Planning Board - Regular Meeting

I have a pledge of allegiance. Will you lead us, Mr. Pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you folks. Call the role. Member Scully here. Member Dickensson here. Member Shufeld here.

Member Kho present. And member York is absent today. Excused. So we have a quorum. Uh next order of business is to review and uh approve the minutes of the previous meeting. Is there a motion? I'll make a motion to adopt the meeting minutes of July 17th. Is there a second? I second. Uh discussion on the motion. All in favor say I. I.

Oppose say no. Motion carries. Unanimous. Next item on the agenda is election of the vice chairman. However, one of our members is not here tonight and so I'm going to ask that we defer that uh to the next meeting or the next meeting when all uh members of the board are present to help us make that decision. Uh there will be a number of occasions tonight uh for public comment. I just uh would like to just suggest that we're going to limit public comment to uh two minutes per commenter and also ask you to uh restrict your comments to the issue that's before the planning board. So not everything that uh is going to be considered with respect to certain applications is going to be considered tonight. So we'll let you know the things that we're considering tonight and then if you want to speak you can speak on those issues please. First item uh we'll consider is PLPC 20220083. Is the applicant or representative present?

King's [Music] I know there's here Andrea and Barbara. [Music] Set it aside. All right. I'm going to text the applicant. Senator or I don't know. Why don't you Why don't you choose another item? See if will come back.

Yeah. All right. We'll move on to another item and come back to that. Hopefully the representative will be here or someone will speak on the proposal. Barb, uh we'll go to PLPC 20240059 84th Street. Is there a representative of that applicant here? Striking out 84th Street. This is the first. We'll try uh 20250018 249 River Street. Thank you. Come on down. Evening everyone. We're here for the National Troy U10 project. Um this is the National Bridge utility thermal energy network project. Um the project includes the construction of a new 1400 square foot building which will serve as the energy center building for the uh thermal energy project.

Yes. Thank you. Identify yourself please. My name is Alison Phillips and I'm here with the law firm young summer local council national. Thank you. Uh we also have representatives architect mention here as well tonight. Okay, welcome.

Um we last appeared before the planning board at last month's meeting um where we had discussed the meetings we've attended before board. Um also the uh variance that we obtained from the zoning board appeals in order to the requirement to have that line site 30 foot spacing between the buildings down to the waterfront. Um when we appeared before the board last month, we also received a w of the requirement or the prohibition in the city's waterfront resilience [Music] we received from the

Okay. Um, so we've been at this since April. We've gotten a lot of great feedback from the planning board, recommendations from the Troy Historic Review Commission. We've incorporated in um those recommendations into revised project plans. Um the last when we were here before the PL last month, it was a suggestion that we could add some additional exterior lighting to the building both for aesthetic reasons and for security purposes. Um so we went back and and did propose some additional lighting on the building to present tonight. Um we also appeared last week before the historic review commission since we didn't have that lighting on the building when we first appeared before them. And um we did receive their sign off that they were good with um both the um overhead fixture that we proposed for the front entry and the window sponses on the um sides of the building. Um so we're here tonight just to present those changes to the planning board. Um answer any questions. The board has of course received any comment from members of the public. Um, and

I think we might as well address this right off since you're talking about the lighting. Uh, the staff has expressed some concern about the rear lighting arrangements. Have you discussed with staff any of that issue? We when we were before the historical view commission last week, they did suggest that um the planning board may want to see some additional lighting on the rear of the building. I think currently we had two window scar building. Um we did take that suggestion back and we have looked at how we could add additional scar something that the plum expressed tonight that they would be interested. I don't know if the planning board has particular uh ideas on that uh separate from what staff wants. Any of you have comments on that point?

No, I think they're they have addressed what we were looking for from the last meeting. Okay. Um mainly streetscape security and what a banded window is. I think we went through that too, right? So, we're good on that. No mirrored glass. Yes. And uh so I think they've done a little bit of their work here. Okay. All right. Concerned with

Eric. I'm not sure that mic is working. So I think the staff concern is that the rear of the building is um how the lighting would impact that staircase which is sometimes used for um less than legal activities. Um and it might uh tend to discourage something up there. I think in the interim you know repairs that they've done down there that staircase is now I think closed off but I agree it is closed off but it's still open. could be a hazard to, you know, get back there for sure. Um, so, so was was there a foot candle recommendation from

Evan Galatelli with Cybertson Regosu Architects. Architect on the job. You can pull that mic closer to you and then speak a little louder, please.

Evan Galatelli, architect with Cybertson Regosu Architects. Um, regarding the phototrics, we worked with a a consultant, lighting consultant. Uh, we provided the minimum suggested foot candles for security purposes, which is one. Um, the current phototrics drawing that we were presented before HRC showed two foot candles on the back of the building, doubling the light fixture. If you so wish, we would be able to effectively double the foot candles of that. So just to re circle back um security purposes were met from our photometrics consultant. We can increase that if needed. That be satisfaction

the st the staff comment referred to the foot candles uh that an increase in the foot candles might be warranted. So would doubling it be sufficient from the staff perspective? I mean, I think if you're all right with it, you could leave it to be worked out with city staff um during the per building permit process. Okay. Okay. Uh any does anyone else want to present? You're satisfied. So, they're not going to hear.

Okay. Thank you. Let's see if the public has uh any comment. Thank you. Members of the public, anyone want to comment on this proposal? Okay. I if not we'll turn it over to board further board discussion. Any board comment or questions? No. Okay. So then uh is there a motion with respect to the application? So did we schedule a hearing for this? This is this the public hearing. So we're final now. We're in the final. Um, so I'd like to make a motion to give final approval to this project.

I second. Would you uh consider making the motion with subject to rear lighting consultation with staff? Yeah, I think we could we could make it subject to that. I think that the, you know, building department, the builder, they have confer regardless. If you're okay with it, feel free to if you're okay with it. Your motion, Jim. Okay. Um, so we can make it subject to uh lighting in the back that doesn't affect the you know the stakes of the ver building either um more for security but also we don't want big light packs shutting down the park either until we do the park. So that would be the motion. Thank you. Second. I'll second it.

Discussion. All in favor say I. I. Oppose say no. Motion carries unanimous. Thank you. Congratulations. Good luck. Thank you all. Thank you. The next item we'll take is uh 20250041 310 Spring Avenue. Is there anyone here representing the applicant? 310 Spring Avenue. Are we here on the wrong night? [Music] Okay, we'll go back to some of the earlier ones.

Is anyone here for King's Landing? On his way. Is there anyone here for 84th Street? 84th Street. He's on his way. I would absent. If they're not here, then you got They're not here. push it to the back or scrap it. Either one. Let's Well, let's wait by the end of here. Maybe if they're here at the end of the night. Yeah. And uh 249 River Street. We just did just did that. So maybe they thought they were at the bottom. I guess we'll go to number two.

74 New Turnpike. The applicant present. Yes, representative.

Good evening, Mr. Chair, members of the board. Uh, Andy Bricks, Brick Law Firm, Karen Zenowski from Bowler, um, Gfream Developers LLC, Anthony Cassell, Charles Cassell with us this evening, members of the LLC. Uh, this is the proposed 86 tiny homes at, uh, Leonard Hospital. You've seen this project before. Um we uh have made some uh improvements uh based upon prior comments. We uh received the staff comments uh last evening and we are prepared to go through both the notes and the staff comments that we received here this evening. Um Karen will take the bulk of them because they're more engineering related. Um I just wanted to touch upon uh the staff notes and recommendations regarding uh section 2858N applicant to propose new development intensity guidelines standards. Um our bulk standards because as you know this was a PDD our bulk standards are included in in the site plan that we had provided. Um, and in addition, the final site plan that's before you this evening has all the setbacks and uh measurements and widths called out and that's what our set of bulk standards would be. So, you do have that information. Um, we also provided that information in our original PDD application to the city council. Uh, the January 10th letter that I authored to commissioner Coburn uh also addresses that question. So those that information is in the record uh both on the site plan and uh in the the letter to Commissioner Coburn. Uh we can more than willing to provide it in an additional document. Uh we can definitely do that, but I just wanted to let you know that the information has already been provided.

Well, Andy, on that point, so what you're saying is by looking at your site plan, we can tell what your uh density proposal is now. But is that what you're proposing for the PD forever? Correct. Whether you spell it out in that way or you just by putting these properties where you're putting them, you're saying that is the plan. Correct. That is the plan. That is the site plan that we're proposing. But you're willing to articulate it as a plan that's applicable to the project irrespective of how it may be developed in the future.

Correct. And and if you want a separate document where we lay out here's the setbacks, here's the road width, here's the parking width, here's the separation between buildings, we can do that in a separate document, more than willing to do that. But that information is already part of the plan. Understand? So I think I think that the uh planning department would be more comfortable if we had a separate document. Happy to do it. Okay.

And then on the other one, uh 79 E1C uh description of the intended market structure. Uh we've stated on the record throughout um as as well as in the letter to Commissioner Coburn, we are a 55 plus um rental product, market rate rental product. So it will be 55 and above and it will be rental at market rate. But again, we can provide a separate document if you want that in a separate document, but it is in the record. We've we've identified that a number of times. So uh those were my two issues to address. I'll let Karen speak to the rest of the notes in the staff reports. All right. So, is she gonna address the placemaking uh item? Yes.

Yes. And I think when you when we get through this and you'll see we're able to address all of these concerns, I think we'd be in a position where we'd ask you to consider an approval this evening knowing that there may be a number of conditions attached to it such as providing those separate documents I just mentioned. Um, but first, let's uh let Karen address the staff comments. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. Karen Majinowski from Bowler Engineering for the Record. Nice to see everyone again. Um, it's been a bit of a long process to get here since we started the PDD, which we now have approval for. Uh, so just as a refresher, when we started here, uh, we had about a hundred tiny homes. We had a lot of parking and then we had too little parking. And then we found that what we felt was happy medium based on feedback from this board um and from city council as well. So where the project ended up was 86 tiny homes as a reminder ranging from 500, 600, 700 or 800 square feet per home as outlined on our chart on the site plans um that has a key with those sizes and where those homes are located. We ended up with about one and a half parking spaces per home based on the feedback we received here. So there's 137 spaces as part of the project. The layout has stayed generally the same, but we were able to move things further apart. So in general, there's a minimum of 11 ft of spacing uh to meet building code between the homes. And as a reminder, we're viewing this as a deconstructed apartment building rather than one tall structure where people have further to go from their cars up an elevator, multi-story, things like that. We've broken it down into these individual units with a little bit of green space in between. So that's the

intent uh due to the market that we're targeting. So that's the minimum spacing we have. It's also the minimum setback from property lines is 11 ft. And then in the center island area where there was a concern both from the board and fire department that things were a little tight, we were able to stagger the homes as you can see, which should also be more aesthetically pleasing. So they're not in two straight lines. And we were able to get a minimum of 13 all the way up to 21 ft uh between those two center rows of homes where there's green space. We've also added porches to the homes. So you'll see that on some of those as well to accompany that for some. And we've gone ahead and done our full design plans uh from a site design standpoint for the project. So that included going out and doing soils testing to analyze what's there and to meet the criteria for DEEC and for the city storm water requirements. So we do have a storm water management area on the north side as originally planned as well as on the east side as originally planned and the watershed is split up accordingly. We did encounter good soils. Uh so that was another benefit of the explorations that we've done over the past few months. So we are proposing infiltration practices there. There's pipe network throughout the road uh systems in the site to convey it as well as sheet flow. And another benefit is that it we are not sending it to the city system within the roadway. It is being handled on site. There's no uh direct pipe tie-ins to new turnpike road. From a utility standpoint, we've designed all the water and sewer infrastructure throughout based on city requirements

and guidelines. um and getting it to tie in as it did today with the hospital and what was prior 140 bed hospital is now 86 new efficient homes. So there's a significant reduction in sewer flows that are there. We did receive some feedback on utilities and engineering all things that we can address um if it were needed to be a condition of approval. uh we see no concerns there and we've also coordinated with the fire department today because we've been back and forth with them. So some of their comments at the beginning of the memo uh were the fire hydrant spacing every 300 ft and details. So we did have them send us that detail we have. So we have that they are okay with the spacing of the hydrants. They do want one at each entrance road frontage. Not a problem. We we agree to that. Uh they didn't have concerns with the spacing of the homes when we talked to them today uh or any congestion on site. As a reminder, we provided a TDMP which flagged no issues. Uh we talked about the uh density of the development. So everything is either on the plan andor within the application as required. We are reducing the impervious by over 25% from what's there today. So, we're adding green space, which is another benefit for the project. As a reminder, there's a recreation area in the northeast corner away from the road. It's a little over 3,000 square feet now, and uh we're agreeable to discuss the amenities uh that are within that area. that would be appropriate such as

picnic tables for people to gather. And I think with that, uh, the last thing to note is if they want to add a sign by the road later, they would get the necessary permits for that. And I think that was the last comment within the memo. So, as Andy mentioned, we're excited to be back to hopefully get to a final approval and address any comments or questions that the board has. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Uh board members, have any questions? Yeah, I have a few questions. Um there are two dump sites both on the north end. Am I correct? There's nothing on the south end or

the two dumpster enclosures are on the center of the north end and then the outer edge of the northeast. Yes. So you feel that with 86 tiny homes that's going to be enough with are you having a recycling dumpster and a regular garbage dumpster in each one? Yes. Okay. So the area that I see starting with the A's and then it goes to C's, D's, and the perimeter. So that's everything in front of that is a sidewalk.

Correct. Okay. So then you go to the middle and you have a sidewalk that goes in front of the houses. But if you want to go this way there. There's no circle that is going to bring that sidewalk all the way around the middle. That's correct. The way it is now, if the board would like a connection between those two rows, we have room to add it on the south end.

So, you're 55 and over. You're not guaranteed that everybody is going to have a car. So what I'm assuming is everybody is responsible for putting their own garbage in the dumpsters. Correct. So somebody all the way to D on this top right corner has to if they don't have a car has to walk all the way over to that dumpster to put their garbage in. Correct. [Music] Um, I think in the middle you still have way too many houses. Uh, I had asked Mr. Brick a long time ago if you got rid of your A's and B's, would C's and D's suffice to do what you need to do financially and he said no. Um, wasn't feasible. I don't know if he did numbers on it or whether he's just saying that no, it's not going to work. The owners have run the numbers even recently ahead of this meeting and 86 is the minimum.

So 86 is the minimum number of houses you can have in here to make it feasible for you to build. Correct. They had planned on 100.

Um I still think it's too many houses. Um I don't know what anybody else here thinks but I think the middle is way too congested. Um, I would like to see the sidewalks connected. So, everybody, I mean, if you want to take a walk, if you want to walk around the center, you want to be able to walk a circle. Um, as far as the recreation area goes, um, I think some picnic tables and maybe picnic tables under a pavilion. Uh maybe a couple of grills. And how many of your houses are going to have porches?

That's still to be confirmed about a quarter of them do. Now quarter of them. So you're moving from an apartment where you're looking at four walls and you're going into a tiny home where you have no place to sit outside. Yeah, we'll we'll get we'll get a porch on most of them. Yes, we can add that. And the I think your first proposal had some of them with garages. You've taken all the garages off. We had example architecture, right? To show the look of the homes, but the intent was not to have the garage. There are no garages.

There's no garages on any of these. Okay. Um, I still think there's too many too many homes in here. I think you might need more garbage places for people that don't have cars that are going to have to walk to get to these dumpsters. If you took a couple of houses out, you might be able to do that. [Music] Are you going to have somebody there 24 hours a day or is it just going to be during the week days? Is there anybody going to be living there taking care of this or it's just going to be somebody coming in on occasion?

The owner will maintain it and come in um not 247. They'll come in for maintenance. Okay. And the um the people that are on turnpike and you're putting houses behind them, is there going to be a fence separating Yes. those properties? A tall enough fence? Yes. Six foot? Yes.

