Planning and Zoning Board - Regular Meeting

Okay. Are we on air? Can we get on air? We are. All right, we're on air. Let me grab that. Okay, good evening. We're going to get started. Welcome to Planning and Zoning. Madam Clerk, would you please call the roll? Yes, Chair. Chair LaCour, here.

Board Member Aparicio?

Here.

Board Member Chavez? Here. Chair, you have a quorum.

Great. Thank you. Let's start off with our commission liaison, Commissioner Vildestegui.

Thank you, Madam Chair. 9148 Froward Avenue and member of the Commission. So a few items of interest actually this month. We've met twice recently. We had our regular meeting in September, followed by a special meeting on September 15th. At the regular meeting, we approve the ordinance that's before you tonight under item 6A, which I understand to be just a fix to allow one particular project, a one-story house with an understory to proceed. But I look forward to hearing your thoughts on that. I can let you know, too, that at the special meeting, we approved a discussion item to ask the manager and the attorney to draft legislation on a topic that Board Member Aparicio, I know, has spoken about before, about the five feet right-of-way in front of the houses to try to maintain those at street level. So I hope that we'll be taking that up in October. Also at the special meeting, the mayor raised an item about... two houses that are identical side by side. And what are laws said about that? I think the discussion was indeterminate. But I did mention that this was something that the design guidelines might address. So I don't know that there's any specific course of action on that topic. But I encourage you to talk to the mayor if you want to hear his thoughts about it. But I think I think we left it that it would might be addressed through design guidelines. Otherwise, I see that the speed bump design is on the agenda as a discussion item. I look forward to hearing your thoughts about that. I can report as of today that three commission members asked the manager to put this item on a special meeting agenda for Tuesday night, September 30th. So we should be able to hear your recommendations tonight. I can relay them and we'll be discussing it at the meeting on Tuesday night. So with that, I'll take any questions.

Questions for our liaison? Seeing none, thank you very much.

You're welcome. Thanks.

We'll move forward to approval of minutes. Anyone have questions, comments, or a motion for approval?

Motion to approve. I second.

All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. Moving to agenda and order of business. Any comments, changes to the order of the agenda?

No.

Okay, seeing none, we'll proceed as planned. Moving to our applications. Madam Chair, if I may interrupt for one moment. Yep.

May I read the statement?

Yep, I was just about to hand you the mic.

Go for it. Thank you. Thank you. Tonight's meeting of the Planning and Zoning Board is an in-person meeting as set forth in the town code. Applications in Section 5 of this meeting's agenda are quasi-judicial in nature. For each application, following presentation by staff and the applicant, the Board may take public comment, then close public comment, allow for rebuttal by the applicant, and then deliberate on a resolution. The quasi-judicial procedures require this Board to consider the evidence presented to it and base its decision on applicable law and primarily the evidence presented, whether by staff, applicant, or the public. The applicable law includes standards for issuance of design review approval pursuant to Section 90-19 of the Town Code, the design standards set forth under Section 90, Article 5 of the Town Code, and the signed code pursuant to Section 90-68, Article 6, and related sections under Chapter 90, Articles 7 and 8 of the Town Code as applicable. The evidence considered must be substantial competent evidence, meaning testimony or other evidence based on personal observation or relevant expert testimony that reasonable minds accept as adequate to support a conclusion. The board's conclusions are not to be the result of a popularity contest and may not be solely based on non-expert opinions. Anyone seeking to speak on an item should be given an opportunity to speak. Anyone seeking to testify on any item in section five of this agenda should be sworn before testifying and may be subject to cross examination. Anyone testifying without being sworn or subject to cross examination may do so, but such testimony may be considered in that content and given its due weight. The public may not cross-examine witnesses, but may request this board to ask questions of staff or the applicant. Anyone who seeks to testify on any item in Section 5 of this agenda should now rise and be sworn by the clerk.

Do you sort and affirm just the truth and only put the truth? You may be seated.

Clerk, please confirm compliance with the advertising and notice requirements.

Confirm.

Members of the board, have any of you had any ex parte communications about any of the applications now before you?

No.

Yes, I have spoken with James McKenzie about his application.

Do you believe you can still be fair and impartial in considering the application?

Yes.

So did I.

Do you believe you can still be fair and impartial in considering the application?

Yes.

Thank you, Chair.

Okay, thank you. We'll move forward with our first application, 9543 Harding Avenue, Bagel Boss sign.

Yes, good afternoon. This is an application for a sign permit for the 9543 Harding Avenue. Staff does recommend approval for this sign with two conditions, that the illumination should be white and a separate electrical permit will be required, a building permit. The application is requesting to place one reverse channel lit sign located on the wall above the entrance of 9543 Harding and this is in the business district. One wall sign is permitted per store frontage and allows for a maximum sign size of one square foot per linear foot of the frontage. The linear foot for this bagel shop is 30 feet while the sign is proposed to be 21 square feet. The sign size is in compliance. The applicant is proposing LED illumination, which is permitted according to the code, and the lighting will be white. Again, staff recommends approval of that sign.

Okay, thank you. Does anyone from the public wish to speak on this one? Seeing none, close the public hearing. Comments or questions from the board?

Nope. No.

I'll entertain a motion.

Motion to approve.

With staff conditions?

Yes.

Do I have a second?

Second, yes.

Madam Clerk, please call the roll.

Yes, Chair. Board Member Aparicio?

Yes.

Board Member Chavez? Yes. Chair LeCour? Yes. Motion carries. Thank you.

Moving on to 940 88th Street, new single family home.

Yes, staff has reviewed the application for this new single-family home and finds that it does meet the zoning code. As detailed in the submitted plans, the proposed home has an FAR of 0.56, which is less than the maximum permitted. At this time, the Planning and Zoning Board is due to review the home based on whether the proposed home is consistent with and in conformance with the design guidelines. If the board finds the proposal to be in compliance, Staff recommends approval with two conditions. One, that a separate permit is obtained for the landscaping, pool, driveway, and fences, and grading and drainage plans will be reviewed at the time of building permit application. This application requests approval of construction of a new two-story single-family home located at 940 88th Street and it is with the H30A zoning district. The property is 25,050 square feet and is located on the bayfront. The owner recently combined two lots through a unity of title and the two existing homes will be demolished and replaced with one 14,050 square foot home residence. The application came before the board at the August meeting and was deferred in order to address the board's comments. The applicant now presents the home with the following changes. The front driveway slope was reduced by adding one more step at the front entry and lowering the garage floor seven inches. The new slope is 5.5%, which is less than the 8.33 allowed on a handicap ramp. Basically in 36 feet, they're going up 24 inches. The center driveway was deleted and replaced with a pedestrian six foot wide gate and pillars. The remaining area, was used for landscaping and a walkway leading to the front steps of the home. The previous 12 foot wide rolling gate in front of the garage was changed to a 20 foot wide rolling gate. The two upper roofs with columns were at either side of the second floor, front facade were deleted. Garage door arches were eliminated and they are substituted with horizontal element. The first floor rear arch doors were changed to square top doors the following existing trees will remain, 17, 19, 18, 20, four, five, 55, 12, 13, and 39. Two new palms were added to either side of the home to hide the mechanical equipment on the second floor, and the soffit lighting was eliminated. Again, just to remind you, the lot coverage for the home is less than the maximum permitted for a two-story home at 39%. The total area of the house is 14,050 square feet and the floor area ratio is 0.56. The proposed home exceeds all setback requirements for the first story and the front and rear setbacks for the second story. The home is in compliance with the limited square foot for the second story being less than 65% of the first floor. AND STAFF DOES RECOMMEND APPROVAL WITH THOSE TWO CONDITIONS. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. WELCOME BACK. NO, I DON'T THINK IT IS. PUSH THE BUTTON AT THE BASE. Maybe raise it up a little bit. Still not hearing you in the mic.

Danny Sargon, architect for the project office at 34 Northwest 168th Street, North Miami Beach. Basically, I have addressed all the comments that the board had last month. And I'm here to answer any questions you may have.

Great, thank you.

I was going to describe the same thing that she did, but I already have it.

She was very thorough. OK, let me see if there's any comment from the public on this matter. No one's jumping up, so board members, comments or questions?

Well, I see that the changes are there, the driveway, the center entrance, the arch, so I don't have any comment right now.

Okay, Carlos?

I actually, I mean, I think it just looks so much better. I really think it did exactly what we asked it to and I appreciate it because it really, it looks great.

By the way, the owner also likes it very much. Thanks to you. That's important too. Thanks to you.

No, I mean, I'm happy we're working together to make the best of a situation like this because the house is infinitely more beautiful now.

I really appreciate it. I really appreciate it.

So, I mean, I looked at the house and I just, I think it looks great. So, I mean, the only comment I would have to say that's something for you to think of, it's just a comment that I forgot to say last time, is that, you know, the gates that you have in the front of the house sort of match the railing in the back.

Yeah.

Which, to me, they're a little bit thin, a little bit rail-y for a gate in a house. And I think that there's a sort of a... a potential for that railing to be maybe more substantial and maybe to be semi-solid?

No, it will. The things when you draw in preliminary plans, you don't want to draw every single little...

