Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good

evening. I'd like to call the order of the infrastructure planning and sustainability committee meeting of 04/22/2026. Happy Earth Day. Clerk, will you please call the roll? Councilmember Diaz? Here. Councilmember Hines? You waved. Vice chair Stahlgren?

Here.

And chair Walker. Here. Alright. Moving on to public comment. To request a speaker in public comment for items on

the agenda, please sign up in

the front of the room if you have not done so already. If you're speaking virtually, please press the raise hand button near the the bottom of the Zoom window or star nine on the phone. Your name or the last four digits of your phone number will be called out

when it is time to speak.

Alright. Thank you. Anna, does anyone sign up to speak virtually or in person? Has an in person. No hands on here. Okay. Great. We'll do two minutes. And, Kit, you can come on up to the table.

My name is Kent Burns. I live in District 3, and I wanted to speak to Andrew to talk about the expansion of the roads improvements and whatnot.

And as a retired

architect, when I was an architect working

as architect,

we would do schools, like, high school developments.

And part of that

was to actually complete sidewalks and streets. Not only have Vision Zero, we have complete streets.

We

have safe routes to schools. And so when we have a project and some of my projects at high school at the time, I was still it's the second largest project for the state we got. But we'd always do sewer improvements, water improvements. We'd also when we did the spring improvements, we did complete straight, which is.

Now I brought this up before, and I'm not here

to complain about that, but

I just wanna make sure

that maybe I'm not communicating. The issues I have is that the bridge industrial project, it's a 4 probably $500,000,000 project. And what bothers me is down by the Asia Pacific Center. The sidewalks weren't complete. Now Jennifer got back to me, which I appreciate.

And that's also why they shared with you as well. But what I looked at when I dropped there is one of the accesses to this, I've read the traffic or traffic study done from this, is they didn't complete the street, 15th Street. So I'm just gonna leave this with you and just show that missing sidewalk. And when I see this as both the citizen, as architects, seeing that they didn't complete that street even though they used that. Somebody's gonna have to do that. Somebody's gonna have to pay. And if I was at Asia Pacific Center, wanted to walk to my house or something down 56th 56th Street.

That would be

oh, the sidewalk on the south side of the street doesn't exist. So it may be one of the projects that should be added to build out that you're talking about. But it's also a thing that I concern as an architect because when I was working at King County, having convenience, I think City of Bromo would be in well, would have tried on a half of the. Right. So it's just giving you head sci fi. And I've mentioned before sometimes, I think maybe I don't care. Appreciate

it. You. Anyone online? Thanks. Alright. Thanks, Kim. Yeah. Alright. We'll move on to our briefing items. Our first item is the six year comprehensive transportation improvement program annual amendment, and this is something we are gonna vote at the end of the presentation to send to the full council. And with that, I will call on Jennifer Camerzel from Public Works. Please go ahead.

Thank you very much. So Jennifer Camerzel, Public Works transportation manager. This is the second time final proposal probably before you hit IPS, which is the next slide. So today, I'm actually just gonna provide a brief overview. Again, it's gonna be proposed to request for performance, provide a brief background. This is your application around the link for it background fairly quickly since I come forward to you all anytime. We'll go over the major changes and the perspective of it, and then we'll share I'll share a

little bit more about the outreach,

the ethical and next steps, and

then as we mentioned, share

offers, and we'll be for a, what we'll call, a recommendation to pass to forward this to the full city council for studies. So, again, just as an overview reminder that the six year program is required by state law. All local jurisdictions annually are adopted to submit to the state, the six year program of transportation improvements. The State Department of Transportation will be the town council. Both use these local six year program as tools for coordinating transportation programs of those jurisdictions within those of regional agents.

Program must be adopted by July 1 each year. State law requires capital projects such as roadways, reconstructions, bridges, non motorized facilities such as sidewalk extension, and trails, and then other capital related traffic changing projects as well. It does not include maintenance projects such as ship seal and hospital repairs, or it might even be a parent sidewalks. Here. On this current list of needed projects and programs for the next six years.

Currently, there are three forty four projects included in the current document being proposed to you. And then just as a a note, something in my is that revenue is declined and comes to a close or is closed. Funding for new future projects will be simple. Means that we'll be looking at other funds that have not historically utilized, including our newly adopted application and and substantial audit. So then diving forward into our proposed revisions and just the highlights.

Make sure that we have one project proposed for a renewal, and it's because it has been completed. This is the multilingual on road street name sign that was a partnership with. Where they've been completed, they've been installed, it's fully funded by. The next highlight is the proposed additions. So there are seven that are being proposed to be precluded to this to this year's document.

We've gone over in detail each one in the last presentation, but I do wanna highlight two changes that have come out, and I'll and we'll see if we'll see a little bit better on the next slide. But one project that was added erroneously to the list was the Stonewall Loop Road, which a commenter had shared public comments on the last meeting, I guess. But I say it's erroneously because it actually was already added to your. So, unfortunately, it is a miss on my part that not new. It's already been in there.

But what did come forward since then is a new project called Opticoma tree canopy enhancement project. That's in partnership with Department of Epology to plant trees, install the landscape along Union Avenue on Union Avenue south of SR 16 and then also to construct a parklet as part

of the South Tocoma tree

project. It's a partnership with Department of Oncology who's funding completely funding it at 1.5. So as you can see on the pie chart on the right that there is 38,800,000 in total project costs. 28,000,000 is unidentified funds. Those are primarily for bridge capital projects, which is a grant program or an anticipation from PSRC.