That's on our proposed plan. Just on the last note, uh does the applicant are you okay with providing an operations and maintenance plan prior to a co being issued for the site? I mean, you're planning to own the the roadways there and the utilities within this district, right? Are you talking for everything, not just storm water? I would say just some some type of management plan of of what's you know

we can do that. [Music] So if you connected the center with sidewalks on each end. You're right on the roadway. Correct. We could put the sidewalk up against the homes. So, your very first B on that middle section in the bottom is How do you put a sidewalk there?

We can fit one right in somebody's backyard. I mean, I don't see any space for these people that don't want to live in an apartment to have space to even come outside and do anything. Uh, are you going to have shrubs, plants, flowers, anything?

The target market is people who would want an apartment but have more accessibility so that their parking is right outside of their unit. And then if they do want outdoor amenities, it's in the recreation area. I'm not agree with that at all. There's no way you can take more homes out of here. There's not.

And is there anywhere you can put more garbage bins? We could look at that. I think you need some at the other end, not just at the north end. You need some on the south end. I don't believe that everybody in this complex is going to have car.

We could include one on the south or move one further down. So, how often are these garbage receptacles going to be cleaned out? That has to be coordinated with the waste management company. Assuming once a week, depends on their schedule. Once a week for all of these houses. I I don't see it. I'm sorry. Were you suggesting I don't see it. Were you suggesting just moving one set to the other end or adding an additional set? We can move one to the other end. Pardon me. We would move one to the other end

but still have the same number. Yes. You think that's enough? I'm not really sure how big the receptacles are or how much garbage is going to be produced. So, it's kind of hard to tell if two It's going to be kind of hard to tell if two receptacles are enough. I think because the owner's doing all the maintenance, if they observe something isn't adequate, it can easily be changed or added. Also, what's the total occupancy expected? So, so there's 85 units. Most will be a single person. Some might have two. Okay.

Yeah. So, will we see the plans for these homes eventually? The building plans, if we get approval here, those will go to the building department. Um, as far as those drawings, we've submitted what the buildings will look like to this board. I saw the the one that you have on here, right? There's just one that I saw with a small porch in it. So, there's two

and I brought it up the second one. The first one didn't come up the second time. How many houses uh in the original plan? 100. 100. So, you cut it back quite a bit. I I like the concessions that you made uh widening the roads. Um emergency vehicle friendly. Um I I like what you did. Thank you.

I would just note to that um in the PDD I in the plan development district city council in the resolution it mentions the 86 home number. So that was included in city council's approval essentially at least a reference to to it. So since the PDD approved this, they approved the number of homes that are going to be put in there. So we have nothing to say about that.

I don't know the I don't know the details, but I don't recall whether it was approved as a I don't recall whether it was approved as an up to or a maximum or an exact number. I mean my interpretation is the code generally allows for you know what reasonable deviations from the this the basis of the site plan in the PDD

what reasonable is I don't know 10% maybe for any given offset or distance or number of units depends what category you're talking I would Okay. [Music] I I I just have a problem with you're moving from an apartment, you want to move into a tiny home, you're still looking at four walls. You have no space out there to do anything. Some of them, maybe a quarter of them, you said, are going to have [Music] majority of them will have Porches.

Porches. We'll add more. So, your smallest homes, will they have a porch? Your 500 square feet, will that have a porch? We'll make sure each sized home does, but not every home. The majority will have one, but not every home will have one. We'll try for every, but it'll be the majority. I mean, who says that everybody wants a porch? I do a patio. Well, maybe you want a porch, but maybe I don't want a porch. Maybe I want to live in the house without a porch. Maybe that's what I like. Maybe I like to walk my garbage down to the down to the dumpster, get some exercise. But you're going to have to,

you know what I mean? Maybe I want to walk in the road. That's all I'm just saying. You know, they're they're targeting, you know, if people don't want to live there, they don't have to. You know what I mean? They're gonna live there because they like it. question is uh some of the things that you know you've been asked were with regard to garbage pickup you're going to have an operational plan to maintain the property. Yes. So you know if you see that there's more garbage more pickups just like any apartment building to look nice and function well

of course I mean you don't want to go downhill you're not going to be able to rent these things. Um, so with that said, you also there's there's a thing that I'm struggling with here is the number of houses was 86. Okay. Um, but we had gone up in parking. What? We started at certain number of parking. Refresh my memory. What was the original? There was about one per home. Then there was about two per home. Okay. Then there was now there's one and a half. Now there's one and a half. Right. 200 some odd parking spots in there. So yeah, I don't you know if some people don't have cars, you know, and some people have two cars, is that what your thinking is on this or where did we come up with that math?

There was a concern at one point if guests visit, where are they going to park if there's one per home? So then we added one additional per home and then that was too much pavement. So this just allows for flexibility where some homes have a car, some have one, maybe a couple have two, maybe there's visitors. So, so there's no place in here that you could have a small parking lot so that if you have visitors, they could park in a separate section and walk to a home. We could take away the wreck area, but we would rather keep that in the green space than add a parking lot. No.

So, would anybody here like to see something in that wreck area? Do you want picnic tables? Do you want a pavilion? Do you want nothing? Do you want a couple of barbecue places? 3,000 square feet. Is that what it is? Yes. 3,000. Um, how many? You know, for me with the wreck area and you're setting aside, but what you're trying to say is that you don't know exactly what's going to be. It's not going to be a pickle ball court, for example, or a swimming pool. So, you know, it might be what the residents decide. Is that what you're saying? You're just setting it aside. If everybody says, "I want picnic tables or grills," you're gonna put grills there. If you make us decide now, we'll work with your suggestions.

I think what I'm saying is that on your plan, there isn't a defined sport or and that recreate. It's flexible. It's just recreation you're providing. Thank you.

It would be nice to have maybe a small pavilion because some some of these people over 55 don't like st sitting in the sun. You know, some of them do. Maybe have a decent sized pavilion. have maybe six six picnic tables. Four six picnic tables underneath. Four picnic tables and uh maybe a grill. Um outside obviously outside um for fire hazard reasons. Um because some people like sitting outside in the sun. If they want to get out of the sun, you got a little pavilion. I think that'll be perfect. What do you think? You'll get there.

That's what I'm thinking. you know what do you think? See what the public thinks here. Okay. Any other questions or comments? All right. Thank you. Thank you. We'll open it up to Well, Andy, do you want to address a few issues?

And briefly, u member Skully's absolutely correct. The solution to the garbage is frequency of pickups. So, if it has to become daily to keep it neat and tightly, then then that's what has to be done. that will be part of our management plan. Um I heard a number of things that it seemed like you were interested in that that we were amendable to agreeing to as conditions of the approval. We are trying to work with you. Um 86 is the best we can do. We can't we can't move that number, but I think we've we've worked with you on a lot of the other things. We we'll connect the sidewalks. We'll provide uh picnic tables and grills under a pavilion in the recreation area. uh porches on at least the majority of them. Uh the management plan, the operation and maintenance for all the utilities as well as the the basic management of the property. We can provide that and advance the cos. Um and I I think we're in a position where you can we can all take a victory lap. Say we've designed this the best way we can and we got a great project ahead of us. So thank you.

Thank you. You'll have another opportunity to comment. Let's ask the is there any member of the public here to comment on this proposal? Yes, please come down.

Hello everybody. Stephen Maples. Um I'm going to do the same comment I've done twice before and point out that there the crossings uh there's no dedicated crossings, pedestrian crossings to get across these paths. Um they're not connected. So there's a risk especially with older drivers and especially since the road was made larger. So now that speeds are are going to start moving up. So um some crossings uh raised crossings would be ideal but at least painted crossings um to be able to circulate uh throughout the the throughout the development. Um and also as far as I understand it, I believe that 28570 is applicable in this scenario which requires um it when buildings are not built to the to the front lot line and a sidewalk shall link the primary entrance to the the municipal sidewalk. There's not a municipal sidewalk here. Um but that's a problem that this should be solving. We should be encouraging um the that pedestrian safety. So as far as I understand the law there, this isn't really a suggestion. this is an obligation. Um, so you know, I think we should condition any kind of approval on seeing that. Thank you.

On seeing what? On seeing the the uh pedestrian circulation, the crossings, particularly the crossings to to help with interior circulation and connection out to the street that there's just not a sidewalk that goes out to the street at all at this point. So, thank you. Did you say 28570? Yes. 28570. Stephen, are you asking for a connection to the sidewalk across New Turnpike?

If if if they're I would say if they're not willing to build a sidewalk along the frontage in anticipation that the city would take up that mantle to install a a a sidewalk on that side of the street. Right now, there is not a sidewalk on that side of the street. There is one across the street. So, if they're not willing to do that, then yes, a a connection across the street would be appropriate

by by delineating a crosswalk across the public road. Right.

Yeah. I talked about this with their engineer yesterday. I was waiting to see what you guys had to say about it or if you're in favor of it, but does look like a reasonable thing that could be done if they connect the sidewalks out to the front and then run a you know midblock crossing or something to get because so there is existing sidewalk on the opposite side of Turnpike Road. So kind of complete some connectivity out there. So, in order for them to get to Turnpike from this development, there's no sidewalk coming out where the cars go in. Correct. Not yet.

And that's what we want. If you desire, it could be conditioned and that would have to go through my office since it would be in our right away. I think were you talking about onsite connecting to the crosswalk that's going to go across new new turnpike? I mean there's nothing here for them to get out to this. There's nothing here for them to get out to there. Yeah. I just wanted there's no sidewalk. I just wanted to clarify for Chris that

any other member of the public want to speak on this application? Yes. Come on down, please. Hi everyone, my name is Arthur Wang. Uh this is my first time being in one of these uh hearings, so please forgive any mistakes I may make. Just speak close to the mic, please. A bullet to

like this. All right. Um the two questions that I had as I was sitting over there was uh firstly the question of we I heard in the discussion that the collection of trash was going to be essentially uh decided and if there were any deficiencies in the trash frequency that it would be stepped up. My question on that is uh is the decision to step up frequency of trash contingent essentially essentially uh on just the landlord deciding to and any pressure the tenants may decide to put on the landlord if that happens. Uh the second question I did have was uh what the rec area was going to end up looking like. I I don't believe I heard um a final decision on what was going to be in there and uh whether or not the developers were required to put anything in there other than just grass. I suppose uh that's my two questions.

Well, I think the um applicants representative said they would have a pavilion with number of picnic tables and grills. So in that area, what was your other question? Uh the other question was ultimately who makes the call uh regarding the frequency of trash and is it essentially contingent uh on the landlord's decision?

I would I mean I don't know the answer to this but I assume that the management would want it neat and acceptable to the tenants or they wouldn't have tenants. So, I'm sure they'll take care of it, but unless I don't think the city will be involved unless it becomes a health hazard, in which case health the city would be involved. Yeah. I mean, if they're breaking, you know, building and codes laws, they'd be issued notices of violations and it's part of the benefit if they develop an operation maintenance plan, something to also to, you know, point to if there's issues there to help enforce it in addition to the actual code violations. Okay, thank you very much for your answers.

Thank you. Is there anyone else to speak on this application? If not, we'll close public hearing and we'll open it up for to further board discussion. Yeah, Tony. Um, I was just wondering, are all these sidewalks going to be wheelchair accessible? Yes, we have we have to comply with the ADA. So, in terms of there's no curve, there's, you know, ramped up Anybody else on the board? Okay. Uh, what's your pleasure? You can uh Peter. Yes. I I just want to inform the board I I I think I made a fairly comprehensive list of all the conditions that Okay.

were discussed there. I don't know. Okay. Do you want to Can you recite them? I can. Please. Yeah. Just do you do you want to please do it before a motion is made? Okay. Yeah. and then they can motion question will be after we hear the list whether or not we're comfortable with a conditional approval or if we need to leave it open until okay we see it

documented the ones I have and I think it's comprehensive um is if the applicant uh is to provide a a 28580N letter uh detailing the the bulk requirements and things like that that they're proposing that will govern this PDD now and in the future. Um secondly uh the applicant will provide and that'll be under separate cover the sep the applicant will provide a marketing letter

that will uh show the board you know the essentially the occupancy and things like that and how how you know the approximate market rates that they're going to be uh sold at. Um second uh thirdly uh that the uh recreation area which is currently uh not showing any development 30 by 100 in the northeast area of the site will be equipped with um a small pavilion capable of uh covering four to six picnic tables uh with uh I don't know how many grills some some one or more grills outside for the use of of the tenants um so that people have shade as well as sun in that area.

Okay. Um, next I have um that the applicant connect the sidewalks which are on each side of the center aisle on the sides so that someone can make a full circuit of the um of the center island we'll call it. Um uh the applicant commits to providing an operation and maint management plan uh prior to uh so that as a condition of getting their CO uh and it should be a fairly comprehensive plan to govern you know regular maintenance of the hydrants and the sewers as well as all the snow removal and garbage collection all that. Um, uh, I'm not sure if this was agreed or not. Uh, whether or not to move a trash bin, one of the I guess there are two sets of trash bins of two each. Uh, there was an offer to move one set to the south end of the south side of the project, but I don't know where the board was on that exactly. I know it was kind of

I think weren't we talking about the number of pickups adjusting the number of pickups need for another dumpster you know if they have a pickup a day. Okay. I I think then then maybe that can be covered in their management in their operation and management plan. Um so I don't think the issue was uh I think the issue was the location the convenience of people on the south end getting to the

right. I mean, you know, some people are going to have to move their garbage in the winter too when there's ice and snow and things like that. So, the management might consider spacing the the trash bins uh appropriately for the use of the tenants. um uh management uh to provide uh uh I guess there are 86 so at least uh 44 of the structures with porches majority uh hopefully more than that but uh the board the board favors porches on these units um and uh last u in s in in conformity with the suggestion of Mr. Naples uh to paint crosswalks within the um complex so that people have marked crossings and uh and that the crossings are do are marked good well enough so that uh you know traffic will be well aware that people are are to cross at those at those locations. In addition, there's been a suggestion to uh connect the sidewalks that are in the in the complex to the at least to the road to a crossing to the uh um turnpike road sidewalk. So, that would involve construction of a sidewalk, which I do not think is on your plan at all

in the entrance way if that I don't know if that's feasible or not. And the one question I would have on that Rick is is does that include painting a hatched crosswalk across new turnpike because that I think it would with with this to the city spec and with the city's you know uh consent the support of the traffic engineer. Gotcha. Which is also our city engineer. Okay. So would there be a sidewalk on north and south that goes out to turnpike? Uh I don't I don't know. That might narrow the road too much. which I don't know they they

we don't we don't show sidewalk reaching we save the green space on the north side so I would anticipate we extend on the south side to new turnpike and then have the painted crossing on the south side okay can I make one more suggestion um as you're going in on the south side you have uh three A buildings then you have four C buildings and then the rest That whole line north and south or B. Can we connect that sidewalk too for the B and the C?

No. [Music] Well, while you're up, could I just ask a question, too? Uh, on these porches, are these contemplated to be porches that actually could be occupied or are they just overhang over the front door? I think on your elevation, at least one of them looked like it was just maybe a basically a canopy over the front door. You would be able to sit on them. Yes. That doesn't take away from the square footage of the house. No. No. Okay.

Yeah. So, we added them so to ensure they fit. And then as far as the the crosswalk we're talking about across the road, there's actually one just south of our driveway today. It I haven't seen it recently. It might have gotten really faded. So the the location is there. Um so that seems to be the the place that makes sense. So was that from when the hospital entrance was there? Probably. I'm sure. Yeah. Okay. Thank you for that list. That's everything I have. That was helpful. Yes. So, uh, does anybody object to anything that's on the on the list? No. Does anybody need something else on the list?