It's just a comment that I think that using the same railing for the gates as in the railings of the back, you know, although it might be sort of an obvious solution, Maybe you could look. I think that there might be a better solution for the gate and for the car gate. But I'm very happy, very happy with that.

Really appreciate you working with us.

Thank you very much.

I really thank you, because you're the one that came up with the ideas. So I want to thank you.

My only, as I'm flipping through this package, on page 27 is the bird's eye view of the subject property, which I'm hoping it's 27 of the PDF. And it highlights the mass. Maybe we can pull it up here. Can someone help us pull that up on the screen? We should remember to just have the agenda up here so that we can pull these up. Um, 27. Yeah.

Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.

So on page 27.

27. The one above it.

Sorry, guys. I can barely see.

One up. Yep. There we go. Yeah. So it's just the bird's eye view, and it shows the size and the scale and mass of this house compared to everything else around it. I know you're within code and everything, and I guess Looking at it this way was the first time I really saw just the sheer size of this. I'm wondering if you can think of, is there anything else we can do to sort of, especially the two neighbors on either side, maybe you could just walk us through sort of the green screen. Yeah, let me say something.

That Photoshop is out of proportion.

Okay. Because as you can see, they're super close to the other homes. Yeah.

I was going to tell you that it's off.

It's out of proportion. And the thing is that we had like five days to come back with all these drawings.

Okay. Yeah, because that scared me.

No, no, no, no. We have 10-foot setbacks. You see it's like almost on top of everything.

Yeah.

It's out of proportion.

Yeah. So maybe we can go to the landscape plan. And just where I'm going with this is I want to make sure that there's a sufficient green buffer on the side setbacks for the neighbors.

You know what image it is?

What number is it? I'm on page 36, which has some landscaping.

Well, but you have a little piece of a White House there. That's like the one that you're tearing down. So that is completely wrong.

Right. What you're showing us. So OK.

You're leaving the house that you're tearing down, the little white sliver of house there, that's actually coming down, you see? Right.

Yeah, so that whole rush is over. Your house have budged.

No, no. And also, we have a house next door, and you see an empty lot next door.

Yeah, this is completely wrong.

Yeah, yeah, this is all.

Yeah, so.

So my apologies. I had like three, four days to come up with the whole application, so. Okay. So my apologies.

Yeah, I would ignore this drawing.

So which page are you looking at? 36. 36?

Uh-huh.

This one?

Yep. You're going to have to zoom him out or in. One second. I want to just walk through the side setback landscape plan. Can you just verbalize for us what's?

I'm trying to move it. Hold on. The description is there for every single plant.

I mean, it looks like you've got a whole.

You see?

All of those circles are new plants. Yes. 100 gallon. Yeah. Okay.

and on the other side, so it looks like you've pretty much from. Yes, thank you. Yes, I appreciate you. Yeah, okay.

Just want to make sure.

I think that your drawings are, I'm looking at another drawing that is wrong, because you're showing the house to your left, like there's an empty lot, and then the house happens, and you know, obviously kind of off this one here. like this showing an empty lot here, and this is all wrong.

Hold on, you want to see the other side of the problem?

No, no, no, I don't. I mean, I live across the street, so I'm not worried about it. I'm just saying it's the massing of the house to the left and to the right, I think it's pretty, it goes fairly well with this new massing. I think that both houses have pretty similar sort of massing, so I'm... I think your drawing's not showing really the actual context. Your neighbors actually are as high as you are on both sides, so.

Okay, I'm convinced that the green screen is sufficient. Thank you. I needed help to look at that. So I'm good to go. I think you've literally addressed every single comment we raised last time. So I would entertain a motion.

Yeah, motion to approve as is.

With staff conditions.

With staff conditions.

Can I have a second?

I second.

Madam Clerk, please call the roll. Yes, Chair.

Board Member Aparicio?

Yes.

Board Member Chavez?

Yes.

Board Member Solares? Yes. Chair LeCour? Yes. Motion carries.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, moving on to 9264 Byron Avenue, Home Edition.

Yes, this is the first home addition of the evening. The application meets the zoning code requirements. The planning board is asked to determine if the proposed is consistent with the design guidelines. The applicants are requesting site plan approval for an addition to a single family home at 9264 Byron. The applicant proposes adding 582 square feet to what is currently a single family home consisting of 1,574 square feet. The home will remain one story. The property is 5,628 square feet and the addition will be located in the front of the home. The proposed addition on the south side is a continuation of the existing side setback of four feet, seven inches. The applicant's design elements include 3D natural stone for the main facade and new paint color body for the wall material and finishes and aluminum post column louvers in a dark wood like finish and dark wood impact door. Based on the value of the home and the cost of the addition, the addition remains less than 50% of the value and the resulting FAR will be 0.38 and lot coverage will be less than 50%, which is the maximum for a single family home. With that, the staff recommends approval for this home addition.

Okay, thank you. Hi, are you here for the applicant? Okay, please state your. I'm the designer. Okay, great.

Kaylee Savitz.

And your address for the record, please.

My address? Yes. Oh, 2330 Northeast 192nd Street, Miami, Florida.

Okay.

Thank you. Go ahead.

Well, like she said, we're just looking to add an addition to the front of the house to extend the square footage to make it bigger. But we really want to preserve the current look of the house and just make it more contemporary. We're not looking to knock it down. We just want to add enough space so that we can extend and make the new family room. And then in the back, we're going to create a covered terrace and the pool. area. But all the design elements were chosen to harmonize with the current design. We really are not trying to put a modern house with a contemporary house. It's going to all flow together. I know one question was brought up regarding the roof. The current roof of the house is a shingle roof. So that's why the new roof would also be a shingle roof to match the existing home. I know that was a question that had come up. And so they told me to address it.

I certainly had that question. Yes. OK. OK. And we'll open to public comment, and we'll open it to the board, and I'm sure we'll have some questions for you. Thank you. Is there anyone from the public wishing to speak on this matter? OK. Seeing none, I will open it to the board.

Do you want to go for it?

OK. Go for it.

I'm a little bit miffed about what choice of architecture, what you've chosen to make an addition to this house, because there's sort of a mid-century revival that you're adding to something that didn't have it originally. I think that there is a bit of confusion of language. You leave the garage with this pitched roof onto the right side, and then you have this sloping you know 1950 sort of roof onto the left side which they seem to be very much at odds as a unit you know it i can't tell which the egg or the chicken came first you know it's just i don't i think it's a real problem of language that this house has and you know the front door with a little teeny window above it and then these lines going through the window and then one picture when there's one size, the other one's not. I just have very little to say as far as I just don't understand it. I don't get... the choices that are made, and I don't find it cohesive, you know, sort of totality to something that should be relatively easy to add onto a house like this. So, yeah, I'm kind of very confused as the language chosen to this, because actually I don't, I find that that is not cohesive. Don't see it. I mean, if we were to give me two sentences of what this house is, I think it would be hard time telling you what it is because I don't I don't know what it is. I don't know. It was. You know, I think it's a language problem. I think you haven't chosen particularly language that you want to explore as to make this house. Because when you add on to something that is existing, that is a quintessential sort of surfside, sort of cottage, one has to make a commitment to what language, how are you going to add on to this house? I mean, are you going to add something that is cohesive to the house or something that is more modern? But it has to have a language. It has to have the language to me that... makes sense and I don't see it here. I don't want to get into the particulars of the comments because I have a general sort of say about what this house looks like. That flying roof off to one side that goes nowhere and then that little dollhouse sort of garage onto the right hand side, I think that there is a real problem with language in this house.

Okay, thank you. Members on this side, comments, questions?

I'm looking at the inside of the house, right? So the highest part of the house is just ceiling right there's no not a room or anything yeah okay so because i've seen a couple of designs like this that i personally like it like them and on that part the highest part they have like a big window that even it looks like a piano right but yeah i agree with with uh carlos the garage side but I think that these design could improve if you instead of having that little window you have like a big nice yeah window well it's not going to be open which facade the front facade yeah on the highest part so from the door to the highest point You know, you have a window. Yes, exactly. I've seen those designs, and personally, I like them. I don't know what to do with the garage.

Maybe with the garage. I mean, we didn't want to touch the existing roof, so maybe we do have to change it.

Why did you pick the angled? Why is the roof angled like that?

The new addition or the... No, the new addition.

What did you pick that?

We wanted to gain the height and then we also wanted to... We didn't want to continue the same low angle. It's really much to gain the height and to modernize it because it still modernizes it without creating a box. And then it cover it from the front facade. You don't see the back original roof.

Well, the problem is that you're not really modernizing because actually this is... The house looks nostalgically mid-century. So it doesn't look like you modernize it. It looks like... it's you're copying a mid-century house, but it also doesn't have the transparency that you associate with them. I'm not against the modernity of the house. The fact that if you're going to do a Brady Bunch sort of roof on a house, the whole point of it is that there has some transparency, like there's some glass or There's some atrium. Because you have that angle, then you put very conventional sized windows onto the front. the whole space that you're supposed to be gaining is just, there's not a cohesiveness between, you know, if you give me a slanted roof that somehow made sense, I don't have necessarily anything, I don't like it, but if it makes sense, I would be okay with it. It's just that there is a disconnect between the slant roof and what the facade looks like. I think that you either have to pick a different kind of roof or the slant has to become more of a feature, more of a glass transparency, something that is less... You know, you have the front door and then you have this... weird clear story little window up there and then you have these lines that go over there. Do you understand what I mean? It's just like a kit of parts that don't really make sense as language.

