homes and row town homes. Intercorp homes often build similar product type within info communities just like this one. That are surrounded by existing uses we have built in some similar projects and Tustin Irvine Costa Mesa Newport Beach just a minute just to mention a few. And we have built several projects in orange la and San Diego counties we look forward to opportunities like this of revitalization next slide please. This view reflects our townhomes along Vandenberg Lane. Each of the residences along Vandenberg face outwards towards the community and the street scene. As you can see, each of our residences feature a first floor patio, which allows homeowners to enjoy the outdoor spaces and socialize within the community. with the backdrop of the Spanish eclectic architecture. There are two vehicular entry points along Vandenberg Lane with street-lined trees with pedestrian walkways you can see there on the left side of the screen, which lead into the community, which encourages that pedestrian feel to this neighborhood and draws people into the community. Next slide, please. Within the community, There's the other product, which is the paired homes you see in front of you. These are located and situated on interior paseos. They're smaller paseos. Each of these homes have a private courtyard, as can be seen here, as well as providing an appealing experience for the residents, a place to call home. Next slide, please. This rendering is of the row townhomes within the project there's 2 courtyards it creates if you refer back to the site plan and in this experience there is socializing seating area barbecues shade trees as well as the the patios on the first level as I've mentioned. This encourages that indoor-outdoor healthy living, a place to socialize, a place to do so and not really have to venture much by expense, but just a place to come out and live with your neighbors. Next slide, please. This view is along your street where there's a green belt that situated featuring as well shade trees picnic tables as well as an activity long. You can see there some of the activities that residents would be engaging in. What's unique about this space is that with the trees that line your but there's still a sense of privacy of the providing engagement for the residents and flexible use if you can see back towards the corner. There is also a dog run that is part of this community. This provides opportunities again for these homeowners and the community feel part of the fabric that exists there. Next slide, please. This is one of my favorites for the community and the identity, which it brings, is that within the community we have, towards the center of it, a community pool, a spa, restrooms, and shade structures. Situated around the pool deck are shades lounge chairs, and in the background can be seen a shade trellis and barbecue island. Each of these amenities embrace the current community and provide a variety of amenities for young families who benefit from this walkable neighborhood in the revitalized commercial center. New homeowners are looking for experiences like this in Tustin. This approved zoning has been mentioned before requires a minimum density of 20 units to the acre. Our project is designed. Is that 20.2 units to the acre we did not push density on the site we pushed inability for to live together within the fabric that's there. There is a requirement within the zoning code for private open space. We exceed that by 37%. There is also a requirement for common open space and we exceed that by 42%. As you can see from these residences, we believe that buyers will respond well and enjoy this community because it fits into the overall fabric. We look forward to developing this community with the city of Tustin. We appreciate the staff's presentation, and as Steve mentioned, we appreciate the process and time that has led to this positive development. I'm joined tonight by members of InterCorp Homes, as well as our consultants. Together with Burnham Ward, we are available if there's any questions that you may have. Thank you.

I have a quick question before we continue. I don't know if Armin's gonna speak as well, or if you wanted to, but I just wanna address the look and feel of, I know this has been a long process, but the center itself has more of a Montecito-looking design, and this looks different, and I understood that there was gonna be a little bit more cohesion between the housing, and correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah, I appreciate the question, Chair Mason. The architecture that's been put together here within the density, we focused on the living conditions. And so within the Montecito architecture, what's carried forward, it's a true native California style. And it really creates the indoor-outdoor living at the first level. It really emphasizes courtyard space. And so you can see through the usage of materials, we've brought in those elements of the S-tile, the tying together. I think we could do a little bit more on the color tone to tie and be cohesive, but cohesive complementary, not cohesive monotone. But we have focused on these areas and these elements within the color blocking, the bay windows, the S-tile, and wrought iron elements that may not be seen in these elevations because the elevations are pronouncing the common areas.

Appreciate it.

Yep.

Do you want to flip back to one of the renderings that shows?

Yeah, there's a rendering that shows the paired homes. If you go back one or two, this is one of them. These are the bay window elements you can see on the second floor, the arched entry. I spoke about the patio space, the first level, the planter. like the outrigger base elements on the third floor. That is the bedroom level of the third floor. And then you have some siding that's also implemented. So this is done sensibly for this architecture. There is beauty in simplicity. And so that is how these elements are executed and a lot to be put together in the color blocking.

The one thing I just wanted to ensure that we're not developing 413 homes here. And it's not gonna be six or seven floors like you see over on Jamboree with retail underneath. That is not what this is. And that's not what Tustin is. And we heard that loud and clear from day one from a lot of the meetings with some of the folks that you see here today. That was their biggest concern. No parking structures with wraparound residential communities. We're not doing that. We're not overbuilding the commercial. We're de-intensifying the project responsibly. And so what the city wanted was a first-class mixed-use project, and that's what we're delivering on here today.

Okay, I'm gonna skip, if it's okay, so we can gather our questions and hear what some of the questions are from the public. I am going to thank the applicant right now for now, and you guys can have a seat.

Chair, I don't want to extend this any longer than 82, but I do want to make a couple points of clarity on a technical for the benefit of the community. One, you've heard the discussion about the 413 units. This is a housing element site. It is part of the housing element that's mandated by the state. As part of that process in 2024, we evaluated a number of properties throughout the city and this being one of them it's identified as accommodating up to 413 housing units to meet our regional housing needs allocation arena this development here is less than 413 units as required under the law we have to have we have to maintain adequate unit counts so we do have buffers that were addressed in the city to accommodate shortages that are City Council Chambers, Better met, and that is a finding that's in the resolution, so I wanted to clarify that, even though this doesn't provide the 413 units that were identified, we do have adequate housing supply elsewhere that we. City Council Chambers, balanced into our we know. Also, there was a discussion of the vacation of Enderly Center Drive. I do want to clarify that Enderly Center Drive is not a street owned by the city. We own an easement over private property. The Enderly Family Trust owns the land and we own an easement. So the vacation is a vacation of the easement for roadway purposes. We will maintain easements for access to utilities in the street should we have to take access to that. As it relates to the Enderly Center Drive, you are not taking action on the vacation here tonight. The vacation of the street is under the street and highway code. It's not an entitlement process. The city council has to make that decision. But as part of the street and highway code, it does require that the planning agency, which would be the planning commission, needs to make a finding of conformity with the general plan. So that's all you are doing today as it relates to the the early center drive. Should you approve this development project in this entitlement, the applicant would be obligated to get the vacation from the city council, which is currently scheduled for a day in September. and the council will have to make that final determination. So I just wanted to clarify those points of reference.

That last point, can you just say it again?

regarding the vacation yes so you are not making a determination on the vacation of enderley center drive today even though it's an integral part of this development project the city council has to take that action as stated in the street and highway code what you are doing today is simply making a determination that this that the vacation is in conformity with the general plan thank you should you approve this project, this development project, it would be conditioned on the fact that they would need to get the vacation from the city council, and that is currently scheduled for a date in September. That's it, thank you.

Any other clarifications from staff before we go to public comments?

Through the chair.

Yes.

Real quick, one clarification I wanted to make on the housing element. I believe this may predate you, Jay, but I think our first draft of the housing element did not include the Enderly Center.

Do you recall? Yeah, it does predate me in terms of my employment here with the city. The adoption and certification of housing elements for the state is difficult. As part of that process, the city did go through an evaluation of sites that would be rezoned to accommodate our obligation for housing. In consultation with feedback from Housing and Community Development Department, we did not distribute housing throughout the city adequately, and so we had to find additional sites. And so this site was added after feedback from the state. And so it was a multi-year process of trying to get the housing element prepared, adopted, and certified. And ultimately, this site was identified as a RHNA site, and it is an obligation under a state mandate that housing be accommodated here.

Thanks, Shane. I think the history is... important, relevant, sad a little bit. Because I do recall we tried to satisfy a Reno requirement through Tustin Legacy and it was expanded to include other sites in Tustin. So thank you.

All right, thanks Commissioner Gucci. All right, so I'm gonna go ahead and move to public comments. First person I have, I think they're online, it's Jeff Kindig. Oh, you're here in person. Come, Jeff. I'm gonna name two other people. You can maybe make your way up here so we can get through everyone. Bill Hammerly and Gary Wagner. You can go ahead and line up.