Are you guys you're in agreement with the list? Yes, we'll we'll agree to the list, but if it's a condition of approval, I think that protects the city a little more. Yeah. So, uh question is the is the city planning department and engineer comfortable with approval and that condition which means it's going to be on you folks to basically approve it and enforce it

of the per the executive secretary. Yeah, I mean I'm I'm certainly comfortable with with with many of those elements, you know, especially like the sidewalk connectivity and crosswalks are be designed by PE and then reviewed by our engineering team and so right up our alley. Uh I I guess my question would be are you comfortable with the um you know pavilion and I I assume temporary structures. I mean you want the pavilion to be a permanent structure. Is that the assumption here? But the other amenities could be temporary or you want them to be permanent. Just look for clarification here. The picnic tables.

Yeah, like picnic tables and Oh, that could be part of their management plan, wouldn't it? Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So, I mean, those are temporary facilities. Okay. So, it would seem to me like, you know, just talking out loud here, right? The pavilion's kind of the So, Chris, would we have to specify that if they put a pavilion in, we want a concrete slab there? I think you should I think if you have an idea for what you want if you want that right now, let's add it. Okay. Condition it. I mean, it's kind of foolish to you'd have to have perfectly level ground to put picnic tables there. So concrete slab underneath the I mean I don't know

there's pavilions with gravel you know too both we we I mean I was anticipating a permanent structure not a wedding tent you know we thinking of a permanent structure made of wood that at least four tables could go underneath and have some tables outside with the grills outside posting post and beam concrete floor no propane charcoal grills permanently affixed into the Is that good? Is that good? Yeah. I I feel I feel comfortable. We don't want uh we don't want any of the picnic tables made out of pressuret treated lumber as well. Regular KD lumber. Please, you can preserve it, but don't use pressuret treated. Right.

Okay. Are you good? I I I think so. Okay. So, you're good. I'm good. Um, lot of work on you and I'm planning department. The projects never end on our side. This is a Well, you're going to be the building department's going to be inspecting along the way anyway. So, as long as there's a document that they can follow. Yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. Is there a motion? I think uh so we're at this point we're or did we declare the application complete yet? Yeah, this is

this is final. Um so I'd like to make a motion to uh make a final approval condition upon the list of items that uh the rich and and the developer has uh the applicant has uh agreed upon. I second. Further discussion. No, Mr. Scully. Yes. I Miss Dickerson. I Mr. I. Mr. Kio. I Motion carries. Your names. Thank you all. Good luck. Thanks for having us here. Appreciate it.

Please review the meeting minutes carefully when Eric sends those out. Let's see if anybody showed up. [Music] Is there anyone here uh representing King's Landing? Come down, please. Thank you. Oh, there we go. [Music]

Yep. Good evening everybody. Um, my name is Colton Hill with BDC Group. You can take it right out of there. It'll help. Yeah. An MC. Okay.

Uh, my name is Colton Hill, representing the BDC group. Uh, we're here today to discuss King's Landing 2. Uh, back in the spring, we're in front of this board to discuss some minor site plan amendments, uh, resulting some from some field conditions. Uh, one being a national grid transformer placement. Um, another being the emergency demo of 2129. Um, additionally finalizing the architectural features of the building previously approved. Um, it was at that meeting that uh, Mr. Russ Reeves and the board decided that uh, collectively we meet with the fifth AB community and come up with a resolution for the infill of that location along with the remaining architectural issues. Uh, subsequent meetings were held. Uh I think we've come to a mutual agreement on what we're going to do in place along with the uh architectural features on the building and um with us is is Dria from the Fifth AB community, Barb Nelson. We've all been meeting quite a bit to discuss this and collectively we've come up with a solution which you have in your packets in front of you with the color amendments and I'm going to actually have Barb elaborate a little bit more on the the infill scenario. Um, I'll give it the high level. Um, this building, this project goes back a long time before this board. Um, we had to build around some existing buildings. So, it's created a unique geometry. We've kind of come up with an idea which is going to be a park setting in this area which will have some ornamental um um artwork um architectural features along with some uh seating and amenity space. Um, Barb has it here and I can pass it around or discuss.

Um, no, they they weren't provided for timely. Okay.

Easier to see. [Music] [Music] Thank you, Barb Nelson, um, director at TAP. Um, so we met with the with with Drea, community leadership and, uh, community members and looked at the loss of that little historic building, which we had all fought so long and hard to keep. um and very unfortunately lost. Um the concept you have in front of you is a concept where you know the furniture has to be picked and whatnot. But what's important is that people can come and go from this little courtyard and they can get into the building or into the um into the parking. Um because what was important about that little building there is that it actually had an entrance, a stoop on the street. So we wanted to maintain that sense of activity. Uh we've got some artistic screening and landscape uh to help camouflage the transformer. And um also because uh you know this is a small um you know it's a small trade losing that whole building and and the cost of renovating it. Um, we suggested and BDC uh accepted the responsibility to patch sidewalks along the entire block and uh repair, replace, prune the uh street trees um and add some more in. So, we the the community was was pleased with that. Um Drea is here to just acknowledge that her community has been involved and is on board uh with this process.

Hi, my name is Drea Leansza. I live at uh 2227 Fth Avenue, right down the road from this project. Um and yes, uh we have come up with this idea of how to make King's Landing 2 work uh with the community uh in view of losing two of the four brownstones that we were supposed to have. uh there and there are a few details that need to be worked out with some of the owners of the properties along Fifth Avenue in terms of um how to place the trees and uh exactly what needs happening with the sidewalks. Those are details. We've already talked to some of the owners and they are aware of uh the idea and are in support of it and also are in support of the color choices that uh we were asked to make for the facade of King's Landing 2. Uh and if you have anything else that you'd like to know uh about uh input from the community, I'd be happy to address that. Um so at the last meeting um again this being a a site plan amendment um to the original site plan you know this was the the final condition that kind of came out about it and you know I believe we've collectively worked together um had a lot of discussions and if there's any questions about what we've discussed and you know the solutions we're presenting um any questions for So I is there was there a written document you guys agreed upon or something like that.

This is fantastic.

There's going to be some moving parts as we go along. But it sounds like just from what I'm feeling without a document, you guys are on the same page now. Everybody's We're all good. Yep. And that makes me feel really good. It's in there. It's in there. Yeah.

Yes. And you have a couple of homes that are staying there that are the original that are there. So, you're leaving the facades then exactly the way they are and agreed to the colors and whatnot that have to be done with those. And Correct. We had to rebuild one of the um I call it the angled bays and we agreed to leave it for the rendering that was shown. The colors that were on the original rendering is what we'll painted too. Okay. For the two existing buildings. Correct. that we chose were ones that would be complimementary to the rest of the neighborhood that they will

any other uh questions. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. We'll see if the public has comment. Thank you. Is there any member of the public here to comment on this application? Yeah. Anyone? So, if not, we'll Anybody on Zoom? We'll close the public comment period and we'll open it up for further board discussion. Any any questions, discussion? Um, I think it was awesome. Last time they were here, they kind of broke ice. They said they feel like they finally got somewhere and uh it's nice to see that you guys work together. Fantastic. work together and everybody's I feel a lot of love here. Yeah, it's unusual.

All right. Thank you, sir. Is there a motion? Uh I'd like to move to make this All right. So, I'll bring it back. Yeah, it's So, uh Corporation Council and I were just discussing the the proposed sidewalk that's across the street. Um that drive entrance is actually technically it's like a a street. I think it's crooked alley. Crooked alley. So, you know, according to the zoning code, if you're going to install sidewalks across a drive entrance, they would have to go completely across.

But the question now then becomes, is it a drive entrance or is it actually considered a street? Because if it's considered a street, you might not I believe it's a private drive though. Correct. Isn't it to the parking lot to the nine unit across the street? It wouldn't be a public road, right? There is a public way there. It's called Crooked Alley. And I'm not sure, Forgive me. I'm not totally sure the path, but I'm pretty sure that I think we had to give you an easement actually for the Fifth Avenue there for that entrance. I can't remember what it was for exactly though.

No. Um we we had distinguished an easement for a water line that ran through Kings one. Um we rerouted the water line. So we gave an easement to the city coming down Federal Street. So the only uh remaining uh city property is Laundry Place which is between Kings Landing one and Kings Landing 2. Um and that's where the Municipal Sewer line actually runs underneath. So Crooked Alley was the original that was the original road that ran past Beer Garden and up over that way. But we ended up buying that corner lot through the LDC. We actually purchased that land through the city of Troy. The corner lot was on was on Federal Street side. Correct. Federal and fifth. Correct.

Right. So I guess what I mean I could be wrong, but I I think that I think that that entrance way there is public way that went all the way that connected with maybe laundry place or something like that. I may be naming it wrong and uh uh I'm not totally sure. Okay. You know, as we you know, like like Barb said, there are a few little details to figure out. We're trying to work with, you know, some of the neighbors with, you know, replanting or pruning. Would it be

am I meanable to have a you know condition here that upon engineers review a final plan be submitted before we actually do the improvements or some something to that effect. Here's the the short of it is I don't know that it's necessarily required for you to do that. It's just that if you're going to install if we're going to consider this a drive entrance then by the zoning code you're required to connect a sidewalk across the whole length of it. Okay. So like for the um for both entryways if you're proposing new sidewalks they have to go across the entire Okay. The sidewalk would have to go down to road level, right? I mean it would Yeah. You would have to make it ADA. It'd have to ramp and have a curve cut essentially. Yeah, there there's actually a a granite curb there. It's just been paved over.

Oh. So, it might have been a sidewalk at some point in time, but the curb is still there. So, is this a code issue more than a planning? It is. It is in a zoning code. Yeah. So, if they didn't want to put if they're proposing to install sidewalks, like essentially, if you're going to do it, we got to do it the right way. Okay. So, we can approve it and then they just got to comply with the code. I would probably I would probably ensure that if you're going to approve it, I would probably make sure that that's part of your approvals condition. Okay. So, make a condition that you know that the um uh the entrance way the final design of the entrance way uh conform to the city engineers requirements or something. We can do that. We can do that. Yeah.

Okay. Thank you. try. Uh, so we have pending motion, right? And do you want to add that motion? I think it seems like we have to start over, I guess. All right, let's So you withdraw your motion? I withraw. So, I'd propose a a motion to call for completeness and a final approval of this conditioned upon uh the code approved crosswalks and sidewalks going through the entrance of crooked laundry place. I guess not laundry place. So, this would be

it's called laundry place here. All sidewalks will comply with the laundry place. satisfaction of the city engineer. I think it's C crooked alley. Crooked alley bridge alley or or we don't even have to name it. I mean it's it's the it's the fifth avenue entrance way. They have to they have to you know adhere to the code for crossing a street or a alley right with their sidewalks and design in accordance with the city engineers specs. Okay. Second. A second discussion. Uh Mr. Skully I Miss Dickerson I Mr. Shufeld I Peter Kio I I motion carries unanimous.

Thank you. Good luck. Thank you. So [Music] is anyone here representing uh the 310 Spring Avenue project? Well, we'll defer to the end of the the meeting, but uh

street I think I'm [Music] What's wrong?

It's a public way. That's our

84th Street. Come on down. Hello. Good evening. Hi. Um, my name is Brendan Tatio. I'm here on behalf of Mi Studio, uh, representing the owner, Amayi Elman. I have a description that, um, Mi Studio has left me with, um, kind of an overview of the project. Do you want me to read through it or how should I proceed? Pleasure. We've already heard this before, right? Yeah.

Anybody need further explanation? [Music] Any questions for the applicant? Um, wasn't there a concern the last time they were here about a fire the firewall? Is this this one? No, this is No, that's that's 189 1818. Okay, never mind. I think the only thing they had was the uh the stair tread in the rightway or something. Yeah. Right. And that was approved by historic fire marshall and the city engineer. Okay. And we've determined where your garbage is going to be and within the

I know that was discussed in a previous meeting. It's going to be I'm not sure where it is on the plan. Does anybody know it? U I believe though that the garbage is to be stored in corrals that are inside the courtyard. They'll be wheeled through the carriage house to the alley for pickup. Just a moment. Let me pull it up. Other questions for the applicant?

Uh do we have a picture of how the back of this is going to look when it's done someplace here? I know there's a rear elevation and there's a couple of 3D views through the courtyard. I don't I'm talking about the wall on the alley the of the historic building, the carriage house. Uh there is a rear elevation of it. Yeah. I'm trying to find it

towards the end. Uh you'll note that there's uh between the carriage house and the main structure that there's a provision for garbage right here. Any other questions? Assuming you've gotten your flow calcs on from DPU. Yes, that was received signed off by DPU.

Yes, that's it. Okay. Thank you. We'll see if the public has any comment. Any Is there any member of the public here to comment on this application? [Music] No one. Okay. Thank you. Uh any further board discussion? Is there a motion? So this would be the final and they would come back for a hearing next or is this final? Final this is final. Approval. So uh I make a motion that we approve the site site plan as final. speak.

I make a motion that we approve the site plan for final and let them continue with what they got to do. Second. All done. Second. Discussion. Mr. Skully. I. M. Dixon. I. Mr. Shufeld. I. Mr. Kio. I.

Motion passes unanimous. Yes. [Music] Proceed. [Music] Are we taking a recess?

Can we uh Is it official? Can we uh act on new business Spring Avenue without the applicant being here? Why not? No. No, he's before us. We don't do that. Can you Can you Can you say that on the record? They're going to have an issue because the school opens in a couple weeks. I mean, I can go check my email to see if they reached out. Oh, yes. Because they got their ZBA approval, right? They did get they did get their variances. I I don't know. Called three times. What did they come back? He made three calls. I mean, like Peter Mench asked for them to step up three times.

Oh. Yeah, Peter, we just don't do that. Um, [Music] yeah, maybe they don't. Why don't I go check on you? I'm afraid I'm afraid they might not understand,

right? It's possible they don't understand. I thought the CBA was the big celebration when they got they might have thought they were all done. They were [Music] We will [Music] ask a good policy [Music] on Zoom. React on Zoom. They can call in. They could still [Music] know their numbers. [Music]

Thank you, sweetie. He's trying to sweeten me up. What are we taking? Two minute recess. I mean that way. All right. So, we will take a two minute recess, three minute recess and resume. Thank you. This tiny home. over. You're not going to be able to sleep. You voted for it. I'm blame it on you. You voted for It's over.

Suck it up. [Music]

You don't [Music] know. [Music] I think that's [Music] [Music] [Music] That's number [Music] Yeah. Yeah. Oh jeez. We have to do 10 10 11 and we still have to do uh Uncle Sam.

I see Benny was over at the Nick Arena Nick Nick Park. Oh yeah. Yeah. [Music] All right. Am I being a thorn in your side? Huh? Am I being a thorn in your side? I think that was good. Took a little too long. Could have went a little faster. Well, they didn't want want to agree with what I wanted.

I thought I thought we were like gas. Well, I couldn't tell them that I wanted buildings there until they got their PDD. But then when I found out that the PDD is like, no, that's the least amount of buildings we can have to make this feasible. It's like, well, it's too many. It was over 100 original. They listened to your They listened to all your concessions. No, they gave me twice as many parking spots for my Christmas party. Remember? Then they had to cut that down.

The block since early winter, early spring, late winter. [Music] That was one of the first projects I think to go. They're not changing any exterior. Well, I hope it's I'd rather be wrong. They might think they're done. I hope I hope they I'd rather be wrong about the way I'm thinking about this project than be right and it be

I think sometimes you have to look at say nothing but here they had some tiny house you TSL show

what level it cost somebody I wouldn't be surprised body that [Music] I might be right. might have a conflict. I mean, a lot of

stuff. There's something there's also going to be 55 plus right next to

then you got that piece of that's 275 and they got their approval for five stories because they told them that it's not feasible for them to build if they do go up five stories. So they got that I don't want to go down that road one your favorite not Olympus. So they got their five stories really and they said they couldn't build it unless they got five stories because they're anticipating that the brownstone cleanup is going to be anywhere between 1.2 two or three to 1.5 million signs.

