Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

I vote that we approve the minutes. Can we approve them both at the same time? Yes. I I read both of them. They looked great. I vote to approve the minutes. It's been moved and seconded that we approve 3 point or 3 A and B. Is there seconded? It's been moved and seconded. All in favor say yes. Yes. Yes. All opposed. Okay. Thank you for that. Point four training presentations. Uh we'll go over 4A discussion only administrative and legislative duties. Presenter Christine.

Hey, I want to first thank you guys and tell you I am super excited. I got hired as the new zoning administrator for Tmont City and I'm very excited to work with you guys. the zoning administrator's roles are the day-to-day enforcing the code and making sure that the city's following following our own laws and the state laws, the city's laws and the state laws. So, I'm really excited. They are the city is still working on getting a full-time planner. I'm just parttime and so we will be working together with you very closely. So, I'm excited to create a relationship and to work with you guys um on a more intimate level, I guess. Um as far as the training goes um we are going to I have a side pres presentation that we will go through if you have questions discussions would be a discussion would be great. Um I didn't have anything for you guys as far as like administrative or legislative like and we didn't have any business that what we were ready to present and uh they mentioned that you guys need to get training hours. So this will count as a training hour. We decided to make this for one day. You get need to get like four hours of training. So this will be one of the hours. Does that make sense? Okay. Um, how many of you guys have one of these books? I put them out. You don't take them home, but that's kind of what we're looking at. That's this everything that is on these slides, I pulled from this book and or this Utah State code or Tmont State Code. So, those those are all my sources. I didn't reference them all on these slides, but anywhere like almost everything is word for word from these. There are some times I I started referencing them. If you want me to reference, I can find references if you need if you need references in the future. Um, the first thing I want to go over is actually on page 18. Um, you can go to the next slide. There's a there is a little chart that goes over I found this very helpful for me and these are as I'm um as I just feel it's a good you might know a lot of this, but it's good to go over the basics anyway so that we can kind of all get on the same page. Um

the the chart just says what what the difference when when it comes to land use and and developing land use within the city. These are the different players. You've got the elected the elected and appointed citizen planners. You've got professional planners, neighborhood and third parties and applicant property owners. And all of these people have to work together to create the land use development. And so the central um you guys as planning commission would be considered citizen planners. And so that is your guys's job. I would be one of the professional planners as a zoning administrator. So I'm here as just to coordinate, give you guys information and take and receive information to kind of relay information back and forth. So that's kind of a just a little um add any questions on how this works.

Are you still going to do the like community? We're working on I'm starting to delegate off to the community. I will go and facilitate at the NPI the community things like be the liaison for the city but we are in the process of getting heads of each district to create the executive committee so that they can take more of the the ver the weight with that as far as but I will still be involved until we can get a different you know there's another arrangement we can do in the future but I'm very grateful for the citizens that have stepped up that are helping but I am still going to be a liaison for them too. Yeah. So, if you go run by me what you're doing, what is your role, your title?

The zoning administrator at city. The zoning administrator takes care and make sure that we're following zoning. So, I'm in on when a developer comes in and and gives a gives us a plan. I have to make sure that it meets code and then I'm in charge of administering at DRC. So I will I'm just the the point in Tmont that people come to kind of like a check to make sure that they have met code and that I am the liaison to get all the information to where it needs to go. So you work with the inspector. Yeah.

So when Jeff was here, he was the city planner and the and the and the zoning administrator. We didn't have two. We're going to be having two. The zoning administrator handles the dayto-day everything enforcing code, how it is. as a city planner helps to plan out in the future. And so they we will be working together. They'll say, "Hey, this is what I want to do." I'll say, "Hey, yes, yes, or no. This this goes within code." So that's kind of how those two roles are distinct. It's good to have the separation of powers there because then it's what can we practically do right now based on what our code is versus where are we going in the future. Okay, does that make sense? And then I'm the code administrator. Yeah. So then I if we need to add to the code or change the code or let me go through

or if we need something piped to the court then but you know it need to Okay. So are you still code enforcement? Yeah. Yeah. So we we work together a lot. So we're we're part of what the title may change but we're part of what would be the the former planning department. And so this is Fremont and we're now starting to reform, you know, what's going to be the kernel of the new plan. So is Jeff still working or no? So every third party contracting the planner at this point? No, we're not. We don't have a planner. We don't have a planner. We've got me coming in

as much as I can. How close are we at determining a new planner? Close. We're we're doing follow-up interviews on Friday. How many finalists are there? There are two or three finalists that we're looking at. I know two for sure. I don't know them personally, but I know that there are two that that that the that they're I'm not in charge of hiring. So, do you know they're from Fremont? They are not to my knowledge.

Yeah. But I know Well, I don't know. I actually don't know like where they are actually from but um but they have a back they have education in planning. So but there were like six or seven applicants and they were all really good from what I heard. So okay any other questions? Okay if it's all right with you. I've kind of done my training to kind of go through all of these and I figured if we need to to go longer on one thing we can versus like 10 minutes just for administrative versus legislative. Are you okay just to kind of flow with just a training? Okay. All right. So, uh next slide if you want to go we'll we'll jump in. Uh as far as legislative and administrative, a lot of this is for public too because I think this is a public meeting and it's good for the public to understand this even if you don't even if you already understand all these things. But the legislative um duties of sorry I'm going try to get my here there's a difference between legislative actions and um administrative actions. And really legislative actions have to do with the anytime you're changing an ordinance amending amending to an existing ordinance adoption to the general plan it anything that's a major change whenever the like at the very last point right there it says whenever a fundamental change is made to zoning regulations and I'll talk about zoning regulations in Utah code in just a minute um or a specific property zoning status um it it will require the applicant to um to go through the legislative process if that makes sense. And so that's uh the only a body of government Utah state code says that only the body of elected officials can make legislative decisions. And so that's that's important to know because that's that I love how Utah they give cities autonomy to be able to govern the way that they want to govern. And so

they they give a lot of what's called legislative discretion with um legislative decisions. They're a lot more strict when it comes to administrative decisions. Administrative decisions, the city has to have a lot more proof to defend itself versus legislative decisions where you have a lot of discretion because you know the people, you're elected by the people. And do you guys have any questions on that? So, as far I was under the impression that we have administrative and legislative, you will have you will certain in certain obviously. Yes. But everything legislative has to come through you. So that's where the bulk of your time will be spent is with the legislative matters. Not every finalized with city council.

Yes. And finaliz the administrative or anything at this point to say yes. Yep. And I don't think every administrative not every administrative action has to come to you guys if the but um just because depend because administrative actions are the day-to-day things that the city does and so but there are some that have to be approved by the planning commission and the city legislative is basically anything that's from what I understand is like what you're what's manipulating code. Yeah. anytime code is

or or the if you think of it as land like dirt because it's land development. Anything that changes the way you can use that dirt or what you can put on that dirt versus like density or or if it's going to be a commercial or if it's going to be whatever it's going to be. Whatever changes the basic function of what that dirt is used for. If it goes from agricultural to residential, whatever is going to change that dirt is going to most likely encounter a legislative decision. me tag something. Yes, go ahead. Um, write this down and you can do your own research on it. Um, the question I'm gonna throw to you is Utah a Dylan's rule or home rule? Dylan is in the name Dylan.

Yeah, Dylan like the name Dylan and then you'll have Dylan rule and you'll have home rule. you I'm gonna kind of end up answering this, but um what Christine was kind of mentioning, Utah is unique because there literally is only two states in the the United States that do things the way Utah does that. And so Utah's is one happy blend. It actually falls under the Hudson rule when you really go into it. It's more home rule, but it's not really home rule. So the reason I'm challenging you to research this is because you'll learn more when you're reading up all of the different versions that are out there. The reason I'm telling you this is because in your capacity, it's real easy for people to move into the the state or in the area and say, "Well, I came from Colorado and Colorado does it this way." Well, the reason we don't do it like Colorado is because Utah, the way all of this is put together in your capacity in this is done the way Utah does it. And so Utah doesn't really do it like anyone else. I believe the other one is South Carolina. I'd have to go back and look. We literally do all of this our own way for the way the legislative process works for the way we do code for municipalities and all that

for example like if you have a building code and you want to build in California they have state standards that every city has to meet right in we have some state we have state standards here too but they're not as strict and rigorous and they give cities more so a code inspector is going to have to learn a different code for Tmont versus Brigham and a different code for different different municipalities and so we really get to shape what we want our community to be like and I love that. I love that we and that's your guys's job when we go over code is to make sure what do we want the laws to be in Treeton.

