Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Thank you. So this June meeting, the Troy Planning Board will come to order. And would you stand, please? We'll have the Pledge of Allegiance. Will you lead us, Mr. Shoup?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. Thank you, folks. We'll call the roll. Mr. Shoup?

Present.

Member Dickinson. Here. Member Shufeld.

Present.

Member York. Present. Member Keoh, present. All present and accounted for. We have a quorum and first order of business to adopt the minutes of the May meeting. Is there a motion?

I make a motion that we adopt the minutes to last month's meeting. Second.

I second that motion.

Thank you. Any discussion on the motion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say no. And the motion carries unanimously. Thank you. Next item. LaBella Associates? Yeah.

So they've sent in a request to extend the review. Their hearing was scheduled for tonight. They're not ready to come back, so they put in that request.

So just adjourn without date, or do we have a new date?

It would essentially be for next month.

Next meeting. All right.

Unless they let me know otherwise.

All right, so we don't have to approve that, do we?

I wouldn't hesitate making a motion to extend the review.

Motion? Anyone?

I would like to make a motion to extend the public hearing.

Yeah.

What's the wording they're asking?

You could make a motion to extend the review period.

I'll make a motion that we extend the review period for 158 4th 158 4th. So the next meeting to the next meeting.

Here's your second I second that any discussion on that.

All in favor say aye aye all say no and the motion carries unanimously. Next time on the agenda is 2026 0, 0, 2, 2, 8, 8, 5, that. The applicant has a representative present. Hi. If you're going to speak, identify yourself for the record, please.

Good evening. Okay. My name is Roger Keating. I'm from LaBelle Associates. I'm the civil site engineer for the project here representing Casablanca LLC. Al, the applicant, is also here with me this evening. We were before the board last month as part of our site plan review where we made a number of the changes to the site plans as the board and staff had commented on. At that last meeting, we had our application deemed complete. There were a number of variances that we had discussed at the previous meeting, where we then were sent on to the Zoning Board of Appeals for several area variances, as well as a use variance for the pickup window. We were before the ZBA. at their last meeting just a few weeks ago. At that meeting, we were successful in obtaining all the area variances requested by the applicant as well as the use variance. So we're back here this evening looking to advance our site plan review and approval with the planning board. And the plan is virtually the same as what you had seen at your last meeting based upon your comments and such that we had made changes to the plans about, but I'll turn it back to you, Mr. Chairman and staff for any comments that you might have.

Any questions for the applicant's representative?

Yes, I do. Roger, I'm confused. At one meeting, you said you were going to close at 12 o'clock. Another meeting, you said you were going to close at 11 o'clock. What are your hours of operation going to be?

I'll let Al answer the question as it relates to ours operation as it pertains to the use. So Al, would you mind addressing the microphone for the record? State your name.

Yeah, state your name first, please. Hello, everyone. This is Al from Casablanca LLC. Our hours of operation are going to be 6 to 12 a.m. We might make it 6 to 11, to be honest. We haven't made a final decision yet, but this is going to be based on traffic and what the surrounded neighborhood and community would need.

Okay. I would like to suggest, if everybody agrees, that you close at 11. I've looked at all the gas stations around. I know you have a food store in there also, but every gas station in Lansingburg closes at 11 o'clock. Except for your Fifth Avenue.

Yeah. The only thing is that we're different than all the other convenience stores around us. We do not sell any alcoholic beverages or any smoke shop accessories like all the businesses around us does. We're basically a business that's going to be based on necessities for things that are necessary like food, drinks, medicine that you would grab. And the reason why we're saying that is because we've noticed a lot of people is that they're, especially with everything closing up early in Landsenburg, they find a hard time getting anything unless they go across the bridge into the Cumberland that's in Cohoes. So I hope that you and the whole committee would trust us that we will make the right decision, that we will be in favor of what works for our neighborhood. And as you said, we're known in the community. Everyone knows our business model. We do not have any issues. We always work with law enforcement. We know the area very well. We know how to handle issues and matters. So I assure you that the one hour, they're just probably going to use a team to, you know, clean up after the rush or whatever. So, I mean, the food will be closed at 11 anyways, but for that one hour, they're just going to be cleaning up and stuff. Thank you.

So you're saying that hours of operation will cease at 11. And if you got to be there at all, 12, 31 o'clock, you clean it up inside the building. That is.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, of course.

But if, if, if someone comes into the door, whatever, we'll serve them. So the one hour is not a big deal. It's not like a deal breaker for us. It's just whatever our business model is based on demand. So whatever people around us demand, we'll supply them, but it's not like people will come last minute to grab a beer or like a, you know, like, respectfully to other stores around us like a, you know, pop pipe or anything like that?

No.

Thank you.

Motion that we close, they close at 11? Or do we have to?

So you could make a motion that that be a condition of site approval? When you get to that.

Okay.

I mean, you could condition the board's approval if a majority agree with you on the hours of operation.

If you don't mind me asking, it's just what is the board concern of the one hour? Just so I could understand what is the concern?

I think I would like to... Be receptive to some of the concerns of the neighborhood. I think 11 o'clock, if everybody else closes at 11 o'clock, if people can't get their act together, then...

I'm one of those who usually can't.

I mean, as you know, also from our other business model, this is also reducing employees hours, which, as you know, from our other business model, we do hire a lot of people from the community. So this is also going to negatively impact hours of work. of other people that are making a living out of that. It's just, again, we're not, we have not decided yet what hour, but I just, I want to be transparent with everyone that we will do whatever works for everyone. So I hope, like I said, you trust us. We will make the right decision. You're never going to have an issue with that.

So your pickup window, that's actually a franchise. The food is a franchise. Yes. Correct. It's Nashville. Yes. Smashburger and hot chicken. Correct. Are there any required hours of operation?

Thank you. So, yeah, there wouldn't be an issue. I mean, obviously, as you know, that if there is ever any crowd or issues, if the police are called into the location, let's say it gets loud, right? Let's say the people are worried about, hey, what if it gets loud? If they call the police, the police, they could put in a motion for us to come back to reduce our hours of operation.

Thank you.

Yeah, quick question. So if if someone decides to order and it's closer to 11 before 11, obviously, and you're saying you close your close operations at 11 and you may need that hour afterward to clean up. What if that becomes a trend? How would you people will do that?

I mean, the Apple shuts down at probably 1015 automatically, so people won't be able to order no matter what they do.

Okay, so if the app shuts down at 10.15, you mentioned this would hurt, what? I think you said 10.50. Oh, 10.50, okay.

10.50?

50 or 15, it's... Okay. I'm just wondering, you said, you mentioned hurting the hours for your employees. If you're not certain... If you're wanting to close at 11 or 12, how do you make that determination that this is going to affect working hours? Somewhere you have to be kind of, okay, this is the end. So I know if there's going to be a negative impact on someone's hours or not. I mean, how did you come to that conclusion?

It's all based on the demand of the customers. Let's say customers... After 11 o'clock, no one really shows up, right? We're not just going to have the place empty and people just standing. But let's say we're still noticing that people are still last minute coming, grabbing diapers, grabbing a drink, a water. a cigarette, a Tylenol PM, especially that we are near the adult, it's right up the block from us. I forgot what it's called. It's right across from the school. We find a lot of nurses, they come last minute, that they work overnight. So that's one of the things is that a lot of people, I forgot what's the name of the place, but it's literally two minutes up the road from us. They work overnight and it's based on demand. Whatever people demand, we'll serve them. So it's a neighborhood. It's not like we're near bars or we're near areas where we're worried about people coming nighttime and making... loud noises and music and drinking. We don't serve any of the things that that crowd would need. No one's going to come at 12 o'clock that want to get drunk to come grab water or a Tylenol PM. They don't want to go to sleep. So it's whatever the people demand, we'll do it for them. I understand your concern, but I want you to know that we are from this neighborhood. We do care about it. It's not just an investment that we're throwing out there.

I'm sorry. Is the nature of your business such that there would be more demand for later service on the weekends than during the week, or is it pretty much the same?

it's pretty much the same, honestly. And it doesn't make a difference because it's all, like I said, there's not people that are going out weekend, right? It doesn't matter to them. It's working class area. As she knows, most of the people in that neighborhood, they don't rent. They're like, Places that their dad owned and their grandfather. And there's the nursing place up the road, the school district up the road. So our crowd is not the kind of crowd that it's not like downtown Troy, I would say, or Lock Street in Albany.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Yes.

I'm sorry. Al, can I ask you something? Your app, is that going to determine, like you can go into that app and say, I think you were at the zoning board and you said that basically it's maybe 28 to 46% Minutes? Stops a day that people are making. Will your app tell you, if you wanted it to, when those peaks would be? Like, could you keep a record of when those peaks would be?

Yeah, of course. Okay. Yes.

Is there any way... that we can do like a trial run for say nine months and ask that they come back with their findings to see when their peaks are and go from there as far as hours. I don't know if you're going to have more gas station customers or whether you're going to have more food customer, you know? So is there any way that we can,

If you don't mind, can I answer something really quick? Sure. We don't know who our customers are going to be yet, but I know one thing for a fact. From our experience in this and for the benefit of our investment, it's not to have a crowd hanging out. Us having people hanging out or traffic or people waiting for so long, it's just going to hurt us. There is no business out there that would want to see people hanging out outside or the wrong crowd or cars having traffic. That's just going to hurt us. So it, trust me, it's, I am more concerned about traffic flow. And this is why we came again in front of this board. This is why we ended up going to La Bella, the best of the best in the area, and to TAP, the best of the best architects. We already had our approval two years ago. But when we found out, we found out that, hey, listen, this is not right. It's just going to cause traffic. It's going to cause problems. So here we are taking... Investments, again, taking two years doing all of this because we genuinely want to have the best of the best traffic flow in the area. Investment, place, gas station, restaurant. This is not just something that we just do for a living where we just go and throw gas stations and sell gas and cigarettes and beer out of it. This is something that is way different, way different than all of that. We're excited to do it in Landsenburg, especially in that area of Landsenburg because it needs it.

So I'm not familiar with any prior cases where we've had a report back situation or condition. If this were a different type of, if this were like a special use permit, you can, I believe you can time those and make it subject to renewal, but this is not that. I think you should just make up your minds what you want. the hours of operation to be, if you agree with the applicant, or if you don't, I mean, set that condition.

So if it were approved tonight, it would be an unconditional approval, essentially. But if the hours are restricted in the approval, there would be nothing that would prevent them from coming back at some future date and applying.

I don't think so. I think they could come back in the future and ask for some kind of relief from that. Yeah.

Is the question here that we're talking about the overall operation or just the food operation? Is that what you're asking? I think there are 24-hour gas stations.

In the world, yes.

I don't know where they are located. If you have a charging station, those are all 24 hours.

Correct.

So having traffic on the site, could be different than what the food is on the site. If you're focusing on just the food, there's two aspects to their operation here.

To answer her question, the food will close at 11, regardless. So the food, yes, will close at 11. But the business, for that one last hour, they'll be cleaning inside and will close probably at 12. But yes, maybe I misunderstood you, but yes, we'll close at 11.

So the food will close at 11. Correct. And there will still be people in there cleaning and whatnot. So is the store open?

Yes, while they're cleaning and stuff, until 12.

The store would be open until 12, but the food would stop at basically. Correct. So the last hour is clean up and you would be selling whatever.

If a customer comes last minute. Gas. Yes.

Until midnight.

Yeah.

Your proposal.

Correct. Yes. Yes. I probably misunderstood her.

So anybody could walk in after 11 o'clock and get their food right in the store. No food.

No food. They're already cleaning up. Just drinks and whatever they need. I guess whatever they would need or gas. after 11, but no food now.

Well, there would be, would there be groceries? Yeah, of course.

Yes, yes, yes. But no food that's being cooked.

No cooked food.

Yeah.

Okay.

Correct.

Okay. Any other questions before we have the public hearing?

We'll come back to it after we hear what the public has to say.

All right. Thank you. And now we'll open it up to public comment. Is there any member of the public here to speak on this proposal? Sure. Come on down, sir. Welcome back. Will you state your name again for the record, please?