Hi, good evening. My name's Jeff Kindig. I live at 17501 Villalendo, and my residence backs up to the south side of Vandenberg, the south side of the project. We have some concerns regarding, not the project as a whole. That looks pretty nice. I have no problems with that. But really, three points. The mitigation of noise and intrusion are daily living. I would propose that the board give the directive to the developer. Well, first, go back. The noise and vibration report said it was less than a significant impact on the residents in the area. I would kind of disagree with that. Less than impact. It could be a tenth less than a significant impact. You know, we're right there on Vandenberg. You know, I would request that the Board or the Commission direct the prohibitor, direct the developer to prohibit construction traffic, the heavy equipment, the big rigs, from traveling on Vandenberg between Enderle Center and Yorba and to allow their vehicles to stage on Yorba between Vandenberg and 17th and maybe wrap around to Enderle Center to prevent some of the noise intrusion and the effect it would have on daily life. And to maintain an uninhibited ingress and egress to the Park Tustin Association's entrance on Vandenberg. That's the only entrance we have into the community on Vandenberg, other than the two that are on Yorba. And we also need to make sure that that's open for emergency equipment in the fire department to get. The second point is the hardship that it would cause not to have parking on Vandenberg during the project's construction and after the project's construction. So we'd ask the Commission to do what you do, adopt or direct that parking on Vandenberg continue. And my third point is for traffic safety. On Vandenberg, there is a, for lack of a better term, a butt out at the T intersection of Enderly Center Drive and Vandenberg. That serves a purpose. There's been multiple accidents where vehicles have been coming down Vandenberg, east and west and south, and have gone right over the curb and into block walls, mine being right there as well. And that creates a hazard for the residents that live there, myself and my family included. We requested that that remain intact in fact a couple months ago there was an an accident where vehicles traveling westbound lost control in that but out prevented that vehicle from going into the block wall which could hit my unit or my neighbor my neighbor to the left so that serves a vital purpose and we requested that remain in the plan, I think that's documented on. exhibits 2B and 3B of your packets. That's all I have. Thank you.

All right, thank you for your time. All right, Bill Hammerly.

First, a request. Could the Planning Commission talk a little louder or get a little closer to the mics? Those of us that wear hearing aids in the back are having a hard time keeping up with what's being discussed. That said, I'm not here to criticize the project. Obviously, a lot of work has gone into it, but a couple of general comments, and they relate to the car wash and the two drive-through restaurants. It seems to me that at some point, we as a city, as a commission, need to come to grips with when are we saturated with car washes? You know, we've lost the restaurant down on Red Hill. It's now gonna be a car wash. We've got a car wash coming in here, and they're everywhere. So at what point are we satisfied that we finally have reached a point where we've got enough? I don't understand, and it's probably my fault, but what is an automatic or an automated self-service car wash, and is that designed to be a 24-hour operation, or is there gonna be a restriction on the hours of operation of the car wash? And then secondly, on the drive-through restaurants, if you took a drone and flew over the site, and I appreciate the comment that this is not going to be an in and out, but then exactly what is it going to be? Because there are big drive-throughs, there are little drive-throughs surrounding the site right now, so having a better, a clearer understanding of just what that vision encompasses in terms of an actual use, that it's gonna be a single lane, but what is going in there? And finally, at the last council meeting, a comment was made by one of the council members about, and it was, I call it frustration, about how some things are getting approved, and I used the dental office down on the corner of Irvine Boulevard and Red Hill. It's been years in development, so I would hope that whatever's gonna happen, that we can go at it full steam ahead with an aggressive schedule that can be presented to the public so we can get an idea of just when this is gonna hit the street running, and we can all look forward to what that's gonna be. Thank you.

All right, Gary Wagner. My question was already addressed. All right. Thank you. Appreciate you. All right. I'm going to give three names in order. Liz Allen, Armin. I don't know how to say your last name, Armin. And Emily Sorcher.

Hi, good evening. My name is Liz Allen. I've lived in that 14161 via Posada since October of 1992. And I don't know if this is appropriate right now, but Interleave Center Drive has been my go-to street that whole time. You know, it's a way to avoid having to get onto 17th Street, and not deal with the traffic on 17th, and a lot of people use that. Enderly Gardens has a lot of older people. They love Enderly Center Drive to, like, get down to Santa Clara or get to Staters. It's just... it's a street that's popular for a lot of people and a lot of people do not think it should be vacated and it also doesn't make sense that um you're going to add 100 homes which is going to be 200 cars why would you add 200 cars and take away a street i mean that doesn't make any sense and also there's the new complex on prospect in 17 so there's gonna be a couple other hundred new cars. So 17th is gonna be packed and it sounds like all the activity on Yorba Street here is gonna make Yorba even more popular. And I don't really see, all I saw were a couple trees on Enderleast Center Drive. I don't see the purpose of it. Maybe it might look pretty, but it's not practical. I mean, if they want to join the two sides, perhaps they could build a pedestrian bridge over the street or come up with some other idea. So I don't know that, I don't see how vacating Enderleast Center Drive will conform to things when it's going to make traffic worse and there's really no reason for it. You're just putting in a look like a couple trees on the street. So I would hope you would consider this for all the existing people, the new proposed site looks great, it just, if you could just keep Enderly Center Drive, and also I kind of agree with the car wash, there are quite a few other car washes in the neighborhood, I don't know why we need another car wash, maybe there's a different idea that's more exciting they could come up with. Okay, thank you. Oh, do you know the date of the City Council meeting in September?

We will turn that over to staff to make sure you get that information. Thank you. Thank you. All right, Armin.

Good evening, Chairperson Mason and commissioners. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to speak to you. My name's Armin Karmardian and my family have operated Zoves here in Tustin for 39 years. And I know there's a lot of stakeholders here tonight. We're newbies to Tustin. We know there's generational families and we've taken great pride in being able to build our business here in this city. Enderly Center has been a beacon in the community, not just Tustin, but surrounding cities. Mr. Enderly really was a passionate property owner. He was very passionate about the center that he and his family developed. And it spawned our ability, my mother's ability, to start a business back in 1987. And continuing that legacy for us is very important. And there was a time after Mr. Enderly's passing that the center lost its way. Sharon, God bless her, did everything she could to keep it together. But without the founder's mentality, without the vision of Mr. Enderly, you see this happen. The second and third generations just lose their luster. That happened in our center. And we were actively looking at leaving Enderley Center. We were actively looking at other sites, Tustin, outside of Tustin. And thankfully, Berna Mord stepped into this project and convinced us that this was worth staying for. And I hope that what you see here gives some indication of that. The center, like much of our surrounding areas, needs an evolution. And it takes vision. it takes resources, and it takes skill. And I would say that Berna Morda encompasses all of that, which is why we've decided to stay and have looked at keeping Tustin as our flagship, we refer to it as our flagship, and we could not be more thrilled to be able to reinvest back in Tustin. I don't know if there's any interest, but I'd be happy to show a little bit about kind of the vision of what we're gonna do with some of those slides. What I'm really thrilled about is And I'm glad that Justina, I never heard that from before, that Justina had mentioned maybe reducing some of the retail. Because if you look at our center, there's that back facing portion of retail that's really never been able to create much energy. And encompassing a need, and I know there's a lot of sentiment about housing, but there is a need for housing. I have children, there's not enough houses, I'd love for them to be able to have an opportunity at some point in their life to have a home, something like this. But this satisfies that need. because the backside of our shopping center has just been back storage lots or just back doors. So this really satisfies what I think will bring that level of community that has been referenced quite a bit tonight. And that level of community and early center, having the exterior space that has been proposed as the town green, I think is brilliant because We look forward to the Thursday before Thanksgiving every year because that's the kickoff to the holidays. And to be able to continue that is imperative. So in closing, I would just like to commit my unwavering support for this project. It's needed. We're thrilled to be a part of it. And I hope that you take all of those considerations into your decision and I appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you.

Emily Sorcher. Oh, sorry. Hold on. Emily was not able to join us, so I'm just going to file this with her comments with the city. All right. Thank you. All right. Karen Robb, our AAB. Come on up.

I'm an emotional speaker, so I'm gonna try not to cry. Thank you for your service and your support through all of this. I believe that Burnham Ward is a fabulous developer and I love their projects. I'm not here to speak for or against the project. I'm here to speak about our longevity at Enderly Center and who we are. My family has been a part of Enderly Center since 1978. I'm already going to cry. My mother's in memory care right now, so it's especially emotional. My mother opened Artistic Eye nearly five decades ago, and today that business continues as Chemers Gallery. After 47 years, we are still here because we've continued to evolve, adapt, and remain relevant. What we've built is much more than a business. For decades, Chemers Gallery has supported nonprofits throughout Tustin and Orange County. We have donated our time, resources, and our work to organizations that strengthen this community. We are proud to be the only independent art gallery and custom framing business in Tustin. We also provide framing for institutions like the Bowers Museum, Laguna Art Museum, and Grand Central Art Center. In addition, we put on shows that bring large numbers of visitors to our center, bringing recognition to Tustin through the work that we do. What saddens me most is not simply that we are being asked to leave, It's that after searching for nearly a year, there appears to be no place left for us in Tustin. We want to stay in Tustin. We have tried everything we can to remain part of the community. We have called home for nearly half a century. I'm also thinking of the people who make this business what it is. I have the best team I've ever had, creative, talented, dedicated people, who care deeply about our customers and this community. Their future is uncertain because there is nowhere for us to go. And I'm thinking of our customers. Every day, our gallery as a gathering place is where friendships are made, where art is discovered, where memories are preserved through custom framing, and where many middle-aged and older women find connection and community. These kinds of places are becoming increasingly rare, Yes, Enderly Center is an older shopping center, but a community should not only be measured by the value of its real estate. Its true value lies in the people, the small businesses, the relationships, and the sense of belonging it creates. I understand that we have California mandates and change is inevitable. I am not opposed to progress. When a place like Chemer's Gallery disappears, Tustin loses more than a tenant. It loses part of its history, part of its culture, and a place where people have felt welcome for generations. Thank you very much.

