City Council - Regular Meeting

Are we all ready?

Ready? Yes.

Good evening, everyone. I would like to call to order the special closed session meeting of the City Council. It's 5.01 p.m., meeting number 3106. Madam City Clerk, roll call, please.

The record will affect that all members are in attendance this evening.

Thank you. Next, we have public input. At this time, any member of the public may address the council on matters which are on the closed session agenda. If any members of the public who are participating through Zoom wish to address the council, please raise your hand. And if you're calling in, please press star nine to raise your hand. Madam City Clerk, any requests to speak?

No, Mr. Mayor.

Okay, seeing none in the room, we'll move on to the closed session update. Mr. City Attorney.

The council will be convening in closed session to discuss agenda item one, to discuss a demand for payment from ATI Restoration LLC related to services ATI performed under contract with the city while the city was serving as the response action contractor for the United States Navy. In addition, the council will be convening with its real property negotiators, Aldo Schindler, Nicole Bernard, Brian Moncrief, and Ryan Swantec, as referenced in closed session agenda item five.

Okay, thank you. We will now recess to closed session. Wow. We will now recess to closed session. I haven't banged the gavel yet. You guys can talk. We're figuring something out up here if you want. I'll let you know. Good evening, everyone. I'd like to call to order meeting number 3106, the regular meeting of the City Council and the Tustin Housing Authority. Thank you for your patience. Tonight's presentation of colors, invocation, and Pledge of Allegiance is by our American Legion. Gentlemen.

Color Guard, let's hitch hoot! Bugler, hoot!

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 We'll now have the opening benediction.

Those of you that can't stand, it's too much of a stress, you can sit down. But those of us who can, remove your caps, please. We read in Proverbs 3, verse 5 and 6, it says, Trust in the Lord with all your heart. Lean not into your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct your path. Most times we come before you this evening, we come before you tonight asking for your Holy Spirit's guidance, wisdom, and inspiration. As we begin this meeting, help us to engage in meaningful discussion. Allow our city council members to grow closer as a group and nurture the bonds of community. Fill each one with the spirit of knowledge, understanding, truth, and wisdom. Bless each council member with the spirit of love, compassion, and grace as our city council members make important decisions that affect the lives of our Tustin community. Finally, we ask that you continue to remind us that all that we do here tonight, all that we accomplish, is for the pursuit of truth, for the greater glory of you, Lord, and for the service of our country and humanity. We ask all these things in your name, Most High, and all the Lord's people said, amen.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

I was once part of the American flag. I flew over America, the land of the free, because of the brave. I can no longer fly the sun, and wind have caused me to be tattered and torn. Please carry me as a reminder that you are not forgotten. Thank you. So I'd like to ask all the members tonight who had relatives that served in the military, regardless of what branch, World War I, World War II, and the last couple of engagements we've been in as a country, if you'd come forward, I have something to share with you. Those who have relatives, past, present, future, and who served and also currently serve in the military. Stand to the side, please. Make room for the others.

And while they're doing this, if you care to sit down, that's fine, too.

Have a seat if you want to, please. Have a seat.

We have quite a few tonight that have relatives served in our military, which we're proud of.

Has that come to you?

As I come to each one, please tell us about who you are and what relative served in the military, doing what engagement. Thank you. My name is Patricia Moulton. My father was David Moulton, and he was in the Army during World War II.

My name is Chris Bates.

My father-in-law was Alan Temple. He served in the Marines.

Thank you. Yes.

My name is Janine Hernandez. My son recently retired after 21 1⁄2 years in 7th Group Special Forces. He's a Silver Star Purple Heart recipient, and my son-in-law is also retired from the Navy. Thank you.

Thank you. Grandfather Leroy Puffer served in the Korean conflict. Cousin served in the Iraq 90s war.

Steve Thorpe, bill guard, served in Vietnam.

My name is Anthony Pagoni.

My grandpa is Rocco Pagoni, and he served in the Vietnam War.

My nephew worked He's in the Air Force. Currently in the Air Force?

Right now. OK, great.

Thank you.

Sorry, some gifts I brought back from Vietnam. It's called Parkinson's. handshakes. We got it.

Still gotta get that disease under control. Yes, your name? Robert Hernandez. My dad Ray served as a medic in the Korean conflict. Yes.

My name is Susan. My father Douglas served in the Korean War in the Army.

Yes. My name is Penny. My grandfather served as I'm not sure which word. Which branch? Which branch of service? Right. I should know that.

Well, if it comes to mind, talk to us about it later. OK. Next.

My name is. I'm sorry. It was the Spanish-American War. Spanish-American. Oh, it goes way back. Oh, wow.

My name is Mariana Bravo. My nephew. Oh, my God. I'm getting like her. My nephew, Crudwig. is in the Marines right now, serving at Camp Pendleton.

Thank you.

Manny Arzotti, the Marine Corps. I served in all Japan and Korea.

OK, anybody else? Thank you for your service. And what was your name again? Steve. Steve? Thank you, Steve. You're very welcome. Make sure those are in there. OK, thank you.

I'd like to thank all of you for your service. I know you're all proud to have relatives who served our country proudly. And we will continue that same process today as we continue to be the home of the free land of the brave as we serve our community. Again, I want to thank all of you coming down and participating in this wonderful ceremony where we hear from our city council members all the things that we plan in the future and make things happen for us as a community. Again, thank you and God bless.

Okay, thank you to our American Legion, and thank you for those of you that participated in that ceremony. It's important that we remember either our own service or those of our loved ones who served both stateside and overseas. We've got a son of an Air Force general, a son of a Marine Corps fighter. And we've also got relatives up here, too. But it's important that we recognize why we're free still today. So with that, I'm going to move on to the presentations. We have one presentation tonight, which is the Orange County Hunger Alliance Hunger Action Month. And I've asked Councilmember Fink to present the proclamation.

Thank you, Mayor. And here's the proclamation. Whereas hunger and poverty are issues of vital concern in California, where approximately 22% of California households and 27% of households with children experience food insecurity. And whereas everyone needs nutritious food to thrive and people are working hard to provide for themselves and their families, yet over 387,000 individuals, including over 112,000 children in Orange County, are food insecure. And whereas The Orange County Hunger Alliance is committed to taking steps to combat hunger in the Tustin community and provide additional resources to those in need. And whereas in 2025, the Orange County Food Bank and Second Harvest Food Bank collectively recorded an average of 800,000 individual distribution visits per month from community members facing food insecurity and distributed over 72 million pounds of food. And whereas local organizations such as Abound Food Care, 211, and Meals on Wheels help facilitate food access to community members who need it. And whereas the month of September has been designated Hunger Action Month. bring attention to food insecurity in communities and to enlist the public in the movement to end hunger by taking action, by volunteering, donating, and advocating to ensure every community has the food they need to thrive. And whereas food banks and other organizations across the country will host events throughout the month of September to bring awareness and help end food insecurity in our communities. Now, therefore, the City Council of the City of Tustin, California does hereby recognize September 26 as Hunger Action Month.

Thank you, Council Member Fink. And I believe we have Malia Carey, the Director of Government Affairs and Community Relations for Second Harvest Food Bank here, and I invite you to say some words.

Yes, thank you. Sorry, that's loud. Thank you so much. My name is Malia Carey. I work at Second Harvest Food Bank. We are one of two food banks here in the county. Both food banks serve the entire county, all 34 cities, including the city of Tustin. We have about 15 distribution locations here in the city. But as I said, we serve the entire county as well. Thank you, Mayor Lombard. Thank you, Council and the city of Tustin for recognizing September as Hunger Action Month. We're honored to say that all 34 cities in the county have declared September as Hunger Action Month, bringing awareness to the fact that a lot of folks here in Orange County still are experiencing food insecurity. One in six kids, as Councilmember Fink mentioned, that's 112,000 children here in Orange County. So thank you for the support, helping bring awareness to this issue that we still have a lot of work to do as a community. But we're so grateful we have wonderful volunteers and folks that support the food banks as well as the other organizations in the OC Hunger Alliance. So you can visit Second Harvest's website. It's feedoc.org slash ham for Hunger Action Month. We have a community calendar. We have a lot of events. Come volunteer with us. Help spread awareness and spread what you've learned tonight about these statistics that food insecurity, unfortunately, is still happening in our county. But thank you so much. We appreciate the support.

Thank you for all the work you're doing, and we have a proclamation we're going to present to you.

Come here. Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Where do you want? In the middle.

OK, ready? One, two, three.

One, two, three. Perfect.

Thank you so much.

Thank you. Appreciate the support. Thank you. Take care. Thank you so much.

