Planning Board - Regular Meeting

This is the January 2026 uh meeting of the Tory Planning Board. Will come to order. Will you stand please and we'll have the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you to call the role. Uh board member scully here. Board member Dickson here. Board member Shufall here. Board member York present.

Board member Kio present. All board members are present. Uh we do have a quorum accordingly and uh so first order of business approve of the minutes of the previous meeting. I move that we approve the meeting minutes of December 25th. Second. Second discussion. All in favor say I.

Post say no. And the motion carries unanimous. Just need a minute. So the first the second item on the agenda tonight is review of proposed changes to chapter 285 of the city charter uh regarding zoning regulations. Uh are any member We're not going to call this right now, but just for my information. Any members of the public here to comment on that uh proposal? Okay, we're going to have to

pardon me, Peter. I mean, you could you could still let him speak. Um and as far as I know, this isn't an actual hearing, right? It's administrative item for you to provide recommendations. So I understand without corporation council here you may want to delay those recommendations without the full and we might not be able to answer all questions associated with it but up to you if you want to

All right. Well for the convenience of public we probably uh there are a lot of legal issues con uh concerning that uh proposal and we're not prepared to really deal with those issues unless we have the corporation council who's not here yet. Uh so uh I think maybe to convenience you we will we will give you an opportunity to speak but we'll reserve we're probably going to have to table a action on it until the next meeting but uh for your if since you're here uh we would like to hear what you have to say. So we'll call that first item review of the proposed changes to chapter 285. So uh anyone who wants to speak uh with respect to that proposal please come on up to the podium identify yourself and give us your remarks. Please limit your remarks to 3 minutes. Try it without the mic. Oh, we got to record it, right?

Yell at us. [laughter] There you go.

I just don't know if the Good evening everyone. Stephen Maples, South Troy. Um, I've sent you my my full remarks, so I'm just going to very quickly, you know, sort of hit the highlights here. Um I I think basically there's one there there's sort of one consideration right off the top of the head right off the top which is that that this these changes weren't um submitted to this body or even the city council with any sort of like backing or justifications um no reasons why no data backing up the reasons for the changes. Um, so I think like honestly just on that basis alone, I feel like the the the council could just say, you know, the the board could just um you take the action of requesting more information from from the administration as to like what's going on, why are we doing this, what's the what's the backup behind it? Um so that you can then make an informed um judgment on those things. Um or alternatively just because of that just say like we're just not going to recommend it, you know, either [clears throat] or. Um and then to the the content of the changes themselves. Um I think I can kind of summarize this into you know fairly simply that um the section two which is about you know getting rid of the language um for change of use. Um not only is this going to be just a massive uh increase in the workload for the board u massive increase on the workload for staff um but it's also kind of just sort of defeats the purpose of what this board is here to do. This board is here for um more more of like a policy and guidance kind of board. It's it's a public board that you know that is sort of it's meant to be sort of the um the voice of the people um to kind of have that voice be expressed you know within the bounds

of the laws but in those discretionary decisions within the law. this is the the role of the board and you know for for every single kind of change of use no matter how small it feels just sort of like a not a wise use of this of this body's time and resources. Um, and then I I will just sort of say with the uh the sort of the sections dealing with cannabis, I think that there's just another question here about um I I'm not sure that the the administration is providing enough resources and and uh backup data to understand I if we make all of these changes um the state law does not allow us to sort of backdoor make cannabis shops illegal. We we had a window for saying we if we wanted to opt out of that. We did not opt out of it. So state law precludes us from using zoning to essentially eliminate those as as a as a reasonable in reasonable ways. So I think at this point there's a question of I I think we actually need some data from from the administration to to let's prove the fact that we're not actually making them functionally illegal. Um, so I think there's an opportunity there for uh some some dialogue with the with the administration. Um, and I think and I think absent of that, I think we should that that the board should not recommend those those changes. Um, and finally, just a very small thing with section five dealing with the materials for fences. Um I would just making a very tiny note that um live fences, living fences are a widely accepted, widely uh revered form of fencing that doesn't have explicit protection um in that language. And I think that that would be uh I think that would be a shame to to not have that explicit protection within that within that language. Um so I would either recommend changing that that

language or recommending no change. And that's all. Thank you. Thank you. [clears throat] Is there anyone else who'd like to comment? Okay, then we'll close the public hearing. Um board, uh I don't think we're in a position to discuss this. Is there a motion to table it? I make a motion that we table. Second. I second. Discussion. All in favor say I. To which date? Pardon me. To which date? Do we table this to till the next meeting? To the next meeting

February whenever uh and you concur with that second. So motion made and seconded to uh table this to the next meeting. Um any discussion? All in favor say I. Post say no. And the motion carries unanimously. We'll go to the regular agenda. 20250038 15 to 25th Street.

Does everything work for you? It's got a shimmer.

Yeah, you should be able to [clears throat] Good evening. Ryan Regome, landscape architect with the Environmental Design Partnership. Um, I'm here with uh Dean Marada and Sean Donnelly out in the audience. Uh, the applicants for the project. Um, just to refresh everybody's memory, I know this has been in front of the board a bunch of times now. Uh, it's the former Uncle Sam's parking garage. It's located between Third and Fourth Street, just south of the Best Western Hotel and just north of Bolton Street. Um, it's in the DMU zone. Uh, also in the downtown 2 district. Uh, it's a proposed five-story building, 193 units, 236 parking spaces, which matches the number of bedrooms that are going to be proposed. It's a site plan. Um there's we're going to need to do or or I'm sorry, there's 158 standard parking spaces and we got 78 compact parking spaces. We're proposing the long-term bike storage uh inside and we got short-term bike storage on the outside along Colton Street. We're going to have to consolidate all the lots. Uh, and we did submit a lot line adjustment map last time, uh, I think back in late December for everybody to see. Um, we have

our main attraction obviously is the second story which is the uh amenity space area where there's going to be walking paths connections to connections to some of the units on that floor, grill areas, pickleball courts, and community gardens. And we have come up with a concept that we wanted to show the board here tonight. And this is it. I'm just going to roll through what what else I have in my notes. Uh and then we can come back to this if you'd like. Um we have to submit which we did to the ZBA for a um uh area variance for the building setback along uh Museum Place. Yeah. Um we're currently the uh the the uh existing building setbacks are 0 to 10 feet and obviously because we have to put in the uh the parking and the parallel parking and the drive aisle, it pushes it back further. Um well, I'm finding out today that we also have to do a parking variance as well because they're considering that now a front yard setback. Um so we're going to submit to the board for that. hopefully get that taken care of in February.

Just want to clear the record. The uh the approach to the parking setback was based on a front side setback. That's considering the parcel to be a corner walk with a right of way to the north. I have to defer to corporation council as to whether or not this project is subject to that front side setback or just a side setback which would determine whether or not a variance is required. Okay. I got an email today at 437 said it's now a front. The front of this property would be considered fourth street. It's a fourth street. I [clears throat] got an email at 437 from Angelina. Okay. Said it was a front yard on Museum Place. So I will I I will address that with

Thank you. [laughter] I'm confused. So no problem. Sorry. Um so yeah, again we were last here in December. Uh we're hoping to get the site plan deemed complete tonight here. Uh possibly talk maybe some seeker and uh hopefully set the public hearing very soon. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Any questions? Um, [clears throat] I know I asked this question the first time you were here, but I find it very um, what's the word I want to use? I think you should have a person with an office in your building to take care of this building. you have 193 residential units and you don't feel that you need somebody in that building to answer calls or not just an outside call, but somebody that's physically there in an office.

I can't speak for them, but I was just in Florida myself. My son is in the community just like this and they don't have anybody either. They actually have to go online or call somebody. agree with that.

Is there a sewer sewer capacity issue here, Chris? Yeah, I mean they're in the combined sewer district. They've been reviewed under the model. We've submitted some feedback, had some back and forth. Where where does that stand in the progression of the sewer offset project or analysis? What I what I know is we're still looking to find uh where the disconnect's got to be where we disconnect it. [clears throat] We're still looking for that information. In what sense specifically

for to disconnect? you know where we would disconnect between the sewer and the storm.

Yeah. So I I believe I I laid out two different options to your team. CDM Smith also weighed in and you know I can't off of memory I forget which regulator was the more beneficial offset from but that was outlined and then from that point the burden would be on the developer and their engineer to develop an offset project that meets DC's requirements essentially reduce the amount of combined sewage below pre-existing levels So, there quite a quite a few uh notes from staff and and staff recommendations. A lot of these I think you've seen before. [clears throat] Do you have any issue with any of those? I know some of them you still trying to work out, I think, but any of those that look like dealillers for you? So, just going through the latest staff recommendations. Um,

you don't have to address those all tonight. No, I mean pops out. No, we've been we we had a phone call today with Eric. Uh we feel like we're very very close to uh getting everything addressed at this point. [clears throat] We don't have really any any real objections. What's the status um on the EV parking and charging situation? The Troy uh Fire Department uh at our last meeting, you know, had uh spoken to the fact that there were concerns Um and but the state of New York says that we need x number of chargers. We have no problem putting them in if putting them in. Yeah.

Um have you spoken to the Troy Fire Department at all? We have not spoken with them again, but we know obviously it's a requirement by the state, right? So if we have to [clears throat] come in, we just didn't want to step on his toes and Sure. You know, so that's we we we could do either obviously, but if they're required, they're required. Yeah. I think that, you know, during our conversation with the TFD, uh, at the last meeting was that they were more concerned with the batteries than the charging. And, you know, if that was the case, I I would assume now you're looking to go through and and comply with the state uh, needs for charging, right? Correct. Is that what we're doing?

Okay. Are they on the site plan yet? Um, I don't think we show them on the current site plan, but they would be along the wall along the closest part of the outside. So, okay. Hopefully. Thank you. We leave some of that. Thanks. So, you had a meeting with the historic review committee recently, did you? There was a meeting last week. Did you participate? I did not participate. Do you know any issues that I don't know. Should be talking about. Okay. Um, well, I think it's something that we probably gonna talk about before we face here, but is there any other questions for the

No, no, I don't think we're ready to make this final. We're going to So, uh, I think staff has indicated that, uh, we can determine that the application is complete at this stage. Is there any do we really want to variances have variances to get yet? Yeah, I think there's just too many things outstanding for us to make this application complete.