They announced this year that they will incentivize some funding for bridge operation and maintenance. They're starting with the county this year. It's anticipated to be open up to the cities within the region next year. So we're just trying to get in line for those fundings because we have a fairly large for those operations to meet. And then the other piece is for the Portland Avenue and we'll get that.

Roundabout that's a priority partnership for the Port Of Tacoma and sleep. Also, with the temporary plan, we've already gotten a small congressional district allocation for building on that project. So this next slide helps to show what those seven to five to seven to add to the six year program. And so what I've done here is in in response to demonstrating the tie into equity and sustainability, I actually utilize the transportation of a building plan project prioritization criteria. So I've created a table here where on the left are all the different projects.

And on the top, these are all of the different these are the eight different, TMP goals that were outlined. And in each of these categories, then, transportation should really liked how this was showing that tie in, which does reflect, you know, that tie against equity and sustainability because each of these different categories does represent that. So, like, for instance, equity and livability, TMP, the attributes, and equity index. As part of stat project scoring on criteria. And so we kind of use that same matrix here, safe and comfortable, and time to zero if the project is on that corridor, sustainable and healthy place.

Really specific criteria on how we are identifying those checkboxes. So while someone might say, you know, the South Tacoma tree canopy enhancement, like, also connects community. And when you actually dive a little further into the connects community category, there's a piece in there that talks about it's more specific to what it actually means, and it's it's where it's projects that have been included in, like, suburbia plans or neighborhood plans more specifically. Specifically. So not that it doesn't fully or generally connect a community, but these have more specific criteria.

I think this is where we you're the commission really is aiming towards as we start defining the goals and criteria for projects in

the program suite

is to make it so box, any project that comes forward. Because I think previously, if the project came forward, I could say, well, yeah, you know, there's the group has talked about it, so we'll check that box group especially if we are. It connects community because it's, you know, it's nicer to walk along with tree line streets, so we can check that box set. I think as we start to focus and hone in on what

are the priorities that

meet those different goals, that helps to narrow down our. And then just a little bit more about the relationship between long range planning, state and regional improvement programs, spending, and priorities. This slide just demonstrates how outreach actually happens. So the six year program, it is annually adopted, and it is challenging to do outreach, broader outreach, the extent that we would typically do for most, you know, plans or separate plans each year tied to the six year program. So what we really do is we're looking back at the projects that feed the six year program.

And so that's where you see the orange boxes on the left. Those are so the transportation, the mobility plan, comprehensive plans, the right delivery plans, where we're seeing most of that outreach action. Last year, we found a really big effort of updating the comp plan along with the TMP. And so we really used, again, that outreach to then focus what's gonna be added to

the six year

program knowing that the six year program is next. So TMP's asked for projects. That's our twenty year vision, and this two programs. Year looking at the intent is that people complete all of those projects.

Just going back to there are well, it might not

be specific to the six year program, which has been presented to commission and planning commission.

The broader average has

to come. That's one of these other steps. And then just a reminder. So based on this, I have presented to you I've come to our guests back in March, and then I've presented transportation. And provided that you give a recommendation tonight that we'll be able go to today's session twelfth, that would tee us up for a public hearing, June 2. First meeting, June 9. Second meeting, June 16. Again, state law does require that it's adopted by July 1. There is some time built in there. Holidays just gonna be cautious about or conscientious about.

And if not adopted by July 1, if there are any applications or grants or or that we're applying for, it could jeopardize our little. With that, concludes my presentation. Would like

to answer your questions. Do you mind? Great. Thank you, Jennifer. And as you mentioned at the top, we have seen versions of this, so I think those are pretty well engaged with it. Does anybody have any questions for Jennifer before we?

Nice. Cheers. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Maybe it's because my brain is kind of mush. I need refresher on some things. I wanted to double check. Is the is there an E 64th Street Phase 3 that's in this one, or is that just on the larger one, six year?

It is in the six year.

It is on the six year. Okay. I just wanted to make sure if you had the phase two one over there. So phase three is what people are asking me for. I kinda wanna understand so the six year on slide five, the six year I don't know. It's only the seven proposed projects or 38,000,000, not the entire six year set of projects. Yeah. Roughly how much is the six year? Yeah. I was like pretty good. Yeah. I was like,

the math wasn't working.

We we could get, like, we could get that done. It's, like, now. Okay.

How much is,

like, the total

I will find out.

Order of magnitude. I don't don't need the exact one. Is it hundreds of millions? Is it, like, a billion dollars? Or just

For what what's in the six year program, not quite a billion, but several. Got it.

Okay. And you said something about a a bridge operating funding source from ASRC or or one of the the regional team. What what is that?

So we're proposing to add it's called bridge capital projects this year, which is so you were for us. In the past, we've actually had a bridge project in the six year program, but over time, it's there wasn't funding for just regular operations maintenance. But PSRC recognizes that they typically have some additional funding through their countywide corporate projects. And instead of instead of allocating those funds to projects that are already in the queue, the board is actually looking to subsidize some funding for bridge operation maintenance projects. I think that was spurred a lot by a lot of the Georgia Tech.

So they're gonna be setting aside some funding. They're gonna start in the county as a whole, the four counties themselves, then and they're gonna move to the city switch just, you know, be Oh. Bridges. And it could be anything from painting to same smaller equipment. Well, it's just kinda.

The final vote is tomorrow.

K. Should have. I wanted to be also reminded when we look at what we do Twitter, but don't put on, do we also take into account, like, our assessment of the winability of of getting grants, or is that not included?