Okay, next we have public input. At this time, any member of the public may address the council on matters which are not on this evening's agenda, provided the matter is within the subject matter jurisdiction of the City Council. If any members of the public who are participating through Zoom wish to address the council, please raise your hand. And if you're calling in, please press star nine to raise your hand. Madam City Clerk, I'm gonna ask you to manage the list here, please.

Yes, Mr. Mayor, we currently have three requests to speak for public input. We do have additional requests to speak for item number 11, but for public input, we have Leslie H., and we'll take them in this order, Pam Connell, and Jared Walsh.

And if you're requesting to speak on item 11, we will have an opportunity for you to speak then as well.

Excuse me, I'm still recovering.

Hi, City Council. Hello, Mayor. My name is Leslie, and I'm a resident of Tustin. And I'm here to continue my opposition of the flock system software being used. So today, we're going to talk about a citizen named Bob Sklar. Bob Sklar lives in North Manchester, Indiana. He does what many are in our current climate, exercising his rights to speak to city councils because he was worried about the surveillance and data retention happening with Fox ALPR. The more he dug, the city council reissued public input limits because of him. The police department flagged and put an alert on his car and began to follow him. Mr. Sklar requested a public record report on his license plate because he wanted to know if he was being followed, especially by police officer Griffin Miller, who always happened to be where Bob Schuyler was when he was going out. Mr. Sklar's license plate was attached to as many as 98,000 ALPR cameras, and so he wanted to know why. The corresponding police department refused to tell him the reasons why or for how long they had done it, citing that they could not give away the name of the police officer who tagged him due to the officer's safety. Because yes, of course, this police officer was facing danger following this victim. Bob Sklar is a white presenting tall man, and for him to say that he doesn't feel safe driving in his usual road because now he has to avoid the cameras, because you will always find that one police officer following him should be enough to tell you what this technology is really for. Did he raise a concern to the police department itself? He did, and again was told that there was nothing they could do to remedy or address the abuse because all flock data is exempt from disclosure under Indiana's investigator records extension. You could make the argument that this isn't your police department, but they carried the same mission of public safety for approving and investing in this technology like your department did. The ex-police chief and the ex-police captain signed this, and this is the reality that they signed us up for. Despite all the good work they may have done, the city council is left to address the serious overreach and possible right violations that can and will transpire to the people and my neighbors of Tustin. Bob Schleyer didn't commit any crime, nor is he under any investigation. He sought the truth and acknowledged his liberty, but that didn't matter because the cameras caught him and people didn't like him asking questions and digging for answers when he was given none. Now removing this technology is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Your answer shouldn't be weighing what crimes have been solved to justify this piece. There are no neutral sides when you invest in the oppressor. This is the responsibility to carry being a citizen here to acknowledge the damage this brings to us and is yours for sitting in your elected position in the council. Thank you.

Thank you for your comments. Next speaker, please.

Good evening. My name is Pam Connell, and I'm here representing Heritage Place. These are apartments for low income, and right now they are not being treated as low income. They're treated as regular apartments. The amount that they're charging on rent increase are far too much, and most everybody, everybody including every one of these people that came with me today, have had increases over 100 or more. It's low income. That's what we expected, the rent increases to be low also. We are on limited income. We are on Social Security. We are on anything that you can think of but $100 or more, $200 rent increase is way too much. Now, I submitted a form and everything with everybody's name on it. And you may take a look at it. But we would entirely welcome you to look at it and see that these people are from every nationality. that we have, Vietnamese, Korean, Japanese, all of them are on low income. And when you get these $100 increases every single month, every year, that means less groceries, less transportation, less help from everybody. We try to help each other as much as we can, but it's very, very difficult. I try. When I go and get food, I try to spread it out. And many of us all do that. We put it in the clubhouse for other people to take for what their needs are. We cannot constantly have these increases. It's been three years in a row. We ask that you please. Do not have us take this increase this year. And for the coming years, if you could please lower that increase to about 3% instead of 8% and 10%. It's just too much the way the economy is right now, way too much. And as I said, Social Security hasn't gained anything. We haven't gotten a big raise. We're not going to get a big raise. And when we get a little raise, it goes towards our health insurance, those of us that have health insurance. Not everybody has it. So I'm begging you and almost demanding that you look at this as a Tustin family unified area for us to not have to pay this. We are just desperate at this small community. But we're holding together as much as we can and helping each other. I hope this helps.

Thank you. Thank you for your comments. The city clerk indicated that she has a copy of the document that you submitted. And we'll ask for copies up here. But we can't actually comment on things that are not agendized. But thank you for your comments. Madam City Clerk, next speaker, please.

Our next speaker is Jared Walsh.

Hi there. My name is Jared Walsh. I live in the city of Tustin and I've lived here for about 10 years. The reason why I'm here is that my neighborhood has just been moved into a restricted parking district and I applied for permits to park in front of my house and those permits were denied. There's several things that I've learned through applying for this permit process. Thing number one is that the city website does not accurately describe the process of applying for a permit, nor does it describe all of the data that's required to get your permit approved. The permitting process is administered by a third party. That third party does not have a challenge process, nor do they have a phone number to call. If you have an issue with your permit being denied, Your only option is to send them an electronic message that is time-boxed by the number of characters you can put into it, and they only respond in writing. They require a lot of data to get a parking permit. You have to upload a copy of your driver license, of your car registration, eight different data elements about your car, and a utility bill. I live in the city of Tustin, so I use Tustin Water, so it's especially confusing why you would need a utility bill to give me a parking permit. The fourth thing I've learned is that nobody in City Hall or in PD actually understands how this process works. And if you try to challenge the process, you get passed around a bunch of different people and nobody is responsive. They offer that they don't know how the program works, but they also offer that they're not the one that would work it anyway and send you to somebody different. I've been working for about 30 days now to get my permits approved, but as I'm sitting here right now, I still don't have the right to park in front of my house overnight. I'm asking the council to consider three things. Thing number one, I would very much like for my permits to be approved. I uploaded all of the data that the third party vendor required My permits were denied on a technicality because my utility bill that I uploaded was in my wife's name. The address is the same. I added her as a secondary person to the account and my permits were still denied. I actually got one of them approved through the help of the PD and subsequently that approval was removed. So I had one permit and now I have zero. So I'm not Once again, able to park in front of my own home overnight. So I would like for my permits to be approved. I did follow the rules. I did upload all of the data that was required, and my permits were denied on a technicality that does not make any sense to me. In order for me to get a permit, I would either need to have my wife reapply and do all the work I've already done because the utility bill happens to be in her name, or I would need to change the owner of the utility bill in order to get my permits approved. It just seems burdensome and it seems like too much effort and work and a very high bar for just getting the right to park in front of your house. I can get on an airplane with my driver license, but the third party vendor that administers this parking permit process does not recognize that as a way to identify that I live at that residence. So the fact that my driver license, my car registration, and my utility bill all have the same address on them, I'm not hiding, it's not hard to find me, I still can't get a permit. The second thing I'd like the council to...

Your three minutes are up. We understand, though, and we're going to ask the staff to look into it for you. So thank you. Any other comments?

Next speaker, please.

Mr. Mayor, we have one speaker on Zoom. Kundan.

Hello. Can you hear me?

Yeah, go ahead.

Yes. Okay. I'm Kundan. I'm here to continue advocating for public safety at the Disc Golf Place and Frontier Park and Tustin. And I want to remind you that it is disc golf and not just frisbee. It's a lot harder and when it hits people, it hurts more. And I have been hit, other people have been hit, a pregnant woman has been hit. And this golf place that covers the entire park, there's not a dedicated space so it cannot even be fenced off. And it's been five weeks. I've been coming here every week, just the full time. A solution has not been implemented. At the very least, there should be a sign saying, you know, don't play at night. Even a few days ago, I saw somebody playing at night. And there should be at least a sign. And I'm also here to protest one of the solutions that Parks and Recreations have proposed to me, which is basically to victim blame the people getting hit and just say, don't get hit. That's basically what that is. And it seems to me that's more about protecting your liabilities and preventing a lawsuit rather than caring about public safety. And the reason why I'm saying this is also because I now have additional evidence that shows that we're dealing with people when it comes to the players who don't care about public safety. I have screenshots. When I posted on Nextdoor and Facebook, asking for incident reports and inquiry. I received a lot of gaslighting and sarcasm and victim blaming from their Discord players. And I have presented one of the screenshots to Councilman Lee Fink. And if Parks and Recreation is interested, I'll email you the screenshots. I don't have time to read it over here. But yeah, that's pretty much what I wanted to say. Thank you.

Thank you for your comments. Madam City Clerk, any other requests to speak?

No, Mr. Mayor.

Anybody in the room? Okay. For the record, I do want to note that we received an email from Michael Mavrovanitis regarding the Orange County Animal Care Facility. Next, we will move on to the closed session report. Mr. City Attorney.

