Planning and Zoning Board - Regular Meeting

Can we get our IT up, please? George has given me a new challenge, so. I see Genesis, I see, okay. All right, Madam Clerk, would you, let's go ahead and welcome everyone to Planning and Zoning. Madam Clerk, would you please call the roll?

Yes, Chair. Chair Licor? Here. Vice Chair Cervantes?

Here.

Forum Member Chavez?

Here.

Chair, you have a quorum. Great, thank you. I don't see our town commission liaison here yet, so let's move. Chair, if I may, Commissioner Mildostegui will be coming in later. Okay. He will be a little bit late. All right, we'll move that to the end then. Approval of minutes from last time. Any comments, questions, or a motion for approval?

Motion for approval. Is there a second? Second.

I have a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Moving forward, agenda and order of business. Like we just mentioned, we'll move the town commission liaison report to the end. And then I just spoke with our planner about discussion item 8B, not being ready for discussion tonight. So I'd like a motion to remove that from the agenda.

Okay, motion to remove 8A and 8B?

Just 8B.

Just 8B?

Yep.

Okay, 8B.

Do I have a second?

Second.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye. Any opposed? Any other changes to agenda or order of business? Seeing none, I'll move forward to number five, applications, starting with 9264 Byron Avenue with our town planner.

Chair, if I may read the statement.

Yes, why do I always forget that, sorry.

Not a problem. Tonight's meeting of the Planning and Zoning Board is an in-person meeting as set forth in the town code. Applications in section five of this meeting's agenda are quasi-judicial in nature. For each application, following presentation by staff and the applicant, the board may take public comment, then close public comment, allow for rebuttal by the applicant, and then deliberate on a resolution. The quasi-judicial procedures require this board to consider the evidence presented to it and base its decision on applicable law and primarily the evidence presented, whether by staff, applicant, or the public. The applicable law includes standards for issuance of design review approval pursuant to Section 90-19 of the Town Code, the design standards set forth under Section 90, Article 5 of the Town Code, and the signed code pursuant to Section 90-68. Article 6 and related sections under Chapter 90, Articles 7 and 8 of the Town Code as applicable. The evidence considered must be substantial competent evidence, meaning testimony or other evidence based on personal observation or relevant expert testimony that reasonable minds accept as adequate to support a conclusion. The Board's conclusions are not to be the result of a popularity contest and may not be solely based on non-expert opinions. Anyone seeking to speak on an item should be given an opportunity to speak. Anyone seeking to testify on any item in Section 5 of this agenda should be sworn before testifying and may be subject to cross-examination. Anyone testifying without being sworn or subject to cross-examination may do so, but such testimony may be considered in that context and given its due weight. The public may not cross-examine witnesses, but may request this board to ask questions of staff or the applicant. Anyone who seeks to testify on any item in Section 5 of this agenda should now rise and be sworn by the clerk.

Please rise if you plan to speak tonight. George, you speaking? OK.

Please rise and raise your right hand. Do you swear an affront to the truth and only believe the truth? You may be seated.

Clerk, please confirm compliance with the advertising and notice requirements.

Confirm.

Members of the board, have any of you had any ex-party communications about any of the applications now before you?

Yes.

No. Chair, which application?

The 9264 Byron. I spoke with the applicant.

Do you believe you can still be fair and impartial in considering the application?

Yes.

Anyone else?

Me too. Yeah, 9264.

Do you believe you can still be fair and impartial in considering the application?

Yes.

Thank you.

Back to me.

Okay.

Madam planner.

Yes, good evening. The first item today is an application for an addition to a new home. They're requesting approval for an addition, a single family home located at 9264 Byron. The applicant proposes adding 582 square feet to what is currently a single family home consisting of 1,574 square feet. The home will remain a one story structure. The property is 5,628 square feet in size. and no variances are requested. The addition will be located in the front of the home. The applicant's design elements include taupe 3D natural stone for the main facade and new paint color for the wall materials and finishes, aluminum post column louvers, and dark wood impact door. A new five foot high wall aluminum fence and new flat tile roof on the addition, an existing garage, but not on the entire home. Based on the value of the home, the cost of the addition remains less than 50% of the value and the FAR will be 0.38 and the lot coverage will remain less than 50% which is allowed for a single story home. The applicant first came before you at the last meeting and has made revisions based on the board's comments and looks forward to hearing your comments tonight. With that, staff recommends approval.

Thank you. Welcome back. If you would state your name and address for the record. I'm not sure that's on. There's a button at the base.

I got it. Kaylee Savitz and Alfredo Leon. 2330 Northeast 192nd Street, Miami, Florida 3316.

Great, thank you. So what's changed since we last saw you?

We changed whatever you told us to change.

Do you want to walk us quickly through the changes or do you want to just go right to discussion?

All right. Okay. Yeah, we try to to make this house look a little bit more into the style we want. We really like the slanted roof in the front to be important and it was very good decision. I guess it was from Carlos suggestion to put a big glass on top, which I think that that will help to make it more, into the style that we want to accomplish. In the garage roof, we wanted to do the same but in the opposite way. So it combines the same effect of what we have in the main, what it called the main roof, which is going to be like a 14 feet, 15 feet high roof. So it is very important. that we continue with the same idea. And that's why we decide to do like another slanted roof to go with it. And I think that it makes it a really nice design. We planning to use, as we told you, in these two roofs, a flat roof, and it's gonna be like a dark, graphite color, and we want to combine the effect of that dark color into the fascia as well, making a little bit of that color into the fascia so it looks like it's all one piece on the roof. And we use these vertical aluminum columns it will be more or less this, it can be a little bit bigger, and we're gonna install it in the front to make that as an accent in this open area in the front where the new living area will be.

Sorry, no, just to add on to that, we changed the material because last time we discussed that they were going to be like a wood metal finish. We took that out and we changed it to just the net, the power.

Thanks for that clarification because I think the packet still shows the wood.

So it's this, it's going to be this material. We can bring it to them to see. And then material wise also, we have other tiles for you to see because we took out that other natural stone tile that I had brought last time. And so we have a smaller scale tile and then another. We have two more still there from the,

You got to speak into the microphone, please.

In the front planter, we want to use as well as part of the entrance wall, this accent tile that would be, you know, kind of the accent of the facade. At the beginning, we wanted to do like a 3D stone or tile, but the suggestion was to put go better with something flatter, and we decided something that looks more like a concrete tile, and we brought some samples. It can be in a big scale, like 24 by 48, or more like a subway pattern. We brought that idea, too, in case that, you know. tones or this is a natural cement in these tones and then this one is a sample of a piece that comes in 24 by 48 for a bigger scale so the combination of the of the house will be at the end the topic color and the dark bronze and the graphite color of the roof as a fascist as well and some accent tones, also earthy colors on this accent wall in the front and planter to give a little bit more of a difference in textures in the front besides the aluminum louvers. And we're planning to do the front driveway in concrete, also to match with the color of very light concrete to go with the house. And the color of the house would be all the same kind

the one that we have in the materials page, the snowbound.

Yeah, we specify the color there. I forgot. The snowbound, no? It was a snowbound color from Sherwin-Williams. So I don't know if I can leave it here. Yeah.

And then we also edited the window sizing all throughout the front facade so that they're all more even. So it was the windows, the roof material, the louvers, the stone material, and the garage roof that was really the main changes that we made.

Great. Thank you. Does anyone from the public wish to speak on this matter? Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing and open it to the board.

I want to start by saying the idea, the first one that brought the idea of bringing the window on top of the front door was me. OK. But anyway, so, yeah, I see also the windows. It's really a different house for me. So I like it. And I like when people are remodeling their houses. Just mind about the lights that you put there, that they're not bright. You know, they're not white bright, okay? And then, well, the colors, well, you know, I'm more about, like, whites and grays and all that. I'm not an architect, so I'll leave it to these guys to discuss. But it's a nice house. And just the garage door, yeah, I don't know. It's a garage door, right? It's not just going to be a fake garage.

No, it's going to be a garage door.

What is the material? It's hard to tell.

It's an aluminum garage door. It's an aluminum garage door that has that. We're going to try to find the same texture and color of the main door entrance that it will be also in wood. So that matches both. Both of them are going to be matching each other. So we don't have many materials of different colors. We're going to try to copy the same color of the main door Gotcha.

Just a comment on that, and I'll leave it to you guys and mostly to Carlos, I guess.

It's okay. We all have opinions.

No, I know, but because of the trying to match the garage door with the main door, with the front door, sorry, maybe for me it's not... something that I like, because I think if you compare the large window that you have on the left with the garage door, it has nothing to do with it, right? So I would probably go with something more, matching more that side than the front door, right? That's my only comment. And the lights, and yeah.

Okay, thank you. Andrea?

I don't have comments.

Okay, Carlos?

I have a few. Let's just clarify it and, you know, when we're doing something that is at the end fairly simple material-wise, I think it's a little bit more helpful to get an exact decision about what these materials are because in a house of this size and of the scale of the houses of Surfside, the selection of a garage door, It's actually a big deal. It's a huge percentage of what the facade is. So to me, understanding exactly what material of that garage door is compared to what the front door is, these are big deals to me in terms of understanding what the house is going to look like. In terms of the clad, I want to go over... Sorry, I lost the perspective. I want to go over sort of the... The materials, because I'm a little bit lost. I mean, you showed me the two versions of one. One had a flat roof, and the other one had the slanted roof. I'm actually going to leave it up to you to choose one. I think it's, you know, I'm trying to understand the house the way that you wanted to design it, not the one that I would design it. So I think the slanted roof on the garage kind of works.

That's what's being presented here. We don't have the flat roof.

No, but when we discussed it here. I know, but. Right. So I'm just saying that this is the one that we're going with. So as materials go, I'm seeing the windows themselves sort of shown as kind of a white aluminum. don't see how white aluminum goes with that bronze aluminum and then you have the gray cladding on the planter and then you have a sort of a wood door with a maybe wood like garage door do you understand what i'm saying in terms of the scheme of the materials i think that they don't work together. And I think that one has to be, it's such a small house. I mean, you should minimize the amount of materials that you have in such a facade.

We can create the garage. I mean, we can do the garage door also in white to be minimal there and only get the color of the wood or the main door to go more with the color of the tile that we chose.

I just think that if you're going to go with, I don't know what material that is. It looks like some kind of aluminum, I would imagine. So I think that you're going to go with aluminum, and the windows are presumable, you know, it's presumed to be aluminum also. I think that I would go with the same material for the window. So, you know, the house is cohesive because it looks like you won the windows in the lottery. So it just doesn't...

We want to make an effect if you see the render.