Yes. We do look at the competitiveness of grants, and that's one thing that we wanna continue on that side with the TMP goals. We've talked also with the clarification questions they really wanna tee up about prioritization. Like, how in the future are we adding projects? And one of the so that we recommended they, you fully support and acknowledge it. We've gotta have enough projects that will help us with the. So that would be projects a variety of different projects. So we have some projects, freights, bridges, you know, things that help economic development.

Throw a light vent. Yeah.

So have enough of projects that would at least meet those criterias, and that would actually

And then see what we get, then we can determine if that will be actually okay. And lastly, if there's a project that comes up because we got we got city we got the budget come in. We're gonna approve the the tip before we go into that if there are colleagues that have, like, a new project or something that they really wanna set set aside funding for. Like, how does that work? Would that be in the next cycle? Or

Yes. So the six year program, it's really is more of a planning tool, use it utilizing what we have currently budgeted. And so the biannual budget scores, we've got the capital operations or the capital allocation capital budget. Excuse me. Anything that gets adopted through that process will automatically automatically be included for next year's.

Got it.

Because we're little off-site. So when you adopted in December, we would add it in for our.

Okay. That was it. Thank you.

Great. Thank you. Can I move over to you?

No. I just like the chart.

So

it's I think it's really helpful. I

agree. Oh, that's really helpful. And my question was just about clarifying that bridge project with the BSRC thing, so we covered that. So no further questions. I will entertain the move.

I move to forward the draft six year comprehensive transportation improvement program amended 2026 and 2027 to 2032 to the full city council for consideration. Second.

Then move the second. Any final questions or comments? Thank you, Jennifer and staff. I know it's a huge body of work to get it to this point, so thank you for for all of that. All those in favor, signify oh, final comment? No. I got a sign and say aye. Okay. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed? The motion carries. Thank you. Thank you. Alright. Our second briefing item is the Shimker Parkway Trail project. Basil Campos Amiddo, our project manager of public works, and Nate Wozer, our engineering team lead, and are both here to give the presentation. And over to you, Bob. Or three.

Three. Three. Yes.

Well, thank you. Yeah.

Thank you so much, chair Walker and guest committee members. I'm in. As already mentioned, I'm a public works project manager. And then department, company name today is Holly Williams and Nate Bossier from Somus. They're a part of our lead consultant team.

Today, we'll be presenting the 10% design projects update. Next slide. So the presentation that we have here today is for is informational only. It's a, as I mentioned, a 10% design progress update. We'll be going over some project background as well as overview of of the project.

From there, we'll be discussing a little bit about the mapping and analysis to date that we have done and also the user experience and urban design that we have prepared in the 10% design. Following that, we'll go over a bit more of the current status and some of the cost drivers that we have identified, the quantities that you identified in time set design. And then after that, we'll wrap it

up with some next steps.

So back in 2022, 2023, IPS committee had been presented with the the choices of the the different trail options for the Shoe Parkway Trail, and they affirmed that the elevated trail that is being designed right now was a preferred option. From there, we had some money that was set aside by legislature that we had authorized to use. And then from at that point, we then did some solicitation and selection of consultant team to help with the design of the project. During the contracting process, we had determined that we could only get to 30% design level design funding that was set aside. It was the design funding is about $4,000,000 that was set aside, but we had determined that in 2024, well, we had brought the project to, I guess, maybe once again, that design cost of design would be around more of $12,000,000.

And so from there, we had gotten concurrence ahead with just a 30% design from IPS as well as, like, legislature who had provided with the money for the project design. After that, we awarded the contract to go ahead with the the the design, and we're here now in 2025 where we started off in March doing the mapping and analysis. This slide, giving the project extents of the project. The project is a part of the city's pitching to have a trail in the district to Point Defiance. It's also known as the Dome Defiance Trail.

The yellow line, though, is the main part of the project for the Houston Parkway. The at the northern extent, the project's termini is over at South 30 North 30th Street and North Star Street. From there, users would use a existing sidewalk network to get to the the Foss Waterway. There are other projects that are that are conceptualized for this that are described in 2013 conceptual design

report

that provide other connections that are more direct, such as, like, flyovers for the train tracks. Down at the southern extent, it it's the project's termini is at South 4th Street slash Dock Street where it intersects with the which is Parkway. We're also down there, it it the connection is so the district is the waterway. However, we are looking at a connection to downtown in this project that we completed with regards to, like, feasibility study. We're doing a lot of investigation at the at this point in time, and a small stretch was something that we could get a little bit more of an economy of scale with the design effort that we're doing right now.

So we'll be looking at that as well as part of this project, but there won't be any sort of major design that

will be put forth into that.

At this point, I'd like to hand it off to Holly. It's also open for a little bit more of project.

Yeah. So I'm gonna

touch on

the purpose of the and the project schools' quick overview. So this project has been part of the city's vision for more than a decade, beginning with the 2013 conceptual designer mentioned. The goal identified there was to create continuous non motorized connection from the Tomoa Dome to point clients within that to transportation network. Right now, there is no safe direct route from Downtown Spolton on people walking.

So this will help go back. Yeah.

It also sets the stage for future trail extensions and connections. With this project, we'll be building a backbone for a broader regional trail system. So the project goals at this early 10% design stage were focused on the fundamentals that will help shape the entire project as we move forward with the design. So first, kind of the first two main goals are safety and access accessibility. So this is the core driver for the design.