There was no report of elections this evening.

Thank you. Now we'll go on to the consent calendar. We have items 1 through 10. All matters listed under the consent calendar are considered to be routine and will be enacted by one motion without discussion. Before I move on to public input, if you are here for a speaker during public comment and you want to leave right now, go ahead. We'll wait for a couple minutes. You're not interrupting our business. All right, while they move out, public input for the consent calendar. If any members of the public wish to address the council, please submit a request to speak form if you have not already. If any members of the public who are participating through Zoom wish to address the council on items one through 10, please raise your hand. And I have a request to pull items five, seven, and eight from Council Member Fink. Do I have any other requests to pull items? Okay, we will take public input on the balance of the items. Madam City Clerk, any request to speak?

Yes, we have one request to speak on Zoom, the Kennedy Commission.

OK. Do we have an item number? Six?

Representative for Kennedy Commission, I think your mic is muted. And you have permission to speak if you would like to go ahead.

OK. Well, not available. All right, well, let me know if they come back in the next five seconds. Any other requests to speak on the consent calendar? Anybody else on Zoom or on the phone? Okay, do I have a motion for the balance? So moved.

Second.

Is this for item number 11? No, not yet. Thank you. We have a motion and a second. Madam City Clerk, roll call, please. And for the record, this is for items one through four, six, nine, and 10.

Councilmember Nielsen? Yes. Councilmember Fink?

Aye.

Councilmember Gallagher?

Aye.

Mayor Pro Tem Chenault? Aye. Mayor Lombard?

Aye.

Motion passes 5-0.

Thank you. Councilmember Fink pulled item number five, which is award construction contract for the Armstrong Avenue Pedestrian Bridge in neighborhood D-South, phase two, package two projects. Councilmember Fink?

Thank you, Mayor. Just first, appreciate the Public Works Department and the staff putting together a project getting a bid that's significantly lower even than the engineers estimates and the work that you guys did to bring that down. So thank you for that. Just a question about the selected bidder. Do we have any information about if the workers on the project are going to have, are local from Orange County or the Mr. City Manager?

Yeah, Mayor, I can answer that. It's not a requirement that we have in our bid process, so it's not an inquiry that we're going to make of the contractor.

OK. I'll just say that I think it's something we probably should add to know who's coming in and benefiting from the projects. But I appreciate the project. I'll move the item. OK. Do a motion.

Do a second. Motion and a second. Further discussion? No. Madam City Clerk?

Council Member Nielsen. Yes. Council Member Fink. Aye. Council Member Gallagher. Aye. Mayor Pro Tem Schnell.

Aye.

Mayor Lombard.

Aye.

Motion passes 5-0.

Thank you, ma'am. Next, we have item number seven that was pulled by Council Member Fink, and it's selection of a real estate broker for marketing and solicitation services for the South Hanger site. Council Member Fink.

I think that we have a representative from CBRE here and I'd like to perhaps solicit them to give us a little bit of a flavor of how they view marketing the site. This is not one of the at our local reuse authority meeting last month there was a great film that went through the process of how we are dealing with sites and one of the things they're all motioning to you. of the, it's okay, I'm going to get him up there in a second, but I appreciate that. I won't be that long. But there's a great film about the process for putting out sites for offering. And we're in the middle of that with a bunch. This is a pretty different site. This has got a lot of history connected to it. It's got a lot of conditions connected to it. It's got a lot of challenges connected to it. And so I'm curious if you could give us a little bit of insight as to how sort of CBRE's experience on this front and how you envision marketing that and what you envision bringing to bear on that. So it's a sort of open-ended question, if you don't mind.

Does staff have any input before we bring the The broker up?

Mayor, yes. Our deputy city manager of real property, Brian Moncrief, can answer some of those questions in regards to the broker.

OK. Mr. Moncrief?

Thank you, Mayor, Council. Council Member Fink, we have, through the last, I would say, couple of years, established a process for putting properties out to the market. One important facet of that process is selecting a brokerage group that has the experience to tackle unique circumstances such as this. While we select brokers based on their experience with particular land uses, this one is a very unique project indeed. And so CBRE, which is a global firm, has not only worked in a brokerage capacity, but a project management capacity with lots of hangers throughout California that are existing today and that have been rehabbed and renovated. So the CBRE representative, Anthony DeLorenzo is here to answer any of your questions and dive into it a little bit further if you desire.

OK. And I'll say, should the council adopt staff recommendation that my understanding, and I believe all of our understanding, is that council members will have the opportunity to speak with the selected broker after that selection is made. Anthony?

Good evening. You're right. It's an exciting project and definitely not one that's traditional to Orange County from a land use perspective. But the good news is it's not the first time an adaptive reuse has occurred for airplane surplus hangars. This has occurred up north. It's occurred at the Spruce Goose. The vision for that site, it's hard to imagine what it's going to look like, but it is iconic. And I think the community and how we looked at it was it'd be wonderful to see that site continue on, but in a reimagined way in some capacity. What I mean by that is, and I'll give you an example. Fortunately, we were selected and executed on the Ziggurat site down in South County relatively recently. That closed a couple weeks ago. And to say that was a site sort of similar with its attributes and its history was an understatement. And we undertook a strategy just really to market as wide as we could. And what I will say is on that transaction, we were surprised by some of the people who came to the foreground. And while at the end of the day, it's not... Hogue Hospital purchased that property. What I will say is some of the other bidders who had ideas for that site were incredible and grand. Hogue at the end of the day stood tall and won the assignment. But I would expect nothing less with your site. I think it's so unique, and I think what, I could come up here and give you 100 different ideas for it, and what I promise you, we're going to be surprised. There's going to be 105. And five of them will come out of left field. And the beauty is, I suppose it's up to you to decide which direction you want to take it. There's a lot of investigation. When we were looking at the site itself, there's a lot to unpack. both from the land use, the environmental, the cost to rehab. And so I think first and foremost, how we would engage on it is to really understand there's a room of documents that we'd love to crawl through to better understand some of those conditions. Because I think once we do that, we'd have a better sense on how to position the property in the best light.

Do you have a sense of how... and you may not fully have a sense of this yet so it's okay but do you have a sense of how to position the property given there's a really long term issue out there with the remediation and the ultimate transfer to the city and potential short term uses until we get to that sort of long term more permanent state and to seek opportunities for both maybe or how do you deal with that not conflict, but that issue?

It's a great question. And I think there's so many components to that answer. Let's talk short term, right? That site needs a considerable amount of capital to put in a position where people could get through it. So it's, I think, first and foremost, understanding what those capital constraints might look like, who's going to bear them. If someone comes in and does want to bear them, what's the responsibility? What kind of engagement will they want with you folks and the city from a long-term perspective? And when I say short-term, long-term, A trigger point, from my understanding, is plus or minus 2042, give or take. I think that's when a trigger with the Navy occurs. And so I think part of the bridge is how do you get to that point in a real effective way? Can the Navy be a partner? I think in some capacity that's another component to maybe accelerate some of those time frames. So, you know, long term, the costs are going to dictate much of it. And I think understanding not only the cost to renovate it and to seismically retrofit it, but then also to remediate the site so that whatever use finds a strategy there can actually operate properly.

My last question is, I would like to ask you about your compensation on this deal as a commission situation. And we're putting it out there and we don't know if any of the 100 or 105 ideas that come are actually going to work. What's your sort of position if you look at that and say we don't have the right project for Tustin and all the work and time you put in doesn't come back with a commission end on that? are you accepting of that possible eventuality?

Yeah, I'd love to say we sell 100% of the projects we take on, but unfortunately it's not the case these days. I sell a lot of office buildings, and as you know, that's not the easiest world to be in. So we'd accept it. We're excited for the opportunity to work with such a great organization on such an exciting project. I mean, it's iconic. To throw that word out sounds very brokerish, I get it, but it really is. And so we'd be delighted to work on it, even without the promise of an eventual payday potentially there.

I appreciate you being willing to answer some of these questions. They're very important to start the dialogue on how we shape the offering and the future of that very iconic site for our city. So I appreciate the questions and the dialogue. Any other comments? Or I'll entertain a motion. I'll move the items. Motion and a second.

Mayor, can I just say, I appreciate that as well. And I'm sure everybody will have, up here and out there, will have a lot more questions over the coming months, too. So I appreciate you answering those. And I've worked with your colleagues as well and looking forward to them. Thank you.

All right, Madam City Clerk, roll call, please.

Council Member Nielsen?

Yes.

Council Member Fink?

Aye.

Council Member Gallagher?

Aye.

Mayor Pro Tem Schnell?

Aye.

Mayor Lombard?

Aye.

Motion passes 5-0.