Hey Peter, want to call back? Uh, seeker. I don't think we did. Oh, I don't think we ever denied. Use the I'm not sure if your mics are on just so you're aware like we are tell us now the good news is that I go to recess we'll go we'll come back uh in session

come back in session Please hang your gall. So Julie doing 10 101 still got [Music] the new business first. the Yeah. 101 Second Avenue. Yeah, that's just a presentation, right?

Well, who's left? Uh 101. Oh, I forgot that. Let's Let's do the garage first then.

Okay. We're going to we're going to handle 15 20 15 to 25 Fourth Street. Is anyone here uh on that project? Come on down. Please identify yourself for the record. They're [Music] stuck here. [Music] They said they pay attention. [Music]

There we go. The rest of my crew is slowly filtering in. They thought we were going to be the uh the next application, not this one, but I will get started on their behalf. Um, so uh for the record, Joe Dann with the Environmental Design Partnership here on behalf of RJ Valenic Companies and their application for the redevelopment of the Uncle Sam's parking garage. Uh we're here tonight for an initial uh sketch plan review with the planning board. We have had a public forum meeting uh a few months ago in which the project was introduced to the city and the residents of the city uh as well as several council members and and various uh uh members of the various boards and committees of the city. Um we had a pretty good response at that point in time. Uh we've continued to develop the plans and evolve them to what we're going to show today. Uh we're simply looking to uh introduce our concept to the board. uh obtain some questions uh some comments, any concerns from the planning board as well as uh staff comments, get them out onto the record uh so that we can continue to advance our plans and the uh the next level which would be a full set of detailed plans and preliminary review and approval uh of the application. So I think everyone is familiar with the location. Uh this is the location of the former Uncle Sam's parking garage that was torn down uh probably about three years ago now. Uh now sits there as a vacant lot. Um, we are looking to redevelop that with a 195 unit uh multi-story uh apartment complex that will uh essentially take up the majority of the parking garage land as well as

some additional lands that were acquired from CDTA, giving us uh basically a square lot, rectangular lot at that location. Uh so what we are looking at is a first floor parking garage with small lobby areas that connect up to a uh second, third, fourth, and fifth story on the second story above the parking garage. And that's generally what you're looking at on this layout. Uh you can see the uh Eshaped outline of the building in gray and then you have the green area. uh the U-shaped going inside the E that is a outdoor uh recreational space uh that will have uh walkways, patios, sports courts, uh various recreation amenity space for the residents of the building itself. Uh as I said, we are looking at a 195 units and we're proposing 237 parking spaces in the garage. And when we go through our numbers and our unit breakdowns of the number of bedrooms, uh there are 237 bedrooms in the apartment complex and we're providing 237 spaces within the parking garage on the first floor. Uh not to mention there's ancillary parking and various parallel parking locations throughout this area of the city. First floor parking garage plan. This has been provided. Uh the bottom of the page faces streets right here.

Fourth Avenue, street, fourth street.

Fourth street. Uh on the left is Folton and on the top is Third. We have an entrance into the parking garage on Third Street as well as an entrance on Fourth. to the north, which would be the right. Uh we also are introducing green space in that area and that will be used as a uh outdoor dog park for the residents of this community. Um we have various elevation views of the project from different uh locations. This one's taken uh over from a Starbucks island maybe near uh kind of the Sea Smoke restaurant. You can see the outline. My laser. I can't do that on here. Here you go. This is the new building here in the center of the screen. Uh here's another artistic rendering of looking looking south on fourth. This is the building location. The building elevation first story parking garage. Four stories of residential units above that. This is looking at an aerial view from the west or third street. Uh this is the second story which has the outdoor amenity and recreational space. A a concept of what that may look like. Um but again it is our intent to have various aspects we're showing here plants grass sports courts outdoor grills outdoor kitchens you know it very nice amenities for this area uh of the town and really for any residential uh apartment community that I've seen

building elevations. This is the main facade of the building on fourth. [Music] This is looking from the northwest on the top image and from the southwest on the bottom image. Bottom image we're looking at the intersection of third and Fulton looking up at the building. And on the top view we're looking say this would be closer to like dinosaur barbecue area side of dinosaur barbecue looking over at the site there. uh some artistic renderings of the courtyard and some of the private amenity spaces located on different floors of the facility. [Music] So that is a very brief introduction of the project. Again, like I said, we're looking the the main principle, we're looking at 195 unit building with 237 parking spaces, a uh fourstory building over top of the parking garage, essentially taking the entire block and redeveloping the entire block from the curbs uh inward. And again, we're here for sketch plan review. So, we're looking for any comments uh this board may have as well as staff at this point in time. I will point out that we did have a workshop meeting uh with various

well, excuse me. Um we had a meeting with various agencies at the town, a workshop meeting. I think uh I know Eric and Chris were there and there must have been 20 people in the room uh from from different uh building department, planning department, all different agencies. we went over, we created a a large list of items. Uh then we submitted for this concept review just to uh get it in front of the board, introduce it to the board, uh reintroduce it to any of the public and see what if any comments we have at this point in time so we can continue to move it forward. Thank you.

I have a question. Have you benefit from HRC at all? We have not.

Okay. Um, can we go back to your streetscape on Fton or fourth? One of those two. That's fourth. Third, Ariel. Okay, that's what I'm looking at. This is fourth. Right. So I guess you know when you go for HRC I don't know if they would be commenting this way but sometimes the elevation of the top of the buildings you know activating them in a different height on each one gives it the idea that there's more than one big building. These kind of look a little bit like college suites up on Sixth Avenue. Um where they they're you know it's almost like identifiable for each building. So you have Corbals height differences and maybe a foot, two feet, three feet, whatever. But you know to that to me this looks like that might be something they would suggest. Um the

we should the bay window is that is that a bay window? Can't tell. Yeah. I don't know if B is the right. Some things are sent back and some things come out. Is that what we're doing? Yes. Okay. [Music] Okay. [Music] Yeah, my name is Steve McKenzie. So happy to clarify any questions you may have. As far as the uh character of the building, we followed the zoning guidelines

in terms of scale and massing and we modified the current version from the previous version we had a couple months ago in response to some of the comments. So your comments in fact are on the money. What we've actually done is step back some of the upper fords. It's a little hard to see in elevation, but you can see how we broke the uh plane of the front facade, right? So, the top four units in between the larger volumes that are closer to the street actually step back and have a private roof terrace. I don't know if you can see that with the plantings on the edge on the top floor.

And then uh the floor below that where you have balconies, the balconies kind of do the same thing where it breaks up the scale of the building and the massing. So, one of the challenges uh we always have in this kind of setting as architects is balancing what I call designing from the inside out with outside in. And it's really about balancing constraints. So, zoning is obviously one of those. You get to set the right height and obviously the client's agenda, budget, building codes, etc. are certainly part of that too. So part of this is reconciling the fact that it's a housing development which I think will be a tremendous asset for the town by the way probably the most valuable contribution you can make for this type of site in terms of use and location. So some of what we have to do is balance the uh character from the inside out so to speak in terms of the use and the fact that it's housing with what you're saying about suitability for the context. So we're very sensitive to what's suitable for the context which is why we've articulated the volumes and broken them up further with the balconies buried them in terms of the materials which are traditional timeless materials which likewise is sympathetic. So the overall effect I think and hope you'll agree is that it's a good balance in terms of let's say being uh what's the right word uh having a certain level of integrity if you will in terms of what the building's about

balancing that with the context. So we feel it is sympathetic in terms of the scale, the materials, the colors. The fenistration uh picks up on the zoning request for vertical proportions on windows. The windows have typically a two over two proportion on the glazing, which is a very classic uh Italian kind of approach. And there's other things I can digress on, but I'm kind of digressing on your question. the challenge that you have uh with regard to exterior design on this building. It's like, you know, you're you're on Falton Street, you're right in front of one of the most elegant buildings that's ever been built. Yes. Yes.

And you know, there's no way I mean to to take ideas from that building and put it to yours are very, very difficult. Right. But then on Fourth Street, you have a a different type of building that that's on the other side, right? that does have different elevations and the kind of old storefronts where merchants might have lived above. Um. Right. So it, you know, it's a little bit, you know, it's a challenge for you. Yeah. And that's that's why we varied the edge at the front. Yeah.

And set back the top four. The height does vary between the volumes within certain limits. I think the uh larger section is where we have the heavier uh in table at the tops of the buildings which are typically the brick buildings. Those are taller may be difficult to perceive depending on where you stand elevation but that is a couple feet higher than some of the other sections clad in the Hardy panel. The zoning racks are pretty restrictive as far as materials. There's not too many options they allow which is fine. They're good choices as far as we're concerned. interesting to see what the HRC says because

you know you this is definitely a prominent thing you know and you know when you come down river with the Uncle Sam garage gone it really shows an entrance way to downtown with the Frier building sitting there so prominent um y so I mean that's a challenge

yep I think uh one of the comments from that neighborhood meeting had to do with the uh the landscape and the greenscape. We did add quite a bit on the third street side. We added some vertical trellis treatment on that edge of the building. We addressed I think the comment somebody had about a graffiti wall magnet or something if I remember right where we had a blank wall. So, we've changed the character on that which uh Joe had up. I don't know if you picked up on that, but we're showing pergolas on that edge of the resident courtyard for shade structures. Uh I'm I'm uh one of those people that needs to shade when I'm outside. So the simplest way to address that is wear a hat of course, but

hats are not always available. That it's definitely direct sun. Yes. into that. That's very Yeah, that's a tough west exposure, too. So,

but part of that also is uh the other thing we think is really important from uh a resident standpoint is the the virtues of light and fresh air. So we made a point of having a lot of glass taking advantage of the view opportunities whatever you may think of the views looking across Chamberlain Park in the river water's tremendous for creating a sense of place. So simply having views of water is really magical in terms of creating that uh asset. So every unit uh to the extent we could is going to have views of the river probably 70% of the total and there's some ways we've done that with how the units are designed the inside it's what's called a skip stop where you uh on an upper story have that view opportunity every unit has a balcony you probably notice that looking at it that works to our advantage in terms of how we finesse the scale of it and I'll come back to that a bit in a second if you let me dig digress a bit more, but the balconies are all sized about 8 by 13 1/2 ft. They're all sized large enough so somebody can dine out on a balcony. I I I'm a big fan of uh alfresco dining if you I think food tastes better outdoors. Does depend on the food of course, but they're intentionally sized. So, people will benefit from that. Take advantage of that. And uh the other thing that comes back to what I was saying about balancing design from the inside out with outside in is I think the building actually reflects that. The three sides really the four sides that are on the perimeter facing the other buildings downtown do take on more of a traditional kind of articulation in terms of scale is sympathetic, but we're not trying to recreate or duplicate something that's historically accurate because that would be inappropriate. I I think every preservationist I've

ever worked with on a project has always said the last thing you should do is try and replicate the historic character. You should try and take a backseat to it in terms of let's say the presence or the impact, but you should allow the historic building to take front stage. It's no problem to pay homage to it though. Yeah, that's right. And and be sympathetic. And that's really what I'm trying to say. So we've made a point of being sympathetic in terms of scale uh fenestration, proportion, materials, color, etc. And uh so anyway, that's just a few quick comments. So happy to answer more questions or questions for Joe.

Peter, can I ask question? May I ask May I ask a question? Sure. Of course. The architect, are those um the brick pillars? Uhhuh. Um, are the brick color pillars, are those connected on the backside to the building or are they freestanding?

They're they're structurally uh functional if that's what you mean. They support the outer edge of the building, which is the most practical and cost-effective way to do that. We did that uh just so everybody's aware, but we followed the zoning guidelines in terms of encroachment. Frankly, I was surprised to see that. And I commend you, by the way, on the zoning regs. They're very thorough and clear and complete, I think. But that said, there are some good things uh that we found in that. That was one of them that allowed the encroachment into the rightway up to 12 feet. We didn't take advantage of the full 12 feet. We're really encroached enough to have the balconies and also have the projections on every unit that we can wrap it on three sides of glass. That's a way to get light further into the interior on an apartment. So, and also the the zoning Gregs do say that colonades are acceptable as part of the encroachment. So, I I thought that was great. Uh for any of you that have been to Bolognia, Italy are familiar with Bolognia. I brought a picture if you want to see one. Probably everybody every building in the city certainly the city center has colonades arcades everywhere. It's fantastic and besides providing shade and hot weather, it provides weather protection and it's uh you know it's it's a UNESCO feature of the city uh revered obviously by the Italians and it's it's such a pleasure to walk around in that kind of environment. What I liked about that in terms of your zoning is it's it's a a nod to the pedestrian, if you will, and doing something that accommodates the pedestrian in a good way, not always simply accommodating the car. And we understand that there's some concerns about the columns adjacent to the uh I'll call it the curb. And I did double

check the uh dimensions. Uh Eric, for your benefit, uh for the most part, uh we exceed the dimension, let's say, from the curb to the face of the column for what a car door would be. A car door typically is 30 to 40 in depending on size. And along Forest Street, the tightest spot we have is right at the entry where it's 3 feet from face of column to face the curb, but that's an area where I wouldn't hopefully see people parking because that's kind of a drop off point as I would see it. So, uh, the majority of the columns are 4 foot 10, something like that, along four street. So, if that's a concern, it's not an issue as far as, uh, cars of people being able to walk by. I also noticed in your, uh, parking and sidewalk brags, I I happen to reference that. Just double checking some of the zoning requirements, and the, uh, parking sidewalk brags do require a minimum three- foot clear at all times for a sidewalk. So we have that not only on the outside but inside between the column and the building is typically uh about 5 foot n 5 foot 10 clear between the column and the building. So it's very comfortable in terms of accommodating the pedestrian. I'd love it if uh like you see in Bolognia and you should visit, like I said, if you haven't. Food's great. But I think it's also an opportunity for other kinds of public activities like uh flea markets or book fairs, whatever. Again, you see that in some of the cities that have the arcades like that. So, we think it's an opportunity and a nice amenity. Uh there are a few spots where we are closer in terms of the column. The other is at the entry on Fulton Street. I don't know if you can pull that up. This is on fourth fourth. Yeah, it's it's a little later.

Yeah, the over right hand one is the entran Fulton. So there we are within a foot of the face of the column and the curb. For some reason, the depth of the sidewalk on Fton Street is much shallower. I'm not sure why that's the case, but the city is certainly entitled to do that because it's your rightway. So, I think we'd have to have a conversation about how you view uh drop off at the entry for people taking Uber or taxis, whatever. But I would hope that wouldn't be used for a parking spot because that's really the only spot where uh it's tight. We can always pull back the facade a bit if that that's a concern, but otherwise, I think it's actually pretty comfortable in terms of the the uh let's say the clearance issue for car doors, etc. for what that's worth. Other questions on the columns or materials, etc.

Yeah, if you were just kind of making a pros and cons of the columns in the sidewalls, what what are the pros and cons there?