The trail needs to feel comfortable for everyone. So whether you're biking, walking, strolling, rolling, you know, on a on a casual stroll, we just wanna make it comfortable for all users. Second to that is that the city has identified this as a signature destination trail. So that means a wider trail section for all user types that I mentioned, high quality materials, place making elements, highlighting points of interest along the way. This will help activate or or increase that sense of safety.

This trail strengthens the connections between downtown Waterfront and that regional trail network that I spoke to and also supports future improvements potentially like the Bayside Trails. Finally, maximizing views is also a key design driver. So when the trail is enjoyable, dynamic, interesting along the way, that leads to a higher use, a safer environment, and then promotes that strong return on investment that the city will be making. And then with that, to maximize those views, one of the key design is elevating the trail over the the rail cars so we can highlight those views to use the trail.

Next slide, please.

K. So mapping analysis to an analysis to date.

Basically, what we're talking

about here is the design effort that we've conducted today. So we'll start it off with topographic survey. So we and we use that base map then to develop the different concepts and the actual 10% alignment that we're talking about today. In addition to that, we conducted Kirk Larry's investigation, hazardous materials investigation. But what we have done is conducted, like, a 10% paper study looking at some of the existing reports that have been completed in the past, and we also conducted a field visit to assess slips that will be along the.

In addition to that, as Basil was talking about before, we also started a feasibility study to assess a couple of different alternatives or a couple of different to connect downtown between. Next slide, please. In addition to that, we we created a basis and design document. I think that this is a very important document for a project like this. This is a living document that we maintain throughout the creation of design.

In this document, you know, the real intent here is to make sure that we're cataloging and reporting design decisions that are made throughout the design process. The design criteria shape the design steps. We've also defined the conceptual trail alignment. That's the 10% alignment that we were talking about today that meet all of the project goals that have been defined. We've determined actual impacts to Shuster Parkway itself and incorporated those into the the corridor model that we've developed. And we've developed a user experience and urban design documentation that Holly will talk about in a little more detail.

Thanks, So, yeah, so we have these two documents, the user experience document and the urban design document. And these reflect the purpose and goals of the project that I mentioned earlier, and they're also used as a tool to continue to confirm the vision, foster meaningful feedback as we go through continue to go through the stakeholder engagement and generate excitement for the project. Ultimately, hopefully, funding support as well. So these these designs advances the goal of the goals of creating a safe, accessible, and opening trail using CPTED guidelines. So CPTED is a crime prevention through environmental.

Guidelines for a project like this is to have a nice wide trail. Knocked out spots that maximize views, as I mentioned earlier, where people can take rest and, take in the the scenery at small lookouts and overviews in the rest of the areas. Our geotechnical environmental team has identified opportunities or are in the process of identifying opportunities for stabilization and revegetation, so promoting good trail health in the long term. And then for the urban design and placemaking, we want the trail to feel interesting, engaging, dynamic. So whether it's your first time visiting the trail or you use it on a daily basis, this promotes a sense of, you know, just safety and interest.

And when we're looking at the look and feel, want to reflect Tacoma to the Puget Sound with opportunities to tell stories about the history of the region and celebrate the natural

beauty of the area.

And we'll do that through design and public art. We'll be working closely with the city's art and city's arts and cultural vitality group, the tribe of Indians, and other stakeholders just to confirm that authenticity of reflecting Tacoma's fair story.

What's green about with the is the bottom right picture, is that a real place, or is that a conceptual design? You can't know.

Oh, so the

I like

the image.

The images on the left and the right are other examples that are real. The In the middle. The one in the middle is an image that we created for specifically this trail.

Yeah. Just

kind of high level look and feel images. Yeah.

So current status and cost drivers. So where are we at right now? We're at basically the conceptual or 10% design. And right now, what we're doing is we're working with leadership to look at opportunities to kind of reduce some of these cost drivers that are identified in the. Even though we we understand that, you know, the more that we look at some of these cost drivers, they may, you know, affect some of the project goals that we currently have. So that'll need to be part of the conversation moving forward. So three of the major cost drivers that we've identified, walls and fill. This thing's perched up on a very steep slope, somewhat unstable. So there there are a lot of walls. There are a lot of fills.

So we're just looking for within certain areas while still maintaining project goals. Lighting. So as a destination, the lighting design is currently proposed on this project is very, very Based on feedback that we've received during some of the stakeholder engagement, We're we're currently in the process of reducing that lighting as needed to meet both safety and requirements, but eliminating a lot of the the the additional lighting that we currently propose. And then aesthetics. So here, we're not necessarily looking at eliminating the aesthetics of the art or the art design, because I really think that we need to retain those in order to tell the story that we should tell along this corridor.

But what we're looking at is basically developing a conceptual design for the art and the the art of design and building the alignment such that we have space for future development and the infrastructure for future development so that we can take these these kind of aesthetic projects and build them under SEP projects, elevators.

Alright. Next steps, we're gonna be looking to finish up the 10% design. And to do that, we're incorporating the feedback from 10% engagement that we had performed. On 10% engagement was mainly with internal stakeholders such as PES, the utilities, water, fire, or water power in our traffic signal and streetlight division. We also got feedback from our open spaces.

