Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

North East Apollo Drive. Yes. Yeah. Item number two. All right. Okay. Motion for an amended agenda. I'll make a motion that we remove the item number two from the agenda. I second that motion. And approve the rest of it. I approve. And approve the rest of the app. I second the approval of the rest of it. Okay. Any further discussion? All in favor? Yes. Any opposed? Motion carries. Number two, declaration of conflict of interest. Any do conflict to declare? No.

Moving on. Three, approval of minutes. Like we have a proposed amendment from November 25th. An error on 5A public hearing. The minutes state to receive public input on amending chapter 1.27 sign permit. Public hearing must receive input on the annexation plan. Minute should read to receive public input on the sensation policy plan. I mean to have more further discussion about that. Makes sense. I'm surprised somebody got it. So I would entertain a motion to adjust or amend the minutes from November 25th.

A motion to amend the minutes from 11:25th, 2025. I'll second that. Have a motion. Have a second. All in favor? Yes. Yes. Any opposed? Motion carries. Presentation of discussion on PES.

Okay. We discussed this a little bit last time. I've heard back from the lawyer. I don't want to spend too much time on this, but how we I do want to move forward with um any code changes is instead of me bringing code changes to you because I went through and actually made a bunch of of changes to the code, but I really want your direction first as a planning commission and you tell me how you want me to proceed and then I after I receive your permission, I will go through and adjust code according to what you want. Does that make sense? instead of present. So I'm just giving you the PUB code as is right now. That's what's printed off. Um the purpose of it, we don't need to go through the purpose and all that. You guys can read that. But the the the issues that I wanted to come up with, if you look at section, let's look at 1.33.015. Okay, this is where this is where it it it outlines that this is a legislative process and that it's actually supported by state code. I've got the codes right here that it supports that the lawyer sent to me. But this is because this PUD overlay, one of this one of the confusions is that it's an overlay that everybody has and it's attached to zoning. It has to be applied individually for each for each project. It says a developer may make application for consideration of the approval of a PUD over overlay zone. The city council shall review and may approve such applications after receiving a recommendation from the planning commission. As with other legislative matters, a public hearing is required in accordance with applicable state and co local requirements. So this is this is consistent with what the state law has. We have a contradiction in our code. If you turn to the very back the very almost not the very last page but it's 1.33.040. Okay. This outlines a process in chapter 2.03

and 2.04 of city code that gives DRC the ability to approve and do a make approval process. this whole this whole applic it's it's on this page right at the very last it's after D landscaping after C all of that for the picture pages and this is DRC okay and then it says DRC

this whole paragraph contradicts what it says at the beginning in a way because it gives DRC the ability to approve well it doesn't really give the DRC ability all this this process uh in chapter 2.03 and 2.04 is under administrative decisions. Does that make sense? So it's it's taking and kind of combining combining it goes through a flow process, but this this kind of confuses the process. Well, we we put this in on specifically uh because um it wasn't clear if a concept plan could be gone through initially because the vision I think when we talked about this the issue was sometimes people um they start out spending you know thousands of dollars drawing up something that has it's never going to fly for many different reasons.

Yeah. which DRC would know. And so the concept plan, it was basically said that you can submit a concept plan. You're not vested at the concept plan level. And the vision was to submit it there so you could identify issues, hurdles, things you had to plan and try to put it all together. It wasn't, to my knowledge, that section wasn't necessarily designed for the final maybe just written wrong or something. and and that makes sense, but some people are are wanting to use this as a final approval process to to deviate from the legislative process. And so the the lawyer just says it needs to be more clear that we that we have to have this and then in that process because of what Mike has said is

vested rights really aren't triggered until they get the base zoning. And since they have to apply for a PUB overlay, which establishes a base zoning, then do you want the PUD overlay to be done at the beginning and then hash out all of the details? DRC, we spend a lot of time and money and efforts hashing things out and then to have it kindly come to the very end um and then not get approved. That's hard for developers. It's hard for cities. I I don't support that process, but it can the the lawyer was very clear. It doesn't matter if it's done at the beginning or the end of all of that invested time. It still has to go through the legislative process. So, we have some things that are coming up that have had a bunch of stuff put in before and and then the POD has been over overdone first. So I propose this is where he suggested if you do the PUB overlay at the beginning with just the concept so that thousands of dollars aren't spent in negotiating with with with um the city and everything. Get that done so they have a basis off it and then the development agreement is what comes in at the end. Does that make sense?

The problem we have is if the expectations are put up front with the city council or with you as a planning commission. These are what we want. He recommended you as a planning commission and the city council to attach maybe a um a draft development agreement or so or a clause or something saying these are what we would like to see in the negotiations and then and so then there's an expectation of oh we want water towers and so that has to be done and another point to make out that I want the planning commission to know the pe overlay does not anywhere guarantee public infrastructure improvements that's done with the development agreement. So this what I love the PUB about is it it sets architectural standards that we can't we can't negotiate in any other way and more of a master development and it and it park space all these things that are good for a community that we can't negotiate under any other type of zoning we can do that with the PUD but the development agreement is where all of the infrastructures are tied to. So when you approve a PUD, you're not saying that there's any infrastructure improvement done. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Okay. So as a council, as I go through and re and rewrite and make this more clear, do you want the process to have the PUD overlay done and then the development agreement? Because right now they're combined. They want the PUD and the development agreement um approved at the same time. I think that that's a lot of work for the developer and for the city resources to have both of those done at the same time. Does that make sense? So I your in input what are your thoughts? My only concern I guess was it sounds like you've addressed my concern, but my concern has been if we approve um a PUD or a development um what's to guarantee that those things happen?

Only if they do a development agreement. So the development agreement, you're suggesting that the development agreement happened first. Is that right? And then the PUB.

No, the PUD. Okay. So, the PUD will set some standards that the developer and the city can use to negotiate. So, if you look at in your in your packet, I have a sample of a bonus density calculator. Okay. So, this right here is a bonus density calculator. So, this is how the PUB we will we will be able to use this calculator to calculate bonus density for the PUB overload. The PUD overlay allows flexibility. It allows the number one thing that it allows is it allows architectural standards that we can't imply. Like as a city, we can't tell people to put Stuckco brick. We can't tell them to put put landscaping. But if you look at this, you can. And this is how they get their bonus density by by saying we are going to put trees in. We are going to do we are going to use these types of materials and that is a base standard. So when a developer enters and applies for the PUD overlay, they are agreeing to architectural standards. And so you as a planning commission are saying, "Okay, we'll approve the PUB so for the architectural standards upgrade. And then it's up to the engineers and the developers to hash out all the details um so that they can make sure the water's there so that they can make sure that it all meets this code." And I think it's it's a great code. I really do think that the PUD is a good tool for the city. It just needs to be known how to use because in the past they've been tying infrastructure improvements and kind of tying them with the PUD and they're separate. They're not the same. So when you approve a PUB know that you don't have the infrastructure you don't have the you don't have the water towers or the lift station or any whatever it is that's not tied to the PUB that is tied to the development agreement and then

but we were going to put those together. Yes, you put them together was always together. It it is, but then that but what if the PUB doesn't get get approved? Like what if what if you know that's just a lot of work for people to to Yeah. Well, the vision was you know to conceptually have them come in define the overall site layout, the density, all the land uses and the design standards. And from there we can say okay is if if this is going to fly then they go to engineering and put it all together. You know what I mean? But but I mean all of it's not going to be known exactly like without the traffic study, without all of the even knowing the depths of sewers and all those things. We're not going to know all those yet. But I think if we can at least