Martin Apoka. I live at 874th Avenue. Just want to be a consistent voice that that is commercial and residential. Nobody's up at 12 o'clock at night, 11 o'clock at night. I mean, at least not in my house. And I've still got concerns for the traffic. That's going to be coming down 125th Street, turning into Old Scottish Oak Road, I guess they call it, on the plans. It's going to stop the traffic going back towards Fifth Avenue, which is already a problem with the lights there. It's a known intersection for problems. Now we have a school district that recommends that the people don't come down that road, that it go down through Pleasantdale, down near Hannaford. I mean, everybody knows about that. And I think that as much as this is moving forward and looking at the commercial aspect of it and the improvement of property and everything, nobody's given a little bit of thought to the neighborhood as a resident. People park on that road. You're going to define the road two ways with some grass and curb and whatever, narrow the road, but people park there. Most people have got like one or two parking spots in their driveways. I have a little bit more, but people park up and down that. Where they're going to be turning into this property, people park on that road where they're going to turn in. So basically there's only a lane and a half left. So are you going to tell everybody in the neighborhood that they can no longer park there? You're going to put no parking signs up so they can have access to enter this property? The same thing went over here with the drive-thru. If you're going to narrow that, people park up and down where Sunset used to be. People park all over the place. Once in a while, my vehicle will be over there. People from up the street park over there because they have no parking on Turnpike. You're going to eliminate that. I still think that there's going to be a lot more traffic there than anybody's even thinking about. And to say 20-something to 40-something through that drive-thru window, that wasn't even worth the investment for that many customers. And to say that he's going to be able to control his customers, people walk up and down from Dunkin' Donuts and the sub shop and everything and throw stuff all over the property, all over the road. Same thing's going to happen. Some people ain't going to be in the car. They're going to be grabbing food, eating it on the way, and throwing the wrappers all over the place. I'm sure that, you know, that's not his concern, but it's already going on. Now we're going to have it, you know, all night long. There's liquor bottles thrown there from the liquor store up in the plaza. I can't believe that nobody can't see that there's going to be a problem with the traffic. All the zoning board gave every single variance without any consideration to the effects that some of them are going to have on the neighborhood. Not one variance was denied. You know, I just want to be a voice for that neighborhood. And I think that, you know, I don't have no great property or anything, but I think my property value is going to go down because that place being there. Who's going to want to buy a house with, I'm going to guess, and probably two, three hundred cars going through every day, maybe more. His other operation is open to two in the morning at some times on some nights. And to say that it's the only thing in the neighborhood, Hannaford's open till 11 o'clock. So the nurses up the street, they got plenty of access to other stuff. I thank you for your time.

Thank you, sir. Is there anyone else to speak on this application?

Who would like to speak?

Go ahead, sir.

Go ahead, Jim. I'm sorry.

Jim Gulley.

Resident of Lansingburg since 1969. Seen a lot of things happen in Lansingburg. I was part of helping it grow for over eight years. Here's what I can tell you. Al has done very good with his business on the 109th. We might not all agree with some of the hours, but it just goes to show you that there's a lot of people out there that work 4 to 11 shifts, that work late, or just at that point at night they want a place to go, and there's nothing in Lansingburg. And you're right. Nobody's open late. And the problem is it's not just, you know, what you might consider people of wrongdoing out there. There's good people like myself and my friends that like to go find something late at night, grab a nice dish and they serve up some good food at 109th. And we're all looking forward to Al's venture because it's new and different. It might not be what you've seen before, but I think it's a good venture for Lansingburg because there is no other places to go. And the food places around there are, are, have established of the Italian stores, The pizza shops have always established themselves. Al is establishing himself as a dinner destination with these small dinners that they put out. And I think it's a valuable thing for a lot of families in the area. As far as staying open late, well, I think it's a good service because there are people who are not just people who drink late and stay out late. There are people who work late and have late meetings and just look for a place to grab some food. And Lansingburg is in need of that revenue and in need of that stream. We need to start you know, exercising our right to think outside the box a little bit. So I don't think it's right to limit them. And I hope you understand that I'm in full support of Al Iori's project up there and his group. They've done a wonderful job at 109th. They've cleaned it up when we asked them to. They really changed it around, and I'm sure that he's going to run a really top-notch operation up there, and you'll be proud of it years down the road. But you got to stop squeezing because, you know, you got to let the guy get open. He's got millions invested and nowhere to go. until you guys give them an opportunity. I thank you for the time.

Thank you. Yeah, thanks. Is there anyone else to speak on this application?

Yes, I do. Go ahead, Javier.

Go ahead, please.

Yeah, my name is Javier Rodriguez. I live in 892. And I'm a graduate from UAlbany for urban regional planning. I live in that neighborhood for quite a while now, about a year and a half. And I struggle eating from the neighborhood because there is no restaurant. We've got only the Chinese place. Their food sucks. I only get there to eat and they close early. Trying to call a pizza place. Most of them, they close late. They close early. The only one that closes late is the one by 15th Street. And or if I have to go and go to McDonald's or go to Albany or Latham, our neighborhood needs that kind of food. I know some of the neighbors that have concern about the hours. They may say one hour is going to be good for traffic. It's going to be good for the noise. I see it as going to attract only the working class people that they need the food. Other stores around the neighborhood, they sell alcohol, they sell all that illegal stuff, and they close at 12 o'clock. While the good business, we're trying to shut them down early. The bad business, we give them permission to open until 12 and weekends until 1. I think we are harming and affecting the good businesses. instead of attracting businesses to the area, to Troy, because that's going to increase tax dollars to the city. It's going to attract more people and residents to live in, and it's going to have a better quality of life for all the residents. I understand some of my neighbors, they may have a different view, but Me, as a working class person, this is what I need. If I'm working late and I try to get home, shower, take a walk, 11 o'clock, and he's saying the app is going to close, what, 10, 15 or something like that, that's not enough time for me to go grab my food or whatever. Again, it's going to try to push me out of that neighborhood. So I disagree with some of the neighbors and I strongly recommend and suggest that 12 hour, 12 and actually more if we could until one o'clock. Like other grocery stores who sell beer. I'm not a drinker only on Saturdays, but again, we're not trying to harm the good businesses here. We're supposed to support them and... So, yeah, I agree with the 12-hour at least until midnight. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Is there anyone else to speak?

Barb Nelson on Zoom. Go ahead, Barb.

Hey, hi, Barb Nelson here. I don't have any prepared comments. I just tuned in to see what's going on. And full disclosure, TAP is the architect for this project. But I am inspired to chime in here just because of my experience on the planning board. I really want to sympathize with the neighbor who doesn't want the traffic, doesn't want the lights on at night. I really understand that. It's kind of like downtown Monument Square. We've gotten used to having an opening there where we can see the sunset, okay? People have gotten used to this being a quiet place, but... It's an empty building. It used to be a gas station. It used to have this kind of traffic. And so the people who live right near it are just kind of spoiled by the lack of activity for a while. I think we just have to remind ourselves this is a city, and every piece of land has a highest and best use. that, you know, it is zoning and planning's responsibility to think back to that. What is the project in front of you and what is the highest and best use? Yeah, if I lived across the street, I might wish and hope that it could be a park. Or wouldn't it be great if it was a dog park? Wouldn't it be great if it's just a, you know, cute little space of green that, yeah, that I could look out on and hear the birds. That's not the project in front of you. There is no alternative here proposed other than if this project were to be denied, what do you have? You have an empty building that sits for a while and somebody else comes to try to develop it and comes back to you and continues this dialogue. This, again, these folks are our clients. So yeah, it's in our best interest to see it move forward. But as an urbanist, as an architect, as difficult as it is to deal with the emotions and the experience of the people who live right close by. I would argue that the best use for this land, the way it is situated, the location is amazing for a for a gas station and a food source, I would urge you to look favorably on this and think about what are the consequences if this were to be rejected and How would that consequence be any better for the neighbors to have an empty place? I'll tell you, vacant buildings are rarely vacant. Yeah, good stuff doesn't happen around vacant spaces. So yeah, I just urge you to think long and hard about what really is in front of you. What are the alternatives? And what is the highest and best use for this property? Thank you very much.

Okay, thank you. Is there anyone else to speak? If not, we'll close the public hearing and I'll ask the applicants first. Do you want to respond to any of that?

I'll leave it to Al if there's anything specific as it relates to the use, but I believe that we've addressed many of the comments that have been raised here this evening through previous submissions to the board. So I have nothing further to add unless the board has any additional questions for me.

All right. Do you have anything further?

No. I honestly just urge the board to try to help us open up as soon as possible because I confidently say this, that no one would ever make this place better than what we have done. The kind of work that we did on the outside and in the inside of this building, stewards, Cumberland, wouldn't even do what we did. We did We made it as beautiful as it could get, literally. And you're from the neighborhood. You've seen it. So same thing with our operation. We would do... better than anyone else that would do, and we confidently say that. I'm very confident of my team, and I'm sure this is gonna be very good for Landsenburg more specifically, and this is why we were invited, and this location was suggested for us by city officials back in 2021 by people from the neighborhood. We were... advised to please fix this location up and operate it. That's all. So thank you. And again, we will always, as we are known in the area, we always work with what the community needs and recommends. And this is why they support us. Not because we're good at what we do, but because we, yes, that's true, but we also care about their concerns and we flex our business based on what's needed. Thank you. I appreciate you.

Yeah, thank you. Yes. I have a couple of questions for the staff here. The issues have been raised about traffic concerns there. I mean, assuming that it's gotten this far before us that the city does not have traffic concerns there. Would that be correct?

Yeah, I mean, the amount of projected vehicles versus the daily traffic that this roadway sees versus what the previous thing was, I mean, it's pretty negligible versus the amount of traffic that... The increase. Yes, the increase is pretty negligible and... We were more concerned with the traffic flow patterns and circulation, which, again, they've made revisions and adjustments to.

I think the definition of the roadways is, I think, from an engineering standpoint, is expected to improve traffic flow and to be safer for the general public. Is that correct?

Definitely, versus the existing configuration. Yeah. There's also been, you know, a decline in traffic counts there over the past couple years, which maybe indicates closure of businesses or activity in Lansingburg. And so, you know, this, again, this is zoned as mixed use. And a lot, most of that area of Fifth Ave is. So, yeah, in our opinion, it fits the zoning, you know.

Okay. And then the other issue, I think that's, I'm not, I'm not sure what Tony's issue is. I think I understand it with respect to the neighborhood and all. But to the extent that litter and that kind of disruption of the neighborhood is concerned, is that something that codes addresses if that eventuates? Or is it just something that neighbors have to live with if it happens, I guess?

Yeah, I mean, obviously, the police department and code enforcement have, you know, jurisdiction to act based on the noise ordinance of the city of Troy. Enforcement can be challenging. I think, yeah, it's up to you guys to...

It's difficult to hold the... applicant accountable for litter that's off-premises. But he is totally responsible for litter on-premises and maintaining adequate facilities for people to throw away items that they take out of the store. And so one of the public speakers mentioned liquor bottles get thrown out. Well, that liquor store is a fairly substantial distance away in a plaza. And those kinds of things are one of the detriments, I guess, of urban life. But obviously, it is still against the law of litter and things like that.

I guess my I'm one of those people that don't usually get home till late, and I'm always looking for gas or food or something late at night. So I kind of appreciate a place that's open. but I understand it's a residential neighborhood too. So it's kind of, you know, I've got mixed feelings about all of this. I think, you know, if it were near my home, I would run at a certain time that for there to be some kind of repose in the neighborhood and an activity to stop or tamp down. I'm very sympathetic to the, business owner that's you know one trying to provide a service and two to make a return on his investment and his efforts there so i'm kind of up in the air about it tony i'm hoping you're going to give us a magic uh resolution that will solve all these questions um my magic resolution al is going to be i will trust you and i will be watching

Um, so I really hope we don't hear any complaints from the neighbors about the traffic, uh, about noise or anything else that's going to happen. Um, if you want us close down at 11 o'clock for your food and stay open until 12. Okay. I'm watching.

May I ask a question? I don't know that I received an answer. So I'm just confirming that grease storage.

Inside.

Inside. Thank you.

Okay. The other two staff recommendations, have they been taken care of being considered or Department of Engineering and then the sidewalks around the whole parcel, is anything happening there?