Yeah, the angle followed the original angle of the house and then we extended it to cover the front. But maybe, yeah, by adding more clear story windows or larger clear story windows, we can make it more like a feature.

So if I could say something. So when I look at this, what I see is the angle of the roof I agree with your comments, but they don't bother me as much as I just think it's completely disconnected from the garage. I think what you're trying to accomplish is killed by the garage. So maybe we change it to a flat roof. Even if you would have had a different angle to the garage to be more cohesive with the house, I'm not saying they would have loved it, but it would have made more sense to me. And then there's a lot going on with the size of the windows, doors, everything. You've got that big window with the smaller window next to it. Then you've got the little window on top of the door. I mean, I agree. I think there's a lot of disconnect with the design.

It also was a little difficult just for me. The plans were so small, you know, four elevations crammed on one page. I think it would help us understand your vision if you could, you know, show the east elevation in a full-scale drawing, you know, one elevation per page so that we could understand it. I don't know if we have any renderings here. On the first page of the My comments are primarily around the materials. We don't permit asphalt roofs in Surfside, so I'd like to see you do a roof that blends with our town.

I'm sorry, even though the original roof is asphalt?

Yeah, we don't permit new houses to have that. So if you're going to make a significant renovation, I'd like to see a roof that is within our current guidelines. And then the natural stone, it looks to me like it's wood, like it's trying to be wood. Okay. Okay. This looks like you were trying to be wood, but now that I see it. would look aluminum. We don't like that either. We don't like materials that are trying to be something they're not. So I think we would be much more supportive of just a bronze aluminum frame than trying to look like wood. But the stone looks like it's actually stone, so that's good.

I think if you pick, you know, architecture is already done. You're not inventing the wheel. So if you were to pick the mid-century sort of feel for the house, you have to study what these houses feel like and when they really make them be beautiful. I think that because you chose that slanted roof and I don't, let's say that I say it's okay. I mean, I think it's okay. I don't have anything necessarily, I don't like it, but I don't have anything against it. You have to understand that the slant roof is making that roof fly over glass. Because it was always thought to be as a wing of a plane. So it flies. So if you do that roof, and then you do this heavy masonry facade broken down into a catalog of windows, a weird door, this weird stone, and you go against the grain of the lightness of the architecture. you're choosing an architecture that has to feel light if that's what you want to do. You can't do a slanted roof and then not a light architecture because there's a disconnect between the two. I think you need to simplify the language You can make it happen, but you need to go back to simplifying, pick what is the language you want to go for, and then make that work. And then choose things that support that sensibility, not just random materials that get slapped onto a house that doesn't really go with. That material would never go with a house like this, so I think that... It's not that complicated what you need to do. You just have to clean up the board and just make it a lot simpler.

I think we have somebody who would like to. I think that's a key.

I think it's just simplify the facade. Let's let the owner speak. Just state your name and address for the record.

Joseph Rosanel, 60194 Street. Nice meeting you. I've been a resident for about three and a half years in Surfside. I've been watching you guys through the camera for about a year. So I got to learn kind of a little bit what you guys are looking for. Obviously, we... When I purchased this property, obviously knocking it down and making a two-story home was an option, but I did not want to go that route. I heard you loud and clear at all of those meetings. You wanted to preserve Surfside, the quaintness and everything with it. I'm not familiar with the architectural style, whether they're mid-century, modern, etc. I just like the design of this house. So my question to you, I'm not attached to any of those things 100%. I'm just trying to do an expansion because the house is quite small. We've been working with Scarlett for about three months. It has been difficult to get a meeting and putting on a schedule and doing all the plans. I'd rather not delay if possible. It cost me quite a bit of money to carry this house just because the plans are here and I'm trying to see what needs to happen. So my question to you is, is there anything on here that's a deal breaker for you? And if not, is there any possibility? You tell us what you would like to see. I'd be happy to put it in. And if it's possibility to get an approval on condition, that would be much appreciated.

Yeah, I mean, I think my reading of the board thus far is that I don't sense a strong approval here. I think there's too much going on. I think we cannot design the house for you. We've given you high level feedback, lack of cohesion, architectural style is unclear. I think you have a designer and an architect for that reason. I think she probably can facilitate that feedback and we'd happy to have you come back next month. We're also, most of us can be available between now and then to react to a revised drawing. So that would probably be the most expeditious path forward.

I mean, although it might feel like a setback, the same one of the previous person who came in front of us, you saw what happened. They ended up being grateful to us because actually the house is better. This is not any different. We won. I'm OK with even holding expectations if you want the slanted roof. It just has to be right. It has to be cohesive. So I think that giving yourself four more weeks in the scope of things and really. It's it's in your benefit and the interest of everyone. It's just now there's no. It's not enough here for us to, we can't.

Concretely, could I have a summary of, I understand cohesiveness, you're okay with the slanted roof, I guess, if it's cohesive with the garage on the other side?

I think that you can reach out to our contact information, and you can reach out to us individually, and if we can, we will help, and I think that's the best way to go.

Yeah, I think it's architectural cohesion, materials, roof. Everything has to be cohesive with the design. I did have one other question, which was regarding the trees. You have two beautiful sprays of palms right in the beginning, the front elevation. Are you keeping those? OK, great. OK, so I think with that, it sounds like we want a motion to defer to the October meeting. Am I reading the room correctly? Okay, can I someone make that motion motion to defer to the next meeting. Okay. Do I have a second?

I second.

Okay.

Madam clerk, please call the roll. Yes, sir. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. See you next month. Okay.

Moving on to 92 36 Bay drive home edition.

Yes, this is our second home addition for tonight. The staff has reviewed it based on the code and finds that it does meet code. And again, it's up to the board to review it based on the design guidelines. We would recommend that they submit a drainage and grading plan at the time of building permit to be reviewed. They are requesting site plan approval for an addition of Naomi Home at 9236 Bay Drive. The applicant proposes adding 1,656 square feet to what is currently a single family home consisting of 3,827 square feet. The home will remain a two-story structure. The property is 11,693 square feet and the single family homes are permitted in this zoning district. No variances are requested. The addition will be located in the front of the home. The proposed addition in the front will remain approximately 25 feet from the property line. then based on the value of the home and the cost of the addition, the addition remains less than 50% of the value, and the resulting FAR will be .46, and the lot coverage remains less than 40%. And with that, staff finds that we recommend approval for this addition to single family home.

Thank you. Hi. Hi.

Hi, how are you?

Good. Please state your name and address for the record.

My name is Salmi Meyer. Address is 335 South Biscayne Boulevard, Miami, Florida, 33131. So I'm the architect for this project. Thank you guys for considering the application. Essentially what we have here is we have an existing two-story home, like she said. I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with this. I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with this, you know, home in the neighborhood, but the way it's set right now, it kind of is, uh, you know, set far back with just a single story garage in the front. Um, so when you kind of drive by the house right now, the only thing you see just is that garage, unless you kind of look directly back, the home is not, it's a built in 2004. I think it's very much a character of its time right now. And essentially the owners have lived here for 12 years. They're good members of the community and they just had their sixth child and are really looking to expand. They have their oldest child is going to college in the fall semester upcoming. And really the point of this project was just to be able to expand and give them more livable space. We didn't want to reinvent the wheel too much, but we did want to just kind of create something that felt, you know, a better curb appeal, something that felt more deserving of the surf side, something that felt a little less 2004 for less of a better, you know, analogy. And yeah, I'm here to answer any questions you have.

Okay, thank you. Anybody from the public wish to speak on this one? Okay, board members? Start on this side.

Well, my first thought is that, yes, it will improve the site of that house, or at least when you go through that street. I was just trying to understand. So your addition, and I'm looking at the blueprints here, but so I see that you're adding the roof. So you're extending the house, right? So the garage doesn't look like it's just separate. So you're adding a roof.

Yeah, exactly. So the site plan is kind of the best way to say it. Right now, there's an existing garage and a long walkway that comes to it. What we're doing is we're preserving that walkway and that kind of openness, but we're bridging over it. So we're building on top of the existing garage. We're not bringing the house any more forward. We have a 20-foot setback, but we're keeping it at 25 feet. And we're just kind of bridging over that house because...

So now it's going to become like a hallway, right? Exactly. Okay.

So that big arch becomes kind of like a grand entry, and then you have a nice garden space and, you know, area with raised planters to walk through.

Okay. That's it.

Other comments?

I have a lot of comments.

All right. Let them out nicely.

Okay. The top volume and the bottom volume are in the same plane?