have it initially approved to say, okay, hey, yeah, you can do that density if you meet the points and you do what you're supposed to do. It would just protect the developers and the city more if you already had that legislative process done ahead of time because you don't want to go through all of that development if if it has you know what I mean. Yeah. The only problem though is we're going to have to have enough of it to be able to explain it to the public because everybody's going to be like what are you going to do with this and what about the fire code and what about all the issues you know and and and and we just would have that's part of the education of the public. One of the biggest things the NPI has been doing is been educating what NPI

the neighborhood partnership initiative when people are coming in and talking about development. Something that they've been putting on their agendas is trying to explain what a PD is. And there's a lot of people that are becoming educated as a as a public so that they understand when they use this tool that the city can use. We don't have all the variables worked out because that's the way the tool is designed. It's supposed to be flexible, but we do have a guideline of what we can. and here's a concept because you can have a concept plan that says this is kind of a general idea of what we want and then it may or may not be the same as the end product. So, you know, it's pretty obvious that the public doesn't understand because the last time we had public comment, we got a big push back on PUDS in general,

right? Yeah. You know, we've never actually approved one, right? They've never been done, right? Well, we've done overlays, but we haven't done we haven't used this P. We've never used this. And the whole vision of this was to try to make the overlays more transparent, more equal. So that I Well, when a developer comes in as a city staff, it's nice to say, here's how you do that PUB, you know, and instead of creating a whole new overlay for every single de development. I don't feel like that is transparent, right? you know.

Well, and that's why we did it because it essentially mirrors exactly what the land use plan what we were trying to get, you know, to give them a carrot to say, "Hey, if if you'll come, we'll give you more density if you can provide the parks and the trails and the the nicer buildings and the garages and the solar and do all of it. And if you don't want to do any of the amenities, then great. You can pay the city and then the city will put it into existing parks, you know, something." Yeah. to get us where we're, you know, make a higher quality of living most. Did Sam help design this the beauty? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Which I'm sure he's helped other cities probably.

What's to keep the infrastructure things that we want to attach to? I mean, how we can't personally guide that anymore like once it's out of our the development agreement can. Yeah. Yeah. That's where the teeth are is in the development. Yeah. Because like we've done this on almost every project like Aspen Ridges when they came through they said because they wanted originally RM16 but then they said if you remember then they're like well we're only really going to build 10 units to the acre. Then we said why are we giving RM6?

Yeah. So then we said okay fine then we're going to put teeth in in the development agreements that you got to put in the clubhouse and you can only go to a max of 10. Do you know what I mean? And then they had to go to the engineering and put it all together. But but after discussing with the with the lawyer, it just makes sense to have because it's because it is because because we're messing with density and we're changing density, then it has to go through the legislative process somewhere. And I say it should be done at the beginning before we get to the very end. You know what I mean? That's that's just my that's that's what I the feedback is. If you're okay with that, I will make that clearer in the code because I think it just needs to be spelled out a little bit more clearly in the code. Um,

but should they should they be required to go to the DRC? I don't think they need to go to DR like I don't know. My this is my vision of it is just if they go to the DRC and the DRC, you know, between the engineer and you all the staff that's there, they're going to be able to tell them right away like to do this, you're going to have to upgrade the water tower. You're going to have to, you know, increase the road. That's already in our code. They have a preliminary meeting. They could have a brief preliminary meeting before they put a preliminary plat plan like it's not a preliminary meeting. What's it called? It's a concept

the concept meeting. They we they could still be in the concept phase have one meeting with the DRC to get an overall view of what they need to have happen and then and then I would take it through the we could take it through the legislative process understanding these are what the expectations are and then they negotiate it. But then the DRC does at least knows they have that that tool to use. Does that make sense? Yep. Okay. Forgive me. I'm trying to remember what the DR what DRC stands. The development review committee. Okay. Don't don't ask that's a great question. The development review committee is a committee that's made up of our city engineers are all of all of the people.

I just didn't know what the acronym stood for. So it used to be land use but then they copied the DRC from the development we did at Tmont Center because that's what they called the DRC is actually a committee put together for Tmont Center originally. Yeah. which is fine. But I think the the I think the best way to do this is you ought to put this in like the word doc and then make the modifications that you're proposing. Send us the red line version that we can then see what the code was originally. What you're proposing is the red line adjustments. Yes, that's what I'll do next. Yeah. And then I'll have the red line. I actually I started doing that, but I wanted your direction first and then I'll go through and do the red line codes and then I'll I'll have it for your feedback and then before anything's changed, I'll run it by the city attorney.

Yeah. But I think I think I don't know what you guys feel, but I think in my mind I think I would start with that. Okay. Just because most of the things I mean, if they're reasonable, we're probably going to be okay with that. If they're not, then we can say, "Okay, no, I think we adjust this and have you adjust the code and then bring it back." Otherwise, it'll just take this like make Yeah. It'll just take a long time. So, you just take I think so. And then and then if you can send it to us prior to the meeting, then we can review it and not have to, you know, go through it at the meeting. Then we've already kind of done our recon. Then when we get here, we can go through and have, you know, kind of make some decisions quickly.

Okay, that is I' I'm totally happy with that. Okay. Any more discussions on PUA tonight? I think that that was sufficient amount of time. We went more than our 15 minutes. Did we narrow it down of what you know what is going to be required then for the initial approval process? Um a from my understanding it would be a concept plan analysis with the DRC and then well maybe we ought to require them to meet with the DRC before they ever even do anything. Well, I was first. Yeah, just to do that first and then I would bring it to the planning commission because you'd have to have a public hearing and public notice.

Well, then I think we need to have them submit the layout, the density max, the land uses, and their design standards of what they're trying to hit. Okay? And any parks, amenities, anything like that, you know what I mean? Like submit all that to us so we can review it prior to the meeting and then ultimately then we can go through it and at least give them a concept idea. Okay. But I'd also love to see a staff report from the DRC meeting that says, you know, like Logan does this on every project. They submit anything that's on the agenda. It's like there's a staff report that says, "Okay, we reviewed it. We think it meets all the code except this and this and this, you know, or whatever." But

I like that. Let me let me I'm going to feed into that a little bit more. kind of how I want to move forward with a lot of this is instead of getting like when we have a public notice and a public hearing, I want you to have no prior notice two weeks before of what's coming up in the next public notice. Like have a discussion even if it's just a here's what's coming up. We don't have to take all your time, but like here's what's coming up. You can you can look forward to this in the next meeting. So So that's what we're doing tonight. It's a discussion only. code says that I have to I have to invite the developers if there's a public hearing. Um we can discuss it with or without the developers. I'm I will probably as a general thumb invite all the developers to come to any discussion that is being held with their development. I think it's just a courtesy thing that I need to do and I apologize I didn't do that this time around because I just assumed it was a discussion tonight. But um but ideally we do our we will do our planning commission meetings. We do all the new items and then I will have a little section of these are what's coming up down the pipeline. It can change though because sometimes if they sometimes there'll be a DRC meeting in there and they might not make it on the agenda, but at least you'll have a heads up of what's coming. What do you guys think about that?

Okay. All right. So what going back to the the flow process, concept plan, landscape designs, all those different things submitted to DRC so that you guys can have a general idea of okay when they use a PUB overlay, this is this is what they're envisioning and because it's been through the DRC, I give you those two weeks to review it and then we have the public hearing. So you'll see it twice. You'll get you'll get a little prep and then you'll then I'll send out the public hearing notices. You'll have your public hearing on it and then you'll make recommendations to the city council. city council will approve or not approve and then we move forward with the final with the preliminary plat and final plat approval process. Does that sound Yeah, it would just be really good if we knew what was addressed in the DRC.

