Planning Board - Regular Meeting

I would like to call the April 21st, 2026 meeting to order. Yeah. to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Right. I would like to take attendance right now. Um, Mr. Shufeld present. Mr. York, present. Tony Dickinson present. Uh, Peter Kho will be absent tonight. And this is the gentleman that we're waiting for. Are you here? All right. Everybody has been accounted for. I would like to remind the members um since Peter is not here, you will still need three votes or a yay or a nay on any approvals or disapprovals. So, um I think we'll be fine. the um

meeting for last. Yes. The first administrative item uh is the adoption of the meeting minutes of March 21st, 2026. Can I get a motion to approve the uh I'd like to move to approve the meeting minutes of last month's meeting. I second that. Move. Okay. All those in favor? I I

opposed. Motion's carried. Our next administrative item is the review of proposed changes to chapter 285 of the city charter. Um we are still not ready to make our recommendations. I am going to be requesting another at least one more meeting for us before we before we do that. So that will be tabled tonight.

Yes. For the subcommittee. So we'll table we'll table that tonight. Our first item on the agenda is going to be PLP 202600002 Spring Avenue. Um, please state your name and your position, please.

Hello board. Uh, my name is Dan Morelli with Melli Design and Construction. I'm representing the applicant, Mike Melville, and his proposal to construct a new woodframe multi-use facility for professional offices and warehouse space with landscaping and general site improvements at 10 Spring Avenue, which is located in the business district, neighborhood 3. Uh, we're here tonight seeking final approval. I did receive the staff report. Uh I've been working with Eric very closely and Angelina with the ZBA. Uh we did appear before the ZBA about a month or so ago and we did get our three variances granted uh for the sideyard setback, the front yard setback, any architectural guidelines. Uh so that's been taken care of. Uh we made some modifications based on uh planning department's recommendations. basically added three-ft patch of green space on the right side of the building. Uh expanded the green space in the front on the right side of the building and took the pedestrian walkway from the driveway and kind of moved it over more consistent where uh with the front entrance to the building. We do have a monument sign. Uh we did present that to Eric about a week or so ago. I'm not sure if the board saw it, but it's basically a freestanding sign. The front of the building uh will be 2 ft of stone wat at the bottom. The sign will match that. Uh it'll be basically two pillars uh with a sign uh between the pillars uh done by AJ Signs. And they did look up the guidelines, so I'm sure we're okay there. Uh we'll set the sign 3 ft off the sidewalk. Um, we're going to put an apron, a a five- foot concrete pad with a sidewalk, uh, with a a slight ramp elevated to get us the

transition from zero up to 6 in. Entrance will be over here on the left side of the building with a 4ft transition up a ramp to the back area. The warehouse will be raised uh floor elevation at 4T. Uh floor elevation at the office space in the front uh will be at 6 in. Does the board have any questions for me at this time? No. I'm sorry. No questions. Okay. Um is there anybody Is there We had um I'm sorry. We had uh what were we still looking for?

Well, we have to get urban runoff plan. Urban runoff plan. Yes. But

so to to to address that, we've been working with ABD engineers for the past six weeks on that. Uh they had it well underway until the weather broke and then of course they went out to do their surveying and u they didn't get back to our urban runoff plan, but it's very very close and I hope that if you want to make that a condition, I hope to have that within the next 10 days or so. Is there anybody in the audience that would like to comment on this project? Is there no Is there anybody on Zoom? No. Okay. So, um hearing none, uh may I get a motion for final approval for do? We didn't already do seeker for that.

We we did. Yeah. Seeker set. Yes. Yes. So, I'd like to make a motion to approve this project contingent on our uh our urban runoff control plan. I'll second that. All those in favor? I I opposed. Motion is carried. Um you're all set to go, Dan. Thank you, board. You've been great to work with. Thank you, Eric. Sorry, we're gonna miss Mike. I hope he doesn't show up and it's all over. I'm sure he won't. Thank you.

The next on our agenda will be new business. It is PLPV 20260022885th Avenue. And I see we have people here to speak on the proposal. Could we have your name and your position, please? Sure thing.

Good evening. My name is Roger Kading. I'm with Labella Associates. I'm a civil site engineer. Um, I'm here tonight to present the application for Casablanca's uh plan to um redevelop the gas station site um located um as you see here on the screen or and on on my board. Um the existing site, it's around. 29 acres in size. Um and it's located right at the um intersection of 125th Street um and Fifth Avenue here. And the site historically has was a gas station service station. Um many of you probably remember this site if you've been up on the North End years ago. This was the the gas station that was like that yellow and reddish type of looking building. It had two service bays on there. um used to have quite a few cars and stuff all parked around it, you know, for a long time. Um when that business had gone out, um Al, um our applicant here this evening, um purchased the property, um and then he looked to um redevelop it back to a to a gas station um a gas station convenience store minus the the service of the um auto dealers, you know, or auto repair that was taking place there. and he was putting a food vendor um occupant u uh tenant in there as well. Um so the the aerial imagery you see here is kind of where the site sits today. So um around two years ago or so now um Al had got uh previously um a site plan approval um and had gone in done the investment of con uh construction um and through his

construction had made some changes which is bringing us back here to the to the board um so we can look to um make some modifications to that so that we can you know get Al's business opened up Um, so what we see here is the the plan as it kind of is today. Um, you can see it's really pretty much all asphalt all around. Um, there's existing curb cuts off of 125th Street and then it's basically asphalt all the way around until you get to Fifth, so along where Northern Drive is here. Um, and so when we looked at the plan here moving forward, we looked at the canvas of what's been built um, and how we can best improve the site. Um, and the the biggest thing that jumps off the page when we were looking at that is that sea of asphalt that you see all around the property. Um, very little road definition um, between where the the project site is and where the roadway is. Um so one of the things that we see is creating that definition and then creating um defined access points. And so as you can see here what we'll do how we'll do that is by resetting the edges of the roadway doing that by creating green space um curving along those road edges and then creating defined access points in and out of the project site. As the plan is shown here, we there was two curb cuts along the 125th Street. One of those curb cuts was closed as part of this plan. We created a a defined entrance port point here off of New Scatter Coke Road. Um and then we have an access drive back to a to a food service pickup window and an access point um here um

off of Northern Drive. And you'll notice as well as we've kind of reshaped the the entrance here at Northern Drive a little bit to provide a little bit better definition, create a bullnose for for a little bit better uh vehicle and pedestrian circulation as as vehicles are entering and exiting um Northern Drive. All this being said, um we, you know, when the project originally had started, it was it was done under the previous zoning. um staff has done a great job memorializing um the staff report, you know, as we're, you know, back before this board with new zoning in place. So, there's um a number of variances that we'll um need to obtain. Um but we're confident that and we're working with staff to to get through those comments. So, we're going to be working with them to address those items. Um, and really what we're looking forward tonight is to, you know, get the process started back up here with the planning board. Um, we'd like to try to get a planning or try to get while we're working with staff on some of those items, we'd like to get, um, a public hearing scheduled and then initiate and begin the seeker process. Um, and so that's what we're here tonight is to introduce the project, um, reintroduce the project, and then show the improvements that we're looking to do, get your feedback in addition to what we've received from staff, and then look to move forward to to get Al's um, site opened back up. So, um, that's my overview presentation. Um, Al, is there anything you'd like to add to?

Okay. So, um, members of the board, I'll turn it back to you for any questions or comments that you might have. Thank you.

Um, I have, um, several changes that, um, I would like to see made. I do not like the 125th Street, the second one. you you've already closed up one on 125th Street. I would prefer closing the other one on 125th Street only because of the traffic. Um I've lived in Troy all my life. I've been through this corner since I've been 16 years old. I know how busy it can get. Uh

yeah. And what I was thinking, um, your green space that is on the side of the building going out to Northern Drive, could that green space be shortened and that still be an in andout egress. So that's this is one of the things we're considering. It was also mentioned in the staff comments and that's going to be one of the items that we're going to look at how we could uh best improve and and work on that circulation that you just that you just mentioned. Yes. And here's Yes, I know. That's why we want to close it.

Yes. So, we may we we'll we'll look at um all options here along 125th Street. um possibly closing maybe even just restricting it to like a just an in or like a right out or something or um or closing it in entirety and then and then in doing so we'd look at what you were just talking about is looking at that access point there. Personally, I would prefer the 125th Street entrance closed

uh and your drive up or your pickup window. I don't believe you have enough space for traffic to go through there. I think you're required to have six sixc car length to be able to do a pickup window. Um I would prefer not seeing a pickup window. Um maybe you could have more parking. Um I don't know, but I'm I'm not a real big fan of your pickup window. I don't know how anybody else feels about that. I know you're going to have uh food there and you know if people want to order, drive up to the window, pick it up. My one concern also is if they're picking up food, I don't know whether or not you can do alcohol, cigarettes out that window. Uh I would prefer that it not be done that way. Uh and I would like to see no pickup window.

