Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Okay, this is the March meeting of the Troy Planning Board to come to order. Would you stand please and we'll have a pledge. Member Shufel, will you lead us in the pledge? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God, indivisibley and justice for all. Thank you. Uh, happy St. Patrick's Day to everyone. Uh, call the role. Member Scully here. Member Dickinson here. Member Shuo present. Member York present.

Chairman Kio present. All present and accounted for. Uh, first item adoption of the minutes of the previous meeting. Is there a motion? I make a motion that we approve the meeting uh minutes of the meeting for February. Second. I second that motion. Motion made and second. Any discussion? All in favor say I. Post say no. The motion carries unanimously.

Next item uh review of proposed changes to chapter 285 of the city charter regarding zoning regulations. Motion. Um, I would like to make a motion that we are going to table this for this month. We have gone, Mr. Schufeld and I have gone through many documents, read lots of code and we feel that we have not been able to come to a permanent solution right now and we need to talk to more department heads. Second.

I second the motion. Discussion on the motion. All in favor say I. I. Post say no. Motion carries unanimously. Next item on the agenda is PLPB 20260010 223115th Street. Is the applicant a representative present? Yes. Tell us a bit about your project, please. Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Identify yourself for the record, please.

Yeah. Kyle Angstrom, Emmy Studio Architect. And so, um, this project is we're looking for site plan approval of, um, this is an existing two-story structure used as a photography studio. And my client is looking to convert this structure to four apartments with 10 bedrooms total. Um there is a a vacant green space north of the of the structure within the boundary of of the property. Overall property boundary is 50 by 100. Um that's basically vacant green space. Uh there was some concerns in in in my early conversations with with uh um with the town about parking requirements or I should say parking demand for um these these four new apartments. Um so the proposal here shows three spaces essentially for like a micro parking lot in that in that converted green space. Um, this is not something my my client wants to do, but is is happy to to um to do it if if there is a concern about the parking demand. Um, so we've we've uh provided some 5- foot tall uh green evergreen plants along the the edge to try to um kind of screen the visibility of of the parking lot. Um there's also there's also some sidewalk work that that needs to be done at the south side of the site. Um we've shown it here in our

Yeah. Right there on Eagle Street. So sidewalk needs some repair. Um it also needs a curb cut uh going moving south here. Um, this is also a question in terms of what help my client might have from the city. The the adjacent curb south of this is not accessible. So, there is a bit of a a concern there that you know that will we be going through the cost and effort to repair this sidewalk only to be met by this non-accessible sidewalk to the south. Um, so there's a question there.

Would that be the same issue with the the curb on the east side too, wouldn't it? East of your property. The There actually is a curb cut there. It doesn't have the the tactile Gotcha. But across the street, there's none. Uh yeah, if you cross the street to the south here, if you cross Eagle Street, you'll see that there's no it there's no curb cut there. It looks like there there is, but there's not. Um and also the the sidewalk is in is in is in pretty bad shape on that side as well.

Yeah. Um, so, um, to kind of answer some of the the notes we got back in the staff report, um, or Yeah. So, since since you're on this, Yeah. So, that that there's the southside sidewalk. We're proposing that it be essentially new concrete. Um all of this green space here would would remain um you'll see in the proposed elevations the structure is effectively remaining the same with new windows in generally the the same locations. Um so I think visually the the impact of the of the project is pretty minimal. Um, there was some concerns in the in the staff report about the the curb cut into the parking lot, which we are proposing that it be concrete and then the the parking lot itself be asphalt. Um,

can you show us what that is? Oh, sorry. where you'd like to see J where he's talking about where the curb cut is going to be for the parking where he's going to Okay. Yeah, we're proposing the curb cut right there. Um what about that pole? So, we have just just enough to to fit a 20 foot um entryway here on the side of the of the pole.

How So, Kyle, how would a car turn once the car is in there? Are you going You're saying three parking spots? Should we show the side? Sure. Yeah. So the the apron is 24 feet, but it's 20 at on the inside of the sidewalk. Is that it? So they can

Kyle, can you carry your I'm sorry. Um if you're gonna just if you're going to narrate anything, just take that microphone with you. So, now that Jim, you're looking at the site plan, you you've got your 18 foot parking space and then um you still have your 30-foot clear to back out of there. I see

and come out. So, you wouldn't have to back into the street. Now, you do bring up another point because there was some discussions about how to how to maybe redesign this parking lot to to maybe maximize green space. Um I I couldn't figure out how to turn these parking spaces so they're facing north south uh and still have the proper clearances. So um the site is surrounded by quite a bit of green space, trees, planting. Um this was the best that I could come up with given given what we're what we're working with.