Thank you. Next, we have item number eight, which is the second reading and adoption of ordinance number 1582, Amending Tests and City Code Chapter 4, Section 1415, Powers and Duties Generally. Council Member Fink.

Thank you, Mayor. This is just a second reading, and I just wanted to briefly respond to a couple of the points that the other council members brought up last time. And there were fair points. And I'd say just two things. One is, I think it was Council Member Nielsen, has an excellent point that part of this is, my thought, a part of this is that we're going in the wrong direction, is that we should have more than just one point of failure for input into the council. So Council Member Nielsen's point. It's absolutely correct is that the city council is the oversight for that. The challenge with that is we all have limited time. If we had Irvine level staffing or something like that, we might have a little bit more ability. But we're all reliant on ourselves and the staff. And so that's why I'm suggesting that we might want to move in the other direction. to have some other point um so that there's not a single point of failure second is and the mayor mentioned this um we want to take a professional advice and i agree with that and i again just to be clear the direction that i don't think i don't think should be moving in an elected direction but an appointment for those positions and so we have just a second point of professional advice coming from a different perspective so Final comment is, once again, it's not directed at existing staff or leadership. It's just the opposite. This type of measure is easy to adopt when, and admittedly we're halfway there, so some of this is cleanup, but this type of measure is easy to adopt and move forward when we have good leadership. But my point is we should probably think about pulling that back for cases where we don't know what happens, so.

That's all I have, Mayor. Thank you. Fair enough. I'm going to move staff recommendation. Do I have a second?

Second. Second.

Any further discussion? Madam City Clerk, roll call, please.

Council Member Nielsen? Yes. Council Member Fink?

Nay.

Council Member Gallagher? Aye. Mayor Pro Tem Schnell?

Aye.

Mayor Lombard?

Aye.

Motion passes 4-1 with Council Member Fink dissenting. Thank you.

We're going to now move on to our public hearing items. We have three items tonight. And the first one is item number 11, which is vacation of Enderly Center Drive. If anybody wants to leave, they can. I'm going to open the public hearing. And I'm going to bring up Mike Grisso, our director of public works, for a presentation. Or are we going to? Yep. I'm not going to bring you up, but you can present from there if you'd like.

Good evening. Yeah. Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, Council, thanks for the opportunity to give a quick presentation tonight. The item for your consideration is the vacation of Enderly Center Drive. Enderly Center Drive is a north-south roadway connecting 17th Street and Yorba, bookend by Yorba Street on one side. I'm sorry, from 17th to Vandenberg Lane, bookend with Yorba Street and Prospect on either side, east and west. The vacation process has the city remove its interest over an access easement owned by the former Enderly Center Trust. They had a recent transaction in escrow owned by the new developers of Campo LLC. The timeline for this project on May 28, 2026, the city received that formal request from the property owner to vacate Enderly Center Drive. On the 16th of this year, pursuant to California Street and Highway Code Sections 8320 through 8325, the City Council adopted Resolution 2630, declaring its intent to vacate and release intertribe. July 28th, Planning Commission adopted Resolution 4552, approving the general plan conformity and pursuant to Government Code 65402. Tonight in front of you is the public hearing to hear such testimony on the vacation for this item. The findings, the city does not own the land in fee. Interleave Center Drive has been operated long term on an access easement in partnership with Interleave Center Trust that recently changed ownership to BW Campo 1 LLC and Intercorp SoCal 1 LLC. They own the land outright in fee and the city operates an access easement for roadway purposes. INTERLEASE CENTER DRIVE HAS BEEN FOUND UNNECESSARY FOR PRESENT AND PERSPECTIVE PUBLIC USE, AND THE VACATION OF INTERLEASE CENTER DRIVE DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A GIFT TO PUBLIC FUNDS, AS THE CITY OPERATES ONLY THIS ROADWAY WITH AN ACCESS EASEMENT ONLY. VACATING THE ROADWAY REDUCES CURRENT LONG-TERM FINANCIAL OBLIGATIONS OF THE CITY FOR ROUTINE MAINTENANCE. California Street and Highway Code Section 8324 requires these two findings. At the hearing, the legislative body shall hear the evidence offered by a person interested. And if the legislative body finds from all evidence submitted that the street, highway, or public service easement described in the notice of hearing or petition is unnecessary for present or prospective public use, the legislative body might adopt by resolution vacation of that street. Recommendation before you tonight is to adopt Resolution 2649, ordering the vacation of Enderly Center Drive, and authorize the city manager to take all appropriate actions to execute that process. That concludes my presentation, but I'm happy to answer any questions.

OK, before we start public input, I want to note for the record that we did receive 22 letters in opposition of this action. The letters were distributed to the city council, and they're made available to the public on the city's website. I do have one request to speak, but I do have a question for staff. Maybe it's for you, Mike. A lot of these letters that we received had fire safety concerns outlined in them. And I want confirmation from staff that we ran this through OCFA and the professionals for fire safety that the city contracts with that agency and received some sort of response on that. Can we comment on that?

Yeah, I'm happy to. We work with OCFA every step along the way for development process. They're part of our design review team. Plans go to their headquarters. They get reviewed for accessibility, turning radius, access, egress, everything that they need to do to continue to serve the community at the levels they have today. We have specifically taken the comment letter provided in the packet and shared that with our OCFA partners, and they've confirmed that they have no further concerns.

Okay, thank you for that. And then there was a kind of a nuanced item in your presentation about the city's interest, but not ownership in the street. Maybe the city attorney can comment on that, or you, Mike, or whomever wants to. What are we doing here? Are we selling the road? Or is it not our road to begin with?

It's not our road to begin with. There's a fee title. The owner of the property owns the property all the way to the middle of, from each side of the owners, owns to the middle of the right of way. The city simply has an easement, which is a right to use property. And it exists until it either expires or, in this case, is vacated. Once it's vacated, it just means that that property remains the ownership of the neighboring properties and that they're free to use it without that encumbrance in place. OK.

Thank you. And lastly, to frame maybe discussion is Planning Commission heard this item for the actual project itself. And can we comment on that process and what happened in the Planning Commission hearing? Just for the history. I think it's in the staff report.

Sure. We've got our Director of Community Development. I'm going to ask Alexa to come to the dais.

And the point I'm trying to make for council and the audience, anybody that's interested in this item is we're not voting on the project itself. This is having to do with the relinquishing of an easement over a road that is owned by the Enderly Center Trust and now a new LLC, but we're not actually deliberating on the project itself. Sorry, go ahead.

Thank you very much, Mayor. Yes, thank you for the question. The Planning Commission did hear this item and approved all entitlements related to the project contingent upon this council vacating THE STREET, ENTER THE STREET. THE STREET, ENTER THE STREET.

THE STREET, ENTER THE STREET. THANK YOU FOR THAT THANK YOU FOR THAT THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION. CLARIFICATION. CLARIFICATION. I WILL STOP HOGGING THE I WILL STOP HOGGING THE I WILL STOP HOGGING THE MIC. MIC.

MIC.

ARE THERE OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ARE THERE OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ARE THERE OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF FROM THE COUNCIL BEFORE STAFF FROM THE COUNCIL BEFORE STAFF FROM THE COUNCIL BEFORE WE BRING UP PUBLIC SPEAKERS?

WE BRING UP PUBLIC SPEAKERS? WE BRING UP PUBLIC SPEAKERS? YES, COUNCIL MEMBER GALLAGHER. YES, COUNCIL MEMBER GALLAGHER. YES, COUNCIL MEMBER GALLAGHER looking at the traffic studies is that the impact of vacating this portion of the road was evaluated and that it did not lower the grade. So traffic is put at grades when they evaluate. It did not lower the grade to the next lowest grade. Is that accurate? Yes. Yes, that's correct. OK. So the impacts were marginal is the way they would maybe describe it, or limited?

Yeah, for a little bit more context, traffic engineering kind of has a report card system. And so as we look at intersections, major thoroughfares, they are graded. A, meaning there is no traffic. You can make your way anywhere you want to go. No one's slowing you down. You're at the speed limit the whole way. B, C, D, just like a report card, it gets worse as we go on. Collectively in Orange County, most cities, all of our surrounding neighbors, including the city of Tustin, operate our major thoroughfares and intersections at a level of service D. That is a planned level of service based on the metro area, the urbanization, and just really the congestion. And so the area surrounding this development, including Anderley Center, we studied 12 specific intersections. They're all operating at level of service D and will remain operating at level service D with or without the new development. Okay. So not ideal, but we're not having a significant impact from this change. Correct. I'm not saying it won't be different. I'm saying it'll be at a similar level that we have operating today. Understood.

Mayor Pro Tem.