They are the same plane. I have a roof going through them just to break up the wall a bit.

that division between the two with that little sort of hokey roof between this first and the second floor, I know you're trying to do it, I know you're trying to break the massing, but that tacked on roof that does nothing because it's really not, it's very problematic to me. I mean, I have a lot of different bits and pieces about the, I'm gonna accept the massing, the overall massing, it's actually about, More about the way you've detailed the house that I have issues with, so it's not that bad. I think that the house on top of the other house, I think that there is a bit of a disconnect between the first floor and the second floor. And I think that there is a cacophony of windows on this facade that it's a bit off. I think that... You know, I look at the three windows on the top, and then you have the higher one to the up window, and then you have the same window down below, and then you have the three arches, and then you have another arch, and then the front doors, sort of ultra-modern Miami, sort of off to one side, solid door with a glass piece. I think that I have a real problem with the language of the house. Not with the massing of the house. I mean, I wish that you had set back a portion of the second story from the garage elevation. I think that the house, it's a lot more massive that these perspectives show them to be. I think that you're cheating by presenting this a not real elevation.

This is what you asked for. You asked for the three-quarter elevation.

But I also have for elevations, which we don't really have. And what I'm saying is, I really think that you should have explored to set back, not a lot, but I think that the house is a lot more massive. You know, you went from a house that you can barely see, you know, that like literally just saw a garage to like coming out with full force ahead with these huge wall to store a wall onto the street.

Yeah.

So I think that even as a house, as a project, I think that the house needs one more go to make it better. And I think that if I can, I'm speaking for myself, not speaking for the other ones. I think that not changing much of what you're doing, I think that what you really need to... The house is infinitely better from the back. I think the house is much better when you look at the back. It's more cohesive. I think they've done a better job of articulating the back of the house with the volume that comes out of the right and then the balcony and then the... You guys seeing what I'm seeing? The back of the house with the green and the balcony and the manipulation of the volumes is so much softer and it's so much successful. I think that the front of the house is a little bit, it almost looks like the second story to the left. It almost looks like you infilled that corner somehow. It's very, it doesn't look like you intended to look like this. It looked like someone added a room up there. It's not cohesive. The massing of the front of the house, to me, is not cohesive.

Yeah, I think... And the two-tone doesn't help either. Yeah, I...

I was going to ask, the massing or the material? I think it's both.

It's a little bit of both. I think, you know, in a way, I think it's nice that you're bringing the actual habitable space of a home into the front facade, because right now it's so weird the way it's just a garage, so... you know, I think that's a good thing. But when I looked at this, I was like, whoa, you're bringing the entirety of that second floor right to the line. And I wonder if you couldn't step back, have some softening instead of the roof, you know, separator, could you just have a fixed planter there that had some vines coming, you know, or something?

Yeah. So it's funny. I had the actual exact opposite thought just kind of coming in in terms of the render where I feel like the render makes it feel bigger than it is. But So I misspoke kind of slightly. This top part in the pier is pulled back from the space beneath it, and that will be kind of like a little Widow's Peak small balcony, and that will have a planter there, as you can see, with vines coming down and everything like that. The two-tone we can definitely figure out and get rid of if that's what's going to be holding it back. In terms of the roof line, that was like a late addition for me. That was kind of the last thing I put there. Um, just again, for the opposite reason that without it, it felt like the house was very tall. Um, even though, you know, we're still within the height setback, it was feeling very tall. So I, you know, had added that line there just for the sake of, you know, kind of bringing it down to the, the neighborhood a little bit more.

And then I also wrote down the window thing. Um, you have some, some windows with mullions, I think, um, or maybe that was just in the drawing, but yeah, the windows, even on the front facade are don't quite make sense to me.

I'm going to be very succinct in what I think, my opinion. I think that you need to drop that little mark. I know you did it with the intention of trying to break down the volume, but I think it does the opposite. I think it makes it look like you just made an addition on top of a house that existed. It's not cohesive. And I think if you drop that little mock thing, which is actually kind of old, that mock thing doesn't do anything for you or for anyone. I have a problem with the front door. I think the front door should be symmetrical and it should be maybe taller or different than it is. I don't think it goes with the house.

The portal or the actual door?

I'm looking inside into the door of the house. I think that asymmetrical thing, it's not quite to the level I think of sophistication of the house should be. And I think you should see more glass in there. You should see more transparency looking through that arch. And then let's hold the thought of the three arches above and the window. I think that you need to work on how to get rid of, you have the garage door, and then you have that high, weird rectangular window there that it's just an eyesore. I know that you might need a window there, but you need to have a better resolution architectural for that window there. Because it looked like you just, I needed a window, so we just put a window there.

Yeah, the window there is a bathroom. That's its reason for being high.

I got it, but I'm just saying you're talented enough. You can do better. I'm just saying that this needs one more go to me to make it a better house and a better project for the town and for everyone. But it's also, I think, that you need to find a way on the left-hand side. My eye tells me if there's a way to push back that volume and like Lindsay was saying, to create a planter up there and just soften, like you did in the back. It's exactly what you did in the back. The back is beautiful. It's exactly like you did in the back. Do it in the front.

The back is cohesive.

It's cohesive, exactly. The back is very cohesive. The front isn't. I was surprised it's the same house because I want to flip it. I want to turn it around and say, wow, the part of the house that no one's going to see is actually the nicest part of the house.

That's my comment. The back of the house is beautiful, but the back of the house, it's almost like the house continues with the same problem. I know this house really well. I walk in front of it, and this is definitely an improvement, but it still looks like an afterthought, the front. The back of the house is beautiful. The front of the house, I have an issue with the garage. I don't know why, but...

I did, too. I did, too.

Yeah, I have an issue with the garage. In the back, you have windows that are cohesive with each other. In the front, it's all different things. And I agree with the comment about the front door. I also have a bit of a problem with the front, and you can help me with the term, the archway with the greenery on top that almost looks like it has like a crown molding edging at the top. Again, it looks like it was put on after the fact.

I think the front of the house has to look exactly like the back of the house. The same language and the same.

Agreed.

You can do it. You just have to drop the arches, drop the random windows.

Agreed. Drop all of that.

And you'll be done. Because that back is beautiful. I think the back of the house, you're spot on. And you need to take that same language, the same windows, the same divisions, and make it work in the front. Okay.

Is the height of the second floor higher than the height of the first floor in the back?

The, no.

Okay, it might just be the angle.

No, the roofline's consistent throughout.

Okay.

And I also think that the fence on the outside, it's a lot of fences. It's a bit of a chicken. It's a lot of fencing.

On which side?

On the street side. I think it's a lot of metal. I think the house needs to be more sophisticated. I think you need to mix hedge with metal. I don't know if you guys agree. I think it looks like you're keeping pigs in there. No, it looks like a corral.

I don't know that I would say that, but it definitely, again, feels disconnected from the house.

I'm driving a point that I'm saying the house, I really like the back of the house. I think it's beautiful. I think it's beautiful. And I think he's going to make it work.

It looks like two different houses.

To me, it looks like two different houses. But we want to give you enough guidance so you know what to do. So when you come back, hopefully, if you want to come back in a month, then we're on our way.

No, for sure. I think... Funny enough, the back, I was worried it would be too modern. So that's why we wanted to soften up the front with more.

We don't have a problem with modern as long as it's cohesive.

Okay.

What do we want to recommend with the garage door? The garage door is existing.

Yeah, I was going to say.

Oh, it's existing. That's the, that being the existing door.

Yeah, well, not the door itself, but the garage.

Make it disappear, basically.

We're building on top of it.

Well, you know, you have to choose between that random bathroom door there and the garage. You know, that whole thing needs to be worked out.

I'd get rid of those. Does that garage have those windows existing in them?

Yes, I believe so.

You're spending a few bucks. You can get a new garage door.

Actually, no, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. The existing does not. It doesn't have it.

No, we're making the garage door a little smaller, actually.

Oh.

But again, I think the success, you need to find a way of giving the play of massing that you have in the back of the house to the front of the house. I think that's the key to make it right. We want to give them enough guidance to say that's what we want to see.

Yeah, I think we've been pretty clear. The only other question I had is, are you removing any trees yet?

We're not really removing any trees, and in fact, we're adding about 50% or 60% more trees to the property. Fantastic. Awesome.

Yeah, the sides look really well, lushly landscaped.

I don't know why the landscape plan didn't make it into this version, but the entirety of the side, those are all new trees on both sides.

Do us a favor when you come back and make those renderings full-size, full-page renderings. We look at it electronically, so we're not printing it out.

So is it all arches completely, just zero out the arches, even the big one at the front, you want everything to be squared off?

I mean, I... We want it to be cohesive, I think, is the...

I think what the arch does for you, and that's one of the things that I dislike so much, is that when you look through the arch, you see all that masonry in there, and then you see this low door there, a lack of transparency that... The back doesn't have. The back is so ethereal and elegant and cohesive. And I think that the arch doesn't go with the front door. And so it's not necessarily we're saying anything. I just don't see why you would pick arches. I mean, I don't understand. The house doesn't seem to be.

The existing house has an arch.

Yeah, the existing house does have an arch. So we're just kind of bringing that up.

But you're getting rid of that from what I can tell.