Think I might have mentioned a permitting and development services, but also from, I guess, it is our police departments and fire department. Oh, street ops as well to make sure that we're, you know, providing a trail that is gonna be functional and maintainable and that they can help in keeping make safe. In advancing it from the 10%

to the 30%, we're

also gonna be refining the design, as Nate had mentioned, to balance the cost with the purpose and user experience. We'll be looking to like, Nathan mentioned, possibly look into options where we can better balance the cut and fill of the of the trim design. But at this point, we recognize that doing that might need some more flexibility with regards to the goals. Like, we might not be able to get the goos that we want if we go down and look at those sort of those options. Some of the stakeholders that we might engage during that process would possibly be DB tagged with bike fit and pedestrian technical adviser downtown on the go, members of this committee, and possibly maybe maybe neighborhood councils.

This is still in development at this point, but we'll be looking to do that before we get into 30% design. We'll also be just, in general, be continuing the coordination with stakeholders as we go through this process. We'll be looking to do another round of input once the 30% signs have been completed and so we can, you know, better refine the the trail. There, we'll be exploring also or turning our 10% and our 30 or finish up with the 10% and going into 30%, we'll be exploring different funding sources or potential options for that. We do have a list of typical funding sources.

However, we want to make sure that we strategize what we're gonna be targeting for those funding sources because it's gonna take a number of them. We don't want to include or or exclude other projects that might be also looking for funding as well. Other ways that we'll also be trying to strategize, you know, funding for this project is ways that we can possibly phase project during construction. I'm seeing if we can make it different parts of this into smaller pieces that we can, you know, fund independently, and then maybe the other half, they could be funded later on. Then finally, next steps is, you know, any sort of efforts that IPS team members and customer in lobby support for the project.

Because without that, we might not have a lot of traction with So at this point, I'd like to conclude by opening up the floor for any comments and questions.

Great. Thank you so much. You know you know how excited I am about this project, but it's really fun to see concepts and get excited about obviously, this is an important transportation corridor and an important connection, but I think really thinking about the the destination possibility and the place making part of it. It's really exciting. Some visuals. Alright. I'll open up to the committee for questions first, and and then I have

a couple little ones. Who wants to start?

I got a little one and then a lots of little ones. That's all. Good. Kind of a nonsense one. On Slide 96. There's a different photo in my printout than the one up there. Yeah. I don't particularly care about the one on printout. I was just curious what the one in the slide deck was of it looked kinda like I 90, but there's no there's no cap on I 90. So what is that?

Oh, Newcastle Way. It's Newcastle Way. Yeah. We were trying to find something that would show an elevated sort of walkway that had walls. And

In my mind, I had driven there, so I was just wanting to Yeah. Appreciate that. Thank you.

And sorry for not putting that out.

No. No. It's fine. You didn't know when he's working there. Yeah. And then my other less nonsensical question was just tell me where I've driven. On slide six, you went through all the different topographical surveys and the geotechnical, all these pieces that we did that, in my mind, sort of assess the land situation, the glares, all that. I'm wondering if all of all of this was all done on city land. Like, do we own all of these pieces of land that we're looking at, or are is some of this done on other folks' land?

The this is all resolved has been done on our land thus far. We are during our geotechnical investigation, we obtained a right of entry for a private piece of property to do one of our soil borings. But, yes, this is all been done on well, what has been a part of our land that has been a part of an easement that has come from the railways is my understanding of it.

Okay. So it's all stuff we have or have east side access to Yes. Essentially?

Yes.

I just wasn't asked that because I was curious where it was happening, and I wasn't sure. I couldn't remember if we actually owned all of the land that we're talking about connecting

with Trailer or not. Yeah.

So we do own it all already, or is that gonna be a part of the

That's our understanding at this point. Yeah. It's it's it's either well, there's some parked property, I believe, and but the rest of it is easement that we received from.

Thank you. Great. Thank you, Nathan. Former Diaz. Councilmember Hines, do you have questions?

Sorry.

No. I I don't have any at this time. I think councilor Diaz asked one of my questions, which is right away acquisition. Or, actually, let me refer. A question I do have is so as part of the one of the things I've heard from residents, right, is that this project started at a smaller amount, and then it slowly continued to grow larger and larger and larger and larger. Right? And so I what you've described here makes sense. Setting it up

as a

signature trail with, like, all the bells and whistles attached to it has been a component of the cost. And so as part of this, looking at potentially what we would be pairing back is a way to bring those costs back in line. Is that kind of a fair assessment of what you all were chatting about?

I I believe so. I I I could you repeat the question again, I guess?

I guess I I I guess the question is, right, will we as you go through the process about determining what is the critical piece of the trail, will that slow the cost escalation we seem to have been seeing related to the trail over the last, you know, five to six years I've been on the council. Can you all hear me? Am I not coming through okay?

Yep. You're good. That's sound good.

Yeah. No. I I I believe so. I mean, there are throughout the years when this first started, I think it was, you know, you know, 2013 is, you know, the the the the conceptual, you know, design report that was made. From there until now, there's been a lot of increases in costs as we've seen, you know, throughout the years with inflation. So we're sort of battling that uphill piece of it. So there's that the the cost of materials still out there.

I mean, yeah, I think that gets to part of it, right, which is, you know, I guess, maybe if not for this presentation, but at some point in time, I'd love to know from 2013 to today, how much that cost has been generated by purely inflationary costs of the development? How much of that cost was generated by things we figured out as we started doing testing on the soil and things like that to see what kind of investment levels are needed? And how much of those costs are driven by things we wanted to add as part of this. Right? I guess I'm trying get to a base so I wanna try to explain to the public. I mean, Basil, what what was the price tag in 2013

for the whole product?