We'll see. Let's see if there's any member of the public wants to speak. I don't think a hearing is required, but we'll give the public an opportunity to comment. might be guide you a little bit. So, is there anybody who wants to speak on this application? There's been plenty of opportunities already and there'll be more. So, anyone? Okay. Oh, yes. Come on. All right. Come forward, please. Good evening. Uh my name is Michael Koka. Uh my partners and I own uh 14th Street, the Best Western, uh 44th Street, the Franklin Plaza Ballroom, and uh 500 Federal, an office building. Um we kind of border this property quite a bit. Uh so obviously we're very concerned about our future. Uh we actually had plans to buy that property uh and uh incorporate it with uh some kind of a development and some parking for us. But when we heard the magnitude of this property uh we backed away because we felt that this was a better fit [clears throat] uh for that space than it just having a parking lot or uh open spaces. So, uh, that being said, you know, we understand in today's world, everybody always can't be happy. You know, uh, that's just the way things are. But we have to be realistic and, you know, we don't want another, uh, empty hole sitting there for 10 more years. Uh, this is the prime or maybe the first or second most prime piece of property in downtown. So, you know, we just want to say being such a large presence in that area that uh

we're uh behind this 100% and uh look forward to uh uh a great project. Um I've known Rody all my life. Um this guy can write the check. He does things right. Uh like we try to do. I mean, we try to maintain our properties. Uh uh we were always concerned with the neighborhood and the presence and the look of everything trying to keep Troy uh going in the right direction. So we just want to say that uh we're behind this 100%. Michael, I I have a question for you about the the easement. You guys are all together on the same page. Is the easement done that you need? Uh I don't know if it's done. Yes. Yes.

Okay. Yeah. No, we uh Rody was great with us and we were great with him. And so you're all good with the Eastman just hasn't been and parking and Yeah. So uh uh so yeah, we have no issues at this time. Everything on Museum Place as they present you're good with. Yes. Okay. Y we're more excited about this than the previous situation with CDTA and all that. So that was scaring us because of the buses running and the noise and the hotel. I mean, this seems to be a a much better fit for us. So, we're excited. Thank you. Thank you, [clears throat] Michael. Thank you.

Is there anyone else who'd like to speak? Yes, sir.

Hi, all again. Uh, just real quick, I think I've also mentioned about, you know, not addressing the prior issues. There's talk about underground parking. it. This is structure parking. So, I don't know why that was sort of dismissed in prior conversations. So, the the section um I think it's uh 28515G1B [clears throat] um still applies. uh this section 71 in the comprehensive plan, the parking uh section in the framework and guidelines that talk about the structured parking um being located interior uh you know structured parking will occur on east west streets only. All of those things still apply. Um and then finally, um in that same going back to the the uh zoning law in that same section 4F with the downtown, um one or two intensity zone talks about the um parking structure being designed so that frontage adjacent to the public street has a minimum floor to ceiling height of 12 feet, minimum bay depth of 20 ft in order to accommodate possible conversion to commercial and whatnot into in the future. Um, and I it's just not clear that that's what is being we've heard claim of it, but there's it's just not clear that it is that's actually what's happened. Um, so just a suggestion that any sort of movement on this could be uh conditioned with with confirmation that that's that's actually true uh from like from an engineer's perspective. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else? Okay. Thank you. Uh so open it up to further board discussion. Uh no interest in uh determining completeness at this time. No. Um I would just say that if you're not going to determine the application complete this evening to articulate what it is that you need in order to see it. Yeah. Can we go through it because we tried to submit everything you guys asked for. I'm sorry I couldn't hear you. I said, "Can we go through what we don't [clears throat] think would be complete?" Yeah, we're we're gonna do that right now. Is there any anything that

Yeah, I think that uh the outcome of your meetings with the HRC uh do we have any anything that could represent uh their comments at this point? Um I have the latest what we submitted um back in late December. Do do you have any response from the HRC?

Yeah. Come on up to the mic, please.

My name is Dean Bar, director of [snorts] operations for RJ Benny. We were sent an email from U. Will said that we weren't even talking about this today. we were just moving forward to get completion and talk about seeker. So we're not prepared to talk about that because we wanted to talk forward more with uh the departments and we wanted to talk to engineering about what's really pertinent because we found several conflicts with what they had wanted us to look at and what zoning says. So in retrospect, we should have went there first because what we corrected already for to to accept zoning to accept us they have issues with. So there's going to be some give and take there which we're willing to work out with them and they were very good about it. So we said there's been uh conversation with our architect on but the letter the email that we have and we have a copy of it here says we're not talking about it today. We're going to move forward for completion. And quite frankly I don't know why we're not at completion. The only thing I think you guys are talking about is the fire department, which we have no bearing. We can't tell the fire department what to do and we can't tell the state what to do. You guys need to tell us what to do and then we'll comply. The other thing with the sewer, we got time to work that out so we can move forward. I don't know of any other issues that we really have. So, that's what I'm here for. So, that's where we are with that.

All right. Yeah. Our general thought is that application completeness is more the you know absence of a document that's required to make secret determination or in order to move forward with the hearing. It doesn't mean that elements cannot change prior to a hearing. But also having said that, the planning board needs to come up with a game plan of how to address these HRC comments which you know appear to deviate from the architectural guidelines that have already been discussed in previous meetings.

Okay. But I understand that HRC can override zoning requirements. There's an exception I believe on the architectural guidelines for if it's in a historic district, right? Planning board's decision essentially to to seek and make a determination of approval based on HRC's recommendations. you still have the ultimate authority, I believe.

Um, can Mr. Maples brought up an interesting point just before you got back on the mic. I was wondering if if there was are we were we going to address what he was talking about um about the uh the height and the setback um and those how it fits in the comprehensive plan. Um I really don't know what he's talking about because that's ground level parking. That's not below grade parking. That is the first that is ground level street parking. We're not below grade,

but it says below grade. It's very It's very It's very Can you please uh address the board? Use the mic. Yes, that's our take on it. There's people out there who are very interested in what's being said and they can't hear you.

Understood. So that's our take on it. That's to in our opinion that's great that's grade level parking. It's not in the ground. So that's for you to determine whether it is or not, but it's obvious by looking at the drawings. Um as far as the staff recommendations from the uh planning department, where are you on on the list that you have right now? I mean, how do you feel um you've made progress on those items? Is there anything outstanding that it would uh I think everything's affect our

submitted. I mean, Eric had mentioned to us today that we have to have this the stamp survey pl uh plats signed, which we can do probably tomorrow. We didn't know that we had to actually get those actually signed by a a a surveyor at this point. We figured that could be ready for final. Yeah. Your agreements would have to go to council, but they're in process. Are they with the council? Yes, they are. as far as I know. Yep. Um, so the other things that are missing on your site plan, uh, checklist, how do you feel about all those?

Good. We, like I said, we have the, uh, we have the, this is our concept for the uh, second level for the terrace as far as uh, plants and stuff go and the walking path and what the the green space is going to look like. Um, I know that you guys wanted to look at that last time. Um, we'd like to ultimately leave it up to the the property manager to make the final call on some of this stuff, but this is what our thought was. Um, how about your communications with the city engineer? Uh, do you have uh some agreement, Chris, with uh the regards to escrow?

We set up an escrow for the sewer review. I have not reached out to them regarding further thirdparty review. There's something that you guys would like to see a third party review on. You can certainly recommend that. How do you feel about it? I think I have additional questions on our traffic demand management plan. I would like to see more information on the actual traffic, you know, data and possible congestion and an explanation of if the circulation path has is, you know, the most beneficial layout essentially.

So, do you think that you can do this inhouse or are they going you're going to require a third party review? I think if the response is sufficient, I wouldn't require a third party review.

Thanks. I want to speak if I may to the question of application completeness. You know, it was previously explained to me from her planning land use attorney that applications could be submitted and for the biologists out there maybe they might consider it, you know, a DNA strand to an RNA strand. Essentially, you've got foundational documents that give you an indication of what you're reviewing. And the like the the smaller components of that document may be adjusted, altered, changed, added, removed, or whatnot. But, you know, when when we review an application for its completeness, we're looking for those foundational pieces. you know, the application, the civic set of documents, complete streets or transportation demand management plan, um, long form. So, the planning department reviewed this with the, you know, with the knowledge that a lot of that stuff has been submitted. If you were to ask or delay for the application's completeness, I would just really like um ask that you articulate with specificity what it is that you need to see provided for in in excess of what has already been submitted, which we

I I say no. Motion carries unanimously. Thank you. Uh now do we consider uh seeker? So I think uh like to confirm that this is a type one seeker project. I'd like to make that motion. Second. Second. I did second. I'm sorry. Discussion. All in favor? I opposed. Motion carries unanimously. Uh I think one last issue here. Well, sorry. Was the last motion just for type one or for you making a declaration or it was just for type one?

I believe the motion has already been made. If you recall the last that we did uh the last action that we made for Seeker was um that I believe the motion for a type one was already motioned. Uh we sent out notifications for this board's intent to act as lead agency and we received two comments um but no nobody objected to this board declaring itself as lead agency. So we're good. Sure. Essentially, you can make a declaration if you feel comfortable. Yeah.

So, we we could uh declare a negative declaration. Um I'd like to make that motion to declare have a negative declaration or see it seeker. Second. I'll second discussion. All in favor? I opposed. Motion carries unanimously. I think the last thing would be do you want to act on uh do we have to make a motion for a subcommittee to meet with uh yes I think that's one thing we want to discuss we need to set a hearing

so I guess first issue would be are we choosing board members to meet with the applicant and the HRC yeah well I think we uh we can either designate them or we can ask for volunters Do we have to do that in this meeting? We don't have to, but if they want to move it forward, we should probably. So, uh, we have one volunteer. I I I'd be willing to do that, too, I think. Unless somebody else has a burning desire to do it. [laughter] You have quite a bit of expertise in this, be better at that. Yeah, I I would do it. Is that all right with everyone?

Yeah. So we'll just designate you as our representatives to that committee. Okay. And the Yeah, we just like to speed it up, move it along. Yeah. I mean, if you you know, you just arrange a sit down with us and the HRC and hammer out the details. Well, I I think appropriately it would be to start with you guys and HRC um and then bring the applicants in as needed um so that you understand where HRC's because they they do they're a body that acts on your behalf. Mhm.

So understanding what their concerns are, you know, um would be appropriate and then once you guys sort of get to a point, you can have that discussion with is like bringing in the applicant as quickly as we could to to that. So maybe if we could, you know, get with the HRC as soon as possible and then notify you as to

we'll be there. Somebody will be there. Yeah, I was at the HRC meeting. I think it went very well. I think there was a lot of things that they had agreed to that HRC had [clears throat] suggested um making this fitting into the historic district better than the more modern uh building that's there now. So, um I think uh I think we could all be on the same same page and get something done as soon as possible. [clears throat] is so this subcommittee right is it just going to report back to the main board is it going to make decisions is is it going to offer recommendations to to the board

so my two members I know it's an issue I I I would suggest that we just ask uh that these two people volunteer to sit in on these meetings it's not an official subcommittee of the planning board that doesn't become a governmental body would subject to all of those rules. So I think it would be better if you're willing just to act it be basically as individuals but you can report back to us your thoughts and what you learn at these meetings and and you would have no even if you were an official body you would have no authority to take any action. So I think uh if it would be a better way to proceed if you're agreeable to that.