Yeah, who cares about the existing house? I'm just saying the language. If you show me the front of the house and the back of the house, I would think they're two completely different projects. And I do not like the two tones. I don't like the, I don't know what it is, I don't even know what the materials are, but I don't think that you need to, I don't know if my colleague, they agree with me, but I don't, in the back it doesn't bother me that much because the base of the back, It's a base, and then you have the other volume sitting on top. But in the front, it doesn't work.

So let me just try to summarize for you if it's helpful.

I think that in the back, it doesn't bother you because there's less of it also.

I don't like the two-tone, so I'm just saying.

No, no, I'm saying. What you're saying is it bothers me too, but I'm saying in the back, it doesn't bother as much.

Because you barely see any of it.

Yeah, exactly. There's so much of it. Sorry.

Cohesiveness, cohesion, colors, materials, the disconnect between the top and the bottom, the windows, front door scale and transparency, the front fencing, softening that up, and then the two-tone paint I think is also part of that, you know, cohesion of the two stories.

I think also we need a... I mean, it's something we asked for, which I think for a house of this caliber, I mean, we would like to see, you know, just print out these elevations in large format so we can look. You know what I mean? It's really hard for us to see the level of detail that we require in order to make comments. So I think the presentation needs to be a little bit more substantial in my take of.

Do you have a material on your board there for the?

No, I know, but I'm just saying we need a little bit more invested. So, you know, little details like that bathroom window that you really have to open up to make sure that you have, it doesn't go unnoticed is what I'm saying. So if you have some of the drawings that you're very happy about, just print them large so we can look at them and, you know, make, you know, I need to blow up really to get into the details of what things look like. Okay.

Okay.

I do want to just go back one more time to the front arch, because that's a really, really big detail. And I don't want to leave here without getting some form of a consensus on it. You know, whatever you guys say, obviously, we'll work around and we'll figure it out. But, you know, it's a big enough detail, I want to at least get something on the record of, you know,

Well, we're not designing the house for you, but... Just one comment.

If you see the previous or the current door, it makes more sense with the arch than the modern one for me, right? Because it looks more...

I mean, look at that elevation. When you see that arch and you see the door behind, it doesn't... It's like two different things. It's like, why would that arch go with that door?

I think what you're trying to do is you're identifying the pedestrian entry to the home, which I appreciate. Well, you're wanting to maintain that setback of the actual door, right? So, you know, I think that concept is okay. You know, I don't know if it becomes sort of a design. I'm not an architect, so, you know, I don't have a specific.

I just think it's the type of the door because the one above looks better, right?

I think in the back you have columns and tablatures. In the front you should do the same thing because it allows you to have a front door. There's glass and it connects down to the back of the house. Some of the back of the house should come to the front of the house. So I think that's one opportunity to bring is you don't have many chances to bring that amount of glass onto the front of the house. So that's one chance of queuing the front of the house to the back of the house is by saying square and then having glass. So it looks just like pieces of the back of the house. So this arch doesn't do any, it disconnects the house to where you want to connect it. So it's working against you. It's not like I have anything against the arch. It just doesn't make sense what you're doing in the back. And we all agree the back is working and the front isn't. So I would drop it like a, yeah.

Yeah, I think something not arched.

Okay, okay.

All right, so I think we will, I will entertain a motion to defer. Is the next meeting workable for you or do you want us, okay.

Yeah, we'll defer to the next meeting.

Entertain a motion to defer to the next meeting.

Motion to defer to the next meeting.

Is there a second? Second.

Madam Clerk, please call the roll. Yes, Chair. Board Member Aparicio?

Yes.

Board Member Chavez? Yes. Board Member Solarez? Yes. Chair LaCour? Yes. Motion carries. Thank you.

Thank you very much. See you soon. Okay, moving on to 8850 Byron Avenue.

Yes, this is an application is requesting approval for a proposed new two-story single-family home on an interior lot measuring 5,625 square feet. The property is 8850 Byron Avenue. It is an interior lot of typical size in the district. The front facade features exterior design elements, including origami paint, white paint, and exterior stucco with finishes in metal, carpentry, bronze, aluminum, and seashell pavers. The front facade offers articulation on both first and second floor with a recessed entryway that adds visual interest. The rear of the home has several material finishes, same material finishes as the front and sides. The proposed lot coverage is 30% of the lot for the first floor and the floor area ratio is 0.52. setback calculations for additional second floor were provided and they meet the minimum requirements. A preliminary landscape plan was also submitted and full landscape and civil plans will be provided at building permit application process. This application did come before you two times and the applicant is I wonder if we can prop it up. It's reconsidered tonight. Thank you. Is this a rendering?

Oh, oh, okay. Sure.

Sorry.

Okay. Carly, go ahead. Good evening, board members. Carly Koeschel, offices at 200 South Biscayne Boulevard here on behalf of KWC 20 LLC, the owner of 8850 Byron Avenue. With me this evening is the beneficial owner of the property, your former colleague and distinguished architect James McKenzie. So the property is located on the west side of Byron Avenue between 88th Street on the south and 89th Street on the north. It's kind of in the southeastern section of the town. And as background, James purchased this property in 2020 specifically as a home for his daughter. And he's used his architectural expertise and nuanced understanding of the town's code to design an incredible new home for his family. The proposed home meets all new zoning code requirements for single family homes and is below the town's maximum permitted FAR, lot coverage, and all important town parameters. As Scarlett mentioned, the project may look familiar to you as you last reviewed it and commented on the design in May. Since that time, a number of modifications and clarifications have been made to the plans and the proposed designs, which can be grouped into five overarching categories. The first relates to grading and site compatibility. The second relates to massing, volume distribution, building form. The third relates to transitional and habitable architectural elements. The fourth is fenestration, where windows are placed. And the fifth is landscaping. And with that, I'm going to hand it over to James, who has put his heart and soul into this design. And we look forward to discussing your comments. Thank you.

A man who needs no introduction.

No.

But still state your name and address for the record.

You got a little grayer. More gray on the left.