So not too long ago though I mean and I didn't read the full article so I can't really speak to it but Governor Cox was talking about overwriting some of this on a governor level which really dispels the only reason we're here. Right. Um right.

Have we heard anything lately about that or no? most of that got it's still influx um for the to do a generalized answer to the question um but there's a huge embodiment so case in point I think was Clinton and don't quote me on that but you had different little cities and if and the procedure benefits the smaller communities than the larger communities because now you can tailor make what we need the way we do things in Dmont's obviously differently clear those But when he made that announcement, yeah, you had a lot of communities come forward saying, "No, no, no, no. We don't want to." But he was trying to streamline that because they get inundated with so many complaints on how code is done and how some of the stuff is put together.

All the little towns right around Salt Lake City that are all bumped up against each other that have to deal with different code and different rules. It's like, you're all in the same city. Why can't you just marry the code? It's like, no, that's you can't do When I go to a code training, it's a it's a happy that's why we do it monthly is because so much changes as one year goes along and everybody does it slightly different than everyone else. So,

so that's why I have the full-time job of figuring out what is our code and how we are how should we be implementing it so that we not only are protecting our citizens but protecting the investments of the developers that come here too because we we need to make sure that they're they're protected as well because if you do something that's not in a code and an alliance, if it's not done in the correct order, the procedural order, if you don't mail out the letters, if you don't do the public notice or if you don't do those different things, those things can can void and null and put a developer at risk as well. So we want to make sure that we do we are fair to our citizens so that they have a due diligence and then we also make sure that the developers are are are protected as well. So my job is not to decide either or it's just to make sure that we follow the rules. Okay. Okay. So that's a legislative action. Um next slide. Um so pretty much if a decision affects what can be built, how much it can be built, how much can be built or how land can be used at a fundamental level level, it's legislative. So we already know that. Go to the next slide. Now, administrative actions. When the council when the council planning commission board of adjustments appeals authority or their staff administrates and enforces a legislative adopted plan ordinance, they are administrative or quasi judicial acts and they are not entitled to the same difference as legislative acts. Pretty much they they are held to the law of the city the city's codes and the state code. So, it's it's um it the courts are a lot more strict when it comes to to enforcing code that's already in if if we do something that um varies from it, we don't have as much legislative discretion. Does that make sense? Like we have to we have to follow and that protects property rights, property, people's property rights and their owners. Okay. Any questions on administrative decisions? It's working within a framework. So like

say like you have a development come in and it's zoned R112 or R18 R18 and yet they they want to come in. We can't tell them they can't put like well but we want halfacre lots but it's quarter acre lots and we're and we can't deny an application if it if they are meeting all the standards of the code. There's that that's because it's already in place. You're not changing anything. You're not changing the land use. you're not changing anything around it. So, they can come in and they can build as it is currently zoned. And if we as a city say, "Nope, we're going to deny that application because we don't want it and we're challenged," the courts are going to be way harder on the on the on the city.

So, if we use the example of what we legislatively quasi legislatively did over the um the radio hill development, the overlook. Yeah. Yes. They haven't met all the codes though either. So like right because we started we changed the zoning. Yes.

But then going forward have they met the requirements and they would that's where they're wanting to do a PUB overlay and that's where we're going to come in. Since the PUD overlay changes the base density it is therefore consider and that's that's one going to be one of the next things is where does PUDS come in all of this? Okay. Because that's that's where there's a lot of questions and so do you want me to answer that now or you can wait. That's fine. As long as it's coming because I have a whole slide on how on how all that fits together. Okay. Yeah. If a developer comes in, buys land that is already zoned at an R10. Yeah. The city can't say you aren't allowed to build on that. Yeah. So like the city can't stop.

It depends on what they want to build. But if they're building, if they're building on the correct like whatever it's already zoning, following the same code, if they're following that code, the city can't like they have to approve unless there is there is a caveat. If it is if it is if it is shown that it is going to hurt the city because we don't have the infrastructure or the public utilities for it, then the cities can deny or hold a permit.

But we have to really be able to prove that. Yes, that that's that's the thing that's is we have to be able to city prove we do not have the capacity for this for this development right now and and that's where you can get into moratoriums or that's where you can get into different things like that because the city is never the city will never be required to approve things that's going to hurt it financially and and other ways. Does that make sense? Yeah.

But like if it's already zoned that way, we can't just say, "Oh, well, we don't want growth, so we're not going to be able to build it." Like we have to approve it. And that's where we're going to talk about public clamor in a little bit because you guys deal a lot with public clamor being on a legislative end. Administrative people we hear they hear it too, but that's where we're gonna we're going to come into that. But you're exactly right. We have to have our you have to have a lot more. Oh, here I'll show you right here. This is exactly what it says actually. It says with legislative uh with an administrative decisions will be upheld if they are supported. Okay. If you make an administrative decision and it's like saying I can't we can't develop this. They will be held upheld in court. This is on page 39 if you want to look. If they are one if they are supported by substantial evidence in the record of the decision. So they have to have substantial and and do not violate federal, state or local statutes, laws ordinances. So that's where your substantial evidence is. But legislative laws in court they will be held if it is reasonably debatable that they advance the purpose of the land use regulations which are outlined in the land use development and management acts. So pretty much for legislative decisions it just has to be reasonably debatable that this is going in the direction that the city wants to go. Okay.

And that's like anything that's approved by city council. That's any legislative thing. I've seen and that's the three things that we're changing. That's my end, her end, you know, in the in the zoning conscript and the planning act. It literally falls into that caption she just wrote.

That makes sense. Okay. Okay. Next slide. This is one that I did just for you guys because um you have a lot of when you're taking in comments, I would hope that you'd listen to them and then decide this is listen to the public and listen to the people, but then decide is this a is this a is this a legislative or or an administrative decision. So this is and this was on page 39 and page 53 if you want to look at it. But on page 39, public clamor and do you guys know what public clamor is? itself that Evelyn and it's just people that are talking um in administrative decisions legislative decisions um okay uphold the existing land use or ordinance codes therefore sorry that was just an introduction this is what I wanted was public clamour is not substantial evidence like you were saying um and an administrative decision cannot be based primarily on citizens comments at a public hearing petitions or social media campaigns so if you have a public person then they have it zone for commercial and they have their house right next to it and they come in and they're like, I want residential there. If it is currently zoned there, as much as they say and it's an administrative decision that you cannot that weight cannot you have to have substantial evidence if you're going to make a change there. Okay. But when there's legislative decisions, this is where you you guys use your judgment. It says um legisl uh they decide if the proposed plan or change to the plan promotes the general welfare of the community as they are legislative acts. Public clamor and informal opinions are acceptable considerations in enacting local and land use regulations. Oppositions by citizens may be noted by the council members of commi council members of commissioners and they may base their decisions on public support or comment. So, that's that's something that I hope you will take as you as a tool for you to use as you're in your in your seats because that's your guys's job and

that's part of when you go back to if you go back to the um slide two. Go back to slide two. If you look at that, if you look at how we all interact and work together, you've got that that's their that's the public's duty. That's their job is to come in and comment to you guys. And the developers have the same right too. And so, that's something that that you definitely have. So we all work together in that capacity. Okay. So we're balancing whatever makes the most sense based on

for the community as a whole. As as if you look into the definition as um elected and appointed as citizen planners, your job is to look at things as a whole and try to figure out where do we want to go as a whole. Okay. So this is what I would like to have happen as the zoning administrator. Something that I think is really really going to help. We need to get the land use plan. We're going to start working on that I think here pretty soon. What slide were we on? Okay, we are on slide

six, seven. We kind of already went to the over that. Um, I'll say one more thing. So, this is just a this is just a graph and it's on page 20 26 if you want to look in your books, but um it just it just shows and explains that you have more discretion for legislative decisions versus administrative decisions. And one of the one of Kate Li says in building the plan we have that's why we're gonna take surveys. That's why the whole gam we can pick

but you can't but if you're going to change the current zoning based on the plan then you still have to go through legislative processes. You know what I mean? You can't just all take a plan and then change the zoning. you can put in the plan, this is what we would like to see happen. And then if the zoning changes when it comes up, if it's if it's supported in the plan, then that's more that that gives you like, oh yeah, we're going in this direction. Okay, does that make sense? Does that answer your question? I I'm trying to build on what what ends up being administrative decisions because like for example the the we we reference the land use plan as almost authority

so and it's and it's actually super helpful when we can do that. Yeah. because then it's then it's not so much of hey we're up here just arbitrarily making choices that affect your life. It's like we actually and and I and I feel like this has been part of the conversation in in the past recent past um and it's trying to decide when we made the last land use plan and and what exactly the parts of that plan were updated or not. And it's you know you know people calling for update which I'm totally fine with. I'm happy to update it because it needs it. Yeah.