So this parking lot would be right right up against the other building. The laundry. Is that a laundry? That's a laundromat. Yep. Yep. So, it would go right right to the edge of their building. Yeah. I mean, effectively Yeah. Now, what's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There might be concerns if if if that's flared if it affects their uh entrance and their ADA accessibility at the sidewalk there. Not saying it would, but Yeah. might just deserve a closer look. Yep. Yep.

Would they need ballots or something?

If you think of if you think such a safety the building there you're saying? Yeah. If there if they're like um or a fence or I know the fire department would ask for those things if there was like meters, you know, on the on the edge. Mhm. There there is a five foot buffer that we have between the building and and the first parking space for what it's worth.

Yeah. As long as they don't It's worth a look. It's as long as they don't decide to park closer to the Sure. building your tenants. Yeah. So, you know, probably some striping maybe. Yeah, we can we can provide for snow storage anyways as well. Mhm. You want to throw snow snow against the other building. Well, that's another good point. We We do have access.

That isn't where you were going to put your garbage. Yeah. Well, since the the comment for the snow storage, I thought here is snow storage and I think we still have enough room to put the garbage on this side. Right. Are you doing city city garbage takeout or you're doing hiring somebody to come in and get it? I think we would do the city the city. Yeah. I mean, we're I I haven't spoken to the to the owner yet, but I would imagine so. Yeah. So, that would be four four. That's not uncommon.

Okay. So this spa that space that you're indicating for snow snow storage is what like five feet between the screening and the building. However they get the snow in there. We behind the building there's I don't have the exact dimension but there's there's approximately a six foot alleyway. What is what is that? screen by existing fence. What is that that existing fence along the the property boundary?

So So between that fence and the building, it's five or six feet. Yes, sir. Well, how I mean, how would they get the snow in in there? Yeah. Can you carry the microphone with your car? Uh, I would think that six a six foot clearing here with with a five foot buffer is pretty ample space to Yeah, I guess. Uh, I would just say usually if you've got a parking lot, you're plowing the the snow into storage.

Sure. you know, I mean, I don't know if you're gonna maneuver uh they're going to plow or snow blow with that beep. So, we actually have if if this is if this is a concern, we you'll see that we have our 30 foot clear. We have our 18 foot parking spot and then we have another five feet here. So I can I still have space to bring the parking spots this in this direction effectively having about seven feet back here. Yeah.

As you know push it in it would be very difficult to plow snow around the corner and down into Yeah, that's fair. You know that's fair. So, what I can do is I'll revise this to show I'll revise this to show the snow storage along along this side here. And that still gives you room to back out to make a swing to back around and out. Yeah, we I mean we need a 30 foot clear. So, I'll make sure to maintain that. Right. You probably also make that that strip pvious too strip. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. Anything else? Carl, can I can I just ask you uh are you you're proposing access ramps on both corner both sides of that corner, right? The 15th street side and the Eagle Street side. Correct. Okay. anything else you want to point out?

Um, I think there was a question about would would we need to have a variance like an area variance for the setback requirement. In this case, our parking spots, which I think are the kind of substantial development here, are are beyond the 25 foot setback, right? 25 foot setback is here. This dash line indicates that setback. Um,

so the, so I had a followup about this with our staff, you know, and we had come to the conclusion that the zone referenced is it's not specific to parking stalls. It says parking zone. Um, so the creation of an off- streetet lot conservatively would be a parking zone. If you're maneuvering your vehicle in any of those areas, it is a parking zone is how we interpreted it. I would welcome Corporation Council's interpretation of it as well. You counted the driveway. That's we if if it's a parking lot, you know that we're we're calling a zone. We're calling an accessory parking zone.

But you're just striping 25 ft back, right? Yeah, our our argument would be yeah, we're we're striping on the other end of the setback here. So, we're we we tried to analyze whether or not it was just the stalls that were um to be 25 ft back or if it was the the zone where the stalls would be often get parking lots of this in here. So, We're finally either way, but we took a conservative approach.

I would think you drive right here. That would be my interpretation.

But that will set precedent. You said it was grass. But they're saying that this is going to be if there's no proposed parking within the 25 foot. That's what I think in the front. It's about where the show if there's no park proposed parking. Sorry, Rick. If there's no proposed parking within the 25 ft setback, then it seems to me they would would not need a variance for because the the rest of the area is just an access route.

Yeah. Okay.

So, Kyle, I don't know if you just heard you had a real time interpretation of that um that requirement. So, uh you can strike the the Okay, great. Um is that the only one they needed? Is that the only one?

I think the the other So is that can we last thing that I would bring up is there was a concern about the the sewer and and water capacity. Um this was blank on on the application but but doing some research on it I I'm calculating no more than 1100 um gallons per day for water and sewer. Um I guess we have to see if that would still require is that for all all four units?