No, I see the render. I just don't think it's cohesive as having two different kinds of aluminum on a facade.

So what is the effect you're going for with the aluminum frames?

Okay, so the white aluminum frames for the windows are to match the existing house because all the existing windows have white aluminum frames.

You're not replacing all the windows?

No.

Okay.

So that's the reason for that choice. And then we wanted to contrast it with the bronze, but maybe we can turn those into white instead of bronze.

It's your choice.

That's how it's in the rendering, I think, anyway, isn't it?

No, it shows the bronze.

Zoom in. Oh, gotcha. Yeah, it shows bronze. Just to have some contrast against the whiteness.

I think also the placement of those fins, it's a little bit odd to me because they seem to be sliding to the left towards the door. It doesn't have to have, I don't know what they're centered with. They don't look to be centered on the window below.

Yeah, if you see the elevation. We can also... make the door in the same color of the aluminum.

They're centered on that main larger window there. So they line up with the larger window. I think it's maybe because you have that other window.

You have that other window that's clear.

So you have, what that window is made out of is a fixed panel with an operable window to the right? Yes. Correct. Is that what it's lining up with?

Correct. And that same is repeated on the left side. On the other corner. On the other corner. It's repeated there. So that's why they, this window. This window or this side. Yeah.

So this has to be an operable? You got to come back to the mic or we got to give you a, oh.

That window has to be operable. So the left window is the picture window and then the right one is operable. And that's why the louvers are in that placement.

Okay. Just for explanation.

So I, the cladding.

In the mic.

The microphone.

Correct me if I'm wrong. If the cladding is, in bronze, you think that it doesn't go with the aluminum of all the house, okay, we can put it in white, so it will be the five posts can be in white, the same material, but in matte white, or we can leave it, make the garage door disappear in the front facade in white, in the same color and tone of the house, and then just the door, The main door and the cladding in the front will be the same color to match, meaning the door. The main door will be the same dark bronze. We can find the door, the wood, we can get the wood, the mahogany wood, stain it in a dark color, very similar to the aluminum. That will be one option. Or leave it all white and just leave the door in a light color.

I think that the bronze material doesn't make sense in the house. I think that if you're gonna add windows to a house that exists and the windows are white aluminum, I think you should just keep on going with the white aluminum so it's more cohesive and just, I don't care for the, I don't care.

I like the white garage door because we're not calling attention to the garage door.

Yeah, okay. So let me wrap it, I'm gonna wrap it up very quickly. I think the garage door should be white because it's just, you don't want to call attention to the garage door. I think it should just be a white garage door.

Okay.

I think that your fins, if you want to keep them, I don't love the fins, but if you want to keep them, I think that should definitely be white. Correct. I think the door should not be striped the way that you're showing. I think it should be... a very beautiful door, it should be very rich, or if you're gonna do a wood, it should be something very special, because you're making now the house a lot quieter, you're making everything very white and very quiet, so I think that you should choose probably a beautiful, you know like in mid-century houses, in case study houses, the front door was always either coated a very beautiful wood or a bright color, I think your door should pop. And I think it, not pop in a color, but I think it should pop in a very rich wood, maybe like a deep, you know, wenge or something, ipe or something like expensive, okay?

Instead of a light color. Yeah, I hate that light color.

I think it should be dark and red. And then the other thing, I don't know what the eave is. I'm very confused about the color of the eave is. I don't know. You said graphite.

Which of these colors is the eave? Or is that a painted eave? No, it's painted. Painted. And which color? Because I don't think we have that color in here. It's like a gray. We have snowbound.

Yeah, snowbound are the walls.

Snowbound is some kind of, it's a creamy, it's a white that you have. And then you want the eave to be what, like pop of color?

It would be a dark color, but not as dark as the flat roof tile.

Because you keep on saying a dark graphite, a dark graphite, and I see it represented very light. So I think it should definitely not be a dark graphite color.

Well, the ceiling, if you look at the material, the ceiling, I mean, I'm sorry, the roof materials, the flat tile roof color graphite.

Madam Chair, if the speaker can speak into the microphone, please.

Here, I'll scroll down to the material page. The material page is this. We have the flat tile roof in a graphite color. So that's why.

So the rendering is incorrect. What you are going for is the eaves to match the graphite.

In a lighter version because it's too dark.

Well, graphite is almost black, and you're showing a very light kind of creamy gray. So it's very, it's not what the house would look like at all.

It will be the lighter color, the lighter version like we showed in the render.

Okay, so not graphite. No. What color is it? Is it a gray? Is it?

This is going to be the graphite tile, which looks very similar to this. It will be something like this color.

Why are you, let me backtrack. Why are you going with such a dark tile for, what is the rest of the house? The rest is just a flat roof in the rest of the house?

No, it's asphalt. But we can't use asphalt in the new, I mean, yeah.

No, no, I'm not saying to use.

You can pick a different color.

Why are you marrying it to such a dark, I mean, it doesn't seem very suitable for a mid-century sort of revivalist house to have a dark graphite. It's just not something.

Are you not replacing the whole roof? No. That's why. You should. How old is that roof?

Yeah, that's why, because we're matching with the existing.

I just don't see a flying cake of graphite. These two flying cakes of graphite color tile doesn't seem to make sense sitting on top of a house that is Becoming a little bit more ethereal in spirit. Do you know what I mean? It's just the wrong color and the wrong... It's just the wrong color for the... I'm not telling... I mean, I'm saying just pick a different... Pick a lighter tile.

Where is the existing flat roof or the existing asphalt tiles in comparison to this? Can you even see it?

You don't see it at all. No, you're not going to see it. So, I mean, I think...

No, I just think that if we're going with the white aluminum and the deep, I think the graphite is just too dark. It doesn't make sense. There are many different shades of grays that would be more suitable. It would be prettier for the house. A dark roof on the house is not going to look good. So I think we should go with a lighter gray. I think it's more suitable with the palette. And then there are two more things I'm going to say. I'm trying to make the house better, not give you a hard time. I think that, let's go back to the, in the planter. I think the planter has to be something, I think the cladding on this looks like a bathroom tile to me. It doesn't look expensive enough. I mean, you're doing it fairly modest. I think that that, to me, shouldn't be clad with anything. I think that, to me, should be made out of Like it or not, one of the biggest gestures you make is that planter. It's the biggest piece of masonry you're putting there. In my view, I think this is way too mingy and too sad-looking, too clouded in these tiles.

I don't know if I can show this in the...

I don't know if there should be a monolithic poured concrete or it should be, to me, you should pour that thing out of concrete so it's raw concrete. Form more. A form. Form it with concrete and make it chiquer and elevate the value and the beauty of the house one step up. Because cladding in that tile is just going to make it like an old sad house that you just tiled the planter with.

OK.

I don't think it's going to cost you any more or any less.

I'm going to show you one picture of what this planning should look.

Yeah, come on. You can show us. Of course you can.

No? I mean, honestly, I'm actually trying not to increase your cost, just actually make the house better.

It's an interesting application, but not on a planter.

No, no, no. Actually, exactly no. That's exactly what I was thinking it was going to look like.

So are you done?

No. I said two more.

I'm trying to. Oh, you have two more?

Well, we have, I'm trying to, you know, we're going to move forward. So I'm just saying, to me, my suggestion, it's my personal suggestion. To me, I will pour that, I will form concrete so you elevate the house and it becomes a more significant house. The other thing I have a problem with is the stepping of the front driveway on the walk side of the house. That staggering of the... Why is that staggered like that?

What do you mean staggered? I didn't even pick that up.

On the walk, you see how they're not straight.

Oh, they keep coming out.

They keep coming out.

That's a design in order to make it not just a flat entrance. So we did that. That I like more importance in the front and getting into the door space. It's a design with the...

Does that meet the pervious front yard? Because that's an awful small front yard.

Yes.

Yeah, visually I was just thinking the same thing.

I'm just looking at it right now. We would prefer green versus paved.

I mean, I'm suggesting just to make it straight and landscape that yard because the percentage is tilting the house off to the wrong side. Okay, I think it, you should make more lashes and more landscape to the left and just make it straight across.

So yeah, it does meet the code.

It looks like you almost want to park two cars in front of the house. Do you know what I mean? It's my intention. I know, but that's what I mean. I think you should cut it. And then I'm done.

Great comments. Thank you. I think I concur with all those comments as well. I think they will elevate the home, really make it feel cohesive and beautiful. So if you're willing to accommodate those, I think we can move you forward.

Yes, absolutely.

One other way.

And one last comment, very quickly. The pool, you're building a pool, right? I did the same. I have the same piece of land. And if you align the pool with the house line, I think it would be better than aligning it with the property line. Because you have a pool that is like this, and the house is here. If you see the, I think it's, I don't remember the pool.

Here.

Can you pick it up? You see, it's tilted. because of the property line, I understand why.

Align it with the house.

But if you align it, it's better and based on my experience. Oh, absolutely.

Good catch, yeah. So I'm gonna I'm gonna read what I think our conditions for approval are for the clerk Yeah, and then I'll entertain a motion for approval with those Commission with those conditions We we are changing the the pillar structures to a white aluminum. We're changing the garage door to a white Aluminum I believe as well we are changing the planter treatment to be some sort of concrete, poured or formed. We are making the walkway to the front door linear, straight. We are having a beautiful wood door in a high-quality Ipe or Wenge type wood, and we are doing light gray roof tiles and eaves. Did I get everything?

Yes.

And then align the pool, that's really not under our purview, but we suggest you align the pool with the house.

You got every one of them.

Okay, got it, okay. One last question, are you removing trees? No. Okay, great. Then I can entertain a motion for approval with those conditions.

Motion to approve with the conditions we just stated. Is there a second? Second.

Okay, Madam Clerk, please call the roll. Yes, Chair. Board Member Aparicio?

Yes.

Board Member Chavez?

Yes.

Vice Chair Ciavanni? Yes. Chair LeCour? Yes. Motion carries. Great, thank you. Good luck.

Thank you. Our pleasure. We appreciate it. Appreciate your feedback.

All right, moving forward to ordinance. Madam Chair, excuse me if I may. I would like to recognize we have our new town manager, and he would like to introduce himself to the board. Welcome. Yes, please do.

Hello. Chairwoman board members. Good evening. My name is Mario Diaz. I am. Today's my first day. So I apologize if I don't know everything. Um, I am the acting town manager, uh, for Surfside. Um, and I am excited to be here. We have a great team in place. Um, however I can be of service to you and to the community. I am here.

Thank you. You were with the town prior, or you're stepping in? No, I'm stepping in. What is your experience, background?