Um but as far as when when the plan is made, it really to me depends on who's up here and whether or not we just say we're going to accept this plan as the rule. We can't and and obviously there's variances. There's little things like we just had that gentleman that that we ended up changing. We we went totally against what he was planning, right? And it was for the better interest of what we thought the city would would like and that was an administrative

call, right? How to apply that. Um, and those happen. But when you know the more the more I guess what I'm saying is it helps to have that land use plan so that we can make honestly less administrative decisions. So well this well this actually the the next chapter goes into if you want to do a land use plan and do it right, you will follow a plan. And there's a quote in here. I don't have it right here, but um it says what cities kind of tend to do is they forget the plan and they deviate and they shoot themselves in the foot if they do that. It doesn't say that exactly, but they kind of that's kind of what it say. That's what happens here.

Yeah. And so they it really says they stay on on track of the plan. And one of the things it suggests doing too is when you go and you make a deviation from the Lann use plan, accompanying it with an amendment. So then that you're to the Lann use plan so that we know this is why we're amending the plan. Then you're always referencing back to the plan and which is also where the PUB even came into existence because we kept amending and amending and amending and doing all these different things. And it's like why can't we just have a standard give you here are some basic generalities that you can work with framework

then we don't have to amend the code every single time you come up with a different idea. here's some here's some variances that you can we allow under these circumstances and and I don't even think we've seen the whole that that whole bit play out yet. Yeah. Which I'm excited to see. I think there's going to be some good good things that came from what we used to do which were individual agreements for every single person that came in here. And it's like gosh, how do you keep track of those

and justify yourself later when someone else can't get what they want? Well, you have a different council that is a little bit stricter than the other council. You're right. You're absolutely right. It needs to be standardized. The idea is is a developer can come in here and they look at our land use plan and they say it's zoned R12. Then they plan on they plan on developing R12 and if it's and if they need a change to that zoning, then there needs to be an amendment to the our land use plan so that we know why we're so we can tell the citizens and ourselves and we can remind ourselves why are we deviating from what we currently have here. Does that make sense? We had this zone here. Why are we deviating from it? So, um, and that's and if you want to use a PUD, then that's something that we have to know. What are the parameters of the PUD? And we'll we talk about feeding in a minute, too. Okay.

Well, I was just going to say in general terms, you're an advisory board to the council. That would be the legislative process. Yeah. And a lot a lot of times that will get blended together because how this functions and so that's the other reason where NPI and all these you know the different outside sources coming in to give opinion and suggestion and different things are so sentinel to the process is because all of that gets added to what we're discussing in here and putting together in this and then you guys make a decision on that. That decision ultimately goes before the city council and they will create the legislative process whether they like it, they don't like it or if they want to have changes and have it come back to you.

Okay, I'm going to find I'm going to read this. I think it's good enough. I've read it enough time. I found I found it. The tendency when a specific issue looms importantly over municip municipal land use however is for government officials and citizens alike to skip the preliminary steps required. It is state law. We have to have a land use plan. So it is required to have a land use plan um required to understand the general plan and the related land use ordinance. Skipping such is short-sighted. The entire concept of local land use planning was intended to move from general decision-m to making specific lot decisions in light of a general comm of general community goals. Land uses decisions that avoid acknowledging such context are more likely to fail if challenged and more likely to breed cynicism in those most affected. So that is something that I hit me. I was like we need to have a plan and that was I really wanted to get on board um and help Truman create that. That's the whole reason I started the NPI is because I wanted to have a plan where we could follow and then we could we could work together better

which I was going to comment that's again building on that thread I was starting earlier with the land use almost being more authoritative. Yeah. Because once we switch out because it will inev inevitably happen like almost making the process of the land use plan coded for on our behalf. So it's like we can't deviate from the plan. I would appreciate that even more. Even the DRC would like I was talking to the the people at the DRC. They would love for us to stay with the land use plan and and if there's and have a very few zone changes, very few very few let like if and just have things go a little bit more just follow the plan.

Developers like that. They do and they they like not having the political side of oh we have to go to the planning commission. Will this planning commission approve it or deny it? It's like we shouldn't matter. Yeah. Just follow the plan and everything works. Yep. That's exactly. But there is some variation because 10 years ago, correct, plan for land use in Tron might have been a lot different than it is now because the housing market in Utah has completely changed and like that. So that's but that's coming from the top. That's not necessarily might need to vary between

and that is why that is exactly why the land use plan is a a solid guide, but the ordinances are what supports the land use plan. And so the ordinances are what we use to enforce the general land use plan. So the the land use plan is the guide and then the ordinances like the PUB ordinance that helps enforce it. But then also if we do need to deviate from the plan, that's why we should have an amendment so that we show why we why is there a deviation from the plan which I think is easily referenced if challenged. That should be it should be easy to understand, right? Like it's not 10 years down the road it comes to well now there's this new developer. Yeah.

Well and he's got more money. Well and he's going to plan on building you know this huge infrastructure and so we're going to give him this deal on this particular thing. It's like that's not necessarily a good justification for you know adjusting your plan. Yeah. It's like we still want different roadways. I'm gonna h I'm gonna pound that until I'm out of here. Like we've got to find a new way to get across this town. Y and if you can't stick to a plan because it's going to offend people when you have to drive when you have to build a whole causeway

across, you know, somebody's yard basically in front of somebody's house or behind somebody's house, they're going to hate you. Yes. They're just literally always going to come to you as their problem because but then look 20 years down the road that happens to be a piece of of infrastructure that makes perfect sense. But we didn't want to do it 10 years ago because it was it was hard. We're going to we're going to hurt people's feelings. Like when we could just say, "Look, no, we have to have because this is part of the plan. We've got to stick to that in some.

But at the same time, we have to be able to look at the plan and say the plan is going to be growing. That's we need to update it. Like we have to have it be ready but without but without sticking to a plan you end up with nothing. Exactly. So you end up with I don't know what to describe like you you know streets that don't intersect. Right. those the streets in that neighborhood that didn't run. It's like it's all of this is because we didn't stay with a plan and they were, you know,

so hands is the easiest way to look at this. And and when you talk about some of the dead end streets that we have, the reason we came into that, you know, in a couple of places, especially over here, you know, and, you know, the the southwest part of town, you didn't have all of the property owners on the other side. had somebody that come in on this chunk of ground and this met the criteria. Yeah. And this was the vision that they put together. We're going to have roads that are going to intersect with this. But the person that owned this chunk of ground that wasn't in on the idea didn't like that idea. And so that's why I say it's always evolving and it's a plan of motion. And at that point, right, we didn't even have the concept of it was a specific deal with that particular developer.

Exactly. And it's like you're you're of course your city is not going to have cohesive connection if you just make peace deal how we did things and go why did you do that that way? Well, we did it that way because that's how things were done and we were extremely small community. I mean, when you look at where we're at now, you've got you're going to have three dedicated people in what's taking place with this. And so, the whole format of what we're going hopefully doesn't change either. Well, I think amendments rather than changing the whole then you have that history. You have the record of what happened. See what happened and why it happened where now we don't.