Yes. As part of my staff report. Yeah. As part of the staff report just to say, okay, we already told them that the water tank is going to be required. Do you know what I'm saying? Just so that we can connect the dots. Yeah. And then I think we just are going to have to approve it carefully, you know, as far as saying, you know, the layout, the density, the land uses, the standards are approved, but none of the engineering, none of the, you know, technical things that the development agreement, all that will come later. Okay. And then and then legally we're sound because we've got the leg the PUD going through the legislative process and then we've got the the development agreement coming back through the final approval process that it usually goes through. Yeah. That's perfect. And I think they should focus on the carrots.

Okay. You know, like like you know, because in my mind, the whole vision of this PUB was we gave them We gave them carrots. Yeah. We gave them we gave them ideas of carrots they could potentially provide, but we've got to have it's got to be cool enough and amazing enough that, you know, that's why we it's got to go through the approval process because, you know, we don't want to just do it if it's not going to be amazing. You know, we'll just leave it. I have seen I can tell you I have seen some concept plans that I'm like, "Oh, I I can get behind this." And I've seen some concept plans are like, "I don't see how this improves anything but adds density, right?" And so there's there's got to be I I agree. I totally That was the whole purpose. We were trying to get the developers to pay to get more density but then to help pay to increase parks and all the cool stuff that we wanted

because if you look at if you look in here if you look in here like I don't want to take time to go through all this but the amenities are open space recreation streetscape things that we can't ask developers to do that will make our city look world look better. Exactly.

I totally I totally think that that's something that would be great. One thing I do want before we go on, this is this was an area of concern for me. Um, additional density bonuses. If you look on six, no, not okay. If you look down, okay, there's these charts right here. All these charts. Go to the next page. Um, and it's the density bonuses. It's D items D and D. Okay. So how the how the density bonuses work right now is they can get the base say like you can put a hundred houses on a parcel of land according to every an amenity upgrade like streetscaping open space they get a certain percentage of added density bonuses for that up to 50%. So they can get up to 150 houses on that on that on that acreage. But items D and E make it so that that changes that they can get more than 150 um units on that house because it says um if it's

only senior and moderate income housing units. Yeah, senior monitor. Do you but but that would make it so that maybe they could do 200 units on that and we don't have a definite um ending of that and that to me as a city planner kind of I worry about that because I don't know how to regulate that. That's my issue with that. What do you mean regulate? Well, like if you wanted if you approved the PUB over if you approve the PUB overlay with the assumption that they're going to add 150 homes, but then you come back with a development agreement and there's 300 homes on there because they utilize the it's only 20% or 10%. So the max it would be would be, you know, 20 units on the 100 as example and 10 units on the, you know, on the the 55 and older, but that's in addition to the 50% too,

correct? So, but so there is a dead. Okay. But but it's it should be pretty I mean the vision was you know if you're doing it's hard to put in a 55 and older community. Okay. Unless you're pretty dense like because they don't need huge yards you know and the moderate income housing units are essentially um the they're required to be a guaranteed deep restriction affordable qualifying unit. That is why I think we gave them the addition the additional density bonuses there. So they would have the um ability to do 75% more total than what the underlying zoning is, right? 70 75. Thanks for correcting that.

70 and 60 technically. Yeah, 70 and 60. I think it's 50% of the senior 55 would be 60 and then the moderate income would be 70. That makes sense. Okay. Are you guys okay with keeping that in the code or do you want to I'm okay with it. Okay. I feel fine with it. The only thing I'm not really fine with is I don't know. I don't particularly want projects that are all one thing. Yeah. But for me like I want you know when we put in these affordable project like some of the problems we've had in in the town and the reason why there's like this

black cloud is some of these projects are all like qualified tax credit you know folks that really need a place to live which is fine but I think they would be better served mixed throughout distributed the market rent units. So, I think maybe if anything we should make it a percentage to say, you know, we'll give you because I think the way it's written is probably allowing them to just do a moderate income housing project, which in some situations may work because

like River's Edge, I think, is more dense than this would be even 170%. Depending on what depending on wherever that you're talking about. No, I'm just talking the town home component. Yeah, because I think they're 30 units to the acre to my knowledge. At least what they had originally planned. I don't know if what they changed it to be. Yeah, I don't know. But uh how are the 55 plus areas doing right now as far as we only have one that I know of in the community and it's it's completely it's completely filled. Okay. has one too and it's full. The visionary home one north of uh Yeah. by the hospital. Yeah.

Yeah. There's another apartment project over there by Ridley's that's also 55 and older. But I mean I think they've been fine. But that's the hard part is they're so hard to put in unless you have some kind of a like multiple stage project, you know, just because just by itself it's hard to put that many units to make a pencil in a Tmont market. But if you had some town homes and some small homes and some medium homes and some retirement homes, you know, I think it it works. So maybe add an amenity so that there's a mixed I think. So well the example of that visionary home one to me I mean that's near me so I can go through there all the time. It looks like a pretty good mix and Oh yeah of the different types of housing there. Yeah. But but they

but you're talking about move so that they're because there are groups within that development. Yeah. what I'm talking about. So, what they they did market rent units. So, they're like traditional like rent to any old any person that qualifies. You know, these are talking about like deed restricted that says, okay, they're going to they're going to rent at a lower than market rent rate to folks that have a lower income. Yeah. Lower income or some other ailment or health issues or something. Um, and I think that's good and we want that and we need that, but it should be distributed through the visionary or any other project so that you have a demographic that might

Yeah, you have a whole bunch of people the uh the neighborhood. Yeah, I think it just I think it allows them just to fit in better than than having a whole project that is just dedicated to Okay. I didn't Yeah, I didn't understand that that was kind of a rent control. How do we say that then? Because I don't I don't know. I mean, maybe we just say that the max it can be of any project is a certain percent of the projects. Yeah.

You know, just because, you know, I think that would help because and I think most people would do that anyway. I don't think I don't know. But like you look at Barber Valley Apartments, Crown Village, Asheville, the one over here, they're entirely this. Um, and I think that is some of where our biggest problems lie.

Yeah. Okay, I've got those notes. Okay, I'll take those and and then I will do some red line items and I'll bring that back to you at another at another thing. Most of that thing I've gone through that any questions on the PUB calculator. This is what I give every developer when they want to use the PUB over overlay and it helps me to to figure out the max density and where they're getting their bonus density. And then that's something that public should know so they can see. So my question was on the opening space. Why did they not get any points for it where they do if they fill it in? Um this is just where is it? Like

well 15% is require 15% is required. So that was anything. Yeah. Anything additional then they get extra points for. So they did the they did the required 15%. So they don't get any extra bonus points for that. I didn't know the 15%. Yeah. I see that's kind of if you if you remember we went back so the land use plan our whole target was to try to get open space. Yeah. And to try to get nicer looking buildings and to get parks and trails and amenities, clubouses and all those things. And so that's why we'll give you density, but you've got to create 15% of open space at least

at least just just bare minimum. So on the note it says that the minimum of 15% of the development has to be open space and they can have up to 40% of the development for open space and then that's and then that's where the sections found.

Okay. So if they would have had 20% then they would have got five points or however many points is aggregated and then as you change these the the yellow boxes as they change those then that's what changes their their density. If you notice, they only had the 37 the 37.5 under generated bonuses. That's the percentage that they can add to their total density, which is the 293 units. Does that make So the 37.5 up there is it's a percentage of all these. When you add up all their points right here, it adds up to 37.5. Yep. Okay. I like it. Got it.