Thank you. All right. If there are not any more comments, I am going to bring it back to the, oh, online, we do. Let's go.

We have Melissa Seeley. Go ahead, Melissa.

Hello, thank you. I just wanted to bring up the traffic study. I don't see how it's possible that 200 more cars will not affect the traffic in the area. And adding the new development that's going to be going in down 17th, I feel there's going to be a great impact on the surrounding neighborhoods and on the traffic. And I would like to hear more about what that traffic study entailed. because it doesn't seem possible that it won't have any effect on the traffic in the area. And also, for nearby residential areas, if there is a plan for resident-only parking permits to protect our neighborhoods. Thank you. Thank you.

Vera, anyone else? There are no other hands raised. All right. If you would like to speak, would you come up and fill out a speaker's card and then you can go ahead. Thank you. Yeah, right up here. And you can fill it out after, okay?

Hello my name is Patty Moulton and I live in the project on Vandenberg Lane that's I guess on the west of no I'm sorry east of where this project's going and I too wonder as the woman who just spoke how there won't be more traffic on Vandenberg Lane when the entrance to this residential area will be on Vandenberg Lane, plus I too use Enderly Center Drive every day to get home. I realize I could come on Prospect or Yorba also, but Enderly Center Drive allows me to get to the, to things I go to that extend now. Enderly Center Drive becomes Yorba again. So I am sad to see that go. And I also am curious, I know it's going to be a commercial center and there's going to be restaurants, but do they know yet who's coming in? Two fast food or drive-thru restaurants and a car wash... is not that appealing to me. So I'd be curious to see who is going to be occupying that center.

Fill this out. Thank you for your comments. Pete, come on up. You have to fill out a card when you're done.

I'll fill out the form later. I have a unique situation of having lived in the condos that you guys lived in. There are problems with parking, but my viewpoint is always going to be problems with parking. Because if these gentlemen don't do what they're doing, somebody else will come in. So I think after five years of putting this thing together, my hat's off to you guys. You've done a wonderful job. And I do worry about the traffic. I really do. Coming in and out, there's going to be a problem. Also for the parking for across the street They've been using the road and I don't know if they could still do that It would be nice if they could because it doesn't really stop any on their side. It seems to be okay They're parking on the other side now, which you'll have homes. That would be a problem. So I think there may be some compromise there also I know if Al Enderly was alive, I don't know how we would think one way or the other, but I think he would approve of Zoves being there. I had my Gretchen, my better half had her birthday there a month ago, and I'm going to have mine there. So it is a place that we call home. So whatever you do, God bless you. And I know you guys have a big decision to make here. And thank you for listening to me.

Thank you. All right. Now I will bring it back to the commission. Commissioner Gulo.

All right. A lot of thoughts on this one. I imagine we all do. So first off, I think... Growing up in the neighborhood, like known Enderly Center for what it is, a lot of great family memories there, shopping, and personally love of small businesses. Reminds me as a kid going to Old Town Orange and shopping in small things with my mom. So there's a part of that that I am sad to see go. But also when I look at the proposal and what's there, we've considered other proposals that I understand why the city needs them. and excited for what they can be. But this one really gets me excited. It's something special. It's very clear the developer did not put in the bare minimum of what was needed, but really struck a really interesting balance. Even, you know, I think it was somewhere around 20% of the host base is even open space. And I think that's special. And I'm excited to see that build and will be excited if this goes through to see what it brings to Tustin. It's kind of a self-contained, neat little neighborhood. So I'm excited. I'm excited about that. But with that, something to note, maybe a question for the developer. This seems to be a little more higher end. I know there's always talk about affordable housing and whatnot. Can we clarify, are we willing to say if this is targeting a more luxury audience, both in the retail and the property? And if so, do we have any market prices that we believe would be targeted for this neighborhood for the housing specifically?

I think, yeah, it'd be great.

Thank you, appreciate, is the mic on, sorry? Yeah. All right, appreciate that question about the affordability. If you can go to the applicant slides, there's the appendix and there's the first slide in the appendix. Can you guys hear me, I'm sorry? Okay.

Vera, is that mic on?

Yeah.

She's just tall, you gotta like.

Yeah, here, is that better? Yeah. Okay, so if you can go back to the applicant slides in the appendix, there's a slide, the first one in the appendix. So, to answer your question, Commissioner, these are market-rate townhomes. Part of the reason they're three-story is because to get the density, number one, the parking being at the first level, each of these are two cars side-by-side, right? And so with that, as they pan to this appendix, it'll show one of the slides, which will help me make my point, is the second level is the great room and kitchen. The third level is the bedroom space, right? If this were two-story, you wouldn't really be able to get there. One more slide right there. Hold that. OK, so we have a lot of people come to our communities knowing that its market rate and when they look and they want to buy so many people want to buy right now. But right now the interest rate environment is very difficult for them. And so this is a program that we have part of it's using FHA guidelines. But what we do is we're able to buy down the interest rate. So the price of the home is the same. It doesn't hurt anybody who lives in the nearby area. But what it does is there, if you can see the savings, the numbers are kind of small there. They could choose if they want a temporary buy down or a long term buy down. It will save them as much as $500 a month. And so that's how we help them afford this market rate purchase. And who gets the equity? The buyer. They're vested in the community. They don't have to share it with Citi, anybody else. And so that's how we accomplish this. So it is market rate, may appear expensive, but we create programs such as this. We utilize a program such as this to help young, working class people that live in the community afford our homes. This is one of those programs.

So would you say a 950 would be a median price, starting price, or just sample for this slide?

That would be for the townhomes, that would be the median. Okay. For the paired homes, that would be on the lower end. That's why we have this diversity of the two product types, yes.

Okay, appreciate it. And maybe while you're up here, a couple more questions. Sure. Would you say there are similar developments kind of with that mixed use, both commercial and residential components in Orange County?

There are. This one is unique on the mixed use because it's horizontal mixed use. There's an area for privacy and living and community, which would be homeowners. There's the other part that's also accessible through separate driveways, which disperses traffic rate and everything else. That lives on the other side. If somebody wants to walk to an establishment, we are taking cars off the street by allowing homeowners to walk to those entertainment and eateries and locations, as you see here. So it is the horizontal mixed use. The way that this is special is that you have complimentary uses, but they're horizontal and so people can live in peace within the residential side and participate in the activities that exist in the commercial side.

I'm not sure if you wanted to add to that. Yeah, I'll add on to that. Do you mind flipping back to the site plan? Just to, I want to speak a little bit about and show what Rick just mentioned on the site plan. During the development of the site, the last one's fine, or any of the site, perfect. What we decided to do was to create a separation using a transparent fencing system. So there's pilasters with wrought iron gates between them so that you can, there's transparency between the two projects. However, there is points of access through a gate. So there's still the privacy and security for the residential community that allow immediate access, safe access at crosswalks to our commercial site. So I wanted to just point that out, that there are control points for safety and for security. As it relates to the retail and the price points, it's a great question. We get asked that question a lot. Pete's been at Zoves once and going again here momentarily. Zoves is a price point that we can all appreciate. It's a special occasion. It's a lunch. If you go there at lunchtime, you see all walks of life in there having a wonderful meal. We believe in creating tenancy and co-tenancy that's commensurate with the trade area. And so you will not see an outlandish price point retailer by any stretch of the imagination. It will be something that's conducive to the trade area.

I think my question is not a commentary, is the price point good or bad? It's trying to understand the vision you're creating. And I think some of the community has asked that as well. Are there tenants in mind that would be occupying this or kind of sample tenants that you can share that might help us understand when that vision is realized?

Sure. Sure. So what we'll have is a coffee house of some sort. One of the drive-throughs up towards Yorba and 17th is intended to house a coffee operator. We have a lot of interest from not only the names that people are familiar with, but also smaller local companies that have an interest in joining us in developments where we move throughout Orange County. So you'll see a coffee operator, you'll see a boutique fitness concept, which won't be a huge price point, but once again, it's creating an ecosystem that allows people to come back and visit time and time again. Retail will be approachable. I'll use a name, I hate doing this, but Susie Cakes is a name that's extremely interested in this site. It's a huge hole in the market. They want to be a part of every family celebration in this community. It's a name, we've done two or three deals with the owner and founder of the company, And they have an extraordinary interest in being here. So it's those types of tenants that want to be located here.

Sure. I mean, some of the public has asked if, you know, they've expressed some sentimental love of local businesses.

Yes.

Do you think in your development, do you see it being more national chains, bigger brands, local, blend of each kind? What's your approach to that?

It would likely be a blend, but probably leaning more towards the local.

Okay. Yeah. Fantastic. Okay. Glad to hear that, right? I think that really fits in line with the legacy of the Enderly Centers. That's really nice. Timeline, is there a timeline for when we could see this, you know, if approved, like come to life?

Yes, our goal is to be open for the holidays in 2027. So we are already advancing our efforts in terms of our construction documentation and all of our forensics of the existing buildings have been completed at risk, obviously, because we do want to get ahead of it and we do want to start construction and we do want to have the community be able to enjoy the center for the holidays in 2027.

