Safety Administration - Regular Meeting

it's now two o'clock and we will begin this meeting of the state of toledo honor board again my name is barbara floyd i'm a citizen appointee to this board and i've asked to chair the board this is the matter before the board is the removal of the from the table of a motion to to remove Monsignor Jerome Schmidt's name from the city street where he is so honored. I will give people... opportunity to each side the opportunity to speak for 10 minutes and then if there are other people who would like to come forward in support or against whatever has been stated those people will receive three minutes to speak i would ask that if you gave testimony last time that you focus your remarks on anything new or additional that you did not mention last time because I think it behooves us to not repeat ourselves and to keep this discussion respectful in moving forward and hopefully towards a conclusion by the end of this meeting. So with that said, I would ask the side- I need to call an order. Oh, I'm sorry. Floyd?

Here.

Fosna?

Here.

Spittler?

Here.

Stuckey?

Here.

Collins? Aikman? Williams? Here. Thank you, quorum present.

Okay, so whichever side would like to begin, I will ask Julie to start the clock for ten minutes.

We received the application, so if you would like to start, because it's your application. Whoever wants to present. Please just state your name for the record.

Nephew of Sister Margaret Ann Paul. And when we were here a few weeks ago, I gave you a rundown of Sister's life and what she had done and what she meant to this community of Toledo. She was a very kind, gentle woman. And one of her top jobs, I guess, she had here in Toledo. She was administrator of St. Charles Hospital in Toledo here, and she was also the director of nursing at Mercy School of Nursing. So she was very, very involved with Toledo and the area here. So for many years, Monsignor Jerome Schmidt was a very powerful and influential person in Toledo, particularly in 1980, and I think We've established that before. There's no doubt that Monsignor Schmidt did many positive things for the city of Toledo. Less than three weeks after the murder of my aunt and five days after Monsignor Jerome Schmidt and Deputy Chief Ray Vedder abruptly stopped the murder investigation of Father Gerald Robinson, there was two letters written by Father Ray Fisher. Father Ray Fisher was the bishop's secretary, and he was an administrative manager of the Diocese of Toledo. And these letters were written to the bishops, including auxiliary bishop James Hoffman. They were entered into evidence in 2006 at the trial, and it was State Exhibit 180. So you have copies of those letters and the translation of those because they're a little hard to read, some of them. So Bishop Hoffman's the same person that days after the murder convinced Peggy Lester to remain silent. And Peggy Lester was the head of the physical therapy department at Mercy Hospital in 1980. She saw Father Robinson that morning come out of the chapel and go around the corner and leave. She saw him at that time, and that was at the time frame that the murder took place. So you have a copy of the sworn statement taken by Detective Tom Ross. And that didn't happen until 2012. And I won't go into all that. You have that information as to why that was delayed. She swore to Bishop Hoffman that she would not tell. The letters from Father Fisher to Bishop Hoffman show that the police department was keeping the diocese informed. They were working together on Father Robinson's behalf. There's a few excerpts I'll give you from those letters, and you do have those. Monsignor Schmidt arranged legal counsel for Father Robinson. These are right from these letters. Ray Vedder told Monsignor Smith he was going to have to take the case to the prosecution soon, to the prosecutor. Ray Vedder told Monsignor Smith the police department had remained silent about their suspicions. Monsignor Smith and Herschel, which was Father Robinson's lawyer at the time, Henry Herschel, called the police and got them to agree not to contact Father Gerald Robinson. and the last one is stated in these letters that they are confident that attorney herschel will handle things well particularly the police they knew they had a problem for many years uh... deputy chief ray better was a powerful influential person in toledo in the toledo police department uh... particularly in nineteen eighty this is from the uh... 2006 murder trial that I'll be speaking about now. So we have Lieutenant William Keenis unrefuted sworn testimony at the trial. And you have all that, so I won't spend the time to go through all that. You have that all in front of you. We have Sergeant Art Marks unrefuted sworn testimony at the trial. They both were very passionate at the time, and they were still very unhappy with what took place 26 years prior. Both Keenan and Marks had clear memories of Monsignor Jerome Schmidt, Deputy Chief Ray Vetter, and the diocesan attorney, Henry Herschel, stopping the murder investigation and walking out of the police building with Father Gerald Robinson. Very vivid memories of them stopping it

taking Father Robinson out of the police building.