Okay. So, you want Jim and I to meet with HRC, come up with listen to what they say suggestions and then uh bring in Valente, bring back to us some feedback. We also don't need to I mean we I'm sure I think Will's here. Yeah. Um we could probably facilitate a meeting with you folks and the HRC committee. That'd be appreciated. uh far far sooner than their next meeting. Yeah, for sure. As soon as possible. The subcommittee doesn't you know it's not restricted to the the the meeting uh the monthly meetings, right? So, okay. Anything further on this?

So, we Excuse me. So, we would report back to our planning board before we included Valentes or No, meet with whoever you want. Whoever I think that's up to you. I mean quite frighten architect being in the room could be very valuable to making those decision decisions. Okay. The the in fairness to the applicant though it's like we need a manner of disseminating what the results which is why it would be helpful to have an architect or a member of the applicant there so they have a clear understanding of what you're looking for when you come back here. Yeah. how to design their building accordingly.

Sort of like a working session to eliminate any issues that could come before the public at our next meeting. Yeah. Um and he was there when we had our HRC when they had the HRC meeting. The architect was there and everything looked like it was going very well with everybody involved. Is this something you could set up or do do we uh Yeah, I would I would probably encourage you guys to reach out to Will. you can kind of coordinate between uh the HRC body and you guys and then you could just notify us when they're ready. You want us to set up the meeting? No, reach out to Will. Uh Will will work with HRC's availability. Okay.

And um and then we'll start basically with the planning board subcommittee and the HRC. And I I presume to Chris's point that the AR, you know, the architect will want to be involved at some point in the discussions to be able to hash the rest of it out. Okay, sounds good. Okay. All right. Next item. Thank you, sir. Hey, thank you. Next item. 2024003 60 113 Street. Yeah. Do you

Yeah, I mean just to say it. So the application ple just determined. So hearing could be scheduled. that what's the language you use in this situation? I would probably I would probably schedule a hearing that deadline submission for February is on Monday with respect to time in that regard. I [clears throat] I would consider a hearing as early as March. You want to schedule a hearing on this project for the next meeting? I mean, is it right for them? You could schedule the hearing if they need to to table that. Then

if we don't schedule the hearing, it means we're pushing back another month. If we schedule the hearing and we're not ready, yeah, there's no harm, no foul. I'm all for that. So, I'd like to make a motion to schedule a hearing on uh PLPB 20250038 uh for the next meeting in February, which is I don't have the date. 10th is uh [snorts] it's the 17th of February. February 17th. That's February. But then you're asking for March.

We're just saying when the is [clears throat] ready March 17th. Uh also the 17th for March. So yeah, I'd like to schedule the hearing for February. uh 17th and um so if we can make that motion February February yeah so I mean if if they're not prepared we can always table it until March but if we schedule it for March we're we're pushing it out two more months is there a reason it won't fit do you plan to meet I mean I don't know how quickly we can facilitate a meeting with HRC prior to Monday.

And what's the what is the significance of Monday? The deadline for February. Well, you can schedule it for February and have your meeting after. Why would you say when the applicant is ready? Didn't we use that language before? I don't know. I'd have to defer to corporation council. So, their architect their architectural plans will have to be agreed upon before Monday to have it be a hearing on in February.

Yeah. Don't we just have to notify the public like two weeks in advance? Notify them of the hearing. So, all right. Um, and all the materials you guys just, you know, if you guys want to schedule it, then we'll schedule. We'll we'll we'll work with the February and we can we can delay it in February if that's how it presents itself which it very well may your motion Mr. Scoly. Yeah. I'd like to u make a motion to schedule a hearing on this project for February 17th. I'll second discussion. All in favor say I. I. Post say no. So the motion carries unanimously. Okay, thank you.

Okay, you're making progress. All right, now back to 2024003. Thanks.

Good evening, chair, members of the board. See you again. Uh, my name is Brian Cyperly with Varity Engineering. We represent the owner and the applicant at 6113th Street in North Troy. That's Energy Catalyst Technologies. Uh just a a little bit of a rewind. Uh we were here to see this board in December. We um introduced the project uh fielded some questions. Uh the board made a secret determination as lead agency uh deemed the project complete. Uh further review from this board uh could not be conducted as the project needed a number of area variances. Uh we did appear at the zoning board of appeals at the January 7th meeting. the project received all five variances that it applied for. Uh thus allowing us to come back to you all and advance uh this planning review. Um so again, that's kind of where we were uh before. We are in receipt of uh the most recent staff memo. Um question got asked the last time. Um I I'll kind of jump to the answer this time. there's nothing uh that remains in the staff recommendations that the applicant wouldn't strongly consider or just uh outright implement. Uh so we don't really view any of the remaining staff comments as any uh as you put it any project pillars or any reasons to uh change the project that's before the board. Um I know the public hearing is still open, so I can talk a little bit about the project or just turn it back over to you all for any questions or comments at this time. Y

um I just want to clear the record actually. Um your staff report says that this is a hearing. So a hearing has not yet been scheduled and that would be something of a motion that needs to be made tonight for next month.

This is not your application. We did the application completeness. uh we declared it to be an unlisted action. Seeker determination was not made nor was there a scheduling of a hearing. This was understood between the applicant and city engineer as he made that statement last month for this. So tonight you may entertain a motion to determine seeker. This is not tit. It's unlisted actually. Yeah, it's unlisted. Believe it's unlisted.

It's unlisted. Yeah, this was an unlisted action.

So, I can make a motion that we um under seeker as an unlisted. That's already done. Or do I have to do two? Um you declared it unlisted last time. Yeah. Okay. So you you can you can issue a determination and schedule the hearing if you wish to. You can go through the special use findings of facts as well. Special use permit findings of facts as well.

Okay. I think I would like to do it all tonight given their I would like to do a determination for a permanent SUP schedule hearing and uh clarify the status today. Is this a is this a hearing or not a hearing today? A hearing was not scheduled for today. All right. [clears throat] So we have secret issue and scheduling over here. So we actually did declare it unlisted unlisted.

Um and then we declared the application complete. It looks like we did not uh schedule a hearing. I believe that may have been due to the applicant's need for variances which they had since gone to the zoning board and received. Right. Right. So Uh, let's see. Um, well, we we could declare the declar duration of the special use permit tonight and schedule a hearing for the next meeting. Yes. Yes.

I think you should probably before you do the duration of your special use permit, go through the findings of facts and you want you want to ask those questions on the record. So the applicant can provide you those answers and and then we can successfully um issue them. I had the questions from last you could do this tonight or you can do this at the hearing. So you're unprepared to ask them. I don't question.

I had them from last month that he gave them to me. By the way, we can schedule a hearing. So, I'd like to make a motion to schedule a hearing for the this project on the February 17th date. February 17th. Yes. Is there a second? I second that. Second. Two seconds. Uh discussion. All in favor schedule the hearing for February 17th. I I opposed. The motion carries unanimously. What other piece of business can we do?

Okay. I do not have You could issue a secret determination. Um I think we already did that. No, you didn't. All you did all you guys motioned in the previous meeting was for application completeness and the determination that this was an unlisted action under Seeker. So seek a motion like to make a motion that uh notify this as a a negative declaration their secret. Second discussion. All in favor say I. I. I. Oppose say no. And motion carries unanimously.

We're down to the duration of the special use. Can we just So, we have to read all of this.

All of this that you had outlined for last month for me, right? and we decided not to do it last.

Okay. Okay. So, section section E of the special use permit criteria um review of a special use permit application by the planning commission selling shall include but not be limited to the following criteria. One, the consistency and compatibility of the proposed use with the purposes of this chapter and the requirements of the use district and development intensity zone in which it is located. Number two, the consistency and compatibility of the proposed use with the goals and recommendations of the city of Troy comprehensive plan, complete streets ordinance, and other approved city plans and programs. Number three, the impact on the nature and character of the surrounding neighborhood, natural environment, historic district, or corridor in which it is located. Number four, the impact on the site and its surroundings. Considering environmental, social and economic impacts of traffic, noise, dust, odors, release of harmful substances, solid waste disposal, glare, or any other nuisances. Number five, restrictions or conditions on design of structures or operation of the use, including hours of operation necessary to ensure compatibility with the surrounding uses or to protect the natural resources of the city. Number six, the adequacy and accessibility of essential public facilities and services such as streets, parking spaces, police and fire protection, drainage structures, refuge disposal, water and sewer and schools. Number seven, the impact of the proposed use on traffic

congestion, impairment of pedestrian safety, or overload of existing streets considering their current width, surfacing, and condition, and any of any improvements proposed to be made by the applicant. Number eight, compatibility of the proposed use with the city's historic preservation guidelines and the impact on adjacent historic resources as formally recognized by the city's historic district and the New York State and federal registers of historic places. I have to keep going. Is this So we have to consider those eight questions.

Eight questions. I just read them all. Yep. So we have to consider those criteria in making a determination with respect to the duration [clears throat and cough] of special use permit. Correct. Yes. So in making your deterine if we have a motion uh we will use that criteria in determining your vote on the motion. Okay. [clears throat] I have read their proposal. I think it's a great proposal. I think it's great for Lancingberg and the area. Uh, I would make a motion that we allow them a special use per permit to be a permanent one. Do you want to do solicit public uh input prior to making sure

a motion? [snorts] Um Brian just on we had talked offline um but I'll bring it up now related to number seven about the uh the width of the alley and the fact that it might see you know primarily tractor trailer large vehicle traffic from this site and the idea that our city standard detail may not be adequate to you know to have a pavement you know basically a standard duty pavement section where really that should be a heavy duty section to support the truck traffic. Has there been any um discussion with the client on that request by the city?

Yes, I we we've discussed that. Um since then, we've got our hands on the survey CAD file. Um, and I think if we could share that and discuss that offline, there happens to be a number of things, encroachments in the alley, telephone polls, things like that that we should take a look at what should come before what from a chronology perspective. Um, is that something that we could take offline and look at the survey in more depth of what's in that right away? Yeah, [clears throat] there's garages. We're going to start right away. I just heard that as part of this requirement for notify the board that we've been discussing it. Sure. Okay.