Yeah. So I I basically did some research based on on 10 bedroom bedrooms um essentially and um I got to gallons per day. Um the parking lot would would add a little bit of runoff but for that square footage at$,850 I calculated um just another 85 gallons per day on average. Um, so I'm hoping that this is considered small enough of a project to to sort of bypass any further engineering studies on on that end.

Kyle, so 10 bedrooms, right? That's an average daily rate of,00. This is based on the peak hourly, which is a multiplier of four. So you're at a peak hourly of 4,400 gallons per day. and ultimately DP's call, but that I I believe that will trigger the combined store review. Okay. I would reach out directly to Andrew Golden and me, Chris Marini. Okay. For more information, okay, we'll go from there. And your driveway, get back to the parking.

Yes. Um, your runoff has gone to the street. Is that what we're doing? Water in your parking spot. Correct. 120 just one time 120,

but that's not figured in in the in your calculations. Well, I was saying that based on that square footage, you would you would anticipate 85 gallons per day on average of of added impact on the sword. Okay. So, yeah, that's not it's humans. Most of the water issue, right? The drainage issue. I was going to suggest if it was a bigger number, it's like a catch base. Yeah. I I don't think I don't think that that should move the needle too much, that amount of runoff, but

no opportunity for more pvious surface and green space in there. Is there if you have the three parking spaces? So, Eric brought up a good point just earlier in this um in this meeting about maybe making this this snow collection area over here um impervious. So, we could add that sorry impervious the typical confusing the two. How much space would that give you actually um back of whatever it's got in the back of the vehicle?

Yeah. So, I'm I'm just rough calculation. I'm thinking we can get another five feet. So, it' be seven feet by um by the width of the lot, which is 50 feet. So, seven by 50. Kyle, what's the square footage of the parcel? Do you know off hand? I was going to use that. Uh, overall it's 100 by 50 ft. The overall parcel. So 5,000 square feet.

And the the impacted area of development. Impacted area of development. I have the calculations at the top here. Hold on a second. You're not changing the exterior of the footprint of the building at all. So, yeah, it's it's essentially the parking the parking area is is roughly 1850 1,850 square feet. 1,00 I'm sorry, 850. So, 1850 of disturbed. Correct. Okay. Yeah. minus the 350 square foot that we just got back to the snow snow collection.

So, we'll call it 1850 just to be on the safe side for uh the analysis of an urban runoff and control plan. Um 1500 sounds a lot better though. still can also figure out quite frankly if the combined sewer review is triggered the urban runoff and control plan is also triggered as a side effect of that. Um but you know we could talk more line about you know the main thing is obviously the the peak storm water flow controls one year 10 year 25 year storm

small enough site maybe you could manage something that's a way to just contain it in the parking area and reduce the peak flows but probably going to need to be some argument that you're not increasing storm water to the combined Mhm. Chris, can you go over the 10bedroom calculation again for the water and sewer use?

So, using, you know, the basic design rates and, you know, there's always is an option for uh equivalent known water and sewer uses of very similar buildings to be used to justify lower rates. Just to say that as well. But using the standard design tables, it's 110 gallons per day of average daily flow or per bedroom per bedroom or 440 gallons per hour of peak flow, which each So everybody's using each portion. Yeah, each portion has a different design intent

throughout the design process, but the one that I believe DPU is referencing, they go off of the peak flow to determine whether or not the review is triggered. Gotcha. So, where does that leave us? Can we get a a approval contingent on on on this review? This is the first meeting and we always have to indicate application completeness and give a secret determination if warranted prior to establishing a public hearing. I don't have strong objections of if if the planning board feels up to it of them issuing application completeness and making a secret determination. But I do think that we need a conversation about this sewer and storm water things prior to the public hearing.

Mhm. Um I just have a I don't know couple thoughts. Um you are going to have a fourace bike rack and on the questionnaire it says bike rack and storage. is is will there be any storage for the bikes or is just going to be a bike rack? The proposed new for bike rack. Um when you say storage for the bike, she's I think board member Dickinson is referring to long-term storage

which um does not get triggered as a requirement for a project of this size. Okay. Um, and I see that your proposed bike rack is going to be in front right next to the front door. That's where we have it at the moment. Yep. Would I don't know. Um, I was just thinking of people walking by 15th Street, which is a very busy street, see bike. So, yeah, let's break the locks and take off with them. Um, I was just wondering on your Eagle Street in the back you have an access gate.

Mhm. On the uh south side, right? Would could that access gate be used and put the bike rack behind the building and it would be fenced in a little bit more than having it out front? Yeah, I don't see why not. We could do that. Okay. Um I don't know if it'd be easier to have your access gate on the Eagle Street side or facing, you know, facing 15th, but I think it would be a little bit easier to put your bike racks back there and not be so visible to everybody else.