We don't know what was built 10 years ago. We don't have those records. But we're in a unique position right now where we're going to most likely see some growth or it might level off a little bit. We don't know that like we don't know if it's going to continue to grow or we're going to find a leveling, but I do know that we have a lot of growth coming in. And I love that we can work together and we can we we can we have a lot of good things coming to us in the future as long as we have a plan on what we want to do as a city. And so, um, one thing that I do want to go with the land, like if you look at the current land use plan, um, even though the details might change, we can, yeah, go down to page 14. I don't know what slide page it is, but it talks about it says land use zoning, and there's a there's two columns. There's like a right there. Yeah. Um, in the current plan, there are already they have like uh qualities that we want that we want to define ourselves. Number one, these these are these are the these are the goals of our land use plan is to preserve and enhance Tmont's agricultural character, peaceful light spot and rural atmosphere using careful consider considered zoning ordinances preserving environmentally sensitive lands and providing high quality open space. Uh number two, concentrate development in existing urban areas uh commercial corridors and along Ardural and collateral route. So these are just some and then it has parks and trails. So, not to get into the details of the weeds of that, but to give you the idea that we have some certain standards, I was talking to Zach um before I got hired and I had a lot of people at the city talking to me. I had quite a few interviews and stuff and I remember Zach said one thing that really hit me that I really appreciated and he's like, "Tell me what is the core what is the core value of of Truman? What is our what is our slogan? What what is it?" And I didn't know and I don't know you guys think what is it? We have the pillars, but we but he said something else that I really liked. He said, "We're the city of connection." And when you take an overall theme like that, city of

connection. As I go with every developer, I'm looking how do we connect? How do sidewalks connect? How can we connect from one city to another? How are we getting trails? And I don't feel like we are really a city of connection yet. Like I feel like we are separated in different areas. And how do we connect as a city? And that can be reflected in the ordinances and the land use map is how can we create a city of connection because I want our city to be a city where we can connect and people can safely walk from their houses across the street to Genie Stevens Park where we we need to have um sidewalks and lights and we don't have that. So how are we going to attract that and what do what are we doing to make sure that that that comes into our city? So

or to the bus stop which is how you comfortable with us. Yeah, that is that is no sidewalk. The sidewalk that I believe Yep. My 5-year-old was walking on a dirt road and Yeah, it's it's important. It's important to have the city of connection. So, so that's that's something that's something that we can do as an overall when we develop a land use plan. I'm really excited. I did talk to um Kim is the one who submitted the application for the grant and I think that they submitted about $80,000 requested that from UD do as a grant to help us put together and revamp our and we haven't heard back yet but I will be calling and following through to see if there's anything I can do to kind of expedite that. I just have had a lot of educ to revamp what

the general land use plan. So $80,000 to like hire for for surveys. We have to decide you guys are the ones that initiate the land use plan. Do and that's one thing I was going to ask you guys. Do you want to go with Lamark Designs? Do you want me to call Utah State? The I know that they have a really good wellness um survey going out right now and they contracted out with Utah State. um tell me what you want me to do to help get that plan going and I will look into options. Okay. But I we were kind of waiting to see if we had posted on Traymont class but but we were we were get opinions from all over the state but

we've been kind of waiting to see if we get that grant so we knew which options we have available to us in the city. Okay. All right. So go back to PowerPoint. I think we're gonna give to PUBS now and where they fit up. Okay. This is the difference between uh um Yeah. Where? Yes, we can do that one. Did I skip one? There was one that we skipped. Yes.

Yeah, that's fine. We talked about that. Okay. Where does the planned unit development fit in? Okay. We've already talked about this, but this is my proof. This is and I gave you the Utah code. This is what Utah State code says. It says PUDS modify the zoning standards and the density. Um, where's my notes? I have a little note thing. Since it changes the base zoning, it is re it has to in some point of the approval process go through the legislative process. So whether it's all goes through the legislative process and you get the development agreement and the PED at the same time and it's already been vetted by the DRC and everything's good to go and then it comes to you as a legislative. If it comes to you in that package, there's a lot more pressure on you guys to approve it because there is a lot of work that goes into doing that. Okay. So, that is that is but it's still a legislative decision that it can it whether it's done at that end or this is something that I posed to the to the um city attorney that I'm still checking in on. do we do um a PUD legislative process up before with just a concept plan knowing the restraints of our PUD code so then they know if we can establish base density or not then they work out all the details and come back with a development agreement knowing that they already have the PUD in place which has less pressure on you to decide whether or not because there's been less less of a bunch you like the developers haven't invested and then we and then and so I'm still as a zoning administrator I'm still working that out with our current code and with our with our city attorney to see and the DRC to see where that would be. So, I would love your feedback on that where you guys would want that approval process to be because it needs it needs to be set in stone so you guys know so that you guys know where that approval process. Do you guys understand what I'm talking about the approval?

It would have it would have changed the last decision dramatically. Yeah. Because if he would have come with multiple options to start eight months ago when he said he started talking to the city, it would have been a completely different process. But he'd already spent a lot of time in, you know, and he came prepared with all the stuff that he had already done and then to backtrack. It's kind of it's like I I don't know what to tell you. I I feel like there's another way now that we have more details in this, you know, in the pie. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Go ahead. If our PUB is in our land use code or our land use plan, right,

then technically it's a legislative decision, but it's already been decided. Like we already made the decision that the PUB would work like if you want a higher density, you can use the PUD. That's already in the land use plan. It's not it's it's it's it's in the Elanus plan as a tool, but it's but it's also changing the base zoning. It's not attached to the base zoning. It and and that's where the confusion's gone in is it's it's just because they have an R12. And that's right here. This is this is code 1.3305. It says the developer may make an application for the consideration and approval of a PUB overlay zone. The city council shall review and approve such applications after receiving recommendation from the planning commission as with other legislative matters. That's right at the beginning of our PUB code. So, it sets it up for a legislative decision right at the beginning, but it's not attached to it's not it's not to say that everybody who buys R12 or R110 has that PED attached to them because it changes the base density and the structure of the land and it's supported by Utah State code and our own code. Does that make sense?

Yeah. I guess I've always lived by the rule of like you make the decision once, right? If you make the decision never to drink alcohol, then it's easy to not make that decision ever again, right? Because we already made that decision, right? So like to me it's like if we already made that decision or we're making that decision in the land use plan, then it should be easy for us to say, yeah, technically we have to approve this as a zoning change, but we already all know that this is the plan in Tray Mountain. Okay. So what's the difference of saying so what you're saying is is what's the difference between if somebody buys a property at R18 and but then we also have an R10 you can't automatically assign the R10 zoning to it. Do you know what I mean? So that's what is that what you're saying the PUD is R I guess I don't understand your question.

I'm just saying like if somebody wants to have that more density from the PUD right they can put in more things like having more land they can you know I mean they can do those points that we worked on for the year. Um, so then it seems crazy to say, "Oh, not crazy." Okay, it doesn't seem crazy. It's hard for me to understand how we can say, "This is our land use plan. We want you to develop your development with this plan in mind." But after the fact, we might say, "Nope, you can't do that because how is it in the land use plan?" Because it's part of the PD. But how is the PED in the plan? It's not part of the zone yet. So that's what I'm saying is that like we adopted that plan. We adopted the land. adopted it a tool. We

Exactly. Yeah. So, I'm just saying like I don't know, but it's not a guaranteed thing. So, this is what I was going to ask and this might dispel what we're doing. Yeah. So, what made me most uncomfortable about making the decision on overlook was the stuff that came with it, which is exactly kind of what we're talking about. We're changing it to a PUB so that we can get the stuff that comes with it, right? What I was worried about is are they going to get through the process and something's going to happen between me and the next person and all of a sudden they're going to decide not to follow through. But the reasons why we decided a PUB was okay and is that going to be stuck in some sort. Does that make sense? When they say they're going to build something, when they say they're going to

do things like that's part of their contract, but I worry that once they get past us, they might Here's I can give you an answer. Do you know what I mean? So with the developer, they are legally bound to uphold whatever is within the code. So even if they come and say we will do X, Y, and Z with a PED, if it's not attached to a development agreement, they only have to do what we have set out in the code. And the code has a calculator that says all of the things that that they can how they get their bonus density. Okay? And so if they get their bonus density, they don't have to add the extra water towers. Even if they say they do, they don't have to do all that unless they bind it with a development agreement. So I would

those water towers specifically are not part of a PUD consent. No, they're not. That's why they have to have those if we have if we're trying to request. So that's what would scare me. What what I think Andrea is trying to talk about is the the the functions of the PUD that are set. The points that are allowed set. Mhm. Like the point that I think from what I understand, you can correct me. If if someone comes to us with all of those things checked off, they have it Yeah.

set like these are the points. Here's how I fit it. They don't necessarily need a development agreement under the current statute. Is that correct? They they needed a PUD approval and there does need to be a development agreement. So even though they have complied with that in their plan, they still were required to contractually commit to that plan. Um like if it's part of code that if you meet these these check marks Yes. then you're good. Yes. Maybe that's the assumption that's wrong to make the legislative decision. But that's what I'm saying.