Sure. So I have over 20 years of, or about 20 years of government experience. Early in my career, I was predominantly in the communication and governmental affairs sector for about the last... three, four, maybe six years, I've been a senior executive, ranging from chief of staff to most recently city manager of North Miami Beach, in which I stepped down after some personal issues that I had to deal with. This is not new to me. I was recently the president of the City Managers Association for Miami-Dade. I'm currently on an executive board for National Association. I've won Rising Star Award in 20, was it 22 or 23 for the State of Florida City Managers Association, so pretty well versed. I tend to leave planning and zoning to the experts, As I am not, but I do love being able to work with you all and making sure that we protect the beautiful charm of our communities and in this case Surfside. So however I can help do that while also helping new families achieve their dreams and being an integral part of the community, I think that's a great way to move forward.

Great. Thank you so much. Welcome.

I look forward to meeting you in person after.

Thank you. Okay, moving forward to our ordinances. Madam Clerk, would you please read the ordinance?

Yes, Chair. Item 6A, an ordinance of the Town Commission of Town of Searcy, Florida, amending ordinance number 2024-1785, which amends section 90-45 setbacks and 90-49 law standards in the H-38 and H-2B districts, provided for its availability, provided for inclusion in the code, provided for conflicts, and provided for an effective date. Item 6A. Thank you. Who will be presenting this item?

Is that you, Scarlett, or town attorney?

It is. I thought we were going to have this on next agenda, so I'm not entirely prepared. A few days ago, we had the second reading of this at the town commission, and they kind of wanted it to come back to you for a few more days. TWEAKS. SEE FROM MY MEMORY WHAT THEY WERE. IN 90-45 SUB PARAGRAPH B, THE They did not agree with the strikeout of that the 17 feet in height or substantial improvement to an existing home would not apply to additions of existing homes. So that was a strikeout that we took out to make that change.

Sorry, you lost me. Okay. So they did not, what does that mean? So they do not want this to apply to additions?

They do want it to.

So the strikeout is a change since we've seen this?

Yes.

Would it be helpful to pause this item until the commissioner comes? Yes, that would be fine. Okay. Do we need to do a motion to do that? No? Okay. So let's just put a pin in that one. Let's move forward to some of the discussions and then we'll come back. Yeah. So next meeting date is December 17th.

Yes, Madam Chair, I'll say if I may. I had put in front of all the board members the dates for next year and for your review. As you all know, the meeting takes place every last Thursday of every month. The only day that was changed was December to December 17th that we do move up due to the holidays. AND THEN NOVEMBER AS HISTORICALLY WE DO NOT HAVE MEETINGS IN NOVEMBER AS WE COMBINE THEM WITH DECEMBER DUE TO THE HOLIDAYS AS WELL. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR THAT. I WOULD LIKE TO ASK IF THE BOARD CAN MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THESE MEETING DATES.

OKAY. IF THERE'S AN ISSUE WE CAN ALWAYS CHANGE THINGS. THIS IS LIKE OUR PRELIMINARY. YES. OKAY. ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS OR A MOTION TO APPROVE THESE DATES?

Well, as of now, motions are approved.

Okay.

I second.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Okay, there you go. Thank you. Thank you for planning ahead. All right, that moves us to our discussion items, beginning with 9164 Froud Avenue, presentation by Carlos Eddy. Come on up.

Thank you, uh, Carlos setting nine one six four fraud Avenue. Uh, I was there on the last commissioner's hearing. Uh, the question was, which I was the one that kind of questioned, uh, uh, because I saw the meeting that you guys had and I reviewed it at the suggestion or the writing on the second reading says is 17 feet. But is it from NGVD? Is it from Crown of the Road? That was the confusion. Because if it's 17 foot from Crown of the Road, then it renders any new development single story, pointless. You can't have 17 feet because you're already eating up seven feet to go from Crown of the Road to NGVD. Therefore, you only have 10 feet, nine and a half feet. of building itself. So was the proposal to reduce the size, the height of the house from 22 to 17? Or was the proposal to do it 17 from NGVD, so you don't have a 30, but a 27, let's say?

I believe it's the former, but we'll need to refresh ourselves. I'm not sure we're entirely prepared to, George, you wanna? George probably remembers.

George Kooslis, 9225 Collins Avenue. You have to be sworn in.

You did not stand up.

You didn't stand up?

No, it's not an application. It's for the application. Raise your hand.

It's a discussion. It's a discussion.

I just want to see the hand.

So this goes back even further than that. So if you look at your zoning code, one story is defined as up to 15 feet. Well, it's also defined in other ways, but the maximum height of a story is 15 feet. That allows for extra high living rooms, rooms with the clear story windows up above, things like that. The minute you go above the 15 feet, let's say if somebody were to have a two-story living room, like an atrium space, the air, the floor that's up there above the 15 feet counts against you in terms of FAR or lot coverage or anything else. It's part of that calculation.

Which it should. Right.

which it should. And that's common to a lot of zoning codes. But that horizon, that headroom where you can't exceed is at 15 feet. So if you look at the town where most lots are about six feet above sea level, some are at five, a few get close to seven. So if you take the seven and the 15, you get to the 22, which this used to be. And so the code is really kind of in sync on that issue. And once you trim it down to 17, you've knocked off a lot. And I think that when it got down to 17, I think that may have been done without knowing the full extent of how the code works together. So I wanted to mention that.

Okay. So let's set that aside because we're talking about 9164. Maybe that's a critical element.

Well, it is because if it's read as 17 feet from NGVD, there's no way that this can be done. Like this, I won't present it anyways because I put a lot of effort into it.

I don't think we had you state your name and address for the record.

It's Carlos Heading, 9164 Ford Avenue. Okay, so I'm just going to hang on. So as you know, I was here, I was caught in the crossfire of the code change. Carlos was very nice and forward with me, and he told me to, because we tried to like Frankenstein a house that was too big, and then you told me to just go back to square one, go back to the beginning, and I did. We started from scratch. So for this time in particular, we decided to bring into the project an architect that is a friend of the family, to design his done buildings in Miami, in Argentina, in several places. And I kind of wanted to be honest with myself in this process this time around and actually see not only what I wanted, but I want to be respectful of what the town's trying to do in limiting the monster homes and all that. And at the same time, be honest with the functionality and the use of the house and not want something that's bigger than what I really need and what's the dynamic for my family. So going into that, I asked Martin, which is the architect, to kind of give me a blurb after going back and forth with the town members, commission members, that you were very, you know, I'm thankful for that. And because he was better able to express in architectural terms what we try to do with this than I'm going to be able to. So he sent me a couple days ago this text that I'm going to read to you while I show you the house, because I think it serves a better purpose. uh so uh this is from martin bodas he said when we were invited to this project and given the main three main requests by carlos which we used as a framework for a creative process so i told them i wanted longevity in design the house to belong to its surroundings and to be functional in all the interactions that we as a family are going to have with it. So Martin goes on to say, our approach was to try and consider the past, present, and future of Surfside as part of the broader context of Miami. The past anchoring art deco, Miami modern and Mediterranean architecture, which with time has been modified, molded by Latin American influences. The present of Surfside, a calm and unique tropical living area. Looking to the future, it was a priority to make sure that we created a resilient and long-lasting structure, robust enough to withstand the impact of climate change in a coastal town. We wanted to make sure that the same resilience present in the building structure was also referenced in its design. We tried to blend Latin American tropical modernism with Mediterranean modern minimalism. The character and style resemble a minimalist Mediterranean composition while also bringing the context of its tropical surrounding, generating airflow by balancing strong geometric line and material restraint with movement through natural ventilation and, after very valuable input, greenery. The composition of the house is balanced and deliberate. The clear rectilinear volumes supported by angled cylindrical columns create a lighter structure. The front facade has a clear rhythm, proportional window openings, and a controlled geometry that gives it unity and balance without unnecessary ornamentations. The rear facade here, introduces a slanted roof, which softens this rigidity without breaking the logic of the composition, providing a vital functionality to the social area of the home. The roof dynamic slopes contrast the otherwise orthogonal facade, adding visual intention and architectural movement. The skylight is a vital internal feature that creates ventilation and natural light, integrating the social area with the exterior environment. The large inclined cylindrical columns below the structure are not merely support. They attempt to express structural honesty and sculptural intent. The diagonal thrusts create a subtle geometric echo that ties the building's top to the bottom, playing together as if the forces pushing downward and upward are in conversation. The columns' curvatures soften the hard edges and rectangular form in the front, and it creates a complement to the way the slanted roofs soften the box of geometry in the rear. The design is conceptually appropriate by elevating the living spaces, the house create natural light, ventilation, and flood protection, while maximizing water retention within the property. With the materials, we try to use Florida coral stone, off-white frames, and after very valuable input, lush vegetations, which integrates harmoniously with the neighborhood and reflects a refined coastal character. The materials reference Miami's vernacular tropical modernism from the past, providing a timeless regionally rooted texture that ages gracefully in coastal communities. This home, every design element attempts to serve both function and form. The storefront facades, the light that travels through the property, the resilience and the landscapes, it creates an inviting design language. It aims to be an honest contemporary expression of coastal tropical living, respectful of its surroundings. So this house is now 99% up to code. The only part of the house that is not clear if it's up to code is this. projecting, let's say, balcony to call it somehow, which I believe it can only be 12 inches, and this is more than 12 inches in projection. But this is not meant to be used as a balcony. This is just for composition purposes and volume purposes. So I wanted to show you a little bit of the floor plan to show you what we thought of it. On the understory, this is the 10% that is allowed by code. The amount that's enclosed. All the area on the left where you see the big circle at the main entrance, that's the access to the house. That's all glass enclosure. So it's glass on the north side and it's all glass around. The idea for this is to make sure that we allow the maximum amount of light to come in through all sides of the understory. Then we have an AC storage on the back, a little bathroom for the pool. On the right-hand side, there's also storage space, which as our plans is to live here for many years to come. Eventually, when my needs become of mobility, when I'm 80 or 90 years old, install an elevator there so I don't have to, you know, grandchildren will up the stairs and I'll go up the elevator. So that's kind of what we thought here. On the second story, we had the living got the sleeping quarters on one side of the house, which is the front master and two bedrooms and then social area towards the back. The back balcony, we took like we make sure that it was brought into the house. We didn't want it to be projecting to the outside. and the slanted roof is only going to be on the social segment of the house. In order to give it a higher altitude to the ceiling, more light, it felt like having smaller ceilings there was doing us a disfavor. Lastly, the house itself, the living areas, the living quarters, it's 11 and a half foot. So the wall, that wall up there, that's 11 and a half foot. That's the whole height of the wall. So the neighbors.