Mhm. Okay. Yeah, that's fair. Okay. and all your shrubs on Eagle Street are going to stay and that green space is all going to stay. So, you will be doing um bringing up the curbs and putting in all concrete sidewalks on Eagle Street. Yes, ma'am. Yes. Okay. Um, it's probably ready to

Kyle, the uh trash collection site back there, how how will that be picked up? Through the parking lot or down that gate, down that alleyway there? I would imagine that it would be um come right through that access gate and the property manager would bring it out to the street wherever it gets collected. Is that um dormer that's shown on the on the back side is that uh just the roof or does it go all the way to the ground? That is just the roof if I recall. So that alley is about six foot clear all the way back through there.

Yes sir. Yes. Yep. There there is a rear elevation. Um I take it back. I think it does bump out slightly. Let me see. I'm going back to the plan. Well, it's still wide enough for trash removal down through there. Yeah. If if anything, actually, the way it's presented on the plan that I think at its narrowest point, you have about six feet, but it actually steps back from the roof line. So, um you have a little bit more.

Okay. Anybody else? Any questions? Do you have no problem talking to public utilities and and the city engineer resolve these those issues? Yes, sir. Anybody have any further questions?

Let's see. Uh if not, let's see if uh any member of the public wants to comment on this application. Anybody here to speak on this? Yes. Come on. Come on up. Identify yourself for the record. You have to yield the mic there. Greetings everyone. Stephen Maples. Um site plan. I'm sorry. Back up.

Yeah, I think it's fine. Um, so basically I think a lot of the issues that could be resolved in trying to dissuade the applicant from having as many units and therefore not needing the parking um this area is explicitly you know on street perimeter park block parking is encouraged. Um I think that that is more in line with the intent of the zoning the form zoning. um not to mention, you know, solves all the problems with runoff and all that kind of thing. So, um I think that might be the the stronger position um to pull that in line. Um and I would also say, um I think Tony, your your comments about the the um how the bike racks are exposed is a good idea, but at the same time, that should also be useful and near the door. So it if they're tucked too far away, that's not going to be particularly useful doesn't really help with uh encouraging those uses. So um finding that balance and finding those spaces or or screening or something of that nature to address those concerns. Um I think that's it.

Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak? Okay. Uh board I think I would like to make a motion to um deem this application complete. Should we do seeker first or should we do seeker afterwards? Pardon me? Do seeker next? Next after this or after you determine whether or not the application is complete. Okay. I'll second. Motion made and second to declare the application complete. Is there any discussion on the motion?

All in favor say I. Post say no. Uh carries unanimously. Okay. And then I would like to make a motion that we declare this uh and unlisted under secret. Second. Second. Anyone? I'll second that. Motion made and seconded that we find this an unlisted action. Any discussion? All in favor? I oppose. Say no. Motion carries unanimously. You need one more secret determination.

You you you made a motion to declare it an unlisted action. Okay. So the board finds it to be an has found it to be an unlisted action. Now the board has to determine whether or not there will be any significant adverse ne effect on the project upon the environment. Do we have to declare that now? Yes. So I'd like to make I mean you don't have to. I mean you could be appropriate if you want to find that make a negative declaration. This would be a time he wants. So Chris, do you

So I think we can make a motion like to make a motion to give this a negative declaration or seeker. Second. I second the mot. Motion made in seconded. Negative declaration. All in favor? I oppose say no. Motion carries unanimously. being addressed. Is there anything further this application? Um, you guys have declared the application complete, which means a hearing must be made uh within 62 days.

So, we scheduled the schedule the hearing for the next meeting or the second meeting. Kyle, do you think you'd be able to work out the water issues, water sewer issues? What do we think? I'd recommend the second meeting, Kyle. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh when would that be? May. May. Okay. Um Okay. So, second it is. So, I'd like to make a motion to schedule a hearing on this project for the third third Tuesday in May. That would be May 19th. May 19th. I second the motion. Motion made and seconded. Discussion. All in favor say I. I. I.

Post say no. The motion carries unanimously. Great. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Is there any any other business? Uh next item on the agenda has been removed from the agenda that is uh 20260011 and 20260012 has been removed. There's no other business in this line to come before the board. Is there any other business from the administration? Do you want to hear hear from the other people if they came to speak on those? Oh, I mean they're just here for our

I think. Yeah. Yeah. I think they're basically onlookers from RPI getting Is this Is this for an RPI capstone class? I just What group are you? Is Is this civil engineering? Where's my groups? Why aren't they here? Sure. You don't want to speak? I don't I got a different group than my own ones. They want to speak. No. Okay. Well, welcome. You guys still have one motion left to make. I would like to make a motion that we adjourn the meeting for tonight. Is there a second? Nobody wants discussion. All in favor say I.

Post say no. The motion carries unanimously. The meeting is adjourned.