You guys are the deciding factor on those things. So if you guys are looking at that as a condition, then, you know, if you see the sense in it, you know, otherwise I assume that the applicant will reach out to engineering for a curb closure or street opening permits.

Okay. To answer your question, I won't let you down. And if I ever mess up, you can hold me from my ears, accountable for whatever goes wrong. So you're from the neighborhood. And again, it took us a while to gain the respect and the trust of the people. So we're not going to jeopardize it forever. pickup window or for trash on the premises. I mean, no one's going to invest $2 million over that right now, almost 2.6. For us to see trash around the area or around the place, we're going to also have to clean it up like we do with our other locations. We have staff for the last hour, they go clean the parking lot, the street around the parking lot, because having trash outside just brings the wrong vibe, I would say. So these are concerns that we're very concerned about as well. And we obviously know how to handle it. We're experienced at this.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you, Al. Yeah, I mean, I'm not in favor of sidewalks around the whole parcel. Yeah, I don't think that would work at all.

It works in nowhere. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I also have mixed feelings on the hours of operation. I mean, it does, it is zoned this way, but it neighbors... the residential areas. And I'll just say to Al, I'm going to at least push for codes and police to come after you if there's issues there as much as we possibly can. But he's up here. He's public. He owns other buildings in this. I'm sure he's going to be back through here again. Hopefully it hasn't been too painful. So... We always have some type of... I was trying to say that more in a fashion.

Peter, Barb Nelson's raised her hand again. Barb Nelson's raised her hand again. If you want to allow more, it's up to you.

Barb, you have something further you want to say? I do.

I do. Sidewalks. Sidewalks are an important urban amenity. They make our city accessible. They give kids ways to walk safely home. I have a hard time letting go of sidewalks. I didn't realize that was being reconsidered. I like the plan the way it's submitted. Please rethink that comment. Thanks. Bye.

All right. Thank you. All right. So any board members, anything else you want to?

Yeah, I was just there. There are sidewalks on the site plan.

I don't have 25th and 5th.

I have concerns with them crossing the drive aisle there. You know, there's things written in our code that doesn't recommend that pedestrians across. There's also not ADA curb ramps on the other side of the street. I think. Any additional sidewalks requires a further look and a more cohesive strategy.

The way it's designed now, the foot traffic is to the front of the building, not to where the pickup window is. Sidewalks to that end of the building don't seem to be as useful. So... I've seen sidewalks to nowhere just yesterday. Whose idea was that? We do have a nice green space on the other side. Hopefully, you can maintain that. And the neighbors, maybe that would help a little bit. And I know there are some comments about parking. Not on your site. I mean, that's not something you can control. Residential parking is, you know, that always comes up, but, you know, fewer cars would be better. But you sell gas, so you need more cars. As far as, you know, hours of operation, I don't know if we have as a planning board to, you know, kind of dictate or have a jurisdiction over that, do we?

Well, I think we can make a condition. We could. Yeah.

Yeah, but you're going to find out how that's going to work out for you anyway. I'm sure you've been there enough to see what cars are going by and when they're going by. And if your franchise doesn't have anything in the agreement saying you have to be open until a certain hour, it's kind of up to you on that. As far as the food, I mean, I know the food business usually don't make a lot after midnight or after 1 p.m. or after 11 even.

So the applicant has proposed 6 to 12, if I heard correctly. You can limit to that.

Yeah, I think he said the store would be open 6 to 12, 6 a.m. to 12 midnight, the food service part of it.

The prepared food. The prepared food, he said, would shut down at 11 or so. But if you don't want them to be open after 12, you know, you could. Yeah, I mean, you know.

So those are my comments. I'm prepared to look forward. Tonya, do you have anything further?

If we're going to make a motion, then I suggest that the hours will be 6 to 12. All right. Nothing after 12 o'clock.

Yeah, so we decided that. So, I mean, you said that the app shuts down at 10.50 or 10.15?

Either or. No, I thought you said 35 minutes before. So is it 10.50? 10.50.

So your last order would be at the pickup window, say 1130 tops.

Yeah.

So you'd basically be out of the, you'd be open till midnight and you, the store would be closed at midnight.

Everyone's gone. So that gives you enough time to clean up and go. And, um, Can we suggest that the app closes at 10.15 to make sure that everybody is up and going? Can we do that? He said it could be either 10.15 or 10.50.

No, I understand, but the app is actually created by the franchise. He's a franchisee. So the company that created the app is this franchise. You can, yeah.

I want to let you know, I can't control the app, but I can control that the last customer would pick up Like everybody would be out the building by 12. That's what I can control. But so 12 o'clock, everyone will be home, sweet home.

But you can stop taking orders at whatever time.

Yeah, I mean, you need to because the guys, they need time. But he knows about the restaurant business. They need about an hour to clean up or more to clean up and all that. And yeah, so we do have to leave. I mean, close the kitchen by 11 anyways. Okay.

All right, so if there's no further discussion, I guess we'll entertain whatever motion you wanna make.

Mr. Chairman, do we need to close the public hearing? I think we did. Okay, I didn't check that.

We did close the public hearing and then we had an addendum for a minute there. Great, thank you. We'll close that too. All right. Okay, thank you. Is there a motion?

I'd like to make a motion to approve this project and move forward.

Do you want to include the hours that the applicant has suggested? In this motion, I'm not including those hours. Okay. Not referencing the hours. Okay. Is there a second? Second. Discussion? All in favor, say, want to call the roll, Louie? We need to call the roll. Eric, do we need to call the roll or just voice vote is okay?

I can take a voice vote. We can see if someone wants to vote no, they should say so.

Okay. All right. So all in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed, say no. The motion carries unanimously. Congratulations. Good luck. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Remember, you don't want Tony on your case, so... We're committed to this. Thanks, everyone.

Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, everyone. Appreciate it. Thanks, Eric. Thanks, Chris.

2026 0046 Lansingburg Gateway.

That's what I said.

He's going to go to the mayor.

How are you, sir? Could you identify yourself for the record, please?

Absolutely. Good evening, everybody. My name is Andrew Shriver. I am the development lead for the Lansingburg Gateway Project. So tonight I will be presenting the project overall, talking about it. I will then pass the mic to our site engineer, Kelsey Carr from LaBella. She will then pass the mic to Chris Berg from Fifth Street Architecture, our architect. And then Kelsey will close it out with a couple of additional comments. Tonight I'll be speaking about the Lansingburg Gateway Project, which is the redevelopment of four parcels in Lansingburg. It's located in the waterfront mixed-use district, the neighborhood four development intensity zone with a resilient waterfront and flood risk overlay. You can see both zones identified there with the parcels hatched in black. What we're asking tonight is is that the application be accepted, which it has been, that this board declare lead agency under Seeker, and that I'll also note Kelsey is going to review a couple of variances that we will be requesting from the zoning board in parallel. So again, I am Andrew Shriver. I'm part of a development team comprised of three groups. I am Attic Labs, so I am the development lead. I found the site. I put it in contract. I will be overseeing the entitlement process in addition to working with the local municipality, the city of Troy, to bring this vision to fruition. Rockabill Consulting and Development is our financing partner. They have Years of experience putting financing together for projects like this with a lot of experience, especially working with the state. They have a very long track record in the Hudson Valley as well as New York City. And then AHC is our third development and construction partner and our construction partner. They're a family-owned business in existence for over 50 years, led by a father-son team. They have built multiple projects in the Capital Region and the Mid-Hudson Valley. Previous projects that we've worked on together, Zero Place in New Paltz, which opened in fall of 22, was a net zero mixed-use building, LEED Platinum. It won a 2023 Housing Innovation Grant. Then the lofts at the foundry, which was an adaptive reuse of a historic factory building, which had sat empty, or at least this portion, for 40 years, which was started in August of 2020 and completed in the fall of 2023. It won a 2025 New York State Excellence in Historic Preservation Award. And then one Lafayette, which will be starting in the fall, also in Newburgh. It's a 192,000 square foot mixed-use building, 144 units with 9,000 square feet of retail with a daycare anchor. It includes an interior courtyard, gym, community room, and underground parking. So the site today, as you all well know, this is the former site of Lansingburg Price Shopper, Eckert Drugstore, and Burger King. It's about 6.3 acres. Presently, the site has been... unused or stagnant for about five to six years, I believe. And as a result, has sort of just sat there. I think any conversation about this site has to start with the fact that it has sat there for some time. And this represents an opportunity to reactivate that site and reactivate the waterfront. So I just want to take a moment to talk about the comprehensive plan for this portion of the city. as adopted, I believe in, yes, 2018. So the city at that time had visioned Second Avenue as a key Northern gateway into Troy, connecting a mixed use spine, a long second, two to three story mixed use was the norm, four to five stories anticipated where parking and the street wall was maintained. requires ground floor commercial on second and the aspiration of a continuous waterfront trail linking the boat launch at the southern end to the bridge at the northern end, as well as on street parking in commercial areas. So the project at the glance, we have put together a project that includes 205 workforce residential units, 110 one bedrooms, 52 bedrooms, and 45 three bedrooms. It will include 11,000 square feet of ground floor commercial. The portion of the site along the waterfront is 766 feet, so a substantial amount of waterfront, and it will include 205 off-street parking spaces. I just want to note that we are working with the city to pursue grant funding for a range of public priorities. It's a little early to get into the specifics of that, but we are working with them. And as we coalesce around a strategy, their priorities I believe there will be more information to share. I just want to state that at the state level, housing is a priority. And when you bring a project like this to the table, it gets their attention. It is an opportunity to leverage the resources at the state level to drive improvements in a community. So this is not just a housing project is an opportunity to go to the state and say, we have an amazing project and we'd like to make other improvements to this area that are needed. Public private partnerships really are the key to investment that resonates throughout a community. I'll just say, you know, some potential priorities. There's streetscape improvements. There is sewer and water infrastructure improvements. And then, of course, the boat launch to the south. I just want to talk a little bit about workforce housing and who it serves and what it costs. Typically, people choose communities to live in because their families are there, they grew up there, or their jobs are there. We do not build housing beyond what is demanded in an area. It would not make sense. There's no artificial inflation of capacity. We are meeting what is needed in a moment in time in which housing is very difficult to secure for residents across the state, if not the country. Our marketing is local. We do not broadcast regionally. Lease of advertising is targeted to the area. And then I'll just say, you know, this kind of housing is generally occupied by teachers, nurses, tradespeople, young families and older residents looking to downsize. Right. So there's a large compendia. There's a there's a wide range of people for whom this housing is appropriate based off. 2026 HUD area median income calculations, which are done based on census tracts. I have a table here which shows what rents would be for residents in this building. The AMI brackets would run from 30% to 80%, with the majority of those units being between 50% and 60%. So a one-bedroom would be about 1,150 at 50% AMI and 1,380 at 60% AMI. That being said... AMI guidance does shift year to year. So these are not hard numbers, but this is meant to give you an idea of what rents will likely be. And then I'll just say, in addition to that, you know, this housing is very stable. Rent increases are overseen by the state. Typically they range from anywhere from three to 5%, but it is stable housing that people can afford. And then I just want to know, these projects are managed in-house. We do not go to a third-party management company. We oversee them. So it's owner-operated. We have a local presence. The office is about a 60-minute drive. And we're directly accountable. We don't have an outsourced call center. Our employees respond to calls. Everything's under one roof, and when you build a building and then you manage it, you retain all the information that went into building it so that when you manage it, you understand what you need to do to maintain a successful building. I'll just say we have high operating standards when it comes to oversight. We have a tenant portal. We do preventative maintenance. We have a proven track record. We have a number of buildings under management, and this management company has been in operation for 10 years. i'm going to pass it over now to kelsey carr who's going to talk about the site plan and various other aspects of our application good evening