I thought you had to meet 50 points. That's the max you get. You don't have to. It's just a percentage. So if they meet 50 points, then they can get they can have the maximum but they have to do things in order to get that. So and they have to agree to those things. So okay. And then that's up to DRC and them to make sure that they meet that code. But it's really important for you guys to understand the code so that as we approve it, we know what we're doing. What is it? What is a pump track? That's for bikes. That's what they call it. Yeah, they call it a pump track. Um, it's like a bike trail or something. It could Yeah, it could be. Or it could be like just a trail park or it could be it could even be just an even a flow track for for for bikes and stuff which is going to be used up there.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is this Didn't they put one in on the way over to the highway? Yeah. By the vineyard. Not in Tmont. Logan. No, I'm talking about on the way to um Dewey Bill. I don't know. There's one. I think it's probably a private one. I'm just saying it's there. No, I've taken my kids to they have a really nice flowchart just in the middle of a neighborhood in Logan and I've hauled my kids on bikes and taken them over there. It was a lot of fun. I feel like that's something we could have here because you just need land, you know. Yeah.

And that's the idea. That's the tool of the PUB overlay and that's the that's the benefit of it that if it's just zoned regular R12, we can't require that of developers to do that. and and they and but when you do the P overly they can do that too. So well and the vision is trying to get the master plan because they have to have five acres minimum at least to do it to do the PV at all. So it's going to have to be a fairly significant plan in order to do it which then helps us fix a lot of the problems with the area as well. So I like it. Okay, we have lots.

Okay, moving on. Presentation 4B. Upcoming legislative items overview permanent discussion of landings applications anticipated proceed through legislative process one zoning map amendment reszoning application parcel 51 17344 located north one north and 1650 west.

Okay. I have before we move on I have these in your packets. I was going to send you home with them so that you guys could look at them throughout the week but these changed so much that I decided we're just going to keep with the digital. This is the only one I printed off because this is just a concept. It's just a concept and it's not in this for formal state. So rather than printing off a bunch of papers of the other ones that are coming up, I decided we'll just keep them in digital form especially as we're going through these preliminary stages. Um this is just a discussion and so that we know how to move forward and I'd like to invite the land owner up here to kind of discuss what he wants to do. Um do you want me to explain some of this stuff or do you want to go for it?

Uh will you do the zoning map? I just wanted to go over the zoning map. Well, I'll let you talk about your project, but I want them to see the zoning first. Okay. So, if you go into the zoning here, sorry, it's right I'm going to use Do you have a pointer? Where's the pointer? Here it is. There it is. Right there.

Okay. So, if you look right here, right here. Here's the part right here. If you notice, part of his land is already RM16. And something that we've talked to him about is extending this and making that this whole strip RM16 which would help with and then and that's just so that you can see what what it's currently zoned and then we can then you can go ahead and tell me your vision of what Christine can you point to sorry well I don't know if you can it's right behind motor it's right here and then this is this is already RM16 on his own parcel right here and then this right here is what is RM16 you see kind of just extending that all the up to. So they have R and 16 right there. Okay. Okay. All right.

Am I good? Yeah, you're good.

Okay. So, I'm Tyler Far, owner of Faru Homes and Stag Investments. Um, we got this piece from the Buchanan family. Um, we closed on it this January. I've been working with Jeff the last year or so, and I can tell you I'm very grateful I met Christine. um because a few things and Jeff was a really nice guy. He was very helpful. But um after meeting with Christine, it seemed what he was portraying to the city what we were going to do here, it's kind of not even close on what we were actually going to do. Um so we started he had me submit for reszone and he told me kind of what Micah what you brought up earlier is why you reszone this to RM16 when you don't need it. Well, we submitted for this to be RN16 because Jeff said, "Oh, just submit RM RM16, then you can do whatever you want." Um, obviously, we don't need to do that. Um, our vision for this project is I don't want to create four 500 doors of the same product. I want a diverse community that meets multiple needs. So, I mean, my idea is smaller single family homes, some duplexes, town homes, some apartment apartment living, and kind of make a nice community that fits a whole bunch of needs. Um, and it's probably more discussion to have with Christine to actually see, okay, to accomplish our goals, what kind of zoning we need. Um, I do know for us to put apartments, we want to keep them along I-15 right there. Um, like Christine said, we do have a chunk of RM16 already, but we would like to extend that all the way to the north to keep those apartments along I-15. And then everything to the east of that road is going to be 1650. Um, and

it'll eventually will connect to a thousand north according to what Jeff and my discussions through the last year is that that furniture is going to go all the way to Thousand North. Um, through the Price Groups Grand Theft Northwest that's going to do some industrial stuff. Um, but yeah, that's where we're at. Um, we're pretty easy. I usually work with the cities because it's usually easier that way. Hence why I've just done what Jeff's recommended us to do along this process. But I'm glad I met Christine because he was saying we were going to put in all fourstory apartments and that wasn't even true. So yeah. So my recommendation as I've been looking over this project is to zone the RM16 along that strip then keep the R110 and as he as he gets closer to completion because we're still very phases he could apply the PUD overlay if he wanted more flexibility to bring in the town houses or the other kinds of things. Um that would be more congruent with his vision of this plan as well. Does that makes does that make sense to you guys?

So did you get the wood piece as well? I wish he won't sell it to me. I've tried with Byron with Byron. Yep. Because I because I guess that's going to be the So we have a policy that's 44 max units on a dead end road and this one's already like a 100. Um so you're going to have to get an exit out of there somehow before you can do anything. So the idea So we've been talking with the price group according to them. They think that they're going to start maybe this year end late this year. And we're not, it's not like we're ready to start tomorrow. Like that's why I was just making sure he's just trying to get his preliminary.

Yeah, we're just trying to get all our ducks in a row. I mean, if everything lines up, we're hoping next summer we start. So, we're not chomping at the good to go. So, yeah, we've looking we've looked into that. Um, um, working with the price group kind of seeing where they're starting so we can join those roads. So, there's an in and out from the south. Most concerned about Yeah. Just because we're already echo that concern, you know, that is

defin threetory apartments against the freeway with the looks like a garage a row of garages in the back of the property on the yes the rightway sound walls. Is that I mean is that going to be a problem in the future? I mean with apartments I mean we've got those or those forplexes to the south of where you want to put the three story apartments with the freeways elevated there. It's like like I mean they would never be able to put a sound wall tall enough to protect those homes.

I think those those threetory apartments are your best bet unless we went higher but it' be hard to do it a garden style. Well, I don't want to go fourth story. Um, we got to go to commercial code then. I know like in North Salt Lake, that's what they've been doing though. They've been requiring, you know, higher just to try to kill the sound for all the neighboring unit. Well, you know, those apartments are going to kill the sound for the rest of the neighborhoods, but they're going to get the sound. They're going to get the sound. Yeah. But that's why they use them as buffers for that exact reason because the apartment buffer less picky. It gets started and calming if you live by freeway after a while.

I'm dead serious. Then you go somewhere else and you're like where's it becomes like it becomes. Yeah, it does. One one thing that I will say in the depths of this project that I like about this is our land use plan says that heat multif family housing in the urban core. This is more closer to the urban core than any of the other the other places that have been being proposed recently. So, and when I met with the central the central um district, the people there, I we kind of talked about this a little bit and who the NPI the the citizens in that area. Oh, I was going to ask you about that. Why one of us should be on that should attend those meetings? Great. That would be great

because it's it would be good to know what is happening and bring that back to this committee. Yeah. you you're all you're all supposed to be in charge of a there's four districts and and Jeff has you guys all a part of the district. It just hasn't it's failed to mention that to me. I don't know anything. It was probably it's it's still getting it's still getting um getting we'll get you the information on when I will get you the information on Perfect. Thank you. Let me do this. Where do I write my notes? Okay. Yeah. You want to make an assignment or how are we going to determine who want to go?