That's that's the point. That's what I'm saying. Like we already made that decision. So it's easy for us to just approve it because how did you already make the decision? It's just like if we've approved the PUD or we've approved the points, we've already gone through that. But the PU was approved in a board. It's an ordinance. It's not a it's not part of the general land use plan. So that's what I'm saying. If we're adding it to the general land use plan, it's like your question in my mind is like saying how would I add R12 to the general land use plan? Like it's like saying I we've already approved R112 so why would we not approve it? Like the PED is the same thing as R12. It's just a different way of applying density

in different ways of with different amounts of property in that section. I guess and I think what Andrew again is trying to say sounds to me like if because what what I'm hearing as well is that the PUD is not part of a plan that is codified. No. So that's where I think we're trying to to marry those two that if if it is codified that you can just you come to us with with the plan like the eight months in advance. Yeah. And you can show us this is where the points this is how it fits.

Then why couldn't we make it part of the plan to just cut? So you're saying basically more. So you want to so you're saying why can't we take I think we're operating under the assumption that that's already that's already processed and that and that's that's why we're having this training too. Okay. And maybe that is where we go forward right city council approved. No they approved a zoning a year ago. It was a zoning change. Well there was a I'm I I guess what good is the PUD? like why?

Okay, that's a great question. Why would we do the PD? Because the PED allows deviations from um what like R110, they can only do a single family house on a 10,000 foot lot. But let's say like they want to park or we need or we need park space. They can take the same amount. They can take and cluster the houses in a different way. They can have it gives the developer the ability to be more flexible with what they provide. this the city but we have to but they also will use it to get as much they they'll use it to do they can do lots of different things with the PD if we need an open park in an area but we can't have it we can't we can't have it with the current R12 because all the houses have to be spread out a PUD allows maybe a townhouse in a in a in a single family residence house so if you have a zone for single family you can't put a townhouse there but a PUB would say you know what we can put a townhouse here and then we can have a park, but that's up to the legislative discretion. So, the PUD, some people, some cities don't do PUDs because they're they're they're a lot of work. And

so, it is in the code on the city website, chapter 1.33 planned unit developments. So, that's where I'm confused because I know that we like it went there was a code. There was an APU code and then there was and we made it. We made it, right? But there's there's also there's also zoning code in there. There's also a code for R12. There's also a code for R110. There's standards that you can do in all of one of those. So it's just like one of those codes. Yeah. But um and so the PUB is the same thing as an R12, R110. It's it's just another zoning tool for the city. Does that make sense? So did that answer your question on what good is a PD?

Yeah, I think so. If it doesn't, it's okay to say because we're having conversations that so it's going to you want you want to hash you want to hash out that are outside the scopeability of what's already been put there on the plan. So I guess you're trying to decide if people should bring it to us in the beginning before they spend a lot of time in engineering and money and

and then I would want to educate you on the code so that you would know exactly what they can do like so you would know okay they can put in this section of land with the current zoning they can put 100 houses if we use a PUB this is the basics that you need to know they can put 150 units and then you would know that that's the maximum they can do and so I'm trying to pin down the PUB code so that you know up ahead of time this is how it can be used and then we will let the engineers and the DRC negotiate all of the details so that when it comes to you in a package at the end they already they they already have that base code that base density established whether whether they can do it or not. But what's happening is they're going through the they're doing that at the end of the negotiations and it's and once the developer comes and they've worked with the city, gone through multiple DRC meetings, multiple meetings, and they have a lot of investment, they're expecting it to be approved because there's been a lot of work put into it up front. I I argue that it would make sense that they need to know first if they have the pe so that we avoid frustrations from both parties because you're going to get a lot of pressure from both sides if you wait till the very end. You're going to get a lot of residential pressure and you're going to get a lot of pressure from the developers as well if you wait till there's been a whole bunch of work put into it.

But with that, I wonder without an engineer looking at each case, some things probably aren't possible. Yeah, we would still have to go through like we would still have to go through water is an issue. Um culinary water. So we're or sewer capacity. I would we would still go through as of any development say is the city capable like kind of like a soft a soft um uh check to see are we capable of this of this density and if it's if it's something that's possible and cap capable if you approve the pe first then then they have the ability and I don't know I have to actually talk to the lawyer to see you might have to do both at the same time I don't know but I want to know what your preference is because to me it this is something that's been weighing on my mind a lot. So, so if you guys have any suggestions as I talk to the city attorney on this process, if you would rather have the PED approval done up front or at the very end with the development agreement and the PD at the same time, I would love to know your thoughts on that.

It seems like though you give someone a soft approval and then in the end you give them a no, it almost makes it feel worse. Like their hopes got really high. That makes sense. Yeah. Okay. And I think one of the reasons that they didn't do that for is because legally if they come to us with a an idea of this is what we want to do and we say yes or no, whatever, we can change the code before they actually do something. Not once the application's been put in, they they they they're able to or am I wrong? Yeah. Once once they've been a once they're going through the process um and they have an application put in, then they they go based off of what the current code is. Okay. I was thinking that was the thing with the slaughter house a couple years ago.

Well, I was going to say there it there's different applications for different things. So again, back to kind of what I said. It some of this gets generalized because of the e and flow of what it's going to be and what they're coming to you. So, if you really think about it, you guys have overseen this past year alone stuff outside of what we thought would be our growth pattern or what we thought we wanted in different areas of the of the city. But you've had developers and people coming into you with an idea saying, "Well, what if we did this? What if we did that?" And that's what's messed up our process is because we've skipped out of what that was supposed to look like because who knew we'd have the growth that we had in just five years. And so where Christine's kind of going with this is what application would you guys like to see for that process? What's going to simplify it for you? What's going to, you know, where's the happy medium on both of these where we can bring this together?

The base the basic and it might come down to what the attorney says, guys. And but the basis right now that I want to establish is that the PUB is another legislative decision. That's the that's the main thing is the PD is has to look at the legisl and once they you know you can get a zone change but then if they want to use a PV they have to apply for that as well which is considered an overlay. Yes. That's where we've we've we've kind of that's what I was talking about that we it is part of the code but it is it is applied on top of yeah the election but any overlay code

and any overlay that changes the basic function of the land use still has to go through a legislative process which is and again coming back to that that other thread again trying to make this process codified is the is the goal and that's where we're like, okay, PUDS make sense. It gives them flexibility. If they come to us with the PUD overlay in mind, we already have the base zoning. We don't need to change that. We just say what's allowed in that PUD, put it on there, and boom, you're done. You're approved. Yeah.

Because you've you've met all of the criteria that we've hashed out in meetings before, and we've talked about the you know, and we can change that. Maybe that's where uh you know part of planning the land use plan that comes into play is that maybe people don't like the PUD. Okay, that's fine. We can change that.

Let's say we have one still though because that's that's when it's easier for the developer when they come to that first meeting and they see well normally it would be like well what should I prepare for? How many different directions can it's almost like you don't have guardrails? It just explodes. I can do anything in the world. It's like no no no no no here's here's the base unit or the base whatever zoning we have allotted this PD overlay

come come come prepared with things to check this box and heck yeah we'll start from there and that's what I think again that part of the process uh I feel bad I really do for for the gentleman that that went through all the work only to have us be like, "Well, you said there was potentially one other plan." Yeah. But we weren't told about that. Our fault. No, but that's the point. Had we been involved up front, we would have been able to say,

you know what, let's see a couple of options before you spend, you know, $10,000 on plans. And I plan to do a very good job of giving thank you guys big heads up like at the end of at the end of the meeting I'm going to give you just a little heads up on what's coming up at your next planning commission meeting so that you don't have to just get it to the night of and then you know where we are with the with the legislative process on that. So

awesome. See, to add on some of this, that's been the frustration that we've had for years is the dynamic has grown, but we haven't grown with the dynamic. And then we've lacked the ability to grow with the dynamic. And now we're trying to get that dynamic put in place. So, we're going to have our growing plane paints as we're trying to put the Lego blocks together. But I'm excited to be working with, you know, Christine on this. She's got a strong passion for this stuff and I'm excited to see who we get for our plan, which again means you can't go anywhere for at least 10 years, right? Yeah, that's right. That's right. Okay. As long as you understand the commitment you've made, we will all get out of here. Just My husband's ready to retire and let work full time.