Fantastic. And maybe while you're up here, one last question for you. And I think you kind of alluded to it, maybe more of a comment. You brought some public art to it. I think it's fantastic bringing on that legacy of the Orange Groves. Might encourage you just so that there's other opportunities to consider public art as the city's developed kind of a robust public art program.

Absolutely. We have public art at all of our projects. We believe in supporting local artists. You will find murals in our Master Sign program and other areas. It wasn't represented in our renderings, but We are absolutely planning to have art throughout the project.

Thank you.

Yes.

I do have a few more questions that might be better aimed for staff. I think we talked about how this is not necessarily counted to our housing allocation. Is the other parts of the housing allocation part of this District 1, or is it located elsewhere in the city?

Yeah, so this does count towards our housing allocation for above moderate income. The buffer units are currently located in the legacy area. So the units that are not built here will have to be accommodated in the legacy.

The legacy area? Fantastic. And about the vacating Enderly Drive, is it going to be, so there's a signal currently on the north end of it I know it's an odd intersection where Yorba continues on Emberley Drive, not continuation. As part of the vacation, will that north part of it that's a driveway still stay and stay signaled?

Yeah, so the signal at Emberley Center Drive at 17th will remain. And we will maintain easement access to utility boxes and traffic signal boxes and all that. So there would be no, realistically no change to that intersection.

Will there be some coordination of lights for some of the folks who have commented that they might use Enderly Drive as a cut-through to allow folks on Yorba who wish to continue up Yorba Will there be some light work there to help with that?

I don't necessarily want to answer for the traffic engineer, but we continually consider traffic signalization, and as part of this project moves forward, we'll take into consideration traffic signal timing and things of that nature. I think that's an appropriate response. I'm looking over to traffic. Okay. Yeah, all right. So yeah, so it is an ongoing assessment, and as this project moves forward, we'll make accommodations.

Okay, I think we also did receive one comment on parking. I've gone over there a couple times in the last couple weeks. It seems to be Vandenberg is mostly empty for parking. I would say there's kind of a part on the west side of Enderly that's maybe 60 to 70% got some cars parked on the street. But as you go further towards Prospect, a couple times I went there, there was not one car parked on that street. I know that might be impacted with some of the other developments, but I think there's ample street parking, and I guess note to that to whoever commented on it. Last comment, I think Armin commented that he might have more of the vision to share. I don't know if this is the forum, but I imagine the public would love to see the rest of your vision of what you're creating there. So me as well. Yeah, I don't think this would be it, but maybe to share some of that on social or with the community, I think that would be really well received. Yeah, yeah, that's all for now.

I have a couple questions for the developers. I heard a lot about some of the concerns. Why did you feel the need for two drive-thru restaurants?

So one, maybe if you could go back to the site plan, I'll just specifically address the two drive-throughs. While she's taking up the site plan. On the northwest corner of the site up there at 17th and Yorba, That has a longer queue lane associated with it can accommodate 14 to 15 cars in the queue, which would lend itself to be more of a likely a morning coffee store location. What we found at projects where we're able to deliver a coffee drive-through experience is that you usually get a lot of mothers that are commuting, taking kids to school, have kids, little kids in the car, they're coming back and forth in the mornings and or the afternoons. And it's also commuters that are just on their way using their route to work. And so what we like to do is try to push that off to one side of the project. It will also have a cafe concept associated with it, so it will also be sit-down. It will just have a drive-through as part of the offering. On the northeast side over there at the corner of Enterly Center Drive, that is a small drive-through lane, and it's really intended to... I'm gonna use just Chipotle as an example for pickup services. More and more retailers are starting to embrace delivery services and so there's, and or pickup for families that are waiting in the car with kids once again where you can order ahead and just pick up and not wait in a queue line to order. So that wouldn't be an intense use by any stretch of the imagination nor would the other drive-through line. It's not a Chick-fil-A or a Raising Cane's. Those are the concerns we get. Those are not the types of tenants that belong in this project.

So one of my concerns that I would love for you to rebut is that you are emphasizing a very robust walkable community here, and then you have ultimately three drive-throughs, a car wash, and two retail drive-throughs. How do you think they're conflicting? Do you think that You know, you've spaced them out.

No, I think they're complementary. I think there's going to always be a need to have some sort of drive-through component, and by pushing them to the north side of the project and away from the walkable section, which is where our walkway and gazebo-covered area that connects to two people and the gathering locations, as you can see there on the screen. It's a little hard to see because it's the shaded one. But the drive-through traffic was really intended to be pushed up against 17th Street. 17th Street, as we all know, is extremely busy, and we thought that that would be out of the way and provide a service to the community.

Good. Why, again, this is a very well-thought-out five-year project, so that's why I'm just asking a couple questions on this. Why did you feel a car wash was needed there?

So it's a very interesting question. So the building that is currently there is functionally obsolete. It's a two-story office building that was constructed in the 70s. And it, like most other Class C office buildings in the city of Tustin, is probably, well, it's about 80% vacant now. But the vacancy market right now is probably 35% in Class C office. And that's probably why you see Tustin Financial Plaza being demolished, because there's too much office right now. So when we looked at redeveloping the site, we didn't want to add another drive-through. And we don't look at this as a drive-through facility, although it is a self-service car wash. We didn't want to add another drive-through or any food use because it's a long, narrow parcel and it sits directly on a freeway off-ramp. So in creating a little buffer with landscape, a small building, it allows us to service a need. And believe it or not, I know there's talk about there being a saturation of car washes. Where there's demand, supply follows. And so there is a need, there is a desire to be in Tustin along this particular corridor for a drive-through car wash. And we felt that there was an economic balancing that takes place with the whole site in order to develop a car wash. on this particular parcel because of how narrow it is. There's actually a pinch point of about 75 feet on that site, so it makes redevelopment of that parcel very difficult for any other use. I mean, you could do some, there's probably something else out there, very low-income affordable housing, but I don't want to even get into that because we'll never hear the end of that. But a car wash is a great complimentary use. It brings visitors, it creates tax revenue for the city, and it's complimentary to our project.

And I assume it's not a 24-hour car wash? It will not be, no. Do you have an idea on the hours of the car wash?

No, it's gonna depend on the operator, but it would be reasonable operating hours, daylight hours.

Do we have hours of the car wash in our CUP? Okay.

No, we have not established our restrictions for the car wash.

So if we approve the car wash as is today, it could be a 24-hour car wash?

We have not conditioned it, so theoretically, yes. We don't have any restrictions in the city as it relates to hours of operation.

Okay. So back to the drive-through retail centers. One of my concerns is that they are incredibly successful, and then you just have a parking lot full of cars and pedestrians trying to walk through it. Is there a way to mitigate that incredibly successful drive-through?

First of all, there's conditions that staff has put into our conditions of approval that would eliminate that from happening. So that's your backstop. But as an operator of many shopping centers, successful shopping centers in Orange County, Southern California, we proactively push and put in our leases with our tenants that they're required to not allow stacking to go beyond the throat of the drive-through. And so we put the burden back on the tenant. The tenant can basically pull customers out of the line if they wanted to, if it ever got to that. But I don't see that happening at this particular site. Okay.

And let's see. You answered construction timeline. That's good. I think that's it that I have for the applicant. Thank you very much. I got a couple questions for staff. 75 feet tall is, in theory, permitted in this area. About how many stories is 75 feet?

From a practical standpoint, in terms of construction style and what have you, you're probably looking at a five, six-story building. Five, six stories?

Probably six. Six. The tallest building in this one I've heard is three. In this proposal? This proposal. Yeah, three-story. Okay, so it's about half the height that we could potentially allow. I've heard a lot of comments about the traffic study. That's available online, right, for the public to view?

I believe the traffic study is part of the addendum that's online. So yeah, you can access it through looking at the addendum that's attached to the staff report.

and last one i think we've touched on it a couple times but 415 units are permitted at this point and in theory it could be more if they use some affordable housing incentives is that 413 units are permitted on up to seven acres uh based on the housing element and the arena obligations under state mandate so yes a developer could come in and propose 413 units

on seven acres and using density bonus under state law, they could increase that. Even more? Theoretically speaking, they could double it, but I don't think that's practical or reality.

Yeah, that's crazy. And this has how many units again? 100. Thank you. That's it for my questions. Thank you very much.

Commissioner Noguchi.

I THINK YOU SAID YOU HAD RENDERINGS PREPARED TODAY OR DID I MISS HEAR? I WOULDN'T MIND THAT. WOULD YOU ENTERTAIN US AND WALK US THROUGH THAT? HOT OFF THE PRESS.

OKAY. IF YOU COULD SHOW THE ONE THAT SHOWS THE RESTAURANT. And I don't know if anyone, if you can see that, that is our existing patio now. So.

Without the extension, it's removed.