What we didn't have. We had back in the in 2013. And so fifteen years later, we have more of a project, and we have cost escalation. So it's not like we added time to the project to make it cost more. We've just figured more things out.

Yeah. Well, then I guess that's good to know the projects. It hasn't the scope itself hasn't been once generated the cost. I I think my thank you, Chair Walker, for explaining that. I just it's becoming a more and more of a challenge with this project with the public saying, in 2013, it was a $40,000,000 project. I'm just I maybe it was smaller than that. And now we're at a 250,000,000 project. And I'm being hyperbolic on both ends, but, like, it has gotten a lot bigger. And the question is, we're still just talking about a trail that's gonna take me from downtown to old town. We're not talking about something more fancy than that. And so I I just this is a good presentation for me to understand and be able to communicate better with the public.

And I think I think it's a really good point, And I think, Nate, you touched on this a little bit too. Like, as we're looking at our costs, we're looking at, yeah, adding some art, adding some things that make a trail, light lighting, you things like that. And those don't actually add a ton of cost, and they add a ton of experience. And so they could be cost cutting measures, but that's not really what we're trying to do. So it yes.

It's still, quote, unquote, just the trails, but those things in my mind are part of just the trails. Absolutely. We're not adding people movers or something like that, which is, I think Yeah. What you're saying, council member Hines, is like, are there big scope items like flyovers and things like that that have been added that have changed the scope? No. We've just figured out more and designed more.

Absolutely. Yeah. And and yeah. We're we're putting a bit more into the design right now than what was before.

It And we will Yeah.

Well and so how much just a reminder. How much has been spent so far on the project to to get to at this point we're at?

In terms of the budget, I think we're at about about a million dollars, I think. And that's out of the 4,000,000, and we still have bit more to go.

And so that so that gives us a 10%. So to I'm not an engineer, but so to go from 10 to 30, are we multiplying that cost times three, or is it

I

I know.

I I but then there's still

more investigations that are still gonna be beyond. Like, I mean, the geotechnical investigation is fairly costly measure in this. And so that is gonna be one of the the pieces that is going to be a big chunk of change.

Okay.

And so that's gonna help us get more information about the soils and the sociability and the analysis that they're gonna have to do with that as well. You know, we're gonna be seeing exactly what the walls that we're gonna need and the amount of steel that will need to be put into them to properly reinforce the the whole the hillside for the trail. So K. Still some investigations that still need to be happening then.

Great. Well, sure. Thank you, Vas. I won't continue to believe at the point, chair walker. I I just I think the more we can try to explain to the public why the cost is there because, I mean, currently, I can run on a sidewalk down that stretch.

So there there's already a trail that's there. I understand it's not quite the what the level of trail service we would like to see for that area, especially for a signature area. So I think just really being clear about why and, again, it's gonna be elevated separate grade, kind of being able to understand clearly why this going from the current sidewalk to this is such a a large, dollar amount. But I don't understand it's slope stability, so there's lots of pieces to it. But I just think the more we can stay focused on explaining that, the better. Making sure.

Yeah. I think that's for. And can we I think maybe my takeaway is you guys come back at 30% when we get some of those costs Mhmm. Analysis sort of over time and where we're at now. Yeah. Go ahead. I think

customer Ives quest remind me of

the question I I had, but

I got distracted by the picture. Is because when they were talking about the aesthetics and what we could bring in or not. Drew my eyes down here to slide 10 where you got sort of the trail and then, like, a piece where people could sit or there's the lighting and then there versus the sidewalk down below. And, obviously, this isn't right with the topography of the whole stretch we're looking at, but this is a good slice of rendering of one of them. I guess my thought is, I think, similar to where heist brain maybe is is, do we have as a city, or will we at some point be developing some sort of a phase phases to this so we could say, obviously, we're 10%.

We're trying to work in the first 10% of design to get to 30% design. But is there clear phases that we could be articulating to the public that say the end of this phase all the design is phase one, say, and the next phase is two where we get just this trail piece,

and then three is where we

get the lights and the benches. Like, is there a

way to start thinking about

how we break that out so that we can better message it to the public, or is that not somewhere where the city is going? Where did you kinda proceed this way?

I think I think the phasing will go. I mean, we're gonna be including the lighting and, you know, the the the the trail as possibly one piece, and we're gonna be looking into phasing in terms of, like, you know, bringing in the art. But, like, first, we wanna,

like, we're considering,

you know, just trying to provide, you know, the trail and and spaces for enhancing it later on. But, also, like, in terms of phasing, like, you know, maybe there's ways that we can,

you know, cut it in half,

which is what I was, I think, trying to describe in the next steps part of this is that, you know, maybe there's a possibility of, you know, doing half of it to one point, and then, you know, it it it gets to a certain point, and then we can possibly do the the next half. But in terms of, you know, phasing, you know, whether we bring in the lighting at a different point in time, you know, if we bring in lighting at a different point in time, then we have a dark

trail.

And there is a safety aspect of it. Yeah. So, hopefully, that answers your question.

That that does. I think I just didn't know I didn't know what products we're hoping to produce from staff, and so I was just trying to get at that. Like, is there a product you're still driving towards in terms of what phasing would look like so we can explain it? Mostly thinking with this thought around having IPS committees lobby for for more funding, it's helpful to articulate for, like, state capital funding.

Yeah.

Here's what here's what the Cadillac version of this looks like versus help us fund, like, the the tricycle version of this. Right? So, yeah. I just don't know when we get there. I assume y'all get there eventually. I was just curious if that's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How this works

or not.