Okay. So, we'll I'll just address a few of the things um and appreciate the comment. We'll we'll look at that with staff and as well as Al um to see um how that operation works um you know if it can work with with what he has you know planned for inside the building. It's my understanding and Al you can correct me if I'm wrong that there's no order boards on the back of the building. So, somebody's not driving up like you would to go to McDonald's or something like that and then placing an order and then going to the window. So, you're not going to have a stacking situation that um would happen under like a conventional drive-thru where you would have potential stacking at the order window and potential stacking at the pickup window. You're this is solely pickup and where somebody would place an order via phone or via an app and then instead of getting out of their car, they would simply go to the pickup window. So, it I understand your comment. Um, but I just want to clarify and just let people know that there's not an order window with a speaker or anything like that outside. Um, the other thing, and Al, once again, please correct me if I'm wrong. Um, Al is not planning to sell alcohol at this facility. Um, so there there won't be um

no beers, nothing. No beer, nothing like that. So, that's not that's not in his business model as to what he'd like to do here. So, um, it is going to have convenience store, but it's not going to have that component to it. Um, and so, and the the window is only for the food operation. So, you wouldn't be doing like cigarettes or something like that out that window. It would only be for that provider um that that he would have in the building. But, no alcohol um as part of this um as part of this uh proposal. So, um but thank you for the comments. These will be some things that we can look at with u with Al and staff.

What are the uh proposed hours of operation? Al, can you weigh in on your proposed hours of operation? So, state your name for the record and sorry, just state your name for the record and then you can address the board.

Um, hello, my name is Al. Um, the hours will be 6:00 a.m. until 12:00 a.m. Um, just wanted to uh give a quick intro. We're introducing something different. It's a premium upscaled um gourmet. It's not just a regular gas station that you see around. Uh that's why we don't want to We studied the area very well before making this investment. We realized that it's not our best option to have a premium upscaled gourmet to have alcohol or beer or anything like that in there. So the regarding the pickup window, I just wanted to add that it's only going we being in the business for so long, we realize that there's a problem. There's a lot of times where there's single mothers, they have children with them in the car and they have a problem of getting out of the car and leaving their children in the car to go inside to grab stuff. Um so we came up with a solution is to have an app where you could order everything through the app um and pay on the app and then the customer would be notified that the that their items that they ordered is ready for pickup. So what they would do just pull up to the window um and just grab the bag that is already bagged up, ready paid for. So there shouldn't be uh cars or anything stocked up, people ordering, paying, etc. It's just convenience for people that have most of the times they have problems of getting out of their cars, which we realized a lot of times it's people that have children with them in their cars. We wanted to introduce something different. So everything that was laid in there, it was in a way where we're servicing people and the community in a way where we we want to be different. We don't want to be just like every other Cumberland Stewart's gas station around. We wanted something different and that's why we introduced this model.

Thank you. So people can still I mean people can still walk up to the store, walk inside, walk up to the counter and place an order and wait for the

Of course they could order. Yeah, absolutely. That's that's an open option. But the window is it's now we would like to do things differently. That's our business model. We wanted to do something different. So, our pickup window is strictly for the convenience of people not having to get out of their cars, whether it's late hours at night, early in the morning, you have children with you in the car, especially if there's a school nearby. As you know, a lot of people, a lot of parents, they have their kids, they want to make a quick stop last minute, they could just order everything through the app, pay for it, and they could just pick it up and and and and you know, follow with their day, basically. So, the usage of the app will allow them to come to the window.

Uh, everything's prepared. They're just picking it up. So, an order number, correct? Well, uh, people that walk up inside, are are they ordering from sort of like being in a fast food place or Correct. Okay. From the cashier. Yes. Or over the phone. All right. Yes. Correct. Thank you. So, the existing condition now is almost like a free-for-all on that side of the building, isn't it? It seems like

Yeah. So, right now there's there's there's no there's no access there's no road def definition out there at all. I mean, Madam Chair mentioned this evening that she's from that area. I mean, this from from this corner of the building to the alleys, you know, wider than the Northway in pavement. So, when you round that building, if you don't know where you're going, you're you're you're you're just in a sea of asphalt back there. Now, can you go back to the Oh, sure. folks.

Yeah. So, then in contrast, what we want to do is in one of the things that we've we've talked with with Al and staff and met Chris Marini, the city engineer, we actually went out to the site together to kind of look at some of this this condition out here to to to see how we can best define that intersection. And once again, as you can see, what we've done is we've created more of a conventional intersection here. We were mindful of how the stop sign rests across from that residential property that's there too because of the way the intersection is at an angle. We're making sure that um when you approach that intersection now you're addressing you're addressing the traffic you know with that driver in mind whereas under this situation well you could go behind that car you know just you know circumvention completely. So

I have another question for you. Um right now isn't this a one-way street? Yeah, I was I was just going to step in Chris Marini, city engineer, and I just saw Mr. Maple's uh chat comment pop up earlier. So, there were there was some back and forth back when Al first went through this coinciding with uh a discussion of whether this road should be closed. And basically that discussion was had and and since this site plan ties so much in with city right right away I met Roger out there to discuss this and he basically said we can make it work as a oneway as a two-way or a closed street kind of left it left it to me what I thought is best. It appears the the road has actually been illegally signed as a oneway and you actually when we were out there you even saw cars driving the wrong way on a oneway due due to the width of it. So it is listed as a two-way in the local highway New York State DOT local highway inventory. It appears based on its width and everything else that's exa actually what it's supposed to be. So, that is what I wanted to maintain and Roger's made it work. And with uh Al's extra work here, if this goes through, uh it's going to accommodate a lot of the traffic safety concerns in a way that I'm definitely sufficient with and and happy with. the green space that is by the entrance to your pickup window. The other side,

the the large area here. No, the smaller one. This one here. Yeah. So, I Is there a jog there on purp It's like a chicane going to your your pickup window. Is the turning radius coming off the now found two-way street? You know, is that inhibited there by that green space? So, I mean, I don't understand why the green space is going down like that so far. Sure. Great question. Um, so there's there's a there's some overhead utility right here at this location. There's a there's a power pole. Okay. That's right in that that particular spot. So, what we wanted to do is maintain, you know, clearance around that.

Um, we did we did you can see we put some vehicles on here to kind of show how um, you know, cars could traverse this. Um, we could most certainly open up the nosing of this a little bit more. Seems like, you know, especially here. Um, this one's a wide sweep. This one's a little tighter. Um, we were trying to to to show some of the intent here. And I think I could work with Chris a little bit on that, but we're not intending to like bring big trucks or anything down that that lane. Um, for sure. So, that's that chicane that you see. And that can be softened a little bit, too. it, you know, um, but was more or less trying to show that intent of getting the the the cars in there.

So, the answer to the question is there there's a utility pole right there. So, you have to go around the utility pole. We we want to go around the utility pole instead of relocating it. So, there'd have to be some sort of curbing or protection and that's what we show on the the plan. There's curbing there to protect that. Thank you. You're welcome. So, how will you have uh tables seating inside? Not at all. I believe it was suggested that maybe they have a couple of picnic tables outside. Was that one of the staff recommendations or

placemaking? Yeah, it was like it was a placemaking element observation for food establishment and and there might be some spots here along the side that we could we could do a a table or a bench or something along that side. Um, we've already looked at putting some of the other things that were in the staff report such as bicycle racks and things like that are already into the plan um that we've that we've been working on since uh we received those comments uh late last week.

So, I see on the um Fifth Avenue there's a little car. Is that going to be a parking spot or is that just I'm sorry. Um Oh, just here. No,

I'm sorry. Oh, yes. We had a we had a parallel parking space there. Um, we felt that that would be a good spot for say the employees so that we're not taking spaces that are right up by the doorway. Um, so this would be a low turnover type of parking space where you could have that that person that's, you know, one of the the employees working inside could park there. Um, and versus taking up uh the prime parking right by the door. So would there need to be any buffer there would between the parking spot and the car space? We don't need anything.

I think if Leella can provide a turning radius uh overlay or something, we can evaluate that. There's there's a citation in the code about um parking stalls budding sidewalks and the need for a 4ft strip or 4ft buffer. Um the parking uh up against the parcel's edge would be uh needing variances since it's within 25 ft. Um it's just the the technical element of it. Okay. Um do you live without that parking space if if needed?