Correct, so the physical building of the restaurant where, to the right of it is, no, it's directly ahead. So you can see that large scale is gonna be that town green. But to the left, if you could show the slide to the left of the former El Torito space. There you go. So the entrance will remain roughly in the same area that it is today with the El Torito, but everything to the left side of the building is not ADA compliant. So there's a step down into the bar, the restrooms aren't compliant. So that entire left side of the building is going to come down and be rebuilt back from the ground up. It'll be one level, there won't be a step down. And what you'll have rather than the bar and the restrooms on that side, you'll have dining space, two separate dining rooms, dining room one and dining room two. And I love your thought. We are actually filming a social piece tomorrow. And in part of that, we will integrate some of the inspiration, not an exact rendering, but some of the inspiration behind what we're going to do. And facing the street. will be a four seasons patio, a covered patio looking out to 17th Street, activating that visual for guests that are driving by. So if you're looking at the building, that left side. So the front will be a lot of glass, more of a parapet, flatter roof, but still tying into the architecture of the shopping center. We're designing with our designer in cooperation with the Burnham team to make sure that the project is harmonious. It will look like it was designed simultaneously. So to the right, if you're familiar with the El Torito, where they currently have their buffet, that large vaulted ceiling, that will be our bar area. And to the right of that, that elevated platform, that will be where the restrooms are located. We're designing what we're proclaiming to be the tallest back bar in Orange County. So it's gonna go to the very top of the ceiling, which will be about 26 feet high. There'll be a ladder on a rail that'll float around. It's gonna be visually stunning. A lot of Mediterranean architecture with arches between each of the corridors leading between the various dining rooms. Now, if we can go to the slide that shows the far right. No, there was one that gave that, there you go, there you go. You'll have the restaurant to the left side of the building. And of course, we have our bakery cafe, the very European inspired patisserie, as you will. That entrance is actually to the side we wanted to make sure that entrance was a little off to the side so that guests could flow into that outdoor dining area in front. So that will be consistent, that patio in the front will be an outdoor, very European, umbrellas that caters to that. We were talking a little bit about what type of tenants will you see. Our bakery originally, when my mother started this in 1991, was a fast casual, counter-serve bakery cafe, limited menu, and what was in the cafe was not available in the restaurant. It reverted into having two full-service restaurants that are essentially in the same building. We have an opportunity now to reset and go back to that casual counter-service. Your food is brought out to you. If a guest is choosing to dine alone, they want to do takeout, they want to be on their laptop, put their headphones on. It's a different experience than you get in our current cafe, which morphed over time. So this will bring in that consumer that may not want to sit in a full-service upscale restaurant, but somebody who wants a cappuccino, a sandwich, a pastry, and just have a leisurely day sitting in this beautiful environment. So without having the visuals, that's kind of an overlay of what's going to happen with the restaurant, if that helped.

I just heard big back bar, so that was great. Big back bar. Full bar.

But again, another community gathering spot. It all goes back to community. We don't have the luxury now of a lounge area where guests can sit not in a physical bar seat, but in a comfortable lounge seat where you can have friends or couples enjoying a small bite and a drink. This new space will have all of that. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you.

Chair, if I could, just to clarify for the members of the public, at this point, nothing has been submitted by Zoves. So this is not a public hearing related to that. It's just simply the vision of what they plan to do. They will need to submit an application to the city for city review and approval.

And so while we're talking about vision and future, so I'm not sure you asked this because I was thinking. The CUP for the, do we have to go through a CUP process for the car wash so that they would come in terms of their hours and, or is that like?

So the conditional use permit for the car wash is currently being before you today. So there would not be a revisit of the CUP unless the applicant comes in, the actual, car wash tenant comes in with something that deviates from what's before you today. So the conditional use permit for the car wash would be entitled today. If it's your desire to include hours of operations, we sure can do that. My recollection is we included hours of operations for the car wash on Edinger, but that was based on their proposal, their proposal for hours of operations. So we don't have a tenant today to provide us that context.

All right, thank you.

Go ahead. Staff report indicated a net negative of 146 a.m. trips and a negative of 10 p.m. trips. Could you better explain that for me in crayon?

In crayon?

Is that what you said? Or a marker, whatever, you know me, whatever.

Highlighter. I'm not the traffic engineer, but let me try to clarify a few points. one when we say that there is no significant impact we're not saying that there won't be cars added to the street obviously the existing development is underutilized so when we redevelop the site with new tenants new uses new activity there will be vehicles that are added to the street when we do a traffic analysis the the traffic analysis based on industry standards considers whether or not the number of vehicle trips that are added to the street will create a significant impact, i.e. the intersections will fail to operate at an acceptable level. When we look at the project today, there's I believe 132,000 square feet of office, retail, et cetera. There will be 56,000 square feet of commercial and a significant reduction of office from what exists today. Additionally, when we look at 100 units, residential units, they do also operate at different peak hours than commercial and office do. And 100 units in the context of the amount of traffic that exists on 17th Street is insignificant. It's just not, I know that it looks like a big project to the public, but when you look at the volume of traffic on 17th, it's a drop in the bucket, to use some kind of analogy, if you will. So when we ran the numbers and we looked at the project, and ultimately at the end of the day, the amount of vehicle trips that are generated by this project is just not as significant enough to affect any of the level of service at the intersections. We do recognize that there is congestion. We do recognize that some of the intersections, particularly at the freeway on ramps and off ramps, excuse me, the on ramps, are currently impacted and do need to be improved. Those intersections, those on-ramp intersections are Caltrans signals and does require coordination with the Caltrans in terms of any improvements that are made. And we are constrained by existing physical conditions. The bridge that passes over the freeway is too narrow to add additional lanes. And so we're dealing with a bottleneck that occurs and has occurred and will occur. Ultimately, the solution to the congestion on 17th at the freeway is a much larger infrastructure operational issue that needs to be worked through with Caltrans. One of the things to consider when we talk about commercial projects like this, there is a significant amount of trips that are generated for the commercial projects that are, I'll call them convenient trips. People who are driving home, they stop to get a coffee. They stop to get food on their way home. So these are pass-throughs. They're not destination trips per se, particularly during what we call peak hours. Those are hours when people are coming and going from work and where the congestion is the most significant. So it doesn't generate trips in and of itself because those are pass-through trips during those peak hours. Businesses like Zoe's operate outside of peak hours. People go out to sit down to dine or to have dinner. Those are not during peak hours when people are coming and going from home and work. So I hope that helps answer some of the questions in a nutshell, maybe in crayon, highlighter, colored pencil.

Your crayons are different than my crayons. So it says minus 146 a.m., minus 10 p.m. So I took that understanding that based on the current project versus the proposed project, there was less trips or less traffic count generated by this new project in that scientific model that they use.

Yeah, there is a model, the Octam Orange County Transportation Model, there is a model that all the trips are inputted into, so it captures both existing traffic patterns as well as other projects that have been approved that haven't yet been built. Those are all factored into it. From a technical perspective, responding to the traffic, if you would like to hear from the traffic engineer who prepared the report, we can have them respond to that question specifically.

I'm just trying to clarify that there's less cars on the road with this project versus a fully occupied retail project.

Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, this project has a significant decrease in square footage, and then the commercial and the residential operates at different peak hours. I think that's, as a non-traffic engineer, that's probably the best explanation I can give. If you'd like a technical response, we can have the traffic engineer respond. That's perfect.

I would like to attempt to just let you use my coloring book, because I think I spent most of my time yesterday talking about this when I was being briefed by the city. But I think what was important is they took into consideration everything, right? So the new development, where there was concern about traffic, the maximum use of French Quarter, and what used to be a very busy grocery store, and it is no longer. So for me, that is key, and so is OCTA. That's it. It's been very comprehensive, but we are limited with that bridge.

If there were a project to be proposed, say we said no to this one and we said we wanted that 400 unit, whatever that looks like, and they had more trips than the current use, could we deny the project based on having more trips?

This project as a housing project, which did file SB 330 application, which is a state legislative process, does give it protections. It is protected under the Housing Accountability Act. The ability for the city to deny a housing project on a housing element site is very limited. We would have to identify significant health and safety issues. So probably not.

Questions on Vandenberg. I didn't realize that Little Bump-Out Island was kind of a traffic mitigation measure that was installed to prevent I guess people speeding down Enderly Center Drive and crashing into a wall, and that happened enough where we needed to put a...

Allegedly, that's what it's there for. I was not there. It's been there for a long time. That's our understanding of why it's there, at least staff's understanding. That will not be removed. That will remain. We also did receive a question as to whether or not existing parking would remain. And so, yeah, parking along Vandenberg currently is allowed and would continue to be allowed.

Yes, to that point on parking along Vandenberg, so parking within this proposed project would theoretically be restricted to just, the people that live there would theoretically have to keep two spaces open available in their garage and be restricted to guest parking or whatever based upon some recorded CC&Rs, is that correct?

That's correct. As part of any project where we have a homeowner, multiple homeowners, we require a homeowners association, CC&Rs, which establish a management plan for parking and et cetera.

But practically speaking, people will, if it's public parking, people will probably park publicly on the street. So what I would encourage the folks that, you know, live in the condominium community to the south, no one wants to hear this, but, you know, Tustin does have a robust policy with respect to parking programs. And maybe now is the time to try to implement that where you've got real evidence that those people in this new project shouldn't be parking there. Maybe you can establish a permit program for your current residences. Because I do think what was proposed and built south of Vandenberg is frankly pretty dense and probably under-parked with respect to parking. So again, more regulation, more bureaucracy, but you do have that option available to you. Also on Vandenberg, what's the infrastructure going in there? Is there going to be major disruptions along that street? Do we know?