Just following up on Council Member Gallagher's comment about traffic. Traffic obviously is very important. We don't want to adversely impact residents when the new project is built. When you did the traffic study, was it based on the original 400 units or based on what is actually being built, which is 100 residential units plus commercial?

We looked at both.

Okay.

So back in 21, 22, the city was an arena rezoning process. We were looking for opportunities for sites to potentially redevelop. So we did a traffic study at that time that looked at 400 plus units and showed that we can still operate at that level of service. And then when Campo came in specifically, we re-evaluated that with the developer. They've met all of our conditions, answered our questions, and confirmed we will be able to continue to operate at that level of service.

OK, thank you. And then the other question is, with the vacation of that particular parcel, did the city have any ongoing costs to maintain that particular byway? And if so, what were the annual costs to the city to maintain that road?

Yeah, there's always ongoing maintenance for roadways. We work through the entire city with, say, seven different pavement zones annually. So each year we do one zone. When we go through that area, we would have maintenance costs anywhere from $150,000 up to $300,000 at any given time. That could be as much as a grind and resurface, concrete work, gutter improvements. We do that every seven years. So really over a 30-year lifespan, we have a potential of saving up to $2 million. by not having ownership or any right, ownership's not the correct word, but not having maintenance requirements for that Eastman roadway.

Okay, great. Thank you very much. I'm going for the questions.

Council Member Fink.

Thank you, Mayor. And this keys off the other things, but my understanding is this study, I understand the grading system, but as I understand it, The project, which we're not addressing tonight, but has some impact here, the approval of that project will ultimately result in a slight downtick in the number of anticipated trips per year, if I understood the reports about that.

Yeah, there are conditions that do support that. What I will say, it's kind of time of day. Right? It's an interpretation, you know, really of the impacts. And so that really makes it hard from a traffic engineer perspective. And we really stick to kind of our level of service. You know, really that puts us in a very specific grading matrix for how all of our transportation corridors, how they effectively move.

Thank you. Mr. Mayor? Yeah. I have some questions. Mr. Grisso, as we talked previously, You know, it's going to put pressure, obviously, on the Yorba 17th Street intersection. You know, something that we need to kind of keep a continual monitor of as the project unfolds and even through construction and also through completion. as to seeing if there's any sort of mitigation that's necessary once we see what the actual true facts are in that regard. Sure.

And we completely agree. We're not forecasting those type of impacts as a traffic study kind of analysis when it comes to completion. But it's always our commitment. It's always our commitment to this community to try to effectively move them anywhere they need to get around town, on their commute to work, on their way home, to get to soccer practice. We want to make sure that's as efficient as we can, understanding we work within constraints. We're off of a major thoroughfare, 17th Street, right off the 55 Freeway. At peak hours of every day, it's going to be congested. And I think it's congested now. It's going to continue to be congested. But what we do, we always have the opportunity to continue our partnerships. We work regionally with Orange County Transportation Authority on synchronization projects, on ultimate build-out conditions. We look at long-term master plan of arterial highways. We have these type of partnerships, specifically Caltrans, and close to that intersection is going to be an important one. We will continue to monitor and, as needed, bring back those type of recommendations to council for consideration if those conditions present themselves.

Thank you.

Okay, we did a lot of talking. There is at least one request to speak, so I'm gonna open the public input portion for this item, and if any members of the public wish to address the council, please submit a request to speak for me if you have not already, and if you're participating through Zoom, please raise your hand. Madam City Clerk, can you please manage this process?

Yes, Mr. Mayor, we currently have three requests to speak in person. The first one is Patricia. Next we'll have Liz Allen, and then Gary Wagner.

I have copies of the document that I'm going to read from, if you'd like. I sent this to the city clerk. It should have been received last week. I don't know if you already requesting that it be given to the mayor and city council and the county fire authority. Did you see this?

That was part of what I said earlier, that we received the 22 copies of what appears to be that letter.

Yes. I also sent, oh, I'm sorry. My name's Patricia Moulton, and I live at the Quail Meadows Condominiums, which are on Vandenberg Lane. I sent each of you an email on August 24 giving my arguments against the closure of Enderly Center Drive. Since then, I was given this document that hopefully I can read in three minutes with more legal objections. It's submitted by the concerned residents of Tustin to the people I just mentioned. We formally object to the proposed vacation and closure of Enderly Center Drive. Granting this street closure to accommodate a private developer's design configuration creates an immediate catastrophic threat to human life regarding fire evacuation and emergency response. Approving this resolution exposes the city of Tustin to immense long-term civil liability. Critical threat to life, wildfire and structural fire evacuation bottlenecks. Enderly Center Drive is a vital neighborhood emergency egress route. Eliminating this right of way clusters local traffic into a severely restricted bottleneck. evacuation traps. In a fast-moving fire event, hundreds of escaping residents, and this would include the residents of your project, will be forced into fewer roads, creating gridlock that could trap citizens in the path of a fire. Emergency delays, entering Orange County Fire Authority, heavy apparatus and ladder trucks will be forced to compete with fleeing resident traffic on a single choked access point, delaying life-saving intervention when seconds matter. Number two, absolute discretionary immunity waiver and future tort liability. Why public entities generally enjoy immunity for poor judgment in planning decisions. Am I out of time?

You're very polite, but yes, you are out of time. And just if it makes you feel any better, those letters have been posted on the city's website in connection with this staff report. So everything that you were reading is already part of the public record.

But the conclusion, just quickly, we demand the council deny resolution number 2630. At minimum, we request a continuance of this hearing until the Orange County Fire Authority can issue a statement that this closure will result in zero net delay to neighborhood evacuation times and fire department capabilities. Thank you for your time.

Madam City Clerk.

The next speaker is Liz Allen. And then Gary Wagner.

Hi, I'm Liz Allen, and I am opposed to closing Enderly Center Drive. I live in Park Tustin. I've lived there over 30 years now. And over those years, more and more people use Enderly Center Drive as a way to not have to get onto 17th or Prospect or Yorba. It's a safe, smaller street way out of the neighborhood. You have a lot of seniors, Enderly Gardens and all those homes off of Yorba and Quail Meadows, a lot of seniors don't like to drive on 17th because it's busy, and they prefer the smaller, simpler streets to get out of the neighborhood. And I'm baffling how you can add 100 new homes, which would be like 300 new cars, and then on Prospect, in Vandenberg, you're going to have another complex. It's going to bring in probably another 300 cars. So why do you want to add 600 new cars to that small little area and take away a street? It seems to me you would want to add a street for all these additional cars. I know there's studies and all that, half the time these studies aren't reality. You know, the reality is you're bringing in a lot more, hundreds and hundreds of cars, and you're going to take away a street, and 17th, as you said, is already ridiculously congested, and now you're going to make it even more congested, you know, along with Yorba and Prospect. So it just, it doesn't make sense to take away a street. So I'm asking you to please not vacate Enderly Center Drive. And I don't know if it matters, but I used to be the caregiver for Marge and Wallace Enderly, and they used Enderly Center Drive all the time to get out of our neighborhood. So thank you for your time.

Thank you for your comments. Madam City Clerk.

Gary Wagner.

Mayor, city council members, my name is Gary Wagner. And I'm here in objection to the proposed vacation of an early center drive. And the way I look at it is that the issue before us tonight is, does the benefit of accommodating the private developer outweigh the risk of reducing public safety access and exit from the neighborhood, right? When the potential benefit is a developer's convenience, but the potential risk involves human safety, evacuation capacity, and emergency response, The prudent choice is to err on the side of public safety. When I first heard about this project, that they were going to build these units, no problem. I thought they wanted to close Enderley Center Drive. I said, they're probably going to actually put houses on that street. But it turns out they're not going to do that. They're not going to put any houses on it. So they don't actually need that street for their development. They can completely, and I'm all for the development, they can completely build whatever they need to do, they don't need to block off that street. They don't need to. There's nothing that adds to their project that makes them need to block off that street. And so I'm just saying that for public safety concerns, that you should err on the side of public safety. And that's it. That's what I wanted to say tonight.

Thank you. Great comments. Madam City Clerk, any other requests to speak?

No, Mr. Mayor.

Anybody online or on the phone?

No, Mr. Mayor.

Okay, we're gonna close public comment and bring it back to the council for discussion. We've already sort of talked about a lot of these issues, but anybody wanna start off? Council Member Fink, or? Sure, yeah, go ahead.