So this aerial image is a perfect picture of what the site is today. It's a large commercial property that is highly impervious. So right now the property sits at about 82% impervious surfaces. And as it is now, the existing rear access drive is only about 25 foot setback from the mean high watermark of the river. So not a substantial setback or really any space currently to provide waterfront access or pedestrian oriented space. There are currently three access drives into the site, two at the signalized intersections with 124th and 125th streets, and then one at the center along the Second Avenue frontage. So this is the survey that was prepared. We did do a full subsurface utility engineering. So all of the utility locations that are in the plans are accurate. We're done through GPR and other technologies. So there are a bunch of, we'll get into this a little bit more, but there's a bunch of utility infrastructure that is really part of what's driving the design. So this is our proposed site plan. So the site layout was carefully designed to balance the residential and commercial density and the parking needed to support that with the need to establish a pedestrian oriented streetscape, as well as the protection of the view corridors that exist at 124th and 125th down to the river, as well as the need to screen the parking at both the frontage and the waterfront. So the design incorporates a complete streets approach that includes 21 new parallel parking spaces along the west side of Second Avenue. There will be new granite curb, a porous maintenance strip, and new concrete sidewalks with a strong commercial presence along the frontage to really activate that space. For site access, the proposed design will eliminate the middle access drive that is currently unsignalized and will maintain the two existing access drives at 124th and 125th at the existing traffic lights. By aligning those drives with the intersections, it will remove any conflict between vehicles that are queuing at those lights and the private access drives into the property. For off-street parking, there will be two parking lots that will be tucked in between the three buildings with parking provided at a ratio of one space per unit. There will also be the 21 parallel parking spaces along Second Ave, which will support the commercial uses. As part of our next mission, we will be showing the location for EV charging stations, as is required by the code, as well as HCR. And I think it's also important to note that there is an existing CDTA bus stop for the Bus Plus Blue Line at the frontage near the 124th Street intersection. We also included obviously the pedestrian amenities with sidewalks throughout the site, access back to the river, and short and long-term bike storage as required by the code. So we did prepare a transportation demand management plan, and this shows that the project will not have a negative impact on traffic. When comparing the former commercial uses to the proposed mix of commercial and workforce housing, the proposed project will generate only a slight increase of about 46 trips in the AM peak and a significant reduction in the PM peaks of about 303 trips. So a slight increase in the morning, a pretty significant decrease in the PM. The parking analysis also shows that through the access to public transportation, promotion of bike use, the use of carpooling, and through educating the tenants about available alternative options to single occupancy vehicles, the project will result in actually a parking surplus of about 40, sorry, 34 spaces based on the 226 that are proposed. We're also working on a site access and operational analysis of the existing signals at 124th and 125th to further confirm that there will be no impacts to the traffic flow on Second Avenue. And with that, I'll turn it over to Chris to talk about the architecture.

Hi, everyone. I'm Chris Berg from Fifth Street Architecture. for a company in Newburgh that does multifamily housing, mixed-use housing. So what we are proposing to do is kind of everything that the Price Chopper building is not. It's called a gateway for a couple of reasons. One, it's to introduce people coming from the north into the city. And it's also a gateway to the west and opens up vistas and view sheds to the river, to the sunset from 125th and 124th streets. uh we did carefully locate the buildings and and worked with the massing to keep them um low enough but also deep enough to provide the housing um that we could as well as um to keep the buildings as far back from the river um but also close to the street um to engage the street and to welcome people who are driving by uh, to, um, use the retail spaces, um, on second Avenue. Um, We have, as Kelsey was saying, we have retail in the three buildings on 2nd Ave that people won't have to go into the parking lots to utilize. They can stop or walk from 2nd Ave. The apartment complexes will be entered from the parking lot sides. Each of the buildings from the south, we've been calling it building, the south building is building one, the middle building is two, and the north building is building three. Buildings one and two will each come, buildings one and three will each have around 40 apartments, and the main building in the middle with the courtyard will have approximately 120 apartments. Like we said, we're trying to keep the buildings as close to the street as possible so people can... What we're trying to do is trying to keep the parking as far from the river as possible and the buildings as far from the river as possible to maintain that viewshed that's important for the future park, as well as views from the bridge and across the river. These are some of the massing studies that we've done are simply that, they're just massing studies. We do hope to get, we're in receipt of the staff's comments and we do plan on addressing some of them more carefully, but this is just a way to start to understand the impact and the volumes that we're working with. Because of the issues with the, With the floodplain, the buildings are slightly elevated. The retail will be below them, and the residential units will all be on basically the second floor. The buildings one and three are each three stories of residential, and the middle building will be the taller one, which will be four stories. Again, what was important to us was to open up some of the view sheds. This is a view from 124th Street towards the river. And of course, the view from the river is also important to us too. giving the idea of kind of like boathouses in a way. But hopefully setback, setback enough over setback from the river enough, far exceeding what is required by the setback regulations. And I think I'll pass it on back to Kelsey.

Okay, so the project is considered a type one action under Seeker because of the number of units and the population of the city. So a full environmental assessment form was submitted. So this slide kind of gives a few of the highlights. We did complete both phase one and phase two environmental site assessments, which came back with no major concerns. The site is located in a mapped archaeological buffer area and is also in the vicinity of several structures that are eligible for listing on the historic registry. So we did initiate consultation with SHPO on May 26th, and we should have their response by the end of the month. As you know, we're adjacent to the Hudson River, but we had our wetland scientists go out and they did not find any fringe wetlands that would create additional need for setbacks at the river. The site is also located in proximity to Bald Eagle, which is likely a nest on Peebles Island. So we are also coordinating with U.S. Fish and Wildlife. As previously noted, the property is located in the 100-year floodplain, so the residential level has been set to provide two feet of freeboard above the design flood elevation, and other flood design regulations will be followed. In addition to what will be a 25% reduction in the site impervious cover, The design also proposes to disconnect 100% of the site stormwater from the city's combined sewer system. So right now, a good portion of the site basically from the building forward actually drains to the combined sewer system. So all of that will be eliminated and we're now going to send the stormwater to the rear of the property and then to the south where there is a separate storm sewer on the Lansingburg boat launch property. So this will provide significant benefit to both the combined sewer and the flooding issues that exist at Second Avenue today. So overall, I would say there are no major environmental concerns that have been identified through our evaluation. So as Andrew mentioned, we have some variances that we have requested for the project. I would say most of it is being triggered by some pretty significant site constraints that we are dealing with. So the variance application was submitted last week and that included eight variances. And based on the staff report, we are looking at potentially the need to add a few more, but obviously we're trying to reduce the number as much as we can. So this slide identifies the eight that we are requesting at this time. So in terms of the site conditions that are driving these, the floodplain is one of the biggest pieces. So that forces that residential level to be elevated that two feet above the design flood and so that both increases the overall height of the building as well as causing the first floor commercial spaces to exceed the maximum story height of 14 feet so it's going to range probably about like 16 and a half to 18 and a half feet but from the renderings you'll see that the upper portion of that will have residential scale windows to so that it won't be perceived as being so tall um and then there as we mentioned there's the existing signalized access points um to the property and we felt both for traffic flow as well as pedestrian safety it was important to maintain those access points into the property um and then With those two roadways coming down, we wanted to also maintain those important view corridors down to the river. So having those two points that really limited the ability to maximize the building frontage so that we didn't sacrifice parking, but also we're balancing protecting of the views from both the frontage and the waterfront. And when it comes to the two parking setback variances, we feel that the current design that kind of tucks those parking lots in between the three buildings is really the best case scenario in that we're providing adequate screening at the frontage as well as a very large buffer at the waterfront. There's also existing both private and public utilities that are located either on or directly adjacent to our property. And that, for instance, there's a private sanitary sewer that actually runs parallel with the northern property line that serves a house that's kind of tucked in by the bridge. So that Service obviously needs to be maintained. That's a service to that house. So that forced the northern building to be set back that 10 feet from the property line where the zoning requires a five foot maximum setback. There's also both. water mains as well as sanitary mains along the frontage, including a water main that's basically on and straddling the eastern property line, the second property line. Then there's sanitary sewer that is beneath the sidewalk. All of those utilities in that area are really driving potentially the need to either eliminate or greatly reduce the number of street trees being provided. We are coordinating directly with the city arborist, to try to do everything we can. I mean, obviously, we don't want to eliminate street trees if possible. So we're working with them to try to see what we can do there. And then we're also working with the Department of Public Utilities to figure out the best arrangement to protect those utilities with our development.

Thank you, Kelsey. So So in short, the timeline that we are hoping to achieve with this planning board in addition to the ZBA is that you guys declare a lead agency tonight. That is the business we have in front of you in addition to discuss this project. We'll have our first CBA meeting on July 1st. On July 22nd, we'll be back for our second planning board meeting where there will be a public hearing. and hopefully a negative seeker declaration. We'll be back at the ZBA on August 5th, hopefully for our variances to be approved. And then on August 18th at our third planning board meeting, we're hoping to achieve site plan approval. In terms of how that fits into the larger project plan, we'll be hoping then in the fall to firm up a number of Grant applications we're working with the city to achieve to support our site in addition to the general area. We hope to start engaging the state in January regarding financing for the project with a goal of closing with the state in July. And then we'd be starting construction in August with the goal of finishing the project in September of 2029. I just want to go back quickly and just highlight two things. This design right now is preliminary. There's a lot of work to be done. We're interested in hearing your comments tonight. So I just want to acknowledge that, number one. Number two, I really want to stress the way that these buildings are located on this site is meant to engage the community. You're going to have 10,000 square feet of retail on that street. We want people walking there. We don't want it set too far back that it feels inaccessible. We want this to feel like a community that is walkable, where people engage and live in. All right. So I just really want to highlight those two points. So. I'll end there. You know, Lansingburg has a long history. This project is meant to honor that. It is meant to serve as a marquee project in this neighborhood and a northern entranceway into Troy. Thank you.

I have a couple of questions. Is all the retail going to be in the middle building or are all three going to have commercial space?

All three will have commercial space.

And what would your target tenants be for the commercial space?

Great question. We've not done yet a full sort of analysis of what the community needs, but some goals are to have a gym, both to serve residents and the community. I am aware that daycare is lacking, and I know that is a priority throughout the state. You know, the the trifecta of retail to some extent when serving a neighborhood like this is an area where you can sort of work, exercise. And if you have a child, you have daycare. And so sometimes when you have co-working, a gym and daycare, you've created a space. situation where parents and or people without parents can go work and go to the gym. They're checking a lot of boxes in one location. I'm not yet prepared to say that those three are appropriate here, but often you want your retail businesses to create synergies between them, between each other. It's a term called agglomeration. When you have like kind businesses together, they feed each other and create a place where people come to service multiple needs.

Would your housing units have their own laundry facilities? Yes.

Individual? There would be laundry rooms. Each floor.

Would there be on-site management? For our on-site management?

There would not be, our management company is close by, though, within 60 minutes, and we are aware of other projects that have had issues, and this is not that project. This is housing that is affordable for your residents. There are no special populations intended for this building. This is for people that have jobs, hence workforce.

You mentioned retail and wanting it to be sort of engaging for people to walk up to. And then you said that the parking spaces for the residents are going to be as far back from the road, but as far enough from the back of the property. Is that going to alter the road second half in front of where this retail space will be? Because on the diagram, it looks like kind of set back a little bit from where it currently is.

Yeah, so the curb line at the CDTA bus stop is remaining the same. To provide the parallel parking, the curb has to be offset toward the property about two and a half feet.

How about... I guess bike lanes have become a big deal.

So as designed right now, the restriping of the road would provide one 13-foot lane in each direction, which is suitable for a shared bike lane, and then an 11-foot wide turning lane in the middle.

PB, David Ensign he or him, You know the questions will have asked for a little public comment, but does anybody have.

PB, David Ensign he or him, One quick question on the backside of the property towards the river, I see a path, and that is going to tie into neighboring pass is accessible to the public what's going to happen there it's.

It's a great question. So we're presently working with the city to identify grant funding to support that pathway. There are two connecting sites, right? The boat launch to the south, which in the past, the city has explored the potential of redesigning that boat launch as a more sort of dedicated park. And then to the north, you have the Walgreens, which connects to the bridge. And so in order for that path to be continuous at a minimum to that bridge, from the park to that bridge, there's our site and then there's the Walgreens site. And so working in concert with the city, one to use this project to catalyze funds from the state to support that effort, in addition to obtaining a access agreement with the walgreens site so any access agreement you would agree to maintain that property uh maintain the path maintain everything around the path even if it's available for the public to cross right now the way the city has structured or those agreements generally is that the city maintains those paths but um you know we are open to working with the city right you know shouldn't be a lot to maintain a path in that area.