And you have copies of the excerpts from the trial transcripts. There's 4,000 pages in the trial transcript. That's why you have excerpts. There may be a parade of people that come up here and tell of all the positive things that Monsignor Jerome Schmidt did over the years. And that's fine. And they may all be true. He did many good things over the years for the diocese and for the city of Toledo. No one's disputing all the good things that Monsignor Jerome Schmidt or Deputy Chief Ray Vedder did over the years. Not disputing that at all. But everything changed on April 19th, 1980. Deputy Chief Ray Vedder brought Monsignor Jerome Schmidt to the police station That's in the trial transcript. They stopped the interrogation of Father Gerald Robinson. They left the police station with Father Gerald Robinson. That was the end of the investigation into the murder of my aunt, Sister Margaret Ann Paul. Stopped it in its tracks. Father Robinson was free, back on the streets for 24 years until his arrest in 2004. So almost finished. So my statements today are not just my thoughts, not just my assumptions, not my emotions, not just words from a book or a magazine or a newspaper, and not just something I heard on a podcast or that I saw on TV. Although my statements are well documented in all the aforementioned media outlets, you can find them, you can readily find all these statements. and the document packets that you were given. It's in there. So these are facts. What I've talked about is sworn testimony that I personally witnessed at the trial in 2006. The trial was three weeks long and I sat through every day of the trial. The criminal act of stopping the murder investigation and the criminal act of covering up the murder of my aunt, Sister Margaret Ann Paul, overshadows all the good things that Monsignor Schmidt did in his lifetime. Again, not challenging the good things, but it only takes one incident to overshadow everything you've done for the positive. So in closing, I want to say it's never too late to do the right thing. I ask again, please remove the Monsignor Jerome Schmidt Way signs and honors. These signs have disrespected my aunt, Sister Margaret Ann Paul, my family, and all the crime victims for over 24 years. My aunt, Sister Margaret Ann Paul, spent 53 years of her life as a nun serving God and serving the people of Toledo. My aunt deserves better than this. We all do. My family suffered through this tragedy since 1980. Please pass this request on to the city council with the recommendation that Monsignor Schmidt's sign be removed for all the reasons in the packets that you were given, the packets you were handed, for my aunt and for all violent crime victims. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Is there anyone here to speak in opposition to the proposal to remove Monsignor Schmidt's name? Again, please keep your comments to ten minutes.

Thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Tom Antonini. I'm general counsel for the Diocese of Toledo. Since no new material or relevant evidence has been offered following this board's initial hearing on May 7, the position of the Diocese of Toledo remains the same. The Diocese of Toledo stands behind Monsignor Jerome Schmidt as an honored Toledo citizen and worthy of acknowledgement. No competent authority has ever suggested that Monsignor Schmidt ever engaged in any wrongdoing, did anything illegal, or otherwise acted inappropriately. Any accusation based against him now is based on supposition and hypothesis with no foundation in fact. Those proposing removal of the street sign honoring Monsignor Schmidt conflate the actions of Father Robinson with those of Monsignor Schmidt and they continue to do that. Anyone accused of a crime has a right to an attorney, the right against self-incrimination, and the right to a defense. Because so many of the people that were involved in this case are already deceased, we need to affirm that even the dead have the right to their good name. On senior Jerome Schmidt, what he was alleged to have done is no different than what any good person would do for a family member, a friend, or a neighbor accused of a crime. Innuendo and faulty reasoning do not negate a man's good deeds. and this honor board should not tolerate such a dubious and insidious attack. Thank you.

Thank you. So in support, we'll give you three minutes. Is that sufficient?

It should be. Thank you. My name is Jim Vetter. Ray Vetter was my father. It's very upsetting listening to individuals disparage Monsignor Schmidt and Ray Vetter. There's no doubt that Sister Margaret Ann was brutally murdered in 1980 and that Gerald Robinson was the primary and only suspect. And there's no doubt she was a great lady. There's no disputing that. Major disagreement is the role that Monsignor Schmidt played while Robinson was being held and interrogated by police detectives. As previously communicated, our dad told us repeatedly over the years that following marathon sessions with the detectives, we're getting nowhere trying to get a confession or gather further information from Robinson. And my dad requested that Monsignor come in, meet with Robinson to try to get further information, and try to get a confession. He was the only suspect. There was no contention at that. At that point, the police did not have enough evidence to arrest Robinson. The meeting concluded as described, Robinson was released from custody. Plausible explanation has been discussed is that the Robinson's lawyer did what he was obligated to do. They did not have enough evidence to charge him. They had to release him at that time. To make the allegation that Ray Vedder and Monsignor conspired to let Robinson go is ludicrous. It's also very important to note that the decision to arrest or release any murder suspect, it's not solely the police department. It's not the police chief. It's certainly not Monsignor Schmitz. It's a conjunction of the prosecutor's office with the police department. Do they have enough evidence to charge Robinson? At that time, back in 1980, they did not. It's ironic and sad that here we are 46 years after Sister Margaret Ann's murder. We're looking to destroy the legacies and reputations of two good men. Ray Vetter, who passed away 15 years ago, by all accounts had a stellar 34-year career with the Toledo Police Department. A man of integrity, repeatedly stated his biggest disappointment in his career was not being able to convict a suspect in the murder of Sister Margaret Ann. And Monsignor Schmidt, who passed away 29 years ago, a priest who dedicated his life to the youth of Northwest Ohio and Toledo, requested to come back in in 1980 to try to help solve the murder. Trying to help. Now he's being disparaged and his reputation, you know, tarnished for trying to help. It was what he did most of his life. Very sad and actually makes me very angry. We respectfully request Honor Board and Toledo Circuit Council make their decision based on facts, not hearsay and not speculation. The people involved in that meeting and that room, they're all passed away. None of them are around to give testimony today. Thanks for listening.