Um, so is there anybody who wants to [snorts] before we vote on Well, you might want to give the applicant an opportunity to respond to any of those eight points that you mentioned if they if they feel they're ready to do so. You did [clears throat] submit uh responses to those eight questions. Um, so whether it's up, you know, up to you if you want to put any of that on the record or um, you feel like

I I'll ask the board. So the the the supplement or the special use permit addendum that we submitted where those eight questions are are bulleted and justifications are um, elaborated for each one of those is on the record. you know, generally whether we take the time at at the pulpit tonight. Um, I guess I'll take a reverse poll if I'm allowed to. Is there any board members who didn't get a chance to read it or have any questions about the contents of that? And maybe we would just go over those specific items and then if not, I would assume that all board members had a chance to read it and uh don't take any um issues with with the justifications in there. Is that fair, Chair?

Yes. Word members, any any issue? No, I I had no issues on the responses. Thank you. Reading it. So, Chris, were you indicating we should have public comment? I think so. It's up to you, but keep keep in mind you you will be having a hearing where public comment will be mandatory. So, yes. All right. So, um, you can, uh, you can step aside there for a minute. We'll see if any member of the public, there will be an opportunity for a formal public hearing on February 17th, but is there anyone who feels compelled to comment at this time? Is there anybody on on Zoom? So, now we'll back Pardon me. Is there anybody on Zoom?

No, there's nobody on Zoom. Okay. All right. So, then we'll go back to your your motion. So, I would like to make a motion uh for PLPC 2024003. Um I would like to make their u special use permit permanent. Second. Second. Motion made and seconded. Uh discussion on the motion. All in favor say I. I. Post say no. The motion carries unanimously. Okay. See you in a month. Thank you all. Enjoy your evening. Thank you. You, too. Thanks, Eric.

All right. So, folks, um I was hoping we'd get a little further than this. I have an unavoidable obligation I have to attend to now. So, I'm going to ask the vice chair if she will take over. And I'm sorry I have to uh have to leave. And uh we still have a glad chair. Whatever. Stay right there. There's a symbol of authority. All right. [cough and clears throat]

We ready? The next item on our agenda tonight is PLPB 20250063 120 Husk Street, the Crunch Fitness.

Uh name's Nick Herman with Crunch Fitness. I know uh I believe last meeting Matt Smith was here uh with Crunch Fitness as well. There were [clears throat] a number of different items that had come up. I do believe everything has been submitted for the site plan, landscape plan and the items comments have been addressed. Um I should state for the record planning department received an updated site plan this morning. That is not something I can disseminate to the board the day of a meeting. Okay. So that that has yet to be reviewed. Okay.

Okay. I have um do you want him to talk first or can I ask questions? Okay. Um I have questions now. You are going to be a tenant. You will be leasing this building. Yes. What I represent the tenant. Jeff here represents the the landlord. Okay. So if they are leasing this building, yes,

why would they have to make any when Jim Lance sent in all those pictures on the sidewalk and the parking, would they be required to make those changes or would uh The plaza belongs to the owner. And are you the owner? Am I Did I speak with you or did I speak with the owner? Raymond, I believe. Yeah, I believe you've been speaking with Raymond. This is Jeff on behalf of the owner.

Okay. All right. Usually, we have an authorization to act as agent form that kind of delineates like who can represent the owner for these types of things. Understood. I don't know that we have a documented relationship that you have on behalf of the owner tonight. I Yeah, I am the owner also. Can you please state this for the record then? Yeah. Um, my name is Jeff. Yeah. Your first and last name and your relationship to the to the parcel. Yeah. So, first name Jeff, last name right into the microphone, please. First name Jeff, last name J I A N G. And I'm part owner. So,

okay. So in, you know, in making and outfitting a parcel, the applicant is the tenant of the space. The owner still has jurisdiction over the parcel. So if if it's a civil disagree, it's it's a civil agreement between the tenant and the owner. If the owner is going to be updating the site or if they feel that the tenant needs to update the site, it's kind of where where those two stand in terms of operating on the site. So it's not something that we would get into here, but as this prop property and this proposal is subject to site plan review because the space I think it's over 30,000 square feet. Mhm. 30. Correct. Yeah.

Yeah. So that triggers site plan review. Now if the owner says, "I want the tenant to fix this up." That's that's on the owner, you know, and the tenants civil agreement. Suffice to say that your jurisdiction is for the entire parcel.

Explain that to me. If if I might add, I mean, everything that has been asked in terms of again the last previous meeting, the owner has agreed to and has been in review of uh again those comments and the feedback, whether it's the bike rack, landscaping, sidewalk repair, curb repair. The landlord has agreed to do such. So, it's it's not something that there's a disagreement between tenant and landlord right now. Yes, we do agree to all of that. We do agree to all of that. Yes. So, do you

Hey guys, uh if I could if I could just chime in real quick. This is Chris Cashman with JJ Welch Company. The owner of the property. We're going to be the GC for the crunch doing the fit out. Um and we've also been the the landlord uh the owner of the parcel has already reached out to us and asked us to price uh the items that you guys have requested. So, as far as I know, everything that has been requested um is on on those drawings and will be taken care of. Obviously, we can't take care of the landscape items until the spring, but um the rest of that stuff will will happen while we're out there and and happen in conjunction with the fit out of the Crunch Fitness itself.

Uh thanks, Chris. You know, it would it would be of some degree of assistance if we understood what that owner's list of of items he was prepared to to um to update. Well, you've you've requested them all, so you have them, right? Yes, it it should be part of that. It was sent in. So, I believe can you guys articulate for the record what it is the owner is going to update? I've heard

just I'm sorry, but just off the cuff, I would say there was potholes at the entrance that needed to be addressed. Uh there was some some uh some striping at the entrance that needed to be redone there. On that updated one, there's a couple islands that are going to get trees. Now, there was a light on one of the buildings. It was a dark area of the parking lot. They're going to put a light on there. Um, the other guy that's been uh dealing with some of this stuff, maybe he could fill in any gaps would be Ahmed. He also works for JJ Welch. Um, Ahmed, if there's any other ones that you can think of off the top of your head,

uh, aside from lines, uh, line striping, uh, bike rack, there's the missing dumpster locations as well. Um, and I think Co, uh, Chris covered them all. Did you guys have a chance to see uh did you guys have a chance to talk with Jim Lance and what he observed or did you see the photographs that were that were sent in from Mr. Lance? Yes. Because that list that you just articulated did not mention the concerns of Mr. Lance. I believe the only thing that he had a concern or a code compliant question on was the roof which uh the landlord had roofers out there and we sent pictures in of the repairs.

There was no mention of curbs or sidewalks. That's what I just mentioned earlier when I said the potholes in the front and the the curbs. Maybe I didn't, but I was thinking it. [laughter] Uh but yes, all of that stuff I believe is on the site the site plan that was submitted that will get repaired. So all of that stuff will will get taken care of. Oh, sorry. Okay. show. Not

so it says on the staff recommendations that all the all the sidewalks within the parcel along storefronts um oh are in good repair and those damaged are replaced. Um so it's not all the sidewalks and all the storefronts. It's just basically a portion portion of it. Um, ensure all curbs throughout the parial are in good repair and are at least four to six inches above grade. Replace [snorts] any other damage that are damaged beyond repair. Um, pave and strike the entire parking lot. Yep. Yes.

Um, this includes the entrance uh where a single sewer collects much of the storm water. Consult city PE to ensure adequate drainage. um provide new striping for drive aisles and lanes throughout the site. So everything that's on the staff recommendation, you have a plan moving forward. We do. Yes. Okay. Yes. And again, to Chris Cashman's point, JJ Welch is going to be contracting to do that. They're they're our contractor. Yeah. But they're going to be working with the landlord again to handle those as well.

What is your what is your target date for opening? Uh well it's based on when we start but about 120 days out from whenever we are approved to start. So if we're approved say February 1st 120 days from then would be when we would look for occupancy. So are you planning on move moving in 120 days or when all the work is done? Yes. Essentially once once we have occupancy we move in. Yeah. Okay. And all the work will be contingent work contingent on the work being performed.

Yes, it's understood I believe within that that staff recommendation that we are not going to be granted occupancy until all that work is completed. Yeah. And it it will be in parallel to Chris's point while we're doing the fit out of the club. Gotcha. Gotcha.

[cough and clears throat] Is this a hearing or no? Yes. Yes. Oh, this is the hearing. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We want All those who approve say I [laughter] Please, please mute your microphone. Chris, thank you. Um, so you'd have to ask. Is there anybody else wants to? No. Yes.

Okay. Um, is anybody in the audience that would like to speak on this project? Okay. Is there anybody on other than Chris on Zoom? Oh, nobody. Okay. So, um, anybody here? Am I like to talk any more about this? I I'd like to make a motion that uh we approve this project contingent on all the work staff recommen uh staff recommendations are completed before they open. I'll second it. Hold on.

It's a big general contingency. That's just the issue. [snorts] Um [clears throat] I don't want to make him come back to another meeting. I mean do you want to give us a date to have all completion? Obviously it would be prior to occupancy anyhow but well you would is there a target? You would want it done as quickly as possible. You want to move in. Correct. Yes. Correct. You're the You're the driving force of your own project. Yep. And I'm sure the owner wants to start collecting. Yes.

So, what do you guys think? Somebody second? Yeah, I'll second your motion. [clears throat] Okay. I'm just thinking of the wording of it.

Yeah. I I mean, there's a number of other items on the staff recommendations that we kind of needed to to address. Now, we did receive a site plan this morning. I I had zero time to look at this. You know, um I don't know what it consists of. There were items missing from your former site plan. Uh islands and such that delineated drive lanes. Um we also we did not understand uh what was existing versus what was proposed in terms of pedestrian [clears throat] safety elements, crosswalks, right? where you propose to replace curbs, you know, whether or not curbs were going to be unilaterally brought up to code. Some of them, if you drive through there today, they're pulverized, right? So, and you can see the tire marks that go through these little islands because the curbs essentially don't even exist anymore. Um and some of the recommendations in here, you know, talk about ensuring that the applicant work with city city staff to delineate where the best uh locations would be for improvements. Um in a general, let's you know, we'll we'll replace it all. I mean, it sounds great. Um, I would also have to defer to Chris though because some of this stuff reflects drainage, you know, and whether or not Chris is comfortable with a conditional approval to go through all these staff recommendations, you know, some of which involve his office, you know, does does have some meaning to it, you know, bears some meaning. A blanket, let's just do it based on the recommendations. Well, um certainly, you know, that is within your right. Um but you'd probably want to maybe just if you're going to get to conditional approvals, I would probably articulate exactly what it is,

right? So that staff, Chris, myself, the building department, they can better, you know, review the the final. So if you guys want to condition an updated site plan, you know, that delineates some of these items that we talked about today. Okay. Um or if you wanted to

specify specifically like the the need for improvement of certain infrastructural parts like curbs or or whatnot, you know, I would just say try to be as specific as you can. I mean this lot is quite large you know so the more specific you are [clears throat] the better a the better the staff are able to assist in the review and therefore guarantee more expedited approval uh to you know their their final inspection for a co. So, um, if I don't know if Chris has anything to add to that or if I'm if I'm not hitting the nail on the head, but, um, I would just say just try to be as specific. If you will condition the approval, then just be as specific as possible, please.