Other questions?

Yeah, I have a question for Kelsey. You said that the front, the parking in the front for the commercial spaces, you're only moving the street back two and a half feet. Yes. And you're going to have a bike lane. Yes. It'd be a shared vehicle bike lane. Yes. That's not, I have never seen any car parked on second Avenue and only giving them two and a half feet. That's not much.

Well, so there's the bump out from the CDTI bus stop already. So the parking stall will be eight feet deep, like eight by 22, which is a normal parallel parking stall. Oh, so to provide that you only have to push the curb back to two and a half feet.

The street is a little wider. Wider street.

Yeah, right now it's a little strange in that there's kind of an extra turn lane that used to go into the Price Chopper property. So vehicles don't, it's not, the striping is not very apparent currently. People use it. Yeah. But it's wide enough to be multiple lanes, but I think we're proposing that it would be re-striped so that it would be consistent, one lane in each direction, turn lane, and then parallel parking.

You mentioned that the residency units are going to be, what, two feet above free board? Yeah. How about the retail units? What's the relation, elevation?

so the front of the property is around elevation like 28 to 30. um the design flood elevation is 34.2 um so the commercial obviously will be need to be designed to flood regulations chris is there any problems on second avenue with all the water coming down with flooding that usually happens on second avenue is that going to be addressed

There are issues. A lot of issues. Yeah. We are exploring along with LaBella and working with them and looking at grant opportunities. And it's something I was already before this project even got proposed planning to look at, have an engineer look at. So well aware of them. Need to learn more.

And I'll just add, as I already said, we are making major efforts to eliminate the stormwater from the property from entering that combined sewer, which should help a lot.

That's what I was just about to say. Regardless, this should be an improvement.

So the issue of, when we say flooding, there's two different kinds of flooding. There's the Hudson River flooding, and then there's ponding because there's nowhere for the water from a storm.

I mean, everything comes down from this street.

Yeah, again, I've looked at it. I mean, there is apparent grading issues on second that you can see where a local bull could just be created. But then I also have heard other accounts that make it seem like it could be a capacity issue as well as a storm source. So looking further at it.

Any other questions, comments before we ask for public comment?

We'll come back. Yeah, they're going to be here for a couple months. Yeah.

All right.

Thank you.

Is there anyone here to speak on this application? Yes. Come on down and identify yourself for the record, please.

Hi, my name is Carson. I live on 11th Street. I won't be too critical, because I understand we're very, very early in this. But first thing that kind of hit me off the bat is a shared bike lane is not really a bike lane. It's just a wider lane for cars. So let's not kid ourselves and pretend that it is. So if we could do an actual bike lane or a parking protected bike lane, that would be awesome, especially for someone like me that bikes a lot and has biked around here. It's not super fun to ride in the lane with cars. Second, I also know we're very, very early. So maybe there's a potential we could explore doing some of this as tuck under parking and increasing some green space here because, you know, looking at this, there's not a whole lot of... I don't look like I can access the riverfront from here. I don't really look invited to do that. And... Yeah, maybe being a little hesitant to grant variances to put so much surface parking everywhere. And I would also encourage, again, since we're so early in this, let's make something that looks... I know these are massing renders. These are supposed to look one step further than a box. But let's make something that looks a little nicer, since we have this big kind of blank space here. It's a really great opportunity. I'm really glad we're building something here. It's definitely better than the abandoned price chopper. But... you know, let's do something nice with our big blank slate on the Hudson River. This is a great site to do something really awesome. Let's do diligence and make it nice.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you. Is there anyone else?

My name is John. I live at 871 3rd Avenue.

Last name?

McQueenie. And it was great to hear about the storm being addressed, the stormwater, because being a lifelong resident of this area here, Second Avenue has been shut down when we get heavy rain from anywhere from the middle of 123rd, 24th to, I've seen it as far as 126th Street. Mm-hmm. maybe two, two and a half feet deep. So that was great to hear that was being addressed. My question is building in a flood zone, because that area is in a 100-year floodplain, how is it going to affect our property at 871, 877, 869 McDonald Funeral Home, that block, how is that building of the undertaking of building this property, how is it going to affect our houses? And one more question I was asked was, how is it going to affect emergency personnel and sanitation?

Okay, thank you. Thank you. I know the city will be right on top of those last two items, I'm sure. Is there anyone else who wants to speak? Yes, come on down.

Hello, everyone. Stephen Maples, South Troy. A couple of quick comments. I would agree with one of the last speakers that if we're moving the curb line anyway, I feel like we should have an opportunity to try some interesting designs for bike lanes, perhaps something that goes behind the bus stop. There's a lot of potential to do some interesting designs there. my other main comment the main part of my comment um is just sort of pointing out that you know this is the waterfront mixed use um and just to pull that that verbiage straight from uh from the ordinance um you know supports a vibrant mix of commercial and residential uses along the hudson river waterfront waterfront focusing opportunities for waterfront enhanced uses and so on so on And I think that it is early days, but I think a little bit more intention with how that interplay with the building to the waterfront could use a bit more development of those ideas, sort of what the gentleman was saying. Currently, there's not a ton of drawing people down to the waterfront. Maybe there is something to be done there. The other part of it is it's a neighborhood four zone that is defined by a cohesive, safe, walkable streetscape that is maintained by strong build to lines and scale. We went out of our way in the law to say strong build to lines. So with asking for the variances here, there seems like there's an opportunity to both better to have a more complete street wall with the design that will result in a lot less variances that are necessary. It would not necessarily, you could potentially cover up some of the surface parking, wouldn't be quite as an eyesore. I do understand that the, you know, sort of the verbiage in the Hudson River overlay is does talk about view sheds, but I feel like maybe this particular design is sort of over-indexing on the view sheds and maybe not quite enough on that strong street wall, which is exactly what both the comprehensive plan and our zoning call for. So I think there's still some potential for a little bit of design manipulation to get us to where this would be I think it's already a fantastic idea. I think there's just like a few of these little tweaks that we've got going. But overall, I think this is an incredible idea. I highly support it and hope to see a couple more of these improvements. So thank you.

Thank you, Steve.

Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak? I have plenty of other opportunities, I think, along the way. Anybody else tonight?

Just a couple of folks on Zoom. There's a few folks on Zoom that would like to speak. Yeah. Barb, you had your hand up first, so go on ahead.

Great, thank you very much. I'm Barb Nelson, 37 Bell Avenue, also architect and director down at TAP Inc. Gosh, where do I start? Very happy to hear that this is preliminary. This needs several, several goes around back on the drawing board. I'm sorry, there's just a lack of creativity here that I have to note. These look like warehouses for low-income people. And, you know, wrapped with... you know, vinyl siding. We have to do better. We expect far better from our developers who propose projects downtown and, you know, closer to downtown. So Lansingburg deserves just as much. Let me see. So this is an amazing rare opportunity to build a creative environment for housing and access to the river. Access not only for motorists driving by, you're breaking the street line so that, oh, I'm driving by and I can see there's a river over there. Access for the people who live there, for the people who live across the street, So that needs some work. This design allows for about 12 out of 200 units to actually look out their window and see the river. And I know we can do better. Ground floor commercial. Let's see a market study. Let's see who's moving in because Amazon has killed the storefront. And yep, if we can get a daycare center, absolutely great. But please, before you approve this project, have some guarantee that something will activate those spaces and they will not sit empty. Let's see. The proposal states that the riverfront walkway will be built if funding can be found by the city. Wow. This board and the zoning board has the authority to require that developers actually contribute to city infrastructure, not just partner with the city to say, hey, city, you build my sidewalk, you build my riverfront access, and I'll build this great building for you. So I would like the city staff to be a little braver. No, we can't just build this and then say, oh, it's a shame the city never found the money for that riverfront parkway. No, the developer needs to be responsible for this several hundred feet of a macadam walkway and some landings. Again, not very creative, not conducive to picnics or, yeah, it needs... They need some work on the drawing board. let's see, the developer is asking for a lot of variances. This is a huge site, and we have a zoning ordinance that we paid dearly for, a million dollars, and it is state-of-the-art. It's only a few years old. If the architects and engineers, and I have great confidence in LaBella, I don't know the folks from Newburgh, but If we can't build something here that meets our zoning ordinance and our comprehensive plan, let me just say we can. I know we can. Creative minds can make this work without asking you for a handful of variances. Zoning ordinances are designed to avoid the need for variances because we've fully vetted how we want sites like this to be developed. Site constraints. This site is huge. Put the parking below the buildings. I have to do it on my project. Other people have to do it on their project. It costs more. But these buildings, the way we see them now, are so inexpensive to build. I look at these acres of roof, and they're draining water into gutters and downspouts. And then where are they going? It's just, it's an ice disaster. Let's really understand how the stormwater is going to be managed. This is just the least inexpensive roof you can put on a building. You throw up the trusses, you put up the 25-year asphalt and let it drain off, you know, off the roof into gutters and watch the ice jam up. This proposal multiplies the existing project you know, if Price Chopper were occupied, this is five times the water and sewer usage that Price Chopper ever posed for the system. So not only have you got stormwater coming down the hill, ponding in 2nd Street, we've got the impervious areas here, we've got 500%. of the sewer and water stress on our system. So I trust our engineering department to thoroughly vet that and figure that out. I've got a long list here. I'll just keep, I'll let someone else speak. I'm curious, who is the city arborist? I'd like to know that. I'd like to be in touch with them. Yeah, so sorry to rant. I'm not really, I don't intend to rant. I just really want to be on record that we can do better. We expect better. Lansingburg deserves better. And I'll just hold out hope that the next meeting is going to show me, prove me wrong on so many fronts. Thank you very much. Okay, thank you.

Who's next?

Go ahead, Javier.

Yes, this is Javier again, Javier Rodriguez, 892. With all due respect, by looking at this design, It looks like it's more of just profit and investment gain for the developer. I mean, he's asking the city for grants, the state for grants, and for what, to invest in the infrastructure? As far as I know, a developer is supposed to invest in the infrastructure for the city, not vice versa. And with all due respect, this design, it just looks like trying to put as many units as you could to gain profits. I expected it to be way better, more of, to match the city, basically, what we live in, in Lansenburg. And I think I heard they were dedicating one parking space for each unit. So what happens to the, the two and the three bedroom apartments. Those people got to be couples at least, a husband and a wife, a man and a woman or whoever. At least they got to have two cars. So where are they going to park? Again, we have for the residents, I'm a resident. Am I going to have access to the waterfront? Are we going to enjoy the waterfront that we have? I mean, I want to see a design, a better design and a better plan for me as a resident to enjoy the investment that the city, the state and the developer will put in this parcel. And I hope for the committee to ask for a better design. Thank you.

Is that it, sir?

No more comments. Next? Yeah, that's it. Thank you. There's no more comments.

Nobody else? Okay. Anybody else that's here want to speak now? Okay, thank you. Wasn't a public hearing anyways. We will terminate the public discussion. We'll go back to board discussion. I have a question for you folks. I couldn't exactly hear what you were saying about the floodplain, the flood zone. So are you saying that the commercial space is going to be in the 100-year floodplain? Yes. And you just accept that as a risk?

Speak into the mic, please.

Do you do anything to mitigate that? Or when it happens, it happens?

So we are not within a floodway. So technically, we're not subject to mitigating the volume associated with the development in terms of a cut fill.

I understand. But I'm asking, when you build this, are the commercial spaces going to be subject to flooding in the next 100 years, probably? Yeah.

Every commercial space in that corridor would be subject to flooding.

When you build something, you try to not have that. But I understand you accept that as risk. The commercial tenants accept it as a risk. Yes. Okay. And then one of the speakers raised the issue, though, is I think this was the point. Is there anything about this project that would increase the flood risk or the damage from a flood to any of your surrounding neighbors and properties?

I would argue no. So we are going to eliminate the stormwater flow to the combined sewer, which is capturing the sanitary flow off of 125th and 124th and the whole uphill that drains down to the road. So our site will not be contributing any stormwater anymore to that system.

Yeah, not so much the stormwater. I'm talking about when the river comes up 10 feet or 15. There's nothing in this development that's going to exacerbate the situation for your neighbors. They're going to get flooded whether you're there or not there. Is that correct? This question makes no sense to you.