I don't. I believe all the connections for the housing is on Enderley. I'll let Layla address the specifics into the utilities.

Through the Chair, if I can defer to the civil engineer for the project, for the project infrastructure, and I'll hand it off to Rick Puffer.

This answer, is this mic on? All right, can you guys hear me? Too tall, Rick. So in general terms, it's sewer and water that connect out to Vandenberg. The laterals, the services do connect on Enderly, but they get brought down and do connect Relate to primary points the two driveways that you see so there's a singular connection for the sewer and water on both those two Drive entrances so we get in that is the initial work that gets done at the first part of the development and

Are you contemplating closing down the entirety of Vandenberg?

Just the local location there. And that street exists as a public street. The curb is still in that same location. So we're able to execute that quickly. And again, as the initial part of our development, once the grading is done on site.

Is there any major truck traffic or haul routes or construction traffic? going to be ingressing, regressing off of Vandenberg?

So there will be a trucking program. The city generally will have a trucking route. In this case, it's pretty easy because the freeway is right there. But those activities are limited, concentrated to a specific time period. Again, the After demolition, the grading is about a six week period. And then after that it's infrastructure. Trucking is very much minimized after those two points of the overall construction process.

if I could, through the chair, just to clarify, the applicant will need to submit a construction management type plan where they'll have the storage of materials and things of that nature. Street closures will also be reviewed by city staff. So those things of that nature. And also, just to clarify in terms of utilities, there's no replacement of utilities in the street. So we're talking about lateral connections. We're not talking about upsizing of existing lines.

Okay, so just a perpendicular cut, saw cut into the street just to install.

Correct, it's not major infrastructure improvements, it's just connecting to the existing facilities.

Okay. Those are all my questions for now. I'll reserve some time for some comments later on. Through the chair.

Through the chair. First I wanted to say, I mean, what an amazing project that went into this and all the planning, you can tell. just by the design and just everything that has to go into this, traffic, noise, dead city, loss of shopping, construction, safety, existing business owners, parking, access, construction. I mean, the list goes on and on, and I'm pretty, I'm rather satisfied. I do have just a couple clarifications, and I also wanted to compliment on the looks of it. I think it's a good, a very nice gateway to this, one gateway to the particular entry to Tustin. Just a couple quick questions regarding the noise and the trees that are going to be provided for the car wash. Is that the only noise sort of dissipation that you anticipate?

There's a condition that was added under sound mitigation measure to add a wall at the end of the drive-through tunnel to eliminate any noise from coming off of the drive-through. You're adjacent to a freeway, so there's always gonna be noise, I guess. But it's gonna, there's a condition that's addressing that specific matter.

And then maybe another question. I just want to verify the whole entire residential area will be gated.

No, won't be.

Except for the ingress, egress areas.

Yeah, and the perimeter entryways to the residents that face Vandenberg will not be gated. The gated access will be on the commercial side, separating the commercial. Yes, there will be a gate all the way around just to control pedestrian traffic so we don't have kids running across commercial driveways and such.

And when Vandenberg, the vacation of the Vandenberg, I understand there will be a gate there. Is that just an emergency gate or is that? pedestrian residential access.

Sorry, you probably meant Enderly Center Drive, the vacation of Enderly?

Yeah, Enderly Center, yeah.

Yeah, so there will be a small gate through there, but mostly planted. We're trying to create a really nice sense of arrival to the commercial project when you turn in off of 17th Street onto Enderly Center Drive. It will be planted. There will be signage welcoming you to the project, but it will create a nice delineation between the retail and the commercial project.

Okay. Some other questions. I think the utilities were answered. Utilities for residential and commercial are just gonna go based off existing.

Yeah, the main utility infrastructure that runs through 17th Street, Yorba, Vandenberg, and Emerly Center Drive will be maintained. And further to a comment that Jay made earlier, The fee ownership of the land is with the current Enderly family and will be transferred to us when we close escrow. The easement for utilities will remain. And staff has spent a lot of time with our engineers specifically identifying the location of those utility lines that are going to be maintained and protected in place and tied into. So the easement for utilities will be maintained.

Understood, thank you. This is just kind of a curious question, but I'm sure, I mean, questions are curious in nature, so, but was there ever discussion of pedestrian bridge from one side of the center to the other?

No.

Okay, so no.

Bluntly answered no. Okay. Yeah, no there hasn't been because the vacation of Enderly Center Drive allows us to tie everything together as one. Right now it's a 78 foot wide street that's 1.4 acres of asphalt that the city maintains. You guys don't want it. You don't need it. There's a way to create revenue through property taxes, create a safer environment. We've talked about the crash wall. I know the engineer who designed that wall because of traffic going at 2 or 3 in the morning down Enderly Center Drive through the brick wall and the gentleman who was here earlier. So the bottom line is that Enderly Center Drive, doesn't need a bridge when it's vacated. And connecting over Yorba, there's not enough on the other side of Yorba because it's such a small, thin piece of land to create any sort of pedestrian connectivity.

One question about the proposed drive-through that's supposed to be maybe a coffee house. If there is a run over the queue, which I think is 14 cars, where do the cars, I guess, where do they plan to stack up?

They park. Yeah, they take them off of the street. And usually you see an influx of traffic for coffee shops six, seven, eight in the morning when people are on their commute to work. At that time, the way we're balancing our project with tenancy is that there's not going to be a huge impact to the other tenants in the project creating other traffic problems within the center itself. So we will put that burden on the operator. We own and operate a Starbucks coffee shop where we have this exact covenant in their lease. And when they get to a certain number of cars in the queue, an attendant goes out with a menu board, tells them to move their car over to the side, they take an order remotely, and that's it. And it's been working great.

Okay. One last question. This might be for staff. For once everything is up and running with the increase in the residential presence on Vandenberg, will there be any thoughts of putting a limit in the poundage of vehicles? I'm thinking of deliveries, late night deliveries and such. causing disruption for the residents.

Is this during construction?

No, not during construction, after.

So can I just say one thing, maybe? Sorry, I don't mean to jump in front of Jay here. He's doing such a good job, I should let him go. Because of the separation that we've created between the commercial and the residential, all the commercial traffic comes in off of Yorba, or seventeen streets, so there will be no commercial traffic that was intentionally designed that way to have the residential come in from vandenberg to limit the number of trips to limit delivery trucks and such from going in and on or around the vandenberg residential community.

And then I know this is brought up at the very beginning, but I just wanted to bring it back up one last time. The trees and the other agricultural, those will be fully mature when you install them.

Absolutely. We don't plant anything but mature tree specimens. We want the project to look and feel like it's been there for 30 years when we're done with it. We want people to come in and have shade trees. So we do buy mature specimens, and that's it. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Good questions.

OK, I'm going to combine my questions and comments, and then we can come back. I already asked it, so I'm going to go right into comments. In the spirit of full transparency, I did speak with Burnham Ward several times. They were able to clarify some questions that I had. I also had a very thorough briefing with staff. That is my neighborhood. I mean, I'm far enough away that I can sit here and have an opinion about it. And I've been there for over 20 years. And when I heard some changeover of Enderly was going to take place, I'll tell you, this has been an absolute roller coaster. I mean, Pete can agree, as we've heard all kinds of rumors. And we had community meetings where we were sure that the 400 units were going to be built six stories high. And because of what is happening in Sacramento, we would have virtually no say on what would go there. And I think that the traffic stinks. And so I have grilled our traffic engineer, and I I get it. There's some realities of where we are, and there's some optimizations that we can consider. But we are really looking at this as if we were fully booked, optimized, and we have a thriving area. I will also tell you I feel, I can say that I feel that the 17th Street corridor has been overlooked. We don't have any parks. We don't have any meeting areas. It's such a great community of families, right, in that area. So that is a long-winded way of me saying thank God for Burnham Ward, and thank God that Zoe's didn't pick up and, and leave because that has been such a destination. And I'm glad the bistro is going to be next door so I don't have to figure out if my mom went to the restaurant or the bistro because she never does the same thing. And so this idea that we're coming in, this is such a thoughtful, thoughtful plan. And that you have been as tenacious as you have to stick with it, I think we are very blessed. I also think that... no coincidence that we started off this meeting with a church and community and connection and we are a very lucky community we have people who care we have you know I everybody I talked to on t-ball or every team it's people who grew up here who want to live here and this is going to give people an opportunity to do that it is different there are going to be some trade-offs And again, I'm so passionate about this. There was one thing I brought up that I was a little bit obsessed on, and that is my underground utilities, right? And that instead, an in lieu fee is being paid. I realize that our city councilman is sitting right here. So I am making a pitch that that in lieu fee gets actually earmarked for the area and that it doesn't get thrown into a big pot because we do not have a specific plan for 17th Street. though we likely will when this is built and is thriving and that also maybe Pinewood Plaza will take a note and French Quarter will call you and want to put a pedestrian bridge over 17th Street. Who knows? A girl can dream. So let's see. That is the vacation of Enderly Center Drive is that trade-off. You know, I've kind of queried everybody in my community. We use that to either go into ZOEFs, come around. We don't even use it to try to cheat the lights. We use Prospect for that. The one comment I want to make is I definitely want to add the hours of operation onto how do we add this to whatever, I guess it's the CUP, that we revisit that. And one question last, I guess, for staff. We had a change. We have Exhibit A as the, for TTM 19470. And then, so I guess one was the conditions of approval and the other one was CUP. I just want to know why the change. This was sitting on here when we started. We got started pretty quick. the why behind it.