We we might be able to re again this would be some of the things we can work through with some of the the staff review you know as we get into this space. Um, you notice we striped some of this out. We We may be able to pull that space off of that so that we could get that to work a little bit better. The sidewalk, as we've shown here, is it's a little different than what you saw, just as an an attempt to look at how we could, you know, work through some of staff comments about getting sidewalk, you know, through the the the lanes. And, you know, we're being mindful of like what's going on at this intersection. you know, we thought about bringing it around into this point, but then it really doesn't create a great pedestrian node there, and we really want that to be a good pedestrian mode. So, by node, so by bringing it back into the site and then bringing it here, it kind of creates a better a better spot for that. Um, so and it also helps alleviate having to put those pedestrians next to the the highway signage that's right there. I mean, I don't know about you, but what ends up happening in the winter time, they get clipped like four or five times. They get rebolted. Now, they're six inches lower, and now they're at head height for people walking by. So, we just take that equation out of there. So,

so, um, if you take the 125th Street entrance out, would you be able to put another spot there? Have two spots for employees and that could be a possibility. Certainly looks like there's enough room there to add another parking spot if they wanted to get the variance for those. I I should also mention that if there's a variance uh in need, you know, for like the site has limitations to it because it's only so big. So if the applicant needs a variance and you guys agree with their presentation, then your recommendation would go, you know, would have some some weight to it with ZBA. So

okay, get to another working. I mean, you're certainly going to have two people working at all times, I would assume, if not more. Uh, you're going to need food prep people, right? Um, let's see. So, um, apparently what have you done since the last time you were in front of the, uh, the prior, uh, committee? So is is there is that a new set of pumps and a new canopy? Yeah. So there's a new pump and the building the changes in the building are

are what? Yep. So So you have a the new pumps and canopy. So the pumps and canopy were positioned kind of where this shadow is here. um and over. Um so new pumps and canopy to here and then there's the small building dish along the back side of here to expand out for that um for that food service along the back. So that that's already been done. That's already been completed. And then the balance the balance of it um as you can see um there there's there was maybe a little bit of sidewalk work here. Um, and there was a little bit of sidewalk work here.

So, the context here is this was approved under the former code, right? That work was a site plan and Al for whatever reasons, maybe you can speak to it, made made some modifications to it and and um and that's why he's been delayed in opening and has hired another engineer and is back here. So, you're not pumping gas right now in front of us. No, no, it's done inside. I see. Yeah, guess there was a building permit issue.

Yeah, the building permit would have would have been issued because he had so plan approval. I think what happened is he made modifications and realized there were guy correct me if I'm wrong, but past the extent that would trigger, you know, having to show up here again essentially. That's correct, dude. So, go ahead. Do we need a variance for the location of the gas pumps? Yes,

under under the current zoning, you would need a variance for where the gas pumps are. Um, if the gas pumps were if we were to bring a project forward today with gas pumps anywhere really within the front of the building, the new zoning code with the shape and configuration of the site would need a variance for the gas pumps even where it was before. So, yes. So, the code has since changed since approval. So there's a lot of variances required, but a lot of them if Alan built it exactly to what was approved and was back here in front of new code would also the gas variances. The gas pumps where they're located now were on the approved plans for that location. Is that they've been shifted over so they were here

and they were now they're here. They were he shifted them to the wasn't on the existing the gas pump. the gas pumps were, but the the exact location is different. So, there were gas pumps on the plan before. They've just been moved page right here, which wasn't part of the It wasn't on the original plan. Gotcha. Gotcha. Now, I But there were gas pumps on the plan, so it's just the location. They were fine where they were, but now you have to get a variance where they're located now.

They were they were fine where they were under the previous zoning. they would likely have been fine under the previous zoning here. He just now that it's been moved, we're in a new zoning code. Case in point, the variant the the need for the variance. But I mean where they are now, they weren't that wasn't part of it was not. You are correct. Yes. Okay. Um, do I understand that in order to do they need a um special use permit? City didn't think so.

The city didn't think so. So, they don't need one. Well, the old use of a gas station to the current use of the gas station. I would, you know, I would put the question to Rick if he wants to see that. But um we saw it as a continuity of use as a gas service station. But you could I agree in this circumstance there's a number of

think it's on. I don't think he needs to get a special use permit. There are a lot of mitigating circumstances in this particular site. Okay.

I mean, I do think he needs approvals for a number of things, but that's not one of them. Now, with everything that you have as far as the staff report and all the recommendations that they have made, um I know we're missing a lot of things on this uh site plan. Um do I understand that we do not have an updated survey? Um there's we have a survey but we don't have a updated survey as like right this this moment

and we do not have a site plan with elevations um like building elevations you mean the the whole building we don't have the elevations for the building

we we do have we do have some elevations that we can provide Um the the elevations would be of you know the photographs that you see of what's built out there today. Um it would just be an architectural plan. So you do have photos of the building in the application. Um that's what's built that's that's what is plans um were uh prepared around. Um, so, um, if there's questions of what the building looks like, we're not we're not proposing to make changes to like the building facade or anything like that as it stands. He's he's u, you know, what's built is what's in the photos. Um, that that's that's what we're providing. Were there significant other significant changes from the prior approved site plan other than the canopy relocation? Like I mean are the building elevations and general location similar to what was approved?

I wasn't at that meeting but I think so. Yes. Correct. Uh the Okay. So yeah the there was a deal of grandfathering with the first approval. The the the applicant was able to get that approval because there was no changes really. The only changes that would have been made were closing the auto repair shop. Um, so being able to have that would allow grandfathering in. Um, you know, if you're using the site as was. Um, so if I recall, the old building had um garage doors, things like that. Yes, they had garage doors on that side of it. Yep. Yeah.

That's But there was no food there before. It was a repair shop is what you're saying. Vending machines. Vending machines. That was about it, I think. Right. I think he sold cigarettes. You were saying a gender. So now they're preparing food and they're going to have a pickup or window.

So that is that is quite a difference um from a repair shop. Um, but overall I see, you know, Chairperson Dickinson made probably the biggest point is that the curb cut is is pretty close to a traffic light that is you have a stacking issue. You have a turn issue to the left. If you were to make a left out of that, that would be a problem. So, I think that's probably the biggest thing if you would agree. Um, and then there's a couple other comments that were made as well that would probably give us a start in in getting to a a better site plan that we can really look at. Um, I mean, it is it's I don't know if that's a change of use or what, but you know, you're saying the the component of selling gas and some products inside.

Yeah. Uh, now we're going to something that is selling gas and selling food, prepared foods. Is it chair? Can I ask just one question? Is it is are is there going to be a kitchen in the establishment? Is it where where's the food preparation taking place? There's a kitchen in the in there. You basically you got to eat. Sorry. Everything. It's a fast food. So there is not going to be like a kitchen where people are going to be actually cooking, but it's everything comes pre-cooked. You just warm it up, you know, maybe put the fries in the fryer. It's a fast food chain. So it's uh

I'm confused. Where is the food prepared? I mean, if if I ordered if I called up and said, "Hey, I want XYZ." And I You say, "Come pick it up at 8:00." Yeah. I mean, where does the food come from? It's it's every like the like they would dip the fries like I said in the fryer. I don't know what you would call cooking but it's not like a full cooking. It's like a fast food. It's different. A fryer is cooking. Yeah. I mean fire would actually you're going to need a hood. You're going to need a That's why you define it. Yes. Yes. Then Yes. Correct. Correct. So you're gonna have a kitchen. Yes. Correct. That's

and that there's a lot that has to be looked at with that by code. Well, so again this there was approvals and a building permit issued. Al started building towards that permit and then made deviations which is why he's returning back here. So this is a very unique situation, right?

A lot of this is already built in place. I think we we go back to uh Rich's comments about, you know, is this a change of use? I don't know. Um, you know, it seems like part of the addition to this business is now a kitchen and food. Um, I don't know what that means. If you know where that goes, I don't know if that is all in front of us or that gets worked out in a building permit, a code. I mean, there's going to be inspections. the health department, all of those things. Like Stewart's doesn't have a fry later, right? They don't have a They have ice cream. Yeah. They got microwaves. They have microwaves.

Microwaves. They have a pizza thing that So, if you have a fry later, you need a dancel system and a hood and ventilation and all of those things. And if you do, you have you have to satisfy that code and health department. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a county um you know and uh so those things would have to be looked at and code you know they're going to have to come in and correct say okay this kitchen is is to code I know we predominantly look at site plan approval I get that I'm not saying here so these things get followed up we look at it but it is part of ultimately them getting open yes correct

one question if I might if there's prior you know the the garbage detail and site plan review kind of specifically asks after whether or not there's a grease storage. Um does the applicant have grease storage interior uh built-in on the outside? Is it inside or is it outside? It's inside. Okay. It's Eric um being told it's inside based upon what the applicant is saying. Yeah. So all if it's all interior then you know that would be assessed when they submit their plans for u you know plans examination with the building department.