Which wall are you referring to?

The one on the top. There's no walls at the bottom. So can I?

Yeah.

I don't think I can point through here.

Okay, gotcha.

so uh um i really put a lot of thought into this and we went back and forth and we had a lot of effort and you know intent into doing things right my idea was to bring this up to you i brought to everyone before because it is my current situation that i if i get let's say some sort of you know really significant comments and a thumbs up on the idea and the concept that we're trying to implement, as it is compliant with code, I will go ahead and push forward and spend time, money, and effort in order to bring in the plans. Now if I get a No, go back to a joint board. This is not going to work out. Then I'm going to have to either go back to square one or look for other avenues to make sure that I can develop a house that I'm happy to live with and I think it's going to sustain the test of time and it goes with everything that we're trying to perform. I try to be very honest with it, and I appreciate your time and all your comments. So I would like to, if it's not too much to ask, to kind of get honest feedback and see if it's a thumbs up or forget about it.

Thank you for bringing it as a discussion item. I'd like to ask the board to briefly make your comments. Who would like to start?

I can.

OK. OK. All right, so this is a fully undistorted house. So basically, it's elevated on piloti like Le Corbusier is basically just a house on columns. We talked about a lot of these versions of these houses. This is probably one of the most extreme ones that we've seen that is fully sort of releases the ground and it sits on columns and it elevates the house to a second story. So, I mean, I've seen the house before and I looked at the house before. I think the concept of a house It's your choice, which I think it, obviously you think it works for your family, works for what you wanna do with the house. I think that the problem I have with the house, is more in one of semantics. It's a little bit about what the house looks like, okay? I think that the house has a very sort of commercial feel to it. The front facade of the house looks like I'm gonna go see my dentist, you know? It looks like you're gonna park underneath and you're gonna go up. And the problem is that, Your architect is a capable architect, is a good architect, but I think that we have to think of this house in the context of Surfside. It's not going to sit out in a forest. It's going to sit within our Surfside. So we talked about this in the past before, and now I'm going to be more clear about what I mean by that. I think that, to me, If you want to go with the house or the elevator house, go for it. I think that the whole idea of the house just sits on columns. Underneath it has the problem that it looks like you have parking underneath it. It looks like an apartment building where you're just going to park underneath. I would suggest that on the left-hand side where you have the entrance, somehow there's a bit more domesticity to the way that you enter the house on the left-hand side. He wants to be a purist with the columns, just seeing the four columns in the front. The problem with that, it looks like you're just going into a parking. It looks like any of these buildings in South Beach where you just have, you know what I mean, two stories and parking underneath. It's just better looking than them, but it still looks like that. So I think that one way to avoid that is to develop on the left of the house, which is where you have the front door, more of an enclosure that looks more domestic. So basically you leave the other two bays to the right more for parking so the house starts looking like a home, okay? Because if you just have, open space underneath. It literally just looks like you're going to park, which is pretty much what a lot of these buildings have. They have a cage underneath that you park and then you go into the elevator lobby of the building.

right under where you have that door there. So currently, it's not seen because of the landscape in itself, but on the left-hand side. I know. I know. I know what it is. I looked at the house very closely. So what would you suggest precisely? What would be the precise suggestion on that?

I think that the columns, to me, You need to maybe insert the box in there in between those two columns that is made out of wood or it looks like a beautiful wood cage that it becomes access to front door. So you have both readings. You have the reading of you leaving the columns free, but you also bring a front door into the face of the building. So I'm trying to make the house, I'm trying to make it a little bit more domestic. understand so what it's it will be kind of like because right now it's it's let's say the entrance quote unquote sits on the back so it'll be kind of i think that what he has in the back is the wrong thing i think that you need to that needs to be pulled to the front okay between the two columns so you don't see through the house in that part of the house so becomes maybe a glass box or something that you enter so it looks like you're entering a home because right now you look like you're entering a parking

Yeah, and just, you know, we can't design the house for you.

I'm going to make two comments just to, so they're very clear so he knows how to move forward. That's the number one. The number two is just the second comment. I'm not going to even talk about the back of the house. Can you go to the front of the house? There. I have a problem with the, the commercial feel of the second floor. I mentioned it to you before. I think that that second story, to me, it needs to integrate wood and coral stone and maybe a double layer to the facade so you have a screen and then the windows are below. Because these windows are right on the street. It literally looks like a commercial building. And then that balcony, It doesn't make any sense, because you know what I mean? That balcony with droopy things doesn't make sense. So I think that if you look at maybe having two slabs of coral stone and then play with a layered facade so the house starts becoming lighter in feel and more Maybe you leave a little space and you have a garden in between that facade and the wood screen underneath. So it becomes layered. So the house becomes lighter and becomes, because right now you think it's integrated into the jungle, but it isn't because it's a massive chunk of concrete. It's actually a very heavy-handed house. Can I just?

You're going to need the microphone.

You can speak from there. You see where that lady, she's 5'4". So a current house will start about half a foot or a foot above the lady's house. So it might seem that it's very high up, but that will be all.

So it's not to scale is what you're saying?

It is to scale, but it's very close to scale. And this is at grade.

Well, if she's 5'6", that's like eight or nine feet above. Correct. So that's where it will start?

It will start, yeah. And a new house with the current NGVD will start about half a foot above.

Carlos, I'm going to be very clear because this is very informal. I think that because you have those heavy-handed columns, that I think you could stick to, you should keep. I think the second story of the house has to become a tropical, very light in spirit house that floats amidst trees. It's the opposite of what it looks like.

It reads very boxy and monolithic, like right in your face. So I think what he's trying... I think what we're trying to say is some lightening of that feeling with texture, setting back some of the facade, playing with the facade so it's not just this monolithic facade right in your face.

I think that the key to doing this, I'm going to be very blunt, you need to layer the facade. I think that you need to have two layers. Because also the front of the house. and your bedrooms give to the front of the house. So actually layering with a screen is going to make so much sense because you actually, you sleep on the street, which is something that I don't even want to ever do, but you're going to do it. So I think that you should have maybe leave stone on the top, stone on the bottom and do a layer of fins of wood and then put the glass behind it. So maybe in between the two spaces it could be green okay and it could be so when you're in the bedroom you don't see out on the street that way you see green and then you see wood and then you're ma veiling the the front of the house that's very and the house is going to look much lighter a little bit more brazilian modernist okay that's exactly that's horrible okay that's that's my okay so my last question on this is

With taking that into consideration, is there any objection based on anything that could derail not going back and forth with design aspects and trying to make it fit more and make it lighter and make it better, but with this as a concept? Because my fear is, again, I don't do this for a living, so I don't want to spend $40,000 on all the civil plans.

No, that's fine. I'm accepting, that's what I said very clearly. I'm accepting the concept and when a house looks better, so the next time you design it, we can move forward.

Yeah, an understory house is probably acceptable. Yeah, we love it.

We have, I think we just, you need to move forward and make it better. That's it. Okay, great. But the house, you need to stick to the house. That's my comment.

Andrea, or...

No, I think, Carlos, what you were saying about the left side of the house, the entrance, I was thinking about maybe copying the cube that is over there.

I don't know.

What were you saying?

I think that, first of all, because the house is on the street, and I think that he has concrete... You know, it's like Le Corbusier house. He has these very heavy-handed concrete piers that look like they can hold a 10-story building, okay? So you have those. The house has to feel very light. It has to float. It has to float over those huge... pieces of concrete. So it's exactly, it has to look exactly the opposite of what it looks like. Because right now it's a huge chunk of concrete sitting on other, so it looks like a building. It looks like you can keep on building five more stories on top of it. And that's exactly what you don't want it to look like.

That's perfectly understood.

Plus I think that layering the facade it's gonna make it so much better from inside the house looking out, your house is gonna be so much more beautiful. And then the green on the second store is gonna drip on the downstairs and the house is gonna start becoming lighter and disappearing into your jungle.

Can we see the, I want to understand how the skylight you're proposing works?

So this actually should be, it's going to be smaller, because this is four foot, and it should be three, because that's the maximum allowance. The skylight goes on top of the social area only, so it's not all throughout the house.

It begins at the edge of the bedrooms, it goes all the way to the back.

But it doesn't go quite all the way. It goes all the way to the balcony. It goes...

Okay. I think I get it. And then the curved things at the bottom there go back? The corrugated curving walls?

So this is the bathroom, the pool bathroom on the door right here on the right. I have a mouse. Those are like sliding, corrugated? No, no, no. It's just texture. They gave it texture just... These are initial renderings. So they wanted to make sure if it's...

But they're curved?

Yeah, they're curved. The idea is to make sure that, I mean, we wanted to make it curved, if you see on the left.

He wants the objects underneath the house to be floating pieces of sculpture that float within the grid of the house.

We don't want this to be two rectangles. And that also, it feels that it's much, you know.

And then my other question is on the front facade, it's a stone, like a stone cladding.

This is coral stone, Florida coral stone. This is all coral stone. That was the idea. That was the idea. We're going to try to work with it.

I think you should stick to the coral stone and then add the whole wood element to the, you know, wood, beautiful luscious wood and bronze windows and make the house...

I like white windows.

White windows, whatever you decide. I'm not going to tell you how to design. I mean, I'm telling you exactly what needs to happen in order to give you the right direction so it gets closer.

You can choose the colors. Exactly. They just have to be cohesive.

I understand. But the concept itself, it's something that's not going to get started.

I think with some of the directional recommendations, it's a start. Yep.

Okay. Great.

Okay. Thank you for bringing it.

Thank you very much.

Thank you for your time. I mean, I was just, you know, we talked about this. My biggest problem, and actually Carlos has said basically the same thing, like, I couldn't picture this big floating box. That was my problem with picturing that in Surfside. And then we talked about how to soften that and how to come down a little bit on the left side. So, yeah, I mean, as long as it doesn't... it doesn't look like, it doesn't look that imposing. I mean, to answer your question, like the concept of having like a sort of a house on top of an understory, yeah, I mean, it can work, I think.

Yeah. Perfect. Yeah.

I mean, you can reach out to me again and we can keep on talking.

I will. I will. I will take a lot of your time. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Carlos. Madam Chair, if I may. Yes. I just spoke with the town planner. Regarding the next meeting on December 17th, they might seem to have a conflict, and I wanted to ask the board if they could change the meeting to the next day, December 18th at 6 p.m. I will not be able to do that, but if others can...

We're not going to do it without you.

We normally meet on Thursdays, so that would be a Thursday. The 18th is a Thursday. And we've also published it on our schedule on the website.