No, I mean, it makes sense. I just don't think it's going to impact neighboring properties like you would think. In a flood scenario, it's

Don't think.

All right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Address your remarks here, please.

I mean, I would be curious for the audience's input on whether the flooding concern is coming from the river itself or from the storm sewer system not having adequate capacity.

I think we were talking about the flood plain, which is probably more to the rise of the river. There's something, doesn't Archimedes or somebody have a principle? If you put some object in the water, the water around it's going to go up. So I guess you're putting these buildings in there. I suppose it might raise the water this much. in the neighborhood, you think, or was it? Somebody did that. Anyways, I will ask the engineer at some point. Okay, that was my question. Anybody else have questions?

Yeah, there's a drawing or an elevation that shows the river facing your building or facing your property, and it implies that there's a seawall there. The existing condition is no seawall.

No, there's no seawall. It's a bank that slopes down.

Yeah, it's if you could, if you could scroll to that. Yeah, I mean, this is a really beautiful lights on the river and there's a seawall and all that kind of stuff.

Again, these are, these are, these are, these are a little, these are preliminary. So just say that you're not building.

No, the gray area is the slope down basically from the path to the river. Because it's not colored, it may look like it's not a wall. Yeah. Okay.

Is that what it is now riprap?

Right? That's, that's the question.

It's vegetation and with some riprap. Yes.

So if you go farther south, though, where the boat launches, there is a decade seawall there, right?

Yes.

And that and that runs into this property. I on the Southern end.

I don't know for sure. I will. I will double check with our team.

I think, you know, the presentation shows the seawall. Obviously, you're saying there isn't going to be seawall. If there was, it would require much more, you know, approval process. It's a federal waterway, so building a seawall would require quite a bit. My concern is that, you know, we talk about two types of flooding here. One is the river rising 100-year floodplain, okay? The other is that the usage of the stormwater sewer in the sewer is creating a circumstance where either it's because of rain or the fact that the capacity won't take it. The intersections are now flooding. They are ponding. So just to be clear, we're talking about two types of flooding. When we talk about the commercial spaces, we're talking about a 100-year flood from the river. If we could see the existing conditions on the river, maybe there's some larger rip raft that would kind of help with that issue. But I think engineering is going to have to take a hard look at the numbers on how this is going to impact the economy. The ponding on second half. Can I ask one?

I mean, there's very strict permitting requirements. I mean, you guys have heard a lot about the combined sewer overflow and all that, and that's going to apply here. It's going to be reviewed by DSE. They're going to have to meet the associated stormwater control guidelines that associate the sanitary review. So both sanitary and stormwater are gonna be closely reviewed. It includes a full downstream capacity analysis to make sure that the pipe network can take it. It includes making sure that you don't increase stormwater, peak stormwater runoff for one year through 100 year,

flood uh rain events so yes it's going to be thoroughly reviewed so I thought I heard you say earlier that all the storm water from this six acre six plus acre side was going to be directed South to something near the uh boat launches was that correct

Yeah, there's the overflow actually from the combined sewer. There's a separate storm sewer that comes out that discharges directly into the river. It's outfall one.

So the storm water from this side is going to go to the river ultimately, but not to the Second Avenue system. No. But the sanitaries... hookups here will go to the Second Avenue system.

Correct. So we provided a full sanitary loading letter that evaluated what I believe is conservative assumptions for the commercial uses as well as the number of units of residential. So I think in our evaluation of the long-term control plan, outfall one has never been noted to have an overflow scenario during a dry weather event when it's not raining. So those overflows are only occurring during a wet weather event. Um, so that's why we're doing everything we can to eliminate storm water from that system. Um, and then the, I lost my train of thought. Um, so, I mean, we're, we're trying to mitigate it to like the absolute best of our ability. But as Chris said, it's going to go through a full review in terms of the sanitary discharge to the system, the removal of the storm, and how all of that is going to impact that system.

Where is outfall one located?

It's the outfall that is on the boat launch property.

I don't want to belabor this. I'm just trying to understand something.

I'm assuming that there would

a berm or something like that would not be appropriate there or allowed on the river shore. Is that correct? To raise levels and avoid flooding this property.

I imagine it would need to be cohesively looked at along the entire shoreline. I mean, I mean, I don't want modeling up.

I'm more curious. Yeah.

And also modeling and data and inputs and has to be looked at cohesively.

Well, how much is the floor of the commercial space into the floodplain? What would be the expected level of water in that building if there is a hundred year flood?

So the base flood elevation is the 32.2, and then the design flood is 34.2.

So it's like four to six feet within the... Yeah, and I'm assuming that all the mechanicals for the residential part are going to be above the commercial space? Yes.

Okay.

Anybody else, questions?

Have you done, have you done borings of the site? You know, we're dealing with as far as do we have to, for excavation, do we have to blast? Are we going to be?

No, definitely no blasting required. Generally across the site, there's five to up to 10 feet of a fill material. So there's been a lot of historic disturbance of the soils. So groundwater is relatively shallow as is typical next to the river. But I think it was about five feet, if I'm remembering correctly, down. So the soils will support a standard shallow foundation design. So that's what we would be targeting. So I think the residential would have to be elevated. So that would be Phil.

Like Peter was suggesting, there's no way to bring those, any way to bring those buildings out, that retail space out of the floodplain.

I don't know how you create an activated streetscape by doing that.

They are also increasing the height of the building. Yeah. We're trying to keep underneath the variance. We're also trying to keep the building height lower.

And so as it already is,

get the residential level up out of the floodplain, which we are required to do. It's increasing the height of our retail space. That's what Kelsey was talking about. We have 16 to 18 feet of retail floor to ceiling height, which is much more than we want or need. And it's also just increasing the height of the building. So we're trying to balance it in such a way, but.

Understand. Did one of the speakers, speaking remotely, suggest that there would be underground parking here? Should be underground parking?

I think multiple people brought it up as an option. Multiple people brought that up as an option to look into.

Is that feasible in the floodplain?

I mean, it definitely has been done in the floodplain.

Well, the water table's got to be pretty close there too, hasn't it?

Yeah.

So you build a parking garage under the water table?

No, you definitely can't do that. So I think ultimately that would end up raising the height of the building again because you have to still keep parking out of the floodplain, but it could be designed to flood under a 100-year storm.

Yeah, gotcha. City Hall did that here one time, as I recall, the old one.

You've got to move the cars first. They've lost 26 city cars. I'm looking at the 2nd Avenue elevations, and I'm confused about the retails. It looks like the building 1, let's call it, Is the retail accessible on the street or do you have to go on the site to get to the retail? It looks like piers and a porch almost.

No, those are just columns with a roof overhang.

So it's not like a streetscape storefront there. What you're doing is you're elevating the building and somehow you're... Where are you accessing the retail on building one from the street?

At sidewalk level, at 30 feet.

So... Those are piers?

Those are just roughed-in architectural features.

It looks like it's going downhill.

It might look like it is a little downhill.

It doesn't seem like we have a contiguous street. Are we planning future drawings that maybe describe this better as to what it's going to look like in the streetscape? Because this, to me, doesn't look like any place I would want to go to do anything retail-wise.

Um, yeah, we're going to provide some, um, street front. Let me hop in here. Yeah. Okay.

Thank you both. As I said, the exterior architectural details of these buildings are preliminary. The intention is to have access to the retail from the street. The access to the buildings is on the side of the buildings. And there's a staircase and a ramp. And so you walk up to that first floor, if you will, okay, from the side. And so the retail is fully accessible from the street.

Okay, so the drawings you submitted so far. I'm looking at building one.

Let's go here. Can I zoom this? Oh. So... Here is our street wall. I'm sorry, this is a little out of focus. And our sidewalk, okay?

Can you speak a little closer to the mic? I can hardly hear.

Sure, absolutely. My apologies. Do we want to look just at building one? Whatever. Each building is at the street level when it comes to retail, right? Now, those retail spaces, what did we, 16 feet is what it was? 16 to 18 feet. So that second level there that you see at the street wall, right, is actually a double height retails, not double, but in above a standard height floor. Okay. And that is because a single flight, the retail, if it was just that first level would be about eight feet or six feet. What was it? Eight, which is too low. And so we now have a 16 foot retail space. So you have a voluminous retail space letting light in. There's a lot of different ways those retail spaces could be used. There are going to be marquee spaces.

guess I don't understand the definition of this this there's this eight foot and then we're saying it's two stories but to me it looks like you know I don't know about retail I don't understand why you wouldn't have exposed storefronts instead you have a band at about eight foot it looks like to me and these drawings are confusing or the elevations are confusing us to the retail

uh not defined you know so to zoom in here again you you have an you have entrances there right right here right you have an entrance here potentially it could be here it's yet to be determined okay the retail space will all the height of the retail space only at the front of the building will be about here okay and that is because the standard height here is eight feet which is below code and so we want to have a retail space that can accommodate customers and businesses. And so that only in that first floor condition, that retail condition, and I can show you here on the drawings, right? So you have your retail section here, right? And then here it is open to the retail, whereas on this where the residential is set back at that first floor level, you have residential. And so you will not have residential at the first floor level, quote unquote, because it will be utilized for the retail in order to achieve a height that is code acceptable.

You know, I understand the height. I don't understand the band. And are you entering the retail space underneath some sort of A canopy, right?

That's like a canopy over it.

It is a rain canopy. It is a small canopy, but you are walking into that retail from the street.

I couldn't tell that there's anything in there. Is that just more of a question for the architect? Are you trying to hit codes or architectural guidelines that's driving that? Or is that your own architectural decision, Chris?

It's really preliminary. We're trying to bring some scale to the street side. We can extend, we can have a double height storefront that extends two stories. We thought having a canopy at 10 feet was more to the scale of the sidewalk. Again, we can come back.

The windows we see above the canopy, they are actually the... top of the commercial space.

That's correct. That's how tall the retail is. As you proceed to the rear, to the west, the windows on that level will all be residential. Residential units. It's just in the front that we have the retail.

I would say certainly for next time we can bring a rendering view that helps a little bit more I'm going to leave the mic here.

Is that the grade basically level back to the river bank, or does it drop off?

So the sidewalk's approximately at 28 feet. As you head west along the site, it goes up to about 34. Goes up? you go up as you're approaching price chopper now yeah you're going up the hill so your high left your high line is right yeah so

In trying to match the existing grade as much as possible and avoid both cutting and filling to the maximum extent, what is occurring is that basically the highest elevation of the grade at the parking lot is pretty close to where the existing elevation is today. So that naturally the grade slopes down from that high point towards Second Avenue. So what we're doing is capturing that stormwater in catch basins and then basically bucking grade to go. And so the storm sewer will get deeper to send it to the back to get it out of the combined sewer.

And did I understand you to say that behind the commercial space at that level is going to be residential space or just residential style windows? Is that commercial space occupy the whole first floor?

No.

So so as you go back, you get into residential.

I will show you that. I just want to make everybody... I want to be super clear here. So where you see the cursor here, right? This is the high point, okay? And it slopes back this way, and then it slopes to the river. So the high point is right about here, okay? With respect to your question... okay this is the street level plan okay these were this will not be here but in essence the retail is here and then there is fill here okay and so then at the first floor level of the residential right which is above the floodplain which you enter here okay you'll have your residential here and then you have that second that sort of double height retail space here at the front

So what is going to be under the first floor residential? Fill?

Fill. Correct. And so you'll have a wall along this line here that recedes as the grade increases towards that high point, towards the rear of the site.

Andrew, could you show the side view where you have the entrance and then you have the walkway that goes all the way down?

Here? Here.

No, you had a side view before.

This one?

No.

Oh, okay.

Side elevation?

Yeah.

This one? Here? No. Yes, this one?

It's a bigger picture than that, but now that...

I don't have that on the presentation.

Oh, that's why I can't see it.

Okay. Can you pull it up?

Because I saw it on the...

I can pull it up.

I saw it on the computer. Do you want me to stop sharing for a second?

Yes, I'll...

So I'll speak to it as he pulls it up. But basically, because the residential level has to be elevated, in order to access that level from the parking lot, there will be stairs at the main entry as well as a ramp. But technically, it's not a ramp because it's less than 5%. So a sidewalk that comes down to an accessible route.

There you go.