Yeah. they would have to ensure that all that stuff is code compliant, but it wouldn't necessarily unless like they were going to be introducing sort of outside grease storage containers or maybe you know built into the um mechanical systems uh subterranean or whatnot. Um it wouldn't if it it's stored inside then I don't know that you guys are going to be able to which that answers the question. Are there dumpster uh is there an enclosure for dumpsters on the plan? Yes, we're uh planning for a dumpster enclosure um on this this side of the building right here. And where's your snow storage going to go?

So, we'll use the we'll use a lot of the green space here um you know, from a snow storage perspective. So, he's likely going to have to, you know, move some of that into these these newly created green spaces. Um, you know, versus on the pavement. Um, we're going to add those snow storage areas to the site plan here as we as we refine. Um, but I would suspect that we're going to do some initial snow storage for any small events that are going to be that are going to be taken, you know, taken um taking up some of the green space. And obviously if we get a larger vent, it's going to have to be taken out by their hauler um a hauler here just given the size of the site. It's pretty small.

And um the transparency, do we have to have transparency on facade, all the the whole every side in the facade? Um it might be sort of the frontfacing uh commercial retail. Uh so it doesn't need to be on the back side or any of the things like that but the ground floor uh facade facing is required to have 60% I think. Okay. And do they have that? No. Yes. If they don't have it that goes through GBA for variance. They have to have a variance. Okay.

It's one of the few guidelines that is a must. This is a whole brand new parking lot. Is the whole thing new or he's resurfaced it. um since uh you know since the former gas station was there it's all been re the pumps got moved you had to excavate obviously you had to relocate pipes and and they resurfaced it so it's it's a clean it's a clean surface out there right now

okay and during the construction obviously had different phases compaction and back fill compaction all those uh all those inspections were done and everything's good and you're ready to go That's that's what um I was I was not part of the construction phase for that project um you know for this project but um you you had mentioned I think yes that building permits were present for the uh relocation or something codes I mean

my understanding is that codes did uh review a building permit application for the canopy So that's a standard canopy. Is it do you have a franchise with a fuel delivery company or It's It's Valero. Is it? Oh, it's Valero. Okay. So they have a standard canopy that they're requiring you use. Correct. This is an existing That's today. Yeah. Actually, somebody pulled it up on Street View, Eric. Yep. Okay. So that's that's actually what the site looks like today.

So are these all permitted as far as the the striping, the lettering? Is this all permitted under our zoning code? Sorry, the the stripe on the asphalt or the signage? The sign the signage. I believe the signage now will require a variance, right?

Yes. um in the I I'll I'll reference the uh the section just you know for your for the record. Um it's chapter 28554 B5 um which is a curious regulation but uh it it addresses canopy gas specific gas station canopy banding and striping. I, if I'm being honest, I wasn't aware that striping was a regulation uh for, you know, color coordination. Um, point of fact, I'm actually color blind. So, um, but it is in the code. Um, it was noted in our review. So he would need a variance for the can

for the appearance for like the the appearance. Yeah. The the striping like if you if you feel you know if you feel that that's um if you feel strongly on the subject you could you could let the ZBA know. Yes. Let the ZBA know that's okay. Let them know it's okay that it's striped like that. Yes. They all like that. Yeah. Um, so with everything that's on here, do we think that we can come to conclusions as to all the variances you need? How many how many variant? There's got to be a ton of variances. 20, 15, 20.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's going to be an interesting case to present to the to the ZVA. This is a uh I think Rick should take a good look at it, too. And um the ZBA is going to have to give input on it. ZBA also gives input on questions of the ordinance itself. So it's the right spot to go to

next. Well, Chairman Dickinson, do do you think that at least at this meeting we can take some of the suggestions they had and the board had and send them off to start their ZBA process as well as the changes to the site plan? Um, well, I would like to know whether or not we can declare this application complete if we don't have a up-to-date survey, nor do we have elevations.

I mean, also you, you know, we're requesting some changes to the actual site plan. So, we need to kind of see those. So we do have precedent you know in this board of again granting an application complete means that you feel comfortable in a public hearing if those changes are then presented. It doesn't preclude us for asking for more information or asking for site plan changes specifically. I feel like a lot of the changes that are mentioned involve city right away and my direct input because of the unique location to this intersection which the applicant has and his engineer has worked you know hand in hand with me on uh I don't correct me if I'm wrong I don't see changes here that would substantially affect a seeker determination or bring this to a point that again they they look like it's ultimately your call but they look like modifications within the realm that could be worked on prior to the public hearing and submitted at that time. If not I would just clarify to the applicant exactly what the other documents you request are and we'll go from there. I would certainly like to see a new site plan. Um, with some of the suggestions that we made, if you're in agreement to make them, I would like to see them on paper and look at them again. Um, I don't know how you want to deal with the survey or what is what is the protocol? I mean, can we grant this application complete without site plan elevations and a new survey?

Well, I I would know. I mean, we just conditioned approval without an urban runoff and control plan, which also affects site plan. So, there is precedence for it. So, you're not approving at this point either. I mean, you're only entertaining the question of whether the application is complete enough for you to schedule a public hearing and uh perhaps take seeker action, you know, and actually have to take seeker action, right? Which we can do. So, um when would when would you go in front of the ZBA?

We'd have to look at the the meeting schedules here. Um Eric, I'm not sure when. We're we're two weeks out as of tomorrow. Um Angie notices the uh the neighborhood Friday and I'm not I'm not all that sure that we can make the May meeting. Um but certainly reach out to her and see if you can try. Uh she needs time to to look at variance requests though. I think that this would probably be a little bit

you'd have to talk to her, but my indic my my feeling is it's probably not going to pan out from May. Um in which case I'd still recommend getting your application in as soon as possible so that we can at least get the administrative review parts of it then started. Okay.

Yeah. So there we wouldn't be like a lot of the administrative reviews take place. Angelina uh reviewed this proposal as well. Um, so she's aware of uh the variance the variances involved. Um, although I I I feel like you guys you guys probably Roger, you probably got a good handle on this and reducing some of these variances. So, um, but I I would I would my my advice would just be to reach out to her uh tomorrow as soon as possible. Um, and that way uh if she can't get you on May, then you'll be teed up for June and it's the first Wednesday of every month. Um, usually the deadlines to submit just as a, you know, for the public's uh knowledge, the deadlines to submit for planning board and ZBA are at least 21 days.

Um, thanks Eric. I I don't it may even be beneficial for them to go in front of them even if we're not there's a few other left just to see what their thoughts are. I agree as well. I mean, I I I would still have to vet it with her uh because there's a deal of preparation that she requires in order to effectively convey the information to the board members. And you know, we're looking at a little bit of a change to the site plan. I wouldn't say it's a small change. We're actually moving a curb cut,

you know, but overall, it looks like we're taking a free-for-all and at least controlling the traffic in a better pattern. Um, but I, you know, I think we need to see see how that works out in the context of the parking and and that could create another zoning issue with the, you know, a variance for that when we close off that curb cut if you're going to increase the parking. So, I don't know. I mean, yeah, I I think you got some work in front of the zoning board. Agreed. U we so we we're eager to get there

and well I believe we can still um declare this unlisted under seeker when we hear from the public. Yes. Want to do the public first. Okay.

Um is there anyone in the audience here tonight that would like to speak? Okay. Good evening. Um, my name is Martin Ooka. I live at 874th Avenue directly behind the proposed business and I appreciate the business owner's effort in making the building more aesthetic and your efforts in trying to lessen the impact to the neighborhood. But, uh, grandfathering that in is a gas station repair shop in this operation that's going to go on to 10, 11, 12:00 at night, maybe longer. Um, is going to impact the the family life of the people there. U, I already uh have been impacted with the lights shining in my bedroom. Um, they even light up the trees in my backyard. I'm sure that that can be rectified with some direction dropping them down. Um the traffic in that area has always been a nightmare and now we're going to increase it. Um I don't I don't if it sounds like you're not going to change that close that road. Am I correct in what I'm hearing? That's that's definitely benefit because that's an outlet for that fiveway intersection. It's just that people go the wrong way. proper signage and maybe some enforcement might curtail that. Um the narrow part of Northern Drive Extension um when you get down closer to this the stop sign that's you know where where it flows into Fourth Avenue, people park on both sides of the bridge and uh if you close that road down that's going to that's going to cause problems for

emergency vehicles and whatnot. They're going to have to go around and come in through there and everything. But, uh, I'm a little concerned with, you know, the hours of operation and being able to have, uh, you know, some quiet time to go to bed. And, uh, I get up at 5:00 and go to work. You know, there's also the the the fumes of cooking food going to be exhaust right out of the back of that building probably and right towards my house, and I'm going to be smelling food constantly. Uh, dumpsters. I don't know where you're going to put them, but um dumpsters are going to attract probably some rodents, which we didn't have with a with a gas station. Um Hank didn't sell cigarettes or anything there for the last 101 15 years. So, I mean, about saying that Hank was selling anything there other than automotive uh supplies is uh not true. My family's been there for 70 years. I can remember before that cinder block building was put up, you know, and I think this I mean it's going to change the neighborhood. So I think whatever restrictions or whatever limits that you can put on it, I'm going to be having cars pulling out of there 12:00 at night. You know, probably some people are not going to be very patient. Can Can you point on where your house is?