So, I do have one concern that kind of has to do with our land use development plan. Um, and maybe this was you asking where we're going to get our information and asking these things, but I did talk to the mayor maybe within the last two weeks about our water issue and the stuff that we've already had that that is already currently in the process of even being developed. And and it's like we just don't have good numbers for approving more given the fact that we don't even know where our numbers are with our water. And and then the other problem, and I'm not this I'm not bringing this to you. I'm saying I'd like to be educated in how to make this decision in the future because if if water ends up being our boundary, that will definitely play into it. But um when it comes to these huge developments that we're getting down the pipeline, people spending so much money and us having water be the constraint, that's a huge issue and not fair that we've gotten everybody spending a lot of money and we don't have those numbers yet. Um so I'd like to know hopefully where we're going with that. Um, and if that can be our a constraint to slow things down all across the board right now, I would be happy to use it because there are still a lot of houses that are for sale that aren't selling. And it makes me wonder why we're approving so much development with all of these numbers that the state is giving us about where we're growing, but we're not why are these houses that are already built not selling? And I'm not saying they're not. And they're and I'm also just saying it's interesting. I mean, we were in a position where everything was selling really, really fast. I don't expect that to be the case anymore. But I do expect those houses to be moving.

And so us planning more development doesn't always make sense. And if we need to slow it down with this information, I I'd be grateful to do it is what I'm saying.

Yeah. And that's something that I'm going to be working. We've kind of actually slowed a ton down just with the transition there. You don't even know the list of people I have that I'm supposed to get get back to because there's a lot of people that were that were working. And so, and right now we're on hold just as I get caught up on stuff and until we get the city planner in and then that will give briefing time for the the um uh Carl to get us better numbers on what we need for because water is would water would be a substantial evidence on either an administrative or a legislative decision. Um because water is very essential for us to make sure that we have culinary water. So,

one of the things that was frustrating for me is to hear that report we got a few meetings ago that we have four or five wells and only two pumps of work or whatever. And uh and if you know and we're we're dependent upon you guys on the administrative side to screen that and when it comes to us, we hope all of that groundwork has already been done before it comes to us for approval.

Yeah. because we have to have confidence in that aspect of the process. Yeah. And to kind of tag on to that, you're going to see more with the DRC meeting involvement on Christine's end with that and more input from the department heads to get the different information put together on that to better, you know, let this go along because that's not the first time I've heard that very complaint, you know, of the worry from whether it's people, you know, out in the community or, you know, people that work here. I've had like department different department heads outside of public works come and ask me just that exact same thing. You know, it's great to have a new million dollar million gallon tank up on the hill, but where are we going to get the water to put in?

Yeah. Right. And a lot that's why I say a lot of this we are we're in this fun little growing pain transition but we are we're putting this together and it's as this gets put together it's going to be considerably considerably smoother process with a lot more you know information being able to get out there to everybody especially coming out of the DRC meetings. Yeah. So, um, what I'm hearing is that you're potentially going to have a resource in the DRC meetings that is intimately aware with things like water. Well, it's all there now.

Okay. and because you've got all the department heads going over all of that. But in summary on some of this stuff, because we didn't realize what the growth was going to be and so some of this it we haven't we haven't like I don't really I don't really know to to say we haven't stuck with the process is the correct thing to say or whether to say we've been inundated with people that want change outside of what the city's plan was that we put together some 20 years ago for the you know for the initial you ideas for where the city was going to grow, what the growth potentials were going to be. But then, who knew that you would have the growth that we would have in the state of Utah alone, let alone up here in northern Utah, let alone in Tmont. And so, I don't think the state was ready for the influx of people to come here, much less the city of Tmont be ready for everything that everybody's been dealing with.

Now, you have an outlier. You also have what is possible to plan for. Exactly. That out. That's why we're putting this together in the the scope that we are putting it together is because now we're going to scrutinize things as they come down and be better prepared for what each individual thing will be as it comes down as the plans are submitted. Okay. Okay. Well, I'm pretty much done with my and I didn't spell don't look I don't spell things right correctly sometimes. Find it. Find it. Don't find it. Find it.

Okay. So, uh this is my conclusion. This is this just to wrap up the training is to grow responsibly. A city must first establish clear land use plan and align its code with that vision. When we choose to when we choose to deviate, we should formally amend the plan so that the direction remains transparent. This creates a unified process between the city and its residents and ensures that we stay in harmony with state and local law. Okay, that's kind of my summary. I'm really excited to work with you guys and I will do all that I can to get you all the information that you guys need to make good decisions on all ends. So that's all I have. Thank you.

Appreciate that. Kristen, can I take two seconds? Yeah, I think we Well, are we doing We need to move to five citizen engagement. comments and reports. Yeah, I have something outside comments and reports, too. So, Okay. Okay. Uh, okay. This is a It's public comments.

Okay. Residents may address the planning commission on any issue not listed on the agenda, which is not the same as comments and reports. It's just that citizen engagement. Okay. We're gonna read the rules of engagement just so everybody understands. This is I like this. It's not me. Well, whoever. Thank you. Writing this putting it on paper. C Can you clarify something on that? The reason The reason that there's public comments not on the agenda is because we didn't have a public hearing. There was It wasn't It's not like we don't want people to comment on it was a training. So, usually there'll be public comments if we have if we need public a public hearing. Right. Okay.

System engagement is also comments. It sounds like that's what this is morphing into is the public comment section.

Um, which again it'll it'll it can morph in different ways because I I'm in favor of as much citizen discussion in these meetings as possible as much as wanted. Um, so as far as I'm concerned when I'm in charge of the meeting, I'm happy to make multiple sections where citizens can talk before If there's, you know, because the agendas are published, if you see something on the agenda and you want to come to this meeting prepared with something to so that we can have it as part of our discussion, then after our discussion, you're able to comment on what we discussed as well. I'm I'm all in favor of that. So, having multiple public comment sections in a meeting is totally appropriate in my mind. Um, having said that, there's not like really like a huge public business like you're saying. There's not a training package, just a training. So, this is going to take that place a public comment period, which is usually only once in a meeting. But here we go. Uh, so there's a dignity standard. These are these are hard conversations sometimes. If you're personally affected by it, it's gonna touch nerves. But we ask you please to please uh give us give us some some dignity and we will do our darnest to make sure we are doing the same for you. Giving you a voice, letting you participate and being involved. We want that. Um priority speakers who are reg who registered online, which is new. Can someone go over that?

It's not in it'll be on the new website. Okay. So, this is prepping for

future. Looks like we'll be able to register online to discuss things and then a signup sheet at the door. First come, first serve. Okay, that's news to me also. But you will have time to speak. Time limit three minutes per individual. Uh, and I'm I'm again saying that's why I like the multiple discussions. If people have three minutes before and then we have a discussion, then they have another three minutes, I feel like it ends and they pretty good about uh response. Under Utah state law, the council uh cannot debate or take actions on non-aggenda items. again why it's important that we have that idea in mind when we're approving the agenda. You can if you come to the meeting and you see that the agenda doesn't have something on there as you want to you want to make sure we hit it amend the agenda and we'll have a conversation about it. Um we will listen and direct. Okay. So, we open this meeting up to citizens. You're welcome to come to the mic and podium and you got three minutes.

Who's got any time? Good question. Well, they get the clock up there. They'll tell us. Well, that's not good enough. Just kidding. Clock.

My name is Lane. I technically don't live in Garland. I live in Boxel County. And I appreciate what Christine is doing. I'm part of the NPI team for the West area. And uh there is a lot of talk about the annexation that's going to happen with my property and the property behind us. As I look at the zoning ordinance uh for annexation, I am concerned about how the property is going to get zoned after it gets annexed. Right now it's zone zero and I personally do not want to have businesses or condominiums or whatever behind my house. I would like to have a influence in how it gets zoned and I yet have been able trying to figure out how that happens and how that occurs because as I read the ordinance it appears to me that somebody whether it's you guys or another group or whoever gets to establish what that zoning is going to be and I would like to be involved in that and so I would like to offer that as a suggestion. Another one I would like to encourage is I appreciate again what Christine's done today, but I would like to see a simple flowchart that we as the citizens can actually use and say here's the process, how we change zoning, how things get zoned, how a plan is coming in, how it goes through the process. A simple flowchart that we can all look at and say, "Yes, we're here at this step. We're at this step. We're at this step. This is when we want to have public input so that we can all be on the same page going in the same direction. I find it very confusing and I have no idea when to stand up and say something. And so I make comments uh quite regularly. I think that's about all I had at this point. But again, thank you for taking time to listen and actually making an effort to listen.