Yeah, I can't make it, unfortunately. But I'm happy to have you guys proceed if everyone else can make it.

So instead of November 17?

No, instead of, sorry, did you say December? This is the December meeting, yes. We're not meeting during November. Yeah, it's December 18th.

Is that a regular meeting, December 18th?

Yes, it's a Thursday, our typical Thursday, and that's been published on our website, and we've been telling applicants that that's the date.

Madam Chair, you're not going to be here in December?

I can't make the 18th, unfortunately, no.

I'm not going to do it without her.

Andrea is our vice chair.

He can do it. That week is complicated for me anyway, so... I don't know if I can make the 17th as well.

Okay, I guess we can go ahead and let the applicants know that. It's a day earlier. I mean, it shouldn't.

Yeah, I think we're starting to figure out that. I mean, we need to know who's going to be here or not because it's.

I can be here on the 17th. Yeah.

I can be here on the 17th. Yeah, or earlier. Yeah.

Yeah, I could do the 16th. I mean, if we need. Well, that doesn't help. That's going the wrong direction.

Where are you going?

Okay. Are we keeping it on the 17th?

From what I'm understanding? Yeah. It sounds like this board would prefer to keep it on the 17th.

Sounds good. I say yes to that.

Okay. Moving on to the paint color palette.

Uh-huh.

Scarlett has figured it out for us.

I printed something too.

What we've done today is brought you examples from other cities to see how they are managing and reviewing paint colors. If you look at the middle of the second page, our code says paint colors, structures, and H30A and H30B districts shall be permitted to be painted the four lightest colors of the structure's primary color on the color swatch on file in the building department. All other colors may be accent colors. A paint swatch shall be submitted to the building department for approval. The planning and zoning board shall make a design determination in case of uncertainty. So this is our current...

So any color, as long as it's the four lightest. Correct. I don't think that's the direction that we wanted.

I printed... May I?

Did you?

I hand it to you or hand it to them or?

To them.

No, I mean, I just printed what I, I was, they told me to do this. I did it. It's homework. They told me to do this. No one is impressed that I got it done.

I haven't done homework in 20 years.

Yeah. No, they're all copies for you to keep. So here. So the way I looked at it is I think that the colors need to, I mean, they don't print very well, sadly, and when you, The palette, to me, needs to refer to the fact that we live near the ocean. So I think that the colors of the houses need to be on the light side. I think that we need to keep the houses painted relatively light. And then I made this selection out of Benjamin Moore, because I was just working with one brand. It doesn't mean, just to give an idea what I think it should look like. Because I think that the, what's that? Are you going to pay me back? No, sorry. And so I made this selection that goes from the very white into the gray through the spectrums of the creamy colors. But I think that is very successful. What I did is that it gives a white range, although it might look like it's the same sort of hues of color. Actually, they're very different colors. And I think it... they all sort of within the range, starting with a white and then in a gray, I think it gives options. They all say beachy to me, coastal town to me, which is, I think, the big mistake of the way that the people are painting the houses here, that they avoid the reference, we're in a coastal town, and we have to develop a coastal scheme of colors that reflect that we are by the ocean. That's what code is written. We're not in, you know, we're not somewhere off of 95. We are literally a sea coastal community. So I think that these colors, I really personally like them. I actually put a lot of time into it. It's also try to please people that might perhaps want to go into the more gray, which is a color that I don't particularly care for. But, you know, you also can't say that people can't pay the houses that like gray. So I think that... That goes into the more gray, going through the beige-y grays, goes into, it's actually quite a lot of colors that you can paint. And I will find that anyone who wants to paint, to me, anyone who wants to paint a house too far off this palette is wrong. Because I think they want to go with a salmon, or they want to go with some weird color. Because I think that there is... just about all the options that you should paint a house in this coastal town. So this is my exercise and I hope you like it.

So question for you. First of all, thank you for putting it together. I appreciate the effort and I think it's a great starting One question I have is, you know, our design guidelines currently do allow for multiple types of architectural styles, you know, modern, Mediterranean even. So I just, I want to make sure we're considering, we're beachy, but we have a lot of different kinds of beachy. Do you think that this is sufficiently broad to allow for all of that?

I think that if, because they're sitting side by side and they'll look, they actually encompass, they're so varied, I mean, because you can paint, you know, if you choose the last one, it's actually a gray house. If you pick the first ones, it's a white house. So I think what they have in common, and they have a sea-ness about them. I think they have a sensibility that is compatible with the ocean. And I don't want to mandate someone who likes a gray house not to be able to. They just have to paint it a gray house. You can't paint the house battleship gray. You have to paint it gray. That still refers to the fact that we're a coastal community. And I think that this chart, it's really good in achieving that. Because you can tell, no, you cannot paint gray. You cannot paint brown.

George.

I worked with one company, which is the one that I use, Benjamin Moore.

One to Jerry, too. Hi.

And, you know, I think that.

Okay, so let's, a couple other questions. Sure. Thoughts on the board?

Well, I love this, really. I would love to see all the houses with these colors. But you can imagine their range. Yeah, like any town in Spain, you know, well. I mean, this is a must. Any town has a code that you cannot bury. Cadiz, Greece, whatever. Yeah, I would love to see that.

Andrea? Yeah.

Yeah. I like them too. I was just trying to see, to understand if there could be some other colors that go in between these colors just to give more choices.

Right. Could this be, could there be like ranges in between these?

No. No.

So one question, one, you know.

You know, actually, when I'm saying.

Can I finish? Of course, of course. So one thing that refrains in my head is, Are we overly restricting people? I love this color palette. I think it's beautiful. I'm just wondering, is 12 colors enough for our town? I think it's plenty.

I think that if you look at... I've worked all over the world, and if you go to towns that are on the sea, they actually have one color you can paint the houses, or two colors. So I think that houses are by the ocean are the most restrictive houses because they have... And I think that by allowing people to paint the house salmon and these weird freaky colors that they're painting the houses, it takes away from the feeling of where we are. It takes away the sense of place of this community and erodes the feeling of Surfside as a seaside community. So I think that in doing this palette, I want to cement us bringing back this town into a more coastal feel to it. So even the bigger houses or the modern houses, they have plenty of choices to paint their houses. They're not going to paint it any other color.

What we could do is we could say these are approved out of the gate. No problem. Come get your permit. If you have something else you want, it's got to come to planning and zoning. And that way.

That's absolutely the way to do it.

That's a great suggestion. And then the other thing I was going to ask is the, this is primary colors, right? Like the primary base color of the house. What about accent colors? We don't have any restrictions. I know. So I don't think that's what we want either. So would it just be like these same shades in a slightly darker, or do you want to come up with a second thing that has accents?

My goal is for it to fit. I want it to be this set number of colors, because I think actually this is quite generous amount of colors. I think it might look like we're restricting it, but actually What is nice about this selection is it goes from all the whites that people like to people, some people don't like white, they like gray. So this allows for them to pay their house a gray, but a gray that fits into a coastal community, which is, you know, someone say, I can't pay my house gray. No, you can. It just has to fit within the rhetoric of what we're trying to bring this town into, which is that the fact that we're a coastal town and we have to bring people's homes into the feel. So I think this is just perfect. I think that we can ask, you can, you know, the trim thing, we can say, you know, you can trim it with the same color, a little bit darker, or, you know, we can write something very simple into

I mean, this, I think, will simplify things for people because a lot of people don't really know. They just want to be able to see.

It's also we're doing the service to people because people don't even know how to paint their houses. And you know what? This is really nice that you hand this to me. Like, pick one because actually they're very pretty colors. So anyone.

I would love it if you'd come up with the same thing for some trims that we would just people don't have to come here. Like, if you use these trims, you're fine. Go forward. Anything else that's not on these pages, you know, would need to come. Something like that.

See, I don't like two-tone anything, so I like everything the same color. But I think we need to write into code how to handle the trims. I'm not sure that we need to add a color.

It's just trims could be done at- It has to be on the same paint strip as one of these, basically.

We have to come up with something like that. It has to be on the same- I think this is the key to a success in painting this town the right colors. Because- People can't complain there's no options because I think they have all the options that they have. And why would you want to paint a house in any color? And if you want, come in front of us and we'll look at it.

Just a question because you put here a bunch of codes from different towns. And they refer to some of them, like I think it's Hollywood, they refer to color charts. They're not included in the... So do these towns in general have... like a simplified version like this of the color charts, or do they have a different approach? I'm just curious, just because I'm ignorant.

Scarlett, that question's, someone's gonna field that question.

So in my research, when I was looking up other municipality, how they approach color palettes, take the example of Coral Gables. They have an architectural design board. So they look at everything, residential and commercial, and when I look at their, under their permit department, how one approaches a paint permit, they have to be reviewed by the architectural board. However, when you go in the actual permit, they have the specific, they have more of a selection and more darker hues. However, they're very specific about these are the colors we want from this specific company, Sherwin-Williams or Benjamin Moore. They have their color palette selected. Yeah, so that's what we had to do.

The problem we have with, the thing about, I mean, Coral Gate was very different for us because they're a different sensibility and they're not on the ocean and they have a very heavy-handed Meissner and 1920 sort of Spanish revival. So they have a lot of terracottas, a lot of reds and other things that we don't have. And that's the kind of thing that, you know, they do their things and we need to do our things. So I think that I think at some point in Surfside, when Surfside was built and people were building, no one ever painted a house anything different from this. I think they actually painted the houses very much in this. So in my thinking was what would the people paint in their houses back in the day, you know, my house, which is 1939, you know, these things. And I said the colors, regardless of what color, is it gray or it has to be, it has to feel the ocean. We have to bring the ocean back to this town and I think that, I think that this, I don't know, I think it's really successful. It's a good start.

One clarification I would say is we're not requiring people to use Benjamin Moore. You can translate these color codes into any paint manufacturer. Yes, just so people clarify that.

I mean, Benjamin Moore is sort of the premier, but... Well, I mean, I use Benjamin Moore because it's what I use, and at some point I had to use a company because these colors are not panatones, they're a company.

Exactly, yeah, it's fine.

So, caution. Because if people are going to take one of those color translators into Sherwin-Williams or another company, they might just do whatever. Do you know what I mean? They might just say, oh, it matched.

Well, we probably need to come up with it in the three major states.

So I think that... I mean, I think that this is the, what I wanted to do is to get us all to think the same way so we can make this even better. And I think that we need to probably come up with a chart similar for different brands. So we, you know, this is for, if you want to use Benjamin Moore, this is Benjamin Moore. And at some point we have to tell you, you have to either use Shervin Williams or Benjamin Moore, one of the two. And that's it. That's all there is. Because it's like, if they want to use some freaky company, then they have to come in front of us to make sure that it matches.