I'm getting older every day, especially if I keep doing this. James McKenzie, 8842 Hawthorne Avenue, Surfside, Florida. That's my home. Okay. I think... Much has been said about the project, and we'd like to just focus on those points that Carly just pointed out. With respect to, by the way, I think the comments that you've had have, in my view, helped us move this project in a much better way. It puts us in a better light, I think. I hope you agree. The front facade was a little of an issue, but let me stick to the points. The slide that was looking at grading and site compatibility, there was a lot of discussion at the beginning regarding the slope from the street up to the understory, which is the... In reality, it's the same elevation as the existing floor of the existing house. So we're not modifying the slope at all. And we can show you further along some pictures that'll show that the house to the north as well as the house to the south has the same slope moving from the curb up to the front of the house. One thing that we do want to point out here regarding grading, which I think is very important, is that the existing house is what you see in the white on the upper side of that slide. And you can see that all that white is occupied by a home. all the green is the pervious area. What we've done by using the understory concept that's allowed is to generate a lot more pervious area. so that this house is more resilient and is more sustainable as our hurricanes get stronger and stronger. And sometimes we, with small rains or short rains, sometimes we get flooding all over town. So it's important to note. that the understory in this case is a benefit towards that goal of maintaining a lot of pervious area so that things don't get so flooded or at least the water can go somewhere. Besides the fact that we are creating a lot more pervious area on the ground floor, we're also managing, trying to manage as much as we can by creating underground French trains. And this next slide shows the, the sides on the side setbacks. Maybe you can point that out, Sebastian. So it's easier for them to look in this drawing and identify where we are. These are the French trains that we are putting along these setbacks, seven and a half foot setbacks. So we have plenty of room to capture a lot more rain and bring it to the subsurface so that it could dissipate. Um, This is a section that at one point we were asked to do, and I think it was important that we were asked to do, so that we can understand the relationship of the two homes to the north and the south, and please point out where they are, and our proposal. Because at some point, sometimes these renderings, as you heard from previous architects here, are out of proportion because it's so hard to proportion a photograph to something that's existing. But we tried our best. We went out and got permission to take some measurements of both houses to the north and south. And this is the best we could do to try to show the actual bulk of our home, the new home, that meets all the requirements, by the way. The flat criteria is eight. The free board and serve side is plus two, which means our first habitable floor has to be at 10. By using the understory, it allows us to stay on half the lot at the same grade as the current houses. And then only half of that structure is being raised in the front to the plus 10. And it goes all the way to the back. That would be, if you could show them, please. that whole section is at plus 10, while the northern section is all at the same level as the existing lot. I think that brings a lot of benefits, not just in terms of flooding and so forth, but also articulation. A lot of the houses that we've seen here over the years, new homes, take the entire house up to 10. This is a different way to look at the same problem, taking advantage of one of the code permitted uses, which is the understory. From front to back, we'll have in the understory the garage. Then we'll have a stair in the middle of the building, which Sebastian can point out also in the drawing above. You can see the massing of the stair is the only element that actually hits the 30 foot height required, the maximum height required for a flat roof. And as you can see, everything else is scaling down. So furthermore, further along we'll see that there's percentages on the right, for example, where the 29 foot 11, which we'll call it 30 for the sake of argument, is only 11% of the roof of this house. Everything else is going down. So when you add up the top two, for example, 28, 9, which is also very close to the 29 or the 30, you have about 31%. of the roofs being sort of close or hovering the 30 feet height. Everything else is pretty much within the height, and we can go back one slide, within the height of the existing hips of the sloped roofs of both the north house and the south house. So we just wanted to point that out because I think we were asked to do the sections and it was a good exercise to show that in this particular house, not only are we trying to articulate the massing so the massing is not so bulky into these three or four parts that you see, but also trying to play down the height of the new home. We realize that we're working in an architectural style that is modern, which is sort of very typical of what's happening with all the new construction in town. but we're trying to elevate that to a different level, at least from our perspective. Of course, we all have different tastes, and we all have different opinions, but we just didn't simply work with the heights to break out the mass, but we also tried to create some detailing around those fenestrations. so that there's a little bit of, it's not so cut and dry as just simply popping a hole in the wall. So we have some aluminum elements that you can see samples of, and Sebastian can bring them to you if you need to, in a slight bronze. that create this little sort of, that accompany the openings and it's also accompanied by a dark black metal that is stuck to the actual walls so that there's an articulation so you see that these elements, these decorative elements are actually floating instead of just being stuck up against the wall. I'm only mentioning it because a lot of time has been expended in trying to do something special for all the community. I think we talked about the heights, we talked about the articulation. I don't know if we're missing anything. transitional architectural elements are something that the guidelines actually promote. Old homes in Surfside do have front porches. I know I live in one. And they actually do have second story balconies as well. And so we, because I live in one of those, and we actually use the front porch and we actually use the upper balcony. As a matter of fact, and this is just on a side note, we did an addition to my house towards the lake and we put a roof garden so that we can enjoy a second floor view of the lake and stuff. So it's one of the motivations that brought about the transitional habitable spaces in the front of the house. In the back of the house, you'll see the same. On the side facades, the fenestration, there was some commentary about too much wall, very little opening. And so we took some comments from you in the previous presentations that lineal clerestory window is the word that Lindsay was trying to look for. We actually implemented it in the living room. Sebastian can point to it. The house has in the ground floor, as you go from the street towards the backyard, the clerestory window is in the living room, just so you get an idea. And then it transitions into the kitchen and dining room facing the pool. The kitchen has a square window behind the tree. By the way, that section of the house is a little pushed back. It's not in the same plane as the other two planes of the living room and dining room, and you can see that in the floor plans. The same happens on the rendering below where the stair is pushed back another two feet. So we have seven feet, seven and a half feet set back plus two. So we're almost 10, nine and a half feet is where the glazing on that stair is. It was started that way so that it could give us an opportunity to have more space to plant a tree that could give privacy both to the neighbor as well as to the people that are using this home. So all the, there's a play of, unfortunately these drawings show things very flat, but the two planes on the right or left of that stair are on the same plane, except the stairs push back, yeah? Fenestration, according to the guidelines, it reads that at least 10% of the wall needs to have fenestration. We have increased those percentages, and that's what you see in this. Some of the percentages are in the 30s, 42, 18, 27.5, 35. There's a lot of glass in this house, and part of the challenge was to give it a lot of luminosity inside and take advantage of views towards the street and towards the landscape in the back and the pool, but also make it so that the fenestration is not into somebody's bedroom or there's privacy between the two houses. We took advantage of the seven and a half foot setbacks to put a lot of planting and a fence at six foot. So I think overall we've been sensitive to the neighbors and we've been sensitive, hopefully you find that to be the case. As you know, we all have different perceptions, but this is our take on that. And here's the landscape plan. Because we have so much greenery around the house, especially, I didn't mention this before, but in this floor plan, you can see it, the code reads that your ground floor setback in the front has to be 20, and then you have to set back your second floor 15 feet. what we did here is we pushed the south side of the property all the way back to 35 feet from the street so that we could have this large garden in the front facing the street and and only the the the one story volume and i say one story because the understory is not to be interpreted as a story because it's an understory It's a play of words, I guess, but in reality, we do see two levels, right? But that section, which is going back to the heights, is only the understory plus the one bedroom on top is the lowest of the entire house, is the only thing that projects to the setback line of 20 feet. With that, oh, in working with Carlos, and I don't know if he wants to be mentioned here, but... We took advantage of trying to put a little garden on the second floor terrace. Second floor, Sebastian. Yeah, second floor terrace. That is a terrace that goes all the way back to the center of the property, which is where the stair is. But we thought it would be very nice since there's some, we happen to be a family that loves trees and landscape, so. We put it, we set back the wall and then we created an opportunity to have plants in front of that balcony of that bedroom in the front. And, you know, without any questions that you may have.

Thank you. Quite a transformation. And I'm sure we'll have some questions. Just want to make sure nobody else in the public wants to speak. Okay. Thank you for that presentation. Board members, questions or comments?

I like it. Just that. It's really nice.

It is beautiful, huh? Carlos?

You know what Lindsay's going to say.

It's not going to be that easy.

She's going to say, behave, Carlos.

It's not going to be that easy. It's going to be easy, but not that easy. That's OK. Just two questions. And I'm going to mention, because I want to go on record, that it's my opinion. I still think that that corner that we talked about, the second story and that Can you go to a perspective? You see the house from the side? From the front of the house from... You mean that one? Yeah, exactly. That one. Go back. That one. You know how I feel about that column there on the second story that I mentioned to you before. I particularly think that the house would feel a lot lighter if it didn't have that piece of masonry on the second floor next to the cypress. I just think that it would feel lighter and the second roof would actually just turn and hit the massing and it would feel a lot lighter. So I think that that small architectural detail to me, it would make... an insane improvement in the House, because I think, you know, I like the House now. But I think I mentioned it to you when we spoke, and I still feel very strongly about that column there. But, you know, that's just my take on it. I just think that the House will feel you will see the plane behind sliding, and then you'll see all the roof sliding, instead of that column there that seems redundant to me, to the two planes flying one on top of the other. Because in elevation, you have three rectangles that sort of are dancing about each other, but when you look at the side view of it, that one becomes a real column, when you don't have another column, you just have planes. So that one on top actually becomes one odd, one out, because the last two are actually pieces of wall, and that one in the corner is actually, to me, reads like a column. So that's just an observation from an architectures point of view. I think it would look better without it, but it's just my two cents. And I feel strongly about that one. But I think it's going to be beautiful either way. But I think it would look better without it. And the other one is that, I don't remember if we talked about this in the past or not, but since we always talk about the burning of the houses up to the properties, and we talked about that so much here, I'm a little bit curious why, I don't know if we touched on that or not, Have you thought of, because the house is so, it's one of the house that would benefit to me very much about having a flat landing. You know, the house is made out of these sliding planes. It's very planar, they're sort of sliding about each other. So I think it's a little bit contradictory to have a berm up to the house instead of having just a flat, you know what we talked about right at the property, just to go up and have a flat piece of land instead of berming up to the house.

Isn't the distinction here, though, that you're not going up as far? You're only going up. What is the gradient?

He's going up. He's going up. I think he's going up. It's Burme.

Carlos, we're setting the floor of the understory at the same elevation as the existing house today. And if you go to the site, you'll see.

No, I know the house. I'm just saying if you take the understory and take it across, you know what we talked about, not having the property, the grass ramp up in... You had a section that showed that showed it right right there.

We actually have a photograph because we see right right there. Remember that comment from you.

But you see right there you have that does the driveway correct. That's a slope.

Yeah. The real grass slopes at the same rate of the red and the greener where it is today. So we're not modifying anything, in fact. And the reasoning behind it is because both houses to the north and the south have the exact same slope. And so if we were to bring it out, like you're suggesting, we'd have to build a wall.

The house is to the left or the right. The property is burned up to the house?

Yes.

The grass is in a... All three properties share the same slope.

And that's why we kept it. Because otherwise we would have to bring... Don't we have that picture? Yeah.

Yeah, the pictures are over here.

You're saying that the side, the properties are berming up, the grass goes in the same berming up to either side?

Yes. Oh, okay. Those pictures are over here. That's why we left it, exactly.

That I didn't know. It's not very typical of Surfside to have such a, in an old house that steep. Please go by. Don't take my word for it. I was just there. Go by. I didn't pay attention, but yes. Okay, it's just a comment. I didn't know that you're sloping, the house is sloping at the same rate of the left and the right.

We left it alone because of the neighbors, especially the north neighbor.

No, no, that answers my question.

Are those all your comments? Wow. Apparently. Wow. Awesome. So I just want to thank you for the iteration here. I think you guys have I mean, this is such a thoughtful approach and design.

I mean, I think it's also a model presentation. It's a presentation that everyone should really hold up to. I mean, I think this is the level of presentations that this town deserves. And we're honored to have you because it's really that's what we need to see.

I'm hoping it becomes a model. You know, the landscaping, the green, all of it to the neighbors, the articulation, the materials. All of it, I think, is very, very sophisticated and beautiful. I have to go on the record for my one comment, though, which is the north elevation in the rear, to me, still reads as three stories because you have a other side.

but in the back.

Yeah, and so I'm a little confused with the plans as to how that space is being used.

In the floor plan maybe we can look at it?

Yeah, so originally I think that was a dining room.