Thank you. Thank you for coming. Did I do my three minutes? Well, I think I got I got more. Thank you. I just have a I just have a question. You say your name, Michelle Martin. Um, so if if a de a developer comes in on a zoning and and he meets all the criteria, then he can do that development. So in on a PDU, is it the same thing? If he if a developer meets all the criteria, all the points and does he automatically get to do that?

He has to have the PD approved first. It it has to be approved. Each PD has to be approved individually. Even if they meet everything, can can they still be denied say infrastructure reasons? You know, it's the same. Can I ask? Yep. It's the same if you if somebody buys the land, think of it like this. So somebody buys a land at R110, even if they meet all of the requirements of R of um R18, they can't develop it because it's still R110, right? So even if they meet all the requirements of a PED, they can't develop it unless it's zoned unless the overlay is applied to the zone. Is that your question?

It still takes a decision by us to approve that process. So what we've tried to do is make that process easier on developers so that they know what to expect and grant for flexibility for that process to be approved for I understand. So you know they come in with this this plan for for R10. Yeah. And uh and it meets all the all of the code. You legally cannot deny him to do that. No. only only if the PE has been approved. Well, even if without a P say without a P.

Yeah. If if they came in and zoned R110 and they checked all the boxes of R110, they own the property. They have the right to build. Okay. And then they want to do a PUD. That has to be that's different. That doesn't automatically get approved just because they meet all boxes and it has to be an a PUD for R 110. Yes. So it can be a different zone. Yeah, good. Great. That's

Ben Greener, Tmont resident. I I'm pretty much against um PUDS. Over the years, I've seen too many contractors come in. Somehow they get the zoning changed when they know what they bought it as, and then they start, well, we want to do this, we'll give you that, we want to do this. And it just has never, in my opinion, turned out that way ever. We've never gotten as a city what we expected to get. Uh, and there's too much. We'll do this, we'll do that. Just too much negotiation that never pans out. I say, let's get our our plans together, get what we want this city to look like in our zoning, and build from that zoning. That's just my opinion. I sat with you guys for several years and I just watched too many things not come that was said would be done. I I've got a son that lives in another town. They will not even touch a PD. They just stick with the zoning. They clean their zoning up the way they want their city to look. And I would just suggest you do that. Get that zoning set up the way you want the city to look and and stick to it. Quit letting the contractors come in with their big game plans. Well, it doesn't pencil out. We can't make any profit. That's how you bought the property. Build from there. My opinion. Thank you.

Thanks.

Linda Alton. We were just at our daughter's house in Hanswood, Texas. She lives in a subdivision and they've started building houses like crazy. I don't want to say 4,000 houses. They had two ways in and out. There was so much traffic, one of the ways went by the mayor's house, and he's closed that road. So now there's only one way out. And they stay in their house an hour and a half in the morning and an hour and a half in the evening without going on the road because there's just too much traffic. So just be careful of what you say. You'll pay to because it'll happen here, too. Thank you. I'm with you. Traffic and transit is a big deal to me. Can

I do a followup if you How are we How many seconds does he have left? Oh, so he does have some time. You still have You're allowed three minutes, sir.

Okay. No, I follow up. Um, just quickly, the subdivision that's being planned down on Iowa Street, 70 acres, that uh is being planned, 500 units to go in there. My concern is if they build that in there and do what they've got planned, uh, I don't know how the traffic's going to ever flow out of there because you're going to leave south. You're going to go over to Barface's garage, go south, and then go over to the south interchange. That's a county road. It can't handle the traffic right now. That's going to have to be updated. And I don't know if we get to work with the county or the countyy's going to work with us. But somebody's going to have to update that road to handle the amount of traffic that's going to go there. So, as we start looking at these developments, we got to think about how in the world is all that traffic going to flow, not to mention 500 houses. Where are we going to put 500 new jobs here in this town? We got to start thinking about that as well because those people will all migrate to the south and it's going to become just another feeder community to somebody else.

Do they they have to do a traffic study when they do? What's that? I was just asking Christine. Yeah, we would require Yeah. And we would I would talk to the um and that would

um um so I live in a townhouse. I love my house, but um I personally would love it if you guys looked at like duplexes or something. They're a little more affordable than like a single family house, but you still have a yard and you still have land. It's your own because right now my house stops when the concrete stops. And so my son, when he wants to go outside every second of every day, I can't just let him run out and play because we need to do something inside. Or if I had a yard that was fenced, I could let him go out and play with the door open and I could watch him. I know a lot of young families that feel very similarly where if they could just have a little bit of yard that's their own to get them that stepping stone. I mean, I would love to have like an acre of land, but we just can't afford that right now where we are personally. And so to have that stepping stone recently with a yard, even though I mean I love my townhouse, but there's just no yard and there's a park there which is great, but to have something that you can own this grass and not just cement, I don't know. That's my idea. Thanks. Thank you.

I'm Jason. I'm also resident. Um I'll first echo the gentleman in blue moratorium on puds I think makes a lot of sense. It seems like there's some confusion on you know if they meet all these criteria pud I think we need to understand it's the exception not the rule and not having them seems to simplify. The second concern I have is impact fees. Um how what understand do we have bark impact fees? How are we charging those? What's the actual true mechanisms for those? Um I don't know that like I don't know where to find that resource exactly or that anybody has a true understanding of that. I don't you guys do like do we know what it costs?

It's not in the agenda so we can't discuss it right now. That's something we need to look into. Well, I think it was at the meeting a couple while we're looking at the water and you know those things. That's one thing I would encourage is if we start to get a screw up of our actual cost.

Thank you. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Morgan Meserly and I live in the Freeman Farms subdivision, the one that was just annexed in. I actually live directly next to the cement plant. To give you some context, I also have questions about impact fees because throughout this annexation process, there was a lot of he said, she said, this was promised. We have no idea what is actually in agreement and who's on the hook for the $16,000 in impact fees, which is an estimate. Again, don't even know if that's the exact amount of impact fees that could have changed given the the circumstances with water. So I think we need more understanding of are we going to have to pay that? Is the developer which was verbally agreed to? Don't know if it's in writing. Is he going to pay for that? How much is it going to be? How do we pay it? Is a payment plan. I think a concern that my neighborhood had and I won't speak for all my neighbors is not everyone could just write a check for 16 grand all of a sudden for an act indexation that we were volunteered for. So more knowledge we have on that the better we can understand the commitments how that's going to be deployed. We would appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you. We're just going to put a box out the door now. I write down everything. We need to do one of the videos with you. That's really what we need so everybody knows who you are. What are those? The Instagram videos. Yeah. I'm sure those were the words that you wanted to hear today. You should do an Instagram. You should do an Instagram video. They're so informative. I love them. No. Okay. Today's been I've been asked four times to not cut my hair and about 12 to get my hair. So,

so answering anyway answering the code questions. Okay. Good. Okay. Everybody, come on. I know you want to. You're here.

Anybody? I'm priming the pump. I don't know. Okay. Thank you. We'll close our citizen engagement section and move to point six, comments and reports. I have two Christie has I'll go and then I have Okay, so this is we're not taking comments on it right now because we are still let's go up. Yeah, okay. If this is coming out of the pipeline, I'm bringing it up to the MPI um this week. Sorry.

It's okay. I just want to give you a heads up for um something that's coming up on the next planning commission and it might do you have a pointer? Yeah, the pointer. Okay, so this property right here, the home I talked to the developer and it's zoned RM. Sorry, just I think I'm the only one that can't see it. Sorry. I can't either. It's over here. Can you see that? This section right here is what that yellow button the R10.