So these colors have Pantone, like a code? No. No, no. It's unique to the brand?

All paints have a Pantone.

They should, right?

Or a hex color.

So we can just give that code?

Yeah, there's a generic code.

Yeah, I mean, this has to be refined. I'm just saying, the zeitgeist of what I wanted to do is this chart, and then we have to make it better.

We have to work. George, did you want to speak on this? Sure.

Yeah, George Kouselis, 9225 Collins Avenue. I think this is very good. And when you add in the, if you want to do something else, you got to come and sell it. Provision is good. But a few comments on this. So anytime you look at a paint, you can go to their thing and you'll click on the number And it'll show you the spectral qualities of it. And any one of these, what's interesting here, this palette is far richer than you may think. So what you'll see, just like on Photoshop, you'll see a whole range of colors. And that particular paint will be so many degrees over into yellow or over into cyan or whatever. And so muslin, you'll find out that that dot is about, if it's directly in the center, it's pure white. And if it's further out, it's more saturated. And then how yellow or blue or red it is depends how it goes around the circle. You can find the equivalent of that in any other, Pratt and Lambert, Sherwin-Williams, all of them. And when you look at this chart, you'll see that muslin is probably kind of in the yellowy-orange range. You know, Balboa mist is a little bit on the purplish side. And by looking at those spectrums, you know, just do it at home, you will quickly see the richness in this palette, even though it seems fairly constrained.

That's what I said in the beginning, that it's actually a lot richer than you think it is.

And then it's very easy also to say, well, the equivalent of in Sherwin-Williams to Muslin is, or sorry, to Benjamin Moore in Sherwin-Williams will be Sherwin-Williams whatever. One other thing I would caution, so you heard about the paint Snowbound earlier, which is a fantastic color of white for Miami. Sometimes people pick pure white or as white as you can get, paper white, and Chantilly Lace is very close to that, and it's blinding in Miami. Snowbound, when you look at it indoors... looks buff. People look at it and go, this isn't white paint. In fact, when you put it on a building in Miami, it looks like the perfect color of white. There's something in it. It's not just like a washing machine. So it may just be how this is printing, but Chantilly Lace is almost pure white. It's the color of the paper. And that's probably too white for Miami, unless it's not printing right, unless there's a little bit there that the copier can't pick up. But so I'd caution you, white is not an easy color. Carlos's house is a great color of white, but there's something in there, right? It's pretty white. It's white.

Mine is white dove.

Mine is snow white. Benjamin Moore's snow white. It's pretty white.

But it's not speed queen white. It's not washing machine white.

So are you suggesting that perhaps we just take another look at Chantilly Lace?

Well, just to make sure. I've used Chandelier Lace. It's actually less white than my Snow White. That's why I actually left my color out because you have to know to use that color. My house is not an easy color. It's very white.

Yeah, I've had people, they pick very light whites. And I say, let's get a sheet of paper.

If you paint a very, very white, we call it in Spanish hospital white, it looks really bad because it becomes really cheap looking and the imperfections show. And it's also too bluish. Institutional.

Yeah, institutional. I would just caution if it's printing, it may just be an artifact of the printer here, but it's almost paper white.

Yeah, what I'd like to recommend maybe is that if the planning team could take this and sort of come up with a proposed change to the code that would, is it the code or the design guidelines that you pulled? Yeah, a proposed change that would basically say this is okay. In whatever manufacturer, here's Benjamin Moore, here's Sherman Williams, Sherwin Williams. Anything else comes to the planning side.

And remember that we also approved about painting roofs, which people are doing left and right. So that needs to go.

Didn't we already talk about that or no?

We did. We did talk about the roofs.

Yeah, did we put it in code? We don't have it in code. Okay, so let's do both. Yeah, so okay, you've been enforcing it. Do you think we need to, I mean, as long as we're talking about paint and changing code, might as well.

Yeah, well, we can modify this section of the code for those two things.

So do we need a paint palette, a color palette for roof colors? Because we talked about roof colors. They were basically white to light gray. Yeah, white and gray.

The people's idea of light gray. I mean, God knows people's idea. I think that the more samples we have for them, I mean, we want to educate the people. We don't want to piss them off. We want to actually give them options and say, listen, I think you're painting my house. Come and look at the options and pick one. It's actually been helpful. And if you want to paint a salmon, then good luck. But you have to show up here. And then you have to present it to us. And then we have to look at it.

Well, that's easier when it comes to painted roofs. But a lot of roofs will be a material. And the range of grays or light grays or beiges, once you're going to a room. Or terracottas, because that's what they paint them orange. There are fewer choices. There are. a thousand paint colors.

I think that we need to do a chart for painting roofs. It's even more important than houses to me. Well, painting roofs, but you probably... A lot of houses you see more roof than you see house.

But you also probably want to have a darkness, some way to quantify darkness for actual materials.

No, no, I think we talked about it.

I just don't know where it went. So I think it went into sort of a procedural policy that Scarlett's enforcing, but I would love to have it written down somewhere, either in the guidelines or in the code. So can we combine those two things for a proposal for next time? Like, here's how I'm Here's how the code should look. Here's the pallet Okay, does that make sense to the group? Okay, great. Thank you Thanks Carlos for doing that work and thanks to the planning team for pulling that stuff out as well Okay, I see our town liaison is here. So I'd like to come back and have him Make his report and then also participate in the ordinance conversation that we paused We couldn't really remember We need your help framing why this ordinance is back before us.

OK, yeah. And I may need your help as well. This could be a collaborative exercise. Because I realized at, it was Monday's special commission meeting when we looked at the ordinance again. I myself may have misunderstood the concerns that led to the planning and zoning boards amendments to the ordinance that came before you so let me let me try restating those and you can correct me I remember a conversation I think it was Mr. Eskenazi who was in the audience and I think you had all settled on the problem of what the height limit would be for a one-story home with a understory and somehow that conversation got to the 17-foot number that came back to us. Subsequent to the Planning and Zoning Board meeting, I learned perhaps that there was a 22-foot limit on a one-story home, I believe, and I'm so glad that the planner is here to back me up on this. And I just couldn't remember whether the Planning and Zoning Board considered that number or if 17 was something that you came to independently. That raised a concern from Mr. Ede, whose presentation I had been absent for, so I have not had a chance to watch that. exchange that you had with him just an hour ago. Um, and he was wondering why we were lowering the limit. And so I think there may have been, um, yeah, just a question about that 20 existing 22 foot limit and, uh, whether there was a specific intention on the part of this board to lower it. And I'm, I'm sensing that there was not, that was one question. Um, uh, Well, I think that that might be enough just to get the conversation started. So we had some confusion about that. I'll admit, during that conversation, I became curious about a separate problem that touches on the same ordinance. Another resident who has a two-story legacy home with five-foot setbacks that is well under – 0.54 was asking about whether two-story legacy houses were now non-conforming in virtue of being two-story. And that had not been my understanding of the code, but now I want to get clear about that. And I don't have the draft right in front of me. I just came in. So there's that issue, too. And I want to make sure, you know, in our conversations with you that we are giving adequate consideration to both the needs of one story understory houses and two story legacy houses with. five foot setbacks so i'm trying to think about how the ordinance either as written or as proposed affects those two different subgroups specifically um other questions i'm happy to try to work through with you i'm i'm as i said kind of to be honest i am now losing the forest for the trees on this ordinance what were we trying to accomplish here

The code was not clear on a one story home with the setback. I interpreted it that the one story home would have to comply with the seven and a half feet or nine feet setback. But there was other interpretations and they wanted it to be clear. If it would be helpful, I would suggest that I could spend time and put a report together and give you guys more background of what the conversation was with the town commission. They didn't expect you to see this today anyway. They were anticipating it was gonna go in December. That's why I apologize. I didn't know that it was gonna be this late.

Yeah, so we're not quite ready to talk about this today.

Yeah, if you would like, I'll go ahead and put together a good memo for you so we can understand.

what they said what their questions were what the original intent was that would be great and i think carlos's question earlier was you know is it from navd versus crown of road correct you know i think this is new information to us too the 22 feet versus 17. um i you know it'd be helpful if you could review our conversation about how we got to that 17 because i recall it was You know, there were some good points there about it. You know, I think we were concerned about a 22-foot single story on top of a, you know, an understory.

We're talking about that one story, you know, with a five-foot setback, a one-story house was ending up being actually like a two-story house. Yeah. Because the height of the wall was two stories.

Exactly.

So the legacy homes are actually lower, two-story legacy homes are actually lower than that wall. And I remember we gave the example of the house on Abbott. Precisely. Precisely. So we were saying, you know, these one-story houses end up being two-story houses. So you're still going to end up with a 20-foot wall, five foot from your house.

You basically have a... you know, on columns, a 22-foot single story. Correct. So you're at 30 feet. Correct. Yeah.

Correct.

Exactly. Okay. I think it'd be helpful for a little more framing and context. I've lost my mind.

I would say I have a little bit too from the commission's point of view, it would be helpful if the memo just included maybe just some sample cases, like the two-story legacy home with the five-foot setbacks.

And I think- So, I mean, on that question, I think it's really a legal question. I think any code change we make that an existing house does not conform to is a non-conforming code is a nonconforming house. So any house in Surfside that's above a 0.5 or 0.6 FAR is nonconforming right now. Anything that doesn't conform to our second story setbacks is nonconforming. That's the nature of an evolving zoning code. Right.

Understood. And actually, that touches on another item that I think, did the ordinance about the docks come to them tonight? No. Right. There is an ordinance that passed first reading Monday night. I should let you know that it's coming. Again, this is one of those situations where I voted against it, but my colleagues passed it for your consideration to allow marine structures that are of a certain vintage that are possibly destroyed by natural disasters to be rebuilt as they were. So kind of grandfathering in marine structures. I had a concern about what that general principle... What do you call marine structures?

Docks?

Yeah.

And my concern... Docks that were not conforming now that they...

See, again, this is where I was a little bit unclear. I don't understand what it means. Yeah, but presumably somebody would have a dock that is not buildable under the current code, but they have it from before. And would they be able to rebuild it in the case of...

But they usually have smaller... docks that they would have to allow i mean usually people that have older dogs they have mingy little no there are docs out there that would not be allowed by that would not be allowed now so yeah you're saying if they're destroyed by storm they could build them back this is yeah this is an event of casualty only what the commission passed right and uh you know i i had a concern that is very odd i had a concern about the principal um and so that issue will be coming before you perhaps at your next meeting

That has a lot of legal precedent and interpretation, so really going to need your help on understanding that.