So that's showing railing along the ramp portion just because of fault protection. But that grade is actually, it's less than 5% path to the main entrance of the residential.

Any other questions, folks?

I guess what can we expect at the next meeting as far as your renderings and your drawings are concerned? What changes between this meeting and from this meeting to the next meeting do you expect?

Well, we have a lot to do. I agree. I've taken some notes. What we typically show are some renderings both from the street sidewalk, um, cut some sections for you. So, um, we can really understand what the retail, um, is going to look like, um, and how it's going to feel, what the scale is. Um, and also I think help to explain some of the, the, the floodplain issues and the stormwater things that we have to overcome. Um, and, um, and I, I think we also just have, uh,

um some work to do on some elevations um maybe a little more specific so we will have uh you know a more defined color palette right in terms of what these buildings will look like and materials and materials right and how those materials are arranged the aesthetic of these buildings

And the architectural detail too? Yes, yes.

Nope, that won't be there. I just want to say, we had some interesting feedback on the callers and Stephen presented some really good ideas and I think we shouldn't overlook any of that also. Just... be all inclusive in what you're, you know, I saw you guys taking notes, so I know you, but, uh, I think it's important. Um, everyone is, uh, it's early, but the detail is going to matter more so early than it will later. So I think if we can flesh that out a little bit better and consider some of the other thoughts, I know Barb mentioned the Parking underground, that's not going to work probably. But the appearance of the buildings maybe and all the other things that were mentioned during the call I think are important.

Yeah, and I would just say generally, this is an evolving process. We want to hear your feedback. I did present to the Lansingburg Community Association on May 12th. We're engaged in the community. We're not, nobody's hiding.

You speak too softly, really.

I presented it to the Lansingburg Community Association on May 12th. We are engaged with the community and the city administration. We are out in the open. No one is hiding here and we wanna hear feedback and we're excited to incorporate that.

Okay. Okay. I think we had the benefit of some good comments tonight. You know, I'd like to see, you know, when we talk about the path, I'd like to see some cooperation. We don't want to take on more as a city. We were already pretty busy. I got a lot to do. I know if we said parks and recreation, go clean up their sidewalk or their path, that would be a problem. or for his DPW, whoever. So I think it's on your site, even though if it's accessible for city use, we would probably have to have some sort of arrangement for maintenance. possibly some kind of easement or access or something like that covered i mean i mean if we were truly i know the mayor and she's worked in the canal and the waterway for years one of her big things is having a you know a water front access from north to south of troy all the way And so that is a priority. Yes. But we're looking for everyone to participate in that. Not just us to say, hey, yeah, we'll take care of the path.

It is a team effort. I really want to underscore that. We are working with the city to figure this out. I've engaged multiple department heads. I've engaged their planning department and their grant team. We are working together to find a way to make this happen. That is our intention.

I can tell you you're further ahead than they were years ago when there was a Freyhofer site and they put the Walgreens there. That went on for a really long time. So you're already further ahead than that. You do have a long list of stuff though.

When you do your building renderings, I certainly, with all the architectural guidelines that you're supposed to be following, I would certainly like to see a building that looks a hell of a lot more interesting.

Chris, you're in the hot seat.

So I think you're looking for intent to take lead agency status tonight, right? Please. Is there a motion on that?

Yes, I would like to make a motion that we... Take the lead on Seeker.

Lead agency.

Lead agency. Yeah.

Your intention. Intent. Intent to lead.

I would like to move the board to announce its intention to act as lead agency.

Yes, I would like the board to act, the attention to act as lead agency for Seeker.

Second. I'll second that motion. Discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Motion carries unanimously. So we'll see you again many times probably. Thank you.

Sounds good. I look forward to it. Thank you for your time tonight.

Thank you. Take care. Next item is 2026-0048-185 Earl Street. Lot line adjustments.

One second, sorry, sharing my screen.

Can I just, excuse me a second. So is there, I mean, if we approve this and it creates a non-conforming lot, is that just it? Or do they have to get something else done about that?

This is their first meeting. So with the understanding that they would need variances, they are in line to attend the ZDA meeting in the first week of July, which would mean that they'll understand if they're going to be able to have a non-conforming lot as a result of this subdivision, which would be determined before you guys have a hearing.

So the ZBA will act first.

Yeah, gotcha. But I guess I'm asking the question, does this planning board... basically authorize a non-conforming law, approve a non-conforming law?

No. That's what you'll refer the applicant to the ZBA. They will grant the permission as to whether or not they can or cannot.

Yeah. Gotcha.

And then they'll be returning to you with that permission. Or if they don't get the permission, then they may not have to return to you because they would have to therefore have a conforming law. which for a lot line adjustment would be handled by the director of code enforcement alone.

Gotcha. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. All right. I'm sorry. Are you ready?

I am. Good evening, everyone. My name is Courtney Davis with LaBella. Joining me tonight is Kristen with Unity House, the applicant. And we are here tonight to discuss their proposed lot line adjustment between their 185 Earl Street and 2428 Fifth Avenue parcels. So the figure you see on screen shows both the existing conditions and proposed conditions for both pre and post lot line adjustment. So the 185 Earl Street parcel is the shorter one on the left on both of them, and the 2428 Fifth Avenue parcel is the taller one on the right. So the red lines on the left figure, which is the existing condition, show the existing lot lines as they lie today. It also shows the newly constructed teaching kitchen on the 185 Earl Street parcel, as well as the existing residential structure on the 2428 Fifth Avenue parcel. And on the Earl Street side of that same parcel, it shows a garage, which was recently demolished. If you look to the figure on the right, it shows in red the existing lot lines, which would remain following the lot line adjustment, and then the blue, which is kind of harder to see, but in the middle of the screen in this area, if you can see my cursor, that is the proposed new lot line between those two parcels. So this shows the existing residential structure on the west side of 2428 Fifth Avenue to remain, the brand new teaching kitchen obviously also to remain, but this would allow for the Facilitation of construction of a new outdoor cooler and patio space in the area of the recently demolished garage to support the new teaching kitchen. So the slot line adjustment, as briefly mentioned, will result in the creation of two non-conforming lots, so will require review and approval by the zoning board. However, the proposed variances will allow for the new supporting uses to be located on the same parcel as the teaching kitchen. So the required variances will include one for the side yard on the 185 Earl Street parcel. We're proposing a 25 foot side yard in a zoning district that requires a zero to 10 foot side yard. Another one for the 185 Earl Street parcel is that we are proposing a 50% building frontage due to this plot line adjustment where 60% minimum is required. And the last one relates to the 2428 Fifth Avenue parcel is the impervious surface coverage. 97% is proposed where 80% maximum is required by the zoning code. So the side yard and building frontage variances are necessary simply to have enough space to create this outdoor patio space and the cooler that will support the teaching kitchen. And the impervious surface coverage variance is purely a function of how much existing impervious is on that remaining lot. There isn't really an opening to reduce the impervious coverage since the building takes up so much of that space. But the project as a whole overall will result in a net decrease in impervious coverage since the new patio space will be constructed of pervious materials. we did receive your staff comments which really had two key items on it the first one was the variances as eric mentioned we did submit to the zoning board with the goal of being on the july agenda to begin the discussion of that process and the second item on there was the signage so i know the city received a signage package from AJ Science who developed the design and directly with the applicant. The city's concern is that it advertises a pizzeria and not a teaching kitchen. So I know you're all looking for clarification on the use of this space. And I've got Kristen here who can speak some more to that.

Hi, so the teaching kitchen is established for kids from 16 to 21 years old. We currently have had three cohorts that have gone through our kitchen that's located in our main facility. And the kids come through for eight weeks. At the conclusion of the eight weeks, there's this quote unquote pop-up where folks can come and purchase the pizza that they're making or the product that the kids are learning. At the conclusion of the eight weeks, there's a small graduation where the kids wait on community members or those who come in, and then they graduate, and we help them find jobs. So currently, the 21 kids over the last 12 weeks, we've had seven with job placement in the community. We follow back up. We make sure that they're working, that they're following up to work. And it's kind of like, I guess, a gateway for kids who are struggling to find other alternatives. They didn't do well in school, or there's no guidance outside of their home. So... they come through like this quote unquote interview process. We interview them and then they go out, start this program, graduate the program. But part of that is putting out a meal. So we are doing like this pop-up and I guess because we're doing only pizza, we called it a pizzeria. Maybe the intent is to one day taking it further to do a pizzeria, but right now we're focused on teaching kitchen with the opportunity to do pop-ups.

So there's no, I just want to ask my staff, there's no problem with this being put between the door and the window permanently affixed to the building. That's not a problem.

Are you referring to the sign? Yes. The sign's location is not an issue or the size of it. In fact, as an update, I just received this afternoon that the current application to the building department has been withdrawn. So I think they're reevaluating sign.

Is it okay? Yeah, no. So we really want to be a community member. We're really focused on doing more for the kids. And if that's a holdup, we don't want to push back. You already do a lot for us and we want to just continue that working relationship. So we're going to put it on the inside. So when you walk in, it's still there. We created it. But that's

Okay. So there'll be no sign on the outside at all. Correct. Yeah. So I thought that was a little bit misleading. People might want to walk in and say, Hey, I want to go get a pizza.

They can on the pop-up, but right. Yeah. So, so when you walk in, it's going to look like a restaurant. It's going to feel like a restaurant. There's going to be space upstairs in the rear of it. There's a teaching spot. So we have, you know, where the kids will learn the craft, the trade. And then, like I said, at the conclusion, we have like this event where they do pop up and they can see the fruits of their labor. And we've already had seven kids who are working out in the community. So you teach all children? So I don't do any of it. I'm the vice president of real estate for Unity House, but they are. So we are taking applicants from 16 to 21. And we've had multiple kids in the community, and we're getting ready to do another cohort at the end of this week. The kids graduate, and then we take a week off. They do the interviews, the applications, and then the kids apply. They get selected, and then they start the process. And they're actually getting paid through the Department of Criminal Justice right now to do it. So they get minimum wage and DCGS pays the minimum wage. And it's just part of the anti-violence, you know, kind of like giving kids an opportunity to do something else with their time.

Well, it's funny, as I was driving here, I asked my car to tell me when Unity House started, blah, blah, blah. And... It was started, Unity House in 1971 in Troy was started by a nun and two friars.

Yeah, so that's kind of like where we get to. We really stepped outside on that one. Yeah. Yeah. um what happens with uh after we make this light line adjustment what happens with 24 28 5th avenue great question so we currently own 24 28 5th avenue um we have two uh residents that in there and they're um community members who live in the apartments and they they pay rent they work in the community um so we basically purchased the building because the garage that was hooked to it um it was in the alley it was a drug house. We had to constantly keep going in, calling people to get them out. And then we're like, why don't we just buy this? It's hooked to ours. We approached the gentleman who owned it. He said, you can buy it. It's condemned. So we did and we fixed it up and we got rid of the garage, took care of that problem. So we plan on keeping both properties to continue to You know, do better for that.

24-28 become a non-conforming lot because of it? It does. So you need a variance for that as well.

Yes. So of the three that I mentioned, the maximum impervious coverage is related to the 24-28 parcel.

Okay. Any other questions?

I don't think so.

Okay. Thank you. Any member of the public want to speak on this application? OK, thank you. So seeker determination is up. Designation, determination.

I would like to make a motion to declare this as a seeker unlisted.

Yes.

unlisted with sufficient information? I think so. I do.

They could just declare the project unlisted as a seeker, right?

It's not type 2.

No, it's unlisted. But usually they'll just declare the project as unlisted prior to it.

So we want two motions? It's up to you. It's up to you.

You can do it.

Yes.

We'll leave it up to you, Tony.

Well, I'm going to declare this as Seeker unlisted.

I second.

Discussion? All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carries unanimously.

And I would like to declare this application complete if everybody's in agreement.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

You can refer this to the ZBA for their July 1st meeting.

There is precedence for completing an application and scheduling a public hearing contingent on ZBA approvals.

They're already in front of ZBA? No, July 1st. They have not? July 1st.

But the ZBA, you'll be able to get before the ZBA before our next meeting, is that correct? That's correct. You can schedule the hearing pending you getting approval at the ZBA.

You need to declare the application complete.