Well, the pros the pros are uh it actually allows us to better leverage, let's say, the site potential. any site we ever look at, we always want to think about what's the highest and best use for a site. You know, it's hard for me to think of housing, any other use being better than housing on on the site for really pretty obvious reasons. Uh I I like to talk a lot about sustainable lifestyle. I don't think people talk enough about living in a walkable circumstance, and to me, that's one of the best things about what this project will do for the people who live here. It's going to take some time, I think, for that to take root and to really blossom in terms of what it does for the downtown. But if you think about 237 bedrooms and potentially that many residents, uh, you know, that's going to be a significant benefit to the downtown. And uh the other thing I I want to touch on too is I recognize that in a perfect world, everybody would prefer to have commercial on the ground floor, but we all know there's quite a bit of empty space that people have to do of downtown. So economically and for uh other reasons, it just wasn't realistic for the project. And some of that was true with balancing the uh need to accommodate the parking that the residents are rightly going to need. My wife and I live in downtown Burlington, Vermont, right on Battery Street, if you know where that is, right by the waterfront and I live above my office, so I have a short commute, which is great. But uh and one of the things I think residents will love about this location is looking out the window at the streetscape and the activities like watching a different uh sort of reality TV show. You know, whether you're watching somebody parallel parks or you watch the people walking by or the dogs, our dog loves to sit in the window. It's hard to pull them away sometimes because

for him that's that's like the perfect circumstance. So that's another virtue of we think how this is going to benefit the resident as well as the uh the downtown in terms of what that can be. But the big part is really the sustainable lifestyle. living in a circumstance where you can walk to whatever your particular daily shopping need is. And I think likewise that might take some time to to uh flush out. We did the project with Betty and Cring at 547 River Street, which I know they've just opened up for uh housing units. Some of those robots, a nice mix of sizes. There's a grocery store across the street, which is great. I think that's walkable. I'm not aware of another that's probably within walking distance, but I could be wrong. But same for drug stores. But again, I think some of that will start to develop in a response to this kind of a project. So I I think there's so many good things sort of come out of something like this. So uh again, those are some of the the benefits since you asked the question that I received for the project. I was taking advantage of the question talk about more than columns of course but I do think it's going to create an attractive better environment for the p pedestrian from that standpoint is the

microphone please specific benefit is you can take it out of the for the pedestrians themselves um having a covered area during inclement weather which does occur here in upstate New York quite a bit. You know, for certain times when there's the farmers market, there's an area as people are walking down the street, this gives them an opportunity to get out of the elements uh from at least the rain coming down on them during events like that. So, that's a significant benefit this type of approach. Will there be lighting in these corridors?

Yeah, I would probably see if you can speak. I'm sorry. The zoning does require minimum 16 ft height for the sophet in the walkway. So that's actually a good thing in terms of lighting because it allows you with one fixture to get pretty good spread on the light. Doesn't take much for exterior lighting that takes very little to be affected. And I I could envision perhaps some wall-mounted sconces down near the sidewalk level. We haven't really looked at that yet, but I do think lighting is a key uh a key factor, a key asset how buildings uh present themselves. So, I think a nice wall wash on the brick at the uh say just above the first floor really be a nice effect to uh especially at night. So, it's also a security safety perception that people have. So, I'm not sure what the street light coverage is on on fourth and Fton at third, but uh having the soft light would certainly be a plus from that standpoint, that perception. Um, I'll just say that some of the staff concerns about the columns

um were about uh access to underlaying infrastructure under the sidewalks as well as concerns about uh vehicular uh self piling. Yeah. Um and then uh what was the other one? I think those were those were two big ones. So, if you're going to if you're going to go forward with that, I would probably just want to make sure that you're sitting down with the right um city official that knows about some of the the lines, electric playing and things like that that are that are underneath the sidewalks that might require easements if that were to move forward. Yeah, we share that. We're waiting to get the information. Until we know what's actually there, it's hard to

hard to say what what would be appropriate. So, we're aware of it, though. Okay, that's a have completed a comprehensive look at the underground utilities. Uh we've had them all marked out, had drone flights. There are a lot of them and we're working through that mapping process right now to be able to understand them as we move forward. So Rick, would that need an easement then, right? They're going to for the column itself. So it's going to be encroaching onto the rightway. So you usually there's an encroachment permit that's required for that sort of thing. Um I don't know. I mean I think to this level probably

maybe maybe an easement. I I don't know exactly. We'll have to look at that. Probably bonding during the construction period. Oh yeah. The uh are you going to run heating tubes in the sidewalk? That'd be nice. Especially since you've got the columns there. I had the same question. I'm like well it's covered right? So the snow is not hitting it. No, it's ice. I know. I know. It's expensive. Very expensive. And you know, I think as long as the owner can deal with maintaining the snow, I don't know how much you got last winter, but it's not part of the the plan at this point. It's it's expensive.

Steve, honestly, I've been over here looking at your website and, you know, I found the Pavilion Grand Hotel. Is is that similar in style to this? Yeah, I don't know. It's, you know, uh I mean it's similar in a sense that it's a housing uh type accommodation of commercial on the ground floor, you know. Uh so yeah, I guess you could say materials similar. I mean, because I I obviously think the the photos are a little bit nicer than the renders. My opinion,

that's usually the case. Yeah, it's it's a similar project. That's true in some respects. Yeah. But we do plan on using like I said traditional materials full thickness brick. Uh again we follow the zoning guidelines for what we could use. So the board and baton is a very traditional material as well. And we did add some detail in terms of the corners uh on all parts of the building and uh window trim headers. Again, the 202 is a classic Italian type format for uh handling the penistration. So, other questions? Um, I have a question. Is your parking going to be ground level?

Yeah, street level, sidewalk. Street level. So, everything we see on the bottom with the windows and everything, that's that's parking there. Yeah. It's actually going to be a a grill, a wire grill. Our intent is for that to become a green wall and have uh vines grow up in that over time. So that again it adds greenery to the city, but it also is a way to screen parking. But the idea is for that to be open, so it's naturally ventilated as far as the parking that's under the building. Okay. So you've got one way in, one way out. You're going to have two.

There's two entries. There's one off of third at the middle of the site that Joe just showed. That's two-way traffic in and out. and one off of uh Fourth Avenue towards the end by the So you have it north. Yeah. Is that that's a holiday? Fourth Street is one towards the hotel, right? sense from a traffic standpoint, you know, we got we do have some flexibility on that, but a lot of it is from, you know, from a civil standpoint, making sure the grades work out for access in and out.

So, the middle of third is actually ideal for where we have the for elevation because we also have to think about accessibility. So, the the ADA says that you have to have at least one accessible entry at at usually at the front door. Not all of them have to be accessible, but of course they like that. So that's our accessible uh so-called public entry and visitor entry is the front door and fourth street. And that's actually uh the same elevation as where the parking entry occurs on the third street side. So uh the one part of the site that's a little more challenging is the southwest corner which is Fulton and third which is actually five feet higher. that as you progress from uh the northwest corner along third up to that corner of the site. So, we're trying to balance what is the right parking elevation to allow for accessibility for entries as well as make sense for the grade for the parking entries. So, what Joe and I just described makes really the most sense from that standpoint.

So, what percentage of the ground level is going to be parking? All of it. All but uh and you pull up the uh probably about 95%. So there's no no commercial space in here at all. No, there is uh coffee shop. It's kind of hard to see on the ground floor, but there's a coffee shop. You point to the Joe. You see uh Yeah, I have to be a college graduate.

How to do that? So there's yeah, there is a coffee shop that'll have its own outside entry off the fourth and remains to be seen whether that's going to be a tenant or operated by the owner of the building, but it's an important amenity for the residents because I I think of food and dining as a catalyst for socialization and building community. So we felt that's really an important part of it. Accessible from inside or just from outside? Yeah, both. How big is it? What's the square footage of it? Oh, it's probably let's see uh about say 8 800 square feet.

Can Can you show me where it is there? [Music] Yep. So that uh I think whether it's owned by the the landlord or whether it's a tenant. Again, I don't this is up to uh the owner whether they allow public access, but I could see that making a lot of sense again from a social standpoint. Is that the area of the main entrance also?

Yeah, that right by the main entry. We also have the mail room by the main entry. Uh that's another social connection opportunity where people pick up packages or their mail. So, we now have a package room. Package lockers are actually bigger than the mailbox area because that's what everybody is getting these days is, you know, stuff from Is that

is that the only pedestrian entrance? No, there's a that's the so-called front door. There's an entry off of Fulton. So, the areas where you see the metal panel, the bay windowshaped metal panel, that's meant to be a visual cue for an entry point for folks. So, that's true on uh Four Street in the center of the block and it's true on Fulton. The one Nothing on Third, excuse me.

Nothing on Third. No, other than we did add a a stairway up to the amenity terrace for the fire department. They requested that for access to the building. So we otherwise have access obviously in all three street sides for the fire department. The north side is actually same level as again the parking level. So it's on accessible but that's where people would come and go for the dog park. That's where we're going to have a pet spa which is a very popular feature. for uh for people. We want to encourage people to have pets and dogs especially in the building. So on the north I'm sorry on the north side Uhhuh.

Um there was a dispute with CDTA a while back and is that a paper street between that and the hotel? I'd have to defer to the owner and dean on that but so we are working with CDTA finalizing all that. Okay. Oh, it is. So, it it is done now. So, that is they have now acquired that as part of the property that they're for this. Good. So, that would back up right to where the hotel parking and street that they have that goes from third to fourth.

That that is actually that street you were talking about is on this property is that is in that property. The dog park is going to be that location. Are you going to put a limit to the size of your dogs that you're going to have in there? Yes, there will be some size limitations within the building. Uh I don't know where we've ended up on the management plan yet and where that'll be. How how far along are you in the project right now? I mean, microphone, please. Yeah, sorry.

We've completed schematics, but uh one of my favorite analogies for architects don't often talk enough about what they do or how they do it. You know, it may be a bit of a mystery to people, but we think of ourselves like a prism. So information that gets refracted whatever color it may be or type it may be if it doesn't get refracted by ourselves as a as a virtual prism then what comes out of it won't reflect that particular input. So I like getting comments from people like I like getting input. I don't view constraints as a problem because that's all part of how we refract and combine as best we can all of that into a solution. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I think that ties together. You go through the process. What's the time frame for construction? Winter is Well, it depends on the approval process like most projects. I think that you know, how far along are you? We've completed schematics. Yeah. Yeah. We haven't started construction documents or Thank you.

We have more to do with design development certainly. Uh if I might um there was concern from the fire department about the use of museum way or for the area location where the dog park is. Um they are concerned about accessing the southern portion of best bust. So I would just I would say to re I recommend to reach out to Chief Behinger, Deputy Chief Behinger and have discussions with him. He had said that it wasn't like a it wasn't a um a full stop, but you would probably really need to coordinate with him to make sure that fire department could access the best western south.

You know, are they thinking of they want truck access or simply personnel access? I didn't get that that far with it. Like I think they're very used to having truck access. So if that was going to be rescended then, you know, there'd have to be some sort of compromise.

Yeah. Every building, the way it's designed and constructed is a function of its circumstance. But obviously, you can build a building if you build it a certain way where you only have access in one side. I mean, look at New York City or much of Troy. Most buildings have only access from let's say the front or the street side. So that's why you build it with the appropriate protection. So in our case, we have access of three sides. So it's not an issue even though it's a wood building. And I think as far as the uh the hotel, I couldn't comment on what type of construction that is, whether it's the type of circumstance that requires access on that site or not. Uh but I do think there's probably room to accommodate that.

Yeah, I I think department I know we sat with them a little bit at our pre-construction meeting, not our pre-construction, at our workshop meeting. Um I don't believe this was brought up during that that time, but maybe it's something we we can certainly meet with them and and go over the details and see what we can do. Yeah, we had, you know, a staff meeting um internally and um it came up in them uh in that meeting. Um but again, he didn't say that this was like a full stop or anything like that. He just said that this would have to be sort of navigated around to ensure that they could get um adequate fire safety and protection to the southern side. No, we will definitely take that into account as we continue to work through this this next steps in our process.

Is your dog park going to be fenced in? All fenced in? Yes.

Anything else, folks? Go ahead, sir. Excuse me. Microphone.

I know people always have comments about trash. sure heard the conversation about the earlier project. So, the plan for our building is to have trash shoots and recycling shoots in the center of the building. It's uh there'll be a room uh right by the elevators in that part of the building. So there'll be compactors for both in the parking level and then mobile carts that are used to wheel out either trash or recycling whenever the truck comes by to pick it up because dumpsters are always a nightmare for any type of project. You want it close for convenience, but you don't want it close because of the smell. So this is this is the best way we've seen so far for multif family to manage trash and recycling. So that is our plan. So, that'll be carts again that are wheeled out of the room on the parking level probably out on the uh I'm guessing probably the third street side where there be a pulloff lane for trucks. So, just so that was clear.

Okay. Yep. All right, sir. Thank you very much. Thank you. Appreciate it. Look forward to seeing you back. Thank you. Uh chair, um we do have the applicant for Sacred Heart on Zoom. I don't know if that's sufficient. Yes, for Sacred Heart 310 at Spring Street. Oh, we do. We don't usually do it, but I think this is this is a it's so simple. We don't usually do it, but this is really a technical uh uh review. It's where there's no changes whatsoever to the outside of the building. So, I think

obviously there must have been mis some misunderstanding. I think you should allow it. Okay. Thank you. Yes, sir. Yeah. Can you hear me? I'm sorry. This is Tom with TSL. Sorry, I didn't realize there was another part. You have something else? Yeah. Okay. Hang on, Mr. Styles. Okay. applications. Couldn't hear you. The I was just standing up here. I thought my other We're hoping this is going to be quick.

Sketch plan. Someone is asking if you're taking public. Come on down. Okay, then we have to tell TSL. Oh, I got it. Uh he's on hold. Are you commenting on just one we just talked about? Okay. Yes. Go ahead, please.

So, my name is Mike Fusco. I'm one of the owners of the Best Western Franklin Plaza, also an apartment building on 24th Street um for the project, but I do have one concern that you guys did bring up is that I also in my deed do have a rightaway on Museum Place um that is on my deed and in my survey that you know we are not looking to lose also. And I know back when we first got the hotel that the fire department was also big on it. So I'm so glad you brought that up because that is one of our concerns also, but it is in our deed and it is in our surveys for um the Best Western. Okay. Thank you. So the owners will take note of that, I'm sure.

Good evening, uh Janet, and I'll I'll try to be brief. Um I my office overlooked this site for more than 20 years. I know it very very well and you are starting at the wrong point of discussion about this project because this site is an incredible opportunity for the city and what you're seeing is mediocrity. Any project that does not you any project that does not include plenty of commercial and public space at the ground level on the street for this site is a mistake. You need that. Not only that, the gentleman who was telling us so many things for such a long time here said that you know all preservationists do not want you to copy the historic buildings. I am a preservationist for more than 50 years and I would agree with that. However, you also do not want to do an homage to it and you don't want to be in the background. You have absolutely great architecture in downtown Troy and I'm going to recall an Italian as well here because the great architect Carlo Sculpa said you need to you have an obligation to the masterpiece. What that means is that when you have great architecture, when you have a great urban core like Troy, you need to do the best new architecture that you can possibly do for that city and for that space. And you're not seeing that.

Thank you.

Hello again. Uh Steven Maples. I'll be quick about it. Um basically to build upon the last point um that the not having ground floor retail commercial something community spaces um would would certainly be a liability to the city. It would this would be a total dead dead zone. It would just it would kill all of the street life making it less safe making it less vital. All of the things that we talk about in our comprehensive plan this would harm those. So this so in when we're talking about what kind you know how we're going to guide this process moving forward um I I I think it is a high responsibility of this of this board to insist that that ground floor be activated through commercial through retail through whatever it there's got to be people moving in and out. Um that is the only way that we're going to revitalize that those stretches that you know it's it's currently pretty dead because there's not anything there. um this is the only way that we do that. Um further I'll just note that the parking regulations um do talk about the necessity I think it's in 20 285 what is it 285 69 it covers that the entrances to off streetet parking should be on side streets they're both now on the main streets of of the site so that is a just a very basic dimensional problem uh on its face. Uh but the most important thing is must be ground ground for retail commercial community space something otherwise um this is a tragedy in the making.

Thank you.

How you guys doing tonight? Matthew Lee here. South Troy. Um, so I'm just thinking to myself, that was a former parking garage. We're kind of building the same thing just with extra steps here a little bit, you know, with the first floor parking garage and then five over ones on top of that. It's kind of pretty stereotypical to what you see in new construction. But I got some questions here just about traffic circulation and parking. So what if any traffic analysis was submitted to show the impact of 200 units on Fourth Street, River Street, Fulton, and downtown intersections? Um, did the developer, the owner provide any traffic impact studies with the projected peak hours, AM PM? Talking like 9:00 am, 5:00 pm. Um, if so, what intersections were analyzed? And then one final question. Um, where are the garage entrances and exits? I know you guys put it up there, but I didn't really see them. And I was just wondering, how will cars queue up without backing up into say Fourth Street or River Street?

Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Well, those are all things for the uh developer to take into account and we're collecting comments and concerns and they'll address those things in their further plans, I think. And yes, they will be doing traffic studies. Yes.

Hi, good evening everyone. Um, my name is Ekko Goff and I'm a lifelong resident of Troy. I grew up in Lancingburg and I'm now a small business owner with a business on Fourth Street right nearby here. And uh I can say one of the huge draws of Troy is that it's unlike other cities in terms of its architecture, its historical value, and I have to say more ugly, boring, expensive apartment complexes are going to deter people from wanting to move here. It's also something that is just an eyes sore in one of the center areas of the city that everyone comes to for the farmers market, for downtown things. It does not benefit the residents of Troy in the slightest. It's really only benefiting the property owners. Um, I'd also like to list off a few existing apartment buildings that are very close to this that have many vacancies. This does not help the people of Troy in the slightest. What we need is green space. What we need are affordable shop places for warm business owners. What we need are grocery stores. We do not need this. So 16116th AB the city at six station at 2015 a the rise at collar city 10 king street the inside of Troy 100 Congress St. Vina. These are all buildings that serve this exact same purpose that have many vacancies already within a mile. So, I ask that you guys consider things that will actually benefit the residents of Troy and not things that will just fill the pockets of more developers without actually considering the place that it sits in.

Thank you. Okay. Well, let me ask you a question. As a business owner downtown, do you see a huge demand for additional commercial space downtown? And how many vacant commercial spaces are there downtown?

There are a fair amount of vacant commercial spaces in general. But what I also see, honestly, the thing that I see the most is a lack of accessible public space, a lack of any kind of green space, a lack of anywhere for the public to congregate that's not just on the sidewalk. Um, one of the things that I mainly see as a business owner is the fact that there's just not anywhere to congregate or or exist. The the closest green space is a private green space, Washington Square Park, that people can't access. So, you would like to see this as a park?

Frankly, I'd like to see it as a park. I doubt that would happen, but at the very least, I would like to see some kind of public space, something that is aimed to help the people of Troy. Something that's aimed to not just exist as this private closed off lot in one of the most center areas of the city. Like my entire life, I've gone to, you know, there's that very small area of Riverfront Park, but there's really not anywhere with like a playground. I have a three-year-old nephew. I have nowhere to go with him as a playground in that downtown area. And I live and I work downtown and it's it makes me sad too. They talk about there being a grocery store nearby. There's Uncle Sam's that is a tiny grocery store. That is not enough to sustain this huge apartment complex talking about its walkability and sustainability. Oh, there's a grocery store nearby. It is a tiny tiny grocery store. If you don't have a car, you have to go so far to get groceries. There's so many things that this lot could do to benefit the current residents of Troy. Not proposing more and more people coming. We have so many apartment buildings and there are so many vacancies. I just while sitting down looked up every one of the apartment buildings that I listed had at least four vacancies. And that's just them saying the type of unit that is available. That's not even saying what the how many vacancies there are. I know at least those buildings have at least four.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate your time. Anybody else?

Hi, my name is Noah Pedroso. Uh I'm sort of echoing a lot of what other people said. Um to prepare briefly echo what she just said. Um mostly I do think a green space would be nice. Um but again that's mostly feelings. So, I'm coming here mostly for logistical questions. Like, as as a resident of downtown Troy, it does feel like I don't really know if we need more housing. I feel like more green space would help, but also I understand that, you know, housing is nice and also affordable housing is nice. So, I was wondering uh do you guys or would uh know the developer would they provide that information where the residents of Troy can, you know, make informed decisions about is this housing actually affordable? Will people actually move into it or will it be you know people moving from outside Troy and displacing residents that already live here or you know where would I look to get where where should we be looking to make these decisions or is it just they're coming in and telling us because like for one thing that was just mentioned I do agree that they did mention there's a grocery store right across the street but I agree Uncle Sam's Mikasa Bargain Grocery those are like the main grocery stores and uh you know Bargain Grocery is pretty good But there's not enough is my opinion.

Okay. Thank you. So do you know like where I should all that all that stuff is probably being developed right now and it'll be part of what is presented here over time. This is just the beginning of this whole project. So just more and more meetings is really the answer to that. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Is there anyone else? Okay. Then we're going to close the public comment period and there's no action to be taken on this application at this time. So we will go to the next application which is Mr. Styles. 310 Spring 310 Spring Avenue.

Tom, are you there? Don't tell me we lost you. I'm here. Hello. Hi Tom. Hi. Okay. Can you uh first of all I have to say I'm going to uh handle the u the proceedings for this application but I'm going to recuse from questioning and I'm going to recuse from a vote because I am involved with your landlord. So so uh but I'll I'll I'll chair it as far as uh until we get to uh questions and vote. Okay. Sure. All right. So would you give us a little bit of sketch here? I think we already pretty much understand but just tell us what's going on here quickly please.

So the school had announced its closure. We had been at the school for 16 years running school age programs after school programs and summer camps for older kids. Uh the mission of the the church wanted to continue its mission of outreach and education in spite of the closure of the school. So uh they offered us to extend our programming under lease which would help them obviously um you know pay for the building. So we had a lot of experience TSL adventures in doing uh UPK programs in partnership with various local school districts. So, um, we decided to continue that with Troy City School District and, uh, we did earn a contract from them to run four universal preschool programs there, which is the programs the school, Sacred Heart School previously run. So, no changes as far as as the locations of where those classrooms are being held and just basically a change of partnership. the school closes, we take over. We run the UPK programs along with our own uh programs that we've been running there for 16 years. The church, you know, gets paid a lease which helps them pay for the building and uh no substantial revisions, no substantial uh and no basically uh no no changes in the usage or or emission or anything like that. we just kind of continue where they left off under a private uh umbrella.

Okay. Thank you. Uh questions from the board. Okay. No questions. Is there uh anybody from the public want to comment on this application? No. Okay. Then uh do you want to hear discussion? I think we're good. We're good. We're good. Good. Make a motion. Make a motion that we accept their application as final and the approve the approve the project. I'll second. That was a motion.

Sorry. [Music] Microphone please. Any discussion from the board? We're good. No, we're good. All right. Just a vote. Vote. I I I and I will uh recuse because of the concept. Motion carries. Uh your application is approved, Mr. Styles. Good luck there. All right. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for your patience and time. Take care. Thank you.

Byebye. [Music] You can stay with us if you'd like. Welcome. Oh, I guess 101 Second Avenue. Representative Good evening everyone. John from Couch White attorney for the applicant. Also with me is Annie Brick. Uh Joe Danal from EDP and Justin Degillio from Hartkin.

Do you want me to wait for Chris or do you want me to just You can go ahead. All right. Oh, yeah. You can go ahead. Okay. Um so we are here tonight um essentially for the board to discuss assuming lead agency status. Um notices went out in late June I believe it was right Eric? Yeah that's correct.

Yeah. So it it wasn't in time to be on for the July meeting. So um we are here tonight for that. Um once the board assumes lead agency status, we will you know submit our full uh seeker package so to call it um environmental studies and things like that regarding u the project. Um uh recently there were some correspondence and some comments regarding um the project and shipo and and consultation. Um, so we didn't submit these um for this meeting uh simply because we were waiting for the board to assume lead agency status. So it was the proper agency to submit this stuff to. Um, but we went ahead and let staff and and Rick um and Chris know that we were going to pass these to to Eric tonight and discuss them with the board and and let them know what's going on. Um, so I'm just going to give Eric a couple packets um that have two different letters from Shipo. um state historic preservation preservation office um regarding consultations for the project. So there's there's two different letters from shipo because obviously we have two different aspects, right? Um we'll just call them uh above ground considerations and and below ground considerations. Um, so the first letter you have is a May 15th letter from Shipo. Um, that is Shipo's sign off on the visual of the site um and the project. That that's the the above ground impacts, right? So that is Shipo's sign off on the coloring, the landscaping, etc. um given the historic district. The

second letter that is going around is a May 28th, 2025 letter from Shipo. Um I know some of you may have heard this before, but I don't know if we've ever discussed it previously in detail with this board. Um which we will do more so when lead agency is established. Um but in a high level essentially um there are some historical Loki on this site um that have been identified in phase one and phase two. Um I have Justin here who can speak to that stuff more later if the board has more questions. Um but essentially uh the process when you have these sites in a development project um there's two options. it is to either avoid uh the disturbance or complete a phase three data recovery plan and there are certain portions where we cannot avoid given you know the the constraints on the site. So what you have in the May 28th letter is Shipo's review and sign off of our phase three data recovery plan for the project. Um, so I know there's been some comments and concerns about that stuff. So like I mentioned earlier, traditionally we would wait until the board establishes itself as lead agency um to provide this. But given um recent comments and concerns, we've decided to provide it now in order to show the essentially a sign off from Chipo. How does the applicant feel about um I mean that the shipo letter notes that

the stockbridge my may request to visit the site during the data re uh retrieval field work. Is the applicant willing to commit to uh allowing them to visit the site during the retrievalss? Yeah, that's not an issue. And we've also um I I think we've also agreed that we would work with them um in determining where any recovered artifacts should go, how they should be treated. Um whether it's they want to take possession of them or they go to the state museum. Um we're open to that. [Music]

Um who would actually be doing the excavation? Would um or would there be a Are you are you talking about the data recovery? Yes. Yes. [Music] You can take it right out of Good evening. Uh my name is Justin Debergio. I'm president and owner of Harkin Archaeological Associates, a Winsler County cultural resource management firm that um specializes in exactly this type of archaeological work. You'll be doing it.

Yeah, we've been the the contractor both for this project and on the same site for the um EPA water line um that crossed the Hudson River for um prior to the the PCB removal project. uh that impacted a portion of this same archaeological site. We went um as a contractor to the EPA went through this same kind of staged process of identifying the site and then because uh avoidance of it was not feasible. They had to cross the river. At that point, we did this um same sort of uh mitigation effort called the phase three data retrieval on the portion that the EPA mitigated. And uh uh we're proposing very comparable um uh approach to the portions of the site that this project will impact.

Can you what did you find there?

Yeah, the the site is it's really a two main components principally. It's a quarry site. So this is indi a quarry site. It's indigenous population. So it was all used thousands of years ago well before Europeans arrived. And the material being quarried uh we call it CH. It's a type of flint that was one of the um most uh preferred stone types for tool making. Uh there's in the bedrock outcrops on the site. There are seams of this flint material that were easily accessible. Uh they didn't need to dig significantly. they could just work right from the exposed outcrop faces. That's the main component of the site. And then there's a somewhat lowlying um portion, most of which is being avoided by the project, but there's a small portion of that low-lying area that the project will impact. That area had a campsite. So, river access, traveling by river, coming to quarry and and extract out blocks that they could take away with them and use to produce tools at at other locations at a later date, but they needed a place to camp while they were there gathering this resource. And that's what this flat flat zone was. So we'll be looking at both the areas that they were quarrying and we'll be looking at the area that they were using as a camp while visiting the site to quarry.

Is there evidence of them quarrying or just evidence of the materials that they would be quarrying?

Um yeah the the there is evidence of the quarrying. It's uh like with modern-day uh quarrying for uh building stone materials for example, you end up with a lot of talis, sort of the uh material that's not usable that has to be cut away to get it what you want. That's the number one thing that you find in terms of volume or count. That's the biggest thing. Um but then once we get there we we have some methods that we use to try to um estimate how much ore they were extracting from a site and we use this to compare the relative importance of different quarry sites uh up and down the Hudson Valley and beyond.

So would there have been tools used or tool marks or anything like that? Um there yeah there are the the tools are relatively um uh simple in form you know the biggest would be um usually quartzite cobbles you know very hard stone material um they also used um wooden wedges um but those as you can imagine they don't survive the thousands of years so we don't find any of the organic material uh tools that they use but the the hammerstones and also what we call anvils. So, just like an anvil would be used for blacksmithing, it'd be a particularly large massive rock that they would place a block of ore that they were trying to high-grade and then they would have smaller cobbles that they would use as hammerstones. And we can tell from the types of pitting that you see on these core stones uh when they were used for that kind of activity. So it's to the naked eye if you were to pick it up or the untrained eye I should say to pick it up you might not recognize it as having been a tool but when you start to pay attention to the types of of wear that they exhibit um you can tell the difference of what was used as a tool versus what was just laying around. Also, because this is not an area that naturally has cobbles, when you start to find courtsite cobbles on this site, you know that they were imported by people.

And what will the disturbance what disturbance will happen to these two areas that you're talking about?

Yeah. So, um, it's the Corey site is actually part of a really long formation that started where the Hannerford was, continues on up through that whole ridge until um to the north where you're into Scatakoke and the river takes, you know, the two uh quick quick bends. That entire formation was all one massive series of bedrock outcrops. So there's some places where you have a bedrock bedrock outcrop, you go another 50 feet and there's nothing. So each of these outcrops is where the centers of the cing activity were. Um so that's the focus when when John mentioned that there were a number of different um lowi which we call just kind of the um centers of of activity past activity. Those are the areas that we're focusing our work on. I'm focusing on

uh so these areas that based on our prior testing have showed us there's remnants from the cing material. So it's really where the bedrock outcrops were um accessible at ground surface thousands of years ago when um people were quarrying. So my question is yeah will those areas be disturbed by this project or likely?

Yep. So this whole this whole process for the archaeological review it it typically goes through three phases. First phase is just focused on um presence or absence. Is there an archaeological site here? Because of our prior work for that EPA project uh we already knew the answer to that question. So then we go to the second phase which is we call it a site evaluation. Um, you're asking which parts of the site are National Register eligible or shorthand we just say significant. Significant means that there's real information that could be gathered by additional examination and excavation of the site. We've we've done the phase one and ta phase two. Uh we made the recommendation that the site was significant. The shipo concurred with that. Uh we went through several rounds of considering or the project team did several rounds of considering um different configurations of the site plan to try to avoid what was feasible. The portion where avoidance is feasible is on the portion of the site they're saying was used more as a camp. Um I think it works out to be roughly 50% of that area is preserved. um the other 50% will be impacted and then the um three areas where the quarrying activity was taking place those will be impacted. So to mitigate those impacts is this scope of work that in the is it the May 28th letter? Yeah, the May 28th letter addresses we submitted a proposed work plan to mitigate that impact on those portions of the site and that's what the shipo has concurred with.

Do we have that? Uh you don't have the work plan. Um that would be something that we could uh provide following the lead agency determination but you do have the shipo letter concurring with that work. Right. Yeah. We don't know what they concurred. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And uh when you talk about the campsite, is it a campsite by topography or is there evidence that there was camping there?

Yeah. Um yes to both really. Um the just like nowadays if you were to go camping, you're probably unlikely to pick the spot that's a steep slope. So people tended to favor um relatively flat areas. Um, and people tended to favor spots that had some source of water pretty close by. And that portion of this site checks both of those boxes.

But no, any any implements or tools or anything? Um so yes there in the prior testing there were some tools and also um um some some evidence um from um one of the things even if we don't find a fire pit. Uh we find rocks that have been cracked because they've been put in a fire and then often used to heat a liquid for cooking. Um, and that sudden change in temperature causes a thermal shock and causes the the rocks to break in a very identifiable way. So, we did find some of those. So, that that's a sign that we it's a sign of camping. People were there cooking food,

but no pottery showers. No, we we not not to this point. Um, based on what we've seen so far, it it predates the period of pottery making technology here in the Northeast. So we're not expecting pottery but um people may have visited the site multiple times over millennia. So that is a possibility that we can find. What is what is the era that you think it was used for camping and tool production?