Yes. Okay.

Stop sign there. Nobody. I mean, the school bus is all stuff at the stop sign, but you know, that's not the only issue. um because it's going to greatly impact the neighborhood if it stays open till um I know the some of the other u same type of operations stay open later. Uh I guess you already addressed the one issue and the main issue I had was uh closing the street down. Snow removal for that property is also going to be a problem. I don't know if anybody's thought about that, but you've already uncovered a whole lot of variances. I think if everybody went through it with a fine tooth comb, you'd probably come up with a couple more. I just wanted my voice to be heard. I I have made other comments over the phone with people. I did send an email that whoever Will is

right and we we did receive it. I have read it. Yes. Thank you for that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Pope. I appreciate you.

Is there anybody on Zoom that? Yes. Uh, go ahead, Stephen.

Hi, board. Uh sorry I couldn't be there today. Um but just as a quick uh note on the discussion about the canopy um I I don't know that the recommending any the recommending um variance on that makes a whole lot of sense. the that whole section. I'd just say um you know, refresh yourselves on that because it any sort of you know sort of going along with the variance here kind of undermines the entire point of of the section. So I I don't know that it makes a ton of sense to recommend that uh v to to get to grant the variance. Uh it just kind of you know it really undermines the integrity of of the entire section. So, um if y'all feel that way, then perhaps revisiting this section and um as a change to the ordinance is is more uh in order. So, um rather than granting a lot of variances and such. Um that's all.

Thank you. Um Al, could I ask a question? Sure. Absolutely. Do I understand that you own a similar um gas station and food on 109th Street? Is it 109th Street? The five fivestar five Yep. And how is how is I I read on Facebook all the time. They just love your food. Thank you. And your sandwiches and Thank you. everything you put out there. Um are you open there until 12:00?

Uh yes, we are correct. And we're that's why we uh we've never had any issues. Uh you could check the police reports I guess or we're actually everybody asked us to open 247. It's just it's a lot of work for us to do that. But um again we have similar type of uh business that that that at FiveStar and we don't have any issues and we're like we we're a part of the community. We've been around for 15 years and uh we've we've never had any issues and people actually like I said always ask us to open 24/7. Um and we we understand his concern as a neighbor and we will make sure that you know as neighbors again we get our business from the community. So and it's that's the kind of relationship we have with the community. So we we don't that's something that we will definitely work on. Uh it's not something that has that you guys have to enforce us to do. That's something that we would actually genuinely do as as a part of the community.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Anything else? No. Thank you, guys. Okay. Um, we certainly could right now uh make a motion to declare this unlisted under seeker. Somebody like can make a motion. So the the seeker application usually uh comes out when you've found that the application is complete complete can't do it before.

That's what um Sure. I mean yeah the problem is we deal with the the planning regs and the seeker rags. The seeker also has a um a provision that uh uses the same terminology, but it might slightly mean slightly different things. But uh I mean if you're satisfied that you have enough information uh to make a seeker determination uh then you can go then you can declare that the um the application for the seeker is complete I guess. Do you understand what I'm saying? Have I botched it

or matters? I mean, do you do you deem the application for the plan for planning site plan complete? I guess that that might be better. I you know, I think the site plan needs some work. We agreed and right now we don't have a lighting we have a lighting we need a lighting plan for this because we are going into the dark hours and night. Um so those things we don't have. So as far as the elevation of the spike plan

we don't have as far as an application per seeker you know I don't know um we kind of know where we're at with that. You know we know what it is. you have enough information to make a determination. Yeah, I believe so. Um, yeah, we know the impact, you know, um, we know what the operation is. Um, and you can, um, but with regard to, yeah, we already do have some changes in the site plan. So, I mean, that we need to see that um before we can go with um saying, hey, this application is complete. As far as seeker, the application for a seeker determination is probably

So you're not, it sounds like you're saying you're not ready to schedule a public hearing. No. And declare the application to fill out that application. I'm only one. You can still do the secret. I I'm one. The other board members may have some input. Right. I understand. All right. So we would like to make a motion. We have enough information to um declare this an unlisted under seeker. Can I get a motion for that? Y is there any second? I'll uh I'll move to declare this uh an unlisted action or seekers. Second,

everybody. I I the motion has passed. Uh I believe at this time we can also make a uh motion to declare this under seeker as a negative declaration. I think we have to see the advanced site the next site plan. Yeah. So that's that's my opinion.

All right. So how would you gentlemen like to continue? Um, are we going to make a motion to declare this application complete or are we going to ask them to come back for another goround? Yeah, I I think they they've got a lot of work to do. Uh, they're not going to be able to be in front of a hearing. You know, they they have a lot of variances that they have to go through. That's going to take some time. We don't know if they're even going to get in front of the ZBA in May.

So, we're not the, you know, we're not holding them up. uh they have to do some work on the site plan. They've got those other uh approvals that they need from another board. So, you know, I think that uh I think the next meeting they come back and with the changes to the site plan, the lighting plan survey, the survey and um elevation and see where you're at with the ZBA at that point. Site plan elevations. Yeah. Um may I interrupt? Yes. Are there, you know, in there um are there any variances that you would recommend the applicant yet or to the ZBA?

Well, if there's a variance needed for the Valero sign, I think, you know, we're going to have to recommend that they can't operate a franchise named Valero probably without their signage requirements. I think they have a list there. I mean, if you wanted to make any mention of variances that you feel the applicant uh should be granted, then at least um if if not on the record tonight, they could email the ZBA email individually as well if that's easier. Yeah. No, I don't I don't see

just wondering if any of you felt strongly on some I I note the canopy banding and striping is one of them. So, I mean, it's already there. It's what Valero puts out there on every gas station. So, I don't have a problem. You don't you don't have to tonight, but like just understand that if if you guys review any of those variances and email the ZBA that that um that has some standing. Yeah, I believe you know the canopy we could recommend to the ZPI.

Yeah. So, at least that one jumps off the page. All right. So, what we're going to do right now is ask you to come back. Um, if you have your ZBA meeting in May, you can come back in May. If not, we we still want would you not what if they make the adjustments your concerns which I believe is a a lighting plan is the documents. What is the documentation that you're not requesting for complete application or that's prohibiting?

The site plan is a significant change with regard to the curb cut and elev site plan with elevations and new survey. Okay. And so if these are prepared and they address your concerns, even let's say they can't get in for all their variances to be approved for reviewed by ZBA, would you still be open to application completeness next meeting? I believe so. Yeah. I mean, there's precedence for that for conditioning public on ZBA.

I think we need to see it. And does that trigger a another, you know, we have to look at the setbacks with when you're changing that curb cut that could change some other things with regard to the site plan um that are unrelated to the curb cut. Um so you know, we need to see it and you know um I think that's where we're at. Meanwhile, they they've got a lot of work to do anyway. So, you know, come back with a completed change site plan with a lighting plan. you know, get a survey um and then we'll have a better handle on the whole thing in a month.

Yeah, I think it would be appropriate to allow them the opportunity to come back next month to get to a complete application

for sure. So, we would like you to come back next month uh hopefully with new site plan, uh, elevations, survey, lighting, and if we can get all that looked at and approved, we would certainly then deem your application complete and schedule a public hearing.

Okay. Um, so Eric, just so I'm up to speed here, we'll we'll reach out tomorrow regarding um the ZBA process um if we're not able to be on that next ZBA meeting. Anything we can do from just so that I feel like we can get rid of some of these variances, as we've talked about, I think just by making some minor subtle changes, they'll they'll go away. Um, but I would like to be proactive as we are going through this process so that we're not waiting on a monthly cycle. You know, I I really want to make I mean I appreciate staff and Chris's efforts, you know, from that perspective. So,

go ahead, Chris. You were saying something. Do you have any interest in like designating a member subcommittee to to meet with with them if if available or anything? It's a lot of work. I think they're going to be okay. I I just They have more work to do. Okay. I think we can work most of this out with staff. Be honest with you. You know, I'm already encouraged that you can do that. Um my my question still remains, is new turnpike going to stay one way or two? Two-way. It's legally two-way. It's legally a two-way. So, there is a sign there that says one way, correct? On Fifth Avenue. one way going.