Oh, she's pointing the R110. That that section right there. Um um the the developer wants to come in and he's going to give me a concept plan April 1st and as soon as I get it I'll shoot the concept plan out to you. He is going to become I want to give you guys heads up on legislative acts that are going to be coming. So this is just a heads up. It's you know where the car wash is. That pink that pink um little square at the bottom is the car wash. Okay. So and then that big green area is the golf course. Okay. Thank you. So that is the golf course. Um the public facilities he's wanting to reszone it to RM16. I know I highensity housing

the I chatted with them. He wants to create a different multiple products, but we still have to I'm mailing out letters to all of those homeowners because they have to be mailed a letter. I'm bring it up with the NPI and then um doing all the legislative things that need to be done with that. But and he will give me a concept plan and it has to go through DRC as I'm gonna do a soft like kind of presented. I don't think I have a DRC meeting before but I am going to run it by try to get you some stats from the public works on what that would do to change if they change the density there. So I just wanted you to be able to go drive by it see what you would think. Um but it's currently zone R110. Big concern is outlet roads. There's only one outlet road right now. they are working with the property above it, the M MV to try to get a roadway that goes all the way to 10,00 um or

there's so there that's my biggest concern with this one is where where is the traffic going to go that will be an issue. So I don't have any of the reports or stats or anything. I just am giving you a heads up on that but that's now you said they were requesting a change to MD16

RN RN6. Yeah, that would allow them the flexibility of a PUB without getting a PUD. So, they could put town houses, they could do different things, but they could once it's if it's approved RM16, they could do all apartments, too. So, that's where if you want to figure out like some of the zones, just that little section is RM16 and part of his property does have a little bit of RM16 and he's wanting to extend that. as a council, if you want us to go away from the PUD and not use that, then we can figure out a way to say, well, we want this portion to still remain single family housing, so we can transition into like uh multiple family housing. And if you want to do or if you want to keep it R110 or however you want, whatever you guys want, but uh whatever the whole consensus is, it's not my decision. I'm just giving you the information.

How many acres is it? I don't know. I'll look that up. I don't really know. I could probably look it up right now on my my map. But one thing I was just thinking about because we were talking about water. Yeah. Um I kind of feel like it's pertinent to do a retroactive study on that particular topic for for how how much we have and how many how much we've already approved. How much we Yeah. Yeah, we've got pretty large developments that have been approved that even if you show up and say, "Well, this this would actually be a we would be able to handle this."

Well, that's these haven't been connected yet. You know, threequarters of these hasn't even been started. So, we're behind the eightball in some respects with that topic. Okay, I will get on that. And that might be something where maybe I'll push him off and say we have to do some studies on waters before we put it on your agenda. And that's something that I don't mind doing at all. So just saying before we do any zoning changes, we are going to get that study on the water in before we know. And I'm happy to do that. Something that I've been thinking about is is there such thing as like a league of cities? A league of cities

like where we can go to the state and we can say, "Hey, as a group, we're noticing a similar thing. we have a solution if we're not like we are in the same aid climate as all the cities in the state. So I imagine that there would be a way for us to be like okay as municipalities we we recognize that we are at a point where having gathered this data we're at this level we need this if you we want to follow your capacity requirements or for all these different so we can kind of see where we are at compared to other municipalities and then yeah not even necessarily compared to

the data gathering for us is the most important thing. Yeah. so that we can approach Garland or Lwood or whatever and be like, hey, this is what we're experiencing, what do you have? Okay. And then they can maybe do their study and we can all kind of start coming together and be like, okay, statewide we need to come up with something, whether that's increase reservoir capacity and plummet from the Colorado River, I don't know, whatever. But like fresh water is more important to me than right the salt lake. I hate to break it to anybody. Like

so the our county has like I went to that box other county summit two years in a row now. And they do they have there are I don't know what organizations or whatever they are throughout the county that do get together with other counties. Yeah. In the state to discuss things like our county had our had a the water information how much water we would need per per unit and plan things like that. So I don't know if that's from the state like if that's statewide that they have that data or but I know that does go together with other counties to do that

with with how much our our I mean questions have been surrounding water. I would be surprised if the data originated from the people here. I would I would be more I that would be something I would expect. The state money has done a study. However that was performed I have no idea. It was a lot of money, too. And if it was a, you know, Yeah. how how accurate was it to Tmont as opposed to one other Sorry right any other city.

See, that's what I was going to throw at you. We do the state does because I I sit on two of the boards there this way different entities and so I'm with the uh the Yoka Coalition or the the Northern Utah coalition you know for the ordinance compliance associations but you could create your own little group like that and I would encourage you to actually do that then you could bring in what's here or if you want to reach out to different but now you're if you create it it's your information that you're trying to obtain or if you belong to a different group, you're taking their information to you. Does that make sense? Yeah.

All right. Um the acreage is 36.29 acres. Okay. 16 houses. Yeah. So that's something for you to kind of I will get you more information email and then we will definitely have enough get that be get that information out to the public. I've actually already got some of that stuff out. Okay. Okay. Okay. Then Christy Boat has the other item. You didn't sit in your chair. Oh no. I've been booted. What? Been booted. You've been booted.

Um I am a stickler for the rules. I am If it's an ordinance, you're going to follow it. Not just you, everybody, including me. So, in order to appoint somebody to planning commission, it goes to the exeicio. Happens to be me. Never done that before. They have never done that before. Tron, it's just been want you to be on here. I want you to be on here. We're going to do it, right? Okay. So, I do have applications and this does apply to anyone that's sitting in this room. Also, if you want a chance to be on the planning commission to be part of this, you don't have to. Are you laughing at me or you're No, I'm enjoying this. I'm enjoying this. This is great. I'm ready.

I listen. If you don't follow or if you don't follow ordinance with me, I'm going to let you know in a hurry because we need to bring things back around. We need to do things the right way so we're not in trouble. Okay. So, everybody on the planning commission, you need to fill out an application. Also, we're going to do this, right? Anyone in this room, if you would like to have a chance to serve on the planning commission. Now, the big the big mystery with this is, and it's really not a mystery. People say, "If I don't live in city limits, I can't be on the planning commission." Yes, you can. If you are in the um extended boundaries where they could extend the zones can be onexation, you can be on plan commission because anything that happens here does affect you

because you're in a future annexation. And so I have a really good long talk with the guy at the what's it called? Can I think of Budsman Group for property rights? I was right on the tip of my tongue. I was right there. You weren't supposed to have that. He schooled me right, which I already knew because I've talked to him since 2019. And I love what the gentleman back here said, and he's he drilled that into my brain. You don't have to allow PUBS in your in your community.

That's a tool. You don't have to allow them. So just keep that in your in your in the brain cellar. Anybody out here that wants to run for planning commission, you need to realize that this is the way it's going to be. So here are applications. Everybody up here needs to take one. You can either just bring them into this office, give them to Haley. I'll get with her tomorrow, let her know that they're going to be shoveling in. Or if you know where I live, drop it at my house, whichever is easier. I will go over them and then I'm actually going to run them past Christine. You're picking us off. No, we don't know what's going to happen yet, but we're going to run it like it's supposed to run out.

You know, if I didn't like you so well, it probably um but we're going to run it like the way it's supposed to be ran. It's in the It's in the code. It's in the code and we haven't been following code since 2019. Is it you're saying that application is in the nothing has been done right that we were supposed to be you're supposed to apply it's supposed to go through the process the exeicio is the one that is supposed to go through the application then I can take them to I'll take them to she's actually here and then it will be taken to the council and the council will approve or disapprove because I was taken through the officio oh I wasn't and then I was

a lot of them were not and then I interviewed and then I've got I was interviewed I was interviewed at city c by two the city council member the mayor and one of the person I can't remember probably Archel that's who I was well that was one of the city council members but I was the city so we're just we're just going to do things right

and so I had a good I'm going to interject I I've been talking to a lot of lawyers and I had a good friend that's a lawyer and was a city attorney in Reno in Nevada for like 20 years and he told me something that helped me and he says we're going to make you're going to make mistakes. We're going to miss things. He's like but when it comes to land use and running a city you do your very best to do it right and if you don't do it right you do it again. And and he's like that will keep you in the safe is it if if it's if it's not done right then you have and he's like that's with codes with ordinances with anything applications. If it's not done right you just you do it again have to do it over again.

Is there going to be a pay reduction? You're probably going to get the same pay I get, which is my son says 24 hours a day, seven days a week for 5 cents an hour. Literally nothing. I know for Christmas. So like the next week on Is that the time frame? Two weeks. I'm going to cut it off in two weeks. April 15th. Okay. Talk day. Huh? I didn't say

okay thank you for comments and reports I will accept a well there's a hand I heard you say that we have an opportunity for comments after this but that was if we approved it in the agenda as part of it so there's there's times when we will have like if we have Uh I recommend you corner us after the meeting. Sure. But just so you just so it's clarified again. Um if there's a what are we talking about?

Public hearing. If there is a public hearing on an action like legislative or administrative action then what I usually like to do is add to the agenda a comment section before the hearing and then the hearing and then we'll keep the citizen engagement section after so there's two clarification. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yes, that's clarification. Activity's been so great to get these all put together for you. So, I will accept a motion to adjurnn. I will make a motion to adjurnn. Been moved. Seconded that we adjourn. All in favor say yes. Yes. Yes.

Thank you everyone. No, don't keep the book. That's too much.