Chris, I have a question about the existing conditions with regard to drainage. Are we adding more impervious? We're taking away impervious if you're doing the islands. Is that correct?

Yeah. I mean there's not a significant change in in in flow storm water flows or okay the um impervious surface. So you know and on that thought I mean I like that it's a good opportunity for improvements and the applicant seems to be responding positively to those improvements. So yeah I I am okay with you can condition it you know for improvements to the asphalt and you know concrete and landscaping site elements as you know approved by me I guess [laughter] city engineer I'll be the lucky I'll be the lucky one

city staff I I would work in conjunction with Chris to go over some of the other det details that we kind of need to get some clarification delineation of especially the site plan elements. We would we would you know I again I have an updated site plan this morning but I have not had a chance to view what's updated on that. So I think we should hold off. What changes did you make to the site plan? He said that you you received an updated plan this morning. What this this would have been from Bowler Engineering. Okay. Correct. I don't know, you know. Do you do you have you been in touch with Karen? Do you do you [clears throat] know what's up? Are are you still on? Amed?

Yes, I am still on. Yes. What was specifically updated with this site plan that was just sent out this morning versus the one that was sent uh last week? Uh

I'm just pulling it up right now. Um okay, give me one sec. Tremendous amount. Um, [clears throat] uh, two, which one is this? 13. I'm sorry. There's just a lot of them going back. Yeah, if you go to that last

the city had called uh and wanted to confirm two landscape islands in front of the proposed crunch fitnesses would remain. Um these were added since we had uh the previous plan on the property. We updated our plan to show these with some of the new plantings. That was the landscape plan though. So the site plan was but the landscape plan is the last thing that was sent in. So it was not the site plan. The landscape plan was separate from that.

No, the site plan included all of the improvements on the site. It was a civil drawing that included all of these things. And the uh the only thing that was missing from the last one that was submitted previously was the addition of uh I believe a couple of trees and maybe some shrubs in an island. So the submitt this morning was in reference to these suggested Yes, correct. Landscape improvements. It didn't have to do with striping or drive aisles or sidewalks or drainage. That was already addressed in prior submitt. So basically it's the same site plan. Yes. It's just you're adding the page that includes landscape. Correct. Yes.

Okay. Eric heard that [clears throat] landscape. They left that alone. This is here's where the landscaping is. So I don't know. characters. They're making improvements to the site. This is, you know, for change of use. I think it's a good thing overall. I think you can condition the improvement.

I don't know if you heard our discussion, but so the submitt uh according to Ben was that uh it was an addition to the site plan and it was the the uh defining the landscaping ideas. So there wasn't a change to drainage, drive a striping, sidewalks in this [clears throat] latest submitt that you got today. Um I don't know if that's a material enough uh change to or addition to um you know uh have us act differently to get them working. You could consider just conditioning the issuance of a CO

right on adequate repair of site elements as determined by code enforcement or something. Maybe we conditioned our approval thusly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I I think staff are okay with a conditional approval on here. Um but subject to uh some of some more finer points of detail such as um you know potentially the side sidewalks and curbs and asphalt surfaces is uh another considerably important one would be pedestrian connectivity and safety.

Sure. And you know I I think also is you know in order for them to get the doors open they're going to have to go through code and code's going to have to inspect their work. Yes. you know, code code will will have to do an inspection of the exterior premise as well, right? [laughter] You guys are on you guys are on a final

feel so inclined, you can make a motion for approval with the condition that a co is not issued until certain. And so to simplify the motion, maybe you know we could instead of you know the staff recommendations kind of put it on the you know completing to their to their site plan to the satisfaction of the city engineer and the code uh department. So city staff pedestrian safety elements. So, what would be the procedure for the owner to meet with the city to go over the issues to make sure that we're that everything is covered in the scope of work?

The provision of an updated site plan that addresses all of their proposed improvements and uh pedestrian safety elements that that would be subject to the review and approval of city staff, namely Chris and myself. Um and if you know if we have to work with the applicant in order to update that then um we will I the applicant has been very cooperative. So uh I don't think that we're very far off. We would just want some of their commitments documented um so that we understand or so that your final inspection uh code officer understands what they're going to be looking for to sign off on.

And on the other hand, they're not saying, "Oh, well, you got to do that and now you got to do that." You know, right once and [clears throat] you can do everything. Yeah. We don't want to be blinded yet over with, you know, I mean to to that point once if if approved tonight and obviously once we start build JJ Welch our builder will be on site again who would be working with the landlord to improve the site. It'd be ideal at that point whoever I don't know who handles it. Jim Lance I'm assuming was an outside independent or no Jim Jim is our senior code inspector.

Okay. So if if say our job site supervisor met with him on site to go over everything specifically in detail, they can move forward and get everything way. Certainly. I think that's a a valid point. Jim, um you know, he's our [clears throat] senior code inspector. He was the one that documented the site with all the pictures that you guys saw. You know, you would probably need to to to ensure that those documented images are are remediated because they could result in a code violation. Yep. I understood. So,

so what are they going to need for the necessary permits and all that for the work they have to do? What what what documents do they have to I would I would submit an updated I would submit an updated site plan for the review for the review and approval city engineer and planning staff. And in in that in that site plan, you know, you're documenting what you're saying you're committing to in the staff recommendations. Understood.

And that would be one document to bind them all for those Lord of the Rings fans. motion. [laughter] [clears throat] Um, so I I'd like to make a motion to approve the product contingent upon the applicant's completion of all the staff recommendations in accordance with the uh code and code department and um the city engineer

and approval on the site on the new additional site plan updated site plan. Oh yes. with the approval of the additional site plan by planning department. I second that. All in favor? I I I motion is passed. Sorry, Chris. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It certainly was a mess. That's pictures.

Yeah, that's that's a sad thing that they're gone. Okay. The next Yeah. Next on our agenda is PLPB 20226001 1016 Madison Avenue.

Good evening. My name is Daniel Hburg with the firmer Hburg and Hzburg. We're consulting engineers and land surveyors. U with me tonight is Floyd White, the owner uh of the site. Um, they have two lots. They would like to make them into four lots so they can put two duplexes on the site. This is the existing site which is vacant which I think you've seen before. Yeah.

And this is two duplexes. So there's going to be four buildings on there. In order to do that, we need some variances. We need a a width variance for the lot, a sideline variance obviously because there's zero sideline where they're joined together. And in addition, um the units are not going to have 720 square feet each as they're as they have them now. Something in excess of 600 square ft. So, we'd like to present that variance to the zoning the board of zoning appeals also. Uh, so those are the three variances we'd like you to consider tonight. Um, be prepared to answer any questions you may have about the site. Uh, but for right now, our goal is to get on to figure out what the board of zoning appeals will approve. Whereabouts on Madison is that

right next to the church at the church. Okay. Yeah. So going west on Madison is just past the church on the left hand side. Yeah. The old church house and then other side of that. Yep. Yep. Y

can you bring those Can you bring those over here? on your computer. I just pulled them up on the screen as well. Dasis of church. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, there it is. Oh, there it is. Thanks, buddy. That's

live in that house right next door. We have not yet considered the uh the urban runoff control plan yet. We will submit that further on in the process. We're aware that we have to submit that to [clears throat] So looks like you you're okay with the area. This this is zoned. Yeah. multifamily residential. Yes. Um, but you need a site variance. We need two air. We need three area variances. We're looking for with one being

one being the width of the lot, one being for the sideline because when they join together, there's zero sideline. The variance for that for both of the lots. And then we're also asking for a third variance which is mentioned in here. You need a minimum unit size of 720 square ft. The way they have them designed now, there's something slightly in excess of 600 square ft like that7 floor 657 square feet. So it's floor I think. Yeah,

it's bas. Yeah, the base it's based upon the first floor area and it's 657 versus 720. So we're asking a variance is like 10% 63 square foot. So they're up and down. So what's you got? 67 50 square feet on the first floor. 657 without the garage on the first floor. Then with the second floor, without the garage, it's uh like 15 total for the whole unit. Right. Right. On top of that.

So, what action you're looking for us tonight is to recommend to the ZVA. Yes. To get us by that step and

I think essentially we're ready to go. So actions that you actions that you may consider this evening are application completeness. Um you can declare the project to be an unlisted project. Uh if you feel you um have sufficient information you may issue a declaration on seeker and you may schedule a hearing. So [cough and clears throat] the if if the applicant has not yet applied to the zoning board of appeals, then they would be um subject to the March 4th zoning board.

So if you were to schedule a hearing, you know, for February, uh which would only give you four days to get us everything that we need. Otherwise, I would I would suggest a hearing for March. I would ask the applicant how they feel about that, you know, but any any approval at that point, if they do have everything they need to by Monday, um that any approval would be conditioned upon their zoning variance. [clears throat] We could make the Monday, but we'll get you. Um so, have you provided an an updated short yet? No, we have not. You have not. So, you're waiting on that,

right? But they did, you know, there's only like a question on that short form. A couple items were sprint. And again, the way that it was uh, you know, instructed to me from our previous land use and zoning attorney was, you know, they have a document that fulfills the criteria of an application. You know, an essential document like the the environmental form, you know, it doesn't have to be perfect.

Okay. right? You can have a question that's off like off, you know, provided they're aware of that and may make their own adjustments to resubmit that form, you know, or um you know, which they have time to between now and their hearing. So, I don't know that I would say that one question should uh you know, um negate their submission. [clears throat] Chris, have you seen a an application for the curb cuts? No, we have not not specifically yet. I mean, I'm sure you can give me details on that. Dan, DPU has to sign off on proposed utilities.