Chair Mason, the change of the exhibit A for the condition of approval for the designer view and the tentative map, three of the conditions from that were, sorry, I'll start over again. The conditions for the CUP for the car wash had three conditions regarding noise, from the car wash and, sorry, I'm gonna hand it over to Jay.

Let me clarify. There were three conditions in the car wash conditional use permit resolution that really belonged in the other resolution. It was, they are related to some degree as it relates to the residential and the car wash noise. So we just moved it from one resolution to another. The condition still is the same.

Okay, still applies, everything else. It was just literally a context thing?

We cataloged it wrong in the wrong resolution in our process of putting together the conditions.

All right, got it. And my last comment is if Karen Robb is still here, she should reach out to Valentin Flores. I don't know if she's still here. So I just met with him out of economic development. But that is a wonderful... destination, I hope it doesn't go away from Tustin. Okay, I'll pull it back for comments and let's start with you, Commissioner Gullo.

I see a hot mic before I go.

Thank you. Chair, I was just going to let you know that we are in touch with her already.

Okay, good. Wow, still a lot. I already gave my comments that I think this is a really special proposal for Tustin and I'm just so happy we don't get cookie cutter that our community is attracting something special with that But I am going to say I'm really proud of myself for holding out two hours and 46 minutes for this. But a comment. The developers talked about making this pedestrian friendly. I think as we work to make communities that we want, not in the communities we have, to really think about the bike racks and placements that go in there, especially as the nearest park is about two miles away and we want to encourage a little more walking. I know there are some scattered throughout the commercial. I didn't see any in the residential areas. I will personally volunteer if you want an unsolicited bike rack consultant on that part, and that. Something else to note, maybe more for staff, I think there was a comment about the construction. I know that that plan will be made, and there's no way around that it's gonna be uncomfortable for some period of time for those going through there and living there. Yorba right now is pretty cut up. I don't know if it's related, You know, consider the community, obviously, in creating that plan. I think that's important. Echoing some of what was said about creating a park plan on 17th or a 17th corridor, I think that's a special street that warrants, you know, some thought of cohesive as we put different developments together. And as we approve this, I would say not only should we think about the car wash hours as part of the conditional approval, do we want to consider, or is it normal in our city, maybe for staff to answer that drive-throughs have similar restrictions to not be 24 hours or... How do we handle that in other places today?

So we do apply conditions of approval for car wash, excuse me, for drive-through restaurants, particularly when they're adjacent to residential, immediately adjacent. In this particular case, we don't have an immediate adjacency. We have a buffer of all the other commercial that's there. We don't anticipate that there's a particular concern, so we have not included conditions of approval related to hours of operations for the drive-through restaurants. As it relates to the car wash, looking back at the car wash that was approved on Edinger, their proposal based on their operations was 7 a.m. to 9 p.m., and those are the conditions that were established based on working with them and their hours. And so those were specific to Quick Quack, which is.

I remember Quick Quack.

Yeah, the tenant, the operator down there. So as a reference.

If I could real quick. So I just did a quick synopsis. Speedy Express Car Wash, Go Green Car Wash on Red Hill, and Fast Five Car Wash at the Tustin Marketplace all have hours from 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. So I would like to add, if everyone is up for it, a condition of approval to limit the hours of operation for that from 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. And now I don't know how to do that clerically. So, Michael, if you could help.

Yes, thank you. If that's the intention, that would be included in any motion that's made with respect to the remainder of the proposal this evening.

Thank you.

Commissioner Gucci, any comments?

Yeah, I live in the city of Tustin because You know, we're not Irvine. We have, in this context, we have, this city allows room for mom and pop stores and retail establishments with a long history. And it's frankly really sad to see a Chambers Gallery leave like we've lost other retail and restaurants throughout Tustin. But at least, you know, I'm hopeful that we're preserving this new development plan of Zoves versus opening up a Chili's or something like that. I'm also happy to not live in Santa Ana because frankly I would imagine this type of investment wouldn't be made in that city and we would have maybe even less optionality and less investment in a property like this if I were living in that city. So I am supportive. I will primarily say in addition to approving this development, this does satisfy I think for at least my lifetime The question of the number of units that could go here, because we did hear that this was included in the housing element as a 400 unit site. I will say that being familiar with state housing law, it could be up to an 820 unit site, if not more, or 840 unit site with no parking requirements and also no height restrictions. So there's no perfect project, but this one's pretty good in lieu of what could be plotted here or developed here. And I'd point you to across freeway and 1st and 4th Street on those projects and the impact those projects are having on that community, as well as some overflow into Tustin. And the price we have to pay for this type of project is vacation of Enderly Center, I guess I'm fine with that. It also, frankly, seems to solve an issue with, a very odd issue of cars running into that wall south of Vandenberg. In addition, there's an issue going around in the state of California, I think, where a lot of municipalities are not able, their budgets are constrained right now, and Tustin, fortunately, isn't that city, and Tustin's not that city, one, because we have the base, two, we have good leadership, thank you, Councilman Fink, for showing up here, and three, we allow room to grow, which includes retail tax dollars, but also there was an EPS study, I think, there was a study we had done a couple months ago regarding contribution of of property taxes and economic impact for different land uses. And I think it was pretty clear that forest sale housing had a high positive impact relative to industrial office. Retail is probably higher. I don't know that it's studied that, but also multi-family housing, especially affordable multi-family housing, which has no property tax, has a property tax exemption. So again, I think it's a great looking project. I think it's a bummer that it negatively impacts people that have been in Tustin for a long time, but this does resolve the issue of not having a 400 unit complex here at least for the next 30, 40 years. I will encourage the developer, I heard public art, we've got a public arts commission, looping them in would be cool. I know Commissioner Gulo served on that, I believe, right? Yep. And then I echo the concern about the car wash. I think a car wash belongs here, but we sure have approved a lot of car washes. But I defer to, again, our esteemed council on what they want to do with that issue. But again, I think it's a great project. Last closing thought. Burnham Ward, we are lucky to have in Burnham Ward. I know they're a Newport-based developer. They do some great stuff. They're doing the redevelopment of Dana Point Harbor. They did SoCo. They have some quality projects. And I will say, from my experience in development, they've hired a great team of architects and landscape architects. Your landscape architects, Lifescapes, they are not skimping on the landscaping for this project. So I'm hoping, yeah, you're delivering what we're seeing on the renderings, but I will echo, I think we are lucky to have Burnham Ward as the developer or the builder of this project. Thank you.

Chair Pro Tem Kozak.

Thank you to the chair. I don't have much to add to what fellow commissioners and what I've already said other than this a well thought out project and unfortunately there are some casualties in every development but I think that this will I'm in support of the project and I think that this will be a great use of that great historical property for Tustin and pay homage to it. And thank you for the, and I also appreciate the thorough presentations and investigation and comment and discussion that we've all had here today. So thank you.

All right, so, I, I'm just trying to figure out the number of the item on here, so as we go through and make motions, and it looks like for the drive, no, those are the drive-through.

Yeah, so if you're looking at adding an additional condition, it would be to resolution 4548, and you would be adding a condition of approval to limit the operating hours from, as I understand it, seven to eight. 7 a.m. to 8 p.m.

I'm going to pull it back for discussion. Do we want to dictate that or do we want to make...

I would not be supportive of that. 7 a.m. to 8 p.m.?

Do the chair make it consistent with other properties? I would, and I would also just like to propose that we do what we do for drive-thru restaurants. I think one of the longest meetings I ever had was a taco drive-thru up on Red Hill. So I just would, I guess I'd like to... look to you, Alexa, on how to make this business friendly without it being a dictatorship, but also being able to have a conversation about what the hours are.

And was that for just the car wash, or was that for?

We already get to vote on CUPs for drive-throughs. That is part of what we do. But it seems that I think this was before car washes were taken over by private equity and became a street corner. But I just want to figure, like, how do we do this without dictating it? You know what I'm saying?

Thank you, Chair. By placing hourly restrictions, you are making decisions that could impact business operations. We heard from the developer earlier that this is not intended to be a 24-hour site and it's relatively reasonable to believe that you're not gonna go wash your car in the middle of the night when you are gonna have a hard time seeing. But if the commission would like to entertain a limitation of hours, that's certainly available to you to converse about. I would recommend looking at other services as an appropriate reference or considering what operational hours the rest of the center might be entertaining.

Okay, I think, was it Commissioner Higuchi, we look at other properties? Is that what you were proposing?

I didn't propose that. I said I would not be supportive of restricting from seven to eight. Can we just defer it to zoning administration? That's a public hearing for director approval.

Now is the opportunity to condition the project. So additional conditions wouldn't be referred to a zoning administrator typically.

Our city attorney looks like he has something important to say.

I just thought there may be one thing appropriate to add to the conversation is that we do have an existing condition of approval 2.6. they would authorize the city to revisit the issue of hours of operation if it's determined at some future point that the use is causing noise issues so although it does not specify particular hours of operation there is uh you know a potential way for the city to address any concerns that may occur in the future with that use and i would also add that the

The test and city code related to noise in general would, of course, still apply.