Yeah.

I mean, casualty and rebuilding in the event of casualty.

I mean, that's like a whole different role. Just for the doc. If it doesn't meet code, you can't force people to make it up to code. But if it gets destroyed, if you have to rebuild it, then you have to rebuild it. It's like a new structure. You have to rebuild it in meeting code.

I only mention that because it gets at this issue exactly. It's like the painting.

I want to repaint my house with a different color right now.

This issue is really...

It's a natural disaster. It could be fire, it could be...

But perhaps what I would ask, and I'd love to see reflected in the memo, is just... I think many of the legacy two-story homes, especially the ones with... I think there are many with FARs, either under 0.5 or just about 0.5. I mean, that's a building type that looks very good in the town. So I don't know that the intention ever was to make that an illegal form.

So do we have the address of the dog that we're talking about or like just in general?

I don't have it handy, but if you talk to the mayor or others, they might let you know which ones they're thinking of specifically.

Okay. Because it's like an odd request.

I mean, that's like building a variance. That's like coming in front of this and building a variance. So I don't know what law would make a mayor just bypass what code is, you know. I think it's a straight needs to be built up to code.

What I would recommend is we hold on this conversation until we have it.

Sure. Yeah, you'll have that next time.

Yeah, we need to have it in front of us.

But this issue will, you know.

Thank you for the heads up. Yeah, yeah.

yeah thanks thank you i'll be here you had a comment well yeah question actually because uh so do so for two stories new construction i did i miss anything or still at 30 feet um still at 30 feet 30 feet so and i kept thinking about this so if i want to

propose something different would that be like new business just for the consideration of the board and yeah we'll we'll get to um future discussion items okay um so maybe to close out this ordinance since we're going to bring it back did you have another comment on the ordinance yeah because uh george crystal's 92 25 collins avenue i won't be here for your next meeting so i just wanted to get these things in now

Two things, one what triggers it and also how the 30 foot and other things work. And so the whole thing that triggered this discussion is there's a 40% lot coverage limit to houses. So how do you build .5 FAR in a one story house? You can't. So there's a relaxation of that. If it's a one story house, it'll, they'll allow you to go as long as you give up ever doing a second story and that gets recorded. So then you can go out to 50% lock coverage and your one story. So now the question becomes how tall can one story be? So that's the trigger for this whole conversation.

Thank you. That's helpful.

Now, 30 feet, everybody is allowed to build a 30 foot tall house. Why can't you build a 30 foot tall one story house? Isn't it your business? Well, it's that other thing I mentioned before, which is a floor is one story is limited to 15 feet. The minute you go above 15 feet, it counts against you twice.

What's the 22 feet? I thought it was.

Well, well, okay. That comes later. Okay. So 15 feet has been in the code for a long time. So you cannot never build a, um, 30 foot tall one story house unless you get the, um, um, floor area counted against you. Now, if when it, when the FAR was 0.72, if you kind of raised 32% of the lot up to 30 feet and just had a giant volume, you could do that and stay within the code. But that extra 32% counted against you and got you to that 0.72 for a few years ago, if you're following all this. So where this becomes important for a one story house, everybody has been entitled to build a, roughly a 22 foot tall house for a long time, one story house. It all depends where your street is. But if you're starting at plus seven above street grade to get to that plus 10, then you get to 22 feet. If you're six feet, you get to 21 and so forth. So that's always been in there. Now, I think at some point the 22 feet came in because they said, okay, you got the 15 feet and roughly that's six to seven feet, rarely seven feet, but let's capture everybody in town. And that gets you to 22. So the real question is, I think if you just want to look at the houses that get fatter than they were allowed to be, the 50% lock coverage one-story house as opposed to the 40, you could say, well, the 50% is a new animal. And for going to 50%, we're also going to squeeze you further from up above. That's one option. But if you squeeze the 40% down to the seven feet, you're doing something new to them. You're squeezing them more than they've ever been squeezed in the past. Does this all make sense?

Yeah, because I think this is all about interior side setbacks. That's how it came. And you only have so many. We already have the front and the back. We're already talking about interior side, so that just leaves the height as the lowest.

Right. And so the 50% lot coverage, this goes always all the way back to the Deitch era when this was first proposed. The idea was you have some legacy homes that are, let's say, at 37% lot coverage. And these people just want to add on a bedroom and a bathroom. And that immediately trips them to 44% lot coverage, which they can't do. Or they have to go up, which triggers the FEMA problem and is much more expensive construction. So the idea was, how do we get these people? How do we conserve these houses for another generation or 10 years by allowing this... family that'll either move out or expand horizontally. And so this was an attempt to 50% that, and it had different numbers at times, but it was always greater than 40, how to get them a little bit more elbow room. As long as they gave up a second story, they could go out. And that's where this came from. And this has now triggered the, um, How tall, how tall can it get?

Yeah. Okay, that's really helpful context, thank you. And maybe we can codify that in the memo for next time too. Thank you. So I think we do need a motion to defer this item to next meeting. Would someone say so moved?

So moved.

Can I have a second? Second. Do you need to call the roll? Yes, Chair.

Board Member Aparicio? Yes. Board Member Chavez?

Yes.

Vice Chair Trevani? Yeah.

Chair LaCour? Yes. Motion carries. Thank you. Okay. I think that brings us to 8D, powers and duties of the Planning and Zoning Board.

Yes. This was asked, it was asked that this be brought before you to just basically show you what the code currently says are the powers and duties of the Planning and Zoning Board. This came from the discussion of, I think it had to do with the speed temps that were not being reviewed by the board and there was a request that you have more a little bit more added to what your purview is as board and this is what we currently have right now. So we presented this to you to show you where in the code it is and what is coming before you and why.

Okay. So this may take people's time to review unless you've already reviewed it and have questions. My recommendation would be read it. If you feel like there needs to be something added or deleted, bring it back for specific discussion.

This has to do with the connection between the town commission and our board?

No, not necessarily. It has to do with what can go administrative. Just as planners, we can look at things and what applications come before you.

This was in response to speed bumps. Is that under our purview or not? This language says all structures. basically need to come before us?

This is very important to me because I was kicked out of the last meeting and I've lost a lot of sleep and it's been really bad blood with this town which I couldn't tell you how much I disagree with what they're doing. I think that it's very simple and I'm so glad that the new interim town manager is here. I think that anything that gets built in this town, anything that is built, meaning that it's bricks and mortar, anything that is built, anything that is aesthetic of this town needs to come in front of this board. OK, it's the way that the town feels and the way that the town connects to his homes, his streets, his residents is through all kinds of landscaping, hard landscaping, soft landscaping, all kinds. We're here. We're an insanely talented group of people. And I'm donating hundreds of hours to this town, to all of us, to make this town better. So there is no reason why anything that is going to be built in this town should not come in front of us. That doesn't mean that we're here, we don't have the power to say we're against speed bumps. We're not judging the speed bumps. We're just saying we're going to build speed bumps. We have to build the best speed bumps, the ones that fit this town, statically, functionally, because we are engineers, we're architects, we're developers. We're an incredibly sophisticated group of people. Probably this town has never seen this level of sophistication. And these things, how they sprung on us without any review of what these things is going to look like, I think it was a travesty of what our relations should look like. And I think that I tried in every way possible to try to be liaison, to make common sense, and I was completely disrespected of our authority. And I think that I want you to reach out and I want to hear and I want to go on the record that We're here to help, but I think our mandate is that anything that gets built in this town, we understand the memorial, and we understand how that came about, and we understand that perhaps that precedes it, and there's nothing we can do about it. But there are things presently being built in this town that we never saw, we never looked at, we never had anything to say about them, and you know, People have brought them just to show them to us, but we don't have any power over them. And things have been built by people that are completely incapable of building them, and they have no idea what they're doing. So I'm on record saying that the key is that anything that gets built in this town, because if a sign gets put up on Harding Avenue, it comes in front of us. a sign, a stupid sign, and you tell me that they're gonna destroy this town with ill-conceived speed bumps made out of bricks that are gonna fall apart, they're too high, and they're a mess, and they're hideous, and we don't have anything to say about that, but we sit here and discuss a sign on Harding Avenue, I think it's patronizing and disrespectful to us as a board.

And I would just add that I think it's pretty clear in the code. that you shared on 90-17, number two, it says, so the board typically serves in two functions, as the local planning agency opining on zoning functions and as the design review board. In fact, we used to be called the design review board when I started this. We had two meetings. We would do the planning and zoning meeting, and then we'd do the design review board meeting. And we ended up combining those into a single function. But the design review is critical, and it's codified right here. It says the Planning and Zoning Board shall conduct a design review for all structures to be constructed and renovated within town limits on the terms outlined below. So right there, I think we've been left out of a couple structures, i.e. the memorial and the, I think you could say the speed bumps are structures. It's not a capitalized or defined term, so maybe we need to

WELL, THERE'S ALSO THE ROUNDABOUTS, BECAUSE THEY'RE BUILDING ROUNDABOUTS.

ROUNDABOUTS, BUT I THINK WE WOULD LIKE TO BE, LET'S MAKE SURE WE'RE FOLLOWING THAT. I THINK THE PRIOR REGIME MAYBE WASN'T FOLLOWING THAT TO THE LETTER OF THE LAW, SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE SENTIMENT OF THIS BOARD IS.

I MEAN, SHE'S TRYING TO BE VERY DIPLOMATIC, BUT ACTUALLY, I, THIS IS A BIG, BIG DEAL, BECAUSE I THINK THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO BUILD LITERALLY THE BUILD a speed bump, they pay $20,000 for each one of those speed bumps. Those speed bumps, I told the mayor and I told the town manager, the speed bumps here need to be built just like they are in Pine Tree Drive, just like they are in North Bay Road. They have to be pillows, they have to be asphalt, they have to blend into the road, because that's the way they work. And you cannot build a speed bump that goes to a point and is a table because they don't fit in our town. We have towns where we have driveways coming out to the streets every 10 feet. So you cannot build speed bumps. They're 26 feet long. Because as I took pictures, people were parking their cars like this on the speed bumps. So obviously, this is an abomination. And I try to stop it in the best, most... loving, caring way to stop it. And I realized this was bigger than me. And when I realized that they were spending $250 million making two roundabouts and six speed bumps, I realized it was something bigger than me. But I'm saying, we're here. We know which are the best speed bumps. And then in the commission, I heard how they're going to hire an expert. And I said, hire an expert? You hire an expert to build a speed bump? I mean, this town spent $1.5 million buying a house and a quarter of a million dollars building six speed bumps and two roundabouts. It's $2 million. You know, the park in front of my house, you can't even walk on it. It's all bumpy and full of holes. We have to, and I'm talking to everyone here, the connection between the commission, and us is key. We're in this together. We're here to help, we're not here to antagonize anywhere, we're not here to tell the commission they cannot build speed pumps, but a speed pump is a built object that will change the way this town feels. because those things that they built are an abomination that don't belong in this town. So we need to build a speed pump that works in this town, that is correctly built, but is also aesthetically correct for this town. And that's our job.