It's not legally signed. Well, I know it's not, but somebody's gonna have to take it down. Yes. Again, it's, you know, to me, but you live in that neighborhood. The scrutiny is down. You know, this is this project's a win in in my books, right? You've seen how hard I've pushed for developers to improve the public rightway and the push back I've gotten in this past year I've been here. And here we have a developer who's going to improve ped, you know, public safety on a city rightway. So like this whole thing is a win in in my books and it's uh for for those those parts of the concern. No doubt. Where did the sign come from? Do you have any idea?

It was there since 2011 on Google Earth. So it happened a while ago and street review before then. So and apparently it's universally ignored. Chris was there with me. We watched vehic vehicles together go. No one believes it's one way. Do do we get a hold of DPW to tell them to take the sign down the traffic? We can

again the the existing configuring configuration of the roadway is poor. It's like I'm almost like I don't want to touch it till it's done right maybe or we take the the sign down now, but it's just under the proposed configuration, the narrowing, the bumpout that helps break out the line of sight um to the intersection. I like it as a two-way. Right now, I don't like it anyway. So, it it will be resolved though. Okay. We have a traffic unit that can install and take down size. Okay. So, just procedurally then, is there just a motion then to table that for tonight? Is that what we're doing? I don't think we need a motion. You come back, right? All right. Just want to make sure.

We'll call you tomorrow. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Probably should do a motion though. Oh, I think you should do a motion actually just to table it for the next Do we need a motion to table or just they're just coming back? They can get on schedule again. Right. Right. Listen to Ray. I'd like to move to table this uh project until the next meeting. Second. Everybody agree? Yeah. I I pass. A board can only act. That was more of a question. A board can only act as a

we acting by being silent. So So for the record, the next meeting is May 19th. All right. The uh What is it? All right. So, uh, our next story

project on the agenda is PLPB 2026002288. No, we just did 885. Why don't we go to the next one? Uh, PLPB 20260023. Uh, 1584th Street. Uh, the old Troy Pork store. Good evening. My name is Kelsey Carr. I'm the civil engineer with the project from Lebella Associates. I'm joined by Charles Mayer, the architect also with Lebella. Um, as well as the applicant and owner of La Capitol Tacos, uh, Yair Dela Roza. Um, so this property is located at 158 Fourth Street. It's at the corner of Fourth and Ferry Streets. Um, the property itself is 6,900 square feet in size. Um, so the existing building was most recently known, as you said, as the Troy Pork Store, but has since been vacant for almost 20 years after their closure in 2008. Um, so the previous property owner started interior demolition, but left the building in a state of disrepair. Um so a structural evaluation was conducted by SB engineering on March 26th and it determined that the building is missing critical structural components that are needed to resist standard uh gravity lateral and wind loads. Um so therefore it's unsafe for occupancy and a hazard to public safety. Um so that uh documentation was submitted to the city and the building was then condemned on April 8th. Um recommending that the

building be demolished as soon as is practicable. Um so this building is a listed historic structure. So that adds a level of complexity to this. Um so we did submit to Shipo for their review. Uh we did receive initial archaeological comments from them that recommend completion of a phase 1A 1B survey. Um so we've started conversations with an archaeological consultant um Hudson Valley Cultural uh but we're awaiting correspondence from Shipo regarding their full review of the demolition and the proposed project before we initiate those services. So these here um are a few photos of the existing building elevations from Ferry Street and Fourth Street. Um as you can see the building's in rough shape. Um and these are some interior photos. So basically like the entire floor structure was removed um which makes it very very unsafe. Um and there's not appropriate bracing. Um so the for this proposal we're planning to demolish the building um and basically all of the site components that exist today. Uh the property is located in the downtown mixeduse district and the neighborhood floor development intensity zone. Um so we are uh basically so the existing building is roughly 1580 ft. The proposed building is around 4,130 ft. So, it's going to be larger and it's going to extend to the two side property lines um and and a little bit further back into the property. Um other site improvements will include uh resetting of the existing curb and replacing the sidewalks in the rightway. Um there will be three grass pave parking spaces that will include one accessible space at the rear off of the um the alley. And then there will be a 12t wide gravel pave access drive for truck deliveries to the

rear doors. Uh we are providing an exterior bike rack. There will be a trash trash storage enclosure which will be a black PVC coated chain link fence with privacy slots. Um all of the exterior lighting will be building mounted. So I'm just looking at this in terms of zoning compliance uh related to the neighborhood 4 development intensity zone. We are complying with all the major components with regard to the building placement, height and frontage, parking and accessory structure setbacks, maximum impervious coverage, as well as the right-of-way encroachments. So from there I'll turn it over uh to Charles for some architectural updates. Hello, Charlie Meyer from LeBella. Um, for the record, I'm not the architect of record, uh, but a project manager and designer. Um, just real quickly, how do I get to the next guy? Okay. So, um from an exterior perspective, um we we're making uh a corner presence um using the guidelines and creating the base and storefront and uh and awnings to uh relate to the pedestrian scale and vehicular scale. Um material-wise, we're still developing that. Um, and I understand after seeing some comments that the um the corner entry would require a variance. So, we'll be eliminating that um and having it perpendicular to Fourth Street. Um, from a plan perspective, that feels like we're in good shape where we're oversizing the storefronts to uh increase the indoor outdoor um

relationship. And um while it would be nice to have uh operable windows, it's not exactly practical for a a dining venue on that corner. Um beyond that, we're looking at some of the comments that we recently received and um look forward to your input.

So we can I mean this these are some first blush. This is an interior perspective with an open kitchen and you can see the oversized windows to increase the interaction street to uh interior. And then this is a first blush of a an exterior rendering um where we haven't settled in on materials but we do see earth tones as being a priority uh to complement the earth tones you know in the adjacent buildings. Um, and then, you know, beyond that, scale-wise, I think we're in in good shape, but material-wise, I understand there's there's concern. And, uh, you know, like I said, we're looking forward to your input. I did notice one comment was, uh, regarding some lighting there. Under canopy lighting, um, shouldn't be an issue. Those are opaque canopies, either standing seam or, uh, opaque fabric. and uh all building mounted lighting will be uh night sky compliant.

Um so I just wanted to address quickly some of the staff note comments that we received. Um so as I indicated, coordination with Shipo is ongoing. Uh we're hopeful to receive a full response from them back next week. Um and then in our next submission, we are looking to evaluate and include updates related to the truck loading zone, which will be within that gravel access drive at the rear. Um we will provide more detailed design for the outdoor seating. Um and with that, there'll be some kind of landscaping buffer um from between the seating and the and the sidewalk and the seating and the parking. Uh and then we are also going to evaluate if we can provide a dumpster um instead of the trash bins that we were proposing. Um, but we need to look at circulation of the garbage trucks. Uh, and then the signage will be revised to meet the 32 foot maximum. And then we'll take another look at the ground floor transparency and try to hit the 50% requirement. Um, so I guess with that, our goal is to start the seeker review for the project. Um, it is, I believe, an unlisted action. Um, we would be looking to, I think, try to submit for next month's meeting to come back to you guys. um potentially for the public hearing if you're open to that. Um and we're just looking for input from the board. So I'll turn it over to you questions.

Chair, can I just say one thing? Yes, sure. Thank you. Um I heard I heard the gentleman say that you were going to uh not seek the uh variance for the um corner entrance. Uh the I just want to point out that I just from my point of view the the building across the street has a corner entrance. It right for right now it would kind of it would kind of match it but No, that's it. We're of the opinion that it's it's your your your project,

right? No, but we're of the opinion that's the right way to go. Um but we're interested in moving the project forward and if the variance was going to be something that that you know prolong this uh effort um we would design it perpendicular to the road and then once we were into it we could we could seek the variance after that. But um I think it works either way. I think the important thing is the presence of some sort of tower element on the corner. Um, so but that's these are details that are still being worked out. To be clear, I'm not a member of the board. I'm just a lawyer. But yeah, sorry. Yeah. I mean, if any other board members have thoughts on that, we'd be open.

Yeah. I I actually like the the corner entrance and I I think um it has that it brings out the whole area. So, I'm I'm a fan of it. Okay. Uh, Eric, do you know is that in the historic district or was it a historic building? Yes. Yes. It's it's across the street from our local historic district and it's reg and it it is within the state and national boundaries. So HRC only is required to review projects within our local storage district or maybe the viewshed as well of it.