Sorry, I'm just looking at the layout, just thinking about what Mr. Wagner was saying. I appreciate the comments and the concerns that have been raised. I did get, Ms. Moulton, your email. I wonder if you're related to the Moulton family of Orange County. But it was trying to delve in, and you heard some of the questions that were asked, because we asked our fire division chief about the fire safety concerns specifically. and about the traffic and roadway. And what the OCFA told us, and it's consistent with my experience, is that, because I live just up Yorba from where you guys are, So laterally sort of the same distance just a block off and that area is not in the fire danger zones by the time you know we get that far west in the city we're well away from the fire areas that Mr. Schnell has to represent and deal with and so while I understand the concerns I think we're a ways away. I also ask because I know there's traffic, there's Enderly Center's a convenient roadway for folks locally, but it's one of the lesser used roads in town, and we expect that'll be used even less with the new configuration of Campo at 17th. The other thing is, you know, I... I also see this in the context of what's going to be there. Because I think a lot of us think of it, and I know this isn't about the project per se, but the project melds into this discussion. A lot of us think about Enderly Center the way it was when we were growing up. when Blum's was there before Zoves and it was a hopping center and it's not been that for a while and with the revitalization that going to be Campo at 17th I think it really is going to be it's going to be you know frequented those homes are going to be very popular homes for people to want to buy because they'll be overlooking this center and I think one of the concerns that the developer has had and it's a concern that I share is is trying to separate out the folks coming on 17th into the commercial development, into Campo, or on the other side to Taco Bell, like I did many, many times in high school, as opposed to the folks going home to live in the homes on the back end, on the south end, or into Park Center or into your Quail Meadows area. And part of the goal is to keep those areas separate. And I think that makes sense. The other thing that I think we want to recognize is we're going to have very different traffic patterns. Like Mr. Grisso said, we'll have fewer trips than the full retail center would have. But we're going to have, when it's revitalized, a lot more traffic there coming because of the retail rather than because of the homes. And that's a downside. But the good side is, especially for folks who live nearby, hopefully it is a place that is thriving, that is accessible easily for you. And so I'm optimistic about that revitalizing into the kind of place that we remembered, at least that I remember going to as a kid, that we want to go to. I also mentioned the project as a whole because, as I frame out how I'm thinking about this, is I am thinking about what happens with Enderly Center. And a year and a half ago or so, we rezoned that to allow up to 413 residential units. I was against that. I didn't think that was a good idea at the time. And the good news is, It's not going to be that. It's going to be 100 residential units, which I think is probably a good mix. They're going to be, like I said, very popular homes. And my goal since that rezoning has been to try to facilitate the development of this new project. Because I didn't want this project to fail. Because if it fails, one, we lose the... opportunity that Campo on 17th is going to provide for us to to reignite what that enderly was like for all of us growing up at least me growing up and others as well but also risks you know somebody else would come in and and build a housing situation that would be no good for the residential area no good for the city's finances no good for having that retail center so I look at this I see that it makes sense to separate the homes from the commercial center. I see that Enderly is. I was at the planning commission meeting when this was discussed. And some folks talked about, hey, there are cars parked on Vandenberg. And there are. I went back and I saw that. And navigating Vandenberg, we do have to figure that out. We're going to continue to work on that. We're making sure that this works for the project because we want it to succeed. And the city is going to save some costs in doing this. Hopefully we can put that towards better uses for the residents in the area. Chair Mason talked about parks along the 17th Street corridor and making sure we're trying to do something. We need to try to do something along those lines. But I think when balanced, I realize that this is a change. It's going to have an impact on the folks who use that frequently. But as a whole, this is going to be better for the city. I think it's going to be better for the area. I know it's sort of difficult to imagine, but I want to make sure it happens because I think Against that background, it's really important to have this go through. And I do think that it makes sense to separate those two off. So I appreciate everybody's concerns. I'll continue, like the City Director of Public Works mentioned, to work with you and see how this affects things as we go forward and find solutions if there's more problems. But I think this is the right step for us to take.

Thank you, ma'am. I DIDN'T HEAR A MOTION. I WANT TO GIVE YOU THE OPPORTUNITY IF YOU. I'LL MOVE THE ITEM. DO I HAVE A SECOND AND THEN WE'LL HAVE FURTHER DISCUSSION?

YEAH, I WILL SECOND AND THEN I'LL JUST MAKE A QUICK COMMENT. I APPRECIATE ALL THE INPUT AND WHEN I SAW THAT IT RESONATED I'M SURE WITH EVERYONE. OBVIOUSLY TRAFFIC, PUBLIC SAFETY, THESE ARE TOP VALUES TO US AS A COMMUNITY AND SO WHEN WE SAW THAT I know we all did kind of dug in with staff and looked into this. And fortunately, staff also values this and was really already ahead of it. We saw them reaching out to OCFA, getting the confirmation that no, there is not a fire safety impact. That was my top fear in seeing the comments. And then on the second leg of that was the traffic. And I hear you. I think a couple of you commented about the validity of these traffic studies. I always question them as well because logic seems to defy what the outcomes are. I will tell you, though, having been on Planning Commission when the second Costco gas station was on, we had a lot of people had that same feeling that this is going to have an impact, this will have an impact. The traffic study said, It would not have an impact. And we trusted those. These are licensed engineers. We trusted them. We did approve that project. And lo and behold, they were right. Yes, there's traffic sometimes, but it has not been the catastrophe that really the community felt like it was going to be. So I can tell you, looking backwards, having crossed that threshold, The engineers are doing the work that we're asking to do. We studied multiple scenarios. And so really those two issues, the traffic and the fire safety, really are addressed. And I do thank the community for bringing these up, and I thank the staff for really addressing them.

Council Member Nielsen.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just some very quick thoughts. I use Enderly Drive to get back and forth off of 17th and some of the appointments I have to have. what I call Baja Tustin, but it's actually orange. And is it going to be a little more inconvenient? Yeah, it's going to be a little more inconvenient. But you know what? There's a trade-off. We're looking at a great project. We're looking at new invigorated retail that's going to be there. We're going to look at new homes that families can enjoy. I'm all in favor of it. You know, it's not our road to start with. We don't own it. The owners have said we want it back. And we just have an easement on there. So I think that for that, I'm definitely in favor of it.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just a couple of quick comments. One, thank you again for your thoughts. We respect what you're saying. And public safety is definitely job one. Living in Tufts and Ranch, fire safety is critical because we live really in the heart of the deep red of the fire zone. And that's why we had Chief Morgan Stern of the OCFA actually take a look at the plans to ensure there wasn't going to be an impact to property or life. And in looking at the history of fire incidents in that area, the last fire was the Paso Grand Fire in 1967. And it went as far as Skyline Drive. So I think, based on that, I have a comfort level that it isn't in a fire zone. I know that Council Member Fink alluded to that as well. Again, we're very serious about public safety. And certainly, the fire considerations should be looked at. And we have. And I'm very comfortable with the response that we received from the fire chief. With regards to traffic, again, traffic, no one wants to sit in a bottleneck. Council Member Gallagher mentioned the Costco over in Tustin. And we do take a look at traffic patterns and how they evolve over time. And we just actually approved a modification to the traffic signal that's going to be done. And that's in response to some of the backup in traffic over there. Nothing is set in stone. If we see that the project is completed and that there are some potential adverse impacts to traffic, we will revisit it. We'll take a look at it. Public Works will take a look at it to see if there are things we can do to help mitigate that. But I do approve the project.

Thank you. I'm gonna make a friendly amendment to the motion, and I hope the motion maker and the seconder will agree to it, but just, we're already gonna do this, but staff monitor the impacts, whether foreseen or unforeseen, by this development, and should there be surprises, that we do everything within our power to alleviate that congestion, which we've already talked about, but I would like to just put that in the record, if the motion and seconder would. I'll accept the amendment. Seconder?

As will I.

All right, thank you. All right, Madam City Clerk, roll call, please.

Council Member Nielsen?

Yes.

Council Member Fink?

Aye.

Council Member Gallagher? Aye. Mayor Pro Tem Chanel?

Aye.

Mayor Lombard?

Aye.

Motion passes 5-0.

Thank you. Next, we have item 12, which is the Development Agreement 2026-0002 for the Mariners Church Test and Legacy Project. I'm going to open the public hearing. And Jason Loya, our Senior Management Analyst, will provide a PowerPoint presentation. And Jason, why don't we take a one-minute recess while some of the room exits?

Go ahead.

Yeah. You're going to go?

Yeah.

All right. Go ahead.

I'm new here. Semi.

Yeah.

Take your time.

Okay. 2026-0002 for the Mariners Church Tussauds Legacy Project.

You have the floor. Thank you. Good evening, city council members. Jason Loya with the city manager's office. Item 12 is a public hearing on development.

Raise your microphone up a little bit. Yes. Thank you.