Yeah, I mean we will have to evaluate this for uh sanitary vine sore. [clears throat] So the one thing we can do is might be right at the threshold classify this as unlisted under seeker. So I'd like to make the motion to classify this as an unlisted action under seeker. I second. All those in favor? I so do we Yeah. I guess some guidance as far as the completeness of the application. Eric, um,

it looks like we're missing some things that need to go to third parties here or other places. Uh, the engineering department for the curb cuts, DPU for uh, proposed utilities. So like again we had uh kind of carryover one of the elements carried over from the old application to the new you know code uh we have integral components of a major project and a minor project or a subdivision review right if this application did not have let's say for example the environmental short form that's an integral component you know an application for a curb But that would be something that, you know, could coincide theoretically with their application for a building permit. You know, it's at that stage that this, you know, that that wouldn't that curb cut wouldn't happen without that application going with their building permit application. But, you know, that that isn't an integral planning review ele unless you guys were to, you know, think to yourselves, well, this is a this is a hinging element for this project, right? And if it was of that much importance and you guys didn't have it, then you might with your discretion, you know, entertain how to go forward from that point on. But I don't see I don't see crucial hinging elements of the proposal uh missing. from their application.

I have a question. Is is there a sidewalk in front there? Yes. So you this uh rendering doesn't show the the driveways going across the sidewalk or a curb cut. This is the street. That is a sidewalk. Okay. Right. So [clears throat] have to do the curb cuts. Four curve cuts.

Right now your application so far has identified the exact location of those curve cuts and your your drawings you submitted. Oh, I don't know exactly like tag where where keep in mind also that this is subdivision review and as much as we want to make sure that we have certain crucial information that a survey can provide um you know the not not all of the site plan review should be applied to subdivision review. Right. But we do it we have to make a recommendation to the ZBA. We did give a footprint of it. Okay. You did

footprint of the building should be the exact spot that it's supposed to be straight out.

Yeah, I had seen that someplace. Okay. So, there are plans shows a survey show. [clears throat] [snorts] So, what do you want to do? So I guess the next thing would uh do we need a negative declaration on this?

It's unlisted. We don't need that, right? [snorts] No, unlisted. You still Yeah, it's unlisted. So make a declaration. We don't type two is where you don't need it. Unlisted. Yeah. Um, so the only thing would then be application completeness. Well, you again, you need to make a declaration. Oh, we do need for unlisted. Yes. Yeah. I'd like to make a motion to uh classify this as or declare this a negative declaration under secret. A second. All those in favor? I I

opposed. Motion is passed. Okay. So, and then it's application completeness. Okay. Go ahead. No, Jimster. Jimster. I make [snorts] a motion to declare this application complete. I'll second. All those [clears throat] in favor? I I opposed. Motion is passed.

So, you think you're going to have everything ready so that you could go before the zoning board at their next meeting? We'll get all the missing papers will be uh Eric by Monday for sure. So they're they need to provide the substance for their next for their hearing, their planning board hearing, all of that by Monday. So if they don't do that, then it doesn't matter. We, you know, just move the hearing to another date.

Then you guys would have Yes. I mean, they have to, you know, once once the application's declared complete, they have you have 62 days to approve the project. If you don't do it within 62 days, you have to mutually consent upon re uh extending the review. So outside it would be March anyway would be still be within the 62 days. Yes, I believe so. So I'd like to make a motion to declare um to schedule a hearing on February 17th for uh for final approval. Thank you. I sir. Okay. And the recommendations to the zoning board. You feel that we can work on this motion here? So

okay. So, um, all those contingent on zoning board contingent on Yeah. I mean, you guys will have this back before you before they go back to the zoning board. If you feel that you've seen enough information by, you know, their next hearing or for their hearing to make recommendations, you could do so at that time, too. Right. Okay. Okay. So everybody in favor of making this application complete. I opposed. Motion is carried. That's all we can do. See [clears throat] you February 17th. All right. So don't we have to don't we have to recommend to ZBA what we

you could you have a chance to do that at the next at the hearing since they're not going to be able to go before the ZBA before that hearing. Uh yeah. So they're hearing their their their ZBA uh visit will be March 4th and they're before you February 17th. So I think that would be appropriate to be able to issue referrals or recommendations that the February date. Okay. All right. So, the last PLPB 202600, did you guys actually schedule the hearing for February 17th? Yeah, I think we did.

It was implied. I think Tony kind of misspoken last sentence there, but why why don't we why don't we do one for the record? Okay, let's just do it for the record. Okay. So, I make a motion that we have the hearing on uh 202600001 on February 17th. I second that motion. All those in favor? I oppose. Motion is passed.

Come on, keep me in line. Oh, man. [snorts] Okay. So, our next project is PLPB 2022600210 Spring Avenue. Hello folks. Hi. Looks like can I have your name and

Yes. Uh my name is Dan Morelli with Morelli Design and Construction. I'm here representing Mike Melville and his request for site plan review uh and to introduce the development of 10 Spring Avenue tax number 12.33-4-13 which is currently a vacant lot uh located in a business development district neighborhood 3. Um the scope of our project is to construct a multi-use business park with some permitted uses that include spacings and a couple of offices. Uh the trouble with the lot which we finally solve is that it's narrowly 60t 64t wide by 140 ft deep. I think we've addressed those problems. We've been in concept planning for a little bit over a year now. Uh we've worked with Eric and Angelina to determine what we could do, what was permitted, what we couldn't do, and we think we finally nailed it. Um we submitted additional documentation which is not able to be introduced tonight because it was just recently submitted,

but we're very very close to get a complete application once the once the data is submitted. Um, what I'd like to do with you is quickly review the site plan that we did submit which you have and I'll go through that with you. Uh, we'll address the staff report which I did receive and review. Uh, we'll determine the potential variances. Uh, right now they're listing several that I think we can avoid needing to get and um, we'll take some questions and answers. So basically the lot is a vacant lot right now. There was some concrete structure that's been recently removed and it kind of ascent up the hill towards the back of the property towards the back of the property. And uh the intent is to put a two-tier building on it. Um, and I'll address what Eric and I discussed today, which will help enhance the need for not getting certain variances. Uh, but basically, we've got a singlestory this down. Mattalian, I talk with my hands. I'm sorry. I need them both. Um, the intent is to beautify the site and to put some feasible space on the property. Um, the owners are here tonight. Mike Melville is here with his brother Andrew and I'll bring them up afterwards if you have any questions for them. But basically, we're looking to put two leasable general office spaces in the front of the building, which initially we're showing as singlestory spaces, but to avoid the variance for the twotory space, we may enhance those to twotory spaces, which is just basically going to elevate um the front elevation of the building, which I'll show you in a second. The two

rear spaces are at a different floor elevation. These are at zero. These are going to be at 4 feet just because of the grading situation. We'll use the back foundation wall as a retaining wall, which we do have a survey with some grading now, which I'll show you in a second. I know it's not introduced, but I'll introduce it to you tonight just to look at. Um, we'd love to hear your thoughts and recommendations. But we'll use the back wall, foundation wall of the building as a retaining wall in the back. will carry it across and then down the side of the property to address the lower portion of the driveway and the incline the 24 ft inclined ramp to get up to the upper portion. That's basically so they don't got to excavate so much land that's there. Now, some of it's not excavatable, some of it's dirt, some of it shell, some of it's rock. So, um, the intent is to for the owner to occupy one of the warehouses for his equipment and material storage for his business and rent out the other for some income and potentially occupy one of the leasable spaces up front for his office and lease the other space for some income. We've provided 25 ft of green space buffer in the front with some trees, small street trees, sugar maples, uh the pallet trees. We haven't quite decided on the yet, but we'll have that solidified for next Monday's submission. Uh a masonry [clears throat] monument sign up out front, which we'll get some we have a a a site designer working on that now for the signage. We'll uplight the signage. We'll put some green space here. The intent is to come into the property. There's two parking spaces here, one accessible space. There's two parallel spaces up on top of the hill for the warehouses. Parking is not a major issue

in the zoning district. So, I think the four spaces we've provided will suffice for our need. And certainly the occupants of the warehouse can certainly park their vehicles [clears throat] in a warehouse when they're there. They're not going to be full-time occupants. It'll be come get what you need, go to your job site, do what you got to do. Um, we've got an accessible ramp because I'm at my floor elevation at the lower office is going to be 6 in above grade. So, we've got a little accessible ramp up to a platform into the doors of the office and then these will be at grade back here. Something enhances that Eric and I talked about earlier today to meet the requirement is is striping um a 3- foot wide pedestrian crosswalk from the sidewalk out front to the building and then turning it into a concrete sidewalk as we ascend up the hill. That will shrink the driveway which is 23 feet 3 and 12 in now down to 20 ft which is permissible. certainly wide enough about as wide as this building here, as wide as this room here. And we'll put a gate uh with a rolling we'll put a a 4ft aluminum fence with a rolling gate up on top of the hill to prevent people from sneaking up and behind there. We'll also have our dumpster enclosure back here on top of the hill. We'll line the back of the property with green 5 ft of green space to meet the rear yard setback uh with a row arbor vites and to address the additional green space that's required for impervious surfaces. We can shift these parking spaces out a little bit and connect this with green also. That'll be on a revised site. We've already started the work. We just didn't complete it. We'll complete it this week. We'll get that into Eric on Monday. some of the variances that we're talking about. Um, like the board's opinion on this, uh, sideyard

setback on the east side of the building. Uh, we don't meet the maximum 10 ft. So, we'll get I I think we can get an area of variance for that. I think that'll be granted. The front yard set back of a maximum of 10 ft. I've got 25 ft of green space and I've got another 26 ft of of paved area for parking. We figured we put some parking behind the green space so it's not not right on the road and kind of enhance the front of the site. So pull the building up towards the front of the site doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Doesn't beautify the site at all. Uh so we think the green space is very important in meeting the green space requirement and enhancing the site. Uh the 80% impervious service we can make we can we can correct that. I don't think we're going to need a variance for that. We can meet that requirement with some additional green space. Uh the architectural feature for the transparency we we have glass and I'll show you the elevation actually.

I can bring it up.