And that's what I believe that's what we're trying to to do between this 10 and this 30% because we're we're noticing that we have high quantities of fill and high high quantities of wall gonna be major costs for the project. And so if there's ways that we can be flexible on some of the goals, maybe we can figure out a way that, you know, if we can reduce the the the height of the trail, then we can possibly reduce the amount of fill that we need or the amount of of of walls. But we'll be trying to figure that out between this 1030% through

a little bit more stable engagement.

Cool. Thank you. Makes sense to me. You're basically still trying to assess the land before you can count me a map or a picture

of it.

Yeah.

Thank you. Great. Thanks.

Nice to

meet Yeah. Thank you. I have a couple of questions. Set. But I did wanna mention in in the height of pandemic, I live on McKinley Hill, and I did drop a bike all the way over to Pointe Blinds, went around, and came

back. Back. I killed myself that day.

But I did go on Dock Street, went around, and did the current three foot wide sidewalk. It wasn't terrible except for, you know, a few 100 feet that are right next to the highway right there because then it actually veers away, and it's it's nicer. So having done that, I could totally see how a much nicer trail would really add a lot of benefit. My question because I think this is done right before I got on the council in 2024. I understand $4,000,000 gets 30%.

And then in 2024, we thought that it was really 12,000,000 to get a 100% design. I wanted to know on the design side, which is that $8,000,000? Yeah. It's like, what do we get for the 30%? What does $8,000,000 get us beyond the 30% of design.

That's what we were hoping to get to the the full design. That to a fully fundable project. Or not fully fundable, but, you know, constructive project.

But what is it in the the what is the $8,000,000 worth that we haven't funded that we still will need to do? There we go. So

and and, Nate, I don't know if you can Yeah. Figure out a little bit.

Yeah. You know, so it's it's basically, I mean, we have a lot of the design systems that'll be nailed down at least for the criteria, but a lot of the actual design, like the harder calves, especially for, like, structural, a lot of the storm water stuff. During this 30% design, it's still gonna be a preliminary look at everything, and we're getting that 30 to a 100%. There's, you know it's just I I guess the bottom line is 30%, you're still preliminary. There's still a lot of decisions that you can make, and then you get to a 100%.

All those counts are nailed down. Everything's constructible. Everything's been thought through. All the wall types are there. You know what the sods are gonna be.

You know where all the storm water's gonna be. You know,

the underdrains are gonna be for slope stability. The the fact that this is on such an unstable slope is the reason why it's so complicated.

Will 30% give us an estimate for total cost? Yes. Okay. Yes. But 100% will give us the real total cost as of that day because then we'll actually know how many units we have to buy.

Yeah. I mean, the 30%, there's still gonna be some. So things are still gonna be pretty it's gonna be prices are gonna be still a little bit of a click just because there's unknowns right there. But by the time we get to a 100%, you know, that that conservative pricing kinda goes out the window, and we have actual pricing based on whatever the market is or the billing department is right now based on what we know we wanna build. Sure.

And or if I could add to that a little bit. So it's like also, like, beyond the 30%, we'll be looking into the environmental permitting as well as, like, right away positions if we need them. We'll be seeing exactly, like, kind of, you know, hammering out a lot of the details and and and stuff that as we determine, you know, what sort of impacts we are we're gonna have.

Got it. So then the question I have is, it's when will 30% be done, And then how much longer after that before we get to a 100%? Because it feels like it's gonna be a decade before we even have the cost for this. Right?

Or, like We're hoping that that this is that that this effort is gonna be done, and and correct me if I'm wrong, eight seven, year towards the end of 2027.

Okay. So it'll be another year and a half before we get to 30% done, and then we still need to come up with the the money to do a 100% to really know what the cost is gonna be. So it could be quite a ways off, right, in in time. I just

wanna kinda get It's better than when we can get funding or if we can get the funding for the rest

of the stuff.

It's when we can kinda carry it forward.

Yeah. I was I was gonna suggest you know? Because then the other question I have to ask then is and because a constituent's gonna ask it, and I'm gonna ask the same thing because I've actually biked on it. Why can't you just make the sidewalk wider, the existing sidewalk wider?

Yeah. Right? It's three feet wide

right now. Kinda sucks to be right next to the the highway. Make a six or eight foot sidewalk comes to that cost, so I can't even do that. If she wants to answer that.

Yeah. Maybe at at the next IPS when you get to 30%, you can address the the disability study that was done in 2013, which specifically addresses your questions. Because as part of the the the options, look at that disability study, was not great. And water sidewalks was the key. We're getting to the slope. We ended up having the same situation in the walls. But getting into the street were required to eliminate

a traffic. So all that was

sort of studied at the at the disability study, which the elevated trail was the preferred alternative at that point. That's how it moved into when we are right now. 10%. So maybe the 30% briefing, you can bring a little bit of that feasibility study just to provide that historical historical It would

be really helpful to understand. Yeah.

Because it it was specific where you are addressing why we don't go on that grade. Increase the the width of the sidewalks,

and it

was some elements that prevented that to be a visible option. Yeah.

I mean, listen. Waterside trails like this, I mean, New York City, you spent generations developing those. You know, where I grew up in Queens, we finally have one that connects Queens and and Brooklyn, the East River over there. And I was gonna suggest how they did it over there. They just went into the river and created one on pylon. We can't do that because we have, you know, the most the busiest grain transport place, and then we got the oh, what's that ship? We got the names of the ship over there. So they're in the way, so we have to stay in the hospital ship. So we have to stay on land. I was gonna ask, you know, why can't we just take a a lane away?