No problem. Tonight's public hearing is on development agreement 2026-2 between the city and Mariners Church for a site at Tustin Legacy. The action before you tonight is introduction and first reading of ordinance number 1581. The site is roughly 3 and 1 third acres of city-owned land at Tustin Legacy. It's at the northeast corner of Warner Avenue and John Johnson Way. Mariners Church is proposing a two-story, 33,400 square foot religious assembly building, a 622-seat worship center with 276 on-site parking spaces. The three approvals that carry this project include a conditional use permit for the religious assembly use, design review for the site layout and building design, and the development agreement. The first two were acted on by the Planning Commission. Only the development agreement comes to you this evening. This is a view looking south towards the future linear park. The Planning Commission reviewed and approved this design at the duly noticed public hearing on August 25th. The Planning Commission took two actions. Resolution 4556 found that the disposition of this city-owned property conforms to the general plan and the Tustin Legacy specific plan. Resolution 4557 approved the design review and conditional use permit, adopted the addendum to the specific plan supplemental EIR, and recommended that the City Council adopt ordinance number 1581. That brings us to step for tonight is the introduction of first reading of the ordinance and the second reading and adoption will be set for the next available city council meeting. The development agreement does four things. First, it vests the land use rules in place at approval. Second, it secures the project fair share contribution and all applicable development impact fees. The fair share payment is just over $1.6 million for this project. Third, it requires annexation into CFD 1801 Zone 4. That's an annual payment of $0.50 per square foot of the building constructed, which comes out to about $16,700 per year and escalates accordingly. And fourth, it requires dedication of on-site rights-of-way and easements needed for public improvements. With that said, staff recommends that the City Council introduce Ordinance Number 1581, approving the development agreement, and setting the second reading and adoption for the City Council meeting on October 6th. That's my presentation, and happy to answer any questions.

Thank you, Jason. This is a public hearing, so we're gonna take public input, but does Council have questions for staff before we do that? I will bring it back for discussion. Okay, thank you. I will probably bring you back up, but appreciate it, Jason. All right, we're gonna move on to public input for this item. If any members of the public wish to address the council, please submit a request to speak form. And if you are participating through Zoom, please raise your hand. Madam City Clerk, can I request to speak?

No, Mr. Mayor.

Anybody in the room? Okay, we're gonna close public input and bring it back to the, and I'm gonna close the public hearing, and bring it back to the council for questions, comments, or discussion. Does anybody have questions, comments, or just, yeah.

Mic's off.

She just turned it off.

OK. So not my night. Anyway, so the purchase agreement. So we're looking at purchase and sale agreements executed, pricing, everything. We're all good with that, right?

Correct. That's correct. Council Member Nielsen.

Okay. I just want to confirm that.

Okay.

That's it. Any other questions? Comments? Council Member Fink?

Thank you, Mayor. I spent some time at the Mariners campus in Irvine. and was very impressed at what they do. And when the purchase and sale agreement came before the council a year ago or so, I was excited about the project in part because of what the Mariners Church does in the community. And one of the issues that I brought up was we had talked about, and I think Mariners had been talking about being open to doing this, including in including a requirement that there be an opportunity for community use. And I think we've talked about the need for facilities for community events, whether it's the Miss Tustin or Mr. Tustin or the Tustin Area Man and Woman of the Year. All of these events end up being held in Santa Ana or Irvine instead of the city of Tustin. And the Mariners Church is open, I think, to the idea of having various events up there. But when the purchase and sale agreement came up, I said, maybe we should put this in the agreement. And it was suggested at that time that it fits better into the entitlements when the project comes up. And I've been informed that. That was not something that Mariners was willing to do. And maybe I could get clarification from staff about that if I'm incorrect. But I'd like to see that included because we're, I mean, yes, we're selling this property. But we're selling it at a price prime location. It's going to be right off the linear park. And part of the community benefit is going to be the opportunity for their center to be part of the community and to be used by the community. I know the Irvine campus is used by the community for reasonable fees and costs. And we're not asking for a free ride here, but something that's open so that it's an asset for the community. I appreciate that the folks at Mariners now are open to this, but what happens in the future is really the guarantee of that. So I'd like to see that actually be part of the development agreement, and I'm wondering if staff could comment as to if that was pursued or what the response was.

Council Member, Mr. City Manager, whoever. Yeah, our Deputy City Manager can answer that.

Thank you. Councilmember Fink, at the beginning of our sort of process in discussing the transaction, we had talked about the prospect of making it a more formal note in terms of use of the assembly hall on a certain period of time throughout the calendar year, as long as it didn't interfere with their operations. Through those negotiations, I think both parties sort of mutually agreed that it was better not to go down that road so as not to complicate transactions. So I think at the end of the day, Mariners Church has expressed a willingness to be good community partners as they do with most of the cities that they work with and operate within as far as their ministry services are concerned. But at this juncture, we didn't move forward with making that a formal declaration in any development agreement or the purchase and sale agreement at that time.

Okay, and I do believe that Mariners wants to be a good community partner, and I think they will, but saying it now when you're looking for something from the city is different than five years from now or ten years from now where there's different leadership or the property may be sold at some point and building that into the requirements. That's a very different thing, and I don't think it's a good thing to not have embodied that, and I think it's something that we talked about a year ago in including that. I think they would be open to, if they understood, I'm not looking for a heavy hand here, but something that embodies what, frankly, they say they want to do and what I believe they want to do. So I'd like to see that.

Thank you. Further comments? Council Member Gallagher?

It almost seems anticlimactic to be here tonight voting on this because it's been such a long haul to get to this point, and I do appreciate the staff and Mariners for taking that path together. I think Councilmember Fink brings up a good point. We did talk about that, and I'm still excited without even that language in there that Mariners will be a partner and open up their facility. As you mentioned, Councilmember Fink, they do this in Irvine, and there is no contractual requirement. And as our deputy city manager noted, they do this at all their locations without those contracts. And so this is something that is part of their ethos. Their calling, and I've heard their leadership say it many times, is that if they... If they were to close their doors tomorrow at their church, they want the city to notice. And that's a commitment not to just being in the city. It's a commitment to serving the city. And this is something that is deeply part of being Christian. And there's many Bible verses to that point. And I think that should resonate for you and us. And to me, that's enough commitment because that's not just them saying it. They've been showing it as well by their actions. Their involvement in the city of Tustin actually goes back to 2020. And since then, they've been involved sponsoring and participating and volunteering at all sorts of events, Easter, moving in the park. You can see them picking up trash still at concerts in the park and tiller days. They donate to Title I schools right here in Tustin. I think probably the most impressive is their commitment to Orange County Rescue Mission. That is by far, hands down, the most vulnerable element of our society here in Tustin. They are deeply embedded. They run multiple events throughout the week. They have full-time staff dedicated. And they are right there shoulder to shoulder. And so whether this is in the agreement or not, their commitment to partnership with the city, in my mind, is not in question. And so I'm excited to be even a small part of the vote tonight. And I'll move the item. OK.

There's a motion on the floor. Do I have a second? I'll make a second. OK. Further discussion, Mayor Pro Tem?

Thank you. And just to echo what Councilmember Gallagher said, I mean, I'm very familiar with Mariners. I've attended services at Mariners. And then we have a very close relationship with Pastor Molina. And you're correct that the ethos is about being a part of the community, embedding in the community, and doing what they can to actually improve upon that place. You know, the Tustin Legacy is an amazing parcel. And the city council is looking at not just getting high some best use and just cramming housing throughout the Tustin Legacy. We're looking to build a community that's sustainable for generations to come. And part of that is a faith-based organization. I don't think that we really have a dedicated faith-based organization in the Tustin legacy. I think this is an important start. I think they're going to do great work for the residents of Tustin and spiritually. And again, I'm 100% supportive of this project. So I'll move the item.

Okay, I'm gonna reiterate what I heard too, is I think the council is all agreed in an expectation that Mariners and the city explore access to an underutilized open space when they're not using it as long as it doesn't interfere with their operations. And I will underscore the lack of an available facility in the Tustin Legacy area as a resident. Unfortunately, we have a school district that built a nice gym and it sits empty all the time. And I think we're gonna expect more from them and from all of our partners out there. So with that, I'll call the vote.

Mr. Mayor, just a point of parliamentary inquiry. This is an ordinance. It'll be a second reading.

OK.

Thank you. Mr. City Attorney?

That's correct.

That's correct. Yeah. All right. Madam City Clerk?

Council Member Nielsen?

Yes.

Council Member Fink?

Nay.

Council Member Gallagher? Aye. Mayor Pro Tem Chenault?

Aye.

Mayor Lombard?

Aye.

Motion passes 4-1, with Council Member Fink dissenting.

Thank you. Thank you for the discussion, counsel. Next, we have item number 13. Thank you, Jason, for the presentation as well. Next, we have item number 13, Introduction and Approval of Ordinance Number 1579, Improving Test and Police Department Policy 706, Military Equipment Use Policy. I'm gonna open the public hearing. We do have staff available for questions if the council has them, but I'm gonna invite public input first. Public input, if any members of the public wish to address the council, please submit a request to speak for them, and if you're participating through Zoom, please raise your hand. Madam City Clerk, any requests to speak on this item?