They're already assigned. I will I will get you guys information and then I'll tell you which days that they meet on. They all have one Wednesday a month to meet on. Okay. Oh yeah, that'd be great. I'd love to know about those. So what So right now we're just having a discussion about what you're proposing. Have you got far enough with the engineering that you know exactly what you want to propose? We met with public works and everything last Yeah. last summer and it seemed like everything was going to work. We've had some discussion with the price group because they need to gravity feed their sewer to the south.

And so there's been talks about how our mainland's going to have to be an upgraded size, but very vaguely. I mean, our main deal is okay, where's our zoning? What can we do and start at? So, is the price group north of the Y all the way to 10th or Yeah, they're just west of the hospital. They got like what 80 acres, I think. It's a big section and I've kind of seen their concepts. It's some big stuff. Big big and all the drains will go through that area. Are they going to go to the east and down southwest or um they'll have the sewer will have to flow south.

The flu is going to have the sewer is going to have to flow south. Um but I know that their exit on 10th is important to them because of the freeway entrance. Um so yeah, just very vaguely, but we got to start here before we can get to the nitty-gritty. But it just seemed my discussion with Christina Christine it just seemed what Jeff was presenting what we were doing was totally different than what we actually are. So, she recommended it be a good idea I come here and then get the zoning set. Get the zoning set so that we can figure out exactly what we should

because I have to figure out in order to make if you want to make just that partial change if we have to create a new parcel and then and change the zoning there or if we I I think that that's the only way to do it is to create a new partial number with the different zoning. Uh they can just do it with the legal. They can just do it with a legal. Okay. They just need a legal description that says, "Okay, from here to here is is that zone?" We have a ton of them that cross parcel numbers. I don't think that's a big deal. We just have to have a legal description of what's what so we could translate it. So, I mean, our goal is to be able to get on your next agenda with all that. And so, you're doing a PUD or you're not?

I think is a PDU and a PUD overlay the same thing? Yeah, we were we were just right now pres presenting that I still have to do public hearing and public notices just for the zone to change. Well, because well and I guess yeah, if you're going to do a reszone Yeah. And that's what it would be because because it's zoned R110. So this is just to bring should we um just a discussion so that I can put out a public notice for a reason for the R16 to extend and that's going to and just bring it to you so we can discuss it could be on the agenda for the next for your next planning commission. But are you going to extend it and include the town homes to the north as well?

We would just leave that you leave that as an R1 10 for now because we don't have the we don't have the preliminary stuff for the PUB overlay yet. I haven't done the YouTube calculator or any of that stuff yet. So, is the thing you were talking about the property owner you were talking about these Yeah. between the golf course and this development? Yeah. Firewood. Yeah. And there was actually another owner that owns a little sliver in there too. Shel or something? So, will those be houses? Where are those? Whatever that Yeah. Rectanging. They sell to you eventually. Yeah. I've I've had a few pows at firearm and I've tried. Sure. So,

but he just says they're not interested time. So, yeah. Well, I better get on board. I mean, you're getting I'd love to. Next time you buy propane, please my wife. Sure. Okay. Is there any more Do you have any more questions before I'm on moving forward? But so I guess at this point then it's just a potential reszone application that wouldn't necessarily have all of the PUB stuff with it. So not not yet. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate your time. Okay. Moving on. B3 zoning map amendment single family residential transition overlay.

Okay. This is Cloverfields and um this is this is they they brought me back. Okay. All these items are scheduled to be make decisions on next week. So, okay. This is just this is just information in two weeks. You mean

in two weeks? Yeah. The next time you meet. So, I've included in there one thing I didn't do. This is my concern on this project or something that I want to know. We're using this PUB overlay that is in our code. It's a transitionally I don't even know where it came from. It's a single family residential transition overlay zone purpose, but I've read through this extensively and what it does is it allows for them because they're next to a commercial district, they can have 4,000 to 5,000 square foot lots, which are super um and but they have to have 25% of 5,000 square foot lots. So, looking at you can go back to the the um map, please. Um, I forgot I was going to highlight where all the 25 where all the 5,000 square foot lots is. He does have the right percentages in there.

And I can probably do this for the next when it comes up, but I but he he this is this is the one where you have the two property owners.

And so they were worried about having 25% in one lot and 25% in the other law. And I said, "As a city council, we should be able to apply the 25%age to the project as a whole as long as we have agreement from both property owners." I'm still I still think that's okay, but the problem is is if the project doesn't go through to the bottom and all most all of the 25 all of the 5,000 foot lots are on the parcel below, I think. And so it's not dist distributed proportionately throughout the project. And I I don't know how to fix that. I don't know how to address that. You could look at the next slide and you can see most of those lots are 4,000 square feet. And then these are where you're going to find some of your bigger lots down here on this on this end. I think he needs seven I can remember the math of 5,000 foot lots and I think he has five in this one and like two in the other one. So as long as you're okay with approving it as a hu a unit together or if we need to make adjustments that's what I need to ask.

Now wasn't that our Yeah. idea. Our idea was that this would be together. Yeah. So, and so I'm trying to go with that. So, to make it and to make it easier for him to just to say, you know what, it would be really hard for him to figure out, you know, 25% on this parcel and 25% on that parcel. Let's just do it all as one big project. Yeah. But originally when we did it, they were just going to do an overlay that didn't necessarily have a 25% limit. So, what do you mean the overlay? They were just going to do a traditional overlay like we've always done in the past. Okay. We've never done a 25%, you know, transitional overlay. This is the overlay he said he wanted me to use and this was in code. So, I was following all of the all of the all of the references with this. So, this this is what he's applying for. It's different than the PUD overlay. Yeah.

And so, this is just what he was going to use. I don't ever remember approving. So, and they're happy with it, but we should go back and identify because I don't ever I've never had the discussion about that. We didn't have a discussion after that. I I don't know where it was originated, but it is in our code. I I've looked under and he meets the requirements of this overlay zone. So, well, it should be fine. Okay. And but we can just do it as a phased. So, if one wants to develop before the other, it's no big deal, right? We just do it as a phased overlay, but the zoning is approved and the roads required to go through, I think, was the main vision. Yeah. So proud of them, too.

I know they they agreed and got together, you I think it's great that they've come to this point. Both land owners have called and talked to me personally. So, so, okay. So, that that will be I'm scheduling a public hearing because it requires a legislative process, a public hearing and letters will be sent out and all that um this week. So, that that that will be coming up. Okay. All right. Then the next one is the zoning map PV overlay or this one. This is the one that um this is where it is. Um it's currently zoned mixed. Mixed use. Yes,

it's currently zoned mixed use. And then um I had a really long discussion. So this is this is where I think maybe I'll interject the difference between planning commission's duties and then the city council's duties. I I discussed with the fire department some issues with this, but if it our job as a city council, as I've been talking to people, is to make sure things meet code and then if it follows the land use plan, if it and and having an overall view of what is good in accordance to the land use plan. If the fire department has issues and the police department have issues, I want to bring them to you, but they also know that that's a city council decision on whether or not they approve based on their concerns. So, I'm h I included the letter from the the fire the the police chief in your packet

um that I gave you, but that is that doesn't really have to do with our land use plan. that has to do with an overall development from the from the city. Does that make sense? But as more more people move in, don't they get isn't their budget increase? You know, like if they added a thousand homes, like wouldn't they get more police officers? Not necessarily. It sounds And it sounds like he's getting mixed signals. You know, the city wants to reduce the budget by 1.5 million, but yet increase the population by

the problem is is he's not necessarily getting allocated more. He needs to be getting allocated more money for and he probably would be a better expert to come talk to you about and answer that question. Yeah, it just seems like a thousand people paying property taxes would be a lot more money. They don't usually it doesn't usually pencil out for them to actually um res to to actually to pay for those services and it hasn't in the past. And that's what he's getting at is even though we're getting more people, I'm not getting more of the budget. He's not getting more. That's definitely not true. Like the city's budget for the police and the fire has gone up like 10 times in the past two years. And it went from likeund and something to over a million. Yeah. And that that's where that's not our job to decide.