Yeah. So something HRC is required to be consulted when it's in the local district. And then if it's adjacent to customarily or historically it might be advised that they consult them. you know, they they may have recommendations on color, but also um given that this was submitted to Shipo's Chris system, uh I I believe they may come back with comments that may just be essentially analogous to what HRC would review it for.

Um so, I mean, you might, you know, it doesn't cost anything for an applicant to consult HRC. They might want to go and talk about like colors, you know, they mentioned earth tones and stuff like that. So that that's something that has been So the local district though is on the other side of ferry. Yes. Okay. So it stops at ferry. Yes. It it has a it has a weird little boundary to it, right? It kind of cuts in, cuts out and goes all the way around and whatnot. Courthouse sage or on you know that's all ferry. This is on the other side of ferry and then so it's but it was an historic building. Was it on the national registry? The building

state. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's within the national boundaries. Now, I think I I'm not sure if you read the letter, but um the building itself, I think the building is registered, the current existing pork store. Yeah, it's on the state and national register. And then the property is also separately listed because of the former Troy pottery that was dates back to like 1799. Right. So, you think you're going to be hearing from Shipo? Uh, will they be starting right away as far as digging and doing whatever they have to do in the backyard to see what's there? Well, we're waiting on the letter to see what their reaction is. Um,

right now if somebody speaking on the microphone, I'm sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. Usually Carrie. Um, right now with just a preliminary investigation, there were there were five buildings on the site behind the pork store um after the turn of the century. So, a a good percentage of the site has been um disturbed.

We just don't know how much and we need to find that out before we do any of that. Um if it doesn't require it, uh great, but otherwise we have some folks ready to to jump in and take a look. Um we did wonder about the um the demolition. as long as our demolition doesn't impact excavating, which it won't. Um, are we allowed to proceed with that once we see what uh the letter contains on uh we should have that by the 30th. 30th.

That was the hinging factor as far as the test pits in the phase 1A in the backyard as to whether or not there was um substantial uh previous structures built on on on top of it. Right.

Right. So, but the the building is uh the existing footprint is 10 foot lower than our proposed um footings. So, we wouldn't be disturbing anything. We wouldn't be digging. You know, the only thing that's coming up are the um there's some pavers that are on site and uh some planters that kind of define the uh perimeter. All that stuff is just being moved off to the side and uh and the building because of the abatement and everything is being basically surgically removed from the corner. So we're waiting waiting to see the letter from Chippa. We're waiting from National Grid to make sure that the uh overhead line is attached, all their utilities are taken care of, and um it sounds like both the city and um it sounds like we were we're allowed to knock it down. We just want to make sure we do it properly in the right order. So,

you've already gotten a demo permit. We Well, we the demo permit. I'm sorry. I I know your voice carries, but could you please Oh, sorry. But um we applied for the demo permit. I don't think it was going to be granted um until we had permission from

I told them to hold off until after this meeting just just as a a courtesy. Um which, you know, quite frankly is a a risk on my own personal end because this structural engineer report is very concerning. I mean, it's an imminent danger of collapse. it's lost structural integrity. Um, but due to the historic nature of the site, we are and the other, you know, backyard elements, we had them barricade fence off the sidewalk with proper signage and and all of that, which it currently is. And we are uh yeah I literally just want to wait for uh as a really just general courtesy um to just in case anything is brought up in a way that can be you know as demolition is staged prevented from having other damage. It will be difficult to you know require them to do anything within the building given this the structural shape like the the building's going to have to go. It's history.

It's history now. History. It's unfortunate, but it's it's structurally hands down and you know, not not in the game of putting lives in danger. So, you need a further sign off from ship or not? No. No, but we were waiting for that. The letters were supposed to get it by the 30th, right? So, it was But it's your call, too. I don't want to hold off and not like because it is standard. So, We try to balance everything. I don't think so. Yeah. I think you you'll probably hear from the building department, you know, when some of those other national grid documents and um things got the letters from everybody except electrical.

Yeah. And um that it was they took the meter and everything. It's gone. There's no active line, but they have we're not allowed to detach it. So, um, they told me they would be there between 3:00 yesterday afternoon and May 12th. So, we're hoping that we get a little sooner than Wow. Wow. I thought that was a joke. That's what they told us was between 3:00 yesterday afternoon and the city water has confirmed that cut off. City water and gas. Gas. Yeah. We can talk through it as well.

So tonight, what what are you seeking from the board tonight that it's a complete application? Yeah. Can you is it possible to deem it complete? I Well, I mean, and then we can go back and and work on these because we've already we've actually already already taken the comments and we have new elevations developing and everything. Would like to get on the agenda. The goal is to get a new set of drawings in the 27, Monday the 27th in order to be on the agenda for next month. Next month. So these drawings are these are just impressions of what you want.

Well, it's it's it's it's a reaction. It's a reaction to the comments that we saw that involved, you know, a pave. We were the the gravel driveway. We're going to have a pvious paver that has the gravel in it. the percentage of transparency. We're adjusting that the corner entry for now. We're moving it perpendicular to the um and we're looking at at building materials um because I know that while this is all going on and we'll get that letter and people are going to react to things um you know we need to have a plan one way or another. So

when staff reviewed this, they they checked all the boxes on the site plan checklist um and they hit all the major components of a project. They provided elevations, they provided their surveys, they provided their site plans, they provided their seeker forms, their complete streets form. So staff are comfortable comfortable with the idea of a complete application. Public hearing or no? Well, we have to deem the application completely subtle. Oh, we have to declare seeker. Unless I make a motion to deem the application complete. A second. All those in favor? I I opposed. Motion's carried. Um

seeker. Seeker. Seeker. Yeah. All right. Um, can I have a motion to uh have this listed under seeker as unlisted? Take to uh make a motion to declare this a unlisted action under seeker. Second. Third. Okay. Motion is carried. Oh, I believe until we hear from Shipo that we need to hold on a negative declaration. So, we can't do that. Um, need a vote on the my motion. We had a vote on my motion. What motion? The enlisted action. Oh, didn't we just do We did. No, we second it, but we didn't vote. No, we didn't. All

in favor? Just in favor? I I There we go. Motion's carried. Okay. So, uh, the next time you come, we should have more information as regards I'm sure the building's going to be gone. Um uh are you going to if we went through the 1A 1D archaeological those end up being acquired um about a month process? I I'm just wondering what to expect next. I would expect revised elevations uh more detail detail on the exterior elevation on the exterior seating. Okay.

Um a detail on the awnings so that you know that they're opaque. um a a material pallet probably two and a response to whatever we receive on the 30th from ship. So have you made any contact with HRC at all? Have you heard any Have you gone back and forth at all with HRC? No. No. Okay. Are they required to? No. No. Consultation with HRC in this instance is not required, right? You know, it might be recommended.

Um, as I said, there's no cost involved and it probably isn't going to shed a whole lot off of anything, but it's not a requirement like it would be in the local historic district, which is across the street,

which we're sensitive to, you know, um, we're not trying to put up Vegas on the floor there, right? Well, no matter what you do, they're going to have comments. Everybody does. So, um, okay. Do you want to schedule their do you feel like you can schedule their hearing with their complete application or would you, you know, do they feel that they will be ready for us to schedule a public hearing next month? Two months. Yes. Two months. One month. Next month. Yes. Unless Chipot says you got to, you know, well, that Yeah. if we all if something so out of the ordinary happens and we

I I would I would be I would yeah I would say that because they they probably want to hear from Shipo before issuing a determination for sure. So um whether or not uh so we get that letter we copy you guys on it, right? Yeah. And and we'll get a copy of it most likely too. Um but there may be additional measures that an applicant might need to take when given a response from Shipo. U to

uh commemorate the memory of a historic structure of some sort, right? They they we had another instance of another building similarly where we received a letter where they kind of listed some bullet points sort of suggestive actions to mitigate the impact of a of a of the demolition which is from their standard typically uh an adverse impact when it's demolition. And that's what the archaeologists had said in in this case because of it's a safety hazard. Some of the things we can do is doc docu documentation. Yeah.

Documentation interior, exterior, photographic and and otherwise and any research that we find we can compile it and it gets registered somewhere. Yeah. Those those details and how that's done is you know is very well detailed in in the the letters that we receive from Shipo. So I I assume that they'll probably offer kind of an option of uh suggestive actions to mitigate the impact and and some of those are just like you said, you know, it might just be sort of documentation, pictorial evidence, some degree of commemorative action, you know. So it just I I I don't know what those might be. That's there might be pork tacos.