No, Mr. Mayor.

Anybody in the room? Okay, we're going to close public input and close the public hearing and bring it back to the council for discussion, comments, questions. Any comments? I'll entertain a motion. I'll make a motion. Second.

Motion and a second. Any comments? Just a brief comment. This is the same ordinance, I think, as we've adopted annually because we're required to adopt this annually. There was a report about the use of this type of equipment that we adopted it. a couple weeks ago, maybe a month ago. And I think our police department does a good job in how it deals with this equipment and how it monitors the use. I know it remains a concern and will continue to be a concern, and that's why there's the legislation that requires this. But I think this makes sense.

Thank you. Yeah, thank you for the... the clarification, and I'm going to call the vote. And Captain Nelson, you're off the hook. All right, Madam City Clerk.

Councilmember Nielsen.

Yes.

Councilmember Feene.

Aye.

Councilmember Gallagher.

Aye.

Mayor Pro Tem Chanel.

Aye.

Mayor Lombard.

Aye.

Motion passes 5-0.

Thank you. With that, we'll move to other business. Mr. City Manager, do you have a report tonight?

Yes, thank you, Mayor. I want to provide an update regarding the Heidemann School Joint Use Park development. With the start of the school year, the Heidemann School Park construction has entered into its second phase, which will continue through May of 2027. Improvements during this phase will focus on north, south, and west sides of the campus outdoor field area and will include the new playground equipment, picnic equipment, picnic shelter, and office building, among other amenities as well. The third and final phase of the project is scheduled to start when school lets out in June of 2027. And the entire project is estimated to be completed in August of 2027. And that's my update for tonight.

Mayor.

Thank you.

Mr. City Attorney, do you have a report? No report this evening. All right. We'll bring it back to the council for our reports. Council Member Nielsen.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. On September 4th, I attended and spoke at the American Legion post-227 meeting. regarding kind of the veterans' legacy in Tustin and some of the things the council was considering. And I was there with my good friend, the great and mighty Mayor Pro Tem Ray Schnell. So it was very good to have a discussion with everyone there and get their input. And it was very, very informative and I think very, very helpful. Also, I just want to thank everyone that has texted me, called me, emailed me regarding my health incident that happened on Labor Day. So I want to thank everybody for their kind thoughts and prayers. So thank you very much for all of that. And that's all I have, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Good to have you here tonight.

Council Member Fink. First, I'm glad to hear Mr. Nielsen's feeling well. I didn't know. And you don't look any worse for the wear, so I'm glad you're here. Um, yeah, just a couple of, uh, of notes. One is, um, it's hung as hunger action month you can do something about that so just wanted to call to folks attention on Saturday this coming Saturday the 19th from 8 a.m. to 1030 a.m. at the harvest solutions farm at one two seven five one Lambert Road in Irvine our assemblywoman Connie Petrie Norris and the second harvest food bank are taking action and there's going to be volunteering for distribution and harvesting produce. So if you want to take some action with Hunger Action Month, that is one way, certainly not the only way you can do that. On the 5th, I was able to attend the Orange County Labor Federation Labor Day a picnic in Santa Ana, and it was good to celebrate Labor Day with so many people who are those laborers who the holiday was made possible by and for. I had last Tuesday a chance to meet briefly with Congressman Dave Min and Senator Alex Padilla, and I did mention to both of them that we needed assistance from the federal government in planning for our Northanger site, our Southanger, and and continuing the remediation efforts. And I did get a brief commitment from Alex Padilla to work on that and get back to us. So it is the beginning that's helpful. I do want to mention briefly that I think the Fullerton City Council tonight is hearing a presentation on the flock camera. So I know folks who have followed that. I will be interested to see what folks in Fullerton are saying and thinking. I'll be at the Sunset Market this coming Thursday, which is the last of the season, and from 5 to 8.30, there to talk about Tustin, answer questions, and get people to sign up for or donate to the Dolly Parton Imagination Library. So I hope to see folks there. I'll also have a community meeting at Del Taco on Saturday the 26th at noon so if you want to talk about Tustin then or if you like tacos or if you have a dragon who likes tacos come by Del Taco that's the Del Taco next to where the Del Taco used to be on Red Hill. My final point is I do want to pick up on something that Mr. Walsh said about parking and so I'll ask again because I brought it up last month but I'd like to put something on the agenda at a coming council meeting to discuss the parking permits, both ease of access and use, and use of parking permits when we have approved developments that are fully parked. But I need one of the other council members to agree to second that. If you just let me know, I'll circulate that through the city clerk, and we can have that as a discussion. Who knows what comes of that? But I'd appreciate if we could have that discussion.

That's all I've got there.

Thank you councilmember Gallagher At Orange County sanitation district committee meeting two weeks ago and it was minor discussion on moving projects forward for infrastructure rehab and plants at the treatment PROJECTS AT THE TREATMENT PLANT. THAT'S IT.

IT WAS ALMOST YOUR SHORTEST REPORT EVER UNTIL YOU TRIPPED UP AT THE END.

ALL RIGHT. TCA WILL BE HONORED AS THE EMPLOYER OF THE YEAR BY THE WOMEN'S TRANSPORTATION SEMINAR. DECEMBER 10TH, THEY'LL HAVE A SCHOLARSHIP AND AWARDS GALA. CONGRATULATIONS TO CEO RYAN CHAMBERLAND AND THE REST OF THE TCA STAFF FOR THIS HONOR. Also at TCA, they just did a customer service review, and their metrics were fantastic. Significant reduction in average wait times, 41% decrease in incoming call volumes, 4.5 out of 5 starts for customer satisfaction, and 195,000 new accounts. which brought them over the milestone of 3 million. So congratulations to TCA and staff. Just outstanding achievements. Congratulations to Prego. Prego was actually named the Local Small Business of the Month by State Senator Steve Choi. So if you haven't eaten over at Prego, they serve unbelievable food, handcrafted pastas, premium meat, seafood, warm hospitality. It's an amazing restaurant. Go over there and get some great Italian food. 9293 completed online California Special Districts Association training on the board's role on finance and fiscal accountability. 940 also attended the American Legion meeting at Mimi's Cafe with John Nielsen. And I just want to make a mention of 9-11. So we have the 25th anniversary of 9-11. I'm from New York and actually was in the city on 9-11 when the towers fell. I had a very good friend of mine from high school, John McDowell, who worked for Cantor Fitzgerald, who perished. And I just want to remember all the folks that died in the World Trade Center. There were over 2,700 people that died at the Twin Towers. They included 343 firefighters and paramedics, 23 New York City police officers. and 37 Port Authority police officers. In the Pentagon, 184 people died, consisting of 125 people in the building and 59 passengers and crew on American Airlines Flight 77. And then in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, 40 passengers and crew perished on UA Flight 93 when it crashed in the field. And those folks took over the plan to protect our nation's capital. So again, this day has a lot of meaning for me. It's a day I'll never forget, and I really want to just say God bless the victims, God bless their families, and let's not ever forget that day.

Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. We had a lot on the agenda tonight, and I just want to take a moment to celebrate and thank staff for all their hard work. We've kind of breezed through some major developments and projects going on in town. We had senior housing projects that's going to be added value and presence on the base. South Hanger Broker offering approval. Enderly Center, the last part of that project, approving the street vacation. A church, Mariners Church Agreement. We have a Ped Bridge construction that we approved, which at least one of us has been talking for a long time, two of us, is getting those bridges going. And the Civic Center use analysis. These are all by themselves big projects, and I just want to thank staff for all of your support and pushing this forward. No good deed goes unpunished, and we're going to keep asking for more, but thank you for everything that you've done. With that, we have... Some upcoming events, Councilmember Fink already mentioned, but we have the final Sunset Market on Thursday, this Thursday, September 17th from 5 to 8, 30 p.m. in Old Town Tustin. We have a free shredding event on Saturday, this Saturday, September 19th from 8 to 12 in the Civic Center parking lot. And we have a Fair Housing Fundamentals Workshop Wednesday, September 23rd from 2.30 to 4 p.m. at the Tustin Library. And lastly, a reminder that Tustin-Tiller Days Carnival wristband presale is available now through October 2nd. And Tiller Days is October 2nd through 4th. We'll have the parade in Old Town, and the festival and carnival will be up for those three days. Visit TustinTillerDays.com for more information. With that, we will adjourn. The next meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, October 6th, 2026, for the closed session meeting at 4.30 p.m. and the regular business meeting at 6 p.m. Thank you. Have a good night.