No, here, we'll show it in the floor plan. It'd be easier. It's so cold in here. You always say that. It's amazing. I can't even talk. It's crazy.

Bringing down a blanket.

I thought of bringing one, by the way. I thought I would be really curious.

Puffer jacket.

I remember from sitting in the dais. On the lower level, you can see. I can't really see that. From right to left, we have the driveway.

What page is that? I don't think I have that page. Maybe I do. 201, is it part of the PDF? What page is it on? Yeah, 201. OK, I'm with you.

Lindsay, was you concerned that the rear reads like a three-story house?

Yeah, that's my only concern because originally there was like that grill there, the screening, which you removed. Took it out. I think what I'm understanding is there's a platform there that's going to hold equipment.

Okay, good. If you notice in this drawing, how should I say, the north wall, yeah? The north wall, it says carport, and then the north wall is open. Here there's a little gardener's bathroom and a pool shower. So you see that there's equipment, pool equipment, electrical equipment, washer, dryer, and so forth. That's a shelf that sits at plus 10, which is three feet above the floor. As you know, by code, we have to put all mechanical equipment above flood. And so 10 is the requirement here. So either we put some sort of a metal structure to lift up the air conditioning systems and put things up above. What we did was we just created a slab, a piece of slab that's coming off a wall. Right there. So that all this equipment can be sitting at plus 10. All this electrical equipment can sit at code requirement. So whether the slab goes away, we still have to have some sort of a metal structure with feet or whatever, something to support it.

Okay, so you've changed the use of that room because before you had like a dining table in there.

I mean, the room is a room. It's an empty space. But on the one side, it's going to have all the, you know, the... air handler, not the air handlers, the...

Pool equipment, yeah.

Pool equipment, compressors, and that sort of thing sitting there.

Can you go back to the rendering?

In the rendering, it looks like it's almost a surface that you sit on. It doesn't really look like it can hold equipment in there.

No, no, it's just a big room.

It's an empty room, and obviously for... You're seeing that in the perspective, in the pool perspective, from the pool side. Yeah. But in the daytime, see that?

Yeah.

Right, for the purposes of utilizing an empty space, we put a table there, but it could be outdoors. It doesn't have any walls.

Yeah, I just wonder if there's not a... I mean, you've been so thoughtful about everything else, but... I mean, I guess if that's going to be fold to the top with equipment and you've got a green screen in front of it, it's not going to be to the neighbor. I don't want to set a precedent of anything looking like a three-story. Typically, those are entirely open. you know, in the understory.

And they are. They are open on the front, like you see it, and on the north side.

I know, that's what I'm saying. Just that one area is the one area that feels... not quite true to the understory.

But what I'm saying is that she's saying that you're showing a shelf, but in the floor plan, you're actually showing that that's going to be electrical pool equipment.

On top of the shelf.

You can't really put that on top of a shelf.

Yeah, why not?

A pool equipment on top of a shelf? Yeah, yeah. Like what kind of equipment?

It has to be.

The floaters?

No. The mechanicals? The pump.

Yeah, but I'm just saying in the perspective where you have is a floating shelf, it's not really showing that's going to have to be a room, a mechanical room.

No, it can't be. The pool equipment for a pool of this size will sit on a shelf this wide. So, I mean, it renders that room. I'm sorry, the returns and the supplies will be obviously coming down through that shelf into the ground to go to the pool.

I know, but it's not going to be a minimalist shelf that's going to float in there. It's going to be a myriad of equipment. Because you have a washer and dryer, so it's actually going to be... What she's saying is it's going to be a wall. It has to be a wall.

No, no, no. There will be equipment, and you'll be able to see it.

Yeah, which...

It has to be a wall. It has to have legs and equipment is on top by the time you're done.

As you may recall in the last iteration, that's why the design included vertical slats to cover and shield the mechanical equipment that would be located in that space. And it was at the request of making it more open that those slats were removed. But very much the intention,

Yeah, he's the biggest proponent of shielding mechanical equipment. I get it. I think we were working at odds with two different goals here. One is where do you put the mechanical equipment so that you can shield it? And the second is how do you make an understory in this context not appear to be three stories tall? I don't think we're quite there yet. First of all, this rendering is not accurate this is not showing the wall of equipment that's going to be sitting up on that on that platform it's showing a transparent window and that's where the equipment will be right so i'm not that's what she's saying is that it would be solid and so what and so the question well it would it would appear instead of a void i don't think we can hear you carly um

So right now, Lindsay, what you're saying is that it appears as a void space. But in reality, when you have that with the mechanical equipment there, then it doesn't appear to be a void. It appears to be enclosed.

So what she's saying is that, you know, listen, it's very simple. You're actually fully enclosed on three walls and just open in one.

No, I don't want that either because then you have a 30-foot floor.

No, no, I understand. That's exactly what I'm trying to say. What I'm saying is that the way this is going to end up being, and we're trying to find a solution for this situation because we are responsible to not setting a precedent that these things are going to end up being three-story houses. By the time you're done with that shelf, which is not a shelf. It's a whole wall of equipment. And then that has to be shielded somehow. So it has to be screened. So you're going to end up with pretty much a solid wall. Call it whatever you want. It's a semi-solid wall. And then you have the other wall. And then you have the bathroom wall. You literally have three walls. And then you have just open on one end. So it's not an understory. It doesn't read as an understory. It reads... it reads as a room with an open end. That's what we're trying to do.

Let's clarify two concepts, because we're talking about two things. The understory, by the way, according to the code, and Scarlett can correct me if I'm wrong, you can have an understory covered or open. in the town of Surfside. So let's take that off the table. Covered?

What do you mean by covered? Like what's the rule? Can you figure out what the, can we?

He's saying he could extend the masonry wall, a breakaway wall all the way down to the ground.

So he could have... How is that an understory?

Because it's not enclosed.

It's how it reads. Well, then you need to bring it up to someone to bring it up to the commission because that's the way it reads. So you shouldn't be afraid. The understory can be covered or uncovered.

So you're saying that it could actually not even read as an understory. It could just be habitable space.

It could be. No, no, not habitable space.

Yeah, you can build it and then do, once you get the skill, but you can build it out and you can do whatever you want out there. It's going to be covered.

You can park a car. You can put a storage.

I know, but what I'm saying, what she's saying, which makes all the sense, I mean, you can literally just cover one end of this thing, shield the mechanical equipment, make that a bedroom. I mean, it's really, what stops you from that being a bedroom?

That would be a code violation.

I'm not saying you're wrong or not. I'm just saying we're struggling with this dilemma.

That would be a code violation because then it becomes a habitable space.

I know, but we can't allow things that could potentially become something else, because this is opening a can of worms. And then the story needs to be, to me, I thought it had to be wide open, open on the side.

That's an argument you have to have with the commission. That's not how it reads right now. It has to be non-habitable, and it can be covered or uncovered.

I'm not going to cover him. I mean, on the side.

Covered. You can have four walls there. You can have a utility. You can have a shop.

Up to a certain percentage, you can do that. 500 feet. Right. Yeah.

Okay. So can we move? That's an argument you have to take up with it.

Well, no, because the compatibility of this design with the neighborhood, I think, is where I'm going. And I want this house to be the example for everybody. which is why I want to get it right, because it matters, because this is going to be, everyone's going to want this house, and I want them to want this house. We've got to figure this out, because you are just as sensitive to the neighbors. You've done everything in this house to make it fit in, sensitive to the north, sensitive to the south, everything. That's your MO, and it shows, and it's beautiful. And the scale and everything about it is beautiful. I just, I want to find a way to make this work as an understory without giving people the carte blanche to just close in these spaces and have a 30-foot wall. You know what I mean? Right. Right.

And I agree with you. He's correct in what he's saying. Is that the way the code reads, then we have a problem.

I know, but I'm asking you to work with us to try to fix that in this design. Yes, we will approach the code issue, but you are an example and a model for this whole town. So I would love to see if we could figure out a way to address that here.

So, okay. So in order for us to be able, we struggle sometimes with some of these homes because when you look at the floor plan, They never show you where the air conditioning unit is going to go. They never show you where the generator is going to go. They never show you where the pump room is going to be.

And you always ask them to show it.

And I always ask them to show it. And I always ask them to push it inside the envelope.

Yes, which you've done. I appreciate that.

Okay, and so that's what this room is about. Maybe we made a mistake in trying to distract your attention with a table in there. But the reality is that shelf is the plus 10. And I see Alberto left us, unfortunately. Alberto can speak to this because he's been doing contracting in this town. And if I say something wrong, please correct me.

But But you have the washer and dryer sitting on a shelf off the ground?

You have to have it off the ground, yeah, because it's an electrical appliance.

The plug has to be... How are you going to use that? How are you going to use that washer-dryer at 10 feet?

You have a washer here and a dryer here.

It's only 3 feet.

No, no, no. You're thinking 10 feet, but it's only 3 feet.

Oh, I see.

It's the height of the table.

Okay.

This is 28 inches, it's a little bit higher.

James, what I was... Give me one second. I need to tell you what I suggest. If you're correct, we don't want to argue. We're correct.