I'm going to say something. I don't know if it's politically incorrect, but I don't think it's a noise thing. That is butting right up to the 55. The issue I have is if you ever go to the 5 in Newport after 9 p.m., there's a 24-hour car wash. And I will tell you what, nothing good ever happens at that car wash after 9 p.m. So that's just more of a commentary.

That's a self-service car wash.

Correct. But it is way self-service. It's like you got a gun and you put quarters in the machine. So I don't think there are cameras or anything.

I would suggest that condition has enough flexibility for us to revisit the matter with the applicant. The applicant's on the record for saying it's not going to be a 24-hour car wash or drive-through. So we can...

to the chair, but they don't have to come back when that tenant is decided. So this would be our moment if we wish to have any restrictions to place them there. And I would be in favor of ones that don't necessarily align with business hours of others operating with a little looser, but I do think it's important for feedback that perhaps we limit that.

Personally, I fully trust Burnham Ward, but I don't know who is gonna get the keys to the car wash once it's developed.

Through the chair, we could, instead of, maybe fixing exact times we say we entertain the idea of times similar to similar facilities within Tustin?

I would buy that. I go to Mr. Car Wash right now on 17th down the street, opens up at 8 a.m., closes at 9 p.m. So I think if we could look at like-minded businesses and align to that, That doesn't sound satisfactory.

Do you? Yeah. I mean, would that be to propose the time or just to say whatever is industry norm?

So again, where I'm coming from, public safety. It's community safety. We have a lot of people coming over the bridge late at night, finding a nice place to take a nap. This is, you just wanna make sure that it is not a destination overnight.

Through the Chair, it sounds like the Commission in the past has approved seven to nine as hours, as some precedent.

I think that would be extremely restrictive and unfair to folks that are working early in the morning, that wanna get their car washed.

But it's only 20 feet from the closest condo development once the residential process is developed.

Well, it's more than 20 feet. I don't see how that's relevant. And also, you know, it's just, I'm not comfortable with this, with us five that don't operate car washes to dictate car wash operating hours.

So, here's my proposal, is if we can make it as vague as possible, but put on here, add a line in here that talks about ensuring, so it says that it is that it would be limited to a period of time, I don't know, with the burden. I don't know. I'm looking for help here. But I just want to make sure that it's a condition without us dictating what that condition is. We are right off the 55. There are not a lot of car washes right off the 55. It's going to generate a lot of traffic. And you're right. I just don't want to be the one that tells a business how to operate. I just don't want it open overnight because that is my neighborhood. No, I agree.

I don't want it to be the only 24-hour car wash in the area either.

If I could, through the Chair. I don't want to dictate for you, but trying to bring things together for some conclusion.

Thank you.

I hear business operations not trying to dictate. We can establish a condition that the car wash applicant shall submit to the Director of Community Development car wash operating hours for final review and approval. That puts the onus on the operation with the car wash operator, and we would take into consideration how that affects other operations. So it puts it on staff to review and approve it and holds them accountable to make sure that they do operate to those hours they say that they would do.

I am happy with that, my fellow commissioners. Yeah. Anyone? Okay. That works. Will you repeat it, does it become an addition to the motion?

Yes, so as it relates to resolution 4548, the Planning Commission would add an additional condition that the operator of the car wash would submit to the Director of Community Development, hours of operation for final review and approval.

Okay, is there any reason why I can't take a motion on that right now after it's been stated or do I have to go in order? Like number one first.

so you don't have to repeat yourself you could restate that by for example moving to approve staff's recommendation with the added condition of approval uh that was just stated by jay okay and then i would also uh remind the commission that you did have revisions to the conditions of approval and exhibit a of resolution four five four eight in Exhibit A of Resolution 4547 that we would want to include as part of any motion to move staff's recommendation.

Okay, and if we move, well, I'm gonna make a motion to approve Resolution 4547.

Eight.

Okay. Four, five, four, eight. Four, five, four, seven with eight. So here's what I'm saying. I want to go in order because first we're gonna approve the whole thing and then we're gonna, and what I want to say is my motion for this is if there are any changes that that is what I'm proposing that, or I'm moving that we approve. Okay, so that is my motion for number one to adopt resolution number four, five, four, seven approving the following DR 2026-001 for site layout and building design, and then the sub 2026-0001 TTM number 19470 to subdivide the Enderleast Shopping Center into 10 lots, with one lot for residential condominium purposes, allowing 100 condominium townhomes and nine commercial lots. Now, Michael.

As amended though, correct?

As amended. As amended. But here's my question. Do I need to read it? Can I now start going through for the approval since we've already had our public comments, right? So rather than go through this twice, usually I would read the whole thing and then we go one by one. Is it all right if I just go one by one currently?

You can absolutely go one by one if you prefer or.

I would, I prefer that. Vera, are there any public comments online or anyone else here?

There are no hands raised in Zoom and I have not received any e-comments. Okay, great.

So what I just read in number one,

Yeah, I was just gonna clarify that the public hearing has been closed so you don't need to solicit any sort of public input or comment as you move through the commission's consideration of motions.

Great, thank you. Okay, so what I just said, adopting resolution 4547 and approving the following, 2026-001 and sub 2026-001 TTM number 19470. Is that amended? As amended. Thank you. That's my motion. Do I have a second? Second. Thank you. Vera, you want to take a roll call vote?

Commissioner Higuchi?

Aye.

Commissioner Gallo? Aye. Commissioner Douthit?

Aye.

Chair Pro Tem Kozak?

Aye.

And Chair Mason? Aye. Motion passes 5-0. Thank you.

Okay. Number two, adopt resolution number 4548, approving CUP 2026-0007 for one new drive-through car wash, automated self-serve as amended, as proposed. What's the right word?

I think in this case you'd want to say as amended to reflect the changes to the Exhibit A conditions of approval and with the addition of Jay's proposed condition of approval concerning the director's review and approval of the hours of operation.

what he said, can we do that? Okay, thank you. All right, so I'm willing to entertain a motion.

Motion to approve resolution 4548 as amended. Okay.

Yes, what Michael said after.

Okay, I'll motion to approve resolution 4548 as amended.

Okay, second. All right, Vera, you want to take a roll call vote?

Commissioner Higuchi?

Aye.

Commissioner Gallo?

Aye.

Commissioner Douthit?

Aye.

Chair Pro Tem Kozak?

Aye.

And Chair Mason? Aye. Motion passes 5-0.

Okay, and so number three, adopt resolution number 4549, approving CUP 2026-0004 for a new drive-through restaurant at 17280 17th Street. Do I have a motion to approve? A motion to approve. Second. All right. Vera.

Commissioner Higuchi?

Aye.

Commissioner Gullo? Aye. Commissioner Douthit?

Aye.

Chair Pro Tem Kozak?

Aye.

And Chair Mason? Aye. Motion passes 5-0.

Okay. I need a motion to adopt resolution number 4550, approving CUP 2026-0005. for a new drive-through restaurant at 17480 17th Street. Do I have a motion?

Motion to approve.

Second.

Vera? Commissioner Higuchi.

Aye.

Commissioner Gallo. Aye. Commissioner Douthit.

Aye.

Chair Pro Tem Kozak. Aye. And Chair Mason. Aye. Motion passes 5-0.

All right, we're going to adopt resolution number 4551, approving CUP 2026-0006 for a new master sign plan for the commercial development.

Motion to approve.

Second.

Vera. Commissioner Higuchi?

Aye.

Commissioner Gallo? Aye. Commissioner Douthit?

Aye.

Chair Pro Tem Kozak?

Aye.

And Chair Mason? Aye. Motion passes 5-0.

All right, now we're at adopting resolution number 4552, approving GPC 2026-0001, finding the proposed street vacation of Enderly Center Drive conforms with the city's general plan. Do I have a motion? I'll move. Do I have a second?

Second. Okay, Vera. Commissioner Higuchi?

Aye.

Commissioner Gallo? Aye. Commissioner Delpit?

Aye.

Chair Pro Tem Kozak?

Aye.

And Chair Mason? Aye. Motion passes 5-0.

I believe we did it. Congratulations. Thank you for your patience. Thanks, everybody, for being here and speaking and supporting Teston. All right.

Show still goes.

Yeah, we're still in session. So if you could just either sneak out quietly or have a seat, we'll get this over pretty quick. But all right, our last item on the agenda. You guys can shake hands out in the hallway. Thank you. Thanks for coming. Last item on the agenda is regular business, which we have no items. However, we do have other business. Alexis Middle, our community development director. Any comments?

Thank you, Chair. I have no comments this evening.

All right. Let's bring that back to Planning Commission. Let's go to Higuchi.

No comments.

Chair Pro Tem.

No comments.

Below. Short comment. If anyone watching, tomorrow's the last concert in the park. Hope to see you all there. Then begins TACFA's Broadway in the Park. Hope to see you all there as well. Commissioner?

No comments.

All right. Me either.

Good night.

Thank you, guys. Oh, the next meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, August 11, 2026. Good night. Really? Yeah.

Recording stopped.