No, it's not. worthless. I mean, this should be brought to us.

That's exactly that's exactly where I was going with this is that is a city council thing to discuss with the with the general budget. Um, but it is my job to make sure that they know what the development's coming in so that they can have that they can they can discuss that with the city council. So, that's that's where I I realized that after I put those packets together that okay, I'm still learning I'm still learning what my my role is, but I won't be bringing those things from the police to you. I might bring some fire issues to you from the fire department. Sure. Okay, because the fire department, the biggest thing is on this one is the fire department is concerned about and this will be an engineering thing and you guys can but he he sat with me for over an hour and talk to me about his concerns with this with this proposal. Go to the go to the next slide. He was saying with with all of this they have um you have to have two egresses with this many houses. That's just code. Where did I put it? Okay. You have to have two egresses. And I'll put it right here. This egress right here, he's concerned about getting his There's an egress right here. That's public land that he they can use. But getting his What kind of truck is it with a with a big Anyway, he bringing this truck in here. He doesn't think that it is adequate that he can make these turns. And even if he gets a truck in here, if he has a fire along here and he blocks this entrance right here or in here, it there's not enough space for him to get two fire trucks to where if there's something over there and over here, he's like, there's just there's not enough room right now.

That's a little problem I And so the fire chief and um he talked to the county fire marshall and the state fire marshal. He actually got him on the phone. They said they would need another access point over on the west side. and he said the only way to do that is to borrow onto the freeway. And he's like he's like there just isn't enough space right here because because these roads are so small that they have to have fire lines on there and to get another fire truck around it. He just is he what is the dimension there on 10th the opening the between the freeways? I don't know. It's like 100 yard it's not very 176 plus Well no that's not that's the other footage.

Yeah I don't know what that is. I'm actually meeting with this developer. Um, this might come through because because we did have I guess a past fire marshal say that this might be adequate, but we I don't really know after talking to our current fire and him doing that. He was he was concerned about the safety issues there for these people and it's already it's zoned mixed use right now. It's not zoned. They want to change the residential and then they also want to use a PE overlay at the same time. And what kind of density are they proposing with that? Um there's like 350 houses I think there these these are all four places right here and those are single pieces

hundreds. So this this this is something that may or may not make it out of out of DRC guys. So I'm just giving you a heads up so that you know what's coming. Um and but it might you might not see it on the agenda because I'm meeting with DRC tomorrow with them on that. So like it's 300 ftish. Yeah. A frontage. Is there already a home in in there? There is a home. There's two or there's two homes there. Two homes there, but one's further back and one's up front. Yeah, the further back one isn't reflected on these plans very well. And so and so that was a concern, too. But you can see the little outline right there. There's a little square of it. Yeah, you can see it right there. Yeah. Oh, right there. But anyway. Yeah. Well, thanks for bringing it up. Yeah, on the other thing to consider, but

yeah, when the other company had it a few years ago, Dr. They had two entrances on the main road and there was a traffic study done and in order to do the in order to do this kind of density there needed to be a turn lane on 1000 that was something that they needed to have because of the bridges too. So there's still a lot of kinks being worked out, but this is another thing of like like they like it goes from multif family use to single family residents to the PUD overlay and and and which something to simplify the process when we bring you a zoning change with the PUD overlay. We can do it at the same time. They just have to be two legislative acts done at the same time. So,

well, no, it seemed to me that the DRC when they look at this that they're going to almost want to have a a western exit. They are, but I don't know how it's going to go. We're going to meet with them tomorrow. So, I just wanted to give you guys a heads up. That's all that that this is for. So, yeah, there's power lines or something there on the south side of that. I remember they were going to make that a big dog park. I think there's a power line. I think they come around to the outside. Well, I have it right here. Yeah. Yeah. It's like you have to be out. Yeah. There's big huge power lines right there.

If we're looking at land use, this is something that you as a as a planning commission could look at like instead of saying this is what the developer wants to do with this land, what do we want to do as this land? Right now it's I think a IFA store there would be great with maybe 20 houses with larger lots because and then and then or like a port you know like not that that's my decision but you guys have the zoning laws. It's zoned mixed use right now. I think that that it's appropriately zoned for mixed use for the re for the safety reasons of of the city. And that's that's something that that is up to you like what what should this be used for? like the fire department had no problem with a a retail a store being there and some light or some light like commercial even light industrial something like that because they could get in there and adequately serve that a lot better than all those smaller streets of the houses. So So that's that's my finding on that one. Um hey I think I think that's all I have. Oh, I did want to I did want to tell you. So, I am making public notices for for your information. We didn't talk about this. Valley Vistas will be put on I will as soon as I send the public notices out. I'll be doing that this week. I will also send you a copy of the concept plan of Valley Vistas because they are wanting a PUD overlay and that's up on radio heel. That was item two that we took off. But that will be on for the for the 28th on your agenda. the central district reszone application that the gentleman Tyler was here that will be on the agenda for a decision and then you will also be doing um if the Tmont project this one comes out then that will be on the agenda as well. There was a lot to discuss and I didn't want you guys to have to hash all of that out in one meeting and I that's why this meeting I felt was important for you guys to kind of get some details before I brought that and you had to make decisions on them. Okay. I won't be here in two weeks. So,

okay. Andrea Rol and we'll

Well, good. So, Ashley and Micah and Jack, I hope you guys pass on the information you learned here to and I'll send the information out as soon as I send a public notice out. I'll try to get make sure I tag you guys in and say this is what's on the public notice so you guys know what's going out. Okay. Well, and I don't know um I I've seen this done in other areas and I don't know what you guys feel, but um a lot of the other like meetings that have have potential issues require some form of like submitting a notice like just before the meeting. This is hey, I have a concern. These are my concerns. I want to speak. No, no. From the public just to so that we have an idea of how many are going to speak, what their concerns.

When we send a public notice out, when we send a public notice out, they do say if you have concerns, you can contact Tiffany and to be put on the agenda. Well, and remember in last meeting we had that thing like you had a different layout than we've ever had and it talked about people signing up for comments will be the first priority and that was really like that made me excited. So if we and hopefully we will get people that will do that because we've had so many people interested in what we're doing now. Well, yeah. And then if I have three decisions that all have public notices on them, you guys are going to have there's going to be a lot of people here that are that might have

Well, and that's what I was trying to get at was trying to get at the like we can try to make them sign up and quantify what their, you know, real issues are and then okay, because for me, like we talked about, I would love it if they would say yes, I want to speak. Here's my issue and here's my resolution. You know, sometimes all we get is complaints and we need more ideas on how to solve some of these issues rather than just tell it when we know what the issue is. Like, yeah, how can we solve it that will satisfy their issue? And we're hoping that because I'm getting the we're getting the information out to the NPI that a lot of that discussion can be done at the NPI convenience. That's the only format that we can do to have that. We have to allow this open for public comment too. Like people

Well, and I want them to comment, but what I want to know is I want to know what their solutions I want to encourage them to tell us what the issues are so we can be we can do our own recon before the meeting before the meeting when they sign up and it would be really cool if it was like two lines about what you might want to address and so that we can be ready with information concerns that you have and do you want me to put that in the public notice then when I send out the letter? Good. I mean and then have like even a QR code that says submit your submit your responses here. I don't could even be just like a Google form like that we send out. I don't I don't know. Yeah. Um well, I could have a QR code to a Google form.