No, no. I just want us to have a conversation about this because it's important.

Yeah, it is.

So it's only three feet above the ground. It's lower than that thing, right? It's this high. This is too high. But anyway, the whole point is the code does not allow you to have anything electrical below 10, which is at three feet. So what's going to go on top of that shelf is the pool equipment, any air handler, any generator.

I know exactly.

Anything electrical has to be there.

I have an idea for you too.

Let me just finish.

Wait, let him finish.

Yeah, go ahead. No, we get it. We understand the concept.

So I had the slats to be able to screen it, but I said, maybe we don't need the slats because the fence is seven and a half feet away and it's six feet tall. But my question, my question to you, the neighbor will never see the equipment regardless. So it's better to have it open. But my question, I opened it and better for ventilation. Yeah, it's better for everything is in any way. It's an ugly site, but only the the owner of the house is going to have.

But why can you why can you keep that? Why can you move the equipment? And try to keep that side of it open. It doesn't make any sense.

They get a terrace, a dining terrace.

Why would you want all that stuff next to the place you're going to sit and have dinner?

And go to the pool.

It doesn't make any sense that that's the place that it's going.

It's the best place for it. Why? It's in the understory. And if people feel like they need to screen themselves from it, then they'll figure out a way to screen themselves from it.

I know about that washer. In the stair that you have coming in from the garage in there, can you just put the washer and the dryer in that stairwell down there and then move the electrical somewhere else and the electrical closet and the pool equipment somewhere else and just free up that corner, that side?

No, well, I have a corner because I have a column that has to come down.

No, no, I'm not saying to remove the column. I'm just saying... That whole line of equipment there.

If you want me to take the beam off and the shelf off, I'll be happy to do it. We're not gaining anything, but that's okay. I don't mind. We just put the regular stand, as they call it in the industry, and put the air conditioning on top.

I agree.

I have a bunch of stands.

I think where that equipment is is going to be a disservice to your use of the home, but that's up to you. I completely agree with that. I think at a minimum, I would remove the beam and I would do some stainless steel or vines and just make that a green screen at a minimum. I wish we could figure out a way to keep that open and have it be a real dining area for you.

It's also like when you look at the perspective, if that corner of the house is rendered open, It's so much more beautiful. I mean, it's not even... If you can do it, there's nothing we can say. If you can do it, you can do it. But I'm just telling you, when I look at the perspective, that two stories flying over the understory... With one column. With one column, it's really what we're after. It's like your house. It's like the thing that makes these understories be beautiful. But then you go back and pull that wall of equipment next to where you're going to sit and eat. It's just... You're a brilliant architect. You can find another place to put all this equipment. And it's going to be so much better, so much nicer not to sit next to a washing machine and my pool equipment makes so much noise. It doesn't make any sense that you want to be sitting next to pool equipment. It's actually going to be infinitely better.

And you know something? It's important to ask about the pool equipment because a lot of these houses.

It's you who started this mess, so I don't know.

That's why you're an example. That's why. Because we want people to show where it is for this exact reason.

But honestly, James, the floating, that corner of that house, that understory open with a column floating with a, it's exactly what it should be.

Okay.

I'm game. Don't you think? I mean, it's so much a better house. That's what I think.

So I think what we've heard here is a green screen type of element along this section will help us. Or nothing. Why does it need a green screen?

I think first preference would be to find a creative way to leave it open.

You don't need anything, Harley. Just open.

LEAVE THE MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT?

NO, PUT THE MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT SOMEWHERE ELSE, HAVE THAT BE A TRUE UNDERSTORY WITH TWO OPENINGS, TWO SIDES OPEN.

TWO SIDES WIDE OPEN AND THEN I DON'T KNOW, PUT IT IN MY HOUSE, THE PULL EQUIPMENT, I DON'T KNOW.

THAT'S OUR PREFERENCE. Because we've been working at this for so long, I think I would be willing to compromise with you on a really beautiful green screen, get rid of the beam, whatever. But I think if anyone can do this, you can. And I would love for you to figure it out because then everyone's going to just hire you to repeat this again and again.

It has to be a model. It has to be a model. It's 99% there. I think that that is going to make the kick. Plus you're not going to be sitting having dinner or lunch next to electrical panels, pool equipment, and a washing machine going. I mean, come on. So are we ready?

Well, I mean, that's my opinion. I think it's your opinion. It's our opinion. I mean, you know, I would love to approve it with a condition that that, you know, is addressed in one of the two ways we've identified, preferably the first. But, you know.

Take the beam off and put a screening element.

Option one, open that space, move the equipment. That's the preferred option if you can figure out how to do it. Option two, remove the beam and screen it, make it feel green at least.

What are you talking the beam? You're calling the shelf?

The shelf.

The shelf has got to go.

Yeah.

You don't want that shelf there.

The shelf and, you know, and the connection, the vertical connection to the under, that's not support weight bearing.

Just free up that whole corner and that's it. Just free it up.

I believe that there is a structural column in that corner.

On the left side or on the right side? On the right side. No, I'm talking about the left. So you see how the shelf.

Element.

Yeah. I can't quite tell what that is, but...

It's just a decorative element.

Yeah. So I would keep the ceiling of the understory as the ceiling of that room and get rid of the shelf and the connection to it. And then if you can relocate the equipment, preferable.

I think one more thing I'm going to say. And the only place where the house really feels like an understory, because one of them is a garage. So you don't feel an understory in the garage. And you're gating the garage. So it feels just like any other garage. the only moment on the entire house that you feel like you have an understory is that corner. So that corner has to be has to read like it's an understory. Because that's what's going to set the precedent of what we can do, the plus to have understories, that we can have certain types of usable space. So that's why it needs to be a complete corner that's wide open to the garden so the green goes underneath the house. And that's an example. That's what understory is. Because right now what is happening is the way you're rendering it, YOU'RE GOING AGAINST WHAT ANOTHER STORY IS BECAUSE AT THE END IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE GOING TO PUT GLASS ACROSS THERE AND MAKE IT A ROOM. SO BY FREEING THE SIDE, FIRST OF ALL THE YARD IS GOING TO FEEL BETTER BECAUSE I THINK YOUR YARD IS GOING TO GO IN THERE WITHOUT ANY STOPPING IT AND THE WHOLE BACKYARD IS GOING TO BE INFINITELY NICER. I'M DONE.

SO I THINK WE COULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE WITH STAFF CONDITIONS AND THE CONDITION the understory, would that be?

Yes, absolutely.

Is that amenable to regarding removing the shelf in the understory along the northern facade?

Yes, the shelf and the vertical connection to the roof.

With the option that if in the event there's no other place to put the mechanical equipment.

If you cannot find a creative solution to really make that a true understory, I think we will compromise on a green screen in that open north elevation.

I think you really need to open that corner. It's my vote on it.

We'll definitely study it.

This has to come back. Exactly.

Exactly. Right. So just to clarify, because we were, Lindsay, you were talking about the concrete column on the left side of the tree. So that apparently. Towards the street.

Can you go to the perspective, please? This one, yes. No, Carly, can you, we can look at that. Just look at the perspective that shows the pool. And that corner, that understory.

The dining room. Well, I think she's trying to point out a column that you were concerned about. That column, if it's structural, we may need to maintain it. Understood.

Okay. We don't want you to have the building fall off. Right.

No. Understood.

We just want it open as much as we can.

Understood. Yeah. As long as the building doesn't fall, I think we're in good shape. Right.

No, he wants to see where the dining table is in that room. Yeah.

I think that was it. You just passed it.

No.

Why do we have Jeff Rose's house that's in there somewhere?

Because it's an example of what massing looks like in the town and has been approved.

You just passed it.

This is not it. No. She knows what she's looking for.

There, there, there, there, there. What part of that corner?

This piece is structural.

Yes, you leave that column. Take the rest out.

Just clarifying. Or spend more money and just put more steel in there.

I don't know.

The column that we were discussing was this one that's back here behind this palm.

Yeah, that's OK. That's OK. Just leave that column and just leave everything open. OK? It's just this piece.

Okay, so you guys were clear? Yes. Okay, so I will entertain a motion to approve with staff conditions and the condition regarding the north elevation understory. Just say so moved. Huh? Just say so moved.

So moved.

Okay, can I have a second?

Second.

Madam Clerk, please call the roll. Yes, Chair.

Board Member Aparicio?

Si.

Board Member Chavez?

Yes.

Board Member Solarez?

Yes.

Chair LaCour? Yes. Motion carries.

Okay. Yay! Thanks, guys.

Thank you, guys.

All right. We can't wait to see what you have.

I like how you bring your lawyer in. You guys are part of the solution. Thank you. It's our pleasure.

All right. I think we're moving on to the ordinance.

My pleasure.

Madam Attorney, please read the ordinance into the record. Okay. Yes, Chair.

Item 6A, an ordinance of the Town Commission of the Town of Sarasota, Florida, amending ordinance number 2024-1785, which amends sections 90-45 setbacks and 90-49 lot standards in the H-30A and H-30B districts, providing for survivability, providing for inclusion in the code, providing for conflicts, and providing for an effective date. Item 6A.

Thank you. Who's presenting this item?