Yeah, we um we we don't have a lot of data points to to give that to us, but it's um looking like it's the late archaic period. Um, so we are looking um I there's a little bit of a of a guess based on what we h the information that we have to fuel this date, but we're probably looking at maybe 6,000 years ago up to 2,000 years ago. Yeah, you're a little young. Not much. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Sorry. I monopolized it, but I'm fascinated by it.

Yeah. So what what's your process? I mean what how do you how do you do your job? Yeah. Um so talk like the whole all of the phases or are you interested in just what's out in the field? I mean what what do you do to collect this collect the artifact?

Yeah. Um let's see. There's we use a number of different techniques. So um we'll be doing some laser scanning. So this gives us a really highresolution three-dimensional record of the topography. So it's imagine like a topographic map but super detailed like to the fraction of an inch. Uh and we'll be focusing on all those areas where the ore was extracted and then kind of placing them in the in the topographic context. Uh we'll be we'll be starting with that. We'll be doing some just clearing of all the vegetation um you know as part of that so we get a a real picture of the the quarrying activity.

Um we'll be I mentioned those talis that's all the waste that gets deposited when you're extracting the ore that you want.

Uh we'll be removing that in some select locations to help us estimate the volume. uh we'll be using that volume to do some reconstructions of what those core the size of those corey faces prior to all the cing activity. Uh we'll be doing um excavations in select areas. So we already know from our prior work where the activity was concentrated. Um we'll be placing larger excavations, excavation blocks in some of those areas to uh recover more materials. And then one of the focuses will be down in that portion where the campsite is. That's the area we um we've if we take our work on this site plus the work on that EPA project that is least studied. So we know the least about what's going on there. And that's where a lot of the focus will be. We'll be looking for we call them features, but it's like signs of um fire pits that might have been used for for camping. We're not expecting any evidence of structures. It's it's very early um for that. Um but we would be looking for signs of fire pits or um different we call them roasting platforms. These big aggregations of of rock that were heated with charcoal and then used to roast vegetables, fish, um all sorts of foods. Um, we'll certainly be looking for other artifacts, whether or not there is any pottery present. Um, because pottery is is one of the most informative artifact types on these sorts of sites. Um, we can analyze the residues inside the pottery to get all sorts of information about what sort of foods were being um, consumed or stored in the in the vessels. When the field work is over, um, well, I should say while we're doing the field work, every artifact that we

collect gets pinned to its precise location

and labeled appropriately. And then afterwards, we pull out of the field. Uh, we prepare a preliminary uh, very basic report at first, us typically a couple weeks after we come out of the field and submit that to the Shipo office. The shipo office reviews that and says, "Okay, yes, we are satisfied that this meets the fieldwork component of that work plan." And they will typically recommend to the permitting agency that they grant the applicant the permit to proceed with any site work. While that is beginning, we continue with our our writing process. Um there's three main components that come out of that. We have a a technical report that we write gets filed with the state um the ship office with the state museum. Um a there's some kind of like public education component. The technical report has a lot of jargon in it. So it's not the most accessible to members of the public, but there'll be some kind of public output that can take the form of um presentations. some projects um we actually have we produce um public volume something that's just more readable um and then that will get distributed to public repositories around um and then the third component is to uh provide for the long-term storage and and um protection of the artifact collection that came out of it. Uh and as was mentioned before, there is the possibility that that could be the um Stockbridge Blunty community of Moheakin Indians. They have taken some collections. My understanding is generally they don't have um the capacity at present to take um many more collections. So I think the more likely location would be that the New York

State Museum takes possession of it. Um is most your artifacts in the overburden or is it in the rock itself.

It's um it's it's going to depend which component. The quarry component, it's all kind of right on the surface. I mean, it's covered by uh centuries of of leaf litter and that kind of stuff, but it's very close to the surface down on the um the uh campsite. Um it is probably within the top um 18 to 24 in. Uh there it's not an active uh actively growing flood plane at this point. Um but at times in the past it was still accumulating sediments from seasonal floods. Uh so some of those artifacts get buried by flood deposits from from centuries afterwards. So that part's a little bit deeper. So pretty much when you get down to rock

Yeah. It's pretty much it's over. Yeah. It's over. Yep. Absolutely. Thank you very much. You're welcome. The map that you're showing here now, does that say where you're going to be digging? That yellow circle? What is What What is he showing up there? Does it have nothing to do with what you're talking about? Yeah, I'm not sure what the yellow circle is. Okay, I see. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, I got you now.

Yeah. Uh, so the the areas that I was saying where the concentrations of where the cing activity are are these um these three here. Okay. And then the area that was kind of the uh principally the camping activity is this spot in blue. Uh this is also a little bit of the corine debris that makes it up here. And generally if the redder the color looks that means there's more density of artifacts. Okay.

So yeah. So this is the area where we'd be focusing our work on that campsite. And then for the quaries here, here, and here are the spots we'll be looking at. So, when you do that and you're starting to look for everything you're looking for in that yellow area, does that mean you're going to have to take trees down or anything like that or you're just going under the the soil and looking for what you need to see?

So, what we are representing in these two maps, the the yellow and the blue area, if you look at the next map, that's where the highest density of features were found. What we're showing here in that yellow is that is the area where the highest density was found and we're not disturbing that as part of this project. That is remaining as is. There's large trees there. We're keeping that as a parklike setting in front of the buildings. So, he's not going to be digging there or looking for anything in there as he goes along. Now,

so yeah, as I was saying earlier, a portion of the the camp location does fall within the pro project. a portion is in the avoidance area that's being preserved. So, our work will be in the portion of the campsite that is being impacted by the project.

Okay. Um, can I ask when you start finding artifacts, you say Stockbridge Muny might not have a big enough space to do it. They might be going to the museum. Is there any way that after this project has been approved and it's moving right along that any of those artifacts can be kept at this site as an educational tool? Maybe in a pavilion, maybe along your roots, you know, your paths, and you could have a little sample of this and tell the history of it. Um, so that if you do your boat launch, you're going to have the thing going all the way around and zipping around and down to the water. If you want to be able to use your PDD as a public benefit, why couldn't that be part of that benefit is educating people as to what was there and maybe show what was there?

Uh, so this does um come up in certain circumstances. I I know the New York State Museum stance on it is if they're taking a collection, they want the entire everything associated with the site to be deed to them. They will sometimes then negotiate a long-term loan of select items um right back again, but the ownership would be transferred to them and a loan would be possible. Typically though nowadays we don't tend to um recommend that too much because we have the capacity to easily fabricate with 3D printing very accurate replicas

and we we have that equipment at my firm as well. So we can 3D scan any object that's of particular interest fabricate a replica. What's included in the um data retrieval plan, which I know you don't have yet, but you will have at one point, is um the preparation of a um interpretive panel. Um and an interpretive panel, the ones we typically um uh do, they're like a high density laminate, so they're it's not something that's printed at staples and is is not going to age. They look very professional

and um they could be made to include a space to place um replicas of selected artifacts. I've been over to the co falls. It's been quite a few years, but they have gorgeous signage and everything over there. Is that something that Yeah, it's that's exactly the type of um process that we use as well. Okay. Would the uh Stockbridge Muny community have preference and priority if they wanted this collection?

Um the I I know that the shipo is in support of that. Um the applicants in support of that. Uh and the state museum makes no claim on it. So they just they are um they're probably the number one repository for archaeological collections in the state. Um but uh I know all parties involved would support that if the Stockbridge at the state museum they're not accessible to the public are they very not very accessible.

Oh no they are. Yeah. Yeah. Um it's it's you can't just walk in but um they uh archaeological collections are sometimes used in rotating exhibits there. Uh but largely it's open to people by appointment if you want to um do the research. So I know the various tribal nations for example they um regularly visit the state museum to uh examine collections and other members of the public as well.

Well and and would it be correct to say that bottom line is that this really belongs to the owner of the property and they could say nobody's taken it nowhere but that might affect approvals and so on but the state doesn't have any right to say we're going to take this stuff. Is that correct? Exactly right. Yes. and the the work plan already specifies that the intent to um uh do the deed of gift and and make the offer to the repository. Yeah.

Okay. But also one last question for me. Um so I understand that the yellow circle indicates the highest intensity I guess of evidence. What proportion of that is of the total? I mean, that's where it's most intense, but the whole area also have artifacts. Um, yeah, Joe, can you put on the the one that had the numbers and the the heat map on it again? Yeah. Everything that has any kind of color is in the vicinity of where some artifacts were found.

So, would it be fair to say that virtually everything that's there is going to be obliterated by this project. Is that other than what you remove in the line of artifacts?

Um there will be so we're all out here. We're out of it. Um and then the you know as Joe is is indicated with the the circle there you know really that that key portion lines up with where the presentation is. Yeah. Yes. And uh the the area that's in the kind of impact zone of the project is any kind of ground activity happening there. So, uh, as we get down toward this area, most of the impact is really just related to achieving the grade for a path. So, um, there'll be uh along with that grading um uh we'll be excuse me along with that uh that path we will be increasing the um public accessibility of the project. So for the portions of the site that are being preserved, one of the steps that we're taking is to um place some clean fill on top of and this has been discussed uh with um the shipo um DEEC and the stockmancy at a prior site visit to uh encapsulate and to protect like help ensure the preservation of any materials in the portion of the site that are being

well the site of the buildings themselves. Yeah. What's Are you going to be removing any um artifacts from the sites of the buildings before the buildings are built? Yeah, we'll be doing all of our work before but any any site construction?

Are you going to be doing that in all of those yellow areas there? Well, it's uh the standard for the B3 data retrieval is usually to get like a two to three or maybe a 5% sample of the site. So, we never collect anything approaching 100% unless the site is really tiny like a few square feet. Um, so we're always working with a very small sample so that just will be a record of what exactly went on in that area but not a complete record. Correct. Yeah.

So if you look at the pink, those are the lowi that we were talking about before. The actual buildings that impact it are pretty small spots. I have two questions if if you would. Um, one, does the site contain u either finish points or half finish points? I'm working from my memory at this point. Uh so I I can't give you the exact number but a couple like fewer than five, two, three. Um

so the the finish the quaring was done there but the finishing was not

correct. Yeah. the the the general conception uh is that what was being taken away from the site are blocks of high quality ore that are small enough to carry relatively easily but would then be worked later. And typically it was a series of steps. They would have a a block that they would break into a series that we call them blanks. A blank is, if you can imagine, a projectile point before it's been formed, kind of the uh rectangular block that would encapsulate that. Um, and then that's what they would do when they were ready to um produce a tool. So, it's it's still blockier stuff. chunks of ore is is what we believe that they were principally extracted.

And my second question is what experience have either you or or Harkin um what is your experience dealing with uh dealing with and communicating with the Stockbridgeidge my in terms of consultation or site visits and all that?

Yeah. Uh well we've done for this project we've already done two site visits with the Stockbridge my um one was with them alone the other was with them in conjunction with Shipo and um representative from the DEC uh the way the process is set up is for governmenttogoment relations. So we never take the lead on consultation with any of the tribal nations. we play a supporting role. So if it's a project and there's a state agency involved, that agency, so in in this case it would be DC would have that government-togovernment relation and then as they need any support from us, that's where we step in. So we don't lead the process. Um but we we do that support, you know, all the time. It happened during the EPA project. Um the South Troy Industrial Road project. Um it's happened for um on Vans Skike Island. Um there's several projects that we've done. We found an early um traders hut that had evidence of both the um Native American occupation as well as the early traders. We've had um extensive consultation with them about that. uh so you know regularly but just always we're somewhat in the background you know we take the lead and just support the agencies in their consultation

I I guess I'm wondering do they participate in the data retrieval in any way or

they they don't um participate in the sense of uh actually doing any of the digging or or doing the analytical work. Um but sometimes uh members or representatives of the tribal nations will come out and observe the work while it's happening. Um they they're free to you know look at anything that we find out of the ground. It's usually very collegial um that the dynamic there. um if they have interest in seeing the materials when we get them back to our laboratory and have the collection all laid out um they're welcome to and sometimes do come by our office uh to examine collections. So they don't do the work but they may be engaged in that way. And lastly, uh what kind of so if there is a potentially sensitive find

of sort of whatever sort I don't really know much about your field, but uh do you directly notify the the tribe or do you notify Shipo to notify the tribe? How does that work? Yeah, we uh our first um step would be to notify the shipo and the any other involved um state and there's no federal agencies on this one for projects that have federal involvement. We notify those agencies. They make very clear that they want to be the ones to have that governmenttogoment relationship with the tribal nations. So they do that. Once that connection's been made, if there's questions or just kind of detailed information, then we get together on a a group conference call or we meet together on the site. Um, and there are other local examples, you know, of exactly this where we've found um artifact types that are associated with um ceremonial practices. So, as soon as we find this, we're we're not waiting till the report at the end. We um initiate that communication right at that point in time.

Thank you. Can I ask a question on top of Rick's? Um you said the Stockbridge Moni was there twice. Has that been recently or was that the past several years ago?

Yeah, over the past several years probably. One was um maybe three, four years ago. Uh and then the other was as soon as the ground thawed this year. So like once all the snow had melted. So probably late March. Yeah. They've had some the Stockbridgeidge my community has had some change in um their staffing. So it was uh new people involved that hadn't toured the site before. So that's why we did another tour. just clarifying for me that the areas I think it's purple or red there is that that's the querying areas is it

well the the four uh magenta blobs are yeah they're they're the different concentration areas of concentration of of the so this one's Corey this one's Corey this one's Corey and then this one is kind of uh part camp and then there's a little bit of corey materials in there as well. Does it does that indicate that most of that outcropping natural outcropping will remain? Um destroyed.

Yeah, the the out I mean that's really a question more for I think Joe to answer on how much material is is um being being removed. Um, so I'll I'll hand that off to him to answer. Well, he you're asking specifically about the the bedrock outcrops. Yeah. Yeah, it does depend on exactly where they're going to be. There is excavations in this area. There's still Oh, sorry. There is excavations obviously anywhere there is a road utility even the trail there are going to be excavations and fills. Some areas are going to be excavated where that outcropping will be taken away. Other areas are going to be filled in which we're then going with the encapsulation process where we're leaving any potential artifacts directly in the ground.

Thank you. Anyone else? Any other questions from this gentleman? Anybody? kind of have a funny question. Um, say the owner was just sitting on the site not developing it. Would there be any approvals necessary in order to do something similar to a phase three? They're just a history nerd and wanted to I'm I'm just I'm curious. You mean like someone just start digging in the backyard? Yeah. Yeah. I mean

the the only limitation that I'm aware of is um just like with any other uh earth movement, if we were to open up enough ground, then we need to deal with storm water. Yeah. And also is um the you mentioned like there could possibly be a public presentation. Is that paid for by the applicant, the developer through you or is that subsidized through

um it's not subsidized? Yes, it it is a component of the data retrieval plan to have a public information component, but also my firm at any point in time if if any group asks us uh to do a a public talk, um we tell them what talks about resources in their community that we're equipped to to provide and we do that as a free service. So, bit of a history lesson today. So, appreciate it. Yeah, you're welcome.

All right. Thank you, gentlemen. Let's see if the if anybody in the public wants to comment on this. Now, uh let me just caution you that the only thing that the board is considering tonight is whether or not to take lead agency status. So, if you have comments or questions, they should be addressed to that issue alone. All of these other matters that are identified in the staff report will be taken up in due course. But the first order of business before we can get to any of that is to determine whether or not we are the lead agency. So, uh, if you want to speak on that topic, come, please come forward.

Hi. Hello. My name is Jessica Bennett. I live at 1092nd Avenue, immediately adjacent to this site. Can you hear me? All right. Thank you. Um, thank you for the opportunity to speak. I know it's been a long night and I promise to keep it brief. Um, as lead agency, which I'm assuming you will be at this point, um, the next step is to approve the application. There are still some Well, there's many steps before that, I think. So, what's before approving the application? That's your assumption is incorrect, but I'm not going to get into all of that. Let's talk about the lead agency status. All right. Okay. Um, well, wait. I don't know if you're going to be lead agency or not.