That'd be perfect because then they could send it email it to you. Then you could forward it to us as part of the packet saying, "Okay, hey, this is what we have. I mean, we got 14 people that want to speak because we may even want to adjust the agenda depending on how many people are going to speak about what." Um uh because for me, I mean, if there's one topic and we have 14 applicants that want to speak for that thing, we should move that to the top and try to move it along so they're not having to sit here for three hours, you know, to get angry at us. Exactly. Just to make it even worse, you know? Well, hopefully they're not going to get angry because I'm hoping to get a lot of a lot of the issues out with the the meetings that they're having independently. Well, who's giving them this information to solve their issues? Like who's

they're just getting I've been attending some of the meetings. I won't be there tomorrow, but I've been trying having a meeting tomorrow. The west district. Oh, no, the Yeah, it's the west district for Radio Hill and that will be the um they're talking about Valley Distas and Overlook, but Overlook isn't even on your agenda yet because there's still some DRC stuff that has to be done through that. But that but and then I'm attending answering the questions I can. It's just an information only thing. It's not decision- making. All right. Sure. I just wondered who was going to where's it at and what time? here at 7 o'clock, but I'm not running that. Um the the the chair,

the chairperson of that district is running it tomorrow and then they communicate with me and or the city planner eventually. It'll be the city planner too of these are this is the information we have. This is all concept. If you have questions and then if you have concerns then it would be nice. That's the perfect Google form. Give these to you guys so that you guys can do your homework and then you can address them as they come. I think it would be good because in my mind like it's so hard in my mind like they come up and they they you know spill everything that they have concerns about but it's not really a forum where we can just answer all their questions. That's exactly that was the frustrating thing for the public.

Do you know what I mean? And that's the problem is we don't know their concerns until they get here and then it's not really a forum where we can answer their questions and so they leave like even more frustrated when they came. But if we knew what their issues were, we could actually work to try to have you all somebody make a presentation answering their questions prior to even the comments. So with the meeting, the the the FBI president or the the people who are in charge are supposed to create like a two to three minute report where they come and say these are the issues that we had and then give that report to you. But we could have them give it to you before the meeting if that would be helpful too.

Yeah. Yeah. That would be fantastic. Just the more information we have about the issues, things we need to, you know, research to be aware of, you know, it's going to be better for everything, the more we know, the sooner and preferably before we get to the meeting and we're making a a decision today. You know what I mean? And we can't like it's just not a forum where we can you can answer. Yeah. We can't answer their questions that day. Yeah. Well, and that's and that's the whole trying to transition things is because you've been you it's been expected of you guys to be informed, answer public questions, and make a decision all in one meeting. And that seems very very not fair to anybody, not to the public and not to you guys,

right? So, what we ought to do is we ought to get those assignments, whoever's supposed to whoever's part of that meeting that's supposed to be the meeting for tomorrow, and then we maybe even ought to send out that if that person can't go, we ought to know what's going shift just because we need the the liaison from what was addressed in the meeting and what their real concerns were and then we can try to make sure that they get to hear without having to have another meeting for them to explain the whole thing over again. Yeah, real concerns were I think Andrew is in charge of the west if I remember correctly. I will get that out to you tonight. So, I will get you

maybe see if she can go if not one of us can go. Okay. But I mean, whoever's over the district would probably be better and could try to build a rapport with, you know, that group of folks. Okay. Does that make sense? Just so you know, all the meetings are on the on the website like on the upcoming events. Oh, they are. Uhhuh. So, they're all got nicely updated. How do we know which one's which? It says west or I know, but Oh, if you click on it, there's a map. Does it show a map? Yeah. Oh, it's not it's kind of hidden, but new. Oh, I have a big map that I was supposed to put out here. I didn't get that. Um Okay. Well, yeah, send me which one I'm supposed to look at because yeah, for some reason I didn't get the memo. Okay, I will get that out, too. Okay, moving.

Thank you for further question. You mentioned Overlook. Which one is Overlook? It's up on radio that we talked about. Valley Vistas, isn't that There's two of them up there. They're all in the same west end of the Crazy. All these subdivisions all have the same names as existing subdivisions. I think it's bad. One of them's Heritage. We already have a Heritage. I know. The other one is uh Tmont. We already have a Tmont. Okay. We should make them make a unique name. They're so confusing when we have So, overlook is this one right here. Right here. And then this one, Sally. This is So, those are two two um developments that are coming to this area and they will be discussed tomorrow night. Is it the same developer?

No, they're different developers. Yeah. So different concept plans, different, you know, they're they're they're totally different. So that answer your question, and we've had a presentation on you have. So one,

they've made some changes and some updates to what you saw last year, but they and this one is one of the ones that's going to be they've gone farther along the engineering process than some of the other ones. So that one, the PUD and the development agreement will probably come in at the same time just because they've already done a lot of work. and they've been working on that for a year. So, we're probably going to get both of those at the same time. That's actually what I'm working with them right now. And that's why they're not scheduled to see you guys on the 28th. They're scheduled on the next one because we still have some details to work out with the development. Are the developers going to jointly do the water? Do you have the water tower line and the irrigation? I saw that. You saw that one? Yeah.

Yes. I had a meeting with um I had a meeting with the overlook developer and that's where the infrastructure is. They um if you show the water table line there are three developers that need these water towers to finish part of their development if she can get that. Do you not have it? Did I delete it? Maybe I deleted it from there. It's just barely above the current development is water. So there's a water there's a water there. I know there's the name was missing. Oh, sorry. Yeah. So, right here, right here, this is the city can pump water all the way up to this this this dotted line right here. Okay.

So, they don't need water towers until they develop higher than that. Okay. I remember them saying that. Yeah. Um and so the PUB over um the development agreement and has to include that that needs to be incorporated, but they're they're planning on on going in together with these two developers and then another developer who needs it for stuff that's not even annexed yet. And so we don't have we'll have to go through legal to get that all developed, but that's all that worked out. And that's hard to understand. Exactly. Those two developments.

Yeah, that that will be tied into the development agreement on that. And then the other thing that is a big topic up there is the improvements on 1000 North, the rest of them. And and the the the prep, there's still negotiations going on on how to to incorporate the improvements on 1000 North that I I can get you information later on. Um it's not been spelled out in the development agreement yet. And so, um, I don't I don't know. That's I'm not that good.

Well, the proposal I don't mind saying the proposal because I really I do I do appreciate the process that goes into all this and I'm still trying to learn all the legal things, but the overlook how it was presented was um we get the if we if we get the density, we'll provide the infrastructure. Well, they want to use the impact fees for that project and use that to be reimbured the impact fees to put to put the sidewalks in on 1000 North, which I am totally fine with because the impact fees as long as okay with public works, maybe they we need that we need it somewhere else. But if those impact fees are reimbursed for the work, it's it's just the developer getting paid for doing the the the work, which is fine. But to to gauge that based off of density requirements can be a little bit, you know, misleading depending on how you look at it. So

what do you mean? Well, be misleading. Well, if they're saying that they need the density to to put the infrastructure in, but they're being reimbursed for the impact fees. The density should be a separate decision based based on do you know what I mean? Like because they're getting paid for that work. They're not they're not the density is isn't dependent upon whether or not they put the put the sidewalk in. depending on I guess if they have to upfront it because that was the issue over at River's Edge was the developer was required to put it in. So he's got to essentially carry the interest on it for maybe 20 or 30 years. You know by the time they build it all out and get the full reimbursement the interest alone for the improvements might be it might cost triple to do the improvements 30 years later. Gotcha.