Thank you. Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to come forward for three minutes on either side of this issue?

Sir, you can pull the microphone down so that we can. There you go.

My name is Father Steve Stanberry, a priest of the Catholic Diocese of Toledo. And by the way, a good friend of mine is Jerry Hiltman, who is a nephew of Ray Vedder, and he's on our side. I was the most outspoken priest in the diocese against the cover-up on molesters and won a national award. I'm interviewed in a movie that won the Sundance Film Festival and almost won the Academy Award. I was one of the five nominees. So I have been dealing with corruption in this diocese. So when they come forward and start saying things, I want to read this letter that I wrote to you already. because I want you to take everything diocese officials say with a cum granis salis, as we say in Latin, with a grain of salt. I am a retired Toledo Catholic priest murdered. I was a deacon doing an internship in Sandusky, Ohio at St. Mary's when it happened. I still remember walking into the kitchen at the rectory where two associate pastors were talking about her murder. I didn't know her, but I was stunned that a nun would be murdered in a Toledo chapel on Holy Saturday. In 2002, I began speaking out publicly against the cover-up of local clergy. So there's a history of cover-up of criminals in this diocese. the local clergy, sexual abuse because of how poorly victims were being treated by the diocese. In 2004, Toyota Police Sergeant Steve Forrester and Detective Tommy Ryder came to my parish in New Bavaria, Ohio, and I talked to them in person and by phone several times. The detective's We had asked the bishop's office for Father Robinson's personal file after his arrest and were given only three pages. Sergeant Forster, a detective writer, found out from working with police in the Cleveland Diocese that subsecretar, under the secret, files existed. Subsecretar means under the secret. And when they found out that that was really a thing, they obtained two no-knock search warrants and returned to the Chancery where diocesan officials quickly surrendered more than 135 additional pages about Father Robinson. This was our local and national news, including the Nancy Grace Show, and she covered portions of the trial while Court TV was in Toledo following the Robinson murder case. Shortly thereafter, Bishop Leonard Blair held a QA session with priests.

Sir, your time is quickly moving along, so please wrap it up.

Oh, I'll just read this. Hereafter, Bishop Leibler had a Q&A with priests, which he openly questioned the integrity of the police to us. At the meeting, his brain about how the diocese was cooperative with the police. I raised my hand and asked, if you were so cooperative, why did the police have to come back a second time with search warranties

We have your letter entered into the packet of information.

If you were cooperative, why didn't you get the whole kit and caboodle in the first place? There's a lot more. Thank you very much. Let me say one thing. Father Ray Fisher, the Chancellor, was mentioned. His nephew, who is a priest, molested a girl in Perrysburg, Ohio.

That's irrelevant to the issue.

I just want to show the character of what people from this diocese.

Thank you very much for your comment.

Ray Fisher beat me up for a parish.

Okay, is there anyone else from the audience who would like to speak for three minutes?

Good afternoon. My name is Claudia Varsaletti. I'm with the Survivors Network of those abused by priests and other church leaders. We came before you a month ago because you were the first opportunity we've ever had to present. We've been trying since 2006, since all of the information came forward in the trial. Like Lee Paul, I sat at the trial every single day and I watched the trial unfold. I watched Kena and Marks testify on the record. Their testimony was unrefuted. They were impeached. After the trial, I talked to them, both of them, several times over the course of a period of time to really understand the trial and all that it entailed. I still have their phone numbers in my cell phone and they're long gone. That's how important their contributions to this case really were. And I do have that in the trial transcript. I want to address what Mr. Antonini has addressed before your board today. You have my packet. He said this is supposition and that there's no evidence. The direct testimony of Marks and Keener is not supposition. It's in the child's transcript. And in order to believe what Mr. Antony would have you believe, you have to also discount the court that did not impeach them, the jury that did not impeach them. You have to discount Julia Bates, who has written a letter in support of what we've come here to do today. It's also in your packet. You have to discount the investigator. Tyler Ross, who also has written a letter, who is the lead investigator on this case. You have to discount the national media that was here in Toledo, Ohio in 2006 and covered this in real time. You have to discount the local media that covered this in real time. You have to discount the book authors. Not one, not two, not three, but four book authors that wrote on this. Because all of them reported the same information over and over again. And I know, Chairwoman Floyd, that last time you were very concerned about what happened behind those closed doors. And with all due respect, it doesn't matter what happened behind those closed doors. What matters is when the door opened. That case was over in three weeks flat. What was touted as Toledo's most notorious murder investigation. And I'm watching the clock. It was over in three weeks flat. And for 20 years we've been trying to get this signed down. And we've gotten nothing but knuckles and elbows. The evidence exists. It exists in the transcript. It exists in those packets. The evidence is clear. It exists in Ray Fisher's letters. You also have to discount Ray Fisher. Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to make any comments today?