Yes. So I mean um they'll they'll they'll just before issuing a final approval probably want to hear back from but you know like they do have a complete application in in our assessment. So it's so if we were to schedule a public hearing is it possible to pull from the agenda if of course yeah whatever comes back from shipo is correct. Yep. So, in order for us to declare a negative declaration, can we do that the same night that we have the public hearing? That's Yeah.

Okay. Does anybody here feel that they should go to HRC or have no recommended drug? So, I I you know, with regard to HRC Um they're an advisory kind of committee. Um you know I guess we're saying the cities boundaries where they might have you know we need to talk to them would be across the street.

Um I think that they are interested in hearing about this for sure. I think that there's activity on that site going back to the 1700s I believe. And the pork store is spelled I think that might be pre-fire as a matter of fact. Um which is interesting. I mean when was the fire? Which one? 1860. Yeah. I mean the pottery district itself still has wooden houses and after the fire you couldn't build wooden houses. So it's it looks like a federal style, you know. So um the pork store was 1918. I heard that it was previous to that. So, and that was that was as of yesterday.

Okay. No, the pork source is clearly it's going, you know, we get that. Um, but you know, that was actually mentioned to me by someone from the HRC, so they've already done a little homework. They do have some comments, I believe. Okay. Um, wouldn't hurt to who do we see what they have to say? There someone specifically or Yes. What should HC? Oh, uh, yeah, you just reach out to Will, Will Will Will Hancock or he's our front deskman. So, he'll, uh, you know, just let him know that you're interested in having a talk with them and he'll tee you up in the next I mean, it's it'll be better than a root canal,

you know. So, but you know, I just know they have an interest in everything that is even proximate. Sure. You know, and this is quite proximate. You know, the building across uh ferry does have a corner entrance and you know, but this doesn't look like that building and but the line's got to be drawn somewhere.

I get it. But, you know, this could be in a suburban plaza as well. You know, that's what it looks like. You know, so um you know, you might you might want some input from them with regard to that. Um, you know, the concept obviously this is fine. You know, uh, the elevations were kind of quick here and, uh, we need some more. Absolutely. These are still being developed. Yeah. We don't want, you know, it can't be looking like an Applebees, you know,

not going to look like an Applebe. Okay. And the materials, even the, you know, even if it were be to be proposed of, you know, a metal panel, these are high-end products that are sustainable, you know, um they're meeting energy codes, all the other things that we have to consider. So, just but we understand both perspectives and they're still we're still getting it together. I think the people in the city are really sensitive to an old building getting torn. I mean, seriously, this is like people get really upset. I've been downtown for 35 years. Man, people go nuts, right? If it's a vacant lot, they're a lot easier.

So, it just behoove yourself, you know, because these people can, you know, maybe create some negativity we don't need and we'd like to keep it positive. So, let's uh behoove yourself to reach out. The HRC meets every second Tuesday of the month, correct? Yeah, that's where I'm going. Every second Tuesday of the month. Well, we can get their input informally, right? Right. From you can get it from Will and um

that would be great. Um their um gravel pave does that have to be okayed by code in order will they have

Yeah. So that the reason that came up is typically an approved parking surface doesn't have gravel uh in the city of Troy, but uh that's like compacted gravel that we're usually talking about. Gravel paves got a a grid underneath it um which is you know observed. I don't I don't know. I would I would just want to get a clarification from the director of code that despite the use of stone uh that the the the framework structure of the gravel pave would be sufficient. I just I can't that's why the recommendation is to confirm with the director of code enforcement if that's an acceptable parking surface.

Okay. Though we want to prevent any sort of erosion and anything like that and we also want to limit the amount of heat and everything. So, no, no, I mean like I kudos that you're trying to make this a pvious surface for sure. It's just I don't you know I was a I was once upon a time a code officer and usually gravel is um you know an unapproved surface. Okay. Other questions?

You want to schedule? Is your urban runoff and control plan and uh storm water being is that gravel pave important to that? So we did not prepare an urban runoff control plan because my interpretation of the code is that it's a redevelopment where we are not meeting the threshold for either existing impervious or quantity of disturbance. So I think we are under those thresholds. Are you under the threshold for cso permit review for Yes. I Yes. So So wait a second. The the existing building was how many square foot footprint? It was 1580 square feet.

And the new building the footprint is 4,130. So you've got a lot more roof. Yes. Right. a lot more runoff off a roof, but you're but we're talking about a storm sewer, but you have a lot of stuff going in the storm sewer. Um, so I mean I don't know, Chris, what do you do? Do you need a report on that? I mean, it's almost three times the size, three times the water.

Yes. So, I'm I'm just going to read a provision. This might I could probably say been an oversight. Um, urban runoff control plan. It's required for alterations of existing paved areas that equal or exceed 5,000 square ft disturbance um of existing paved areas or new development that creates 2500 square ft or more of new impervious area. So there's less than 5,000 square feet of existing impervious and we are not increasing impervious by 2500. Okay.

Is the portion of the uh site from the building south is is uh concrete. Okay. I I'm looking at that from how like DC would interpret things, but obviously the code is you read that again. Why don't we just review this closer internally? I just select here. Yeah.

Alterations of existing paved areas that equal or exceed 5,000 square ft of disturbance or involve 20 or more parking spaces. Uh B, a new development that creates 2500 square ft or more of new impervious area. So your position is that the existing concrete in the back is now impervious. So therefore a roof going over that would be impervious as well. Yeah. The the current pavers that are in the back are impervious pavers all the way all the way to the alley. No.

No. There's there's concrete from the building to the existing building. It's behind that the uh masonry wall along forth. Okay. So, all that's uh impervious. Okay.

And then we hit gravel, stone, pavers, grass, alley, but um but we don't exceed the 25 yard. Oh, I see. Are you are you able to get any kind of flow calculations? Um, I think our DPW st or DPU staff may have uh had some concerns about the cso.

I might be blending projects together, but I thought we did submit a sanitary letter. Double check your packet. I think you did, too. Oh, we did. Yes,

I I I think we should evaluate all this closer. I don't think it substantially changes application completeness. These things can be handled through the permitting process and but still and if they do need to progress then we ask them to progress prior to the public hearing. I I think the question will come up again you know so you know yes I agree and yes you did did submit that. Okay. So, want to declare the application complete.

Do you want to listen to the public before motion here? You don't. We're never required to listen to the public unless it's a public hearing. If you want to extend it prior to motioning, I'd like the input if anyone.

Hi. Um, I own 166 and 168th Fourth Street. So, it's about three houses down from the current pork store. I've been there since Black and White Taxi was in the current Capital. And the Capital Taco has brought nothing but positivity to that block. They've been such a great addition and I'm really excited for them to continue to expand and do well, the clientele, everything. They've been really responsible, active parts of the community. And so, I just wanted to to point that out as the the board is reviewing everything. Thank you. Anybody on Zoom?

Go ahead, Stephen. Yeah, I just wanted to maybe try to get a little bit of clarification in the discussion of the previous services and it's basically that as of a few years ago, there was nothing in that back lawn area and now the pavers that are there, if I'm understanding correctly, are being discounted from the pvious services. So I'm I'm just trying to like understand how those those pavers that are now there are impacting the calculation for pviousness.

Those are not being included in the calculation. The uh calculation is based on the concrete that was poured uh when the pork store was still in business between the store and the existing uh building to the south. uh anything that any improvements made in the last five years um hasn't weighed into any of the Awesome. Thank you.

There's no one left. Okay. So

the schedule of public hearing. Yeah. Okay. So I assume that you are prepared with whatever was on the staff report to work with everybody and get everything settled. um for sidewalks and all that good stuff. Yep. Okay. And you will meet with HRC. Yes. That's great. So, do you feel that you're ready for scheduling a public hearing? A month, two months. What do you what do you as long as

as as long as there's nothing unforeseen in the letter we get from ship? So, which we should see by the 30th by the 30th. So, next we're going to have everything addressing the comments that we've seen submitted on the 27th so that we're on the agenda, but then there may be subsequent changes if uh if we need to between then and uh the meeting and we'll we'll do what we can to get those to you guys before. So, we'll see new elevations before and with enough time on the 27th. You'll see new elevations and a complete site plan. Yep. with those with enough time for us to take a look before we have a potential public hearing.

Yes. Okay. So, um so we have those by the end of the month. You're saying the end of this month? The 27th. Yeah. Okay. So, then let us schedule your public hearing for May 19th. And if you feel that you're not prepared, we can just take you off the list if that's necessary. Okay. Sounds great. How's that go? Have a motion. I'd like to make a motion to schedule a public hearing on this project for May 19th. I second the motion. All those in favor? I opposed. Motion's carried.

Next. One action left. What? One action left. One action motion. Yeah. to adjurnn. To adjourn make a motion to adjurnn. I'll second that. All those in favor?