So he would have to carry that cost if they're required to do them initially but be because they might not get reimbured for 20 years later. Is that what you're saying? They might not ever get reimbured, number one. And if they get reimbursed, it wouldn't be for many many years later because you only get it at the impact fee level, which it might take them 5, 10, 20 years to build out. Who knows? Yeah. And so that's where we've got to talk to legal and and to to figure all those things out. And I didn't have all the details yet. Yeah. But in my mind, that's why they probably were saying they needed some reimbursement there because just the like I And I'm fine with I understand using the impact fees to improve that area. That that totally makes sense, right? Yeah.

Yeah. But so like I did this exact thing on the project over here at Tmont Center and I had to upfront 900 grand um for the city and then ultimately we had inflation, you know, kick in and essentially slaughter the money that the city was going to reimburse me with. You see what I mean? Like the money that I paid was now worth half when they reimburse me plus the interest that it took me I had to carry for 10 years. I still have, you know, money out, but you know what I mean. So there's costs there even above and beyond what the actual reimbursement would be unless interest and inflation is calculated into reimbursement. Seems hard to do though.

It could be done, but it would it would be a more all the calculations that we did didn't include those things. Yeah. So then it it's a a big cost if you calculate it with 50% inflation over the past 10 years or whatever we've had. United States. It's expensive. Yep. Okay, moving on. Thank you for your presentation and everything. U we'll move on to the public comments. You guys have anything you want to uh comment about? You got three minutes. Come up and state your name. Introduce myself. You got to come up. You got to come up. Yeah. Give us your name. Say anything you want.

Not anything. as long as it's positive. Um, so my name is Aaron Stit. I'm one of the owners of 83 Tmont Street. It's right across the road from us. So building right in the corner across from the post office, the preschool one with the roof that's caving in that one. That is correct. Okay. Roof came in. So it's a big project and it and it needs a lot of work. We have some very big dreams for it.

Um, for sure. One of them is a daycare and then a residential unit above that. And then that corner is really, you know, um kind of open to the whatever's the, you know, the newest whim of my partner or something that works for the city. So that's why I wanted to come here, meet whoever it is I need to meet. Um we found out that we're we're one block away from the new from the RDA. um line. So, we're getting so close, but uh so I don't know if there's a process for unless I'm wrong.

Well, what did you what were you meeting with the RDA? Well, from what I understand, we went to the uh to the big meeting out at um I don't know what it was. It was like a big Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. barn or something. Um, we would like to put in something with some outdoor dining, like a European style. My partner lived in Germany and France for uh five years and just got back and has a lot of a lot of ideas. So, it'd be very cool. It could be a great, you know, it would definitely be a place that you would see people out and eating. Um, so you know that's and if I'm right, some of the funds were going to go towards public kind of eating spaces. So, but I don't know if again I thought it was outside of the district or outside of the line.

But if I walk away, we need food. We would love to bring some. You don't love the three places we have.

Yeah. So, it could be a place that may this isn't like you know what we're imagining is um you know really in the lines of like uh a bakery that you'll be able to see uh the bread being made and everything else that that we make. Um and it would have sandwiches, soups, um kind of like a great harvest but probably more food selection than that. And we really want to have it uh so people could watch while it's being made. So like a window there, a big window. So, and then yeah, outdoor seating. Um, right now it's it's a building with the roof cap. So,

are you hoping to like extend the seasons? Because that's the other thing. I mean, I feel like in Europe they do a lot of eating outside when it's cold, but we do not. So, we would. Oh, yeah. Well, I'm just saying most of us don't. We absolutely good heaters out there. It would. Yeah. We have we'd have outdoor heaters um kind of like the ones that uh I grew up in Huntsville, so Snow Basin always has these these you know the big uh kind of canopy outdoor heaters and that's what Yeah. Yeah. So it' be year round um outdoor eating. So yeah, it looks like it is outside the CDA. Oh, I say CDA.

Yeah, technically CDA. Yeah. So anyway, I don't know if there's a way to to ask for an extension or or anything like that, but we we'd love to present our plans for it. Um see if we could figure something out. So yeah,

does the CDA just go main street just like that? It kind of there it kind of meanders around whatever the whatever Sean considered kind of the commercial buildings that would be potentially part because we tried to budget essentially facade improvement grants for basically the entire main street because the vision was try to leverage the improvements in Tmont Center to try to help get funds to do massive facade improvements on Main Street. But it does kind of go just a smidge, you know, up and down street. Yeah, it does. Just right outside of it. So you were wanting to see if you could petition to be or essentially annex into the that zone.

Yeah. I don't know the process of that but I think the taxing entities would have to all sign off on it like the school district mosquito baitman county following but possible I don't know. Um can I get with you after? Yeah, I'll Yeah. So, and I will we're hiring a full-time planner next week, so it won't just be me in the planning department and we'll be able to get back to you and follow up a little bit sooner so I can get you like there's so many things that I follow through the cracks because I just have so much that I'm doing. So, I appreciate your patience and then and then I will be able to get to you too, right? Yeah, it' be great for you to fix it up, clean it up. It's a big building. I don't know. It is.

I don't know how the parking is going to work. Well, we've got the parking in front and then on the side as well. And then there's parking in the back. Um, and there's a lot there's an open lot uh on this side of the road. Um, yeah, the parking we could we could expand. Isn't your neighbor does your neighbor own like American Title or something? And they're making the improvements and they're trying to do the drainage. So, they're going through a process right now to improve the drainage behind your buildings so that there could be more parking back there. It is Am I correct? Talk to him. Yeah, I know that. Yeah, he's coming into the DRC tomorrow. Okay.

So, if you want to come at 9:30, he's going to be a walk-in at the end of the meeting and he's going to talk to the DRC about making improvements behind your building so that so that there's not a puddle of water down there and then it can actually drain. Right. Great. Yeah. Okay. So, 9:30 tomorrow. tomorrow here and he'll be at the end of the at the end because it'll be a walk in so you don't have to come right at 9:30. Come like at 10:15. Okay, great. Yeah. So, great to meet everybody. You'll probably be seeing more of this. Perfect. What was your name again? Eric. Eric. Okay. I'll give you my card. Okay. Thanks, Aaron. Any other comments? I'm serious.

Perfect. Thank you. Moving on then. Uh, do you guys have any other comments? I don't know why they don't have our comments on there, but uh Oh, usually it's your reports, huh? Yeah, usually we have reports, but Oh, it tries to do that to us. It doesn't actually let us Did you have anything we need to bring up? No, I noticed uh I'm not sure exactly that, but I was going to take a picture, but I forgot that there's a there's a spot over in Homer East Estates that has like massive weeds overgrowing of the sidewalks. You're talking about by my house? I don't know. Not on day.

Yeah. Um I actually super funny that you came you actually came up in that comment. Oh, really? Yeah. So my neighbor was like, "Should I comment on that?" And I'm like, "Well, call the city. They may not do anything yet, but log it." And then they and then they took care of at least half of it that day. So we're giving them a little bit of grace right now. Okay. I haven't seen it. I just It just I mean I saw last time I saw it, it was like getting unruly. Yeah. It's like hard to walk down the sidewalk either. Maybe I'm not Yeah, we need to talk about the actual place, but Yeah. Yeah. Now that we got the sidewalk connected, feels like we should keep it open. Yeah, maybe we're talking.

But anyway, that was just that was just a thought that we should put some pressure on somebody whoever's supposed to deal with that. I was maybe thinking Greg Horse School could do that. Of course. You want to talk to Don't give that to me. We won't you have enough. Good. Did you guys have anything else? Do you wanted to remember anything? I can't think of anything necessarily. I think almost everything I've thought of lately is like getting tied up in a bow almost. So, feels nice. Good. Okay. I entertain a motion to adjourn. I motion to adjurnn. All second. Motion in a second. All in favor? Yes. Yes. Yes. Look at that, guys. I've always wanted to do that.

That limited you, was it not? We've never had one. I've always pounded my hand. Remember?