Okay, I would like to declare this application complete. Thank you.

Discussion? Discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say no. And the motion carries unanimously. And now.

So.

Hearing.

I would like to schedule the hearing for July 21st contingent on the response from the ZBA for your variances. Does that work?

Second. Discussion. All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say no. Motion carries unanimously. And does it automatically go to the zoning board? We don't have to do anything about that. All right. So good luck. Thank you.

Thank you.

Take care, folks.

Thank you very much.

Next item, 2026-0049, 272 Hoosick Street. I guess that's what everybody's interested in. Is the applicant here? We should have scheduled this one first, I think, for the convenience of the audience.

Hi.

Identify yourself for the record, please.

How are you? My name is Adam Patella. I'm a licensed architect working here in Troy. And today I am working with ME Studio, who is the architect of record for this project, representing the, excuse me, the free store tenant fit-up project. Also with me.

Sarah. Sarah Brellier.

Hi, Sarah.

Sarah's here with FreeStore to be able to answer some questions about operations and logistics. The FreeStore project is a plus or minus 64,000 square foot site with an approximately 13,000 square foot existing building. It's the site on Hoosick and Burdette that used to be the Rite Aid that's been vacant for I'm not sure exactly how many years now. The tenants are proposing very minor work on the inside in the form of removal of existing display fixtures and things like that, no new building, as well as new building signage. Currently, there's no proposed site improvements or any work in general. The staff comments kind of fell into maybe three categories of comments. I think maybe we could... address a number of them tonight. The comments generally had to do with kind of basic things like snow removal and bicycle racks and things like that, which we're happy to provide locations for at our next, for the next application, as well as a number of questions about kind of the logistics of the operation and donation-based questions resulting in kind of security questions and things like that, as well as disposal of unwanted and unsold or unused items. And then finally there were two or maybe three issues regarding site improvements that we were hoping to kind of gain some insight as to expectations on. And ultimately today we're looking for a secret declaration as well as a declaration that the application has been complete. Just to kind of, I think maybe we could deal with the way that the store operates and kind of the way that donations are handled. The current kind of business model is that the store would be open Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday from nine o'clock to three o'clock and shoppers and people with donations would come. be kind of managed through an appointment process. So it's not necessarily an open door at the moment. You would make an appointment to drop something off, and you would also make an appointment to shop at the store. We have kind of a flyer that would kind of explain or be solicited. If we're able to, can we pass out copies of this, Eric, that we have? OK. So we have this flyer that kind of describes uh materials that are donated that will sarah will pass around um i don't know that i need to list every single thing here but the gist of it is that large um large items such as uh Furniture and beds and cribs and things like that are not part of what this store is seeking to offer to the public. Essentially what happens is things are donated and then shoppers are allowed to shop and peruse the goods and things are given away for free. So there's no monetary exchange. I think there were concerns that what happens with items that were not given away and the items that are accepted are generally small enough that they would be kind of acceptable as trash from your own home or something like that there's not kind of this collection of large. pickup truck kind of requiring materials. There's also the donations are handled through an appointment system. So there's not kind of an open donation dumpster, let's say, like you might see in other parking lots where people could just come and openly dump things. There's a person around the side of the building at the current loading dock location that would manage donations. That's very explicit. The signage around the building points people to where the donations would be dropped off. I just want to give you a second to maybe look at the list of things that are accepted and the things that are not accepted to kind of understand the scope of kind of things that might accumulate. The reason I wanted to go over kind of some of these items is that there were a number of staff comments regarding, again, what happens to the disposal of items that are not sold and none of them are really large enough that they would be kind of like a nuisance. What happens regarding just people kind of dumping things on site?

I mean, if they're not a nuisance, if you're not selling...

They would not fit within a dumpster. They wouldn't be kind of collecting outside of a dumpster.

You are proposing to dispose of them in a dumpster?

Yeah, I believe so. Yes. So unsold, unused, un-given away items, if that's the way to say it, would be disposed of on-site in a dumpster, all of which could fit inside of a dumpster. The maybe it's best just to stop here and kind of ask for questions about the logistics of the operation.

Yeah. So, Adam, you know, I'll ask you first. Sure. You're familiar with the traffic patterns that are right. There's a there is a drive through there, but that's you're not going to be using the drive through. Correct.

We're going to accept donations in the back.

So like through the bay door where deliveries for a store would have been. So the traffic pattern is way less than what it was for a Rite Aid drugstore, correct? I would assume so. And you have like 60 parking spots, roughly, give or take.

Yeah, 60 parking spaces is tremendously above what they would need.

Okay, that's what I'm getting to. So a Rite Aid would have been open until, what, 9 o'clock at night or 10 o'clock at night or whatever. lights on, store open, drive-through open, traffic going in and out all day, all night, whereas you're proposing a few days a week, nine to three?

That's when we would have customers would be in the building available at those hours. Employees may be there on Monday and Saturday or Monday and Thursday also, but everybody needs to be out of there by four o'clock.

So the impact that you're proposing is much, much less than the retail store that was there previously. I suppose. I would say.

Yeah. Well, I think one of the concerns that I've heard is, you know, we all see the dumpster or whatever you call them, containers where they invite you to drop your clothes there for recycling or whatever. And of course, people dump everything outside the containers instead of in and containers are left overflowing and all that kind of stuff. How do you control that at this site?

We're not going to have containers at all. You're going to have to make an appointment to jump in.

We've got a great big parking lot, and people are going to, looking for a place to get rid of their junk, and they want to dump it on you. So how do you control that? Because I know that will happen.

Well, with security cameras and lighting and public humiliation, if caught on camera...

Yeah, well, hopefully. Do you intend to close off the parking lot during the hours it is closed or the business is closed?

So as proposed, we don't intend any kind of gates or chains or anything like that to close off. We do not, no.

So you'll have a lot of activity in that parking lot probably when you're not there.

I think that by not... explicitly soliciting off-hour drop-offs by having a container or something like that. I think it would make it pretty clear that there's no immediate place to do this. I mean, one could argue it's the same parking lot as any other parking lot at that point.

But can I ask you, do you have a similar operation someplace else? Is that correct?

We currently have an operation in Bennington, Vermont, and there's not many problems in Bennington.

Is it operated the same way? Same days?

No.

Is it open every day?

No, they're open on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. And it's still by appointment? No, they have walk-ins.

And no issues with the neighbors up there?

The neighbors love us. And we're currently looking at a place in Daytona.

This is a question unrelated to site plan approval, but... You're taking in things for free and then you're distributing them for free. How do you pay the rent?

We own the building, so we don't have any rent.

How did you pay for the building?

With contributions and donations.

So it's a not-for-profit organization? Correct. Yeah. 501c3?

Yes.

Okay.

And you already have the funds to purchase it or have purchased it?

We closed the deal on January 31st. Good.

Any questions?

Yeah. I'm getting back to the entries to the store. I think that's something that's going to be necessary. I mean, in my own opinion, I think that's going to be something that's necessary. I can just envision pickup trucks coming and just dropping stuff in your park. I'm like, And you say you don't accept couches, mattresses. I just envision coming into work the next morning or looking on security cameras and seeing piles of stuff in your driveway.

We're not really sure that a proper gate really fits in with the residential community in the immediate area. It makes it feel a little bit... I don't know, like things are a little bit on lockdown?

Yeah, well, you have an aluminum iron fence around it now, so every place except for the entryways. I don't think it would be that big a deal.

Are you going to have a dumpster on site as well?

There is a dumpster on site.

There's a dumpster pad. It's called bottom left of the drawing here.

PB, Harmon Zuckerman, Adam is there and there's an enclosure and the gate is our gate around the dumpster usually there is on these sites, you know it's up ahead I can't I usually I think there's one existing but it's in need of repair.

PB, Harmon Zuckerman, There's one there that's in need of repairs that would be part of our proposal.

PB, Harmon Zuckerman, So do you inspect the items that people are bringing to you to see if you want them or not, so do you take everything they give you where you just take the stuff that you deem is good.

Well, we take what is on the flyer.

We take what's on the flyer. It's got to be in good condition. We won't take soiled clothes. We have to have matching shoes and socks. Yeah, for the most part, we take everything that a person has. And if we get to capacity, we don't schedule anything. Anymore. We book out schedules, you know, or that's the theory in it.

If I brought you a book that somebody spilled a cup of coffee on, would you take that and dispose of it in your dumpster? Would you tell the people that you don't want it?

Yeah, we'd tell you that we're not accepting that. Take it away. Yep. Ask it to take it away.

So the benefit to someone contributing materials or goods is what? You give them a receipt, a perceived value?

We are not allowed to make up a value for the product that you donate. We can give you a receipt that you can fill out, and it tells you what form you have to use for the IRS. But we give you a receipt with a blank value, and you have to say how much it's worth.

So the other question is, so you're operating as a nonprofit. When it was a retail store, it was a rated drug store, it was on the tax rolls. Is it coming off the tax rolls?

Yes.

Thank you. So it's not free? What? So the city is going to pay because it was on the tax rolls before and now it's coming off the tax rolls. We're losing revenue as a city, yet we still have city services that we have to provide. So it's not free.

It's free to the person and the customer.

but not to the municipalities. There's a cost to the municipality. Because just like Unity House before, they don't pay taxes on their buildings. 50% of the buildings in Troy are tax exempt, either through not-for-profits or other churches. So this was on the tax rates. Now it's being purchased by not-for-profit, comes off the tax rates. But the same city services are going to be provided, police and fire. Correct. So I'll put that on the record. It's not free.

Any other questions?

Comments? I think I agree with Jim's. You felt that at least have holes with maybe a chain across your driveways when you're not in operation so people can't go into the parking lot.

Could we have the opportunity to develop a relationship with the community and look back at it again in nine months or so?

You wouldn't be able to. If you get an approval, then you would not be beholden to come back.

I think the applicant's willing to consider kind of a minimally invasive barrier, such as a chain or something like that, for sure. Sorry, we have another.

I'm sorry, if I may, Rob Stout, I'm the project attorney on this matter. With respect to a potential future condition that could be triggered in the future, perhaps there's some way that it could be triggered where we would not have to come back to the board, where it could be a determination of the building department if there has been complaints or evidence of dumping at the nine-month mark or so. that it would be at the building department's discretion to require that the applicant install a chain at that point in time if they've been unable to build the relationship with the community that they intend to.

Geez, I couldn't do a nine month.

That's actually my thought for Allison. Yeah.

I think, you know, back to the point I was making, Jim was making, that we're looking at and saying, how do we minimize any city resources being used on your property? Any nuisance? You know, like I said, you're not going to be paying school taxes, you're not going to be paying property taxes, but if there's a problem on the property, you're using city resources. So I don't know that a chain or gate or whatever type of thing that Jim is asking about, whether that would be such a big deal, considering, as Peter had said, that there is already a fence all the way around the property. That's my opinion.

I agree.

We had some additional comments from the staff regarding site improvements, such as specifically dealing with sidewalks and trees. I'm happy to discuss those now if there's, not that there's no other comments regarding the previous matter, but if it feels right to move on to those things.

Go ahead, Jay.

Okay. There were two comments related to the continuation or kind of a change in material of the sidewalks crossing the dry vials right now. And we just are kind of questioning some of the verbiage in the zoning code suggests that existing sidewalks need to be continued when a new drive is being proposed. Or the verbiage seems to really be centered around kind of work being done. And if work is done in that area, for instance, that the sidewalk then needs to be kind of continued. And we're not proposing to do any work. And there's already a sidewalk with appropriate ADA terminations and curb cuts and things like that there. So we're just kind of trying to understand the applicability of that section of the code in this instance.

I'll read the citation in the code for you.

Which one? Is this 28570?

28570, the standards of this section shall apply on lots with construction of new multifamily commercial or other residential structures in the city of Troy. And it is 28570J, any driveway crossing a sidewalk must maintain the existing concrete sidewalk. That's the citation.

So it's kind of our question is, first, we're not proposing anything new on the site. Second... Any driveway crossing a sidewalk must maintain the existing concrete sidewalk. There's no existing concrete sidewalk crossing the driveway right now. As illustrated here, the sidewalk stops and starts at the drive aisle as it currently is. So there's no existing sidewalk to continue or maintain across the drive aisle.