Oh, you have it. Okay. So, the front of the building from the street. [clears throat] That's it. The front of the building from the street um has some glass in it. We don't have a problem putting a whole run of glass across the front of the building. We've got two glass entry doors. Then if we extend this front peak up a little bit, not to match the higher roof in the back because remember um floor level at the offices is at zero or six inches. We're four feet in the back. So this building's going to automatically be elevated to a two-story space basically, although it's clear story. We don't have a second floor in the warehouse. The reason for that is basically cost and effectiveness. The new building code just came out and to put second floors in warehouse spaces is going to require a whole lot of stuff. sprinkler systems, uh, non-combustible materials. It's just not really needed to do there. But we're definitely willing to make a two-story office space, and that will raise this roof peak up slightly below the peak that's here. We can get additional uh, glazing for transparency on the front side of the building. And we can certainly get it. This is the side of the building from the driveway. These are the warehouse spaces, the entries to the warehouses. This roof will get raised up and we can put another row of glazing if need be. Definitely up above and maybe towards the back area too. We'll just make a simple adjustment within our footprint that we already have to accommodate the stairs up to this space. We know we need a firewall between the two buildings. Theoretically the two spaces, not the two buildings is all one building. It's just a big rectangle. But this wall instead of being the firewall just be part of the office space. We'll go back three to four feet. We'll put a hallway in here and this office can access a set of stairs and this office can access a set of stairs. That'll bring us up. That'll be on the on the revised site plan that we're going to be working on the next couple of days. Um,

so we're hoping that that second floor and I like the board's opinion on this not feasible to put a second floor in a warehouse. Although it will be a twotory space in height, but we can certainly put two stories on the office space because it's a 4ft drop in elevation and not match the roof peak. It'll look really nice. Um, I think I've addressed everything. Hey, you [clears throat] said that if you're going to do the two stories in the office space, there would be a firewall between the warehouse. Correct. All the way up. There has to be. Correct. [clears throat]

Yes. So, in essence, this this wall that's the firewall would stretch back and we just put another non non.

Yeah. And then I just like to show you ABD Engineering out of Skenctities has done us a grading plan. Um they're working on an urban runoff plan right now. Hopefully I'll have that by Monday. And uh I don't think this was introduced to you. It's upside down. Um it's just the way they printed it. I'm gonna spin it around. Um but basically EBD has done a survey with TOPO with our building overlay on it showing the retaining wall and they've got a whole bunch of more details that they'll include it in their in their final set including an urban runoff plan. So everything's underway. We're closer than it looks. Um, a lot of the information on our checklist and on the staff report is completed, just not submitted yet. Um, I've been working with Eric over the past week or so in getting those to where they need to be. Uh, do a lot of presentations in other municipalities. I've only been in Troy a couple of times, so I apologize about that. Um, but they're very, very close now. and it was suggested that we just kind of hold on to it as not to confuse the board tonight with new information that would only have been submitted like last Friday. Um, but we'll certainly get a a more complete application in from Monday's submission. We'll also apply to the ZBA for whatever variances we determine that are needed. Um, we know two. Uh, we think we can get out of the other three. We'll talk to you about that. Um, you're more than welcome to get out of Saw five if you'd like to, but I think we can do that with the area on the sideyard setbacks and front yard setback. Um, so anyway, any questions for me at this time or the owner?

I think the question I have is what's the warehouse use? So, the warehouse use um the owner, Mike, I'll have him explain it to you. Good evening. How you doing? Hey, Mike.

My name is Mike Melville. Um, I'm the owner of Advanced Siding. This is October will be my 10th year in business. So, I'm just looking for a spot to store like my my my picks, my ladders, my scaffolding, right? I live in Emerald Greens right now and on the side of my house, I have fenced in where I store all my equipment. So, I'm just trying to, you know, I got a dump trailer and a uh white trailer that I tow all my ladders and picks with. Just looking for a spot to put my trailers inside, my ladders. I store sometimes I get extra siding material and I'll store it outside, but I'll tarp it off and no matter what it gets field mice in the boxes. So, I'm just trying to expand my company a little bit and the next step would be to able to store a little bit of extra material and my equipment. You know, I've grown to where I'm I have two crews now, so I have more I have sometimes I have material sitting at my house or equipment that's not getting used or I may get some windows delivered to my house or sitting in my driveway or half of my street has trailers on it. So, it's just time for the next step. And this, uh, tent spring app is about two and a half, three minutes from my house.

Okay. So, it's very convenient. Um, and again, my brother was, you know, I'm just trying to bring him in as, you know, kind of like a silent partner just to, you know, give him a little incentive and work together. So, you you won't be doing any production there. No operation. Storing scaffolding, picks, ladders. my guys, we may meet in the morning, you know, grab this trailer, you're going here, you might pick your check up on Friday, just like that. We're, you know, it's not going to be constant somebody there at all times. So, Mike, that whole storage area in the back is all going to be yours.

Well, I want it all to be mine, but the way my brain works, I don't want it to cost me money. So, my idea was when I bought the place, I was like, I'm going to build a warehouse for myself. And then I was like, wait, how can I make it not cost me money over time? and I was like, "Oh, maybe I could rent a spot." So, I would like to rent one of a warehouse out um and two of the office spaces just for to try to break even over over the long term, you know. So, do you have you have no idea who might be renting your front offices or

So, I've been in talks with uh a friend of mine. They're they're out of Troy Same Day South Gutters. They have a gutter business. They have they rent right now across from the ICC where Lusco used to be. They have two box trucks. They park on the street. Um, so I'm trying to offer him Wall Street parking. I'm talking to him and his wife. They may take an office and the warehouse. Um, worst case scenario, maybe I'll keep it for myself and just make it bigger, you know. Um, the main thing is to have a spot for me to store my stuff and for my guys to come and meet, collect paychecks, and just kind of, you know, have a spot for clients when I, you know, if I give them an estimate, they can come sit in my office rather than me going to sit in their kitchen and discuss, you know, paperwork and sign contracts. We're just trying to bring it to the next level.

Okay. So, one of those offices would be yours. Yes. Which I we right now we have them split in half. I'm thinking about making mine smaller and making this maybe like 2/3. It's the one that we're going to rent, you know, twothirds of the front space and just giving myself just a small spot for a desk just for someone to sit and, you know, come sit down and talk with me. Um, and then that's that's really it. Do you have that set up? The warehouse you got it set up? Yeah, I see the two overhead doors. There two man two man doors. You'll have a wall in between the gecko or

Yep. Right. Right. Right now, it's set up as two warehouses, two separate equally uh sized warehouses, two two separate equally sized offices. The intent for Mike is to to to occupy a warehouse and an office. Whether the walls are just within the structure will determine. Um but for the most part, his objective is to rent uh to use a warehouse and an office and rent out for income to cover the cost the other office and the other warehouse as he explained. And the sizes might not be equal. They might adjust a little bit, but basically there will will be walls separating the two offices and the two warehouses with a firewall between the warehouse building and the office building.

Um, how much room will you have to So, the doors are obviously on the on the east side. Yes, the overhead doors. What kind of turning radius you have to get in and out of there? We did we did run some uh some um uh schematics on that. So, we're going to have a 20 foot You're talking in the driveway. Yeah, the driveway is going to be 20 feet wide. So, we can we can definitely fit pickup trucks and box trucks. Yeah, inside the the building width inside is 40T.

So, um coming up the coming up the incline into the warehouses won't be a problem. Backing out and back down the hill won't be a problem. Um obviously tractor trailers, we don't plan on doing that, but any any larger box trucks or tractor trailers, it's not meant for that. It's not built for that. like almost back a tractor trailer straight back, right? Yeah.

I I was thinking in worst case scenario, I can make this one if it's like for cluster and and space if it's too much to have two, you know, two, I can make this just for me and we could rent that, you know. So, we're open to negotiating and changing things, whatever you guys suggest. I I like I this was one story trying to keep cost down, you know, and the sprinkler system and square footage and all that, but if we have to go up, we can go up. So, on the office part, on the front part, um you mentioned something about going up, maybe putting two uh two stories.

I I think to I think to eliminate the um the need for one of the variances for second floor is required. I think we can put a second floor above these offices. Yeah. And then our option is to match the elevation height, which we probably won't do because of the 4ft differential and floor. So the the rear will be two two stories in theory in height, but there won't be any additional levels, high ceilings. the front offices could potentially and may need to be um if we don't want to get the variance for it uh instead of being single story space could be a a true blue twotory space. We'll just [clears throat] we'll just rate

we'll just raise it we'll just raise this roof up. As you can see we got plenty of room. We can raise this roof up. Even if we raise it, you know, 2 ft below the other peak of the warehouses, we can still get a second floor in there. And that'll also meet the transparency requirements. Do you have you have enough room for floor joist and a full 8 foot full 8 foot or would you have like knee walls and a No, no, we we can clear span it. Yep. How high is the um how high is the peak from from the front grade to the back peak? Just out of curiosity, I guess.

Actually have that information. So the so right now uh from grade two right now I have about a 10 foot differential. So from but these are high ceilings in here. So from um grade two the lower peak I've got about 21 ft into the higher peak I got about 31 ft. So I've got room to

to bring it up. The other option is I don't want to make it a blah building either is to just carry this roof line all the way across and make it a single roof line. It's cheaper. doesn't look so good. But, um, that's probably not going to be the option. We might give it a little feature out front. And then we'll side the building. The front of the building, we'll have some some masonry work, some stone, some decorative stone, uh, Wayne scating with a stone cap below the windows. And then we can't do that on the side because of the gray differentials. And obviously, we're not going to do that in the back. So, everything else will just be a vinyl siding. We'll pick some colors. And, uh, obviously Mike's a cider, so we know it's good quality siding. And it'll be a shingled roof.

Yeah,

I think it'll be a nice fit for this is probably our sixth concept of we've had all different types of buildings here, all different types of uses. The buildings didn't work. The uses didn't work. Um what we're proposing here for warehouses and for general office space are permitted uses in the district. And um that makes for a good fit. occupation at a site with a nice building is a good fit. Plus, you know, the parking that we're going to put in there is definitely a good fit. We can drain a lot with some storm water drains and uh we'll do a runoff plan, too. So, I think we can really de develop. He's anxious to go. I mean, if it was up to him, he would have had a building up last fall, but we had to get to this point.

Yeah. Right. [clears throat]

So, we'll certainly take any approvals you can give us tonight. We'll certainly take any recommendations on um what varantries you feel we need. We'd like to we'd like to minimize them. Um I don't think we can get out of the sideyard and the front yard setbacks uh without drastic change. Um but I do think we can, you know, omit the impervious surface. We can take care of the architectural guidelines. And if you guys think that the twotory front will suffice, it only makes sense [snorts] to put mezzanines and second stories in warehouses just is not a feasible option. Okay. So, um, we're just here to look at this tonight, right?

Yeah. The only motion that you guys could entertain at this time would be to declare the action beyond listed under seeker. Could make that motion if you like. Okay. I'll make the motion to declare this an unlisted action under seeker. All those in favor? I second. Oh, thank you. All those in favor? I I Okay. Opposed? Motion's passed. So, when um when would they go before the zoning board? Do we have to recommend that they approve the variances?