Okay, I will ask each of the board members if they would like to make a statement or comment.

Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to let us speak, and thank you for chairing this. I actually brought forth us having the Board of Honor just because this was actually my piece of legislation to bring forth the Board of Honor, so I appreciate going through the process. And I appreciate all of you actually coming out and advocating for what you believe on both ends of it. I have read through everything as a district council person and I have reached out to the Mudhens as well. It's unfortunate of what has brought us here and the brutal death of the nun. She shouldn't have died in that way by the hands of someone that was supposed to be a colleague. And we're here today. My concerns is that after reading through everything, I think that when we talk about Monsignor Smith, when I read the prosecutor's letter, she actually talked about the right to have legal counsel. She said that they stopped it so that he can get legal counsel, which was well within his rights. So I think that I'm concerned that Something is missing here that we're not talking about. And the guilty by association is what I think I'm hearing. I hope that everyone understands our role and how hard it is to have this role to decide to take someone's honor away. So let's be clear. this is a board that has to make a decision to remove a sign that was placed up years ago that we were not in these seats i wasn't anywhere near the seats but i am very familiar with the story um i hope you know we will definitely take in consideration everything that has been presented we have hundreds of documents that have been presented and they continue to they are talk about the same thing we will not negate the fact that this was a brutal murder and it was gruesome and it was horrific and no one should have to die that way with that being said i um i think i'm ready for the motion to figure out what we're doing with this but i'll leave this to cheer do any of the other board members wish to speak

Okay, I will speak. I think the statement was made that Prosecutor Bates' letter was in support of removing the name from the street, and I have read that letter, and I don't see that statement. I see merely a statement of fact of what happened at the time, which is that Monsignor came in, the interrogation was stopped, and everyone left. There doesn't seem to be a clear statement of support within that letter. I will again say, as Councilwoman says, What I believe is that whatever happened behind those closed doors, none of us, none of us will ever know. And I have, I'm trained as an historian, I depend upon fact, I depend upon documentation and not conjecture, not this is what could have happened. I think without anyone who is in that room still alive today who can tell us for sure what happened, it would be inappropriate for us to remove Monsignor Schmidt's name from the street. That is my personal opinion. I think that you can say that there's a lot of fact presented here in this many, many pages of documents. But again, the very important fact, the most important fact, What happened in that room behind that closed door, we do not know. And everything that comes after that is, in my mind, supposition of what could have happened. But none of us, none of us know and none of us will ever know what happened behind that closed door. And so that is my statement on that. So if none of the other members of the board want to make a statement or I guess we will be prepared to entertain a motion. I entertain a motion from the board since the recommendation is to remove Monsignor Schmidt's name from Monsignor Jerome Schmidt Way. The motion, I think, needs to be framed in that way.

I'll make a motion. I'll make a motion. Does this board recommend that Toledo City Council remove Monteer Smith's name from, what is it, Huron? From Huron. St. Clair, I think. St. Clair.

St. Clair from Washington to Monroe.

Washington to Monroe, St. Clair and Monroe. I mean, Washington and Huron, right?

According to the ordinance, sorry, we're really.

I'm sorry, it's Monroe and St. Clair. St. Clair from Washington to Monroe. Yep.

St. Clair, okay.

So to remove from that street.

Is there a second to that motion?

I'll second that motion.

Okay.

I will ask, Julie, are you serving as the roll call? I'll ask Julie Gibbons to please call the roll.

Spittler?

Yes.

In favor of removing?

Yes.

Williams?

No.

Floyd? No. Stuckey?

Yes.

Fresno?

Yes.

Three votes carry for the removal of the sign recommendation to the full city council.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

THANK YOU. Thank you. Thank you.

He did a lot of good things. Like I stated, there was no question. So anyway, thank you.