We don't know that either. We're going to talk about it after we hear your comments on it and see what your ideas are on that. Uh, that's what we're here for tonight to decide if we're going to take lead agency status. We've indicated our intent to do so, but we haven't done it yet. But the 30 I'm I'm sorry to interrupt, but hasn't the 30-day timeline passed for other agencies to comment back? We're not gonna we're not getting into all of that. just talk to us about what your idea is about who should be the lead agency. I think you should be the lead agency. Okay, good. Thank you. We probably will be, but we're going to talk about it after we hear what the public thinks about it. Okay. Um uh I do think that should have been the last meeting uh where you were declaring your intent to leave.

Um but yeah, I do think you are the the right board. Um, as you know, we've had a there's a long history with this project, uh, going back five years. And, um, the hope of the public had always been for the former planning commission, but now certainly the planning board is the best suited body in the city of Troy to be lead agency. Um, my understanding of seeker is that the 30-day notice goes out. um which we certainly don't know when uh the the letters went in the mail, but I do believe since that was the June meeting and we're now in August that that 30-day timeline has now passed. Okay, good. Thank you. If that's your conclusion, but you have anything else to say.

What am I allowed to comment on because I do have some comments on the EAF. You've already told us that you think we should have lead agency status. That's the only thing that's being considered tonight. So, we appreciate you recommending that it be this board and we we'll talk about that after we hear what the rest of the public feels about that. There'll be plenty of opportunity for you to comment on any other things in this whole project. This is going to be a little while before it's done, I believe. Certainly.

Certainly. I'm sorry. I I don't mean to be disrespectful. I just I thought that had already been decided with the detent intent to be uh letters that went out. I I isn't it kind of immutable point unless other involved agencies have responded and declared their desire to lead at which point the DEEC then decides yes the board previously declared its intent to act as lead agency there's a 30-day period during which other involved agencies can object no objection has been received from another involved agency that doesn't but the board still needs to establish if it is the lead agency Thank you. I I didn't understand that. Thank you. All right. Well, I wish you luck.

You have to defer to the lawyer for that kind of stuff. Well, seeker is a beast as you all know, but um I look forward to working with you in the future and I am hopeful that this is going to go well. All right. Thank you. Is there anyone else who wants to comment?

Hello everybody. Me again. Um, I'm going to agree that I think that this body is the most appropriate uh body for lead agency. Um, I think that there is a lot of material already at your fingertips that is um that already have some factual errors um in the the short form itself has some factual errors in it. So, I'm going to encourage you please make sure that you really scrutinize those things. Um, and then I'm going to refer to a lot of the other things that we're discussed tonight. you know we we this is one person this is one form of evidence um I think it's incumbent upon as you begin this process um ensuring that we have uh impartial independent evidence uh and so there there's a full picture u not clouded by uh various for you know the the the compensation um structures that that are inherent in this process so um I'm wish you luck and I'm and I know that we have as I'll you know remind you that you have that incredible amount of power um to seek out your own independent um experts uh and expertise. So, I'm going to just encourage please exercise that power. Thank you.

Thank you.

Is there anyone else? Yes, please forward. Um, I'm sorry that public comment has to be so narrowly focused when we've sat here for three and a half hours and we're supposed to be the third item on the agenda. Um so but I mean I do also agree that the planning board is the appropriate agency to be the lead agency. But we at the same time need to consider and we need to be assured the seeker process will be thorough and will be fair and will not be the sham job that it was when this project first came up. Um and uh I in before the May meeting when you were first considering this issue of lead agency um I submitted a few pages of comments um before uh through Eric um for the planning board which are were an item by item line item through the seeker application that showed the misrepresentations and the inaccuracies and the things that were simply wrong in the application. Um, we had discussion tonight about Shipo and apparently that has initially been resolved. Um, I do appreciate the fact that Justin explained the archaeology and the importance of that, which he did a great job. And, um, he also noted the cliff um, at the south end of the site and the developer then simply said, "Well, yes, we're going to take the cliff down." So these are the kinds of things that you need to be thinking about that you need to be looking at and thinking about critically because in my own analysis 75% of this site will be excavated cut or filled with their project. 75% of the

site and that is not reflected in what the seeker what the original part one seeker says. There are many other inaccuracies in there and misrepresentations. Places where they said, "Oh yeah, there's uh there's a river. There's going to be some impact on the river." No description at all as to what that impact on the river will be. Um historic site, the people's island is mentioned as a historic site, but right across the river, we have a national his register historic site of the village of Waterford, which directly faces this site. that is not considered at all. There are many things in this seeker application. I would encourage you to go back and look at some of the light items that I gave you in my um May comments and um to seriously consider whether from a topographical point of view, ecological point of view, um traffic, noise, visual impact, impact on historic resources, whether this is a suitable project for this site. That is why we have Seeker. That's the very purpose of seeker is to determine whether it is suitable um and what those impacts actually are. So you have a big job ahead of you as lead agency and I hopefully rest assured that you will be taking that very seriously and very diligently. Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else would like to speak? Welcome. Hello again, everyone. It's been a bit of a long night, hasn't it? Yes.

Okay, I'm excited to go home and eat some food. But first I would like to talk about wow how amazing is it that in Troy hearing the archae hearing everything spoke that we have evidence of civilization from pre pottery age that's just amazing and the fact that we have that in Troy somewhere that's already so known for its American history. So why why are we talking about bulldozing something that could become a huge asset to the city and to the city's identity and its history? Why why are we even talking about bulldozing something that has such amazing historical value that once it's done you can never get it back? It's frankly we've done enough terrible things to the indigenous people over here. If we have something so ancient and precious and things that we could gain so much knowledge for, why why do we need to put a housing development there at all?

Well, let me ask you a question. Yeah. Who um who do you think would be better suited to address your concerns as lead agency? I think you guys would be best suited to That's really the question. Thank you. I appreciate that. But also, I have to say a bunch of us did wait three and a half hours to speak on this and it being such a narrow scope of public comment. Well, you can talk all all you want, but you can't do it right here. So, we we're focusing on a question that we need to answer. So,

and and this is public comment about this very specific thing. I do believe you guys are best as lead agency and I look forward to how you will serve this. And I also uh sorry I'm really hope that we get what we need which is the positive declaration for the state environment quality review act. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak? Is there anyone else? Yes.

Agency as well. that please I do do think you should be leading identify yourself Monica will let Okay. Yeah. So, I'll be brief. Um I just want to Can you speak closer to your mic, please? I don't think I could do that without eating it. Take it off. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. Sorry about that. Um eat it, please.

I might get a little hungry. Um I I live in Waterford, New York, and it's I I I guess you'd have to go there to see how closely it is to this proposed site. It's very narrow, and you can noise is a huge issue. Okay, I just want you guys to be aware of it as lead agency. You know, you could you could hear a pin drop really and boats going by. Everything's very loud. And you guys know that you're been on this earth a long time. you know that it's watered. Um it sounds travels quickly over water. So we have we we're right there in Waterford and it's very noisy little things. So consider that noise consider um and there's other considerations are the traffic we

let's focus on lead agency status.

Yeah. Okay. But let me just quickly say because these are very important things. As you being a lead agency, you have to consider the people across the river. Okay? I'm looking for uh a traffic study across the river. It's a state bridge and we have traffic like it's it's unbelievable the congestion. It goes down the side streets right now. Can you imagine what it'll be like with 175 new apartments coming across? Because that's what they do. They go across the bridge, they cut down First Street and over and it's becoming like uh a highly trafficked area. So that that's my my major consideration. And then I see eagles flying all over the place and I see them nesting there. So you've got the wildlife. They they go to People's Island and and back and there's all kinds of wildlife there. And the other consideration that I think is important is the dynamite. There's got to be something that they're going to bulldoze. How can you not use dynamite? And and these buildings are so close. The proposed buildings are so close to that cliff. All these things I just mentioned are just going to be like bizarre really, you know,

very. But those are things I really wanted to speak about. And so your conclusion is that this board should be the lead agency or not? Yes, I do believe you should be the lead agency, but I'm saying these things. I really want you to drill down into them because it's important. It's important to all of us and a consideration of the years like the woman that spoke previously our history our archaeology and that that's also very important to all of us. Okay. There will be other meetings. So all right. Thank you. Leave the mic when you go.

Thank you. You're welcome. Next. Hello.

Um, my name is Rachel Carter and I live I'm a neighbor to the site. Um, I live in D1 and I do think very much that you should be the lead agency for this project. Um, and I really think that because you're best suited to pause deck this project and give it the consideration and the studies that the public have been asking for for the past five years because it has a significant ecological, environmental, historical and cultural impact on the site. Um, and I will leave it at that.

Well, thank you very much. Thanks. Hi. Hello. Kathy Gav, Waterford, New York. Um, I just, uh, yes, lead agency. Um, and the reason is, thank you very much. See you tomorrow. Now, just hear me out. Um, you saw all the yellow spots on the screen where this is major archaeological. I want you to consider looking into Pepski Preserve in East Greenbush on the river. What?

Papskenny, you know what I mean? On the river south of here. It's a na a national or it's a preserve that East Greenbush has in Wler County under the land trust and uh it just was renewed in 2021. So that's that's all I want to say. consider that they have the stock Stockbridge my um native site there too. So would they have trails you can go in and have picnic there but it's it's under a preserve under a land trust. So just consider that when you're doing your

Okay. Okay. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else?

Yes. Please come down. Evening board Arthur Wing once again. Um I think it's fair to say that there's a pretty big uh elephant standing in the room and it's wearing a neon sign saying that we'd like to talk more um about things that aren't just lead agency. So, what I'd like to say is I think it'd put a lot of people in this room at ease uh and help escuage their uh concerns if this board would let us know when it would be appropriate for the community to come forward with concerns uh that aren't regarding whether or not y'all are the lead agency. That being said, you guys seem like the best suited uh organization to take up that role.

Okay. Well, to raise your concerns, there'll be opportunities that probably going to be many more steps before this project is approved, if it is ever approved. And and at each of those steps, you public will be able to address whatever the relevant question is at that time. And all of these things that you folks have expressed concern about are going to have to be addressed by the applicant at some point. And and that point will be evident when the agendas come out. I'm not sure, you know, when they're going to move forward with what, but each time I think virtually every time you have an opportunity to to comment on what it is they're proposing to do at that step stage. Okay. Thank you for your answer.

So, just stay tuned. Thank you. Is there anyone else? [Music] Hi. Hi, I'm Emma Naperta. I live in Lancingberg. Um, I'm just curious like why was this the only proposal that we had a specific topic that the public commentary had to be about? The only thing that was on to determine lead agency status tonight. Okay.

Uh, is there a way for in future agendas for that to be made clear to the public? Because I know a lot of us here waited a long time to share our thoughts. We were here long before you and you're paid for that. That is your duty as a public servant.

Fine. But when you got here, you were told what we kind of considering tonight. It was on the last. Yeah. Somebody has to be last. Do you want to address the question of the agency status? I think you guys should be lead agency status. Um, and I think in the future things could be a little bit more organized to benefit your constituents. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else who like to comment? Anyone else like to comment? Yes. Come on down.

Hi, my name is Ardan. I live in Lancingburg. Um, yes. I think you guys should be the lead agency, but I realize you guys did get here long before us. I went to work at 7:00 a.m. today. It is 9:30 at night. I have to go to work at 7 a.m. tomorrow, too. This was the third thing on the agenda. So, if we are only allowed to comment on whether you guys are lead agency, don't you think it would maybe set a good example for you guys to like keep your agenda items in line and just like be third when you're supposed to be third? Because I'm pretty frustrated that it's 9:30 at night and I'm still here because I waited for public comment. I had to come all the way out here to determine, oh, it's just going to be lead agency. This was a waste of my time tonight.

Okay. I'm sorry about that. Anything else? I'm not sorry. Is there anybody else like comments?

Is there anyone who would like to come down to the microphone and comment on lead agency status? Okay. And if not, uh, is there anything else we need to do on this? So, we will need is there motion?

Right. So at this point we've received everything back from the interested agencies. So um in we did receive one uh negative comment from an interested agency. However, interested agencies uh do not have jurisdiction. Uh they're not in a position to fund or approve the project. So the u the relevant legal inquiry is whether we received any objection from an involved agency and we did not. So uh there being no objection, the board is free to assume lead agency status. I believe you should do it by motion though.

Right. Okay. I'd like to make a motion to uh assume lead agency status for this planning board. I'll second. Motion made and seconded. Any discussion by the board, Mr. Shufal? Yes, Mr. Yeah, I have a question. Yes. So, after we've just made ourselves lead agency, we haven't yet. You haven't done that yet. Well, okay. When do we do that? You say yes. Say yes. Yes. Okay. Yes. Motion carries unanimous. Now, question. Did you say yes? Yes. Mr. Kio said yes.

Okay. So now Motion carries by 40. Now that we've done this, when would they go before city council for their PD? Well, there must be a seeker finding before they can do that. No action can be taken on the project until a determination of environmental significance has been made. and that will be made by this board. Okay. So, do we have a specific period of time

for public comment? So the the law says that once the lead agency is established, the the board in this case being the board has uh 20 days from the time that it deems to have sufficient information to make the determination. So um okay. So if you you do not have sufficient information yet, obviously everything is in court still. But uh

but when once you deem once you agree that you have sufficient information to make a determination, then the law has you to make requires that you make that determination within 20 days. So the next time they come here, can we make our requests or do we have to request from the agency? You can you can make some requests right now to the to the applicant for staff notes have a lot of requests in them. I would ask that the board support those to the applicant and absolutely you know and make sure that they agree to comply with or to provide those materials that have been those materials before

and make the corrections of that. The board's also the board's also requested thirdparty review of this application. Yes. So that once we have sufficient material and the deposit that'll be sent over to uh I believe CHA provided a quote um which I've given to the applicant and also CDM Smith for sewer related stuff. So would it be an appropriate time now to ask them that we want an environmental impact statement or is that done through?

Novi an environ. So if if the board makes a positive declaration then there is an entire process which will result in a a draft EIS and and ultimately a final EIS. So that's the only way that is done by declaring a positive declaration.

That that's correct. If the board finds that there is going to be a significant adverse impact on the environment in any particular area, then uh an entire process is provided for in the regulations and the law for developing an EIS. I'm just up here because I thought you were gonna uh ask for something specific and I wanted to be able to write it down. Um yeah, so I can tell you um you're for our intent is to uh submit to you in time for your deadline for your next meeting. Um you will be getting a a bunch of things from us uh including items that hit on on the staff comments. Um you're going to be getting uh a stack of documents as Mr. Skully just kind of asked for um traffic study etc. So there'll be a number of things then you can look at them and tell us if you think as as Rick indicated um you know if you look at and you say hey what about this I don't see anything on this item um can you give us something we can do that

well many of those are are things many of the things that we will want are already outlined in the staff recommendations. you're aware of those and you'll be providing us information on all of those things, right? Correct. Yes. And also um ultimately if this does go out for independent review, which I think you is something that you've indicated you want. Yes. Uh that information that report when it comes back will be part of the information package on which you can base your decision. Or should I say those reports when they come back? John, just to be sure, the deadline for next month's Monday.

Okay. [Music] Anything further? Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anything else to come before the board? Yeah. I mean, we can Yeah. Eric, is there anything Eric, is there anything else that you need? Can we adjourn? Uh, no. Thank you. You need We can't adjourn. We can adjourn. Oh, yeah. I do not need anything further. Thank you. You may adjourn. All right. Make a motion. Thank you.

Is there a motion? I make a motion to adjurnn. Second. [Music] Discussion. All in favor? I. I. Oppos? No. Motion carries. Meetings are drawn.