And I think the design review process is pretty well laid out here. And I think we agree with the purpose of promoting excellence in architectural and urban design. That's why we're here. I think it's because we care about the town as passionately as Carlos is expressing that we want to make sure we're involved. I think one procedural question, I do note in the design review procedure, it says all applications for new developments or improvements that are subject to the town's adopted design guidelines shall be referred to the planning and zoning board for review and consideration. So I would just want to make sure that the design guidelines indicate that, you know, all structures and improvements are subject to these design guidelines. So, Scarlett, I don't know if you can make a note of that for our next meeting next week, because I think the way we've rephrased that, and I've printed it out, and I hope you guys are going to read that before Thursday to make sure that this is covered. I think we've really narrowed it to single family homes in the design guidelines. So I just wanna make sure that we zoom back out again using this lens to make sure that we're gonna get the design review on everything that's critical to the town.

So does that mean like we should save from the beach path? Is that also included? That's what we need to decide. If the commission wants to change or the town manager wants to change something on the beach path,

the railing or the lights or anything should that also go improvements structures new developments those are the words you know when you go to europe and you go to rome the benches the light posts those are the ones that make the memories those are the ones the town feel like a town so then we have to absolutely absolutely that's part of part of the built environment the guidelines with that in mind and let's come next week prepared to

make specific suggestions if needed about how, if there are changes needed. There may need to be sort of a public space section of the design guidelines. Okay, and so I think based on that we may need to do we may also need to make some suggestions for changes to the code here that she's suggested. So let's have the conversation. But I think the code is pretty clear. We are the design review body. We're here to help promote excellence in architecture and design, and we should be reviewing all buildings and structures.

I think if the commission is up to building things in this town without presenting to this board is up to no good. I think ultimately they're doing it on purpose. They're very qualified people. And if they're doing it and not including us, it's because they on purpose don't want to include us. So that's why you get a speed pump they pay $20,000 for. So I think that's old. That's thankfully past. I think we're on, and we want to start on a good note about how to move forward. And I think that it's very important that anything that gets built in this town has to come in front of us. that's imperative that that's how the from from now on the way that this town needs to work And again, it's not about us commenting on the fact that we don't want speed bumps, that's outside of what we do. What we do is design and review board. We are the beauty of this town, the way the town feels, every detail, from the benches, to the beach paths, to the light posts, to the benches, to everything that it's built and added to this town. Because if you are adding 500 benches to this town and you pick the wrong benches, you're going to change the way the town feels. You're going to destroy this town. So although it might be a minutia, it might be very small, choosing the wrong speed bumps will destroy this town. And that's where we're heading. I'm done.

Okay, so I think it's to be continued. But I do feel like we've got a strong foundation existing in the code. It may need some tweaks, and the design guidelines next week may need some tweaks to accommodate some of these additional municipal structures. Future discussion item, you had an item?

Yeah, so this is something that I mentioned when we did that, I think it was like an open discussion with the commission, like maybe a year ago. Is there any appetite for conversation about lowering the 30-foot limit for the two-story houses? Personally, I think that there could be room for coming down. It depends. Obviously, I don't know what's the crown of road and what's the range of the crown of road, like how high and how low it is in the town. But I've always felt that 30 feet is too much. I understand that people want to have high ceilings inside the houses, but we live where we live. The lots are what they are. And if you want to have high ceilings, maybe you can look at some other places. That's how I feel. I still don't know what the number could be. That's why I wanted to have also your opinion on that. I was thinking that maybe it could be somewhere between 26 and 27, somewhere around there. And like I said, we got to see what that does to the ceiling heights, considering even the worst case scenarios. But I, you know, I feel quite strongly about this. I just wanted to bring it up.

That's I think we talked about this and we were asking the architects, like, what's the average height for a room? Right. And but I don't think there's any rule. But in this case, well, in the case of Surfside, the the the houses are not that big, right? So the rooms, even in the two-floor houses, they're quite small. I don't think they need a ceiling of 12 feet, right? It looks weird, right?

So it sounds like there's some support for considering the question. I think Scarlett, and for the board's benefit as well, going forward, I think what I'd like to do with these future items is frame the problem statement or question. Because I think we're coming back to them and then saying, what are we trying to do? So I think the question is, is 30 feet too high? Should we bring it down? And I think understanding with some visuals the relationship to the crown of road and what that does to a single story understory house or a two story house, looking at that.

I mean, I think that the, I can wrap it up with this, but I think that our conundrum that we have in this town is that we're not Miami Beach, we're not Coral Gables. We have, it's so complicated to work in this town because the lots are so small and the houses are so close. At some point, I think the code was being changed to the pressure, so the people that are coming from the outside and the developers and these people who wanted these 11-foot ceilings and these monster houses. And I think there was a breaking point. I think that they pushed this town to a point where these houses just don't fit. And, you know, I think when you ride around this town, you realize that these houses are really not fitting. We know they don't fit. NEXT TO A LEGACY HOME, BUT THEY'RE NEVER GOING TO FIT. I MEAN, THE REALITY IS THEY'RE NEVER GOING TO FIT. I MEAN, I THINK OUR GAME, WHAT WE HAVE TO WRITE A CODE THAT MAKES THEM FIT BETTER. AND I THINK THAT ONE BY ONE, WE'RE HELPING PEOPLE DESIGN HOUSES TO ME THAT THEY FIT BETTER BECAUSE THE CODE CAN DO UP TO SO MUCH. you know, God is in the details. It's about the details and how these houses fit into, I think we're doing an insanely precise, I've never seen a board do a precise amount of work into trying to make this up, because our job is so difficult. Because if we allowed the code to go wild, this town would be gone forever. I mean, it would just be destroyed. Might as well raze the whole town and build these, you know, these big houses. So, I think that At some point, we gave in to the pressure of people wanting high ceilings and stuff, and I think that we're letting a lot of the zeitgeist and the spirit of this town go by the wayside because we're allowing people to have, we go up to FEMA, we're six feet up in the air, 10 feet, eight feet up in the air, and then they want 12-foot ceilings. So they're like, you know, you look into this room, the rooms are 10 by 10, and they're really, all of them, they're ridiculous.

Sounds like you'd be in favor of revisiting this as well.

A hundred percent. I don't think that we're going to go to like ridiculously low, but I think that it might be that sweet spot that we can work it. So it's a little bit better.

So let's add that. And, you know, just to give a little bit of context for the evolution of these homes over time, what I've observed in my research, Gosh, I forget how many years I've been doing this. But it's not necessarily that the code has changed. I mean, we have changed the code over the years. But people have started building out to the full extent of the code in the last 10 years. And that's when everyone was like, whoa, we can do that? And we were like, whoa, now we better really change the code, because people are taking the full volume to the absolute envelope they can, and we realized we don't like our code. We don't like that. So it's definitely been an evolution.

Well, when I came to this town and I bought my house, I bought it on a whim. It was a beautiful old house. It didn't occur to me that I could tear it down because I come from the north where you cannot tear down these old houses. And then I learned over the course of the years, it's like, oh, you could tear it down. And I go, I could tear this house down? Are you crazy? Why would I tear this house down? It's beautiful. It's part of Miami history. A nanosecond, it's not even 100 years. So it's like, that's the problem, is that I think that it's off kilter. I think that nothing has happened in between. We went from people adding up fence and painting to these houses that grew up out of nowhere, and we don't know... i think that we haven't found that sweet spot that that allows these big houses to fit better and i think we are doing a good job but i think that we're still missing a few key heights and setbacks and and we need to i think i i'm all for revisiting it uh great revisiting it let's do it george did you have a comment

And then we'll adjourn.

Briefly, George, you're absolutely right, Madam Chair. It's that people's expectations have grown to the point where they can exploit our code. The code, well, it changed under this commission. It downsized a bit, as we all know. But otherwise, it's been in effect for quite some time. And to give you some background, the current mayor is adamant that his code of 2006 was perfectly good and that it was the code under the Deitch Commission that replaced it in 2010 that basically opened the floodgates. When in fact the 2006 code was more lenient. The 2006 code allowed an FAR of 0.8 code we've had for quite some time is allowed 0.72 and now it's down to the 0.5, 0.5, 0.4, 0.6. So it's the expectations that have caught up and are, you know, so doing what you may want to do to whatever degree makes sense because there's no reason why we have to let the expectations just run amok.

Mm-hmm.

Well, it's also, I'll wrap it up with this, it's also, again, which is one of my pet peeves when it comes to this, it's also the change in the quality of life that these houses has to the neighbors around them. I mean, I think that we have to be very mindful of how, A lot of people don't have a voice or they literally just feel powerless to the fact that these things are going to encroach upon their lives and the quality of light and air is going to be lost forever. I think there's a sense of doomness about what's happening here that is very tragic, because there's people been living here for 30, 40, 50, 60 years in this town, and they walk around with the little dogs, and I just, they're in awe, because did you feel that something, you know, when I looked at the speed bump, and the woman that came up, my car scratched the bottom of it, and I came out, and then the woman came out of it, and she was an old Cuban lady, she was grabbing my arm and crying, and said, what are they doing to us, my nurse needs to park here, and she was a little shaking, and I feel like, There's just, we're not taking into account, I know it's hard, but it's part of what we need to do. It's part of what we need to think of when we are accepting these things. And these are human's lives that we are affecting by these houses. And again, the proximity of these houses to these neighbors is our biggest problem in this town.

Well, and I think the pendulum has already started swinging back the other way. It's just that we still have these huge things existing that people are seeing, and they're not seeing the new code yet being built. It's too soon. It's going to take another year.

No, I'm very proud of what we're doing, but I think if we can do even a little tiny bit better, we should.

Yeah, we should.

We're here for the long haul. Okay.

I don't know if it'll be in the next month. Scarlett monitors the items and kind of adds them when we have enough time to discuss. And I would recommend that she reach out either to me, to Andrea, you know, so that we can frame the discussion appropriately with the visuals that will ensure a fruitful discussion. Thank you. Okay, I am ready for a motion to adjourn.

Motion to adjourn. Second.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

All right. Have a good evening, everybody. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.