They would they would have their first opportunity to go before the zoning board on March 4th. On March 4th. that um [clears throat] they will be resubmitting their proposal on Monday uh to tee up their first um official proceeding on February 17th, you know, and you could at that time once you see the the extent of their proposal and the documents they plan to submit

issue recommendations for the zoning so I think the applicant is looking for a degree of um your feeling as to whether or not the the zoning variance requests might be uh something that you're comfortable recommending or if there are certain changes that you know that you'd like to see on the proposal, then I think now would be an appropriate time to inform the design professional so that he can update his documents accordingly. [snorts] such, you know, he made references to pvious surfaces. He made references to striping uh crosswalk parking placement. You know, he asked whether or not this board would see see a second story on the front office section as being compliant with our zoning regulations. Um, I I made mention I would prefer to talk to corporation council on that, but I I I'm sort of leaning in the camp that it's probably going to fulfill the requirement. Again, I'd want to get some confirmation from corporation council.

But if I'm correct, your desire would be to change these drawings to have the twotory office in the front. Correct. And as opposed to getting the variance. Yes. As opposed to getting a variance. But you it would be the same use the office uses in the front of the building, right?

Um [clears throat] just looking at this and I haven't seen the site plan yet. You mentioned the urban runoff control plans being you know made right now. just it seems tight honestly the site I mean in terms of the increase in impervious and presumably increasing storm water runoff you're adding some sanitary which affects the combined sore I mean if you you're part you have a couple parking spaces but yeah you you do do second story office space now you're limited on parking as well it's just a

well the second story office space would be part of the first floor. I don't know if that makes a difference or not. So, theoretically, we wouldn't have four offices. Second story, uh, leasable one would be second story one, leasable two would be second story two. It increases demand for parking. Maybe in theory, I guess, is what I'm saying. If it's bigger, yeah, even though he wouldn't have somebody on the second floor, it would increase parking area. I mean, if he No, not if he didn't have anyone there. I mean, if he made it a vaulted ceiling without a floor and it goes up to the

I thought there's I think what you're proposing is not four office. You're saying just two offices and two stories. Correct. Corre. Yes. So [clears throat] not to not to increasing the number of people who will correct be work in the space.

My understanding is to avoid the variance potentially avoid the variance. That twostory space would be required not just in height but in floor. So to to achieve that we'd have a first floor and a second floor. So the the ceiling of the first floor would be the floor of the second floor and then the roof would be the ceiling of the second floor. So there'd actually be two levels with stairway up to those levels, but they'd be the same use. So occument one could use the upstairs for file storage. Ocument two could use the upstairs for file storage. I see.

So we wouldn't have four offices. It still be two offices, just two floors. I think that would omit the that I think that would meet the requirement for the twotory as opposed to getting the variance for the way we're showing it now which is just a singlestory space here. We're trying to minimize the variances basically. So what is your take on that Chris? Do you know what the tenative plan is to reduce the peak runoff from the site given the restraints? Uh he just started it not 100% certain. You could hire the gutter guy and he could put it into [laughter] a catch basin. Well, that's definitely going to be gutters on the building. We don't want to do here. We don't have to. Right. So, you don't know until you go to the zoning,

right? Yeah. Right. We're hoping we were hoping that this the height of this building would count, right? Either way, you have the same amount of roof. So, you know, the runoff from the roof has to be calculated. We'll have gutters and drainage and all that. Yeah. I mean, you run it into catch basin in the green space maybe. I don't know, you know, but some [clears throat] way so it's not going out into the street. I did it at my own house. I put into the ground. Sure. Yeah. Um Yeah. So, and on Spring Avenue, will you have concrete sidewalks? they required.

We've got a whole run of new sidewalk coming across the whole face of the Okay. And you're you're using the existing curb cut. So that's an approved curb cut already.

So even though it's all curb cut in the front of the building, they don't have to put curbs in if they don't want to. They would need to delineate the driveway with a curb. There is curb there. It needs to be raised. Yeah, there's a there's a flush curb there now. So, basically the intent we're we're calling it a new 20 foot curb cut to to accompany the driveway. So, in essence, we'd have to raise or reestablish the curb across the green space. There's a flush curb there now, but it doesn't suffice in front of the green space. Right. That's a better condition than existing. I like I agree. Okay.

And again, we're trying to enhance the site. Um, thus the the two area variances for the setbacks, but as far as the two the three others go, um, you know, we can certainly apply for them, most likely get them, but we, you know, it's we feel it's better to go to the board with less variances than more variances. The more you go with, the better chance you have to get one uh not granted and the other requirements we can meet with the with the transparency and the um and the impervious space. So, it's really the second floor is the questionable thing. I guess the question to you directly off the record would be what do you I know we're on the record, so it's got to be what do you think would be better? Do you like the twotory space with everything elevating up or would you you like it just as is with the singlestory space?

I don't like the twotory space. You don't. I mean I think if if you know if you had two tiers of gable roofing, right? You know the distance from the the first to the second gable, you know, the visual of it would have to really this is just going to go up. Yeah. So it what's the second I mean having gables that close together might throw your eye a little bit but yeah I this is an industrial building you know we're not we're not building the Taj Mahal or a residential thing in the inner city and your neighbors are all you know is it the Culligan building right next door

used to be right so you're gonna be the best thing on the block Yeah. Yeah. You're taking up a lot of space downstairs because you're going to put two stair staircase in either either side. We were discussing if we had to, we could either eliminate that that first garage crotch the warehouse. If we have to put stairs here, I could just make mine bigger and we can eliminate this totally. And we, you know, we could that would give me more space here and more space here. And if if we had to go that route.

Yeah. Uh I can I can give um you know I can consult with corporation council regarding the second floor requirements. Um if if you do have a second floor in that front office section there is a transparency requirement 30% on that that won't be a problem. We can actually get more up there than we can on the first floor. Yeah. Um uh wouldn't wouldn't I don't think you're going to need to be sprinklered either way. But if we put second story in the warehouse, we will as existing here in your drawings. Do do you meet the 30% with the the glass?

The 30% is only applicable to the second floor. The first only the second 50% on the first and we do not. So we're going to basically extend this glass. Um not sure how we're going to do it yet, but whether it's a series of windows or whether it's fixed across the front, but basically the front facade, this will increase um the glass basic along the front uh will certainly increase a little bit. And then we've got a a single window on the side. Not sure what we can do with that because the gray differential, but up above we can certainly meet the requirement. You know, just an observation, it seems to me it's going to be a lot more expensive as opposed to getting variance, right? If you get the variance, it's you're saving money here. I would agree. Yeah. If you don't need it,

assuming that they grant it. Are advances are typically granted with good cause. So, I would rather see this round. Yeah. If I, you know, Yeah, I would too. And and you know, trying to meet the 50% for the glass, I mean, it can throw things out architecturally. You can make the argument that, you know, it doesn't work. Um, but you know, obviously you're gonna have a staircase, you know, the second floor is going to have to meet whatever building code you have.

You know, if you're going up 15 stories, it'll be a different story. It gets cheaper as you go up. In this case, it's just going to cost you money and uh won't be space that you need necessarily. So, you know, my thing would would be if I was you, I I would pursue the variance and, you know, I don't know if you can get guidance up front on that or or what, but that's the only one we were really up in air on because the two the setback variances we got to get. No getting around that. Sure. The two uh the the transparency and the impervious space we can fix. It's an easy fix. The second story was the quirky one. Yeah. We're open, like I said, open for suggestions.

Um, so far we're one in one. Yeah, it's gonna be a lot cheaper assuming they they they grant if I was you. Okay. Yeah. If they don't grant it for whatever reason, then we would, you know, time is off a little bit. Go back to the drawing board. What can this board does the can this board recommend anything to zone? Um, I I would think before you guys is your recommendations, you probably want to see the full extent of of your first proposal, but I I I think that they have enough to think about, you know, in terms of what they may be prepared to recommend or not.

I just I just want to clarify our our timeline. So, we're going to resubmit to you on Monday um for the meeting on February 17th. for the ZBA meeting on March 4th. Do we need to submit by February 11th, which would be before this our next meeting here?

Yes, but we'll have staff will have sufficient time. I think that we'll have um how I believe the staff meeting is earlier that week. So, we'll I I'll be in a position to be able to get back to you in terms of preparing an application. If your application's in the door, that's where you want to be. if it has to be adjusted. There's at least enough time. There's a few days before that needs to happen. So, you guys should be okay to apply for the March 4th um CPA super. And then my next question would be you don't have to answer this. Um complete application ZBA approvals. What's the chances of getting an approval final approval at next meeting? Still got to do a public hearing. I don't know. We don't have Rich here, but you know, I don't know if we could do the final approval

without this variances. Yeah, I I think there's too much for them to So, we're still looking at a March. We We anticipated that. It's okay. [clears throat] He's still going to be building, right? He's just He's just getting anxious. [laughter] He's got a He's got a backhoe ready to go. Good. I think it's great. I think it's great. A little cold right now, but you know. How's it How's the uh how's the earth? Not bad. No, we took out a little concrete. You mean like uh when you get back to when you get back to to excavating be a lot of lot of shell and

that's what people think. We won't know until we dig. I'm I mean I'm using I'm getting prices from a couple different excavators. I work with a lot of builders um from locally. So, I'm going between a couple different guys trying to get the best number, but they're they got all legitimate machines. It's things that they do all the time. So, ramps and all that. Yeah, I'm not worried about that. I'm using guys that dig for builders. Um, so I'm I'm going to do the siding a lot of it with my company, but like the the plumbing, excavation, the foundation, that'll all be subbed out. It's all slide grade anyway. You're not going down eight feet. You're going down four, right? Yes, sir. All right.

I don't know what action we can take. Whatever we can do. We uh What do we do? So far, secret. You guys did you guys declared the action to be unlisted and that's kind of the that's about all you can do. Yeah. That prepares them for their first meeting. We wish we could do more. Hey, we it's understandable. It's a step in the right direction. Yes, sir. Yeah. Because like I said, it's so many options.

Yeah, I agree. [clears throat] It needs some love. So, we want to make it look nice. Give it some love. They did a nice job on the the two buildings next to you. Um they did a nice job on Culligan. Yep. Y and uh the guy who moved Yeah, he painted it and he Yeah, he changed some windows. The guy on the left side there. Yeah. I think he rented it out to like a roofing company it looks like or something. My cousin Jerick. Okay. Yep. Yep. He rented out to Bernardo 518 or something. Yeah. Yeah, I see him over there. He actually did a couple roofs for me. He's uh does good work, but he did a nice job in the building. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You think your building will fit right in there. Yeah. Thank you.

Appreciate your time. There's our recommendation. Take it. cold to do anything else. Not doing [laughter] we don't want to probably shrinks, doesn't it? Yeah. Funny. Usually when I see leftover people

thanks for coming in. Okay. So close meeting. Yeah. Thanks. Close it. Can I do it? Go ahead. Close it. Make a motion to adjurnn. Second. All in favor? I. [laughter] Thank you, Mr.