You know? Because, you know, there's some people to complain about all the speeders on that that road and whether that's possible. So it would be really nice to know what the other options back then were because it has been thirteen years for yeah. To this point. Yeah. No. I really sent

that out before. You're twenty third.

You don't need to wait for 30% design.

Yeah. Yeah.

We can provide

information. Yes. Yeah.

I I I think the goal is would be wonderful if we get there in a reasonable time and a reasonable cost because it is really beautiful over there. When you're farther away from the traffic, you can get a moment to look. Yeah. There is a gorgeous view.

Thank you. Great. Thank you, vice chair. I think that most of the things that I had made notes on have been covered. Can you I know you showed in that first map the connections on both ends. The the one to downtown is being studied. The one to the water, but it's not. Right? This, like, assumes we just dump into Old Town.

Yeah. In the Old Town, and I I believe that if we have we'll be looking at ways that we can enhance that connection moving forward. But at that point at this point, it's not a part of the project. Like, maybe widening sidewalks could be an option in that area.

It feels like a sticky traffic situation Yes. Because it's such a thriving business district, but good to just know what the scope is. And then we talked about slope stability and that piece of it. And you talked a little bit about the on the next steps, you talked about stakeholders and doing outreach. Right now, we haven't done any public facing sort of open house or anything in recent the recent project.

The stakeholder outreach would be sort of the first that these folks are hearing about the project again after 2013 as well. Right? Correct. Okay. And the timing of that, we still don't know, or is that

We don't know. 2026. Okay. We're a bit more of a Brazil developing a bit how we wanna go about that in case

you have budget workouts.

Great. And then I guess this is actually maybe a question for Jennifer. This project is in the tip. Right? Yes. Okay. Okay. And last one, just like not important question, but just curious. I feel like I read a lot of articles about city projects and particularly transportation projects using reuse or reusing fill, garbage use you know, from another project where they're having to dig out a, you know, basement for high rise or something. Have we is that a thing, and is that something we could look into?

It depends on, you know, what that dirt is and what it's made up of as well as whether it's contaminated or not. You know, we and if it's if it if, like you said, it's garbage. I've I've I've seen sites that are actually built on landfills, and they have major problems with that. But, you know, that that that could be a possibility of looking into, like, where we can get filled. But, like, I mean, it it would need to be the right fill, you know, depending on, you know, the certain makeup of it.

Like, if it has, like, too much clay or silt, it won't be as easily compactable and be battling with it, and it won't be easily draining. So, I mean, there's there's sort of definitely a lot of aspects.

But there are companies that that do, like, look at fill and tell us if it's the kind of fill we need? Yes.

The the geotechnical

consultants that we Okay. We could possibly, yes, look at that and add it as part of, you know, we'll be looking into the soils and that we're cutting from the hillside.

Oh, okay. So it's like Sure. Sure.

Sure. But that's where we both balancing balancing the custom fill. Yeah. Is it if

we cut it up here,

we can move it down to the parts where we need to fill it, potentially, if it's the right material. Yeah. Because, yeah, if you don't have the right material, really affects the construction costs.

I serve on the board of another agency that's planning a very large tunnel.

Okay. Imagine there

would be a lot of that

would come out of that tunnel.

Yeah. And

maybe the timing would be perfect. I don't know. K. This is not my area of expertise, clearly. But alright. Well, thank you for this update. I think there's a couple things if you all can share with us, you know, sooner than later, and then we'll look forward to the 30% design when when we're ready.

Sounds great.

Great. Thanks. Alright. Before we leave, we have a couple housekeeping things in our topics for upcoming meetings. Alright. On May 27, we're gonna be. And the 2026, the Remodel Management Annual Update. On June 10, there will

be planning commission interviews and parking code updates.

Also, this is Marvin who will be

doing many Anna things after we. Oh, alright.

Alright. So earlier this week, the committee received a letter from the climate and sustainability commission on the sound transit investments. This letter was sent to the committee today along with the meeting materials and will be available to the public on Legislature after this meeting. Do any of my colleagues want to discuss that letter? Sure.

I just wanted to say I really appreciated the letter. It it went into a lot of really good details of the funding issues in Sound Transit. I also wanna share that I, myself, have made a statement on encouraging the Sound Transit Board to take equity into consideration with some some real hard data from one of the ZIP codes that I represent. And I realized I should share it with the entire committee and not just the check, which I did. So I will make sure we we share it with with everyone else.

Great. Thank you. Anyone else? Comments on the climate and sustainability commission letter? Nope. Alright. Since our last meeting, has anyone visited our committee's boards and commissions? Yes. Pleasure.

I have the pleasure and honor of attending a meeting of I guess it's PTAG. Right? Yeah. PTAG. There you go. Got it. Parking technical advisory group. Fascinating presentation they put on around parking violation rates and things that suggested that if we could fit it in this year.

Yep. That

should from the June 10. You know?

That will be in the June 10

agenda. I'm really looking forward to it.

I

really really appreciate all the members over there. They're very engaged. As always, I am always surprised by how hard people work for no money for this city in all these groups because they they really put something they they cared really very deeply to see that. So I I appreciate

meeting them.

Awesome. Thank you for attending and for bringing that content back to the committee. Any other items of interest? Alright. Seeing none, I will entertain the final motion.

I move to adjourn. Second.

All in favor, simply aye by saying aye. Aye. Senator.